#also it gives exr but we knew that

[ofpd]

poalaf is so good you guys

[mxtxfanatic]

I would also like the mdzs fandom to stop inventing turmoil between Jiang Fengmian and Jiang Yanli just because Jiang Fengmian had a strained relationship with Jiang Cheng. There’s nothing to say that the father-daughter duo had issues, that Jiang Fengmian was neglectful (to either of them, tbh), or that he was indifferent to his daughter's presence. You feeling like Jiang Yanli is disappeared into the background of her family life because she, like her father, doesn't have a lot of scenes is not supported by the canon. While we don’t get a lot of interactions between them (because there is literally no plot or conflict to highlight), what we do get is Jiang Fengmian sticking up for his daughter and terminating a marriage contract that his abusive wife set up, something even Jin Guangshan was afraid to do:

[Jiang Fengmian] told Jin Guangshan, “The engagement was originally made at the insistence of Ah-Li’s mother. I never agreed with it. Given what happened today, it seems both sides aren’t very fond of each other, so it’s best not to force the issue.” Startled, Jin Guangshan hesitated a bit. Regardless of the situation, ending an engagement with a member of another Great Clan was never a good thing. “What do children understand? Let them fight. Fengmian-xiong, we need not take notice.” “Jin-xiong, though we can help them arrange a marriage, we can’t live the marriage for them. In the end, they are the ones who will spend their lives together.” This marriage business wasn’t Jin Guangshan’s idea in the first place either. From the perspective of consolidating power through a marriage alliance, the Yunmeng Jiang Clan would not be his first choice, nor was it the best choice. The engagement had happened only because he was perpetually afraid of opposing his wife. But in any case, since the Jiang Clan had brought it up of their own accord, and Jin Clan was on the male side of the arrangement and thus had fewer things to be concerned about, it was not necessary to remain entangled. Besides, he knew Jin Zixuan wasn’t happy with having Jiang Yanli as his fiancée. After giving it serious consideration, Jin Guangshan found his backbone and he agreed.

—Chapt. 18: Elegance VIII, fanyiyi

We get him hand-making kites with her to decorate for Wei Wuxian, Jiang Cheng, and the rest of the disciples to play with:

Back when Wei Wuxian lived at Lotus Pier, he had played the kite shooting game with the disciples of the Jiang Clan and had placed first many times. ... Jiang Fengmian had constructed the frame himself and Jiang Yanli had drawn the design. Thus, whenever Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng had taken their kites out to compete, they had felt a kind of pride.

—Chapt. 32: Morning Dew V, fanyiyi

We get them having family dinners often enough that Wei Wuxian seems worried that he would miss one right before the Wen show up to Lotus Pier:

Wei WuXian asked, “Uncle Jiang went out so early in the morning —why hasn’t he come back yet? Would he make it in time for dinner?”

—Chapt. 57: Poisons, exr

We get him having no qualms with Jiang Yanli's hobbies such as cooking, even seems eager to partake in her creations—if we assume he hasn't before:

With a smile, Jiang YanLi wiped Wei WuXian’s mouth and chin, and walked happily out with the bowl in her hands. Jiang FengMian sat down where she had been sitting. Glancing at the porcelain jar, he seemed as if he wanted to taste it as well, but the bowl had already been taken away by Jiang YanLi.

—Chapt. 56: Poisons, exr

The reason why Jiang Cheng thinks his father hates him is because he takes any whiff of disapproval from his father to mean hatred, a trait he picked up from and that is nourished by his mother's own insistence that Jiang Fengmian "must" hate her son for being like her:

The founder of the YunmengJiang Sect, Jiang Chi, was born a rogue cultivator. The ways of the sect were honest and unrestrained. Madam Yu’s manners were the exact opposite. And, both Jiang Cheng’s looks and personality took after his mother. He hadn’t ever been to Jiang FengMian’s liking. Since birth, he taught him in many ways, yet he still couldn’t change, which was why Jiang FengMian had always seemed as though he didn’t favor him too much.

—Chapt. 56: Poisons, exr

The founding father of the Jiang Clan of Yunmeng, Jiang Chi, came from a knight-errant background. The family was exuberant, honest, magnanimous, and carefree in its ways —all of which were in complete opposition to Madam Yu’s spirit. Jiang Cheng took after his mother in looks and personality, which had never been to Jiang Fengmian’s liking. He had tried to educate Jiang Cheng in a myriad of ways, but it had all been for naught. This was why it always appeared as though he didn’t favor his son.

—Volume 3, Chapt. 12: Sandu: The Three Poisons, 7seas

Notice how it doesn't say that Jiang Cheng, himself, was never to Jiang Fengmian's liking, but that Madam Yu and her personality type that Jiang Cheng inherited was never to his liking, and it only "seemed/appeared" that Jiang Fengmian did not favor his son because he spent a lot of time trying to correct Jiang Cheng's bad habits, something Jiang Cheng resented. Notice how it also does not say that Jiang Fengmian avoided or ignored his son. In fact, we are told that he tried different ways to teach Jiang Cheng, a futile action we see him still committed to even up to the fall of Lotus Pier. Jiang Fengmian never gave up on his son. Jiang Cheng gave up on himself as Jiang Fengmian's son. None of that has to do with how the Jiang Fengmian and Jiang Yanli interacted in life nor how Jiang Yanli felt about her parents in death, still visiting their tablets regularly to clean and talk to them:

Jiang YanLi was kneeling in the ancestral hall. She cleaned her parents’ memorial tablets as she whispered. Wei WuXian poked his head inside, “Shijie? Talking to Uncle Jiang and Madam Yu again?”

—Chapt. 71: Departure, exr

To say that Jiang Fengmian is a terrible father simply because Jiang Cheng is more comfortable believing his mother’s lies than understanding that unconditional love does not mean unconditional tolerance for poor behavior does Jiang Fengmian’s character a disservice. To say that Jiang Fengmian is a terrible father to Jiang Yanli based on Madam Yu and Jiang Cheng’s own fantasies of victimhood is just an extra unnecessary lie to give credence to an idea that the story proves untrue. At worst, Jiang Fengmian was a man reserved in physical displays of affection that could have stood to hug his son more if that was what Jiang Cheng truly wanted. But if we are being truthful, Jiang Fengmian's just a regular fucking guy juggling raising kids and leading a clan with deterring his abusive wife from turning his home into a battlefield any time she deigns to show her face. Whatever issue you think Jiang Yanli and Jiang Cheng should have with their upbringing, the locus of the problem is named Yu Ziyuan, not Jiang Fengmian.

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

So we know that Wei Wuxian's treatment after his death was horrible. Even if nothing could impact him directly, there was still neverending slander, hatred, misinformation, theft...

But, for a while after he died, the sects did try to impact him directly – namely, frequently trying to resummon his soul. And today I'll explore the possible reasons for this, their likelihoods, and why I'm so, so thankful that Wei Wuxian's soul managed to resist the summons. Because, spoiler alert (or, you know. maybe not)... none of them are good.

(Long meta ahead)

In my opinion, there are four likely motivations for this: confinement, coercion, torment, and potentially destruction.

Out of all of these, confinement is probably the most likely motivation, at least for most sects (Jins and Jiangs excluded, though it was likely what the Jin sect said their motivations were – but I'll get to them later). This one is the most simple – we know spirit-trapping pouches exist, and we know the sects also placed 120 stone beasts on the Burial Mounds to prevent Wei Wuxian's soul from escaping. Therefore, this seems to be the most likely motivation – and fortunately for Wei Wuxian, probably also the best case scenario, though it still certainly isn't a good one.

For the second, coercion – this is where the Jin sect come in (more specifically Jin Guangshan with the help of Jin Guangyao). Due to their wealth and resources, they're likely the sect who played the largest role in the soul-summoning rituals. We know what they're willing to do to try to gain power – keeping Wen Ning under the pretence he was burned to death and trying to control him with the nails, and working with and helping Xue Yang torture people to help him refine his demonic cultivation, in order to have the Yin hufu fixed. Along with working with many other cultivators, alongside Xue Yang – Jin Guangshan really, really wanted that seal.

And so, Jin GuangShan sought after all those who imitated Wei WuXian in cultivating the ghostly path and gathered them under his rule. He spent a great amount of money and resources and these people, ordering them to study and analyze the structure of the Tiger Seal in secrecy so that they could replicate and restore it. - Villainous Friends extra, EXR

(Note that working with these cultivators very likely happened after Wei Wuxian's soul had failed to be summoned, since this happens some time after Wei Wuxian's death, whereas the soul-summoning ceromonies presumably started happening very close to it.)

In the previous paragraph, he's also quoted as having 'lusted after' the Yin hufu, which we already knew but it's nice to have a direct quote as evidence.

Now, would Wei WuXian willingly work with the Jin sect in doing this? No. We know that, and, given Wei Wuxian's actions in his first life (refusing to hand over the Tally, not being afraid to stand up to the sects, etc), I’m pretty sure Jin Guangshan knows that, too:

He beat around the bush a couple of times, using all his skills, yet Wei WuXian didn’t give in no matter what, and it made him run into a bunch of obstacles. - Villainous Friends extra, EXR

So this could actually make things go two ways. One, I'm wrong and that wasn't actually part of the Jin sect's motivations, since they know they wouldn't be able to control him (and in that case, had they managed to summon him, I could imagine them putting him in a spirit-trapping pouch and doing something similar to what Jin Guangyao did to Nie Mingjue's head. Which, also, not good). Two, it was a part of their motivations, and they hoped to find a way around that. After all, there are other guidao users out there now, and Wei Wuxian would now be a gui*. Also, cultivators can obviously harm ghosts – see the very existence of Night Hunts, and I'd include Xue Yang's talisman-caused destruction of A-Qing as well (while he isn't a traditional cultivator, talismans can be used by everyone).

Now, would either of these methods actually work? I'm inclined to think not really (and I expand on the former method in a note below). Would that stop Jin Guangshan/Jin Guangyao/the cultivators they employ from trying? Especially considering Jin Guangshan's lust for power?

I'm inclined to think no, too.

For the third, look no further than Jiang Cheng's reputation of capturing and torturing demonic cultivators after Wei Wuxian's death, due to thinking they could be him. And this does happen – Jin Ling knows and talks about it, and there's not real motivation for him to negatively lie about someone he loves. Also, when they come across each other at Dafan Mountain, we're told this in Jiang Cheng's inner voice:

A moment ago, Jiang Cheng was certain that this person was Wei WuXian, and all of the blood in his body started to boil. Yet, now, Zidian was clearly telling him that he wasn’t. Zidian definitely wouldn’t deceive him or make a mistake, so he quickly calmed himself and thought, this doesn’t mean anything. I should first find an excuse to take him back and use every possible method to get information out of him. It’s impossible for him to not confess anything or give himself away. I’ve done things like this in the past anyways. - MDZS Chapter 10, EXR translation

This mainly shows that he's tortured people before, rather than that he's tortured people because he thinks they're Wei Wuxian, but this reason is confirmed by Jin Ling in Chapter 24. Of course, the reason is also mentioned in this chapter, and there are other moments in the chapter that illustrate my point better**, but they come from second-hand sources which I know are easier to deny. Do take note of Jiang Cheng's expression both times he comes across 'Mo Xuanyu' (after he suspects he's Wei Wuxian) in Book One***, though:

After a moment, the corners of Jiang Cheng’s lips pulled into a twisted smile. His left hand started to unconsciously stroke the ring [Zidian] again. He spoke softly, “… Well, well. So you’re back?” - Chapter 10, EXR Although his face had always been clouded, marked with arrogance and satire, it seemed as if every corner of it had come alive. It was difficult to determine whether it was vengeful wrath, fathomless hatred, or raving ecstasy. - Chapter 23, EXR

This does seem to line up with what people say his attitude to Wei Wuxian is – there doesn't seem to be any happiness at seeing him again at all. The only time a word that could suggest that ('ecstasy') is used, it's accompanied by 'raving', and considering the context and the other possibilities of his expression, it's... probably not due to happiness at being reunited.

So, considering 1) this, 2) his contribution to the Siege specifically intended to kill Wei Wuxian, and 3) that at the time of frequent soul-summoning Jiang Yanli's death would be even closer for him, I feel pretty confident in saying that yes, this is likely a motivation for the Jiang sect in trying to re-summon Wei Wuxian's soul after his death. And, as mentioned earlier, cultivators can harm ghosts (and we know Zidian is able to remove souls posessing a body from that body, and that Jiang Cheng used Zidian on 'Mo Xuanyu' in Chapter 10. If it wasn't able to restrain/harm ghosts, or other methods weren't able to, why would he risk Wei Wuxian's soul escaping?).

And finally, option four: destruction. We're heading into much more speculative territory here, so don't consider this on par with the first three. But consider this:

We know there are some spells, like Xue Yang's talisman used on A-Qing and the body-offering ritual, that can ruin the returning soul’s reincarnation cycle by destroying it. Therefore, soul destruction is possible.

The 'main'/supposed reason for summoning Wei Wuxian's soul back is to stop the "cultivation world, or even all of mortal land" from being "faced with the most insane damnation and revenge, sinking into nothing but chaos and despair" when Wei Wuxian inevitably returns. While, as mentioned above, I severely doubt this is the motivation for certain sects – and to me is likely a rumour which the Jins (again, especially Jin Guangsha) fanned the flames of to justify summoning Wei Wuxian back for their own purposes**** – there are other sects which would take it more seriously.

Although likely disrespectful, people already thought it served Wei Wuxian right to die without his body intact by the time of the second siege – something believed to negatively affect your reincarnation in your next life*****. This is only the logical next step, and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people would believe that, again, it would serve Wei Wuxian right, or would at least lead to less harm of the world in the long run.

For these reasons, I could definitely see this as an option for some sects, especially the sects who consider themselves more 'righteous' (cough cough the Nies under Nie Mingjue cough cough). After all, evil is evil and good is good, and the evil deserve what's coming to them. And what better way to prevent that than from preventing his soul from returning at all? So for the Nie sect – and likely some of the smaller sects involved in the Siege, since among them, additudes probably vary – yes, I do think it could be a motivation.

I’m not as sure about the Lans being willing to go this far, and that’s largely for two reasons. One, Lan Wangji’s presence and his relationship to Lan Xichen, who does (not always, but he does) let this affect how he treats Wei Wuxian. An example of this is that, when Wei Wuxian's return is made public, Lan Xichen does let him hide and shelter at the Cloud Recesses instead of trying to pursue him, likely majorly due to Lan Wangji. I'd argue that the aftermath of the Nightless City also acts as an example of this, although it definitely isn't perfect. But though he, Lan Qiren and the 33 elders do come to find Lan Wangji and do not let him continue to shelter Wei Wuxian (after they see Lan Wangji's feelings), Lan Xichen doesn't use this opportunity to kill/capture Wei Wuxian, despite Lan Wangji being in a worse condition due to having fought 33 elders, Wei Wuxian being catatonic, and Lan Qiren likely supporting this outcome (especially considering he was the one who led the Lan sect in the Siege – chapter 68, Wei Wuxian's POV). And he did let Lan Wangji take Wei Wuxian back to the Burial Mounds after:

After he went out of his way to send you back to Burial Mound and returned in such low spirits to receive his punishment, how long he kneeled before the Wall of Rules! - Chapter 99, EXR

Again, this was right after the Nightless City massacre – there isn't any goodwill towards Wei Wuxian at this point in time.

Of course, the Lan sect did participate in the siege after Lan Xichen knew of Lan Wangji's feelings towards Wei Wuxian, which Lan Xichen was no doubt a part of (although Lan Qiren lead the Lan sect in the siege, Lan XIchen had to have at least known/given his support, if not participated.) And it should be considered that Lan Xichen letting Wei Wuxian shelter at the Cloud Recesses was after Wei Wuxian had been back for a while, and had not caused the downfall of the Cultivation World, like many suspected he would after his death. And of course, as stated previously, his handling of the aftermath of Nightless City wasn't perfect either (though please note that his main motive here was to protect Lan Wangji from being potentially executed, rather than anything about Wei Wuxian himself). So caring about Lan Wangji doesn't mean he won't harm Wei Wuxian. But I do think he could find bringing Wei Wuxian's soul back to completely destroy it a bit excessive. There is, though, the chance that the elders of the Lan Sect would react to this differently, and of course they would have a sway on both Lan Xichen and the Lan sect as well.

The second reason is smaller, but there seems to be more focus in the Lan sect than in others when it comes to letting ghosts rest peacefully/helping them move on. And that could definitely lead to more resistance to the idea of summoning a soul back to destroy it as well, which could especially impact the elders. So I'd assume that the Lan sect would be the most likely sect to summon Wei Wuxian's soul back just for confinement, or just for some way of making sure any resentment is disippated, his spirit moves on, and he can't cause more harm to the world (eg via Inquiry)******. Not that he would or does as a ghost or as a reborn person, but that's unfortunately not relevant to this.

But yes, as a motivation for the Nie Mingjue-led Nie sect? Absolutely.

So, these are the main motives I suspect to be behind the attempted summoning of Wei Wuxian's soul after his death (and if I've missed any, please let me know – I'd love to have a discussion). And, of course, none of them lead to anywhere good. Because of course it wasn’t enough to besiege Wei Wuxian, murder the 50 non-combatants he was responsible for (and throwing them into the blood pit as a mark of disrespect because why not?), and lead to his death via him getting torn apart. It wasn’t enough to steal all his inventions, and use them commonly while still slandering him with no reprieve – or to steal his notes and give them to people like Xue Yang to study (Villainous Friends, again) and to use for their own, extremely extremely harmful, purposes. Of course, the cultivation world has to try to harm Wei Wuxian after death as well ((:

We don't know whether Wei Wuxian rejecting the summoning ceremonies was conscious or unconscious, but if it was the former, these are very likely reasons he refused to return in this way. If it was unconscious – for example, maybe during the frequent soul-summons his soul was in a weakened state due to him dying from a backlash of resentful energy and getting torn apart, and it healed over time but not before the soul-summoning rituals stopped – well, I can only be thankful.

Finally, let me leave you on the thought that – although it may well have happened since we don't spend much time in the immediate aftermath of the Sunshot campaign – there isn't even any textual mention of this happening to Wen Ruohan. Who, while not being a guidao user, was still very dangerous, still an extremely powerful cultivator, and still had a lot of reason to feel resentment. So.

:')

Thank you for reading!

--

*Considering what we see of how Wei Wuxian's guidao functions – redirecting the ghosts'/corpses' resentment into doing something they'd want to do, eg attacking people, and directing it towards a target – I'm not sure using it to force a spirit to do something 1) extremely specific, and 2) explicitly against their will would actually work. Iirc the closest thing we get to this in text is Wei Wuxian using the corpses of Wens to attack other Wens in the Sunshot Campaign, but he's still just directing their resentment to a target of his choice, and fierce corpses do tend to be on the less concious side of things (hence why Wei Wuxian had to awaken Wen Ning's consciousness). Considering how Wen Ning attacks Wei Wuxian and the Burial Mound Wens before his consciousness had fully awoken, I... really don't think those fierce corpses were able to differentiate (or didn't care).

Meanwhile, ghosts seem to be a bit more in control of themselves – see A-Qing, and Wei Wuxian's own descriptions of his ghost self.

That, alongside ghost!Wei Wuxian being able to resist his soul-summoning and the fact that pretty much all of the new guidao users are a lot weaker than he was, does make me think that this this wouldn't work. I do wonder about Xue Yang, since his methods are pretty different as well, but he's more of a modao user than a guidao user (he controls living corpses rather than dead people) and I don't think you can insert physical nails into ghosts?? Though if he was specifically instructed to figure out some way to control ghost!Wei Wuxian (who's probably kept in a spirit-trapping pouch in this scenario), he might be able to do something at least. Though also he was also struggling to piece Xiao Xingchen's ghost soul back together, so he may struggle with those areas?

Well, whatever the potential outcome, I'm so so happy once again that Wei Wuxian's soul managed to resist the soul-summonings...

**Mainly this:

Everyone in the cultivation world knew that the young leader of the Jiang Clan watched out for Wei WuXian in an almost crazed manner. He would rather catch the wrong person than let go of any possibility, and took anyone who seemed like they held the soul of Wei WuXian away to the YunmengJiang Sect, inflicting severe torture on his victim. If he wanted to take someone back, the opposition would surely lose half of their life. - Chapter 10, EXR

But I have heard people say 'you can't prove that it's just more rumours' before, and I wanted my evidence to be as watertight as possible.

(And, off-topic... isn't it really sad how Jiang Cheng, in the present day, is described as young? Because, for a clan leader, he is. And another thing he is, is close in age to Wei Wuxian – who was killed 13 whole years prior :') )

***And do note that the only other time they run into each other before Wei Wuxian's identity is revealed to the world apart from this is their brief interaction at Jinlintai, where he can't just act however he wants. The next time they run into each other after it, Jiang Cheng is literally taking part in another siege against him, and still extremely hostile ("surrounded by hostile energy, face insidious, staring straight at him" – from EXR chapter 60). Then he loses his spiritual powers and can't do anything. By the time he regains his powers, Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji and the Wen remnants' corpses have saved everyone during the Second Siege, and though public opinion hasn't properly shifted quite yet, it will soon after Sisi and Bicao tell the story of Jin Guangyao, and voila, a new scapegoat (do note that he doesn't completely bar Wei Wuxian from entering Lotus Pier after the Second Siege, though). Plus, throughout it all, Lan Wangji is still constantly present, which makes it hard for Jiang Cheng to really do anything. And then he's finally faced with the Golden Core reveal, which does alter his motivations towards Wei Wuxian (obviously the resentment is still there – read chapter 102 – but it's also mixed with other complex emotions, and he seems to start being able to move away from that a little in Chapter 103). I still definitely wouldn't describe Jiang Cheng's attitude towards him as positive, but it isn't at the point it was at the start of the novel (eg Chapter 10).

But even if his attitude does change, or would for whatever other reason apart from the reveal, that still doesn't change an initial motivation so isn't relevant to this meta. We know his intentions at the start.

****It's also possible they may have originated it, but I think WWX's reputation was bad enough for it to form naturally. Though you can trace a major part of that back to them, too.

*****That belief isn't outright stated in MDZS, but the fact people are specifically talking about the status of WWX's body in the aftermath of his death suggests that this belief does have some grounding in the MDZS universe, at least? And we know MXTX has included it in TGCF (though that doesn't mean it's definitely in MDZS), so she has used it in her works. If this isn't the case in the MDZS universe I am sorry (although that could also mean there's less importance placed on not disturbing the reincarnation cycle in the world of MDZS...? Which would work towards my original argument) – I don't want to spread misinformation that something is definitely true, I just think there's evidence to suggest it is true, which isn't the same thing.

******Again, I think this would depend on who ends up having more influence over who in the Lan sect. After all, normal resentful spirits only do what they do because of their resentment in death, whereas Wei Wuxian is 'dangerous' because of who everyone thinks he was in life – so him being reborn naturally could also 'cause a lot of harm to the world' during the time period this version of him would live in, unlike the resentful ghosts they appease. This could definitely lead to many advocating for confinement, I think.

[ninjakk]

The song within WWX's heart

Hearing LWJ softly singing Wangxian for the first time, back when they were trapped in the Xuanwu of Slaughter's cave, left a profound impression on WWX. Even if he was slipping in and out of consciousness at the time, it still affected him deeply. On a subconscious level, this melody means so much to WWX and the way MXTX weaves this delicately throughout the plot is just perfection.

The first time we see WWX play Wangxian he is using a hastily improvised bamboo flute, while on Dafan Mountain. This is prior to WWX or indeed the reader (on a first read) being aware of its name or the significance it holds.

To stifle it, Wei WuXian calmed his feelings and assuredly played another melody. The melody had drifted over his mind naturally. It was relaxed and tranquil, contrasting with the bizarre and ear-piercing one from before

Chapter 10 ExR translations

WWX calms his emotions and tires to relax. Trying to think of something happy, something soothing, that will quell WNs killing intent. Which is when this tune naturally comes to his mind. Hearing the song instantly pacifies WN and he begins to follow WWX.

Just prior to this, WWXs emotions were incredibly high and very raw. Only a few days ago, he was forcefully resurrected into a stranger's body. He's had an altercation with JC and inadvertently upset his beloved late shijie's son. Then he bumps into the man he's been subconsciously pining for since they were teenagers. With his mind stirring up painful memories from his past life, it's so poignant that this is the song that resurfaces in his subconscious. As something that makes him feel safe and secure.

After the above, it's not* until the Xuanwu of Slaughter cave arc that we are finally unofficially introduced to Wangxian. In this chapter LWJ showcases his beautiful singing voice to a very drowsy WWX, who is slipping in and out of consciousness. We later find out that this is the aptly named Wangxian, a love song that LWJ has composed especially for WWX.

It had originally been an offhand remark. He was chatting with Lan WangJi to pass the time and didn’t at all expect him to agree. Yet, after a few moments of silence, a low yet mild voice echoed softly through the hollow cave. Lan WangJi really did begin to sing. Wei WuXian closed his eyes, turned around, and spread out his limbs, “It sounds nice.” He asked, “What’s it called?” Lan WangJi seemed to murmur something. Wei WuXian opened his eyes, “What was it called again?”

Chapter 55

MXTX doesn't give us much in terms of a description of the melody at this point, probably in an attempt to keep most of the readers guessing a little longer with regards to how LWJ knew it was WWX back on Dafan Mountain. But we can see WWX appreciates the tune and seems quite content with everything at that very moment. Over the past few days, since beating the legendary beast, WWX has been running a fever. LWJ has been diligently looking after him, passing him spiritual energy and keeping a fire lit in order to keep him warm - which WWX obviously appreciates. There is also a very sweet moment where he questions if LWJ had been allowing him to lie on his lap while he was drowsy. It's a very tender scene and marks a definite turning point in their relationship - especially on LWJ's behalf.

The next time we see WWX play Wangxian, is back in his second life - where he's very much starting to accept his feelings for LWJ. The feelings he's had since they were young are flooding to the surface and he's blissfully content just being around the other. They are on their way to the very place he died years ago, but he's so drunk on the way he is feeling about LWJ, he doesn't care at all. He feels incredibly safe and happy with him - which is when he inadvertently plays their love song once more.

He even had the spirit to enjoy the fields under the moonlight, pulling out the bamboo flute at his waist. As natural as ever, he played a tune. The flute had a limpid timbre. Lan WangJi’s footsteps hesitated slightly as Wei WuXian felt something inside of him suddenly light up.

Chapter 66

Just prior to the above scene, WWX is feeling loved, cared for and so happy his heart won't stop fluttering! He's remembering his parents, the love they had for each other and for him. All of these lovely images filling his head and beautiful feelings flooding his heart. Just as he is so happy and content, a melody comes drifting in his mind and he plays it on the flute under the moonlight once again.

It comes so naturally to him, because this is how he felt when he heard it originally. He felt happy, even though he was stuck in a cave and suffering from a fever - which is quite telling about how he must feel at LP at times! He felt cared for. He felt quite content rolling around on someone's LWJ's lap, while his head was tenderly stroked. He was lulled back to an unconscious state, hearing LWJ sing this melody to him as he felt all of these sweet emotions. He felt these so strongly, that the tune imprinted on his heart, and in turn his memory for all these years. A song can be a powerful thing, especially when associated with strong emotions.

WWX finally remembers where he has heard the tune before and is absolutely ecstatic to learn that LWJ not only composed the melody, but he is the only one to have heard it.

To me, there is definitely a strong chance that WWX also plays Wangxian during the Phoenix Mountain arc. This is probably more apparent on a re-read, once you are more familiar with the description of Wangxian later in the novel.

He held up Chenqing and blew into it, fingers shifting. The clear sound of the flute rushed into the sky as though it was a bird, lingering as it echoed through the mountain.

Chapter 69

WWX has just been flirting with LWJ, throwing flowers at him and trying to attract his attention. So it's safe to assume LWJ is on his mind, even if he is currently participating in a competition. Taking up a comfy spot on a low hanging branch of a tree, he basks in the sunlight feeling relaxed and comfortable. He is about to calm the fierce corpses and ghosts, summoning them to surrender in the Jiang sect's name. As such, he plays a soothing song on Chenqing that is clear, melodious and soared like birds in the sky. To me, at least on a re-read, it is quite obvious WWX is playing Wangxian here. As we are given more descriptions of the tune later in the novel, it all pieces together quite nicely.

WWX playing Wangxian at this moment in time also adds to why LWJ simply lost control and kissed him not long after he played on his flute. WWX had inadvertently played their love song! The very song LWJ had composed just for him! Not to mention the teasing and flirting WWX subject him to earlier on as well. Of course I'm not condoning LWJ's actions, but considering his character, it's no wonder he lost control and forcibly kissed WWX after all of this. Especially if he heard the almost teasing tune of his love song being played on a flute in the distance.

The last time we see Wangxian being played is of course at the end of the novel, when we finally learn what the melody is called.

Swaying left and right atop the donkey, Wei WuXian took the flute from his waist and placed it by his lips. The limpid notes flew across the sky like birds. Lan WangJi halted and listened quietly. It was the song he sang for Wei WuXian when they were stuck in the Xuanwu cave. It was also the song that Wei WuXian just so happened to have played at Dafan Mountain, the song that enabled Lan WangJi to confirm his identity.

Chapter 113

We can see the melody is described as limpid (or clear) in tone and the song evokes images of birds flying in the sky. This description is very similar to the quotes referenced above, which I think is very much intentional. If WWX did play Wangxian to calm the entities down on Phoenix Mountain, as he did with WN at the beginning of the novel, how sweet is it that he uses this song to soothe the poor souls that are in turmoil and full of resentment.

I think there is quite a lot of subtext hinting that WWX playing Wangxian at the beginning of the novel is far from a happy accident. That it is in fact something he has done since hearing the tune all those years ago. It even states in the novel, he plays the tune "as natural as ever", which could be interpreted as he's played this tune many, many times in the past - during both of his lives.

*Honourable mention:

Another scene that could possibly include WWX playing Wangxian once again, is during the chapter when we first meet DrunkJi.

Stopping at a desolated area, Wei WuXian took out his flute by his waist, placed it by his lips, and played a melody. After this, he waited silently.

Chapter 30

Obviously we don't have enough of a description here to tell if WWX just played Wangxian to summon WN. But it would add to the reason why an inebriated LWJ reacts in such a jealous way towards WN when he appears on the scene. Especially as he seems particularly annoyed at WWX playing his flute for WN. Granted, it might just be because he drunkenly stumbled upon WWX and WN together when he woke up from his intoxicated catnap. With LWJ still feeling the sting from WWX unwittingly playing their exclusive love song to another man back on Dafan Mountain. Awkward...

But it could also be LWJ being roused from his drunken slumber to the tantalising sound of a flute playing their song.

I totally headcanon WWX humming the melody throughout his first life. Soothing an upset A-Yuan with this lovely tune. Harvesting radishes while he sings to himself quietly. Tinkering with his inventions in the cave, while whistling the melody and hearing it reverberate all around him. The Wen remnants and the crazy Yiling Laozu cultists camping out at the base of the mountain with their little banner, would even swear they could hear a calming song softly echo around the burial mounds in the middle of the night at times.

There's just no way he didn't hum or play Wangxian after her heard it drifting in and out of consciousness. Especially as he can remember it so clearly in his second life, whenever he's really happy or needs to calm down.

In fact, I really wouldn't be surprised if LWJ hummed Wangxian to WWX while passing him spiritual energy when they were hiding in a cave after escaping Nightless City.

It also makes me wonder if WWX used this melody to calm the entities in the Burial Mounds back when he was trapped there. Every time we have seen WWX use a tune to calm corpses, it's (possibly) been this tune. It's not too much of a jump to assume he used it in the Burial Mounds to suppress the resentful energy at the time. It was probably very much fresh in his memory still at this point - only a month or so since he first heard the tune.

How beautiful would it be if the song that LWJ composed out of love for WWX is what essentially helped calm the resentful entities and save his soulmate's life while he was trapped in a literal hell on earth.

[motivationisdead]

I feel like Chapter 64 tackles a lot about Lan Xichen’s character and views, and I think it is fairly centered on him, and so I just wanted to talk about that really quickly.

*looks at how much I’ve written*… Or maybe not so quickly.

And I know this might come off as a… fairly negative look at Lan Xichen’s character, whoops. It’s… not really meant to be? Personally I actually feel rather neutral about his character. But I do recognize this is perhaps not the most positive view on Lan Xichen so if that bothers you you might not want to continue reading. Lan Xichen is an interesting character though and I simply wanted to try exploring that a little more with what we’re shown in this chapter.

:readmore:

“… I have always believed, without a doubt, that the criticism he received from others all came from misunderstandings, that what I knew how he truly is. Now, you want me to believe, at once, that everything about this person is fake, that he planned to kill one of his sworn brothers, that I was also a part of his plan and even helped him… Could you please allow me some more discretion before I make my own judgement?”

I have always felt that the relationship between Jin Guangyao and Lan Xichen is a complicated topic to tackle. Because I don’t believe it’s wrong to believe in someone you trust, it’s just that Lan Xichen’s trust was misplaced and Jin Guangyao abused that trust and manipulated Lan Xichen. Jin Guangyao is definitely the one who’s at fault here, I won’t ever be arguing against that. And neither am I trying to say Lan Xichen is responsible for any of Jin Guangyao’s actions.

That all being said I can’t say Lan Xichen is… entirely blameless either even if I do think he is the victim in this situation. Because even though Lan Xichen is very much not responsible for Jin Guangyao’s actions he is responsible for his own. Or rather, the lack of them. And I do give Lan Xichen some props for being willing to consider that Jin Guangyao might actually be guilty after all this time now that he has the evidence of it in front of his face. But it does also feel like too little too late.

And it’s interesting that Lan Xichen even says himself that he believed all the criticism Jin Guangyao received was due to misunderstandings. Without a doubt, even.

And while I’m sure some of that is a combination of Jin Guangyao acting like an angel around Lan Xichen and the cultivation world (as they tend to do) circulating false rumors to start drama about Jin Guangyao the fact that Lan Xichen dismissed every single criticism, some of which were likely coming from Nie Mingjue his, you know, other sworn brother, without even trying to look any deeper does strike me as him enabling Jin Guangyao to some degree.

It kind of reminds of this scene:

Without any exaggeration, he told Lan XiChen of how Meng Yao killed and planned to blame someone else, then feigned death and ran away. After he heard the story, Lan XiChen was also surprised, “How could this be? Maybe there was a misunderstanding?”

Nie MingJue, “I caught him right on the spot. What misunderstandings could there be?”

Lan XiChen thought for a moment, “Judging from his words, the person whom he killed had definitely done wrong. However, he should not have taken his life either. We are in harsh times, so it is quite difficult to determine who was at fault. I wonder where he is now.”

- Chapter 48 of the EXR Translation

Here we even have him excusing Jin Guangyao’s actions to some degree by first saying that maybe it was a misunderstanding and then saying they can’t determine who was at fault in that situation because they both were in the wrong. I’m not even entirely sure how much Lan Xichen believes what Nie Mingjue said.

Still, Lan Xichen knew Jin Guangyao had been involved in questionable circumstances before and yet in the future he’s shown to be unwilling to even entertain that similar such situations might implicate Jin Guangyao or be true. That definitely strikes me as willful ignorance if nothing else.

Lan XiChen had taught Jin GuangYao the Song of Clarity, keeping in mind the grudge between Jin GuangYao and Nie MingJue, hoping that they could be how they used to be. He requested Jin GuangYao to help calm Nie MingJue in place of him. Who would’ve known that his kindness made possible Jin GuangYao’s cruelty? How should he face himself now?

- Back to Chapter 64 of the EXR Translation

Whether Lan Xichen was aware of it or not by deliberately keeping with his ignorance, and not investigating any further, and simply preferring to fully trust in Jun Guangyao his inaction is what harmed others.

And Lan Xichen despite knowing about the fractured relationship between Nie Mingjue and Jin Guangyao (with Nie Mingjue even trying to kill Jin Guangyao at one point, though the novel kind of plays it off as comedic) believes that they can somehow still overcome their differences. He even purposefully places Nie Mingjue in a situation where he’d have be vulnerable with and trust Jin Guangyao.

And even ignoring Nie Mingjue’s eventual death that’s… not a healthy way to try and build a relationship between two people when Nie Mingjue already felt his trust in Jin Guangyao was betrayed, regardless of the fact that Cleansing in itself was harmless. In fact I’d say putting Nie Mingjue in a situation where he was consistently forced to rely on Jin Guangyao while their relationship was still so turmoiled—and while one or both of them were unwilling to try and rebuild it—was likely to damage their relationship even further in the long run.

Like, I have to wonder at least a little bit at Lan Xichen’s logic and reasoning behind this. It’s coming to such a point that in Lan Xichen’s kindness and efforts to have them reconcile he becomes a toxic person to be around even if he only has good intentions in mind.

And then we have this scene where Lan Xichen talks about QingHeng-Jun and Madam Lan’s story. And notably I think this is also him trying to reach out and connect with Wei Wuxian. And at first he says:

Lan XiChen explained, “When my father heard of this, of course he was in much pain. But, no matter how he struggled, he still took the woman to his sect in secrecy. Ignoring the objections from his clan, he knelt with her for the Heavens and the Earth without making a sound and told everyone in the clan that she would be his wife for the rest of his life, that whoever wanted to harm her would have to pass through him first.”

And:

“It could be said that my father did this without a care for anything else. …”

Here he seems to be placing the blame of these circumstances (or at least the marriage and the seclusion that follows) on his father but later he also says:

“My uncle… has always had a frank personality to begin with. Because of how my mother caused my father to destroy his own life, he began to hate those who behaved improperly even more. …”

Which seems to be placing the blame on his mother for being the catalyst in his father’s choices, and maybe for going along with it. And while clearly he is saying this in reference to Lan Qiren’s perspective of the situation it does seem to mirror what Lan Xichen later says in Guanyin Temple about Wei Wuxian being Lan Wangji’s only mistake, which is interesting.

And then we’re also given this description of Lan Xichen’s and Lan Wangji’s childhood:

They were two young children, who faced everyday only their harsh uncle, strict teachings, and mountains of books. No matter how tired, they had to straighten their soft backs to be the most outstanding disciples of the clan, the model students in others’ eyes. They could rarely see their closest relatives. They couldn’t fool around in their father’s arms, they couldn’t act spoiled in front of their mother.

But they had clearly done nothing wrong.

Essentially Lan Xichen (and Lan Wangji) were never allowed the opportunity to just… be kids and make mistakes. They had to be perfect. And the way this is written makes this kind of treatment out to be punishment even though they themselves have done nothing wrong. And I think the pressure of that explains a lot about how they turned out and perhaps why their personal failures (Wei Wuxian’s death for Lan Wangji; and the truth about Jin Guangyao for Lan Xichen) happen on such a big level and impact them so much when before they weren’t allowed to fail even in small ways.

These are, arguably, some of the only mistakes they’ve made (or feel they’ve made) in their lives and the impact of them on the Twin Jades is immense.

He [Wei Wuxian] spoke, “Madam Lan must’ve been a very gentle woman.”

Lan XiChen, “In my memories, Mother had indeed been so. I do not know why she did such a thing back then. And, in truth, I…”

He took in a deep breath before confessing, “Do not want to know either.”

And here, I think, perfectly outlines Lan Xichen’s greatest character flaw and mistake when dealing with Jin Guangyao.

Lan Xichen remembers his mother as kind and in an effort to keep that view prefers to live in ignorance of the full story less that image of her be ruined in some way or make her out to be someone Lan Xichen doesn’t know.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence Lan Xichen says this in the wake of learning that what he knows, or thought he knew, about Jin Guangyao might be a lie. He doesn’t want this kind image he has of Jin Guangyao to be wrong and so he’s reluctant to dig any deeper.

And I do think that’s why Jin Guangyao was able to abuse Lan Xichen’s kindness so much for so long.

[admirableadmiranda]

Less of a rant and more of a quibble, there’s so much information dumped into Nie Mingjue’s flashback that it’s easy to miss things here and there.

I had a couple thoughts on Nie Mingjue’s motivations on joining 3Zun and how really this was a brotherhood destined to fail.

Recently I’ve seen several takes suggesting that he was manipulated into joining up with Lan Xichen and Jin Guangyao because they wanted to get to get a third sect leader on their side and raise up Jin Guangyao, or pressured by Lan Xichen to forgive the unforgivable. Which... there is some of the latter in there; Lan Xichen has a very strong blindspot for Jin Guangyao and tends to believe his first impression is correct and not re-examine it until he has to do that. I’m not here to talk about Lan Xichen though, there’s more than enough of that going around.

The first take is incorrect. Nie Mingjue not only knew exactly what he was doing, but he was not some innocent pressured into joining and giving up his morals by a devious tag team of wily manipulators. He got into it to do exactly what people accuse Lan Xichen of doing. Pressuring people to do exactly what he wants. It’s not even subtle or hidden. It’s baldly stated in the text.

“Wei WuXian had once found it strange as well. Ever since Meng Yao betrayed the QingheNie Sect, the relationship between Nie MingJue and him hadn’t been the same as before. Then why did they later become sworn brothers? From his observations, aside from how Lan XiChen brought it up, having always hoped that the two would reconcile, the most important factor was probably the gratitude of saving his life and writing the letters. To be precise, in his past battles, he had more-or-less depended on the information that Meng Yao sent over through Lan XiChen. He still thought that Jin GuangYao was a talented person whom one would rarely come upon, and intended on leading him back onto the right path. However, Jin GuangYao wasn’t his subordinate anymore. Only after they became sworn brothers would he have the status and the position to urge Jin GuangYao, like how he disciplined his younger brother, Nie HuaiSang.“

Chapter 49: Guile, ExR translation.

There we have it. Nie Mingjue joins 3Zun of his own free will to pressure Jin Guangyao into doing what he wants and acting on what he sees as the right path. Which as he told Jin Guangyao before involves killing himself.

And before people get into defending him, remember that he thinks the right path is executing everyone who is a Wen, but also being in your face and aggressive. He is not an arbiter of justice who remains fair, he is a blatant hypocrite who enjoys having the power to pressure people into acting black and white. There is a reason why the Jin sect keeps manipulating the Lan through banquets and Jin Guangyao’s schmoozing and donating to help them rebuild Cloud Recesses, yet does nothing about Nie Mingjue till he starts insisting they assassinate Xue Yang. He’s already an ally of theirs in all the ways that matter.

Not a single sect leader in the past is innocent. That includes Nie Mingjue. So keep that in mind when examining 3Zun. He’s in it for his own agenda from the beginning.

[no--envies]

In my opinion, one of the reasons JC went crazy after WWX’s death and started venting his own anger and hatred on every demonic cultivator he met, regardless if they were guilty or innocent, is that he couldn’t stand the fact that he hadn’t managed to deal the killing blow to WWX. After all his effort in leading the siege and using the information he had on the Burial Mounds to plan the action and convince everyone else to follow him, he wasn’t even the one who actually killed WWX. WWX died because one of his cultivation techniques backfired and he was torn to pieces by his own ghost army.

I think JC couldn’t accept this. After everything he had done - and thinking he was justified in hating WWX for all the perceived wrongdoings he believed he was a victim of - WWX had managed to surpass him once again. Nobody was able to kill him, not even him.

We know JC’s reaction in the aftermath of the siege because JGY and XY directly comment on it in the extra focused on them:

Xue Yang, “What about his flute? Can you get me Chenqing?”

Jin GuangYao shrugged, “Not Chenqing. Jiang WanYin took it.”

Xue Yang, “Doesn’t he hate Wei WuXian the most? Why would he need Chenqing? Didn’t you also get that sword of Wei WuXian’s? Give him the sword in exchange for the flute. It’s long since Wei WuXian stopped using his sword, while Suibian sealed itself and nobody can pull it out. What’s the use of keeping a fucking piece of decoration?”

Jin GuangYao, “You really ask me to do the impossible, Young Master Xue. Do you think I haven’t tried? How could anything be that simple. That Jiang WanYin has already gone mad. He still thinks Wei WuXian hasn’t died. If Wei WuXian returned, he might not search for his sword, but he’d definitely come for Chenqing. And so, he would definitely not give up Chenqing. A few more words of mine, and he might blow up.”

Xue Yang sniggered, “A mad dog.”

(Chapter 118, ExR translation)

Whatever JC had tried to achieve by leading the siege, he wasn’t able to achieve it. If the only thing he had wanted was to punish WWX for his deeds, he would have been satisfied with his own role in WWX’s death. I don’t think killing WWX was the only thing he wanted, though. He was probably trying to prove something, to himself and everyone else. He wanted to prove that he could surpass WWX for once, and that WWX had been wrong all along in choosing to put himself at risk to help others instead of listening to him. He wanted WWX to admit it was all his fault.

After a while of silence, Jiang Cheng asked, “You’ll stay like this from now on? Got any plans?”

Wei WuXian, “Not at the moment. None of the group dares go down the mountain. People don’t dare do anything anything to me when I go down the mountain either. It’ll be fine as long as I don’t stir up trouble on my own.”

“On your own?” Jiang Cheng sneered, “Wei WuXian, do you believe that even if you don’t stir up trouble on your own, trouble won’t come and find you? It’s often impossible to save someone, but there are more than thousands of ways to harm someone.”

Wei WuXian replied as he ate, “A man with strength can defeat ten with skill. I don’t care if they have thousands of ways. I’ll kill whoever comes.”

Jiang Cheng spoke in a cool voice, “You never listen to any of my opinions. One day, you’ll come to understand that I’m the one who’s right.”

(Chapter 75, ExR translation)

JC had always tried to convince WWX to abandon his path. Since he couldn’t outshine WWX in any way, he wanted to at least prove he was right in the path he had chosen, that choosing to help others at the expense of oneself ultimately wasn’t worth it. But WWX wasn’t swayed in the least. He kept walking resolutely on his single-plank bridge in the dark, regardless of what anyone else thought.

WWX was aware of JC’s mentality: he knew JC wouldn’t willingly put his own reputation at risk to help him protect Wens if he could avoid it. This was one of the main things that divided them since they were teenagers: their values and outlooks were simply too different, it was only a matter of time before their choices made them take completely diverging paths. WWX was fine anyway, he could take care of himself - this mindset could be seen as too overconfident, but he wasn’t completely wrong. He knew he could protect the Wen remnants even without relying on anyone else, since he managed to do it for two years before everything crumbled at Qiongqi Path.

In the end, Jin Zixun ambushed WWX accusing him of something he hadn’t done, and everything spiraled down so quickly he couldn’t do anything to prevent it, until he lost control of his demonic cultivation and killed Jin Zixuan. The sects’ suspicion towards him turned into open hostility and everyone was immediately ready to consider him an actual threat to them all. After the bloodbath of Nightless City, WWX was labeled as the scourge of the cultivation world, an enemy that should be eliminated to guarantee everyone’s peace and safety.

At first glance, one could think JC was right and WWX was wrong. But if this was really what the novel is trying to tell us, why was JC unable to move on for thirteen years, while WWX was immediately ready to start a new life and leave everything in the past after he was brought back? Even when JC managed to capture WWX and confronted him, WWX didn’t have anything to say to him.

The cup was steaming. Before he had taken a single sip, Jiang Cheng suddenly hurled it at the floor. He lifted the corner of his lip slightly and spoke. “You—you don’t have anything to say to me?”

[...]

“I don’t know what to say to you,” Wei Wuxian replied sincerely.

“So you refuse to repent,” Jiang Cheng said in a low voice.

In their past conversations, they had frequently tried to sarcastically undermine each other. Wei Wuxian thus replied without thinking, “Similarly, you haven’t improved a single ounce either.”

Jiang Cheng’s answering smile was brimming with fury. “Fine. Then let’s see which of us truly hasn’t shown an ounce of improvement.”

(Chapter 24, Fanyiyi translation)

I think this exchange is very interesting: WWX and JC are no longer bickering or teasing each other as they so frequently did in the past. What had once been a complicated relationship with genuine affection beneath it all, now retained only the semblance of it. There’s no more warmth, no more anything worth trying to repair. While JC is still adamant about using WWX as a scapegoat to avoid reflecting on his own mistakes, WWX has long since moved on. He doesn’t even feel resentment towards JC, he just wants to live his new life freely.

JC is an interesting foil for WWX, their interactions show how fundamentally incompatible they are and both of their character arcs highlight one of the main themes of the novel: the importance of letting go of all the grudges and negative feelings and remembering the good things, since only then one can truly be free. This is something WWX knows perfectly well:

Wei WuXian propped his arm on Lil’ Apple’s head, spinning Chenqing in his hand, “My mom said you have to remember the things others do for you, not the things you do for others. Only when people don’t hold so much in their hearts would they finally feel free.”

This was one of the only things he remembered about his parents.

(Chapter 113, ExR translation)

[fincalinde]

☕ You can construct a reading where LXC did in fact know about MXY

The subject of LXC and MXY is an obsession of mine, so this is a full on Answer. And, hilariously enough considering the source of this ask ... this post is a joint effort with @xiyao-feels, the unrivalled master of exhaustive citations. Hopefully it is a reasonably thorough look at reconciling the inconsistencies of the LXC and MXY situation.

My position is that it's completely implausible that LXC does not know who MXY is prior to the return of WWX, and the assertions in the novel to the contrary are inconsistent with other information we are given and should not be taken at face value. In trying to form a consistent read from the contradictions in the text, the interpretation that LXC did not know who MXY was must necessarily give way.

The text informs us of two key points regarding MXY:

1. He was kicked out of the Jin sect for harassing JGY and this is common knowledge amongst the Jin because a large number of them shun WWX-as-MXY on sight at the conference (Ch 47, EXR)

2. LXC did not even know who MXY was, let alone what he had done (Ch 47, Ch 109, EXR)

These two points don't sit comfortably together. The first is undisputed whether you believe MXY did harass JGY or not; the point is that literally every other character believes this to have occurred and it is widely if not universally known. For the record I do think the most reasonable interpretation is that MXY 'harassed' JGY, and you can read this post by xiyao-feels for a good explanation as to why, but the truth of the matter is irrelevant here.

The second point, however, is easily disputed. LXC spends weeks at a time at Golden Carp Tower in close company with JGY, and even if JGY had tried to hide MXY from him he would surely be aware of the subsequent gossip. It's frankly inconceivable he hadn't at least heard that JGY has a 'lunatic' half-brother who harassed him (or even just 'someone') and was kicked out of the sect, when 'more than half' (Ch 47, EXR) of the Lanling Jin disciples recognise him on sight years later and are aware of the circumstances of his disgrace.

We do get a couple of assertions that the existence of MXY and the embarrassment of his behaviour and expulsion from the sect was something the Jin tried to keep quiet, e.g. SMS saying 'The people who aren’t from the LanlingJin Sect might not have heard of who he is' (Ch 50, EXR), but it's clear that these attempts have not been successful. Even a random bystander at Dafan is aware of MXY and the outline of his circumstances and history:

"Ahem, he used to be a foreign disciple of the Jin Sect. But, because his spiritual powers were low and he didn’t work hard in his studies, and also had that… He harassed a peer and was thrown out of the LanlingJin Sect." (Ch 10, EXR)

This character is identified as a 'meddlesome bystander' and a second unnamed character also contributes the information that MXY is a 'cut-sleeve', so there is certainly general awareness in the area of MXY and his background. Granted this is not far from Mo Manor and MXY is a local figure so more distant locations might not be aware of the gossip, but the point is that those who are or have been in general proximity to MXY have at least heard rumours.

Vitally, the assertion that LXC was not aware MXY existed is made by WWX, whose awareness of the facts is limited. The assertion is made twice, both times by WWX in dialogue and not via the narration. Here are the points at which WWX claims that LXC did not recognise MXY and didn't even know he existed:

Lan WangJi didn’t say anything. He simply turned around and walked alongside him. Wei WuXian continued, “Neither you nor ZeWu-Jun knew about this. You didn’t even know who Mo XuanYu was." (Ch 47, EXR)

[NHS:] "It’s not that strange I hadn’t seen him, is it? Brother XiChen might not have even seen him.”

Wei WuXian, “Oh, indeed. ZeWu-Jun didn’t know Mo XuanYu either.” (Ch 109, EXR)

Again, both of these are delivered via WWX's dialogue. In Ch 47 LXC is not involved and cannot contradict WWX even if he wanted to. In Ch 109 he is present but in a state of grief and shock. He only speaks in relation to trying to get an answer from NHS regarding what he saw; in relation to JGY and what happened leading up to the events of the temple; and in response to LQR in Ch 110 when he explicitly says '"Right now, I really wish to say nothing"'. He does not even say anything in response to WWX voicing that the coffin likely contained the body of JGY's mother. It's certainly a reasonable reading that he chooses not to speak up about the seemingly minor point regarding MXY in the moment.

WWX's assumption that LXC doesn't recognise MXY is plausible in light of the fact that LXC doesn't respond to him in Ch 11 as if he is someone he recognises on sight; especially not someone he knows has harassed JGY. It's entirely likely LXC never met MXY, especially since he does ask LWJ who this is. However, it doesn't necessarily follow that LXC has no idea MXY exists or no idea of MXY's history. I personally would go so far as to say that LXC has too much grace to react dramatically to the sight of MXY even if he did recognise him either immediately or on introduction, especially since there's even a note that he doesn't react to 'MXY's' strange behaviour and is taking the entire situation in stride. But I'll acknowledge that's subjective and is the less supported reading.

In order to reconcile the contradictions and come up with a consistent read we must rely on the subjectivity of WWX's observations and conclusions, not least because WWX's conclusions don't hold up. Even he realises that himself—and now we come to the matter of NHS.

NHS as quoted above says it makes sense he didn't know MXY existed as even LXC 'might' not have known. The trouble is, we and WWX know this is a lie. NHS did know MXY, and knew the details of MXY's background and expulsion from the sect and was able to use that information to his advantage. When we know NHS is lying, we cannot trust anything he says about what LXC does and doesn't know. Yes NHS is looking for any dirt he can find on JGY, but it's key he uses the qualifier 'might' regarding LXC because that way even if LXC says 'actually I was aware' then plausible deniability remains. None of this is conclusive in either direction except to give me a chance to highlight this quote too:

"You, on the other hand, also frequented Sect Leader Jin to air your grievances. Even if you weren't familiar with Mo XuanYu, have you really never seen him even once?" (Ch 109, EXR)

This reasoning catches NHS in his lie, and if this reasoning applies to NHS it applies doubly so to LXC, who again, spends weeks at a time at Golden Carp Tower. WWX fails to make this connection and by this stage the point is no longer narratively relevant, but it reinforces that WWX's reasoning around LXC and MXY is faulty. The idea that JGS, JGY and the Jin hushed things up so well that even LXC had no clue MXY even existed is an impressive and implausible level of conspiracy over a number of years. It stretches credulity to the limit that MXY was apparently integrated enough into the sect that even strangers and literal children remember him and are aware of the harassment (Ch 10, Ch 47, EXR), yet somehow LXC not only didn't get a glimpse of him but had also never heard of him.

I don't think MXTX intended this level of scrutiny to be applied to the assertion that LXC didn't even know MXY existed, but I'm applying that scrutiny nevertheless. While I do think the most plausible read is that LXC had never previously met MXY, the idea that he had no idea MXY existed is implausible and fundamentally inconsistent. MXY's existence and general history are known by a number of characters who could only be reasonably expected to be aware of him if that information is, if not widely known, then certainly not confined solely to the Jin. We know how much time LXC spends at Golden Carp Tower and how deeply involved he and JGY are in each other's lives; if meddlesome bystanders in Dafan and children like Jin Chan know who MXY is then it is unconvincing that LXC is completely unaware of his existence. A reading where LXC is aware of MXY's existence and has potentially met him or at least been in his vicinity is both supported and reconciles these inconsistencies within the text.

The LXC-MXY issue is hardly a major plot hole in the grand scheme of things, but reconciling contradictions like these is an important aspect of crafting fanfiction when attempting to write rigorously* canon compliant fic. So, if anyone had ever wondered why I'm so meticulous about detail and yet have LXC being aware of the existence of MXY in the weakness of falling in love, this is your answer.

—

*'Rigorous' does not mean 'error-free' and I have in the past and will continue in the future to make mistakes at times; but the point is that it's important to me to make a sincere effort.

[grewlikefancyflowers]

Do you think Làns and Nies knew that Wen remnants in BM were civilians and also that Wens were tortured in the prison camps? Could LXC have saved the Wens if he looked into what WY said at the banquet about WN being used as a bait and found out for himself the truth the fact that they were innocent and not criminals who WY took away to Burial Mounds to make his sect(or was it building an army? I don’t remember)?

Both the Lans and the Nies were presented with pretty conflicting information regarding the situation with the Burial Mounds settlement. I do think the Nies and Lans fully believed (justified or not) that they were a genuine threat - they did not join the siege against on BM knowing that they were innocents.

As for the prison camp, I think everyone, including WWX was fully aware that the prisoners weren't exactly being treated well. Considering the setting, that is sort of how we expect prisoners to be treated, their fate was the consequences they faced after the war. This is not presented as a conflict in MDZS. So I think whether the Lans and Nies were aware or not the extent to which the all the Wen remnants suffered in the encampment is... sort of besides the point? The issue is that WN & his family should not have been there in the first place, regardless of how poorly they were treated.

Theoretically, if LXC had looked into the situation, he could have been able to use his influence to assure the rest of the cultivation world of their innocence, provided he managed to find some sort of evidence. The issue comes with how exactly he would go about doing that. WWX claimed at the banquet that they were innocent and wrongly imprisoned, JC alludes to this too, but under further questioning does not elaborate and instead supports the belief that WWX was wrong to act how he did. Where does LXC go from here? Does he even have a sufficient reason to believe WWX had good reason to save these particular Wens, when his sect leader isn't even supporting him? The next piece of knowledge the Lans and the Nies receive about WWX is the fight with JC and the 'he's declared himself an enemy' speech, giving them even less reason to believe WWX.

If LXC did investigate further, how would he find proof? The testimony of WWX and the Wens is already considered unreliable at this point. Despite WQ already having a reputation for not having killed anyone, and actually being a good person, that was not enough to give anyone reason to doubt.

Then there's the rumours that WWX was starting his own sect, which progressed into that he was building an army. There are two moments that I can recall that would give the outside world reason to believe this

'In less than three days, almost all of the cultivators learned a terrifying piece of news: Wei WuXian, the one who defected from the Jiang Sect and made his own home in Yiling, had created the the highest level of fierce corpse yet. It was incomparably fast, strong, fearless, and vicious. On top of that, its consciousness was preserved, able to win every night-hunt!' (Ch.75, exr)

^I think this one is relevant to LXC specifically. WN awoke at the same time as LWJ's visit. It's guesswork at this point but I think we can be fairly certain that LWJ would have assured, to the Lan sect at least, that the settlement on BM were just farming, WWX was not building a sect or forming an army. I also think it is likely that he might neglect to mention Wen Ning, because no matter how he framed it, that wouldn't look good. But rumours of Wen Ning quickly spread regardless. If we're putting ourselves in LXC's position, it probably comes across to him that LWJ is not a reliable witness to WWX, if LWJ were to assure him that there was nothing nefarious going on in BM yet days later LXC hears WWX has made a completely new type of conscious fierce corpse. I think this sets the foundation for LXC later disregarding whatever testimony LWJ provided that WWX and the Wens were not a threat.

The second thing that would give some degree of actual evidence to the rumours is this.

'One time, when Wei WuXian saw a long banner that said ‘all hail the supreme Lord of Evil Patriarch of YiLing’, a mouthful of fruit wine shot from his lips. He really couldn’t take it any longer. He went down the mountain, accepted with pleasure all of the tributes with which they ‘honored his most wise sage’, and began to use another mountain path from then on.' (Ch.75, exr)

...It's very easy to see how this would quickly grow out of hand once spread to the outside world.

So... no, even if he took the initiative to do so, I don't think LXC could have realistically done anything to save the Wens, the only way he could have done that would be to find some irrefutable proof, which he would not be able to.

[kjack89]

there are so many good ones on that list but UHHHHH... 24 or 31? (or 36. or 37 👀)

Every now and then I like to take a prompt that is clearly intended to be angsty and instead make it...not so.

This is one of those times.

ExR, Modern AU, established relationship. Brief misunderstandings, healthy(ish) communication, and lots o’ fluff.

31. “I can’t keep kissing strangers and pretending that they’re you.”

“Are you shitting me?” 

Grantaire stared down at the brightly colored flyer in apparent disgust, and Bossuet bent over to pry it from him. “What could possibly…” he started, trailing off as he saw what had caught Grantaire’s ire. “Ah. I’ll take it he didn’t, uh, clear it with you first?”

“It’s not about clearing it with me,” Grantaire snapped, snatching the flyer back. “I’m not his keeper. But I would think it would get at least a cursory mention.”

“What’s going on?” Joly asked from across the table, using Bossuet’s preoccupation to snag a bite of hashbrowns from his plate. Grantaire just thrust the flyer at Joly, who took it from him, raising both eyebrows as he read out loud, “‘Pucker Up for Change – A Kissing Booth to Fight to Legitimize Sex Work’?” He glanced up at Grantaire, who was scowling. “But what does this…”

It was his turn to trail off as he spotted the name listed among the other participants at the bottom of the flyer: Enjolras. Joly switched his glance to Bossuet. “What do you think?” he murmured out of the corner of his mouth. “Do you think Courfeyrac blackmailed him into it?”

“Either that or Combeferre’s getting revenge for something,” Bossuet muttered back.

Grantaire cleared his throat. “I don’t think the why really matters,” he said, his tone clipped. “When the more important thing is that my boyfriend is participating in a kissing booth and, y’know, neglected to tell me about it.”

“I’m sure it just slipped his mind,” Bossuet said bracingly. “You know that Enjolras has been so focused on the cash bail reform bill that’s in the House at the moment that he probably completely forgot he even agreed to participate.”

“Or,” Joly added, in what he clearly thought was a helpful way, “maybe Courfeyrac signed him up as a joke, and Enjolras doesn’t even know about it!”

“Or, maybe Enjolras forgot that he had a boyfriend who wouldn’t be super thrilled about him macking on a bunch of randos for ten bucks a pop,” Grantaire said sourly.

Joly and Bossuet both stared at him for a moment before Bossuet bit his lip, and Joly elbowed him. “Not the time,” he hissed, and Bossuet shook his head rapidly, clearly trying to stop himself from laughing.

Grantaire sighed. “What?”

“Just…’macking’?” Bossuet repeated with a snigger.

The corners of Joly’s mouth twitched. “I thought you were going to point out the use of the word ‘randos’,” he said, the pitch of his voice rising as he tried not to giggle.

Grantaire sighed again. “You two are the worst friends,” he grumbled, picking up his phone and texting Enjolras the four most ominous words in the English language: We need to talk.

----------

They didn’t talk.

Enjolras texted Grantaire back that he was in and out of meetings between the community bond fund and various state legislators, and asked if it could wait until that night. Considering that the damned kissing booth was scheduled for that afternoon, that didn’t exactly give Grantaire any opportunity to bring up the fact that Enjolras was planning on spending his afternoon locking lips with random passersby.

He texted Jehan. Pretty fucked up that passersby is the plural of passerby, and not passerbys.

I’ll take it you’re freaking out about the kissing booth thing? Jehan responded not even a minute later.

Grantaire didn’t bother asking Jehan how he knew about the kissing booth, or how he knew that Grantaire was upset about it – he had learned a long time ago not to question Jehan’s borderline omniscient ways. Don’t you think he should’ve at least told me about it??

I think that you’re interpreting the fact that he didn’t as evidence that he doesn’t care about you, Jehan replied. Which is crap. Enjolras loves you. 

Loves me enough to make out with strangers without telling me about it?

Jehan’s response took longer this time. I highly doubt there will be any making out. And have you considered that the reason he didn’t tell you is precisely because he didn’t want you to feel this way?

The thought had occurred to Grantaire, who scowled down at his phone. Doesn’t change the fact that he should’ve told me, he texted stubbornly.

Maybe not. But maybe you should give him a chance to explain tonight.

Grantaire’s scowl deepened and he shoved his phone back in his pocket. He figured he could be magnanimous enough to allow Enjolras a chance to explain.

But he sure as hell wasn’t going to wait for that night.

----------

“Next,” called the bored-looking guy who was managing the short line waiting for the kissing booth, and Grantaire took a deep breath and stepped forward. “Boy, girl, or nonbinary?”

“Sorry?” Grantaire said, blinking at him in confusion.

“Would you prefer to kiss a boy, a girl, or a nonbinary person?” the guy clarified.

Grantaire knew he should be impressed that something as asinine as a kissing booth was inclusive, but he couldn’t quite bring himself to be. “Boy,” he said, and the guy gestured for him to head over to the right side of the booth.

Taking a deep breath, Grantaire squared his shoulders and stalked over, plunking a ten dollar bill down in front of where Enjolras was sitting. “I believe this is the going rate,” he said stiffly.

The look on Enjolras’s face was everything that Grantaire had hoped it would be, a mix of horror, regret, and a particularly Enjolras-like defiance. “I suppose I owe you an explanation,” Enjolras started, but Grantaire held up a hand.

“First things first,” he said. “I paid, so I should get what I’m owed.” Enjolras rolled his eyes but nonetheless leaned in obliging and gave Grantaire a swift peck on the lips. “Not sure that was ten dollars worth…” Grantaire said, before continuing, “Now, about that explanation—”

It was Enjolras’s turn to hold up a finger, and he leaned back in his seat to talk to someone on the other side of the booth. “Hey, I’m tapping out for the moment.” Whatever response he got was apparently enough, as he stood, reaching out automatically for Grantaire’s hand.

For a brief moment, Grantaire thought about yanking his hand away, but even as ticked off as he was, he couldn’t do that.

Instead, he let Enjolras take his hand, lacing their fingers together as they walked away from the kissing booth . Enjolras glanced over at Grantaire and opened his mouth to say something, but Grantaire shook his head. “Not here,” he said tersely.

Instead, they headed to a nearby Starbucks, though Enjolras made a face when he realized where they were going. “Starbucks, really?” he asked.

“You spent an afternoon kissing people who are not me,” Grantaire said. “The least you can do is buy me an overpriced coffee.”

Enjolras didn’t argue any further, and they both got their coffees and made their way over to stand against the bar, their shoulders brushing against each other as they drank their coffee in silence.

“So,” Grantaire started eventually, and Enjolras sighed, draining his coffee.

“So I gather you’re upset,” he hedged, and Grantaire looked flatly at him.

“No shit, Sherlock.”

A small smile crossed Enjolras’s face. “Am I at least allowed to make my defense?”

Grantaire arched an eyebrow. “If you think there’s anything you can say in your defense that will make even a remote bit of difference.”

“How about this: I agreed to the kissing booth before you and I started officially dating,” Enjolras said calmly. “And you know that I honor my commitments.”

“Just not the commitment you made to me.”

It was unfair of Grantaire to say, and he knew it, but Enjolras just sighed and shook his head. “I’m not going to pretend that I owe you every part of my life,” he said. “And I’m not going to pretend that I didn’t decide that asking forgiveness was easier than asking permission.”

Grantaire frowned. “You don’t need my permission,” he said.

Enjolras arched an eyebrow. “Isn’t that what this is about?”

“No, this is about you deciding that it was easier for us to not at least have a conversation about it,” Grantaire said evenly. “I know damn well that you don’t need my permission for anything, and vice-versa. But you still should’ve at least given me a head’s up about it so that I wasn’t completely blindsided.”

For a moment, Enjolras looked like he wanted to argue, but instead he ducked his head and nodded. “You’re right.”

Grantaire blinked. “I’m sorry?”

“I said, you’re right,” Enjolras repeated, a little louder.

Grantaire smirked at him. “Oh I heard you, I just wanted to make you say it again.”

Enjolras rolled his eyes. “Hilarious,” he said dryly.

“Yeah, but my superb wit is one of the things you love about me,” Grantaire said, still grinning.

“You are unfortunately correct,” Enjolras said with a light laugh, pulling Grantaire in and kissing him. “So does that mean that I’m forgiven?”

Grantaire’s eyes narrowed. “That depends. You got any other makeout sessions for charity planned?”

Enjolras rolled his eyes. “There was no making out,” he said, a little impatiently. “It was just kissing.”

“Tomato, to-mah-to,” Grantaire muttered under his breath. 

“And it wasn’t technically for charity. It was in protest of how things like kissing booths are completely normalized and accepted, but sex work is marginalized and—” Grantaire yawned exaggeratedly and Enjolras rolled his eyes again, but it was with obvious affection. “It wouldn’t kill you to pretend to care.”

Grantaire arched an eyebrow. “Pot, meet kettle.”

Enjolras’s expression softened. “I do care,” he said. “And I’m sorry for making you doubt it.”

Grantaire softened as well, not at all surprisingly. He knew he wasn’t going to be able to stay mad at Enjolras for long. “Well, for that at least, I am more than willing to forgive you.”

“And for the rest?”

But that also didn’t mean that Grantaire was completely willing to just roll over. “Answer my previous question.”

“No, I have absolutely no future plans for any kind of kissing booth or anything like that,” Enjolras said firmly. “Besides, I don’t know if I could bring myself to do it again.”

Grantaire cocked his head slightly. “What do you mean?”

“I mean, I can’t keep kissing strangers and pretending that they’re you.”

The breath seemed to catch in Grantaire’s throat, and a slow grin spread across his face. “Good answer,” he managed, before tugging Enjolras to him and kissing him.

When they broke apart, both men were grinning. “That’ll be ten dollars,” Enjolras said, a little breathlessly.

“Shut up,” Grantaire said, laughing.

“So am I definitely forgiven now?” Enjolras asked.

Grantaire just kissed him again, curling his fist in Enjolras’s shirt, knowing full well that the kiss would say far more than words ever could, and content in the knowledge that from here on out, the only person that would be kissing Enjolras was him.

And he wouldn’t even have to pay $10 to do so.

[arizona-trash-bag]

I can totally explain a bit of my thinking behind seeing lwj as autistic and wwx as autistic/adhd!! Before I get into specifics though, let me preface with where I’m coming from. I first saw CQL and then read the EXR translation of the novel. I prefer MDZS to CQL, but also want to acknowledge that because I do not read/speak Mandarin I am inherently experiencing this story second-hand and therefore am probably missing out on a lot of nuances. I am trying to learn Mandarin, but it will be a long time before I am even a little close to fluent lol.

Another preface- obviously not all autistic people present in the same way, and many of the things that I will mention are not solely specific to autistic people either. It’s one of those things where all of it added up together points towards asd, but each one individually would not on its own indicate asd, you know? Also, I will say that many of the things I picked up on for both characters are autistic traits that many autistic people have vs the clinical characteristics (much like most of the case I could make for wwx’s adhd would be adhd traits he has rather than symptoms that would lead to a real-world diagnosis.) Edit: OH! I almost forgot to say, that also all of these traits I’m listing are from a western perspective, and I would LOVE to read more about how autism presents in different cultures and to see conversations between autistc Chinese people specifically, so as to see if these traits are specific to western autistic people or not, but again, I do not speak Mandarin or Cantonese or any other Chinese dialect, so that’s a little inaccessible for me atm.

Ok, SO, for both characters I would list: strong sense of justice, lack of care for society’s opinion (I feel like it could be argued that lwj does to a certain point, but imo he operates more from what he morally considers to be correct and from a place of familial duty vs catering to the opinion of society at large), and then more vaguely, they both seem to be “nerdy” (this doesnt feel like the most accurate term, especially because it's not like being scholarly is specific to their characters, especially in ancient fantasy China- it’s more that their particular hmmm, flavor?? of love of knowledge feels very neurodivergent to me, vs like, being scholarly because it’s the thing that is expected of a Young Master, if that makes any sense at all- like the difference btwn someone getting an engineering degree because it is expected of them vs because they genuinely love engineering), and lastly for both- I would say that they are canonically kinky, and while I can’t cite any statistics, there’s a pretty high correlation between being autistic and being into kink. Obviously, not every person who is not vanilla is autistic, and not every autistic person is into kink…….but there is a high correlation.

For lwj specifically, the things that made me think he might be autistic are his lack of outward emoting combined with his depth and breadth of emotions, how he seems to thrive in and quite enjoy the very structured environment he grew up in, and then the last one off the top of my head (side note, I feel like a week from now I’m going to randomly think of other examples lol) I’m not actually sure IS an example, because I know (thanks to the awesome post from hunxi that you linked to that I had read previously) that his succintness does not equal autism, but I do kind of feel like it is very autistic to Always be so formal and to Always talk in textbook perfect language.

For wwx, I also think he likely has CPTSD! I’m not going to list anything for adhd or cptsd since we both agree on those :) As far as being autistic goes, there is, of course, the high prevalence of adhd/asd comorbidity. For specifc traits- while autism can show up as lack of facial expressions/tone, it can also show up as being overly exuberant and overexpressive. Especially for younger autistic children this can show up as being overly friendly/no boundaries w/ strangers (just?? going home with a random man who says he knew wwx’s parents???), making unusual connections that others do not can be both asd and adhd, his disregard for social status (disregard might be a strong word, and also I feel like this might be one of those things that got lost in translation and if I had read the original text I might have a different opinon, but what I mean here is the way that often autistic people learn certain social rules and try their best to follow them, but often do not pick up on specifics related to social hierarchy that are not spelled out for them- I think jyl’s take down of jin zixun is a great example of the /oppossite/ of what I’m talking about, and is a very neurotypical interaction. An example also of what I mean by disregard for social hierarchy, but from my own life, is how I’ve reflected on past convos w/ my boss only to realize that what I thought was just an interesting conversation about our opinons on a particular subject was actually them trying to tell-me-as-my-boss something they wanted me to do. We ended up doing things the way I wanted to do them because I didn’t realize that they were telling me to do something because they didnt explicitly say so, and because I just don’t pick up on when people are saying something from a social hierarchy pov. Idk if this makes sense or not, so I’m happy to try to expand if you would like me to. I feel like wwx could be described as having alexithymia, which is very common in autistic people, but could also be due to his cptsd. And then, I don’t feel like this is a true point because it is kind of based on headcanon? but wwx feels very demisexual to me, which is much more common for autistic people than it is for allistic people. But him being demi is not canon, just my perception of him (I see him as demisexual gay w/ massive comphet, but I know lots of people see him as bi, which also totally makes sense!!)

Tbh, I’m having a harder time than I thought I would listing wwx specifics. I might go through the book sometime this weekend and see if there are specific moments that pop out at me, but tbh w/ him its more that he Feels very adhd/asd to me?? Idk, I was diagnosed w/ adhd when I was 8, and all 4 of my siblings plus my father have offical adhd diagnoses. I’m 29 now and was only diagnosed as autistic earlier this year.  All of my close friends have always been either adhd, asd, or adhd/asd. There have been multiple people I have met that I’ve suspected were neurodivergent who have later told me they started looking into it and are now seeking formal diagnoses. I mention these things, only to give full context when I say that I have spent a lot of time observing the differences between interacting with neurotypicals and neurodivergents. I mean, obviously, it’s possible that I could just be projecting, but to me, Wwx gives off late-diagnosed/heavy masker autism/adhd combo vibes. Again, maybe I am projecting, but I did try to analyze whether I was or not previously, and determined that since in the past with other favorite characters (who I probably share more similarities in personality with) I did not feel like they were neurodivergent, so I figured that probably I wasn’t? That feels like a very convoluted sentence, but what I mean is that I have not thought that about other characters who have been my fav, so I figured that while I do project in certain areas that this particular area probably wasn’t one of them. Or, to say it in yet another way, since i did not project any of my neurodivergencies on past favorite characters, I figured I probably didn’t start doing so now.

I would love to hear more of your perspective on this, particularly because I worry that I do not have the cultural touchstones to realize when something wwx or lwj is doing is not actually a sign of being neurodivergent. I try my best to research things I don’t know about and to listen to fans who actually do have that cultural understanding, but there’s only so much I can look into on my own when I only speak/read english. And also, I love mdzs and I love talking about both adhd and autism, so I’m glad to talk about these subjects with someone else who also likes all of those topics :) Sorry for sending a book of a response and also I hope you are having a great day!!

wow wow wow anon THANK YOU for doing your research and acknowledging your blind spots you seriously made my day. I wanted to get to this as soon as I made that rant while sharing cyan’s post bc this is specifically an example of a well researched proposition based on actual lived experience and critical thinking.

I almost want to ask you to come forward so we can take this convo elsewhere for a more nuanced discussion bc you’ve already hit upon an issue that’s been holding me back from making a big blathering masterpost on the matter - that the ND experience is so unique and individual, and no one person can dictate someone else’s experience. at the end of the day, if you personally relate to these characters and gain more understanding of yourself and your experiences from them, who am I to take that away from you?

in a public space though I have to make the discussion very broad in order to accurately contextualize these issues, bc in typical autistic fashion I feel morally compelled to Do My Best and Get It Right even as the masses show no inclination of returning the favor, so apologies for the boring backstories I have to get out of the way before we can approach anything resembling new ground.

first from a diagnostic standpoint, while I recognize the traits you listed (and appreciate your clearly nuanced understanding of ND expressions) and would find value in exploring them in a personal context, they are not unique to adhd and/or autism and wouldn’t constitute a basis for diagnosis in a clinical setting. I know that's probably beside the point for this anon, but there's enough edgy teens hoarding labels out there without tacit encouragement from scientists (yes I am technically a scientist, even though my ideologies these days range from conventional to... wildly esoteric, shall we say)

from a cultural standpoint, it’s important for me to emphasize that the concept of neurodivergence is a uniquely western notion. for those unfamiliar, the term 'neurodiversity' was only coined in 1998. I was born in 1991. I existed for a whole 7 years as an autistic person before the idea of being neurodivergent was even a thing. this ND acceptance thing is very, very new - people were not making tiktok confessionals about their adhd diagnosis journeys when I was growing up.

china, like most asian countries, is about 20 years or more behind on just about every social issue compared with western countries. to better illustrate, the experience of being ND in china falls much closer to the conventional experience of disability (i.e. being eugenicized out of existence) than the tentative ND acceptance movement that’s been kickstarted in the past 20 years in the anglosphere.

safe to say, there is no ND coding going on in chinese media. characters are either explicitly ND or they're not. there's no basis for a creator subtly inducing ND-like traits in a character, because there's no such thing as ND awareness in the cultural context of where mdzs was written and consumed. any resemblance is purely accidental, as they say.

as to how this resemblance could exist - I could go into the layers and layers of historical, cultural, social and religious context that make up these characters and the xianxia genre as a whole. for this anon in particular i'm happy to, because they've done the work. please please get in touch in some way where we can have a fully fleshed out chat if you're interested in taking this further, I realize i’ve basically addressed none of the finer points you’ve raised but honestly it’s another level of discussion to be had that cannot be summarized in one blog post haha.

as for those who would scream 'but special interests!!' at a character whose sect was founded by a literal monk - what would be the point?

PS. to comprise a starting point for why it's possible to see ND4ND everywhere in media if you looked hard enough - I refer you to the seminal red oni blue oni trope 💁‍♀️

[mxtxfanatic]

Heyyy !! Hope you are having a nice day. I've been scrolling through your blog for a while and I absolutely love your takes and analysis of MDZS as they pretty much match up to my interpretation of MDZS novel. I just wanted to ask you what do you think about wwx's death at the first siege?? As there was no confirmation how he died but a lot of rumors ??? Do you think he qi deviated and his corpses turn on him? Or do you think he intentionally killed himself as was implied (heck it was shown) in cql?

I'm personally of the opinion that he chose to die because all the people he was in charge of protecting died in front of him. Plus his former (sect) brother jc was leading the siege to kill the said people. Not to mention the whole cultivation world for baying for his blood. He was traumatized, exhausted (both mentally and physically) due to destroying stygian seal, grieving due to death of the wen siblings and his shijie (probably blamed himself for it all and people dying).

So what is your take?

Wei Wuxian was killed from the backlash created from trying to destroy the second half of the stygian tiger seal. I'm using the exr translation for my quotes. In the prologue, we are told this:

“The YiLing Patriarch has died? Who could have killed him?” “Who other than his shidi, Jiang Cheng, putting an end to his own relative for the greater good. Jiang Cheng led the Four Clans of YunmengJiang, LanlingJin, GusuLan, and QingheNie to destroy his “den”—LuanZang Hill.”

A couple paragraphs later, someone refutes this, saying:

“That’s merely hearsay. Although Jiang Cheng was one of the main forces, he did not give Wei WuXian the final blow. Because he cultivates the Demon Path, Wei WuXian’s powers had backfired and he was ripped to pieces.”

—and we also get this, which while spoken by the narrator is given a speculative rather than conclusive tone:

Nobody could summon Wei WuXian’s soul, which meant that his soul had disappeared. It might have been torn apart by the millions of ghosts that devoured him.

Later on, Wei Wuxian and Wen Ning have a conversation about the cause of Wei Wuxian's death:

After a moment of silence, Wei WuXian asked again, “What else have you heard?” Wen Ning whispered, “Sect Leader Jiang, Jiang Cheng, brought a siege upon the Burial Mounds. And he killed you.” Wei WuXian, “I’ll have to clarify this one. He didn’t kill me. I died from a backfire.” Wen Ning finally looked up at him, “But, Sect Leader Jiang clearly...” Wei WuXian, “Nobody can walk safely on a single-plank bridge for their whole life. It couldn’t be helped.”

—Chapt. 43: Allure

Wen Ning hears that Wei Wuxian was personally killed by Jiang Cheng, and Wei Wuxian immediately refutes this and says he died from backlash. Wen Ning wants to argue this point, but I think, more than anything, that he is arguing that Wei Wuxian's death is Jiang Cheng's fault (the siege could not have happened without him being able to get past the corpses guarding the base of the Burial Mounds) rather than Jiang Cheng personally landing the killing blow. This is especially true since Jiang Cheng claims credit and glory for both leading the siege and "personally killing" Wei Wuxian, even though we know the latter is a falsehood.

Either way, Wei Wuxian, himself, says he died from backlash, and we know the backlash came from attempting to destroy the second half of the stygian tiger seal because that was what he was working on—having successfully destroyed the first half—when the first siege took place. Wei Wuxian did not kill himself; he knew he was on borrowed time and used it to destroy the weapon he knew the clans were really after.

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

Wei Wuxian and the nice, broad road: or, part two of why constantly self-sacrificial Wei Wuxian takes bother me so much (part one part three):

(Long post ahead)

Something that’s very prevalent in self-sacrificial Wei Wuxian takes, or self-sacrificial takes on any character, is that they’re not only self-sacrificial… they’re also an idiot. As in, they don’t think things through, the first impulse they have when they see anyone in danger is to throw themselves in front of them even if there’s a way that means neither have to get hurt, and even if that person’s not in any serious danger at all. And that combines with the common take of self-hatred and extremely low self-worth to form the image of someone who’ll throw themselves recklessly at any danger with no consideration for any consequences or alternate paths, and are almost seeking to throw their life away.

The thing with Wei Wuxian, though, is that he’s not seeking to throw his life away at any given moment. And, more importantly to this meta, he’s clever and he’s capable. If he can find another way out of it, and the majority of the time he probably can, he’ll choose that option. What I’m trying to say is that, if he sees someone being ambushed by a monster, he’ll distract it, fight it himself, and almost always win. He won’t throw himself in front of its claws. 

However, the problem that arises with the story of MDZS is that there is no other way out. The thing endangering those under his protection isn’t some monster he can fight, it’s the corrupt structure of the society itself. Those in power are only able to manipulate its threads by virtue of their birth and therefore status (almost everyone), or in rare cases by using that structure to your own advantage and engaging in very corrupt methods to clear your path to the top (Jin Guangyao). And neither of those are an option for Wei Wuxian, the ‘son of a servant’ who will never join in with that corruption. 

(And he isn’t the only person we see in this situation. We see the same thing with Mianmian, and she can’t oppose this either — the best thing she can do is walk away.)

Wei Wuxian actually summarised his situation very clearly, when talking to Lan Wangji at the Burial Mounds:

A moment later, Wei WuXian spoke up, “Lan Zhan, you asked me if I intended on staying like this from now on. To be honest, I’d like to ask something as well. What can I do apart from this?” He continued, “Give up the demonic path? Then what about the people on this mountain? “Give them up? I won’t be able to do it. I believe that if you were I, you wouldn’t be able to do it either.” He continued, “Nobody can give me a nice, broad road to walk on. A road where I could protect those I want to protect without having to cultivate the ghostly path.” Lan WangJi gazed at him. He didn’t reply, but both of them knew the answer in their hearts. There was no such road. No solution existed.

- Chapter 75, EXR translation 

This is in regard to Wei Wuxian’s demonic cultivation, but the same rings true for everything else he does at cost to himself in the story. Not sacrifice his Golden Core? Then Jiang Cheng, whose whole sense of self-worth was dependent on being a cultivator, would waste away with no spiritual power and no will to live*. Not save the Wen remnants? Then they’d stay in the labour camp and live and die in horrendous conditions. Not painting the spirit attraction mark on himself to save everyone else at the Second Siege? Then they’d die, because what else could be done? And it’s important to know that he didn’t do it alone here, he had Lan Wangji help defend him as well.

So he technically did have an option every time, yes. But that one option was letting others get hurt, and he’s not going to do that. There was no third path. There was no nice, broad road.

But we see that that broad road is very much one Wei Wuxian would like to walk on.

Wei WuXian smiled, “Why would I leave the nice, broad road, and walk on a single-plank bridge on a dark, narrow river instead? If it really is that easy, people would have already walked on it.”

- Chapter 14, EXR

Again, this refers to demonic cultivation. And again, this can be adapted to every other action he takes. Because there are plenty of situations when there is a third option. And in those cases, he finds the way around it! Wei Wuxian is incredibly smart, incredibly creative, and an incredibly quick thinker — none of us in the fandom should forget that.

And thankfully, there are examples of this in the text. Let’s take a closer look at one specifically: defending Mianmian in the Xuanwu’s cave**, and stopping her being used as bait.

(Long passage ahead)

Watching his subordinates fight with [Lan Wangji and Jin Zixuan], Wen Chao looked as if his mood was much better. He spat, “Talking back to me—what did you think you are? People like you really do deserve to be killed.”

A grinning voice came from the side, “That’s right. All those who oppress others and do evil relying on the power of their clan should be killed. Not only that, they should be beheaded for tens of thousands to revile so that those to come would beware.” Hearing this, Wen Chao spun around, “What did you say?” Wei WuXian pretended to be surprised, “Do you need me to repeat it? Sure. All those who oppress others and do evil relying on the power of their clan should be killed. Not only that, they should be beheaded for tens of thousands to revile so that those to come would beware. You heard it this time?” Hearing this, Wen ZhuLiu seemed to ponder as he glanced at Wei WuXian. Wen Chao erupted, “How dare you say such absurd, outrageous, and pretentious words!” Wei WuXian first lifted the corners of his mouth with a ‘pfft’, then immediately burst into unbridled laughter. Under everyone’s shocked eyes, he laughed so hard that he was out of breath, clutching Jiang Cheng’s shoulder as he spoke, “Absurd? Outrageous? I’d say you’re the one who’s all of those! Wen Chao, do you know who was the one that said those words? I’m sure you don’t, do you? Let me tell you. This was said by the most, most, most famous cultivator of your sect, the one who founded the entire thing, Wen Mao. You dared say that one of your ancestor’s remarks are absurd and outrageous? Well said, very well said! Ahahahahaha…” Within the Quintessence of the Wen Sect that had been given out, even the most ordinary of smalltalk comments could be analyzed over and over, their deep meanings boasted with exceptional extravagance. Let alone memorizing it well, Wei WuXian felt disgusted after just flipping through its pages. However, he found this quote of Wen Mao’s quite ironic, which was why he could recall it with ease. Wen Chao’s complexion switched between red and white. Wei WuXian added, “Right, what was the accusation given to those who insult famous cultivators of the Wen Sect again? How should they be punished? I remember that it was execution, right? Yes, very well, you can go die now.” Wen Chao couldn’t hold himself back any longer, unsheathing his sword and lunging at Wei WuXian. With that, he lunged out of Wen ZhuLiu’s range of protection. Wen ZhuLiu had always been used to defending against the attacks of others. He had never expected Wen Chao to leave by his own will. Facing the sudden difficulty, he somehow couldn’t react in time. On the other hand, as Wei WuXian provoked Wen Chao, he was precisely waiting for the moment of uncontrollable rage. The smile by his lips didn’t falter at all as he attacked with the speed of lightning. In a split second, he had snatched the sword and reversed the situation, subduing Wen Chao with just one move! One hand gripping Wen Chao, he leaped a few times and landed on one of the islets above the pool, keeping his distance from Wen ZhuLiu. With his other hand he pressed the sword onto Wen Chao’s neck, warning, “Nobody move. If you’re not careful, I might just decide to let some blood out of your Young Master Wen!” Wen Chao screeched, “Stop moving! Stop moving!” The disciples surrounding Lan WangJi and Jin ZiXuan finally ceased their attacks. Wei WuXian shouted, “Core-melting Hand, you’re not moving either! You know how the temper of the Wen Sect’s leader is. Your master is in my hand. If he loses just one drop of blood, then not one of the people here should hope to live on, including you!” Wen ZhuLiu put his arms down as Wei WuXian had expected. Seeing that the situation was under control, Wei WuXian was about to speak when he suddenly felt that the entire ground below him had trembled.

- Chapter 52, EXR 

Important things to take away? Firstly, it’s Lan Wangji and Jin Zixuan who are the ones standing in front of the metaphorical (and literal) blades here, risking their own well-being and health for someone else to protect them directly. That’s their first instinct. Wei Wuxian’s is not***. His thought process is this: taunt and enrage Wen Chao, the powerless person in charge, into leaving the protection of the actually powerful person everyone’s scared of, and then use the opportunity of him being undefended to use him as leverage to get Mianmian free****. And he succeeds in that! It wasn’t his fault he didn’t know about the Xuanwu’s presence, the Wen clan were very deliberately keeping that information a secret.

That is very well thought through, especially for such a short timespan, and especially considering the actions of the only other two people who tried to protect Mianmian — a protective stand-off that they very probably could not win, with the likes of Wen Zhuliu around. I repeat: they are the ones standing in the way of the blade here. Wei Wuxian is not. This is what Wei Wuxian does in situations like these, this is how he solves problems! He’s not unthinkingly reckless, he is not a self-sacrificial idiot.

…not that I’m saying Lan Wangji is one either, but he’s never portrayed as one anyway.

And just for the fun on it, let’s take a look at the branding scene too, to see if we can pick anything else up:

Just as he was about to let go, a cry suddenly came from behind him. The cry was full of fear. Turning around, Wei WuXian saw Wang LingJiao give orders to three servants. Two of them brutishly held MianMian in place, clenching her face, while the other raised the branding iron in his hand and thrusted it toward her face! The tip of the iron was so heated that it sizzled and shone with red light. Wei WuXian was some distance away from them. Seeing what was happening, he immediately shifted the direction of the arrows and let go of the string. The three arrows shot out at once and hit each of the three people. Without making a noise, they fell backward onto the ground. Yet, before the bowstring even ceased to vibrate, Wang LingJiao suddenly grabbed the iron that had fallen as well. Gripping MianMian’s hair, she again shoved it toward her face! Even though Wang LingJiao’s level of cultivation was extremely low, her move was both swift and cruel. If she really did it, even if MianMian could keep her eye, her face would be completely ruined. A woman like her, even under such dangerous circumstances where people were prepared to flee at a moment’s notice, still kept her persistent thoughts of harming others! All of the other disciples were setting up their arrows, handling the beast with all of their attention. Nobody was near these two. There were no more arrows on Wei WuXian and there wasn’t enough time to grab someone else’s. Under the urgency of these circumstances, he rushed over, one hand striking away the arm that Wang LingJiao grabbed MianMian’s hair with and the other landing forcefully at her chest. Having undertaken the strike, Wang LingJiao heaved up a mouthful of blood and flew backward. However, the tip of the iron had already pressed onto Wei WuXian’s chest.

- Chapter 53, EXR

…as you can see, there’s a lot more to this than blindly rushing in front of the branding iron. Again, what can we take from this?

One, Wei Wuxian’s first instinct, again, is not to take the strike directly. He shoots the three servants holding down and actively trying to brand Mianmian, eliminating the threat to her. Wang Lingjiao at the time was just giving orders, she wasn’t an active threat — everyone else was fighting the Xuanwu, there was nobody else to give orders to.

But, surprising him, Wang Lingjiao immediately picks up the branding iron. And, like the servant, she aims it at Mianmian’s face. As Wei Wuxian remarks later, that’s a mark she couldn’t hide — her face would be ruined forever, and considering the setting of this world where marriage is extremely important to women society-wise, it would have lasting consequences for Mianmian’s whole life. Marks to the chest, at least you can hide.

And nobody else is focusing on Mianmian, and there’s no time for Wei Wuxian to call for help from anyone else. Ranged attacks aren’t an option, since he’s out of arrows. And only then does he rush straight to Mianmian, to save her directly.

And even then his first thought isn’t to throw himself in front of the iron! His aim in that instance is to strike the iron away from Wang Lingjiao, and to strike Wang Lingjiao away from Mianmian. And during that time, because both hands were occupied, the iron strikes his chest, and he gets the brand mark. Taking it for Mianmian was not the main aim here — though he was willing to risk it.

So, what do we learn from this?

Wei Wuxian’s first instinct is not to put himself in danger to help others. It’s to get the danger away from the one in danger, and then deal with it himself — something fully within his capabilities.

He admits he’s talking “nonsense” when telling Lan Qiren about demonic cultivation for the first time, probably to get himself kicked out of class, but what he says is actually very true when it comes to how Wei Wuxian generally solves problems.

Wei WuXian replied, “There are some things that have no use after liberation, so why not find a way to make use of them? When Yu the Great tamed the flood, obstruction was the inferior method, and redirection was the superior.

- Chapter 14, EXR

He doesn’t stand right in front of it, he doesn’t directly obstruct it from reaching its target by standing in-between the two. He redirects it to somewhere else.

And this pattern rings true throughout the book. Dealing with the fierce corpse of Madam Mo? Use his own corpses to get her attention instead. Same rings for the Dancing Goddess of Dafan Mountain, who’s currently advancing on Jin Ling? Same thing, summoning corpses — he doesn’t attempt to place himself in its way. He’s someone who thinks around the issue, calculates a plan (in a very short time, may I add), and much more often than not, succeeds! He’s willing to risk his life, but that is not the primary aim. Of course, when there are only two options — directly protecting or letting others get hurt — he chooses to protect. And since that is the case with his two biggest decisions in the story, so many people see that as his default instinct when it comes to dangerous situations. But when there is a nice, broad road to walk on, where nobody at all gets hurt, he finds that, and follows it, gladly. 

Wei Wuxian is not a self-sacrificial idiot. He’s a clever, righteous person who’s willing to sacrifice his life for others, but who can and will take another option if one exists. The two are not in any way the same.

—

*I feel like this is an important part of the core transfer that’s overlooked, actually — it’s not just “your core is worth more than mine”, (although with the Jiang parents’ promise to protect Jiang Cheng at all costs, a similar mindset may have played a part in this one specific scenario), it’s “your self-worth and meaning of life derives entirely on your core and being a good cultivator, whereas I can live for and enjoy more than that, and won’t utterly lose my will to live if I can’t cultivate, unlike you”. And for all it hurts, he ends up being right (and even invents a whole new path of cultivation out of necessity). That isn’t saying the sacrifice isn’t emotionally painful for Wei Wuxian, though, it is a lot, and we saw that with his thoughts on it at the Guanyin Temple. 

**I also wanted to talk a bit about him defeating the Xuanwu with Lan Wangji, but I couldn’t find anywhere to fit it in. Similar to the Golden Core thing, him distracting it while Lan Wangji did the killing isn’t a “your life is worth more than mine” thing. Lan Wangji was the only one who knew the Chord Assassination technique, which was the only way either of them could think to kill the Xuanwu, as any weapons were useless. In addition to that, Lan Wanji’s leg was injured, so he couldn’t swim anyway. The only option left was for Wei Wuxian to distract it, and he was capable enough to survive! And yes, it was dangerous, but the mindset of both of them in that moment was that they had no way of knowing help would come for them, and that their only chance of escape by themselves was to kill the Xuanwu — and you might as well kill it before you die, anyway. For all they knew, both of them would have died if he hadn’t done that, and so whatever happened was worth it. This is not a mindless ‘your life before mine’ mindset, he thought this through. 

***He actually did instinctively twitch a little as if to move when Mianmian was being surrounded, but Jiang Cheng held him back. However, he's a much stronger cultivator than Jiang Cheng at this point, and could have easily broken out of his grasp to directly protect Mianmian had he wished to. But he didn't choose that option, and decided, very quickly, to instead do what we see here. As @/rynne pointed out (thank you very much!), that's a clear moment when he's faced with a choice to be self-sacrificial, or solve the problem another way. And he decidedly chooses the latter.

****Actually, Wei Wuxian taunts others into accomplishing his goals quite a lot. He’s not a long-game manipulator like Jin Guangyao or Nie Huaisang, but playing on their emotions to get the result you want in the short term? Look at Lan Wangji and the destruction of the porn book, look at Lan Qiren and getting kicked out of his the class in the Cloud Recesses (when talking about using resentful energy, his own thoughts tell us he’s talking “nonsense”, and clearly wanted to leave the class — this was likely a bid to to just that), look at taunting Xue Yang into talking so he reveals his location in the mists of Yi City. I hardly ever see him doing this in fanon, which is kind of sad, because it’s very interesting definitely something he uses to solve problems (and something people could very well use instead of throwing himself in front of everything!)… and if we have to go there, no, I don’t think that makes him ‘morally grey’ either.

[leatherbookmarking]

loose thots so that people don't resent me for one sillay post every 3 seconds:

wwx sees the cultivators starting hunting on the dafan mountain again after they were freed and briefly considers being a little nuisance to them because they were jin ling's opponents... uncle brain uncle brain

"oh it's going to be Bad when that jin ling steps up to lead his sect!" mxtx is this fun. is this a fun little joke to you

i saw that the jiang sect motto has been translated as ‘attempt the impossible’ and i began wondering if it’s a good translation. on one hand, mottos ought to be short and succinct, so it works, on the other, i’ve seen my number of people who’ve interpreted it as ‘the jiang sect’s motto is basically #yolo hahaha!’ when the original quote, something like “know and understand that something is impossible, then try to achieve it anyway”, sounds like there’s more awareness in it, rather than “rules are meant to be broken yayyyyy”. maybe it’s just the ‘nooo it’s not that simple, the original sentence has Depth!’ syndrome? but then several meta-writing people have commented on it, so i don’t know

ah another sentence that sounds Hmmm. “who knows who bestowed it with its divinity and had the audacity to place it here for worship!” it just... doesn’t really hit? exr’s “It’s only a stupid rock, given the title of a goddess by who knows who. And people dare to give it incense and worship!” is, hmm. bouncier

dear god, sometimes this book really sounds like it wasn’t translated by a native english speaker. first “the azimuth of her gaze”, then “a cataract of blood”. “cataract” apparently does mean a large waterfall or a downpour, but for god’s sake...

i never remember what parts were made up for the show and what were actually in the book... i thought wen qing and her branch living in dafan was a show thing...? so why does lsz feel the goddess’ face is familiar...? hhhh brain cooperate please

on one hand i’m a humorless bitch, don’t like the “haha lxc has never washed his clothes in his entire life” thing Very much, on the other, there IS something delicious in how privileged and isolated the lan are. the juniors were surprised by people being People in the mo village, now we learn that they’ve never considered the concept of Not Having Money... of course they’re juniors, so perhaps it’s supposed to show us that the previous generation tried to make their lives better, but. sigh

like come onnnn lan an was a monk! i always thought he was a monk monk, not a rich monk whose specialty is accepting gifts and looking healthy!

DOING LAUNDRY IS A USEFUL SKILL

huff.

the exr translation has a-yan’s husband being killed by wolves, but in this one, it’s a jackal.... i went to check, the original really does have 豺狼. and they can hunt alone. huh...!

squints squints, i don’t like how they preserve the chinese structure of “who knows”. “who knew if they would notice anything amiss and rush over?” like what does it MEAN. it sounds so strange.

this one sentence is confusing in both the official and exr translation. it’s like, “whatever creepy thing was coming, at least it was obeying his command”, or something, right?

ohhhh so they’re not black veins but black cracks? as in cracks in his skin? HUH yeah that’s gross, yeah, yep, kinda disgusting

wql 🤝 sms @ having holes in them, possibly oozing fluids

ooooooh i didn’t see the wen ning illustration! it’s so cool and dynamic! and oh yeah those nails!

god it would have been so wild if someone had managed to catch wen ning. the word would probably get to jgy real fast. what do you do in a situation like this

ah, lwj and jc commenting in unison, “...”

i just. i love jingyi lansplaining zidian to jc so much. kid. holy fuck

so one of the cultivators says jc might not know who mxy is, and jc indeed seems so, but... jin ling... jgy... jc would have to have some incredible tunnel vision not to know mxy

but ALSO “yeah wwx was a mass murderer and the embodiment of evil, but come on let’s give him some respect, he wouldn’t pick a cutsleeve to posses AND he was good at playing the flute. duh”

at what point fo you think jc was 1000% sure that was wwx? personally my bet is on “um, it’s kinda weird that you’re so clingy, sect leader jiang” and what happens later. there is only One person who would be THIS annoying

LAN XICHEN LAN HUAN ZEWU-JUN 💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙

“People were a product of their environment.” HA!

LIANFANG-ZUN 💛 JIN GUANGYAO 💛 A-YAO 💛💛💛

JIN LING’S LITTLE UNCLE 💛 

it’s Incredible that we start the story with mxy as the one who slept on the cold ground and ate leftovers, while jgy could summon zewu-jun to help him pick curtains! when mxy has been brought into the picture to show jgy exactly how replaceable he was! mxtxxxxxxxxx

“damn cut-sleeve!” jingyi homophobe of the year 2k22!!!!!!1111

“pedantry, pertinacity, and proficiency in producing peerless pupils” yes!!! yes!!! love this one!!! mwah chefs kiss!!!

ok, i’m taking a break, but i gotta admit that if i get into the flow and pay less attention to the writing and more to the events, it’s p enjoyable!

[textsfrommxtx]

hey, so I just read your answer to the ask where op wanted to know if lwj and wwx were friends before wwx died,, but when I read mdzs I apparently went blind when lwj confessed before wwx died?!? if you happen to know where that happened in the book I would love to go back and read it!!

hi! LONG POST INCOMING, this is an interpretation i hold dear. it's nothing we see first-person because of wei wuxian's spotty memory. i'm going to disclaim here that it was my interpretation of the text (although an interpretation i've seen and discussed with other members of the fandom) and that i read the exr translation. i also haven’t listened to the audio drama (gasp, i know)

anyway, it's in chapter 99 when lan xichen unleashes on wei wuxian. i think it’s as HEAVILY IMPLIED as it can be, given that it’s recounted by lan xichen and not lan wangji himself, and wei wuxian doesn’t remember it. particularly these parts:

When we arrived, you sat blankly on a rock within the cave. Holding your hand, WangJi was giving you spiritual energy. He kept on whispering to you. But throughout the whole time, you repeated the same two words at him.

“‘Get lost’!”

this is the rejection. or lan wangji’s perceived rejection, since not only does wei wuxian not remember it, i don’t think he was even aware of his surroundings when it was happening. i would love to know exactly what lan wangji was saying in these scenes, but i have no way of knowing (unless it’s confirmed in the audio drama! that is apparently an important level of canon i’m missing, but i just haven’t had the brain power to get through it yet.)

lan wangji never says anything about it after wei wuxian comes back, even with wei wuxian making moves on him throughout, because he’s already confessed and been shot down. and that’s why wei wuxian feels so awful when he learns this! because lan wangji thinks wei wuxian knows how he feels and doesn’t reciprocate.

“With the ways in which he looked and talked to you when he saved you and hid you in that cave, even someone who was blind or deaf could perceive his feelings, which was why my uncle was in such anger.

sometimes the deeper understanding lan xichen has of lan wangji is attributed to the fact that they’re brothers and lan xichen is the only person who Gets Him. and that might be true sometimes, but in this case lan xichen is clear that lan wangji was not being discreet. even oblivious wei wuxian would have understood.

“And you say… And you say you do not know. Young Master Wei, after you returned in your body, how did you pester him and confess to him? Every night… Every night, you had to… And you say you do not know? If you did not know, why did you do such things?”

lan xichen thought wei wuxian knew all along!

If Lan WangJi didn’t know that he couldn’t at all recall what happened in the few days after the massacre at Nightless City, if Lan WangJi thought that he knew about his feelings all along, just how horrible were the things he did after he came back?

and wei wuxian thinks that if he could just remember, he would also have known all along!

hopping to chapter 100:

After a deep breath, Wei WuXian whispered, “… I really do have a bad memory. I can’t remember a lot of the things that happened in the past, including the time at the Nightless City. I don’t remember a single bit of what happened during those days.”

Hearing this, Lan WangJi’s eyes widened slightly.

and lan wangji figures it out when he learns that wei wuxian doesn’t remember.

so the thing for me, based on the conversations in these chapters, is: the reason wei wuxian doesn’t know lan wangji loves him isn’t because lan wangji never told him. it’s because wei wuxian can’t remember this very specific incident. i don’t necessarily think lan wangji said it in so many words, but i do think whatever he said was clear enough that wei wuxian would have understood. or maybe the act of taking him away and fighting back against his own sect is meant to be the confession itself. it’s...pretty open to interpretation due to the fact that the event is being recounted 13 years later by a third party.

so, yeah! chapter 99/100 isn’t just “he’s in love with you, meathead,” it’s “he TOLD you he’s in love with you and you’ve been TORMENTING him this WHOLE time because you DON’T REMEMBER?”

[weilongfu]

Wei reads Mo Dao Zu Shi (Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation)

OKAY FINE, I READ IT. I blame @sarah-yyy @stebeee and @ctl-yuejie for me reading this because they’ve been posting beautiful things about MDZS/Untamed and I had opinions without actually knowing anything so here we are. FYI I didn’t read all the translated extras because reasons that I will get to at the end. 

I’m also not tagging this for MDZS or Untamed because I’d rather not get people that are super passionate about it in my face if they don’t like my opinion. If you reblog, please do not tag it for the fandom.

WARNING THIS RANT/REVIEW WILL CONTAIN SOME SPOILERS FOR THE NOVEL. EVERYTHING BUT SYNOPSIS WILL BE UNDER A CUT.

Weilongfu’s synopsis: After many years of death after terrorizing the the numerous sects of the Cultivation world, Wei Wu Xian finds himself returned to the mortal world by a forbidden technique. However, as soon as he gets his bearings, he is caught by the nemesis of his previous life, Lan Wang Ji. Despite many attempts to annoy or disgust him, LWJ will not let WWX go. After events bring the two together, they have no choice but to set out on an adventure to find the source of trouble brewing anew in the Cultivation world. The farther they travel, the closer they become. The closer they become, the more WWX realizes that LWJ might not have been as annoyed with him as he previously thought.

ExR Translation synopsis:  As the grandmaster who founded the Demonic Sect, Wei WuXian roamed the world in his wanton ways, hated by millions for the chaos he created. In the end, he was backstabbed by his dearest shidi and killed by powerful clans that combined to overpower him. He incarnates into the body of a lunatic who was abandoned by his clan and is later, unwillingly, taken away by a famous cultivator among the clans—Lan WangJi, his archenemy. This marks the start of a thrilling yet hilarious journey of attacking monsters, solving mysteries, and raising children. From the mutual flirtation along the way, Wei WuXian slowly realizes that Lan WangJi, a seemingly haughty and indifferent poker-face, holds more feelings for Wei WuXian than he is letting on.

Overall Plot Assessment and Summary: After WWX returns to life in the body of Mo Xuan Yu, sacrificed to him in exchange for revenge, he attempts to make a break for it and get away from all the cultivators around him before they can realize who he really is. Unfortunately, at every step, WWX has no choice but to intervene or let young cultivators die. This ends up giving away his identity to almost every single person who knew WWX because of his sass, attitude, and abilities in demonic cultivation (AKA basically the wuxia version of necromancy). 

In the end, WWX decides to help LWJ solve the mystery behind events that cannot be mere coincidences, leading to a much larger plot and conspiracy. All STILL connected to WWX and his life before he died. No really, the SHEER LENGTHS everyone went to fuck with WWX in life and death are ASTRONOMICAL. It’s no wonder the man just wants to fuck off to a mountain made of decaying corpses and just plant shit and let everyone else fight it out. THEY STILL FIND A REASON TO BOTHER HIM.

Along their adventure, WWX finds out that LWJ is not so cold and indifferent to him. Quite the opposite in fact. As the story reaches a climax and all the great mysteries and plots are revealed, WWX and LWJ finally confess and confirm their love for each other, in front of the final villain who’s been plotting his rise to power since the very beginning and is in control of most of the situation. It’s as cliche a love moment as you can get despite the rising stakes. At least the characters are so self-aware due to their clearly high level of cultivation, that they all politely cough and say that the two should get a room after this is all over. I swear to god, that is practically what happens. Even the villain can’t believe this level of bullshit.

In the end, it’s literally the power of love, friendship, and teamwork that some how makes the dream work. The villain gets his ass kicked, the deus ex machina happens just in time, there’s ANOTHER mastermind that no one can really prove is the mastermind but fucking hell if WWX doesn’t make a damn good case, and JFC there’s some porn. They really tried to give us everything. Kudos to you, Author.

The majority of backstory and past events required for understanding the current political situation/fight scene all happen in flashbacks before or after the actual situation takes place in the present. So at least we can say MDZS shows and doesn’t just TELL. And god does it show. It goes on for 113 chapters and as of right now, has 13 translated BONUS chapters. ExR translations actually still has MDZS as “In Progress.” I am afraid to know how many MORE bonus chapters there are. I actually, as I said above, did not finish reading the bonus chapters. That gets a gripe paragraph.

It is the slowest fucking slow burn of all slow burns on top of that. WWX doesn’t even realize what the fuck is going on between him and LWJ until somewhere between chapters 70 and 80. They don’t officially confess until after chapter 100. That is literally 90% of the novel DONE before they confess. Your fave slow burn could fucking never unless they wrote 200+ chapters and stopped at the confession at the very last line. This is also a PRIME example of the “Idiots in Love” trope and I normally enjoy this trope. I am not entirely sure I enjoyed it here, but I’d have to take a swing at LWJ to deal with that and Bichen (LWJ’s sword) is a little too awesome so I’m not going near that.

Overall, not a bad plot, probably the most ambitious plot I’ve ever SEEN for a BL novel. I would like to give MDZS for being particularly impressive in that regard. I would actually draw relations to similarly complex and epic political fantasy works for the sheer amount of politics and characters that show up. It is probably on the level of Game of Thrones, The Stormlight Archives, or in other classical lit, War and Peace, with the number of people from different sects and parts of the timeline that you have to follow in order to understand. Never mind how many names and titles everyone has. 

The Gripes: Okay, did I mention that MDZS is the slowest of all fucking slow burns? I did? Let me mention it again. MDZS is the slowest burn of all motherfucking slow burns I have ever had the pleasure or interest in reading. 90% of the novel before they actually both confess! There’s slow and then there’s slow. I didn’t hate that this happened, I only disliked how we had to see LWJ’s behavior and then attempt to draw context based on how different it is compared to his previous actions in the flashbacks. Which you wouldn’t know to do until chapter 70+ anyway. And at that point, do you really want to backtrack and see if you were right? Stronger people than me will, I’m sure. But I don’t have time for that.

Let’s also give the flashbacks a proper take down here. Flashbacks, used well, are a good way to let the reader know important information that has happened. The problem with flashbacks in MDZS is that they happen every few chapters for a multitude of reasons. WWX decided to peek into someone’s memories by letting them possess him. Someone is reminiscing. Someone is telling a story. Someone died. Someone lived. Someone complained about WWX before in the past. Someone was wronged. Someone has to explain their complicated family situation. The list goes on. This would be fine if they were more spaced out, but the flashbacks bleed into each other because the moments of things happening in the present feel incredibly fleeting in comparison to how long and dense the flashback chapters are. 

If you haven’t spaced out by the time you finished a flashback in it’s entirety, you’ll just hopefully remember what the current ghoul of the story arc WWX and LWJ are facing and why it’s relevant. No really, flashbacks just HAPPEN in the middle of pitched battles and incredibly interesting things happening in the present because you need to know why someone is a super zombie attempting to kill everyone and the reason is part of an exceptionally long memory of a ghost of a girl because you need to know the motivation of the douche that made the super zombie, the girl that died, and the other guys that died. 

I also mentioned above that I didn’t finish reading the bonus chapters. LWJ and WWX have approx. two sex scenes in the core 113 chapters. They’re not particularly well written, although that might be that something is lost in translation. But if at any point smut is written about members, and pink spots between ass cheeks, and a lack of lube, it’s really only written to titillate a particular subset of BL fans. The rest of that don’t take kindly to that sort of thing would do better to avoid reading the porn. Which means you’d really do better to avoid reading the bonus chapters. They are just bonus porn. And if it was well written bonus porn, I wouldn’t complain. 

As it stands, I’m going to complain because if I’m falling asleep while reading porn, there is something wrong with your porn. Apparently someone had said that the bonus chapters are extra “night hunts” (AKA times where cultivationists go out and kill evil things). But really I would say that they are extra night “hunts” where LWJ’s dick is the sword, WWX’s ass is the ghoul, and WWX needs an exorcism and the only way to do it is with LWJ’s jizz SPIRITUAL POWER. They showcase a variety of situations and kinks that LWJ and WWX might have, but if you try to read them all at once, you’re going to get bored. 

This last gripe is a relatively minor one, but it is A gripe in that there are just so many names and titles to keep track of. Everyone has a birth name, a courtesy name, a title, a familiar name, etc. If you are unused to traditional Chinese naming conventions, this will definitely make your head spin. As it stands, I was barely able to remember who was associated with what. Thank god they drop names every other sentence so that it’s clear who’s talking about who. 

Were all these complaints, the majority of which seem kind of petty, enough to ruin the novel for me? Weelll....

Pros? Cons? Would you recommend? Okay first of all, I love me a good fantasy novel whether it’s straight or LGBTQ+. MDZS has enough trappings of one to hook me. The abilities bestowed by weapons and cultivation were all very interesting and definitely to my taste. Also flying on fucking swords? Who even? The system of magic and abilities is also pretty firmly cemented in old Chinese lore and most of it makes sense within the limits that the novel describes. So MDZS gets a point for that.

Pro number two was although they were so hard to get through and figure out, everyone’s character arcs were pretty good. Many characters learned and grew consistently within each chapter. You actually find yourself rooting for several of the side characters to stop being assholes at the end (looking at you Jiang Cheng and Jin Ling), although Nie Hui Sang is a weird fucking twist, but okay fine, at this point I don’t want to fight about it. Wen Ning deserved better. 

Third, as I said, it’s probably the most ambitious kind of BL plot I’ve ever finished reading. MDZS manages to weave a semblance of a romance under your nose while you’re busy wondering who’s stirring up shit with the undead. I think second would probably be Guardian if I ever finish that. They’d probably be close to on par as to how different and engaging they both are. 

And fourth, there’s a happy ending. People are actually happy about the way things resolved. WWX and LWJ ride off into the sunset, happy and together. They support each other, LWJ defends WWX, WWX does his best not to stir up that much shit, their semi-adopted son continues to be a fine young man, and I guess not everyone got screwed over. Entirely. Mostly. Happiness, true and genuine, is not something easily found. I’m glad WWX and LWJ got to have that together.

However, the cons of convoluted timeline shenanigans with flashbacks vs present, difficult to follow politics or ambitions, and slow pace are setbacks. I’m not even going to count the porn as a negative because for all I know, it is a rocking sex scene if only I could read Chinese (I’m working on that). 

I didn’t hate MDZS. I mildly enjoyed my time reading it. I’m not entirely sure I got what I paid for in terms of time reading it, but hey, I read it for free so why should I complain that much? I think I’d have liked it more if it was a little tighter with it’s story line or at least had more punch to its arcs. If you’re going to make me read a 5+ chapter flashback, at least make everything in the flashback relevant to the present! Otherwise, why did we need 5+ chapters of memory as an exposition?

I think if you are someone who enjoys wuxia dramas/novels or really enjoys a good fantasy/mystery with a heavy dash of slow burn BL, MDZS might be for you. Unless you don’t like being boldfaced told the answer by a character because he figures everything out before you, but props to WWX for having the single brain cell in the midst of several cultivational sects and two masterminds that appear to have two brain cells each. Oh, and LWJ has several. 

If you don’t have any sort of patience and want to see the characters bang by chapter 5, MDZS is not for you. MDZS is also not for you if you don’t want to bother untangling the ball of knots that is a complex web of character motivations and desires. I’d also recommend against reading all 113 chapters for the porn at the end. If all you really want is to read the porn at the end, you’re not going to lose that much context if you just read the porn and imagine that a bunch of scary and romantic things happened in the back story and then look they’re fucking in a dream brought on by some psychedelic special spiritual incense burner!

I wish I was lying.