#hektor and paris

[littlesparklight]

Something about how Hektor is the first to stand up for Paris, defending him even not knowing who he is, defending a slave and his right to his victory.

Something about how Hektor, even into the very last, even when he curses Paris' very existence when he's angry, still wants his little brother by his side.

Still wants reconciliation.

(Something, too, about how Paris generally takes Hektor's verbal abuse, only categorically saying he's wrong in the one instance Hektor IS wrong to throw out all those insults...

Who else but the one who first stood up for him should get to say those things?)

[deadbaguette]

Dear children of Priam, were you doomed all along?

[dilfaeneas]

Hecuba children height and age chart at the start of the war

How things stand at the start vs the end of the 10th year. Oof. (Ages/heights not adjusted)

[chelathy]

Drew some of my Illiad faves! So many thoughts so little time to draw them.

Top Row: Helen, Odysseus and Menelaus

Bottom Row: Paris, Hektor and Kassandra

[yourcurrentany]

“Why isn’t there a Trojan war retelling from Hector’s pov?”

A Trojan war retelling from Hector’s pov:

~I hate my brother Paris very much, he is a several pain in the asshole, the only reason I don’t call him a motherfucker is because we share mother and I respect her. He should have fucking died when they abandoned him, little and stupid piece of shit.~

[bugbear55]

Drawtober Day 3: Steampunk AU

With my lovers, the children of Priam

this took forever but i had blasts. and i love how paris and kassandra came out. Sorry hector my boy you look like shit <3

[puspa-san]

An extra page from Oshiete FGO! Ijin to Shinwa no Grand Order manga.

[marsdeathdefiances]

[h0bg0blin-meat]

Paris: She calls me apple the way I be in cider-

Hektor: No.

[littlesparklight]

I've talked about Paris' relationships with his family before, of course, but let's do it again. Mostly because I want to point out that "everybody hates Paris" isn't actually cut and dry or obvious. The relationships on display are complicated, and have more than one side or emotion to them.

(All translations are from Caroline Alexander.)

Book 3 line 40ff: "[...] would that you were never born and died unwed; so I would wish, and it would have been far better than to be as now an outrage and something to be sneered at by others."

This is in direct response to and connected with Paris jumping forward in front of the front lines and then shrinking back among the ranks when Menelaos takes the challenge as a real one/takes the opportunity to make it one. Each of the times Hektor throws out these insults it's about (actual or perceived) failure on Paris' part to act as he should, in the context of martial engagement. As harsh as his words are, this isn't actually about what he thinks or not about Paris, but specifically about his (lack of) actions. And we know Hektor is very, very tied up in expectations of what a man should be doing in regards to combat. (Connected with but also separate from his culture-typical desire for kleos.)

I think this is important, and an important distinction to make, because; line 56~ff: "The Trojans are great cowards; else before now you would have worn a shirt of flying stones for your evils, such things you have done."

This is when Hektor says anything in judgement of what it's all about. The only time. (He, like others, use the "Alexandros, for whose sake this strife arose" elsewhere, but that's more factual than expressing some sort of judgment like above). I've mentioned it before but this statement would include Hektor, too; no one has made Paris give up Helen. Paris does not have the authority or ability to keep Helen without the passive allowance of those around him, as well as the more active back-up of those who have more authority in Troy; his elder brother and the heir to the throne, as well as his father.

Hektor may say this, yet it's in the ninth year of the war and he and Priam both have tacitly allowed Paris to keep Helen.

I don't think one can disregard the fact that Aphrodite has a hand in sanctioning that relationship, but mortals have responsibility as well. And why are they letting him do this, then? Hektor might be angry, but if he truly had no affection for, or connection left to and with his brother, why would he go along with it?

Priam, too, talking to Helen, blames not Helen, and neither does he blame Paris; he very pointedly lays blame on the gods instead. Yes, Paris isn't present and isn't mentioned, but his lack of mention is conspicuous in itself, considering he's talking about blame for the war. Helen didn't exactly sail to Troy by herself; it takes two to tango, as it were, and Priam prefers to put the blame elsewhere entirely.

Line 306~ff: "Listen to me, Trojans and strong-greaved Achaeans. Now I go back again to windswept Troy, since I cannot bear to see with my own eyes my dear son locked in combat with Menelaos loved by Ares."

Priam is quite plain, so I don't think there's really much to say, except to point out that he has no reason to say this for anyone's sake. Who will care for the reason an old man who shouldn't be on the battlefield anyway goes back? But no, he says he loves Paris, and can't bear to watch him be killed. Yes, Priam includes Paris in a group of other sons he's castigating later, but - that's in a group, and he is grieving. Much like Hektor when he's angry, things are said then that, even if at least partially true, are certainly not the whole sentiment.

Let's go back a bit: Line 59ff: "Hektor, since you rebuke me fairly, and not beyond what is fair [...] If you wish for me now to go to war again and do battle[...]"

Watch that first line. It'll be relevant later. But what I want to touch on here is the way Paris phrases the second part. If you wish. Given how he doesn't seem to be very much driven by shame (or duty), I don't think the driving force to him ponying up to suggest the duel here is because he's been shamed by Hektor's words. Seems to me, it's far more about Paris wanting to please Hektor himself, do what he, specifically, wants, and not necessarily what is expected of him.

Another thing I'd like to note that is easy to miss and of course entirely relies on how one wants to interpret it, but Paris doesn't have chest armour for the duel against Menelaos. Lykaon lends him his; the narrative says it "fits him", and sure, there doesn't need to be any warm sentiment between them for someone to lend Paris chest armour to use.

Paris' own armour could just as well have been brought from Troy; every single man there, brother or not, could simply refuse to lend him any, if they so hate him. But Lykaon lets him borrow his.

Book 6 line 521ff: "Strange one, no man who is fair could slight your work in battle, since you are brave; but you hang back by choice and are not willing. And for that I grieve deep in my heart, when I hear insults about you from the Trojans[...]"

Hektor cares about Paris being insulted. Yes, his acknowledging Paris' skill is damning with faint praise because it's followed up by pointing out how unenthusiastic Paris' engagement in combat and the war is. But he goes out of his way to say that he doesn't like it when others (not him?) insult Paris(' martial abilities).

line 526ff: "We will redress these matters later, if ever Zeus grants us to dedicate in our halls a feast bowl of freedom[...]"

Does this sound like a man who has nothing but hate and disgust for his brother? Someone who, while their relationship isn't very good right now (as is the point of what he's saying here), doesn't want it to go back to being better than it now is?

Book 13 line 775ff: "Hektor, since it is your desire to blame the blameless[...]"

Right before this is when Hektor finds Paris on the battlefield, and for the second time (since he does not use the insults he did in Book 3 in Book 6 when he comes to Paris' home) uses the strings of insults he did in Book 3.

This is the only time, Book 6 included, that Paris categorically refuses Hektor rebuking him. Paris might normally let Hektor insult him - but clearly it's because he thinks Hektor, whether he's being too harsh in his phrasing or not, isn't wrong to chew him out. But he's clearly also not afraid to take a stand and just tell Hektor he's wrong, when he is in fact wrong.

Outside the Iliad

It's a bit of a pity we don't get any idea of what the Iliad might have done with Hecuba's thoughts on Paris. We get nothing. Outside of it, pre-war, we of course have the fact that neither Hecuba nor Priam wanted to actually kill Paris, and they both welcome him back despite well knowing the dream omen. (Of course they could assume it's been interpreted wrong, by this point.) Hecuba's grief over her exposed and presumably dead son gets fronted in Euripides' Alexandros, and in the Trojan Women, she fully defends him in the agon against Helen. Sure, we might assume she's putting all the blame on Helen not because she any longer cares about Paris, or to more effectively try to condemn her in front of Menelaos. But I don't think a lack of affection for Paris in the way she chooses to respond is something that can be assumed either.

[yee-art]

Odysseus caught in 4k moment (Awkward)

[kiwikipedia]

Chiron, reading off a piece of paper: The illiad is called the illiad because illium was another name for Troy and “-ad” was a suffix that meant “the story of”

Odysseus: so you’re saying…. the illiad should be called Troy Story?

Hector: Thanks I hate it

Achilles: You gotta friend in horse

Paris, crying: YOU DO NOT HAVE A FRIEND IN HORSE

[lemonadehtwooh]

Romeo team heights! :D

I really like how I did Penth's/Beserker's color palette, I think it contrasts well with her personality and the sort of fire motive in her in-game attacks

Hektor's robotic arm was also really fun to sketch in :3

[yourcurrentany]

Why does every modern AU with Achilles and Patroclus keeps Patroclus alive

I mean, yeah, of course I get why, is your AU and want a happy ending where the gays can live happy together

But it would be good to see a modern AU where Patroclus dies bc he entered Hektor’s garden and he thought Pat was a burglar and shoots him and Achilles sues Hektor but the judge determines Hektor was doing it by self defense and Achilles (with his mom covering his back) breaks in Hektor’s house and kills him

I mean

Edit: and now Achilles is searched by the police and one of the agents in his case are Paris and Paris’s superior is Apollo and when they find Achilles Apollo tells Paris to just shoot at him and Paris shoots at Achilles heel and he tries to go to the hospital but dies from blood lost when he was about to enter

Edit.2: Menelaus saw Patroclus in the ground and tried to take him to the hospital but Pat died half the way

[dailyarturiartfgo]

Can I request a Hektor and Paris doing cute sibling things together?

They need their wholesome discussion after what happened to the city of Troy

[marsdeathdefiances]

Paris: I just ended a five year relationship.

Hektor: Oh my gods, are you okay?

Paris: I’m fine. It wasn’t my relationship.