#and bruce is canonically on the spectrum so suck on that

[rosefulmadness]

actually, you know what? here's a list

batman is jewish

nightwing is romani

red hood is latino/mixed

red robin is japanese(?) and jewish

robin is arab(palestinean)-chinese with a bit of white from dad's side

blackbat is chinese

selina kyle is italian-mixed with AA

tamaranians are black coded just like kryptonians are jewish coded

beast boy is arab

raven is indian

arthemis is vietnamese-american

arsenal/red arrow is navajo

hawkman and hawkwoman are egyptian

the LOA is generally arab

etc

hello batboy enjoyers, please put some melanin in my boys when you draw them, they aren't corpses (except for tim) thankyouverymuch

[incorrectbatfam]

Types of obnoxious batfam stans

Written by an obnoxious batfam stan

Not really a rant but something I've noticed over the years interacting in different spaces and I've decided to make your problem now.

Please note that I'm not saying there's any "right" way to be a fan because we all suck by virtue of being comic nerds, but there are certain kinds of batfamily fans that stick out to be in particular.

Anywho, here are 12 kinds of annoying batfam stans that you've probably run into and you better get a laugh out of it *points gun to your head*.

1) The Newbies Who Never Heard of Google

There's no shame in being new to something. It's a phase that we're all guaranteed to go through, whether we're 11 or 101. However, in this day and age, so many things can be easily googled that you don't need to shout every question you have into the VVorld VVide VVoid. If you need comic recs or a reading list, google it. If you wanna know a character's origin story, google it. If you need to know the color of Batman's underpants in a particular issue in 1965... well that's probably too specific for Google but Reddit will definitely have an answer.

2) The Middle School Authors

Before the 13-year-olds get up in my notes, I'm not saying everyone that age writes like this. Middle school is a state of mind. These fanfic writers usually stand out in a few ways.

They're oftentimes first-person POV or reader-insert. Give Y/N a break, she's tired.

The grammar is stunningly atrocious. I get if you're inexperienced or if you're writing in a second language, but we are in the prime era of autocorrect. If you need help, it's right there. Also, fuck c*nsoring b*d w*rds and fuck "unalive."

The characters do things that are out-of-character because the author is projecting their own personality. Bruce Wayne is a lot of things but he does not listen to the fucking Mountain Goats.

There's a lack of experience or research when it comes to certain topics. That's not how physics works. He can't walk that injury off. And that's definitely NOT how you do the horizontal hokey pokey.

3) The Neckbeards

Unfortunately, these basement-dwelling mouth-breathers tainted the image of what a comic fan is, though that's been changing recently. Still, we've all seen them. They gatekeep via pop quizzes, 'cause obviously you're not a real fan unless you know what page 10 of Batman #138 smells like. They give unsolicited commentary on people's cosplays, nitpicking the guys and being gross toward women. And heaven forbid the comics add a little diversity.

4) The Moviegoers

Nothing inherently wrong with getting into the fandom via the movies, nor is there anything wrong with sticking to that. I just feel like we're two different species of Galapagos finches, you know?

5) The Christopher Nolans

Separate from casual fans of the Nolan movies. I'm calling them the Christopher Nolans because these people have a tendency to reach for the grimdarkest thing possible. It's like they cannot fathom Batman having any other emotions besides punching and gargoyle brooding.

6) The Canon Purists

Wanna share a fun headcanon? NO, because Stephanie Brown never used cherry lip balm in the comics so therefore that must be the absolute truth. These people are a stickler for comic accuracy to the point where it's like... why bother interacting with the fandom in the first place? The worst part is when they're adamant on following a single continuity and refuse to consider anything else. This is comics we're talking about. Everything either has been or will be canon at some point.

7) The Fanon Worshippers

On the opposite end of the spectrum, we have the people who base their entire perception of the characters on something either they pulled out of their ass or that their mutual with 16 followers came up with, despite evidence directly contradicting it. I love WFA, but I feel like that's partially responsible for further perpetuating certain popular myths. Also, these fans tend to focus solely on the batfam/their ships. It's one thing to have some people in the foreground vs. background, but put some respect to Bart Allen's name you goddamn cheesecakes.

8) The Golden Age Dads

These guys aren't really obnoxious. I actually find it kind of cute how they think Jason Todd is still dead.

9) The Chronically Online

I have a rule of thumb when it comes to discourse: if it's not something I'd hear about at a bar, it's not worth my mental energy. Some people haven't gotten the memo, though.

These are either the well-intentioned but misinformed teenagers or grown-ass adults beefing with children because they don't have a life. They have takes that are oversimplified, rage-inducing, TikTok algorithm attention-grabbers that no one cares about in real life.

Don't get me wrong, we've got a bunch of issues in comics and fandom that are worth discussing. However, there comes a point where you're splitting hairs and need to go the fuck outside. I'm not gonna link the post 'cause I don't wanna call them and their 7 notes out, but the other week I saw someone saying Stephcass was a racist ship because something something colonialism parallel. You gotta be Elastigirl to have that kind of reach.

10) The Corporate Simps

I love comics. I appreciate the writers and artists. However, you will find my carcass in a ditch before you catch me licking the boots of DC/Warner Bros. Basically, these fans, fewer as they are, can't seem to fathom that their favorite franchise can (and does) put out some steaming motherfucking garbage.

11) The Hot Cosplayers

Not actually annoyed, I'm just a little jealous. Stop being hotter than me, please and thank you.

12) The One With A Punchline For Everything

Wait–

[bigskydreaming]

I have decided to make a correction to one of my most oft-repeated stances.

Its not actually ‘both of them being equally at fault’ that bugs me so much about Bruce and Dick’s periods of estrangement.

Its the idea that both of them are being stubborn and need to swallow their pride and get over themselves.

THAT, specifically, is the bigger issue IMO.

Because uh....no. That is 100% what you can’t put them on equal footing in regards to, because when Bruce is the one who instigated conflicts with HIS choices that directly impact DICK’S life....Bruce stretching out the conflict by being stubbon takes the form of Bruce refuses to apologize, consider that he was wrong, or walk back anything he said or did.

Dick stretching out the conflict by being stubborn, on the other hand, is an ENTIRELY different issue, because his only ‘stubborn’ position is refusing to passively accept Bruce’s mandates. He has nothing to apologize for, nothing he CAN even apologize for, other than just.....not ‘settling’ for what Bruce wants him to do in any given situation, not simply rolling over without complaint.

These examples of ‘stubbornness’ exist at ENTIRELY opposite points of the spectrum, and so to pair them as being equivalent is not only grossly disingenuous, its just....gross?

Because essentially, with this people are just saying that Bruce needs to not be so proud, sure, but also that Dick needs to have no pride whatsoever, because that’s what you get when you continually insist that the guy who continually gets railroaded by his father’s control freak issues has some kind of obligation to just say oh I’m okay with that really, and its not that big of a deal, even when it IS very much a big deal.....just for the sake of keeping the peace.

You are effectively prioritizing Bruce’s pride as MORE important and worthy, even while nominally saying oh both are too proud and stubborn, because by virtue of the fact that Bruce’s pride is the cause of so many of their periods of estrangement and Dick’s pride is actually the victim in all these instances given how often he ends up caving and coming back to Bruce to be the one to extend the first olive branch DESPITE Bruce being the instigator.....

This one hundred percent keeps Bruce’s emotional needs prioritized as more important and deserving than his son’s.

And that really sucks. Not even just on its own merits, but also as a precedent, because the fact that it so often happens this way ANYWAY in canon, with this statement STILL getting uttered all the time, about how they’re both too stubborn and prideful.....effectively this just keeps pushing the needle further and further in the direction of Dick being expected to cave sooner and even more easily in each conflict, whether canon or fanfic-originating....because people point to the fact that he DOES cave and from that they kinda build an expectation of inevitability, that its always going to be Dick who caves anyway, so the fact that he doesn’t do it right away, and thus allows conflict to last between he and Bruce at ALL, like.....THAT gets reconfigured to make him ‘to blame’ for any lasting state of conflict between he and Bruce because like, Dick should know better than to expect his dad to apologize or take something back, and thus he should just get over it right away, y’know?

And meanwhile, the expectation builds in the other direction with Bruce, with precedent for how their conflicts so often end (thanks to Dick being the one to cave) heightening the idea that Bruce is just never going to be the one to apologize, work for forgiveness, or take something back or change his mind, so there’s no point in expecting him to do any of the above, or even like....posit what that would even look like.

Because see now its just ‘in character’ for Bruce to never be the one to apologize or sacrifice his pride while its equally in character for Dick to be the one who both views himself and is viewed by others as being the one who is always SUPPOSED to cave, roll over, just let things happen and forgive Bruce anyway, all so that peace can be restored and maintained between the two of them.

And THAT’S how you end up with this everpresent idea that they’re both just EQUALLY stubborn and prideful, with BOTH their pride being responsible for their conflicts.....

Even when their pride is in direct opposition to each other and one’s pride is in defense of his own self-dignity while the other’s pride is at the EXPENSE of the other’s self-dignity.

And that’s like. Really fucked up IMO.

[mattzerella-sticks]

hi! i’m new to reading dc, because i hear new 52 and rebirth kinda suck, do you have any batfamily recommendations?

Welcome aboard! I’m gonna say something controversial - new 52 and Rebirth aren’t totally bad. Don’t get me wrong, before Flashpoint Batfamily was GOING PLACES. But I think they started strong with Batman in new 52 (like the Court of Owls wer fantastic and Julia Pennyworth is amazing) but then the aftermath of this Batman v. Joker fight during Scott Snyder’s run kinda fizzled the Batman run. And don’t get me STARTED on the bullshit Tom King has done. Not even James Tynion can save the Rebirth Batman title (but that’s because the powers that be probably had a vision that’s most likely been canned given how a lot of the brass was let go). I digress...

For New 52, I highly recommend: Batman (up until the Batman mantle gets passed, which is 50 or so issues in), Grayson (I enjoyed the spy atmosphere, plus the introduction of Helena Bertinelli, Tiger, and Midnighter - officially), Red Hood and the Outlaws (although the early issues and how they treated Kori are iffy), DEFINITELY Batgirl (especially the Gail Simone run and then the Babs Starr run, Batgirl of Burnside ftw) and - I’m including her into the Batfamily - the Harley Quinn series, because that’s good no matter WHAT. Things I’ve heard good things about but haven’t fully in-depth read were We Are Robin and Catwoman, although the former ends kind of unsatisfyingly. And, again, not Batfamily but adjacent - Gotham Academy. I was SO MAD when it ended because it was one of the best comics DC was producing. Oh and there was a Robin series where he has a giant bat!!! That was really good, too. 

Rebirth they really fucked themselves over for the Batfam. Don’t even look at Batman, the first few issues are okay but then it gets muddled in this Bane plot and ‘War of Jokes and Riddles’ which was the WORST Batman storyline ever. Went on too long imo because you kind of forget this is all Bruce telling Selena about his ‘worst sin’ even though she’d be DTF no matter what. Plus there’s so much emphasis on Kite Man (i think even an issue is dedicated to his POV which makes no sense given the context the story’s being told but again Tom King SUCKS). It’ll make you feel like you read a comic book of How I Met Your Mother. Only Batman issues I recommend are the ones that are Flash crossovers because those are my favs for obvi reasons. What you want to do is get into first year of Rebirth Detective Comics because 1) Cassandra Cain 2) Stephanie Brown 3) Kate Kane 4) Clayface!?!?! 5) Tim Drake 6) Dr. Oktober; Honestly it was such a good ensemble piece (James Tynion is an awesome writer, he’s not a miracle worker unfortunately). That was a good run, although it does change plot at a certain point - which was sad - but it still feels like a Batman book even after the ensemble leaves, better than the actual Batman title. So sticking with that over the Batman main series is good. I think Rebirth Outsiders was trying to capture that magic except the writing isn’t that good plus there were a bunch of creative differences that delayed the first issue and I lost any excitement for it (which was sad because I love all the characters in it - Duke, Black Lightning, and Katana). Batgirl, again, although you’ll come to a point where it stops being amazing - and that is when she ditches her Babs Starr costume for something AWFUL. #BringBackBurnsideBatgirl Once you see the costume change either lower your expectations or move on because it doesn’t recover. I’ve heard good things about the Catwoman series but I haven’t read it. What I have read is Harley Quinn (again unofficial Bat family member) and that has been consistently amazing (even if the last few issues gave Harley questional/straightwashed tastes). DEFINITE reads though that shouldn’t be too long (because DC likes ending good things) are Batwoman and Batgirl & the Birds of Prey. The Batwoman comic was too good for this world, we need more Kate Kane in our lives. And the Birds of Prey series felt like the movie a bit. They definitely seemed like friends (unlike the new 52 version, which was AWFUL) and there’s one story where the men of Gotham get sick that is so good I’m waiting on DC to turn it into an animated feature. Those titles are both like twenty or so issues. There’s a Midnigther and Apollo miniseries that was so great (also unofficial member). Red Hood and the Outlaws I liked, but after Roy leaves it lost the magic. Rebirth Nightwing was good at first, but Tom King ruined it even though he doesn’t write for that title. Best storyline was when he gets involved with this group for reformed criminals while in Bludhaven. The most recent storyline wasn’t bad, in a sense. The characters brought on were interesting. It was just apbrupt and clearly not what the actual writer had in mind, but they had to write around Tom King. And overall the character of Nightwing suffered. Young Justice doesn’t feel too canonical (and Drake is a stupid name); Teen Titans is okay but Damian is an edgelord. 

Moving on from that, outside of Rebirth and New 52, some other titles that I’ve enjoyed featuring the Batfamily were: Cassandra Cain’s Batgirl, Stephanie Brown’s Batgirl, Gotham City Sirens, Batman, Inc., Batman & Robin (with Dick as Batman, Damian as Robin), the Outsiders (the spin-off from Titans, probably in the mid-2000s with Dick Grayson leading)...

There was an interesting Detective Comics arc I read about the GCPD starring Renee Montoya that dealt with her ‘coming out’ (in the loosest of terms given how it happened).

A Batman/Superman arc I love revisiting is when they re-introduce Supergirl (and speaking of Batman/Superman, find the issue(s) where Superman gets affected by silver kryptonite and turns into a stoner because THAT was funny)

I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention No Man’s Land or Batman Year One because those two kind of establish Gotham and the Batman character... You could read the Killing Joke but you can easily sum the entire story up with one panel (probably one of the first images that pops up when you google The Killing Joke). A better, edgier Batman story - imo - is when he gets addicted to Venom. Or the Death of Jason Todd - which reminds me Under the Red Hood is a good story! (I didn’t read the comic lol but I did watch the movie - Jensen Ackles ftw).

If you’re looking for kooky, anything from the 40s up to before Crisis on Infinite Earths where ANYTHING went. From World’s Finest to the Batman title, they got to some pretty insane shit. Very campy. Although the nineties-early 2000′s were campy in their own way, like so on the other end of the spectrum from ‘camp’ that it became camp again. There’s two different Batman storylines that were VERY anti-drugs (Shadow of the Bat was the running title, I think; one story against weed and the other against LSD) that were so ridiculous and trying to push kids away from doing drugs that you couldn’t help but realize how ridiculous and over-the-top this was.

Finally there are Elseworlds titles. Everyone always raves for Batman: Gotham by Gaslight but I think two very interesting takes on a Batman of a different world are: Batman - Holy Terror, and Batman: Nosferatu. There’s also an Elseworlds with Barbara as Batwoman and a female Joker (Batgirl: Thrillkiller I believe) and one that has Catwoman as the hero of Gotham and Bruce Wayne as a sadistic killer.

Hope at least one of these suggestions helps 😀

[mogoona3000]

Irondad & Spiderson Extravaganza—Fanfic Author Appreciation Day Edition

In honor of Fanfic Author Appreciation Day, here’s the fic list that haunts me at night, that list I cannot stop reading even if I wanted to. There are a few more but this was going to run too long, so I’ll just add my AO3 bookmark link because wow. Everything I bookmarked deserves the look over. Promise.

Lights to Guide You Home - @jolinarjackson

This is that story I cannot stop reading, and I love it more each time I do. It introduces other characters from the MCU, and honestly, Jules can give the Russos a run for their money with the way storylines are connected here. It’s elegant and perfectly paced. It’s one of my favorites. I recommend the entire series wholeheartedly. 

What We Are - @yellowdistress

A sucker for biodad Mr. Stark = me. 

Guys. The very first chapter--the very first line in this story holds right at your PULSE. And it doesn’t let go, not until it wants to. Which is never. Precious Peter Parker is an UNDERSTATEMENT. You want some AU Stark boys going through their lives as best as they can? With your canon “chaotic & heart of gold” Tony, and “walking disaster & too pure for this world” Peter? This. This is it. The whole series. The whole thing. 

The Third Option - Uncertainty_Principle

My very first fic in this fandom and it was, indeed, the best start I could’ve possibly gotten. This AU is outstanding. Man, what a job well done. I have so much to say that I can’t even begin to express it all. This fic blew the door wide open for me. It’s..yeah. This is masterful. 

Hydra’s Not a Home - @tempestaurora

Ugh. There is something about biodad Tony that just fills my lungs with air. This entire series was so complete, so well done; it was fun, and witty, and hurtful and feelings were everywhere. Also, also..Pepper is everything and more in here, and I love when she’s heavily involved. And it’s done well. It makes me FLY. Needless to say..yes. So much yes. The entire series. The whole entire thing. A must read. A muuuuuust. Yes. 

Webcams and Webshooters - @losingmymindtonight

I’m trying very hard to keep my composure because THIS SERIES RIGHT HERE, MAN. WOW. These two chaotic messes are being ridiculous on Peter’s YouTube channel and it’s the funniest, the most enjoyable thing. Nothing short of the most loving and endearing clips until it punches you in the mouth, leaves you bleeding, and then patches you up. All at the same time. If you listen closely, you can still hear my love and tears over this. Goodness, this was outstanding. 

It’ll Be Over (And I’ll Still Be asking When) - @jbsforever

My heart. The jokes. The tears. The Bruce. The way this story is handled, the way Peter Parker..I just..And there is that one scene that I just go back to all the time, because y’all just write the coolest things, and my nerd tears are LOUD. Someone read this and geek out with me. Message me right after you’re done. RIGHT AFTER.

Reviving Peter Parker - @yellowdistress

Here’s what happened: I read this and it took me the h out. 

You know, some times we wish for things that we know cannot take place. And when they actually do happen, because in the world of Tony Stark, aliens and gods walk amongst him so nothing can really surprise him anymore, it’s not all it’s cracked up to be. Denni has a way to tell a story with such very human-like emotion, and responses from our boys, that it’s almost too much. The tears were present right with their sibling pain. Read it all. All the parts. You won’t regret it. 

The Closest Thing He’s Got - @ grilledcheesing 

The..things I underwent with this wonderful work..All the emotions in the spectrum. Just so many things to feel. 

You love Steve? Read this. You hate Steve? Read this.

You love Spidey? Read. This. You hate Spidey? Read this, but good luck.

You love Irondad & Spiderson trope? Read this!!!!!

You love Tony Stark? Read this right now. Because he’s dong his best and everyone needs to back off. 

You hate Tony? Read this and eat your heart out.

Read this. Read this read this read this

5 Times Peter Parker Saved Tony Stark - @madasthesea 

There is a special place in my heart for all things “Peter Parker saving himself + others” and Tony just impressed with him each time. Because yeah, Tony. You found a good one. And he loves you just as much as you love him. “Ugh. So proud of that Spiderbaby” was what I murmured throughout this whole thing, with the occasional scream :)

5 Times Peter Made Tony Laugh Out Loud - @ grilledcheesing

There were tears rolling down my face when I read this. It was the funniest thing. I love Peter, that walking disaster. I’m just glad Tony is in his corner. Please read this and have yourself a good laugh. It is the best. But beware that all jokes must stop at some point.

5 Times Everyone Thought Spider-Man was Iron Man’s Favorite Superhero -  @madasthesea

Mr. Parker deserves all the love, and all the support. All the encouragement. All the good and “doing his best to be good” Irondad. This is the fic where my boys are loving on each other and everything is right with the world. 

Here’s to All the New Beginnings - @groo-ock

There is no retired Irondad like this author’s retired irondad. Gosh, Tony is a MESS, but what a good one he is. This gives you origin pieces here and there, and Tony being comically distressed over Peter, and loving him so much, it’s almost unhealthy. Also, love me some Pepper Stark nei Potts. I laughed so hard and then cried just as much. Peter’s growing and Tony can’t handle much of it. 

Honey Bee Theorem - @ closingdoors 

There are so many ways Tony’s life could’ve been lived, so many things that could’ve happened, so many things that could’ve been said. Pepper explores all of them, and it leaves you breathless no matter which way she presents them. This was quick and painful and gorgeous. We stan Queen Stark nei Potts. And we might not be okay, but yeah, he can definitely rest now. 

Soul of Wit - @yellowdistress

Sometimes I’m in bed at night thinking, “hmm, Denni is out for blood.” And by that, I mean she’s out for mine specifically. This ridiculous one-shot shot me right in my chest. Leave it to Denni to literally show you the world as it is, and make you feel this..ache in your chest, and have you THANK HER FOR THE PAIN SHE’S CAUSED. I love her work so much, that talented bean. Read this. Till the very, very end. It’s gonna suck, but I promise you’ll love it. 

Holdfasts - @groo-ock

“I know this is just my under-treated anxiety talking,” Tony says, “but if I leave this chair or close my eyes even for a second, the kid is going to die. So I have to stay here.”

Tony and Peter are a walking disaster. It’s so bad, oh my gosh. It’s so bad. The laughing while simultaneously panicking as I read this was unbelievable. The things these authors make me FEEL. Y’all don’t understand how good this is. Like, lol, seriously. This is just straight up phenomenal. Phenomenal.

Four Paragraphs - @iron--spider

WOW. Okay. The softest thing in all the land is what takes place when this majestic author creates a story. I mean, seriously, these were the best four paragraphs I’ve ever laughed and cried through. The love, the pride, the longing, the gentleness. “Everything is alright. We’re okay” is always the theme with iron--spider and honestly? I STAN SO HARD, IT MIGHT BE ILLEGAL. Loved this so much. So much. 

Call This Fixer-Upper Home - @3wworms 

Amy has a way with words. It’s surreal how a simple one shot about a couch can have someone aching, eyes prickling, and long after the tab for the story is closed, the thoughts of it all produce salty tears. Maybe it was the note she left before the story started. But..nah, Amy has a WAY with WORDS. It’s unmatched. It’s surreal. 

I Am One of You Forever - @groo-ock 

Say goodbye to your canon broken heart because this is coming for it full force. This was entirely too beautiful; it was easy. Simple. Genuine. It was SO moving. The closing chapter to the brand new book. Like a dream. Mundane, loving, friendship, love. You name all good things, this one-shot has got it. The tears will be inevitable. On multiple occasions. 

Star Child - @iron--spider

This is so organic and so soft. It’s wholesome, so much so it made me cry. These two really deserved more time. And I will never thank this author enough for giving it to them. Always. My Pete is undoubtedly a star child. Don’t fight Tony on it. 

The First Birthday After - @iron--spider

Goodness. No words. Just tears. 

Happy Birthday, tincan. 

We miss you. 

Flight of the Navigator - @3wworms

Everything, and I mean everything Amy posts is truly organic, mature and just nothing short of phenomenal. This is my favorite from her. The level of detail and characterization displayed here leaves me speechless. Always. I literally run from her fics. She pushes things out of me with the most mundane, simple concepts. A conversation, a thought, a LINE. Goodness, did I cry when I read this. It’s elegant and intelligent, insightful. It’s just so great. There is a tone to everything she creates, and it’s always so heartfelt. Everything. Everything everything is truly a work of art. 

Blankets and Brain Melting Fevers - @hailing-stars

I love some ridiculous, overprotective, comical Tony Stark. And I love even more the way Peter’s heart always has a thing for showing something new to this man. Something as simple as spaghetti-o's, and to make me CRY real tears. This was so funny and truly wonderful. Uncalled tears! But wonderful nonetheless. 

On My First Son - pansley

I almost didn’t include this. There are some things some would say are better left..unread. But what a disservice would that have been to you, to us, to the author. 

I cried throughout the entire time I was reading this. Literally. The moment you meet Peter, you already lost. 

This is absolutely incredible. What a piece. 

This one is the definition of a tear jerker. Period. It will wake up things inside of you that you’d never even know you’d felt for these characters we grew with. 

I cannot emphasize this enough: I was dangerously dehydrated. 

Heavens, what a story. I was breathless. 

Read this, but sincerely do so with extreme caution. 

Hold on to everything, because this one-shot is coming like a tsunami. No ifs ands or buts.

[gracieminabox]

Your last Chris/phil sucked. actually All your Chris/Phil sucks. Why are you even in this fandom writing about characters nobody cares about? go back to writing for washed-up youtube has beens and stop trying to be an """edgy""" straight girl by making characters gay. also bruce greenwood will never love you so stop it.

All right, Nonie, let’s fuckin’ dance.

We’re gonna go point by point.

Your last Chris/phil sucked.

And you’re telling me this why, exactly? You’re hoping to accomplish what? Am I supposed to give a fuck?

actually All your Chris/Phil sucks. 

Which you’d only know if you’d read it, so…thanks for boosting my read count, person who hates what I write but apparently has read all of it!

Why are you even in this fandom

Because I want to be and no laws prohibit me from doing so.

writing about characters nobody cares about?

I’m sorry; you were saying?

go back to writing for washed-up youtube has beens

Not only have you read all my Chris and Phil, but you’ve been following my fanfic writing career since at least 2015? Interesting.

stop trying to be an “”“edgy”“” straight girl by making characters gay.

D’YA HEAR THAT, GUYS? I’M AN EDGY STRAIGHT GIRL.

I could write you a treatise on the history of non-heterosexuality in fanfiction and its importance to people with minimized sexualities, including those on the asexual spectrum - hi - but I get the feeling it’d go riiiiiiight over your head.

Although, while we’re on the fucking subject - I didn’t “make” anybody gay. My interpretations of certain characters are bi, and there’s nothing canon that says otherwise, which means I’m the fucking boss in my story and I say so. The only gay person in any of my Chris/Phil stories is an original character.

also bruce greenwood will never love you so stop it.

…okay, I’m not gonna lie; I completely laughed my ass off at this.

Yes, because that’s why I wrote a 98,000 word novel. So an actor I’ve never met, who is twice my age, who has been happily married since before I was born, will love me for writing about one role he’s had in a forty-year career. You fucking caught me.

Jesus Christ, I’m still laughing.

Nonie, because I’m such a nice person, I looked this link up for you. It’s called “150+ Hobby Ideas Broken Down by Interest and Personality.” Because clearly, dear, if you’re bored enough to be not only reading fanfic that you hate, but writing anon hate to authors of fanfic you hate, you obviously have far too much time on your hands.

In the meantime?

[bigskydreaming]

How do you counter a Bruce hater? Not the 'never read comics so Bruce Wayne is a useless rich guy who should redistribute his wealth' hater, an actual hater who'd root for some villains like Ivy or Harley, want him gone so the Robins & Selina don't have to listen to him or care about him, thinks he should be obsolete because he's Idk.. old and has too many comics maybe? Genuine hater who somehow really loves his kids but not him. Doesn't hate the older version tho, acknowledges some parts..

I think it just comes down to why you want to counter them, tbh? Don’t get me wrong, I TOTALLY get being defensive of a fave, and respect how these fictional characters still nevertheless mean a great deal to us for various reasons.....but we hate various characters for a ton of different reasons as well. Bruce is....an especially complicated subject, because he’s such a CHARGED subject. He’s one of the oldest comic book characters out there, and he’s EXTREMELY polarizing....because people see radically different things when they look at him. Both canon writers and the fans. 

And thus we so often get these different takes on him that are literally AT ODDS with each other....the loving, caring father who is ideal for his kids because he wants to be for them what he never really had for himself vs the absent, neglectful father due to being a brooding, emotionally stunted lone wolf who believes he’s no good for anyone else and is best on his own.

And so the thing is, as much as it sucks, Bruce is one of those figures in comics where because BOTH takes (and everything else in between them) are real, just at different times, and are at such extreme opposite ends of the spectrum......there are reasons for loving his character that are absolutely valid....but there are reasons for hating his character that are absolutely valid as well. It kinda just depends on where your point of entry into the characters and their narratives are, and what your area of focus is.

For instance, its not really that weird that there are people who genuinely hate his character but somehow really love his kids....because I mean, using myself as an example....Dick has always been my character of focus, the one I personally relate to the most and invest in the most, and well, there have been a lot of times when Bruce has been written being extremely shitty to him. And that’s specifically WHAT I hold against Bruce’s character a lot of the time, and its not a contradiction to like Bruce’s kids and not like him.....the way DC has so massively fucked him up in regards to his kids a lot of the times IS the reason people who like his kids don’t like him. And even though its totally the writing that’s to blame, there sometimes comes a point when the problems are so everpresent in the writing of a character that its just too hard for a fan to separate the writing from the character, and it gets all tangled up together and thus you end up with someone hating Bruce, even though its really only certain ways he’s written that originated that.

So I mean, for myself, I don’t hate Bruce, but I DEFINITELY hate the way he’s written a lot of the time....I’m just very much used to centering my writer brain even when I’m reading, and thus its...easier? For me to keep an awareness of when I have a problem with a character inherently vs when I just have a problem with a certain take on a character? So I don’t hate Bruce because I recognize the times he is written well in regards to his kids and I see the potential for that always being there, but that doesn’t stop me from hating on the times he ISN’T written well in regards to them and is basically outright abusive because I mean....that’s part of why I invest in Dick’s narratives so much....I come from an abusive household and as much as I WANT Bruce to be good for Dick, I recognize and see myself and my own story in a lot of Dick’s narratives with Bruce.....which is why I dislike Bruce on a lot of occasions....BUT I also recognize and see in the OVERALL CHARACTERS the potential for Bruce to do what DIDN’T happen in my own life and like....get his act together. Be better. FIX himself and his relationships with his kids so that he can give them the family they deserve.

And so that’s why and where its ideal for me to keep the fact that the flaws are in the writing, not the characters, front and center.

But that’s not necessarily ideal for everyone, is the thing you gotta remember to respect. And other people who might be drawn to Dick and Jason and the other kids’ narratives BECAUSE they relate specifically to them as characters who have dysfunctional or even unhealthy relationships with an abusive or neglectful parent.....they might be less inclined to not hate Bruce because a family resolution isn’t ultimately what they’re looking for when relating to these characters....maybe what’s best for them at this point in their life is to see or imagine stories where these characters break away from a family member who only seems to hurt them lately, to not wait and hope for things to get better or him to improve but to just...move on on their own. *Shrugs* I don’t know, I can’t speak for everyone but none of us can is the thing.

And so its messy as hell, and its not a lot of fun sometimes, but the fact is, we just all gotta try and remember that what we look for in these characters and what we see in them is not the only thing that’s there. There are SO many facets to these characters and their stories and SO many reasons people are drawn to them and SO many things that fans are looking for and hoping for from them.

So my only advice is don’t worry about countering so much as just....holding front and center your own motivations for loving Bruce’s character and the WHYS of it. And its not....it doesn’t have to be one or the other, you know? Its not a zero sum game. As much as it makes it complicated to navigate fandom a lot of times, there’s room for multiple interpretations to exist, and the reasons you love Bruce’s character don’t HAVE to counter or negate the reasons other people hate his character, and vice versa. The reasons other people hate and criticize Bruce don’t HAVE to impact or harm the things you love about him......just focus on speaking to and putting out there your own view of things, and by all means, be as forceful and passionate about that as you want or need to be! 

But just....know the reality is that even if you’re trying to persuade someone else to see Bruce the way you do, that doesn’t guarantee they will, or that they have to, because unlike in a lot of instances where people just smear other characters for entirely baseless reasons, a lot of people DO have anti-Bruce sentiments that are rooted in entirely real justifications.....but that’s not an indictment of your pro-Bruce sentiments, and it doesn’t have to be, and you don’t need to take it as one. Which means you don’t have to defend him....there’s nothing to defend, maybe. Your reasons for liking him have nothing to do with someone else’s reasons for hating him and they don’t need to go head to head and duel it out, necessarily.

Honestly, just whenever possible, just try to keep front and center in your mind and your reading of posts that like.....a lot of times “I hate Bruce” is actually more likely “I hate Bruce’s writing in x and y and z situations and stories” and that can make it a LOT easier to digest. 

I mean, going back to using myself as an example, obviously I’m hugely vocal in defensive of Dick Grayson, lol, but a lot of people question why I so often attack fanon characterizations of him specifically....and its specifically BECAUSE I’m attacking the tendency of so many fans to say “I hate Dick” when its actually in my eyes more “I hate Dick’s characterization - as depicted in these various fanon myths that only exist in fandom and have no basis outside it.” So THAT’S what I ‘defend’ Dick against more often than not, versus just....defending him against people who hate him - there’s no real counter for that, at the end of the day. You can’t MAKE someone like a character if they have actual real justifications for why.

But you CAN be clear about where it is you do and don’t agree with their view of a character.....is it because you have fundamentally different views of the character that are both rooted in canon basis, or is it because you feel they’re not accurately characterizing a character based on your knowledge of him, or is it because you both simply prioritize and focus on different areas of a character’s past writing? Etc. etc.

That won’t necessarily help you ‘win’ any arguments against an opposing viewpoint in fandom, but it will help you....deal with the existence of opposing viewpoints that have every bit as much validity as yours, I think. Just being able to recognize when someone isn’t criticizing or condemning the Bruce you know and love....its just that the Bruce they know and hate is kinda almost a different version of the character entirely.....but both versions can and do exist and its ultimately just a matter of finding some way to balance that.

I don’t know if that’s of any help at all, but hopefully there’s something in there that’ll be of use to you!

[bigskydreaming]

Interesting bit of little-remembered/mentioned Green Lantern lore: Kyle Rayner is mentally and emotionally over three thousand years old.

See, in the JLA story arc “The Obsidian Age,” back in 2002 or 2003, not long before the end of Kyle’s original solo GL series, the JLA lineup of Clark, Bruce, Diana, J’onn, Plastic Man, Kyle and Wally ended up three thousand years in the past in Atlantis, where they were killed by a JLA-style team of the time, thanks to the manipulations of an Atlantean sorceress named Ganymede.

At pretty much the last second, Bruce came up with a plan that would tie into failsafe protocols he had back in the present, and allow the new team he gathered then to resurrect the JLA....but to do so, he needed someone to inform the ‘rescue team’ of what to do....and there was only one person he could figure out a way to survive long enough to do that: Kyle.

So Kyle’s physical form was killed along with the rest of the JLA, but his mind and spirit survived by stowing his consciousness inside his own ring, which was then taken and hidden away by Manitou, one of the ‘ancient JLA’ who ended up siding with the JLA and joining them in the present later.

(Incidentally, this is part of what I love about Kyle so much. Bruce was just like “Okay, I need you to exist as a disembodied consciousness/ghost for 3,000 years just to pass on a message to the modern day heroes about how to save us all, can you do it?” And Kyle’s just like...”oh man, that’s gonna suck for me, but hey, if you say its what I gotta do, I’m your guy.” Like, much like Dick Grayson, Kyle Rayner was born to be a team player, which makes how often he spends isolated and alone super depressing).

But yeah, Kyle had to let the whole 3,000 years between then and the present day pass naturally, before the rescue JLA lineup, led by Nightwing, went searching for what happened to the JLA, found Kyle’s ring and him, and he could tell them the whole story and fill them in on Bruce’s plan to piggy-back off Ganymede’s own magic and get her to unintentionally resurrect them all herself.

So for 3,000 years, Kyle’s ghost essentially sat in a cave with no companion other than Manitou, who is similarly long-lived now thanks to the spell he cast to keep him alive long enough to help. Kyle’s joked about how many games of solitaire he played during the time, and how much time he spent contemplating the meaning of life and other deep philosophical questions, but like...the experience definitely left a deep and lasting effect on him.

In fact, not long after that story, it was one of the canon reasons Kyle left the JLA and Earth in general, to spend the next several years in space....as he told J’onn and Hal-as-the-Spectre....he was having a really hard time adjusting to life in the present day again, because he didn’t feel like he fit anymore. He didn’t know how to relate to people given the sheer scope of what he’d experienced and how long he’d spent existing mostly alone. He basically sent himself into self-imposed exile because he just didn’t get people anymore, and he genuinely felt more comfortable among alien species and out on his own in empty space.

Eventually, he adjusted more or less, with of course this also being due to a lot of later writers not knowing or being interested in factoring in this aspect of his stories and experience....but because of that period he spent in self-isolation away from Earth, even if the Obsidian Age isn’t often cited as a defining reason for that....ultimately, there’s a stark difference between the Kyle of before the Obsidian Age and the one after...because everyone who’s picked up with him after his space exile has tended to write him as a lot more quiet, introspective, contemplative than the more bravado-filled, joking, eternal frat boy kind of characterization he kept pretty consistently up until the Obsidian Age. 

You could easily argue that his experiences and several millennia spent mostly alone with just his thoughts directly played into his later ability to be the one and only person to master all seven emotions of the emotional spectrum and become a White Lantern without help from any other entities, just purely by himself....as well as it playing into how and why he was able to host the entity Ion so much longer than anyone else.

Anyway, I’ve always just found it a really fascinating aspect of his character that’s rarely remembered or played around with, when it both explains so much about his later stories and just has so much potential in general. Batman’s like “Hey you gotta play dead and just bum around as a ghost for three thousand years just cuz I said so,” and Kyle’s just like “Aww man? Seriously? Ugh, well if you say so, fine I guess. Let’s do this thing.”

Like, this was a guy who has on at least three different occasions been the most powerful person alive and at all other times exists as ‘just’ one of the biggest guns Earth has defending it, and has so little ego and so much implicit trust in his teammates and the talents and expertise of even someone with no superpowers whatsoever, that they say “here’s what we need from you” and he’s just like “if you say this is the only way, I trust you, so just tell me when and where.”

How can you not love a character like that? 

shfilafhlkfhalf

[bigskydreaming]

Once, you said you thought all tha batkids had a form of adhd in your opinion, so how do you think it is with every one of them Like, dick is probably an hiperactive one and tim seems to be de innantetive type, and idk damian must be hiperactive or the mix type one, idk with jason, do you think they have overloads or ??? Idk if i wrote everything right, i'm spanish so.. yeah...

You wrote everything just fine! Bilingual icon! We stan!

Tbh, I generally project various aspects of my own ADHD onto various different Batkids as a way of kinda….getting into each of their heads, in as much as its about reading those behaviors into their canon depictions. If that makes sense? So its not strictly about interpreting canon, when it comes to this, its a mix of that and just personal headcanons.

And just for general reference, whenever I use the term headcanon, personally, I use it to mean…..just how I like to imagine something about a character. It doesn’t mean there’s not canon out there that might contradict it, it means that for the sake of that particular headcanon, that’s not what I’m relying on or building off of.

So because ADHD contains a wide spectrum of behaviors and tendencies and symptoms, not all of which are present in every individual, there’s a lot that are ‘left out’ of my personal ADHD Batkids headcanons. So I mean, anyone who has different ADHD tendencies than I do myself is not necessarily going to agree with my takes or might perceive behaviors or mannerisms in the Batkids that I don’t myself.

Okay, so - 

Dick: Since its no secret that I relate to Dick the most and project onto him the most, he’s the ‘most like me’ in terms of ADHD behavior. He rambles, he bounces all over the place, he’s constantly in motion….when he has the freedom to be. That last part is critical because something a lot of people don’t consider about ADHD is that medication isn’t a universal experience. And so some people do manage to come up with various forms of personal behavior adjustments or coping strategies to manage their own symptoms without medication. Like for myself….my parents hated psychiatry, therapy, medication, etc. They didn’t want us going to anyone like that. 

So when I was growing up, medication literally wasn’t an option for me….but at the same time, they had massive expectations for me, academically, with piano, my sports, karate, etc….much like I view Dick having even just such expectations for himself due to wanting to impress Bruce, even if Bruce was trying not to be so overbearing about those things when Dick was younger. So in order to try and meet my parents’ high expectations, without medication or even an ADHD diagnosis when I was a kid….I had to find various strategies that worked for ME, to allow me to…circumvent, my more counter-productive tendencies. Some of them worked, some of them didn’t, and almost none of them were things that I consciously mapped out or thought about in those terms….because I wasn’t thinking about myself as someone who had ADHD, but rather someone who was lazy, inattentive, etc.

Basically, where I’m going with that is I do think Dick is very high energy and zigs and zags wildly in his thought processes, etc….which can make him highly intuitive, see connections that don’t occur to other people but just jump out to him, allow him to rally when he’s absolutely exhausted…BUT also have the downside of making him lose track of various things, have trouble sitting still even when stealth is a necessity, etc….things that as a vigilante and detective, he can’t AFFORD to let get in the way of his ‘duties.’ 

I do headcanon that he’s diagnosed and has medication to help with this….BUT he has his own….life adjustments that he’s calibrated over time to help with this as well. So for me, the times when he’s depicted as bouncing all over the place don’t contradict the times he’s shown able to be absolutely still and silent for the sake of a case, etc….because he’s found ways to compensate for his ADHD, with medication and even without it. For instance one thing that’s always been a huge help to me is exercise and physical activity. Even MORESO than medication at times, because I have a very fast metabolism and burn through most drugs very quickly. But for various reasons, my body and my ADHD are able to manufacture enough of what I need through various forms of exercise and physical activity that allow me to operate at my best. 

Like, when I can be, I’m a bit of a gym rat, which isn’t atypical for a Hollywood bi boy, lol, but it really has nothing to do with trying to stay in shape aesthetically. Okay not nothing, I mean, I AM a peacock, let’s be real, lmao. BUT. Its really more about me being my peak self, because exercising regularly, doing the physical activities I enjoy….they complement my meds and compensate for what my meds can’t, to allow me to kinda enjoy all the perks of my ADHD without suffering too many drawbacks from the downsides.

And so this is where I see Dick being very similar, and why he can encompass a wide range of behaviors and mannerisms…..his physical activity and athleticism. Its not about just training his body and keeping his body at peak performance, its about doing the same thing for his mind. 

BUT there are drawbacks here too…..because think about how in canon Dick doesn’t tend to do well with being injured or on bedrest….unable to be active, exercise, etc….its not just vanity or ego, its not just ADHD and wanting to be in motion….its also….without that constant consistent regimen of physical activity and exercise….his ADHD goes out of balance. His brain, his behavior, his moods aren’t ABLE to be at their best, even WITH medication. 

Like, for my own personal health reasons, I haven’t been physically able to exercise in a LONG time. And there’s a definite downside to that for me, even with me still on my meds…because my meds have ALWAYS been able to only do so much. So I’m more irritable and moody than I am when I’m able to exercise regularly, I’m more jittery and full of pent up energy with no way to vent it or release it when it builds up and starts to get overwhelming….basically I’m saying that lol, when you’re ADHD and you for various reasons have made your lifelong coping strategies contingent on your ability to stay physically active and fit….any situation that prevents you from doing your normal physical routines SUCKS. A LOT.

So, that to me is the biggest factor in my ADHD headcanons for Dick….not even the ADHD itself, but the way he’s built up strategies for coping with it even without meds (because I also headcanon he has a ridiculous metabolism, I mean look at him). And going hand in hand with that fact is that to various degrees I headcanon him as being somewhat DEPENDENT on his physical routines, his exercise, even his patrols, which have been a form of routine for him since he was a kid. So when those routines are disrupted, when he’s unable to go out in the field, or get out of bed….its not just about him WANTING to be out there because he’s restless, because he hates being sick or injured…its those things, sure, but its also about….his brain itself is out of whack as a consequence, he’s moody, he’s not as able to cope with his depression or PTSD symptoms or even just stress in general….

Like, to me, Dick isn’t a ‘bad patient’ or a pain when he’s sick or injured just to be contrary….he’s not in a rush to get back on his feet or back in the field because he’s too stubborn for his own good…its because he NEEDS to be. He doesn’t know how to be his best self without it.

(I’ll add onto this thread with reblogs for the other kids as I get time to add them in, since uh, this is a post unto itself. Oh how weird, I got carried away and said lots and lots just for one character OOOPS MUCH UNEXPECTED).