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punkylilwitch · 3 years ago

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Medusa

Myth vs. Modern

In mythology, the story of medusa has a couple translations that you’ll be sorry to hear aren't great. Specifically, the version that we hear today about Medusa being the victim is a lot more iffy than what’s been accepted by society. First, I’ll share the most widely recognized (and debated) stories, while I do this I’ll compare them to each other by sharing the history in the similar parts of Medusa’s story, and second I’ll share the modern reclaiming of the symbolism medusa has come to be.

The Beginnings

Medusa was born to Phorcys and Ceto, a minor sea god and water goddess/mother of sea monsters. Her siblings include Graeae (The sisters who share one eye and were forced into telling Perseus where Medusa laid so he could slay her. This was done by Perseus holding their eye hostage), Stheno and euryale the gorgons, Echidna the snake woman, Thoosa the sea nymph, Ladon the dragon (guardian of the Golden Apples in the Garden of the Hesperides), and the nymphs of the evening - the Hesperides. Medusa was the only one of her gorgon siblings who was born mortal. She was also the most human of all her siblings, even being beautiful amongst humans. She lived amongst the mortals because of this, becoming a priestess of Athena in Athens. She was incredibly popular out of the priestesses, gaining the attention of the god of the sea and storms Poseidon.

The Controversy

A Tragedy

Sympathetic - a curse given as a blessing

Some believe that Medusa’s curse was given to her as a blessing. In this variation, Medusa did not consent to Poseidon and Athena knew this, so she gave medusa the supposed power to keep away anyone else who may want to do this to Medusa again. This merely had the unfortunate side affect of afflicing literally everyone (sort of how the blessing of King Midas’ touch became a curse)

Cruel - a curse given out of malice

Others believe that Medusa did not consent to having intercourse with Poseidon, but was punished by Athena anyway. In this iteration, Athena blames Medusa for being too flamboyant and vain. Thus, the curse was given as just that - a curse.

Fairness in Justice

Justice - Medusa was cursed for being gross in a sacred place

A number believe that Medusa and Poseidon mutually had intercourse within Athena’s temple. Thus, Athena cursed her to more closely resemble her siblings so Medusa was forced to flee Athens and her life there.

Freeing - a curse given along with freedom

A few believe that Medusa and Poseidon willingly had intercourse in the temple, but that Athena was forgiving about it. They believe that this curse was given in order to free Medusa of her duties as priestess, freeing her from the burdens of humans and elevating Medusa to a divine form.

Misfortunate - Medusa tricked the gods into sympathizing with her

The remainder believe that Medusa maliciously tricked Athena into sympathizing with her this group is similar to the group seen in the “Sympathetic” section when it comes to the reason in which medusa was given the curse, but they believe that Athena purposely made it so that the power cannot be misused by making it affect medusa, ending in a sort of bittersweet power as a result. One thing I would like to note is that I could not find proof in this theory, but given the other theories, I decided to add it because some may believe it. Therefore, this theory is the only one without a source. If you have one, please feel free to reblog this and add it

But in every variation, a few things remain. Firstly, Poseidon left the moment they were caught in every variation. Secondly, what medusa became remains the same. Her long hair turned to snakes, her skin turned green, and her face was cursed so that anyone who looked upon it turned into stone. Thirdly, Medusa, once being transformed, no longer wanted to remain in Athens and instead fled to an island far away to be closer to her family.

Similarities

There are a couple ways in which Medusa’s story connects with itself. These are parts of the story historians are much less divided on.

One such connection is the known belief that in the story of Medusa, she is in the end killed by Perseus, who had been sent by Polydectes in the hopes that Perseus would be killed by the interaction. Instead, Perseus is aided by the gods by being given a sword and winged sandals from Hermes, and a mirror shield from Athena. He was also gifted just before this a cap of invisibility and a magical bag used to hold Medusa’s head safely once the deed had been done.

Notably, it was Athena’s temple in which Medusa was caught in, so take from that what you will. Medusa’s head is chopped off in her sleep, and that ends that.

Once Medusa was dead, Pegasus and Chrysaor were born of the wound, popping out of her neck and waking her two gorgon sisters who she was sleeping by in the cave. However, Perseus got away, delivering the head first to Polydectes and turning him to stone by showing the head to him and second delivering it to Athena. Also notable, Athena was then presented with this head as evidence of Perseus’ worthiness, which Athena then wore on her shield.

Modern Reclaiming

https://www.inkedmag.com/original-news/medusatattoos

Nowadays, most have accepted the theory that Medusa was taken against her will, though those who say she was a willing participant are still in the many. But Medusa’s story has evolved into much more than that. Now, She is a symbol of strength and being a survivor of SA (sexual assault) and is used in tattoos, stickers, art, and much more. Specifically, a medusa tattoo can be a protection from the evil, and/or a symbol of the victims. The most common interpretation of Medusa suggests she is an apotropaic symbol similar to the modern evil eye. She is said to represent a dangerous threat; and is meant to deter other dangerous threats. An image of evil to repel evil so to speak.

(I hope this doesn’t get taken down for nudity but it’s art soooo..?)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/13/arts/design/medusa-statue-manhattan.html

According to this article called How a Medusa Sculpture From a Decade Ago Became #MeToo Art by The New York Times, A statue made by Luciano Garbati sparked quite some controversy. The art, called “Medusa With the Head of Perseus” is a riff on the previously mentioned tale in which Perseus takes the head of Medusa. Accoridng to the article, “On Tuesday[The article came out on October 13th of 2020], Mr. Garbati’s sculpture — “Medusa With the Head of Perseus” — was reimagined as a symbol of triumph for victims of sexual assault, when it was unveiled in Lower Manhattan, just across the street from the criminal courthouse on Centre Street.” (Julia Jacobs).

Sources:

Medusa and Poseidon did it willingly (discusses theories of Freeing and Justice) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrmjcQuG-Gg

Perseus’ story summary (comical and over simplified) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4h8vzK60yk

Lineage source and also they thought that Medusa and Poseidon had an affair and she was punished (discusses theory of Justice) - https://www.thoughtco.com/greek-mythology-medusa-1524415#:~:text=One%20of%20three%20Gorgon%20sisters,she%20was%20born%20at%20sea.

General story and also they believe that Medusa and Poseidon had intercourse willingly and Athena punished Medusa (though notably specifically because Medusa was impregnated and Athena was the goddess of virginity) - https://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/Creatures/Medusa/medusa.html

They believe that Medusa was a victim. (discusses theory of Cruel) TW: mentions of SA. - https://eportfolios.roehampton.ac.uk/hsa020c132h/2018/06/29/medusa-as-a-victim/#:~:text=Medusa%20was%20so%20beautiful%20that,Gorgon%20instead%20of%20helping%20her.

They believe that Athena had to protect her former priestess by cursing her. (discusses theory of sympathetic) TW: mentions of SA. - https://www.parlia.com/a/athena-helped-medusa-by-transforming-her-into (The source’s source -http://diaryoftheblackdog.blogspot.com/2017/10/medusa-was-defending-herself.html#:~:text=Athena%20did%20not%20punish%20Medusa,Medusa%20was%20never%20touched%20again.)

#classical mythology #greek mythology #medusa #medusa myth #mythology #greek myth retellings #greek myth #greek mythos #witchy #witches #witchcraft #witches of tumblr #witch

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dailyadventureprompts · 3 years ago

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Footnotes on Foes #3

thirteen-jades

Medusae?

As a fan of greek myth, I find the story of Medusa fascinating, in no small part because its a thematic clusterfuck that likely resulted from a few different stories getting sandwiched together. Lets untangle some of these threads (mostly based on different versions I’ve heard, and how they bare relevance on the whole heroes slaying monsters thing):

Medusa was a priestess of Athena who had an affair with Poseidon ( One of Athena’s main rivals regarding the founding of Athens) and defiled one of the goddess’s temples in the process. Unable to take revenge upon her uncle ( who was both family and a god) Athena curses Medusa to be a horrid monster. She also cursed her sisters for some reason.

Medusa was beautiful and was assaulted by Poseidon, again unable to take revenge on her uncle ( but far more sympathetic this time) Athena makes it so that no man can ever touch or even LOOK at medusa again. After her death, Athena takes medusa’s head as an emblem on her shield/breastplate (not literally mounting the head there, how weird would that be?) as a symbol of her silent scorn #girlboss

The hero Perseus is tasked with killing Medusa by a king who wants him out of the picture in order to marry his mom. The gorgon in question is set up like all good mythic greek monsters, insurmountable by brute force and requiring a clever trick to overcome. (Mirror shield, give or take winged sandals and helm of invisibility). Perseus, the mad lad, actually gives the king what he wanted, ending up turning him to stone in the process. What’s weird is how little Poseidon or Athena really feature in this tale (not at all and as vague guide respectively), which you think they would given how invested they are in Medusa’s creation.

D&D also does this thing of making one signature monster into an entire species, trying to give a lone individual an ecology that somehow makes sense ( how do medusae reproduce and raise young?)

Personally I’m very fond of the Theros god Pharika, mistress of venoms and cures as an origin for Medusae, much like how I have my Yuan-ti, Medusae are the results of a potent transformation brought about by alchemy and the snake goddess’s blessing, allowing the bearer to not only remake their own flesh in her image, but violently transmute the matter of others with but a glance. This allows you to treat a medusa’s appearance both as a random act of divine interference or as the culmination of some mad venom-mage’s ascension, much like lichdom.

Edit:

A helpful follower with more in-depth knowledge of greek mythology sent in this:

Which makes total sense, and is inline with everything I know about Ovid (the transformation kink should have given it away), and while I knew about the “Medusa and her Sisters were born of Typhon+ Echidna” version, I failed to mention it in detail. My bad.

I had multiple mythology books growing up as a kid and ALL of them mentioned the Medusa transformation chain of events. Weird that all these different writers decided to include Roman literature as an inseparable part of Greek Mythology, though I’ve no doubt that I’ve stumbled upon some classics major’s pet peeve.

#footnotes on foes #Serpentfolk #pharika #mythology #medusa

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reki-of-the-valley · 8 months ago

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Welp, now that the poll has come to a close, here's a list why I think every one of these men are assholes as well as who I think is the biggest asshole here (and the reason for this poll

Disclaimer: I am not completely objective, I have my own biases, and also I don't have a perfect memory so I might forget parts.

First of all, the biggest asshole in my opinion is JASON. I am a Jason hater and a human being second. I will get into his atrocities soon.

Now, each of these men have done terrible things, so let's get through it

PERSEUS: No. Not Percy Jackson. The original Perseus, son of Zeus. Most people seem to ignore the reason for his quest. It's not a demand of the gods or even a prophecy. This man got into a squabble with a dude he hated because the guy wanted to marry Perseus' mother, but couldn't because a) she didn't like him; b) she already had a son and the guy was afraid the son would kill him if he made a move. And also, no, Medusa's head wasn't to protect his mother (Percy Jackson does that, not Perseus.) The reason for the quest was literally the guy asking all his friends (+Perseus) to get gifts for his daughter's wedding, Perseus grumbling that he wouldn't even get her a gorgon head, and the guy taunting Perseus about it, so Perseus goes "Fine! I'll go get your stupid gorgon head!!" Medusa did nothing here. She didn't attack them or anything. She was chilling and this guy comes around and kills her. And that's a dick move in my opinion

JASON: I have beef with this man, so this might be long. I urge everyone to go read or watch Medea by Euripides (it's really something when a man playwright makes a murderous mother seem like the sympathetic one in the relationship). But the tldr of Jason's story is that he's destined to overthrow his uncle, but to do that, his mother has to hide him and ship him to Chiron, which she does. Once grown, Jason goes back home and tries to ask his uncle to give up his tyrannical ways. But his uncle Pelias goes "OK, but on the condition you complete this question" and that's how we get the Argonauts assembly montage. Fast forward the boys in the boat, they make it to Colchis where there's the Golden Fleece, owned by Aeetes, Medea's dad. Now is Jason's time to shine, except no one believes in him, not even the gods, so they basically curse Medea to fall in love and help Jason. A few atrocities later, after grabbing the Golden fleece and running (atrocities that include killing Medea's brother, and getting Pelias' daughters to kill him, atrocities committed by both Medea and Jason btw), the couple are exiled from Jason's homeland and head to Corinth.

Now before I begin chapter 2 of their story, I want everyone to know that Jason, upon meeting Medea, told her he'd love her forever and worship her like a goddess in Greece and all these wonderous promises. Yeah, he didn't keep them. Once in Corinth (after being married to Medea for like 10 years, with 2 kids), Jason abandons her for the new hot and young princess. And Medea is reasonably pissed. And Jason tries to gaslight her into believing that he's doing all this for her, and when she calls out his bullshit and reminds him that she saved him countless times, he basically tells her that his only savior is Aphrodite, and so dismissing all of Medea's loyalty to him. And throughout the play, Jason is just an overall asshole that tries to convince Medea that she's an ungrateful bitch for being mad at him. Seriously, everyone should read/watch Medea

HERACLES/HERCULES: I will not speak of his trials because tbh I don't care about them. He killed monsters, but that's not what makes him an asshole. His family and moving on real quickly. And yeah, I'm a hypocrite for being a Medea Fan and not a Herakles one, but alas. I'm biased. And yeah, Herakles was cursed with madness, but still. I just have huge beef with him since forever. Also, not very happy with the whole "I can't believe I died at the hands of a woman!!! After everything I did, I should have a more glorious death!!!!" thing.

THESEUS: why is he an asshole? Many reasons. You all seem to know them. But we have the whole psycho killer trials where hebstraight up tortures like 6 people on his way to Athens. He gets Medea exiled from Athens (again, I'm a Medea Apologist). Then there's the whole Ariadne thing (depending on the version, either Dionysus swipes Ari from Theseus, or he just abandons her after getting her help to kill her half brother, which is the version I consider canon). Then there's the careless sails thing which ends up with his father committing suicide. And then there's Phaedra's story. He's just an irrational man who thinks he's above everyone. He's not.

ODYSSEUS: I will admit that I am biased towards Odysseus. He's an asshole, but he's my special little asshole. But he's done bad things, like be a mass murderer and be a fucking idiot that hot his whole crew killed after boasting about being a great leader. He also brutally murdered all the suitors, killing "defenseless" men, but I kinda have to defend him? The narration style just doesn't point to him as being a complete asshole and he has his charms. He's an asshole, but definitely not the biggest asshole. And for the whole tossing of Hector's son thing, depends on the source because it could also be Achilles' son who does that. And for the cheating on Penelope, I'm not really on board with that either. Like physically, yes, but also, I'm more tempted to say he's a little forced there. (And iirc he cries every day for Penelope while he's with Calypso). So Odysseus is just. My little asshole (affectionate), but that's my bias.

ACHILLES: OK, I'm so biased because I love Achilles. Not because of TSOA, I know he's not innocent, but the Iliad means everything to me and I just. Achilles has a special place in my heart. But with that said, Achilles is a rapist and an abductor and he's prideful. I won't go into the rape and abduction because let's be honest here, basically all the heroes are to some extent, so it's not him exclusively, but that does make him terrible. He refuses to end the war (which he could do on his own) because he's been disgraced by Agamemnon. He refuses to bury his boyfriend best friend out of grief (both gross and an asshole move because Patroclus can't go to the underworld until he's buried). Made human sacrifices for Patroclus' burial (something that was not regarded as very humane, even back then.) He disgraces Hector by dragging his corpse around. He does asshole things, but I have a weird soft spot for him so I just. Can't put him on the same level as Jason or Agamemnon.

AGAMEMNON: The mythic bitch. Where do I even start with this man. I'd say with him sacrificing his daughter without even consulting his wife. That seems like a good start. Then also the whole abduction and rape thing, but not because that's the unacceptable part (it is, but they kinda all do it, so it doesn't set him apart), but because he refuses Chryseis' ransom (which was a big Greek no-no. You have to accept ransoms, which is why Achilles is less of an ass because he does accept Priam's ransom for Hector's body). Then there's the way he still refuses to give the girl back despite it causing a plague. And he's just overall a terrible leader, a terrible king, and a terrible husband. Clytemnestra was right to kill him. He's a complete bitch. But the only thing that can save him from winning top bitch in my opinion is that he does have a blood curse, so it's "not his fault"

ORPHEUS: I can't think of a single thing he did wrong except piss readers off by looking back. I forgive him, he did it out of love for his wife. He is a good man and the only reason I included him is because I was out of wildly known Greek heroes

CADMUS: Maybe less known? He's Dionysus' grandfather. But he causes his daughter (Dionysus' aunt) to kill her own son because he refuses to believe Dionysus is a god. He also killed Ares' snakes which angers the god. But overall, he doesn't do anything that terrible, I guess?

So if I were to rank these assholes from most to least, in my biased opinion of course, it's Jason, Agamemnon, Herakles, Theseus, Achilles, Perseus, Odysseus, Cadmus, Orpheus.

I'm still feral, so please pick one

#Hi here are my final thoughts #And some reasons why everyone on his list is an asshole #Except Orpheus. I legit can't think of a single thing he did wrong #but for everyone asking why I added a certain hero #here are your answers!

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sammysdewysensitiveeyes · 3 years ago

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Maximus if you are still accepting ! The problematic face who brought us together!

give me a character and I'll answer

do I like them: I love that horrid little shit

5 good qualities:

Does Max even have 5 separate good qualities? Hmm......

1. Brilliant - Max is obviously a genius, and will whip up amazing machines to save the day......if he feels like it.

2. Imaginative - this goes hand-in-hand with brilliance, but Max comes up with out-of-the-box solutions, and dreams up machines no one else could even imagine.

3. Witty - especially in Soule's Inhumans and Ewing's Royals, the most recent Maximus characterization is this very sarcastic, witty person who is very fun and entertaining to read, and honestly kinda charismatic, even if he's a complete bastard.

4. Determination - you've really got to admire how Max just keeps reaching for that crown, not matter how many times he gets slapped down.

5. He loves his family - despite all the torture, mind-control, attempts to kill them and general fuckery, I do think that Maximus, on some level, does kinda love his family in a very twisted way. I also think he wants what's best for Attilan (or at least he believes he does), as he's been willing to help the Royal family in a lot of recent stories.

3 bad qualities:

Gosh, only three?

1. Ruthless - Max will do anything for power, including holding his family hostage, selling half his people to the Kree, murder, mayhem, torture, all sorts of awful shit. All that matters is the glory of King Maximus!

2. Cruel and vindictive - in contrast to Black Bolt's constant mercy, Maximus hurts Black Bolt every time he has a chance and gets a tiny bit of power over him. He's, uh.....not a very good brother. He also goes out of his way to hurt other family members, and generally anyone who pisses him off.

3. That whole thing with Medusa is creepy and gross, and I'm glad that recent writing has had Max completely back off on any romantic interest in her. Now he's just a power-hungry, all-purpose jerk.

favourite episode/etc:

-Inhumans: Right of Birth has a more sympathetic Maximus, who befriends an old man (that unfortunately ends badly), and who is very clearly mentally ill. Not just old-school megalomaniacal mentally ill, but actual hallucinations, and showing how he suffers from his illness.

-Inhumans limited series by Paul Jenkins - a Maximus who is both horrible and sympathetic, and very fun to read.

-Silent War - magnificent bastard sneaky plotting Maximus.

-War of Kings/Realm of Kings - goofy mechanic Maximus, who talks to Groot and builds weapons of mass destruction and is almost wholesome, if not for the weapons of mass destruction thing. Starts the trend of Maximus being....not exactly a good guy, but someone who is willing to help the family in his own way, even if you can't trust him at all.

Future Foundation - Maximus is freed from his cell by Ahura, raids the fridge, wears a robot's skin, helps build a portal and gets shrunk and stuck in a jar. It's very entertaining.

Inhumanity/New Avengers/Time Runs Out - Maximus runs around doing secret sneaky missions with Black Bolt, then inevitably back-stabs him and runs off to join Thanos' Cabal.

Soule's Inhumans - chaotic Maximus holds Black Bolt hostage, runs around with Triton, the Unspoken and Lineage, builds a giant robot with Kludge. He came out to attack people, and he is honestly having such a good time right now.

Inhumans: Once and Future Kings - baby Max who is less terrible than usual, and who at one point absorbs some of Spiderman's psyche and becomes extremely protective of Aunt May.

Ewing's Royals - some actual great development and almost a little hint of redemption, as Maximus is revealed to be receiving visions from his future self, and seeks to prevent a horrible future for his people. He also seems to have lost some of his mental illness by the end, an interesting future development that gets completely squandered by Cates' shitty Death of Inhumans. But don't worry, he's still a terrible person.

otp: Someone who can handle his bullshit, ideally someone as awful as Max himself. Maybe Max/Black Swan, they seemed flirty in New Avengers. I've read some fic with Max/Namor, and while I think Namor is much better than Maximus, I can enjoy this as an AU pairing.

brotp: Max and Groot, Max and Kludge:

ot3: No idea, really.

notp: Max/Medusa or Max/Crystal

best quote: There are so many, he gives great speeches in Silent War, and is incredibly witty in a lot of the newer stuff. But for now, I'll go with: “God is dead, fellow Inhumans! God remains dead! And we have killed him! Is not the greatness of this deed too great even for us? Yes! You’re right! Why stop now? Let’s steal God’s car!”

head canon:

-A few early stories have suggested that Maximus is faking mental illness to get out of trouble, but I think he is legitimately mentally ill. I also think he was already somewhat unstable before Black Bolt rattles his brain, and that just brought his existing illness to the forefront.

-I don't think Maximus ever truly loved or even sexually desired Medusa. She was always just a shiny toy to take away from Black Bolt. As soon as Medusa and Black Bolt are separated in the comics, Max quickly loses any interest in her.

-Sometimes Max makes little inventions for the family, little toys for the kids, and no one can figure out whether they are dangerous or not, so they just get shoved into the Chamber of Devices with the other dangerous stuff. He's made a couple of point-and-click adventure games for the kids that Ahura has secretly tried to play, but the logic of gameplay makes no sense.

-I think Max is genuinely fond of Ahura, he loves that Ahura was thought to be "crazy" like him, and probably wants to win Ahura away from Black Bolt. "See? Your father mistreats us both, you should love me, your wonderful favorite uncle!"

-Like Toad, I think Max enjoys video games. In fact, he's probably become one of Toad's voice chat online friends. Black Bolt lets him do it, because anything to keep Max occupied and out of trouble.

-I either head-canon Max as being completely asexual, just not interested at all, or pansexual and up for anything, I can't decide.

#maximus boltagon

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you-show-me-love · 3 years ago

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i would honestly love to hear to talk about these characters all day long! you have such insight & your formatting is so sick. so i'm sending you more <3 (if you so desire): mandy and/or fiona

Tbh I am honored and ilysm for indulging me ❤

Mandy "Medusa" Milkovich

How I feel about this character: Mandy Mandy Mandy. She's a tragedy in a sea of tragic characters and manages to stand out. She has similar characteristics to Mickey: loyal and loving with a tendency to put a Gallagher on a pedistal, but where Mickey overcame a lot of his tragic beginnings with the support of Ian (or at least the illusion of Ian's support but thats a whole other thing) Mandy didn't have anybody in the end. I feel a bit too much for Mandy if I'm honest.

All the people I ship romantically with this character: As weird as it is I'd say Ian. And this would be an entirely one sided romance obviously like it was in season one but he was the closest thing to a good fit for her. If Ian's story had him stuck deep in the closet for more of the show this would have been the best pairing.

My non-romantic OTP for this character: Mandy and Debbie! Young Debbie looking up to Mandy because she acts like an actual sister where as her actual sister has taken the role of her mother. I adore the way Debbie looked up to her but also how Mandy never seemed annoyed by Debbie's problems or questions about life. I think they both needed a sister.

My unpopular opinion about this character: Lip and Mandy was never good. I think Mandy globbed onto Lip because her and Ian could never have a true romantic relationship. She chose the next best thing and just like Mandy and Mickey, Ian and Lip do share some similar qualities that attract Mandy to them, but in the end Mandy was a placeholder for Karen and no matter what she did for Lip she was never going to rise above that. So yeah sorry MandyxLip shippers its not for me.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon.: that she was there for Mickey and Ian's wedding! I wanted her there to see her best friend and brother get married not only because she would be so happy but because I think she'd be a little sad it wasn't her. I'd also want her to see Lip and Tami and Fred and understand her vision of his future wasn't ever in the cards. The episode was already emotional yeah but Mandy added to the mix would have been the perfect angst.

Fiona "Fight Me" Gallagher

How I feel about this character: Fiona carried so much of the show. She manages to rise and fall so often during the series and yet you still feel for her time after time. The fact that she remains sympathetic and you still root for her to crawl back out of the hole she's fallen in speaks to how much she deserves. I think she's a great example of struggle and how its not always in your face but its there in the background of every choice you make. When she fell she fell hard, but Fiona's never down for long.

All the people I ship romantically with this character: JimmySteve deserves some recognition for getting down in the trenches with her for the sake of their relationship. He's no saint and he himself ultimately couldn't adjust but he was willing to try. Everyone else (and actually also JimmySteve) can fuck off for trying to pull her off her life path because they thought they knew better.

My non-romantic OTP for this character: V and Kev both together and separate. I loved the sibling vibe Kev and Fiona had. It was a sibling relationship where she didn't have to take care of the person. V and Fiona is one of the few relationships we see that were simply friends with nothing holding them together but themselves. And the fact we got to seen them drift apart as their lives changed and their efforts to stay close weren't their priority, it was so organic that even though it was sad I appreciated it.

My unpopular opinion about this character: okay Fiona is great we all agree but the girl could have settled down just a bit. She's ambitious to a fault and the gambling she did with those ambitions put the whole family at risk. If homegirl could have just set herself a realistic goal of a full time job with benefits (even if it was just selling cups) there would have been a ripple affect of positive outcomes. I love that she never settled and always wanted more but I hated it at the same time.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon.: Okay this one maybe could go under unpopular opinion but I wish Fiona had had the baby instead of an abortion. I think it would have been an interesting turn for the character. How would she treat her own child in comparison to her siblings? What would she prioritize? How would she handle the responsibility of another 18 years of putting herself to the side? It would have been an interesting shift in her life that I would have loved to see play out.

#shameless #mandy milkovich #fiona gallagher #ask #I'm in deep #i love character deep dives

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petitprincess1 · 3 years ago

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Villainous reminds me of Zack Snyder's Filmography for some reason. By turning Villainous from episodic(don't worry I know the orientation shorts were part of the 'episodic era') to serial, Alan says 'his super cool and super OP Villain OC' is the Big Bad Evil Guy of all of Cartoon Network and also has his fingers Star Wars. I LOATH IT. Alan wants to write this story but doesn't know how to actually make it fun beyond he he angry all-powerful evil guy.

Not to sure what you meant by "and has his fingers Star Wars", but I absolutely agree.

And, don't get me wrong, it's not impossible to make an all-powerful character likable....just gotta give them a personality beyond they evil. Look at characters like Bill Cipher, Thanos, or Hades (Disney's Hercules). They're really well-known and well-loved, not only for having somewhat "understandable" reasons for their actions, but they also are more than just simply being evil and nasty.

Plus, they took their enemies seriously, especially Thanos. Hell, he even respected them in his own messed up way, even consoling Wanda just to bring Vision back to life and kill him again. That is more twisted than BH doing anything, honestly. Not to say they need sympathetic reasons, Bill Cipher literally created Weirdmageddon just to have a party or Hades wanted to rule Mount Olympus because he was tired of being around dead people. (Yeah, Ik, he was screwed over in the mythology, but we're just referring to the Disney version.)

Black Hat will do anything simply because it's evil. Sometimes he'll find it funny, but he's not played as if he's a comedic character. Not anymore, at least.

Like when he was literally having his employees not giving a crap about the commercial as they played with Medusa Device, even ignoring his own presence as they messed with it. Heck, in the same episode, Flug purposely made BH's first statue look all grumpy, just to have BH say he doesn't look like that while copying a newspaper in the background. Or Flug covering for BH ditching an Orientation by saying he's doing "evil things", only for him to be playing golf with a cup like the old man he is.

Now, he's just sexy and evil. He barely moves and is rarely with the three stooges anymore. It just sucks. All that personality just gone. Hell, the dude has to boil puppies for fun, when we know he does other things. I just wish we could go back to that Grunkle Stan-esque Black Hat. Where he felt like he was an active member in that manor.

#villainous #unpopular opinion #villainos #villanos #black hat #villainous black hat #ask answered

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i-ntrmission · 3 years ago

Text

Nine (Van McCann)

Just a silly little fic where Van is sporadic regular at a coffee shop.

Part 1 (4.3k)

They say bad things happen in threes.

Your phone hadn’t charged overnight, leaving you with 15% battery.

A car ran through a puddle during your walk to work, soaking your legs.

An elderly man held the door of the coffee shop open for you, gesturing with a newspaper for you to go ahead, and a smile that you couldn’t help but reciprocate, until a busy mum storms out from the shop knocking into you and spilling fresh coffee down your jacket.

“Tough morning, eh?” Your co-worker, and resident barista genius, Toby comments with a chuckle while you stomped around the counter. Having seen what just happened, and taking in your soaked tights.

Julia, resident window art and slogan genius, glancing around from the till with a sympathetic pout while you roll your eyes at Toby, pushing on the staff door.

“Oh, leave off Tobes - leave her be. That was tragic, babe. Spare tights in my bag, help yourself.” She says before turning back to the line of customers.

“Cheers, Julia.” You sigh in relief while heading into the back, Toby’s dry chuckles and singsong of ‘Happy Friday!’ following you.

Once you have on dry tights, cleaned what you can from your jacket (thankfully it was leather), and hunted down a spare charger for your phone, you grab your apron and head back out.

By some grace of god, you had a later shift for today, meaning you missed the usual breakfast run full of impatient office employees, half asleep students, pass remarkable construction workers - thankful, with the way your morning had went you wouldn’t have been fit for dealing with that kind of stress this morning. Now in the clear for the easy hours before lunch.

“There she is,” Toby, a lazy grin when you re-emerge, Julia leaning on the counter beside him sipping from a mug, basking in the post breakfast rush comedown. “Here ya go, looks like you need it.” He slides a takeaway cup over to you, and you all too eagerly take a sip. Caffeine can nearly always fix anything, especially a bad morning.

Cinnamon caramel macchiato, a hum of appreciation and a drawn out ‘thank you.” He only chuckles out a ‘no bother’, picking up his tea. You had always found it ironic that someone who despised the taste and smell of coffee worked in a coffee shop, and on top of that made really fucking good coffee.

“So what’s happened you? Apparent from the coffee incident obvs, looked like you wanted to throttle all us when you came in,” Julia asks, brown eyes glancing over you as she takes another sip from her mug.

“Nah, she just always looks like that,” Toby says, a teasing grin. You just roll your eyes, it was true that your resting bitch face was Medusa level.

A sigh, taking another mouthful of your coffee and picking up a basin to start clearing the tables with while you shrug and launch into the story of your morning.

“Happens in threes, doesn’t it.” Julia comments when you catch them up.

"Well, that's my three strikes done for the day, thank fuck,” you shrug. She frowns at that.

"Touch wood."

"What?"

"You jinxed it saying that, need to touch wood for good luck!" Appalled that you never heard of the superstition at question.

Rolling your eyes, a huff as you walk away to start cleaning up. “Think I’ll be alright, Jules.” You weren’t superstitious. “Want some salt instead? Throw it over your shoulder!” Toby chuckles.

Julia only elbows him in the side, telling you both to piss off, mumbling something about having to spill salt first before you could do that.

But, maybe there was some truth in her superstitions because no less than ten minutes later, a cup slipped through your fingers smashing on the floor. Cursing yourself and then glancing meekly in her direction, she watched with a raised brow.

“Reckon it’s too late to touch wood?”

After the cup, you break a plate.

After the plate, you stand back to let a toddler and mum pass by you to get to the bathrooms, standing back with a smile - until you knock over a stand of artisan coffee bags.

“Another three down,” Julia mutters with a smirk while stacking clean cups.

“Sure you don’t want that salt?” Toby quips while walking by you as you sweep up spilt coffee beans. You give him the finger behind the dustpan you held, he reaches up as if to scratch at his beard - sliding his middle finger along his cheek, right back at you.

Your bad luck continues. During the lunch rush you manage to burn a granddad’s toasted sandwich, shortchange a regular who worked in the bookies across the street, and upend a student’s iced latte over your top.

You’re hopelessly scrubbing at the stain on your top when Julia walks into the back, grabbing her pack of fags.

“Jesus,” she mumbles, a dumbfounded look at how much you had managed to fuck up today. Completely out of character for you, a perfectionist by nature. “Did ya break a mirror or sommat lately?”

You only sigh and shake your head, “Any significance in the number 9?”

She thinks for a second, then smiles as she pulls a lighter from her jacket pocket. “9 is supposed to be good luck, actually. New beginnings,” she tilts her head, looking at you, “maybe buy a scratch card, or come to the pub quiz tonight!”

You laugh but before you can reply your manager walks in, a empathic glint in her eye. Everyone who worked here adored Carly, the ultimate mother figure. A caring but also a take no shit kind of person.

Your name - as she walks in, “what’s going on, pet? You’re a one man wrecking machine today!”

She tells you to take an early lunch, go home and get changed, clear your head and the come back. You sigh in relief of not having to wear a soggy blouse for the rest of the day. Half way home when you realize you’ve left your phone charging under the counter.

Finding Julia’s cat, Kurt, sitting on the steps to your and Julia’s shared basement flat. He purrs, pushing his head into your hand when you reach down to pick him up. You spend the next half hour sprawled on your bed with Kurt, eating rice crackers and watching “Best of Dean Winchester” complications on YouTube. Self care.

An hour later, when you walk back into the cafè Julia does a double take, stretching her arms wide and tilting her head in a ‘what the fuck!’ manner.

“Yeah? What’s up?” You ask, walking around the counter to pick back up your apron.

“Where’s your phone?! I’ve been texting you! Guess who’s bloody back?” A rush, and she’s all but bouncing on the spot, eyes gleaming with excitement.

You reach under the counter to pick up your phone, holding it up to her. It was still turned off but charged now. Telling her you forgot about it before you left. Not really bothered about her sudden elation, probably just one of her newest little crushes that changed every month. You entertain her, nonetheless.

“Who? Your man from the butchers?” Asking, while tying your apron, she shakes her head, eyes alight.

“Hm, weird uni Tolstoy wannabe?” You guess again, she shakes her head, then adds that he’s not weird just a bit eccentric and there’s nothing wrong with that. You still think the fact that he’s read War and Peace four times, and brags about, is a red flag.

You’re about to suggest the blonde and blue haired girl from the library when she cuts you off. “Anyway it’s nowt to do with me, cmon you know who it is!”

You only stare at her, blinking and out of guesses. She sighs your name is exasperation.

“Christ, you’re hopeless today. It’s only Van fuckin’ McCann, isn’t it!”

Your eyes widen, heart kicking around your ribs and blood pounds a bit harder at mention of his name. A reaction that surprises you.

“Fuck off!” It comes out as an alarmed whisper.

Van McCann had been coming to the coffee shop for three years now. Often showing up for a few days at a time and then seemingly disappearing off the face of the earth.

He had an obsession with the loyalty cards you dished out with the paper cups, nine stamps got a free drink. He never filled one.

He first showed up three summers ago, middle of a heatwave. He was wearing all black, ripped jeans, and a holy jumper. The holes and rips didn’t seem to be a fashion statement, more like he had just worn the clothes to death. He was pale, too pale. Shoulder length hair that definitely hadn’t seen a shower in a couple days, bags under his eyes. Towing along a smaller guy with long hair and a bandana. They looked out of place. A cloud of cigarette smoke lingering around them, underlying weed.

You and Julia had exchanged a glance. “Homeless? Junkies?” She mouthed at you, after they had sat down with their teas and cinnamon buns you had freshly made that morning. You had rolled your eyes, told her to stop being a judgmental prick.

He came back the next morning, on his own. Same jeans but a black T-shirt, and fluffy hair. You had been cleaning tables, observing while Toby served him. He wanted another cinnamon bun, Toby told him he was out of luck, you hadn’t made them that morning. Glancing over his shoulder with interest when Toby had pointed you out as the resident baker.

The third morning he was back again, a Glasvegas T-shirt. Julia told him you loved that band while he was waiting on his coffee. You were putting out fresh cherry and chocolate scones, when he caught your eye.

“Ey, they’re class aren’t they? What’s ya favourite song?”

You always struggled to hold his gaze when he looked at you, that didn’t change with time. Insanely blue eyes framed with lashes that were wasted on him. You shrugged, “probably Lots Sometimes.” And he had broke out into a wide grin, giving you the first glimpse of his slightly crooked bunny teeth.

You had given him the first of many loyalty cards that day, seeing as he had come in for three mornings straight, he pocketed it with a little huff of laughter, novelty.

He didn’t come back for months after that.

You and Julia spent the next few days speculating who he was and where he had gone, passing slow shifts. Toby rolled his eyes at the theories, saying that he most likely found the new Starbucks across town. Julia sighed in disappointment while muttering something about how conglomerate multi nationals were the root of all evil.

However, he turned up again a month or two later. A busy morning, frantic. You hadn’t even had a chance to look up at the next person in line when you heard his voice, “well ‘ello again, Glasvegas.”

And that’s how it went on, the cycle of Van appearing for a little bit then vanishing for longer. Each time he easily became the best part of the long days - banter, shameless flirting, footie talk with Toby, taste testing any and everything you had baked as a trial run, swapping stories, endless loyalty cards.

He always had a strange little smile when you added an fresh coffee cup stamp to the grid, something the general customer didn’t really care about and it was often a surprise when they filled the card up.

He never gave a heads up when he would be leaving again, he simply just disappeared. And you tried to pretend it wasn’t weird that you got a plummeting feeling in your stomach when it came to the day he didn’t show up. Blue eyes, freckles, a contagious laugh. It was all lingering stares, fingers brushing longer than necessary, throwaway salacious comments.

“C’mon babe, you know he’ll be back, quit sulking,” Julia would playfully elbow you when the day came, and you shook your head with snort, “Shut up, M’not sulking.”

You eventually found out he was in a band, and sometime last year he had asked you if you wanted to come to one of his gigs. Well, he had asked the three of you - but Julia was going on holidays that weekend, Toby had a wedding, and when his eyes met yours you had instinctively crafted a lie about going to visit your sister in London. Something Julia gave you shit for for weeks afterward. You didn’t have a sister, and you hated London.

A few weeks after that incident - by then Van was long gone, Julia stormed into the café with an NME magazine in hand, slamming down on the counter, Van’s face filled the cover.

“Fucking hell!” You and Toby had exhaled in near unison.

“So turns out he’s actually proper famous then, eh?” Julia laughed.

“Am I the bad boy of rock, then? Oh mate..” Toby read from the cover, laughing. “And you turned down the chance to be his bands groupie!” He joked, turning to you.

“Here, I thought he wanted us to go watch his shite Arctic Monkeys rip off band play sweaty Whelans okay?!” You defended.

“Do you think we can start a wall of famous regulars now?” Julia changed the subject, taking a fresh scone you were laying out, flicking to the pages of his interview.

“Yeah, Rock’s bad boy Van McCann and Barry from Eastenders. What a lineup...” Toby snorted, going back to stacking coffee beans.

“I mean, Van kind of looks like Hugh Grant... If you squint.” You shrugged.

You and Julia went home and watched countless Catfish and the Bottlemen interviews and live sets, you liked seeing how Van never changed. No matter who he was talking to. Treating everyone like they were an old friend, not someone he had just met 5 minutes ago.

The band seemed to really take off that year, he came back less and less. But he was still the same old Van when he did, success didn’t change him. Then their second album dropped a year ago, and you hadn’t seen him since. You were happy for him, it was obvious that he was living his dream. Eventually, you stopped thinking about him all that much, life moved on.

Now you were looking at a smug Julia, instinctively glancing around the shop while she laughs and tells you he’s long gone.

“Came in literally 5 minutes after you went out, this day is honestly like some weird fever dream.” She tells you, while Toby comes out from the back.

“And she told him you didn’t work here anymore, should have seen the poor lad’s face!” Toby chuckles.

The two of them look at at each other with a groan when you ask why he’d be upset about you not being here anymore.

“I swear to god, if I have to watch the eye fucking over coffee cups for the next few days...” she sighs, an eye roll. “He’s made it obvious he’s fancied you since the first day he walked in, yeah? Give him a chance!”

“Fucking hell, that’s pure bollocks,” exasperated. Met with a disbelieving look, which only brings you further into defensive mode. “Look, you even gave him my number on one of the stupid loyalty cards last time, never even heard from him. Obviously isn’t interested one bit.”

Julia had asked you if she could write your number on his loyalty card last spring. You had only half said yes, half said no. Noncommittal, all she needed to run with it. She handed it back to him without saying anything, only a smug smirk. You pretended you hadn’t sprung for your phone at every notification for the next two weeks in hope of hearing from him, you never did.

Julia - another eye roll, hands in the air, “Dunno, maybe he just lost the card! You just need to stop writing people off before you get to proper know them!”

The rest of the day dragged, but no more bad luck. As if the universe realigned around Van, which probably wasn’t too far from the truth.

By closing time, it’s just you and Toby left to do the clean up and lockup. It’s nearly 9 when you hear him drawl your name, walking into the kitchen and leaning against the doorway.

“Hey, Kiddo...”

“Toby, my love, what have I told you about patronizing me before you ask me for a favour?” Humming while you put cling filmed dough into the fridge for the pecan pie you were planning on making tomorrow morning.

He laughs and walks in, leaning against the counter. “Alright, sorry - princess.”

Shutting the fridge as you turn to face him with an eye roll, wordlessly telling him to go on. He launches into the how he kind of maybe forgot that his anniversary with his fiancée is tomorrow, their usual Italian restaurant they go to every year is fully booked but he knows the chef. Who, as of this morning, promised to do a private dinner for them, if he meets him at half nine and buys him a couple of drinks.

You listen while you clean off the counter tops, shaking your head with a laugh. “Dunno, mate. What’s in it for me? I mean apart from the joy of mopping floors and taking out the bins?”

Playful - a long sigh. “Isn’t the selfless act of helping out a friend in need reward enough?”

“Yeah, but we’d have to be friends first for that wouldn’t we?” You tilt your head.

“God, you’re such a little bitch sometimes, y’know that?” He chuckles, you shrug. “Right, how about I take the bins out and mop the floors all of next week, and I’ll treat ya to a Sunday roast down the pub after we finish Sunday, deal?”

He holds out his hand, eyes narrowing. Pretending to mull it over for a few seconds, you wouldn’t have made a fuss about him asking you to finish up tonight anyway, but he was always too easy to wind up. Eventually you sigh out a “suppose so” and take his hand.

Pulling you into a hug, dragging out a noise that resembles, ‘legend’ while kissing your head.

Once he’s gone, along with the rubbish, locking you in and halfway pulling the shutter down outside, you put on a Richard Ashcroft album and start on the floor.

Crazy world - you’re half singing along to the chorus, and finishing the floor, when you hear a faint noise behind the music. Insistent tapping. Confusion clouding - knowing you were here alone, glancing behind you, your grip tightening on the mop. And you almost jump out of your skin, a shadow in the entrance to the shop.

It’s Van.

He had clearly ducked under the shutter, now outside the door silhouetted by buzz of streetlamps, tapping on the glass. He laughs at your startled expression, holding up his hands and mouthing ‘sorry, sorry!”

Heart - thumping even harder now, lightheaded. Grabbing your keys to unlock the door, and when you’re face to face with him your mouth goes dry.

“Thought you’d gone and left on us, Glasvegas,”

Gaze flickering over you, a smile tugging on his lips. You can tell he’s been drinking, the all too familiar scent of hours spent in the pub lingers, mixed with fresh cigarettes, shrunken pupils and glassy eyes. A wave of trepidation prickles along your arms, drunk men made you nervous.

But - it’s Van, all messy hair, drunk eyes, and a lazy tired kind of grin. Relaxed and happy.

“Nope, still here like always,” releasing a breath you didn’t realise that you had been holding. Focusing on his necklace, sliver glinting under opened shirt buttons. “Heard Julia was messin’ with you earlier, eh?”

“Too good at fuckin’ with us that one,” he laughs, licking his lips. “Had me dead convinced you’d gone.”

Creased blue shirt - sleeves rolled up, the colour only makes his eyes look even more blue, and even more pretty. Finding yourself being increasingly self conscious despite his equally disheveled appearance. Knowing that your foundation was separating, concealer caking, mascara flaking and lipstick long gone. Coffee stains and flour marking your clothes.

“Did you want to come in for a sec?” You manage to ask.

“Can I? Won’t get ya in trouble or anything? Cause yous are closed.”

You laugh, rolling your eyes while beckoning him in. “C’mon, didn’t have you down as someone who follows the rules, McCann. Careful though, floor is still wet.”

“Oh, no, you’re dead right ‘bout that, love. Just I had you down as someone who always follows the rules.” Winking at you as he walks in, commenting how different the place feels at night.

“Anyways,” he turns back to you with a hum of your name, “Sorry that I scared you, don’t want ya to think I’m being weird coming here this late or anything, I was on me way home see, passing by and I found these on the ground outside..”

He holds up a hand, key chain around his finger and a Harley Davidson key ring you immediately recognize as Toby’s.

You cut him off, telling him they’re Toby’s, that he must have dropped them after locking you in earlier, and that he’s a fucking idiot. An entertained smile curving his lips at your mini rant.

“Sorry, been a long day.”

“Yeah, Julia mentioned you’d been having bad luck or sommat, tell me about it?” A hopeful glint in his eye, and you wondered if he had ever been denied anything in his life.

Ending up making him coffee and giving him leftover banana bread while you ran him through the dramatics of your day. He, like Julia, was shocked that you had never heard of the touch wood superstition.

“Sounds like you’ve been through it, love... then I show up and make it worse, eh?” Finishing his cake and his eyes find yours again.

“Yeah, something like that,” a teasing sort of lithe, the more you talked to him the more at ease you felt around him. It’s familiar.

“Alright, alright! See how it is!” His voice raising to a squeak, you laughed.

You wouldn’t let him pay for the coffee and banana bread, saying it was on the house for saving the shop from being robbed. He only shrugs and leans against the counter beside you. “Just means I’m gonna have to buy you one back, doesn’t it.”

“Thanks for the gesture, but I do get free coffee working here, y’know,” you tell him, already hearing Julia’s words about writing people off, but he was only being nice, wasn’t he?

“Fairs, I’ll buy ya one from a different place then, good to try out the competition innit?” Arms crossing while he looks at you, and you shake your head. Your cheeks aching from the permanent smile you had since he walked in, and you knew you’d cringe about that later tonight when you replayed the scene over in your head in bed.

“Only competition round here is Starbucks, and I don’t think Julia would let you step foot in here again if you buy anything from there.”

He laughs at that, telling you he was more thinking of crappy petrol station coffee. Something you scrunch your nose in disgust at, asking him if that’s all your worth to him. Drawing another laugh.

“C’mere I’d rather take you out for a pint, but m’sparing myself from the inevitable rejection and heartbreak,” he laughs, shaking his head. Your teeth sink into your lip, picking at loose skin on your thumb nail, practically hearing Julia screaming at you in your head.

“How long are you back for?” Finding yourself asking, though you never had before. Not something you ever talked about, questioned. He gives you a look, a smirk.

“Never talk about that do we, love?” He echoes your thoughts while digging in his pocket, ridiculously tight skinny jeans, until his pulls out the green little loyalty card. 8 empty stamp grids, his first one filled by Julia today. “But I’m gonna fill one of these eventually! Toby’s bet me a fiver that I won’t until I’m 30.”

You’re half tempted to ask him why he never called, or texted, or did anything with your number on the last card. Instead your mouth curls around telling him that you’d best lock up and get home. You’re knackered. He asks how you’re getting home, telling him you’re walking, that you only live 15 minutes away while he glances outside. Orange glow of streetlamps. It’s nearing 10, autumn weather starting to creep in.

“It’s dark out.” He states the obvious.

“And?”

“Love, I ain’t letting you walk home in the dark alone! Let me walk ya,” Exclaiming, typical Van fashion. Shaking your head, knowing his intentions were good but you were stubborn.

“Who are you, me dad? I’m more than capable of getting myself home, Van.” Teasing but firm, arching a brow at him. He tells you he’ll get you an Uber then, you repeat that it’s only 15 minutes home, that you’re walking. He only stares at you for a second or two, and you can’t hold it. Thankful that he’s obviously drunk and tired, because he gives in.

“Then at least text me when ya get home, yeah?” Curling his fingers for you to give him your phone, something you’re tempted to deny. But finding it endearing that he cares so much. Handing your phone over. He messes up his number twice.

Unexpectedly, he pulls you in for a hug before he leaves. All warm skin, and you realise you wish you could stay here talking shite with him for longer. All night even.

You watch him walk over to the door. “Right, night.. you’ll be here in the morning, yeah?” He glances back.

“Bright and early.” You confirm.

“Any cinnamon buns going?”

“Maybe, if you get in early enough.”

He laughs. “Right, night then. See ya tomorrow, Glasvegas. Text me, don’t forget!” He calls while he walks out and you grab your stuff to follow him out once you set the alarm.

Watching - he pretends to walk down stairs on the other side of the window before ducking under the shutter.

Leaving you to shake your head with an amused laugh. What a fucking day.

#oh hey sometimes i write vanfics when i need to get out of my head #idk prob will add another few parts to this at some pointtt #vanfic #catb fanfic #Van McCann fanfic

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soul-dwelling · 3 years ago

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Was the fact that death was supposedly "threated like a joke" in soul eater a reason for some of its flaws? And I dont mean obvious things like Sid at the beginning basicly being revived and nobody caring about their teacher even blackstar who was later revealed to see him as a father figure, but even things like the Crona subplot, where all the psychotic killing overshadow the theme of lonelines and finding hope and believing in others.

I hadn’t thought that “treating death like a joke” led to flaws in Soul Eater: I thought it was what made the show stand out. As much as I enjoy reading gothic literature, watching horror movies and similar content is more difficult. Soul Eater took such a lighthearted approach to these scary concepts that I think it attracted an audience that otherwise would not be so into the content. If you want people to want to engage with a story about hope and believing in others as overwhelming loneliness and fear, then you need to hook them from the beginning by making something that is simultaneously lighthearted and spooky. If it worked for The Nightmare Before Christmas, it would work here, and borrowing visual elements from the Gorillaz, having Studio BONES animate it, and having music by TM Revolution, Taku Iwasaki, and others is going to hook an audience.

But I also agree with you that “treating death like a joke” undermines moments where you could have the story go in another direction and take things more seriously, not to lead to mood whiplash but to enrich your story by deepening the characterization. You’re right about Black Star: those little bits of information we get about him and Sid help both characters, but the story doesn’t go far enough to make us feel some weight to their relationship, and it doesn’t really complicate Black Star much. We just don’t see Black Star have any reaction at all after Sid died? We didn’t get it in the original manga and the first anime; we don’t get it in NOT, where in that anime Black Star the very next day after Sid is killed is in a fighting competition against Maka. It’s a missed opportunity that suggests that, if you’re reading anything deeper into what Sid means to Black Star, the story itself is going to tell you, no, that’s not true. I think Black Star could have stood to be made a bit more sympathetic and complicated, even as I appreciate that the Book of Eibon arc and his relationship with Kid both help make him more complex.

Crona is a topic I’ll need to approach another time, as there’s a lot the story does well even as it has them back with Medusa and being turned into a new Kishin. I don’t think the swiftness of moving Crona back-and-forth between Medusa and Maka is the fault of “treat death like a joke,” but I do think it originates from the same lack of in-depth exploration that is at the heart of a lot of Ohkubo’s works. For stuff like B Ichi and Soul Eater, I think that’s fine because, as much as I hate appealing to genre as an excuse, these are works of shonen that depend on big ideas, big emotions, and big expressions: nuance is not needed. If you then are going to try to discuss ideas like politics, religion, and power structure, I do think shonen can do that well (Naruto as one example), whereas Fire Force doesn’t seem to want to dig into the ramifications of the very political, religious, and powerful ideas it is addressing. Crona’s story at least seemed sufficient at addressing complicated ideas like trauma, parental abuse, loneliness, and emotional and mental health even through broad actions: if Crona’s disappearance from the DWMA and return as a Kishin prototype is swift, it’s not hard to piece together what would lead Crona back to an abusive parent and how that abusiveness results in monumental problems for everyone else.

[Spoiler below for the current My Hero Academia anime arc.]

(In that regard, Crona’s story is not so different from what Shigaraki is going through in the MLA Arc currently in the My Hero Academia anime. I have my problems with how Shigaraki’s story is handled, but it’s also not that unrealistic given, again, the contexts of cyclical abuse and societal apathy. In a world that depends on Lord Death, it’s not surprising people like Crona as well as the witches like Kim get left on the sidelines; in a world that depends on Pro Heroes like All Might, it’s not surprising someone like Shigaraki gets left in an alley.)

#black star #sid barett #crona #mha spoilers #long post

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gone-series-orchid · 4 years ago

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I know you've said before that you think Caine and Drake are pretty one-dimensional (and I agree completely). I was wondering if there were any other villains that you wish had been explored more instead of giving those two more page time in later books. Or if there were any characters that you thought could have had villainous potential that were unexplored??

wow, interesting question! i think my main problem with caine and drake is that they’re just kind of blandly evil, one-dimensional like you said. i think, ideally, villains should feel like real people.

funnily enough, i think zil probably comes closest to embodying that in this series. he’s mean-spirited from the beginning, but it’s only under lance’s influence (from what i remember) that he becomes a real threat due to his gaining confidence. i think it would have been nice to see more of him in the series—he’s insecure in his role as leader of the human crew, which makes him fallible. he’s also kind of unnerved by lance’s neo-nazism. he’s arguably the most intelligent out of the crew aside from lance. he’s not sympathetic, per se, but he is compelling.

i would’ve liked to see him interact more directly with the protagonists—especially astrid, because i think she should get a chance to one-up him in some way after he was thinking creepy thoughts about her in hunger. also, i think astrid, being the smartie she is, would probably be most likely to try to persuade him to turn over a new leaf—she’s a normal, and a white, aryan-looking (gag) normal at that, which would probably satisfy lance, and she still has distinct power in the fayz. though zil could probably poke a hole in her argument by pointing out that she only really has that power because she’s sam’s girlfriend, which is true. anyway, they could have words about it.

i think zil is compelling because he has the potential to be redeemed. it’s a slight potential, because he’s already done some pretty evil things, but he’s not totally evil—he has to justify the violence he commits in order to accept it, which is more than caine or drake does. we never forget that, at the end of the day, he’s still an insecure, blustering twelve-year-old. he’s an anti-moof bigot, but he could change. i think lance, more than zil, represents total irredeemable evil. he represents what zil could descend into being. he’s the devil on his shoulder (astrid could potentially be the angel if she maybe switched tactics from lawful punishment to direct emotional manipulation).

i’m a sucker for human villains and natural disasters being the principal antagonists, which i think is why the first four books work so well? i think fear and light suffer from the gaiaphage taking control of the narrative, villain-wise, when i think it worked best when used sparingly. gaia is pure evil, nothing more. she’s fun to read about in her own way because she’s so villainously campy, but that’s kind of it. she’s not really interesting, imo.

i think the reason why i harp so much on the insufficient “humanity” of antagonists like caine and drake is because that’s the principal strength of books (lord of the flies, battle royale) in the “kids trapped in place and forced to survive” genre: what do the actions of the characters say about human nature? about society? about morality? in lord of the flies, the message conveyed is ultimately a bleak one: the kids all descend into savagery in one way or another, with the purest one of them all, simon (the jesus figure) being driven insane, and the intellectual (piggy) being murdered. the story is all about “the darkness in the human heart,” to paraphrase the last line of the book.

in battle royale, on the contrary, the message is ultimately one of hope. despite the characters living in a dystopian fascist society that sacrifices one class of students to a killing game, the main character shuya clings to the idea that he and his classmates can figure out an alternate way to survive the titular battle royale aside from murdering each other. his compassionate view of humanity is validated by the pov vignettes given to all his classmates. all of them are given distinct personalities; some are kind, like shuya and his allies noriko and shogo, and some are drake-esque sadists, while the majority fall somewhere in between (my personal favorite characters are the girls that team up with one another in order to protect themselves from possible sexual violence from the boys. they hole up in a lighthouse!). but all are tragic in the sense that they’re children thrust into an unfair and cruel situation. even then, though, the nobility of certain characters shines through.

for instance, there are two girls at the beginning of the game who are best friends and don’t want to kill anyone. they (foolishly or bravely) use a megaphone to call out to the other kids in hiding, asking if they can all band together. shuya and several other characters are tempted, but sadly the girls are both fatally shot soon after their announcement. they die in each other’s arms after affirming their friendship, tears in their eyes. shuya and several other kids are devastated by the girls’ deaths. while some more callous characters deride them as being stupid and naïve, the reader is ultimately meant to mourn their deaths and the lost potential of a class-wide alliance. they know that their enemy isn’t their classmates, but rather the fascist government that makes them kill each other in the first place.

anyway—tangent aside—i think those two aforementioned novels are really solid examples of the genre gone is in. gone has more of superhero vibe to it, given the focus on powers and mutations and paper-thin evil villains, but i almost think the way that’s executed almost detracts against the aforementioned “kids surviving, etc.” genre? like, that’s all about the messiness of morality and human nature and whatnot, and while superhero comics can weave that into their narratives (watchmen, the brat pack) those are usually deconstructions of the genre than straightforward examples of it. the superhero genre is usually morally black-and-white and really action-focused. this is why i think we get the strange tonal mixture of kids reacting realistically to the trauma of starving versus reacting fairly unrealistically when faced with brutal superpowered violence, such as when brianna decapitates drake like it’s nbd. or anything brianna does, really.

there’s a shift from the realistic to the unrealistic that’s fun, but tonally dissonant from each other. so there’s this sort of disconnect, at least for me. i sympathize greatly for astrid when she’s slapped by drake and forced to call little pete a slur, for instance, but how many times does drake or caine murder a kid in cold blood? at some point it gets...idk, old? as the violence gets more cartoony the less it interests me aside from morbid fascination, and there’s just so much of it. it gets desensitizing after a while. i think that’s why, even though i think it’s handled fairly believably in gone, i had a lot more trouble with the monster trilogy’s blend of absurdism (the animorphs-style mutations like dekka turning into a cat woman with medusa hair and another character turning into a praying mantis with super speed, etc.) vs. grimdark realism (ICE forcibly deports a character’s father, terrorist violence is a common theme, the san francisco bridge is destroyed, a baby boy is mutated into a giant fuzzy caterpillar and then gets blown up by the military—like this is budding dystopia-level dark and the narrative doesn’t seem to realize it). it just feels too heavy and too light at the same time. the contrast of tones does a disservice to both of them. idk what i’m saying let’s get back to your actual question lol

as for characters with villainous potential...hmmm. tbh i think astrid has villainous potential? i mean, i like the idea of her moral righteousness escalating in a way that makes her more morally gray. she’d have to probably latch onto more powerful kids in order to have any leverage over sam and the gang, given her powerlessness. maybe she could manipulate orc into being her bodyguard while she plots to usurp sam or something asgjsjk. i think she could be a powerful threat if she wanted to be! it’s fun to ponder. i heard of an au where she joins the human crew that i thought was sort of interesting!

what do you think, @goneseriesanalysis? any villains you wish had been dived into more, and/or characters with villainous potential you think would have been cool to explore?

#gone series #michael grant #the gone series #fayz

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