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phlve · 1 year ago

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Psychosophy Attitudes — Emotion

1E / First Emotion

To people with 1E the strongest experiences are associated with the emotional sphere. Such people consider it normal to experience feelings 200%, it doesn't matter whether it's joy or sorrow. Their emotions don't necessarily manifest externally, as they may try to restrain them, but inside they are bright and strong and they live by them.

To 1E it's not so important whether there is someone nearby, they can live alone with emotions. Sometimes they don't need anyone to rejoice or cry. It also happens that if there are people nearby, 1E express their emotions without looking back, they don't care if others "like" or approve of their emotional manifestation.

1E subconsciously believe that if someone doesn't share their feelings, they will be able to tell. They set an emotional framework and are ready to either extend them to everyone or move them out of the way if necessary.

1E don't always strive for emotional interaction. They may even miss the emotional response of their partner, and if they notice sometimes they may neglect them.

The feelings that 1E express in a fit of passion or anger may not touch the real person who caused them at all. These feelings are important to them in and of itself, and they express them for themselves, making the other a spectator.

When they express their feelings, 1E believe in them, feel them and therefore they don't lie. But they move away from these feelings just as quickly as they were lit up.

With all the strength of the emotional intensity, 1E don't strive for a prolonged outpour of feelings. The main thing for them to express themselves is to come to a result. However, their expression of feelings can be taken as a process for the reason that it has a lot of feelings, and it can jump from one to another for a sufficiently long time.

The expression of 1E can look like theatrical roles, beautiful paintings, photographs, poetry, music, or... tears, laughter, incoherent streams of words. Here genius and madness lay very close to each other.

To 1E feelings are the highest criterion in making decisions, such as whether to be with a person, to do a certain business, to buy a thing, to live in a city, etc. They can be very quick to make decisions in the heat of the moment.

Given that their emotions are strong and sharp, 1E people are very susceptible to external stimuli, so being under different ones they can say completely different things. To mature they need to learn to restrain these.

1E people may sometimes ask tactless questions, invading other people's feelings without asking. Or say things that hurt others, to which they usually don't think it necessary to apologise for.

1E usually have large, radiant eyes that seem to glow from the inside, and sometimes throw lightning. They have a very expressive face and exaggerated gestures, and tend to laugh out loud, which sometimes resembles a cackle. They love to dress brightly, to wear something unusual, unexpected.

In their speech there are many figurative expressions, comparisons, metaphors. Moreover, it can be both elating and melancholic, where the transition is often very quick, almost seamless.

1E are excellent starters of arousal in the opposite sex - the glitter in the eyes sparked by passion - all this is transmitted to the partner and initiates love. They don't even have to do something on purpose, it's enough to be themselves. Because of this, sometimes 1E people have fast-flowing romances.

1E are drawn to mysticism. They prioritise trusting their gut feelings and premonitions more than anything else. Faith is not just a word for them, they tend to sincerely believe in anything that they “feel” to be true (which is often accurate, but the rest of the time an inflated reality).

1E seek to romanticise everything that's possible, including their own view of the world, which they try to paint for themselves in a more colourful way. Even if the phenomena of life have a strict scientific basis, 1E still try to add to it an element of artistry, mysticism, mystery. It would be boring for them to live in a world that could only be explained by dry formulas.

In childhood, 1E were characterised by overt tearfulness or gaiety. Although this is a normal reaction to crises and external pressure for such a child, it is rarely understood by others and they might've heard people refer to them as "crybabies" or "hysterical", which they were hurt by.

In a critical situation where the First function is turned on first, if 1E are mature they'll resort to their other functions, or else it will look like an emotional tantrum.

Their world is generally colourful, stormy, deeply expressive and artistic, similar to a constantly heaving ocean.

1E types: EFLV, EFVL, ELFV, ELVF, EVFL, EVLF

2E / Second Emotion

2E provoke reactions and the clarification of relationships. They encourage acting in other people. 2E, like 2L, often "troll" people to get an interesting reaction out of them. They like to pull frankness out of people without promising anything. Often their style of communication is similar to endless flirting. To enthral a person and then reveal to want only friendship is their favourite game.

2E have the ability to express emotions only to the extent that it is adequate to the situation: no more, no less. When the situation changes, they're able to change their state almost instantly. They innately own the technique of emotional transformation.

The undoubted advantage of the 2E is their mastery of the word, and they can use it for both praise and criticism. In almost any situation, they know how to find the right words to "hook" and to please. They use emotions as a tool of influence, both positive and negative. They're not only emotional, but influence others through it.

2E seek to convey emotional states with maximum accuracy, avoiding false comparisons and hyperboles. If they're writing a letter or a story, then they'll try to choose the words so that they are all as appropriate as possible.

2E are capable of impromptu, associated with emotional vocabulary. They won't be able to make a "smart" speech without preparation, but to pronounce a deeply felt one.

2E are able to feel the mood of their audience and flexibly respond to it, choosing the necessary formulations and psychological techniques. They make good speakers.

The strength and richness of the emotional structure are a natural property of the 2E. In addition, they seek to constantly enrich their palette - they sensitively pick up all the shades of emotions that they hear, remember them and then reproduce them as needed, feeling satisfaction by playing with emotional strings.

In addition to emotional states, 2E collect stories, anecdotes, poems, drinking songs - they tend to constantly process various kinds of artistic information. The mature 2E possess a huge range of moods with which they can charge other people, lead them from one state to another, being on the same wavelength as them.

It's not at all necessary that 2E experience all the feelings that they demonstrate, for they do this not for themselves, but for the public. To them it's important to share emotions, exchange them with people. They love to sing and dance for others, they can especially memorise poems in order to read them later so that everyone gasps.

Such people measure any emotional expression with the answer of the interlocutor. They like to build an emotional dialogue, receive an answer, and create a bond game.

2E take care of other people's emotions. Unless necessary, they won't offend anyone, and if a person feels bad then they feel a natural desire to support and cheer them up.

Feeling well about the emotional state of other people, 2E can even take care of them to their own detriment. They often “forget” their own feelings and are carried away by supporting others. They do it completely disinterestedly, as they find a healing element in this.

Often they become the “soul of society" that creates an emotional atmosphere, both joyful and sad. 2E experience a vital need in the process of love: to love and to be loved and to know that this will always be so - this is their lasting desire.

In the behaviour of 2E, a certain mannerism, artificiality and sugary-ness can be observed. But in general, these are very charming people.

The second function is the best side of the human person - in the case of 2E, the best side of a person is the ability for emotional compassion, acting, and mastering the word.

2E types: FELV, FEVL, LEFV, LEVF, VEFL, VELF

3E / Third Emotion

Within 3E, as with any Third function, there is a duality. Outwardly they barely show emotions, but inside they feel a mighty potential. It may seem that they are completely indifferent, unphased, while in fact they burn with feeling and suffer from the fact that they cannot express these.

3E are sensitive to the emotions of others and are defenceless in front of emotional pressure. They are afraid of violent expression of feelings, of tantrums, and are completely lost in situations when they're forced to react to them. In addition, they're afraid of emotional pain and suffering that they cannot bear.

In close communication, and even more so in life, 3E are often perceived as impenetrable people: their partner often can't understand their feelings. They’re friendly, but at the same time they constantly keep their distance. It's difficult to guess what feelings they're experiencing, even direct questions don't help - this is very painful for those who crave emotional dialogue.

The critical question for 3E is distance or closeness in a relationship: they want intimacy, but put on a mask of indifference. There is little something wrong in the interaction - it closes immediately. When they are imposed on, they reproach. On one hand they always reach out to where they can receive emotions, and on the other they're afraid to manifest them.

The dream of any 3E is to open up and express: they're afraid that the outside world will not appreciate and support them, but they still wish for it since they can only get the greatest pleasure from emotional self-expression. Since this is difficult, they tend to seek a false release in hedonism, by lingering in sadness or even in work.

3E actually really like to talk about feelings, sorting them out to the smallest shades, experiencing each as fully as possible, and wishing they could do it more. If they're asked to remember something pleasant they'll remember, savouring every detail, even the most seemingly insignificant ones.

As children, 3E are considered ideal: they rarely cry and don't complain about anything, therefore parents are relieved of the need to reckon with their feelings. But if they're clamped down since childhood, they will grow even more sensitive and painfully incapable of openly expressing feelings.

Alcohol is one of the few means that allows 3E to be liberated - and as one might expect, as soon as the effect of alcohol ends they return to their squeezed, closed state, in which they're in most of the time.

The most difficult question for 3E is “Tell me how you feel” and “How do you feel about this?”. They don't fully understand their feelings: they can say that they love, and immediately begin to doubt it. It is important for them to confirm their own experiences in the process of dialogue with others. For 3E love is an interaction, during which people understand that they love each other.

Like any Third function, they're constantly in search of themselves and testing their own feelings. Such people can pursue careers that look into the depths of other people's souls - paths such as making music, becoming actors, or even

Sometimes they decide an outpour of feelings. They wish to say “I love you!”, like 1E do, to start crying is a very sweet release to them. In the few occasions they manage to expose their feelings genuinely, it looks very unusual and even somewhat desperate. But they can learn.

3E are characterised by contemplation. They love nature because it's safe there. For them, being alone is important, it’s where they can recover. They also love animals, and they usually reciprocate it. All of this is a consequence of the difficulty in expressing love towards people.

3E can be amiable, especially agreeable in situations where they feel at risk. In society, these are nice people who smile at everyone. 3E seek to charm people so that they love and cherish them. For this, they are ready for a lot, including giving in, pleasing and surrendering their interests, if it doesn't work out differently. Fortunately, it rarely comes to that. It is safe to say that 3E build relationships only with those who love them, and ignore those who don’t.

Almost everyone is able to charm 3E. This is a very strong side of them. They continue to be loved long after the relationship is over, sometimes all their life. 3E are remembered in the team, even if they quit many years ago. They are always remembered as sincere people.

The main disadvantage of 3E is a large number of masks and all kinds of protections. Delving deeper under their masks, they can begin to manipulate people (voluntarily or not). Often, instead of defending their emotional manifestations, they twist the situation, act offended and guilt-trip others. They may use this technique in the event that a person betrays their feelings, but sometimes even when they are at fault, as self-defence.

3E love to draw out a declaration of love from others, even if in that moment they are overwhelmed by feelings, they still try to relieve themselves of responsibility for them, to transfer it entirely to another person. They let you confess, will deeply appreciate it, then the next moment make fun of it. But 3E perform such manipulations mostly unconsciously. From within, they don't view them as such.

The "fig leaf" of the 3E is irony. They are characterised by the irony of the world (the ability to find a reason to ridicule everything).

3E have an innate humorous gift. They are inclined to say sharp jokes and be ironic about all sorts of phenomena of life, especially those that are distinguished by pretentiousness, and they do this with an absolutely imperturbable look. They value subtle humour, that hatches barely noticeable smiles.

3E involuntarily underestimate even very bright events. They don't tolerate excessive pathos, pretentiousness in the expression of feelings, and in their manifestations of emotions they try not to allow anything of the kind. They prefer to suffer and love in silence than to go too far with feelings. They tend to pull back on other people and are hurt by everything too loud, both in colours and in the expression of deeply-felt feeling outpours.

People with 3E are often distinguished by an even tone, a monotonous intonation, somewhat similar to mumbling. Because of their reduced expressivity, their speech is somewhat plain and they display few facial expressions and few gestures.

The most striking external sign of 3E is the impossibility of a wide open smile and laughter in a full voice. The smile comes out strained, the laugh is stifled, more like a giggle.

In general, the world of 3E is of muted colours and halftones. External connectedness is only a shell behind which the realm of strong experiences is hidden. Love means so much to them that the fear of losing it eventually forces 3E to fight for it (which would help them mature). They value a kind word and really appreciate a warm attitude. Most of all, they are afraid of hearing: "You are a stale biscuit, you have no feelings." Although they may sneer and mock and view life through inverted binoculars, what they really wish is to just gently purr about everything in the world.

3E types: FLEV, FVEL, LFEV, LVEF, VFEL, VLEF

4E / Fourth Emotion

4E manifest themselves in a very even and disinterested manner. Feelings are not a reason for them to express them, they don't see value in it. If they love, then they don't shout about it. If they suffer, then do so only on the inside.

4E find it easier to adjust to the emotional state of the partner than to set the emotional background. They don’t impose their feelings on others and easily take on the emotions of others. Next to high Emotions, they can be very bright; next to 3E they’ll fall silent. If such people are left alone, they may not pay attention to their emotional state at all and solely focus on their tasks.

4E are able to smile when necessary, compliment, joke, and even to raise their voice - all this happens "to the task," for a short time, and emotions fade as quickly as they arose. In fact, even while having fun with others, the Fourth Emotion continues to remain unaffected inside. 4E are able to adapt to any mood, to take root in any team. They are “omnivorous'' and emotionally "non-partisan".

The Fourth Emotion does not use emotions as an instrument of influence. And she is not interested in engaging in emotional dialogue.

4E don’t care about the feelings of other people, but don’t consciously hurt them either. They can only touch them with their indifference.

4E are impartial critics. Any artist, writer or composer will find a grateful and adequate response in it. Since she does not have her own aesthetic preferences, her criticism is very objective.

During puberty, 4E can be actively involved in creativity: dancing, poetry, singing. Then it usually goes away, and they become themselves - calm and uninvolved.

4E don’t usually create art themselves, but consume art as a media. At the same time, they are interested in everything and have no pronounced artistic preferences. Even if they get involved in artistic creation, they will be able to work in various genres and not have the framework that is characteristic of higher Emotions.

If 4E choose a creative field as his profession, then they will remain uninterested in the products of their emotional expression, and will be realised in other functions, simply using the Fourth Emotion as a tool.

4E types: FLVE, FVLE, LFVE, LVFE, VFLE, VLFE

#personality theory #personality types #typology #attitudinal psyche #psyche yoga #psychosophy

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farasen · 5 months ago

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Marlon analysis + adult headcanons

It's Marlon analysis that wasn't supposed to be an analysis baby

I think we all noticed that Marlon doesn't really have an inner conflict in the series. Moreover, he's usually the one who helps to solve these conflicts or supports other characters.

S1E3 - he's coming up with the concept for their logo, an image of their team. S2E6 - finds a guy to replace Vanessa for the game, and is just being a nice guy that can befriend an enemy (honestly this episode feels more about Kong or even Vanessa rather than Marlon). S2E11 - pretty much the only episode we see some sort of inner conflict in him, but it concerned the whole team, and again Marlon saves the day.

We don't see him angry that much either, older Wessel is trying hard to be the voice of reason. He's always the backbone, which kinda makes me wonder - does he suppress his emotions?

I've already talked about it a few times before, but I'm gonna mention it again for the full picture, but if you wanna read more you can go to this post. Wessels grew up without mother (at least we don't get a peek or even mentioning of her) so he, as an older brother, he most likely had to take care of Leon, growing up faster as a result. Marlon is just used to the role of protector, the backbone.

I saw people saying Marlon has a saviour complex, but I don't really agree with that. He does have some tendencies, but doesn't go full on white knight mode. You see, Marlon's help is not intrusive, he doesn't see his solution as the only right one and he doesn't seem to feel too much guilt when something doesn't work or at least it wasn't shown. He's just being a nice, reasonable guy most of the time.

What he does seem to have problems with is setting boundaries, especially with Leon. This was shown in s1e8 when Leon pushes Marlon to the ground. Sure, Marlon was shocked and didn't react properly in the moment, but they don't talk that through later either. And we rarely see him angry, even when he has a right to be.

He also might struggle with talking through his feelings. I don't have any proof of that from the show, but the fact that none of his episodes are actually about him is pretty concerning.

Gotta say that Marlon's moral compass is pretty clear. He wants justice (Kong in s2e6 and Leon in s2e12), he's forgiving (again Kong in s2e6 and Leon in s1e8) and supportive (basically every episode except for s1e4).

Honestly, there's nothing else I can say about Marlon as the show doesn't give any information about him. It's more interesting to talk about the possible outcomes of his behavior, which is exactly what I'm going to do further.

First of all, he would have to find his self worth. He's always been there for others, and not only for his little brother, but also for his friends. However, Leon grows older, he learns how to deal with his shit (I hope) and no longer requires a backbone in the face of his brother. Other friends don't need him that much either, they can help themselves. So, that leaves Marlon with nothing to work with. And that's the moment I think he might develop a saviour complex, because he wants to feel needed or helpful at least.

As I've mentioned before, he's most likely suppressing his emotions, which will obviously have an impact later. There could be different outcomes, from anger management issues to self harm. Or both. Whatever suits you more. I, personally, find the idea of Marlon lashing out on his friends when they break the boundaries unintentionally, but later blaming himself for that pretty appealing.

What else he can develop is depression and/or anxiety. That, again, steams from identity issues and troubles of finding his place. Moreover, that could slightly fuck up his relationships with others, cuz he would gradually drive himself away from others. And, since Marlon hadn't learnt or never felt the need of learning how to express his own emotions, his friends wouldn't be able to help him. Thus, he'd have to find a way to help himself.

And, in my opinion, the thing that would help Marlon would be art. We've seen him being creative when designing a logo for dwk, so maybe painting or creating a music would be a way of expressing himself, putting those emotions on the canvas and finally finding his own "I".

Yeah that's all I wanted to say about Marlon. It was supposed to be a sleepy rant on his adult version, but it turned into this lol.

Here, have some funny shots of him

#die wilden kerle #dwk #dwk animated series #die wilden kerle animated series #dwk marlon #long post #analysis

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animeisforanimation · 1 year ago

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The Apothecary Diaries vs SpyXFamily

What to even compare here you ask? Well.

“A bunch of snakes”.

In my mother tongue, that’s a phrase to describe a group of female coworkers. Although snakes actually bundle up to procreate (which makes the simile kinda queer lol), this is meant to express the idea that women have zero comradely and are always ready to bite each other or spit metaphorical poison.

And we see these unpleasant squabbles in both stories, but the way it’s shown is drastically different.

In “diaries” these relationship are the consequence of the way these women live: in a constant struggle for the power male (namely Emperor’s) attention can give them. And the stiles are as high as they get: all these women are no more than political assets and beautiful decorations for the court. Their lives depend of how well they play by the rules of the palace.

Plus class segregation is a thing.

So, it’s clear why maids of higher rank and of a different, even opposing mistress, would treat the main character poorly.

Moreover, these very interpersonal conflicts are the main focus, if even say appeal of a show like that. It’s a game of thrones kind of story. And the way Maomao reacts is adding to the story: she understands, she’s irritated and even worried for her social stance and very life - but can’t actually do anything and this tells us so much about her!

And when she snaps it’s not some personal gripe, but the anger of a doctor, whose patient is actively being killed by mundane ignorance.

“Spy family”, however, is a totally different beast. It’s a comedy. Light-hearted, told mainly through perspective of a child. It generally ignores serious topics but in the rare monologues of the westerners (credit where credits due: the handlers words to a young terrorist were heart-wrenching).

So, when we see these women belittle Yor, in s1 even jokingly (?!) threatening to send her to the secret police, try to humiliate and physically harm her - and then Yor gets them perplexed by her naivety and smiles and asking their help it reads as… also comedy? Except it’s not funny at all.

One can argue, that they are supposed to represent the inner turmoil of the society, inability to trust people - it is Cold War after all. But because of the way Yor reacts - with smiles and seemingly genuine childlike honesty, and especially because of that episode when one of them helps Yor Learn to cook - I just don’t see that.

It is a joke to the creator. Haha, funny ladies funnily bully their coworkers. Ah, women.

And it is horrifying because such people are monsters.

One may remember Les Miserables and the horrible fate of Fantine, brought on her by the “virtuous” women around her.

I live in a country with a history of delations. I live in a time I’m afraid one may call the police about my beliefs. It’s a constant creeping horror, not a comedy beat.

The other thing is context.

In “The diary” there’s a lot of time for Maomao to talk with different people, a lot of them are women, most of them help her, some don’t. And so when a problem arrives, the antagonism is between people who happen to be women.

In “Spy family” Yor almost never deal with other women, even their neighbors mainly talk to and about her husband (don’t even get me started in that nightmare of a lady spy obsessed with the male lead). And so these moments with her coworkers ring not just ill-used for comedy, but also kinda misogynistic.

There are nuance, of course. Difference of genre conventions and the amount of time and attention characters have - but none of it changes the fact that when I say bullying in “The apothecary diaries”, I was intrigued and wanted to see how the story will play out. Seeing it - again and again! - as a joke in Spy Family makes me grit my teeth and think of ditching the show for good.

#the apothecary diaries #kusuriya no hitorigoto #spy x family

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yourtoradorasextendedwarranty · 1 year ago

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Communication is Nuanced

So I've been seeing less traffic than usual, likely because I tend to post very doomer stuff. Or rather, stuff that makes people feel very doomer.

As such here's a topic that's less such and also kind of important for people to understand.

So above are the types of communication in general when it comes to verbal communication. Now something that tends to go hand in hand with is Nonverbal communication which can be seen with examples below.

Now why am I talking about this? Well fact is, These are the two most prominent forms of communication as they are often the best forms of communication. Reason being is because we transmit a lot of information through nonverbal means more often than not. It's one of the reasons that sarcasm is easier to notice when it's verbalized and you, or when you can see the person. It's normally communicated by an eyeroll or a shrug or even through vocal inflection.

Which brings me to Tumblr and other forms of social media. Most platforms like this one have one very huge issue. Purely as a matter of the technology, we communicate through written text or emojis or in some cases we do both. We do this as a means to imitate nonverbal communications like gestures, facial expressions, etc. Though in truth they do not have the same fundamental impact as actually seeing the nonverbal forms of communication in real time. Something simple like an eyebrow raise during a conversation can have a different meaning depending on where in the conversation it takes place.

However, in text, most people have to guess when it takes place even assuming you send an emoji to imitate it. As such, when communicating with people online, it's very important to do your best to loosely understand what is trying to be said, and ask questions if you do not fully grasp what is being said, or if you think that they could potentially mean something else.

I think one of the reasons that political and social discourse is so bad honestly is that people have gotten so used to communicating online that they have lost the ability to see nuance. Moreover, they have lost the understandings of nonverbal communication along the way with it. Now a days sarcasm isn't seen so much for what it is, so much as often it's seen as an attack.

Hand gestures, even common ones with very trivial meanings are not taken out of context of what they used to mean. Even so much as a shrug now, which was the universal "I don't know" or "It can't be helped" is misunderstood by people frequently. Language used to have a level of normalcy to it. Verbal and Nonverbal communication didn't often stray from it's original meaning, even when slang was involved.

Long story short, language and meanings are important. And asking honest questions not with spite or anger, but asking questions with the want of understanding seems to be a lost art. It's not bad to ask questions. And often times you should. Not everyone is good and conversing with others. Some excel at verbal, some excel at text based, some excel at nonverbal. Communication is how we live, thrive and survive as a species. And we need to stop warping and changing language to suit the wants of small population groups. Especially when that change alienates the other 90%+.

We as people need to start doing our best to actually learn proper communication, and start realizing that of the varying forms of it, written is the hardest to get your meaning across with. As such, we need to learn the nuances of it, and start learning to ask questions, and talk to people before we make the worst assessments. Mind you, take this all with a grain of salt. Some things can be extrapolated from and understood without deeper understanding, but we will not always know when that is the case.

As and example. I was sending out a tweet to someone asking if the camera on the new iPhone was worth upgrading for. However while thinking out everything in my head, I typed out, "At that point, just aim for a mid end newer camera", when in my head what I was thinking was, "Most newer phones are not worth upgrading for in general especially if you are on the prior model. Cameras especially are not making leap and bound upgrades that make the prices worth it. So if you would WANT to upgrade for the use of a better camera, you should just get a camera."

As you can tell. Those two things when held side by side are the same in meaning. However, the first with out the second, ends up getting the response I got which was, "I was asking a question about a phone". Which I could grasp was probably an annoyed response. But I have no one to blame buy myself for not actually putting into words what I was trying to express. And that's a thing that I myself need to also work on in regards to communication.

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agallimaufryofoddments · 2 years ago

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For those of you who are also slow on the uptake, Chapter(?) 3 of the Baccano! ~from the 1700s~ manga released on January 25. The best time for us to buy it was release day, but buying it is better late than never. As always, (the prospect of) new Baccano! media depends on consumer support.

Buy it despite DMM's "DMN" DRM, for we have no choice.

On the one hand, I hate DRM. On the other, if selling this manga via a DRM-strict retailer/platform succeeds in making people purchase it when they would have otherwise tried reading it for free, then. Fine. FiNe.

Remember to rate each installment. I think it's possible to do it without leaving a review: read the chapter in your browser, click the star on the end page, then click five stars on the review input form that pops up. It seems to save my five star rating even when I navigate away from the form. Leaving reviews themselves wouldn't hurt, unless...they're in English...probably. Do you think we could get away with leaving machine-translated ones? How many strangely-written reviews would it take to sound the 'overseas purchaser' alarm?

Edit: Or maybe not. The ratings I ‘gave’ aren’t reflecting on the listings for 2 and 3. Maybe a review is necessary after all.

Chapter 3 reactions under the cut.

Looks like this depicts parts of LN11 Interlude II and Chapter 4. I did have to manually transcribe some of the dialogue. This took way more time than I can afford.

The opening scene depicts the killing of the 28th victim/witness, an aristocrat named Lord/Sir Alonso. This must be the murder that Larolf reports to Esperanza in the latter half of LN11 Interlude III? Larolf describes the victim as a "boy" who witnessed the Mask Maker right before Niki did in the novel, but this Sir / Lord Alonso is certainly not a child. Hm...

I believe the bit of Niki we see in this chapter is her telling Esperanza the food is delicious from the beginning of Interlude III. However, the manga seems to be omitting the part where Larolf reports [Alonso's] murder? It shows Niki walking away with a maid, whereas Niki runs away when Larolf makes his report...and there's no moment where Esperanza is angered by the bruise on Niki's face per the LN.

Moreover, am I right that the manga also omits Monica and Elmer's encounter with the bald man and Maiza in Chapter 4? There's no marketplace with children singing the MM song, no bald man, no Maiza...

...but the previous chapters also omitted Elmer's first encounter with Maiza, didn't they? So the mangaka's been deliberately holding off on Maiza's introduction from the start. I guess the manga's going to move the bruise reaction, Larolf's report and the bald man/Maiza-Elmer-Monica encounter to another day? How will that account for Elmer's wound, though, since Elmer doesn't show up to class after being stabbed?

I probably need to reread manga chs. 1–2 and actually take note of what was and wasn't adapted. I should do that anyway, since that would be useful for the wiki.

Okay, some positives...

Larolf depicted! (I only know because he was depicted in Chapters 1–2, so this is a belated celebration of a Larolf Hancletia design. Ch.2 gave us Huey's mother, too.)

Warehouse depicted!

Patisserie lady depicted!

Hey, it's Elmer's room at Esperanza's place!

Elmer wounded! Bandages on Mask Maker's arm are neat.

Monica has a lot of fun expressions. Manga is leaning hard into the classic twitterpated teen girl archetype and her 'tells' (big eyes, blushing), and these do serve the purpose.

Denkurou and Zank (albeit seen, not heard)!

Elmer's back scars...

Some mild complaints:

Zank's body should be as dark-skinned as Zank's head. Did the mangaka forget to color the torso? If this is a lighting thing where Zank's head isn't in range of a light source, then Denkurou's body should reflect that too. It's such a weirdly stark difference in hue that it really looks like a coloring error.

Am I allowed to feel lukewarm about Elmer's design? Maybe the fact that I've never seen Elmer with flat (slicked?) hair is throwing me off (aka it's throwing me off a lot), but there's something about his head's shape as well. The big forehead?　The eyebrows floating halfway up the forehead? The flat hair is contibuting to the forehead's largeness.

To be totally fair, this is gawky teen!Elmer, not adult!Elmer, and Elmer on the LN11 cover does have a rounder face (than adult!Elmer) that I guess the manga is honoring.

And...

Elmer's back scars.

I am whelmed. I guess I've built up my mental image of the scars for so long that probably any illustration is doomed not to meet expectations. It might be unfair of me, but I can't help think that a mangaka could go all out on the scars, since they only have to be drawn for 1—3 panels—honestly, why not just devote a full page illustration to it or one panel that fills most of the page?

Ex: Contain Monica's horrified expression + Huey going ??? to one panel. Overlay that (opt. and the next panel) with a small panel of Huey's face to emphasize Huey actively following Monica's gaze. Thus, rather than showing a Huey!POV of Monica looking at Elmer, you could dedicate one big panel exclusively to Elmer's full back and arms. Go all out.

There, one and done.

Here's the LN description of Elmer's scars for comparison.

Elmer was stripped to the waist, squeezing his clothes out, and his back…

…was covered in scars.

And it wasn’t only his back; uncountable scars covered the parts of his arms that had been hidden by his sleeves.

Currently, not a single wound was bleeding, but if all those scars became wounds again, he couldn’t even imagine how much they would have bled—

That was how mutilated Elmer was.

He might have had even more scars than Huey’s mother had in his memories of her.

They weren’t just cuts. There were marks as if something had been used to gouge out divots of flesh, and an enormous burn that covered the top half of his back. Not only that, but the burns appeared to be covering countless more scars.

Where's the enormous burn? Those scars are pretty countable. I see plenty of unmamrred skin. Yep, I'm nitpicking now. Please give my apologies to the mangaka; my expectations were simply too high. Ultimately, I am grateful that Elmer's scars have finally been depicted in an official publication.

(Quick! Enami! Draw Elmer shirtless as a 20th anniversary treat!)

Defying Description

Esperanza

#Baccano!#Baccano #Baccano! ~From the 1700s~#inexqueuesable #February 11th 2023 #Author: Rev #queueing and hoping it doesn't publish until I'm back because I might have more to add #Post: Text #11th #February #2023

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oncillabrigade · 5 months ago

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Ford and Stan were never a case of the genius and the idiot. They were a case of the shy, book smart genius and the charismatic, applied knowledge genius. But they grew up in a family where only one of those combinations of traits was understood as intelligence. Moreover, they grew up in a family where there wasn't enough love and support for two people. Where they were both always trying to earn those things from their parents. Where Ford compensated for his social failures with academic competence, and Stan compensated for academic difficulties with his social successes.

(Sidebar: I think Ford spent his childhood including the judgment and ostracism he faced for the sixth finger as one of his social failures, hence his eagerness to reclaim his "anomaly" as part of his academic success. It transforms his pain into a data point, and he can handle data points no problem. The pain as pain is much harder.)

The thing that saved the Pines twins as kids was that they had each other for the love and support their parents couldn't or didn't provide. They also saw each other fully. But then, in a moment of fury, Ford fell into the trap of believing the story they were raised with: that Stan was the dumb one, and that he must therefore be envious of Ford's intelligence and the opportunities it gave him. He was hurt at the first situation where Stan didn't have his back, made all the worse by that situation being his one and only academic failure. He was so hurt that he stopped seeing Stan as Stan and saw him as a problem, the same way their parents always had. Once that happened, Stan was just as hurt and just as angry because he was just as betrayed.

Stan's betrayal of Ford was accidental, but Ford couldn't see or believe that because of his emotional state. Ford's behavior towards Stan was driven by emotion, not logic. But it's part of the family story that Ford never acts on his emotions. That's Stan's failing, another form of his intellectual incompetence, the same as flunking classes. And Stan wasn't impervious to the family story either—no one is. When you're told one thing your entire life, it's hard to shake off, and when you're hurt, it's easier to bear if you aren't fighting a known framework. So Stan assumed Ford was lashing out from a place of logic and reason, that it was a conscious decision to join with their parents in rejecting him.

That moment is, from a writing perspective, a perfect impetus for the dual Greek tragedy of their adult lives. It's driven by two different people's expression of the same character flaw: the inability to back themselves in a moment of pain without resorting to anger and blame. Just like in the best classic Greek tragedies (imo) it's a sympathetic failing. At the same time, just like in the best modern interpretations of the format (again, imo) it's a failing that was nurtured rather than natural. Oedipus' anger and impulsivity in the pursuit of the right things are perfectly sympathetic tragic flaws in Ancient Greek society, where a person's character was considered separate from their experiences. But Ford and Stan's glass self-confidence and violent defensiveness are far more sympathetic flaws to a modern American audience, which sees circumstances as a major shaper of people's personalities and reactions in moments of stress.

God. Gravity Falls is so fucking well-written and I love it so fucking much.

The success of the Mystery Shack is proof positive that if Stan had entered adulthood with a place to live and the ability to plan without focusing solely on survival, there's no limit to what he might have accomplished.

Turning a creaky old house into a bustling local hotspot while splitting your time between struggling to teach yourself physics, fixing a nearly incomprehensible machine and searching the area for meticulously hidden objects is no mean feat. And all this while getting no sleep, having zero emotional support, and stewing in guilt and worry.

Honestly it's no wonder he aged faster than Ford. I'm aging faster just thinking about it.

#gravity falls #reblogging particularly for that last line #jacey rants #stan pines #grunkle stan #ford pines

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circlecast · 1 year ago

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Are we Talking About Mental Health Too Much?

In this part of the conversation, we discuss the prevalence of discussions around mental health and the increase in depression and suicide rates. Despite the increased awareness, rates of depression and suicide have continued to rise, leading us to question why this might be the case. We speculate that the emphasis on mental health may have unintentionally contributed to the increase by bringing more attention to these issues. One possible reason for the increase in mental illness is the constant attention given to it. When mental health is openly discussed, people may start to believe that they must have a mental health problem themselves. Additionally, the differences in how men express their thoughts and emotions compared to women could be contributing to higher rates of suicide and depression among men. We also consider the impact of artificial connections through phones and social media. While these connections provide instant gratification, they lack the depth and authenticity of real connections with others. Our society's emphasis on instant gratification and the lack of appreciation for delayed gratification and deeper connections may be contributing to the problem. Moreover, an unrealistic expectation that we should be happy all the time could also be a factor. This expectation leads us to believe that any negative feelings we experience are abnormal. Ultimately, it is likely a combination of these factors that is contributing to the rise in mental illness. We emphasize that it is unrealistic to expect to be happy all the time. It is okay to feel sad or anxious, as these emotions do not ruin a person's day. We criticize doctors for prescribing SSRIs without fully understanding their impact, as blocking emotions can lead to problems like anger and numbness. We believe that face-to-face conversations and meaningful connections are vital for emotional well-being. We encourage open communication and sharing emotions with trusted friends. It's natural to feel stress as an adult, and we suggest finding healthy ways to manage it. If anyone needs help in finding coping mechanisms, we offer our assistance. In conclusion, it's crucial to be open about our emotions and recognize that it's okay to not feel happy all the time. We encourage listeners to share this message with friends, especially those who may be struggling. We must stop stressing over not feeling 100% and acknowledge that sometimes carrying a little bit of anxiety is normal. Sharing this information on social media platforms like Facebook, Twitter, or Threads can help spread the word about our men's group, the Relaxed Male, and how we're changing lives one thought at a time. If you need further assistance, visit relaxedmale.com/coaching to schedule a consultation call. Reach out to us with any questions or to connect by sending an email to [email protected] or visiting relaxedmail.com/contact. Thank you for listening, and we look forward to the next episode. Goodbye! 00:01:07 The obsession with talking about mental health 00:02:25 The rise of anxiety and different types of mental illnesses 00:03:49 The prediction that narcissism will be the next big topic 00:10:38 Artificial Calories: The Lack of Real Connections 00:11:53 Microwave Society: The Death of Delayed Gratification 00:12:40 Unrealistic Expectations of Happiness 00:13:52 Life is 50-50: Embracing Pain and Pleasure 00:15:47 The Problem with Doctors and Medication 00:21:29 Embracing Emotions and Making Positive Changes 00:23:05 Seeking Personal Coaching and Contacting the Speaker

Newest podcast episode to change your Mindset

#Mindset Anxiety RelaxedMale

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amicidomenicani · 2 years ago

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Question Thanks to your column, which I follow daily, I have had the chance to deepen my knowledge on many subjects and understand some positions of the Church which were unknown to me: I really appreciate it as it is indeed a unique and really profound service. Below are some questions which I‘d rather ask together, although they are of a very different nature. I apologize right now for any prolongings but they are on quite complex issues on which I often reflect upon as I want to try to follow Christian values and ,despite my many struggles, I would like to be a witness, too. The first is about abortion. In the Church I usually go to for confession there is a beautiful proposal for the examination of conscience; there is one aspect that is related to it and I wonder if I commit a sin thinking in a certain way. Every time I have talked with my confessors I have never been displeased and have total trust in their advice. However, I would like to look for other opinions as this is such a delicate subject. I oppose abortion from both a spiritual point of view (sacredness of life in every form) and a social one; we have indeed seen how abortion could be a sort of Trojan horse to profit on the weakest ones under the disguise of freedom and independence, without providing real help to women , their children and their families living in discomfort…but on the contrary, adding pain to pain. Yet, it is not for me to pass judgment and sometimes I hear of stories that are so complicated and painful besides heartrending choices that I become unable to have a personal opinion. Moreover, confronted with a pain and a choice which could be result of a different sensitivity in circumstances I do not understand, I prefer saying nothing and entrusting to God these issues even further (abstractly speaking and thinking about news stories, I have never had a chance to confront myself with women thinking to have an abortion). Furthermore, I read that sometimes, for lack of anything else, some attend private clinics that are very risky with tragic outcomes: therefore, the lack of a rule does not help and despair can lead to very dangerous acts. For these reasons, I believe that a legislation (also present in Italy) allowing abortion within certain limits is not wrong. However, this has to be presented as a desperate solution in desperate cases and not as a conquest of rights; it also has to be always discouraged, first and foremost at an institutional level by providing material and moral aid to difficult situations, enhancement of medical research, by educating to wait,to respect, to responsibility and love… by increasing testimonies of people who went through difficult experiences so that these could enlighten us and give us the strength (take for example Gianna Jessen but also several more ordinary but eloquent situations)... by strengthening families’ advisors towards a pro-life commitment… All that without excluding the possibility to have an abortion. In other words: “it is true, you have the chance to have an abortion, however, there is a community sorrounding you that will do everything possible to welcome you as a woman and a mother, and help you with your life and your baby’s not to be afraid”. My second question has to do with the way you manage your anger. I do not consider myself a very short-tempered person. However, when I get angry, I sometimes realize it is a matter of principles, pride and lack of humility. It makes me suffer terribly but I know it is on my account and hope I will be able to improve through goodwill, prayer, confession and communion. Sometimes, however, I feel within myself that, after several attempts, I have no other choice left but an abrupt and direct response as well as a steady voice tone. When I feel angry, I pray before expressing myself, generally I pray the rosary which I try to pray every day. My prayer is certainly not perfect, however, so

metimes a little silence helps me to reflect and put aside pride; sometimes it does not work and I act according to my pride and my own convenience (I would lie, if I said it is not so) but other times I feel calmer, maybe more lucid and avoid offending deliberately, although anger remains and transpires, as if it was a fire. In any case, after that, I experience feelings of guilt, and sometimes this is due to the awareness of my mistakes and to the sorrow of having hurt someone else. Other times, instead, it seems mostly caused by fear of people’s judgment and need for approval, which would not go lost, if I kept silent. In the first case the sense of guilt seems licit to me and helps me to improve myself, in the latter it is not. However, I really struggle to distinguish the differences. I ask you of any tips you might know in order to discern amongsts these cases. I send you my many thanks for your help and I will keep you in my prayers. Answer from the priest Dear sister, First of all, I apologise for the delay of my replies. I have come across your letter just today. 1. The first issue you place that is abortion is particularly painful. However, it is always necessary to face reality without turns of phrase. What is voluntary abortion if not the murder of a baby? Well, everyone can answer the following question: in which cases is it licit to kill a baby? 2. Here is the solution to the problem. It is Mother Teresa of Calcutta: “If you hear that a woman does not want to keep her baby and wishes to have an abortion, try to convince her to bring the baby to me. I will love him, seeing in him the sign of God’s love”. John Paul II wanted to repeat these words during the homily of beatification of Mother Teresa (see L’Osservatore Romano, 20-21 October 2003, page 8). 3. Thus, legislation has to move in this direction, the only one which, among other things, avoid the permanent drama lived by a woman who has had an abortion. 4. As for the second issue: in the Tabula aurea of Peter of Bergamo (a sort of dictionary which refers to several subjects that are dealt in Saint Thomas works) you can read: “Tongue is prone to sin as it is mobile and is the immediate tool of the heart, it also becomes rea (guilty) on its behalf only when it follows a sinful mind”. 5. In this regard, Saint Thomas makes Saint Augustine’s thought its own: “It depends on how the assertion proceeds from the heart as what makes a tongue sinful is the perverseness of the heart” (Summa Theologiae, II-II, 98, 1, ad 3). 6. The sorrow one feels while reacting to evil is a natural fact. It is an authentic sorrow. But sorrow is a feeling. It is not a synonym for bad will. For the discomfort you may feel while making an observation, despite this being gently made, or while raising your voice as well, is not a sin. Nor is causing some pain to the person, whom you make the observation, to be considered a sin, if this is made by the appropriate means. 7. Also Jesus raised his voice when he railed against the scribes and the Pharisees. He did thus not sin by eliciting sadness and evil thoughts in them, as when he said with vehemence: “"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You lock the kingdom of heaven before human beings. You do not enter yourselves, nor do you allow entrance to those trying to enter. "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You traverse sea and land to make one convert, and when that happens you make him a child of Gehenna twice as much as yourselves. "Woe to you, blind guides, who say, 'If one swears by the temple, it means nothing, but if one swears by the gold of the temple, one is obligated.' Blind fools, which is greater, the gold, or the temple that made the gold sacred? (Matthew, 23:13-17). I wish you well, I will remind you to the Lord and bless you. Father Angelo

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bestworstcase · 3 years ago

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on ‘villainy’ and varian’s and cassandra’s moral codes

for all that varian’s and cassandra’s villain arcs get compared to death they’re really more different than they are similar, and i think one of the more interesting distinctions is the characters’ moral perspectives on their own actions--namely that varian recognizes his own choices as villainous and consciously self-identifies as a ‘bad guy’ and cassandra not only…doesn’t do that but appears legitimately taken aback when varian says she’s ‘become the villain.’ from this we can infer that varian is transgressing his own personal sense of right and wrong while cassandra isn’t.

and… well with varian i think it’s pretty straightforward: he’s a kid who desperately wants to make the world a better place and make his father proud, but his impulsivity and recklessness and general disregard for lab safety foil his plans and get him into trouble. then one of his accidents puts his dad into what is essentially a magical coma and varian becomes singularly focused on reviving him--and, when he realizes that the king is more invested in covering up the problem than fixing it and his only hope lies with a zealously guarded relic belonging to the kingdom, he decides that the only way to achieve this goal is to start breaking the rules.

so he asks rapunzel--his friend who promised to help him--to retrieve some information the king is trying to steal from him, and then persuades her to help him access the sundrop vault; then when she balks at stealing it he makes it clear that he no longer trusts her and escapes with the flower. at this point he’s in the morally dubious zone; being strategic about what he tells rapunzel to make sure she helps him, spiking cookies with truth serum to sow chaos and get information he needs, and doing things that are crimes on paper but also largely victimless. i think these were things varian could probably rationalize as okay--not exactly good, but no one got hurt and he got what he needed.

except the flower’s magic is gone. he drugged the palace, manipulated rapunzel and broke her trust in him, and committed treason all for something useless because the actual magic of the sundrop is in rapunzel herself. now he’s in trouble, because he needs rapunzel’s help but his desperate measures guaranteed she won’t be willing to help him again. and this is when varian realizes that his only options are 1. give up on saving his dad and turn himself in and hope rapunzel takes pity on him, or 2. accept that no one is going to help him now and do whatever it takes to free quirin himself.

so--mutating ruddiger, attacking the city, kidnapping arianna and threatening her with encasement in amber, building an automaton army to defend him while he works--these are all things that varian feels are wrong, but chooses to do anyway because he doesn’t trust that anyone else will even try to save his father. despite his anger and his rationalizations, at the end of the day varian sees himself as doing bad things for good reasons. (“Believe me, I know/I’ve sunk pretty low” & “I’m the bad guy, that’s fine”)

and when his reasons fall through--when he fails to free his dad--he falls quickly into guilt and despair over having hurt people for nothing. he stews for a year in how unforgivable and ashamed he feels, and even when he teams up with the separatists, he’s doing it in, basically, pursuit of a reset button: he wants to take back what he did. and when rapunzel shows him that he can be forgiven, he can have a second chance, he does have people who are willing to help him and trust him again, he drops the memory-wiping idea and his alliance with the separatists without a second thought--because what rapunzel actually does is give him a way to pursue his goals without sacrificing his conscience, which is what he really needed the whole time.

now, cassandra, on the other hand…

cass is an interesting character in this regard because, while she does want to be a hero, she’s not at all altruistic. she’s consumed by her lack of autonomy and she craves not only control over her own life but also respect from the people around her--her desire to be a hero is very self-interested, at its core. and moreover she has a somewhat fatalistic view of the world wherein some people (not her) matter and some… just don’t.

moreover cassandra, despite her ambitions of becoming a guard, doesn’t so much as blink at eugene’s or the pub thugs’ criminal pasts--she is suspicious of lance at first, but on the grounds that he’s an unrepentant thief who showed up out of the blue under suspicious circumstances to ‘reconnect’ with his old partner in crime; eugene is also distrustful of lance, for the exact same reasons--and of course she doesn’t think twice about breaking the law herself. literally one of the very first things we see cassandra do is commit treason to make her friend happy. cass doesn’t care about the law, and she only wants to be a guard because she associates getting the job with having her dad’s approval and it’s also her ticket out of lifelong servitude.

on the other hand, cass does seem have a strong sense of right and wrong where people she cares about are concerned. she is constantly putting the desires and well-being of her friends ahead of not just her ambitions (e.g. in beginnings for rapunzel, or great expotations for varian) but also her own safety (e.g. risking her livelihood and home to sneak rapunzel out for the night in bea, or setting aside her misgivings about the sketchy bird people in freebird).

which is all to say--cass isn’t exactly amoral but the moral framework through which she sees the world is… more complicated than varian’s. she doesn’t seem particularly motivated to help strangers but she’ll move mountains to help people she cares about; she doesn’t care much about rules or laws except insofar as she doesn’t want to get caught breaking them, and she has this hierarchical mindset that some people matter--meaning, they get to make decisions for themselves and have people care about what they need and want--and some don’t, and that she herself is stuck in the latter category despite her best efforts to climb out of it.

which brings us to the subject of the moonstone, and cassandra’s villain arc, and why cass, unlike varian, doesn’t consider herself a bad person.

i think what it comes down to most is this: taking the moonstone is an act of defiance against not only rapunzel but also fate itself. waiting in the wings sets up cassandra’s resigned acceptance of this hierarchical order and her own cosmic insignificance, and then in crossing the line she REJECTS that same order. she’s raging against rapunzel but also against the cultural and legal and destined systems that put rapunzel on top and forced cass into subservience. she is very literally fighting for her freedom against the universe itself.

and when cass was not an altruistic or heavily morally motivated or even particularly law-abiding person before, and when her conscience has always been predominantly oriented around taking care of her friends first and herself second, and when the thing that drove her to this breaking point was her friends spitting that back in her face… well.

it’s easy to say “cass literally tried to murder rapunzel a bunch of times, how can she possibly believe she’s the good guy?”--but rapunzel maimed cass, blamed her for it, and consistently prioritized her destiny over cassandra’s wellbeing; and rapunzel represents the cosmic order that cass is fighting to liberate herself from. and while i know that the -popular- take on be very afraid is “cass is terrified of hurting rapunzel,” i submit it’s actually “cass is terrified of having to fight rapunzel, because she still believes that fate is literally tilted in rapunzel’s favor and she can’t win a direct fight with rapunzel.” that’s why she’s so scared; that’s why rapunzel seemingly deleting the red rocks hardens her resolve; that’s why she marches into corona with maximum drama and bluster and builds a fortress and tries so hard to mess with rapunzel’s head before the battle begins. she’s trying to even the odds. and that’s why, when rapunzel stomps her into the curb, cassandra’s immediate response is “i need an army.”

cassandra isn’t scared for rapunzel. she is scared OF rapunzel.

we do also see cass trying not to harm people she considers to be innocent bystanders; she uses the truth serum on varian bc she needs the incantation, but afterwards she doesn’t even bother to restrain him until after he starts pestering her, she says flat out that she doesn’t want him to get hurt when she fights rapunzel; similarly she is willing to hurt calliope to force rapunzel to comply, but--despite her deep personal dislike of calliope--uses a minimum amount of force and again verbally expresses that she doesn’t particularly want to hurt her, that it’s a means to an end and nothing more. attacking rapunzel? that’s fine, rapunzel is her enemy. attacking eugene? of course, he’s rapunzel’s closest ally. mind controlling the brotherhood? that kills two birds with one stone--eliminating powerful enemies with a vested interest in taking the moonstone away from her and turning them into allies who can level the playing field between her and rapunzel. and when she does finally snap and raze corona to the ground? the people of corona attacked her first. i think cass ABSOLUTELY sees herself as fighting a purely defensive war against people who have or will hurt her.

and this is, of course, ultimately why varian failed to get through to her during ‘nothing left to lose’--he appealed to her sense of morality and her sense of morality shrugged.

as for the thing that snaps her out of it? the moment that forces her to question whether she’s really as right as she thinks she is? it’s learning who her new friend really is. it’s the shock of finding out that she’s been allied with, confiding in, taking advice from a legendary villain, from a monster she likely grew up hearing stories about. cass takes it as a given that zhan tiri is evil--and if she’s friends with zhan tiri, what does that make her? and even then, cass is resistant to the idea that she might be a villain--“No, no, I’m nothing like you. Just because I’m pursuing my destiny doesn’t make me a bad person!”--which is, ultimately, very telling of her whole mindset. she’s not a bad guy, she’s fighting for her freedom. she’s not a bad guy, she’s protecting herself against people who want to exploit her. she’s not a bad guy, she’s just putting herself first for once.

and OAH generally, i’d argue, is not actually about cassandra trying to reconcile with rapunzel or redeem herself or be a better person, it’s… literally cass trying frantically to prove she’s NOT the bad guy. it’s “oh yeah? you think i’m a bad person? well could a bad guy do THIS? *lies and impersonates a former coworker and gets up on a stage to justify her own actions in front of a crowd*” it’s “a bad guy wouldn’t apologize, rapunzel never apologized for anything, and to prove i’m a better person I’M going to apologize! see? SEE!?”--and then everyone in corona attacks her and she goes “FINE, i’m the bad guy, fuck you all” and wrecks the place.

only then--only in plus est en vous--does cassandra get into a mindset similar to varian’s, of “i am the bad guy but if i can pull this off it will be worth it.” she’s not sorry. she still sees rapunzel as an enemy trying to get her under control again, and the only thing that’s really changed is cassandra acknowledging that she has in fact done bad things too.

and… i would argue that by the end of plus est cassandra… feels some guilt but isn’t sorry. “i’ve failed” and “i’ve done terrible things” and “i tried to prove i was more than everyone thought but they were right”--her anguish is not like varian’s anguish in RR, where he was consumed with despair because no one could possibly forgive him for the things he did. cassandra is upset because she did awful things and failed and she perceives that failure as proof of her own worthlessness. she’s right back to feeling how she felt in waiting in the wings but with a hefty new helping of self-disgust and shame for having been stupid enough to believe she could change anything for herself.

she’s not sorry. she’s not pleading for forgiveness. she just wants rapunzel to give up and leave her alone--& then, after rapunzel convinces her that she’s wrong, and she does have worth as a person, and she does have a destiny of her own, cass does what’s necessary to clean up the crisis she created and then… just bounces. she gets the freedom she wanted and leaves without a backward glance.

(which. good for her.)

tl;dr: varian’s villain arc explores his moral scruples and what it takes for him to be willing to ignore them, whereas cassandra’s villain arc explores her incendiary reaction to a lifetime of injustices; she isn’t amoral but her sense of right and wrong is, unlike varian’s, very contextual and personal. varian is a pragmatic idealist who wants to be lawful good but is capable of setting his own morals aside in pursuit of a goal he considers to be important enough, and cassandra is one radicalizing incident away from realizing that her grievances are not a unique personal failing but a systemic problem and then leading a class uprising.

#tts

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a-dragons-explanations · 11 months ago

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Hi. Rani again, just a slightly different sideblog this time (for reasons of wanting to do this on the blog with a lower follower count, because that felt polite).

So normally when people walk away from a conversation like this, I just drop it and let them - for one, I get that life stuff happens and you might just have not had the time or energy to respond (especially considering that things got a bit heated in the discussions on the original version of this post), and for another, I don't want to come off as actually harassing people. Forgive me if this is in fact a case of you just not having had the time and/or energy to respond yet, but it's been over 48 hours since you posted this and I initially responded to it, and you were previously consistently responding to people's replies on the original post within a few hours - and, as I said, you also didn't initially respond to these same questions from me on that first post either (though again, that may well just be because it got a bit lost in the scuffle that happened) - so you can understand why the conclusion that I am, in fact, being intentionally ignored seems more and more likely.

Despite that being my general policy, however: in this specific instance, because of a specific series of events and because you're actually a member of the community (as opposed to the antikin whom I usually find myself in this situation with), I wanted to point out a couple of things. If you choose to not respond to this, that's fine, and I won't continue any further, but I wanted to be transparent and say this straight-up, and as previously mentioned, I wanted to do it on a blog with a lower follower count because I frankly don't feel like it's polite to put you on blast in front of around three thousand people. (And I felt like it would be significantly weirder and more pressuring to DM you out of nowhere with it.)

In that previous discussion (linked again, as above), you criticized Page (@/who-is-page) for his tone (that is, upset and angry) and told him to, quote, "Maybe ask questions before pointing fingers." Moreover, you did this while, if I may be blunt here, ignoring a large portion of his actual rhetorical points in favor of criticizing the way he said them. I can understand not wanting to engage in a discussion with that tone of anger involved. However, you have simultaneously and subsequently proceeded to flat-out ignore me and others when we bring the questions you directly asked Page for, along with genuine critiques and concerns, in the politer tone which you requested and the absence of which you effectively used as a reason to ignore Page's rhetorical points. @/that-dreaming-dragon and @/the-wolf-poet got no response from you at all, and while you responded to @/unlikely-archangel, it was only to assent to xyr criticism of your tone, and xyr actual rhetorical points and questions were, again, completely ignored.

Bluntly, Thorn, it is difficult to draw any conclusion from that but a) that you can't actually defend your point, and instead of admitting that and conceding that you may have been wrong, you're choosing to selectively answer only what little you can refute or criticize your opponents for, and b) that you aren't actually interested in the "civil discussion" you demanded from Page in the first place, despite claiming in that aforementioned conversation,

"My whole point in this discussion that I tried to make clear is that I am NOT the judge of things, but neither are you. I hear your side of things, and I will keep things into account, but I will continue to look into the topic and allow people to express an opinion if it seems important like this."

Which is, bluntly, a bad look, a show of hypocrisy, and just plain rude to the people and community you were kind of coming off as making demands toward (less so in the way you rephrased this newer version of the post, but you're still saying we should change a major part of our community's language, even if it's no longer phrased as "this is what we're doing now, you're not allowed to keep doing it the old way").

If you've decided you don't want to engage with this topic anymore, then fine; if you ignore this, then let this be the last thing said on it. Like I said, I don't want to come off as harassing you or anything; I don't intend to pursue this further unless you want to. But I want to point out the pattern you are showing to you, because I do believe that you genuinely were trying to do the right thing with this post, and I want you to have the opportunity to realize that this is a part of why people are getting upset and angry that you may not have seen or understood so that we can hopefully avoid this happening in the future.

Anyway. That's all. Thank you for your time.

Why people with PLS find the use of "phantom limbs" by the alterhuman community offensive

NOTE: This is a repost of an ealier post with more of an own-opinion/giving people with PLS a voice-approach rather than a community announcement, after having received critique from it that I agree with. I am completely fine with people having different opinions on this. I might make a video about this in the future, but I'd like to make you all aware of a statement I've received from people with PLS.

The use of the medical term "phantom limbs" is heavily tied to Phantom Limb Syndrome (PLS) which is a medical condition that affects amputees and those born with congenital differences in anatomy. It can be similar but is said to be vastly different from what otherkin and therians experience during phantom shifts. People experiencing PLS and the like have made it known that comparing phantom shifts to the actual loss of a limb or PLS is offensive, so I am of the belief that this should not be done again. I personally recommend using the words phantom shifts, parts or appendages, or specify that appendages such as phantom paws, wings, tails, etc. instead.

I personally take responsibility for having made this comparison in the past, and I'd like to apologize to people who experience PLS or have lost a limb for doing so. It was not my place to make this comparison, as I cannot know what the experiences is actually like.

I urge everyone who may own an Alterhuman platform (whether that be a Discord server or social media platform), and who agree with this statement, to spread the word about this. You are free to use part of this text to explain things.

#obligatory to my followers: don't be assholes. the discussion's clearly been had. don't go after them to be a dick #the point has been made you don't need to dogpile them #dragon chatter #through doubt you have unlocked sideblog #<- forgive my snarky tag for things that came here from the main 'kin blog #supernumerary phantom limbs

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xiyao-feels · 3 years ago

Note

i've seen takes that jgy started playing turmoil before the staircase, aka wwx comments that it would take 3months for turmoil to kill nmj (ch64) so obviously jgy started playing it a long time ago, causing all of nmj's anger, all of that was his fault.

but also the novel says that jgy made a decision on the stairs or gave something up then a few days later played for nmj (ch 49) and like...idk what that could be except for killing nmj, is there something else this could be?

is wwx right? is mxtx bad at timelines? is nmj kick 3 months in the past, what is the time between 49 and 50 (when nmj dies in 2mo)

idk this whole thing is fuzzy and if you have any clarification or insight i'd like to hear it

-🦊

Fox anon! I'm glad to hear from you, and I hope you're doing well. I'm sorry I took so long to answer this—I was trying to be thorough, you all can judge whether I succeeded.

Now, I think the first thing to note here is that WWX actually and explicitly observes the Song of Clarity working when JGY is playing for NMJ before the stairs (ch 49):

Since then, Jin GuangYao would travel from Lanling to Qinghe every few days, playing Sound of Lucidity to help quell Nie MingJue rage. He tried his hardest, without speaking even a single word of complaint. Sound of Lucidity was indeed effective. Wei WuXian could clearly feel that the hostile energy within Nie MingJue was being suppressed. And, when playing the guqin, the way that the two conversed and got along even had a hint of the peace they had before they fell out. He began to think that maybe the so-called busy reestablishing the Cloud Recesses was just an excuse. Perhaps Lan XiChen simply wanted to give Nie MingJue and Jin GuangYao a chance to ease their tension.

(emphasis mine)

I think this is pretty conclusive. WWX's observations on the spot override his conclusions after a) being extensively soaked in NMJ's anger/resentment (ch 48-50) b) the entire drama afterwards at Jinlintai including being stabbed through by Jin Ling (ch 50) and c) resting and recovering for four days (ch 63).

Moreover, let's look at what WWX actually says in chapter 63:

Wei WuXian, “Jin GuangYao’s spiritual energy isn’t high. He wouldn’t have been able to take someone’s life with just seven notes. And killing him this way would’ve been too obvious. He definitely wouldn’t have chosen a song so powerful. But, if he could use the reason of playing the Song of Clarity for ChiFeng-Zun to calm his temper and continued to play it for three months, would the song be able to act as a slow poison and catalyse ChiFeng-Zun’s outburst?”

He's asking LXC questions about Turmoil, because it's new to him and he doesn't understand everything about it. I think it's pretty clear here that he's starting from how long he saw JGY play for NMJ, and asking if that would be long enough, rather than definitively stating that it would have to take three months; nor is there anything in LXC's response ("… Yes") that suggests three months is any kind of necessary minimum.

So those are the facts at hand. And imho if you look at the text in the later Empathy, there's a great deal of supporting evidence as well. There's the moment you mention, where JGY seems to be making a decision:

Nie MingJue, “Then why don’t you sacrifice yourself? Are you any nobler than them? Are you any different from them?”

Jin GuangYao stared at him. A moment later, as though he had finally either decided on something or given up on something, he replied calmly, “Yes.”

He looked up. In his expression were some of pride, some of calmness, and some of a faint insanity, “I and they, of course we are different!”

I agree with you, he's deciding to give up on NMJ—and if it's something else, what is it? If JGY isn't giving up on getting through to NMJ here, what function does this line serve in the text?

And I think it's worth noting here, as I've noted before—when JGY is talking about how different his and NMJ's positions are, he says "Your background is noble and your cultivation is high"; and the "Your background is noble" part is 你出身高贵, with the 高贵 being the "noble" part. When NMJ is asking him "Are you any nobler than them? Are you any different from them?" the "Are you any nobler than them?" is 你比他们高贵吗—so the "noble" part is, again, the same word, 高贵. Given that JGY has just spent a great deal of breath explaining that he is different from NMJ precisely because of his less-noble background, this is very much a pair of questions that might quite justifiably make JGY feel like NMJ is just completely not understanding anything he is saying here at all.

Besides that moment, there is the way he approaches or interacts with NMJ, which is quite noticeably different after the stairs. If you look at the beginning of the stairs, he's trying to convince NMJ to let the XY thing go: he says that if XY is locked up for life and can't hurt people, this isn't too different from him being executed, and then when NMJ does not accept this, points out that it's JGY's father's command and he cannot simply go against it as NMJ wishes. Once JGY loses his temper, he is still presenting arguments for his position—which granted is now approximately "you're being a hypocrite and you don't understand things", but he is still arguing for it—that is, he is still trying to reach NMJ; he is acting as though on some level he believes he can get through to him.

But in attempting to convince NMJ about XY, he is not acting like someone who expects that NMJ is right about to die; because if he were expecting that, he could simply say whatever he likes to put NMJ off, knowing that he won't actually have to pay up. Similarly, in attempting to get through to NMJ via argument, however angrily, he is not treating NMJ as purely an object to be manipulated; NMJ's beliefs matter to JGY separately (I am not saying /only/ separately) from what those beliefs lead NMJ to do. To put it another way: he cares about what NMJ thinks. This too is something that prevents JGY from simply telling NMJ whatever he wishes to hear, and this, too, is lost at the stairs.

For after the stairs, telling NMJ what he wants to hear, and just telling NMJ something that will put him off because he knows or hopes he won't have to pay up, are exactly what JGY does. When he shows up at the Unclean Realm a few days later, he tells NMJ he's here to acknowledge his mistakes and that he's realized NMJ is "doing this" for him; he promises to bring NMJ XY's head in two months, and tells NMJ he can do whatever he likes with him if JGY does not. This is a significant change in behaviour from before the stairs, and in consideration with all the other evidence it seems to me that this is because, post-stairs, he no longer values what NMJ thinks of him, and he is now gambling on his killing NMJ before NMJ kills him.

The only area where he does push back now is NMJ's treatment of NHS, I suspect because he worries about what NMJ might do or continue to do to NHS in his remaining two months of life.

So: I really do think the evidence is pretty clear that JGY starts with Turmoil after the stairs, in that it is directly signalled by the text and in that all the evidence around it backs this up.

That said, I have seen other objections raised by various anti-JGY folk, and while some of them have more merit than others I think it's worth taking the time to go over them.

-JGY couldn't possibly have prepared the Turmoil music in the few days between the stairs and him starting to play for NMJ after.

Yes, I agree; he must have had it prepared earlier. But that only means that he had it prepared, not that he was using it, and while there are certainly people who will only prepare a weapon if they are sure they will use it, I really don't think JGY is among them. He might also have prepared it as evidence for his father that he was working on solving the problem.

-WWX didn't notice a difference between the music JGY was playing before the stairs and the music he was playing after; therefore, it must be the same music.

Honestly, I think that WWX just didn't notice. It's explicitly described as very subtle, and indeed he can't tell the difference between the altered passage and the rest of the song (ch 63):

Wei WuXian withdrew the flute from his lips, “It really is this section? But I don’t find this section different at all.”

And he again observes how similar they are in chapter 64:

And he combined them so well. They sound as though there were the same. His musical talent is indeed excellent.

His repeated observation that they sound just the same suggests that he could very well have failed to notice, I think, and indeed he would have heard the altered version more often.

There is also another explanation, entirely compatible with JGY only using Turmoil after the stairs. WWX says of JGY playing Turmoil that he must have "used little spiritual power" during the Clarity sections, and "only exerted power" during the Turmoil section (ch 64). So if we think WWX would definitely have noticed the difference, there is an explanation for how he nevertheless very clearly observed NMJ's hostile energy suppressed by the music; JGY might have been using his power during the (much longer) Clarity part, and only used a very little during Turmoil. Personally, I think that it fits better with the overall emotional arc if JGY didn't change the music he was playing until after the stairs; but I accept this isn't ruled out as a possibility.

I feel obliged to note that at one point, after I was challenged on the issue of JGY changing the music after the stairs and pointed out WWX noticing NMJ's hostile energy being suppressed, as above, I was offered as an explanation for the passage that JGY couldn't possibly have abruptly switched to Turmoil right away when he started playing for NMJ, because NMJ would have noticed that he was suddenly feeling worse; and that therefore WWX clearly feeling NMJ's hostile energy being suppressed was not really evidence that JGY was playing Clarity and not Turmoil before the stairs. But I disagree with this, on two counts.

First, it is not clear to me that NMJ would in fact notice. He does not seem to be very self-aware about the effects of the sabre curse. He explicitly denies it at the stairs, for example: "I am not [in turmoil]. I know what I'm doing" (ch 49). After he burns NHS' things, when JGY asks him if he's told NHS about the sabre curse yet, NMJ asks "Why would I tell him so soon?" even though at this point he is quite clearly being affected (ch 50). And when he kicks open the door to kill JGY in chapter 50, he seems not to think about the curse at all. Of course this last is moments before he qi deviates and dies and is therefore perhaps not representative, but it fits with the general pattern; I don't believe we ever see him consider whether his anger might be because of the sabre curse, and indeed he is hardly given to questioning the righteousness of his anger in general.

Secondly, and more abstractly...WWX observing the hostile energy being suppressed—"clearly feel[ing]" it being suppressed (ch 49)—may not be /literally/ incompatible with the idea that JGY changed music after the stairs. But a story isn't just a collection of facts, and I think by far the most natural interpretation of this, in context, is that JGY is playing Clarity and not Turmoil. Which is not of course to say you can't have a resistant reading here, but I think it's generally good practice to acknowledge when your readings are resistant readings, and especially if you have a resistant reading not to say it is the only possible reading of the facts.

-JGY has no motive for playing for NMJ other than wanting him dead.

If we assume rather that he doesn't want him dead, he pretty clearly has a motive to help keep NMJ's temper under control, both on a personal level (so NMJ doesn't attack or embarrass him) and on a political level (so NMJ doesn't lose it and embarrass JGS). I would also like to note that although it was some time ago, and it seems likely that even before the stairs JGY's feelings about NMJ are not as positive as once they were, we have seen JGY go to quite heroic lengths to save NMJ's life before, when he saves him from Wen Ruohan by misdirection and assassination then drag/carries his unconscious body rather than leave him there and make good his own escape.

-The stairs and the fan burning both happen before JGY starts playing for NMJ after the stairs; NMJ wouldn't do either of those things in his right mind…

I agree; the Nie have to deal with the sabre curse. I think it's worth pointing out, too, that aside from Clarity we don't see NMJ take any measures to try to deal with the curse, either directly in addressing the curse itself, or by preventing himself from acting excessively under the influence of the curse; it shouldn't be surprising, then, that the curse can cause such drastic incidents.

-…and the sabre curse wouldn't be strong enough.

This one really confuses me as an objection, I'm going to be honest. We can be pretty sure NMJ would have qi deviated eventually, Turmoil or no. NHS says this in chapter 26:

"The sabers of our past sect leaders were all heavy with hostile energy and killing intent. Almost every single sect leader met a sudden death from a qi deviation explosion. Their irritable tempers also had a lot to do with this."

(As a side note: the missing paragraph in the ER translation right after this has I think occasionally led people to the conclusion that it is the qi deviation and such that WWX suggests is similar to demonic cultivation, as opposed to the sabres turning murderous after the deaths of their owners—you can see the Taming Wangxian and the MDZS Translation versions for the full context of the exchange.)

So NMJ was almost sure to qi deviate eventually! Moreover, he would have greatly strengthened the sabre spirit through his extensive use of Baxia during Sunshot, and after the war he continues to pursue cultivating with the sabre, without, I think, any sign of moderation. And it seems likely that he is already showing recognizable symptoms of the curse by the time JGY starts playing for him alone, as Clarity seems intended to slow the progression of the curse and also like something relatively newly introduced—they don't seem to have been doing this since Sunshot just in case, or anything. So how then could we be sure that the sabre curse on its own would be insufficient?

-NMJ wasn't at all violent before JGY started playing for him

This is simply not true. Unfortunately we don't see much of him outside of Empathy, but looking exclusively at things that happen before JGY starts playing for him:

His reputation in Sunshot is about his destroying the Wen, contrasted with LXC's which is about saving people (ch 48):

During the Sunshot Campaign, stories of praise were told about all three of the Venerated Triad. The ones of ChiFeng-Zun were about how he swept over all obstacles, leaving not even a trace of the Wen-dogs after he finished. ZeWu-Jun—Lan XiChen—however, was different from him. After the situation of the Gusu area had settled down, Lan QiRen was able to defend it with great tenacity. Thus, Lan XiChen often travelled to aid others, saving lives from danger. In all of the Sunshot Campaign, he had countless times recovered lost territory and assisted narrow escapes. This was why people were ecstatic whenever they heard his name, as though they gained a ray of hope, a powerful trump card.

The description of his reaction to seeing MY kill the Jin captain pretty strongly suggests his initial reaction was to attack MY on the spot (ch 48):

Nie MingJue saw all of the scene. Without saying a word, he unsheathed his saber by an inch. A sharp ring pierced through the air.

Hearing the familiar sound of unsheathing, Meng Yao immediately trembled. He spun around, his soul almost evaporating, “… Sect Leader Nie?”

Nie MingJue pulled all of his saber out of its sheath. The body of the sword glared brightly, yet the blade itself vaguely glinted in the red shade of blood. Wei WuXian could feel the billowing anger from him, along with emotions of disappointment and hatred.

Meng Yao knew Nie MingJue’s character more than anyone else. He dropped the sword with a clang, “Sect Leader Nie, Sect Leader Nie! Please wait, please wait! I can explain!”

Even after he's listening, he ends up grabbing MY by the collar and lifting him up (ch 48).

When he's explaining what happened with MY to LXC, he announces his intention to kill MY if he ever sees him again (ch 48), and after MY kills WRH, saving NMJ's life in doing so, and is carrying him out afterwards, he grabs his sabre from MY's hand and tries to kill MY again (ch 49). He only stops when LXC physically blocks him, and changes his mind after LXC explains that MY was in fact a spy, and I think it's worth noting that WWX believes that MY would probably have died under NMJ's attacks before LXC arrived if NMJ hadn't been heavily injured (ch 49). We're also told the brotherhood oath 3zun swear is unusually violent, in a way JGY suggests, and which LXC notably does not refute, was decided by NMJ (ch 50). Finally, while this summary of NMJ's interests is arguably from WWX's perspective, it is still notable that the only two things he's apparently interested in are "training his saberwork and killing Wen-dogs" (ch 49)—which is to say, the study of violence, and a particular and fatal application thereof.

(Totally unrelated fun fact: I was looking at the entrance to the Phoenix Mountain Hunt for this too and apparently NMJ is seventh on the young cultivators list (ch 69). The more you know!)

I want to be very clear that I am not saying that all of NMJ's violence is unreasonable or not understandable. But that it can be reasonable and understandable does not mean that it is not violent; and it is certainly not the only reaction a person could have to the events he's reacting to. Contrast LXC, as someone rather on the other end of the spectrum.

-If NMJ were violent, JGY wouldn't risk his life killing him via Turmoil (and therefore NMJ must not be violent)

Even aside from the extensive textual evidence for NMJ's violence, I don't think this holds together. As shown above, I think it's quite clear that NMJ was in fact always a violent man, but there is absolutely no question that he's violent to JGY in his last months of life, and if you think JGY started playing Turmoil for NMJ before the stairs, then it's really extremely clear that JGY was willing to risk NMJ's violence in killing him! I think the clash between JGY's desire to live and the evident risk to his life from killing NMJ with Turmoil actually supports the position I am arguing here. Assuming we are agreed that JGY is attached to his own life, and as it's clear that as NMJ approached his end he was a danger to JGY (regardless of how that end was induced!), why was JGY playing him Turmoil?

I think the stairs make it clear to JGY that his life is not safe while NMJ is still alive. Using Turmoil, therefore, becomes a gamble he is willing to take, though still an enormously risky one: on the one hand, it appeases his father and enables him to promise NMJ he can do whatever he likes with JGY if he doesn't kill XY in two months (ch 50), a promise he obviously and understandably has no intention of keeping. But on the other hand, if NMJ doesn't die within the two months, he probably will simply kill JGY—and more than that, given his focus on JGY, he may kill JGY anyway, for some much more trivial reason. Indeed, this is exactly what almost happens just before NMJ's death, when he kicks open a door and attempts to kill JGY on the spot because JGY was complaining to LXC about NMJ's treatment of him; if LXC hadn't blocked NMJ's sabre, JGY would almost certainly have died (ch 50). But as risky as this gamble is, it is still a better bet than waiting around and hoping LXC always saves him when NMJ tries to kill him—especially taking into account the risk from his father should he do so.

-The stairs incident was good for JGY and bad for NMJ, which is evidence that JGY arranged it on purpose

...I have a lot of things to say about this position. None of them are very nice. However, as I am in fact trying to argue in good faith, I will attempt to address it as an argument.

I think this comes from a confusion of the fandom reaction to the stairs with the in-universe reaction to it. To people now, yes, looking at this makes NMJ look bad, and inspires sympathy for JGY. In-universe, however—when NMJ publically assaults JGY and tries to kill him, when he calls him Meng Yao, when he shouts he's the son of a prostitute, it's not /NMJ/ who looks bad. NMJ of course is righteous in his anger; really he's only putting that boy in his place, don't you think? I knew Chifeng-zun didn't really accept him. Etcetera. It /weakens/ JGY's position, because the cultivation world does not have the same beliefs and priorities and value judgements that we do!

Certainly if he'd actually managed to kill JGY he would suddenly have found that he had killed JGS's beloved son, the only remaining son of the Jin, a war hero, his own sworn brother who had saved NMJ's life etc etc etc. But only because then there would have been political advantage in it for JGS, and quite substantial political advantage too, and he wouldn't have to deal with JGY being around anymore. As it stands, all NMJ's actions at the stairs do for JGY is tell the world that he is vulnerable and weak and disgusting. The only significant person in-world who would find JGY more sympathetic after this incident is LXC, and frankly a) he is already deeply in sympathy with JGY and b) we don't see JGY playing it up—after LXC's appearance at the stairs rather he minimizes and soothes things, and even when we overhear his complaints to LXC around two months later he is talking about what NMJ thinks of him, and not the physical danger NMJ poses.

I will also observe that while JGY does end up losing his temper, he starts off soothing even through NMJ's first attempted assault, and only loses it after NMJ calls him Meng Yao and says "your whole thing stopped working on me since a long time ago" in front of everyone; this attempted conciliation seems an odd thing to do were he in fact trying to manipulate NMJ into assaulting him, trying to kill him, embarrassing him and weakening his position in public. You could argue that NMJ would be more angered by JGY's attempts to be soothing than he would by JGY's directness, and thus the soothing could be read as provocative, but this simply isn't backed up by the text; while NMJ was obviously already angry before JGY lost his temper, he nevertheless escalates significantly after JGY talks back.

Moreover...I think what NMJ actually does and tries to do at the stairs, in terms of violence, is sometimes not fully grasped.

The first thing he does once they're properly outside is try to hit JGY, though fortunately JGY manages to dodge. When NMJ kicks him down the stairs, even aside from calling JGY the son of a prostitute, JGY ends up rolling down more than fifty steps and acquiring a head wound—/another/ head wound, because he already had one, apparently from the physical abuse he receives at Jinlintai from Madam Jin. And finally, NMJ actually /unsheathes his sabre/ and, after LXC approaches, announces his intention to kill JGY:

Lan XiChen, “Brother, sheath your saber first—your mind is in turmoil!”

Nie MingJue, “I am not. I know what I’m doing. He’s beyond hope. If these keeps on going, he’ll do the world harm for sure. The earlier he’s killed, the earlier we can relax!”

(ch 49)

When I say that NMJ almost killed JGY at the stairs, I am not just talking about kicking him down the stairs, although that certainly could have killed JGY. I am talking about drawing his sabre on JGY with the intention of killing him. JGY would very likely have died if LXC hadn't thought they were taking too long and come to see.

JGY can certainly take enormous risks when it's necessary—but for a risk like this he would have to be gaining something extremely significant, and I remain unconvinced he was gaining anything at all, let alone anything worth the cost.

-NMJ's actions at the stairs and his burning NHS' things are completely unrelated to any of his previous actions and motivations.

In fact, although they're certainly both significant escalations, I think that in both cases NMJ's motivations and actions draw extensively from preceding characterization.

Consider the stairs. The direct classism is certainly new, but there are several other elements that have already been established as part of NMJ's characterization: the tendency to violence, the investment in JGY behaving correctly even while ignoring incorrect behaviour around him, the approach to justice both in his particular and frequently-retributive idea of it and in his commitment to that idea, and a failure to understand the realities of JGY's position.

The violence I discussed above, and the failure to understand JGY's position has I think been discussed sufficiently elsewhere and besides would be a full post in its own right. As to NMJ's approach to justice, you can see both idea and commitment to it in his anger to the men speaking badly of MY (ch 48) and his appreciation and promotion of MY for his accomplishments (ch 48); his initial intention to kill MY after he catches him killing the Jin captain (ch 48), his subsequent insistence that MY turn himself in to the Jin (ch 48) and his intention to kill MY for his betrayal after MY tricks him and escapes (ch 48); his initial insistence that MY should pay for killing the Nie cultivators, even as he acknowledges that MY saved his life and says he will kill himself after he kills MY (ch 49); and of course in his insistence that WQ and WN should pay for their complicity with WRH, even in the face of LXC and JC's defense of them (ch 73). And in describing LWJ as "absolutely [unable to] stand wrongdoings, possibly even more than Nie HuaiSang’s brother" (ch 30), WWX implies a great deal about the extent of NMJ's inability to stand wrongdoings. Of course, not all of these instances involve NMJ seeking violent retribution as justice, but a significant portion do—about half—and it is certainly a recurring theme. This approach to justice, I should add, is certainly involved in attempting to punish JGY for his misdeeds by killing him, but it is also part of why he is so upset in the first place: in NMJ's view of things, holding XY in prison instead of executing him for his crimes is failing to see justice properly done.

The investment in JGY behaving correctly, even while caring less about the behaviour of other people around him doing the same, is likewise an established character note. WWX concludes that NMJ's desire to guide JGY is one of the main reasons he agrees to the brotherhood (ch 49); we see his disapproval of JGY associating with XY, who already has something of a bad reputation, at the Flower Banquet (ch 49); at the conference after WWX rescues the Wen, when JGY backs up his father's lie about what WWX said about JC, NMJ seems to mark it more heavily than JGS' initial lie (ch 73). And then, of course, there is this, from the scene just before JGY starts playing for NMJ (ch 49):

In reality, it wasn’t that Jin GuangYao could calm Nie MingJue’s anger, but that since Jin GuangYao came, all of Nie MingJue’s anger would be directed at him alone, having no time to scold others. Thus, there was nothing wrong with saying that he was Nie HuaiSang’s knight in shining armor.

While NMJ's actions at the stairs are certainly not something he'd have done without the sabre curse, and again the direct classism is new, it nevertheless very much ties in to his preexisting characterization.

What about the burning of NHS' things? Again, many elements of the situation derive from NMJ's preexisting characterization; in this case, his tendency to release his anger on physical objects, his desire for NHS to be a strong cultivator and his angry displeasure with NHS' actual interests and capabilities, and his threatening to burn NHS' things.

Although prior to the burning of NHS' things it seems to be usually a momentary lashing out, NMJ definitely has a history of releasing his anger on physical objects. When he is annoyed at the men speaking badly about MY, he knocks down (or carves up? the English is unclear) a boulder at the front of the cave (ch 48); when he decides not to kill MY after LXC explains MY was their spy, he carves a boulder in half (ch 49); and he cracks the top of a table by bringing his palm down on it in the scene just before JGY starts playing for him (ch 49).

As to NMJ's desire for his brother to focus on and do well at cultivation, and his displeasure at NHS' actual areas of focus, this is perhaps one of his most consistent beats of characterization. We see it in our introduction to NHS at the Cloud Recesses lectures (ch 13); in NHS' plea for WWX's help with the test (ch 14); in LXC's message to NHS from NMJ and NHS' reason for staying in CR instead of going to Caiyi Town (ch 16); in WWX's reminiscences about NHS after discussing the "Man-Eating Ridge" with the "know-it-all of Qinghe" (ch 21); in NMJ and LXC's discussion when NMJ brings LXC NHS' sabre during in Sunshot (ch 48); and of course in the scene just before JGY starts playing for NMJ, both in his initial anger at NHS' preoccupation with the fans and uncertainty about his sabre's location, and in his dismissal of NHS as a "good-for-nothing" even after his temper had faded (ch 49).

The threatening to burn NHS' things, on the other hand, I believe we only see once, and really in the form of "instructing NHS to burn certain specific things of his"; but it is in the very scene before JGY starts playing for NMJ, as NMJ tells NHS to burn the fans he has just been going over tenderly before JGY interrupts (ch 49).

Indeed, I think that scene in general is very much worth a look here, for what it has and for what it doesn't. On the one hand, we do see NHS' fear of NMJ—he literally falls to his knees in terror, and stutters even after getting up! But he also seems fairly comfortable after the worst of NMJ's anger passes, and when NMJ sends him off he goes not to his room as instructed, but to the living room for the gifts JGY has brought him. Yet many of the elements of NMJ's later destruction of NHS' things are present here, and to my mind one of the most important things about the scene is its illustration of what prevents NMJ from carrying out the threats he made in his anger. It's not that he's convinced he's being unreasonable—indeed, he doesn't seem to consciously change his mind at all. Instead it is simply that repeated interruptions and NHS's ridiculous appearance as he greets JGY end up draining his temper, and with his temper drained he no longer pursues punishing NHS. But this has obvious implications for what might happen if NMJ's anger did not diminish, and I think it's quite clear how the behaviour NMJ exhibits in this scene could lead to NMJ burning NHS' things simply by giving him a more sustained burst of temper, even as it is not something NHS ever expected to happen, or something that would happen had NMJ's temper not been worsened by the sabre curse.

To conclude this section—while NMJ's actions at the stairs and in burning NHS' things are certainly unprecedented in themselves, they are nevertheless solidly rooted in NMJ's preexisting characterization, and it's easy to see how the sabre curse could lead to these extreme escalations.

To conclude the post, I think the direct evidence is quite clear that JGY was playing Clarity before the stairs, and I think the indirect evidence also significantly supports it; nor am I convinced by various objections I have seen, for reasons I hope I have conveyed.

#more than one tag could contain #anger burned in his heart #we can't change places #long meta #and thank you very much to confusion-and-more for looking it over + their extremely helpful suggestions and revisions #this post would not be the same without them

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teawaffles · 3 years ago

Text

The Fugitives from the Fire: Chapter 5, Part 2

“Hey, madam innkeeper: where would you normally have been in the building?”

“……Since when did you get in charge of the investigation?”

As Sherlock took the lead, it seemed Gregson was displeased, but also no longer in the mood to put up a fight.

Hillary sniffed.

“I was always at the reception desk. I’m the only one managing the inn; I don’t have a single employee.”

“In that case, do you remember when these three men came to book their rooms? Or rather, at the time, had there been anyone with burns on their face?”

Sherlock was now diverting the conversation away from the case, instead attempting to verify if there were eyewitness accounts of the other fugitive. However, Gregson responded in a low voice.

“Holmes: it’s not going to work. We also tried asking her when we arrived at the scene back then, but it seems she has a strange policy of protecting her guests’ privacy, so she doesn’t check her guests’ appearances and such too closely.”

It seemed Hillary had heard him whispering, for she spoke up in defiance.

“You know, these parts are full of people with something to hide. I always make sure they pay up, but I don’t do such tactless things as staring people in the face.”

“Tactful, eh……”

Even Sherlock couldn’t stop himself; he cracked a wry grin. He didn’t know if it was an unwritten rule of the slums, but the innkeeper’s response was certainly a little too risky.

Nevertheless, at this point, there was nothing to be gained from laying blame on her. Sherlock continued.

“In that case, when the fire started, were you also at the reception?”

“That’s right. I wanted to stay there until the fire was contained, but a bunch of bobbies dragged me out at the very last moment.”

It seemed the lady possessed a truly dauntless spirit, so much so she had been willing to go down with her inn. That elicited something close to admiration within Sherlock, and he looked over the suspects.

“You mentioned ‘the very last moment’… That means you stayed at the reception until everyone had escaped?”

“Indeed: as the landlady, I have to ensure my guests are safe. Besides these guys, I definitely saw the ones from rooms 102 and 201 escape out the front door.”

“You’re indeed the epitome of a host.”

In his mind, Sherlock added this new piece of information on the guests’ rooms.

Excluding the murder victim, there had been five guests in total.

On the ground floor, rooms 101 (Jerry Dorff) and 102 had been occupied.

On the first floor, rooms 201 and 203 (Mike Myers).

Then on the second floor, room 301 (Bruno Campbell).

As he gathered the respective locations of the guests, the proprietress spoke up.

“Oh yes — earlier, everyone was talking about who had the chance to go up to the second floor, right? You’ll have to rule out Mr Jerry over there: for some reason, he immediately ran outside when the fire began. He seemed the very picture of alarm.”

“Hmm; this man, panicked?”

As far as he was concerned, people were free to run away in any manner they liked. But the gap between that and the taciturn, mysterious man before them made even Sherlock’s expression soften. It seemed Jerry had been strangely embarrassed by that reaction, deliberately clearing his throat.

Then, the detective turned to Gregson.

“Come to think of it, when you were going back upstairs, did you go past anyone? There must’ve been people rushing to escape.”

“I remember that: I passed by Bruno, Mike, and one other guest on the stairs. But is that important somehow?”

“If the killer had been among them, then he must’ve murdered the victim in the short period between the time you went downstairs to check the situation, and the time you returned to the second floor.”

Gregson groaned. “……Of course, that interval feels way too short. It didn’t even take me 30 seconds to go downstairs and back up again. So, that means……”

The locations of the suspects’ rooms. The escape route. The span of time until the victim had been murdered. Putting together all the clues they’d gathered by questioning the people involved, a single answer surfaced of its own accord.

“——It’s impossible for the killer to have gone upstairs and murdered him.”

Sherlock sounded as if he were pronouncing a judgement. Then, Gregson finally got his head around it — just like what a detective’s assistant would’ve done.

——“In that case, how did he murder the man in the room?”

“T-Then, the man in the room — how was he murdered……?”

Once again, the John in his imagination overlapped with Gregson. In theory, this ‘riddle’ had turned into something impossible to solve, and the assistant inspector was wracked with an anguish akin to agony.

However, that was a tale that only applied to ordinary people.

With his singularly transcendent powers of deduction, the consulting detective had already narrowed down two answers to this case.

Truthfully, right now, he could proceed to the solution right away. But for some reason, he didn’t want to do that. Surely, the reason why he was investigating the truth like this, was because he saw the figure of the man before him strenuously racking his brains.

As Gregson continued to despair, Sherlock Holmes placed a hand on his back.

“Gregson, do you have a moment?”

“……What do you want?”

He looked exhausted — but that was a weariness born from his own sense of responsibility, and even Sherlock refused to take a jibe at him now.

Gregson was shouldering a duty as a police inspector, so the detective resolved to use a little discretion.

“I want to talk to you outside for a bit.”

“…………”

Sherlock had said so in a serious tone, and Gregson didn’t put up a fight.

✦ ✦ ✦ ✦

Once they left the inn, an unnerving oppressiveness made their skin prickle: clearly, the locals’ anger had only intensified. Lestrade was trying his best to negotiate with and conciliate them, but it wouldn’t be long before their frustration boiled over.

Yet, even as they were caught in this race against time, Sherlock remained unhurried. On the streets to which filth clung here and there, he began to speak as if they were simply having a chat.

“First off, from the conversation earlier, we’ve eliminated the possibility that the culprit went to room 303 and killed him. As such, we have to consider a different tack.”

“A different tack?”

“What I mean is, the idea that he didn’t attack from the door — rather, the window.”

Sherlock proposed the theory he’d thought up at the start: that the man had been shot from the window. With this idea, they could break free of the ‘riddle’ created by the locked room — the murderer could kill the victim even without going all the way to the second floor.

However, Gregson shrugged in amazement, and explained in an indifferent tone.

“This might dispute the deduction you’re so proud of, but we did look into that as well. Firstly, for this method to work, there must’ve been two men in total: one to start the fire at the inn, and the other to shoot the victim from outside. But hiring another collaborator to silence an accomplice, or settle a falling-out, brings its own share of danger. In addition, in order to shoot his victim, a gunman would minimally have to be at the same height as him. There’s a brothel across the street from the inn, facing its north wall, and with three floors to boot, it fits the bill. But at the time of the murder, there’d been people on its second floor, and no one testified that they heard a gunshot. Hence, that explanation has to be rejected.”

Unusually, the inspector had discussed his view without a hint of his usual thorny attitude.

But Sherlock was adamant. “If that’s the case, then——”

——“If that’s the case, then how about something like this? Sherlock.”

His partner’s voice resounded through his mind. Now, the detective persisted in playing the role of an assistant, raising another idea to the inspector.

“From the street beside the inn, he could’ve aimed at room 303’s window and shot the victim. With that, he wouldn’t have raised suspicions among the people in the brothel.”

“……That’s rather cliché. There were officers outside the inn, so if there’d been someone with a gun outside, they would’ve arrested him long ago. Moreover, the victim collapsed a step away from the room door. If he’d been shot from the window, he would’ve lain there still. Even if he had then used the last of his strength to crawl all the way to the door, with that level of blood loss, it’d be strange that there hadn’t been a trail of blood leading from the window. As I said earlier, as far as I could tell through the keyhole, I didn’t see any marks like that.”

The inspector calmly refuted his theory, and Sherlock made the same troubled face as John always did.

——Then and there, he eliminated one of his two suppositions, and completely saw through the ‘riddle’ of this case.

“Is that so? Then I’m completely at a loss here.”

“Hmm, what’s gotten into you since earlier? ……You kept making deductions that were quite unlike you.”

Gregson had casually said something that, deep down, revealed a glimpse of his recognition of the detective’s ability. Unwittingly, Sherlock broke into a gentle smile.

But just as quickly, he replaced it with the troubled expression required of the fool he was playing. Sherlock put both hands behind his head, and looked up at the sky.

“Hey, Gregson. Somehow, we’ve been talking over and over and getting nowhere; so for a change of pace, how about a quiz?”

“Huh? You purposely brought me all the way outside, for a quiz?!”

Gregson frowned, but Sherlock continued without a care.

“Let’s say there are two children, A and B, and they’re friends. One day, the two of them play catch at a distance of about 20 steps away from one another. But although A can throw the ball to B, B can’t throw it back to A. Why is that so? In case you were wondering, the two of them have the same strength.”

“……Hmm.”

Gregson forgot about his complaints for a moment, and pondered.

“Did B sprain his shoulder?”

“In a quiz like this, that kind of reasoning’s rubbish, isn’t it?”

“There’s a wall between them.”

“Then A couldn’t have thrown the ball over.”

“……Another kid suddenly appeared and stole the ball.”

“You’re being a little careless, aren’t ya?”

It was unclear what the intention behind this quiz was, and to top it off, Sherlock had rejected every one of his answers. At last, Gregson raised his voice.

“Dammit, just tell me the answer already! Also, what’s the point of a quiz like this?!”

“Come on, now,” Sherlock parried. “I’ll give you a hint: for example, try looking at this building here.”

“Hmm……”

The detective pointed to the inn they had just stepped out of. Coincidentally, just like the one that had burnt down, this building also had three floors.

“What about it?”

“Man, you’re still as slow as ever. Look……”

Sherlock pointed to a window on the upper floors, and moved his finger between that and the window below it a few times.

Watching that action, Gregson seemed to have arrived at the answer himself.

“I see. So the children were standing on the upper and lower floors respectively, and leaning out the windows to throw the ball? Although it could be thrown from the floor above to the one below, it would be difficult to throw the ball back up in the other direction. That’s to say, the distance of 20 steps was not lengthwise, but vertical——”

Right then, as if a bolt of electricity had coursed through him, Gregson twitched. His hand shot to his chin; sinking deep into thought, he remained absolutely motionless, with only his lips piecing fragments together into clues.

“There’s only one way…… To be able to kill without going upstairs…… In that case, the position of the body…… And it ending up as a locked room…… But, such an extraordinary method –– is it even possible?”

At his final question, Sherlock grinned.

“I don’t have the foggiest idea what you just thought of…… But when you’ve eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” [1]

“………!”

Gregson looked at the detective, standing boldly where he was.

Whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

That was what he’d always maintained.

A suicide, or an accident. Pretending to be dead. Entering the room and murdering him. A sniper shot from the window. After carefully pursuing all lines of thought, in the end, only this solution remained.

In that case, it had to be the truth.

Could it be, that he’d started this entire conversation in order to guide him here……?

“……Hmph.”

At that thought, Assistant Inspector Gregson reassumed his usual, haughty attitude: the manner of a police inspector who saw the detective as his enemy.

“Let’s go, Holmes. I’ll tell you what I’ve deduced.”

——This is my case.

As Gregson strode away triumphantly, Sherlock chuckled.

T/N: Sherlock has grown so much..! (my /heart/)

Footnotes:

[1] A quote from Chapter 6 of the Sherlock Holmes novel The Sign of the Four, by Arthur Conan Doyle. (Wikipedia)

#moriarty the patriot #yuukoku no moriarty #yuumori #english translation #the girl who sees rainbows

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slashbitch2 · 3 years ago

Text

Extra Complications PT3

Previous Chapter

"Don't bother coming back into work tomorrow."

Her words had been replaying in your mind since the final encounter, bouncing round like a taunting echo. It'd only been a week since you'd stopped working at Alchemex, yet had felt like a lifetime of boredom and fatigue. With no job or persistent villain to chase after, if you could even call Liv a villain anymore, there was no reason to get out of bed in the morning, nothing to stop you from moping around your apartment. The days blended into what felt like one long sick day, disregarding the occasional break to rescue a cat stuck in a tree.

Although, your only sickness was of the mind. Whenever you attempted to get some rest, your thoughts would inevitably drift to Liv; the cold, distanced tone to her voice, the look of betrayal in her eyes, how empty the week had felt without her. By the third night plagued with insomnia, you were starting to accept that your feelings towards her may be more than a simple crush. On the eighth night, you decided you ought to do something about it and began to formulate a plan.

Entering the building like you were still an employee would be almost impossible since anyone who left their job was rarely welcomed back with open arms. It'd also be better to avoid the security and CCTV cameras, which you'd learnt used face recognition technology. And finally, locating a security card would pose a potential problem, as walking round the facility until you happened to stumble across a janitor to steal from was unfortunately no longer a possibility. So, what was the solution to all your problems? Vents.

Which is how you found yourself scouring over blueprints like a cliched protagonist from a bygone age movie, but at least the irony hadn't escaped you, and thankfully laboratories generally required a great deal of ventilation, so you had multiple routes memorised by the time the bus had arrived at Alchemex. You'd spent the entire journey on edge, fearful that any fellow passenger might accost you for looking so suspicious. But apparently an agitated figure buried beneath a pile of blueprints wearing a spider-suit underneath a jumper was normal enough to be ignored.

Nonetheless, stepping onto the concrete ground of the car park was a relief which inspired a tad more optimism. Moreover, leaving the burdening stacks of blueprints behind further alleviated some of your anxiety. It felt like a final confirmation that this was your one and only chance, and you weren't about to mess it up. Even as the building loomed over you casting a shadow of uncertainty, nothing could discourage your determination.

There was the remarkable sense that you didn't belong here, though it was a familiar sensation. One that persuaded you to tug the mask over your head before darting toward the edge of the car park. It was your belief that as long as you stuck to the outskirts of the facility, few would pay you any attention while you were out in the open. Therefore allowing you to manoeuvre into position and take the quickest passage straight to Liv's office. Which is exactly what you did.

The first stretch of the vent system was a straight drop, a narrow plunge that went on for longer than anticipated. Like a slide with no angle of inclination and a lot less fun. You hit the metal base with an ungraceful clang, certain that your legs would've buckled upon impact had it not been for the lack of space to do so. Overall an uncomfortable start. The remainder of the journey was a lot of crawling and muscle cramps, your only incentive being the occasional grate to peer down which reassured you that your destination was drawing nearer. Everything was going to plan.

Until you heard her.

Olivia's voice rung clear as if from a dream. It stood out from the general ruckus, initially leading you to believe you were hallucinating, that it was some kind of audible mirage. Yet you refocused your senses and it didn't go away. She was almost directly below you, separated simply by a thin layer of metal. With renewed ambition, you crawled toward the nearest grate as quickly and quietly as possible, frantically lowering your head to find the perfect angle, all just to catch a glimpse of her.

"What do you mean the program hasn't worked?" Liv pinched the bridge of her nose, her words laced with an an uncharacteristic anger. You'd never known her to be an irritable person, she loved her job and every challenge that came with it. Was she uptight? Sure. Passionate? Undeniably. But never angry.

"I've tried rerunning and rewriting parts of the code. And it just doesn't work!" Some poor employee (Mark, if you remembered correctly) was fighting for his dignity below. You could see he was flushing, wildly flailing his hands around as he tried to justify his mistake.

"You've rewritten part of it?!" She repeated, volume rising in frustration.

"I- I thought I knew how to fix it."

"I told you not to mess with my work." She growled, stepping closer.

"With all due respect," He didn't back down, clearly caught off guard and unsure how to deal with an irritated Liv. "it's actually Y/N's work."

Upon hearing your name, you ducked out of view as if you'd been seen. Although, it was evident that this was not the case, so slowly you edged forward to peer down at them once more.

Liv's face had dropped at the mention of your name. But by the time you'd settled back in place, anger was already seeping into her expression, then was suddenly smoothed into disturbingly sweet smile. "Well, Y/N isn't here anymore. So I suggest you keep your incompetent hands off of things you don't understand."

Judging by her vague wording, you guessed she hadn't told anyone the real reason you'd been fired. A fond appreciation flooded your mind. Despite everything that had happened, she still respected your secret enough to keep it. You begun to consider that maybe Liv cared about you as much as you did her. Why else would she lie on your behalf?

Mark muttered an ashamed. "Ok." Then left to try and atone for his mistake.

Liv stayed where she was for another minute before taking a deep breath, shaking off her annoyance, and setting a determined path. You assumed she was heading for her office and were about to follow, but then paused. Was this really the best time for a reunion? She obviously wasn't in the best mood, and if you had to guess, it was likely due to your betrayal. Was it too soon to reappear in her life? You'd arrived here with the intention to apologise and make amends, however, you had no idea how Liv would react or what would happen after. If there would even be an after. She could attack you on first sight for all you knew.

No. You'd come too far to turn around now. You continued along the vent before you could overthink the decision. It would be foolish to turn around now: the end was in sight, and rapidly growing closer.

Reaching the final grate, you were greeted with the familiar yet new aerial view of Liv's office. It'd remained mainly the same since your departure. She hadn't even bothered to remove your lab coat, which was still carelessly thrown over the chair you'd frequented everyday. And Liv herself hadn't changed much either, disregarding the seemingly permanent anger lines upon her face. She was sitting at her desk, head in hand, mindlessly flipping through a folder. It occurred to you at that moment that she didn't look irritated, rather sad. Another unexpected emotion for her to display.

After a minute, she sighed, tossing the papers to one side and bringing her other hand up to crash forward into. She looked defeated, seeing her this way felt wrong. You honestly preferred the anger because it showed she'd maintained at least some of her usual intensity.

You sighed. It was time to fix this. With unsteady hands you delicately unscrewed the bolts holding the grate in place, careful to make as little noise as possible. It was as you were removing the final screw that you realised something: you had no idea what to say to her. No planned speech or prepared apology, you'd resigned to hoping for a spontaneous burst of thoughtfulness in the moment. You sat there for a minute, fidgeting with one of the screws while attempting to come up with what you would say. Should you start by apologising for breaking in, or for lying to her, or for applying to the job in the first place? You had a lot of things to apologise for.

And unfortunately, the chance to think it through any further was taken from you as the screw slipped out of your hand. You gasped watching it fall, hitting the ground with an faint thud. Although quiet enough for most people to ignore, you knew Liv was too thorough to not investigate. And as expected, following your sharp intake of breath was the sound of a chair scraping against the floor, then footsteps gradually approaching.

Liv appeared below you, bending down to inspect the screw before glancing up. Her eyes locked with yours through the mask and widened in shock.

"Hey." The casual tone to your voice sounded forced and you grimaced. But rather than dwelling on it, you dropped from the exposed hiding place and pulled off your mask. You smiled awkwardly, eyes scanning and overanalysing her reaction.

Liv stepped back to lean on the desk for support. Her mouth was agape, but otherwise her face was worryingly blank.

"If this is a bad time I can come back later."

Still no response. The room was drowning in a tense silence.

"Well, actually I probably can't come back." With no social cues to interact with, you began to ramble aimlessly. "I'm guessing you'll find a way to patch that particular security breach." You gestured up to the gap in the ceiling and laughed lightly. "Sorry about that. I didn't know how else to-"

You're cut off as Liv moves impossibly fast, grabbing your shoulders and shoving you backwards against the wall. A thousand different thoughts run through your mind at once, all wondering what she's about to do. The majority are focused on the possibility that she's going to hurt you in some way, although, even if she did have the intention to cause harm, you wouldn't fight back. You were tired of conflict, especially when it involved Liv.

She was standing close, breathing heavily and saying nothing. You couldn't help but let your eyes flicker down to her lips, the temptation to kiss her becoming increasingly vehement. So instead you forced your attention up to her eyes, which held an air of confusion.

"What are you doing here?" Her voice was deep, full of unvoiced emotions.

You licked your lips, glancing at her mouth one last time. "I came here to apologise. I didn't mean for any of this to go so far."

"You're lying." She backed away slightly and you immediately missed the proximity.

"I'm not! I just-" You stuttered, then admitted in a quieter voice. "I never meant to hurt you."

She inhaled shakily and swallowed, your eyes tracing the movement of her throat. "And?"

"And because I care about you too much to let you think I did any of this on purpose." You lowered your head, her invasive glare becoming overwhelming.

Soft fingers firmly gripped your chin, compelling you to look up. Her eyes displayed distrust, confusion which you suddenly feel the need to wipe away. You wanted to make your affection for her clear, but found yourself annoyingly speechless. All the recurring thoughts and confined confessions that had been plaguing you for a week suddenly gone from your mind. You were infuriatingly at a loss for words. Although, the warmth of her fingers against your skin reminded you that actions speak louder than words.

You leant in slowly, giving her sufficient time to stop you. She didn't move so you kissed her lightly at first, searingly next. Your arm shifted to wrap around her back tentatively and she moaned faintly in response. Although, it wasn't until you allowed her to take control that any remaining anger dissipated. At that point the kiss became bruising, her hold on you tightening as a wave of shared desperation rolled over the both of you. Before the desperation could reach its peak, however, you separated from her.

Liv was almost panting, her cheeks tinged pink and hair a mess. She promptly attempted to kiss you again, though you dodged the advance and she whined. Her mouth latched onto your neck, sucking at the skin there.

Your head fell back against the wall, dizzy from lust. "Does this mean I can have my job back?" You quipped, running a hand through your hair.

"Depends." She murmured in between kisses. "Do you have anymore secrets?"

"None that I can think of." You smiled, the prospect of returning to what you'd come to consider as normality was an appealing one. Of course there were things you would need to work through with Liv, and many, many extra complications alongside having a relationship with your boss. But nothing easy was ever worthwhile, and Liv was living proof of that.

"Alright. You're hired."

#olivia octavius x reader

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rjhpandapaws · 3 years ago

Note

Congrats on the 160 followers!

For your ask event, could I please give you the prompt of “Firsts”? More specifically “First fight”.

I’m thinking canon-verse, established relationship Reed900 with Gavin not realising that his strong, resilient boyfriend actually needs a lot more attention and affection than he lets on. The cause of the fight could be anything, maybe a forgotten anniversary, but I wanna see a fluffy fluffy reconciliation in your trademark writing style!

Thanks Panda!!!❤️❤️❤️

//thank you Maya!!! Also I live this idea

Gavin was many things, but emotionally aware was not one of them. Which was in his humble opinion why he and Nines worked so well, being with Nines didn’t require that much emotional investment. Or so he had thought anyway. He didn’t really notice Nines pulling away from him until he was nearly gone, though now that he was looking back he could see some of the steps that were taken. As they said hindsight was twenty-twenty; but that wasn’t going to help him fix his relationship. Knowing that he was wrong wasn’t going to keep him from losing the best thing that had ever happened to him. It started out slowly enough, Nines started spending fewer nights at Gavin’s apartment, they didn’t live together so that wasn’t entirely unusual. Sometimes Nines needed time to himself, emotions were new to him and they could be overwhelming at times. Or that was what Gavin told himself, his boyfriend was bullet proof and nearly indestructible so it was hard to imagine anything else being wrong. Nines hadn’t been designed to feel anything so it was easy to convince himself that Nines only needed space to process. Then the coffees had stopped. Richard expressed himself largely through actions, and he expressed affection specifically through gifts, in Gavin’s case coffee. There was a stretch of weeks where the coffees were few and far between, but that was because they were working a big case and there just wasn’t time, though by the time the case had been closed they had stopped all together. Which Gavin hadn’t noticed until then because he was only human and could only put all of his focus on one thing at a time; and the maybe issue with Nines was not the thing that needed his attention at the time. It would pass, Nines just needed space.

Connor had been the last straw. It wasn’t that he thought Nines was cheating, he knew better than that. The reason Connor was the last straw was because of how Connor saw Nines. Nines was his little brother despite being the bigger and arguably more powerful of the two; Connor had been around longer and knew a little more about how things worked. Moreover Connor had loved, he knew what it was supposed to look like. Gavin didn’t particularly want to be on the bad side of someone made to get away with crimes. Either of them actually, though he feared Connor more than Nines. Nines looked the part, Connor did not, and there would have been people who argued that Gavin deserved it. So he needed to fix this before it got to that point. Easier said than done because Nines was actively avoiding him, which Gavin was sort of impressed by considering as they were partners. He would disappear at the end of their shift without giving Gavin a chance to say anything. It was getting frustrating. How was he supposed to fix things when he wasn’t being given a chance to learn what was wrong. That would change soon though. Things came to a head on a Friday afternoon. They were in Gavin’s car riding back from a scene when he couldn’t hold his tongue anymore. “Can you tell me what I did at least?” He asked, taking his eyes off the road long enough to glance at Nines, “If you’re going to avoid me.” “I’m not avoiding you.” Came the calculated reply, “I am putting as much effort into this relationship as you are.” Gavin wanted to call bullshit, “What do you mean?”

“I always come to you when we are together. I bring you coffee when we’re at the station.” He replied and there was anger at the very edge of his voice and something else, “But I get nothing back. I pull away and you can’t be bothered to check until Connor and I put in to swap partners.” “You what?” Gavin snapped, that shouldn’t have been what caught him and he knew it, “You’re going to work with Hank? Nines, what the hell?” “I don’t see another option Gavin. Clearly you want space and this seems the best way to handle that.” Nines replied, his voice back to level, “And I need time to reevaluate things apparently because I thought we were on the same page.” Gavin would have stared at him if he weren’t driving. Getting in a car accident didn’t seem like a good way to break the tension, “What is it exactly that made you think I wanted space? You have a multi-million dollar brain so what made it jump to that conclusion out of all of them.” “Your emotional distance for one thing. Humans are meant to feel things and unless you’re mad there usually isn’t anything.” Nines explained, “The fact that it has taken you four months to realize something is wrong despite my trying to bring it up several times. Out of all the things that should have upset you, what got a reaction out of you is that I would rather shadow the Lieutenant than be ignored.” Gavin sighed as they pulled into the station. “Then go.” He said, he didn’t know what he was supposed to do and there was no point in keeping Nines if he didn’t want to stay, “I clearly can’t make you happy so find someone who will.” He heard a computerized something come from Nines followed by a burst of static, and then he was gone. The echo of the car door closing sounded almost like a judge’s gavel coming down. Gavin couldn’t shake the feeling that he had made a mistake.

As much as Gavin hated the saying that you didn’t know what you had until it was gone, he found it was true. After months of working, if it could be called that, with Connor, he missed Nines. There was more to it than that as well. He spent a lot of time watching Nines, and he noticed that he wasn’t nearly as emotionally flat as Gavin had believed him to be. He wasn’t as expressive as Connor, but he showed what he was in small ways. Or perhaps Gavin was just seeing this now because he and Hank treated their partners so differently. As much as he and Hank had their personal differences and opinions, Gavin would be one of the first to admit that Hank was more kind to the people he worked with than Gavin was. Perhaps it was his general disposition, or maybe because Hank had multiple partners over his career and that made him easier to work with. Where given his prickly nature Gavin tended to work on his own and didn’t handle team work well. Though the one nice thing about this was he was learning from a distance how to handle Nines. While Gavin wasn’t a nurturer by nature in the way that Hank was, or at all really, it was nice to learn that was what Nines responded the most to. It made sense in a way as well since that was the same way that he took care of others. Hank would bring him a pouch of thirium or a cup of something to sample whenever he got up to get coffee; the same thing he had seen him do with Connor. He made an effort to learn about Nines and make conversation with him, which Gavin tried as well, but he wasn’t all that chatty unless he was drunk so that wasn’t on the table. He knew now, in a sense, what to do to try and fix this.

It took him longer than he would have liked, and a significant amount of pushing from Connor before Gavin was ready to confront his mistake. Nines had seemed so happy without him, so it was easy for him to believe that it was better like this; for Nines at least. Connor agreed to help him so that week Gavin got himself mentally prepared and made plans for the end of the week on how he was going to do this. He was going to fox this, or at least apologize if Nines was already moved on. Here was the thing about having plans and anxiety, time became a myth and the day you were fearing came after what felt like a thirty minute nap. Friday was there before Gavin had psyched himself up enough, but he couldn’t back out because he was pretty sure Connor would come after him if he did. His plan started with a small detour before work. He stopped at a cafe that he learned Nines liked and ordered something for him, he could make coffee for himself at the station. When he got back to the car he put the sticky note that he rewrote at least a hundred times on the lid and drove to the station. He hoped this wasn’t too cheesy, but Nines liked solving mysteries so Gavin was praying this would work. He set the cup on Nines’s desk as he walked to his own. Nines either wasn’t in yet or busy which made things easier on Gavin, he wasn’t sure he could explain himself if he had been asked. It was a matter of courage as well as the plan was entirely contingent on the first sticky note working. Connor had agreed to set the rest of them up, mostly because he didn’t want Gavin to chicken out which was an entirely valid point. As often as he stuck to his guns when it came to his opinions and getting into fights, when it came to personal matters he was much less bold. This was important though so he was going to stick to it. He spent more time staring at Nines’s desk than he did working, even after Nines had come back. Luck had him missing Nines studying the cup, but he did see him put the sticky note on his monitor which he hoped was a good thing.

His plan started with a scavenger hunt that brought Nines to the places that meant the most to the two of them and places he had known Nines to find privately special for reasons Gavin wasn’t privy to. Each place had a sticky note with a clue, he had asked Connor to come up with a code for it, something that Nines would have to work at a little to solve. He would have done it on his own, but Nines had a powerful mind and Gavin didn’t so it only seemed fair that he level he playing field a little. He didn’t know the system Connor had used but he did know the answer. He wanted this to work, but even if it didn’t he hoped Nines would enjoy himself while he did it. The day passed slowly for Gavin because of his worry. He didn’t feel like he got all that much done which was unusual. Going back to the apartment seemed daunting as he made his way to his car, there would be one of two results when he got back and he wasn’t sure he was ready to face either one. The best option meant putting in consious effort into being more aware of what Nines needed from him, and the worst one meant he had done too little too late. He was tempted to detour but didn’t, because not having an answer was almost worse. He was distracted on the drive home and made his way back on autopilot. He parked and took a moment to gather himself, he would get an answer tonight. He needed to focus on that rather than what the answer would be. This awkward uncomfortable thing would be ending today, either in a second chance or closure, but it was ending today. That was Gavin’s silver lining.

There wasn’t anyone outside of his apartment when he got up to it. He ignored the ache in his chest in favor of hoping Nines was only late. Connor had made the code so it probably wasn’t easy, it would take time. He turned his key in the lock and opened the door, instead of being greeted by his cat he was met with dim lighting and music. In the middle of it stood Nines. Gavin probably would have cried if he could get his emotions in order. “You came....” Was what he managed instead, breathed above a whisper and carrying the weight of all of the things he was feeling. He let the door fall shut behind him as he tried to gather himself. “Of course I did.” Nines replied as he made his way closer, “I learned what I put you through today, and I only thought it would be fitting to put as much effort into my apology as you did yours. That’s what you do when you love someone.” That broke Gavin and this time the tears came unbidden. He hugged Nines and buried his face in his chest, this wasn’t something he had expected. All those months he assumed Nines to be better off, happy even, without him there. He hadn’t known he was hurting. He didn’t have the words to express as much, and it didn’t seem that he needed to. Nines closed his arms around Gavin and ran his fingers through his hair. He made a sound that seemed more contemplative than comforting, but Gavin figured he was trying his best.

“You were so quiet that day Gavin. I expected more of a fight from you, but you just pulled away.” Nines said after a moment, there was remorse in his words, “I didn’t know then that it was because you were hurting. I thought you had just given up. I was so upset I didn’t go into stasis for days.” He paused for a moment, “Hank explained things to me, how humans react when they’re hurt and I realized how I had messed up, but I didn’t know how to fix it. You got to that first. I want you to know that I love you and I never stopped, and I don’t plan to.”

@asset35-maya

(Prompt from this list)

#Canonverse 'short'#reed900 #dbh gavin #dbh nines #dbh fic #dbh #160 follower ask event!#ask panda #panda has all the answers!

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