#after dragging Lilith for something she did when SHE was a kid in a not-ideal situation?!

[sergeantsporks]

Sometimes I remember how everyone acted about Lilith and I get so mad. Lol.

[yetanothergreyjedi]

Left and Returned: Definitely Nothing Wrong

Danny Phantom x Supernatural Crossover

Part 2 Part 3

Ao3 (includes additional notes)

Chapter 4

"I'm sorry I didn't believe you guys about time travel." Dean announces at breakfast. 

"Almost wrote yourself out of existence, didn't you?" Danny guesses. 

"Not exactly… but how? How could you possibly guess that ?"

"You have the look. It's awful. Arguably worse than fighting a potential future evil version of yourself."

Dean thinks about that. He compares this experience to the demon him from the dreamroot thing. "...yeah this was definitely weirder."

Danny shrugs.

"So... how did you end up in a time travel adventure last night? I think if the Trickster came back we'd see some more signs." Sam asks.

"Castiel dropped in, confirmed the apocalypse stuff."

"Then dropped you back in time?"

"Yeah... apparently Mom made a demon deal for Dad's life. It's why..." Dean stopped himself, he barely knew Danny, what was he thinking! 

"I know?" Danny offers, looking between Sam and him.

"Right..." Dean continues. He doesn't think Danny will go all Gordon Walker on them, but if he had all the details... Dean isn't giving all the details. "Castiel also said it was Lillith who broke the seal." 

"He's sure?" Sam asks at the same time Danny asks,

"Lilith is a demon right?"

"Yeah, she's a demon, and I don't think Castiel would tell us if he wasn't sure."

"Any problem if I kill her?" Danny asks. And the quick reaction makes Dean glad he didn't elaborate on Sammy's thing.

"We've been trying." Sam tells him. "If you get the chance, please."

Danny gives a thumbs up. And Dean feels sorry that he has to drop the mood even further. "They're trying to release Lucifer."

"What's a Lucifer?"

"Ha ha." Dean says, it would probably be funny if they had any plan for beating 'a Lucifer'. But Danny... he doesn't look like he's joking. Then Sammy's phone goes off and he leaves Dean to deal with this conversation himself. Traitor.

"Lucifer like, The Devil, Lucifer."

"Oh, a name, got it! You have beef with this guy or something? "

"He's going to try to end the world."

"Think he'll be better, or worse at it than The Pariah?"

"Who's the Pariah?"

"... guy who yoinked a small town off the face of the earth for a week? Has a skeleton army?"

"What?! Kid, are you sure you're not talking about a cartoon or something?!"

"It'd be hard to forget, was around the time Vortex did his thing. Actually a lot of stuff happened then, that year was wild."

"Lucifer will have an army of Demons." Dean said, because if he didn't stay focused he was going to end up following Danny’s rabbit trails till the world ended.

"Yeah, that's not ideal. Freeing a lot of possessed people is a lot harder than wack-a-mole skeleton edition."

"I'm not going to ask." Sam returns to the table. He probably came to the same conclusion about Danny's stories a few months ago. "That was Travis, he wants us to look into something."

"Now?" Danny asks.

"Yeah, there's this guy, Jack Montgomery, has something going on with him."

"Okay, 1 problem." Danny continues.

"What kind of problem?"

"Oh, not a problem for you, Dean. But I have a sister, who has this friend, see. And she spent all of yesterday warding off marked spirits, and he hasn't called her back after playing phone tag all day.

Sam swore. Fumbling to get his phone back out of his pocket. His brother had been a mess yesterday. He'd leave a voicemail, but be in a situation while she called back. He'd gotten a voicemail after the witnesses were released, he'd left a voice-mail then too. Apparently, the loverbirds hadn't actually spoken yet.

"Oooh, Sammy's in the doghouse, huh?"

"Not yet, I'm supposed to drag him home first."

Dean grinned, "Do I get to meet the lovely Lady?" 

"I think you'll have too, though seriously, she'll understand it if this is time sensitive. Mind if I tag along?"

"Not at all, Sammy's a trouble magnet. He could use all the help he could get."

---

"Don't you love when this stuff mean spying on a man in his own home." Danny deadpans. He's not using the binoculars, holding them like they're personally offensive. 

"There are worse parts of the job." Dean reminds him, Jack Montgomery is rummaging through his fridge. "This guy? I mean this guy's boring"

"I don't know, Dean. Travis seemed pretty sure."

"Did he give any indication of what we're supposed to be— oh."

Oh was correct. Dean watched Montgomery  just abandon the leftovers and start in on a pack of ground beef. Raw ground beef.

"I'd say that qualifies as weird." Sam notes. Like that needed to be said.

---

"Thanks for helping out an old man. I'm a little, uh, shorthanded." Travis lifts his cast covered atm and They laugh politely at the bad joke. Then he gets straight to the point, and Dean's glad they're done pretending to catch up. It's awkward with Danny lurking behind them. "You track down Montgomery?"

"Yeah, we found him at his home." Sam tells him.

"And?"

"Well, he had a hell of a case of the munchies, topped off with a burger he forgot to cook."

"That's him alright."

"What's him?"

"Boys, we got a rougarou on our hands."

"A rougarou?" Dean looks to Sam for a convenient monster summary(or movie title, that would work too.). Sam gives him nothing. "Is that made up? That sounds made up."

"They're mean, nasty little suckers. Rotted teeth, wormy skin, the works." Travis tells them.

"Well, that ain't this guy. I mean, he was wearing a cellphone on his belt."

"He'll turn ugly soon enough. They start out human, for all intents and purposes."

"So, what?" Sam asks, "They go through some kind of metamorphosis?"

"Yep, like a maggot turning into a bull fly."

"No need to be cruel." Danny chides. Travis pauses, looks at Danny with an expression thats not quite a sneer. Dean really hopes that's not gonna become a problem.

"They're hungry things.” Trevor continues, ignoring the kid's glare. “First for everything, until they get a taste for human flesh. Once they get a taste they transform. One bite's all it takes. Eyes, teeth, skin; all turns. No going back either. They feed once, they're a monster forever. And our man Jack's headed there on a bullet train."

"Well, how'd you find this guy if he's a walking, talking human?" Dean demands.

"Lets just say it runs in his family."

"You mean, uh..." Sam trails off.

"Killed his daddy back in '78. Son of a bitch mangled 8 bodies before I put him down. Guy used to be a dentist. Cadillac, trophy wife... Little did I know, pregnant trophy wife. She put the boy up for adoption. By the time I found out, he was long gone, lost in the system."

The air in the room changes, this time in a way that's familiar. The unspoken threat looms... 

"You mean to tell me you couldn't find someone?" Sam asks, undeterred. Sam doesn't feel it.

Travis sighs. "I'm not sure I wanted to. The idea of hunting down some poor kid... I don't think I'd have the heart. No. I wanted to wait, make damn sure I had the right man. Apparently, I do."

The air itself has teeth, and breathing takes effort. Travis doesn't notice either. He takes a swig of his beer.

---

Travis might not notice that Danny is friggen weird, but after the comment earlier he does notice that the kid is incredibly uncomfortable. He singles the kid out to prep the flame throwers, not letting him escape with Sam. 

Dean took a chance and elbowed the kid in his side, hard enough to hurt but not hard enough to bruise. Made a face at him and the kid had quit messing with the room's... well, the room's vibes . 

Travis seemed under the impression that Danny was just new to this life, and Dean would prefer to keep it that way.

"So fire, huh?" They'd been subjected to a few stories of past hunts, and the kid had withdrawn more with each of them. Dean wants to change the subject but can't find a natural way to do so.  Better they stay focused on this.

"The only way I found to kill these bastards; deep-fry 'em."

"Well, that's gonna be..." He glanced at the kid. "horrible. Is that what you did to Jack's dad?"

"Uh-huh," Travis starts, and Dean realizes he's  being an idiot. That's just gonna get a more on topic gruesome story, but Sam, best baby brother in the world, saves them. 

He walks through the door with an accusation. "Not wasting any time, are you?" 

"None to waste." Travis informs them. "The guy hulks out, we won't be finding bodies, just remains."

Sam sits down next to the table in a controlled movement. He's forcing himself to act calm. "What if he doesn't hulk out? I did a little homework. Uh, I've been checking out the lore on rougarous."

Danny's head shoots up. It reminds Dean of caged animal seeing possible freedom.

"What? My 30 years of experience not good enough for you?" Travis demands.

"What? No. No, I-I- I just wanted to be prepared. I mean, not that you didn't..."

"Sam loves research. He does. He keeps it under his mattress right next to his KY. It's a sickness." He looks over at Sam, hiding the rescue with some teasing. "It is."

"Look, everything you said checked out, of course, but uh. I found a couple of interesting stories about people who have this rougarou gene or whatever. See, they start to turn, but they never take the final step."

"Really?"

"See, if they never eat human flesh, they don't fully transform." Well, no wonder their monster-adjacent friend is freaked. Maybe he's something similar,  hanging onto his humanity with everything he can? 

"So what? Go vegan, stay human?"

"Basically. Or in this case, eat a lot of raw meat, just not..."

"Right."

"Good on you for the due diligence, Sam." Travis gets up to pace the room. Its unnecessarily dramatic. "But those are fairy tales. Fact is, every rougarou I ever saw or heard of... took that bite."

"Okay, well, that doesn't mean that Jack will." Sam stands too. 

"So what do we do? Sit and hope and wait for a body count?"

"No, we talk to him. Explain what's happening. That way he can fight it."

"Fight it?" Travis laughs. "Are you kidding me? You ever been really hungry? I mean, haven't-eaten-in-days hungry?"

"Yeah." Dean answers, Danny nods too. 

"Yeah. Right then. So somebody slaps a big, juicy sirloin in front of you, you walking away?"

"No," Dean mutters, because he wouldn't.

"Depends.” Danny challenges.” You know what happens if you eat that big hearty meal? If you haven't eaten in days ?"

"Uh, no." Dean was never been allowed to eat what he wants after the few times he'd been starving. 

"You get sick." Sam answers. Ok, that was probably explained to him, he just remembers being hungry and grouchy about it. 

Danny nods, "If you haven't eaten in days, and you have the right information, you eat something small and light that seems unsatisfying until you've gotten it all down.  You don't risk tearing open your stomach lining. And besides! How would you know about rougarou's who don't turn?! People aren't going to announce their fantasies of eating people! They're could be generations who resist and they'd look just like everyone else!"

"And you don't know that they're are." He looks between the two of them. "I'm sorry. I'm sure he's a stand-up guy, but it's pure, base instinct. Everything in nature's gotta eat. You think he can stop himself 'cause he's nice?"

"Coconut milk." Danny declares, and Dean almost laughs. He lets the absurd statement sink in for a moment before he continues. "Coconut milk can be used as a substitute for blood. There are vampires who live off it. They get night jobs, and exist exactly like everyone else. You've had what, twenty years? You've just been waiting for this guy to crack, did you bother to look? Did you ask why a rougarou might crave human flesh? 

“Because when we crave salt, or red meat or whatever, it's usually because the body is lacking in the nutrients it needs! This all might get solved by giving him a vitamin supplement!"

"We try to help him." Sam declares. "And we're not gonna kill him unless he does something to get killed for." 

---

Danny didn't make jokes when talking to Jack Montgomery. The seriousness was almost as jarring as the conversation.

See Dean's plan had gone something like this: 

1.)Tell the guy what he is. 

2.)Convince him they aren't insane.

3.)Tell him not to eat people or they'd be back.

Repeat step 2 as needed.

Danny started similarly, steps 1 and 2 are the same, but step 3...

"You're not alone. There are people I can put you in contact if you want. They might not be the same species, but they'll have similar experiences. They might have other suggestions that will help."

Danny has a list of substitutes, advice, a food journal to track what works better or worse. That conversation leads into another and another of things that might alleviate that hunger. Then how they leave…

"I don't need to tell you why you shouldn't eat human flesh. You obviously already know. But I will warn you about the change. 'A taste' is what the stories say, and I don't know if that means a bite, or mearly a drop of blood, But if the change happens, it cannot be undone."

And Jack nods, solemn. He makes his promise, and he thanks them.

---

It's Mrs. Montgomery who finds them hours later. She finds them by asking the diner's patrons "Who owns that awful van?!"

And Danny, the only one in town with a van that awful, raises his hand. 

She's confused and frantic, but she knows her husband thought they could help with... it's unclear what Jack told her, whether half truth or blatant lie, but now everything has fallen apart. 

---

Travis' car is in the driveway.

They don't have to break into the house. Even if they hadn't had the keys, the back door is already broken in.  

It's not a surprise when they find a body.  It's a carved up corpse not a charcoaled one. 

"What happened?" Danny isn't asking them. 

---

"He's not a hunter, is he?" Dean asks his brother. They watch from a room away as Jack Montgomery and Danny Fenton speak in hushed urgent tones. When Jack had turned into the livingroom, Sam had flinched and Dean had curled his lip in disgust. Danny hadn't reactioned and Jack had noticed. So, now Danny was the only one worthy of whatever this conversation was.

"He calls himself an electrician that knows too much." Sam answers. 

"How much do you know about how he works?"

"...enough.”

"Sam... I don’t think he's human."

Sam looks at him, watches his face as he asks, "and if he's not?"

"I don't know, Sammy. I wouldn't say he's hurting anybody."

"Dean, I think there's some things we need to talk about..."

"What?"

"Not here, not now. " Sam gestured to the bloody mess on the ground and the still blood covered man in the kitchen. "When this is sorted, we need to talk about what happened while you were dead."

---

"He's going to clean himself up and pack." Danny tells them. "Then we're going to pick up his wife, see what she wants to do, then we’re going. I'll meet you at Jazz's."

"You're taking him to the Coconut Vampires." Dean predicted. 

"Yeah." Danny didn't elaborate further. 

"How does that work? What if one of 'em falls off the rails or something?"

"They deal with their own."

"Right... Sam, you still have Lenore's number?"

"Yeah,"

Dean nods to him, and steps back out of earshot. Lenore, the leader of the Cattle-Blood-Instead-of-Human-Blood Vampires, probably needed to be in touch with the Coconut Vampires. Dean never asked Sam where they went, didn't need to know. Dean knew then if he'd known where, he'd be compelled to check in person, and they didn't need him poking through all their business. Sam kept track of the missing persons numbers where they stayed, and they hadn't needed to follow up.

He doesn't have high hopes for Jack, not really, but those two do, and others do. Castiel was right, he doesn't have much faith, and the least he can do to avoid spreading his doubt all over the place. Maybe they'll prove him wrong.

He hopes they prove him wrong.

[raayllum]

In regards to your last post, they did do that with Soren (ik ik you weren't talking about him) but his character has depth and a more satisfying arc (relating back to the vulnerability is strength theme) so I'm cool with him

Here's the thing about Soren though, honestly. He's just jerky and loyal enough to his father (and the fact that Viren asks him to kill the princes rather than Claudia in the first place) that in S1 it's more of a tossup, even if I do remember being more worried about Claudia / her skewed worldview in S1 than I was about Soren.

TDP also has more complex explorations of morality (if not in some ways just exploring actual morality) than most shows aimed at kids/young teens do.

In She-Ra, the war is mostly a backdrop conflict used to explore relationship conflict, so when characters do defect from like, a conquering empire, it's because they've realized they aren't 1) treated well there by their 'friends' or 2) would rather be someone's friend than enemy. That's fine as a show focus, but it is more shallow in the morality department; thus, even though I have issues with how Catra's redemption arc was executed, I still always absolutely knew it was coming. To be clear, there's nothing with a predictable character arc (I love good setup and subsequent payoff and would take that over a 'subversives surprise' any day) but it did make her less interesting / harder to watch her be continually terrible to the people around her, even when they just risked everything to save her from death.

In The Owl House, every antagonist besides the main villain is either just misunderstood, misguided, redeemed, or all three (hi Hunter, Amity, The Collector, Lilith). There are a few others - Boscha, Kikimora, Odalia - but they're all regulated to small episode conflicts (each get like maybe 2 eps as an antagonist at most) and it's just... they all want power. Okay, cool.

What I'm trying to say through these examples is that's not a lot of moral depth in their character arcs, and to me, that makes a redemption arc less interesting to watch. However, Soren is a very morally driven character and he struggles with the morality of his choices and of his father's. His redemption arc ties in many other important relationships in his life and develops them (Claudia, Viren, Callum, Ezran) all in different ways. Ezran is his king and becomes his new purpose; Callum is a second chance and also kind of a little brother and also kind of an emotionally unavailable best friend who doesn't entirely trust you; Claudia is his sister turned enemy; Viren is, well... We're gonna get into how complicated that is even more, I'm sure.

I guess that's also what it comes down to me, the sacrifice / inconvenience element of the character doing the redeeming. Soren had, and has, something to lose by staying on the side of the good guys. He defects for his safety, yes, but he leaves behind his little sister and his previous idealization of his father on his own terms through a series of events and his own realizations. He shows up on the good guys' doorstep with "We're doomed." Even in S4, he's still losing things and at least somewhat on the losing side, with his entire family on the other side of the line. (Compare and contrast to Amity, whose entire family - all four of them - unanimously ditch her crappy mother or Catra, who defects after realizing she's effectively worthless to the new #1 villain replacing her, etc. They lose nothing, really, in the end.)

And again, I think Soren's arc works because well... it's the only one that TDP has had in this way. Rayla defects immediately, so her redemption arc works a bit differently. Claudia is still in the middle of her "what if I got worse haha jk... unless?" arc. So they all work as his primary arc foils in a very nice way. Now Viren is going through a bit of Soren's S2 arc, which we'll have to see how that goes, but full fledged died and resurrected and dragged through the mud by his daughter's determination to keep him alive sad old sack of an evil man isn't an arc you see often, now is it?

Soren realizes he's wrong without 1) a mentor figure or 2) heroes pointing it out to him and offering him second chances (save Ez sparing both him and Claudia in 3x02, which had an impact for sure but like - think of how much more reaching out, comparatively, even someone like Zuko got from protag team). Part of this is also because Soren starts off in an interesting place for a 'redeemed character' which is that he starts off on the 'right side' (protecting the king) so he has more of a restoration/maturation arc than an outright redemption arc, in some ways.

So Soren's arc is unique within his story, it's very well paced, there's a depth of morality, and it's tethered to theme so so well. It's *chef's kiss* and refreshing for someone who honestly doesn't truthfully love redemption arcs most of the time (at least not the classical kind) so it's just. Nice, y'know? It's really nice

[drabbles-of-writing]

Hi Hello it me the anon from like 2 weeks ago that wouldn't stop asking questions and now im back :) so pls i Beg more Society Au Rants Also thanks for answering The Beta willow and Gus Fluff Thing means alot🥺

EYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY hell yeah lets go

Camila has absolutely No Idea what Luz gets up to but she usually doesn’t notice bc shes at work all the time and when shes back, Luz is either also at home or Luz is asleep (or left a decoy so her mom Thinks shes alseep). Camila at first worried that Luz never left the house all day but then she noticed her talking to Willow and Gus and was happy to know her daughter had friends. she later learns her daughter often leaves the house with said friends and Camila is pretty chill, thinking they’re just wandering around the town. she was less than thrilled when she came home one night ahead of Luz and had to wait an extra twenty minutes before her daughter slipped in through a window. ten more minutes and Camila was about to call the police/guards.

when Amity became good friends with the gang and was basically on Spying On The Scientists level, Luz had no issue taking off her mask. Amity wouldn’t rat her out and she was her friend, after all. Luz did it casually the first time when she was hanging w everyone and just talking and wanted it off. she looked over to Amity and that girl had her head turned in the complete opposite direction. Luz insisted it was fine but Amity sure as hell didn’t feel like she deserved that trust yet and...well, she wanted Luz to know something she didn’t. Amity already knew many of their bases, contacts, ideals, plans & backup plans. while knowing what Luz’s whole face looked like at this point wouldn’t do That much, she still wanted to give Luz something she could keep secret, should anything go wrong. am I simping for kisses on the nose of Luz’s mask? maybe

Barcus is basically the same as canon. he’s one of the mutated animals but is really chill. Viney and Jerbo are also aware of whats going down (and its a little terrifying for them since they’ll be adults & brainwashed in like 2 years) and hang around the edges of town and have their own secret passageways to get around. Luz stumbled across them on accident and since then the two groups occasionally team-up. typically its Luz, Willow & Gus causing trouble and the Double-Track kids being the cleanup crew, or act as someone for the group to retreat to when they’re done or it goes awry. Barcus also gets plenty of gossip from around town by acting as a normal dog and evesdropping.

the twins don’t take anything really seriously and at first never saw a reason to. they know every nook and cranny of nearly every lab and could sneak in and out whenever they wanted. this also meant they got into a lot of trouble with guards and scientists who they worked with and are often ‘forgotten’ when missions fail and everyone needs to leave quickly. or sometimes they’ll just send the twins out on missions far away and hope they take a while coming back. they keep getting more and more reckless in leaving the twins and Lilith keeps warning them that if anything happens to the twins out there and their parents find out it would be a VERY close call if the parents don’t put the breaks on the funding. not many people listen to her, THATS how annoying the twins can be.

this is also, coincidentally, how Emira met Viney. she was left behind in a massive rush to evacuate an area and was hurt and nearly got trampled. Ed had assumed she’d already left so he didn’t come back until a little while later to find her. Viney was inspecting the damage and found someone her age trying to drag herself through the mud. so she nabbed a half-conscious Emira, patched her up, and Oh God She Works With The Scientists FUCK Jerbo & Ed’s meeting was more along the lines of “someone please give me a break this chatty lunatic and I got stuck in a hole and now I’m subjected to dealing w him”

there have been occasions where when the kids come home, their parents are in the middle of being mind-controlled and leaving. at first they had to bite their tongues and let it happen, in case anyone was looking through their eyes and spotted them interfering, but then Luz said “fuck that im not letting my mom be part of this” and ever since every time she sees her mom being mind-controlled she has a bag on standby to put over her head and lock her in a room until it passes. Willow & Gus have learned how to do the same.

[red-hood-vigilante]

hbo spn storylines, drabbles, ideas, thoughts, wishlist, whatever you may call it. it’s messy, nothing makes sense and pretty sure a lot of these contradict each other

more of sam at stanford with jessica/flashbacks. jessica potentially lives but is revealed to be a demon (but she developed actual feelings for sam and really did come to care for him because a demon falling in love with a human would be SO interesting) OR she lives but her memory gets wiped like dean did to lisa OR she dies like she did but she is a ghost that haunts sam (he welcomes it but eventually he lets her go -> character arc). he still dreams about her though and he has her keepsakes with him wherever he goes, her rings, her favourite book, anything that was left of her from the fire

you have to be extremely careful when making deals with demons because they are cunning and evil creatures. they will follow the rules of the deal but will find loopholes to put some sadistic twist on the terms. you want money? of course, too bad you’ll be arrested for fraud before you can use any of it and spend the next ten years in jail before i drag you to hell. you want a perfect husband? sure he’ll love you. in fact, he’ll love you so much he’ll keep you locked up in the basement to keep you safe etc etc. saving a person often becomes the person that causes or leads to your death.

the creation of jack: after s5, when lucifer is trapped in the cage again lucifer fuses his own soul with a human soul to create jack, who escapes to earth to find sam and castiel. i have a longer post about this saved in my drafts

lucifer is trapped for good in the cage after s5 but if he was to return again, dean would kill him while sam would kill michael - this would be nice parallels and a sort of fulfillment of the “one brother must kill the other” prophecy because one brother DO kill another brother, just not their own

more azazel and how he came to the plan of how to free lucifer; opening a hell gate earlier, more experimentations with the demon blood etc

mary was infected with the blood when she was a baby, sam is the first and only second generation special child (longer post about that here)

personally, i want to see more and know more about john and mary’s relationship. when mary died, john and mary had fulfilled their destiny (having sam and dean) so does that mean that his love and dedication to mary post her death was falsely fabricated by the angels to ensure sam and dean would grow up in ideal conditions to become hunters? or maybe, after mary’s death, john wakes up from the spell with two kids he doesn’t recognize and a wife he thinks he loved, but the memories of the past years of his life are like a fever dream; he never wanted to live in a town like this nor was he interested in having kids? but here the house is, and here are his kids, but now he’s alone and empty and with no answers. (idk i just find john and mary and their relationship very fascinating) if the latter, if john and mary see each other again it’s like the spell activates again and they become blindly in love with each other, but once gone, they return to their confused and hazey state of mind, like just woken up from a coma

i do like mary coming back but i love how in s5 when she wasn’t found in heaven it was hinted that she was just discarded because she had fulfilled her “purpose” and i think this adds to the whole notion of how heaven and angels can be really cruel AND how mary is this mythical, religious figure to both sam and dean and we only get to know her through their lenses, like religion and faith

ruby is present for a longer amount of time to make the reveal even more shocking. at one point or another, dean does actually trust her and they all work together on cases for a while. ruby’s backstory as a witch is more explored. i like her death in s4 because she’s in this total state of euphoria and has achieved a goal only she was entrusted with, and she is so convinced sam will understand, until sam holds her down while dean carves her heart out. so we either keep that or she serves lucifer for a while (until he kills her which she is happy about because of her blind loyalty to him, could again mirror dean and john/castiel and heaven) or she serves lucifer and like crowley she realizes lucifer will kill demons after humans (redemption arc, but i don’t really like that, let her be evil!!)

dean and sam helps bela out of her deal and she becomes their go-to person when they need a magic item or book. she doesn’t like it but she owes them. regularly hooks up with jo.

angels are really hollow soldiers - they only follow orders and don’t understand the concept free will or choice or individuality at all. they are extremely righteous and strike without warning often on a whim, often very bloody (explosions a la castiel in swan song). if something fall into what they consider justice they will kill it. no concept of love, attraction or gender. real form can’t be perceived by humans unless they want them to, which leads to eyes melting (pamela) or breaking a person’s mind (in 5.16 zachariah actually says that sam and dean sees him in his vessel bc they’re ‘limited’. so.)

castiel, anna, maybe uriel and some others are exceptions to this, but only becomes so after longer exposure to human’s world. even then, they don’t change their violent whims, just the reasoning and where their loyalty lies

hbo spn is s1-5 stretched out for 8-10 seasons with the aesthetics of s1-2. i’m cutting out demon dean, purgatory, the mark of cain, the men of letters, the alphas, leviathatan, god being the real villain all along and the other worlds because it was just too much and far remived from the roadtrip aesthetic. keeping kevin, charlie (she is introduced via ash bc they’re hacker friends), the trials, rowena, uuuh the angels falling is such an interesting concept but idk if it would fit. maybe metatron? but his motivations are different. soullessness + the concept of souls might be kept if it’s explained better. i’m torn on whether or not to include the campbells

hell, heaven and purgatory are explained but only seen in glimpses, keep these ideas ambiguous and up to interpretation outside of what we hear. remember the line ‘hell is...well, it’s like hell. even for demons’? leave it at that. the exception is 5.16 bc that episode fucks so hard

if we end on swan song and let the show be the tragedy it is, i want to keep the ambiguous ending. is that sam or lucifer? if it’s sam, will he contact dean or walk away? we will never know! there is also no ‘the world is ending’ more than once, it really lost its impact after the second or third time.

idk how i feel about the men of letters - it is logical that there would be organized hunting and an established network and system on how to do things, but for the sake of keeping it hbo-style and grounded, there are no networks beyond the roadhouse and singer’s salvage yard.

i want sam and dean not have a permanent home except the impala, motels and impala ONLY. the bunker had potential but it was just for the sake of convenience it was there with all the lore and answers they needed when it was necessary. maybe eventually they do stop travelling so much when it becomes more about the Big Stuff instead of the episodic cases that requires driving all the time but it will be like an abandoned house in the middle of nowhere. i want sam and dean to never have a physical house as a home but they scrape together whatever they have make something similar to a show

as the show progresses, sam and dean become pretty hated by other hunters because they’ve started apocalypse and have an increasingly shitty reputation. and john was an infamous good hunter but also a dick. everybody knows that people who work with the winchesters often end up dead, that one brother will sacrifice anything and anyone to save the other and that they frequently work alongside demons. even the ones they DO work with (jo, ellen, bobby, rufus, bela) are hesitant to be involved with them

sam’s powers are strong but after killing lilith and the truth revealed to him, he represses the powers in shock and fear of how blinded he was by them and the rush of power they gave him. a little more about how sam fears what the lust for power and strength did to him. he continues to repress his powers, often to a dangerous point where he will be on death’s door as a result of not using them. when meeting jack and mentoring him in using his powers, jack asks him about sam’s powers after sensing them. sam eventually decides to lead by example and embraces his powers again, but remains extremely careful about using them (this also fulfills dean’s arc of having to let go of the holy-innocent-pure-ideal-not a person but an idealized version of sam-little brother sam he has put on a pedestal for so long)

bobby is viewed as a father figure by sam and dean but bobby makes it clear he doesn’t want that burden or relationship in his life after his wife died. he makes this clear to them too, but sam and dean have fucked up perceptions of parental figures so they don’t think bobby means it (they just latch on to whatever parental figures they can find)

we see more of sam’s relationship with the side characters; sam and jo hunt together on occasion, he hangs out with ash and talks hacking when visiting the roadhouse. he and ellen loves playing poker together. if anything, dean is the one who’s isolated - he only ever really cared about mary, john, sam and cassie, and never really had any friends. sam is way more well adjusted and sociable after spending time at stanford where he’s had conversations that didn’t only revolve around dead bodies and lore. 

this could also feed into dean’s extreme abandonment issues and isolation he feels and how this would affect his psyche

sam and dean are both unknowingly prepared to become the perfect vessels; sam loses his humanity by becoming more and more like lucifer (defying his father and his will) while dean becomes prepared by doing what michael did; casting his brother away in his time of need (blindly following his father and his will). very much like in s4 but even more intense and brutal (i love angst :))

we see different hybrids; demon/human (antichrist), human/(arch)angel (nephilim) and demon/angel (???), but none of them are all powerful bc narratively that’s really boring. they’re strong but have very specific powers that affects them and/or their surroundings in catastrophic ways (but no other worlds bs, we stick to the road trip aesthetic, keep it grounded). i want the only all powerful character to be god but he doesn’t show up at all, he’s the ultimate absent father. is it chuck? we never find out!

powers would for example include giving people diseases, force anyone close to them to tell the truth (not consciously, it’s just the air around them), read minds, create storms, light things on fire when they’re angry, make people hallucinate etc. like fucked up shit but not things that are too grande because again - that’s really boring

abbadon, the princes of hell and the four horsemen are more fleshed out villains instead of the one season reign the each had. 

being a prince of hell is a title that is inherited - after azazel dies, sam gets the title because he is the one with azazel’s blood in him OR meg does, but idk if that would be as interesting (if she actually was his daughter)

it remains a horror show throughout, lots of gore and blood

the moral code and ethics of the brothers are the opposite of the beginning; dean thinks in black and white, sam sees shades of grey and individuals instead of what they are. however, as the show progresses, their train of thought becomes opposites; dean becomes more open to how people are true evil and how monsters are often victims of their circumstance while sam becomes harsher and less forgiving after ruby’s betrayal along with finding out the truth of his existence and how there’s been demons around his entire life. eventually they’re on the same page and they see the circumstances. 

on the other hand; i also really fuck with the idea of dean maintaining his black and white morals on that all monsters=inherently evil, humans=inherently pure and good, but he is the only human on team free will. sam is half demon, castiel is an angel, jack is a nephilim, rowena is a witch, garth is a werewolf, mary is a zombie etc

demons become demons in hell by agreeing to become the torturer and thus giving up their humanity to be free of pain, does that mean they could become humans again by regaining some humanity? by doing good deeds? (potentially this is confirmed with jessica and how she came to love sam; genuine love and care for a human could reverse the demon process?) this also means dean was a demon in hell but was purified/turned back again when castiel raised him. this also plays into dean becoming like michael; in trying to absolve himself from what he did in hell he becomes ruthless, unforgiving and righteous to evil, much like the angels, regardless of his personal connection to a person and what he would consider “evil”

dean and pacifisim: after dean is cured from being a demon/the mark of cain/is made aware of his blind righteousness that he used as an excuse to kill, he becomes firmly determined to reign in his anger and violent tendencies by becoming a pacifist (like sam in s11) as a way to redeem all the blood he’s spilled. of course in his profession and true dean fashion he won’t be able to do it 100% so he decides to only act in self defense, and he only goes batshit violent on the offense when it’s about protecting sam

OR. dean’s self righteousness becomes his own downfall; the belief that all evil must be eradicated, refusal to see the circumstances and the shades of grey is what pushes him to lose his humanity and become a demon and therefore, in a potential ending the ruler of hell, because i think it would such an interesting journey from a to b, that dean starts out human, revels in his holiness, executes and kills in the name of his own holiness in the belief that he’s becoming the ultimate angel, the ultimate hero when it’s doing the opposite. if this happened then sam would take the opposite route; starts as a human, becomes more and more demonic, stops himself and returns to his hopeful and optimistic self, has faith and humility and that is what makes him ascend from abomination to purified and holy (trials). 

this could be a perfect 10 season structure as well: s1-5 are when sam and dean start off humans; dean becomes holy and as close to an angel a human can be, while sam drinks the demon blood and almost becomes one to gain the freedom and power he wants, but begins to turn it around to send lucifer back to hell. s6-10 is when dean becomes the unholy and sam becomes the holy even though neither realize because now there’s no grand master plan - this is who they are, who they choose themselves. don’t know how this ould end though; either as normal humans again (but there wouldn’t really be a ”normal” after everything) or they really go off the rails with sam like ruling heaven (not as god though, just as a good and just man) and dean ruling hell. castiel is human and stays on earth with jack.

the gothic americana aesthetic is kept throughout the entire show and is only shot on film

after s5 castiel returns to heaven to help restore order, and he takes charge for a little while, but eventually returns to earth after trying to introduce democracy to angels who didn’t get it. in his place, anna takes over and she rules heaven well (after trying to kill mary when going back in time she isn’t killed by michael, but narrowly escapes and remains in hiding to heal until castiel reaches out and finds her)

when finding out they are The Vessels and will be brought back regardless of what they try, sam and dean explore what this means more. dean throws himself into dangers and to protect others. he is burned, blown up, stabbed, electrocuted, beheaded and eaten, but wakes up the next morning in his bed without a scratch, without any pain and memories of his deaths. he revels in this untouchability. sam kills himself over and over only to be resurrected again and again by lucifer. he remembers the pain and blood.

that being said, while dean is like angel royalty, sam is demon royalty. the demons don’t go after him, they don’t hurt him. some even offer up themselves to be drained of blood, even after lilith’s death. it makes it really difficult to stay clean but he pulls through with dean and castiel actually supporting him. to help sam get through his addiction, dean stops drinking alcohol and they go through their withdrawal together

the angels almost worship dean as the michael sword and have an open disgust towards sam for being lucifer’s vessel - they always answer dean’s prayers and calls for help, they follow his orders if need be and don’t hesitate to heal him if he needs it. sam could pray until his vocal chords bleed or call out for help while holding his guts in his hands; none of the angels would come to his aid. the only one who answers sam’s prayers is lucifer as a voice in sam’s head or a hallucination. sam could call demons to help him out but he refuses

sam isn’t the first hunter to drink demon blood, to try to enhance his own abilities using the supernatural as a means to get there - there are hunters who have altered themselves with parts from werewolves and vampires to become better hunters, like the styne family (the guys from s10), blurring the lines again of what’s good and human vs what is evil and inhumane

if angels can’t find a vessel to volunteer, they will force them to say yes - the how is not important, only that the ‘yes’ is said, whether its meant or not, any verbal yes will do. the angels never sleep and they never eat, which is disturbing to sam and dean who are exhausted all the time and eat scraps whenever they can

castiel, like all other angels, is taught to despise and not care about sam winchester at all, but the more castiel gets to know sam, he becomes fascinated with him, how lucifer’s ultimate vessel, starter of the apocalypse and destroyer of god’s creation can be so kind and gentle, so full of faith, acceptance, optimism and hope. in dean castiel sees a good man, yes, but also a man who’s bloodthirsty, rages, revels in war, resorts all problems with violence, loves conditionally and expects unquestioned loyalty. sam too, has a darkness and bloodthirst in him, but it only comes out in glimpses. castiel thinks it’s funny, how sam turns out to be the opposite of lucifer while dean is so alike michael