#and I recognise that 'fandom' in the meaning of 'the community of fans' has always included people in 'the audience'

[honestlyvan]

The easiest way to wrap your head around this is to consider that "fandom" is a discrete subculture that a subset of the entire fan base of a work.

Fandom is not a creator fanclub or a creator support network or a creator advertisement platform. Creators interacting with the fandom directly is a very new development brought about by the general erosion of communal boundaries. (This part also includes fans taking the fruits of fandom to the creator's table. Stop tweeting fanart at creators, they can find it themselves if they really want to.)

Literally the only thing that stops a creator from being a problem for the fandom is the maturity and understanding of the subculture. For every creator that is delighted by their fandom, there is always going to be one who hates you on principle for not reading their work exactly as they wanted you to read it, not interacting with it in the way they intended, whether it's as banal as liking the wrong characters or as complicated as writing the wrong kind of fanfic, and whether or not this becomes a fight depends entirely on whether they see it as their right to tell us about it and start that fight.

The more involved in fandom that creators get, the more pressure there is to bring fandom in line with the intended or the desired fan base. There more there is pressure to bring it in line with what is profitable, with what is marketable. Creators interacting with fandom have a direct profit incentive to do so, whether they're aware of it or not. (You'll note that this part is also relevant to what kind of fanworks creators encourage.)

Fandom is not for creators. Fandom has never been for creators. The relationship between creators and fandom is not hierarchical, and it's not mutual. Carve these words in your heart.

Once again, creators and artists trying to ban fans from shipping certain characters/making NSFW content/etc never actually stops fans from doing those things, it just makes them resent the creator in question and be far less willing to directly support and interact with both the creator and their works 💕

People still talk shit about Anne Rice and she's dead. Don't be the next person to be compleely disavowed by your fandom.

[saintsenara]

Thoughts on Ron and Hermione as a ship?

thank you very much for the ask, @thesilverstarling!

i’ll state my position straight away: book ron and hermione are the best of the canon couples.

they will have a long and extremely happy marriage made rich by great and stalwart love, lust, fun, and faithfulness, rather than held together by duty and couples’ therapy like so many readers and authors (including jkr, who seems to have decided to spend the years since the conclusion of the series failing to understand anything about her own characters) tend to think.

i will state another position straight away: lest i seem like i’m just a fan with blinkers on, i think this even though hermione is, by far, my least favourite member of the trio. if she were real i would detest her, and i dislike how she is treated by the narrative as always justified in her negative characteristics. i like fanon hermione - perfect and preternaturally good - even less.

as a result, i think that it’s ridiculous that jkr has said that she thought ron needed to ‘become worthy’ of hermione. they belong together as equals - which is what they’re set up in the narrative as being from the off - and i hate seeing that undermined.

because ronald weasley? he’s an icon. and he doesn’t get anywhere near the respect he deserves in fandom.

there are multiple reasons for this - ron’s narrative purpose is to be the everyman sidekick, and so he is able to be less special than harry or hermione (the helper-figure); the amount of aristocracy wank in this fandom means that the weasleys’ ordinariness is less appealing to writers than making harry have twenty different lordships and call himself hadrian; the narrative interrogates ron’s flaws - especially his capacity for jealousy - much more intensively than it interrogates either hermione’s (cruel, inflexible, meddling) or harry’s (reckless, self-absorbed, judgemental) - but one i feel is particularly significant is that ron is such a british character that many of his traits are not understood as intended by non-british readers.

in particular - as is outlined in this excellent meta by @whinlatter - ron’s sense of humour isn’t indicative of immaturity or a lack of seriousness, but is, in fact, evidence that he’s the most emotionally aware of the trio.

ron is shown throughout the series to understand how both harry and hermione need to have their emotions approached - and i think there is no piece of writing which says this better than crocodile heart by @floreatcastellumposts:

That was what she liked most about Ron, she thought vaguely. He was very good at being suitably outraged on your behalf. For Harry, for her, for Neville. That sort of thing mattered, when you were hurt or embarrassed or wronged in some way. You needed to have someone else on your side, to be as emotional as you felt, maybe even more so, so that you might feel a bit more normal. It was very decent of him, and she was not sure he realised he did it.

ron’s inherent emotional awareness is an enormous source of comfort to other people. he does the work which isn’t flashy or special - he makes tea and tells jokes and is just there - but which is needed in healthy human relationships far more frequently than a willingness to fight to the death for the other person.

[as an aside, this normality - even though i think it is assumed rather than justified by the text - is also what ginny provides for harry. if you believe that hinny are a good couple but romione aren’t… i can’t help you.]

but let’s look at some specific reasons why ron and hermione belong together:

their communication styles mesh perfectly. ron is the only person hermione knows who feeds her love of being challenged and debated, and who is able to engage in this way of communicating without becoming irate when she refuses to back down. ron is good at picking his battles, but he’s also good at recognising that hermione’s tendency to argue isn’t intended to be confrontational a lot of the time - it’s just the way she works through feelings and problems. he’s far more easy-going about her tendency to nag, interrupt, try to provoke arguments, or speak condescendingly than he’s given credit for - and hermione evidently respects this, since when he does tell her not to push a situation (above all, when she’s trying to needle harry into talking about sirius), she listens to him.

that ron and hermione’s tendency to bicker is taken by fans to be a bad thing is because it’s something harry - from whose perspective the narrative is written - doesn’t understand. harry is extremely conflict-avoidant - he tends to take being pushed on views and opinions he has to be insulting; and he has a tendency to assume that he is right which is just as profound as hermione’s. he and ginny communicate not by debating, but by ginny having no time for his rigidity and refusing to indulge it - but ron and hermione bickering about everything is not a negative thing within their specific emotional dynamic.

[as another aside, this glaring chasm in communication styles is why harry and hermione would be a disaster as a couple.]

they each provide validation the other needs. it’s clear - reading between the lines - that hermione is a tremendously lonely person. the friendlessness of her initial few weeks at hogwarts seems to be a continuation of her experience as a child, and - outside of ron and harry - that friendlessness endures through her schooldays. i’m always struck, for example, by the fact that, when she falls out with ron in prisoner of azkaban, she has no-one else to spend time with, and that this is only avoided in half-blood prince because harry decides not to freeze her out. i don’t think her friendship with ginny is anywhere near as close as fanon seems to imply (ginny has no interest in being nagged either), nor do i think that she’s anywhere near as close to neville (not least because she is so condescending to him) as she’s often written to be.

and this loneliness seems to stretch beyond hogwarts. the absence of hermione’s parents’ from the narrative is - in a doylist sense - clearly just a device to maximise time with the trio all together, but the watsonian reading is that she doesn’t have a particularly good relationship with them. hermione’s obviously upper-middle-class background - the name! the skiing! the holidays in the south of france! - can be presumed, i think, to come with a series of expectations from her parents which she feels constantly that she’s not entirely meeting, particularly expectations attached to academic success.

[for example, the grangers - were she a muggle child - would undoubtedly have ambitions for her to attend an elite university and then go into a prestigious career. tertiary education of the type that they’re familiar with doesn’t seem to exist in the wizarding world - most careers seem to be taught by apprenticeship - and this, alongside all the other divides between the magical and muggle worlds which contribute to the distance between them, would be one very obvious area in which she felt the need to prove herself to them.]

ron, too, has quite a difficult relationship with his position in the family - voldemort’s locket is not wrong to point out that he seems to receive considerably less of his mother’s emotional attention than ginny or the rest of his brothers - and he too is constrained by expectations which he doesn’t know how to explain he has no interest in - above all, molly’s desire for her sons to achieve top grades and go into the ministry.

he also suffers while at hogwarts from being ‘harry potter’s best friend’, something which harry never appreciates. but hermione does. she recognises ron’s jealousy and never allows harry to minimise it (and she and ron are very much aligned on having no respect for harry’s saviour and martyr complexes). she appreciates ron’s strengths - above all his kindness and his sense of humour - and makes him feel as though he’s achieved things with them. and ron does the same for her; he is hugely observant when it comes to her, and he challenges and defends her.

the two of them clearly spend a lot of time together one-on-one while harry’s involved in his various shenanigans (including outside of school - hermione has often arrived at the burrow days or even weeks before harry, and they seem to write to each other frequently when apart). they do this within a relationship which is fundamentally equal. one issue with hinny is that, post-war, harry is going to have to get used to seeing ginny as a peer, rather than as someone he has to protect. but ron and hermione never have that issue - equality is baked into their relationship from the off.

because, to be quite frank, fandom overstates the role that jealousy plays in their relationship. it’s true that ron certainly doesn’t acquit himself brilliantly when it comes to hermione’s relationship with viktor krum (it’s because he’s bi and doesn’t know it yet), and a tendency to externalise his insecurity into trying to make others also feel insecure is one of his primary negative traits (hermione does this too, via her patented lofty voice when she’s trying to condescend to people). but this is often taken as the initial red flag for how the relationship would crash and burn, and ron’s toxic jealousy is often used in fan-fiction as the trigger for emotional and physical violence towards hermione which, frequently, seems to drive her into the arms of either draco malfoy or severus snape… who are, of course, the first people we think of when we hear the words ‘not prone to jealousy’...

but i think it’s important to point out several things in defence of ron’s jealousy over krum. firstly, hermione evidently regards his jealousy as ridiculous - she’s upset by it, yes, but her upset must be understood as being caused by the fact that she wanted him to ask her out. she doesn’t think he’s being possessive, she thinks he’s being stupid. secondly, hermione is equally as jealous over ron’s crush on fleur delacour and relationship with lavender brown. she behaves just as cruelly when it comes to lavender as ron does when it comes to krum - and the narrative only treats her actions as more sympathetic or justified both because harry dislikes lavender too, and because, by that point in the series, jkr has dispensed with any inclination to ever criticise her.

but, outside of this teenage pettiness, ron is never jealous of hermione over things which matter. he is never jealous of her intelligence or competence or ambition or success (indeed, he defends her constantly from attacks designed to undermine her in these areas). for someone who struggles with being overshadowed by harry, he is never upset at being overshadowed by her. he is clearly going to be happy to support her in any of the career ambitions she can be written as having post-war.

and, on this point, i think it’s worth interrogating why so many readers still seem to feel uncomfortable with the idea of ron and hermione having a dynamic where she is the more ‘powerful’ one. [it’s always a bit trite to say ‘but what if the genders were reversed?’, but actually that’s not irrelevant here]. if hermione ends up taking the ministry by storm and ron becomes a stay-at-home father or has a job which is just to pay the bills, what, precisely, is wrong with that? why, precisely, should hermione regard ron making that choice for himself as a negative thing? hermione so often seems to leave ron in fan-fiction because of a lack of ambition - something which seems to be particularly common in dramione - but, in canon, she is shown to not particularly care if ron and harry do the bare minimum when it comes to studying etc. she nags them to do their work so they don’t get in trouble. she doesn’t nag them to do it to the same standard that she would.

and, actually, i think that ron being less ambitious than hermione is something which is key to how well they work. because ron provides not only emotional support, but emotional clarity.

hermione is shown throughout canon to - just as harry does - have a tendency to become obsessive to the detriment of her own health. she is also often - as harry is - emotionally or intellectually inflexible, and finds it hard to move on when what she feels or believes is proven to be wrong. both she and harry are micro-thinkers, who lean towards knee-jerk assumptions and stubborn convictions (and, indeed, hermione has a remarkably hagrid-ish tendency towards blind loyalty).

ron is none of these things. ron is a big-picture thinker (it’s why he’s so good at chess). he’s a pragmatist. he’s the least righteous of the three. he understands that faith and loyalty are choices, and that sometimes these choices will lead to outcomes which are bad or hard. he is the one of the three most willing to own up to having made mistakes. he is the one least likely to act on gut instinct (and, therefore, the hardest to fool - i think it’s worth emphasising that he clocks that tom riddle is tricking harry immediately, the only one of the trio to do so). he understands that things are a marathon, not a sprint. he is the least obsessive.

and these traits contribute to aspects of his character which are underappreciated. ron worries about hermione making herself ill during exams, or when she is using the time-turner, and makes an effort to get her to set healthy boundaries and redirect her anxiety. ron stands on a broken leg in front of sirius or goes into the forest to fight aragog not out of righteousness, but out of choice. ron takes over the burden of preparing buckbeak’s defence when it is clear that hermione is approaching burnout. ron is completely right that harry hasn’t done any long-term planning for the horcrux hunt, and his anger does force harry to tighten up after he leaves the trio. ron has a clear head in the middle of battle. ron makes harry and hermione laugh. ron is unafraid of human emotion. ron arrests harry’s tendency to brood over the little things by looking at the bigger picture. ron will always come back.

ron is bringing his politician wife regular cups of tea and making sure she doesn’t work all night. he is helping his lawyer wife to feel less upset over losing one case by reminding her that she’s won ten others. he is noticing stress creeping in and whirling her off for a dirty weekend, or even just a takeaway on the sofa. he is teaching his daughter to be proud of her ambition and his son to treat women as equals and both of his children that all you can do when you fuck up is apologise and try to do better. he is making hermione smile on the worst days of her life. he is helping her strategise her long-term goals when she gets stuck on the short-term ones. he is telling her straight when she needs to get it together. he is seeing a misogynistic head of department call hermione a ‘silly little girl’ and choosing to tell him exactly what he thinks of that.

ron is the ultimate wife guy. hermione is a very, very lucky lady.

[ariddletobesolved]

of preferences and headcanons.

Hi! I know I haven't posted real content in over a year, but since I've been on Tumblr the past week, I can't help but notice a discourse happening on Helsa tag.

I believe as a community, we should all respect other people's takes and opinions, especially in a fandom, where everyone may perceive things differently. Everyone has their own preferences that not everyone could get or understand, and that is okay. For example, and also to address the elephant in the room, if you prefer a ship (in this case, Helsa) to not be canon, it's totally fine. And if you would love for it to be canon, then that is fine too. It's not okay when you try to tell people how they must feel towards a certain media (in this case, Frozen) and tell fellow shippers they're not a true shipper just because they don't share the same preferences as you do. Stating an opinion of your preference is not the same as telling others to change that preference to suit the one that you like.

"I would prefer to not have them to be canon."

"If you're a true fan, you would have done THIS instead!"

See how different those two sentences are? The first one is neutral, while the other one is more demanding.

Honestly, I want to respect both, but I believe respect is earned and not given, and if the person is being disrespectful then I will return the disrespect back to their faces. Treat people the way you want be treated, remember?

I've been in between fandoms for over a decade, so I've come across discourses over headcanons and preferences plenty of time. Here's a reminder: Be respectful! It's not hard if you recognise that everyone perceive things differently and that the world doesn't revolve around you and your opinions only. You can always agree to disagree.

Being respectful also means being respectful to fanartists and fanwriters. Have some decency and refrain from using someone else's works without their permission (it's not hard to ask!). Just because you found it on Google does not mean it's public domain. As for appreciating fanwriters, you can start by reading what you want to read. You can start by filtering keywords and tropes or genres that you don't like. AO3 has a tagging system for a reason. If you don't pay attention to the tags, don't blame the writer for writing what they want to write and not how you want it. They create contents for free and you are not the boss of them. If you want something that specifically suits your taste buds, you can commission them.

Learn how to differentiate between what's canon and what's your own headcanon and interpretations, what's canon and what's a mere concept. Maybe you're reading too much into it, maybe it's in your head. Headcanons are fun, being delulu is literally my middle name, but not everything that you perceive is canon. You can disregard canon (like I do, most of the time) but you have to be clear about it, and draw a hard line to separate them, label them with 'canon divergence' or 'canon compliance' (you can look up each definition). A concept that did not make into the final product can hardly be considered canon.

This fandom community is supposed to be a safe space for everyone regardless their reason in shipping Helsa (be it because of their appealing aesthetics or others) as long as they're being respectful to each other. I didn't think I would be here writing all these to address the bad apples. Sure, the bad apples are always there in every community, but when these bad apples are the loud majority, I feel like I have to say something to clear up some misconceptions about this fandom. Helsa fandom isn't exactly popular, even back in the day, and it's mostly because shippers of other ships and fandom purists have already assumed the worst when they interacted with the ship before they did the shipper, which once again is out of the shippers' control.

From my experience, name-calling fellow shippers over these niche stuff will drive people away and discourage some creators from creating content (I already am on this stage). So, in my opinion, let's just agree to disagree. It's probably just me, but it's not like we have the power to make the writers write what we want anyway (Frozen 2 is already a proof that they would write what they want to write).

[formulatrash]

What's your take on the hockey booktok thing? Since you mentioned it on twt

my initial take would be that all these people scare me so much I don't want to get into it but also people keep messaging me to be like did you know people ship carlando" off the back of it and yes. I did know that.

my understanding of what's happened on booktok, which I absorb any information about only twice a year during whatever version of this is blowing up at the time, is pretty limited. partly because I'm not on tiktok and partly because I can't read. but the crux of it seems to have come down to people writing disgustingly thirsty comments on a hockey player and his wife's posts, regardless of what they were about, somehow feeling empowered to be horny not just on main but in someone's face because of booktok.

that's, clearly, not remotely acceptable. if there are communities of people out there that thirst about me I don't know about them (although the cold tendrils of horror about the Wikifeet page have just gripped me and no, oh god, that isn't the phrase I should've used at all get me out of here) but there are loads of people who fucking hate my guts. that's like, fine, it's their own business; if they keep it on discord or whatever and away from me it doesn't do me any harm. lord knows, I have committed the act of hating and indeed being horny, sometimes simultaneously, when I was at a safe enough distance for none of the subjects to ever know.

this is a thing about fandom. if you post "Max Verstappen looks breedable" on here then he's extraordinarily unlikely to ever see it or probably know what it means. if you comment that on Kelly's instagram posts, even if you don't like her and even if that's for valid reasons, that's very different.

as I gather it, the booktok thing has exploded into RPF in general. which, I gotta say, RPF and sexually harassing a dude and his family are in fact very different things. one has a rich history, both as actual ways of telling history (Anthony and Cleopatra: RPF, Chernobyl: RPF, the god damn Gran Turismo movie is RPF about an uncomfortably large number of people I know IRL and to be fair it looks like it slaps I'm gonna see it) and as a longstanding artform. RPF's history of horny is even extremely longstanding, with obscene RPF being used by both the French and Russian revolutionaries to undermine the concept of royal divinity.

RPF is political because it involves an interpretation of real events and people. and the perspective from which that's written will always be political. RPF can, certainly, be feminist; there's quite a lot of retellings of classical stories that fit this. RPF can, also, be fucking weird horny shit. or terrible man takes. or incredible, tender, queer retellings; Kaz Rowe's graphic novel about real-life surrealist Claude Cahun is an obvious example of the latter. Pride, the film about the miners' strikes and the AIDS crisis, is another.

so yeah, it is a legitimate and recognised form of literature and art and also uhhhh. well. I mean the omegaverse is definitely recognised, legally, in court because of that one case but I don't know that even its fiercest enthusiasts would really be all that keen on describing it. not as like, literature or anything just I think most people would rather literally never have an IRL conversation about that. ever.

I'm not 1000% clear on how carlando got into this but clearly that's broken containment a long time ago anyway. when you had Sky doing love heart interviews 15 races into them being teammates or whatever, there was an obvious amount of gay chicken being played by the producers that frankly, as a queer person in motorsport, I'm a lot more comfortable with the fan version of.

no, obviously, I do not think they are dating - or want to think that tbh - but frequently-queer fans projecting the wish fulfilment of seeing a kinder and more representative world for their desires, in places hidden from the subjects, is a lot less weird than leering, laughed-at dating questions and milk baths. in an ideal world it wouldn't have to be a secret, yearned-for alternative because things would be safe and open enough for there to be real queer stories everywhere but that, unfortunately, is not the one we currently live in.

wish fulfilment and telling stories are not the same things, necessarily. sometimes you tell the stories to remind yourself it's ok to have wishes or to work out what those even are. I don't think there's anything necessarily harmful about what names the characters have in those, provided the line between reality and any real people's privacy is kept.

clearly, with the booktok thing, that's where things went extremely wrong. generally tiktok as a whole seems to have a very odd perception about other people's agency, whether it's pranking videos or like the girl who filmed people peeing at Spa. if you regard everyday people as content opportunities (spoiler: the law does not think this and particularly in the EU you cannot film people without their consent) then I guess it's easy to slide over to seeing an athlete as a target for what I suspect very few of the people doing it recognised as very unpleasant and invasive harassment.

there's nothing wrong with fancying athletes. there's nothing even wrong with sexualising them, provided you respect some boundaries and provided it's not part of the conditions of their working contracts. there's a lot of difference between there being a discord where, idk, people say Mitch Evans is hot (he is, although somewhat implausibly he genuinely does not know this) and sponsors for female tennis players wanting them to wear revealing outfits and stay skinny or teenage girls being encouraged into provocative photoshoots by people who promise them roles, etc. teenage male athletes being pressured into doing things they don't want to yet or maybe at all to prove they're men, queer athletes being forced to hide who they are or repress it entirely.

would it be a little bit odd to find RPF of yourself? yes. I won't lie, I would judge the characterisation. I already do judge that on the frankly very weird things people write about me. you have never seen RPF as strange as the narratives people will make up about you in the comments of an article about hydrogen and frankly those scare me a lot more than whether someone thinks I'd be assigned beta or whatever.

stumbling across something, rather than having explicit sexual fantasies forced into your face, especially on what's your own social media pages where people you know in real life can see them, is very different though. some people who engage with RPF cross lines, whether that's weird conspiracy stuff about girlfriends being faked or stalking people's friends accounts etc.

RPF doesn't inherently cross lines, even when it's public; there's a very interesting interview here with Jann Mardenborough and the guy who plays him in the Gran Turismo movie about, among other things, portraying a fatal crash he was involved in. clearly, Jann is not only aware of but is the executive producer of what's ultimately fiction about himself and there's an ownership there, of course. but some parts of the movie are made up, for sure.

obviously I'm like, the not-very-secret infiltrator here because clearly I am On Tumblr and know what AO3 is. I follow a bunch of people who write fanfic because they also make nice gifs of my favourite blorbos and I like to think we can all make peace with our own boundaries about that kinda thing. also I read every single Shane/Ryan fic in like 5 weeks and honestly, not going to apologise except to myself for persisting with a few that didn't pay off.

but like: you do not have to make RPF or any fandom activity unethical. the way you conduct yourself does that and some people step way out of line.

[causesciencethatswhy]

The way jimin presents is much more obviously queer than any other member (purely based on mannerisms, cause if you hear joon or yoongi talking about love for a few minutes you can put two and two together). And his overt queerness makes a lot of cis hetero shippers (or kpop fans ) uncomfortable because they're forced to confront their internalized homophobia and misogyny head on. So they find a way to diminish his importance to the other members or villanise to cartoonish levels to deal with that discomfort.

(I'm the anon you responded to with this^^)

Add onto that how a lot of ARMYs seem to assume that just being a BTS fan makes you an ally/intelligent/a good person, and it's the perfect scenario for some cognitive dissonance. Only that JM haters and Tkkers don't seem to have enough cognitive for it to be anything. Even (maybe especially, even) shipping two men doesn't automatically make you supportive of the queer community and understanding of the struggles just existing as a queer person brings about.

They always clamour "but two gay men wouldn't do xyz in a homophobic country", failing to recognise that queer people have existed through so much worse and still have done things wildly more gay than anything Jikook have done.

There's also a lot of them who only see JM's gender expression and "queer subtext" (meaning fashion choices, and the whole concept of his photofolio + album) while disregarding JK's. Like, that man pulled out the most feminine look and attitude in his "bobs+bangs" Calvin Klein shoot. And he fucking owned it. But instead, at least in my perception, the fandom is split on him: one half genuinely sees and appreciates JKs expression of himself, while the other mostly memes it to death and ridding it of meaning. Any perception of JK as a potentially non-hetero man is forgotten the moment he presents as classically masculine again, aka stereotyping the whole queer community to death.

The latter doesn't happen with JM, because - like you said - he fits the common perception of a gay man. Which is all fun and games for the many "The JM effect" compilations, but for cis shippers it starts sliding into homophobia the moment they need to stop perceiving the members as Ken Dolls and instead treat them as actual human beings with all their complexities, faults and incongruent behaviour.

Which brings me onto Hobi. Now, I don't think he gets it quite as bad as JM.

One reason being that there's simply not as many Yoonminers who aren't mainly tkkers. The latter often uses the former to not be seen as a JM anti, but aside from compilations getting spread to push the "married couple" agenda, they don't focus their attention on it. (Also can the "arguing a lot = being in love/married" thing plz die? As someone whose grandparents argue every 20 minutes (real numbers) it's the actual worst and not really a reflection of romance...)

Another one is that Yoonminers do not care about original content at all. From what I've seen during my baby army days, they pick and choose everything down to the tiniest detail. So they mostly ignore that Hobi even exists as a possible variable.

Which brings me to my next point, which kinda breaks my heart: I don't think a lot of shippers in general, and the tkk/ym crowd in particular, see Hoseok as someone to focus their attention on. He gets forgotten a LOT, relegated to the fun sidekick comic relief while the ships are the mc's. (Which is why, imho, it's always his releases a lot of the fandom doesn't care about/actively ignores). The actual deep founded love every single member of BTS has for him - to the point they should actually propose - is insane. How can you think Ym is more real than Sope or Jihope? How can people be that willfully obtuse?

As someone who thinks Jikook could be real (2019, I am looking at you), I had my doubts seeing Jihope interact a few times. But what gets me is how fucking whipped Hobi gets every time he watches Jikook be all adorable. He looks at them like the proud BFF who got them together. A lot of that is his general love for the maknae line and his personality, but that level? The instances of it happening?

...

.......

This was a lot. Okay.

Tl;dr: BTS are human beings, also Hoseok is the best person on the planet probably. Be gay, do crime🏳️‍🌈

Even (maybe especially, even) shipping two men doesn't automatically make you supportive of the queer community and understanding of the struggles just existing as a queer person brings about.

This!! Is so key to everything wrong with a large group of shippers and even solo fans. This idea that because you ship on m/m ship over the other, you are no way capable of making homophobic assumptions and statements. To a lot of shippers shipping a potentially queer couple is just another way to fulfill some forbidden romance fantasy of theirs and not actual concern for the lived reality of queer couples in conservative countries.

Which is why the painful torture of two boyfriends being torn apart from each other like star crossed lovers sounds more palatable and realistic to tkkrs than a queer couple deciding to stick by each other's side through thick and thin, despite the risks. It's less spicy I guess, but who cares of queer joy when the dramatics of the other possibility is so much more enticing.

Everytime I see tkkrs make the whole, "being gay in the military is forbidden so a gay couple would never risk going together" argument, a part of my soul dies. I don’t know what's more offensive, the idea that a closeted couple will just forget how to behave around each other after potentially years of being together because Gays and their crazy sex drives, am I right?

Or the alternative explanation that queer people in conservative countries just never make risky descions for the sake of their partners because the law forbids them from even existing.

Both explanations are tone deaf and ignorant of the lived reality of queer people. Its a direct result of straight people dominating shipper spaces. I do sometimes wonder what queer tkkr shippers make of these theories (cause I'm sure they exist as well). Are they perhaps more sane or do they subscribe to this bs as well ?

And oh my gosh yes about jungkook. That boy has very vocally played about with his gender expression and has been the one ignored the most by seriously cis heterosexual fans. This daddy Dom fantasy they project onto him is a bit much though I do think he does enjoy a more masculine cool image for himself as well. Which to the straight mind is confirmation for all their wattpad inspired fantasies of him. It's unfortunate but alas, stereotypes stick , especially those made by people with a very set view of the world.

As for hobi and the ynmner /sope dilemma, I totally get it. Ynmn shippers do tend to get on my nerves from time to time as well and it no doubt does have something to do with the correlation of them to the tkkr subgroup. I have grown fond of the ynmn dynamic since my baby army days I must admit though, because you can clearly see how much yoongi genuinely appreciates jimins presence and how jimin relies on yoongi for emotional comfort. It is sweet, but yeah I don't necessarily see anything else going on there.

Same goes for sope honestly. Nothing has ever made me seriously question them, except the sunshine bf with grumpy bf dynamic they do fit into very perfectly. They also clearly rely on each other for emotional support (Bring Hobi, hes my vitamin 🥺) but yeah Nothing as eye raising ig ? But yes, i can completely see why it's so frustrating to see how Hobi is dismissed within other shipping dynamics similar to the treatment j/m has gotten. Hobi does tend to get overlooked a lot in these bts dynamic discussions when he very much does embody the heart of the group and the members love for him is so heartfelt and grand, we really seriously underestimate his significance to keeping the bts spirit in line all these years.

I love my ball of sunshine who holds and even bottles up a lot emotionally for the sake of his fans and the team. And he always deserves more appreciation by everyone in the fandom (myself included)

Ps. Jihope in that one 2020 music bank live was definitely a 👀 moment lol.

[beachesgetpeaches]

I can't deal with the two extremes at this point. I've seen some act like Matty is a godsend that never did anything wrong, because it was all an "act". I've seen the other side act like he murdered someone.

There is a middle ground. He might just be an immature asshole that made shitty edgy jokes. He wouldn't be the first. He won't be the last.

More than anything, and this is just my opinion, I feel like a lot (not all) of Swifties are upset, not because of what he said or did, but because he makes Taylor look bad and it calls her activism into question. Some of them seem to think liking an activist makes them an activist or morally superior.

This is probably all over the place, but that's kind of how I feel. Matty is an ass, as always. But Taylor was never an unproblematic champion of marginalized communities.

I think at this point, fans might just need to accept that maybe they aren't amazing people, and maybe it's okay to just like their music or...stop buying it. Taylor breaking up with Matty tomorrow won't make her a better person.

Sorry, that was longer than I meant it to be.

I actually love that my ask can be a place to vent and share opinions so no apologies needed for the length. But I agree, there are two extremes which kind of just seem to feed each other... and it's not constructive at all.

It also means that if you say something that disagrees with one extreme you are likely to be treated as the other. Though in this case I've gotta admit that I've seen more of it from the "hate matty" side than the defend side - though this could just be the side of the internet I am in.

And with that kind of mindset it means that people who are in the middle (which I think is the closest to the truth, not to idk pat myself on the head or anything) and recognise that Matty has fucked up, and that we should criticise some of his actions, while also maintaining that he is not actually racist/antisemitic/islamophobic/thedevil/etc... those people are being ignored. Or worse, they just get bunched with the other extreme side and called racists, white-feminists, and yknow the rest.

Not to mention that I do think Matty in his statement to New Yorker was onto something with how he said "let me get as close to X as possible, so you can see how good I am"... kind of like, look at me calling out what everyone else is calling out to prove how moral and good and worthy I am. When, in fact, all of those reactions are doing nothing because ultimately Matty (in this case) is actually not a racist, has stood for things that need standing up for, and is actually not actively harming people. Beyond hurting feelings of people online (?).

(and I guess here I understand the wish from some fans that he addresses things or apologises, but I can't speak on t1975 fandom account since I have not been a part of it for the many years they have been active)

Either way, to me it seems that people still have not learned to listen/read for themselves instead of reiterating the things they read without forming their own opinion.

@yallcantread has made a few really well written, well documented posts about this specific topic, which I would encourage people to read through.

[starleska]

Hi there! Random anon here! I’m a bit confused on all the Mad Mod love as of late, not that I’m against it cause I love him too (he’s one of my favorite villains from the original Teen Titans show), I’m just wondering what happened that caused him to suddenly spike in popularity on here.

I’m wondering if you may have a clue as to why, or if I’m perhaps overthinking what’s probably a normal thing in tumblr (ie things get popular sometimes just because).

hello there lovely anon!! :3c haha, it's so lovely to meet all these Mad Mod fans, i'm delighted!! 🥰 i did watch the show as a kid but don't have a clear memory of it - i was just referred to him by a friend recently, who knows my love for silly, awful villains 💖 i didn't realise there has been much of a spike...unless you count me suddenly flooding everyone's dashes? 🙈 there's a number of consistent artists and other contributors (@cerchionero, @kesha-ty, @teethhoarder, @arctic4life, @8v1r8, etc.) who've been carrying the Mad Mod fandom on their backs for a few years - perhaps it's been the cumulative, growing response to their lovely fanworks? 👀 it is really funny because i made this post on Twitter saying that Mad Mod would have a large fanbase if he was released today - and was very surprised to get such a big response!! loads of people saying things like 'oh i always down bad for him' or 'what do you mean if???' i know from some pals in the hypnosis community that he's very popular there, if just for being a gateway drug to the kink 😂 my answer is, there may well be a Mad Mod resurgence brewing...or it may be that we're a vocal minority recognising what a cool, simpable character he is, and that's causing a few people to turn their heads 😉 either way, welcome (back) to the club!! 🥰

[mertensia]

9 people you would like to know better

This looks very fun! Thank you for the tag @plutoprophecy ! 🧡

Three ships: Oh gosh I have been in so many fandoms this is going to be difficult! Okay, let's start with a classic ship that I still check in on from time to time; Bokuaka from Haikyuu, I was in the haikyuu fandom for a fair while when I was younger, and bokuaka was my top ship! For number two, I'd say wrightworth is just lovely, both characters have so much depth and personality!(old men in gay love am I wright), and finally, hmm I'll try to pick a more recent one, Helnik from SoC has me screaming crying clawing at the walls I am in love with them and even though I havent finished the book I KNOW something happens and I am never going to recover.

First ship ever: ...look, this is the cringe website so you cant judge me. I believe it was Kirishima and bakugo from My hero academia? At least that was one of the first I recognised as a 'ship' and the first ever I read fanfic for! (Fun little mer fact)

Last song listened to: 'Devil' by arms akimbo! Very good song, would reccomend!! It's a recent fave of mine,I love alt rock stuff a lot :)

Last movie watched: The last movie I properly sat down to watch with intent was Dead poets society on a friends recommendation and I absolutely loved it! That was back in January though, so i think the last film i actually saw was Án Cáilín Ciúin (The quiet girl), it was a nice film! Very cosy, a little slow though.

Currently reading: Crooked kingdom by leigh bardugo! The second book in the six of crows duology which I will reccomend to everyone! Go read it!! It is so well done and I love all of the characters very much!

Currently watching: I am not currently watching any tv shows really, not consistently at least! I've been watching through Star trek(tos) for the last year or so on and off, and I've been meaning to get back into watching ninjago but I keep getting distracted (apologies ninjago art enjoyer followers), and I've been watching limited life, but that's a YouTube series.

Currently consuming: Hmmm, I'm slowly being pulled into hermitblr, I am always consuming Linked Universe related media (Linked universe is a really cool Legend of Zelda fan comic with an awesome community and discord, you should check it out!) And I mean I'm not sure If this counts but I've been doing a lot of world building and general thinking about my OCs (I love my little guys and their trauma, I should post about them here)

Currently craving: cinnamon covered pretzels and good times with friends :)

And I shall tag (no pressure of course!): @meleficents @moss-and-marimos @zenashisntgaming @crowbrooooo @samathekittycat

[vlyteng]

BTS & ARMY - The Relationship between K-pop Groups and Fandoms

"Purple is the last colour of the rainbow. Purple means I will trust and love you for a long time. - Kim Taehyung (V), Member of BTS

In 2020, BTS became the first Korean group to be nominated for the Grammy Awards. Their recent hit track "Dynamite" was nominated for the Best Pop Duo/Group Performance category, alongside celebrities like Lady Gaga and Taylor Swift (BBC 2020). This historical moment took the K-pop community by storm as BTS made their imprint on one of the most recognised awards of our generation. This is not the first time K-pop has made headlines. In June 2018, Blackpink achieved the highest-charting U.S. single debut for a Korean girl group when their song "Ddu-Du Ddu-Du" peaked at No. 55 (Wang 2018). K-pop groups are most well known for their astonishing dance choreography each comeback, a range of different voices for singing and rapping, and of course they look like they were carved by God itself. However, they also have one more thing going for them, which is undying love and support from their own fandom.

A fandom can be known as a group of individuals who collectively like or support a single figure in popular culture, such as a television show, a book series, a film, an artist, or a performer (Wiest 2017). K-pop fandom is one of the most vibrant aspects of contemporary culture and community development (Lee et al. 2020, p. 436). K-pop has emerged as a social phenomenon that exemplifies how young people are extending youth culture through the media to include people of all races and languages (Yoon, cited in Lee et al. 2020, p. 436). Since the rise of new media, it has become even easier for stars and their fans to connect in a more meaningful way. An example of this is the Vlive app which is popularly used by K-pop idols to interact with their fans and followers through live streaming and chatting. 

Fandom as a fan culture has influenced our society in terms of social, economical, and even political. This is exceptionally obvious among the BTS fandom, popularly known as ARMY (Adorable Representative M.C for Youth). BTS regularly incorporate themes of youth and mental health in their discography and have always been loudly spoken about the importance of self-love and self-acceptance. In 2017, BTS partnered with the Korean Committee for UNICEF to sponsor the global #ENDViolence campaign which aims to ensure the safety and health of children and teens all over the world without the fear of violence (Love Myself 2017). BTS also created their own campaign called LOVE MYSELF and a fund was created with the focus of achieving a loving and better place to live for everyone (Love Myself 2017). Four years after the campaign was launched, BTS, UNICEF and their record label announced in a press release that they have raised $3.6 million to encourage self-love and put an end to child abuse and violence (Nakamura 2021).

“The groundbreaking way in which BTS has helped spark a positive message with its ARMY is simply unmatched and incredibly invaluable.” - Henrietta Fore, UNICEF Executive Director

Culturally, K-pop has also seen a wave of new creations and value shifts. Back when social media wasn’t a big thing, stars were the only ones being watched in the spotlight. Times have changed though! Through social media, each fan can engage in content development and experience a sense of accomplishment and belonging in their own fandoms. Fans can now record themselves dancing to their favourite songs, express their love for their favourite star’s outfit at the Met Gala and so much more. An example of this is BTS’ Permission to Dance challenge on YouTube. The Permission to Dance Challenge aims to unite individuals from all around the world to dance along with BTS and encourage them to collaborate on and exchange original Shorts productions (YouTube Music Team 2021). The challenge encourages anyone to make a 15-second Shorts video sharing the dance moves from their Billboard Hot 100 #1 hit, “Permission to Dance”. The septet makes three "International Sign" movements in the video that stand for "Joy," "Dance," and "Peace," and BTS is challenging viewers to imitate these gestures in their own unique ways (YouTube Music Team 2021). This trend lit up the internet as not just ARMYs, dancers and social media users from different countries and backgrounds posted videos of themselves dancing and having fun to this trend.

The relationship between K-pop artists and their fandom can go much deeper and further. BTS is so loved by many not just because of their music but because of the message and love they want to spread to the world. Their effort and kindness to help those in need should not be overlooked and the lengths in which ARMYs will go to support them is what the group considers a “safety net”. As fandoms and celebrities become more connected as the years go by, this shift can be used to bring a lot of good and positivity to the world. Let’s all use this with the advancement and benefit of public welfare and wellbeing in mind.

References

Wang, A. X 2018, How K-Pop Conquered the West, Rolling Stone, viewed 12 May 2023, <https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/bts-kpop-albums-bands-global-takeover-707139/>.

BBC 2020, BTS: Band gets first ever Grammy nomination for K-pop, BBC, viewed 12 May 2023, <https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55068627>.

Lee, SH, Tak, J-Y, Kwak, E-J & Lim, TY 2020, ‘Fandom, Social Media, and Identity Work: The Emergence of Virtual Community Through the Pronoun “We”’, Psychology of popular media, vol. 9, no. 4, Educational Publishing Foundation, p. 436

Love Myself 2017, About LOVE MYSELF, Love Myself, viewed 12 May 2023, <https://www.love-myself.org/post-eng/about-love-myself/>.

Nakamura, K 2021, BTS and UNICEF Raise $3.6 Million to End Violence Against Children, Global Citizen, viewed 12 May 2023, <https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/bts-unicef-love-myself-help-children/A>.

Wiest, B 2017, Psychologists Say That Belonging To A Fandom Is Amazing For Your Mental Health, Teen Vogue, viewed 12 May 2023, <https://www.teenvogue.com/story/psychologists-say-fandoms-are-amazing-for-your-mental-health>.

YouTube Music Team 2021, BTS and YouTube’s ‘Permission to Dance’ challenge kicks off today only on YouTube Shorts, YouTube Official Blog, viewed 12 May 2023, <https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/bts-and-youtubes-permission-to-dance-challenge-kicks-off-today-only-on-youtube-shorts/#:~:text=The%20Permission%20to%20Dance%20Challenge%20is%20an%20effort%20to%20bring,Shorts%20creations%20with%20one%20another>.

[shego1142]

Hmmm…. Can I make a post that’s probably going to upset people?

I’m not fakeclaiming (because I hate that so much)

But there are a lot of people who are using their autism diagnosis to bring down the autistic community and silence the voices of other autistic people

And you’d think we’d be fucking past that in the year 2022

But I keep seeing a lot of people saying things along the lines of

“If you like xyz then you’re a bad person! Even if you’re autistic and it’s your special interest! I’m autistic and when I have a problematic special interest I simply stop having that interest! UwU”

And then completely ignoring all the countless autistic people who explain that it doesn’t work that way for them.

I have “problematic” special interests that will not go away. They won’t stop, sometimes even if I am being harmed by them or by certain controversies surrounding them.

To stop having that special interest would stop me from being myself. Without my special interest and my ability to talk about and engage with said special interest, I am in both emotional and physical pain that drains me of my energy and general wellbeing.

Autism is a spectrum in that different aspects of it affect different people differently and whatever aspect special interests are, it affects me greatly.

And the same goes for thousands of other autistic peeps. 

For many many people, that means we can not “get rid of” a special interest. It’s there. Sometimes for a little while, sometimes for life.

That’s why I am so so so over “cringe culture.”

That’s why I’m unfollowing people who say “if you still like Harry Potter then you’re a bad person” or “read a better book”

There is not an interest an autistic person could have that would actually cause serious harm to others.

Interests are not actions you take. Interests are neutral, they can’t be inherently good or bad.

Autistic people who still like Harry Potter aren’t evil anti Semitic transphobic assholes, we’re fucking stuck with JKRoldemort breathing down our backs like some menacing monster.

We’re just as fucking pissed off, just as hurt, just as ostracised by her as everyone else (she’s super ableist too if everyone has just forgotten)

I’m trans. I have Jewish family members who also love HP like I do and many of them also have it as a special interest. I’m disabled both physically and neurodivergently.

I recognise that she is a shitty person and that her books aren’t always great. But it’s still a special interest of mine. I still love the fics and the fandom. I still love to watch the movies or reread my copies of the book.

And this isn’t just about HP, this is about literally any and every special interest ever.

Sure there are ways to reduce certain forms of harm that could potentially be done, you know, like pirating Disney shows, or not buying any officially licensed merch, etc.

All my books are bought from secondhand shops (in particularly one that supports my local library!) and when I have the $ to do so if I’m going to buy merch it will only ever be from individual small businesses ran by fans.

Like sure, watch where your money goes, yea that could be a good idea.

But honestly? Even that’s still exhausting and very fucking performative.

You’re not some holier than thou paragon of goodness just because you refused to read a book or a fic.

You’re not some amazing martyr because you’ve forced yourself to become smaller and are advocating for others to do the same.

Stop acting like you are.

And listen to people when we tell you we can’t do something or that it would cause us harm.

And if you’re sitting there, reading this and thinking “oh well my autism doesn’t affect me this way”

Then listen to me, because mine absolutely does affect me that way.

Either accept it and move on or block me and move on

but do not dare and try and tell me that I am not trying hard enough to be good enough to live up to the bullshit standards you’ve set for yourself.

I get that from neurotypical able body people enough as is and I am so sick of it.

I tried to make myself smaller, to tear myself down and hide my “upsetting” “problematic” “cringy” interests.

And I lost so much of myself in the process. I hurt myself because people on tumblr told me it was “what was right”

Fuck off.

I am not a bad person.

[ailuronymy]

Thoughts on the new discourse? Warrior cats naming conventions and rank names being straight up stolen from native American people? So many people seem to be... Straight up leaving the Fandom or changing all of their fan content and it feels very performative and, people not actually thinking critically and just being scared of getting "cancelled"? I feel like your opinions on these matters are very informed and well written so I wanted to ask given that this blog main theme is, well, warrior cat naming system and that seems to be the main issue of the new discourse.

This is probably going to get long, since there's sort of a lot to say about it in order to talk about this whole thing fairly and constructively, because from what I’ve seen there’s a lot of hyperbole happening, and panicking, and disavowing this series and fandom, and so on, like you say, and also some people genuinely trying to have complex meaningful conversations about racism in xenofiction, and also probably some bad faith actors in the mix--as well as some just... stupid actors. Kind of inevitably what happens when two equally bad platforms for having nuanced discussions--i.e., twitter and tumblr--run headlong into each other, in a fandom space with a majority demographic of basically kids and highly anxious, pretty online teens. I don’t mean that as a criticism of fans or their desire to be liked by peers and “correct” about opinions, it’s just the social landscape of Warriors and I think it’s worth pointing out from the start.  

If I’m totally honest with you, if not for this ask, I wouldn’t actually be commenting on it at all, because none of this is going to impact this blog or change how I run it in any way. But since you’ve asked and frankly I do feel some responsibility to try to disentangle things a little for everyone stressed and confused at the moment, because I know a lot of people look to this blog for guidance of all sorts, I’m going to talk about what I think has happened here, and how to navigate the situation in a reasonable way. 

Quick recap for anyone blissfully unaware: from what I understand, this post (migrated over from a presumably bigger twitter thread) has got a lot of people very worried about Warriors being a racist and appropriative series, and now are trying to figure out what ethically to do about this revelation. The thing I found most interesting about this screenshotted conversation is that it makes a lot of bold claims, but misses some pretty surprising details (in my opinion). If you do look critically at what is being said, here’s a few things to notice--crucially, there are two people talking. 

Person 1 says that a lot of animal fantasy fiction + xenofiction (fiction about non-human/”other” beings, such as animals) is frequently built upon stereotypes of First Nations and Indigenous people, and/or appropriates elements of Indigenous culture and tradition as basically set dressing for “strange” and “alien” races/species etc., and this is a racist, deeply othering, and inappropriate practice. This person is right. 

I’ve spent years researching in this field specifically, so I feel pretty confident in vouching (for whatever that’s worth) that this person is absolutely right in making this point. Not only is it frequently in animal fiction/xenofiction, but it’s insidious, which means often it’s hard to notice when it’s happening--unless you know what you’re looking for, or you are personally familiar with the details or tropes that are being appropriated. Because of the nature of racism, white and other non-First Nations people don’t always recognise this trend within texts--even texts they’re creating--but it’s important for us all, and especially white people, to be more aware, because it’s not actually First Nations’ people’s responsibility to be the sole critics of this tradition of theft and misuse. Appropriation by non-Indigenous people is in fact the problem, which means non-Indigenous people learning and changing is the solution. 

Person 1 offers Warriors as a popular example of a work that has this problem. Notably, this person hasn’t given an example of how Warriors is culpable (at least in this screenshot and I haven’t found the thread itself, because the screenshot is what’s causing this conversation), only that it’s an example of a work that has these problems. And once again, this person is correct. We’ll look at that more in a moment.

Person 2 (three tweets below the first) offers, by comparison, several more specious insights. Firstly, it’s really, really not the only time anyone’s ever talked about this, academically + creatively or in the Warriors fandom specifically, and so that reveals somewhat this person’s previous engagement in the space they’re talking into re: this topic. In other words, this person doesn’t know what has already been said or what is being talked about. Secondly, this person explicitly states that they “[don’t know] much about warrior cats specifically but from what I see it just screams appropriation,” which as a statement I think says something crucial re: the critical lens this person has applied + the amount of forethought and depth of analysis of their criticism of this particular series. 

I’m not saying that using twitter to talk about your personal feelings requires you to research everything you talk about before you shoot your mouth off. However, I personally don’t go into a conversation about a topic I don’t know anything about except a cursory glance to offer bold and scathing criticisms based on what it “just screams” to me. By their own admission, this person isn’t really offering good faith, thoughtful criticism of the series, in line with Person 1′s tweet. Instead, Person 2 is talking pretty condescendingly and emphatically about--as the kids say--the vibes they get from the series, and I’m afraid that just doesn’t hold up well in this court. 

So now that there’s Person 1 (i.e., very reasonable, important, interesting criticism) and Person 2 (i.e., impassioned but completely vibes-based opinion from someone who hasn’t read the books) separated, we can see there’s actually several things happening in this brief snapshot, and some of them aren’t super congruent with each other. 

Person 1 didn’t say “don’t read bad books,” or that you’re a bad person for being a fan of stories that are guilty of this. They suggested people should recognise the ways xenofiction uses Indigenous people and their culture inappropriately and often for profit. My understanding of this tweet is someone offering an insight that might not have occurred to many people, but that is valuable and important to consider going forward in how they view, engage with, and create xenofiction media.

Person 2 uses high modality, evocative language that appeals to the emotions. That’s not a criticism of this person: they’re allowed to talk in whatever tone they want, and to express their personal feelings and opinions. However, rhetorically, this person is using this specific language--consciously or subconsciously--to incense their audience--i.e., you. Are you feeling called to action? What action do you feel called to when you rea their words, despite the fact their claims are not based in their own actual analysis of or engagement with the text? It’s, by their own admission, not analysis at all. Everything they evoke is purely in the name of “not good” vibes. 

Earlier I mentioned that Person 1 is correct that Warriors is absolutely guilty of appropriation of First Nations and Indigenous people and culture. I also mentioned that they didn’t specify how. That’s because I think the most egregious example is in fact the tribe, which in many ways plays into the exact kind of stereotyping and appropriation of First Nations Americans that Person 1 mentions, and not the clans, contrary to Person 2′s suggestion. For instance, in addition to the very loaded name of “tribe”, there’s a lot of racist tropes present in how that group of cats is introduced and how the clan cats interact with them, as well as the more North American-inspired scenery of their home. It’s very blatant as far as racism in this series. 

When it comes to the clans themselves, though, I think it’s muddier and harder to draw clear distinctions of what is directly appropriative, what is coincidentally and superficially reminiscent, and what is not related at all. Part of this difficulty in drawing hard lines comes from the fact that, on a personal level, it actually doesn’t matter: if a First Nations person reads a story and feel it is appropriative or inappropriate, it’s not actually anyone’s place to “correct” them on their reading of the text. Our experiences are unique and informed by our perspectives and values, and no group of people are a monolith, which means within community, there will always be disagreement and differenting points of view. There is no one single truth or opinion, which means that First Nations people even in the same family might have very different feelings about the same text and very different perspectives on how respectful, or not, it might be. 

I’m saying this because something that gets said very often when conversations of racism and similar oppressive systems present/perpetuated in texts comes up, people frequently say: “listen to x voices.” It is excellent advice. However, the less pithy but equally valuable follow-up advice is: “listen to the voices of many people of x group, gather information and perspective, and then ultimately use your own judgement to make an informed opinion for yourself.” It means that you are responsible for you. The insight you can gain by listening to people who know topics and experiences far better than you do is truly invaluable, but if your approach to the world is simply to parrot the first voice, or loudest voice, or angriest voice you come across, you will not really learn anything or be able to develop your own understanding and you certainly won’t be making well-informed judgements. 

In other words, one incomplete tweet thread from two people who are each bringing quite different topics and modes of conversation (or perhaps gripes, in Person 2′s case) to the table is not really enough to go off re: making a decision to leave a fandom, in my opinion. In fact, I think in responding to anything difficult, complex, or problematic (which doesn’t mean what popular adage bandies it about to mean) by trying to distance yourself, or cleanse of it, will ultimately harm you and will not do you any good as a person. It is better, in my opinion, to enter into complex relationships with the world and media and other people in an informed, aware way and with a willingness to learn and sometimes to make mistakes and be wrong, rather than shy away from potential conflict or fear that interacting with a text will somehow taint you or define your morality in absolutes. 

So. Does Warriors have racist and appropriative elements, tropes, and issues in the series? Yes, of course it does, it’s a book-packaged series produced by corporation HarperCollins and written by a handful of white British women and their myriad ghostwriters. Racism is just one part of the picture. The books are frequently also ableist, sexist, and homophobic (or heteronormative, depending how you want to slice it, I guess), just to name some of the most evident problems. 

But does the presence of these issues mean it’s contaminated and shouldn’t be touched? Personally, I don’t think so. Given the nature of existing the world, it’s not possible to find perfect media that is free of any kind of bias, prejudice, or even just ideas or topics or concepts that are challenging or uncomfortable. I think it’s more meaningful to choose to engage with these elements, discuss them, criticise them, learn from them, and acknowledge also that imperfection is the ultimate destiny of all of us, especially creators.

I’m not saying that as a pass, like, “oh enjoy your media willy-nilly, nothing matters, do what you want, think about no-one else ever because we’re all flawed beings,” but rather that it’s important not to look away from the problems in the things we enjoy, rather than cut off all contact and enjoyment when we realise the problems. That doesn’t mean you have to only criticise and always be talking about how bad a thing you like is either, publicly admonishing yourself or the text, because that’s also not a constructive way to engage with media. 

As I said, there’s a lot to say here, and believe it or not, this is honestly the shortest version I could manage. There’s always more to say and plenty I haven’t talked about, but pretty much tl;dr: 

I don’t find Person 2′s commentary particularly compelling, personally, because I think it’s a little broad and a little specious in its conclusions and evidence, and I also suspect that this person is speaking more from their feelings than from a genuine desire to educate or meaningfully criticise, unlike Person 1. That’s not to say Warriors isn’t frequently racist and guilty of the issues Person 1 is discussing, because it is, but I don’t think this tweet thread is a great source of insight into the ongoing history of this problem in xenofiction, or Warriors specifically, on its own. I would recommend exploring further afield to learn more from a variety of sources and form your own opinions. I hope this helps. 

[chiropteran-hellfire]

Looking around today I'm happy to see so many people so excited for Diabolik Lovers’ 10th anniversary, the fact that my source has lasted so long and means so much to so many people genuinely warms me to see. The community that has formed around it hasn't always had the best reputation, and I'm well aware of many clashes that would happen in the past. However, as time went on, those who understood there was something unique about Diabolik Lovers remained in the fandom, and their understanding of us grew, as they did too did with time as well.

While I hold my name of Reiji still, in this life, in this place, I still recognise how much we all from DL mean to our fans. The place we occupy in your hearts and the support we may offer you at your lowest points I recognise as irreplaceable, and something I personally have little authority over. Yet I have seen first hand how those of us from DL have effected those here; as a force of comfort, as a motivator, or simply for a pleasurable escape from reality. Whatever purpose we have for you, thank you for the time and love you offer to us.

Though most of us can not reach beyond the screen to communicate these words in person, and my brothers likely could not care less.. If I retain even a sliver of right to speak on the behalf of my family, I offer my thanks in their place, as well as from myself personally.

May we continue to exist within your minds for many more years to come, if Rejet decides to continues our legacy or not.

Signed -

[akookminsupporter]

regarding the ask about jimin being called names because his effeminate side.

first of all if you're familiar with the Korean culture you will understand that he's behaving like a baby or child wich is not a problem at all in Korea. you will never see a Korean akages or antis calling him those names. because it's normal for men to act that way in Korea specially Idols. and if you pay attention to jimin when he's not fooling around he's very manly. second off all this names started by that toxic part of the fandom that well all knows who tkkrs. they call him that because they pictured him that way to suit their tkk narrative drama. he's the homewrecker the unfaithful friend who's trying to snatche his soulmate's boyfriend. and because in general culture only women are pictured like that so for them they think of him that way. I'm always confused when people misunderstood Jimin's behavior and call it feminine because it's not the case. remember that in our society we told male children to start behave as men if they want us to consider them as grownup. so the problem is the stereotype of our western society. and one of the things that really makes me sad that most of the fandom don't want to learn and adapted their prejudice about the boys based on the Korean culture. i mean you're a fan of a Korean boy band don't expect them to behave as westerners just because you stand them. and I'm glad that the boys didn't change to fits in the western culture to please their fans.

Sorry for my long ask and my poor English skills

Anon I have some problems with your ask.

When many people say, and by this I mean people from the lgtbi+ community who recognise that side of Jimin, they don't mean the fact that Jimin does aegyo. That is the word they use in Korea. That's different and it's something that ALL members of BTS do not just Jimin. That in my opinion, has nothing to do with the effeminate side that many see in Jimin.

The rest of your post, with all due respect is problematic.

when he's not fooling around he's very manly.

A Korean man who does aegyo is not manly? Or can't be manly?

I feel that in your eagerness to defend Jimin you ended up offending him and ended up offending many people in the lgtbi+ community who are fans.

I don't know if I'm misinterpreting your words, if so I apologise but...

[itariilles]

My Statement on Tolkien 2019

[ French translation and German translation availible. ]

It has been incredibly difficult for me to speak on my experiences regarding my experiences of hostility and othering in spaces that I loved and still hold dear to my heart, and for that reason I have been silent. That is until now. 

I have decided that now is the right time for me to come forward with my experience and statement regarding my negative experience as a person of colour engaging in Tolkien spaces. 

I want people involved in the wider Tolkien community to reflect on their roles in the specific spaces they inhabit, and how you can foster a better environment for marginalised groups to interact and engage with those spaces in a safe and inclusive manner. 

Take your time to listen and put effort into listening to fans of colour when they are speaking about their lived experiences and their grievances especially when they are speaking about a topic as personal as racism. Being critical of a work you love and the media surrounding it is not easy thing, but we need to recognise that these criticisms are valid and deserve to be taken seriously when it affects a collective of people across different backgrounds. 

I want to preface this by stating that I am speaking only for myself and my own lived experience as a vocal young non-black POC in a predominantly white space. I acknowledge that my experience is by no means universal or indicative of all POC in Tolkien fandom spaces. 

I also understand that real life interactions differ widely from interactions on online fandom spaces, but there are disturbing similarities across both online and real life spaces with specific regard to the environment and treatment of vocal POC in both. 

The tragedy is many people do not realise their impact not only on the individuals involved, but on the wider attitude towards POC voices in fandom when the topic of racism is discussed. We need to build safe environments where critical discussions of diversity and race from the people most affected by them are taken to heart, not invalidated or spoken over as targets of microaggressions. 

To give a bit of context, Tolkien 2019 was an in person conference organised by the Tolkien Society (which I was a member of at the time). The official website for Tolkien 2019 has been taken down but the Tolkien Society has a nice summary written in August 2018 breaking down the event here. 

I was approached by the Education Secretary at the time about my possible involvement in a panel discussing the history and future of the Tolkien Society which I elaborate on further in my statement. It was the first time I had felt that I had a platform where I could freely express my voice as a diverse reader and consumer of Tolkien media who held diversity in Tolkien as a core value in the wider Tolkien brand. 

I felt that as the only non-white member on the panel I had an obligation to speak out on the topic of diversity when it was raised. I tried to speak briefly about some of the points and discourses I had heard on portrayals of diversity in Tolkien media with as much nuance as I could manage at the time. In response to some points I had made I was met with vocal disapproval by some audience members and visible signs of disapproval and hostile body language from others. 

This was made even more jarring when later during the course of the event when two white creators hinted at vague notions of diversity were met with a far greater degree of approval. The former instance was during the context of a panel regarding the upcoming LOTR on Prime series, and the latter was during a talk presented by the chair of the Tolkien Society.

I felt intimidated and reluctant to involve myself any further in the Tolkien fandom, especially in real life spaces as my experience at Tolkien 2019 had only solidified and reaffirmed my fears and unease I had engaging in a predominantly white fandom with few visible POC members and creators who tackle topics of diversity and racism in both the community and source texts.

Following this event I was approached by an affiliate of one of the attendees who very kindly took the time to listen to me and suggested that I should write a statement in response to my experience. To my knowledge, my statement has not been shared or published on any platform yet and this will be the first time I have ever spoken about it publicly. 

Since then some of my thoughts and opinions on certain aspects of Tolkien fandom and meta have shifted or evolved which I will hopefully expand on in the future, but I wanted to share my initial unchanged statement I wrote reflecting my immediate reaction to my experience. 

I want to be seen as a Tolkien creative and critical thinker above anything else, but I cannot move forward with my work without speaking about my lived experience in a space which has been consistently hostile to me and so many others across different Tolkien spaces for so many years starting with my account of this one experience.

I hope my statement finds itself in good hands and I will always be willing to engage with others about my experiences so long as you engage with me in good faith. 

The statement I wrote on 25/09/2019 is as follows:

From the 9th to 11th of August of this year I attended a conference held by the Tolkien society aptly named “Tolkien 2019” that advertised itself as the “largest celebration of Tolkien ever held by the Society” in which I both spoke as a panelist and independant speaker. The event itself was a mixture of both formal and informal panels, papers presented by selected members of the society, and evening social events.

My invitation to speak on the “History of the Tolkien Society” panel was presented as deliberate choice made by the panel organiser as a gateway for discussion about diversity and representation in Tolkien. On the official programme, the panel was described as a discussion concerning “what the Tolkien Society and Tolkien fandom in general may become as it encounters digital spaces, issues of representation and diversity, academic interest and a myriad other factors that make up our lived experience today”.

Although there was much excitement and anticipation on my half in the weeks and days leading up to the event, it soon turned to dread when the tone and climate of the discussion dawned on me when I took my seat alongside five other panelists ranging from seasoned Tolkien scholars, long-time members of the Society, and a member with a leadership position within the Society. On that four person panel, I was the only one racialised as non-white. In fact, I was one of only three people in a room of approximately fifty to sixty people racialised as non-white.

It wasn’t long before the true motive of placing me — a young, new member of the Society, who felt already out of place and out of my depth even being offered the opportunity to participate in the first place — on a panel of what I perceived to be more seasoned members of the society.

When the topic of diversity and representation in the Tolkien fandom was raised by the moderator, I saw it as an opportunity for me to share my own experiences as a young fan who predominantly consumed Tolkien content online, as well as some observations I had made regarding the current pop-cultural perception of Tolkien as being heavily influenced, if not wholly entered around the Peter Jackson trilogies and being deeply ingrained with the issues that seep from those interpretations into our overall perception of the Tolkien brand.

One of the talking points that seemed to have caused the biggest uproar and dissent was one in which I referred Tolkien’s description of Sam’s hands as brown in two instances — the first in the Two Towers, and the second instance in Return of the King and how this has been translated into film as both literal and symbolic interpretations. The former in the Ralph Bakshi’s the “Lord of the Rings” released in 1978 in which I noted that the decision to portray Sam as more ethnically ambiguous compared to the other Hobbits was a deliberate choice, whereas the latter was depicted in the recent Peter Jackson trilogy released in the early 2000’s took the description symbolically and cast the white American actor Sean Astin for the role.

The backlash I received for this was, I believe, absolutely disproportionate to the views I expressed. I saw members frown and grunt in disapproval, as well as some visibly shake their heads at me. In spite of me parroting how I saw both interpretations as equally valid as a defence mechanism in the face of such an aggressive response to what to me seemed like an innocuous observation made by a young person of colour who did not see many portrayals of people of colour in Tolkien. 

Comments such as “I don’t care who they cast as Sam whether he’s black, brown, yellow, blue or green!” and “Tolkien’s message is universal I don’t see how race factors into this!” were shouted in between points I was making, and countless others were made as an effort to dismiss the effort I put in to hopefully start an open dialogue about the lack of diversity in adaptations of Tolkien and how it has coloured our perception of the overall brand, and perhaps fantasy as a whole.

Some other talking points I decided to mention included Peter Jackson’s Easterlings (coded as being North African or Middle Eastern in the film) as being appallingly Orientalist and damaging in a post-911 world, as well as referring to Tolkien’s vague descriptions of certain characters and people groups that can be interpreted as ethnic coding or perhaps hint at a more diverse cast than the popular brand of Tolkien that may have us believe. I iterated that it is the responsibility of consumers of Tolkien and Tolkien related media to push for different interpretations of the text in order to break the perception that Tolkien’s works are entirely Anglo and Eurocentric with no place for people of colour in the vast world he had created in my opinion as a love letter to his own.

A month later it is still difficult for me to fully wrap my head around what I had experienced during the conference, much less articulating it in a statement, but if there is a note I would like to conclude on it would be this: it was never about changing Tolkien’s works, but reinterpreting his 20th century text littered with colonial artefacts and reimagining the foundations of his work through a 21st century lens in an attempt to decolonise the interpretation of his works in popular culture.

To change the way we read, write and depict the Tolkien brand is to fundamentally change the landscape of the entire genre of fantasy which has and still derives so heavily from Tolkien’s works and the global Tolkien brand.

End.

[theji]

Both GGDD recently filed lawsuits against toxic solos and antis (again) and with that, came a new wave of discussions, such as this, on how GG is so 'poor thing', so alone. Or questions on why isn't DD helping him etc?

I really find it ridiculous that after all these years, after the storm that he has weathered through and emerged stronger from, people still think of GG as this helpless boy who's struggling on his own, without help from his management company, no close friends, no resources etc. The thoughts of 'Gege only has us. Gege needs our protection' is frankly just delusional, toxic even.

No, I hate to break it to you but GG has a close-knitted and reasonably capable team who takes care of him work-wise, keeps him well-fed, sometimes brings him some laughter and respects him as a boss. GG has a competent legal team who takes care of his interests, gives him advice and acts promptly when antis defame him. GG is backed by huge corporations like Tencent and CCTV. GG has the support and endorsements from industry veterans like various directors and seasoned actors/producers/singers who recognise him for his talents, hard work and good personality. GG has close friends from the industry whom he can count on in times of need, private friendships that he doesn't need to tell anyone about. GG has brands that adore and value him, and show him support in various ways outside his endorsements. GG has loving and supportive parents. And finally, GG has his Gou Zai Zai, his 24-hours shelter, his all-in-one source of comfort, support, stress-relief, advice, joy, motivation, companionship, etc. And also 🐢.

This is Xiao Zhan we're taking about. The entrepreneur who set up his own design and photography studio while juggling university. The guy who once made a cool RMB 200K from a design project even before graduation. The guy who bravely gave up his former budding career as an graphic designer to pursue a new career in the entertainment industry at the ripe old age of 24. The guy who refused to give up on his dreams and insisted on continuing dance practice even when his toe nails came off. The guy who was new to the entertainment industry but had to depend on himself to secure work, travelling on his own to auditions and public engagements. The guy who spent months filming under harsh schedules and conditions without complaints. The guy who was put through the worst and an unprecedented PR storm any public figure ever has to go through and made it through in one piece, even emerging bigger, better and stronger.

I could go on but to what end? You can't wake up a person who's pretending to be asleep. Those who still insist on viewing GG through diminished lens will always see him as someone lesser. Frankly, I think it's really disrespectful to disregard GG's capabilities and achievements, all in the name of 'love'.

GG may look pretty and mild on the outside but he is made of stronger stuff on the inside. He has likened himself to bamboo, resilient and tough enough to weather through storms. Hear it from the man (yes, man. Not boy, not baby) himself. He needs no protection. I don't know how many times GG needs to repeat himself before his 'fans' can get the message. Focus on his works, celebrate his achievements, spread positivity within the fandom, do good for the community, follow him rationally, purchase his endorsements within reasonable means, don't obsess over polls and rankings, don't start or engage in fan wars, treat other fan groups with respect, focus on your own lives and keep a distance from his personal life.

战, meaning battle, to fight, is literally his name.

TL;DR, GG knows his shit and fans should mind their own business.

[childotkw]

The relationship between the creator and their fans is always an odd one. In a perfect world, fans would be happy with whatever the creator puts out but sadly we don't. I've consumed quite a bit of media (novels, manga, fanfic, TV shows, etc) and I noticed that sometimes whatever the author envisioned is not what the fans want. So it boils down to, does the creator live to serve their fans or does the creator ignore their fans. Once again this is a hard question because (1/2)

The creator is successful because of their fans and without their fans the creator wouldn't be recognised. So Jordan what's your take on this conundrum? (2/2)

--- -- --- -- --- -- ---

Okay, so this is actually a really interesting question. To be honest, I'm not sure how to really answer it, but I'll give it my best.

First thing to address is that while I am both a consumer and a creator of content, being a creator has had more of a significant impact on my life. Emotionally, mentally, maturity-wise, being a creator has influenced me far more than fandom would if I was just a consumer. So, naturally, I am more likely to support the creator side of this discussion than the consumer one. I just wanted to highlight my own bias before I start laying out my thoughts.

You're right in that the relationship between creators and their consumers is a strange one. The power dynamic is interesting to pick apart, but it also a messy, murky and grey area. Popularity and likes / kudos and comments can be a heavy motivator to a lot of creators, particularly if they use their creativity as a source of income, and I admit fully that I am often driven by my enjoyment of people's reaction to and support of my works.

Creators rely on their fans to be 'successful' in the fandom space (and sometimes out of it, if they make the move to producing original content), and I know I personally owe a lot to the fans for the attention and support they've given over the years. Consumers rely on creators to produce the works they enjoy, they need creators to build up their fandoms, or favourite ships, or draw artwork and write stories. Creators provide the food that helps feed the fan-community.

In an ideal world, this relationship would be a mutualistic one. Creators create to feed the consumers, and consumers consume the content and provide food in the form of shares/likes/attention/etc., which means that creators can create bigger and better things. Everything would be fine and dandy, and everyone would have fun. The problem emerges when one side of this relationship breaks down or demands more.

I have seen many examples of entitlement in fandoms over the years - on both sides of the relationship. Reader entitlement is something I have dealt with many times since I first entered the arena. I've had people demand things of me (updates, snippets, opinions, explanations, justifications, etc.). I've had them question decisions I've made or outright criticise the direction I've taken my stories because they don't personally like it. And I won't lie and say it doesn't get to me. I feel sometimes like I have to provide these things because I feel a sense of duty or responsibility to the people who follow and support me. I feel like I have to constantly provide things or I'll lose the validation and feel-goods that come from being a relatively popular writer in my fandom. It's frustrating and draining - and I'm only human. Which is another aspect I think often slips peoples' minds. Creators very much have lives outside of the work they produce. We have jobs, families, relationships and responsibilities that mean we can't always been pumping out content. The worst comments I get are always the ones that demand an update literally on the same day I just uploaded a +7000 word chapter. It sucks.

But to answer your question: I don't live to serve my fans.

No creator does - or at least they shouldn't. The support we get from consumers is a nice benefit, but most of us are just out here having fun and doing things we like. We put up this content that we have poured hours of attention and love into, in large parts for free. We just want to have a good time. We want to make friends and share a bit of our creativity with the fandom.

In terms of the example you provided, where fans don't agree with what a creator does with their works - my response essentially boils down to this:

If someone doesn't like a decision I make in my works, they don't have to continue to support me. I don't expect things like that from my fans. I don't care if someone doesn't leave a comment, or if they've never liked a post or left a kudos.

All I expect is some trust. Some respect. And I think that's a pretty reasonable thing to ask for. Fans who have been with me for a while trust my abilities as a writer, and trust that despite my long breaks between updates or times where I drop off the face of the planet, that I'll inevitably pop back up and unleash some updates with no warning. They respect the decision I make in my stories, because when it comes down to things, it's my story. It's my plot. I'm just taking you guys along for the ride.

I trust that my fans will continue to support me, even if I make a story decision they don't necessarily agree with. I trust that they'd at the very least give me the benefit of the doubt and want to see how I develop things going forward. Or if not, they'd have the respect not to send me disappointed or disrespectful messages about it.

I'm not sure if this completely answers your question. This is kind of my stream of consciousness, but this is what I feel in regards to the creator--consumer relationship.

I'm not here to serve fans, but I am grateful for any support they feel like giving.