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rjmhereunderprotest · 2 years ago

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Crossed Paths & Tangled Webs: Why I Ship SpiderCat

This is gonna be a controversial one through no fault of my own... but also it's all my own damn fault. A confusing contradicting statement to be sure, but when you're talking about Peter Parker and Felicia Hardy, that statement seems to ring the most true. Two people who are as perfect for each other as they are imperfect. In love through no fault of their own... and completely at fault for being so.

My poll for another ship to cover picked this... I'm more than happy to talk about it but we're dealing with volatile stuff right now. As I write this, Spider-Man and Black Cat actually ARE in a relationship with each other. Peter has recently stated that he no longer feels romantically for his long-time love-interest, Mary Jane, calling her more akin to a sister. MJ was apparently stuck in some post-apocalyptic Narnia situation where enough time passed for her to have kids with another guy. And if that wasn't enough... Mary Jane may be about to join Gwen Stacey in the fridge, if you get my meaning. As Zeb Wells is teasing the most shocking Spider-Man story since Gwen Stacey's death and the solicits for the story afterwards say Spider-Man is about to suffer a terrible loss. Felicia is on the covers of at least one of those issues. So unless it's a complete fake out and Wells is going to kill off a relationship he has stated he both prefers and spent a ton of time setting up at the expense of the preferred romance among fans... yeah it's not looking good for MJ. I mean he might kill off Aunt May again, but... well there's no guarantees in comics... ever.

This is a strange time period to be a long suffering SpiderCat shipper. I have held a torch for these two for such a long time it feels like almost second nature. I see Felicia, I want to see her with Peter. No one else, man or woman, will do. (Yes she's Bi, shut up, it's canon) Yet right now, a SpiderCat shipper is now writing the Spider-Man books and everyone seems to absolutely hate Zeb Wells' execution of it all. I've gotten what I wanted, at last, but fans are outright rejecting it. Not so much for Felicia and Peter being together mind you, as much as they're annoyed MJ is being thrown under the bus.

Which I get actually, I may have wanted this ship over Peter/MJ, but not at her expense. I don't want her DEAD or badly written. And given how Marvel has basically treated MJ and Peter over the years, it's hard to argue that these reactions are anything but justified. Even decades later, One More Day's shadow still looms large. Marvel has constantly teased and poked and prodded and snickered about the possibility of Mary Jane and Peter Parker becoming an item again. If not married, at the very least dating. But Marvel seems insistent on this point. "The Marriage was a mistake, we're never going back to it. And anything that is even remotely similar to that status quo is not allowed. Ever." The inability of Marvel's Spidey writers to craft a compelling happy marriage between Peter and MJ has been an albatross around the neck of the ship forever! Even when they did it in an ongoing, it had to be a different universe! One where the Civil War comics event wasn't a thing, so that was also a plus. And MJ had to get Spider Powers too in order to smooth over the whole thing for writers.

So, yeah, MJ's been blamed for making Spider-Books dull and kept at arms length from Peter as much as possible. Because if Spider-Man is EVER TOO HAPPY that can only spell DOOM for the character. His world must always revolve around misery. Linkara of AT4W has said it time and again, in the eyes of Marvel, Spider-Man can never be allowed to be happy.

And yet, despite all that, I still hold true to this maxim, Peter Parker and Felicia Hardy are made for each other. If I ever had an OTP, if I ever had a ship I'd die for, if there was ever any romance I was forever evergreen invested in... it was SpiderCat. Despite whatever the world says, that it can't work, that it's a bad idea, that they don't need each other, that it will never be the way Peter/MJ were once... I don't care. I reject all of that and state proudly, without shame, every time that Spider-Man and the Black Cat are and always shall be perfect for each other.

So Let's Talk about Why that is...

Usually I'm inclined to give brief synopsis points about both characters in separate sections. But Spider-Man is so well known and Black Cat so simply explained in their initial set ups it feels almost... pointless. When you can describe at least one half of the shipping dynamic with a theme song from a sixties cartoon it's hard to honestly come up with anything new or original.

So yeah, Peter Parker, nerdy wimp who gets bitten by a radioactive spider, doesn't get cancer from this, but super powers. Thinks about using these great powers to enrich his life, but after letting a criminal get away because it's "not his problem" he learns a harsh lesson about responsibility. His uncle dies at the hands of said criminal, it's all his fault, and Peter proclaims that as long as he has these powers he will use them to help people.

And as a result, Spider-Man is the hero that always gets up because he has to, he needs to. Because people, strangers and loved ones, depend on him. This comes at the cost of a great deal of things that would make him personally happy. Because if Spider-Man is about anything, it's about personal sacrifice and responsibility. It has been a running theme since his first comic and will continue until the heat death of the universe. If you know nothing else of Spider-Man, this is the most important fact about him going forward for the rest of this essay. Spider-Man is Responsibility and Self-Sacrifice Personified. Whenever he doesn't live up to either aspect of himself, bad things happen, to him, to the people he cares about and New York City at large.

On the other side of that coin, Felicia Hardy, aka the Black Cat. Infamous thief. While her origins are more fluid throughout her incarnations, her general story is pretty much the same. Felicia is a thrill seeking thief, who lives for the daredevil rush only a well-executed heist can accomplish. The Black Cat persona is that of a femme fatale thief of the highest order. There's no question that she shares more than a few similarities to Catwoman of Batman fame. Save for the fact she might possess a slight passive power that causes bad luck to her opponents.

Different character of course, but that's just to establish that it is a superpower. Felicia uses it mainly to steal whatever she wants and get away scot-free. She, in general, tries to avoid personal consequences for these actions. While her motives may vary from one story or universe to the next, ultimately her purpose in life is the same. To live for herself, for her needs and how she wants. The Black Cat persona is just that, a means to indulge in her wants and desires to the fullest extent. She is, inherently, self-serving and selfish whereas Spider-Man is selfless.

On the surface this presents a dynamic akin to oil and water. Spider-Man is an avatar of personal responsibility. The Black Cat is the personification of independent self-interest. They are such opposites, such contradictions, that they should just not work. They should be enemies... and that is how they started.

Amazing Spider-Man #194, Black Cat's first appearance where she and Spidey come to blows over her illicit activities. Felicia has contracted a crew for a job to spring her terminally ill father from prison. Spider-Man tries to stop her, only to end up buried under the rubble of the exploding prison wall. Black Cat flees the scene with a quip about crossing her path and Spidey with a bad arm post-fight. The next issue sees Spidey deduce Felicia's real identity and that Felicia only broke her father out so he could spend his dying hours with his wife and her mother. Spidey and Cat come to blows outside arguing over the merits of what she's done. However in the struggle Black Cat starts to fall off a roof into a surging river below. Spidey catches her with his bad arm, trying to stop her fall... but can't hold on as Felicia seemingly falls to her death. He tries to return to the Hardy residence, only to see Felicia's mother in grief over the death of her husband. Not wanting to add to it... Spidey leaves.

Of course, this isn't the end for Felicia, issue #204 sees the Black Cat return. She's actually been watching him it seems, taking photos of him swinging around town. They get reacquainted at the museum where Cat manages to slip away again after another fight with Spider-Man. Felicia is annoyed though that he keeps fighting her, not understanding why she's doing this. And by the next issue it's revealed, the art pieces Felicia stole were meant to symbolize what she thinks of Spidey. Namely, that she has developed a crush on him. No doubt because, despite trouncing him almost every time they've fought, she's clearly enjoyed all of it. And Spidey hasn't exactly helped in that regard as he has routinely flirted with her. He can't help it, she is hot. Felicia claims she wants to leave thieving behind, at the behest of her mother and she would like Spider-Man to help her reform. Seeing a similarity to a current situation with a girl he's instructing, and that Felicia might be suffering a bit of a mental break as a result of her father's death, he promises to get her help.

These introductory stories set the stage for Felicia and Peter's on again off again relationship for years to come. Felicia is self-servingly selfish, desiring things that aren't hers. Yet her motives are more complicated than pure greed, it is always based somewhat around her emotional state. Her need to give her father and mother some closure before she passes, her desire for Spider-Man to lead her out of a life of crime, as per her mother's wishes. She isn't evil, she has noble intent, she just goes about it in very self-centered ways. Spidey, in the meantime, is selfless to a fault. He'll keep chasing her down, he'll keep trying to set her straight, keep trying to stop her crime sprees. He is drawn to her by his selflessness and sense of responsibility to prevent her from just getting away with whatever she wants. But he does genuinely want to help her and he will not take advantage of her fragile emotional state, even if he himself is somewhat into her. Hell, the first thing he thinks about when he first sees her is that he hopes she isn't a criminal because he'd like to ask her out. He is clearly drawn to Felicia, even if it only starts out as pure infatuation, but he will not take advantage of her interest in him because he knows better than to try to exploit that for his own self-interest.

Of course it's a lie, well partially. Felicia faked being crazy to more easily escape a psychiatric hospital than a prison. But she is indeed in love with him. After her escape, she invites Spidey to a masquerade ball via a sky writer. Ultimately revealing that she lied to him about her mental breakdown in a selfish bid to escape consequences for her actions. But she wants to make up for it now, because this masquerade ball is being hosted by mafioso she stole from and says Spidey can now arrest them all! Crime is too easy she thinks, superheroing is her next thrill seeking adventure and she wants to do it with him. And despite being tricked and more than a little bribed into this, Spider-Man decides ultimately why not give it a try? If she really does want to go straight for him... isn't the responsible thing to do with her to help her out even if her motives are a tiny bit selfish?

This is how their romance starts and sets up the ultimate tug of war dynamic. Spider-Man does want Black Cat, but is wary of her desire to push him into a more selfish mindset. Black Cat actually desires Spider-Man, but can't get over her compulsive selfishness. In this story alone she has to sort of trick Spider-Man into coming to a date that's actually a mafioso party that he can break up. It's a highly manipulative plan that appeals to her selfish infatuation and Spider-Man's selfless heroism. It is a constant push and pull between them at multiple points. By all accounts, they should not work and a good deal of comics past this point go on and on about why they can't work.

I could cover the lengthy relationship between both characters throughout the 80s, Spidey was actually dating Felicia for a long time during the Black Suit days, even after he gave up the Symbiote. And for the most part this dynamic does not entirely change. Peter wants to help Black Cat be a better person before he can truly commit to her. Felicia wants to be a better person and make things work with Spider-Man, but she has a hard time wrapping her head around selfless action over selfish indulgence. It's the roadblock between them truly working as a couple. And there are a ton of moments during this time period I could talk about, but frankly, they are ALL before my time.

None of them really prove my point either, all I've done is just explain why their dynamic as a couple is riveting. It's not exactly like Batman and Catwoman's, but its of a similar vein. The key difference is Spider-Man, being who he is, isn't as opposed to the idea at first as Bruce is with Selina. Catwoman plays a lot harder to get for a lot longer than Black Cat, she also doesn't become Batman's superhero partner. Felicia and Peter by contrast are much younger though, so their reasoning is frankly more in line with their age demographic. They're just quicker to jump in than most people. The only thing holding them back is Black Cat and Spidey's diametrically opposed ideologies, even though we'll see those two viewpoints somewhat crisscross soon enough.

If you want to know however where I actually came in on this, we need to hop over to another universe. The one firmly positioned in the decade that defines the pop cultural wasteland... the 90s.

In an effort to compete with DC's Batman cartoon, Marvel fast tracked a Spider-Man show into production. While not on the same technical/narrative level as the landmark Batman: The Animated Series, Spider-Man: The Animated Series still did a tremendous job at capturing the essence of the character and is still a good series in its own. Even on a recent rewatch, I was surprised to see how well-thought out and true to form the series was. Yes, it's overuse of repeated animation and various other shortcuts was annoying, it certainly wasn't perfect, even by 90s standards, but it deserves recognition where it counts. Part of that was, in my opinion, the dynamic between Felicia and Peter Parker/Black Cat and Spider-Man. It certainly wasn't a slamdunk, I'm going to talk about where the writers fumbled it, but when it worked it worked and I think those parts where it worked so well were what cemented the idea in my head that this relationship, fraught as it was, COULD become something everlasting.

There's no hiding that Felicia's story is completely different from the comics. She actually knows Peter to begin with before she even becomes the Black Cat. They actually date for a while and despite the fact Peter is poorer than dirt, she is clearly interested in him and remains so for a good portion of season one. Peter's first kiss in the series is Felicia in fact. Even when MJ is in the picture, Peter is still torn between her and Felicia.

You might think we're dealing with a Betty and Veronica situation, but it never really materializes as such. Felicia and MJ never really meet this early and Felicia herself isn't really the rich girl stereotype. She's not particularly girlish or whinny. She doesn't really look down on anyone for their status. In fact she more often than not tries to rebel against the stereotype. She does a lot of charity work, she shows concern for the good of New York's citizens and she gives credit to those who deserve it, not just because they flatter her. She also gives Peter a lot of chances despite seemingly screwing up with her. She is reluctant at first to go out with him, but is not embarassed to be seen with him. The issue that arises is, from her perspective, Peter is never around when she gets in major trouble... but Spider-Man is. This become important later, but the thing to note is she is still close friends with Peter for a good amount of time and shows an interest in hm.

The only reason Felicia doesn't get with Peter is, again, Peter's terrible luck as a result of his responsibilities as Spider-Man. He accidentally stands Felicia up one too many times and she... ugh... ends up falling for Michael Morbius. Yes... that Morbius. No, we're not doing the meme. I only bring it up here because its one of the flaws in the show, Morbius as Felicia's love interest feels so incredibly out of place. It exists purely to prevent Felicia and Peter from getting together because nothing about it works. Morbius is hardly charming, he's somewhat of a creep, he's rude, abrasive and his petty rivalry with Peter just makes him unlikable. Its this petty bullshit rivalry, in fact, that causes Morbius' transformation into a Vampire monster in this continuity. Peter tries to claim responsibility for it because it was caused with his radioactive blood, but Morbius was an asshole and did it to himself. He's at fault and he sucks... pun not intended, not entirely. But because he's doing all this to stop a plague in his home country, and he saves Felicia this one time when Peter doesn't show, we're supposed to buy that she's smitten with him. And I do not buy it. In fact, I'd argue the show's writers didn't even buy it and were somewhat forced to do this so they wouldn't step on the iconic romance with Peter and MJ.

Morbius' subsequent flight into exile, as he basically becomes a mutant bat monster, starts an ongoing subplot with Felicia, the fact she has seemingly terrible luck with men. Early on, after Morbius has left her life, Felicia begins to develop a crush on Spider-Man, as at this point he's been there for her more than most other men in her life, saving her or her mother. Spider-Man, as a result, has become a very huge constant staple in her life, more so than any other man as far she can see. Peter, despite his messy love life, does care for Felicia, and is very quick to jump in to help her whenever she is in trouble. Partially because of his connection to her, partly because he still blames himself for Morbius' transformation. So Peter is spending a lot of time as Spider-Man with Felicia at this point, more so than MJ even who is dating Harry Osborn for a while. As far as Felicia is concerned, Spider-Man has become something akin to a knight in shining armor who is always there for her. She can't help but fall for him.

She reveals this by suddenly kissing him on the balcony, pulling up the mask half-way and everything. Peter, however, says he can't reciprocate, as much as he probably still has feelings for Felicia. He says he can't have a girlfriend though because it would put her in danger. It's bunk of course, he's still trying to be with MJ even though she's currently with Harry, but I imagine it plants an idea in Felicia's head. Regardless, for now she's crestfallen and this leads her into the arms of another man, Jason Phillips Macendale, a rich well to do playboy-type. Even still, she retains her feelings Spider-Man throughout their relationship. There is a scene at a carnival where Jason wins a stuffed Spider for her, which she remarks she finds spiders cute while he acts rather annoyed and jealous over it. Despite the fact she very clearly still wants Spidey to be with her, Felicia does agree to marry Jason when he proposes.

At the engagement party, which Peter attends with MJ as she has dumped Harry at this point, he changes into Spider-Man to spy on the Kingpin and Osborn over some business with the Hobgoblin. Annoyed he has to leave MJ to deal with this problem, he's interrupted by Felicia.

She asks if he's here to wish her good luck and Peter fumbles his words in saying as much. Which leads to this exchange:

Spidey: Do you really love this Jason Phillips guy?

Felicia: And why should you care about that? Unless you got a better offer?

Spidey: (Thoughts) This is crazy, I can't have one girlfriend as Peter Parker and another as Spider-Man! (Speaking) No, I don't... I just want you to be happy.

As Spidey swings away, Felicia mournfully says "So do I." It's a very clear statement, she's settling. Jason is rich and powerful and the person she's expected to marry due to who she is, but she's not really sure about it, or happy. Because the man she wants is currently swinging away. It's obvious that, in Felicia's eyes, she's missing something in her life that makes her happy and Spider-Man seems to be that something. Likewise, Peter, the paragon of self-responsibility, knows he can't abuse his secret identity to cheat on MJ, even though he seems very tempted to admit that he still has feelings for Felicia. But in the end, all he cares about is her happiness and if she can find it in this Jason dude, who is he to ruin that?

Well, he doesn't have to ruin it. Because we find out, shock of all shocks, Jason is the Hobgoblin and the revelation shakes Felicia to her core. The fact that this person she was dating, this man who she decided on because she couldn't have Spider-Man was a fraud, a criminal, a liar... it's a terrible thing to realize how poor your judgment is. Almost reaffirming that this was the wrong choice from the start.

Spidey of course once again comes swinging to her rescue and defeats the Hobgoblin. But Felicia has questions for her former fiancé. Jason relents that he used crime to create everything he is and get everything he has, including her. She's just another possession to him. What she deep down probably feared going into this, why her heart wasn't in this, why she wanted Spider-Man to give her a way out and save her again.

Felicia: I have to know, did you ever really love me?

Jason: I don't know. I love things about you. Your wealth, your beauty, your refinement.

Felicia: That's not love! I've experienced true love... and it's nothing like that.

And we don't get a flashback to Morbius, as this show constantly does because it's very not subtle, we don't see her talk about bat boy at all. She looks directly at Spider-Man as she says this and the camera zooms in on him as she speaks those words. This overtly informs the audience what love means in Felicia's mind. Love in Felicia's mind is being there for someone, who Spider-Man has been for a long time now. And more importantly, it's about wanting that person to be happy, which was all Spider-Man said he ever wanted. Spidey never asked anything of Felicia, he was just there for her and perhaps, in Felicia's mind, the reason he can't return it is because she can't be there in the same way. She is after all a damsel who he needs to keep saving and Spider-Man made it an issue that they can't be together because she'd be in danger.

In fact, this incident has given Felicia a complex that alludes to her future. "Every time I give my heart to someone, disaster strikes!" She sobs to Spider-Man. "I'm like a Black Cat spreading bad luck to everyone who crosses my path! Including my own."

By the next season things have taken a turn for the tragic, Mary Jane has vanished into realms unknown after mirroring Gwen Stacey's fall from a bridge into an interdimensional portal. As far as Peter knows though she's just gone, maybe forever. They can't say dead on this show, you know how it is.

This would probably leave the door back open for Felicia, but Peter is in no mental condition for another relationship right now and Felicia is smitten with Spider-Man, not Peter. Although he does wonder if she could help him with his grief as he swings over to her apartment. Not to say she doesn't care for Peter, but her heart belongs to his masked vigilante persona. In fact, so much so that she proclaims that Spider-Man is the only good thing in her life during that same visit. (Granted this is after an attack by Doctor Octopus, but the point stands) It's obvious that Felicia is now clinging to Spider-Man as one of the few constants in her life at this point, what with repeatedly being placed in danger by monsters and maniacs. The lack of control and helplessness is eating at her terribly.

However, this does lead into what we've all been waiting for, Felicia's transformation into the Black Cat and the start of the multi-episode season storyline, "Partners in Danger."

Felicia's father isn't just a cat burglar anymore. It turns out he got a peek at the formula for the Super Soldier serum back in WW2. He was almost tricked into giving it to the Nazis but managed to evade them. He was a kid at the time and was on the run for several decades. He's been in SHIELD custody for the past few years, until now when the Chameleon breaks him out only to hand him over to the Kingpin. Soon after, Doctor Octopus kidnaps Felicia and brings him to Fisk to reunite her with her father. And basically blackmail her into performing crimes for Fisk to test out the Super Soldier formula.

Yes, the Black Cat in the 90s Animated Series is basically a super soldier thief. It is suggested its not a complete process, but it grants Felicia more capability than she used to have. As the Black Cat she's now stronger, faster, more agile, versatile and has heightened senses. She's basically a mini-Captain America sans shield and a less patriotic aesthetic. Also, the Serum allows her to completely alter herself, her hair turns white and grows longer, while she also becomes more ripped and taller. This is so people won't really recognize her, an important detail for later.

While it's obvious Felicia hates being forced to go along with this to protect her father, she doesn't hate the new powers she's been granted and seeks to use them to eventually turn the tables on Fisk and save her dad. However, for the time being she gets in more than a few scrapes with Spider-Man, one of which leaves him knocked out in front of her. She considers pulling off his mask, but decides against it, preferring him to do it for her himself. She does plant a kiss though, the first of many as the Black Cat. The sequence is clear, Felicia is no longer the damsel but Spider-Man's equal and she hopes that this means things can change.

True, Felicia still gets into trouble and Spider-Man has to save her before the episode is out, but they actually do come together as partners by the end and effectively work together to defeat Fisk and save her father. Sadly, he has to return to SHIELD custody, of his own free will, to prevent the secrets he knows from ever getting out. I'd kinda like to to think they would give him a more witness protection situation than imprisonment for the guy, even if he did become a thief. It's SHIELD though, it's kinda expected they don't always do the sensible thing.

However this sets up the dynamic for the next few episodes as Black Cat and Spider-Man work together more and more. Spider-Man is reluctant at first, still mourning Mary Jane, but Black Cat manages to shake him out of that stupor. Reminding him not to close himself off in his grief. And Spidey himself remarks, as he and Black Cat work together, that he's actually having fun for once as Spider-Man. This is something to keep in mind, Black Cat actually challenges Spider-Man more often than not throughout their time together. Pushing him to remember why he does this job, stopping his pity parties cold, reminding him to not see his power as a burden that he so often does and as a gift he uses to help people. Even if she's not the same self-serving Felicia from the comics, as the Black Cat she embraces the liberated self her persona grants her. She's finally being able to do the things that her position as a rich socialite kept from her. Her stance is that Spider-Man can afford to think about what he wants and what makes him happy as much as his own responsibilities.

Frankly, it gets through to Peter. As time goes on, Spider-Man becomes more receptive to the idea that he should move on from MJ and be with Black Cat, a fellow crime fighter, on his level who can look after herself as much as him. This has been the problem Spider-Man has faced for a while, being able to protect the people he cares about despite his powers seemingly always getting in the way. In the same vein, Felicia's newfound abilities enable her to be Spidey's equal. Allowing her the opportunity to see him as a person and not just the superhero who saves her. This gives her the ability to challenge, as well as compliment him, as pointed out.

Their dynamic frankly rings more true and honest as a relationship. Even MJ never pushed Peter in the same way Black Cat pushes Spidey to be better. That's not to say MJ was a bad girlfriend, but on the show... she frankly resembled the comics version of Gwen Stacey personality wise. Black Cat may have been in love with Spider-Man, but that never stopped her from telling him off when he got something wrong. She had her own opinions and views on how this relationship worked and despite clashing with Spidey, they always seemed to be getting closer and more intimate every time she crossed his path.

That is until the goddamn Vampire comes back and ruins it all, because Felicia still has feelings for Morbius, I guess. In fact, he comes back so soon and suddenly, just as Peter is thinking of committing to Black Cat as Spider-Man, that it again feels like a mandate from on high. They're getting too close to each other, we can't have that, break them up by making Morbius a thing again. And quite frankly it feels forced because the only thing that seemingly prevents Spidey and Cat from sealing the deal is that neither of them have guessed at who the other is.

This is despite the fact that the Black Cat is obviously Felicia, given her very close relationship with Felicia's father that she doesn't even try to hide at all during her introductory episode. But Spidey has been consistently dense when it comes to secret identities, he couldn't even figure out Matt Murdock and Daredevil were the same person under similar circumstances. Using excuses THAT HE HIMSELF USES to cover his ass as Spider-Man. For being so smart, Peter is incredibly slow on the uptake when it comes to guessing Black Cat's identity despite how damn obvious it is. Not that Felicia is honestly much better, as both before and after this there are a number of clues to Spidey's true identity. Like... she kissed Peter AS Peter, she should know that mouth!

But the fact is, and this is where the forced editorial mandate thing comes in, that if they ever found out who the other was... that would be the end for any possible Peter and MJ relationship at this point. Felicia would finally realize why Peter seemed to never be around when she was in trouble, it's because he was Spider-Man. And given that Felicia's reasoning for being in love with Spider-Man is, again, the fact she feels he's always been there for her, she'd realize her most long standing intimate REAL relationship was with Peter all along! Peter in turn would realize that Felicia, the girl he first had a crush on, the one he was most conflicted about getting with before MJ vanished, a person he still has strong feelings for, is also the person who taught him to love again after MJ vanished. A friend he cares about who is now on his level and has also been there for him! There would be no way they couldn't get together at that point, or at the very least it would be very hard for Peter to decide between her and MJ from then on.

But no, the adventure with the returned Morbius leads to Felicia deciding to go with the creep Mutant Vampire and Blade to hunt other vampires and leave Spider-Man behind, just as he was about to be with her. Of course, Peter doesn't put two and two together that Cat is leaving with Morbius because as established he's an idiot when it comes to this stuff. If he was smarter, he'd have figured it out right now and probably revealed himself to her, and that would create a conflict and probably make her question this frankly boneheaded and nonsensical decision. So no, Felicia and Peter never find out each other's secret identities and she goes off with Morbius leaving Peter alone for no really good reason other than this felt like the fastest way to break them up so MJ could slide back in.

And MJ does slide back in, not long after this episode in fact and Spider-Man quickly fast tracks to proposing to her, revealing his secret identity, the works. However, Felicia isn't out of his life as MJ still keeps getting into trouble, constantly. At the wedding, Black Cat returns to make sure Peter's big day doesn't get ruined, because she does care about Peter even if she isn't with him. She does this again when MJ is seemingly kidnapped, first comforting Peter as Felicia reassuring him during a moment of hopelessness and then becoming Black Cat again to track down MJ for Peter.

And she admits aloud that she's doing this because she doesn't think she made the right call to follow Morbius and Blade, she still has feelings for Spidey, even though he's loyal and committed to MJ. Again, Felicia does not put two and two together given how gung-ho Spidey is for finding MJ. This also marks the only time MJ and the Black Cat meet, it's very quick, Peter has to answer a few obvious questions. After all that, Felicia decides to head back to Transylvania and once again Peter doesn't put two and two together that Felicia and Black Cat are back in town right at the same time. Because he's stupid like that.

What's important to note is that Felicia will drop everything for Peter, which suggests to me, on some subconscious level, she knows who Spider-Man is. And the fact she's still playing mental support coach to Peter, even outside of their secret identities, speaks volumes for their bond and connection. Even outside of the Black Cat persona and without directly knowing it, Felicia is there for Spider-Man when he needs her, just as much as he was for her.

But of course, all of this is for naught concerning Mary Jane's fate. Because... this is not Mary Jane. This hasn't been Mary Jane since she returned at the end of last season and conclusion of "Partners in Danger." Because we've been doing a random ass Clone Saga deal this whole time! This MJ, the one Peter married, shared his secrets with, probably most likely banged... wasn't his MJ. She was a clone created by Miles Warren who can use frickin water powers like Hydro Man because Hydro Man is an asshole ex who is obsessed with MJ and wanted his own version of her. But she wandered off, blah blah blah, point is her clone stability is breaking down and she's gonna evaporate. Cue one of the most gut wrenching screams in animation history.

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So yeah, Peter never got the real Mary Jane back, only to be set up for heartache all over again. One could argue he probably loved this Mary Jane more. Sure he thought she was the original, but everything he experienced with her were steps he was unwilling to take with the real one. Similar to how Felicia has been feeling conflicted, one has to imagine Peter is even more so at this point on several other levels. Not that he has much time to mourn though. Madame Web has returned after a long absence from the series and she has war for him to fight, a Secret War.

In a very loose adaptation of the original Marvel Comics Event, Spider-Man is tasked by the Beyonder to lead a team of superheroes to liberate a planet that has fallen to villains he's plucked from Earth. This becomes a bit of a crossover between pretty much every Fox Entertainment Marvel Cartoon running at the time. From X-Men to Iron Man to the Fantastic Four, not Hulk though, Hulk rights are always a problem. But even after he's picked all the heroes he can afford to recruit, like any Gamer he can't resist modding shit to give him more stuff. And of all the heroes and allies he could pick to increase his ranks... he chooses the Black Cat.

It's a fairly odd choice honestly. Spidey has worked with a lot of heroes, maybe not as extensively as the Black Cat, but he's fought beside Doctor Strange, he knows other X-Men who are on Storm's level or at least just as capable. But he picks Black Cat. He picks her despite knowing that Madame Web knows the Real Mary Jane's location and promises it as a reward if he helps her. He picks Black Cat, despite knowing she is currently with Morbius and Blade. Makes one wonder... why?

Felicia isn't happy with this herself, because she just got pulled away in the middle of a vampire slaying fight. Don't worry, they're fine. It's Blade he'll manage without her.

...

What? Oh Morbius, yeah I guess he'll survive too just by being in close proximity to Blade. Have I mentioned I hate Morbius?

Anyway, the point is Black Cat is none too happy get pulled into Spidey's adventures against her will, like he can just do that on a whim. She's kinda right to be angry at him and she is for a good portion of the episode. When Spidey explains he picked her because he needs her support and they work good as a team, Felicia rightly says that he can't just rip her away from things because he needs to hold her hand. She'll be more than willing to do so on her own, he doesn't need to ask, he just shouldn't force her. It's a surprising role reversal, with Spider-Man being a bit more selfish than usual and Black Cat outwardly demanding to know when Spider-Man is gonna grow up. A question many comics fans wonder themselves to this day.

Spider-Man's ultimate ulterior motives are a bit more obvious though when he gets pretty jealous over Captain America and Black Cat bonding over her having the super soldier serum. And it doesn't help that Cap keeps kinda outshining him constantly when he saves Felicia a few times. But to be fair, Steve Rogers does that with everyone.

After the mission that topples the Red Skull ends, Spidey does apologize for taking Felicia against her will into this war. But she's no longer angry. Taking part in a mission bigger than even vampire slaying is important, a big deal, and if there is one thing Felicia has wanted its to not be left out of a fight for something bigger than herself. Plus, she get's to do it beside the greatest hero of all time. Spidey thinks she means Cap, but she corrects him, she's talking about the Web Head. Despite not being as perfect as Captain America, Spider-Man did prove himself out there as a leader to her and she admits she wouldn't want to miss this action with him for anything. Despite not wanting to be here initially, Felicia ultimately can't get over the fact Spider-Man wanted HER here with him. And given their last meeting had him coldly rejecting her advances, it says to Felicia that Spidey still feels for her and she clearly does too. Black Cat then kisses Spider-Man... and it's the last kiss he'll ever receive in the series. That's right, Peter's first and last kisses on this show come from Felicia. How do you not expect anyone to read into that?

No matter what lame line Morbius tries to give at the end of the episode, Felicia's heart doesn't really belong to him. It is very evident, crystal clear, painfully obvious, to anyone paying attention, that Felicia and Peter, on this series at the very least, were specially connected. Maybe not at first, but Felicia became someone who could match Spider-Man, physically and mentally, in many ways. And it's undeniable that, regardless of anything else, Peter held feelings for both Felicia and her Super Thief persona. Their banter was perfect, their partnership was top notch, the chemistry was amazing. The only thing keeping them apart was a story writing mandate from on high that they could not be endgame. Even though the writers took every chance they could nab to put them together. To shove Felicia back into Peter's life, even after she went off Slaying it up with Morbius. When I rewatched the series, it became painfully obvious who the writers seemed to prefer Peter with. None of this is to knock MJ as a character, on this show or in the comics, but it's hard for me to buy that there wasn't some kind of bias towards Felicia given everything that happens in this show.

Or maybe they just wanted an excuse to keep bringing Jennifer Hale back, I don't know! But I still choose to think that someone on that writing staff wanted a different endgame. It's been known to happen, creative teams aren't immune to shipping. Avatar the Last Airbender apparently had an ongoing tug of war between the executive producers and some of the writers over whether Katara would pick Zuko or Aang. It honestly feels like something similar happened here and as a result it comes across as the best evidence in my mind that this relationship could work. And the insane reality that less than a decade after Spider-Man TAS concluded, a show that did everything to ensure Spider-Man never got with the Black Cat because Peter/MJ were too iconic to not happen... One More Day drops and Peter has barely been with MJ for more than a single run out of several writers since. Said single writer being Nick Spencer, the Hydra Cap guy! Possibly in an effort to redeem himself from being the Hydra Cap Guy.

But I digress, as one can plainly see concerning this short retrospective of the series above, the 90s Cartoon has been over for a long time. Next year, it will be thirty years old. I can point out how it could've worked in that show, but that does nothing to prove Felicia and Peter ever have a chance now. All it shows is that I have a nostalgic attachment to this pairing because of an animated series. One with a highly different set of canonical circumstances between Spidey and the Black Cat that were crafted uniquely for this show alone. Circumstances that are worlds apart from the comics.

And that's because, as loathe as I am to admit it, Peter and Felicia's relationship has always had roadblocks in every piece of media involving them before and since. And I would be remiss if I didn't address any of those before I can start proving its viability now. If I don't I'll just have to do it later anyway. We'll look at how SpiderCat appears in other works as we go through this, but we need to head back to comic book land if we're really going to lay down what's actually keeping these two apart, and it's not the very weak contrivances preventing them from figuring out the obvious like in the 90s cartoon. No, it goes deeper than that. As you can see here.

90s Felicia wanted Spidey to unmask for her, but Comics!Felicia has had a hang up about that for a long while. This is the crux, the problem, with their relationship. The thing that always comes up when SpiderCat shippers argue for it. Comics!Black Cat loves Spider-Man... not Peter Parker. And mixing the two is too much for her to bare. This is what put strain on their relationship, Felicia didn't want her fantasy ruined by knowing the man behind the mask. Peter being an ordinary guy shatters her illusions about his prowess and ability. The phrase "Anyone can wear the mask" comes to mind and as long as Peter wears it for the Black Cat that is true. Take it off and Peter's normality leaks into things.

As a result, the main problem is Felicia can't love a man like Peter, who has a normal life outside of his superheroing. Felicia doesn't want normal, she likes what she is, who she is, doesn't want to go back to it. She wants to be the Black Cat because as the Cat she can do and get whatever she wants. Peter is, again, weighed down by responsibilities. While Felicia, once again, desires her independence from everything, including responsibility. Felicia would rather Spider-Man give up being Peter and just be the hero who swept her off her feet full time. To forever chase her across the rooftops and do what they want whenever they want. She's fine if that means fighting bad guys... so long as they're not tied down to normality. But Peter can't do that, he can never do that, not as long as he has ties to his life as Peter. And that's probably why Wells is considering severing a pretty big tie to that in order to make sure SpiderCat can't be reversed so easily. Can't really blame him for that though, given how comics are in constant flux. (Remember This)

This sort of issue is constantly reinforced. In the Spider-Man 2 video game, based off the Sam Raimi sequel, The "Spidey's loss of his powers" sub-plot is replaced by Black Cat trying to seduce him away into forever crime-fighting as his relationship with Mary Jane becomes strained due to her upcoming marriage to Jonah Jameson's son. Their dynamic matches the comics pretty well... and that means Spidey eventually breaks it off with her, saying he can't abandon his real life to forever play superhero with her. He needs a balance and that means he can't see her anymore. She leaves amicably, but it's sad to see happen.

In the Spider-Man: Web of Shadows game, Black Cat is revealed to still have feelings for Spider-Man and wants to be back together with him. This is pretty bad timing given the symbiote invasion going on. As the game is using the then popular trend of multiple choice endings there is one where you can have Black Cat be with Spider-Man at the end. It requires you basically healing her after a fight with your black suit, turning her into a Venomized version of herself. You can still pick the good ending after this where you defeat the Symbiotes, but all you know for sure is that MJ and him are on quits. You only see Felicia again if you pick the bad ending where Spider-Man breaks bad fully and decides to lead a symbiote army with Felicia by his side. Further emphasizing the idea that Peter can't pick being with Felicia without abandoning everything that makes him who he is.

There's also Spectacular Spider-Man, the other beloved Spider-Man animated series. Shorter-lived, but just as impactful. Where Spidey and Black Cat seem to hit it off during the start of Peter's whole symbiote storyline. Their banter is great, the chemistry fits, Felicia and Pete seem destined to be star-crossed opposite sides of the law lovers. However, when they meet up again Felicia is breaking her father out as she usually does... but the twist this time is Felicia's father is the one who shot Uncle Ben.

Naturally this completely wrecks any goodwill concerning Black Cat and Spidey's second meeting. As from here on out he's adamant Felicia's dad is not getting out. While it turns out Dad doesn't want to leave either and he decides to sacrifice his chance at freedom to stop a mass jailbreak of supervillains, that changes little. Spider-Man does not forgive Felicia's father and Felicia blames Spider-Man for infecting her dad with sentimentality. Even knowing he took an innocent life, all Felicia sees is her dad rotting away in jail. She declares she'll never forgive Spider-Man for this and rushes off in anger. The series ended shortly thereafter and this was never resolved. Greg Weisman, the show's creator, says if it had continued the relationship would've been "fraught." And once again this is the typical line concerning the fact Felicia's selfish desires run up against Spider-Man's heroic responsibility. And letting a criminal get away, especially one that killed his Uncle, is just something he can't do.

And I could go on, there are a ton of examples of this very problematic element of the relationship. It's the thing Marvel has consistently used to explain why Peter and Felicia aren't the right fit. Any romance would require either character to make sacrifices they are incapable of. Namely Felicia's independence and Peter's Responsibilities. Marvel itself decided to set this in stone to a degree with the usual question they ask... "What If?"

"What if... Spider-Man Married the Black Cat?" is the second part of a longer What If storyline answering what would happen if Peter and MJ did not get married. (HA! After OMD, one cannot help but laugh!) And as much as that cover paints wedded bliss... it's anything but. Felicia and Peter come to blows repeatedly, unable to reconcile their differences. Their goals are far too distant from each other overall and they just can't find common ground. By the end of the issue, Felicia lies dead, Spider-Man heart broken and the grim reality that this romance could never work is cemented in stone it seems. "What Ifs" aren't definitive statements about the only possible outcomes for the Marvel universe. But they are definitive statements from Marvel itself, a decree from on high that the current continuity, for all its faults, could be so much worse and we should be happy for what we have. And while the issue is loaded with nice panels that any SpiderCat fan would adore, the end result is still plain as day. Felicia and Peter are too oil and water to ever mix. And the end result would be the destruction of one or both.

How do you overcome the dreadful reality that your ship is declared doomed forever by the very company that in some sense set it in motion? Not just because Spider-Man can never be happy, but because the Black Cat is just too toxic a girlfriend to ever truly make him happy. Everyone argued that MJ and Peter's marriage was boring but they didn't want him to get with the next best option either because they think it's non-compatible, that they're just too different and of opposing thoughts to ever reach common ground.

And Marvel has tried to permanently set that in stone in canon once. To forever place SpiderCat as beyond possible, to sever their connection as decades long allies... and all because of an octopus in the brain.

The image above is not that of Peter Parker fighting the Black Cat. This is Doctor Otto Octavius, piloting Peter's body after jacking his mind. This is the Superior Spider-Man, and he does not care about Peter's past infatuations. He's here to prove he's the better Spider-Man and that means apprehending all criminals. In an otherwise re-affirming storyline that proves Peter Parker is the true Superior Spider-Man, Otto failing to live up to his lofty ambitious boasts, this scene... this one bloody scene, leads to the absolute low point period for all SpiderCat Fans. I call it the "Bitch Be Crazy" Era, an offensive title for a frankly offensively disgusting sub-plot in the Spider Run post-Superior.

Peter Parker informs all his Superhero buddies that Doc Ock had taken over his body for a long time, explaining his shitty behavior for the past year or so. Most everyone's response is "Oh, yeah, that's obvious in hindsight." Not Felicia.

The tables have turned, now Felicia has broke bad, but for real. And there is no way to describe what she becomes but extremely out of character. She doesn't accept Spider-Man's explanation, she doesn't even care. She is now obsessed with becoming the next Kingpin of Crime, a murderous, merciless mob boss who pulls the strings of supervillains, all in a bid to destroy Spider-Man and all he holds dear and it's absolutely, completely, stupidly, idiotically terrible. No matter how selfish Felicia can be, this is NOT her. Felicia has never shown any desire to be a crime boss, to be feared. Her desires have always been thrill seeking, shiny things and not being told what she can and can't do. She might be violent, but she is not a cold-blooded killer. She might be cynical, but she is not this petty. Every element of this terrible subplot makes no sense unless she's absolutely lost her mind or been replaced by a Skrull.

The only fun thing in this whole mess, was that Gwenpool's first in-universe story took place during this sub-plot and she crossed paths with her. And then did this.

I guess that justifies putting a Gwenpool tag below somewhere. Win for me!

Suffice to say, no one liked this change. Everyone hated it, even more than Superior Spider-Man. People came around on that, no one liked Felicia the Big Black Cat of Crime. Dan Slott could never justify it because it made no sense that Felicia would care this much about street cred because Spider-Man beat her up. As if there isn't a single crook in New York at this point who can claim Spider-Man hasn't knocked out one of their teeth. Others tried to explain it, to give it a more sensible face. There was an explanation in the Silk comic, but it didn't really stick as something that would drive her to this extreme. Regardless, it was a dark time for SpiderCat Shipping Fandom. And it took way longer than it should've to fix it all.

But it did get fixed and that brings me the counter to ALL of this stuff that stands in Peter and Felicia's way. And that is that no matter how much things stay the same, comics always inevitably change and so do the characters in them. We like to pretend that the way we see a lot of the characters in comics now has just always been them. But no, they're not. Batman used to carry a gun in his early days, Superman didn't always fly, Captain America, a WW2 Veteran, claimed he never killed anyone for a short time, Deadpool didn't always break the 4th Wall and Starlord used to be a lot more of a straight edged serious space hero and not a rock music lovin' dancin' fool of a rogue Han Solo. Tastes change, writers change, people change... and so has Felicia.

Felicia hasn't always been honest with Peter, she's tricked him into chasing her, played him to get away with a score, gotten superpowers from Kingpin in an effort to keep up with him which led to their first break up, she even dated Flash Thompson trying to make him jealous. But if one thing has been consistent, it's that Felicia can't help but cross back into Peter's life. And in the process, because she cares, even loves him, there are things she's had to accept, to admit to. And chief among them is Peter Parker is Spider-Man and Peter Parker's life is as if not more important to him than just being Spider-Man. She hasn't only loved Spider-Man for years at this point, for a long time. She loves both. and she is willing to accept both. If there is any problem, it's Peter accepting Felicia for who she is... which is a better person than even she gives herself credit for.

Spider-Man wouldn't be partnering up with Felicia so often if he didn't believe there was more to her than just a shallow thief. And the influence has affected Felicia, she's admitted as much. Maybe her shift to doing good was set off by a crush, but she owned that change and she kept pushing herself. She'll never have a strict moral compass, but she does know what the right choice is at the end of the day, what feels right. And when Spider-Man needs an ally, he can call on her as much as anyone. Spider-Man being in her life has only been a net positive for Felicia, Peter being with her has only been a net positive. And that brings us back to her time as a lame crime boss and how they fixed her. Because there's a better, deeper, actually meaningful reason for their schism besides Felicia's loss of street cred.

She forgot the man she loved and changed for.

Yep, we're factoring One More Day into this thing proper like. After an adventure with Venom and Spidey, dealing with some symbiote nonsense, Felicia is convinced to hash it out with the Wall Crawler. And she admits to him that she lost something, his face. When Spider-Man made the world forget who he was under the mask it affected Felicia too. All her memories, all the time spent with Peter post reveal, everything that she knew about the man behind the mask... it was either gone or in a fog. She can't remember all those times that Peter trusted her with who he was and it has been eating her up inside for years! And Spider-Man never thought about how that would affect her, a person he's loved, been intimate with, and at least now cares about. That was an important time in her life and it's just gone now. And it may be selfish to want all of it back and even demand it back... but she's right. Those memories were hers and Spidey took them away. And Spider-Man, being selfless as he is, can't just let that stand anymore.

Everyone says Felicia only loves Spider-Man, but that's not true. She may love the Spider... but she changed for the Man. She cherishes that time she had with that Man. And it's hard to believe that she doesn't love the Man as much as the Spider because, ultimately, they are the same person. That's the other difference between this and Bruce/Selina. Bruce Wayne is the mask for the boy who died in that alleyway, Batman is who he's been since that day. Peter and Spider-Man are the same person, it's why he can't leave either persona behind. And Felicia has long since accepted that, and that has never changed how she feels about him until she lost who he was beneath the mask. Now it's all back, the highs and lows of that tumultuous time in her life when she fell for a Spider and came to love the Man. It doesn't heal everything, but it repairs the bond that was broken so long ago and so unintentionally.

There is, however, another argument being floated around these days I have to address. That even if Felicia can accept the man beneath the mask, do either really NEED each other? I'd point to all the stuff above that shows how that's simply not true, but there's more to it than that. Love isn't always about what you need, it's just as much about what you want. And I'm not talking about a person or thing, not something material. What does Felicia want? What does Peter want?

Felicia wants to be more than what she is, always has been. She wants thrills, she wants to be her true self and I feel Spider-Man brings out those qualities more than any of her other boy or girlfriends, especially since he started her path to change and growth. She stops being selfish and reacts more selfless. His influence on her is undeniable and she knows as much as anyone. She'll never be a good girl, but she'll at least be a better one than she is without him in her life.

Peter wants to be at peace, to be happy with who he is, to not always feel burdened. Felicia has always been one of the ways he's released that burden, he's been happy with her. Sure he's been happy with others, but Felicia has met him on a level that none of them could, she's been able to be in the thick of it with him. She's been able to share the burden. She's been able to be an active participant. With her around, Peter's world as a superhero doesn't feel so lonely. And maybe, if Felicia could accept the man as much as it seems she has, so too could she accept Peter's regular life.

In Taylor Swift's song, Anti-Hero, she reflects on how exhausting for her it's been that she hasn't seemed to learn anything and keeps making the same mistakes over and over. And if you pay attention to the lyics enough, they start describing Felicia Hardy pretty well.

I should not be left to my own devices They come with prices and vices I end up in crisis (tale as old as time) I wake up screaming from dreaming One day I'll watch as you're leaving 'Cause you got tired of my scheming (For the last time)

However, just as much of it can sorta apply to Spider-Man as well. His heroic selflessness is frankly a very long depressing slog of him being unable to forgive himself for letting down Uncle Ben, placing all the blame on his shoulders and then repeating that process whenever his great power can never live up to his great responsibility.

Did you hear my covert narcissism I disguise as altruism Like some kind of congressman? (Tale as old as time) I wake up screaming from dreaming One day I'll watch as you're leaving And life will lose all its meaning (For the last time)

When it comes to Spider-Man and the Black Cat, a lot of the things that make them unhappy are self-inflicted. Lewis Lovhaug of "Atop the Fourth Wall" Fame has argued that the problem with Spider-Man in a lot of modern stories is that he never learns from anything. He hasn't done enough to improve himself as Spider-Man or as Peter Parker, he just keeps feeling sorry for himself that one gets in the way of the other. And frankly, the same curse has affected Felicia. Because a lot of what has prevented her from being with Spider-Man has been herself. Ultimately both will, as the song says, always look towards the bright sun of what they think they want, but never in the mirror. They'll hurt themselves, never realizing that they're the source of their own dissatisfaction with how their lives are. It must be exhausting always rooting for the anti-hero, especially when its yourself.

Maybe Peter and Felicia don't need each other, but they do need someone to set them straight and get them to stop believing their own bullshit. To make them stare away from the sun and into the mirror. Because they are each exactly the kind of person who would do that for the other, in fact they've been doing it for as long as they've been together. Their bond is stronger than people give it credit for.

Early on in their relationship, Black Cat was badly injured and has to be rushed to a hospital. Helpless to really do anything, Peter could only stand by her bedside and hope she'd be okay again. For all his power, once more, he can't do anything but just stay with her. And actually, that's enough.

But come now, would Felicia ever do the same for Peter you ask? Well... during a recent story event, Spider-Man was badly injured and slips into a coma. But there was one person constantly by his side throughout it.

This isn't derogatory, Felicia is clearly lamenting the fact that someone so good who does everything so selflessly despite no thanks or praise, is so constantly placed into situations like this. It's unfair to her. It's why she's here now, like he was for her. And just like before...

It's Felicia who gets the first response out of him. Claim all you want that Felicia doesn't need Peter, that she's moved past him, that Peter and MJ are too perfect for each other, that the Black Cat can't ever settle down like Peter probably wants or that Peter can never really be there for Felicia in the way she wants. But I don't buy it. And stuff like this is why.

No matter how much bad luck she is, Spider-Man wants and in some ways needs the Black Cat is in his life. And no matter how much she can try and say she's over it, The Black Cat will always find a way to cross paths with her Spider.

In the recent PS4 Spider-Man game, Felicia came back after a stint of going straight to prepare for a major strike back against Hammerhead and the Maggia families. She coerces Spider-Man into another of her games where she steals $50 Million worth of stuff and forces him to chase her around the city to find it all. She leaves the loot behind though, because it was all trick to break into the police evidence lockup and snag her old gear. But she did leave Peter a cool new suit, a reference to the time when Felicia made a new black suit for Peter after giving up his symbiote. You know, so they match.

Felicia's little game comes to fruition when "The Heist" DLC comes out. Felicia strings Spidey along, pretending Hammerhead has her son, strongly implying its his. Ultimately this is revealed to have been a lie of course, another game. Because this, to Felicia, is basically the perfect date night. Spider-Man chases her, they team up, she gets what she wants and runs off into the night. In this case the entire wealth of the Maggia after double crossing Hammerhead. This gets a target on her back instantly. Spider calls her to warn her, leaving Felicia more than a little surprised.

Felicia: I just conned you and here you are trying to save me. How can you be so damn nice all the time?

Spidey: It's not about being nice, it's about doing the right thing! You have so many talents, I wish you'd use them to help someone other than yourself.

Felicia: Yeah well, you should know by now that's not how I roll.

Spidey: People can change, Felicia.

Felicia: Love you, Spider. I'll miss you.

Felicia's penthouse explodes and she appears to die. But eagle eyed players would notice the puff smoke just before the bomb goes off. The Black Cat fakes her death more than Doctor Doom uses robots. Felicia got away, scot-free, with all the money she could ever need or want. She conned Spider-Man, Hammerhead and everyone. She won hands down and can do whatever she wants from now on. No one will be looking for her. Hammerhead's plans to utilize weapons of war to take over the city isn't her problem.

And yet...

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Felicia comes back to help Spider-Man, knowing it will basically put her on the radar again given everything she's stolen. She doesn't stay, but she saves him and gives him the means to take Hammerhead down. No matter what anyone thinks of Felicia, especially herself, she is not nearly as incapable of being selfless as one thinks. And this is true of most of her incarnations. Perhaps because the Black Cat will do anything to get what she wants, even if it means turning over a new leaf for her Spider. It's how this all started after all. Selfish Selflessness, it's probably the best middle ground Peter can hope for. But at least it means he can count on her, to be selfish. And that's why she'll always be there for him. Felicia doesn't like to lose the things she has.

I think it also says a lot that many players felt that Peter and Felicia's chemistry was loads more interesting and compelling than his relationship with the estranged version of MJ Spidey has to deal with. And frankly, Felicia being in those stealth sequences would've made a million times more sense. There are some who have even speculated, with no real proof mind you, that Felicia was lying about lying about having a son. That she DOES have one, he just wasn't in danger. But of course, that's unlikely. For the same reason Peter remains hung up on Mary Jane in this game despite the fact most players seem apathetic to them getting back together. Spider-Man being a father out of wedlock is something that Marvel is not really prepared to sign off on. Just as much as they resist him being with someone other than MJ in other media, despite not wanting him to be with her in the comics.

It all seems so arbitrary to me, that they just can't be together because of the iconography of Peter and MJ. Or because she can't love the man the Spider is, which isn't true. Or Spider-Man can't change her or trust her, which also isn't true. If there has ever been a more consistent, sustainable, supportive and bonded character to Peter Parker it has been Felicia Hardy. Romantically or platonically, Felicia has dropped things to be there for Peter. And the idea that they are toxic for each other has never rung true. People can change, and this romance proves it. They just need to be given the chance to do so, and have the right person along for the ride. And the forced separation feels more arbitrary when you take into consideration, that Marvel has kept MJ and Peter apart for over a decades worth of comics and has never bit the bullet on simply just letting Felicia and Peter be together until now.

Some have claimed the new romance is out of the blue, that Spencer was setting things up to undo OMD, and that Wells just pulled this off out of nowhere. Well... no. Because those scenes where Felicia brought Peter out of his coma, the re-unmasking, the re-entry into his life through a number of adventures... Spencer either wrote those himself or they were written in conjunction with his run. People have confirmation bias, I'm no different, I don't claim to be. However, everyone has wanted OMD to be undone since the storyline first concluded. Marvel has played with fans' heartstrings that it will do so and it has prevented Peter from moving on because if he's not in a committed sustainable relationship, there's always hope that Mephisto's deal will be undone! And it has not helped anyone in the slightest to keep buying that horse crap.

The fact is I'm honestly sick of this "will they won't they" garbage from Marvel on undoing One More Day and I think more people should be by this point. Let me make this perfectly clear, even if they undo the deal... they're not getting remarried. Marvel simply is not interested in going down that road for Spider-Man again. Even with the new Spider-Verse movie showing Peter B. with a kid. Because the problem has never been they won't let Peter be married to MJ. The problem is they won't let Peter grow. The problem is they won't let him move on and change. They stick him in a misery spin cycle and just never let him out.

Why not just end the charade? Let Peter grow. Let Felicia grow. They both already want to. They both already desire to. And they both have already done so for the other. Felicia has been there to challenge and push him, while also protecting and supporting him. And Peter has undeniably changed Felicia as a person. She may never have the same moral compass, but she's no longer as lost as she once was. Her selfish cynicism is kept in check when it comes to Peter. And his selfless self-destruction is held back thanks to Felicia. Why deny them the chance to both be truly happy? Especially when they make each other better people. Why deny chemistry that is so perfectly balanced in its contradiction?

I don't begrudge people for preferring Mary Jane being with Spider-Man. I'm more or less at peace with the reality that some pairings are just thought of as the default and nothing is really gonna change that. I prefer Rogue with Deadpool, that doesn't change the fact she'll always be with Gambit. What I wanted to stress with this isn't so much an argument to ship it so much as the ultimate reason I simply can't let these two go.

For me, SpiderCat speaks on some primal level, more than wish fulfillment, but the idea of growth. That love can hold you up in your worst moments, or change you for the better. That it can make you look in the mirror and ask, who do you want to be? What do you want? What is worth changing for? Felicia found her answer, a nerdy, selfless, eternally tormented wall-crawler, who should know better than to go chasing her trying to save her from herself... but does it anyway. How could she not return the favor and be there for him? It's hard to say whether he caught her in his web, or if she just loves walking across his path. What is certain is they are bonded to each other, in one way or another. And that's the only thing about either character that I don't think can ever truly change.

Well this was a long one, and probably a lot more introspective and personally relatable than I thought. I think now have a better understanding of what has always drawn me to these two. And also now think I have discovered the song that describes them both so... thanks Taylor Swift! Whatever future this rekindled romance holds in the comics, we'll see how it shakes out. But I can enjoy the ride even if some of it has been rocky. Not the first time I've had to deal with that.

If you're still here, congrats, you've made it to the end. And I hope I didn't completely bore you all with this fairly overly comprehensive look at a pairing spanning various mediums and continuities. But I like to be thorough. So I hope you can appreciate the amount of work I put into this whole thing for you all. If I ever do this again I can only hope it won't be so... all encompassing. But I make no promises.

One thing I know though, I'm probably gonna be riding and dying these two forever. The Cat and her Spider, the Self and Selfless. Beautiful in the mess they are apart and the whole they are together.

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ambivalentmarvel · 5 months ago

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ambi it's talk shop tuesday and my children are starving: pls would you be willing to talk more about "look what you did to a perfectly good final girl. she has anxiety." alms for a poor skelly.

omg!!!!! so basically it’s a fusion of spider verse and mcu lore with comics sprinkled in as needed for flavor but ultimately it was inspired by my desire to write marvel again!!! i’ve been writing for spidey adjacent things for so long that the universe and the prose/style i use to write it feels homey and i missed it : )) and i’ve been chewing on came back wrong/came back too late for it to matter tropes lately so gwen seemed like the obvious choice lmao. also i wanted to kill peter again it’s been too long <333

tldr; gwen has been resurrected by someone and comes to in a random street with a piece of paper with mj’s address and Hazy memories of her life before she, allegedly, died horrifically. this is all very disorienting, particularly when it’s been a decade since she died in the first place, all of her friends are now real adults, and peter/spider-man recently died in a fight with kingpin.

whoever resurrected gwen also tossed in some fun spidery side effects for take two of her life. and there’s also this new black and red spider-man running around the city??? weird. no idea who that could be.

mj is Losing Her Fucking Mind by the way. not every day you as an incredibly talented actor/a-list celebrity are in the thick of grieving the second untimely death of your best friend and then have the one who died first show up.

so much of gwen’s character (even in spider-verse) revolves around another spider-man, and i wanted to see what her character would do if spider-man was gone and gwen stacy was the one left standing to face the villain. she’ll be totally normal about this, probably.

many characters across different marvel universes showing up and all being observed by an Unhinged teenage heroine clinging desperately to the notion that she can still have the regular life she always wanted while also struggling to not literally break everything she touches you know how it is <333 thank you for asking and i hope that cleared Something up??? but also it’s very possible that this has just created more questions in which case sorry. mwah.

#and it’s so much FUN #for me #gwen is Not pleased but it’s my dark comedy and she’s just along for the ride #ask ambi

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jesslockwood · 3 years ago

Text

Photo Opportunities

Word Count: 2.7k

Pairing(s): Tom Holland x Actress!Reader

Warnings: FLUFF with a slightly (barely) suggestive sentence towards the end

A/n: damn I can't write anything except actress reader? smh but this is for @londonspidey ‘s sit-com Writing challenge (ik I'm early lol) but I was so excited I wrote the whole thing in one go lmao the prompt is bolded!

Calling yourself a fan was an understatement. You were obsessed with anything and everything marvel. And oddly enough, you could after today say you were in the club. It wasn’t a public fact yet, until later that day actually, at the Marvel panel at comic con that you were being announced as the actress for the character, Felica Hardy and no one else knew except for the people who cast you and your best friend who signed an NDA. You were technically still a known actress for your roles on television mainly as Thalia on the PJO Disney + series and a couple of still decently sized films.

You were currently wrapping up signing autographs for fans of yours for today. Your team had planned it out so it wasn’t suspicious that you were at the con with a few of your castmates scattered doing other junkets and press so people wouldn’t guess who they were acting as the cast for new marvel projects.

You had been planning to go meet your best friend, who wasn’t in the industry before getting a text that she bought you both a photo-op with someone and she wouldn’t tell you who. You couldn’t only assume it was a marvel actor that you would indeed, freak out.

Y/b/n: btw I brought you a mask. I get the wig lol.

You: please tell me it doesn’t cover my full face. Also, how are we posing?

Y/b/n: I bought as many photo ops as I could so a lot of different ones, And if I tell you the poses it’ll spoil it.

You: is this with the money I pay you to be my assistant with? Lol fine I’m omw with security

Y/b/n: maybe…

Y/b/n: and they’ll need more backup security for who we’re getting a photo op with than you do for your hellfire.

You roll your eyes before taking your stuff and exiting the booth, before heading out the backways with staff security and your detailed security for the day. You only had security because you wanted to explore the con when you weren’t needed.

Your best friend had also been your assistant for the con weekend, but you didn’t want her to be confined to you the whole three days so when she could, you would let her explore it, at least she could experience it as a fan, right?

When you made it to that part of the building, you wanted to wait in line with her, which your security didn’t agree to so she texted you when there were about five people ahead of her. She was one of the last in line, with you asking her to be kind, so others would get their chance to be first with whomever it was.

When she texted you and your detailed exit, getting a few stares and others taking their phones out to either take photos or tweet, you wave at them before joining your best friend in line.

“Here,” she says before handing you none other than a black cat mask before she puts on a red wig.

You glare at her slightly trying to not make a scene, before putting it on.

“I’m assuming you're Mary Jane?” you laugh figuring out that it had to be someone from Spider-Man.

“How’d you- never mind.” She laughs with you.

She then explains how she’s going to pose for your five photo ops, joking in between how she should “get a raise for this”.

You catch sight of him before sucking in your breath. This was either going to go down amazingly or terribly, there was no in-between with you.

“Excuse Me, are you Y/n Y/l/n?”

You turn around and are met by some fans who were standing in line behind you.

“I am! How’s your con going?” you ask politely to the two of them.

“It's going amazing! We love you as Thalia! Could we maybe get a picture? Only if it’s okay?”

“Of course! Thank you for supporting me!” your best friend grabs their phone to take the photo, before you take off the mask, and stand between the two fans, and your best friend snaps a few photos.

“Thank you so much! And Are you fans of Tom?”

You start slowly walking back to catch up to the line.

“Yeah, I love him as Spiderman, but I also enjoy his other roles. He's very talented, I'd love to work with him one day!��

“Have you seen him in Uncharted? We love Him as Nathan drake!”

“I have, he was amazing per usual! How are you two posing with him?”

They show you their innovative pose. You laugh and tell them it's great before you have to wish them goodbye before heading up for your turn for the photo op.

“How do we want to pose- hang on, I recognize you!”

You freeze slightly before your friend mouths for you to flirt. You look down at the mask in your hand before getting into character and saying “Of course you do Spidey, I'm always causing you trouble.” you put on the mask and wink.

He seems slightly stunned, laughing, feeling like he’s seen you somewhere, not only because he found you extremely gorgeous, while in his peripheral vision he sees his brother/ assistant, Harry waving like a madman on the side.

Your friend directs you both through the poses, first, one both him putting “webs” onto you as she looks over his shoulder, the second one, both of you kissing his cheeks, the third, all jumping in the air in your best superhero poses, the fourth one she gets a photo op alone and the last one she gives to you,

“Seriously, who are you?”

“Your Wildest dreams, baby,” you say, taking off the mask.

Your best friend yells “freestyle” from the sidelines before Tom dips you, gently, with you shocked, holding the mask out with your free arm and the photo captures that moment.

He gently helps you stand back up fully, not before you drop the mask.

“Nice moves Spider-Man.”

“Not so bad yourself, Black Cat.”

You laugh before, taking off with your best friend, well more her dragging you to the printing station leaving the mask behind. Tom picks it up before shoving it in his back pocket to hopefully give back if he could find you.

`You were sitting in the green room, trending on Twitter before you were actually supposed to be trending on Twitter, and god knows where else.

Someone had snuck a video of you and Tom, up till him dipping you, and a video of you interacting with the fans in the line.

Your Y/b/n was currently reading off some tweets out loud

“‘A kind queen we stan.’ I agree, I also agree with ‘Date her if you can't date me tom!!!’.

‘THALIA AND PETER PARKER??? My two fandoms have collided.’ same, same. Oo this one says, ‘if she ain’t playing black cat I will sue marvel.’ I'm dying at the reply ‘She needs to post the photos or I'll sue her!’. This one’s funny, ‘she could squash him like a bug in heels but he liked his queen like that.’.”

She pauses watching you texting.

“Y/n? Y/n?”

“What? Sorry I was only half listening. I was texting my publicist. She said to stay on the DL until tonight.

“Well we should get food, you haven't eaten since this morning.”

“By the way, your show has shot to number one on Disney +. Also, you have like three times the followers you had before, probably cause you're trending on every platform, even Tumblr!”

“Wow you should just become my social media manager now.” you joke trying to ease the joy yet weirded out feeling in your stomach.

“Does that come with a raise? Because after today I've spent way too much of what I'm paid.” she jokes back.

After finishing his photo ops Tom asked Harry who she was and to find out. By the time he finished autographs for the day, Tom and Harry walked to the panel room in the back for announcements, one that included him for the new Avengers movie, while Harry gave him the rundown.

“So she’s an actress, she plays Thalia on Disney plus’ Percy Jackson series, and that's her most known project. The other girl with her is her assistant best friend, and now she's trending everywhere. People dug up some old photos of her being a marvel/Spider-Man fan, so there's that. And she's here at the con for the rest of the weekend. She's doing photo ops tomorrow at one, and yes she's single from what I gather since you were looking at her like this.” he makes a weird face before tom smacks him.

“And plus you have time in your schedule to get a photo op with her, that is if you eat lunch quickly.”

That gave Tom an idea.

“Harry I’m going to need you to book me one, oh and help me find a Spider-Man costume!” He says, before leaving harry to do ‘assistant’ work. entering the green room for the announcements, watching them announce a new movie.

“We are so excited to announce to the Marvel Universe, and spider-verse-” that perked tom’s ears, “-directed by Gina Prince-Bythewood, and today we are announcing our amazing Miss Felicia Hardy, please give a warm welcome to the stage, Your Black Cat!”

You suddenly emerged in an aisle way, dressed in all black with a leather jacket, black ankle boots, and of course black sunglasses indoors.

The music is marvel music until it suddenly changes after a recorded laugh from you into “I can’t be tamed by Miley Cyrus”.

You start owning the music while saying hi and touching fans’ hands. You decide to take off your sunglasses and throwing them to a fan, for them to keep, before getting on stage.

“What a Performance from the one the only Y/n Y/l/n!”

You laugh, being met with the loudest applause you had heard all con before being handed a Mic.

“Thank you but I'm a terrible dancer.” You Joke.

Tom was staring at the screen stunned. You had been the black cat all along. You were in the marvel universe and spidey one, so he'd definitely be seeing more of you. The hard part is that you seemed so genuine when you talked, interacted with fans and was no doubt, stunning.

“Better close your mouth or the flies will get in.” Tom turns around to find the voice of none other than his friend slash bully, Sebastian Stan, along with Anthony Mackie.

“Looks like the kid has a crush!” Anthony laughs, pointing to the screen you were on.

“I-I don’t! I don’t even know her!” Tom tries to come to his own defense, hopelessly.

“She’s got you whipped already don’t even deny it.” Harry comes in, joining the teasing of one, Tom Holland.

“Maybe we can invite her out for drinks tonight, then fanboy over here can meet her, and then probably scare her off!” Anthony mentions.

“You haven’t looked on the internet? They’ve already met.” Seb says, before showing Anthony twitter.

Anthony stands there slightly shocked before bursting into laughter.

“Well, she’s damn well a keeper for Tom since she obviously likes him.”

A staff member peaks their head in the green room to tell Tom he’s up next.

“Well, that’s my cue to leave you two!”

On the other hand, you were on an adrenaline high from being on stage, and seeing all the fans. You knew tomorrow was going to be crazy, as you expected people to book your photo op left and right since the announcement.

You had decided to decline an offer from your fellow marvel universe castmates, Sebastian Stan and Anthony Mackie, which they so graciously told you that whenever you’re free, the offer still stood.

You had gotten to your hotel room seeing your phone blowing up on the social media apps for the second time that day.

You responded to the important stuff, before heading to bed, knowing it was going to be hectic.

You had been right, it was absolutely insane, the number of people who showed up. You had fully booked all your time slots for photo ops. You had seen so many people dressed up in marvel cosplay, ranging from Loki to Ironman, even some people dressed up as your character, which was wildly insane to see.

You had been nearing the end of the line and had enjoyed every moment with the fans, and you couldn’t wait for your autographing session later that day, to truly get a chance to talk to the fans and connect with them and how they felt about you being their beloved Black Cat.

After a few more photos, posing how they wanted, you see a fully dressed, head to toe, mask and all, Spider-Man. You had seen some spider-mans but most took off their masks to snap a picture. The person was the last in line.

“Hey Black Cat.” The southern American accented voice tells you, seeming very familiar.

“Hey, Spider, what poses do you have up your sleeve?” you ask kindly.

“I bought a few, Cat.” they laugh.

“Okay, You can do whatever a spider can right?” you pull out a line out of the comics jokingly.

“I can do flips if that’s what you’re asking.”

“Is that some kind of nerd pick-up line? Because it’s only kind of working.” you laugh.

“I really can, but this is one.”

He gets down on one knee, holding a black cat mask instead of a ring. The photographer captures the shocked expression on your face.

“I- Don’t- What- Spider I-”

“Ow My feelings…” Suddenly their voice changes into a British accent before they pull off the mask to reveal-

“Tom?”

“I guess you don’t have a spidey sense darling?” The photographer captures the moment without warning eating the moment up.

You laugh at that.

“I guess you found out my true identity Spider. And it’s nice to officially meet you, Tom.”

He laughs, just as nervous as you, he notices he has gotten closer to you and a strand of hair loosely is blowing in your face, so naturally, he pushes it behind your ear. Another snap of the camera can be heard.

“NOW KISS!” a voice belonging to your best friend yells from the side, mid-eating a churro.

You both laugh really hard at that.

The both of you calm down, slowly leaning lost in the moment. The camera snaps again. You both look at the photographer weirded out, and they just shrug.

“Wait can you actually do a flip?” you ask, pulling away, not wanting prying eyes aka the photographer, to pry in your business.

“I can, though I’d show you later, maybe in the greenroom?”

“That sounds naughty, but, sure.” you joke around.

He laughs before, you both take off from the area going to grab the photos.

After spending most of the day together when you could, you get Tom’s number, before heading back to your hotel room. He texts you as soon as you get back.

Spider: I had fun today, minus finding our assistants making out.

You: we should ‘snog’ too, it’ll gross them out ;)

You: I had fun too btw. Are you leaving tomorrow?

Spider: lol we should. And yeah an early flight, 6 am to be exact. Hbu?

You: Yeah me too... another day another dollar lol

Spider: ill miss you, Cat.

You: stop talking like we’ll never see each other again lol. As a matter of fact, come to my room, we’re watching a movie!

Spider: alright, I’ll order snacks.

You sigh smiling at your phone. You haven’t felt this giddy in a long time.

Your phone pings with a few Instagram notifications.

Tomholland2013 has started following you.

Tomholland2013 has tagged you in a photo.

You open Instagram to find the photo of him “proposing” to you posted.

“Ow, my leg, my- feelings...Welcome to the Universe, Cat.” the photo is captioned. You decide to post, the photo of him dipping you.

“So what do you say, Spider? Wanna help me pull off the Heist of the Heist of the Century?” you caption it, Before getting comfortable to watch a movie.

What an opportunity ;)

Tags:

@lolooo22 @webmeupspiderdaddy @harryhollandsgirlfriend @spideyspeaches @greenorangevioletgrass @queenofthepouges @sheranatic111 @keithseabrook27

#tom holland #peter parker #marvel #spider-man #tom holland fic #tom holland x reader #tom holland fanfic #tom holland fanfiction #tom holland x y/n #tom holland imagine #tom holland one shot #comic con #ace comic con seattle #ace con #comiccon #Katies4kwc

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thevindicativevordan · 2 years ago

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Any thoughts on Joe Quesada's retirement from Marvel?

He was simultaneously the best and worst thing to ever happen to Marvel. Completely turned the company around after the 90s bankruptcy by being willing to take risks, break with tradition, and trust new talent with the big toys. We would not have gotten Bendis Avengers, the Ultimate Universe, Priest on Black Panther, and countless other gambles that rejuvenated Marvel if he hadn't taken charge. Without Quesada you would not get the MCU since his influence is as much a part of it's DNA as Bendis, Whedon, or Millar. He and Bendis made the Avengers into the juggernaut franchise it is today, and that alone cements him as a Marvel Legend and icon of the comic book industry. That side of Quesada has my gratitude and respect.

Conversely he's also the guy who broke sections of the Marvel Universe beyond repair, out of a need to return parts of the MU back to what it was like when he was a kid. He smothered the opportunity offered by Morrison's reinvention of the X-Men, with the Decimation leading directly into the never ending genocide plots that torpedoed the franchise in the 2010s until Hickman. Civil War toxified Iron Man and everyone on the Pro-Reg side so badly that Marvel had to soft reboot the entire thing out of continuity in order to make everyone friends again. Then of course there's Spider-Man and One More Day, which earned him the permanent ire of a non-insubstantial portion of the Spidey fanbase. For the record I don't think his departure will cause Marvel to budge on their stance that OMD was a good thing that needed to happen. Quesada may have been the one to finally pull the trigger on it, but editorial had been wanting to undo the marriage practically from the moment it happened. The Clone Saga unfolded the way it did because some saw in Ben an opportunity to restore Spidey to how he was "meant to be": unmarried and single.

So how to characterize Quesada's handling of Marvel? Peaks and valleys. The good moments were some of the greatest ever, stories that would go on to directly shape the films. Likewise the bad moments were truly awful which left some characters permanently hobbled by stories he greenlit, particularly Spidey and Scarlet Witch. Regardless of whether you think the good times outweighed the bad or not, he's definitely earned his place in the Marvel Hall of Fame off of his impact on the brand.

#marvel #spider man #avengers #joe quesada

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aion-rsa · 3 years ago

Text

Doc Ock Is Still the Best Spider-Man Villain On-Screen

https://ift.tt/3GqxhgA

It’s the trailer that broke the internet. The first Spider-Man: No Way Home sizzle footage, which ended with the familiar sight of Alfred Molina strapped to four mechanical arms, was viewed more than 355 million times in its first 24 hours on the web, setting a Guinness world record. When Molina’s iconic Doctor Octopus (or Doc Ock) smiled, “Hello, Peter,” the whole world smiled right back.

Despite it being nearly 20 years since Molina last played Doc Ock in a movie—way back when Tobey Maguire was still Spider-Man and George W. Bush was only in his first term as President of the United States—the excitement audiences had at seeing the not-so-good doctor up to no damn good was palpable. Part of this, of course, is due to the fan theory that if Molina is coming back, then Maguire probably will too (although that isn’t confirmed). But even without Maguire, there’s something just remarkable about seeing Molina as Ock again. After all, he remains the greatest Spider-Man movie villain to this day.

It’d be easy to dismiss such a thought as mere nostalgia, rose-tinted memories of long gone times. Yet if that’s the case, Sony and Marvel Studios are keenly aware that most folks share that wistfulness about the Spider-Man 2 heavy since the new trailer greeted his return with all the reverence of Harrison Ford showing up again as Han Solo at the end of the first The Force Awakens trailer, or seeing a proton pack fire again at the end of Sony’s own Ghostbusters: Afterlife trailer. Clearly, Marvel is banking on most folks being thrilled to see Spidey’s greatest cinematic foe returned to their universe, despite Marvel themselves already taking a stab at multiple classic Spidey villains to date, including Vulture, Mysterio, and the Shocker.

No matter the continuity, or “Spider-Verse,” or even in our modern blockbuster era where Sony is giving Venom and every other Spider-Man villain their own spinoff movie…. there’s still just something about dear old Otto.

It certainly wasn’t planned that way. When Alfred Molina was cast as Otto Octavius two decades ago, he was following in the emerging Sony and Sam Raimi pattern of casting respected character actors who just received awards attention a year or two ago as the next big bad. In 2001 that meant casting Willem Dafoe—who was about to have a career renaissance after receiving his second Oscar nomination for Shadow of the Vampire (2000)—and a few years later, it was Molina’s turn fresh off the Oscar winning Frida (2002). Even so, it’s arguable that the studio which also wanted the Lizard and Black Cat in the sequel—and which would soon get its wish to overstuff a Spidey follow-up a few years later—never fully realized just how special having Doctor Octopus could be.

Director Raimi and the final screenwriter, Alvin Sargent, certainly did though. Jettisoning the other extraneous villains, as well as an awful studio note about having Doc Ock crush on college co-ed Mary Jane Watson, they returned Otto to some semblance of his comic book roots. And, just as importantly for Raimi, they took full advantage of what might be Spidey’s most visually dynamic villain.

Often drawn to be a pudgy and middle-aged introvert who hides behind sunglasses and a bowl cut, Otto Octavius has never been a “cool” looking character in the traditional sense. It’s why on the page, many young fans might gravitate toward the oily nightmare of Venom, or the demonic menace of Spidey’s technical arch-nemesis, the Green Goblin. But whereas both of those characters present a greater hurdle to make tactile onscreen, Doctor Octopus’ mechanical arms create a visual symphony of spectacle and danger. Simply put, watching the balletic movements of an agile wallcrawler dodging a litany of moving arms just looks wildly fun, especially in motion.

Raimi got the memo in that regard, relying on extensive puppeteering for close-ups and CGI for wide shots to give alternating weight and fluidity to Doc Ock’s appearances. He also made Ock the first comic book movie villain to actually be able to participate in comic book action. Dafoe’s Green Goblin from a few years earlier, while a campy delight, was somewhat hindered by that film’s smaller budget and the still nascent development of digital effects in superhero action.

But in Spider-Man 2? Doc Ock and Spider-Man could battle vertically on the side of a building for one set-piece and on top of a moving elevated train in another. Digital effects were still early enough along that Raimi didn’t feel the need to shove as much muddled carnage onscreen as possible. He thus had the relative freedom to bask in his images, savoring the vertigo of Spidey and Ock eyeballing each other while looking 40 stories down, or in the horror of just one car (and an actual car, not a CGI blob) being thrown through a window as opposed to a fleet of them. Sometimes less is more.

Yet it was more than just the visual splendor of Ock that made him a great villain. The Spider-Man movies, and superhero films in general, are littered with visually cool big bads who rely on massive amounts of computer generated effects, all of which are used to paper over how thin and disengaging they really are. Which again, brings us back to how intelligently Molina and Raimi presented this character.

Doctor Octopus is not what one would consider a “grounded” villain. There’s unlikely to be any Martin Scorsese-emulated origin stories made about his sad childhood. He’s a megalomaniacal fiend who despite building four mechanical sci-fi arms—and which are also revealed to have artificial intelligence and are resistant to magnetism and intense heat in Spider-Man 2—is still inexplicably searching for a creation that will justify his genius and get him worldwide acclaim.

Yet Molina and Raimi sharply underplay all that jazz, teasing out great depths beneath waters Molina keeps conspicuously still. This was a counterintuitive move after the first Spider-Man. Dafoe is, again, a delicious joy of scenery-chewing as the Green Goblin. But while playing Spider-Man’s greatest comic book villain, Dafoe was saddled with a ridiculous costume and ludicrous motivations, both of which were in-keeping with most comic book movie villains not played by Ian McKellen during the previous 25 years.

Molina, by contrast, played Doctor Octopus completely straight and also with undaunted conviction. The movie would poke some fun at the character’s absurdities, at times, with J.K. Simmons’ J. Jonah Jameson snarking the obvious: “A guy named Otto Octavius winds up with eight limbs. What are the odds?” Nevertheless, no character dares laugh or crack wise in Doc Ock’s actual presence. Since the beginning of his career, Raimi has been a cheeky director, turning his gorefest debut, The Evil Dead, into a dark comedy. But he knows when to dial back and he always films Octavius with an operatic sense of pathos and grandeur.

Molina comports himself similarly onscreen. When we first meet him, his Octavius is slightly more dynamic than the megalomaniac on the comic book page. He has a wife Rosalie (Donna Murphy), and a life that existed before he became a supervillain. He and Rosie share sweet memories of studying poetry in college with Peter, and both display a genuine interest in another character’s personal life—an element which has gone largely by the wayside in the superhero movie genre, before and sense.

It’s not exactly Ibsen, but it’s enough to give the accident which welds the mechanical arms to his spine and drives him insane some emotional weight. And it gives Molina enough to chew on to make the character both tragic and, eventually, menacing as he gives in to his madness.

Movies

Tom Holland Says Spider-Man: No Way Home Introduces ‘Raimi Camera’ Style in MCU

By David Crow

Movies

Why Spider-Man 2’s Train Fight is Superhero Cinema’s Greatest Action Scene

By Mark Harrison

In the 17 years since Spider-Man 2 was released, supervillains have tended to be increasingly written as glib and self-aware as the heroes, particularly when appearing in the Marvel Studios canon. There has been a clear calculation made that these movies go down easier if the films frequently make winking asides to the audience not to take it too seriously, not to engage too critically, and just generally not to worry about it. There are exceptions of course, but ever since Loki was turned into the Hulk’s yo-yo in The Avengers, this has been closer to the rule than the exception, even for straight-faced villains like Ronan the Accuser in Guardians of the Galaxy, whose self-seriousness makes him a figure prime for ridicule when he’s baffled by the concept of a “dance off.”

In Jon Watts’ Spider-Man films there have been attempts to get away from this, with Michael Keaton’s Vulture coming the closest to replicating the generational tension created by Doc Ock. Once again we had a father figure doing battle with “the kid” who won’t accept his authority. Nonetheless, the Vulture’s beef persistently being left with Iron Man, and not Spider-Man, never let that rivalry fully blossom. Jake Gyllenhaal’s Mysterio, meanwhile, returned to the typical self-referential glibness of traditional Marvel Studios villainy, with Mysterio being more concerned with how his cape is ironed before he meets the Queen of England than he is with the fight at hand against Spidey.

There is no tension-deflating bathos humor to Doc Ock’s scenes in Spider-Man 2. When Ock’s arms first awaken from their AI slumber and slaughter a room full of surgeons, it’s nightmarish, with Raimi repeating many of the horror movie tricks he learned in the Evil Dead films. When Otto awakens and finds the dead bodies, he doesn’t make a lighthearted joke which trivializes the sequence. He lives with it.

Molina plays all his scenes with this level of conviction, which is why there has never been a better onscreen dynamic between Spidey and one of his villains. Peter Parker, even Tobey Maguire’s more earnest interpretation of the character, is just a kid often in over his head who compensates with a smart mouth. Ock is a curt professional who doesn’t have time or interest in engaging with such juvenilia. Their odd couple energy makes the potential violence increasingly bitter as the movie goes along.

Take for instance the bank scene. The dialogue between the two characters is almost perfunctory, and could be found as quickly inserted filler on any CW show. Doc Ock says, “You’re getting on my nerves,” and the Web-Head retorts, “I have a knack for that.” But the cold, almost clinical way, Molina responds, “Not for long,” has such confidence it’s almost thrilling to watch his anger boil.

Molina also brings in his choices to moments where Ock is also having fun. The instinct to have him look back and forth, twice, between two passengers before picking which to toss first off a train is a clever character moment. And when the rest of the passengers on said train gather to stand up to Ock as “New Yorkers,” there is an almost infectious glee in Molina’s smile as he gets to hurt all of them in one brusque motion.

Moments like these are couched in action movie eye candy which still holds up not because of the dated CGI but due to Raimi’s intuitive understanding of film composition and using action to tell a story as opposed to just overwhelm the senses and clutter the frame. Molina likewise gives all his moments a regal sense of superiority that elevates his character and performance above even the dialogue. Like the mechanical arms attached to his spine, this is a perfect melding of director and star. And it’s created a villain who has us all at “hello.”

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#aion-rsa #Den of Geek

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dailymilesmorales · 4 years ago

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Thor and Hulk are at it again. The Avengers' helicarrier is under attack by a swarm of robot minions under the command of MODOK, the head of a tech company who became a super-powered Inhuman villain after a catastrophe known as A Day — and still the raging green muscle finds time to hurl a projectile at Thor’s head. “Just like old times,” says the Asgardian, referencing a bit from 2012’s Avengers movie. Only this isn’t their next blockbuster sequel. It’s their first blockbuster video game.

Since the MCU has been put on indefinite hold in the wake of the global COVID-19 pandemic (see: Black Widow’s release date, production on the next Spider-Man movie), games — and, specifically, Marvel Games — are rising to meet the need for fresh stories. This year alone will see the debut of Marvel’s Avengers (Sept. 4) from the Tomb Raider team at Crystal Dynamics, plus Marvel’s Spider-Man: Miles Morales (holiday 2020), a separate spin-off of Insomniac Games’ 2018 Spidey adventure that revives the breakout Spider-Verse star.

“We always believed in the power of video games,” says Bill Rosemann, who’s like the Kevin Feige of Marvel’s gaming division. “We’re happy that more people than ever are discovering — even though you may be physically in different areas — [that] games can bring you together and create connections."

This next phase (to use an MCU term), which finally gives fans playable Marvel adventures on large console platforms, began with Spider-Man. Earlier attempts to make games of this scale, like an Avengers project planned to coincide with the original movie, fell apart. Leaked footage of this first-person effort, as well as a canceled Daredevil game, exist on YouTube as a glimpse of what could've been. The 2018 release, Marvel’s Spider-Man, finally webbed a green light because it was “all about timing,” says Rosemann. “It's all about what talent is available? Do they want to work with Marvel? If so, what's their passion? When you have all those things align, that’s when you can create something great.”

Jon Paquette, the lead writer of Marvel's Spider-Man, noted how one of their mantras "was to design an experience that felt like you were playing a Marvel movie." Out of that mission came a story about Peter Parker, a little more experienced in his years as New York's friendly neighborhood... you know, interwoven with a battle against a sinister rogues' gallery. It became the best-selling superhero game of all time, at over 13 million units. “We had a feeling it was gonna do that,” says Bryan Intihar, Insomniac’s creative director. "I mean, you don't [really] know. There’s this ultimate fear of screwing up one of the most popular characters.” When celebrities like Lin-Manuel Miranda and LeBron James began sharing images from the game on social media, they knew it had “reached another level."

They still didn’t know if they could make a sequel. There were two post-credits scenes that teased big things to come — another element borrowed from the movies — but that was them "stacking the deck," as Intihar put it. One stinger revealed that Miles Morales, an Afro-Latino teen from Harlem and a playable side character, also developed powers after a bite from a radioactive spider once held in Norman Osborn's secret lab.

“We knew really early that [Spider-Man] was going to end with him getting the spider bite," Intihar says. “We would tease it during development. I think everybody was focused on, 'Can you make the first one really good and we'll worry about the other stuff later?' But we wanted to have that set up so if it became a reality [to do another game] we could pull it off." At one point during an early workshop session, Miles was going to be a post-credits scene reveal and nothing more, but Intihar says the team determined it was important to "see the roots of him being a hero before he even had spider powers." Intihar adds of the final end-credits tag, "One of the reasons we put that out was to hopefully convince people that ‘He’s a Spider-Man now. Can we have a game with him?‘”

It paid off, partly because Insomniac went from being a partner with game publisher Sony Interactive Entertainment to being an official member of the Sony family once the company acquired Insomniac in fall 2019 for $229 million, per the company's financial statements. After that, "they were fully on board with the idea" for a sequel, Intihar says. Rosemann thinks of that first Spider-Man as "proof of concept." Now, for the holiday 2020 season (COVID-19 willing) Miles’ own game will further expand this virtual world.

In Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales, set in winter one year after the events of the previous game, Miles' Harlem home is on the verge of being torn apart by a war between an energy corporation and a criminal organization armed to the teeth with advanced tech. It's not a formal sequel to Spider-Man. That, if the coy responses from the creatives are any sign, may or may not be coming later. It's a shorter spin-off, likened in scope to the Lost Legacy game in the Uncharted series. Nevertheless, Intihar promises "it has a lot of heart."

"This is a full arc for Miles Morales that started in Spider-Man," Brian Horton, the game's creative director, says. "We really are completing this hero's coming of age in our game. It is a complete story."

The choice of a smaller narrative came amid discussions of what that hero's journey looked like for Miles in the context of Insomniac's games. After all, Miles, according to Marvel Comics canon, doesn't typically exist in the same reality as Mr. Parker. "When we started crafting it," Horton recalls, "we realized that, with a little bit more of a compact storytelling style, we could tell a very emotionally impactful story that would fit really well as an experience that would take Spider-Man 1 and [Miles Morales] and do justice to this character."

Miles may be training with Peter to hone his Spidey skills, but Horton and Intihar see him as "his own Spider-Man." The animation, the movements, the mechanics, even his powers (including bioshock and invisibility) aren't just unique tricks for this character, they are metaphors for that hero's journey the pair keep mentioning. Peter's origin "was born out of tragedy" — i.e. the death of his Uncle Ben — but Horton mentions Miles "is more so born out of family. What I think is really compelling about Miles as a character is he has friends that he could actually let into his world — his human world and his Spider world. He's a little different in the way he approaches it."

Despite all this spin-off talk, Rosemann isn’t actively overlapping his universe of interconnected games — at least not yet. It's more like a Spider-Verse. "Each game is in the Marvel universe, but they're in their own reality, if you will," he says. "Currently, our plan is to keep each game set in its own Marvel universe." It's part of his goal to give game-makers as much freedom as possible to craft the stories they want to tell. So, while this year’s Avengers won’t be linked to Spider-Man, it has its own web-slinger. Spider-Man has been confirmed to arrive in Marvel's Avengers as a DLC story sometime after launch. But when the game drops, it will also come with a lead character who maintains certain parallels to Miles.

[..]

#miles morales #games #games: spiderman miles morales #articles #long post

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drunk-onsunlight · 4 years ago

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Day #1: Beautiful, what's your hurry?

Chapters: 1/12 Fandom: Spider-Man (Tom Holland Movies) Rating: General Audiences Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Relationships: Michelle Jones & Peter Parker, Michelle Jones & Ned Leeds & Peter Parker, Happy Hogan/May Parker (Spider-Man), Pepper Potts & Tony Stark, Peter Parker & Morgan Stark (Marvel Cinematic Universe), spideychelle - Relationship, Betty Brant & Ned Leeds Characters: Michelle Jones, Peter Parker, Ned Leeds, Betty Brant, May Parker (Spider-Man), Tony Stark, Pepper Potts, Happy Hogan, Morgan Stark (Marvel Cinematic Universe) Additional Tags: Spideychelle Promptmas 2020, MJ is Black Cat, Peter Parker is Spider-Man, Iron Dad, Canon? Don't Know Her, Comic Elements, Rhino is causing problems, Prowler is causing problems, Dr. Octopus is causing problems, Peter Parker Needs a Hug, Morgan is a smartass, Ned Leeds is a Good Bro, Other Additional Tags to Be Added

Summary:

12 days of promptmas where Peter is having fun being Spider-Man until too many bad guys are around and a certain Cat tries to kiddnap Ned in the middle of a fight (or something like that) and all he can think about is "how is he going to pretend to have a relationship with MJ on that Stark party on Christmas break?"

Notes:

I'm terribly excited and proud of this fic so I hope you have as much fun reading as I had writing it. You will find short chapters and others... not so short, they are hell long (sorry, not sorry). Done with the blablabla and have fun in this 12 Days of Promptmas Remember that every chapter's concept will influence a big plot ;)

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Concept 43. Roommates 2. Shopping

Dialogue 56. "Do you wanna built a snowman?" 46. "You do know that Santa's not real, right?"

December 18th - One week before Christmas Peter and MJ have been living together for two years now. They decided it was the best way to not be totally broke because of their attempt to live in NYC while college and being close to their families in Queens. And the best way for Peter to be Spider-Man and be close to the Avengers facilities without anyone knowing, including MJ. Peter didn't knew how he have managed to keep his identity hidden while living with MJ but it was good, she wasn't in danger if she didn't know about his superhero thing. Peter and MJ had strict rules about their privacy and that made everything easier. They never went to the others bedrooms for anything, at least one of them was sick and that wasn't happening frequently. So basically Peter charged his IronSpider suit without worrying about MJ finding it and probably friking out and his three different suits were on the closet or under his bed totally save. MJ had her own secrets and he wasn't the right person to sneak a peek inside her room to find out, so he respected her room, privacy and secrets as much as she respected his. Morgan has called on a Thursday claiming that she needed to spend time with his big brother on Christmas break or she will take him out of work from The Bugle on some fake news that Spider-Man was around a shopping mall she wanted to visit. The ten year old was very persistent, just like her parents. Of course he said yes, he wanted to take some pictures of Manhattan while you can still walk around Central Park, also, some early shopping for Christmas was too perfect to reject. Morgan arrived to MJ and Peter's apartment early in the morning and took a second quick breakfast with her brother and MJ. ---------

"So, Morgan! How's school going?" MJ was familiar now with the little girl and wasn't surprised of Peter's contacts with the Stark. What she never understood was how Peter ended up working for J. Jonah Jameson and not in Stark Industries, maybe his passion for photography was bigger than his love for chemistry and labs. "Pretty good, actually! I'm looking forward to High school, looks exciting" oh poor innocent soul. But she wasn't going to break her little bubble of happiness, definitely not on the holidays! "You're getting old Morgan! High school? That's big!" Peter was always cheering Morgan, no matter what. He was such a good old brother "Then you are even more old because you are in college and you have a job, too" Morgan said with her mouth full of pancakes, that MJ was pretty sure Pepper will not approve. "MJ! You are gonna let her treat us like grannies because we have a job?" Peter always tried to get MJ involved in his conversations but she still had that little observant in her from High school "Well, if we are that old then we can't go shopping today. What if we get a cold? That would be terrible for this two old people" that was the plan, shopping with Morgan but MJ had another plan for her visit to Manhattan, but they didn't need that information "noooo!!!! We have to go shopping! My dad gave me lots of money to spend on everyone’s present! I want to buy something nice for Uncle Happy and Aunt May, for mom and dad and of course for you both! Even for Ned and Betty!" yes, that was their little group now. How on earth Peter was able to keep such a strong relationship with the Starks and his security head, after two years working for their labs, was still a mystery. Well, it wasn't hard to get attached to the Parkers and with Peter always came Ned and now Betty. "Ok Morgan! Then let's go. If we are in Manhattan as soon as the shops are open we will get good presents for everyone" the little girl took her plate when the pancakes were to the kitchen and run to get her coat, scarf and gloves for the cold. "How much money do you think she actually has, Parker?" "She is ten, so maybe not much. But she is a Stark so maybe a couple hundred? Who knows? I'm gonna text Pepper just to check, if I text Tony he will probably encourage her to buy the whole shopping mall" Peter walked to his room while Morgan returned from the living room and started jumping in front on MJ to show her that she was ready to go "Ok, we will go in a few. Can you go to your brother's room for a bit while I look for my things?" "Yeap! Don't take long, MJ!" "Don't worry. I will be fast. Promise!" MJ walked to her room and locked the door. She needed to change something from her outfit without Peter and Morgan knowing. That will bring lots of questions that she wasn't ready to answer, especially to Peter. She took her bag with all the things she needed for the day and checked twice that the leather suit under her clothes wasn't visible. "MJ is back!! We can go! Let's go Pete" Morgan was bubbling with happiness so they finally went out of the little apartment. They went down the five floors and started walking through the cold streets of New York with Morgan in between them. Each holding one of her tiny hands. The girl was talking about her school friends, her new favorite topic in class and her love for science, just like his dad. Peter and Morgan were having a lovely chat about the new tech Stark was designing while MJ was waiting for her moment to leave them for a while. "How do you know all of this, Morgan? Pepper hasn't forbid you from the labs?" "Yeah, but she stopped telling me to not go there after my tenth time sneaking into the labs." "As reasonable as your dad, I see" "And you Pete. That's why you are my brother" Peter had an easy smile on his face when he talked to Morgan. It was nice to see him so relaxed, he was extremely stressed and had been for the last year. College could be a nightmare even being a genius like Peter. "Ammm, I have to go Morgan. Would you forgive me if I go for a few minutes? I promise I will be back" "Nooo!!! Why? I can talk to you more if you want. It’s just that Peter never shuts up" "Its fine Morgan. I love hearing you both talk about nerdy things, but can I tell you a secret?" the girl’s eyes light up and she moved away a little from Peter "I'm very good at keeping secrets, MJ. You can trust me" MJ got to Morgan’s level which means she was almost on her knees. "I'm going to buy Peter's present and he can't see it because it's a surprise. Can you keep that secret?" Morgan's face showed all her excitement and started nodding furiously "Then I will text Peter when I'm done, ok?" she said the last looking at Peter to let him know she was going back with them "Ok! See you MJ!!" Morgan waved at MJ while she crossed the street to a few jewelry stores. She entered one of the stores and checked that Peter and Morgan were gone before leaving to a close ally to change into her leather suit, mask and silver wig. ------ "MJ is really nice. And pretty!" if Peter never closed his mouth, Morgan was just like him, but Peter loved it "Yeah. She is really nice" "And pretty. My dad said he is a little bit afraid of her for all your stories about her in high school but I think that makes her even greater" "Well yes, she is pretty and why I never knew your dad was afraid of MJ? Now I'm gonna mock him for that" "you didn't hear it from me, Pete" "so, what where you and MJ talking about?" "No, no, it's a secret and I don't share secrets even if there are small. Like your secret, does MJ knows, by the way?" "No, she doesn't and you know that's the best thing for her so it's going to be a secret until something terrible happens like she gets in my room and I'm arriving from patrol or something like that" he didn't want to think about the possibility of MJ finding out about him being Spider-Man because patrol ended bad "How's Ned doing? Is he still your Guy in the Chair?" "Nop, he is retired. Now he has proclaimed himself as a FOS" "what's that?" "FOS as Friend of Spider-Man" "so, I'm a FOS too, right?"

"Yes, you are Morgan. That's why you have to be really careful on not speaking about Spidey outside of the labs or the facilities. Ok?" "Yeap. Got it. Don't worry about that. Mom thought me well. She talked about a few bad experiences she had because she is close to my dad and I don't want to go through any of that" Morgan was very young but very intelligent, any other kid would be screaming at the top of their lungs that their adoptive brother was a superhero just like their dad. But she knew better than that. "Hey! Look at all the snow in the park. Do you wanna built a snowman, Morgan?!" he was very excited about the possibility but Morgan not so much "I would love it but can we wait for MJ? I think she will enjoy it as much as we will" "Ok. Let me check my phone for any messages. Maybe she wrote me and we didn't notice" no new messages from MJ, but apparently Black Cat had stolen a few things from a store on the opposite side of Manhattan. The police was taking care of the case but the evidence wasn't much. They never had enough evidence when Black Cat was involved, she was becoming a problem in New York and Peter was going to pay more attention to the new dressed up villain, but first he needed to stop Rhino. He was the big problem, has been for the last year, appearing and disappearing every few months but each time he came back, he was stronger. "Did she say something?" "No yet. What if we go to that shopping mall, do some actual shopping and then back to that snowman?" "Yes! I want to buy some summer clothes to my dad and some beautiful heels to my mom! Maybe some kitchen utensils to Uncle Happy and more nice shoes for Aunt May! What do you think, Pete?" "I think we have lots of things to do then! Let's go before MJ is back. We need to buy her a present too" they walked to the shopping mall and got a few things for everyone. Morgan bought some shorts for Tony, with Iron Man's face on them, some really expensive heels for Pepper and May and different bakery supplies for Happy "I have Ned's present in Stark Industries. It's a new program my dad worked on that I think he will love. But don't tell him! It's a secret" "don't worry peanut, your secret it's save with me" "thanks Pete. Ok, what are we buying to MJ?" "I have an idea... But we have to go find somewhere affordable and that can sell me a very specific object. Santa can't bring that present from the North Pole for her" "You do know that Santa's not real, right?" "What? MORGAN! You can't say that!!" "I'm sorry Pete. Did I ruin your fantasy?" "No... But now that's a big secret you will have to keep. No one can know that Santa is not real" after Peter and Morgan went out of the store they choose for MJ's present, Peter's phone started to sound along to Jingle Bells. "Hey MJ. We done shopping here. Where are you? Do you wanna built a snowman?" "A snowman?" "Yes. Morgan wanted to wait for you to build it in the park a few block away from where we were" "Oh. Yeah. I know where, see you there in ten?" "Perfect. See you in a few" "She's coming to build the snowman?" "Yes she is" "I really like MJ, Peter" "Yeah. Me too" -----

After a small walk and some time to find the best place to build the snowman, MJ, Peter and Morgan reunited and started looking for things to complete the medium sized snowballs that they managed to make. Morgan found a few stones for the eyes, MJ took a few branches for the arms and Peter was trying to find something for the nose of the snowman. After a few minutes he found a branch that wasn't to tin as the snowman's arms but it was too long. He broke the branch in the thicker part and placed it in the snowman face. "Oh Peter! The gym is actually paying! You broke that like it was a pencil!" Morgan’s face screamed at him that that action wasn’t completely normal for a regular person "Yeeaaahhh... The, the gym! Of course!" MJ was looking at him a little bit suspicious. She still managed to hide most her emotions but after living with her, Peter learned to read her more than she thought. "Well, I need to start going to the gym too then, you have been going since high school and it's finally working apparently" Peter knew MJ wasn't stupid, or blind for the matter. She has seen him without a shirt and knew about how his body has changed through the years because of his superhero thing, but for her, and everyone else... He was just going to the gym. That was the logic explanation behind his ripped body and his very useful strength. Peter tried to move away from MJ’s suspicious face while lifting Morgan from the ground.

“I think it’s quite decent. What do you think, Em?” Peter asked MJ

“I don’t look that bad, actually! Morgan, can you rate the snowman?” They were looking at the weird snowballs with the stones for eyes and several branches around his “body”

“I give it a 7 out of 10, something is missing… A SCARF!!! He’s getting cold without a scarf” Ok, Santa wasn’t real but the snowman was getting cold. Peter and MJ shared a look and started laughing, they found funny that the snowballs were cold. Peter took his scarf off from around his neck and placed it on between the top snowball and the middle one.

“There you have it! Now he is fine and won’t get a cold” Morgan looked pleased at the snowman and took MJ’s hand in her right hand and she offered her left had to Peter.

“Ok, now it’s a ten. I think we can go and wrap all this presents on the apartment. Can we Peter?” Morgan looked a little tired

“We definitely should, maybe we can have some hot drink too” MJ wrapped her bag on her shoulder without letting go of Morgan’s hand while Peter took the six different bags from around the snowman and the three of them stared to head home.

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Thanks to @spiderman-homecomeme for organising this amazing event!

#spideychelle #spideychelle twelve days of promptmas #ned leeds #betty brant #happy hogan #may parker #tony stark #pepper pots #morgan stark

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hellzyeahthewebwieldingavenger · 5 years ago

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Were I to have an insane and unrealistic amount of power over at Marvel I’d re-organize the Spider-Man relevant trades. I share the belief that the hurdle to new readers isn’t so much that there is a long history so much as a history spread all over the place. Wanting to read Spider-Man isn’t simple even if you do have the time and patience to read 50 years worth of comics. You need to know WHICH comics and WHAT ORDER to read them in. And the latter has a multiple choice answer!

This is part of why USM was so strong in it’s early days. 1 title, no satellites, no spin-offs. All you needed to do was pick up issue #1 or trade volume 1 and read sequentially from there. Not just easy to follow but easy to catch up and thus allow readership to grow.

Thus I propose that we simply organize the Spider-Man brand into a series of sequential trades. Functionally these will be like the Deadpool Classic trades, but with multiple trades following the various characters of the Spider-Verse. Want to read just about Peter Parker, you pick up his trades. But want to read just about Miles or Venom? The trades will have you covered going across their respective histories in the in-universe reading order.

In other words you need not worry about whether story arc A in ASM happens before story arc B in Spec and where Guest appearance C fits in. The trades would sort it all out for you. You’d just pick up any volume and read cover to cover, with tiny subplot pages and text inserted where relevant to clarify things. E.g. if there were 2 three part stories happening at the same time, you don’t want to interrupt that, so you’d just print one then have some text saying ‘the following three issues take place during the events of the ASM #X-Z’.

Additionally, in order to not make things unnecessarily confusing I’d omit retroactive stories like Untold Tales of Spider-Man, Symbiote Spider-Man, etc from these trades. My rationale is that not only would these spoil certain things but more significantly as time goes by people will inevitably write more retroactive stories meaning the trades would need to be constantly amended.

Instead I’d simply make a ‘Companion’ trade series reprinting such stories in publication order with a few notes explaining where they take place relative to the original issues. E.g. you’d pick up ‘Peter Parker: Spider-Man Classic Companion Volume 1’ and before you read Untold Tales of Spider-Man #1 a note would inform you it happens after ASM #3 or whatever.

So what would these trade series be exactly?

Something like this:

1. Peter Parker: Spider-Man Classic: Simply every Peter Parker appearance or relevant comic book. ASM, Spec, New Avengers, Secret Wars, guest appearances, everything!

2. Mary Jane Classic: Same thing for Mary Jane, albeit to save some time we could simply reprint the MJ relevant pages from various comics as there would be little need to reprint a whole Spidey adventure she just cameos in. The info text could simply give you context for each appearance before we got to meatier stories. I’d employ this method for all of the following whenever relevant.

3. Black Cat Classic: Obviously this would include her solo minis but also and team appearances like in Heroes for Hire.

4. Daily Bugle Classic: It occurred to me there were several stories focussing upon a lot of the supporting cast that didn’t feature Spider-Man himself. That aside people love the supporting cast so I figured some trades chronicling their exploits would make sense. For this trade series it’d focus upon J. Jonah Jameson first and foremost but also Betty Brant, Joe Robertson, Ben Urich, etc

5. The Many Loves of Spider-Man Classic: Same idea but with the Spidey girlfriends who don’t have that many appearances to their name. The main focus would be Gwen Stacy because for good or ill she’s a character who people are interested in. But you could also throw in appearances from Deb Whitman, Carlie, etc.

6. Spider-Man’s Tangled Web: TBH I couldn’t figure out a good name for this one, but essentially this would be about Peter’s friends who aren’t superheroes, Bugle employees or girlfriends of his. This would include Flash Thompson (pre-Venom), Liz Allan, Randy Robertson, possibly Glory Grant although she’d also fit in with the Bugle trades I guess. Throw in the Tangled web issues and your good to go!

7. Clone Classic: As you might expect this would chronicles Ben Reilly and Kaine’s exploits, but also for good measure ALL the clearly clone related stories. So we’re talking appearances involving Miles Warren and Gwen’s clone too. Although I guess the latter could fit in ‘the Many Loves of Spider-Man’ trades.

8. Spider-Man’s Amazing Friends Classic: All of the superhero friends Spider-Man has who are closely associated with him and have had off and on titles over the years. Prowler, Silver Sable, Rocket Racer, Sandman (when he reformed), Jackpot, Alpha, Will O’ Wisp, etc

9. Goblins Classic: I thought of doing a trade purely about the Osborns but this seemed more logical. It’d cover every appearance of the Goblin related characters. We’re talking Norman Osborn, Harry Osborn, Bart Hamilton, Roderick Kingsley, Ned Leeds, Jason Macendale, Phil Urich, Green Goblin V, Hobgoblin from Bendis’ Secret War, Gabriel+Sarah Stacy, Lily Hollister and whoever else will become a Goblin

10. Doctor Octopus Classic: Speaks for itself, and yeah it’d include his clones from Superior onwards too.

11. Symbiotes Classic: I thought of having this be about all the symbiotes OTHER than Venom and Carnage but having 3 sets of trades for symbiotes seemed ridiculous. This would cover every symbiote (Venom, Carnage, Hybrid, Scream, Toxin, Mania, Sleeper, etc) along with major hosts of theirs. Eddie Brock, Cletus Kasady, Mac Gargan, Flash Thompson, Andi Benton, etc

12. Sinister Six Classic. Maybe you couldn’t call these guys A-listers strictly speaking but these would be the real famous Spider-Man villains who haen’t already been mentioned. We’re talking the Vultures, Electros, Kravens, Mysterios, Chameleon, all the really classic costumed Spidey bad guys you could think of with the exception of some of the folks I’m gonna name below

13. The Many Foes of Spider-Man Classic: This would chiefly chronicle the stories about the characters from Deadly/Lethal/Superior Foes of Spider-Man, most importantly Boomerang, Beetle and Shocker

14. Spider Women Classic: All the 616 centric Spider Ladies. Jessica Drew, Julia Carpenter, Mattie Franklin, Cindy Moon, Anya Corazon, maybe even throw Madame Web in there for good measure. I think it makes sense to consolidate them together into a trade series as their publication histories meant they were usually passing the baton onto one another.

15. Miles Morales: Spider-Man Classic: Guess who this is about. Obviously this would include his appearances in Champions, Avengers, etc

16. Gwen Stacy: Ghost Spider Classic: Every Spider-Gwen/Ghost Spider/Earh-65 Gwen appearanceD

17. Spider-Ham Classic: You get the picture. Although I’d also add in versions of Spider-Ham that are from different Earths as well

18. Spider-Man 2099 Classic: We’re actually already doing these in real life, but I’d want them to include every version of Miguel too and brief appearances across other titles

19. Ultimate Spider-Man Classic: Obviously the same deal for Ultimate Peter Parker, but I’d also include Ultimate Jessica Drew as well

20. Web of Spider-Verse: A trade series that reprints in publication order every other AU Spider-People out there. All the What Ifs, the Earth X stuff, House of M, X-Men: Forever, 1602, Noir, India, Peni Parker, Fairy Tales and of course Web Warriors

21. Spider-Girl Classic: We’re already doing this one too. Just wish it’d come out faster!

22. Spider-Man: Japan Classic: ALL the Japanese Spider-Man stories. Every appearance of Supaidaman from Spider-Verse and beyond. Every appearance of Spider-Man J, Mangaverse Spider-Man, Spidey Fake Red and most controversially Spider-Man: The Manga (deffo gonna have to put a mature readers disclaimer on those ones.

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akirakan · 5 years ago

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Sony’s Universe would work much better if they focused on legacy heroes

Unless you’ve been living under a rock the past weeks, we all know that Spider-Man is not going to show-up in the MCU anymore. Sure, they could arrange a new deal, but for the moment, forget about seeing him again alongside The Avengers.

Sony is very likely to integrate him into their own cinematic, Sony’s Universe of Marvel Characters (SUMC), and do at least a soft-reboot, with the same cast but ignoring the events of the MCU. They already kick-started their little universe with Venom, with it’s sequel coming and Morbius starring Jared Leto, as well as the announced Black Cat, Silver Sable, Silk, Dusk, Nightwatch, and (*sigh*) Jackpot. Although, from all those announced, god knows how many will actually enter production (Silver and Black, Sinister Six, anyone?), specially now that they have Spidey all for themselves, he’s very likely to take priority. They’re very likely to continue with more spin-offs entirely focused on Spider-Man villains.

Okay, so honest question: outside of maybe Black Cat, Silk and maybe Silver Sable, does anyone really care about the others? Do you even know who Jackpot and Nightwatch are? Did Sony ever looked at Leto’s track and didn’t noticed that his only financially successful film is Suicide Squad? Does anyone really think that a universe build with villains turned into heroes as the leads is feasible?

If the answer to most of those questions is no, then you can see that the SUMC is heading to disaster. Sure, Venom was success, but let’s face it, building your cinematic universe on a “so bad it’s good” base is really shaky.

Sony is not entirely lost, however. They still have plenty of heroes. If there’s something that has characterized the Spider-Man mythos the past decade or so (I would go even further, to the 90′s and the clone saga) is the expansion of the Spider-Family. The aspect of legacy has been heavily played-up since the introduction of Ben Reilly, and the introduction of more diverse heroes with rich backstories, and (in most cases) independent from Peter Parker, opens a huge door for Sony to exploit. It’s much better having a universe where Spider-Man pressence is felt instead of awkwardly having Spider-Man villains headlining the universe with no Spider-Man on sight.

So let’s call this, The Spider-Man Legacy Universe, Phase 1.

Miles Morales - Spider-Man

I won’t even bother to explain him. I know you all saw ItSV. And if you haven’t, go watch it.

He would be the main face of this potential universe. He is THE Spider-Man. He would be slightly older in here, already being Spider-Man fo a few years by now, to show that he has more experience than all the upcoming heroes. Gwen would be introduced as the new girl at school, but she has her own agenda,

Mayday Parker - Spider-Girl

The daughter of the true Spider-Man! She’s Peter’s and MJ’s daughter, whose powers kicked-in when she entered high school. Her origin could be done fairly quickly: she’s Spider-Man’s daughter. There you go. Introduce villain.

Though, this would work to give more of a backstory to this world. Peter’s fate, for instance. He didn’t die in his last battle with Green Goblin. He was, however, incapacitated. He still lives a happy life with her wife and her two daughters. Yes, I said two.

At least in this version, I would introduce both of them. Annie being younger like in the earlier Renew Your Vows series, she would be the younger sister of Mayday. And no, she doesn’t have powers... yet.

Anya Corazón - Araña

Objectively speaking, the best superhero of all time (okay, I might be a little bit biased on that. JUST a little bit ;)). Anya Corazón is a mexican-puerto rican brooklynite who one night was caught between two warring factions: the Spider Society and the Sisterhood of Wasps. After almost dying during the attack, the mage of the Spider Society, Miguel, uses a ritual to save her, kick-starting her powers. After that, she becomes the hero Araña and fights alongside the Spider Society, at the same time that she tries to discover the dark side of the organization and other secrets, like what or who is inside the bunker...

This one would introduce mystical aspects into the universe. Kinda like being the Dr. Strange equivalent, introducing concepts such as the Web of Life, The Other, and, therefore, the Spider-Verse. This concepts would be key moving forward with the next heroes...

Kaine - Scarlet Spider

Kaine “Parker”, after living a miserable life as a failed experiment and seeing his brother die, he ultimately dies... before inexplicably coming back to life. He retires to Dallas where he tries his best to live a normal life. However, being a Parker means that you will always be dragged to something. And so, after encountering a young immigrant girl almost at the point of dying, he suits up once again and reclaims his place as the Scarlet Spider.

More exploration into the concepts introduced in Araña and a look into the Clone Saga, which will also spawn stuff.

Flash Thompson - Agent Venom

Flash as Venom is best Venom. There, I said it. Former bully of Parker, later one of his best friends, and #1 Spider-Man fan. Has been operating for years as a government agent after being disabled since his time in the army. Ex-husband of Felicia Hardy aka Black Cat, and father of Felicity Thompson Hardy, now a coach at a Philadelphia high school.

We take a little break from the more Spider-centric narrative into the symbiote world. As well, the more worldwide adventures of Flash would let us see the rest of the world in a post-Spider-Man era.

Jessica Drew - Spider-Woman

A former CIA Agent, she now works as a private investigator alongside her partner Lindsay McCabe. Everything seems normal until one day she’s contacted by Parker Industries (!) for a special mission related to her past. She’s gonna have to suit up again in order to discover more about herself and get her bread.

Similar to Agent Venom, more worldbuilding and we see the existence of more organizations and factions within. I would also like to throw in Ultimate Jessica Drew as a potential partner, but would need more development to see if it isn’t too convoluted.

After all the establishment, we get a team-up movie where all this heroes meet for the first time, and I’m gonna leave this here. There’s already hints about heroes around, without going overboard like certain other failed cinematic universes had (Dark Universe, TASM). The most important thing is to not rush things and take their respective development. Focusing on the legacy heroes shows how important Spider-Man truly is in the world, and that’s what they should aim for.

#Spider Man #Miles Morales #Sony #Anya Corazon #Mayday Parker #Jessica Drew #Flash Thompson #Venom #Kaine Parker

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the-desolated-quill · 5 years ago

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Why Spider-Man Leaving The MCU Is The Best News I’ve Heard In Ages - Quill’s Scribbles

Oh frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! Did you hear the news? I’d be surprised if you didn’t. EVERYONE has heard the news by now. A couple of days ago it was reported that the deal between Marvel and Sony that allowed the two studios to share custody for the rights of Spider-Man has fallen through. Spider-Man is no longer going to be part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Speaking as someone who is not only a big Spider-Man fan, but also a very vocal critic of the current state of Marvel and Disney’s cynical and convoluted ‘shared universe’, this caused quite a reaction when I first heard the news. I’m as happy as a man who just found out his high school crush likes him back on the same day he won the lottery. Happy, but not surprised. In fact I’m more surprised that other people were surprised by the news. The deal Marvel and Sony managed to strike was almost unheard of. Two rival movie studios in mutual cooperation. Never thought I’d see the day. But if you thought this was going to be the new norm, then I’m afraid you don’t understand this industry. I knew, or at least suspected, that once Sony had a hit on their hands, they’d cut ties with Marvel and Disney. It was only a matter of time. Now that Spider-Man: Far From Home has made over a billion dollars at the box office and now they have found success with their own non-MCU films, Venom and Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse, the simple fact of the matter is they don’t need Marvel or Disney anymore. So they’ve flown the coop. Yes it’s possible they could renegotiate the deal, but given how unlikely the prospect of the initial deal was in the first place, I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you. It’s more likely they’re going to take their ball and go home. Sony’s Universe Of Marvel Characters (despite its incredibly clunky name) is now going to be firmly built upon and expanded, and I for one could not be more excited.

Of course not everyone shares my excitement. Disney, for one thing, aren’t happy. Nor are the cast. Jeremy Renner has made his views clear, begging Sony to give the rights to Spidey back. (Perhaps he should focus more on his own character Hawkeye, considering what a mess he’s become). Die hard MCU fans aren’t pleased neither. Same goes for ‘celebrity’ fans like Kevin Smith, a filmmaker who preferred to be called a comic book expert on the Venom Blu-Ray bonus features presumably because he hasn’t actually been relevant as a filmmaker since the 90s. (it’s worth reading his thoughts just for a laugh. He honestly thinks Disney aren’t greedy, corporate bastards. ROFL). And of course the so-called ‘professional’ critics, who for years have deluded themselves into thinking the MCU is actually good, have been writing their own little think pieces about what all this means. Can Spider-Man possibly survive without Iron Man and pals to prop him up? To which the answer is obviously yes. Sony had the rights to Spidey for fourteen years before the Marvel deal. They made five Spider-Man movies, four of which were massive box office successes. They also released Venom and Spider-Verse last year. Both hugely successful and the latter even won an Oscar, which is one more Oscar than Marvel Studios have ever won (sorry Black Panther. You were robbed).Can Spider-Man survive outside the MCU? Gee I don’t know. I guess somehow Sony will find the strength to soldier on without them.

Although, that being said, there’s not as many journalists siding with Disney as I thought there would be. There are quite a few articles explaining how this split could help Spidey in the long run, which is both absolutely true and refreshing to see. Hopefully this is a sign that we’re finally turning a corner and critics are starting to use their brains again. Like how everyone worshipped the ground Steven Moffat walked on until Sherlock Series 4 where everyone realised that he’s actually shit and has always been shit.

Spider-Man leaving the MCU is the best thing you could do for the character at this stage. The way he’s been treated since joining the Marvel clusterfuck has been nothing short of appalling. I’ve made it no secret how much I detest this version of Spider-Man and some might dismiss what I’m about to say out of hand, perhaps claiming I’m biased because I’ve said numerous times that I love The Amazing Spider-Man films starring Andrew Garfield. Two films I will go to my grave defending because they were bloody good movies. People were just butt hurt because it wasn’t Spider-Man 4. Never mind the fact that the original Sam Raimi films were never that good to begin with (seriously, have any of you actually watched Spider-Man 2 recently? Trust me. It’s not as good as you remember it). No, I promise you that if MCU Spidey existed in a vacuum, I would still hate him just as much for the simple reason that he has absolutely nothing in common with the source material. Under the watchful, Orwellian eye of Marvel, they took Spider-Man, a character most famous for being a working class everyman, and turned him into the most spoilt and privileged little bum-balloon I’ve ever seen.

Spider-Man: Homecoming was a terrible movie. Plain and simple. A cynically produced, written by committee, pile of wank that gets so much of Spidey’s character and story completely wrong, it’s almost impressive. No longer a teenager/young adult struggling to balance his superhero life, his school work, his career and his social life, instead we got a groomed Mary Sue who doesn’t have to fight for anything because everything is basically handed to him on a silver platter courtesy of Iron Man. We never see him struggle. He’s not relatable. He never has to face consequences for his actions. He misses God knows how many classes and debate group meetings and yet he never gets punished for it. Sure he gets sent to detention a couple of times, but we see him leave whenever he bloody wants to. It’s just boring. If there’s no struggle, where’s the tension? And the less said about the villain, the better. Taking an eccentric antagonist like the Vulture and turning him into the stereotypical blue collar dad trying to provide for his family has got to be one of the most uninspired and blatantly lazy bits of characterisation I think I’ve ever seen. And that’s not to mention the supporting cast. Aunt May is youthed for no reason other than to make sexist jokes at her expense with every man that comes within her general vicinity staring at her with their tongues hanging out and eyes as large as saucepans. Minor villains like Shocker and the Tinkerer have their characters reduced to unfunny comedy sidekicks. And then there’s Peter Parker’s gang of racial stereotypes. We have Peter’s best friend, the fat and nerdy Ned who has no real personality other than being fat and nerdy (and is without a doubt the most annoying character in the damn film). Flash has been racebent so now he’s the stereotypical arrogant Asian prick. Michelle has no character other than being the same sassy black teenager who don’t give a shit, a caricature so old now it’s practically been fossilised. And then there’s the love interest Liz, a character so bland and one dimensional that I had to look her name up. Oh and lets not forget that the majority of this Spider-Man’s story was nicked from Miles Morales because people are only going to empathise with his story if it revolves around a white kid, am I right?

You know, I get so frustrated whenever people slag off the Amazing Spider-Man movies and claim that these new movies are better because... well... WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?! I’m sorry, but I was much more invested with Peter and Gwen than I ever was with Peter and... what’s her face? Or Peter and Michelle (who I categorically refuse to call MJ because she’s not MJ, is she? They just used the initials to pander to gullible fans. They didn’t have the guts to just make Mary Jane Watson black, did they? Of course not! We don’t want to alienate the casual racists, do we? They’re our main demographic after all). The reason why Peter and Gwen worked is because they’re well-written, three dimensional characters with great chemistry and whom we actually spend a significant amount of time getting to know. So when Gwen dies at the end of The Amazing Spider-Man 2, it becomes a heart wrenching moment because we’ve grown invested in this character and this relationship. If Michelle were to die in a future movie, I honestly wouldn’t bat a fucking eyelid. Even Tobey Maguire and Kirsten Dunst had more chemistry than those two, and that relationship was a total shambles from start to finish.

It also helps that Peter and Gwen felt like real people. I loved the scene in the first movie where Peter awkwardly asks her out because it reminded me so much of how I asked my first girlfriend out. And that’s why I love the Amazing Spider-Man movies. Because out of all the Spidey films we’ve had over the past 17 years, the Amazing ones are the only ones in my opinion that manage to capture the humanity of the character. As fantastical as the world is, the characters, their relationships and their dilemmas are grounded firmly in reality. Homecoming on the other hand is just embarrassing. Despite casting teenage actors, none of the teenagers actually act like teenagers. They act like five year olds. It’s painfully obvious that the filmmakers are trying to pander to young kids and they clearly don’t know how to write them. Again, this is where the Amazing movies stands head and shoulders above the others. They’re not treated like kids or teenagers. They’re treated like people. Real people. Same goes for the villains. (Yes, even Electro, despite wonky execution).

But the main criticism people have with MCU Spidey is that these films aren’t actually about Spidey. They’re really about the MCU mascot Iron Man.

Now to be clear, I don’t necessarily have a problem with the idea of Iron Man being a surrogate father figure to Spidey. It could work. Captain America: Civil War, despite the clunky and contrived way in which Spidey was introduced to the MCU (oh you just happened to know about a masked vigilante we haven’t seen or heard of until now Tony? Okay. What about Daredevil and Luke Cage?... What do you mean they’re not in the movie?), did a good job of setting up the dynamic. Namely that Tony doesn’t actually care about Peter or his well being, merely using him for his own ends. Unless Americans have some kind of ‘Bring Your Child To A Warzone Day’ I don’t know about.

Despite its flaws, Civil War was good because it gave us an unsettling look at the characters we’ve been watching for years. We see Captain America consumed by his own naivety and idealism to the point where he can no longer see the bigger picture and we see Iron Man go from being an industrial capitalist to an authoritarian fascist. Homecoming could have followed up on that. Have Spidey realise that Tony doesn’t have his best interests at heart, reject him as a father figure and grow into his own man. Instead the movie seems to go out of its way to undo all the interesting things Civil War brought to the table. Of course Tony cares about Peter! Oh and his relationship problems with Pepper Potts have been magically fixed off screen and now they’re getting married! Relax people, it’s okay! Nothing morally complicated going on here! We apologise for assuming you’re actually intelligent and promise never to make you think about anything ever again!

Not only is this quite insulting to the audience, it also negatively impacts Spidey’s arc. Turns out the movie isn’t about Spider-Man becoming his own man. It’s about him proving he can be an Avenger. He’s constantly in the shadow of Iron Man and, more to the point, we’re supposed to be happy that he’s in the shadow of Iron Man.

Again, this is where the Amazing Spider-Man gets it right. The first movie is very much about father figures. Uncle Ben, Curt Connors and Gwen’s dad all play a role in Peter’s growth and development over the course of the film. He’s able to take all the lessons and advice he gets from the three and use them to become his own man. As director Marc Webb so eloquently put it, ‘it’s a story about a kid who grows up looking for his father and finds himself.’ Compare that to the current iteration of Spidey where Uncle Ben doesn’t even appear to exist in this continuity because he’s been completely supplanted by Iron Dad. Remind me again why people think the Amazing movies are shit?

The latest film, Spider-Man: Far From Home, is no better. Same problems as before only this time Mysterio gets MCU’d to death. Instead of the pathetic loser trying desperately to receive recognition for his talents, we basically get a rehash of the plot from Iron Man 3, which in turn was a rehash of the plot from The Incredibles. Mysterio is basically trying to supplant Iron Man because he got screwed over when he used to work for Stark, and it’s up to everyone’s favourite wall-crawler to stop him because there’s only room in this universe for one Iron Boy. Even when Iron Man is dead, he’s still front and centre of the fucking narrative. Here’s a bright idea. How about we make a Spider-Man film that’s actually, you know, about Spider-Man? (Oh yeah, spoiler alert, Iron Man dies in Avengers: Endgame. Not that it’s really spoiling anything because Endgame is a big piece of shit).

Here’s the thing. Everyone is blaming Sony for the deal breaking down, and okay, I’m not going to pretend that Sony aren’t cynical. As much as I love The Amazing Spider-Man movies, I’m well aware the only reason they exist is because Sony desperately wanted to keep the rights. They spent a stupid amount of money on The Amazing Spider-Man 2 to the point where it needed to make a billion dollars at the box office in order to make a decent profit (a feat only achieved at that time by Batman with The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises) and they crammed loads of characters and plot points into an already overstuffed movie in order to rush out their own shared universe to compete with Marvel. When that didn’t work, they went crawling to Marvel and Disney in the hopes that the MCU could bail them out of the shit. I get it. There’s plenty to criticise. But for the likes of Kevin Smith and other idiots to only blame Sony and defend Marvel is really quite galling to me because Marvel and Disney are just as cynical, if not more so.

Does anyone here actually know what the deal was? Basically the agreement was that Kevin Feige would get lead producer credit for any solo Spider-Man films and Marvel and Disney would get five percent of the cut. Meanwhile Spider-Man would be allowed to appear in any MCU film. Also, because Sony still hold the rights to the character, they get the final say on any creative decision regarding Spider-Man. Or at least that’s the theory anyway. In reality that wasn’t the case. Reportedly Marvel and Disney were so anal about keeping the plot of Avengers: Endgame a secret that they didn’t tell the screenwriters of Spider-Man: Far From Home what happens in the bloody film. And considering that the film follows directly on from Endgame, that’s quite a problem. Sony may have creative control over Spider-Man, but Marvel and Disney can still call the shots, deliberately sabotaging Sony in order to boost hype for their own films. Also Sony are actually worse off in this deal because Marvel and Disney are the ones making all the money. Spider-Man has appeared in three MCU films. Captain America: Civil War, Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame. All three of these films made Marvel and Disney over a billion dollars at the box office. Sony meanwhile have only made two Spidey movies, Homecoming and Far From Home, only one of which has made over a billion and both of which Marvel and Disney get five percent of the profit. Now that Sony have finally got their billion dollar Spider-Man movie, Marvel and Disney had the cheek to propose that Sony share fifty percent of the profits with them. Because it’s not enough for Marvel and Disney to be making shit tons of money off their own films. No. They also want as much money as they can get out of films made by other studios that are only tangentially related to their’s. God forbid a movie studio should be allowed to keep all the profits from their movie.

So yeah, I’m glad Sony have split and are free to make their own movies again. Because Disney have got such a strangle hold on the entire industry that I’m always happy to see any studio or IP slip through their fingers. And I’m not the only one who thinks this. Do you know who else agrees with me? Stan Lee’s own daughter.

In an interview with TMZ, Joan Lee slammed Disney for their lack of compassion when her father passed away:

“When my father died, no one from Marvel or Disney reached out to me. From day one, they have commoditised my father’s work and never shown him or his legacy any respect or decency. In the end, no one could have treated my father worse than Marvel and Disney’s executives.”

She then went on to support Sony’s decision to break the deal with Marvel, saying ‘whether it’s Sony or someone else’s, the continued evolution of Stan’s characters and his legacy deserves multiple points of view.’

And do you know what? She’s right. She’s absolutely right.

While people were celebrating when Disney bought 20th Century Fox because the X-Men and Fantastic Four were finally going to be part of their precious shared universe, I was watching in absolute horror because nobody was actually talking about the ramifications of this. Disney serves as a cautionary tale of what happens when capitalism goes unchecked. Seeing this mega-corporation consume and absorb other major studios like some Lovecraftian monster is both frightening and heartbreaking for me because the industry is going to be so much lesser for it. Less studios means less movies are going to be produced. It also means less variety in the entertainment we consume. Marvel and Disney have already done their utmost to homogenise and dumb down every MCU film to the point where most of them all feel the same, look the same and have nothing unique or creative about them whatsoever. And now we’re on the cusp of seeing that potentially happening to my most favourite superhero in the whole wide world:

Thanks to the Disney buyout, plans for X-Force and Deadpool 3 have been placed on indefinite hold with people reckoning we won’t see the Merc with the Mouth again until Phase 5 (Christ, give me strength) of the MCU so that Marvel and Disney can work out exactly how to fit him into their shared universe. Naturally the R rated nature of the character makes him difficult to integrate into the PG-13 MCU. Some have suggested toning down the character. Even David Leitch, the director of Deadpool 2, said they could make a PG-13 version of the character, which just feels like such a massive betrayal. After literally years of Ryan Reynolds, director Tim Miller, screenwriters Rhett Reese and Paul Wernick, and the fans fighting tooth and claw to get an R rated Deadpool movie green-lit, it sickens me whenever I see people discussing how a PG-13 Deadpool wouldn’t be so bad and that they just want to see him pop up in an Avengers movie.

Here’s a suggestion. If you can’t make someone like Deadpool fit into the MCU, STOP TRYING TO FUCKING DO IT! Let him be his own separate thing! I’ve got no problem with that! But no. Everything has to be connected to this idiotic shared universe, but here’s the thing, I really don’t fucking care. I couldn’t give two shits if Deadpool and Captain America were to meet in a movie. I just want to see X-Force and Deadpool 3. I just want some good fucking movies. Is that really too much to ask?

The MCU, and by extension Disney, are slowly ruining the industry with this shared universe crap and I’m getting so bloody sick of this. Not only does the premise have absolutely nothing new to offer at this point, it’s also ruining the quality of standalone movies. Instead of telling compelling stories with likeable characters, they’re just adverts for more movies to come with nothing unique to offer. Oooooh, can the Avengers stop Thanos and unkill everyone who we know aren’t really dead because they all have fucking sequels planned? Tune in next week to confirm what you already bloody know! I don’t give a fuck what you’ve got planned for me down the road in ten or fifteen movies time. Right now I’m stuck here at a service station and I’ve got no fucking sandwiches.

Off the top of my head, the only MCU films I can think of that I’ve watched in recent memory and I’ve actually enjoyed are Captain America: Civil War and Black Panther. And do you know why? Because they actually have something to say. They’re not focused on teasing the next bullshit spinoff movie. Black Panther in particular has little to no connection with the rest of the MCU. It works as its own standalone piece and has its own unique voice, commenting on how black people are viewed in society. Civil War takes elements from previous films and goes in an entirely new direction with them, exploring the faults in our beloved Avengers and questioning their role as superheroes. It offers something beyond a tease for the next film. It poses thought provoking questions about the characters and forces us to confront some harsh truths about them. But in an environment like the MCU, where everything is pre-planned by committee, there’s no room for creativity or expression, which means the few good movies get stifled. It’s impossible to continue the themes of Civil War because Homecoming exists to contradict everything. Black Panther is an amazing and impactful movie, but its impact is lessened thanks to Infinity War where we see the Wakandans reduced to little more than cannon fodder so that the real heroes can fight the baddie.

It’s frustrating to see people blindly accept and support the poisonous business model of Marvel and Disney because it’s not normal, it’s not benefiting the industry at large and it’s not even financially viable in the long term. Marvel Studios’ success revolves around one franchise. What happens when the shared universe/comic book movie bubble bursts and people eventually stop watching these films? (and it will happen because it always happens. That’s how trends work). They’re going to be up shit street, aren’t they? At least Warner Bros have Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings to fall back on. Their future isn’t entirely dependant on the success of the DCEU (thank God, some might say).

Also it’s worth noting that studios are slowly starting to move away from the shared universe format. Before the buyout, 20th Century Fox were taking risks with smaller budget, standalone movies like Deadpool and Logan. After the disaster that was Justice League, Warner Bros and DC have recently started focusing more on standalone movies to great success. Aquaman and Shazam, while still part of the DCEU, work as their own independent films. We’ve also got Joker being released in a couple of months time, which I think everyone should be paying really close attention to, because if Joker is critically and commercially successful, it could very well serve as the death knell for the concept of a shared universe. Definitive proof that you don’t need twenty movies and interconnecting stories with massive budgets to be successful. All you need is a very good idea.

Even Sony have finally learnt their lesson. They’ve taken a risk with Into The Spider-Verse and received an Academy Award for their trouble. As for Sony’s Universe Of Marvel Characters, they’re already off to a strong start with Venom. And mercifully they’re not making the same mistakes they did with the Amazing Spider-Man 2 or Ghostbusters. They’re not spending ridiculous amounts of money with unrealistic expectations of success and they’re no longer putting the cart way before the horse. They’re focusing on making a good movie first and worrying about potential expansion later. Venom may not be a masterpiece, but it’s a hell of a lot more entertaining and fulfilling than the majority of MCU films because it tells a complete story with a beginning, middle and end and it has well developed characters that we actually like and grow attached to. And if worst comes to the worst and Sony’s next film, Morbius, doesn’t do well, then they have Venom 2 to fall back on. And if that doesn’t work, they’ll still have Spider-Verse. They are no longer putting all their eggs in one basket and that’s good. That’s the smart thing to do.

Can you imagine something like Venom in the MCU? Of course not! Because Venom has its own unique tone and vision. That’s why it was so successful with audiences. Its mix of dark comedy and campy sci-fi horror made it stand out from the crowd. Marvel and Disney want us to believe that there’s only one way to make a superhero movie, when that’s simply not true. And now that Spider-Man is free to find his own unique voice again, hopefully people will begin to see just how creatively limiting and damaging the MCU truly is.

#spider-man #sony #anti marvel #anti disney #quill's scribbles

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leilawhittaker · 4 years ago

Note

do you think you could list out like the titles of the different sections/acts with their corresponding films/when they take place? sorry if this is like a lot i just find a lot of comfort in the fullness of the mcu and i would love to see kind of like an what the mm universe looks like ? sorry if this is weird rip

Not weird at all omg!! I’ve been meaning to post something like that! Just a heads up, the MMCU is...slightly less cinematic than the canon MCU, as a lot of the original plotlines I imagine as comics or graphic novels.

Guide

Format

So the format for this list goes like

Fic Title | MMCU Title | Media Type

For example:

Out of the Woods | Black Widow: Out of the Woods | Movie

Means that the fic is called Out of the Woods, but if the MMCU were canon, it’d be a movie called Black Widow: Out of the Woods

If the MMCU Title is followed by (Canon) that means the fic correlates to a canon piece of material, as opposed to an original plotline. For example:

Battle Royale | Avengers (Canon) | Movie

Means that the fic Battle Royale corresponds to the Avengers, and largely follows the canon plotline of that arc.

An asterisk at the beginning, and only one title, means the movie exists in the MMCU, but happens as it does in canon, with no OC interference. Example:

*Black Panther | Movie

Means there’s no corresponding fic or replacement fic for that movie (...yet), but that it still takes place within the MMCU canon. Note that I’ve only done this with movies; suffice it to say that aside from Agents of SHIELD, all MCU-based TV series are MM canon; if they aren’t listed, it’s just because I have no OCs or non-canon plotlines for them. Same goes for Marvel Shorts. As for canon tie-in comics, I haven’t read enough of them to decide which ones are MM canon or not; once I’ve read them all I’ll update this list accordingly if necessary.

Other Notes

The list is of all fics, in chronological order, so ones that don’t focus on Leila’s arc have been marked as spin-offs. They still take place in the MMCU, and they’re placed in the list according to when they take place, they’re just not Leila-focused. (If there’s interest, I might do another version of this list organized by when things are released, rather than chronological order, EG Captain Marvel would be part of Phase 3 instead of Phase 1, Black Widow: Family Business would be listed after Endgame, etc.)

The first fic (The Kindness of Strangers, aka the first two chapters of MM on ffnet) is weird because I see it being split, with one chapter being told as a marvel short and the second one being told as a tie-in comic, with the very last scene of Leila being sent by Fury to recruit Steve also existing as a post-credit scene for CA:TFA.

Some of these I haven’t come up with titles for yet, so I just put working titles or descriptors. AKA “Untitled AoS Replacement Fic” is obviously not called that, it’s a fic that I haven’t titled yet that serves as a replacement for Agents of SHIELD in the MMCU.

Finally, this is all subject to change, I’m still ironing out a lot of things--for example, I may make an OC for Ant-Man, and I might go back to using MCU’s Spidey. We’ll see. (I may release a variation on this list as to what the MMCU looks like with MCU Spidey as opposed to TASM Spidey.)

Without further ado, here is the MMCU as I currently imagine it!

Mirror, Mirror Cinematic Universe

PHASE ONE

Captain America: The First Avenger | Movie

Has a post-credits scene that corresponds to the last scene of TKOS, in which Nick Fury assigns Leila to recruit Steve to help find the tesseract

Untitled Captain Marvel Fic | Captain Marvel | Movie

The OC doesn’t appear anywhere else, but they’re important to Leila’s story. (Hint: It has to do with the Patrice Joh mystery.)

The Kindness of Strangers ch. 1 | Recruitment Day | Marvel Short

Note: despite taking place about ~4-5 years before the events of The Avengers, this short is only released shortly before the movie, as a way to build up hype.

*Iron Man | Movie

*The Incredible Hulk | Movie

*Iron Man 2 | Movie

*Thor | Movie

The Kindness of Strangers, ch. 2 | Royal Engagements (Prelude to Marvel’s The Avengers) | Tie-In Comic

The Kindness of Strangers (Last Scene) | N/A | Post-Credits Scene (CA:TFA)

Battle Royale | The Avengers (Canon) | Movie

PHASE TWO

Queen’s Gambit | Captain America and Snow White: Queen’s Gambit | Graphic Novel

Original plotline. Leila, under Fury’s orders, tries to recruit Steve to join SHIELD as a STRIKE agent, and it leads to her and Steve solving a mysterious series of bombings together.

SPINOFF: Untitled AoS Replacement | Agents of SHIELD | TV Miniseries

Basically takes the place of AoS as a post-Avengers show about Coulson’s SHIELD team, but with a whole different (but equally diverse) cast. Runs until it ties in with Operation: Glass Coffin.

Castle Walls | Captain America and Snow White: Castle Walls | Graphic Novel

Original plotline. Carries on from Queen’s Gambit as Steve, now a SHIELD agent, and Leila try to solve the loose threads from the QG case.

*The Amazing Spider-Man | Movie

Sparks Fly | Captain America and Snow White: The Forest Through the Trees | Graphic Novel

Original plotline. Fury has allowed Leila to handle Gifted cases between STRIKE missions. Together with Steve, she embarks on a simple extraction mission that ends up uncovering a sinister conspiracy in a small town, the two of them growing closer in the process.

Royal Flush | Captain America and Snow White: Royal Flush | Graphic Novel

Original Plotline. SHIELD has tracked down the missing copy of their server from QG and CW, and it’s Leila’s job, with the help of Steve, and two new allies named Isabella Ferreira and Mena Desai, to go undercover to get it back. Unfortunately, this involves fake dating a nouveau riche silicon valley douchebag, which wouldn’t be so bad if there wasn’t someone she wanted to date for real. Maybe. Kind of. Probably not. But...

Codename: Snow White | Codename: Snow White | Movie

Original Plotline. Leila must face her past as old enemies try to draw attention to her biggest mistakes to undermine her status as an Avenger, in full view of her new allies and friends.

The Reckless and the Brave | Iron Man 3 (Canon) | Movie

Untitled Thor: TTD Fic | Thor: The Dark World (Canon) | Movie

The Miller’s Daughter | Snow White: The Miller’s Daughter | Graphic Novel

Original Plotline. Steve doesn’t know about Leila as much as he thinks he does. It turns out, Leila can keep secrets other than her own.

Untitled TWS Prelude Fic | Marvel’s Captain America: The Winter Soldier Infinite Comic (Canon) | Comic

Untitled TWS Fic | Captain America: The Winter Soldier | Movie

SIEGE Team Alpha | Snow White: Agent of SWORD | Graphic Novel

Original Plotline. While Steve, Sam and Natasha choose to stay behind, Leila takes Fury up on his offer to go to Europe, searching for answers about her healing factor. However, with a kree serum running through her veins, she rapidly begins to lose her grip on her life.

SPINOFF: Midwinter | Midwinter | TV series OR comic series (I haven’t decided)

Original plotline. After breaking free of Hydra, Bucky gives himself one more mission: save the girl he once condemned to his own fate. After jailbreaking Anya Maximoff, the two of them embark on a mission to explore their pasts and their futures, blowing up a few Hydra bases along the way. Bucky/OC.

SPINOFF: Out of the Woods | Black Widow: Out of the Woods | Movie

Original plotline. After the fall of SHIELD, Natasha discovered what she’d intentionally buried even from herself: her younger sister, Alexandra. Angry at a world that should have protected her but didn’t, Alex chooses to disappear after TWS, leading Alex to go after her...with some help. Brucenat pre-relationship, OC/OC.

SPINOFF: Untitled GotG Fic | Guardians of the Galaxy | Movie

Original plotline. Banished dragon princess meets Stark-worshipping Nova Corps officer. What could possibly go wrong? OC/OC.

*The Amazing Spider-Man 2 | Movie

Operation: Glass Coffin | Operation: Glass Coffin | TV Miniseries

Original plotline. A very unstable Leila finally finds what she’s been looking for for her entire adult life: a way to erase her own memories. Only, it turns out, once her memories are gone, something else takes their place…

Untitled OGC/AoU interim fic | Untitled | Comic Series OR Graphic Novel

Original plotlines, or perhaps a series of plotlines. Steve and Leila grow closer as Leila helps with the search for Bucky, and Steve helps her recover from her ordeal from O:GC.

Untitled AoU Fic | Avengers: Age of Ultron | Movie

*Ant-Man | Movie

PHASE 3

Domestic Politics | Show White and Captain America: Domestic Politics | Graphic Novel Series

Original plotline, or series of plotlines. Leila and Steve, the two worst equipped people to be in an adult relationship, figure it out together.

SPINOFF: Untitled Defenders Fic | Daredevil | TV Series

The one where Leila’s former lackey goes head to head with Matt Murdock in more ways than one. Also, Matt has a sister, because I have a brand to maintain. OC/Matt/OC OR Matt/OC, Frank/OC, also Foggy/OC.

Under Siege | Snow White: Under Siege | Movie

Original plotline. When the Sokovia Accords threaten to rip the Avengers apart, Leila sees one solution: legitimize SWORD as an intelligence agency by stopping a war between two small but significant European countries. Easier said than done when two fugitive ex-Hydra assets get involved.

*Doctor Strange | Movie

Everything is the same except the Ancient One is played by Dichen Lachman.

SPINOFF: Untitled GotG2 Fic | Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 2 | Movie

SPINOFF: Untitled Alex Fic | Untitled | TV Series OR Graphic Novel Series OR Comic Series

In the aftermath of the Under Siege debacle, Alex is one of the Avengers who is able to escape going into hiding. Instead she has her own adventures, from assisting Tony Stark with missions to mentoring Peter Parker and his friends.

SPINOFF: Untitled Luna and Haven Fic | Untitled | TV Series OR Graphic Novel Series OR Comic Series

The one where Peter Parker falls in love with former villain Haven Hendrix, and Luna Li falls in love with current villain Harry Osborn.

Untitled Cap 3 Fic | Captain America: Insurgence | Movie

Original Plotline. Serpent Squad maybe? Mostly character driven more than plot driven.

SPINOFF: Family Business | Black Widow: Family Business | Movie

Technically corresponds to Black Widow (2020). Since in the MMCU it’s the second BW movie, it would have a subtitle.

SPINOFF: Dancing With Our Hands Tied | Thor: Ragnarok | Movie/Graphic Novel

A large part of this fic takes place in the six week gap between Loki and Thor’s arrivals on Sakaar. (In canon, it was three weeks; here, it’s six.) As a result, Alex would be present in the movie, and what happened between her and Loki would mostly be told through implications in the movie, until the graphic novel came out and explored those six weeks more thoroughly.

*Black Panther | Movie

*Ant-Man and the Wasp | Movie

Untitled IW Fic | Avengers: Infinity War | Movie

Untitled IW/EG Interrim Fic(s) | Untitled | Comics

A lot can happen in five years.

Untitled EG Fic | Avengers: Endgame | Movie

Daylight | Snow White and Captain America: Daylight | Comic

Just a oneshot or two covering Steve and Leila’s Happily Ever After.

Other Story Elements

There are other stories here that I’m not sure what to call or how to structure. I want to explore the Avengers Academy that eventually gets established after Endgame; the aftermath of Endgame for Loki and Alex; Bucky and Anya’s eventual own HEA; Jace Barton’s character arc and romance with Pietro Maximoff; and a few other post-EG plotlines. I’ll keep reworking this outline as needed. In other words, this is very much a work in progress, but it’s what I have right now. The main Leila/Steve storyline is largely in tact, it’s just other characters that I’m still ironing out.

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ragnarachael · 6 years ago

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DRABBLES + ONESHOTS MASTERLIST

here’s all the drabbles and oneshots i’ve posted! requests are currently closed! you can also find my new and old works that aren’t on this list on my blog by searching rachael writes or [character name] x reader!

click HERE for the masterlist to my chaptered fics such as: JUKEBOX HERO, PLEAD THE FIFTH. click HERE for the masterlist to my ongoing series such as: PROOF TONY STARK HAS A HEART, THE VALIANT ARSONIST.

WANT TO CHAT ABOUT A FIC? WANT HEADCANONS FROM A CERTAIN FIC UNIVERSE? CLICK HERE!

last updated — june 20th, 2020

MARVEL

PETER PARKER

CRUSH CITY, POPULATION: US — ONESHOT

Y/N’S FRIEND DRAGS HER TO A PARTY WHERE SHE ENDS UP TALKING WITH PETER, A GUY THAT SHE SHARES A FEW CLASSES WITH AND MAY OR MAY NOT KINDA HAVE A LITTLE CRUSH ON.

THE ONE WITH THE SOCKS IN BED — DRABBLE

PETER IS SICK, WEARING SOCKS TO BED, AND REALLY NEEDS A CUDDLE.

THE ONE WITH THE BLACK EYE — DRABBLE

PETER’S SPIDEY REFLEXES AREN’T ALWAYS HANDY. (FEATURES NELSON & MURDOCK!READER AND FRIEND!MATT MURDOCK)

THE ONE WITH THE EXISTENTIAL QUESTION — DRABBLE

YOU AND PETER ARE TALKING ABOUT ALTERNATE UNIVERSES WHEN HE ASKS THE QUESTION EVERYONE IN THE COMPOUND HAS BEEN WAITING FOR.

THE ONE WITH THE CHARITY GALA — DRABBLE

PETER ASKED YOU TO BE HIS FAKE DATE TO TONY STARK’S CHARITY GALA. (COLLEGE!AU)

THE ONE WITH THE CHARITY GALA PRT 2 — DRABBLE

WHO KNEW PETER WOULD PICK YOU OVER OSCAR ISAAC?

THE ONE WITH RUMLOW AND THE SPY — DRABBLE

YOU AND YOUR AGENCY WORK FOR TONY STARK SO YOU CAN CATCH BROCK RUMLOW. ALONG THE WAY, YOU RUN INTO PETER PARKER.

THE ONE WITH RUMLOW AND THE SPY PRT 2 — DRABBLE

YOU’RE FORCED TO STAY BACK AND CLEAN. YOU RUN INTO PETER PARKER ONCE AGAIN.

THE ONE WITH THE KNIFE VINE — DRABBLE

YOU AND PETER GET CAKE AS A REWARD.

THE ONE WHERE TONY HAS TO DO ALL THE WORK — DRABBLE

TONY THINKS YOU AND THE KID ARE CUTE. UNTIL HE HAS TO WAKE YOU TWO UP.

THE ONE WITH THE DIMENSION HOPPER — DRABBLE

YOU’RE STARGAZING WHEN PETER DECIDES TO BE A PAIN IN THE ASS. (FEATURING BECK!READER)

THE ONE WITH WUTHERING HEIGHTS — DRABBLE

PETER WANTED TO HAVE A “STUDY SESSION.”

THE ONE WITH THE SALAD —DRABBLE

YOU AND PETER ARE ON YOUR FIRST DATE SINCE TONY FOUND OUT YOU TWO WERE DATING.

THE ONE WITH THE FEAR OF BIKES — DRABBLE

YOU DON’T DIG BIKES AT ALL.

THE ONE WITH THE NEW YORK SIREN — DRABBLE

SPIDER-MAN IS FACE TO FACE WITH NEW YORK’S NEWEST VIGILANTE.

THE ONE WITH THE FRUIT PUNCH — DRABBLE

PETER FINALLY TALKS TO YOU AT A PARTY. TONY HAS TO INTERRUPT BEFORE YOU DO MORE THAN TALKING. (FEATURING COLLEGE!PETER X COLLEGE!READER)

SPRING HAS SPRUNG — ONESHOT (REQUESTED)

SPRING BREAK MEANT COMING HOME AND RUNNING AWAY FROM YOUR PROBLEMS FOR A WEEK OR TWO. HOWEVER, THE SECOND PETER PARKER COMES TO YOUR PLACE TO CRASH FOR A FEW DAYS, YOU FIGURE OUT THAT YOUR PROBLEMS FOLLOWED YOU INTO THE COMFORT OF YOUR OWN HOME. (FEATURING COLLEGE!PETER X COLLEGE STARK!READER)

MICHELLE JONES

REEVALUATION — ONESHOT (REQUESTED)

YOU AND MJ HAVE BEEN HAVING SOME TROUBLES IN YOUR FRIENDSHIP FOR THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS, AND IT TAKES THE ART COMPETITION AT MIDTOWN HIGH TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF WHY SHE’S BEEN ACTING SO RUDE TO YOU.

THE ONE WITH THE ENGLISH CLASS — DRABBLE

MJ TRIES IMPRESSING YOU DURING YOUR ENGLISH CLASS.

MATT MURDOCK

POOL — ONESHOT

IT’S DATE NIGHT FOR YOU AND MATT, SO YOU BOTH DECIDED IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO PLAY A NICE FRIENDLY GAME OF POOL IN JOSIE’S BAR.

THE ONE WITH THE DEVIL’S BABY — DRABBLE

YOU’VE BEEN SICK LATELY AND TRIED TO HIDE IT.

BLUE MOON — ONESHOT/POTENTIAL SERIES

AFTER A ROUGH BREAKUP YOU HEAD BACK TO THE ONE PLACE THAT’LL HELP YOU DROWN YOUR IMPENDING SORROWS: JOSIE’S.

THE ONE WITH THE KNOCK OFF DAREDEVIL SUIT — DRABBLE

YOU AND MATT ARE HEADING TO FOGGY’S HALLOWEEN PARTY.

STEPHEN STRANGE

SILVIA AND THE GOOGLE SEARCH — ONESHOT

SILVIA’S FEELING A LITTLE UNDER THE WEATHER AND INSTEAD OF INFORMING HER FATHER, SHE GOOGLES HER SYMPTOMS. STEPHEN WISHES SHE DIDN’T DO THAT. (FEATURING MY OC SILVIA STRANGE, FATHER!STEPHEN STRANGE)

THE ONE WITH PERSUASION — DRABBLE

STEPHEN’S TRYING TO CONVINCE YOU TO COME TO A PARTY AS HIS PLUS ONE. (TECHNICAL PROLOGUE FOR A NEW ER NURSE!READER FIC)

PIECES OF EGG — ONESHOT

YOU WERE COOKING BREAKFAST WHEN YOUR FAVORITE SONG CAME ON. (FEATURING ER NURSE!READER)

THE ONE WITH THE PREGNANCY SCARE — DRABBLE

YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE PREGNANT AND END UP SUGGESTING AN ALTERNATIVE BIRTH CONTROL METHOD TO STEPHEN.

THE ONE WITH THE HAMILTON BIOGRAPHY — DRABBLE

STEPHEN STARTS HIS FIRST DAY AT STARK AND POTTS ILLUSTRATED MEETING YOU.

THE ONE WITH THE BASSET HOUND — DRABBLE

YOU REALLY WANT STEPHEN’S DOG.

THE ONE WITH UNREQUITED LOVE — DRABBLE

YOU KNEW YOU FELT SOMETHING FOR STEPHEN. BUT HE LOVED CHRISTINE.

THE ONE WITH THE SECOND DATE — DRABBLE

STEPHEN STRANGE IS GENUINELY A GOOD DATE.

THE ONE WITH SPAGHETTI NIGHT — DRABBLE

STEPHEN’S DAUGHTER TRIES TO KNOCK SOME SENSE INTO HIM. (FEATURING MY OC, SILVIA STRANGE!)

THE ONE WITH THE CHAI LATTE — DRABBLE

STEPHEN JUST WANTED TO GET COFFEE BEFORE HIS MEETING.

THE ONE WITH THE HARRY POTTER REFERENCE — DRABBLE

YOU NEVER THOUGHT YOU’D SEE THE DAY STEPHEN GETS ASSIGNED A NICKNAME BY TONY STARK.

THE ONE WITH THE POTENTIAL MUGGING — DRABBLE

STEPHEN’S DOORS ARE OPEN TO YOU 24/7.

THE ONE WITH THE SOCK THIEF — DRABBLE

STEPHEN’S HURT AND YOU PATCH HIM UP.

THE ONE WHERE YOU REMIND YOURSELF OF TWILIGHT — DRABBLE

YOU CAN’T SLEEP AND DECIDE THAT STARING AT YOUR BOYFRIEND IS A GOOD PASTIME.

I’LL LIVE TO SEE ANOTHER DAY — ONESHOT

YOU’RE FINALLY BACK IN YOUR APARTMENT FROM YOUR LONG SHIFT AT METRO-GENERAL, BUT YOUR MYSTICAL BOYFRIEND DECIDED YOU COULDN’T TAKE A BREAK YET. (FEATURING ER NURSE!READER)

BATTLE OF WIT — ONESHOT

STEPHEN REALIZES AFTER YOUR MOST RECENT BATTLE THAT HE CAN’T LOSE YOU, NO MATTER THE CIRCUMSTANCE. HE’S JUST... TERRIBLE AT EXPRESSING HIS FEELINGS PROPERLY.

WADE WILSON

SHOULDA, COULDA, WOULDA — ONESHOT

WADE DIDN’T WANT TO RUIN HIS KID’S NIGHT WITH HER ‘BOYFRIEND,’ BUT HE DIDN’T HAVE MUCH OF A CHOICE, SHE HAD A RIGHT TO KNOW. (FEATURING FATHER!WADE WILSON AND PETER PARKER X DEADPOOL’S!DAUGHTER)

STEVE ROGERS

PROMISES PROMISES — ONESHOT

STEVE WISHES YOU’D STOP REMINISCING WHEN YOU’RE LITERALLY BLEEDING OUT IN HIS ARMS.

THE ONE WITH THE COFFEE SHOP — DRABBLE

BUCKY CATCHES STEVE SKETCHING A GIRL WHO ALWAYS COMES TO A LOCAL COFFEE SHOP ACROSS THE STREET FROM THEIR APARTMENT AND CONVINCES HIM TO TALK TO HER.

THE ONE WITH THE COFFEE SHOP PRT 2 — DRABBLE

STEVE FINALLY GETS THE COURAGE TO TALK TO THE GIRL WITH THE SHIELD HAT AND CIA PATCH.

THE ONE WITH THE GINGERBREAD ZOMBIES — DRABBLE

YOU WISH HALLOWEEN WAS CELEBRATED A LOT MORE THAN CHRISTMAS IS.

THE ONE WITH THE STUTTER — DRABBLE

YOU’RE TRYING TO TELL STEVE SOMETHING IMPORTANT.

TONY STARK

THE ONE WITH NO RESOLUTION — DRABBLE

TONY FEELS OBLIGATED TO FIND A WAY TO GET EVERYONE BACK. (SOME AVENGERS: ENDGAME SPOILERS!!)

THE ONE WITH THE GOLDFISH — DRABBLE

YOUR NIECE LOVES MAKING A MESS.

THE ONE WITH THE DRUNK LOVER — DRABBLE

YOU HAD A GIRLS NIGHT AND WENT A LITTLE OVERBOARD.

THE ONE WITH YOUR NIECE — DRABBLE

YOUR NIECE GIVES TONY THE BEST CROWN AROUND.

THE ONE WITH THE DINNER CONTRACT — DRABBLE

YOU AND TONY ARE BACK FROM TRAVELING TO VISIT YOUR FAMILY AND FIND THAT JET LAG IS A GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING.

THE ONE WITH THE DOG — DRABBLE

TRYING TO CONVINCE TONY STARK TO GET A DOG FOR THE AVENGERS IS HARD UNTIL THOR IS BROUGHT INTO THE MIX.

THE ONE WITH THE PEPPERMINT — DRABBLE

TONY OFFERS YOU A DRINK YOU HAVE TO REFUSE.

LOKI ODINSON/LAUFEYSON

THE ONE WITH THE TRICKSTER — DRABBLE

LOKI WOKE YOU UP BY GIVING YOU A WET-WILLIE.

THE ONE WITH THE BOZO — DRABBLE

AT STARK AND POTTS ILLUSTRATED, LOKI BULLIES YOU OVER YOUR HEIGHT.

THE ONE WITH OTHELLO — DRABBLE

LOKI WAS READING OTHELLO WHEN HE MET HIS SOULMATE.

THE ONE WITH THE GUN — DRABBLE

YOU THOUGHT SOMEONE BROKE INTO YOUR ROOM.

THE ONE WHERE THOR RETALIATED — DRABBLE

LOKI GOT A RETRACTABLE KNIFE AS A GIFT. YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE AFTERMATH OF HIS ACTIONS, AS USUAL.

THE ONE WITH TRYING NEW THINGS — DRABBLE

LOKI TRIES TO ACT LIKE A MIDGARDIAN WHEN YOU NEED TO SHOP FOR A STARK GALA.

THE ONE WITH DEVELOPING POWERS — DRABBLE

YOU’RE FREEZING GLASSES OF WATER. LOKI’S THERE FOR HELP.

THE ONE WITH TRYING NEW THINGS — DRABBLE

LOKI ACCOMPANIES YOU TO PREPARE FOR STARK’S GALA AND TRIES MIDGARDIAN FOOD.

THE ONE WITH THE ASGARDIAN BALL — DRABBLE

YOU’RE PROVING TO ODIN YOU CAN ATTEND A BALL.

KISSES AND CONSTELLATIONS — ONESHOT

YOU AND LOKI ARE CHILDHOOD SWEETHEARTS, NAVIGATING YOUR FIRST DATE. IT’S AWKWARD, UNTIL YOU REALIZE YOU HAD NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT AT ALL.

SHIRTLESS WONDERS — ONESHOT

WHEN YOU GO LOOKING FOR LOKI, YOU FIND THAT IN THE MIDST OF BATTLE HE HAD BEEN INJURED. WHILE TENDING TO HIS WOUNDS, SOME THINGS COME TO LIGHT.

JOYRIDE — ONESHOT

YOU’RE HEADING BACK TO YOUR APARTMENT AFTER A GAME NIGHT AT A FRIEND’S PLACE WHEN YOU ENCOUNTER LOKI FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE HIS INVASION IN 2012.

BUCKY BARNES

THE ONE WITH THE COOKING SHOW — DRABBLE

YOU DIDN’T EXPECT YOUR BOYFRIEND TO GET HEATED OVER A SHOW.

THE ONE WITH THE SNOWBALL FIGHT — DRABBLE

A SNOW DAY WITH THE WINTER SOLDIER

THE ONE WITH THE ORIGINAL COKE — DRABBLE

A 1940′S COKE IS HARD TO FIND NOW-A-DAYS.

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hellzyeahwebwielingessays · 5 years ago

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‘The Absent Father and Spider-Man’s Unfulfilled Potential’: Rebuttal Part 2: Introduction Continued

Master Post

Fettinger continues that in his civilian life Peter’s life was a directionless disaster.

This is again profoundly unfair and untrue.

Peter’s life lacking direction was directly attributable to the life he led as Spider-Man.

And yet Peter managed to leave home, later get a place of his own, graduate collage, got married and was attended grad school on three separate occasions.

He only failed to finish grad school the first time around because he made the smart decision to put things on. He was struggling to juggle the increased workload, his social life and Spider-man activates. He passed the first year through the skin of his teeth and was aware the second year would be worse. At the time he’d gotten into a new relationship with the Black Cat who had been severely injured following a battle, recovering very gradually. Peter was also trying to help pay for her medical expenses. Felicia was also a reforming criminal who’s prior attempt at going straight had failed. In order to keep Felicia on the straight and narrow, in order to help her recover and build a future with her it made a lot of sense for Peter to put his education on hiatus whilst he got his affairs in order.

A quick successions of attacks upon his personal life occurred during his second attempt to complete grad school meaning he naturally dropped out again. These attacks were not his fault. Your best friend trying to kill you, your parents coming back to life, your aunt entering a coma and you having a mental breakdown all BEFORE your clone shows up and your wife gets pregnant are incredibly legitimate reasons to drop out of collage.

Only his third attempt was arguably illegitimate as he dropped out off-panel during the Mackie/Byrne run.

Even this can be defended in-universe on the grounds that his aunt May had recently been revealed to be alive, thus justifying time off. Soon after he landed his dream job. Why bother finishing school when you have the occupation you wanted. Why try to juggle that job, your family and your studies all at the same time if it is unnecessary?

Moreover Peter’s dropping out was simply one of the many, many, many, many, many out of character moments that pervaded that run and the stories intended to lead into it. Fettinger himself would tell you that so they really shouldn’t count.

Not to mention, the series never actually confirmed for us if Peter did or did not drop out. He was attending grad school and then a time skip later he wasn’t. Realistically given how a Graduate School programme can last years he likely hadn’t finished earning his degree, but again that wasn’t confirmed for us.

At the time Fettinger’s essay was published, Peter had also taken on a job as a school teacher, joined the Avengers, had made (successful) efforts to reconcile with his wife, acclimatise his Aunt May to his superhero identity, was making more time for both ladies in his life and was working to try and help rehabilitation of some of the criminals he had captured.

Hardly ‘directionless’.

This is to say nothing of how quite frankly in the mid-2000s MOST people around Peter’s age (25-30) didn’t exactly have a clear cut ‘direction’ in their lives and this was even more true in the consequent decade.

I think this is a criticism equitable to incredibly old-fashioned thinking from older people wagging their fingers at ‘the younger generations’.

Fettinger continues by saying ‘His scientific prowess should have made him a peer of Reed Richards and Tony Stark, men who became prosperous and/or well-respected for their civilian achievements, but he seems to have squandered his potential. These men are not immune from the ravages of human frailty, with alcohol being Tony’s personal demon, and Reed’s neglect of his wife Sue nearly driving her into the Sub-Mariner’s arms more than once, but both have succeeded in balancing superhero careers, satisfying intellectual pursuits, and maintaining some semblance of an organized personal life.”

This was another ‘what the fuck moment’ for me when re-reading this essay.

Honestly, as someone who loves this character this statement made me angry and even made me question if Fettinger ever actually LIKED the character himself.

First of all, have Reed and Tony even succeeded at what Fettinger claims they have?

Tony’s life has often been pretty fucked up. Circa Civil War he and Reed were the pariah’s of the super hero community. Tony’s alcoholism had brought him and his company close to ruin more than once. Reed and Sue had separated in the past more than once and at one point Reed but their son Franklin into a coma. And both men have had their lives made exponentially more difficult by being heroes.

That’s not a ‘semblance’ of an organized personal life. Just because they’ve managed to invent things and be superheroes at the same time isn’t proof to the contrary.

More importantly, even if we accept Fettinger’s claims about Reed and Tony, this is a gigantic false equivalency.

The central reason that Peter has failed to balance his super hero career, intellectual pursuits and an organized personal life is because it is impossible!

Fettinger, despite being this so-called authority on the character is demonstrating a huge misreading of the intent behind Spider-Man’s creation.

He was created specifically to be a more realistic super hero. In that context his superhero life wasn’t allegorical for a real life job or responsibility. Rather the point was to explore how a (relatively) realistic person would believable handle being a hero. This is why Peter initially seeks to use his powers selfishly and needs to learn to use them altruistically.

In other words, Peter has to deal with all the stuff we deal with in normal life in ADDITION to being a superhero.

In real life, your job or family might be the most important thing you do. But for Spider-Man they are inherently secondary.

They are just as important to Peter as they are to anyone in the real world but he also has a huge burden even greater than they are to manage.

This is literally the central conflict behind the character. The constant struggle to juggle real life responsibilities against this grander calling.

You might argue he’s the equivalent of a cop, fire fighter or soldier, but that’s not true. There are similarities rendering those roles appropriate allegories. But that allegory breaks down when you consider he is unpaid for his services, has to maintain secrecy whilst performing them and still needs to earn an income. Imagine doing your job but then also being a cop/fire fighter/soldier who has to be potentially available 24/7 as well.

Reed and Iron Man were never treated with this degree of realism in mind. None of the classic Silver Age Marvel heroes were. Daredevil developed a similar (or arguably greater) degree of realism later under Frank Miller’s pen. And noticeably he too has struggled to find a balance in his life just as Peter has.

Even if we ignore this metatextual argument, the in-universe do not corroborate Fettinger’s point.

I’m no F4 or Iron Man expert so feel free to correct me on anything I get wrong.

But last I checked, circa 2006, Reed and Tony categorically didn’t operate as heroes the way Peter did.

Reed and the other F4 were not crime fighters, and never were. They might deal with crises that arose if they were made aware of them somehow. But they weren’t keeping an eye on organized crime or the drug dealers moving onto the local street corner. They weren’t actively going on regular patrols seeking out petty theft, car jackings, alley way muggings, bank robberies, etc.

IIRC nor was Tony. I think at most he was more concerned with industrial sabotage, the activities of international criminals like the Mandarin, foreign powers like the Soviets or larger scale crises. It wasn’t like he (with or without the Avengers) was responding to every bank robbery in NYC or sticking it to the Maggia or Kingpin.

Spidey though was going out almost every day and night specifically to seek out crime and directly intervene in it. He wanted to avoid anyone else losing their ‘Uncle Ben’ to a burglar because he was passive or complacent.

That didn’t just entail living his life and intervening if he happened to bump into any crime. He was proactive in actually going on the prowl for threats he could help resolve.

Fettinger is also disgustingly unfair because he’s neglected the context surrounding when Reed, Tony and Peter became heroes.

Reed and Tony were ALREADY financially secure and scientifically accomplished men in their late-20s-late-30s when they became heroes.

They’d already figured out effectively methods of playing the game of life, they already mastered scientific skills and had a foundation of accomplishments and money that could make their superhero lives easier if anything.

It’s simply easier to maintain those things as a super hero when you start off that way.

In contrast let’ consider Peter Parker.

He was 15 when he got his powers. He was at most lower-middle class and his family didn’t have much money. Unlike Reed or Tony he had an elderly, health challenged relative to provide care and support for. He was still in school and whilst scientifically gifted didn’t yet have a full education in any scientific field. To get one he’d need to attend college but his household wasn’t able to afford that even before the breadwinner (Ben Parker) died. Therefore Peter didn’t just need to pass high school but earn a scholarship simultaneously. And as for his social life he’d never really had any friends and was thus more poorly practiced at maintaining friendships or romantic relationships than even his fellow school peers. Even if he hadn’t been he didn’t have the same level of experience with such things Reed or Tony would have had due to his age. He wasn’t done growing up yet. Granted Tony wasn’t exactly wise in the ways of serious relationships, but he nevertheless knew how to play the dating game. Reed on the other hand was engaged (or on the cusp of it) when he got his powers.

These were men who had figured out a lot of life, accomplished a lot and grown up long before they began superhero careers.

Peter was starting out with MASSIVE handicaps compared to them.

He needed to simultaneously:

Figure out how to be a grown up

Do that faster than his peers

Care for his sickly aunt

Grieve his uncle

Figure out how to navigate the social scene of people his age, including the ways of romance

Maintain his school grades

Earn a scholarship

Educate himself in various scientific fields

Become the bread winner for his household or else risking them losing their home and May’s access to the medicine that was preserving her life

THEN he needed to be a superhero on top of that!

And what did that even entail anyway?

Figuring out how his powers worked and their limits

Figuring out how to fight

Risking his life against people who regularly wanted to kill him

Dealing with people who went out of their way to target his life, sometimes having that bleed over into his civilian life

Maintaining secrecy as best as he could out of fear of being imprisoned or even killing his aunt due to the shock

Dealing with some people who were actively trying to uncover his identity

For most of his career, never having anyone to mentally relieve his burden by sharing his secret

Figuring out how to seek out crime, track crooks, gather information, the structure of criminal organizations

Fending off deadly and often more powerful opponents

Being hated and feared by most of the general public, authorities and fellow heroes.

Fighting alone most of the time

Created and maintained his own equipment which he did out of his own pocket, despite the hit it took to his finances

Being accused of various false crimes by the press, public or authorities

Helping his boss smear his name because he was the only reliable means of income Peter had

NOBODY could deal with all that. It’s a miracle Peter merely maintained his sanity, never mind successfully kept a roof over his and May’s heads, lowered the crime rate and successfully built a long-term relationship with Mary Jane.

Sure, some of that stuff would get easier over time, but even if other things hadn’t arose to make life harder for him, it’s still an impossible juggling act.

And unlike Tony or Reed Peter rarely had access to much cash, resources or a supportive team to help him. Those things would make all the difference if Reed and Tony were engaged in that time of superhero work.

Reed could rely upon his family to handle a crisis to help out with his latest experiment if necessary, giving him more time to focus upon other things. Tony could delegate duties in his company to staff members whilst he zipped off to save the world or alternatively could turn to his Avengers colleagues to handle a crisis if he needed to attend to important business. And obviously this support network could greatly help if Reed or Tony had any sickly relatives to look after.

With Peter everything was riding on him. Aunt Anna could help out at times, but she wasn’t a full time caregiver. He had no teammates to help bear the burden of fighting crime. Even his partnership with Felicia entailed going on patrol together, not her going out instead of him.

He had no financial security. He lived from one pay cheque to another because he had no choice. Even when he got older and didn’t need to worry about May as much being Spider-Man critically undermined his ability to maintain a 9-5 job. Hence why Tri-Corp (and later HORIZON labs) gave him flexi-hours and why he needed to take so much time off as a teacher and was basically kept around because Midtown High was just that desperate.

It’s one thing to maintain financial security as a super hero when you begin like that. It’s another story entirely when you are clawing your way up the economic ladder from a lower class position whilst being a hero at the same time.

The same thing applies to his scientific pursuits. Where was he supposed to find the time, money and resources to invent anything that’d win him accolades?

Gee if only there was a story which illustrated how being Spider-Man fundamentally held Peter back from fully living his own life…if only that story had then formed the basis for a major motion picture in 2004…

But yeah, if only Peter had a father figure all this would be a none issue.

From a certain POV that’s true, but only in the sense that Peter would’ve had some of the burden lifted from him. He wouldn’t have had to be as concerned about supporting Aunt May. He wouldn’t have had to have spent as much time figuring out how to play the social game if his Dad had maybe been around to show him (although Aunt May was there for that too so would Ben have made much of a difference?).

But it wouldn’t have meant his life would’ve been fixed and his potential unfulfilled. Because being Spider-Man innately held him back no matter what. He was never going to be able to hold a 9-5. He was never going to be able to give his loved ones all the attention he owed them because duty would inevitably call. And unless his father figure was loaded he’d have never had have access to the resources necessary to invent shit. But that wouldn’t have happened regardless of Richard or Ben Parker dying or not. Peter needed a scholarship even before Ben died, so the Parker household was clearly not well off financially.

Let’s also consider that Reed’s home and hero life are functionally one and the same. His scientific pursuits go hand in hand with the work the F4 usually do. This arguably became the case with Tony as well once he discarded his secret identity in the 2000s. Even before then, he had a much easier solution to maintaining his identity considering it would be believable for a rich man like him to have a super powered body guard and his tech would have enabled him to remotely control the armour at times to maintain appearances.

Peter had neither luxury, with his two lives only overlapping in moments of crisis 9/10.

Not to mention Fettinger’s logic here is hurt when we consider neither Tony nor Reed’s Dad’s were all that great in the first place. It seems both of them succeeded in spite of their father’s not because of them.

Basically, father or no father, if Peter had the same circumstances he’d have been in roughly the same position he is now. He wouldn’t have become Reed or Tony.

So confession time.

I began writing this rebuttal at a time when I had no access to Fettinger’ essay sans the physical book it came in. I began writing down bullet points for his consequent points.

And just as a reminder Fettinger’s ‘thesis’ for this essay is that Peter is a screw up with loads of ‘unfulfilled potential’ because he never had a stable father figure in his life following Ben’s death.

· Peter flunked out of college and even failed to graduate with his class because he forgot to take a required gym credit.

Peter didn’t flunk Grad school and he made up his collage degree by earning the SINGLE credit he needed over the consequent summer, which is entirely different to truly flunking.

It’s also got jack to do with not having a father or failing to fulfil his potential. Like around that time Aunt May was in the hospital, had nearly died and he was kinda busy saving people’s lives.

· Two attempts at post graduate education failed.

Actually he tried three times and ‘failed’ is very subjective. See what I said in earlier instalments about the stuff around the early-mid 1990s and the Mackie/Byrne era. Those were the second and third times he tried for a post-grad. The first time he never failed, he simply decided to quit for perfectly practical reasons and return later.

· He made only a marginal living mostly as a freelance photographer because until recently (remember this was written in 2006) when he became a high school teacher, he couldn’t hold a steady job.

Notice how he acknowledges being a high school teacher and yet claims Peter is ‘directionless’.

And more poignantly NO ONE can be Spider-Man and hold a 9-5.

That’s literally the entire reason Lee/Ditko had Peter become a photographer. Because they were trying to tell the story of a realistic super hero and a realistic superhero couldn’t hold down a 9-5 when he might be on duty at any time; even matt Murdock has a partner in Foggy Nelson to cover for him if needed. So they engineered a method for him to earn a living whilst still being Spider-Man, by making being Spidey the means to that end.

· His friendships often failed because he neglected them.

This is not true, his friendships rarely ever failed. When they did it was often not due to his being neglectful. Even on the instances where this could be said to be true again he had a good reason for that. He was SPIDER-MAN!

· Any success with women, including his marriage to Mary Jane Watson (who left at least once) owes more to his partner’s Job-like patience than any effort on his part (and part of MJ’s devotion to Peter may be tied up in her own relationship abandonment and hero worship issues).

It is true MJ has the patience of a saint. But so do the wives of many police officers, fire fighters, soldiers, politicians, political activists etc. And I do not necessarily disagree that MJ’s patience was a huge factor (maybe the biggest) in keeping that relationship going. But Fettinger’s wording here combined with the wider context of his prior points make it abundantly obvious that he isn’t saying Peter put in effort but MJ’s patience happened to be a bigger factor. He is saying that Peter did not put in enough effort, that he slacked off.

Which is bullshit because again, he was being Spider-Man and more importantly with MJ and many of his OTHER relationships he plainly DID put in effort and consideration. Also it’s disingenuous for Fettinger to refer to MJ leaving Peter because he KNOWS that was OOC nonsense and wrote about it. See his 2001 Year in Review from his Spidey Kicks Butt website or this site.

As for MJ’s ‘abandonment issues’ and ‘hero worshipping’ issues, let’s unpack that.

MJ’s issues weren’t about abandonment. Not unless Fettinger is referring to MJ herself abandoning her sister.

MJ was never abandoned as a child. Yes, in ASM #292 MJ claims her Dad walked out on her mother but re-read her origin from ASM 259 or Parallel Lives. It was the other way around.

So MJ literally hasn’t got any abandonment issues in the first place.

Even if you did contort it to being about abandoning her sister that’s not a matter of her ‘issues’. That term refers to the idea MJ has unresolved baggage that, if she only addressed, she’d have not been with Peter or stayed with him.

That interpretation though is BS for two key reasons. Firstly, MJ resisted committing to Peter for the longest time which was also at the root of her leaving her sister high and dry. Her staying with Peter when Gwen died and helping him was an example of her GROWING as a person and becoming BETTER, not her doing it as some kind of weird repentance for her abandoning her sister in her time of need.

Secondly, MJ was only able to fully commit to Peter when she’d laid her demons with her sister to rest in ASM #292. There was still unresolved business between them and her own father but when she settled that she was more comittied to her marriage to Peter not less.

Maybe Fettinger’s intent was that her father’s abuse of her represented a form of abandonment. Or maybe he just phrased himself badly and meant the latter point regardless. Well that too doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.

Parallel Lives shows us MJ’s issues with her father was a motivator for her to steer clear of Peter not grow closer to him.

And more importantly if MJ’s romance with Peter has anything to do with her father it’s only because Peter is so unlike her father. In her mind her father’s traits =bad. Peter, in having the opposite traits = good, and therefore attractive.

By any metric MJ’s desire to be with Peter clearly has nothing to do with any ‘issues’ she had. On the contrary her not being with him was because of her issues. This was incredibly basic and laid out. Fettinger himself touched upon it in this essay.

Now for her hero worship…what hero worship?

Yes MJ respected and was attracted to Peter partially because he was a hero. But that’s not an ‘issue’ because most women would likely have been attracted to such traits. Doctors or firemen are a common turn on for many women and Spidey’s job is analogous to that.

In truth MJ was turned on more by his sense of responsibility embodied by his heroism as discussed in Web #6 (which Fettinger cited in the previously linked to essay). MJ doesn’t want Peter to be a hero out of concern for his health but also recognizes that if he wasn’t a hero he wouldn’t be the man she fell in love with. Stories like Spider-Man the Final Adventure and the MC2 universe though prove how MJ wouldn’t fall out of love with Peter if he quit being Spider-Man.

She doesn’t have hero worship issues!

· If we didn’t know Peter was Spider-Man we would probably consider him either “brilliant but lazy?” (see ‘Spider-Man 2’) or simply a loser.

Right except we DO know he is Spider-Man hence so many of the above criticisms are totally out of line, even ignoring many of the blatant inaccuracies to them.

· He appears to be a chronic underachiever in both identities.

Yeah no. That statement ignores then recent developments in Spidey titles. More importantly it ignores the fact that to ‘fulfil his potential’in either identity he’d have to have access to things (like money and team support) that he simply lacked or else dedicate himself to one life over the other which he cannot do. It isn’t that there is something wrong with HIM it’s that the nature of his SITUATION is rarely conjunctive to success.

· Why is this? What kept him from putting the disparate parts of his life together and becoming an even greater hero?

What further greatness does he really need?

Circa 2006 he’d become an Avenger, the premier heroes of the Marvel universe. He had won a Hell of a lot of battles against seriously powerful foes. He’d saved countless people in his time an lowered the crime rate.

I’m just going to give you the gist of Fettinger’s next several points.

He basically argues that Peter has always subconsciously sought out a father figure to replace Uncle Ben.

Which is TRUE.

But he goes on to argue that the reason for Peter’s unfulfilled potential is BECAUSE he’s lacked this father figure in his life. To be fair to him and give him the benefit of the doubt he does say a positive male role model ‘could’ have made the difference and qualifies that there are plenty of people who do fine without positive male role models.

The problem is that he’s set up this whole essay by being cynically over critical, inaccurate and disingenuous about Peter’s ‘failings’.

Meaning he isn’t clearly asserting that Peter’s lack of a father merely might be the cause for his ‘underachieving’. He is clearly saying Peter is an underachiever and lacking a proper father is the reason why. It’s also disingenuous because Fettinger earlier on in the essay called out Peter as an underachiever by comparing him to womanizing, alcoholic hedonist and weapons manufacturer Tony Stark who you know...had an awful Dad!

· Fettinger lists off the difficulties of growing up in general and how supporting Aunt May and being a superhero made that more difficult. And how it’d be especially hard when doing it on your own. Which is true and a father by his side to help him would’ve made Peter’s life much easier.

But to say that the complications he faced wouldn’t exist if he had a father is asinine.

Aunt May still could have died as she did repeatedly.

There is no assurance that Peter would’ve confided the truth into Uncle Ben or any male role model in his life.

And balancing normal life whilst being a hero is innately impossible even if Peter did have an easier time growing up because there wasn’t as much of a burden on him to support May or figure out how to socialize or be a man on his own.

His life would’ve been easier but her wouldn’t have achieved all Fettinger claimed he’s leaving unfulfilled.

Shit, Mayday Parker never balanced things even though she had it objectively easier than Peter ever did. And her Dad was literally Spider-Man!

· Fettinger writes that without May or MJ Peter would likely have fallen apart.

On this he is on the money.

· He writes that neither May nor MJ can relate to Peter as a genius, a superhuman being, a pursuer of justice nor simply as a man. Neither could substitute for a father figure.

Which is...kinda true....but also kind of not.

Yes MJ and May cannot directly relate to Peter in any of those ways. But, exempting being a male, neither could any given father figure. Other specific father figures (like the ones Fettinger goes on to discuss in the essay) potentially could though so I suppose he was just setting up the rest of his essay.

That being said Peter’s sense of justice didn’t come from nowhere so May could perhaps relate to this on some level. And MJ has shown that she has a certain sense of justice herself.

· Fettinger continues by listing off different potential father figures for Peter and examining the hypothetical end results of if they’d fulfilled their roles as father figures.

I’m going to dedicate an instalment to each one of them starting next time.

So with that I’ll leave it there.

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#spider-man #mjwatsonedit #mary jane watson #Mary Jane Watson Parker #Peter Parker #MJ Watson #Aunt May #May Parker #Ben Parker #Uncle Ben

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