#after odysseus gets achilles armour instead of him

[a-waterphoenix]

NO NO NO NO BUT HE LITERALLY DOES AND I’M NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT THETIS TAKING HIM TO SKYROS

In the Iliad, it doesn’t seem like many people actually KNOW Achilles has a choice between fighting and dying a hero or living his days out in obscurity and peace. When Agaemennon sends an envoy to get Achilles back, they not only promise to return Briseis back, NOT ONLY to give him all the riches they’ve been plundering (which includes women cause misogyny), but they ALSO promise to give him rewards AFTER the war:

- “All these things will he give you now down, and if hereafter the gods vouchsafe him to sack the city of Priam, you can come when we Achaeans are dividing the spoil, and load your ship with gold and bronze to your liking. You can take twenty Trojan women, the loveliest after Helen herself. Then, when we reach Achaean Argos, wealthiest of all lands, you shall be his son-in-law, and he will show you like honour with his own dear son Orestes, who is being nurtured in all abundance. Agamemnon has three daughters, Chrysothemis, Laodice, and Iphianassa; you may take the one of your choice, freely and without gifts of wooing, to the house of Peleus; he will add such dower to boot as no man ever yet gave his daughter, and will give you seven well-established cities, Cardamyle, Enope, and Hire where there is grass; holy Pheras and the rich meadows of Anthea; Aepea also, and the vine-clad slopes of Pedasus, all near the sea, and on the borders of sandy Pylos. ”

You don’t promise rewards to someone if that person won’t live to see them, and I doubt that they’re trying to gaslight Achilles into forgetting his imminent death if he returns to being a glorious fighter. In this conversation, Achilles is the only one that knows that this war is, at least materially, worthless. When he’s dead, he will not wear the armour of the countless men he’s slain. When he’s dead, he will not have the countless women from the cities he’s sacked. The only good this war is to him is in terms of gaining glory, and by god has he got that. Prior to Briseis being forcibly taken from him, he is a model warrior. For his skill at battle and his commitment to fighting in the face of impending doom, he is revered by everyone. Greece loves him. Troy fears him. Christ, even the Olympians - not just Gods, Olympians - endorse him. When Agaemennon takes Briseis, it’s the first time he and his reputation are openly insulted. His initial reaction might not be interpreted as too much of an overreaction, especially because a) Agaemennon literally displeased a god and had to pay and b) NO OTHER WARRIOR ever got their women shimmied off to serve someone unless they got defeated and killed, but his reaction to full out refuse Agaemennon’s apology definitely seems to be, especially when Agaemennon is literally bending over backwards to get him back. He elaborates why, in the classic Homer style of “the characters speak their feelings”, which gives some more explanation to why he’s being so stubborn.

“Why, pray, must the Argives needs fight the Trojans? What made the son of Atreus gather the host and bring them? Was it not for the sake of Helen? Are the sons of Atreus the only men in the world who love their wives? Any man of common right feeling will love and cherish her who is his own, as I this woman, with my whole heart, though she was but a fruitling of my spear. Agamemnon has taken her from me; he has played me false; I know him; let him tempt me no further, for he shall not move me.”

He isn’t just mad that Briseis has been taken, or that Agaemennon was such a jerk, or even the slight itself. He is mad, because he has served Agaemennon in a certainly fatal war that he -unlike the men who swore an oath to fight - doesn’t need to be in all for the sake of being a respected hero. He is mad because his father, his country, his SON have been lost to him for eleven years and he will never return to them. He is mad because he willingly chose to die for glory, and during his fight with Agaemennon, his glory did not protect the ones he loved. He isn’t just nursing wounds to his ego - he is questioning his underlying goal to gain a place in history now that he sees how little it actually means for him, and he has come up with an answer:

“If great Neptune vouchsafes me a fair passage, in three days I shall be in Phthia. I have much there that I left behind me when I came here to my sorrow, and I shall bring back still further store of gold, of red copper, of fair women, and of iron, my share of the spoils that we have taken; but one prize, he who gave has insolently taken away”

In the Song Of Achilles, Achilles is still consumed by his (and his mom’s) desire to be revered and celebrated like a god, but in the original Iliad? He wants to go home. Right now, he is cutting his losses to save his life and his own chance at joy because being a hero didn’t help him. And he would have gone home, would have ruled his father’s kingdom, would have married, would have had children, and would have died a peaceful death in bed, if Patroclus hadn’t died.

Patroclus, who he has known from his very boyhood. Patroclus, who has followed Achilles wherever fate takes him. Patroclus, who ran to him weeping like he had never seem when the Greeks where under siege. Patroclus, whose safety he thought was guaranteed by his prayers to the gods who’d always answered him. Patroclus, who should’ve been protected by his armour and his sacrifices. Patroclus, whose corpse came back stripped after a god helped Hector kill him.

When Briseis was taken from him, Achilles realized he was fighting for nothing. When Patroclus was taken from him, Achilles had nothing left to lose.

See if I was Achilles I would have simply chosen to grow old and eat bread with my gay lover instead of going off to war where it was foretold i would die. But that’s just me

[johaerys-writes]

What are your thoughts on Big Ajax?

I love him. It might have a lot to do with my friend Baejax loving him (I feel like she's the resident Ajax fan around here) but through our discussions I really got to appreciate him as well. I feel like he's an underappreciated and often misunderstood character that really deserved better than what he got (he's the one who should have been given Achilles' armour after he died instead of Odysseus, and I'll die on that hill 😤)

I really like that in the Iliad he's described as fierce, powerful and protective, a man of few words but whose words are listened to and respected. I find the fact that he, Achilles and Patroclus grew up together on Pelion in versions of the myth really endearing, and also the fact that he was there in the embassy scene in the Iliad. Achilles was pretty much ready to up and leave Troy until Ajax spoke, and then he seemed to reconsider his stance, which shows that among the Achaeans, Ajax is someone Achilles really trusts. And then when he fights tooth and nail to protect Patroclus' body 😭 this scene always gets me when I reach it during my rereads. Big bro Ajax covering for his younger cousin one last time 🥲

[thechthonicherbalist]

Who is...

Lady Athena?

Lady Athena is a #Hellenic goddess worshiped in Ancient Greece and beyond. Like many of the Ancient Greek Gods, Heroes and Lore, the story of her birth is not quite average. Zeus, mighty ruler of Olympus had received a warning, that one of his sons would take his throne & strip him of his power, as he himself had done with his father Cronos. So like his father, Zeus decided that cannibalism will solve his problem and swallowed his first lover, Metis, a beautiful Okeanide (Daughters of Okeanos and Thetys), while she was pregnant. Instead of bearing him the promised son, a wise girl, with the attire of a warrior was born from Zeus' head. Hephaistos, the disabled god of fire, metallurgy, and crafts came to aid Zeus as a midwife, effectively splitting his head open with an axe, to make way for Zeus' most beloved daughter, Athene, who stepped forth, with eyes of steal and fully armoured. If this is a special benefit of having a divine blacksmith midwife or a side effect of cannibal birth through your father's head is unknown.

("The birth of Athena" - Vase painting from 555 - 550 B.C. by the Phrynos Painter - British Museum, London)

Little Athene however was soon sent to be raised and educated in the arts of war, by the God Triton, alongside of his daughter Pallas, who became her companion (read: potentially wlw lover). Training together, the two girls would fight against each other with sword and shield and both were so skilled in their doing, that Zeus started to worry about his daughter, interfering in their play. This startled Pallas so much that she missed to parry a thrust of Athena's sword and got lethally wounded. According to some interpretations Athena was so devastated about the death of her lover, that she took her name as her own, to immortalize her memory and henceforth was known as Pallas Athena, whereas other interpretations identify Athena as aromantic or asexual.

(1. Contemporary bronze figurine of Athena, taking the fierce stance of a warrior with her iconic Medusa shield, her helmet and spear.) (2. Alternative shield of Athene's sporting the owl emblem, a symbol of her wisdom and crest to the city of Athens.)

Pallas is also synonymous with the word "girl" which goes hand in hand with another epithet of Athene's: Parthenos, meaning "maiden". In other words, Athena was known as the "Girl Athena" or "Maiden Athena", implying that she was rather young. Despite her everlasting young age, Athena became known as the wisest and most skilled warrior. Unlike Ares, God of war, her skills lie particularly with wisdom, protection and defense as well as diplomacy and righteousness, with which she aided many Greek heroes like Hercules, Perseus, Achilles and Odysseus according to Hellenic lore. Being an INFP (MBTI type) myself, and therefore a diplomat, I always admired her for these particular traits and often seek her council, aid and guidance, in order to act thoughtful and not get carried away by heated emotions, especially in the face of conflict and problems. (I'm not always successful, but that's why we ask for help. 😂)

("Athena Protects the young Hero" - Berlin)

Furthermore she is the patron goddess of arts and crafts, specifically those that serve the creation of useful objects and tools, but especially of crafts connected to thread and fabric. Notably she is also known as the Patron of Greece's capital city Athens, who sports an owl emblem in it's crest in her honour. The people of Attica chose her as such, after she gifted them with the invention of the olive tree, rooting the discovery of olives and their products in the hands of Greece, according to their lore. Furthermore she is known as patroness of Sparta, founder of Thebes and in association with the city of Corinth. Later Athena was also associated with Hygieia (goddess of health, cleanliness and hygiene) and the Hippocratic oath, a pledge physicians make before various healing gods to practice medicine and healing in a honourful and ethical way. Therefore Athena is also sometimes depicted with a serpent-staff, like Asclepios.

(Athena as restored by Algardi - Museo nazionale romano di palazzo, Altemps)

Some animals & objects associated with Athene are:

The Owl and Serpent - symbols of wisdom

The Horse - symbol of equestrian skills

The olive tree - symbol of victory

Armour, Helmet, Shield and Spear - symbols of divine authority, protection, wisdom and strategy

Sphinx and Griffins - symbols of power, domestication and taming of the wild spirits, abundance

Well received offering for Athene are:

Food like bread, meat, milk, honey, cakes, barley meal, olive oil, fruit, wine and pure water

Olives and Olive Branches

Flowers, especially white roses

Spices, especially cinnamon

Burning or offering incense

Crystals, amongst others Sodalite, Marble, Shungite, Fluorite, Granite, Amethyst, Dumortierite, a number of quartzes, emeralds and opals

Dedicational work and worship can include:

Studying, reading and educating yourself

Promoting peace and seeking diplomatic solutions and conversations to resolve conflict

Arts and crafts, especially weaving, knitting, crocheting

Learn and practice martial arts

Educating or writing informational works

(Athena with Owl and Shield, Replica)

[littlesparklight]

Apples, Gifts, (no) Options

It was so early it's dark, still, when Paris came back to the camp.

The camp Hektor made them strike for the second time, out here on the other side of the river. The camp he had them strike here despite that Achilles was literally howling for blood, only held back by his lack of armour.

It wasn't until Paris had woken up, cursing the uncomfortable bed and reminded that it was no bed at all, that he'd sat there, staring out into the dark, and wondered what in the curses of the Sun Goddess of the Earth they were doing out here. He'd been uncomfortable at Hektor's pronouncement, but it'd made sense. Somewhat. Enough that he'd shrugged his discomfort off as lingering hurt over Hektor's unfair words while they fought at the wall.

He'd almost stormed off to where Hektor slept, intending to wake him and try to persuade him to break the camp up so they could retreat behind the walls. Knowing that, with Hektor's burning insistence they stay out here, he wouldn't listen, Paris hadn't bothered.

It it was years ago, he might have.

But he was tired, and Hektor had been exhausting to do with the last few days. More than that, but especially the last few days. Now, Paris found his steps turning to where Hektor was laying sprawled on the ground, yet asleep, for it really was early. Paris might not have bothered getting up so early after going back to Troy to get a comfortable couple hours of sleep if there hadn't been both Helen and Hektor's displeasure and words to deal with in such a short span of time, but it had been, and so he'd woken up early enough the camp was quiet and still, the only men moving around the edges to stave off the chances of another night raid.

Poor Rhesus.

Grimacing, Paris stopped by his brother's quiescent body, staring down at him. Kneeled after a couple moments when Hektor didn't stir. Reached out, but his hand hovered between Hektor's shoulder and the unravelling braid he'd messily put his hair into for the night.

In the darkness, it was hard to see anything but stark contrasts; skin that looked pale against his dark hair, the thrust of Hektor's nose against the dark fabric (purple, in the light) of his tunic where Hektor was sleeping with his head resting on his arm. The solid weight of his muscled arm, clutching the blanket he was covered with as if it was a shield, and might protect him the same way. Or perhaps his body was missing the presence of Andromache, clutching the blanket to himself as a replacement for his wife.

"Should I have wanted your future throne, Hektor?" Paris whispered, fingers twitching with the desire to touch, but that would wake Hektor up. "Should I have wanted our father's kingdom instead? Where would that have left you?"

His older brother frowned vaguely, mouth pulling down at the corners. Paris suppressed hysterical laughter that hurt his chest just merely by the way its thwarted vibrations clawed at his chest. Rubbed at his eye with the heel of his hand.

"Oh, I'm sorry for clearly annoying you even while you're asleep, but you must understand - I could have. Lady Hera offered me---" Sighing, Paris bit his lip, then his tongue when that wasn't enough. Swallowed down a throatful of knives. "And you would have chosen Lady Athena. But you can't trick me into thinking that wouldn't have brought war to Troy. Not with what she was offering."

Smothering a sniffle behind his hand, Paris stood up. He'd been tempted, if he was supposed to be honest. Honest like he hadn't been while telling everyone of the Judgement back when he came back to Troy with Helen, then at Menelaos and Odysseus' embassy, because he'd only ever mentioned Aphrodite's gift. It'd served him better, served Aphrodite and him and Helen much better, mentioning only Aphrodite's gift. It wasn't like the other two gifts mattered any more by that point, but briefly, very briefly, he'd almost wanted to give the apple to Hera, hearing what she was offering. But even before hearing what Aphrodite was offering, that desire had already died. He didn't care about any of that.

"Would you have hated me more, or less, blamed me more, or less, if I'd taken your throne, Hektor? Would you have forced us to stay out here tonight, if I had?"

Hektor remained asleep. Paris stood there for several minutes, studying his sleeping brother, to make sure of that. Even the darkness wouldn't be able to hide Hektor's tells if he had woken up at some point during this stupid, meaningless not-conversation. Paris could read him far too well for that, but also - Hektor just wasn't that great at pretence. Even if he'd wanted to try to appear asleep, Paris would have known if he wasn't. Staring hard at the sloping curve of cheek that was pale as lime-washed walls in the dark, at the shadow of eyelashes, laying so sweetly near the top of Hektor's cheeks, Paris ignored how his stomach twisted.

Turned around.

It was better Hektor hadn't heard any of that. What would it change? Absolutely nothing. Perhaps at best he would've gotten another wish for his death to have happened in the past, to have freed them all of his, if not cursed, then be-cursing, existence. And then Hektor could sneer at him when he finally broke and started crying instead of waving the whole thing off, smoothing it over or laughing again. Would tell him he'd never really wa---

"Shit."

Paris had to stop, hands pressed to his face, so he didn't stumble around and trip over someone - Deiphobos, if he was truly unfortunate - as the tears spilled over. He sucked in a couple breaths, pinched the base of his nose, and scrubbed his face.

Walked the rest of the way to where he'd left his terribly inadequate 'bed', armour and weapons with nary a tremble to his mouth and only the drying crust on his cheeks to give him away. Laid down - this was truly an uncomfortable spot to attempt to sleep in - and got another hour and a half of frankly abysmal sleep before Hektor chased them all up.

[godsofhumanity]

BOOK V | HOMER'S ILIAD | LITERATURE REVIEW

SUMMARY: Diomedes is assisted by Athena in massacring the Trojans. His murderous onslaught is challenged by Pandarus and Aeneas, the son of Aphrodite, however, Pandarus is killed and Aeneas injured. Aphrodite rescues Aeneas, and Apollo heals him. Diomedes, at the request of Athena, wounds Aphrodite and forces her from the field. Ares, urged on by Aphrodite and Apollo, rallies the spirit of the Trojans and lays waste to the Achaeans. Hera and Athena rejoin the battle and help Diomedes injure Ares, forcing him as well from the battle.

previous book / all books / next book

ok, not a long analysis at all today because i didn't find this book particularly difficult.. or at least, there wasn't anything really to dissect. instead, i thought i might just share a few of my favourite moments ^-^

so, Book V opens up with Athena helping out Diomedes kill a lot of the Trojans. Homer doesn't take any shortcuts in describing in detail the exact nature of everyone's wounds and how they came to die,, and i think it just makes the scene all the more vivid and engaging to the audience.. you can really imagine what it must have been like in Ancient Greece to be listening as someone recounted the story to you!!

Diomedes is quite an interesting character in my eyes. i'm in the grey about whether i see him as a noble hero or not- on one hand, he fights valiantly and fiercely, but on the other, his hubris seems off the charts, and unsuitable for the likes of a respectable hero..

yet, Athena seems to dote on Diomedes for the majority of the part!

in previous posts, i've talked a LOT about how certain heroes are able to recognise the gods seemingly by their own merit...

in the previous books, there hasn't been any mention of Achilles, Odysseus, or Hector having to have "the veil withdrawn" in order for them to recognise the gods.. they simply do so.. but with Diomedes, Athena explicitly states that she's allowing him to see her:

"... I have withdrawn the veil from your eyes, that you may know gods and men apart. If, then, any other god comes here and offers you battle, do not fight him; but should Zeus' daughter Aphrodite come, strike her with your spear and wound her."

with most other heroes in the Iliad so far, none of the other gods have really had any beef with Athena helping out her boys, but Diomedes gets on a lot of gods' nerves... Aphrodite, Apollo, and Ares are both quite unamused by Diomedes's boldness in daring to challenge them on the field.. and it seemed at the start that even Athena was clear on the fact that Diomedes should not fight any of the gods (except Aphrodite-- and even then, Athena only says to "wound" her, so that she might leave the field).

"And laughter-loving Aphrodite answered: '...The war is no longer one between Trojans and Achaeans, for the Danaans have now taken to fighting with the immortals.'"

"Not one whit did [Diomedes] fear the mighty god, so set was he on killing Aeneas and stripping him of his armour. Thrice did he spring forward with might and main to slay him, and thrice did Apollo beat back his gleaming shield... Apollo shouted to him with an awful voice and said, 'Take heed... and draw off. Think not to match yourself against gods, for men that walk the earth cannot hold their own with the immortals.'"

"Then Phoebus Apollo said to Ares, 'Ares... can you not go to [Diomedes]... and draw him out of the battle? He first went up to [Aphrodite] and wounded her in the hand... and afterwards sprang upon me too, as though he were a god."

even worse to me than simply sparring with the gods, Diomedes verbally criticises Aphrodite... to her face...

"Daughter of Zeus, leave war and battle alone; can you not be contented with beguiling silly women? If you meddle with fighting you will get what will make you shudder at the very name of war."

i'm not a fan of Aphrodite, but i was pretty shocked that Diomedes wasn't punished, or even scolded in any way whatsoever after saying that to a literal goddess,, and in Homer's interpretation, a daughter of Zeus too.

perhaps Athena's idea of nobility and heroism is different to what is generally agreed upon.. after all, in the next scene, Athena demonstrates her own cunning and willingness to bend the rules when she sneakily convinces Zeus that Aphrodite only hurt her hand on a brooch, rather than the truth that she was purposefully speared by Athena's lackey.

anyhow.. another thing i've noticed about the Achaeans' side is that they're very hypocritical. i've already read the book where Hector dies (RIP king), and i remember when i read it being irritated by Athena whining to Zeus about the gods intervening in the fight, and 5 seconds later, she literally goes into the battle herself and takes things into her own hands... anyways.. hypocrisy is an Achaean thing i guess because it happens with Diomedes too:

"My friends, how can we wonder that Hector wields the spear so well? Some god is ever by his side to protect him, and now Ares is with him in the likeness of mortal man. Keep your faces therefore towards the trojans, but give ground backwards, for we dare not fight with gods."

FIRST of all,, did Diomedes forget 5 minutes ago when Athena was literally by his side, spurring him on, and inspiring him to have the skill and spirit to wound not only the Trojans, but a literal goddess?

SECOND of all, what the HELL is Diomedes talking about here when he says he "dares not fight with gods"... 3 seconds ago Diomedes was literally intent on killing Apollo, and if Apollo in his kindness hadn't given Diomedes a warning first, Apollo would surely have crushed him to dust then and there for his hubris. not to mention that literally 10 minutes into the future from this moment, we see Diomedes, racing in his chariot with Athena literally by his side controlling the horses, impaling Ares in the stomach.

screw Diomedes to hell tbh. he's my least favourite character so far. he's even less than Agamemnon in my eyes.

one last thing about Diomedes that i nearly forgot to say.. this line here:

"But Diomedes all undismayed made answer, 'You have missed, not hit, and before you two see the end of this matter one or other of you shall glut tough-shielded Ares with his blood.'"

i love this a line a lot because the moment i read it, it instantly reminded me of a similar line in Shakespeare's Henry IV, Part I when Hotspur prepares to fight Hal, and he says:

"All hot and bleeding will we offer them. / The mailèd Mars shall on his altar sit / Up to the ears in blood." (Henry IV, Part I. Lines 115-117)

i can't help but wonder whether Shakespeare was inspired by this line from the Iliad.. i did some digging, and the first English translation of the Iliad was 1581 by Arthur Hall. Shakespeare published Henry IV, Part I in 1598... so.. idk. is it completely ridiculous to think that the imagery of Ares/Mars dripping head to toe with the blood of his enemies was something unfamiliar to Shakespeare? we already know that he drew inspiration from many previous works, and Shakespeare wasn't a stranger to Greek myths and tragedies...... just something i noticed, and made me excited to read ehehe ^-^

anyhow, my last thing to comment about the book is that i thought it was hilarious when Hera asked Zeus for permission to drive Ares from the battlefield, and Zeus tells her to send Athena because Athena picks on him all the time and she's used to it:

"Set Athene on to him, for she punishes him more often than anyone else does."

Ares doesn't deserve the hate he gets from the gods in the Iliad.. it's so sad, i feel so bad for him. he just wants to have fun and fight everyone, and then Zeus spouts some mean stuff like:

"I hate you worst of all the gods in Olympus, for you are ever fighting and making mischief... still, I cannot let you remain longer in such great pain; you are my own offspring... If, however, you had been the son of any other god, you are so destructive that by this time you should have been lying lower than the Titans."

my heart truly goes out to Ares... he surely cannot be that destructive if he's literally always being attacked/beaten by Athena, and getting trapped in "vessels of bronze" lol.

in any case, that's all from me for now. in the next book, we see a little bit more of my hero Hector, and his awesome wife Andromache, so i hope to have a little more to analyse in the next book :D

[staghunters]

Thoughts on Stephen Fry’s Troy

Sorta review/critique. A thing to keep in mind is that I‘ve not read a direct translation of the Iliad so this really is my first experience of the epic besides general knowledge of it that is present in pop culture and such.

It’s a long one so I’ll put a break here

First off, there’s a little preface, map, olympian family tree, and timeline of the entirety of ancient history. Very nice to include, though I used these very little in my reading. Nontheless they can be useful for people who are very new to mythology and the layout of the ancient world.

I think I read the epilouge section titled myth and reality after the preface. Not sure why they put it in the back, perhaps for spoilers, but it functions good as a disclaimer before stepping into the main story. There is also a list of actors after this, which are again useful but not something I used a lot personally. 

Now for the main story! I’ll not be going over everything, just the things that stood out for me. Again disclaimer that this is the first time I read a version of the fall of Troy, so my impressions may deviate from ‘canon’ but be sure to correct me/add where you like.

I did not know Helena was a daughter of Zeus or that she had any brothers oof. (Arguably the brothers leave the story very early so I don’t think it’s that bad of me).

I like the idea of a lottery to determine who will marry Helena, but also think that Menelaus is an obvious choice. Given that they have lived together and know each other for a long time, they have a good foundation to build a relationship on.

Agamemnon comes across as an honourable man, but does not shy away from showing his emotions. Iphigeneia in Aulis is a touching section where he stalls the sacrifice of his daughter as long as possible and comes with counterarguments to make it not happen. Fry picks the version where Iphigeneia is spared by Artemis, but does not tell where she is taken which is a bit of a shame.

Odysseus is a smart bastard. I like that.

Paris goes from a kind boy to a selfish man, something that is adressed by characters in the story. I would not go as far as to say that he is Bad, but his morals are very grey.

His siblings and Hebe and Priamos are on the contrary quite reasonable the entirety of the story. They try to make things the best for Helena given the circumstances, and stand up to Paris when needed.

Hector is amazing wow.

I think Kassandra is the most present after him, but I’m not sure if I liked the way Fry chose to depict the whole seeing-the-future-but-nobody-listens because it is done quite literally. At key moments Kassandra is there to cry out her observations but is just not adressed by the others around her. It stands in contrast with Laokoon, who is acknowledged but also ignored. I feel like Fry could’ve brought some more creativity in this case. In general Kassandra feels like the odd one out of the Trojan siblings, not really seeming to be one of them.

Kind of continueing on Kassandra, Helenus is briefly mentioned at times and his foretelling of things is even more minimal. It would’ve been an easy step to make some sort of connection between him and Kassandra, but again I’m not sure if that is in the original text.

Achilles and Patroclus are very well done in my opinion. Achilles has his moments of anger and honour, and Patroclus is not a softboy standing on the sidelines. I always thought Patroclus took Achilles’ armour in secret but here he discusses it with Achilles and he agrees to let him borrow it. When Patroclus dies, there is a section of how fierce the battle for his body is, signaling how all the Greeks cared for him.  

Briseis also seems like an addition to Patroclus and Achilles, if that is the correct phrasing. The dynamics they have can make you interpret them as either Pat and Achilles acting like big brothers of Briseis, or a “X has two hands” kind of thing (where they all hold hands). 

Diomedes and Odysseus act like colleagues mostly, frequently going on missions together to get someone or infiltrate Trojan outposts. I thought it odd that when they steal the Palladion, Odysseus suddenly has the desire to kill Dio as to take the honor for himself. It is brushed of by Odysseus as being an influence of the Palladion, but seems more ambiguous in Fry’s wording. Regardless, seemed out of character regarding the bond the two have.

Helena has regrets later of going with Paris. Fry leaves the options open wether she acted under the influence of Aphrodite or if it was her own decision. Aphrodite does pop up at times to force something upon Helena. While not a sympathetic characterisation of the godess, it does serve as an example that the gods generally do not care much for the wellbeing of those involved in their “games”. This is underlined by Fry in regards to Thetis by saying that the gods generally do not feel much empathy for mortals and that Thetis is very much an exception in the case of Achilles.

Thetis is a bit of an overbearing mom in this, but it does not feel wrong per se.

The other gods come on the stage at some moments in the first half. After that Fry draws a line with Zeus further prohibiting them from interfering with the war.

The Trojan Horse has some detail and is not just ships in the vague shape of a horse a la Troy 2004. It’s got colours, expressions,  a very funky horse.

The siege from within is Brutal. Neoptolemos is definitely not his father and much more aggresive. Fry points out moments where some good was done but emphasizes that the party we have been with and somewhat rooting for the past pages is not free of commiting atrocities. Kassandra predicts her own death and Agamemnon’s to him. Fry did make him say that Klytaimnestra would probably understand/be happy for bringing back Kassandra as a slave. All in all adding to the fact that he does not hate his wife like some other adaptations/people like to suggest, but is instead oblivious or just naive for the fact that the sacrifice of Iphigenia harmed their relationship.

The main story ends with the gods being Disgusted by all of it. I’m assuming Fry will save a bit of the return of the Greeks for a book on the Odyssey which is fine I guess but leaves this one a bit open ended. 

Would recommend this if you’ve never read an Iliad story before and want something that provides you with extended information as well as fun facts about the events. It’s a very accesible read despite some of its flaws.

[marvelthalia]

Artemis of Bana-Mighdall: Homeric Hero

Information from an amateur classicist (me).

Ancient Greek heroes (heros) were quite different from what we would call a hero today. Heroes of legend like Achilles, Patroclus and Odysseus, what we would call ‘Homeric Heroes’ all followed a code that would be hard to reconcile with our makers definition of hero, especially the superheroes that we’ve all come to know and love.

Promachoi

Ancient Greeks, like us, valued bravery and courage in their heroes, men (and women) who fought on the frontlines known as promachoi in Greek.

Artemis of course never shied away from a battle, shown in Wonder Woman V5 #54-55 when she leads the Bana army against the Quaraci military. Even against tanks and machine guns she shows no fear.

She enjoys fighting and whilst she puts justice above anything, she loves a righteous war, this is constant across every version of Artemis. She’s always a leading warrior or a general, she leads the Amazon army with skill and she’s not afraid to get into the thick of a battle.

Kleos

Homeric heroes are motivated by the promise of glory (kleos), whether just the acclaim that comes from being a great warrior or from possessing weapons and armours of other great warriors (timê - reward and tropaion - trophy). Now Artemis may not tear valuable armour off the dead bodies of fallen soldiers, nor is kleos her sole motivation but she does fight for her honour and for the respect of her peers. In Rebirth (Red Hood and the Outlaws #8) as a young girl she trained hard in order to become their Champion. She may have been just trying to protect their crumbling city state but she aimed for the position of Bana’s best warrior just as Achilles wanted to be immortalised as The Greatest Hero. In Artemis’ first ever appearance (Wonder Woman V2 #90) she and the Banas are tired of being disrespected by the Themyscirans and decide to compete in a contest in order to earn respect and notoriety on the island. She wins he contest and earns herself the title of Wonder Woman (for 7 short issues).

Xenia

The concept of guest friendship, of being kind to the stranger, welcoming to the foreigner was very important to the Greeks. Violating the pact of Xenia could earn someone a punishment from the King of gods himself, Zeus; like when Trojan Prince Paris stole (in some versions) Helen from her home after being invited to her husband’s house for a meal and the whole of Troy was destroyed as a result.

Artemis tried to be cold but at heart she’s extremely kind. In Rebirth alone there are countless examples like when she taught Bizarro to speak while they were ‘trapped’ by Black Mask (Red Hood and the Outlaws #13); when she let Solitary go instead of killing him like she was ordered to because he had a son he wanted to see (Red Hood and the Outlaws #22 & Red Hood: Outlaw #31); when she helped the resistance in a strange elseworld (Red Hood: Outlaw Annual #3) dimension that she really has no stake in and when she joined the Outlaws in the first place despite claiming to be a loner and really having no reason to stay with a faulty Superman clone and a reserected Robin.

Eusebeia

Respecting the gods which is what Asabia means was extremely important for Greeks, piety and respecting the gods was good morally but it also just meant you wouldn’t incite a god’s wrath and die bringing your whole city down with you. She has been shown to pray and even converse with her gods as heroes often do and especially in times of death or great illness like when Bizarro is on deaths door. She’s also shown to respect gods who others have given up on due to them being abandoned long ago.

(Red Hood and the Outlaws #8)

Artemis also respects her elders and her superiors. In Wonder Woman V2 #54-55 Queen Faruka II orders Artemis into a war despite shooting her hero Atalanta and working with a Quaraci who has in the past been a villain. Artemis fights the war until she realises it’s not a righteous one. She is a soldier but she is only loyal to a fault, she doesn’t follow blindly.

Arete

Greek heroes were obsessed with physical perfection and the idea of a Kalos Thanatos (a beautiful death) which of course meant they had to fight beautifully too. Before a battle warriors would oil their skin, brush their hair and arm themselves with the best armour they could afford (or steal as a trophy). Artemis is known for her iconic long red flowing pony tail which has been present for decades in Wonder Woman comics since her first appearance to her most recent one (even if it is a bit more... shaved now a-days). Achilles’ son Neoptolemus was nick named Pyrrhic which meant ‘red’ in Greek for his red hair. As a point of contrast to the legendary hero’s son, Neoptolemus killed a son in front of his father and then killed the father at a temple altar which was seen as overly brutal and angry (menis) (The Aeniad) whereas Artemis let Willis Todd go so he could have the chance to see his son again (RHATO #31).

Artemis may be a bit more fictional than the Classic Greek myths and also a product of Greek and Egyptian mythology (than again so was Cleopatra) but she still had a lot of similarities to what came before, the Homeric Heroes of Old.

Bonus: Penthesilea

In the Homeric Tradition, Penthesilea ea was an Amazon who with 12 other Amazons, fought for the Trojans against the Greeks. She distinguished herself in battle before being slain by Achilles, the greatest warrior at Troy on either side, upon removing her helmet he fell in love with her and was beside himself that he had killed her. In DC canon she is a Bana-Mighdall Amazon who after she left Themyscira, fought in the Trojan War and was killed by Achilles but it was her (and Antiope’s) sect of renegade Amazons that came to form Bana Mighdall.

(Wonder Woman v2 #33)

Bonus +:

Gay Lovers

Achilles and Patroclus are often seen as lovers due to practices of the time and the fact that Patroclus is the only person other than himself that Achilles cares about in The Iliad. ‘Hetaîros’ /‘Hetaîra’ meaning companion or lover. Achilles refuses to fight after he’s disrespected by they King and as a direct result of his inaction Patroclus dies.

Artemis and Diana had to kill her love Akila after she went crazy and tried to destroy Bana Mighdall and then had to kill her again a year later with Jason and Bizarro for the going to war with Quarac and trying to kill refugees.

Symposium

A Symposia is ritualised eating and drinking that involves discussion, debate and Agon (councel).

Philos

Brotherhood (sisterhood because Amazons), love and friendship.

[godsofhumanity]

TROY: FALL OF A CITY (2018) | REVIEW

aight so i just finished watching Netflix’s Troy: Fall of a City. once again, i’m here to give y’all my two cents about this absolutely heart-wrenching show. spoilers under the cut!!

OVERVIEW: Troy: Fall of a City is an adaption of Homer’s Iliad, the Greek epic that explores the Trojan War. The series covers Paris’ journey as he decides who is the most beautiful from the goddesses Athena, Hera, and Aphrodite, and then follows his fate to find the most beautiful woman on Earth- Helen.

RATING: 9.5/10. i don’t cry when i watch shows or films, but holy shit.. i was moved to almost tears. honestly really really liked this show, it was well done. 100% recommend to anyone 18+ yrs, because some themes are extremely graphic.

WARNING: this show contains depictions of animal mutilation, infanticide, and just general violence and gore.

AVAILABLE ON: netflix

THINGS I LIKED:

- the way most of the characters were portrayed. although the cast wasn’t greek, i still feel like the actors did a marvellous job. it was easy to feel sorry or to hate certain characters.

- storyline flowed really easily. although there were many stories trying to be covered at the same time- Paris, Achilles, Hector, Odysseus, Cassandra, Helen, etc., it didn’t feel forced. even someone who didn’t already know the story could watch this show and be like “oh yeah this makes sense”.

- costuming. i’m not sure how accurate it was, but the sets and the costumes looked amazing. the trojan horse in the last episode in particular was a favourite.

- soundtrack. it matched the show perfectly. it was energetic and then melancholic at all the right times.

- even when characters made really tough and heartbreaking decisions (i’m talking about you @ odysseus), you still felt sorry and sympathetic for them. this might just be me, but as someone who loves both Hector and Achilles, i still couldn’t find it in myself to hate either of them, because both sides of the story were really nicely explained- it didn’t feel biased.

- the heartbreak. the scenes where odysseus kills andromache’s son, when achilles kills hector, hector kills patroclus, and paris kills achilles- these scenes were so moving and sickening at the same time- there were so many emotions at once, it really was insane. few shows portray these scenes as well as they were done in this show.

- cassandra. cassandra didn’t have too much screen time in this show, but i really liked how she was portrayed. they didn’t cover apollo’s involvement with cursing her, but it was so sad to see her warning everyone and everyone (except hector) was like “whateva 4eva”.

- Hector naming his son after a child soldier who died.......... Hector you are so good.. we literally did not deserve you

- i think my favourite characters would have to be: Hector, Andromache, Odysseus, Achilles, Pandarus, Priam & Hecuba. 

THINGS I DIDN’T LIKE:

- portrayal of the gods. for clarity’s sake, they omitted the fact that it was Eris who had begun the battle of the beauties in the first place, and instead made it out to be that Zeus had somehow pitted them against each other so that fate could be fulfilled?? idk. i didn’t like it, it was a little ambiguous.

- going on from the above point, i don’t think any of the gods looked like gods. they looked like regular mortals?? it was kind of a let down.

- Patroclus begging for mercy when Hector killed him???? hello???? he’s a warrior, he should have gone down with dignity.

- related to Patroclus’ death scene- Achilles’ wrath felt unjustified in a way, because Patroclus wore Achilles’ armour, so Hector thought he was killing Achilles. Hector had NO IDEA that it was actually Patroclus, and even when the armour got pulled off he was like “wait what why did u let him do that achilles?” and then Achilles went off the shits about it?? like maybe you should have listened to Patroclus and fought instead of sulking in your tent and then getting angry that your bf was killed by the enemy!!!!!! GRRR!!!! hector ily <3

- i hate helen. this isn’t really something that the show did, i just never liked her and i wanted to say it >:(

- the introduction of the Amazons was a little rushed. they were introduced in the second last episode, and the justification for the Amazonians’ hatred of the Myrmidons was just that Achilles had killed a few of their gals in battle??? that’s literally what happens in a war! people die! idk, it just felt like a poor excuse. also really disliked the Amazon Queen’s haircut. really bad.

- in the beginning episodes, King Priam and Queen Hecuba seem to be at odds with each other over the return of Paris, and they keep talking about how they were cursed by the gods, and that they should forgive themselves or something, but it’s never gone into detail about what exactly it was that they did to get themselves cursed :/