#and a alya and nino salter hate account

[jennrypan]

Will forever be an avid defender of Alya and Nino, fuck yall.

Felix can be a dick to everyone and give up all the miraculous for whatever reason and will NEVER receive the type of salt Alya and Nino do which is despicable in itself.

Chloe has bullied Marinette since day one and yet yall have her replace Alya ?? (i love Chloe but she and Marinette will never be friends, Marinette does not have to be Chloes friend for her to be redeemed!!!)

Stop treating the only main relevant brown characters like shit then act like the white ones can do no wrong yall aint slick!

Blame the shitty ass writing cuz literally everytime Lilas on screen EVERY CHARACTER makes ridiculous decisions!!

[funnylittlefella]

Racism in the miraculous fandom

Ive seen a lot of people making up theories that Alya is evil, and it upsets me cause the people who force it the most are usually just Alya salter/haters or they are just a little racist. I also see on tiktok where people present Alya as a stereotypical black girl (loud, angry and aggressive) when her actual character is chill? She’s a massive nerd, understanding and supportive. They also seem to assume that Nino and Alya have an abusive/toxic relationship which upsets me.

I think the show has presented that Alya is not evil, and is a valuable part of the team (as most of the characters will be because they will all get a permanent miraculous at some point I’m guessing) but I always see people cling onto little things and constantly say she will be evil. I am not saying that if you don’t like Alya that means your racist, I am only speaking about and to the people who will shit on characters of color for no justified reason.

Another thing is the whole Kagami or “Cacagami” situation. When Kagami was first introduced as a potential love interest for Adrien, the fandom panicked and started hating on the character before anything was even confirmed between Adrien and Kagami, I saw slurs and people writing about their distaste, calling her ugly saying she was boring or annoying or whatever else, however I saw no hate for Luka and while on one account I believe it’s because the fandom doesn’t want Adrien to be with anyone but mari, it also could also be internalized racism and people don’t realize.

The last thing I’m going to talk about is the white washing of Marinette, I see it in fanart, I see it in cosplay, I even see it in the show where I’ll be watching and randomly remember that marinette is supposed to be half Asian. Honestly I believe the show hasn’t done a very good job of making her connected to her background and it’s upsetting that it’s not explored in the show a lot. Marinettes character is Asian (white passing yes but Asian none the less) and it seems as if Thomas forgets that himself sometimes.

Anyways share how you feel and tell me your opinions, tell me if I wrong aswell I’d love to hear everyone’s thoughts.

(Once again I am going to say that you can dislike a character or color and not be racist, it’s just when you dislike a character because of their race that’s a problem)

[sugarcubetikki]

Marinette Isn’t A Mary Sue.

At least a half of her salters constantly complain about how Marinette’s a Mary Sue and use this as a reason to justify their hate of her character (Ironically, the other half keeps complaining about how her flaws are really really bad). There are a number of so-called “justifiable reasons” on why she’s a Mary Sue. And I’ll just say that I don’t agree with any of them. These reasons can range from “absolute nonsense. are you even watching the show?” to “I can see why you’d think that but you’re ignoring this aspect.” I’ll be breaking down each and every claim that I know of to tell you why exactly I disagree.

Marinette never faces the consequences of her mistakes

This is one of the reasons I downright disagree with and think is absolute nonsense. Marinette is very fallible. The show has portrayed that on multiple occasions. When she makes a mistake, she always faces the consequences and she tries to fix it. That element to her character is what makes her a great role model and it builds up majority of her character arc. I’m not sure what the salters who say this are exactly thinking, but it looks like they really need to re-watch the show. 

I’ll give you a fine example. Ikari Gozen is one of my favourite exhibits of her fixing her mistake. She judged Kagami too quick. Based on some presumptions she had on her personality, her feelings towards Adrien and her own jealousy, she judged her intentions too quick and made some really bad choices that episode by trying to sabotage her. In the first half of the episode, a lot of us were quite irritated by Marinette’s behaviour, we genuinely felt bad for Kagami. Which is quite surprising as Kagami is an over-hated character and Marinette is the popular protagonist. But no. The show painted the first half in such a manner that we’d feel sorry for Kagami and reprimand Marinette’s actions. The show itself acknowledged that Marinette was on the wrong side in that moment. That she wasn’t perfect, she was in the wrong. Until Marinette finds out that Kagami had genuine intentions, that she only wanted to be friends with her, she feels bad. She feels really bad with the way she treated her previously. And she realises that her unfriendly treatment could potentially lead to Kagami getting hurt, and yes, it did happen. Kagami did get hurt. And Marinette almost lost the chance of becoming friends with Kagami in that moment.  And she would have to live with that guilt for some time if her mother hadn’t called. When her mother called, Marinette stepped up and took the opportunity to prove to Kagami that she was a good friend. That she was sorry. And did want to be friends with her. She made a mistake, faces the consequences and steps up to fix them. The way her relationship with Kagami changes in the course of episodes is a really good example that tells us Marinette is fallible.

Marinette has way too many talents and achievements 

Okay. This one is somewhat reasonable and I can see where people are coming from here. However, I still don’t think it accounts for her being a Mary Sue. Here’s why. In Miraculous World, not going to lie, everyone is pretty talented, they’ve all made crazy achievements. Do I need to list now? 

Alya runs a famous blog: The Ladyblog. She even earned an interview with Nadia Chamack. Nino is a DJ. He appeared on a show and won! Marc and Nathaniel write/illustrate and publish comics! Ivan, Luka, Juleka and Rose are in a band: Kitty Section. They played live on TV! Adrien’s a teen model, multilingual, pianist, has great physical skills due to fencing and basketball. Even Lila has decent modelling skills, she works for Gabriel now. Kagami is an excellent fencer. That comes from the idea that she’s from a prestigious family world-renowned for fencing. Marinette is pretty close with Jagged because she designed his #1 album for him. Also, she won the contest for Gabriel and was recognised by Audrey Bourgeois. Max literally built a super-intelligent robot with emotions and everything. 

So, what does that mean? They’re all Mary Sues and Gary Stu’s. No! We need to remind ourselves that this a kids show and there’s the aspect of encouraging kids to believe in working on their own talents, so they’re encouraged to do anything and push ahead for their dreams. Plus, it doesn’t portray that their talents come naturally, it shows that they work for them and developed these talents through practice. 

Clumsiness and stuttering are Mary Sue traits

First of all, not every character that has these traits is a Mary Sue. It always depends on how these traits are represented. Her stuttering isn’t just there for no reason. It’s meant to display her difficulty with expressing her own feelings. We’ve had episodes with Marinette saying how it’s difficult for her to say what she feels. Episodes! And it isn’t just a meaningless detail. It represents her fear. Her fear of rejection. Her fear of being in a relationship and things going wrong. Her fear of many things. Her fear is the reason why she hesitates. Why she stutters. And it tells us that fear is completely natural. Fear in love is something that’s natural.  

I'm so tired of not being able to just tell him how I feel! But I'm so scared, Tikki, always so scared he'll reject me.

What if he tells me that he loves me? Or that he doesn't love me? Or that he likes me, but not in that way -

Yeah. Don’t you dare tell me that this fear isn’t depicted in the show. It’s blatantly obvious.

As for her clumsiness, it represents her nervousness. It comes in the form of her fear to mess up. She’s clumsy when she’s nervous. And thus she’s afraid she can mess up due to that clumsiness and nervousness. In the Origins, her insecurity, her nervousness was all displayed in the form of her clumsiness, and she knows she displays her nervousness through clumsiness And she was afraid that her clumsiness could mess things up. That’s why she believed she was disaster-prone. And incapable of being a superhero. Because she was nervous and scared. 

She gets too much screen-time

This one I really don’t get. How is having more screen time making her a Mary Sue? She’s the main protagonist. Of course, she’s going to get a lot of screen-time. Her endearing personality and active lifestyle molds the storyline of the show. She’s easy to follow along. If you’re comparing her to Adrien, I’ll say that...Adrien’s a mysterious and sheltered character. Giving him too much screen-time can get boring because he’s stuck at home all the time. We can focus on his family mystery but if the show does it too much, it ruins the mystery aspect of it. I adore Adrien getting screen-time with episodes focused around him too but I’m not going to expect him to get as much as screen-time as Marinette because his character is different, and him getting as much screen-time as her doesn’t work for the style and demographic. And claiming that she’s Mary Sue because of more screen-time is stupidity.

Encouraged jealousy and despising other girls around her crush is a Mary Sue quality

Firstly, the show never encourages Marinette’s jealousy. It doesn’t encourage it. Plus, she’s not jealous in every situation. Only in specific situation when she thinks there’s something off about the person like Chloe and Lila. In Volpina, Marinette had realised she had gone overboard with calling out Lila. And she did face consequences for it. Her akumatization. And she did try to fix her mistake in the end by apologising for overreacting. Lila was the one who turned her away that time. As for Kagami, her jealousy arc changed based on her attitudes about Kagami. During Frozer, she wasn’t jealous per say, upset but not jealous. Frozer made Marinette and Kagami misunderstand each other, that’s why they’re quite petty towards one and other for the next few episodes. In Animaestro, I don’t think Marinette would’ve been that petty if it weren’t for Chloe. But yeah, that episode isn’t one of her best moments. I’m not a fan of it either. In Ikari Gozen, these misunderstandings were cleared and so were the issues from Animaestro, and it’s fine now. On a overall, I don’t believe Marinette would get jealous around everyone. At least, not in a way where she would try to stop them from getting close to Adrien all the time. It depends on the person and situation. 

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In conclusion, Marinette isn’t a Mary Sue. She’s fallible, has flaws, fears and works for her achievements. And that’s on point. 

[ilikekidsshows]

@sparklyaxolotlstudent wrote:

Sorry but no.

I agree with everything in here except for this bit... which is the main point, but still...

“The very idea that the class does something wrong in ‘Chameleon’ is salt.“

Nope, sorry but nope.

Yes, it’s not their fault they believe Lila’s lies.

Yes, it’s totally in character to be benevolent to someone that they believe was disabled and needed the accomodation

But that’s also the only point were they willingly (but not maliciously, one hope) fucked up.

Lila needs to be at the front because of her tinnitus. Ok, that’s the info they had, that’s what they needed to accomodate.

There are four seats at the front, meaning that Chloe, Sabrina, Nino or Adrien were the only ones that actually needed to switch places.

And what happened?

It’s ambiguos, it might not even had been Lila’s idea to begin with, but everyone decide to switch seats to be with their best friends/boyfriend/girlfriend!

And send Marinette to the back.

Which was also not necessary by any means.

“Oh Marinette I’m sorry you have to be on your own, but you’re going to sit behind Nino and me and in front o X and Y”

Nope

“Oh yeah, you weren’t here, but we decided to switch seats so you’re vanquished to the back row. Sucks to be you amirite?”

Anyone is free to think whatever they want about the seat, some people have argued that the seat is meaningless, that Marinette was overdramatic, etc, etc. Bullshit. She wasn’t made a part of the seating decision, she wasn’t even given a heads up about the seating decision.

Again, you(general you) might think whatever you want, but this was enough to upset Marinette almost to the point of akumatization

“Oh, she should have speak up that she disagreed”

She tried, and the class almost lynched her. She dares to question this, the others glare at her with such hate you could think she just murdered their grandmas.  

So yeah, if anything, the class changing the whole seating arrangment without everyone agreeing to it (It’s heavily implied that Adrien was also not aware. Chloe and Sabrina could go either way, but it’s not like she would care) IS something they did wrong and SHOULD apologize. (And no, Alya’s “  You didn't think I'd let my BFF sit all by herself, did you?  “ is not an apology)

It’s not salt to point out narrative flaws.

I'm sorry, but what you wrote is literally salt. You're using the exact same arguments salters have been using for years now and it doesn't matter how many times you repackage them the rest of us are still not convinced. In fact, you're so stereotypical, you're even using the cliche salter opener "sorry but no" and replacing actual arguments with nothing more than “nope”. Because your arguments are literally "well, I personally disagree so you're wrong."

Even though we've seen this dance a million times, I'll repeat the counter steps.

1) Your use of hyperbole creates a bad faith argument. The class at no point “almost lynched” Marinette. Stop making things up. You’re trying to argue your point, not make a rant post.

2) You're holding everyone not named Marinette to a completely unreasonable standard of behavior. Fictional characters are flawed as people because otherwise it would be harder to keep stakes up for an engaging story. If the non malicious intentions of the class shouldn't be taken into account and they should be forced to apologise to Marinette, Marinette should be forced to apologise to Lila because she was literally bullying Lila in that episode by your own unreasonable standards of people always having to be perfect and always having to take other people's potential hurt feelings into account.

Or do only Marinette's feelings count? In your view they probably do, because you're such a stereotypical salter.

3) The story not going exactly like you want it to is not a "narrative flaw". That's you having expectations and treating anything that doesn't hit those expectations as bad and wrong is entitled. Then again, salters tend to be entitled so I guess you're playing true to type.

You're free to project and salt and whatever and not even just for self-therapy reasons but because you like it, but don't come at me telling me that's an actual analysis of the show. I have a degree in this stuff and your biases are obvious no matter how much you repeat the same salt discourse that's been around since 'Chameleon' aired.

You get a 0% for this assignment for misrepresenting the purpose of this exercise, and for presenting somebody else’s work as your own.