#also i should be clear that this post is about tos. like it just doesnt apply to aos un the same way. sorry.

[submarinerwrites]

star trek tos is about jim silently asking “would you still love me if i was a worm” and spock silently responding “i would love you even if you were a silicon-based life-form who secretes an unknown corrosive substance capable of killing me. i know that you would love me if i were a gaseous cloud who could not touch you or speak. on my planet we know there will be always be time enough for everything. love knows no physical form, no death, no end. but my soul will always know yours, jim kirk. and that love is as singular as it is irrevocable.”

[3liza]

FAQ:

actually i dont know if these questions are frequently asked because i do not read the notes on posts that blow up as a matter of policy. but if i was coming into this blind, these are the questions that i personally would have about this.

Q: what's the alternative to Honey? i need my treats and deals

A: there are no "alternatives". the Karma extension is the same scam. the Pie extension is the same scam but pretending to be a man-in-the-middle adblocker and also started by the same people who made Honey. just google "[retailer] coupon', you aren't going to do better than the coupons you find that way. do not install coupon extensions or shopping extensions, the ENTIRE BUSINESS MODEL IS A SCAM. any app or browser extension claiming to do what honey does is a scam by design

Q: I don't care about "influencers", they are all evil

A: thats valid. in the context of this case the word "influencer" is applying to a lot of people you would not group with Mr. Beast. honey is stealing referral credits from literally everyone, including you if you just give your friend a DoorDash signup code. if your friend has Honey on their browser, Honey will attempt to hijack the sale/signup during checkout, and you will not get the bonus DoorDash promised you for giving out the signup code. it doesn't matter if youre a professional youtuber or not. also, let's be clear here, your favorite 1000-sub microniche artist cannot make a living any other way anymore. youtube does not pay minimum wage, much less a living wage, unless you get into the upper thirds of viewership by sheer luck. the vast majority of the people acting happy to be there on your screen while you eat cereal are not making ends meet without participating in affiliate marketing

Q: is this actually illegal? are they going to get into trouble?

A: answers to both questions are going to depend on whether anyone goes after them successfully. but if i were a betting man no i would not bet on PayPal Corporation facing any blowback about this whatsoever. im guessing all of this behavior is prominently covered in their TOS which no one reads but everyone agrees to. whether TOSes that no one reads are legally binding or not is a complicated legal question that has only just started to be litigated

Q: what else is going on?

A: the link above will take you to MegaLag's youtube video on this issue, which was released as part 1 of 3. the other videos arent out yet but it also appears Honey has also been running a variation of Yelp Extortion on anyone selling anything (basically a protection racket, Yelp waits for small businesses to get bad reviews [or plants them, its unclear] and then starts calling the business dozens of times a day to "offer" the small business a "membership" which will "allow them to control what appears on their Yelp page". ive worked at two places that were targeted by this one), and also monitoring all shopping carts in every browser where it's installed and stealing employee discount codes and internal-only vendor discount codes and then giving them out to random customers. this has been hinted at but will likely not be addressed until video 2 or 3

Q: why should i care about this when i hate everyone who runs a business of any size, is an influencer, sells stuff online, etc

A: watch the actual video for the explanation but honey is also just hiding coupons from you. i mean it just doesnt work. this is why i never used it. i installed it once, it didnt bring up any coupons i found easily by googling or a newsletter or whatever, and i went "oh this is a scam" and ditched it. it probably worked when it was new, the wedge end of the scams always have to work for a while to get in the door.

and i mean there's "small business owners" and then theres small business owners. i'm a subsistence artist, for a while now i've been studying the youtube economy and cultural shift for artists like myself and concluded i'm going to have to start doing this kind of video stuff to survive. don't make me flash my badge about this, you wont read it anyway, the short version is this referral-hijacking is a way for Actual Evil Megacorporation PayPal to steal money BACK from creators of any size and use everyone who uses Honey as a human battery farm to harvest ad money that you tried to hand to someone else. i dont like that the majority of the subsistence you can even make online is anchored to influencing, referrals, affiliate programs and ads. everyone hates it. no one actually likes Raid Shadow Legends. but you either get paid from advertising or you dont get paid. thats why it matters that PayPal is hijacking affiliate links. it is no different than PayPal walking up and taking the dollar bill you put in the guitar case in front of a busker

Q: how did everyone miss this for so long? A: LinusTechTips apparently knew but didn't bother publicizing it, which is yet another bad look for them. it was apparently "known" iwithin some small online business circles but never blew up for some reason, probably because once you learn anything about how affiliate marketing and ads and clicks and so on actually work, it wouldnt occur to you at all that this was weird, because it's technically not, the entire ad economy works this way basically

if you have the Honey browser extension installed, uninstall it immediately. big big story broke on youtube today strongly indicating that Honey has been massively defrauding basically everyone who does any business with them at every level, including influencers, customers, and actual retailers.

the short version of ONE of the alleged crimes is that they've been hijacking referral links and codes. if you have honey installed on your browser at all, and you use any referral code from anyone, there is a high probability honey will swap out the referral link identifier for their own even if they don't provide a coupon at checkout.

they also are just lying to you, and hiding coupons that very much exist. they're completely fraudulent

paypal bought honey in 2019 for 4 billion, so paypal has been strip mining the influencer economy for 5 years now. the amount of money that's been essentially stolen is unfathomable