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#also he’s responsible for child murder
quibbs126 · 2 years
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Another question similar to one I’ve already said, but why is it that more people tend to forgive Clive (or at least accept that he’s going to change his ways and isn’t pure evil) but not Bronev?
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Prince Rhaegar as a character often gets some deserved criticism - and a lot of underserved hate. And one of the things that I think he unfairly gets blamed for is Elia Martell's tragedy. Elia's death is one of the primary objections people have towards Rhaegar and Lyanna being depicted as a romance, with readers believing that if they were just tragic lovers, then that diminishes Elia's own tragedy.
I...disagree. It is understandable (and honestly right) that readers would rally behind Elia. Not only was she horribly brutalized and murdered, but her children suffered absolutely terrible fates as well.
However, in trying to center Rhaegar and Lyanna's doomed dalliance in this, a lot of readers are missing the answer that has been already provided to us within the narrative. Not only that, but this line of thinking also ignores the key context in which Elia's senseless murder is portrayed.
As far as the text goes, Elia’s death is laid squarely at the feet of Tywin Lannister and his men, Ser Gregor Clegane and Ser Amory Lorch. It's House Lannister's burden to bear.
Doran for one, Elia's brother, directly blames Tywin Lannister:
“You mistake patience for forbearance. I have worked at the downfall of Tywin Lannister since the day they told me of Elia and her children.”
The Princess in the Tower, AFFC
Even Oberyn agrees:
“Dwarf,” said the Red Viper, in a tone grown markedly less cordial, “spare me your Lannister lies. Is it sheep you take us for, or fools? My brother is not a bloodthirsty man, but neither has he been asleep for sixteen years. Jon Arryn came to Sunspear the year after Robert took the throne, and you can be sure that he was questioned closely. Him, and a hundred more. I did not come for some mummer’s show of an inquiry. I came for justice for Elia and her children, and I will have it. Starting with this lummox Gregor Clegane … but not, I think, ending there. Before he dies, the Enormity That Rides will tell me whence came his orders, please assure your lord father of that.” He smiled. “An old septon once claimed I was living proof of the goodness of the gods. Do you know why that is, Imp?”
Tyrion IV, ASOS
“Is that the game we are playing?” Tyrion rubbed at his scarred nose. He had nothing to lose by telling Oberyn the truth. “There was a bear at Harrenhal, and it did kill Ser Amory Lorch.” “How sad for him,” said the Red Viper. “And for you. Do all noseless men lie so badly, I wonder?” “I am not lying. Ser Amory dragged Princess Rhaenys out from under her father’s bed and stabbed her to death. He had some men-at-arms with him, but I do not know their names.” He leaned forward. “It was Ser Gregor Clegane who smashed Prince Aegon’s head against a wall and raped your sister Elia with his blood and brains still on his hands.” “What is this, now? Truth, from a Lannister?” Oberyn smiled coldly. “Your father gave the commands, yes?” “No.” He spoke the lie without hesitation, and never stopped to ask himself why he should. The Dornishman raised one thin black eyebrow. “Such a dutiful son. And such a very feeble lie. It was Lord Tywin who presented my sister’s children to King Robert all wrapped up in crimson Lannister cloaks.”
Tyrion IX, ASOS
“Elia Martell, Princess of Dorne,” the Red Viper hissed. “You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children…“I came to hear you confess.”
Tyrion X, ASOS
Varys and Tyrion both understand that House Martell (but more specifically Doran) hates the Lannisters.
“The Dornishmen thus far have held aloof from these wars. Doran Martell has called his banners, but no more. His hatred for House Lannister is well known, and it is commonly thought he will join Lord Renly. You wish to dissuade him.” “All this is obvious,” said Tyrion. “The only puzzle is what you might have offered for his allegiance. The prince is a sentimental man, and he still mourns his sister Elia and her sweet babe.” “My father once told me that a lord never lets sentiment get in the way of ambition … and it happens we have an empty seat on the small council, now that Lord Janos has taken the black.” “A council seat is not to be despised,” Varys admitted, “yet will it be enough to make a proud man forget his sister’s murder?” “Why forget?” Tyrion smiled. “I’ve promised to deliver his sister’s killers, alive or dead, as he prefers. After the war is done, to be sure.” Varys gave him a shrewd look. “My little birds tell me that Princess Elia cried a … certain name … when they came for her.” “Is a secret still a secret if everyone knows it?” In Casterly Rock, it was common knowledge that Gregor Clegane had killed Elia and her babe. They said he had raped the princess with her son’s blood and brains still on his hands. “This secret is your lord father’s sworn man.” “My father would be the first to tell you that fifty thousand Dornishmen are worth one rabid dog.” Varys stroked a powdered cheek. “And if Prince Doran demands the blood of the lord who gave the command as well as the knight who did the deed …” “Robert Baratheon led the rebellion. All commands came from him, in the end.” “Robert was not at King’s Landing.” “Neither was Doran Martell.”
Tyrion IV, ACOK
Really, all the nobles know where to look at when assigning blame for Elia's murder. Tywin.
“Prince Doran comes at my son’s invitation,” Lord Tywin said calmly, “not only to join in our celebration, but to claim his seat on this council, and the justice Robert denied him for the murder of his sister Elia and her children.” Tyrion watched the faces of the Lords Tyrell, Redwyne, and Rowan, wondering if any of the three would be bold enough to say, “But Lord Tywin, wasn’t it you who presented the bodies to Robert, all wrapped up in Lannister cloaks?” None of them did, but it was there on their faces all the same. Redwyne does not give a fig, he thought, but Rowan looks fit to gag.
Tywin, for the most part, quite shamelessly tries to disassociate himself from his own moral failings; this is nothing new, because he follows this same MO with squarely blaming the Freys for the Red Wedding even though he played an integral part in planning for it.
“Then why did the Mountain kill her?” “Because I did not tell him to spare her. I doubt I mentioned her at all. I had more pressing concerns. Ned Stark’s van was rushing south from the Trident, and I feared it might come to swords between us. And it was in Aerys to murder Jaime, with no more cause than spite. That was the thing I feared most. That, and what Jaime himself might do.” He closed a fist. “Nor did I yet grasp what I had in Gregor Clegane, only that he was huge and terrible in battle. The rape … even you will not accuse me of giving that command, I would hope. Ser Amory was almost as bestial with Rhaenys. I asked him afterward why it had required half a hundred thrusts to kill a girl of … two? Three? He said she’d kicked him and would not stop screaming. If Lorch had half the wits the gods gave a turnip, he would have calmed her with a few sweet words and used a soft silk pillow.” His mouth twisted in distaste. “The blood was in him.”
Tyrion VI, ASOS
“And when Oberyn demands the justice he’s come for?” “I will tell him that Ser Amory Lorch killed Elia and her children,” Lord Tywin said calmly. “So will you, if he asks.” “Ser Amory Lorch is dead,” Tyrion said flatly. “Precisely. Vargo Hoat had Ser Amory torn apart by a bear after the fall of Harrenhal. That ought to be sufficiently grisly to appease even Oberyn Martell.” “You may call that justice …” “It is justice. It was Ser Amory who brought me the girl’s body, if you must know. He found her hiding under her father’s bed, as if she believed Rhaegar could still protect her. Princess Elia and the babe were in the nursery a floor below.”
Tyrion VI, ASOS
Tywin tries to alleviate himself of any responsibility by blaming his men, but the narrative actively calls bullshit on this (through Tywin's own son no less).
So the narrative shows through multiple POVs that Elia's murder is contextualized exclusively as a failing on Tywin Lannister and his men; not only was it a moral failing, but Tyrion also questions if it was politically necessary in the first place. It's also important to note that ASOS is when we really dive into the matter of Elia and her children (mostly through Oberyn), but we also have to remember that this is the same book as the Red Wedding. The Red Wedding, another one of Tywin's senseless massacres that he tries to postulate as politically necessary.
So, we have agreed that the blame and context for Elia's (and her children's) murder is presented through the lens of Tywin as an immoral politician who often makes politically unnecessary moves. But then we ask ourselves, can the responsibility of this tragedy be extended? Well, yes it can. And it has been in the text.
Ser Barristan extends this tragedy beyond Tywin and his men
...to King Robert.
“Prince Rhaegar had two children,” Ser Barristan told him. “Rhaenys was a little girl, Aegon a babe in arms. When Tywin Lannister took King’s Landing, his men killed both of them. He served the bloody bodies up in crimson cloaks, a gift for the new king.” And what did Robert say when he saw them? Did he smile? Barristan Selmy had been badly wounded on the Trident, so he had been spared the sight of Lord Tywin’s gift, but oft he wondered. If I had seen him smile over the red ruins of Rhaegar’s children, no army on this earth could have stopped me from killing him. “I will not suffer the murder of children. Accept that, or I’ll have no part of this.”
The Kingbreaker, ADWD
Ned Stark does as well.
Ned did not feign surprise; Robert’s hatred of the Targaryens was a madness in him. He remembered the angry words they had exchanged when Tywin Lannister had presented Robert with the corpses of Rhaegar’s wife and children as a token of fealty. Ned had named that murder; Robert called it war. When he had protested that the young prince and princess were no more than babes, his new-made king had replied, “I see no babes. Only dragonspawn.” Not even Jon Arryn had been able to calm that storm. Eddard Stark had ridden out that very day in a cold rage, to fight the last battles of the war alone in the south. It had taken another death to reconcile them; Lyanna’s death, and the grief they had shared over her passing.
Eddard II, AGOT
And so does Tywin, who uses Robert's tacit approval as justification for this senseless act.
Lord Tywin stared at him as if he had lost his wits. “You deserve that motley, then. We had come late to Robert’s cause. It was necessary to demonstrate our loyalty. When I laid those bodies before the throne, no man could doubt that we had forsaken House Targaryen forever. And Robert’s relief was palpable. As stupid as he was, even he knew that Rhaegar’s children had to die if his throne was ever to be secure. Yet he saw himself as a hero, and heroes do not kill children.” His father shrugged. “I grant you, it was done too brutally. Elia need not have been harmed at all, that was sheer folly. By herself she was nothing.”
Tyrion VI, ASOS
So if we can't extend the blame to Rhaegar, because the narrative doesn't do so either, what can we hold him responsible for? Let's take a step back and look at Rhaegar's culpability in this whole thing.
Was Rhaegar (and Lyanna) responsible for starting the war that would eventually lead to Elia's murder?
No. GRRM doesn't think so. The war actually started when King Aerys murdered the Lord of Winterfell and his heir, a bunch of other northern nobles, and then called for the heads of Robert Baratheon (Lord of Storm's End) and Ned Stark (the new Lord of Winterfell). Aerys broke the feudal contract, and so Jon Arryn declared war.
I don't think I would have stayed loyal to the Mad King. Do I think they were justified? Yes, and no. [...] There was no doubt that the Mad King was mad. He was paranoid and he was abusing his power. And Westeros has no Magna Carta or anything like that. There was no way to handle this within the rule of law. But was what they do justified? Especially when you consider that it was triggered by a personal grievance. The execution of Ned's father and brother was really a thing that radicalized Ned and put him in opposition to it. Robert was just rolling for a fight and didn't like the fact that he'd lost his girlfriend. So you know, the personal informs the political.
source
Rhaegar and Lyanna's disappearance was merely the spark - it led to a misunderstanding that caused Brandon Stark to ride to Kingslanding. What really caused the war was Aerys' Targaryens subsequent actions as the king. So if we want to blame someone for causing the chain of events that led to Elia's death as well as her children's, the author himself says to blame Aerys; even though I don't think this is right either because we once again stray from the necessary (and sole) context of Elia's murder - Tywin's bloody hands.
Fine. Rhaegar was not responsible for the war. But surely he is responsible for leaving Elia in King's Landing, right in the clutches of Mad King Aerys. Well, this again, is not true. As far as Rhaegar knew, Elia was in Dragonstone with Aegon and Rhaenys where he left them.
As cold winds hammered the city, King Aerys II turned to his pyromancers, charging them to drive the winter off with their magics. Huge green fires burned along the walls of the Red Keep for a moon’s turn. Prince Rhaegar was not in the city to observe them, however. Nor could he be found in Dragonstone with Princess Elia and their young son, Aegon.
“The Year of the False Spring”, The World of Ice and Fire
At some point, Elia was called to King's Landing. And it was Aerys who kept her hostage there as insurance against possible Dornish betrayal (remember, he was paranoid).
Side Note: Aerys kept another important political hostage in King's Landing along with Elia - Jaime Lannister; this is to deter anyone from trying to blame Jaime for doing nothing. He was a teenager and a hostage himself!
“My Sworn Brothers were all away, you see, but Aerys liked to keep me close. I was my father’s son, so he did not trust me. He wanted me where Varys could watch me, day and night. So I heard it all.” He remembered how Rossart’s eyes would shine when he unrolled his maps to show where the substance must be placed. Garigus and Belis were the same. “Rhaegar met Robert on the Trident, and you know what happened there. When the word reached court, Aerys packed the queen off to Dragonstone with Prince Viserys. Princess Elia would have gone as well, but he forbade it. Somehow he had gotten it in his head that Prince Lewyn must have betrayed Rhaegar on the Trident, but he thought he could keep Dorne loyal so long as he kept Elia and Aegon by his side. The traitors want my city, I heard him tell Rossart, but I’ll give them naught but ashes. Let Robert be king over charred bones and cooked meat. The Targaryens never bury their dead, they burn them. Aerys meant to have the greatest funeral pyre of them all. Though if truth be told, I do not believe he truly expected to die. Like Aerion Brightfire before him, Aerys thought the fire would transform him … that he would rise again, reborn as a dragon, and turn all his enemies to ash.
Jaime V, ASOS
Ok, fine. So Rhaegar did not abandon her with Aerys then run off to Lyanna. But he should have done something when he came back, right? Why didn't he leave more Kings Guard with Elia and the children?
Well....this is a war. The knights of the KG are important assets on the battle field. Kings Landing, at the time, was not the most dangerous location. The KG were better off at the Trident, as a victory there would protect those who were left behind in KL.
And it's not that Rhaegar didn't do anything. Beyond going off to lead the battle himself, he tried to make moves that would help those who were back in KL (Elia and the children included).
He floated in heat, in memory. “After dancing griffins lost the Battle of the Bells, Aerys exiled him.” Why am I telling this absurd ugly child? “He had finally realized that Robert was no mere outlaw lord to be crushed at whim, but the greatest threat House Targaryen had faced since Daemon Blackfyre. The king reminded Lewyn Martell gracelessly that he held Elia and sent him to take command of the ten thousand Dornishmen coming up the kingsroad. Jon Darry and Barristan Selmy rode to Stoney Sept to rally what they could of griffins’ men, and Prince Rhaegar returned from the south and persuaded his father to swallow his pride and summon my father. But no raven returned from Casterly Rock, and that made the king even more afraid. He saw traitors everywhere, and Varys was always there to point out any he might have missed. So His Grace commanded his alchemists to place caches of wildfire all over King’s Landing. Beneath Baelor’s Sept and the hovels of Flea Bottom, under stables and storehouses, at all seven gates, even in the cellars of the Red Keep itself.
Jaime V ASOS
And Jaime's POV once again shows us that Rhaegar banked on victory at the Trident, and was fully expecting to come back to KL and amend the fraught political situation.
The day had been windy when he said farewell to Rhaegar, in the yard of the Red Keep. The prince had donned his night-black armor, with the three-headed dragon picked out in rubies on his breastplate. “Your Grace,” Jaime had pleaded, “let Darry stay to guard the king this once, or Ser Barristan. Their cloaks are as white as mine.” Prince Rhaegar shook his head. “My royal sire fears your father more than he does our cousin Robert. He wants you close, so Lord Tywin cannot harm him. I dare not take that crutch away from him at such an hour.” Jaime’s anger had risen up in his throat. “I am not a crutch. I am a knight of the Kingsguard.” “Then guard the king,” Ser Jon Darry snapped at him. “When you donned that cloak, you promised to obey.” Rhaegar had put his hand on Jaime’s shoulder. “When this battle’s done I mean to call a council. Changes will be made. I meant to do it long ago, but … well, it does no good to speak of roads not taken. We shall talk when I return.”
Jaime I, AFFC
So Rhaegar wasn't leaving with no care about what happened back in King's Landing. We don't know what he wanted to do with Aerys, Elia, Lyanna, and the aftermath of the war because he died at the Trident. But we do know that he, at the very least, was planning to do something.
So we can't blame Rhaegar (and Lyanna) for starting the war and we can't blame him either for abandoning Elia in King's Landing with no care about what happens next. So, again, what can we blame him for?
“It's not entirely correct that the Martells stayed out of the war. Rhaegar had Dornish troops with him on the Trident, under the command of Prince Lewyn of the Kingsguard. However, the Dornishmen did not support him as strongly as they might have, in part because of anger at his treatment of Elia, in part because of Prince Doran's innate caution.”
SSM, 09/11/1999
GRRM states that Dorne was angry about Rhaegar's treatment of Elia. What is this treatment, though?
Ned remembered the moment when all the smiles died, when Prince Rhaegar Targaryen urged his horse past his own wife, the Dornish princess Elia Martell, to lay the queen of beauty’s laurel in Lyanna’s lap.
Eddard XV, AGOT
Specifically, Rhaegar riding past Elia to crown Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty. Yes, that is a humiliation. And it's undeniable that no one was happy.
The crowning of the Stark girl, who was by all reports a wild and boyish young thing with none of the Princess Elia’s delicate beauty, could only have been meant to win the allegiance of Winterfell to Prince Rhaegar’s cause…Yet if this were true, why did Lady Lyanna’s brothers seem so distraught at the honor the prince had bestowed upon her? Brandon Stark, the heir to Winterfell, had to be restrained from confronting Rhaegar at what he took as a slight upon his sister’s honor…Eddard Stark, Brandon’s younger brother and a close friend to Lord Robert, was calmer but no more pleased.
“The Year of the False Spring”, The World of Ice and Fire
But, humiliating Elia is not the same thing as being responsible for her death. The narrative never equates these two things in any way. Elia's death is about Tywin's immoral and blood thirsty political actions. It's about Dorne's desire for justice (or is it vengeance?) which they know they will not get from the Lannister regime. House Lannister's downfall in King's Landing will be brought about by Prince Aegon's rise - Aegon who is proclaiming to be the long lost son of Prince Rhaegar, and who is being supported by House Martell as of now.
We can criticize Rhaegar for some things, but Elia's death is surely not one of them.
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navree · 3 months
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i just
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who raised you, sir? why does MAWS slade insist on starting bitch fights with literally ever person he comes across at all times? why is he physically incapable of being polite or even just not being a dick? why is he beefing with someone who looks more like his comics version than he does? i love him.
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martyrbat · 2 years
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ghosts - batman: haunted knight
[ID: A multi panel sequence of Bruce Wayne as a child on Halloween. He's dressed up in a Mask of Zorro costume and is excitedly running down the stairs while holding two swords, calling out for his mother happily. He tells her that he's ready to go trick or treating. Martha Wayne has her hand on his shoulder and is smiling as she tells him, “your costume looks great!” Bruce replies, “Thanks, I made it myself. Alfred sorta helped. Is dad home yet?” Martha draws her hand back hesitantly and says his name. Bruce already knows that that means there's bad news. He tells her, “don't tell me,” before she continues and says his father called. Bruce has his head down, angrily finishing her sentence, “he's gotta work late!” He looks out the window as if his father will appear and says, “It's not fair! He promised he would take me trick or treating!” Martha soothes that she knows as Bruce repeats, “he promised,” to himself disappointedly. She tells him, “But there was an emergency,” which makes Bruce snap, “There's always some emergency!”
Bruce continues to stand in front of the window as Martha looks at him. Bruce announces, “I'm gonna wait for him. Even if it takes all night!” as he tensely clenches the handle of his sword. Martha reaches out for him sadly and suggests, “Bruce, I could take you out myself. Or, we can call some of the other children at school and go out with them.” Bruce, as an adult, somberly says off panel that, “she doesn't know...” as his kid self stares out the window still. His hat casting a small shadow on his face as he tells her, “There are no other kids to call. I have no friends at school.” Martha says his name again but doesn't know how to comfort him. Instead, she just silently places a hand on his shoulder. We see a silhouette from far away of her standing next to him as Bruce waits for his father to eventually come home. END ID]
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dukeofthomas · 2 months
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I will forever maintain that Jason would've been fine and Not a vigilante without Bruce making him Robin
#''bruce never recruited any kids for his mission/war'' falls apart immediately when u consider jason's backstory im ngl#jason todd#my dc posting#his whole character to me is breaking the conventions of the medium#batman#like i hate how ppl treat others like theyre ridiculous when they even dare to critique bruce in any way#i am capable of suspending my disbelief and accepting some things in fiction as okay even if they wouldnt be irl#its the viewers responsibility to meet stories whre theyre at#but its also the story's responsibility to upkeep that yknow?#''child/teen sidekicks are okay n not morally dubious'' okay :D yay :3#then one of them gets brutally murdered by a villain and im like. yeah uhh no. cant do that anymore 👍sorry#''they all became vigilantes on their own bruce couldnt have stopped them'' yall under the impression bruce hates kid heroes n wants them#properly safe n is just doing damage control/harm prevention#when hes more the lines of encouraging them#difference between ''i cant stop u from doing this so ill make it as safe as i can'' and#''im actively going to encourage you to do this dangerous thing''#i have many opinions n im ngl theyre constantly shifting n they depend on a lot#im not gonna hate on lego batman for robin thats a goddamn childrens movie who tf gives a shit#comics are fair game tho. have u seen what gows on in there.#bruce couldve stopped jason from being a vigilante n instead encouraged him is the hill i will fucking die on#the victim blaming of jason has Got to stoppp its the worst thing ever#also just to remind everyone. ''a good soldier''.#wow a character blames themselves for the death of their child and to torture themselves they put the words 'good soldier' on their memorial#anyway if you even dare to think abt the implications ure stupid n#like do u hear urself whattt
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jasontoddenthusiastt · 9 months
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The New Titans #55 (1989)
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Batman (2010-) #641
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Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016-) #6
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Batman and Red Hood (2011-) #20
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Batman (2016-) #138
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They sure do bAT&Tman. They sure as hell do.
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Yet Jason never thought this way about you.
#Don’t you dare kill them with a simple headshot Jason! I have to keep them alive so I can torment them until they wished they were dead#they’ll never use their hands again. this is the superior way#and you should follow in my footsteps as any self-respecting non-criminal vigilante would in order to keep your conscience squeaky clean#also how dare you not be more understanding of the fact that I completely betrayed your trust#and threw your unhealable trauma in your face and shamelessly admitted to it#after I slit your throat in front of the murderer responsible for that same trauma while he laughed in your face a few years back#god you are a terrible son u are so selfish everything I ever said about you while u were dead was true ur being such a burden rn#also I just love how in batman 640 Bruce was going around interrogating Ollie and Clark (ppl who died + came back)#to find a *~rational~* explanation for how Jason was even here#instead of yk. just being glad your child is alive#and when Damian died he does all this shit to Jason to figure *how to* bring Dami back#after he burned his artwork the same way he emptied out Jason’s room#god you flaming turd of a father never change#the fact that lobdell boiled down Jason’s reasoning to ‘he’s the bad guy and you’re the good guy Jason’#already shows we’re starting off on the wrong foot but#Jason coming back to Bruce in every new comic and saying the same ‘I tried it your way. or sucks’ thing is so silly because#it*#he already learned that decades ago#all the way back in batman 424 lol#you’re just. making him. look like an idiot. but yk what maybe that’s still better than the self-deprecating diversion bs#that’s actually convincing more people ‘yay Jason want redemption this is revolutionary & has definitely never been done a billion times b4#and is a step in the *right* direction’#my post
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seaweedstarshine · 4 months
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RIP Krakoa 🌹 I can’t lie I’ve been kinda behind since midway through Fall of X I’m gonna catch up before my first SDCC this summer but I hear Vulcan didn’t see much action anyway. Anyway my hand slipped and I found myself looking into the eyes of my canonically psychotic son the best Summers brother who’s never done anything wrong in his entire life, (he’s done lotsa wrong things but I love him more for it)
#canonically psychotic = he canonically has psychosis. (not in the ableist way in that hes evil. which he is. lemme enjoy problematic rep)#Gabriel Summers#art by seaweed#words by seaweed#X-Men Red#the Gabriel hate during the Krakoa era pffffft. was 100% from ppl who didnt read the Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar Empire#“he attacked Storm” hes also a genocidal dictator who tortures ppl for catharsis. drunkenly coming at Ororo is the least bad thing he did#“he's a douche” mother of all understatements. now get this man back w his boyfriend who he forced to be his best man under pain of death#Gabriel fans LOVE that Ororo beat his ass. he deserved it. it was a fake discourse made up by a certain segment of goddess!Ororo fans#I say as an Ororo fan! Shes my fav A-list x-man🥰 yes Gabe was at a mental low but Ororo didnt know that. that was Scott's responsibility.#psychotic Emperor Vulcan is what we call a problematic mentally ill villain trope. I love him SO much. (okay lets talk)#we don’t know much about his childhood but we do know he spent 2 years in a fugue state after escaping slavers when he was like ten ):#as an “adult”-ish he's uh “mentally” 15 or sumn according to the calculations claimed to him by his hallucination of his actual child self#and apart from THOSE hallucinations. he’s very paranoid to the point of killing his advisors because he becomes convinced-#that they’re plotting to kill him. they aren't. he relies on Calseye to ground him thru his paranoia. and then of course in the Krakoa era#he believes his energy constructs of Petra and Sway who drink with him till he blacks out every single day are real. he isnt consciously#creating them; but he sees them- and bc he’s a godlike mutant his subconscious makes his hallucinations visible. making everyone uncomfy#Charles tries to use telepathy to FORCIBLY reality check him. which of course triggers his trauma. and GABE is punished for it?#(oh plus our finding out Gabe got brain surgery done on him by some gods outside the universe offpanel. he never does well with tampering)#and now the writers who pushed Hickman out (also RIP Sabretooth & the Exiles. RIP Hellions) want us to be SAD Krakoa is gone?#yes Gabriel is the mentally ill villain trope. but Krakoa never cared for mutants who couldn’t fit in. who were traumatized. disabled. etc#Alex OF ALL PEOPLE should understand that. ALEX should’ve been there for Gabriel. (why wasn't he. did he hold a grudge for past torture.)#Alex also w Murder-Enjoying Disorder but it was actually treated as an illness and those in authority presented as wrong for excluding him#instead of helping him. which v flawed but Hellions was one of the best mental illness comics? like Zeb Wells was conscious of the genre#but Gabriel was just… cast out. for panicking when his prime traumatizer Charles invaded his mind. he deserved help too#and all because his family were annoyed at him for drinking all night and throwing up and passing out on the floor? for being delusional?#And like- all of the summers brothers are nd (Scott's brain damage; Alex's dissociative episodes; Gabriel's psychosis)#I have nothing to say about Adam X ((I highly doubt he's neurotypical and/or mentally healthy)) ((nothing to say abt him tho))#and Gabes paranoia is 100% rooted in his issues of being made to feel like an outsider. like YES the obvious MUTANT identity but also#he thinks his father abandoned him to be a slave. he's not Summers enough for Scott. hes not Shi'ar enough for the Shi'ar
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bruciemilf · 1 year
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slides into ur inbox as a tim-liker not to start a fight but to genuinely ask if i could gently change ur mind👀👀 bc tim's not that bad if you'd give him a chance (he is very cringe tho
It's not that I don't like him!! But sometimes it just gets exhausting to see "he suffered so much to keep the big bad bat alive" takes like Alfred wasn't right there
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venti-death-watch · 1 year
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yknow based on freminet’s emphasis on being controlled & the director’s weapon vs making his own decisions, and looking at xiao’s everything, if one of the house of hearth kids is going to betray the fatui/join the traveler i’d kinda expect it to be him
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petrichormore · 8 months
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“q!slime only tried to murder dapper + multiple other eggs because he thought it would bring flippa back to life (due to a reset)” okay 1. that’s some William Afton type reasoning which I think is funny and 2. I don’t see anybody excusing his child murder
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clownprince · 1 year
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"you can't just ignore massive narratively consequential chunks of a characters' story that you don't like or disagree with" actually i can. and i do. and it's very easy ^_^
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linagram · 8 months
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Am I right, or am I right?
If you're wondering why the whole thing looks so weird, its because the original template was probably hand drawn and the boxes were not uniform, so I made a table on PowerPoint and had to make a text box to make the text above fit the squares properly.
There's two Rikus because I couldn't decide which one fit him more and they're both funny so
GOOD JOB YOU GOT ALMOST ALL OF THEM RIGHT
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martyrbat · 10 months
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detective comics #509
[ID: Bruce Wayne sleeping in his penthouse, his eyes squeezed shut as the narration reads, ‘Gordon's strained laugh sounds hollow, but it echos in the Batman's mind... and haunts his dreams...” Bruce awakens to a hand on his shoulder and before he can think, he's twisting it and holding it down. The panel expands, revealing the hand belongs to Alfred as he's almost toppling over! He cries out, “M-master Bruce—my arm!” as Bruce groggily realizes who it is. He lets go at once as Alfred moves to the end of the bed and holds his arm while stammering an apology, “S-sorry, s-sir... Sorry if I startled you.” Bruce looks at him with aghast as he cries out, “My god, Alfred—I almost broke your arm!” Alfred reasons, “You must have been having a nightmare, sir.” as Bruce sits up and puts his face in his hands. He weepily dismisses, “A nightmare—what kind of an excuse is that? Old friend... forgive me...” Alfred reassures, “Nothing to forgive, sir. Just bad nerves, sir.” END ID]
#THIS ONE !!!!#bruce and his neverending guilt complex#just immediately regretful and so apologetic as alfred is quick to reassure and dismiss it#holding his arm because of fucking course it still hurts but when bruce lifts his head he stops ....#always thinking of how he was a caretaker for bruce since he was a small child/infant and how many little things bruce does now will remind#alfred of those days#he likes his grilled cheese q certain way. he cries if he thinks he hurt someone. he blames himself for a lot. he gets bad nightmares#like so much has stayed the same as so much continues to change but the love and care thry have for each other is always there#(<- guy who is always number one in bruce is disabled and needs a caretaker but also in how the people around him know bruce loves and cares#about them. its not about not being loved its about how heavy his love is and how bruce will subconsciously use his love to harm himself#(from blaming himself to his parents murders and jason's future death to something as simple as this and how he'll beat himself up#for hurting alfred and not able to protect him as well from himself)#(like his mental illness is forever using his stupid bleeding heart against himself as a reason for why hes awful)#this is all fully sidetracked im just fucking wired today sorry lol#but while im talking and something more related to the panel itself::#after this line bruce looks up and says ‘the batman suffering from bad nerves? lets hope not. gordon can worry about the election but i#cannot afford to. still its not just the campaign. lately so many other things are pressuring me—mostly as bruce wayne’#and like !!!!#it wasn't about batman! it wasnt about his burdens and responsibilities!! alfred was telling HIM. BRUCE. that its okay#and bruce automatically ‘its not because batman cant behave like this’ like !!!!#batman is the priority in the sense of he thinks he needs it to protect people. even his family even alfred and every single stranger#he won't ever allow himself any grace even while sleeping because batman cannot afford those ‘slips’#just GOD 70s/80s batman makes me insane for forever and ever amen#c: detective comics | i: 509#crypt's panels#bruce wayne#alfred pennyworth#alfred & bruce#‘awake or asleep—it scarcely matters anymore. the nightmare never seems to end.’#<- nightmare bruce tag <333
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Can't wait for the next ep in which my fav fact about Henry comes up which is the fact that he canonically hates his kids and has so for most of their lives lol
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ok so i've decided i love him actually
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futurefind · 10 months
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“  who  did  this  to  you  ?  ”  ( wanna see cyrillo become that kinda quiet-angry that's scary :) wanna see him eerily calm as he gets to work helping with her wounds, so very gentle but gaze so dark and foreboding :) i do :) )
send  “  who  did  this  to  you  ?  ”  for  the  sender  to  find  the  receiver  injured  and  demand  to  know  who  did  it. / accepting // @tvrningout
It's ironic, a small part of her thinks, one that wants to laugh hysterically at it all. At herself.
Here's a gods-know how old— gods-knows how powerful— vampire with words like ice and eyes that promise a fiery hell, and— and she trusts him. Because she always trusts him, so of course she still does now, but—
She still feels safe with him, someone and something who couldn't be more dangerous right now if he tried. Maybe it's because she hasn't seen his rage actualized, yet, and so she can pretend it won't ever be so. That he'll do what she always does and drag himself back, keep himself from doing, until it dims into a simmer and from a simmer into nothing.
And yet—
One regular, human man and—
Her mind goes white.
She feels stupid. Useless.
She feels like a little girl again.
She doesn't remember much, but not because she can't recall what happened. It's because she remembers toomucheverythingallatonce, that it all blends together and it's hard to pick apart individual events. Not without focusing. And she'd rather forget it, instead.
Except—
The raw, familiar hate makes her want to crawl out of her skin and disappear just as much as it did all those years ago. That would've been bad enough on it's own, combined with the sheer terror of one of Those faces recognizing her (she thinks he was the baker's son, or something; they'd blamed her whenever their flour reserves had spoiled). Had been bad enough.
Except—
"—hanging around vampires because they're worse than you? Or—"
She didn't think her stomach could drop even further. That her blood could run so cold with fear and so hot with shame she wasn't sure if she'd freeze to death or boil. It'd be better, if she had.
"Are you trying to kill the Grand Vampire, too?"
Suddenly she was dizzy. Or maybe distant. Maybe both. Wanted to make an endless hole for her to disappear into. Disappeared into herself, instead, as blows broke skin. As hands wrapped around her neck and crushed.
The next thing she knew she was hacking up a lung, some soldiers investigating. She didn't hear what excuses he gave. Didn't care. Just appreciated that they were some free army rookies, or else she wouldn't have been able to scare them into shutting up and forgetting about it.
Doesn't even remember how she had, just knows what fear looks like, and that most don't know there's a difference between her eyes being dark gold or a searing yellow— just that both should be avoided.
Like she should be avoided.
(She thinks she'd said something about not wanting to hurt him, since taking a few hits would be easier to handle than literal murder. Isn't sure, since nothing much mattered once someone was afraid of her. It hadn't been a lie, at least.)
So she keeps her gaze on the floor, as the tempered fury roils around Cyrillo like stormclouds. Not avoiding the risk of him or his rage but herself, wishing petulantly that he hadn't found her.
(...Today? Or ever?)
It would've been better for him, if he hadn't.
The cuts sting, and she feels like crying. Isn't sure if it's the shame or the physical hurt or just the forming bruises around her neck.
Maybe it's just the kindness. She doesn't deserve it, after all. Not the tenderness as he treats the cut on her lip, her tender jaw. The care as he pushes up her shirt just-enough. All without aiming any of his vicious anger at her, or as much as shushing her whenever she flinches reflexively. (Then again, he never had, but usually it's much less than this.)
"...Do you think," she whispers, staring at the patterns in the floor and stopping. Ignores the heat and headache budding behind her eyes, and forces herself to continue. Clenches her hands in her lap, irrelevant to his whisper-light touches as he stitches and wraps.
"Do you think this is a bad idea...?" she almost wants him to ignore her, focus on the what and not the why.
But that would be selfish, and her heart aches, and she can't—
She refuses to hurt him. Let him get hurt because of her.
And she's cursed.
She always has been.
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