#WHEN WE SAY 'HEY DON'T DO THAT' IT'S NOT COMING FROM A PLACE OF CENSORSHIP IT'S 'HEY YOU'RE GONNA GET STUNG WE DON'T WANT THAT.'

[eclipsecrowned]

goes into tags for one of my fandoms. watches that one fandom's wheel of fortune swing back around to 'why are m*rder hornets building nests on my blog?'

[beatrice-otter]

completely unsurprising to see you out here whipping up a harassment committee to try and force the otw to let you harass people on AO3 into deleting fics for ships you don't like. don't you have anything better to do, you ridiculous anti?

This is the sort of thing you get as a white person when you try and point out racism in fandom. Imagine how much worse it is for people of color, especially Black people.

But also, let's note the irony here.

There is a long and extremely well-documented pattern of racism in fandom, and fans of color being harassed by white fans, that goes back ... pretty much as long as fandom has existed. For a lot of fans of color, they have exactly two choices: they can swallow down all the racism (from microaggressions to major in-your-face aggression) and allow it to continue ... or they can point it out as a problem. In which case white supremacists in fandom will try to destroy their lives for daring to challenge them.

AO3 is not the primary place where such harassment happens (because communication between people is so limited), but it does happen, and AO3 has historically been really really bad about dealing with such harassment when it gets pointed out to them. AO3 was founded by a majority-white group, and they had a massive blind spot about fandom racism. AO3 has historically not made any distinction between "this fic is about a harmless kink that someone got offended by, but this other fic is active and targeted harassment designed to hurt people." These two things are not the same, and shouldn't be treated the same.

In 2020, AO3 admitted that they had a problem, and announced that they were going to change some things to do better. Those things included practical tools like muting and blocking (which they have since rolled out the first stages of). The promised changes also included things like hiring a diversity consultant to help them figure out what of their organizational culture and policies should change, and looking at the Terms of Service and abuse policies to see what could/should be changed.

AO3 put out the practical tools, but has not addressed any of the other things they admitted were wrong.

A bunch of people think that AO3 should keep their word and want to know what they've done in the last three years. Notably, that is the extent of the pressure. @end-otw-racism has explicitly said multiple times that they are not advocating for any specific policy, whether censorship or banning people from AO3 or any other, they just want to know what AO3 has spent the last three years doing, and what conclusions they've drawn, and what their plans might be going forward.

I reblogged their posts a couple of times, and made one (1) post that had a summary of why this is an issue, with links to a couple of other people who had done much deeper dives into the issue of fandom racism and racism on AO3 specifically. In that post, one person was referenced (but not named) with a link to some discussion of things that they had done. This person was referenced solely as an example of why the policies and procedures needed to be looked at, because they were in charge when those policies got written. I included no details about them or what they had done, and certainly nothing saying people should go harass them; I just linked to enough information for people to decide for themselves if that was a person whose judgment they trusted to come up with fair policies. And said, "hey, it's messed up that people get harassed over this, if fandom were less racist and if AO3 had better abuse policies, fewer people would be harassed."

You come into my inbox on anon to harass me with all sorts of blatantly and obviously untrue things (including that I'm trying to stir up a hate mob to harass people), for daring to say "hey, there's a racism problem, we should do something about that."

Thank you for proving my point! My entire point was that there is a racism problem in fandom, and racists harass people who dare to talk about it, and you showed up immediately to harass me!

If anybody is wondering why the lovely folks behind @end-otw-racism haven't linked their fannish pseuds to the blog pushing for accountability, nonny here is why. If one post brings people out of the woodwork like this, imagine what organizing the effort would do.

But also, if you're wondering "well, nonny has a point, why did you link to a place where someone could learn the name of the person you're accusing of racism if you didn't want to harass them?" here's why:

When people in fandom talk about racism and don't specifically name names and link to publicly available facts, there is a wave of people who don't believe, many publicly. "If that were true, I would have seen it!" (you didn't want to see it and/or your whiteness insulated you from it.) "If that were true, they wouldn't have vagueblogged, they'd have named names!" And then people harass you for stirring up trouble when there's no proof of anything wrong. If, on the other hand, you do name names and link to publicly available facts, you get a wave of people like nonny here claiming that pointing out racism is the same as harassing the people who said/did the racist thing. There is nothing you can do (short of being silent) that will prevent people from harassing you. But if you do name names and post links, then at least some of the people who follow those links will go "hey, you're right, that is messed up."

On the subject of censorship, it's important to remember that there's a difference between free speech (which usually doesn't harm actual people or incite harm and should be protected even if you don't like it or find it gross) and hate speech (which is harmful to actual real people and thus should not always automatically be protected). The people most invested in calling it censorship when you reject/limit hate speech, and making hate speech have exactly the same protections as other expressions of free speech which do no harm, are racists and fascists.

But I also want to talk about the irony of you calling me an anti. Because that's the thing that tipped your harassment attempt from annoying to funny (as someone who rarely receives hate).

Antis are "anti-shippers," (aka "feelings yakuzas"). When they see something they don't like in fandom, they want to stop it and drive the people out of fandom who do it. But they know that if they name accurately the thing they don't like, the vast majority of people will not support them. Usually because the thing in question is harmless. So in order to get people on their side, they do two things. First, they find a way to twist the thing they don't like until they can conflate it with something that is harmful (like pedophilia). Second, they take that harmful thing and accuse anybody who disagrees with them of being that thing. So, if you don't agree that shipping a 17 year old and an 18 year old is wrong, you're a pedophile, and they are perfectly justified in harassing you and spreading lies about you because they are saving children from a pedophile.

As for whether I am an anti, a cursory search through my blog will reveal regular and frequent reblogs of stuff about how absurd and harmful anti rhetoric is, and why censorship is bad. And why people can ship whatever they want regardless of whether I personally like it.

You saw something you didn't like (a request for accountability for how AO3 is working towards anti-racist policies). You knew that if you honestly named what I was doing, people would not agree with you that it was bad. So you twisted that into something else that is harmful (a call for harassment and censorship of people who shipped things I don't like and being an anti). Then you used that as an excuse to harass me.

It is exactly the anti playbook. Step By Step.

You, kiddo, are the one using anti tactics.

[the-messenger-hawk]

Since the new chapters are officially being posted now, I can finally actually talk about them, so to start with: Gustang's Censorship War!

We're given a bit of Traumerei talking with the King first, and they are so shy about showing his face now (weirdly enough, if you think about it, Zahard only inserted a portion of his power into the Hidden Floor--he still hasn't physically gone anywhere or done anything).

Despite putting out a potential kill order on the Poe Bidau family, the King still wants to avoid open conflict with them and Traumerei agrees to contract for him instead. The other families are mentioned as being "too powerful" to get involved so he might be trying to reduce chaos from the war? Maybe?

Then Traumerie says that he wants to "test" Bam to see if he has the potential to "become one of them." Which is like...

He might be referring to the position of Family Head, but the framing doesn't make it seem that way. It could have something to do with whatever 'changed' the warriors in the past, or their mysterious contract with the Administrators. Either way, there's definitely something there that we don't have context for.

Although I do kinda think that Traumerie's plan might bite him in the ass in the end because Zahard straight up did not tell him that he knows who Bam is and tried to murder him. Like, that's a pretty big thing to keep your friend out of the loop of.

(There's still that popular headcanon of "Traumerei had some personal issues with Arlene" that Zahard could be avoiding...)

Then we move back over to Khun's perspective and we get to hang out with Hwaryun for a bit (as usual exercising her "fuck the rules" abilities), before getting yonked out of the prison by Rachel and the creep. We do get some brief commentary on the war, like how most people in the Tower have never seen war before, so ofc its scary. (There aren't many who have? Flashback to Jinsung telling Maschenny how she has no idea what she's getting into with the warmonger behavior.)

And then we get to the real issue: censorship!

Specifically, Khun gets entrapped into reading (or attempting to) a banned book for a live audience! And its juicy too

(hey I wanna read it too, fork it over)

Not for nothin, but I believe this book may in fact be talking about the Red-Light District. That place was actually mentioned to have been burned to the ground and was not public knowledge, which reeks of a cover-up. The fact that a banned book is talking about the Prince makes since that information about the place is in there (and maybe what about it was so bad that it needed to be destroyed). But we're not allowed to see the text; Khun gets big mad cause he thinks its bullshit before cops burst in to arrest everybody.

Khun ends up back in prison and treated to some classic frame-job nonsense which was clearly the plan from the beginning. Skip to his conversation with Rachel lording everything over his head and performing some class gaslighting bs when Khun questions her about the book's legitimacy.

She says its bullshit too, but we know she's a fuking liar! we had a whole chapter of her psychologically tormenting one poor guy over it!

She is trying so hard to pretend that she didn't play mindscrew games with Wangnan, but I remember. Who knows when those crimes will come to light, but they have to eventually.

Then she asks where Bam is, which is like: "lol why do you care, you don't even want to see the guy." Is she afraid that he's going to burst in heroically to ruin her fun or something?

And this finishes off with an announcement of Gustang's public reading, wherein he will declare war, which we all knew was coming.

[not-terezi-pyrope]

Hey, so.

I think you had a point, about NSFW art.

Artistic censorship is a massive issue, and the dwindling places where it can be posted is a real issue. There's a reason that AO3 is such an important website - the same thing happening to NSFW art happened to slash fic. AO3 was created and now it protects NSFW/slash fic from being removed from the internet.

Art needs it's own site like AO3, set up for the purpose of archiving and protecting NSFW art, and not a social media site subject to the whims of advertisers and whoever else is paying the bills.

But using the Burrito Test outside it's context of the institutionalism of disabled people was a misstep.

I don't think you meant to be ableist, at all. I don't think you are. I just don't think you thought about it, or really understood what the Burrito Test means to the disabled community.

It's not an analogy, really, firstly. And it isn't just that it's a legitimate thing, that if you're -not allowed- to exercise your autonomy as an adult to just get up and make a burrito on a whim at 3am, or go to bed when you want, that you're not really living in a care home, you're in an institution, and your "care" is more abou the convenience of abled people than the quality of life of disabled people.

It's that its like a sample of what it is to live as a disabled person. It's like the experience of being disabled concentrated: infantilisation, humiliation, artificial limitations, lack of accessibility, being helpless and vulnerable to the people who are supposed to support us.

Disabled people are angry, and the Burrito Test is like a wound. You said you had a lot of people telling you graphic stories about what it was like for them to be forcibly instituted, so you can see how it's honeslty just a huge source of trauma for some people.

It was a mistake to try and make an equivalent analogy from the Burrito Test. And maybe you didn't know that, and it's unlikely that people who've never heard about it would know why it was a mistake, so you didn't start getting pushback until it came to the attention of the disabled community. And chronic pain causes people to be short-tempered and grumpy, in a way that's really hard to fight against.

I'm not trying to scream at you about it here, and I hope this isn't coming across as condescending, because I don't mean it that way. I'm just trying to show you why it got the enflamed reaction that it got, and explain why using it in that way was wrong, even if you didn't mean to do it.

I think it's easy to forget that people who aren't in the disabled community don't just know about the stuff we talk about all the time. If you wanted to know more, and I know your experiences might have soured you on us, but you could try looking through the cripplepunk tag, if you wanted to, to give you more context, maybe.

You kinda put your finger into a wound you didn't need to poke at with that post, and people lashed out at you.

I don't think you're evil. I don't agree with people telling you to kill yourself or swearing at you. I think you did the right thing pointing out that NSFW art needs a place to be hosted online.

I don't think you would have said what you did if you'd known how sensitive the Burrito Test and it's related topics are to the disabled community, and I don't think I'm wrong about giving you that benefit of the doubt about that. I hope I'm not.

I don't know if that's context and explanation enough for you to understand why your post got the reaction it did, or if you feel inclined to retract and/or apologise, but at least you know.

Drop me a line if you want to talk? IDK.

I don't know man. I get what you're saying, I really do. But at the same time I have friends who are also physically disabled saying, "the way people are treating you here is fucked up, what you said was absolutely fine if you don't take it in deliberate bad faith." I'm not sure I buy that this is the reaction of "the disability community", as it seems to be pretty much relegated to a particular clique who followed crippled-pvp, and given what sort of bile said clique was willing to throw at me, how far they were willing to pervert and distort my words, I don't feel like they are the authoritative source for what lens this should be viewed through.

In fact, I'm not sure that I will trust the judgement of anyone who claims that they way I was treated here was deserved, or that there is an understandable excuse. "People with chronic pain can be angry and are quick to jump on an outlet for that anger" feels like more a condemnation of them than of me. I have understanding and I have empathy, but there's no excuse for treating other people like shit. There's no excuse for using their negative reaction to being treated like shit as further impetus to treat them like shit.

I will accept that for a lot of people that post wasn't helpful, or that the wording could potentially rub them the wrong way. I will apologize for that, but I don't really think that it is particularly my fault either. Enough people have contacted me now and told me that they found the framing I used helpful, or that it validated their own emotions by drawing parallels to when they themselves had been institutionalised, that I don't think it's accurate or fair to point at what I said and call it "wrong" or abstractly ableist, even if I do accept that the misreading people are complaining about was perhaps inevitable as the post blew up.

I also definitely don't think that it is wrong to make comparisons between modes of rhetoric. "Mentioning a thing" and "mentioning the rhetorical mechanism of a thing" aren't in and of themselves crimes or bigotry or whatever else I am supposedly guilty of here. Specific rhetorical ideas are not the claimed territory of any specific community. If I am guilty of anything, it's of not including adequate disclaimers to clarify my meaning, and I loathe the implication that by not doing so I invited this harm.

[quietwingsinthesky]

(Hey if you don’t want to have this discussion then it’s perfectly ok! :))

So personally as a leftist and a feminist I find it very hard to navigate online spaces that are left-leaning and also involved in media of any kind, because these types of people/communities often demonize and denounce things as "morally wrong" that I don’t necessarily agree with. A lot of this includes what would be considered "proship" fiction (as in themes of incest, abuse, pedophilia, necrophilia, etc) but also real life things like CNC, DDLG or age gaps.

My dilemma is I’m kind of torn between the two, because on one hand I’m a very big believer that adults should be able to do whatever they want with each other as long as it’s consensual & sane, and obviously fiction is not reality so you can’t apply real life morals and values to it, but on the other hand I know this often makes you look or sound like an abuser/pedophile apologist, and in the worst case, makes you seem unsafe to certain individuals.

Admittedly, I’m a little guilty of being prejudiced myself still, because for me it’s way more uncomfortable to talk about being anti-censorship when it comes to content like pedophilia, as opposed to graphic violence or even incest, even though all are fictional. This bias also extends to me disliking having to defend media that basically just portrays incest or pedophilia as "porn without plot", because it’s way easier to justify nuanced and complex fiction utilizing these topics having the right to exist, even though both portrayals are valid just the same and you can’t pick and choose.

I just wanted to know if you have any in-depth thoughts & views on this, or opinions about where (or whether or not in the first place) there should be lines drawn when it comes to fiction or tolerable/defendable relationship dynamics in real life. Hope this doesn’t bother you, if so just ignore!!

Apologies. This is going to get long. You brought up a lot I'd like to discuss.

First, I do want to tell you that it's okay to be uncomfortable. You're not somehow doing anti-censorship wrong just because you don't like certain pieces of media. No one is, or should be, telling you that you have to open up to reading or seeing stuff, just because you also don't think it should be scorched off the face of the Earth. These are uncomfortable topics. They are not for everyone. That's okay.

So, what we're going to do for the sake of this discussion is pretend that the internet isn't the way it usually is and instead that when we're discussing what to do about these topics, we are discussing actual portrayals of them and not say, 'this is a media/ship i don't like and therefore will accuse of being the worst thing i can think of.'

The most basic way to look at it, especially since you brought up real life relationship dynamics, is "Who is being harmed by this?" Incestuous abuse in real life is going to hurt the person being abused. Pedophilia is going to hurt the child being preyed on. Writing about these things, on the other hand, does not hurt anyone. If I post a fic about one character getting another drunk in order to rape them, when I'm finished with that fic, there will be no one waking up the next morning realizing they've been assaulted. They're only words on a page.

(You also brought up age gaps and BDSM dynamics such as CNC or DDLG, and these would follow the same logic. Who is being hurt? You may disagree with an age gap from the outside, but if the younger person is an adult, they have a right to their autonomy. (If they are a minor, I think the problem there is obvious. There is no consent there.) I'm making an assumption here that the kind of age gaps you mean are say, 18-25 year olds with people who are much older than them, and not 60 year olds shaking up with 80 year olds. If we say that someone who is 18-25 does not have the ability to choose the kind of relationship they want to be in, we risk drawing into question what else they have the ability to choose. For me, as a trans person, staring down the barrel of a gun that says 'you shouldn't be allowed to transition until you're 25', that is a horrifying prospect. Autonomy is a human right. The ability to make decisions, even poor ones, is a human right. The focus should be on creating support systems that allow for recovery for poor decision making, not taking away the ability to make any decision altogether. As for BDSM dynamics, if someone is getting hurt, that's not the fault of the dynamic. CNC has Consensual in the name for a reason; the whole point of proper BDSM is that both individuals want to participate in this roleplay. No one is harmed by consensual play.)

When I think about where the lines should be drawn in fiction, I think a lot about my own work. I write about the things you brought up, and I post them, and I go seek out similar works to read when I'm too tired or don't have the ideas to make it myself. I will defend the right for these things to exist until my dying breath. They are not pretty, they are not always written perfectly or in a respectful way nor were they intended to be in the first place, and sometimes, yeah, they are just weird porn. As a weird porn maker myself, you'd be surprised the level of thought that goes into what appears from the outside to be thoughtless horny writing. Somewhere, someone decided to create these things. That person is real. The things they are writing about are not. In drawing a line, any line, in what can be made, the only person that gets hurt is the writer who wanted to make it.

I see it get brought up a lot that everything should be allowed to be written except for "illegal things". Oftentimes, what this actually means is specifically just fiction including incest or minor/adult relationships (note: personally, I think it is reductive to call fiction about minors in sexual situations 'pedophilia'. I think this dilutes the term and is disrespectful to people who have actually been victims of sexual abuse as children.) which, yes, would be illegal in real life. But so would murder. We do not (or, god, I hope that isn't discourse going on under some rock I haven't uncovered yet) claim that it makes you someone who secretly wants to kill people if you write a murder mystery. Marvel movies aren't snuff films. Legality is a poor choice for how to determine what should be written about, and that's not even bringing up how being queer is still illegal most places in the world. (Note: Most discussions involving 'legality' will also default to American laws, due to the internet being highly Americanized. This is very frustrating for many reasons, but mostly because I think people's anger about potential fictional minors being harmed would be better spent against the actual real life laws that allow child marriage in the USA. You know. The real people being hurt in the real world.)

When I write or read dark fiction, (I speak only for myself since that's the only perspective I can offer. I can't claim to know why other people write what they do or even why they read what I write. No one can.) I use it as a way to engage with these things safely. I enter, let's call it The Box (or the Cage lmao), where I can write or read about whatever I want for as long as I'm comfortable. I can do as much fucked up shit as I desire to characters. And the minute I am no longer comfortable, I can exit The Box, and leave all of that shit in there. There's no need to keep engaging with it beyond my comfort zone. There's no need to even enter The Box if I don't want to. It's important to me to have this space that is free to enter and leave when I choose, because many times in my life, I have not had the choice to leave a bad situation. It's empowering to have control over how far I go. And I do play with fucked up shit in there, I have since I started writing as a kid. (Erase the myth that children are pure innocence unable to conceptualize of dark things without being corrupted by outside influences. it does not help them. it did not help me. people of all ages explore dark themes. they deserve space to do so, especially space where they will not be taken advantage of by bad actors, which is what will happen if they are forbidden from doing so in other spaces, they will go to less regulated ones and be hurt.)

(Note: a lot of the time when justifying dark fiction, people will say that it should be allowed because of those who are using it to cope with trauma, through writing or reading it. I'm not saying this isn't true and important. I'd just also add that that sets a precedent I don't enjoy, gating off these topics to those harmed by them and requiring those people to present proof of their trauma in order to write about them. I just don't think I should have to justify to online strangers through trauma receipts when I want to use Sam Winchester as my own personal stress ball. Anyone should be allowed to write about dark stuff, and their reason can be, "felt like it.")

You said about defending these topics, "on the other hand I know this often makes you look or sound like an abuser/pedophile apologist, and in the worst case, makes you seem unsafe to certain individuals." And for that, I can only say that you can't control people's perceptions of you. Especially people who are not willing to do any deeper reflection on why they want to lash out on the internet at other people who are not hurting anyone rather than focusing their energy on people in power who are. (What's that old refrain, "What we do in fandom is not activism".) These terms are so watered down that they as easily can be wielded to say 'you are supporting real life harm' as they are to say 'you enjoyed reading Twilight.' You clearly know that you are not these things, you are not dangerous, the same way that I know writing wincest doesn't make me a danger to my very real siblings that I love.

So, all that to say, I don't think that drawing a line on what people are allowed to write and post will help anyone. (Or even work. People will continue to make this stuff and they will just post it untagged or in other places.) Making sure we have things properly marked so that dark themes can be avoided by people who want to is a better approach. Focusing energy that's being spent on nonsense online on providing support for people actually being harmed in the real world is a much better approach.

uh. hopefully that all made sense and helped a little? thank you for coming over, anon.

[themultifandomgal]

Sweet Pea- Jughead’s Tour

Toni and I walk over to the front door where we’re meant to be meeting FP’s son. I wrap Sweet Pea’s leather jacket closer around me as we see Jughead putting his hat on and Toni takes a photo of him

"Forsythe Pendleton Jones third. I’m Toni Topaz, this is YN Topaz, my twin sister”

“Well I never thought I’d see the day when FP’s son comes to Southside High”

"YN and I are suppose to give you the full animatronic tour of Southside High but some robots went insane and starting killing the guests so we'll just wing it"

“Let’s head towards the lunch hall” I smile turning around.

"So the classrooms don't have WiFi, bathroom stalls don't have doors" I says walking down the stairs

"What about the school paper. The red and black?"

"Yeah no longer exists" I sigh

"Censorship, budget cuts. Take your pick" Toni says

"To your right you'll find a glimpse of jingle jangle being consumed in its natural habitat" Toni points Jughead in the direction she's looking

"Jingle jangle?"

"The place is crawling with the JJ" she tells him

"A highly addictive total gutter drug. My advice, don’t try it or you will be addicted by the first taste" Toni and I continue to walk to the lunch hall

"Ok here is the cafetorium Ghoulies sit over there" Toni points over to where they sit "rival gang, drug dealers, street racers, rumours of cannibalism" she continues

"And we sit over here with the Serpents" I point over to to where everyone is sitting. Toni and I walk over

"Wait your a Southside Serpent" Jug asks Toni

"Why do you think we volunteered to give you the tour?" I say in a duh tone “come meet the others”

"Actually I'm gonna sit alone. Just, you know finish my book and brood" Toni and I look at each other then back at Jughead

"I'm confused aren't you like a Serpent by blood? the son of FP Jones?”

"Yeah well I self identify as a loner not a pack animal. Look I appreciate all this Toni, but I'm just gonna put my head down and try to get through this ok?" Jughead pats Toni on the arm

“If you wanna get through this you should sit with the Serpents" I fold my arms looking at him

"YN’s right if the Ghoulies get a whiff that your alone they'll make you their bitch faster than you can say American History X"

“I’ll take my chances” Jughead turns away and sits alone

“He’s screwed” I say to Toni then turn around to the others

“Hey babe” Pea pecks my lips

“Who’s the dude?” Fangs asks

“Jughead, FP’s kid” I reply

“He’s not sitting with us?” Fangs asks

“Nope. Identifies as a loner” I sit next to Pea

“The Ghoulies will eat him alive” Pea comments

“He’ll come around. You wait and see” Toni sits opposite us next to Fangs.

Later that day we all decide to skip school and head over to Sweetwater River . I text Toni to see where she is, in the old Red and Gold room. Sweet Pea opens the door and walks in

"Topaz number 2 lets bounce" he says with an arm around me "Jones. You wanna come with?"

"We’re going down to Sweetwater" I smile trying to seem nice and inviting

"No thanks. I don't have my beach bod yet"

"What? you’ll ask for help from the Serpents when you need it but won't hang with us"

"Babe" I sigh

"Don't come crawling to us hat in hand when some Ghoulie decides to earn his stripes by taking out FP Jones' kid"

"Duly noted. Thank you Sweet Pea. I appreciate what you and the Serpents have done for me and my dad. I do, but I'm done ok? No more favours coming your way"

Sweet Pea gets angry and starts to move towards Jughead. Toni comes in between them

"Hey hey he's made up his mind ok? Take the hint Sweet Pea, he's just not that into you. Let's motor" we all turn and leave Jughead alone in the room.

“Fancy a dip?” I ask Sweet Pea with a cheeky look as I take off my top

“Hell yeah” Pea leans down and captures my lips in his. I take off his shirt and then take off my jeans before running into the water, Pea following close behind

“Do you think Jughead’s going to be ok?” Toni asks

“Why do you care?” Pea says earning an eye roll from me

“Wether you like him or not. He’s FP’s son which means he automatically has Serpents protection. We have to look out for him, at the very least make sure the Ghoulies leave him be” I sigh looking at Pea

“Fine, but if he flirts with you I’ll hit him”

“He’s not going to flirt with me” I shake my head

“He wouldn’t have the guts” Fangs laughs

“He’s right YN. Took Pea a while to finally ask you out. He was so scared of you”

“Was not”

“No he was scared of rejection Toni, there’s a difference” Fangs points out

“Good job I took the lead then isn’t it” I smile at my boyfriend

“Shut up” Sweet Pea huffs making me laugh.

[annalacerda17]

Hey i love your takes on mdzs and i was wondering what you think about how cql and their characterisation of wwx and lwj? You don’t have to answer it, i know it can be pretty controversial but i would love your thoughts :)

I'm glad you like my takes!

I was actually thinking about making a post about cql eventually, so here it goes. This is going to be a bit long.

I think cql is definitely inferior to the novel, but I don't hate it. There's a lot I don't like about it, though, and I feel WWX and LWJ's characterizations suffered the most. That being said, I still think it's worth watching, if only for Xiao Zhan and Wang Yibo's performances (and their pretty faces).

On one hand, cql is a different medium, and there are things that can be easily expressed on page that can't be so easily expressed on the screen. So, of course, the story won't be exactly the same. CQL also had to deal with censorship, which forced them to change a lot of things. That being said, I personally don't agree with a lot of the creative choices they made for the story, especially in regards WWX and LWJ's characters.

The thing is that a lot of WWX's choices only make sense in a specific context, and when you change the context but not the choice, you end up losing something. They softened JC and JGY's characters, they made wangxian have a close relationship early, and made LWJ's reactions easier to interpret as concern and care. On the other hand, they didn't change WWX's reactions accordingly, so on one hand, WWX says he thinks of LWJ as his soulmate, and LWJ even confirms the sentiment is returned to WWX's face, and on the other, they keep making WWX misunderstand LWJ. This makes WWX seem oblivious and even a little dumb, which wasn't the case in the novel at all.

Then we have the entire yin iron thing, which I feel makes WWX less intelligent, and validates the cultivation world's negative views of WWX to some degree (and what was JC even doing there? He was completely irrelevant to the entire arc).

Here's the thing: in the novel, what WWX did with demonic cultivation was entirely new, any opinions on it coming from anyone other than WWX himself were based on pure conjectures, and even LWJ's worries are shown to be unfounded. But cql not only made WWX not be the creator of demonic cultivation, they also created a precedent of demonic cultivators who turned evil, and made WRH, the villain the SSC was trying to defeat, be one of them. With this, they are creating a parallel between WWX and WRH that was entirely absent from the novel, and it validates the suspicions against WWX, because now there is a good reason for them. This is a creative choice I vehemently disagree with.

Then they made WWX commit suicide, and that while ah yuan was still waiting for him in the burial mounds, which, while a pretty looking scene, was really bad for WWX's character. This scenes twists WWX's previous heroic actions that in the novel clearly came from a place of compassion and wanting to do the right thing seem like they came from a place of low self-worth. To me, this is a great disservice to his character, because in the novel, WWX is confident, has high self esteem and, most importantly, doesn't hold on to pain and misery. This touches on one of the main themes of the novel, which is choosing to let go of resentment in order to move on and be happy, and not letting the sufferings of the past define you in the present. WWX is such a great protagonist because he always chooses to make the best of his situation, even if the situation in question is pretty shitty. This is also something that sets him apart from the antagonists. Thematically, it makes sense that JC, JGY and XY are all characters who choose resentment, who refuse to move on from past hurts. It makes sense that the cultivation world refuses to move on after the SSC and would go so far as to seek revenge against the innocents. By making WWX commit suicide, they messed up the central themes of the story.

When it comes to LWJ, I think they took away much of his character. They made his entire character revolve around WWX, which, again, goes against the novel's themes and it ruined his character arc. LWJ, in the novel, mourned WWX but moved on with his life. He knew WWX was dead, he still loved him, but that didn't define his whole self. He recognized his shortcomings and worked to overcome them, and when WWX unexpectedly came back to life, he made sure not to repeat the mistakes of the past. But in CQL there's none of that, because LWJ was already making his feelings clear to WWX sinse long before WWX's death, so there's nothing to improve on.

I also dislike that they put more emphasis on JGY and LXC's relationship than the book did, because I felt it took away from LXC's relationship with LWJ, and also changed the dynamics of the venerated triad, which diminished the degree to which JGY was gaslighting and manipulating both LXC and NMJ, and using LXC against NMJ.

I abhor the romance they tried to create between WQ and JC. In fact, I really don't like the way JC's actor portrayed the character, and I have seen some other stuff the actor was in and he always plays the same character. He probably noticed his crying face is pretty and is making use of it.

But JC in the novel doesn't make crying faces every time he says or does something mean, he delights in making ppl around him miserable. He usually looks (and is) angry, not sad and crying. He isn't anywhere near as vulnerable as the actor's facial expressions would make him seem, and book JC would probably hate the way he portrayed in cql as well. And it doesn't change the fact that JC's actions and choices were wrong, the crying sad face is just there to try to make us pity him for his selfishness and lack of morality. Like, he's the one hurting others, but acts like he's the one who is being hurt, something I disagree with, especially because it leads to some pretty bad cases of victim blaming.

I don't like that they gave some wangxian moments to JYL, because I feel the change served no purpose at all, but to deepen his connection to Lotus Pier and the Jiangs, and doesn't do anything for any of the characters involved.

Like, in the novel, in the scene where JC had captured WWX and was threatening him with fairy, WWX called LWJ's name, he also said he didn't want to go back to Lotus Pier and JC mocked WWX by implying LWJ was only helping him because he didn't know his identity, something that hurts WWX. This sets up the reveal that LWJ had always known it was WWX. It's important to WWX's arc, because throughout the novel, WWX gradually cuts all past ties to the Jiangs and creates new bonds with LWJ. It plays very well with the themes of the novel.

In cql, WWX calls out JYL's name, proceeds to whisper he wants to go back to Lotus Pier, and there's no identity reveal because WWX knew LWJ knew his identity from the beginning. This scene, in cql, reinforces WWX's connections to the Jiangs, and it's not the only scene to do so (the whole thing with the Lotus Pond in the Burial Mounds comes to mind).

At the end of the book, WWX finally breaks the last ties between himself and JC and moves on with LWJ. It feels earned and it feels final.

In cql, when he leaves JC it doesn't feel like it's final, but it doesn't leave me with hopeful feelings like they probably intended, because no matter how pretty JC's crying face is, his actions are still just as bad, and WWX deserves to be free from him. The lack of finality in their parting made me feel frustrated.

That being said, I was surprised they managed to make wangxian's relationship so obviously romantic despite the limitations imposed by censorship.

Xiao Zhan and Wang Yibo really did the best they could, and I think they portrayed the characters really well. I especially like the scene in Jinlintai when WWX's identity is discovered and LWJ stands by his side. Both actors did an excellent job.

[inevitably-johnlocked]

can we adress how toxic some of these self/harm and suicide fics are?? as someone who has struggled with these issues, treating them as just a way for the two characters to get together, or one character to be the savior who cures someone of their problems? I'm so frickin over it. continuing to put your partner in limbo by threatening this behavior when they don't give you enough attention is a symptom of something major. This is not something i like seeing romanticized. at all.

[CONTENT WARNING FOR ENTIRE POST: heavy discussions of trauma, suicide, self harm, depression, political issue mentions, and eating disorders. Please proceed with care. I am not cutting the post because I think the message is important, so scroll past until my icon disappears <3 Stay safe, My Lovelies.]

Hey Nonny

Okay, I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt here because you mention you DO have struggles with these issues, so I’m going to state right up front here and say I AM NOT DISREGARDING YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AT ALL. Your view of this topic is valid, and it’s not something I am ever going to say is wrong for you. 

I would like to offer an olive branch, here, Nonny, and give you an alternative take on this, because I’m concerned that perhaps you are still coping with your own struggles and in return, you unwittingly and unintentionally are coming off as unsympathetic to other people’s coping mechanisms.

I KNOW how hard it is to see another view when yours is the only one that seems right, especially after a tragedy or after dealing with heavy things. But all I am asking is for you to temporarily extend some empathy as I discuss my thoughts in this post, and I apologize in advance if I come off as dickish, because, again, it’s hard to see past your own feelings, and I tend to give a “firm but understanding” approach to asks like this. It’s NOT meant to call you our personally. Just asking for an open mind.

I will tackle this ask in a similar fashion to this post here, which talks about shipping vs fetishization so CW for that, as well as like this post here, where we discuss pet peeves. My assumption here is that Nonny is unsure about what “romanticizing” actually entails, and how much this ask is basically Gatekeeping Fiction 101, a thing that’s been going on since the beginning of storytelling. The ask is perceived by me to be emotionally unaware of how unsympathetic it actually sounds, and in turn can unintentionally upset people who engage in these stories.

First thing’s first, Nonny, and I said it before, I GET IT. I understand what you’re going for here, why you feel it’s toxic, and why you think it shouldn’t exist. Here’s the thing, though: what you’re ACTUALLY calling for here is censorship and gatekeeping because YOU PERSONALLY take issue with something, want the fandom specially curated just for you, because it PERSONALLY OFFENDS YOU. And that, it itself, is what’s really toxic, here. Just because YOU are offended, does not mean that it’s not helpful to SOMEONE ELSE, and it’s selfish to make such a demand of people.

Let me explain.

As I mention in the link above re: shipping, many people read and write fics to cope with the reality of their own experiences. Nonny, your experience is NOT the same as someone else’s. Your pain is NOT universal, and you DON’T KNOW what that author has been through; for all you know, they spent 6 months in-hospital after attempting suicide, and they are now simply processing their trauma through storytelling. 

Or, “continuing to put your partner in limbo by threatening this behavior when they don't give you enough attention” ? It’s a VERY REAL THING that ACTUALLY happens in real life, and perhaps it happened to that author, or they want to write an alternate ending to their pain.

Or, “one character to be the saviour who cures someone of their problems?” is something a suicide survivor WISHES someone did for them. Because they feel alone in the world and don’t want to be alone anymore.

These stories are simply escapism for people, either to learn about or share what these mental illnesses do to people, or are the “fantasies” of survivors, of their ideal outcome to their own tragedies. Coping with guilt over the loss of someone they feel they could have saved. The brutal truth about realty.

And sometimes, it is because some people need a good cry and a feel-good happy ending, because real life? Well, it rarely has those happy endings and so few opportunities to let us cry, and sometimes life is just easier when we view it through the eyes of fictional characters. Do you not want someone to save you sometimes Nonny? And I mean metaphorically here, too. Someone to just take all of your hellish burdens off those shoulders for one day. Someone who will come in to save you from yourself. I know I do.

And, well, sometimes, Nonny, it makes people feel less alone in this socially distanced world.

They’re not glorifying that issue Nonny. They’re telling their story.

Here are some thoughts:

Romanticization: Some trendy teen outlet selling a shirt with “mentally diseased” written across it.

NOT Romanticization: A character in a story coming to terms with a diagnosis of mental illness and learning ways to adapt. Their partner is involved 100% and they learn together.

Romanticization: Sherlock merchandise being sold with “I’m a high functioning sociopath” (not mention ableist as all heck)

NOT Romanticization: A character self-harms because of depression, and character B helps the character through their pain and together they get proper therapy and treatment.

Romanticization: Calling yourself “OMG I’m so bipolar!” because it’s trendy.

NOT Romanticization: A clinically depressed author, who survived a suicide attempt, wanting to tell their story through characters the world is already familiar with, and one that a touchy subject can be expressed and understood by other people, because they’re not ready to write the “real” book. Fandom is a safety net for them.

See what I mean Nonny? We don’t KNOW what kind of pain these authors have PERSONALLY been through, and to censor them from having their voices heard and their stories told is just not on for me.

And let me be clear: YES OF COURSE romanticization happens EVERYWHERE. I am not denying that. But your ask is coming off like EVERY STORY EVER WRITTEN is glorification of something. By your logic:

Disabled people shouldn’t write about their disabilities because they’re romanticising themselves.

The authors with medical degrees shouldn’t write realistic med-fics because some where in the world, ONE person MAY HAVE had a similar experience as Character A and B.

Someone broke their foot in ballet so they shouldn’t write a story about a ballet dancer who broke their hip because it may offend ONE ballerina SOMEWHERE in space and time who got sideline at the prime of their career? 

Stories about LGBT+ people shouldn’t be written because homophobes think it’s icky.

We shouldn’t write about wizards because it offends high school catholic pastors (an actual thing that happened)? 

How about cancer stories because kids die of cancer all the time? 

Non-fiction autobiographies about holocaust survivors is not okay.

Science books offend flat earthers, so we shouldn’t write those.

Books about the Big Bang and a 4.5 billion-year-old earth offends creationists, so burn those.

A now-adult child rape victim writing their survival stories to help get their often-in-power abusers behind bars are taboo.

True crime stories from detectives on those cases shouldn’t be told because they weren’t the victim.

Non-fiction in general because someone somewhere may have had that one singular thing happen to them.

How about coping with grief over a parent’s sudden death because I personally might find offense in that since that was a horridly traumatic experience in my life?

Do you see how progressively out of touch this argument is? (the answer to all of these: authors should be allowed to write them, because stories make us human). Your argument leads down the very dangerous path to censorship of books, the internet, and history... to have people only read and learn what someone else dictates, leading to... well.

I’m not trying to be a dick here, Nonny, I’m really not. But I think you’re really missing the entire point of fiction and story telling. I feel you’re failing in the empathy game here, and failing to understand what romanticizing really actually is. 

Whenever I get asks like this, I always feel like the Nonnies don’t really know much about pre-Ao3. I come from “early internet” fandom age, and I’m talking before tags existed. Back when I had to go buy a book at Coles and guess what was in it based on a cover description. No “amazon reviews”. No “harmful content warning” stickers. You just picked up that book, and sometimes you get a sweet story about a friends exploring an alien landscape, and other times WHOOOPS ACCIDENTAL ALIEN SEX I DIDN’T SIGN UP FOR. And sometimes, it ended with a dark story about death, and the reality of coping with it.

Twenty years ago, books on the shelves at bookstores and libraries were the only place you could do your reading and they certainly do NOT have tags on them... Modern tagging of stories are a REALLY recent thing introduced probably no less than 15 years ago and was perfected by Ao3 (which was started in 2009). 

These days, there is no excuse if you only consume fanfiction on Ao3. Fics are tagged with proper possible-trigger tags 90% of the time. They have a VERY METICULOUS filtering system. You aren’t being forced to read the fics, you don’t have to read the fics, so use those tag filters, they exist for a reason.

So, with that in mind, I genuinely DON’T GET this attitude about people wanting everything sugar coated and saccharine by default. Especially when you can LITERALLY CURATE YOUR OWN CONTENT. Life isn’t sugar coated. And fiction shouldn’t have to be either. People tag fics with triggers for a reason.

As they used to say back in my early internet days: Don’t like it? Don’t read it. Don’t comment, skip, next story.

And to put this ALL into perspective, so that you don’t think I’m talking out of my ass, I’m going to reveal something here: Do you know what fics I can’t read, Nonny, because they trigger me? Eating disorders. That’s self harm, Nonny, in a very different way. But you know what? I know that those fics DO help other ED people so I’m not going to sit her and tell people NOT to rec or write them. And some of those authors who write those stories are processing their own ED through those stories, healing in their own way. And you know what I do when I see one of those fics? I don’t read them, move on, next story.

I’m sorry if you perceive this as me being harsh with you here, Nonny, and you DON’T have to agree with me and you can block me and never talk to me again, and I’ll understand. As I stated at the beginning, I’m offering an alternative perspective, and helping you to see that some people take comfort in these types of stories.

I think what this all boils down to Nonny, after all of this, and rereading your question a final time to see if I missed covering anything, is that (and feel free to shit on me if I am wrong here) I’m getting the impression – as an unprofessional outsider looking in – that you’re still struggling with your inner demons, whether you realize it or not. The tone and brashness of your ask has me believing this... It feels like it was written after a trigger-moment and you needed to vent AT someone because you are alone, and that hurts my heart so much. I truly hope you find peace in your mind, soon, and I hope you have someone to talk to professionally, or at least a friend. (tw under link, suicidal ideation discussion and links to phone numbers that can help you). I only wish the best for you, my Nonny.

Anyway. I welcome other people to chime in here, respectfully, and let me know if I have the wrong take here. Because I genuinely don’t think I do, but I am not a professional, so my entire thing that took me 3 hours to write here is probably moot. I’m especially interested (on anon in my asks if you’re not comfy with revealing yourselves) on thoughts from other people who have survived the original topics here, as well as any therapists and authors as well.

Take care of yourself Nonny. And please curate your own content for your mental health. Ao3 has an “exclusionary tag system” as well, please use it. *hugs*

[lavenderek]

So you're saying you don't think "underage" fic is gross. Is that what youre saying?

well, no. yuck. what i’m saying is, what exactly and specifically do we want to happen?

there should not be explicit fic about underage characters, got it. so what age can they not be under? 18? 16? what country’s laws regarding the age of consent do we prioritize? like, i think it’s gross that the age of consent is 16 in some places, but i’m an american, so i would, wouldn’t i? so ok, what if we hedged it a bit and put the age as like, 14? that way it’s not little kids, it’s all teenagers. but no, gross, 14-year-olds are children. fun fact: so are 16-year-olds. they are also children.

what about fic about two teenagers having a consensual encounter? should all romantic or sexual fic have to be about adults only? your answer to this may very well be “yes,” and that’s completely valid. a teenager writing fic might disagree. somebody who’s a big fan of a show that’s about a bunch of teenagers might disagree. should there be an adults-only section on the site? there’s already a “stop, you have to be 18″ box to check before you can access explicit fic, so how do we verify a user’s age? they can just lie about their age and click through anyway. you have to be 18 to make a youtube account and i’ve had one since i was 13. i remember very deliberately choosing a new birth year when it asked for my birthdate.

then you get to slightly greyer areas like large age gaps, or heavy role play between consenting adults. i have absolutely witnessed fic that’s clearly written to be CP, but it’s tagged as age play. so like, for all intents and purposes this is CP, but if you roll in like “hey, this is fucked up,” they can be like, “oh, so you read this picturing actual children, sicko?? you have a problem with two adults doing shit in the bedroom??? how dare you!!! don’t like don’t read!!!”

it’s kind of like on porn sites, how they make like nasty inc*st stuff but call it “stepmom” or whatever, like oh, they’re not actually related! sure, joseph, thanks for covering all your bases

so we can’t ban kinks. or can we? should we limit depictions of serious addictions or domestic abuse too? torture, or even body horror? these are generally accepted to be dark content.

i’m not trying to engage in whataboutism, i’m naming actual, relevant questions about shit that’s disturbing in real life (no offense to kink people who follow codes of consent and conduct) and can be incredibly upsetting to encounter online. shit that i can’t imagine wanting to read, let alone write.

these are the questions that we, you, i, people pro-a*3 and people anti-a*3, are all asking, and not a single one of us can or should answer them unilaterally.

so it’s like, oh, okay, so there should be no oversight at all? should there be no rules? no, obviously, that would be horrible, i don’t trust any of these fuckers to conduct themselves civilly. so there should be some rules, but not too many rules. that’s what we have now, and clearly the way things are now isn’t working because a lot of users are reasonably very upset.

should there be a voting system, and rules are set by a popular vote? should certain words be flagged and you can’t post the fic with that word in it? should there be a thing where when you post a fic, you have to select the ages of each character and that’s listed at the top of the fic? what if they age during the fic? should there be a flagging function, where you report someone for not using sufficient tags? users will find workarounds for all of this. you know they will. so mods will have to be very specific about the rules and introduce, like, a vetting system for it. which is a lot more manpower and a lot more chances for subjective judgments.

all of the above is why it operates on a tagging system instead. i’m gonna be real, i only go on a*3 to read comments on my own shit lmao, and even when i did go on there more often i never went in the tags searching for fic. so is there a blacklist function? is there a flagging function?

if there is a flagging function, maybe they make it so that if the flagged user has violated the rules, their account is suspended and their fic made private for the duration and until they add necessary tags.

cool, a compromise. but uh-oh, it turns out Mod A agrees that this fic is n*ncon, but Mod B thinks it’s just vague, not n*nconsensual, and doesn’t feel comfortable banning the fic. or it turns out User didn’t post anything flaggable, they were reported by somebody who is targeting them for some reason, or by someone who is more stringent about n*ncon than somebody else would be, like, it’s gotta be enthusiastic and verbal consent or else it’s skirting the edges too much.

it’s like, we’ve already witnessed censorship (please take this word usage gently, i know it’s touchy but it’s the word to use here) being a problem here on tumblr with their stupid nipple ban. there’s a double standard regarding whose nipples are explicit and whose are kosher for public consumption. people have to appeal their shit getting flagged and sometimes nothing gets fixed regardless. i’m sure other people are pleased that there’s less of a chance of them accidentally scrolling past a picture of a hard dick at work.

so you get it, this is a problem that’s more complicated than “all of x should be banned and if you post it there’s something wrong with you,” a belief you’re more than entitled to hold but can’t base, like, fanfic legislation off of. you get it you get it.

you get it, but like, what is the fucking deal with those “fandom moms” who go off on soliloquies about the days of old or whatever the fuck whenever this topic comes up? what about the weirdos who are like, “what’s next, banning gay fic????” yeah, if we allow gay marriage you can marry a tree, that’s how it works, thanks tiffany.

but no, the reason they do this is NOT that they think lgbtq content is comparable in any way to CP. the reason they do this is that this exact problem has taken place on every site that has ever hosted fic. and many previous sites did think lgbtq content was comparable to CP. it was categorized as adult content and hidden.

that’s why a*3 exists in the first place. it was to avoid godmodding and absolutism. it’s supposed to be more or less self-governed. i don’t want there to be CP on a*3 any more than you do, but i also don’t trust randos to decide what is and isn’t acceptable content. this topic is not new.

i’m in support of stronger government regulation in real life because it can be argued that certain actions and systems violate human rights. everybody deserves food and shelter, for example. the same can’t be argued in this case because some creep writing CP doesn’t violate my rights. i find it offensive and i don’t think they should be writing it, but my right to click the back button is intact. there is no institution making it impossible or even difficult for me to not read fanfiction. the creep could just as reasonably argue that their right to post what they want is being affected.

why is this response so long? is it because i can’t shut up? yes, but also because this is a complex issue and that’s why nobody has taken significant action on it.

people are also big mad.

i’ve never understood this impulse to see somebody not doing a thing you want them to do and assume it’s out of malice or incompetence, anyway. i don’t know anybody who volunteers for a*3 but it’s my assumption that given the choice to have us all pissed at them, or have us all not pissed at them, they would choose to have us not be pissed at them. it just seems like the reasonable reaction to have. and like, i’d be pretty shocked to part the kimono and find out they’re all CP-loving gargoyles and a*3 actually stands for A lot Of child abus3. that is the reason i have not been like, “fuck a*3.” because what are they supposed to do, you know?

there’s no simple or inarguably morally right solution here. the princess is in another castle. just post fic on tumblr, i guess? make another hosting site that’s exactly like a*3 but romantic characters can only be like, 21?

i actually think the legal age in the US should be raised to 21, not joking. your brain literally and biologically isn’t finished developing at 18. teenagers lack the world experience to make decisions that adults make.

somewhere there is an 18-year-old or a person who moved out and became self sufficient at 18 who hates this sentiment. there’s a teenager in an abusive home who would be intensely demoralized by the prospect of having to remain beholden to these people for three more years.

and there’s a parent who is relieved to know that their kid can’t be preyed on by army recruiters for three more years. there’s a person who got into a car crash with a teenager who misjudged whether or not they could make a turn who’s like, yeah, she could probably have benefited from a few more years.

nothing is as simple as it should be. i agree with you, but i’m not willing to pass blanket judgments with regards to actions that should be taken. and honestly, given how little i actually go on the site, i don’t even have a dog in this fight. so all my opinions on it are moot anyway.

(side note, if you are in an abusive home and you can’t make your own bank account, or if your bank account is monitored by your abusive parents, maybe try venmo? you can get a debit card that pulls directly from your venmo balance. a surprising number of places accept venmo payments, and this way you can save up money in secret.)

anyway uhhhhh seeya

[angrykpoprants]

I don't think I'm gonna support the next comeback in August. It's mainly due to armys being terrible the accusing winner's mino of pedophilia, Hatred towards got7 and rampant racism towards black fans and the recent racism the k army directed to black fans over fan cafe photos and bts continues to be silent on it has rubbed me wrong way and I don't feel right supporting the next comeback as a black fan myself

I don’t really think its wrong to not fully support the comeback, you still have every right to call yourself a fan/army. Truth be told I haven’t fully supported their comebacks since B,S,& T. I still buy their albums and watch the music video once but that’s about it, if you don’t want to watch the music video or buy the album also, that doesn’t mean your less of a fan either. I kind of stay away from watching the live performances and all that stuff because there’s just so much negativity that their fans put out their. 


For the people that don’t know whats going on about Mino I’ll explain it below since it can be a sensitive topic and I don’t want to trigger people. But for the TL:DR he is not a pedophile. 


The armys never fail to surprise me. Don’t you remember during their second Mama performance when they collaborated with got7, armys went around supporting got7 just because they performed with bts and they said that they were friends with them… They even supported Jackson because Jackson said that he’s friends with Rap Mon, yet now that got7 is stealing the spotlight from bts they all of a sudden hate got7. I feel like armys wake up angry and wanting to fight people everyday. Got7 has been around for a while, people supported them even when they were featured in an episode of who is next. Got7 is very talented and they work hard so they deserve to get attention. I’m sorry armys but there are a plethora of very talented kpop groups, bts is not the only one of its kind… heck, bts isn’t even “original” there literally Bigbang mixed with B.A.P B.A.P has been around a about 19 months before bts and bigbang has been around 7 years before bts. 


I know you said that they fan cafe thing is synonymous with racism and I full on believe you but I’m going to address them as separate because both of them are a major issue in and of itself.

As far as the racism thing… there are a lot of accounts of armys of all kinds of races being racist towards other fans… I’ve even experienced blatant racism from their fans at both TRB and wings. At wings my friend who is full Asian and I were waiting patiently in line, we were keeping to ourselves and we were one of the last people to arrive. In the line that we were in the people in front of us kept looking back and they said that “I thought they just came to America for their white fans“ and I was thinking “did I really just hear that?” who knows what else they said when they got in the venue… It’s just sad that those two girls have that much hatred inside of them, at TRB I attended with my mom as I was only 15, and my friend was 13, both her and my mom are full white. People assumed that my friend was my moms daughter which is understandable, I’m not mad at that, I don’t really look like my mom either. As soon as the heard me refer to her as Mom and my friend refer to her as Miss.P for anonymity… its not that me or my mom have a problem with remaining anonymous but its more like I don’t know who follows me and for what reason… mainly it because I don’t want any retaliation from bts fans maybe someday I’ll be less anonymous, they started treating both me and my mom super rude and weird. Even during TRB, my mom had went upstairs to go to the bar, there was another mom there but she was talking about how awesome Asia is and how her two children younger than me are going to go to Korea and blah blah blah, it was basically this fantasy-land view of Asia and Asians. My mom then told the lady that being married to an Asian isn’t all lollipop and rainbows and living in Hawaii my mom dated a few other Asian men before she married my Father. After that her behavior towards my mom changed, as if she was disgusted over who my mom chose to marry, yet she created that same-like fantasy in her head for her daughters. I had also gone up there to get some water and to get out of the crowd I have asthma and I forgot my inhaler, hot/lukewarm water helps sometimes and the look on her face she she saw me looked was a real look of disgust, she was extremely rude to me too. 
If that’s the type of prejudice that I face, being a hapa… I cant imagine what you go through.

Now with the fancafe issue, ever since they opened up the fancafe, the photo have been share left and right. Am I saying its okay? No, it’s against the rules. They have said that they were going to shut down the fancafe or ban people if content gets shared but it seems to just be empty threats from bighit. What’s not cool is that they put the blame on black fans. Fans of all races have been sharing fancafe photos. If they truly want the sharing of the photos to stop then they should report it to bighit… but at this point are they even going to do anything? Its just like how they say that legal action will take place of the content from their dvd’s gets shared but does anyone actually get sued?

Yes, your right, bts and/or bighit should step in at this moment because there is way too much toxicity in that fandom. It’s not hard to tell the fans “hey dont be mean”. “dont be racist”, or even “be nice to other fandoms”. B.A.P has said all of that to their fans, just take a look at BYG’s speech in Atlanta. Bigbang has even said something along the lines of “its okay for you to like other groups, we dont really care” which i believe somewhat help die down the fanwars in the VIP fandom. Although, I dont think that’s what bighit cares about anymore. Yes, bts should be able to come out and say it themselves but like i have said previously, we dont really know what their contract entails, we dont even know if they are aloud to say anything that could potentially jeopardize the money coming into to bighit, and that’s all bighit cares about now, I dont even think bts has freedom of speech at this point, they seem to manufactured as of now. Although, bts has been subtlety dissing their fans lately and I think that this fandom needs it at this point.

Below will be the controversy with Mino.

Now about the Mino pedophile issue, no… Mino is not a pedophile and he didn’t commit pedophilia. Mino was following an instagram account that was ran by a photographer called prettypuke. I’ve know about this account for a while because he had been following since 2015, although some fans say that he was hacked. Now that photographer was also the co-director for CL music video Dr. Pepper which was released in 2015. I also believe that he had worked with other YG artist before and other people from YG were also following him.

What happened is that there was this article in published saying that Mino was a pervert… not a pedophile which, in some cases can go hand and hand but not all perverts not pedophiles. The reason why that made headlines in Korea is becuase of their online censorship and pornography ban which its more like anything that can be sexual is banned, Then this Army got a hold of the article and “translated” it but she flat out called him a pedophile. The reason for that is there was this picture that was uploaded and it was a boy with a buttplug on is forehead, what seemed to be him pretending to be a unicorn. However, just because there was a sex toy in that picture that did not make the picture sexual. There are a ton of videos and pictures where children find their parents toys. It got so bad to the point where Mino unfollowed everyone on his Instagram and the photographer had to make a statement. He said “Here is context to the image causing so much controversy in Korea. I fucking hate that it has come to this. This is my son Casper two years ago. Children are extremely inquisitive. My job as a dad is to be present, educate him, and protect him” along with that he said “My son happen to find his mother’s toy and began to play with with it. To him it’s just a found object, disgusting adults are the ones bringing negative connotation to such a simple image that shows no sexual intent“ 

The army then tweeted out a half-assed apology, she really didn’t apologize to Mino per se but more apologizing out of embarrassment because there even were a group of armys attacking her. Its just so sickening that she thought that that was okay to say because forever his image will be messed up due to people deeming him a pedophile and it seems like people just started to forget about the whole SMTM controversy. There are no accusations that they can use to even make him seem like a pedophile. This could potentially mess up his solo debut. No matter what, when a man gets accused of being a pedophile, rapist, molester, etc… and hes proven innocent that label will forever be on him for the rest of his life, not necessarily though the legal system but through out the street.  Part of me is also think that she did that to try to tarnish winners name because after Everyday their fame has been increasing like crazy.