#Zelda Lore

[aikoiya]

Huh! Maybe it's just an American version thing? Though, if so, booo! Not nice Nintendo!

Also, oh my gosh, THANK YOU!! YOU'RE A GODSEND!! I've been losing my ever-loving mind!

Like, the fruit still has some of the most creatively bankrupt names I've ever seen, but at least I have a frame of reference!

And thank you so much for the link!!

Also, yes. Psychonauts is very interesting & a little bit crazy. Though, it also has some really dark stuff, but it mostly only turns up if you explore & go out of your way to find everything & 100% the games (which, to me, is totally worth it). But what I love is that the subtext sort of gives you insight into how the trauma of the characters affected them as individuals. Though, you also get a bit of a similar environmental storytelling experience from games like Persona 4 (with Shadows) & 5 (with Palaces). Both feature this whole “getting a look at one's inner world” sort of thing & I eat that stuff up. Though, you're not always gonna get things told to you explicitly. It's more so something you have to look around the environment. Or, you can watch analyses on YouTube. Always fun to listen to someone else's interpretation of things. Like, it even goes so far as there being a power in the game that can let you literally see how other characters view Razputin & I just find it super cool because almost every single characters, plus numerous animals, each see him in a way that gives you a bit of a hint as to their relationship with him & I love that!

Also, don't listen to Sasha Nein. Those lamps are beautiful & it's just his childhood trauma getting the better of him.

But, I'm not going to go too deep into it because I fear spoilers.

Hmm… Sounds promising. Whatever helps with the worldbuilding.

To be fair, the Door of Time would likely only open the once in order to let Link out, then would shut & be unopenable without the other stones & the song. (I mean, why wouldn't it have an automatic lock mechanism without the keys to opening it present? Similarly, it has to open from the inside, otherwise that's just shit building code.) As such, so long as Ganondorf wasn't literally there at the exact moment that Link was sent back & left through the door, I don't really see too much issue. And, my guess is that the time was specifically chosen because Ganondorf wasn't looking then.

I will say that I do sort of view the Master Sword as being fairly important to how Link traveled in OoT, otherwise I don't think it'd be quite such a big deal of him utilizing the sword as a means of travel. This is part of why I hc the Master Sword's handle & the Ocarina of Time as both literally being made of the Timeshift Crystal from SS. Because then it gives a bit of “oh, I see!” To the whole thing. Otherwise, it wouldn't be so important for Link to pull the sword from the pedestal in order to go forward & for him to return it in order to go back. For all we know, it acts as a sort of anchor or even a lightning rod to bring his consciousness back to him.

So, yeah, I think you've figured out a cohesive means of explaining what went down in OoT that leaves as few wrinkles as I can see! 👍

Now, I can also sort of see the Triforce being somewhat unaffected by time too, but that's mostly because of its role as a representation of the literal creators of Hyrule's reality. So, to me, this means that it likely exists outside of time, at least to a degree.

Thank you! I really enjoy finding plausible explanations to things & I just really can't help but wonder who it was that built the qānat if that is, indeed, what allows that spring to flow?

Same! It would've been so neat to have a Farore centered game & I hope that, if they ever do remake the 2 Oracle games, that they take the chance to also make the third! Though, I think they should go with something like “Oracle of Mysteries” or “Oracle of Runes.” That way, there won't be any confusing it with Oracle of Seasons the way it would be with the commonly hc'd “Oracle of Secrets.”

Really? Hmm… I was thinking that it'd be the building itself, which would also include the restaurant inside of it, but I guess that the brasserie should have its own name, huh?

Let me give it a think… Maybe something with shells or pearls to represent being sort of the “jewel of Lanayru?” Maybe even have the food served in large, cleaned out clamshells? NO!! The shells of Shell Blades! With silver & nautilus shell wine glasses! Oh! I just found a picture of some that are near perfect!!

But I think that I'd need to give the stems some pretty designs to spruce them up a bit. Though, nothing too extravagant. Just something pretty, but stylish. Like… Maybe make it look like the shell is being balanced on a spray of water, like from a fountain? Simple, but elegant. Though, they also NEED to have shell wine baskets on a sort of polished coral branch base.

Also, a single chandalier made from sea glass, pearl, nacre, & shell.

Anyway, what about la Perle de la Lune Brasserie du Clos or la Perle de Conque Brasserie du Clos? I was looking for a good reason to use moon, but I couldn't find the right place to put clair de lune. But I think this is fine.

Either way, I really like it! Plus, it can also be a reference to the Moon Pearl of LttP.

Thank you! Much appreciated! Always grateful for the gentle linguistic guidance!

Also, I had zero idea, but I now completely refuse to change it from Marée-Chant, because I love that not only did I somehow manage to make a pun, but also one that's super fitting! So, yeah. It is now an intentional pun! :D

True, at the same time, you could possibly try to find ways of spinning the Zelda sightings in a less jocose way. Oooo! I do know of a comic that shows a great way to depict the sort of havoc that the Yiga taking on Zelda's guise probably had on Link! Especially involving their hideout on the Great Plateau!

She's Gone

Hmm… For the Hateno Village quests, maybe have Reede mentioning the increase in monster activity alongside the Gloom & the return of the Blood Moons & have him mention how he was keeping the election going in an attempt to try & help keep the citizen’s minds off of things. Possibly insert a bit of an undercurrent of unease that's most visible when no kids are nearby. But even the kids know that SOMETHING'S up, just not quite what, yet. Ya know? Possibly even have it so that Reede is sort of exaggerating his end of the Reede/Cece conflict for that reason. (Which, btw, I'd still keep the whole Cece Hat thing, but have it so Link absolutely roasts her regarding the hair & make-up choice. Like, shame her. Because, good grief Cece!)

Also, you may wanna consider having Reede set up a curfew, that way, you can maybe make the nighttime attack of the Stals on the Sun Pumpkins into a more serious issue. Like, it isn't just the pumpkin patches they're attacking, but the town itself. Possibly have some of the new militia set up at what's left of Fort Hateno to do what they can to curb the bulk of it? (Btw, why is there no Stalynel??? And, can you imagine actual elemental Lynels? And a Staltantula boss in the Depths? That'd not only be so flipping cool, but also complete nightmare fuel!!!)

But, regardless, if it was too peaceful for your tastes, try shifting the tone so that it's more of a strained, maybe even slightly delusional peace? Think about it this way, these people had been tormented by the Calamity for 100 years & only recently did that nightmare end.

It wouldn't be surprising if a lot of the civies tried to keep up a veneer of peace in a vain attempt to try & maintain hold on the fraying edges of that tranquility. (I think I've brought this up as a possibility already, just with Zelda...)

Now a dungeon in Necluda is an idea I can get behind! Love that idea!

Oh, heavens! Yes! Absolutely, same! Like, don't get me wrong. I don't mind strong women or tomboyish girls or maybe 1 or 2 strong women that aren't interested in relationships. But not the absolutely flipping wave of them that we've had lately! And, you know what? Yeah, I'm very similar. It's part of why I made my oc the way I did.

Actually, I'd like to bring up something that someone else mentioned a bit ago! Did you notice the hairstyles & designs of the Gerudo in TotK's past? If you notice, most of them weren't really very feminine. And, this suggests that they probably weren't dressing to “attract the male gaze.” But, (& this is me switching to canonical TotK game talk) if that's the case & the Gerudo had also been in a war with the other denizens of Hyrule before Rauru came like I theorize, then this makes you wonder how they were getting males.

Just something to think about. Like, I know what my theory is, but I'm not so sure how dark you wanna go with their portrayal. Because, trust me, I can go SUPER dark. 😈

I tend to think similar, personally. But, for me, I tend to look at examples where a singular old man defeats an entire professional women's soccer team IRL & think quietly to myself that, despite being much taller than most male Hylians, I actually think that a single well-trained Gerudo vai would only be around as strong as a single well-trained Hylian male. And, she'd likely need to utilize her greater height against him to win. But, once more, that's just me.

As for the Rito, I tend to think that the scales from Valoo was how the Zora were initially transformed & that this new design for them is just how they evolved afterwards. Not in that this is how they evolved after WW, as I know you're not going that route, but more so that maybe something similar happened that required some of the Zora to transform into Rito in your timeline. And then, after that initial transformation, generations pass with the Rito slowly gaining more & more bird-like features alongside the remaining Zora also further evolving.

And, I actually think it's a great opportunity to have the Ancient Sage of Wind, alongside the Ancient Rito being much closer in design to WW Rito, so as to showcase that there was a change. Same with the Ancient Sage of Water & the Ancient Zora being closer to either the OoT or TP designs. Or maybe even have Zelda discover that there were once 2 tribes of Zora with the Zora of the modern day being the descendants of both?

Remember that your gonna be sending the girl at least 10,000 years into the past. Also, something else to play with? The possibility of the Ancient Goron still learning Ancient Hylian, because they had only recently resurfaced from living in Gorondia. So, I’d like to think that they’d be learning the language.

Also, I totally see Zelda frantically creating a sort of underground study with a vault of specimens, including seeds, maybe even have a few smaller critters in containment cells? Ooo!!!

Oh, wait… I forget… You're not doing the Secret Stone thing, are you? If you were, I'd have suggested making it so the Stones just sort of enhance their powers & gives them a specific ability like the ones in the game, but that it doesn't prevent the owners from learning other abilities of a similar nature. So, I guess that what I'm saying is that Zelda could've learned how to use Stasis after lmastering Recall, ya know? Though, if you're having it so that the Sheikah Slate is still a thing, maybe you could make it so that she figures out a way to use the Stasis Rune to make those containment cells. That way, she can sort of… Oh, gosh! I think that I'm essentially creating an entire dungeon! One based on Noah’s Ark! But one that travels the sea of time! XD

What if that's the dungeon in Necluda?! What if it's this massive facility in the Necluda Depths that's essentially a massive museum, library, zoo, & botany vault! That's totally the sort of thing that Zelda would flippin' do!

Anyway, I get what you're getting at with not wanting to make the Gerudo outcasts, but eeeh… I dunno. I guess that I feel like they're outcasts anyway & that it's kinda because of their own choices. Like, just their culture as an all-female race that keeps their daughters seperated from their fathers is going to make them as such.

Though, for me, part of the reason for my depiction of them as being cursed is somewhat so I can have that curse broken eventually. Like, to me, it's really little more than an opportunity that I'm trying to use in order to highlight the fact that they once had even worse practices & that it resulted in karma coming to bite them. However, because of that & their humbling, there's supposed to be a slow progression of their depictions over the timelines being something like a case study in how all cultures, all societies, have black spots & things to be ashamed of. But that it doesn't have to be the end &, in fact, the Gerudo are much much improved. So, there's hope.

You know a sort of race wide redemption arc!

As such, my point in it is, I guess, using it as motivation for the Gerudo to improve as a people.

Also, & I know it was more of a joke on your part, but at the same time, if you do go with the idea that the Sand Goddess made Gerudo voe so that the vai only get something nice to look at every hundred years, then you should probably consider how that would affect the voe, as well as the overall perceptions of the vai towards males in-general because of it. Specifically, imagine it from the perspective of the voe. What if your creator made you to have no real purpose beyond looking nice? Imagine that your entire existence revolved around that alone.

Depressing.

And if this were how it was, then the default preconceptions of the vai would automatically be, "men only exist for the enjoyment/use of women." Like, not even for the sake of reproduction because, again, like you said, they didn't need men to reproduce. So, the voe wouldn't even really have that until after the Sand Goddess was killed. And then, well…

The concenssus would likely have become deeply rooted in their ideologies (case in point, that one OoT Gerudo who mentioned that she thought Ganondorf was the only man worth anything). Then, it might've eventually resulted in a culture of misandristic exploitation not unlike one particular depiction of the Amazons of Greek myth. Possibly even culminating in a few generations where the 1 voe sort of becomes what amounts to a slave king & the designated stud for that specific generation. Likely even acting as a kind of feminist reversal of the orientalist harem trope. (And yes, I am fully aware of how yeesh that sounds. Because it IS.)

Also, there's the question of if the Gerudo were made to never need men & the centennial voe was little more than eye candy, then why the legend saying that he was destined to be king? Why the worship in OoT? Literally, how did he get so bad in OoT, HW, & TotK???

Does the legend refer to a true king or more so a pretty figurehead in a pretty crown? Like, maybe he was instead meant to act as the Gerudo queen's handsome arm-candy? A trophy husband or a sort of proof of her legitimacy as queen? Maybe even it being said that a vehvi produced from 2 Gerudo was thought to be exceptional or usher in some sort of Golden Age for the Gerudo.

I'm not saying don't. Just... maybe be aware of the implications these sorts of choices have & prepare yourself accordingly?

And, this one is more out of personal curiosity than anything: What does this choice say about the Sand Goddess? What did the choice to create the Gerudo as nothing but women with only one male every century, where the vai, rather than mating with men, instead went to the Sand Goddess in order to reproduce: What does it say about her & her intentions?

Why did she decide this? Did she have bad experiences with males that led her to do this, possibly believing that she was sparing her creations from grief? Is she an example of a tragic biggot? In this case, a misandrist who legitimately hates males of any kind, believing that they were the source of all the ills in the world, & wanted to create a species where they were commodities & treated as lesser? (An example of Tragic Bigotry. A very interesting way to make the typical bigotry thing more complicated than just “bigots are just jerks, who cares why?”) Or did she do this so that the Gerudo would be forever reliant upon her?

While it may not seem important, you'd actually be very surprised how it can spawn new ideas to explore the underlying reasoning behind these sorts of decisions.

Heck, if you go the route of the second choice, that could easily end up being an underlying reason to why Ganondorf can almost never seem to escape from his role, because in this case (though she likely wouldn't have meant it as such), it could be due to the Sand Goddess' perception of men becoming the basis for Gerudo voes' nature. In such a situation, Gerudo voe would've been created to be subjugated. Otherwise, they risk becoming too ambitious & devolving into demons. Because it would literally be the subconscious belief of the Sand Goddess, which could’ve bled into her creations without her realizing it.

Now, again, I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but I think it's important to at least acknowledge the thought process.

And, one final thing. I don't know if you brought this up before, but I think it's something that you’ll likely need to keep in mind when characterizing your version of Ganondorf.

Namely, how much of the Calamity did he have control over?

And, I need to really bring this into perspective. This… it was absolutely horrific.

Judging by the population density map, the Calamity resulted in the deaths of upwards of thousands of people.

And that’s no small number. Castle Town was sundered. And 7 entire settlements were destroyed, leaving Central Hyrule completely unpopulated. And Deya was the largest of them, but according to what I’m seeing, literally no one survived Deya.

If that’s the case, then that doesn’t just mean soldiers. It means E.V.E.R.Y.O.N.E…

Like, just take a moment to meditate on exactly how utterly horrible that is.

That means men, women, the elderly, the infirm, children, infants, pregnant mothers. Yes, I know, it's horrible. But, it's also canon.

Like, & I'm really sorry for this, but I really do think that it very much encapsulates my thoughts on what happened in the Calamity. Guilty of Wrath

Warning, it's actually pretty graphic.

Like, for me, I just think that it's really important to really take in the full scope of what happened & to properly characterize the Ganondorf that caused all of it, to ask just how aware he was of it all.

Because, I'm seriously considering making this part of my official canon for Meeting One's Match. (Not the part where Link is dead, but most everything else? Yeah, though I'm thinking of letting Rauru take the place of Link in this. Let him be the petty one to deal the final blow to Ganondorf’s psyche. However, now that I'm thinking about it. I may make him backed up by Sonia & the other Sages, then just before they leave, the Sage of Lightning points behind Ganondorf & he snaps around… Only to be met with a veritable sea of spirits… And he's suddenly forced to acknowledge the sheer amount of death that he caused… Ooohoohoohoo! This reminds me of a REALLY amazing one-shot idea I had! But we can talk about that later!)

Like, in my interpretation of events, I'm sort of making it so that he doesn't really know. As in, he was sealed underground &, I guess, sort of allowed his Miasma to run wild with a mindset of “just break everything. Break all of their toys,” but he never really thought about the full concequences of that choice. Never thought of the implications of his own words in certain scenes or what their logical conclusion would be.

So, in my story, one of the final hurdles that he's going to need to face will, in a way, be himself.

As, I'm sort of going with the idea of how hatred is an insatiable beast that keeps demanding more & the more you feed it the bigger it gets until you suddenly realize that it's taken on a life of its own & you no longer have any control over it. And I guess that I feel like it's important to nail down whether your Ganondorf really knew what he was causing. Like, for me, if he knew & was aware of the full scope of his crimes & was… I dunno… unaffected by it, then I just don't think that having him care about the Gerudo will be realistic. Like, it takes a very specific level of psycho to knowingly commit that sort of just… Horror.

Like, the Calamity was outright a flipping genocide, man. The Guardians weren't stopping. They would've eradicated Hateno too, which would've, at the time, left only Shadow Hamlet, Lurelin, & Tabantha Village. And we don't even know if they would've stopped with Hateno. We don't know if they would've stopped until the only one left alive was Ganondorf himself.

So, I feel like it's kinda important to establish whether your Ganondorf was genocidal in a very literal way. If he was, then I just don't see much hope for him coming across as any degree of sympathetic.

@aikoiya The post was getting long again so here's a new one!

I knew you were going to answer that saying "this is unfair" isn't real life logic haha (and I agree that life hasn't been fair to Sky and Sun anyway). It's just that such an ending would probably leave me feeling unsatisfied and even a bit robbed, and I think it would require a lot of other changes to be made to the story in order for it to work properly. But anyway you're right, as things are now this would just be happening behind the scenes so what I'm saying doesn't really make sense. But just thinking about it changes my perception of SS in a way I don't really enjoy, so it's not a theory I favor.

Yes in that setting I'm pretty sure that the other Sun would not make herself known to Link and Zelda and would let them have their happy ending. But I think Zelda would likely suspect her existence and know that something is wrong. I guess even Link could notice that the Temple's doors are suddenly open and would ask Impa a few questions.

I had no idea Tingle called Farore the Goddess of Wind in WW, so I went on a little quest to see if I could find the same quote in the French version of the game. Apparently it's in Tingle's description of Outset Island and I never had the chance to play with the Tingle Tuner mode. I can't find the same quote in French anywhere and I don't even know if this was included in the HD remake (I guess I'll have to wait for a Switch version to find out… if they ever release one). This has me wondering if this quote isn't something exclusive to the English version, but I can't be sure and I'd like to know what the original Japanese text says. The French wikis mention that Farore is the Goddess of Wind in WW but don't provide any quote, it just looks like the pages were translated from English but that they couldn't find the same quote in French. It's really frustrating!!

Anyway that's a bit weird because WW already establishes Zephos as the God of Wind, and he seems to be a minor deity compared to Farore. The way I see it, wind is just the element that Farore tends to be associated with, and since a lot of myths might have been lost with Hyrule in WW this could just be a mistake on Tingle's part. I mean this is the game that gave us the Golden Triumph Forks haha.

I'm not limiting Nayru/the Golden Goddesses to a singular domain, quite the opposite ^^ To me Nayru being the Goddess of Wisdom includes different concepts such as order, law, science, magic, etc., and even time (since she's introduced as the creator of the world's fondamental laws), while calling her the Goddess of Time doesn't include all of that. That's why I wrote that I found it a bit restrictive. But sure she could have both titles, the same way Farore could be known most commonly as the Goddess of Courage and also called the Goddess of Wind in some situations.

Oh I didn't think of the blocks from OoT! I would say though that they don't really use any time powers, they're just random blocks that appear or disappear for some reason when Link plays the Song of Time (it's just as absurd as playing the Song of Storms to open holes in the ground haha). But yes they were blue and associated with time, and of course Nayru is too. The difference with Hylia in my theory is that Nayru created the rules of time (if that makes sense) among other fundamental laws, while Hylia's power specifically allows her to manipulate time and foresee the future. In a way I see Hylia as Nayru's spiritual daughter who inherited some of her powers over time (and that's why the color purple she's represented with is very close to blue).

The Master Sword has also been depicted as either blue or purple though, so that asks the question of the true color of all of these things! Nayru is definitely linked to time so it makes sense that the timeshift stones are in Lanayru (and Hylia also doesn't have a province named after her).

"From the edge of time" could definitely just be a poetic way to say that Hylia kind of recorded a message for Link before dying haha. But I find it interesting that she would phrase it like that, I like to see it as a clue.

Well if Zelda simply sent Link to a point further back in time, wouldn't there be two Links existing at the same time in the Child Timeline? But sure Zelda creating a brand new timeline also raises a few questions that kind of... make my head hurt. I'm not sure what happens exactly, I've always wondered! All we know is that Link finds himself in the Master Sword's chamber with the Door of Time already open, which hints at things happening in a different way this time (because he definitely doesn't have the three spiritual stones and the Ocarina of Time yet since this is before Ganon's coup, and the ending seems to imply that this timeline's Zelda doesn't know him yet). That's why I believe Zelda might have done something a bit more complex than sending him to a point further back in time, but there's no way to be sure. The Triforce of Courage is also visible on Link's hand during the ending, and we also know thanks to TP that the Triforce is still separated in the Child Timeline despite Link and Zelda preventing Ganon from entering the Sacred Realm this time. So maybe Zelda isn't able to change everything? It's complicated haha.

Anyway, whether OoT Zelda creates a new timeline or just sends Link further back in time, that's still huge time powers and that's not something Link is able to do by playing Zelda's Lullaby.

I also believe it is more likely that Talon inherited the ranch. True, Talon might not always have been so lazy, but maybe if that was the case the game could have hinted at hit. All we know is that he leaves his daughter alone with Ingo and only comes back after Link deals with the situation, which does not make him look so great. And he only promises to work harder after that.

I'm kind of bad with names so I'm impressed you're going through all of that trouble to rename the settlements!!

I haven't gotten to developping the technology that much yet, but I'm really interested in seeing what the different races could do with it! I love the idea of using the Sheikah to infiltrate the Yiga bases. I wish TotK had done something like that and shown the Sheikah helping Link that way.

Same, I was so excited when I heard about these pirates… and then so disappointed to find nothing more than a bunch of bokos with no backstory.

Vignoble is not related to noble (though I kind of make the association in my mind, especially since vignobles are sometimes called châteaux).

Yes I thought you could maybe use clos! Aquaticlos is funny, it can work! Though maybe you could use the same logic as for the raisins (I love this Raisins de Terre idea by the way, it makes sense!) and say that what the Zoras call a clos already refers to something that's underwater, since that's probably the case for most of what they cultivate.

I don't mind helping you with French, I'm glad to do so! You put so much effort and thought into this, it's really interesting.

[pocketseizure]

Designer's Note: Secret Stones have been passed down from a time so long ago that not even the Zonai know their origins. Initially we designed them to resemble dragon embryos, but they eventually settled into the form of the magatama jewels worn as accessories in ancient Japan.

Although their shape is simple, we took great care to convey a sense of the power contained within the Secret Stones. So that their color profile wouldn't be too basic, for example, we mixed two or three hues within each Secret Stone to reflect the palette of each Sage.

The art director gave the concept of "rakkan" [the stamps that traditional Japanese artists use to sign their work] as the key aesthetic for the glyphs carved into the Stones. These glyphs are based on the Chinese characters that represent the Sages. While maintaining a minimum level of readability, we transformed the shapes of the characters into something closer to symbols, each of which includes an "eye" element. We hope these designs lend a distinctive air of mystery to the Sages.

[cutebutalsostabby]

Zeldas Ranked By Their Rupee Value

1st place (gold rupee/300 rupees): Skyward Sword Zelda.

2nd place (purple rupee/50 rupees): Ocarina of Time Zelda, Echoes of Wisdom Zelda, Four Sword Adventures Zelda.

3rd place (blue rupee/5 rupees): A Link to the Past Zelda.

Last place (rupoor/-10 rupees): Minish Cap Zelda, Phantom Hourglass Zelda.

[beyemar]

 My personal timeline of the Zelda Universe [as well as answers to questions i suspect people will have about it]

[yasmeensh]

Zelda 2 comic sneak peek

I took out my old full-length Zelda 2 comic draft and chose a segment to make a short comic out of. It's missing context from the whole grand narrative of the entire story, but I think it gets the point across.

There were a couple potentials, and I ended up choosing the scene where Link discovers that his blood is the key to awakening Ganon. It's the most well-known plot point of the game in the LOZ fandom in general, besides the Prince of Hyrule plot. Throughout the comic, Link gets attacked by various monsters during his quest. He thought Hyrule was incredibly dangerous for merchants and travelers, but found out that it was only him encountering monsters at a high rate, thus targeted (that is not discussed in this short comic). This disturbs him a lot. And this is the scene when he discovers why he's a target. It's more than the monsters seeking revenge.

At some point in the game, the player is made to travel towards south-western Hyrule and use the Hammer on dueling peaks to enter and get a magic potion. You specifically enter the peak that is originally Level 9 in Zelda 1. I found that to be very... interesting. And suspicious. Why did the developers think "Okay lets have Link go back to the traumatizing final boss place from the first game to retrieve an item :D" It's kinda epic honestly and it gave me the idea: For the full comic, I made it that Link follows rumors and travels down there in the hopes of finding the magic book containing the revive spell, which is game-changing for the rest of his journey. Being the adventurer that he is, Link takes the risk and goes there thinking the place is long-abandoned and that Ganon probably no longer exists. Except, that isn't the case. (Okay I must add, after the revelation, Link loses his adventurous spirit and gets very serious with his quest. No longer enjoys exploring, which is all this Link is about. He starts developing Big Fears. This eventually spawns Dark Link. I wish I could make the entire comic but I know I can't T-T I should probably finish up and polish the draft and post it online for whoever is interested in a deep dive, lore-intense Zelda 2 story reimagining.)

It's the first time I do a 10 page comic, so I'm going through a learning curve right now xD It's going to be experimental, but I hope you enjoy it still. Here are some WIP shots. Still a while before it's completed.

[thankyourluckystars13]

"Born from a Nightmare,

Hylia refashion the Demon,

Into the Lord of the Mountain-

Guardian of the Hyrulean Wilds."

(This was for a zine titled 'Tales From Hyrule' featuring folklore surrounding ancient Hyrule that I did a long time ago! I forgot to upload it, so in favor of Tears of the Kingdom's release, here's some ethereal art!)

[simpingforcreamsoda]

actually Hyrule Historia Zelda timeline was a hot bitch and easy to understand and a perfect vague sandbox and all we ever needed and then Nintendo decided they needed to euthanize her for serving too much cunt so they released TotK to retcon everything in the dumbest most swagless ways imaginable. And for what. To try and psyop me into thinking the Wind Waker and Twilight Princess Ganondorf parallel isn’t the best pussy I’m gonna get in this god forsaken land of unconventional video game continuity? Get real.

Hero’s Shade big naturals

[spookysazart]

"if majora's mask was a dnd game, the happy mask salesman would be the dungeon master" is one of the hardest lines I've heard from a zelda lore video

[carrotsnake]

since peacocks don't really exist in the wild era, riju's feather patterns on her armour seemed purely cosmetic until totk, where it resembles the leaves of trees in the depths. along with the gerudo underground cemetery, it's another leftover of her people's past involvement there, passed down from each chief.

[somasoa]

The Nature of Twilight Magic and how it affects the World of Twilight Princess

In The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, the Light World is overtaken by an alien magic known as twilight. Twilight magic, or shadow magic (影の魔力), first appears chronologically in the series when a group of magic wielders appeared in Hyrule, entering the ongoing conflict over the kingdom. 

人々の中に、魔術に長けた者達が現れ強力な魔力によって聖地を治めようとしたしかし、神は我ら光の精霊を遣わしその者達の巨大なる魔力を　封じこませたのだそして、その魔力こそが黒き力・・・影の結晶石である

Among the people, people who were skilled in magic appeared and tried to rule the holy land with their powerful magical power. However, the Gods sent us spirits of light to seal away their enormous magical power. That Magical power is black power...the Crystal Stone of Shadow.

Lanayru (Twilight Princess) - Translated by Sidier

We learn that these invaders used a powerful magic known as the Fused Shadow, or, per the Japanese release, the Crystal Stone of Shadows (影の結晶石). In this conflict, they almost emerged the victors, until the Goddesses of Hyrule commanded the Light Spirits to put a stop to their plans. As a punishment for their crimes, these magic wielders were sealed away within the Twilight Realm via the Mirror of Twilight, and the Fused Shadow was sealed within three dungeons across Hyrule. 

However, this doesn’t tell us what exactly twilight magic, or shadow magic, “is,” or how it affects the Light World. Let’s take a closer look at the information we’re given in the game. 

While meeting with the Light Spirit, Faron, he has this to tell us about the Fused Shadow: 

この森の奥にある神殿には、黒き力が眠っていますそれは、古代に我ら光の精霊によって封じ込められた禁断の力本来それは、光の世界の者達が決して触れてはならぬもの・・・しかし、影の王よりこの世界を救うにはその力が必要となるでしょう・・・もし、貴方がその力を望むならこの森の奥にある神殿に向かいなさい

In the temple deep in the forest lies a black power, a forbidden power that was sealed away by us spirits of light in ancient times, a power that those of the world of light must never touch... however, you will need it to save this world from the King of Shadows... If you want that power, go to the temple deep in the forest.

Faron (Twilight Princess) - Translated by Sidier

Faron tells us point blank that the Fused Shadow that he and the other Light Spirits sealed away long ago must never be touched by those who reside in the light world. This means little to us now, but his reason for saying this is shown in detail before long. Upon reaching Death Mountain, we learn the plight of the gorons; their patriarch, Darbus, has been corrupted by the Fused Shadow piece that was enshrined deep within the Goron Mines.

精霊様より託されている大事な宝をお護りせねばならねぇからな・・・だが、手に取ろうとダルボスが宝に触れた途端・・・おぞましい異形の姿に化けちまいやがったゴロ！それから奴は見境なく暴れてもうメチャクチャさ・・・噴火も一層　激しくなったゴロ・・・ワシらは必死の力で奴を山の奥深くに封印した

We had to protect the precious treasure entrusted to us by the spirits... But as soon as Darbus touched the treasure to take it in his hand... He transformed into a horrifyingly monstrous shape! Then he went on an uncontrollable rampage... and the eruptions became more and more violent... and we sealed him up deep in the mountain with desperate efforts.

Gor Coron (Twilight Princess) - Translated by Sidier

魔人と化したダルボスを封じるにも、ワシら老いぼれでは限界があるゴロ・・・

There's a limit to what we old men can do to stop Darbus, who has turned into a demon...

Gor Amoto (Twilight Princess) - Translated by Sidier

As soon as Darbus touched the treasure, he was transformed into a demon. This would naturally lead one to assume that the Fused Shadow, as well as all shadow magic, is thus demonic in nature, similar to the magic utilized by the demons in the series such as Ganondorf. However, this isn’t exactly the case.

Later in the game, Zant uses a different Shadow Crystal to turn Link into a wolf in the light world. This magic isn’t just regular shadow magic, such as that used by Midna or the Fused Shadow, but something else. Zelda and Midna both make note of this. 

これは、今までの影の魔力とは違う何か別の邪悪なる力・・・

This is some kind of evil power, different from the shadow magic we've seen up until now…

Zelda (Twilight Princess) - Translated by Sidier

アンタにかけられていた魔力の塊さ

確かに、ワタシ達の持つ影の魔力とは違う・・・

It's the mass of magic that was cast on you. It's certainly different from the shadow magic that we have…

Midna (Twilight Princess) - Translated by Sidier

Instead of being regular shadow magic, we learn that it’s actually shadow magic that has been infused with the malevolent powers of Ganondorf, which were given to Zant. Zant then created his own brand of shadow magic using Ganondorf’s demonic powers, and this was the magic he has been using against Link and Midna throughout the game, such as the Shadow Crystal and Black Fog we see at the Palace of Twilight. 

この黒い霧は、ザントが魔力で作り出した光を吸い取る影の結晶・・・精霊の光を奪い、ハイラルをトワイライトに変えていた張本人なんだ

This black mist is a shadowy crystal that Zant created with his magic power to suck out the light… he is the one who was stealing the light of the spirits and turning Hyrule into Twilight.

Midna (Twilight Princess) - Translated by Sidier

A running theme that may be apparent by now is that shadow magic commonly appears in the form of crystals - while not necessarily pertinent to explaining exactly how shadow magic works, it is an interesting detail nonetheless. This also heavily suggests that the Shadow Insects that stole the light from the Light Spirits of Hyrule were made of Zant’s shadow crystals - after all, they were designed to absorb light.

Regardless, we can see from the above text regarding Zant’s own brand of shadow magic that it’s altogether reductive to consider shadow magic synonymous with demonic magic. And of course this would be the case, given that the Sols - the “suns” of the Twilight Realm - restore the land back to its original form, before Zant corrupted it, and began turning its population into Shadow Beasts.

ここの皆、まだ完全に影の魔物になった訳じゃない

ザントを見つけ出して、仲間を元に戻してやりたいんだ・・・

ソルは　この世界を照らす太陽みたいなものなんだ

それが失われたから、みんな　あんな姿に・・・

Everyone here hasn't completely turned into a shadow monster yet. I want to find Zant and restore my friends… Sol is like the sun that illuminates this world. Because that was lost, everyone turned into those shapes…

Midna (Twilight Princess) - Translated by Sidier

While it’s useful to know that shadow magic isn’t inherently the same as demon magic, why does it have a corruptive effect on those who reside in the world of light, then? Zant, speaking for Ganondorf, and later Midna, potentially gives us a clue as to why:

そして、我が神の望みは一つ 

光と影を一つの闇に！！

And my God wants one thing. Turn both light and shadow into a single darkness!

Zant (Twilight Princess) - Translated by Sidier

所詮、光と影は交わっちゃいけないんだ

After all, light and shadow must not mingle.

Midna (Twilight Princess) - Translated by Sidier

While shadow magic isn’t evil, it isn’t “good” either. When characters like Darbus or Yeta come into contact with shadow magic, it corrupts them into demons. While it’s not darkness in the same sense as Ganondorf’s magic, it affects the light world in an adverse way that it - effectively - creates a unique type of darkness born from the mixing of light and shadow. The light world’s light also has an adverse effect on the denizens of the Twilight Realm, as demonstrated by Lanayru’s light magic nearly killing Midna, who is only saved by Zelda’s grace. 

光と影は、表裏一体・・・どちらが欠けても

成り立ちはしないもの・・・

Light and shadow are two sides of the same coin.

Neither can exist without the other.

Zelda (Twilight Princess) - Translated by Sidier

As Zelda says, the light world and the Twilight Realm rely on each other to exist. However, the blending of the two - the interaction of shadow magic with those who reside in the light - results in catastrophe, and transforms those who are affected by it into demons.

In summary, shadow magic, the magic utilized by the magic wielders who sought to dominate Hyrule, which was passed down to their descendants, the Twili, is not innately demonic, and even has its own equivalent of “light” in the form of the Sols. That being said, it is still innately corruptive to those who reside in the light and turns them into demons and causes demons to gather, effectively creating its own, unique kind of “darkness” in the process.

All that being said, how do these transformations manifest throughout the game? We know characters like Darbus and Yeta were corrupted by shadow magic, but what about, say, other bosses in Twilight Princess? Is it possible they’re also just demonic transformations born from the interaction between the light world and shadow magic? Interestingly, every regular dungeon boss in the game except Stallord features the same term in its title; “Twilit,” or, in the Japanese release, Awoken (覚醒). The fact Stallord doesn’t have this title separates it from these other bosses; this makes sense, given that Stallord is not a creature in possession of the Fused Shadow or a Mirror Shard, unlike the other bosses. Given this connection in the titles of the bosses, it’s likely that the bosses are all intended to have a shared trait or aspect unifying them. Similar to Darbus and Yeta, it’s likely that this unifying trait is that they were creatures of the Light World who were transfigured by shadow magic.

The first boss we face in the game is Diababa. This creature is a massive three-headed plant, clearly resembling a Deku Baba. Given that the Forest Temple is also home to countless Deku Babas and Baba Serpents, it’s incredibly likely that Diababa is a Deku Baba that came into contact with the Fused Shadow piece that was left in the Forest Temple. If we want to be pedantic, it’s possible it’s a Baba Serpent; however, the lack of the forked tongue and the more traditional head shape of the other two heads suggests that it’s probably just a regular Deku Baba.

The third boss we face, Morpheel, is another interesting case of what appears to be a light world being further corrupted by the Fused Shadow. At first glance, it seems completely alien in appearance, with no close resemblance to any creature seen thus far in the game, demon or otherwise. However, a comparison reveals that its “face” is remarkably similar to that of a Bombfish, a fish that is commonly found throughout Lakebed Temple. To further this comparison, it even spits out Bombfish, suggesting that they’re its progeny. Given these facts, it’s likely that Morpheel is a heavily transformed Bombfish that came into contact with the Fused Shadow.

The fifth boss we encounter, Blizzeta, is the corrupted form of Yeta. While it’s never explicitly stated that the Mirror of Twilight is made of shadow magic ala the Fused Shadow, the sages do give us this warning: 

だが、心するがよい

かけらには魔力が宿っていることを・・・

But be warned, there is magic in the pieces.

Sages (Twilight Princess) - Translated by Sidier

Furthermore, we already observe the mirror corrupt Yeta into Blizzeta, which Midna notes is due to the mirror’s power, and Yeta even reveals that the mirror has resulted in her falling ill and draws demons to it, similar to the Fused Shadow.

でも、あの鏡が家に来てから病気になったり、魔物が現れたり悪いことばかり・・・

But since that mirror came to my house, I got sick, demons appeared… Bad things happen...

Yeta (Twilight Princess) - Translated by Sidier

あんな大人しかったのに・・・これも陰りの鏡の魔力なんだな・・・

She was so quiet… I guess that’s the magic of the Mirror of Shadows…

Midna (Twilight Princess) - Translated by Sidier

With this knowledge, we can then reasonably deduce that the next two bosses that are in possession of Mirror Shards have also been corrupted, similar to Yeta.

The next boss is in the Temple of Time, Armogohma. Given its unique appearance even amongst other Gohmas, it’s likely that it was a regular Gohma that came into contact with a Mirror Shard and was corrupted. Notably, while its “true form” is that of a smaller spider, its namesake armor appears organic in nature; it has urticating hairs on its abdomen, a spinneret, pedipalps, and can even lay eggs. Given the laser ability and its strong resemblance to the lasers utilized by other Beamos, it’s possible that the Mirror Shard turned a Gohma into some hybrid between a Gohma and the other technology found lying around the Temple of Time. 

Finally, the fourth Mirror Shard is found within the claws of the Twilit Dragon, Argorok. If the name wasn’t explicit enough that it has ties to Kargoroks, the vulture-like bird enemies found throughout Twilight Princess, they are also an incredibly common enemy to find flying through the City in the Sky. Because of these facts, it’s very likely that the dragon was just an ordinary Kargorok that stumbled onto a Mirror Shard and was corrupted into a fire breathing monstrosity. 

In sum, here is what the transformations caused by the Fused Shadow and Mirror Shards look like: 

These transformations exemplify why the Light Spirits are adamant that those who dwell in the light are not to come in contact with shadow magic; it has a corruptive impact, that, even for demons, can turn them into monstrous beasts that make their previous forms pale in comparison. While the departure of Midna and the breaking of the Mirror of Twilight was certainly a bittersweet ending, it was for the best; light and shadow are two sides of the same coin, but it’s for the best that they don’t mingle.

[lightmothx]

What's a Zelda theory you believe in — despite what canon says?

[nokillbananashelter]

For only one reason is downfall considered “hypothetical” and its because we don’t see a cutscene in OOT expanding what happens if link goes down.

But botw, windwaker, and even tp to some extent highlight the aftermath of what happens if link goes down- he either comes back from the dead, the sages buy time, or the world simply moves on under darkness until he reincarnates again. The mechanics for link are right in front of us. This series is constantly answering questions with more questions. Literally OOT was supposed to explain the imprisoning war but instead introduced timelines and sort of only described who MIGHT have imprisoned ALTTP’s ganon. TOTK illustrates how an imprisoning war can go down, which actually lines up with what you could imagine happened in ALTTP.

I think peeps really miss how much of this series has repeating events, and explains instances of one event with another.

Too many people try to ask “whats canon” when the answer to that is and always has been “literally everything”. All the timelines are Canon. All of the timelines are displayed as being somewhat connected to the Triforce. Three characters. Three goddesses. Three timelines. There’s a fourth part, character, and timeline of that that’s a bit fucky!!! And all of those components are all Canon. They’re not contradictions. They are confirmations.

It’s almost as confusing to me as when people say the Triforce isn’t in BOTW/totk because it’s not explicitly stated or talked about. It’s literally expressed in every fucking corner of the game. We don’t need to be so obtuse because the game is being obtuse.

This series is NOT cynical and the people responsible for it biggest narrative twists are literally running the damn thing. Fujibayashi is zelda lore nerd No. 1 and has been *Extremely* consistent since he took the reins.

[pocketseizure]

Demon King's Horse: This is the horse that Ganondorf is shown riding in "Memory #11: The Demon King's Army." Based on its appearance, there's a strong possibility that this horse is a species of monster, but its origin is shrouded in mystery.

[kbluebirdart]

There are still a lot of questions about Eow...

Major spoilers ahead

---

Why did Echo of Ganon capture Zelda?

because Null may not know that Zelda could receive sanctions from the goddesses to access the prime energy in the first place or did he? But it wasn’t until she fixed the rift at Hyrule Castle, right? Did I miss smth...

---

Why is there no Master Sword? I presume even the sword can’t survive through the endless passage of time

or... maybe, could it be save for DLC? a sequel? (is that possible?? but this should save us Zelda fans from dying (lol) while waiting for the next 3D Zelda game if actually happens)

---

Zelda can only rely on Tri with his power in this game. but where's her magic power?

like goddess power? telepathic ability? summon bow of light? Nope. She’s very much the athletic type and relies on her wisdom and courage like Link here.

---

Have people forgotten about the Triforce, similar to Botw? even the goddesses and the Deku tree call its name the Prime Energy now

The Triforce symbol is still around, but people really don’t call it Triforce anymore. could this kinda imply that the game must be set far, far into the future after A Link Between Worlds?

---

since Null is now gone, could Eow be the final game in the fallen timeline??

Someone pointed out that Demise and Null might be one and the same. In the Japanese version of Skyward Sword, Demise is at one point called an "incarnation of the void." Now Null is gone...forever?

---

the goddess statue is in the basement under the Hyrule Castle which means people no longer care about her...??

ever since the hero of time was defeated then...could this be the reason why the magic power that was inherited to every princess of Hyrule fade away??

----

all of these lead to... or are they just ditching the old lore away?? but still, connected with the timeline or anything else? And jokingly..., why is there no nighttime in the game, except at the start of the game? Did they forget to include it?😅 so many questions lol

[jullbnt]

@aikoiya The post was getting too long so I’m replying here, hope that’s okay! If anyone is looking for the beginning of this discussion, it's here.

Your extended pantheon is amazing! I just knew that Gàlondo would end up being Demise haha. I'd say I prefer not to associate Demise with any race in particular (and the Gerudo already have quite a heavy burden with Ganondorf), but otherwise I like that backstory you came up with. So what's Hylia's role in your version then if he’s the guardian of the Triforce? I'm curious ^^

I'd say my reasoning isn't so much "I hate this" but rather "this doesn't make sense/contradicts something else" or "previous games did this better". I also want to show that it's still possible to create stories without ignoring everything that was established previously because to me this idea that the timeline is too restrictive doesn't stand. In fact I tend to believe being a bit restricted and working inside a frame can trigger more creativity (after all they did wild stuff like flooding Hyrule before and it fits perfectly in the timeline). I also would prefer to see the existing lore extended or clarified instead of them adding new confusing stuff and leaving it extremely vague.

Oh I LOVE your Outset Timeline!! Though the ending is indeed very bittersweet. It always makes me so happy when someone else points out the inconsistencies in Skyward Sword's story. That's exactly my reasoning for my fourth timeline, it exists because of Ghirahim and Link's victory over Demise in the distant past. Though you are right, adding a timeline split while keeping the Master Sword in the official timeline requires some gymnastics! At the moment I'm going with a lazy theory about the Sealed Temple being the future Temple of Time, so the Temple's magic somehow allows the Master Sword to exist in both timelines (I said it was lazy haha). Impa’s bracelet is another story though. In my timeline the Goddess Sword is also left untouched in Skyloft because Skyward Sword doesn't happen, which could be useful in case someone accidentally broke the actual Master Sword 😁 It's very intriguing to me that Sky left the sword in the past when he had no reason to (and it shouldn't even be possible since it's in the exact same spot as Zelda's crystal). It's probably just a mistake on Nintendo's part but I like to think there could be something else there, and that Fi had a reason to stay in the past.

About the DLC items the thing is that most sets are found in the Depths in random Zonai chests if I remember correctly, or in the coliseums, and there was no explanation as to how they got there. In Misko's little shrines we find the Fierce Deity set and the LA set, but also the barbarian armor, the shock-resistant outfit and the climbing gear. I can understand building shrines for the Fierce Deity or LA Link following what you said, but then for three random armor sets? Not to mention that Link already owned them in BotW, so making us look for them a second time was kind of a joke. I like this shintai/yorishiro idea, but I think it would work a lot better if there were only a few items to collect and not… the outfits of all the Links ever INCLUDING WILD'S (how!!). It feels really meaningless and more like a catalogue for you to choose from so you can look like your favorite Link (which is a bit insulting to Wild, you can just replace him at this point and go as far as changing his hair or even his entire appearance with the LA set). I also didn't really believe they were the actual items from past games, it made no sense (the same way Link wouldn't actually wear a red Nintendo Switch t-shirt or something from Xenoblade). It just really felt like fanservice.

The dictionary thing might help, but I think the story should be explicit enough on its own and I don't really want to study Buddhism/Shintoism in depth so that I can play Zelda games and understand what's happening haha. I mean of course it's fine if knowing a bit about it adds new context and all, but if you can't understand things like malice vs. gloom without it then I think it's a bit of a problem. Speaking of Fujibayashi I feel like this wasn't really an issue before he was in charge.

Yes the French translation for Demise is very misleading, that's another problem: depending on your language things are sometimes interpreted very differently.

I really like the English names for the three dragons, I think they're so much better than what we got in French. Nedrac, Ordrac and Rhordrac, really?? At first I didn't even understand the link with the Goddesses, and then the last two sound way too similar. Btw I remember from my very basic Japanese courses that it's common in Japanese to create new words by mixing a few syllables of other words together. For example "rimokon" means remote controller (remo + con), or there's the well known Pokemon = pocket monsters. So naturally we end up with stuff like Ordinn + dragon etc.

I thought as well about the dragons going by names given to them by mortals instead of their true names. The thing is, I don't really want to create new names because I'm already changing so many things and my timeline stuff can be a bit complicated, so I need to keep at least a few things familiar. And I really like Dinraal, Farosh and Naydra :D

I agree about Farore being more associated to wind and plants than thunder (I mean she's kind of Link's patron goddess and he has nothing to do with thunder). What's even more confusing in BotW/TotK is that the Gerudo are now also related to thunder for some reason, but they're definitely more Din than Farore in my mind.

Maybe I should give you some context about my dragons haha. The beginning of my story is quite similar to TotK, though I still made some changes. Ganondorf completely destroys the Master Sword, Link looses his arm (except here Rauru isn't there to replace it), and Zelda still travels through time (but not because of a Secret Stone since I got rid of everything Zonai). She arrives in ancient Hyrule one century after Sky killed Demise (because this is set in my alternate timeline), and she's stuck there so she needs to find a way back home. Before that she learns a lot about SS, the Triforce, the timeline split and Hyrule's past. After meeting various characters and most importantly Sonia (who's still a priestess, the Sage of Time and her ancestor), Zelda learns that this era has two Master Swords: the one left by Sky in the Sealed Temple, and the Goddess Sword that is still somewhere above the clouds. She understands then that she needs to retrieve the Goddess Sword in Skyloft and forge a second Master Sword in order to help her Link in the future, and to do so she needs the three Sacred Flames. Where are the flames? The dragons "swallowed" them since they weren't needed anymore after Sky left his own Master Sword, which turned them into the giant immortal dragons we see in BotW/TotK. So that's Zelda's quest: find a way to go to Skyloft and then get the dragons to lend her their power. Along the way she'll also meet the ancient Sages, who can help her return to her own time by using the Triforce (but of course this won't work because of Ganondorf, and Link will have to fight him in the present and bring her back himself).

I'm trying to make this both a story I could adapt in comic form and something that could work as a game. The idea is that Zelda's memories would be playable sequences with places to explore, fights and maybe even mini-dungeons and bosses. And of course there's an entire story for Link as well. At the moment I'm trying to come up with interesting arcs and quests for each race/Sage, both in the past and the present.

Anyway, that's why I'm so focused on the dragons. Zelda (and Link) will need their help and they will talk this time. And since they will remember being apointed by Hylia and they're supposed to absorb their respective sacred flames, I need things to make sense. This is also a timeline without climate change in Lanayru (here it's the same province as in BotW with the addition of Mount Lanayru and a good part of central Hyrule), so the thunder dragon has no business being up there. That's why the swap would make sense.

No need to apologise! I appreciate your perspective and that you're interested enough to share your own ideas! :D

I agree on Zelda's magic being her own and what you said makes sense! Love the part about her only thinking about how she's a failure (though I guess it's only natural if she's been trying for 10 years without result). I don't know if she would have had the same reaction had she witnessed her father's death though. AoC isn't canon but Zelda doesn't unlock her power when Rhoam "dies" in front of her and Link forces her to run. The memory where's she's crying in Link's arms in BotW also shows that she knows everyone is dead, it's even possible that she saw some of it happen (maybe in the same way as AoC for Rhoam, or they saw what happened to the Divine Beasts from afar). I guess they must also have seen some terrible things on the roads, so she could have unlocked her power trying to save her people. But it only happened when Link was about to die.

Haha yes, I'm probably one of the most obsessed Zelink shipper there is and even I can't stand that power of love trope. It really has no place in a LoZ game. In my headcanon Zelda wouldn't access her power only because of her love for Link, though it definitely helps, but rather because the Hero dying is kind of an emergency situation and would trigger her divine magic even if the necessary conditions were not met. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone but me though 😆

Yeah I'm okay with the women of the royal family having some sort of power though not as powerful as Zelda. I think some part of it could also be attributed to their Sage of Time abilities. And the gift of prophecy being inherited from Sky is such a cute idea!!

I don't know about Terrako, I only remember that Zelda built it when she was just a child?

I'd send you an ask to rant about TotK but I'm not sure about the character limit and I fear it would just turn into a second wall of text haha! Here are some thoughts:

– I could live with new lore that contradicts older games, if only things made sense and were sufficiently fleshed out. Then I could just enjoy the story and accept that this is a different continuity. But here everything is so vague and sometimes even confusing. Like if we're going to meet the Zonai and make them such central figures in Hyrule's history, then I want to know more about them and learn about their culture. What's the point if we're only going to see two of them and have no clue about how they created all that technology, mined the Depth, lived with the Hylians, and then disappeared? Same for ancient Hyrule: if the different tribes were at war, I want to see it, and I want to learn more about them. Ganondorf also had so much potential for an interesting backstory. What kind of king is he? How did the Gerudo feel about him becoming the Demon King? What about the Gerudo Sage? And so on. It feels like this could be so much more.

– Other things I would love to see explained: where is the Master Sword in ancient Hyrule and why does no one seem to know anything about it or the Hero? How does it travel through time to reach Zelda? What about Rauru and Sonia's descendants? Also what was the point of the fake Zelda, and why did Ganondorf stay in his bathtub the entire game instead of rehydrating himself right away and getting stuff done? There's also everything I said about the secret stones the other day, but I know you don't see it as a problem ^^ (Also I just rewatched the memories and I had completely forgotten what Rauru tells Zelda in front of Sonia's grave: "Remember, that was a future where you never appeared in this world". So does this mean this is a new timeline that kind of retcons BotW? If not then where did all the Sheikah tech go and how were the shrines replaced by the Zonai ones? I really need an explanation for all of that!!)

– The game also barely mentions what happened in BotW, except for the history class about the Calamity in Hateno, the statues in Zora's Domain, and the memorials left by Zelda to honor the dead. I wanted to see Hyrule starting to rebuild and to get some sort of follow-up on the story. Did Link regain all his memories? Was Zelda planning to take the throne? Does she have some sort of trauma after her century-long battle against Ganon at Hyrule Castle? Why does she react to Ganondorf's name, but doesn't link him to Calamity Ganon? Why did the Sheikah tech that was so central in BotW disappear, especially the Divine Beasts? I care about this world and its characters, I want it to feel like a real place and to see it evolve. But then stuff like this really reminds you that this is just a video game world, and that Nintendo doesn't really seem to care. And if things can be retconned any moment even in a direct sequel, then… why should I feel invested?

– There was a real waste of potential with the Light Dragon and Zelda just transforming back thanks to Rauru and Sonia (btw couldn't they have helped if they could appear anytime and still had that kind of power?). I find it so disappointing that Link doesn't have to do anything to help Zelda, it almost happens by accident. Mineru also said it was irreversible, but in the end it's no big deal (they shouldn't establish something and then ignore it like that). If only Link had to use the Triforce or something. I didn't want Zelda to stay a dragon but sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't have been a better ending.

– It also really doesn't help that Link feels so disconnected from the main story. In BotW he was also experimenting the story through flashbacks but at least they were his own memories and they fleshed out his relationship with Zelda and the other Champions. Here Zelda is the one experimenting the best part of the story, and to make it worse you can find the memories in any order and get badly spoiled. It could have been so cool if Link also time traveled at some point and could explore ancient Hyrule (and they could have done something crazy like Link and Zelda being the ones to seal Ganondorf in the past, which would lead to his transformation into Calamity Ganon). Link is also so expressionless (except when cooking and all) that I find it hard to care when he doesn't seem to. Imagine how different Zelda sealing herself would feel in Skyward Sword if Sky didn't act so distraught. In the same way TotK would hit a lot harder if Link did stuff like falling to his knees after seeing Zelda's last memory.

– I also think that the hands/cooperation theme the devs talked about in interviews is a bit weak and cliché (with characters reminding Link and Rauru that they don't have to do things alone and that they're stronger together, stuff like that). First I don't find it very interesting compared to what games such as OoT, MM or Wind Waker did, and then Link being able to fight Ganondorf alone from the start kind of throws it out the window (and Rauru also ends up sealing Ganondorf on his own). The Sages are not even with Link outside of the dungeons, they just create creepy copies of themselves (and I found them so annoying I never activated them, except for Tulin when flying). But yeah sure they shake hands and vow to help Link. I still think him being accompanied by the Champion's spirits in BotW worked a lot better, and their powers were also more useful. I guess seeing everyone working together to rebuild Hyrule would have made that theme more meaningful. The thing I really liked about this though was Link finally catching Zelda in the end after failing at the beginning of the game, that was a really beautiful scene.

– Also I said it above but I don’t want everything to be explained by Buddhism/Shintoism parallels, especially if the game just expects you to get it without providing context. Let Hyrule be it’s own thing.

So I know this isn't only about lore, but these are the main reasons why I'm not very interested in TotK. To sum up I'd say that the game lacks some kind of depth and has a lot of wasted potential, and it also makes it clear that it's pointless to care about continuity. BotW Hyrule was interesting and I think a lot of things could have been done about existing races instead of adding a new one but not bothering to do much with it. Just bringing Ganondorf back in this version of Hyrule and see how the Gerudo react to him could be so interesting!! Some concepts were also excellent but didn't really go anywhere, like the Depths and the Sky Islands.

Honestly I haven't thought about all these side quests and minor characters yet, I'm still trying to sort things out with the main story ^^ But I don't think I'll touch the ones you mentioned, they were fine. I liked the thing with the Eighth Heroine as well, I've seen a lot of people complaining about it but it's one of the only things in the game I actually found interesting. I just can't unsee the parallel with Link and the Seven Sages (of course).

What I'll be doing for sure is making some of the quests and events more serious, I'm kind of aiming for a darker tone. Most of the quests are quite fun (especially the "potential princess sightings" ones), but I feel like this game really lacks some sense of danger and urgency. For example couldn't the people in Hateno have more pressing problems than making cheese or choosing between Cece and Reede? Or was it really a good idea to make lighthearted little quests about misanderstandings with Zelda when her disappearance should be driving Link mad? (I should have included that in my little rant above haha)

I'd also love to make the pirates in Lurelin something more interesting than just a bunch of Bokoblins, but I'm not there yet. And rebuilding the exact same village was kind of meh.

About the Gerudo questioning their traditions, I'm actually planning for my Ganondorf to be a lot more active and go to Gerudo Town in order to meet his people (I want him to care about them, so he wouldn't attack them the same way he targets the others). I don't have all the details yet but I'm pretty sure there will be a conflict between Riju's supporters and other Gerudo who believe he's their rightful ruler (at first they wouldn't know he's actually that one king who turned into Calamity Ganon). So that's another tradition for them to question.

The consequences of Ganondorf being the only Gerudo male are something I've been wondering about as well. Add to that the fact that he's raised to be king because he's male (and maybe even kind of worshiped by his people) and you get something that can turn nasty real quick. Though I also wonder if Gerudo aren't different from Hylians. You said you hc that the Gerudo are only women because they were cursed so it makes sense that you would view it this way, but on my part I believe that's just how they were created. For that reason I think this is natural for them, so it's possible that it doesn't cause exactly the same problems it would for us or for Hylians.

About Demise, yes of course Ganondorf is more than just Demise's hatred. But in this game it doesn't seem to matter, he kind of turns into a second Demise as soon as he gets his secret stone and his motivations instantly go from conquering/ruling to destroying everything and everyone. They could have done something a lot more nuanced or at least shown a more gradual transition, with him being more and more consumed by his hatred and loosing control for example. I don't know, anything that would look less like a comically caricatural villain riding a demon unicorn.

Also about Demise's curse, I always thought it sounded more like a warning than an actual curse, and I remember reading somewhere that this was the intention in the original Japanese text. In French Demise even says something like "you must never forget, history will repeat itself" instead of "I will rise again", and he and speaks of the curse of the demon tribe (implying that it existed before). Even in English it doesn't sound like Demise himself is casting a curse: "Those like you… Those who share the blood of the Goddess and the spirit of the Hero… They are eternally bound to this curse". He doesn't say "I curse you" or "I bound you to this curse". I feel like this makes a difference (the curse already exists). This is why I interpret it as him basically saying that evil will not die with him and that Link and Zelda/the Hylians as a whole will always have to fight the demon tribe, but not necessarily his reincarnation. So I don't even believe that Demise himself is influencing Ganondorf in any way.

About the Zonai Zelda explains she studied them at the beginning of TotK and recognizes what's depicted on the murals, so it seems strange that sky beings could get mixed with a tribe of barbarians living in the woods. But yeah history getting lost and mixed is the only explanation for this.

Oh you're completely right about the Mogma, I got the same vibe from them! And a Mogma mafia sounds hilarious ^^ I love the Rocktato, Link would definitely eat something like that 😆

I need to take some time to read through your master list, it all looks very promising!

[clowns0up-felix]

Coming back to tell you how much I love that little comic with the Chosen Hero and the Hero of Men. There's no dialogue, but it still has a strong sense of sadness and hope. And the parallels between the two are fantastic, I really wish Nintendo gave us more information about what happened between Skyward Sword and Minish Cap because now I'm really thinking about it and how whatever happened had to be pretty scary if the Hero of Men decided it was in everyone's best interest for him to yoink the Chosen Hero's sacred sword from its temple.

All those words to say your art is wonderful and I'm thinking about it and the piece of LoZ lore it represents. ❤️

Ohhhh my go yesssss I would give my life to know more about the hero of men,,, its literally crazy to me that there’s a link that’s just. There. No game no story no nothing. WHO IS THAT TELL ME?? Thinking about who he could’ve been is one of the joys of life but it tends to feel more like writing an OC than expanding on known lore, bc be barely have any,,,

Actually, Ill use this to ramble about what I do tend to think for him here, hope that’s okay!!

I love love love that u said that what was happening during the hero of men’s time had to be pretty scary, bc YEAH. To pull the sword of the first hero and first king of Hyrule (^.^) who probably would kill to not have fi be woken up is CRAZYYYY,,, either he’s oblivious or in a really bad situation,,, What is known about him leaves to believe that he was a knight tho, and they 100% knew about fis resting ground,, It is said that the world was about to be swallowed by evil, which makes me think Botw final cutscene or sksw final girahim type severity of monster floods. So I think hom (ill refer to the hero of men like this for now) link probably saw getting the sacred, legendary master sword as his only chance at saving hyrule.

Idk if he would’ve know himself to be the legendary hero reborn due to triforce mark, maybe he just stumbled across it in an attempt to hide some injured knights in the temple of hylia,,,, Side note on the temple of hylia, love the abandoned look in the comic but it doesn’t really make sense, does it? Bc why would sksw Link want fis resting place to not be well kept? Would he visit before his passing?

Anyway, he takes the sword defeats the monster hoards and gives hyrule a brief moment of safety. He’s made into a high ranking knight or maybe head of the knights (he’s probably rather young still, as that seems to be a theme for the chosen hero and priestess, so maybe late teens, and before having the master sword he was a knight in training?) and then, when the picori/minish come down to earth (i dunno from where, was that ever said? Just from the skies i thiinkkk,,,) he gets the picori blade and I think the light force from them. It’s similar use does bring up the question why hom link would use the picori blade over the master sword,, maybe because its a gift and the master sword is like this sacred sword meant to rest and that got him feeling bad hahaha,, Hom link trapped the monsters rather than killing them but I can’t remember if the trapped them in the sword or the chest or somewhere else hmm,,, the sword later turns into the four sword right? (I’m so sorry im too lazy rn to do research 😭) I don’t think hom link would’ve been able to use it as this tho, i think he never got it to a point like this, just used it to save the world once and then gave it away for the contest ^^ In one of the stained glass the sword he gets DOES look like the four sword but i am going to ignore that bc I think i can.

Also, for reasons that I can’t (don’t want to) talk about rn I personally would change it being the 50th anniversary of the Picori Festival instead of the 100th ^.^ also I think hom link would stay a close friend to the royal family partially to protect the holder of the light force which was sealed into his Zelda i think and passed down to her children and their children yk,, and don’t tell anyone I said this but he is alive during minish cap and ezlo was one of the minish that gave him the blade during the Force era ;)

I also think the minish weren’t really ever introduced to the public but instead kept in strict contact to the royal family and those they trusted, which is why during mc basically no one knows about them, and those that once did are already fairly old or dead.

I’m not gonna read this over, hope everything makes sense and is coherent

Thanks for the ask !!!!! Drawing the comic was so fun I’m happy u like it :D