#WHY DO WE CARE WHAT MIKE WHEELER’S SEXUALITY IS

[riri-loves-cats]

Guys listen you don’t need to hate a popular ship just because you like a less popular ship…

for example (and this is just an example, I’m not targeting these specific people)

I see a lot of posts under Mileven, that is JUST talking about Mike and Eleven, and they have anti-byler in the tags even though there’s NO mention of will. Also all this discourse about who’s gonna end up with Mike in canon. IT DOESNT MATTER. If he ends up with will, cool! If he ends up with Eleven, cool! If he ends up with someone else/doesn’t end up with anyone, cool! Why are we hating on random people on the internet for shipping two people that you don’t ship? don’t get me wrong, not everyone has to like the same ship, but let’s not hate on other people for liking a different one okay?

I really don’t want to see ‘anti-*ship name*’ in the tags unless you’re ranting about why you dislike the ship. And also even if you are ranting, you don’t need to throw hate on people that do ship those two people. Just talk about why you don’t like it and go.

Another thing, sometimes I see on a post talking about how ‘You definitely shouldn’t ship this because it’s not the most popular ship!!!!’ I kid you not, that was the exact reasoning on this one post I saw.

Of course, there are some ships that aren’t good at all, such as P3d0philia, and stuff like that. Those are a different story.

| If I missed anything or accidentally offended anyone, please let me know! I assure you, I did not mean to do that. I usually make these posts when I’m bored and/or half-asleep, so I forget to make some points and/or don’t think when I’m writing. My English also isn’t very good, so please let me know if I accidentally offended you or anyone else. Have a nice day and remember to drink some water<33 |

[thefirstlioveyou]

How Smalltown Boy Connects with Mike's Relationship with his Parents

I can't get over how they chose Smalltown Boy for the FIRST track on Mike's playlist. I just can't. That's the gayest thing ever. Gayer than his staring I fear. The lyrics perfectly fit him, but not only because he's a closeted homosexual. It's also highlighting his dynamic with his family.

Of course, if we are getting into specifics, Smalltown Boy is a song about a young gay man running away from his homophobic home and town to live in the city to somewhere he can be himself. But generally, it's a song about not belonging and not feeling understood within a place, and the crippling loneliness that comes with it. So you seek a place where you can feel accepted and heard.

Struggling to figure out your place in the world, struggling with your sexuality and relationships, facing severe bullying, wanting to be understood and seen by your family for who you actually are while still struggling to accept who you are to begin with, desiring the escape from the place that brings you all those unmanageable problems -- That's Mike Wheeler.

"Mother will never understand why you had to leave, but the answers you seek will never be found at home. The love that you need will never be found at home"

Obviously, the actual plot of the music video features homophobic parents. I don't believe Karen is, and I see Ted as more brainwashed yet careless. But "the love that you need will never be found at home" reminds me of the Wheeler family's emotional distance and lack of actual attention, and how it's damaging Mike especially. Nancy's already seen right through the bullshit. Mike hasn't.

I don't see them as the worst parents on the planet, but they're haven't been great. They have questionable parenting choices and the show wants us to pick up on that. If you haven't yet asked yourself "where the hell are his parents?" at least ONCE while watching ST, then idk lmao.

Come on. Not knowing your son has been hiding a whole child in your basement for a week?

Never talking to your son about his best friend's death and instead letting him take the responsibility to go to you first?

Not taking concern as to why your son is suddenly misbehaving at school? And instead, you force your child to get rid of 2 boxes worth of toys that hold emotional value to him (while mocking him for having said emotional connection)?

Not even being aware that your child is constantly bullied physically and verbally, and not even questioning visible marks that could indicate that sort of abuse?

Although it's unintentional and we see Karen aware that it's wrong, you're still essentially teaching your child that 1) their feelings or voice do not matter 2) they cannot trust or rely on you 3) their 'childish' interests that make them who they are do not matter and are something they need move on from because they "have to."

And we see this play out.

If his parents can't even accept his innocent interests or show more consideration for them, if it just makes him a future high school dropout or a failure, what makes Mike believe they'd ever accept he's Gay?

Mike NEEDS a support system. He NEEDS parents who care MORE instead of waiting until government is at their doorstep. That type of love has not been consistent whatsoever at the Wheelers. To Mike, that kind of love cannot be found in his home. The answers to his problems cannot be found in his home. In fact, his upbringing is a big reason why he's in this complicated relationship with El to begin with. and he's accepted all that to be fine, despite us seeing how it's turning him into someone unable to manage their emotions who struggles with their relationships communication-wise.

"And as hard as they would try they'd hurt to make you cry. But you never cried to them, just to your soul. No, you never cried to them, just to your soul"

This refers to the severe bullying he faces that Mike confirms he's put up with all his life (just for it to be shut down immediately). His parents aren't aware. If Karen, his own mother, doesn't question a giant scab on his chin but some girl who is barely learning what friends are does, don't you think that says something?

"I'm here for you" doesn't mean anything if you aren't actively trying to actually be there. you have to look harder. look at what's right in front of you.

Sure, his mom hugs him! But I really hope we can all agree physical affection isn't the only thing that a child needs to trust. There is reason behind why we've never actually seen them talk about anything that's actually bothering him. Mike is not yet convinced he can go to his parents about the things we know he's facing, and the things that are implied that he's facing. Instead he handles it alone as a result of just "letting him come when he's ready."

The only adult who wasn't afraid to actually talk to him and not let his emotions bottle up was...

"Pushed around and kicked around, always a lonely boy. You were the one that they'd talk about around town as they put you down."

Part of this could be about his bullying experience in general, but I also believe this was foreshadowing for events in S5. Mike and the rest of hellfire are now targets and deemed part of a satanic cult. The whole town are against them and want them gone. Going from to feeling insecure for your 'childish' interests because of your parents, to becoming accepting of that part again, to now wanting to be killed for it by your town. Ain't that nice? Won't that gonna do wonders for this boy? :)

I actually predict they will take some inspiration next season from the hate crime scene in the music video. Perhaps The Hellfire Club/The Core Four/Mike will be attacked and Mike will be brought home/come home beaten.

In the actual music video, the boy's parents find out he's gay from that and they do not accept it.

However, in the show, I think it'll be focused on him being in Hellfire (since DND is a metaphor for gay love between Mike and Will). I imagine it'll be like, "Michael, why are you still associating with them? You know what would happen!" They'd get mad at him for essentially "walking right into it himself." This sets off conflict in the Wheeler Family this season. Mike finally snaps at them, telling them it was bound to happen anyway. He mentions the bullying he's already delt with his whole life. He sees his parents' sudden care in his life as BS and how it had to take the entire town to hate him for them to finally see him.

Another scene they could parallel within this one scene (or in another) could be Jack McPhee's coming out scene from Dawson's Creek, a show the Duffers loved growing up. We often see parallels to that show when it comes to the show's drama, primarily with the El-Mike-Will Love triangle to the Joey-Dawson-Jen Triangle. Mike is also heavily paralleled to Jack McPhee.

In the coming out scene, Jack tells his emotionally neglectful father (who is definitely worse than Ted) - "I was different. And as hard as you've tried to stamp it out and ignore it, I have tried harder than you to be quiet and to forget it and to not bother my family with my problem."

If this doesn't sum up what's going on then idk what does.

It's not that his parents hate him for what they know about him, but they also aren't supportive either. They ignore him. They ignore everything outside of their own little bubble. They close themselves from the truth of what's going on in the town. They close themselves from their kids. They push them to hide and stay quiet, but that's just not who Mike and Nancy are.

We also know we're into some Wheeler drama this season considering all the leaks with Karen/Holly(?)/Henry and the interview with Joe Chrest (Ted's Actor). So scenes like this aren't far off the table.

Mike is a character that is struggling overall with his place in the world and identity. He is struggling with his self worth, his sexual orientation, his relationships, accepting the interests that make him who he is. He is conforming to societal pressures (much similar to his parents) because he doesn't know where else to go. He is confused. He struggles with self-worth and severe insecurity. He does not feel needed unless he is actively doing someone of service to the point of sacrificing his life, much like a superhero, hence his fixation of them. Superheroes are people who are wanted, who are heard and seen - Something Mike feels he isn't.

He's growing up in a small and conservative town, internalizing the homophobia he witnesses, internalizing what he HAS to be and has to feel - He has to want girls (and yeah, believe it or not, homophobia still impacts queer people regardless who it's directed to. there's reason why we see mike's reaction over anyone else's). But he just can't, yet he still tries because otherwise that'd be falling off a "normal path." He has to get rid of his toys and grow up to keep on a "normal path." He has to conform because he fears what would happen if you don't. That's something he's unfamiliar with.

Mike needs to be finally seen by his family. His overall major struggle with conformity stems from there. It's what he needs emotionally, but it also makes sense narratively. It has to be from them. His whole arc along with them is to break free from their conformity, and it starts with the facing their truths as a family.

Mike won't end up making the choice the boy has to in the music video. In the end, he will have his family's support and acceptance. He will be able to be true to who he is. He will accept himself. He won't need to runway in fear. I do still believe he will leave Hawkins (with Will). It just won't be on a bad note!!

[lillie98]

How to Save the World—Stranger Things 5

I’ve had some time to sleep on the episode titles and think about them, read theories, etc. and I now believe they might be real.

Hear me out: Stranger Things is all about cycles, parallels, tropes happening over and over again. The Duffers love taking a moment and repeating it in slightly different ways to prove a point. The story started with “The Vanishing of Will Byers” because we needed to place a small, innocent child in the center of our story, something to bring our character together and drive them to action. Well, that child is no longer in danger and our team is ripping apart at the seams. It’s almost like we need something similar to reunite everyone and drive them to action again.

Remember: The Duffers love parallels. Will’s disappearance brought his deeply fractured family together, uniting them for a common cause. It also brought Nancy and Jon together when their families needed them most. Now, the Byers are a united front, ready to tackle any monster that comes their way. They are the glorification of the avant-gard family. Now which family is struggling? The Wheelers. The perfect, All-American Nuclear Family: Mom, Dad, 3 kids, and a picket fence. They look perfect to the outside world, but behind closed doors, they are deeply struggling. They don’t communicate, the parents have no idea what’s happening in their children’s lives, and if they’re not careful, if they don’t come together and form a united front—they’re going to lose everything, potentially causing the end of the world. (Why? I haven’t gotten that far yet!)

Now, how do we inspire them to action? Maybe by taking the child who was born to save their crumbling marriage—the one has seen everything but, up until this point, been too young to contribute. Now, she’ll be the same age Will was when he disappeared and Mike and Will are the same age as Jon and Nancy. The Duffers are trying to illustrate the idea of “The Next Generation.” This evil, this Upside Down dimension is NEVER going to stop until someone from the Wheeler and Byers families breaks the cycle. Children will continue to vanish, the world will continue to crumble, until someone steps up and says ENOUGH. The Wheelers and Byers (parents and children) must step up and face their pasts in order to move forward.

The “Stranger Things” are not only LGBTQ+ matters, they are the skeletons we hide in the closet that literally eat us alive. They are the dark, festering parts of ourselves we don’t let anyone else see. The invisible cancers that slowly and silently kill us. Until we face them head on, until we bring them to the light, they will NEVER die. Stranger Things is about owning your past, facing your fears, and finding the light again.

So yes, Stranger Things will end with Will Byers making it home from Mike Wheeler’s house on November 6, 1983, but not in a time traveling way, in a finally letting go of that scared, pained little boy who thought the world was better off without him. It’s Mike accepting his sexuality and place in his family. His role as a leader. It’s Joyce accepting love from Hopper, who must accept that he is not actually cursed, but that sometimes, bad things happen to good people, even when they think they’re doing the right thing (Vietnam). it’s Karen and Ted falling in love again and fighting to save their family. It’s Eleven discovering that love, not anger, should fuel her powers. It’s mourning your stolen childhood while stepping into the version of yourself that child never got to be. It’s stopping the cycle and creating a better world for the Will Byers and Mike Wheelers and Jane Hoppers of tomorrow. THAT’S how you become a Hero.

[emblazons]

Still thinking about how understanding what happened in the S3-S4 relational narratives requires you suspend the belief that the last two (soon to be 3) seasons of Stranger Things are designed to stand alone.

With S1 and S2, the seasons existed as standalone entities—S2 was a sequel yes, but it wasn't a direct narrative extension of the action that occurred in the season before. You could watch Season 2 with only a bit of context from the first season (one boy got kidnapped and taken by the monster into another dimension, the girl from the lab with the superpowers showed up and they worked together to save said boy, but then she disappeared and was presumed dead) and watch the second season with little issue.

Its not the same with Seasons 3-5. If anything...it helps when analyzing to imagine Seasons 3-5 as one "season" in the same way S1 and S2 exist as single entities; the Duffers have already confirmed its true for Seasons 4-5, but it gets a lot easier to follow arcs and action, particularly for the youngest characters, if you stop trying to find coherence in single-season stories and look at each season as three parts of a whole.

This is true across the board, but it's particularly true in the case of understanding Byler, both as individuals and a pairing (though the full buildup of their romantic arc will take us across all 5 seasons). Understanding why S3 feels like you just got dropped into nonsense with them specifically (after two seasons of Michael "I'm the only one who cares about Will" Wheeler and Will "I am central to the story even when I'm off screen" Byers) is because The Duffers took the risk of introducing a brand new set of conflicts to the youngest characters: namely, ongoing romantic relationships, personal identity crises and sexuality...only without resolving the conflict and action in the 8-9 episodes they usually do, which is why you feel frustrated by it.

Basically: Season Three was the season where we set up the relational problems that need to be fixed—we just have three entire seasons to work through them, which means its gonna look bad at the start and good as we work through the problem (over the course of a few seasons) to get to the solution.

forewarning: ferociously long post ahead (with headers for clarity)

Will’s Arc: A (Queer) Coming of Age

With Will, the problem re-introduced in S3 is that he feels different from his peers, and not just because he's gay; its because 1) he is in love with Mike in a way that is more genuine than we are being presented in the third season (that "sandbox" "puppy love" "break up and makeup" summer fling energy that S3 has) and 2) he is unwilling to step into the lie of "maturity" as its being presented in the story, aka giving up things like hanging out with his friends over focusing on relationships or giving up games (DnD in particular).

(sidebar: I wrote another analysis touching on the above here).

A lot of people I've met who watch the show casually say things like "it just seems like he's not able to grow up like his friends" and even "he's falling behind," but I think that's on the right track while missing the point: the reason Will is written as "refusing to grow up" is because he is the character that represents the rebellion of The Duffer's heart and interests, and both of the things that seem like they would be a bad because they make his character different in the narrative are actually surprisingly positive for his "three season" arc...if you understand what the ongoing themes of Stranger Things are.

With Will, the “problem” in the story exists because he is the one who represents being weird/the outcast/queer and not giving into the social pressure to “let go” of that—he loves another boy, is more emotional than his peers and loves nerdy things like his tabletop board game and refuses to deny that to himself, no matter how brutalizing that is for him and his feelings. In that way, he is the character who “represents” the sentiment of The Duffers themselves—he is a nerd, a child at heart, and he has no problem taking DnD and anything else into “adulthood,” (looking at you “yeah, yeah I really did” during the rain fight) the same way The Duffers have.

That said: as we move into season 4, Will is presented with an evolution of this conflict—he wants to continue to be honest with and about himself, his feelings, and his interests…but it comes in direct conflict with his understanding of his peers & Mike, whom he loves.

We see this conflict show up repeatedly in Will’s actions in S4, especially in regards to the painting, which is the physical representation of both his love of Mike and his embracing of his nerdiness. Will shows up to the airport with his painting in spite of not speaking to Mike because his heart is to be honest and true-to-self regardless of anyone else—you even see this as he takes the painting on the road when they plan on going back to Hawkins, after he makes up with Mike. The problem is though (and this plays into the whole “we want you to feel like you lost” sentiment The Duffers spoke about, as S4 is the “down” before the “up”resolution of the whole narrative) that Will he realizes that his desire to be honest is getting in the way of (his perception of) the happiness of the people he loves, so he decides to betray his character and break the first cardinal rule of The Party…to tell his first lie.

There are plenty of phenomenal analyses on other aspects of Will’s connection to Vecna/the UD and the love triangle dynamic at play across this app so I’ll leave that alone here (I do have many thoughts on why the above makes Henry Creel the perfect villain foil to Will specifically), but: for the sake of understanding Will’s relational narrative arc, it’s critical to understand that our “low” for him is the betrayal of his ongoing S3 character—and that him undermining his self-honesty, nerdiness and love for Mike are the things that The Duffers have set themselves up to resolve in S5.

The resolution for Will is to re-embrace his differences —to realize that lying to yourself and other people about who you are and what you love (both in terms of “nerdy” interests and his queerness) is not who he wants to be, no matter how hard it is to stand up for in the wake of adversity—along with embracing the power of real love, which is also an ongoing theme the Duffers have set up in their relationships beginning in Season 3.

Now…on to Michael.

Mike’s Arc: Finding Yourself & Embracing What Makes You Different

—anyone with a single toe in this fandom knows that Mike Wheeler is one of the most divisive characters in this story when it comes to deciding 1) what his motivations are and 2) what his desires will be, but (and bare with me on this)…I think that’s kind of the point of his story. Mike’s “three season” arc is about him moving through a confusion of identity into someone who can embrace himself while addressing the things he is most insecure about—namely; being seen, being useful, and (very, very likely) the fact that the person who makes him feel most secure, seen, useful and loved is another boy.

There are several context clues that give credence to the fact that the reason Mike feels so wishy-washy / lacking in depth is because his struggle is not knowing how to find his place in the world, though you have to go further back than S3 to find them. Let me explain.

From the literal pitch of the show, there has always been an undercurrent of self-doubt and insecurity in Mike; his desire to escape the weight of feeling insecure has been a driving factor in his actions since before he was even on the screen, and it is impossible to understand what motivates him without first understanding that.

With Mike, his actions across all seasons have been weighed down by his desire to escape his insecurities through action—and as he’s gotten older, what he’s used to escape those insecurities (to be someone like the paladin he plays in DnD) has evolved and shifted, ranging through everything from turning the world (no pun intended) upside down to find Will; being willing to sacrifice his life to save Dustin from bullies; using any weapon he could find to fight a baby demogorgon; and wanting to be a heroic knight who protects the perceived vulnerable girl once he starts dating Eleven.

The point is: Mike’s deepest core need is to assuage his insecurities by doing whatever he can to be a good person—and when he feels like can’t do anything or protect the people he loves…he spirals. That’s been true since the start of his character…and everyone from The Duffers to Finn Wolfhard himself has mentioned it.

Now. With that baseline established, let’s talk Season 3.

Ironically enough, a lot of people feel like Mike’s character has “fallen off” because he, by the sake of all appearances, has achieved all the things he is supposed to want—namely a girlfriend, which (at least in his mind) is the physical embodiment of successfully “addressing” his core fears.

Because Mike has all the external markings of a well-adjusted kid—he comes from a wealthy family, has a solid group of friends (who are also mostly now striving for social normalcy) and even a girlfriend—he seems to have addressed what many people even in real life believe is the end of most arcs & the fulfillment of the fantasy. For Mike, the appearance of his S3 life seems to have assuaged the fears at the root of several of his insecurities, including the desire to be needed, the desire to protect, the desire to be useful, and the desire for acceptance…all because now he’s saved El and has her at his side, and having a girlfriend means he has everything a good, well-adjusted guy is supposed to want.

Or…does it?

With how The Duffers set up the story (with S3 as the introduction of a new conflict for every major character), the answer they’re giving you based on how Mike interacts with other characters is no—having a girlfriend and acting “mature” doesn’t solve anything, especially if the core problem of you having an insecure identity while being dishonest with yourself isn’t addressed…and it’s the arc of Mike learning that “lesson” that we find ourselves dropped into moving into Season 3.

Beginning in S3, the war on Mike’s insecure self-concept comes at him on two fronts: on the one side, El, who started her journey needing Mike because of her background but now has no real need for any of the things he so desperately wants to provide as a means to validate himself, and on the other Will, whose deep familiarity and history with Mike combined with his confidence in his own identity presents Mike with a challenge of self-reflection that he doesn’t exactly feel ready for yet.

(sidebar: my post on how Mike's arc is intrinsically tied to a subversion of the "Born Sexy Yesterday" trope is a helpful expansion on things I talk about here).

We see this in how Mike gets frustrated with Max for giving El the space and language to not need him (undermining his role in her life as someone who she needs to protect/guide her); we see it in how he says cruel things when Will behaves in a way that challenges the actions Mike has taken to be “mature” (how he insults Will for not also wanting a girlfriend / still wanting to play the games that set them apart as nerds/different); and we see it in how Mike still goes out of his way to fix those relationships in the best way he can—because he knows on some level that what he’s doing in several moments isn’t in alignment with who he wants to be, even though they are both presenting him with radical internal challenges.

Ironically enough, Dustin does a great job of summarizing the two sides of Mike's internal conundrum in what he says to Steve about Robin—Mike, somewhat like Steve, is struggling between what is socially acceptable in a partner (or "cool") and what he actually wants and enjoys in one—and as El and Will evolve, so does Mike's internal conflict about how he perceives their places in his world.

Between El’s supernatural abilities and rapidly growing autonomy making him obsolete to her in all the areas that matter to Mike (see: the ability to protect, be useful, and be seen) and Will’s reminding him that at his core he is just as much of a nerd as Will is, Mike finds himself feeling more confused and insecure than ever…and that is the internal conflict we see him end S3 battling.

The evolution of Mike’s narrative arc past the introduction of this internal conflict doesn’t happen until is the Byers/Hopper move to Lenora though…when he is literally left alone to process what that intense summer brought to light for him—which is the note we're left on as we move into the next phase of Mike's evolution in S4.

In S4, the development of Mike figuring out what he wants and needs from his relationships + the kind of person he wants to be becomes a lot more external—we see him going through a series of code switches as he tries to manage the ever changing landscape of his self-perception, where has started journey toward self-acceptance but is still insecure about following through with it.

We see this in the way he has now joined The Hellfire Club and shows sincere signs of accepting his interests and "outcast" status, but still looks forlorn when Lucas says “I’m tired of being bullied / I thought you wanted things to be different too” (Lucas’ struggles with some aspects of performing normalcy the way Mike does S4).

We see it in the way he shows up to Lenora dressed in what he thinks he’s should be wearing rather than as himself / the way he continues performing his relationship with El throughout that first day (and how he says it was Will who "sabotaged" things by being that same kind of radical honest about his feelings we talked about before)...only for the events of the day to spur him into meaningful honesty with both El and Will (to varying degrees of success) mere hours later.

We even see it in the way Mike seemed to have been “turning over a new leaf” once he and El fought, to the point he was okay with them ending the “normalcy” performance of their romance…right up until Argyle’s paranoia while burying Unknown Hero Agent Man struck the fear of god back into him (aka making him worry he was letting El down by not protecting her—aka tapping into one of his core fears).

Basically: Mike is leaning into accepting the things that make him different in little ways, but is still struggling to step into that identity fully—aka he is still using perceived social acceptability as a shield, even though he no longer holds as tightly to being perceived as normal. (Even Finn himself often jokes about Mike “just trying to be normal,” which I think is a good, simple explanation of what’s happening—that said, if we take that reading and combine it with those “narrative goals” I mentioned The Duffers have earlier…Mike trying to be normal is an issue to be resolved, not an identity to be embraced. But…let’s move on).

By the time we get to the infamous van scene, we’ve watched Mike struggle through the two sides of his inner conflict for the entire season now, and felt him very gently succeed at switching into a more honest version of himself (who doesn’t need a girlfriend as a shield / can embrace his “otherness” in the same way Will does) right up until his inherent desires to be needed and useful come rearing up the second El is in danger.

It’s why we see him look pleased (but also marred with conflict) when Will looks confident, happy and radiant talking about “playing dnd and Nintendo for the rest of their lives…” and why him being honest in that scene is actually a huge moment for him, because rather than being vague about what has been plaguing him for two seasons now (trying to be “normal” just because he feels insecure) Mike is finally verbalizing the internal conundrum of his now two seasons of looking critically at his insecurities.

Now—I could spend all day digging into just that bit of narrative alone—the way Mike finally externalizing his insecurities to be processed with Will rather than acting on them and hurting people unintentionally is a giant leap for him, and how when Will says “you’re sacred of losing her” Mike’s nod is an acknowledgement that Will is right…but his face is saying there’s more to that fear than he’s acknowledging—

—but for the sake of this analysis of the narrative arcs, the van scene is most important because it’s when the S4 “it feels like you lost” moment begins for Mike…and that’s because it matches up directly with the “you feel like you lost” moment for Will: him lying about the painting.

When Will lies about the painting—saying that his feelings and the art that (as I said before) represents 1) his love of Mike, 2) his embracing of his nerdiness and 3) that radial self-honestly Mike so admires Will for—it throws a wrench into Mike’s internal revelations because Will is essentially saying that the relationship that Mike was slowly realizing he used to assuage his insecurities (his relationship with Eleven) is actually what lines up best with "who he wants to be," which throws Mike’s slow growth toward Will + honesty about what (and who) he wants to be into a tail spin.

From Will’s lie onward, Mike is thrown into moment after moment of conflicting emotions and dire circumstances as well—and given that Mike's deep terror of losing people comes up strongest when the people he loves are in danger, it’s only downhill for Mike’s growth toward self actualization from here. In that sense, (much Jonathan's S4 omissions of his truths/fears to Nancy leading to Nancy's regression into complacency / social conformity with Steve), its Will's lie that leads us directly into the “you feel like you lost” moment for Mike: him moving back into "conforming" territory and confessing his love to El in the SBP.

The monologue (at least in terms of the narrative arc The Duffers are writing) is Mike’s “losing” moment because it’s when he has enough self-revelation to realize that being with a girl as a shield for his insecurities is no longer what he wants...but the drive he has to be useful, protect and love any way he can (on top of Will’s urging + lie) leave him feeling like his only option is stepping into the person he was at the start of S3.

In this moment, we see Mike say exactly what someone who is "acting normal” about loving his girlfriend and wanting to save her would….even though romantic love with El (and the socially-acceptable romantic relationship he has with her) are not what he really wants, and what we will watch crumble moving into S5.

Essentially: Mike having a moment of dissonance of that magnitude after an entire season of looking toward Will was what set us up to see all those "external markings of normalcy" Mike has held onto and had started grating against for two seasons now fall apart, given what we know about those core messages/themes/child-at-heart values the Duffers hold and keep at the heart of their show.

As of the end of S4, we can already see how this "regression" into his old self is not going to hold—the fact that everything Mike did to save El is rooted 1) in a lie and 2) not in alignment with Mike evolving understanding of his core desires makes sure of that.

We even see the beginnings of this "low" being resolved in Mike's arc in how Mike & El are not speaking (even with the 'resolution' of their surface-level S4 conflict with Mike's love confession) and how Mike is glued to Will's side even before Vecna is mentioned–which is how we've been set up to see the resolution of Mike's arc in S5.

With all this in mind, it becomes a bit clearer that the resolution of Mike's arc is him moving through the confusion of identity we've watched him go through from S3 forward and into someone who can embrace who he is what he truly loves without fear of going against what is expected—aka finding the courage not to conform.

Mike as a character is a lesson in how doing what you think you're supposed to (aka what is "normal") is often at odds with who you are and what makes you the happiest—and the only way to self-actualize is to move past your insecurities and into someone who can be confident embracing what (and who) they really want...even when it means stepping out of line from what you’ve grown up believing would do the self-actualizing for you.

Final Thoughts

Both Mike and Will's relational arcs revolve around an embracing of what makes them different—in terms of their (highly likely) mutual queerness, yes, but also in terms of them making self-actualized peace with being nerdy "children at heart" in much the same way The Duffer Brothers themselves are.

If Will represents a person who struggles because they refuse to deny themselves their identity, Mike represents a person who struggles because they don’t understand their identity, and are walking around just trying to do whatever they can to get along (because they haven’t been presented with the inciting conflict that will move them into self-revelation & growth).

Both of these internal conflicts are narrative arcs that have been built into the coming of age stories of both halves of Byler—and though we are currently sitting at the "low" of both of their arcs as of the end of Season 4, the setup and though-line for them finding themselves (and real, honest love with each other) has been clearly set up for exploration in Season 5.

—if you managed to get through all of this, I commend you. And yes, there are a million other things to be explored between these two, but...I enjoy sorting through the thematic / "moral of the story" through-lines in all my media, so of course I was gonna do it for for Byler!

[ronnieratsdoodles]

also credit to some sources!

byler proof:

1. Will’s sexuality has been an aspect since episode 1

if it wasn’t a major point, the duffer’s wouldn’t have any reason to subtly and continuously remind the GA throughout the entire show. they never were bold about it until season 4, because of foreshadowing, which they do a lot throughout the show; with many relationships.

season 5 is when build up finally reaches its peak.

2. “i’m not gonna fall in love scene.” coming from Will Byers, breakfast scene, joyce and Will Byers conversation. season: three. episode: chapter 1: susie, do you copy?

one tiny thing they added into the scene was Will pouring syrup on his eggs, which Mike also done, meaning they likely introduced each other to it. just tiny fact.

ultimately, this scene had to have significance, it couldn’t have been written without a point, why else would they make a traumatized boy have built up longing for his best friend? to end in heartbreak? that would just be a waste of writing, planning, foreshadowing, and most importantly their frequency of slow burning. they knew what they were doing.

3.smalltown boy being the first song on Mike’s official playlist:

spotify used to have a official character playlist up for each character, before being took down (if i’m right) either that they liked or that represented their character! (what creators felt was correlated)

(taken down 2023)

small town boy is by a artist named bronski beat, that is about a young gay man bullied, deciding to run away from home. we don’t even know exactly the reason why Mike is bullied, other than his supposed ‘frog face’

5. couples being paired up on the last episode of season four, while El stood alone. many reasons why this could have happened, but it was no mistake, lay outs always have a reason film wise. 

6. multiple parallels to stancy:

again, not much to say about it, BUT stancy was a unsuccessful relationship, and Nancy ended up going with a byers, wheeler + byers. the hospital scene with the two second shoulder lean. (stancy parallel!)

7.byler funko, not mileven funko. hmm super suspicious 🤨

8.”i need you mike, and i always will” - Will Byers, van scene, stranger things four. Will is not going to fall for anyone else. he always needed Mike. while El was shown more to needing Mike, she never did as much as Will. there’s nothing satisfying about Will being with another boy, not to the audience or Will. 

9.stranger things writer quote from twitter “let’s start a new party, you and me.”

10.mikes encounters with Will being focused/zoomed in on is for a REASON.

11. at the season four reunion, why did Mike not kiss El? their foreheads touched, they were inches apart, yet he looked back at Will. that would have been a perfect scene for a kiss, so why would the creators not include it?

12. Mike and Will had the first meaningful one-on-one conversation in stranger things.

13.in both arguments, the rink-o-mania they were wearing blue and yellow. their colors. when blue meets yellow in the west. they met in california. the west. 

14. “Karen, where’s our son?!” Ted yells, in season 2. 

“Will’s!” karen yelled back, holding a blue and yellow pen. totally on accident.

15. Crazy together being one of the most romantic scenes in the entire show.

16. the multiple scenes of Mike saying “boys only” and getting kicked out by girls. and his grossed out expression in season four, episode 1, the hellfire club, by a sign in the background saying women. 

17. i love you is either platonic or lies in strangers things so far, we haven’t gotten a single i love you that wasn’t either. Will’s i am not gonna fall in love implying an actual process, it’s happening in season 5.

18.when mileven tag duffers to complain about byler, they never respond, only to byler shippers, even if it’s just a small wave emoji.

19. lighting, the creators confirmed that the lighting in each scene has a meaning. the lighting either means that it could be a way of symbolizing mikes deep care and empathy for Will in the next season, (them being on a upside down couch also empathizes/foreshadows something)

20. the creators once again were planning since the first season. season four was written in a way to begin the root Will and for byler. so, when their endgame, we will know why.

21.mileven is star crossed, (not endgame)in march, millie talked about being unhappy with El’s ending, it doesn’t show that byler is endgame, but it does show mike and El are not. in one of the season 3 scripts they referred to mileven as ‘star crossed’ in the field scene. 

if any of this doesn’t make sense i apologize, it was written for my best friend<3333

[castlebyersafterdark]

It’s amazing how the depth of ST really relies on Byler happening. Not that there aren’t other things/themes within the show (Max’s depression, being black in Hawkins, a cop learning to be suspicious of authority, the power of friendship, etc), in terms of its three central kids/now teens (Will, Mike, and El), a Byler-less season 5 would mean that the show doesn’t have much to say. And it would mean the show is ultimately fairly generic, fight the Big Bad and the evil government with superpowers fare. Sometimes I wonder if I’m too hooked on Byler endgame to the point of overemphasizing Byler’s thematic role and not being able to enjoy alternate outcomes, but I don’t think I am. Cause if Byler isn’t endgame, we’re not just wrong about a ship, we’re wrong about the show. Not to mention being wrong about the characters, specifically Mike. Like I don’t even recognize the Mike they believe in?

No, I really don't think you are I or anyone in agreement with us are being dramatic or unfounded or biased about this - Byler not happening as predicted really changes the whole story and I also am not sure what the show's messaging would be. It changes the characters completely.

How do you have Will at the end alone, without getting his love? Or, with him dead? His story has so much resting not just on acceptance because here's the thing - we know Joyce and Jonathan and Mike would accept him for being gay if that was his only secret. Will doesn't know that, but the audience (who cares about the show) know this. Or at least, has the context clues to know. THEY GAVE WILLIAM BYERS THE LINE "I'M NOT GONNA FALL IN LOVE" when one, he already is and two, not let that pay off!! And he's in love with Mike!! And Mike - his story of needed to be the hero, be needed, be himself, be allowed the grace to be different and true to himself - and that is really only allowed to shine with Will. I don't know what we're supposed to take away from the character of Mike without Byler with the show as it stands. It could have been a different arc with him and still have his arc entwined with endgame El - but what was written is so so so odd if real. Should have been written differently seasons ago. From the beginning.

Hell, even El needs Mike and Will to get together to really shine and come into her own. Her story is not about romance. If you really care about El - she cannot end the show in a relationship with Mike Wheeler. She needs inner strength without others propping her up or using her (whether for power or for a misguided stand-in for feeling needed). She doesn't need you, Mike. And you don't need her. Standing apart actually allows you to stand as equals. Right now both hide insecurities with themselves by burying them in each other in that relationship. They need each other's friendship - which neither have right now. Will needs love. El needs family/friendship. Mike needs both. The door to El and Mike also needs to be firmly shut and the door ripped off the closet.

The sexuality storyline is tied into the supernatural storyline. It kinda feels... incomplete without a way for Will (and Mike) to express that beyond just Will being gay. There needs to be weight and stakes to that storyline and he needs a love interest the audience can care about due to invested familiarity - which is why a shoehorned random townie isn't gonna do anything for Will.

There's a lot of additional value to the other arcs you've mentioned and I want to briefly highlight them as well as to emphasize how they all tie in and enhance each other. The message of being different and the power of love and friendship. Being different in a small town. How humanity's monsters are just as bad or worse as monsters from other worlds - or how those human monsters make the fantastical monsters. Something something like that, there's a lot of different takes that all lead to a similar place. It's a wonderfully assembled ensemble show, and the Byler storyline as the heart ties everything together really. What else could have been built up? It's the most dramatic and hard hitting reveal - everything swirling to a focus with Will. He started the show, he ends the show. With his happy ending - it'll be so beautiful.

[bylerbigbang]

Second Chances and Dances

Fic by @foodiewithdahoodie and art by @fluffyfangirl

Teen | 40k words

In 1988 Will and Mike promise to leave town together, except Will decides to go off on his own, and Mike is left behind. Ten years later in 1998, the two reunite with drastically different lives. Will is known in the art community and has made a name for himself outside of Hawkins while Mike has stayed on Maple Street, becoming a father to a seven month old baby girl named Bea. Both of them have questions, both of them have regrets, and both of them still love each other. But how did Mike get a baby and why did Will leave? They'll fins out and figure it out together because they're a team. And they're always going to be best friends.

gay pining, internalized homophobia, implied drinking, implied smoking, implied sexual content, Original Characters, Will Byers/Original Male Characters, Mike Wheeler/Original Female Characters, Unlabeled Mike, Gay Will Byers, one night stand, unplanned pregnancy, implied sexual content, Will Byers has powers but they’re not the focus as much, fatherhood, homophobia, homophobic slurs, f-slur, undescriptive promiscuity, depression, repression, implied underage sexual content

Read on Ao3 | View Art | View Additional Art

Read an excerpt below:

Will is staring at a blade of grass, watching some kind of bug nibble away at the green hungrily. He's comfortably lying on his belly, arms folded to pillow his head. Beside him is Mike, who rests on his back and gazes up at the clouds suspended in the murky sky. Things are starting to get normal around here. A relief and also a tad uncanny. The duo have grown accustomed to Hawkins being a combat zone, billowing darkness and spores clinging to the air, with gates opened to bridge the gap between the Upside Down and Hawkins into a hazardous merger. Seemed to be the end of times how the Party and their families felt desolate then.

"If you could go anywhere in the world, where would you go?" Mike's feathery voice is close to Will's right ear.

He must've sat up and rolled to his side just to lean in for a whisper. It's unnecessary to be this intimate, almost touching as Will internally swears at the feel of long raven curls titillating his cheek and temple all plumy. Mike's caging him in, their shadows mixing together to create one amalgamation on the ground.

"Probably somewhere far away from here."

Will casually answers, angling his head to meet Mike's pools of glistening dark brown with his own immersive hazel eyes of intrigue. Their faces are too close. The caps of their noses grazing. They've recanted personal space ages ago.

"C'mon! Be specific, Will. Imagine!"

Mike huffs cutely and Will fights to remain strong, lips tingling, ready to iron onto the boy he's pining for. His thoughts about romance are now whimsical and idealistic. Younger Will would be appalled to know that older Will didn’t believe falling in love is gross and synonymous with cooties anymore.

"I really wouldn't care where, Mike. As long as you're there with me, I'll make do."

He's honest. Will always tries to be honest when it comes to these matters with Mike. Hellish days and agonizing nights were spent with Mike planning a detailed future with Will to give them something to look forward to. Something to keep their wits amongst them as Vecna slowly gnawed at their resolve by spreading fear and chaos in the vicinity.

"Well, duh! That's a given. We can't do that again. I can't dream of moving somewhere and you're not at my side."

"As best friends, right?" Will fails to recognize the disappointed look crossing Mike's face.

"Oh. Uh. Yeah. Sure."

"What's that for? You don't wanna be best friends? Are we demoted to just friends, now?" Will teases, pretending to pout with a suspicious eyebrow raised before breaking into a breezy grin.

Mike is not catching the hint at Will's mischievous attitude. He hastily rejects such a possibility of them ever being less than best friends, a solid hand gripping Will’s shoulder tightly. The pressure is almost painful.

"No! No, no, no! I want to… I just thought…" Mike doesn't finish his sentence, teeth snatching on his bottom lip to harshly chew.

The motion captivates Will, who observes the natural pink lip color redden from Mike's nervous biting.

"Thought? Thought what?" Will inquires, drifting his eyes from Mike’s mouth. He notices Mike leaves a lot unsaid. He's nostalgic for the days when Mike would talk a mile a minute unfiltered.

"Nevermind! It's nothing!"

[id-rather-be-home]

do you think a lot of bylers try to force will into “the girl role” and mike into “the boy role”?

now obviously will is sensitive and gnc and more feminine in that regard, and mike is a leader and protective so he’s more “masculine” in that regard, but some bylers take that to mean will would always be submissive/passive in the bedroom too. what are your thoughts on this?

ooooof i feel like i may step on some toes with this one because top/bottom discourse gets on my nerves

(no hate at all to you anon though!!! just wanna make that clear first; this is a very good question!)

i think that a lot of bylers do tend to put will into "the girl role" and mike into "the boy role" subconsciously because it is fairly easy to do so! like you pointed out, will has some "feminine" characteristics while mike has quite a few "masculine" ones which makes it very easy to sort them into pre-existing gendered roles. it also probably doesn't help that mike is usually always the one to take care of and protect will and it hasn't really been seen the other way around (which i think is going to change in s5 but that's besides the point)

i think that we tend to sort homosexual couples into heterosexual roles even though i believe most of us who ship byler are queer ourselves; it's just such an easy thing to fall into because of how gender is treated in our society. if a boy is seen as "girly" then it's assumed he'd be on the bottom in the bedroom even though that isn't necessarily the case! it also doesn't help that will has, uhhh, certain Assets that make him more appealing to be on the bottom in a sexual relationship

however, i don't like when people treat sexual relationships as if they're so black and white; even when it comes to heterosexual ones where the sexual roles are pretty well defined.

do i think that will bottoms? yes.

do i think that mike bottoms? also yes.

their relationship is so... balanced and they treat one another as equals in such a way that i can't imagine they have sex only one type of way (whether that's bottom will or bottom mike). i think they would be very versatile and switch things up depending on how they're feeling that day or maybe who needs a little more reassurance and attention, things like that

that doesn't mean that neither of them have a preference for topping or bottoming. but we do not know enough about the characters in a sexual light to be able to determinedly say what their preference is - it's entirely up to an individual's perception based on what we know about them as is! i ended up in the camp that believes mike doesn't have a preference for either bottoming or topping (though he does play a bit more of a submissive role either way) because all he wants to do is make will feel good

will, on the other hand... honestly, it's something i'm still trying to decide. in my fic right now (which is where i'm exploring a lot of these concepts) he has a preference for topping BUT i can see that changing as the fic goes on and they get to experiment more with switching their roles up a little bit

however, whether or not will prefers to bottom i can't really imagine him taking a passive role in the bedroom?? even if he gets a little more submissive from time to time, he would never be passive about it

at the end of the day, nobody actually knows what these characters would prefer because we don't know their sexual preferences aside from what gender they like (confirmed in will's case, highly suspected in mike's obviously). so i think that people should be able to put them in whatever roles they want as long as they don't get mad at other people for not thinking the same as them which is... bizarre behavior if i'm to be honest

like, why would somebody get mad at me if i believe mike wheeler has a preference for bottoming instead of the other way around?

this has gotten pretty long so i'm gonna cut it off here but if you or anyone else has more questions about it, feel free to shoot them my way!

[pholiabanna]

what's on your s5 wishlist? the silly, goofy things!!!

I'M SO SORRY FOR ANSWERING THIS SO LATE finals were killing me and I wanted to wait and write a good answer to this.

First of all I'm really excited for the 4 og boys to be together again, because we haven't had one full season of them being in the same storyline yet, which I think is criminal. I really think putting them back together will bring back the season 1 feel that made everyone love this show, and I can't wait!

I'm also so excited about learning more about the upside down. The ships and characters are awesome to analyze, but I love the supernatural part and knowing that we're gonna learn what the Upside Down actually is, and why it's stuck on the day Will went missing, among other things, makes me impatient because I need to know rn.

Now I know those weren't really goofy things but I needed to put them because they are a must for me. Moving on to the silly things:

If the season takes place in 1987, the Duffers have the chance to do the funniest thing ever and include a rickroll in a creative way. C'mon, it has to happen

A lot of people are advocating for byler to get murray'd, Erica's or Jonathan'd, but I actually want them to get Argyle'd. I imagine a scene going like: Mike and Will talk about El and Mike's breakup and the camera switches to Argyle smoking a joint in the background, while he says "Whoa Wheeler you were dating supergirl? And I was here thinking you were with mini Byers this whole time, dude, that's not cool man, that's so not cool!"

I need more Erica and Lucas sibling bickering moments, they're the best

I know this won't happen, but imagine Mike's sexuality is revealed through a conversation about movies where he reveals he finds Fast Times boring af and he "doesn't understand the appeal every man sees in that movie". I mean, at this point Fast Times has become the Duffer's favorite sexuality metaphor

I know Max probably won't wake up early on, but I'd kill to get more Elmax scenes where they just bond like normal teenage girls again. Max already taught El how to stand up for herself and how to know what she actually likes, but I think it'd be so cool to see her find out what her hobbies are. I'd love to see a scene where Max just teaches El how to skate, and El keeps trying to cheat with her powers but Max tells her that's not fair.

I need Lucas and Max to go on that movie date as well, I don't care if it's impractical

Also even though I don't really care about Dustin/Suzie because they aren't a very focused on relationship, I think it'd be cute if there was a scene where they reunite in person

More Joyce, Jonathan and Will scenes together please!!!

They need to go around town riding bikes again, bring back the whole s1 vibe

Please let us see Mr. Clarke's pov, mans probably so confused every time he helped his students the town was destroyed. Also, they can't win without him and that's a fact

Troy has to show up again, only so that they beat him up and this time El breaks his leg

Alternatively, Lonnie comes back and Jonathan beats him up (with the help of Will maybe)

Nancy notices Jonathan's tendency to interrupt byler moments and puts a leash on him

I need a new iconic song tied to another iconic scene I can obsess over. Something that can top even the Running up that hill scene

Someone needs to acknowledge the fact that they are straight up calling 001 Vecna as in one of the Dnd characters, when actually he's just some guy named Henry who would probably be so confused as to why they're calling him Vecna

These are all I could come up with but I'm sure deep in my mind there's many more things I wish for and if the Duffers deliver even one of them I'll be satisfied!

[love-kurdt]

Thick Skull (byler): IV

word count: 2,068

warnings for this chapter: flashbacks to spicy experiences, coming out multiple times, internalized homophobia

Come on out with your hands up

“It just felt so real, Jonathan. Up until he said it wasn’t real… I genuinely thought it was.” Will took a hit of the joint between his fingers before passing it to his brother who was seated next to him, criss crossed on the roof. Jonathan had initially been hesitant to let Will smoke weed, but when Will approached him in a state of panic, he cast his façade of morals aside in turn for some Purple Palm Tree Delight. Will sat there with his knees bunched up to his chest, and Jonathan sat there for a moment in thought, taking a last hit for himself before placing the roach in a glass stolen from the Wheelers’ kitchen.

“I don’t want you to take this the wrong way, buddy…” he started, and Will cut him off, resting his head on his knees in embarrassment. After all, he did just tell his brother about a sexual encounter that may or may not have happened.

“No, say it, please say it. I don’t care.”

Jonathan had known about Will since the day they left Hawkins. He watched as Will hugged Mike for a few seconds longer than everyone else (and Mike reciprocating the affection without a second thought), watched Will crying in the back seat as they drove out of the only town they’d ever known as their home, watched Will sit in the living room armchair staring at El, who was on the phone with Mike for hours at a time, and watched Will frowning at the envelopes he brought in from the mailbox every week.

He patiently waited for Will to come to him, though, and that moment occurred during the night at the pizza shop. From that moment on, Jonathan made it his mission to be Will’s person. He’d no longer just be on the sidelines, smoking weed as life passed him by. He would be there for his brother… and bring the weed, too. That seemed a good enough compromise.

Will heard his brother take a deep breath before shifting to face him. He lifted his head and locked eyes with Jonathan. “Do you think it could be Vecna trying to torture you? With, like, your deepest heartache? Since Vecna targets those who are… hurting, emotionally vulnerable, or hiding something, this is probably the primary source of your pain.”

Will shrugged. “I mean, it makes sense. I just… I don’t know how this all has to do with how Mike’s been acting lately. Because everyone’s noticed, it’s not just me. And the way he kissed me during spin the bottle? The way I felt during that kiss is far from what I usually feel when Vecna’s around.”

Jonathan nodded, glancing straight ahead into the Wheelers’ front yard: infested with black, slimy vines, which had frightened them in the beginning, but the fear factor became less and less powerful as time ensued. “You sound really sure of that.”

“Yes, Jonathan, I’m sure!” Will snapped, waving his hands around in their air. “If you really want me to go into vivid detail about it, I will–”

“No, that’s okay,” Jonathan said slowly, and Will anxiously cracked his knuckles. “I don’t want you to feel pressured to tell me about something so personal. And I wasn’t doubting you.”

“Well, thank you.”

“I’m just thinking…” Jonathan continued, pulling a second joint out of his pocket and lighting it– did he have that the whole time? “If you were to come out, that would make that source of pain null.”

Will’s eyes widened. “But what about Mike?”

“What about him?” Jonathan passed the joint to Will, who took it with a grateful hand. “You would be coming out by yourself. You don’t have to include your undying love for your childhood best friend that may or may not reciprocate your feelings–”

“Oh God, this is a bad idea,” Will groaned, running his free hand through his hair.

“Why?” Jonathan asked, putting an arm around his little brother’s shoulders. “You know how loving and supportive Mom is, and Hopper would stand by her regarding literally anything. I can promise you this: we will all continue to love you, the way we always have. And your friends, Will, they’re an amazing group of people who would never judge you.”

Will opened his mouth to reply, but no words came out. He felt his eyes involuntarily welling up with tears, which Jonathan noticed before he pulled him into a tight hug.

“We’ve got you, alright? I’ve got you, Will.”

Will extended his arm out to prevent lighting Jonathan’s long hair on fire before whispering a small, “Thank you.”

Come on out with your hands up

“Hey, guys? I kind of have something to tell you.”

“What is it, honey?”

Will gulped, his eyes shooting across the table to Jonathan. He nodded slowly, encouraging Will to go on. He found all of the courage within him, and then he spoke.

“I’m–”

“Oh no, is Vecna back? Can you feel him nearby?” Joyce interrupted, worry etched onto her face. She turned to Jonathan next to her, then back at Will. Well, he got one word out… “I’m sorry, honey, please continue.”

“No, it’s okay,” Will shook his head. “I mean, not really. It kind of depends on how this goes.”

“How what goes? What do we need to do? Should I call Owens?” Hopper gripped his sandwich tightly, so much so that the condiments began slipping out and onto the plate beneath it. Will blanched, unsure of if he should proceed with what he wanted to tell his family, which now included his soon-to-be stepfather, the former chief of police.

Joyce sent daggers in her fiancee’s direction. “Stand down, Hop, let him talk.”

“Yeah, Hop, let him talk,” Eleven repeated, a slight retort in her tone. She’d taken on a more sassy persona as of late, thanks to her recent reunion with a certain redhead. Will stifled a laugh, attempting to keep the tone of the conversation serious. He cleared his throat, checking on everyone to see if the coast was clear.

“Okay. I, um… I– I like boys? I’m gay?”

Silence.

Oh God… abort! Abort! ABORT!

“Is that a question or a statement, kid?” Hopper asked in his usual gruff tone.

“Hopper!” Joyce scolded. “Shush!”

Will decided against getting up and leaving; he was in this now. “Statement,” he said, tentatively testing the waters. “I’m gay. I like boys.”

A smile spread across Joyce’s face, just as Jonathan predicted, and she extended her hand to hold Will’s. “Well, sweetheart, I’m so glad you found the courage to tell us. You are very brave, and we all love you, no matter what.”

“Really?” Will asked, shifting his eyes to Hopper. “Even you?”

“What did you take me for, kid, a bigot?” Hopper laughed, reaching over to pat Will’s shoulder. “Believe me, nothing fazes me after your mom and I went into the Upside Down to save you. You’re the same Will I’ve always known, and you being gay doesn’t change that.” Will looked over to Jonathan, who sat there with a knowing smirk. Hopper would stand by her regarding literally anything. Will made a note to himself to trust Jonathan’s intuition.

“But I’m confused, honey… What does this have to do with Vecna?”

“It’s kind of complicated,” Jonathan said. “So when Vecna targets his victims…”

I'm coming out with my hands up, ooh

“So what’s this ‘thing’ you’ve been wanting to tell us, Willy? The suspense is killing me!” Dustin called across the basement, shoveling a handful of popcorn in his mouth as he spoke. The Party’s normally scheduled movie night was afoot, and Will had told them ahead of time that he had some news.

Everyone found their spots in front of the TV: Lucas and Max on the right side, Dustin on the left, El on the floor in the middle, with Mike and Will on either end of the couch. Will tried to gather his thoughts. Lips. Deep breaths. Hand on hip. Shoulders. Tongue. Fingers in hair. Arms. He could still feel Mike’s breath against his face, the feeling of Mike’s lips on his own, then on his neck, moving down, down, down… but it wasn’t real. Mike said so in the dream. But why did he remember it so vividly? Will looked up and noticed Mike’s eyes already on him, and his face suddenly grew hot.

“It’s kind of… strange. Telling you guys this now.”

“What do you mean?” El asked, tilting her head, as if she had absolutely no clue as to what Will could be going on about. He was glad she kept it secret up until now. 

“Like, it’s definitely not as important as everything that’s been going on, but–”

“Out with it, Byers!” Lucas exclaimed, and the rest of the Party laughed, settling some of Will’s nerves. It was now or never.

“I’m gay.”

The response was immediate. Dustin rose from his spot and crushed Will in a hug, practically sitting on him in the process. Everyone else joined in on the group hug within a few seconds. Will had vowed he wouldn’t cry, but the tears were threatening to escape, for sure.

“That’s great, Will! Thank you for trusting us with that!” Lucas grinned when they all eventually pulled away. “We had no idea!”

“Dustin and Max told me Will’s closet is made of glass,” El remarked. “What is ‘the closet’? And why was Will in it?” Wait, what?

Will raised an eyebrow in confusion. Max was quick to explain.

“I mean, we had our suspicions. But we always thought that you and M–”

“We’re just glad you told us, Will,” Dustin cut Max off quickly, leaving Will puzzled yet satisfied. “We still love you and will always be your friends.”

“Thanks, guys,” Will smiled. Then he looked up at Mike.

Come on out with your hands up

Mike was happy for Will. Mike tried to be happy for Will. Fuck it, Mike was jealous of Will. He was jealous that Will had the balls to say something that personal; and Mike had seen Will’s balls, up close and personal. Will was incredibly lucky to have the confidence that everyone would still love him. Joyce, Jonathan, and Hopper had probably thrown him a fucking party with streamers, confetti, and cupcakes. He wouldn’t put it past his parents to throw him to the demogorgons the first chance they got if he ever came out to them.

Mike was the only one who didn’t join in on the group hug. Dustin had looked up in the middle of it and mouthed a quick “Get over here,” but Mike just shook his head and gave a half-assed thumbs up. Dustin gave up with a roll of his eyes, flipping the bird. Mike definitely felt guilty, that went without saying. He just couldn’t help but hate the fact that this would never be a reality for him.

Especially after what he’d done a few nights prior. He’d been kicking himself ever since. And if he were to ever come out, what would Will think? What would Will say? He’d probably assume that Mike was just into guys in general. He wouldn’t be wrong, but also… Will was Mike’s one. He was the one Mike thought about when he woke up, when he went to sleep, during every meal, every time he showered, every time he jerked off by himself in his room… and he’d ruined it all. When he had the chance to tell Will that yes, this was, in fact, real, and that this was something Mike had imagined nearly every day since they were fourteen, he told him the complete opposite. A single word. No.

Mike’s soul returned to his body when he felt Will’s foot nudge his own, and he looked up, noticing Will’s nervous expression. He’d been waiting for his approval. Shit. Mike was digging his own fucking grave. Will probably thought he was a homophobe, that he hated him, while in reality, all Mike wanted to do was–

“Yeah, Will, we’re happy for you. I support you.”

“Um, thanks, Mike,” Will replied monotonously, picking up the remote and starting up Dr. Zhivago, per Steve’s suggestion. The group’s attention settled on the television screen, leaving Mike to his thoughts, with Will right there to remind him of his cowardice.

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[thefirstlioveyou]

"i didn't want to tell you because the last time i was sick, you made me go to school anyway."

this is a subtle indicator that mike's emotional and physical needs can go ignored. although yes he's lying about being sick in this scene, the fact he saw that as an excuse his mom would buy shows you this may be insight on how he actually feels. he doesn't say things because he knows what will be said, and it's never helpful. it explains why he bottles up his emotions and hides them throughout the rest of the show. and the times he does open up, he's reminded of why he didn't want to in the first place. (and actually, the only person he can tell things without being rejected has been will)

let's explore more instances like this.

-

"i've been bullied my entire life, i understand."

"no you don't."

i get it. i don't hold this against el by any means. but it DOES still carry the theme of mike's issues being ignored. although it's not the POINT of the scene, it's still there. you can put down your pitchforks now.

this boy has been threatened to jump off a cliff and ultimately kill himself, physically bullied, verbally bullied, socially rejected. that had to have stung to hear her say that.

mike hasn't had a proper scene of how he feels about the bullying he's experienced all his life. the moment he does bring it up, it's denied.

-

"these [toys] have emotional value to me."

"don't care. throw it away. also why are you suddenly so rebellious recently? why are your grades lacking? actually, i don't care why. i won't actually bother to ask. just stop doing that."

-

"i know your dnd club is tonight -"

"hellfire."

"why don't you just call it the club for high school dropouts?"

karen not remembering the name to the club is an indication that mike probably doesn't bring the club up or his interests with his parents much. makes sense. they've made it explicitly clear they don't care about the emotional value his interests have to him. and ted's comment directly after yet again reminds him why he never brings it up in the first place.

-

"i want you feel like you can talk to me. i'm here for you."

"no more secrets. from now on we tell each other everything."

such sweet support right? now.. where are they? karen has made no effort to understand mike the way she has for nancy. and although what nancy said is technically something that goes two ways, she's the one that initiated that promise.

i still understand why she and karen are this way to him, and i don't hold it against them! mike is just as emotionally distant to nancy. the wheelers are a very complex family and i can't wait for them to be dissected like bugs in s5.

-

and as i'm typing this, i realize all this makes the subtext in the junkyard make even more sense.

"sometimes it's hard to say what you really feel, especially to the people you care about the most, because what if they don't like the truth?"

anytime mike tells someone what he really feels or thinks, it's been denied, rejected or undermined. it scares him even more that this truth has to do with his sexuality. it puts him at more risk. he's seen how people treat gay people, how brutal they can be. he's internalized all of it despite it not being targeted towards him. it pushes him further into the closet and denial.

if his parents can't even see him more than a rebellious kid with failing grades that is in a "club for high school dropouts," what makes him believe they would accept him for being gay?

if his sister and mom truly are there for him, they truly care, then why didn't they mean what they said? where are they?

obviously, they do. but in mike's perspective, what else is he meant to think from this? what conclusion should he draw? my mom and sister just told me they'll be here for me and we'll be closer, just for them to act otherwise, just for us to be even farther apart. what the hell?

[runninguplenorahills]

That’s not how in laws work.

Your brother or sister in law just means the sibling/s of your spouse and this dynamic does not work like a real sibling dynamic! That title stays between you and the siblings of your spouse, it does NOT get transferred to your siblings as well. Your siblings and the siblings of your spouse are NOT siblings in law!

Applying this to Jancy and Byler means Nancy and Will would be in laws and Jonathan and Mike would be in laws but neither Nancy and Jonathan nor Mike and Will would be in laws.

And as you said, neither of them except the existing siblings would be related to each other. As far as I know double in law weddings are also not something that’s frowned upon. There’s nothing controversial about it which means there’s absolutely Nothing to back up your claim that “they simply would not do it”.

It’s also not like we’d see Jancy or Byler get married anyway so it doesn’t actually matter at all that they would be double in laws (because you’re only in laws if you’re married. Yk, that’s why it’s called “in law”).

I also get the feeling that you’re not considering Nancy’s and Steve’s individual conflicts/scenes in s4 at all.

Very early on in the season it is established that Steve doesn’t know what he wants. He’s desperate to enter an actually meaningful relationship with a girl but there’s no girl he actually likes so he just asks out girl after girl and the dates all end in meaningless sex which frustrates Steve immensely. He wants to find “the one”, wants to get a sense of direction in his love life, and just like that the world turns to shit again and Nancy Wheeler walks back into his life. Steve longs for a time when he knew exactly what he wanted. Who he wanted. More than anything, Steve is being nostalgic in s4 because Nancy was the last girl he actually wanted and he wants to relive that feeling. He isn’t in love with Nancy, he just longs for the idea of being in love and being in a loving relationship.

Nancy on the other hand starts this season rambling about how much she loves Jonathan. She loves him very dearly but all this miscommunication between them frustrates her and makes her feel very insecure. Just like she tells Robin, Nancy is afraid that maybe Jonathan doesn’t love her anymore, that maybe he met someone else which is why she didn’t go to California. She was afraid that her visit would confirm her worst fears so not visiting was Nancy’s way of holding onto the hope that Jonathan still loves her as much as she loves him. Even so the insecurity that comes with the miscommunication and the long distance relationship in general bring sexual frustration and desperation for in person affection. I think Nancy isn’t really cut out for a long distance relationship, she needs her lover close.

And despite the fact that Nancy and Steve are not actually in love with each other, both of them are obviously attracted to each other. And desperate times call for desperate measures and that’s why Steve projects his wants onto Nancy, and why Nancy projects her needs onto Steve. That’s why we get all that sexual tension between them this season.

But there are also a couple of very important scenes in s4 that tell us that Steve and Nancy are not compatible/won’t end up together.

S2 makes it a point that Steve isn’t all that concerned with Barb’s death. Nancy is riddled with guilt and all Steve tells her is to relax and pretend like they’re normal teenagers. I’m not saying that he doesn’t care at all but he clearly doesn’t think it’s his fault that Barb died and he wasn’t actually friends with her so he lacks the need to avenge her. A need that Nancy has. Steve and Nancy aren’t on the same page about this subject which caused a lot of problems in their relationship and Nancy even tells Steve that “We killed Barb”. Now, s4 makes it a point to highlight Nancy’s trauma surrounding Barb’s death again. In her Vecna vision we see Barb dead in Steve’s pool, reminding us once again of what happened in s1 and how relevant it still is. Furthermore it shows us that Nancy has not even in the slightest moved on from it. Nancy is not coping well and considering the fact that her relationship with Steve is inseparably connected to Barb’s death in her mind this gives away that Nancy just could not handle a relationship with Steve again.

And I say this every time but the writers did not give Nancy all this trauma because her choosing Steve over Barb indirectly lead to Barb’s death only for Nancy to choose Steve again at the end of the story! What kind of conclusion would that be? An unsatisfactory one. An illogical one. A bad one.

Moving along, we have the 6 little nuggets speech from Steve which was not well received by Nancy. I guess the sentiment touches her in some way but she makes it clear that this is not the future She wants. 6 kids sounds like a nightmare to her and when it comes to having kids and what you want your future to look like you really should be on the same page which isn’t the case with Nancy and Steve at all. Steve’s speech is there to show us that these two aren’t compatible.

At the end of the season Nancy reunites with Jonathan who kinda tries to clear up what’s been going on (we couldn’t risk contact) and it ends in an embrace which is followed by Steve disappointingly looking down and Robin comfortingly looking at him as they walk away. It clearly shows us that Nancy was just passing time with Steve until Jonathan came back. It’s like spending all that time with Steve, becoming more and more aware of how incompatible they are made her long and miss Jonathan even more. Even so obviously not everything is sunshine and daisies between Nancy and Jonathan. They have problems in their relationship that s4 did not resolve which they still need to work through but I think they’re gonna work through them together as the last shot of the season foreshadows. You simply cannot claim that that shot foreshadows byler endgame only to then turn around and say that jancy will break up. That doesn’t make any sense.

Now, the only question that remains is why Eddie said that Nancy jumping into the water to save Steve was an act of true love. That’s what you’re confused about right? And I get that. It is kinda confusing but I actually think that s4 including Eddie’s line pretty clearly sets up Steve’s arc for s5 which is realizing that there’s more to life than romance.

Steve forces himself to go on dates with girls he doesn’t like because he’s so caught up in wanting romance even though he doesn’t have anyone he wants romance with. Steve isn’t in love. He just wants to be. He just can’t be happy if he’s single and that’s not healthy! Steve needs to learn that he doesn’t need to force romance if he doesn’t have it at the moment. He needs to learn to be content with not being in a relationship and above all he needs to learn that platonic love is just as meaningful as romantic love. Even more important in his case because the romantic love doesn’t actually exist at the moment. Nancy jumping into the water to save Steve is just as much an act of true love and just as meaningful if it’s platonic (which it is) and Steve needs to realize that. His 6 little nuggets are right there and Steve has to realize that (yes he even says that he had good practice for having future kids but he doesn’t realize that his dream is already true and that without him having to be in a romantic relationship. Not that he doesn’t deserve to be and I do hope some day he will meet the right girl, but his vision is so blurred with this obsession with romance that he doesn’t see what’s right in front of him).

I also think that the way Steve and Nancy’s connection is set up hints at them becoming friends instead of lovers. Steve and Nancy dated for about a year, broke up, didn’t have much contact for another year and then got back into contact. And that to me looks l a lot like exes becoming friends after having kept their distance for a wile due to their breakup. Nancy seeing Steve in a different light now (as she expresses to Jonathan at the end of the season) is her being ready to be friends with him, not falling in love. Though I don’t think Jonathan can tell (he’s obviously jealous when Nancy talks well about Steve) which will most likely be one reason for conflict between Nancy and Jonathan next season.

Stancy is going to be endgame. (probably)

Listen, okay. I don’t want it either but if you look at the straight facts it’s the only one that makes sense, unless Steve and Jonathan, el and will, Mike, or Nancy die. Which I don’t think any of you want

Let’s lay out the facts from season 4:

Jonathan will not be going to collage with Nancy

Jonathan also plans to slowly break up with her

Nancy and Steve rekindle their ‘friendship’

Steve confesses he can’t see himself with anyone else but her

“He’s actually not that bad”

Obviously they’re trying to hint at the breakup. I’m thinking this is a right person wrong time type of situation, but I think it goes deeper as well and may have accidentally been an accident.

Because hopper and Joyce are together now and because el was living with the Byers’s they became “family”. Jonathan and will call el their sister.

With Nancy and Mike also being siblings, this causes some problems.

If Nancy and Jonathan stay together and end up getting married, will and el, and Mike, now all become in laws. (Brother in law, sister in law) which would mean no matter what happens in the end (mileven or byler) they will still be in laws which happens sometimes in real life and yes they’re not actually related, BUT to put it in one of the highest ranking tv shows of our generation just isn’t possible. They simply would not do it.

And why would they rekindle romance between Nancy and Steve if it didn’t lead somewhere???

We know for a fact (probably) that Steve and Nancy or Jonathan and Nancy, and will and Mike or el and mike will happen (1 out of the two on each) and the only one that makes sense in my opinion is Steve and Nancy and mike and will because I think el is going to die (I can explain in a different post).

If both el and will die however, Jonathan and Nancy live happily ever after. So if you want them together that bad pray for that.

(There are all just my predictions but I’m pretty sure I’m right)

[deliriumsdelight7]

For people who have a problem with this, I invite you to look through the older Stranger Things tags. There’s aged-up Mileven smut from 2016 - when Finn and Millie were, what, thirteen? Fourteen? The smut is of them as adults. I invite you to really think about why you’re so dead set that this is wrong.

This happens in every fucking fandom with young characters. There’s smut for all of the main characters from Avatar: The Last Airbender - characters who range from twelve to sixteen years old. There’s smut of the Harry Potter characters, both as teens and as adults. This is common, and it’s not fucking problematic. We were all children once. To say that a character cannot be allowed to experience sex as an adult because they were a child in canon is ludicrous.

Also, there’s a lot of hypocrisy going on here. Why are you all going after Phoenix when the Stranger Things fandom is full of people writing smut involving underage characters and/or actors? There’s smut of Eleven and Hopper from season 2, when the two of them were living in the cabin together. Have I read it? No. Do I want to? No. But Eleven was twelve when that happened, and I don’t see any of you going after that author. I don’t see you guys going after that camp counselor fic writer, for that matter. If you guys are going to come after Phoenix for writing smut of Erica - something I’m pretty sure she hasn’t even done yet - then I’d better see you combing through the Stranger Things tag on AO3 from 2016 on for Mileven, Byler, Lumax, Dustin/Suzie, and any other ships involving the kid characters. Or better yet - try to understand that this shit happens in fandom.

In fact, this shit happens in canon! Nancy Wheeler had sex in season 1, when she was a sophomore - say, fifteen years old? Dustin heavily implies that he’s seen Suzie topless in season 3. Hopper had the “door open three inches” rule when Mike came over because he knew that his teenage daughter and her boyfriend were sexual beings. I keep hearing this rhetoric that “there are minors on Tumblr/AO3.” Well, there are minors on Netflix. I don’t see you guys baying for the Duffers’ blood for writing about child abuse, teens in sexual situations, teens being murdered, or a child torturing small animals and murdering his family. Where’s your outrage for them?

Look. I am a smut writer. I’m also a kink writer. Bonus fun fact: I’m asexual. I write smut scenes for kinks that I have no interest in trying, and ones that I’ve tried and don’t care for. I’ve also written scenes where a character ruthlessly murders an innocent person without remorse. And just for funsies, let’s add that I basically spent my teenage years reading smutty Harry Potter student/teacher fanfic. And yet… here I am. I’ve never killed anybody. I’ve never been inclined to fuck a teacher, or anyone I’m in a position of power over. I don’t like getting spanked and period sex does nothing for me, but I’ve written scenes of those things. Writing something does not mean that you condone that thing, and consuming that media isn’t going to magically brainwash you into thinking that those things are okay. And I’ll add - yes, I was a minor knowingly going into adult spaces. That’s not on the people who wrote the fanfics, or the people who hosted the website. That’s on me, and on my parents for not monitoring my internet use.

Jesus Christ, people. You sound exactly like the “concerned parents” of the eighties who said that metal music made kids violent, or the ones who said that video games caused the Columbine shooting. It takes a hefty amount of media illiteracy to watch season 4 of Stranger Things and engage in the exact same Satanic Panic rhetoric that got Eddie killed.

Do you not realize that Priah Ferguson is a minor and even if you age up Erica it is wrong to write smut about a character portrayed by a minor?

No, because I’m not writing about Priah Ferguson. I am writing about an imaginary character created by the Duffers and envisioning her as an adult or how Erica might be in high school.

There is nothing wrong with this. Because Erica Sinclair does not exist. She is fictional.

We can write Erica as a a 17 year old, as a 29 year old, as a 57 year old, and it’s absolutely fine. Because it doesn’t matter. Writing what we imagine Erica might be like? Is not wrong. When you’re trying to assign real life moral rules on characters who do not exist you are limiting yourself in a really stupid way.

Man. You really wouldn’t have survived the Harry Potter fandom in its heyday if you’re whining about aging up characters for fic.

[emblazons]

honestly the funniest part of the whole 'we can't know until someone says it out loud, and until then any and all interpretations COULD be right' is that no one says shit like that about other media or major plot twists in the making without also getting flack for it from people who have done the digging required to understand the show. I've literally only seen that happen here...and the AoT fandom lmao.

To me, "he's not confirmed gay yet" has the same energy as someone who (back in the day) caught themselves watching Game of Thrones (having not read the books, rewatched the entire show in full context or even watched more than scene packs of their favorite character while their headcanons) and saying "Well, Jon Snow isn't confirmed as a Targaryen yet so we can't know for sure" at the start of S7 despite 2.5M lines in the novel AND the show pointing that direction, and people knowing it was true with (what people in this fandom would call) "unwarranted" full confidence in their interpretation.

In GoT, Jon Snow was a Stark-Targ the whole entire time—from day one second one he was on your screen. The creators of the show even had GRRM ask them if they could figure out who Jon Snow's parents were (WITH SOLELY CONTEXT CLUE FORESHADOWS) before he would give them permission to make his books into the show...and yet people acted (and act here) as though something not being said out loud in-plot yet changes the reality of the character and the narrative...or makes people catching it beforehand less valid.

GRRM is even an influence for the Duffers...and people still act like they wouldn't do the exact same thing with Mike Wheeler's arc? ☠️

People might think these examples are different, but...they really aren't (and the only reason you think so is because its about a different queer kind of slow-burn reveal).

In GoT, conversations Jon had with Ned Stark set up that reveal in the goddamn first episode (much like Mike's specific care for Will), and context clues across the show had people knowing it was coming (like Mike's "love interest" being repeatedly compared to Will & a boy, his coded convo with Karen, and even closet imagery) long before it happened in the show itself.

Jon Snow's lineage and its effect on the story didn't change because less analysis-driven watchers finally figured it out S7....same as Mike being gay isn't subject to us needing them to "say it out loud directly" come S5. People arguing "well it could be something else, we don't know yet" with people who understood foreshadowing + had dug DEEP into the lore through analysis and research over Jon Snow probably caused the same kind of ?????? with people who did their research as "gay Mike" does here....even if it means putting headcanons and hopes that Mike had real romantic feelings for El (solely because you think it would be 'sad' if he dated her with no real feelings at any point) on the back burner.

Basically: Theres a reason most analysts in this fandom have all landed in the same camp about Mike Wheeler not liking girls—and its because that's what they're foreshadowing. Mike being in the closet as a protection mechanism plays into both his evolving relationship with Will and his conformity arc....and his lack of attraction to girls is the crux of why he feels he needs to conform and hide.

Like. That isn't me hating on your headcanons or saying you can't headcanon Mike as bisexual. I think fandom is a phenomenal space to explore things that aren't "canon fact," and its weird to me that people think they're one and the same.

Even so...canon Mike Wheeler has been gay the whole time...same as Jon Snow was always Aegon Targaryen, son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lianna Stark. That is what a lot of us are trying to say, and why people get so confused when you act like catching & pointing out blatant foreshadowing of a certain sexuality is somehow tantamount to insult.

Now, if you think we've all interpreted it wrong, that's a fair thing to point out. But acting like we're wrong for being sure of how we've contextualized the evidence solely because it "hasn't been said aloud" is...well. Maybe examine why people being self-assured and able to fully field criticism/bring up evidence to refute the points you're making analytically causes you such hardship lmao

btw the reason why I’m so confident about gay mike isn’t because I think I have some sort of magic, fortune-telling, future-seeing powers that allow me to fully predict s5: it’s because there’s heavy HEAVY amounts of evidence to indicate gay mike REGARDLESS of what happens in s5. Mike isn’t going to become gay in s5- he’s been gay the ENTIRE TIME.

people seem to have some strange ideas about what counts as ‘confirmed gay,’ and while I do think mike will be confirmed gay in s5, my gay mike analysis doesn’t hinge on that although I do talk about it sometimes, it’s not the foundation on which my analysis of him being gay is based. even if we NEVER got s5, mike is clearly written as gay already.

like going back to what counts as ‘confirmed gay,’ people were SO sure that will was gay before the duffers confirmed it and it’s NEVER been verbatim ‘confirmed’ in the show in the way that some people expect gay mike to be confirmed. will didn’t have to say ‘I’m gay’ for people to know that he was gay before the duffers confirmed it, so why should mike? by some peoples’ standards of gay confirmation, will is not confirmed gay in the text of the show. but he is. because we can analyze the way he’s written. and the reason why people struggle to see this with mike is because they’re looking at mike and gayness through a will lens, I got an ask forever ago that I answered about ‘well if mike is gay why isn’t he presented like will,’ and the thing is, we can conclude that mike is gay specifically BECAUSE he isn’t presented the same as will. think about it. if mike still had his same storyline with dating El AND his sexuality was presented the same way as Will’s (framed around attraction to men rather than framed around lack of attraction to girls), mike would seem bi because we would see his attraction to men but not the lack of attraction to girls. and if they got rid of El and just had mike be exactly the same as will with no girlfriend and the presentation of his gayness framed mostly around attraction to men, then they would be the same character AND it would be inaccurate/boring because gay men aren’t a monolith. they didn’t want to make Mike bi which is why they DIDNT present his gayness the same way as Will’s and keep the El relationship storyline and they DIDNT want to make mike gay in the same way as will and remove the El relationship because that’s the same character copy-pasted and provides a more narrow depiction of gay men. that’s why mike’s gayness is presented as being framed around a lack of attraction to girls- because that’s necessary to demonstrate his gayness in spite of his relationship with El.

Mike Wheeler is gay. He has been gay since the start. He is gay right now. He will be gay in s5 but being gay in s5 isn’t the only/core thing that the existence of his gayness/analysis of his gayness hinges on. They have been showing us the gay mike storyline tm since season one episode one.