#Undertale analysis

[the-irreverend]

Man, this line REALLY hits differently after reading the latest newsletter, doesn't it?

Many people have debated the meaning of this line and how Asriel felt about Chara when he said it, and now, after reading his letter, we finally have a better understanding of what his feelings.

If you remember, Asriel said that Chara loved the number 9 because if they reach it, "nothing can hurt you" and "nothing can hurt anyone." This is important because it shows that Asriel understands (now more than ever) that Chara's failures as a sibling were tied to the trauma they suffered on the surface and that their desire to become invincible wasn't just because they were self-serving, psychopathic or just plain evil.

At the same time, he understands that just because Chara wanted to achieve power so that "nothing can hurt anyone," it doesn't excuse them for the hurt that they ended up causing Asriel, even if they didn't mean to hurt him.

So, while Asriel rightfully says that Chara is not an "ideal friend", THAT DOESN'T MEAN HE THINKS THEY DIDN'T HAVE GOOD IN THEM, and the newsletter helps prove that!

So, in the end, Chara is just like every other character in Undertale: far from good, but also not a terrible person either.

[inbarfink]

One common Undertale misconception that really frustrates me is when Sans is portrayed with a strong innate sense for RESETs and alternative timelines. Like, that he remembers the RESET timelines better than the other characters who only have occasional feelings of deja vu or even that he can sense when a timeline is RESET.

And that’s, like, almost the opposite of the actual text of the game. While pretty much every main character can have slightly-different dialogue in a Not-True-RESET, especially if the Player had previously befriended them, based on the idea that they have lingering memories/feelings from before the RESET - 

Sans has no real dialogue changes based on this conceit. All of his changes are based around noticing Frisk has different reactions based on their memories of the precious timelines. 

Other characters do also make observations like that about Frisk, like Mettaton and Toriel. But Sans is distinctive because this is the only way his comments change between RESETs and there are a lot of them from him.

Because that is what really frustrates me about this misconception. People mention it as one more thing that makes Sans cool - but the actual truth is far more badass. Sans is one of the people in the Underground who remembers RESETs the least. I think memory-resistance to RESETs is probably tied to Determination. Flowey, the second-most Determined person in the Underground after Frisk, can remember everything perfectly.

Everyone else has some vague feelings and deja vus. And Sans, he’s the least motivated person in the Underground - both in the sense he’s lazy and in the sense he’s fucking depressed.

That probably means he has very little Determination. Thus, he doesn’t remember anything that happens between RESETs.

And yet, he is still the character most aware of them. Because he has the technological know-how to read and analyze timelines.

And because he has the observation and analytical skill to notice a RESET from other people’s reactions and behavior. Whatever it’s Papyrus thinking he recognizes someone or Frisk’s behavior implying that they know something they shouldn’t have. Sans main RESET-related skill is just being able to identify these moments and come to the correct conclusion about them. And with that he manages to be the most aware character in the entire Underground.

Like, the one point where it might seem like Sans remembers something from a previous Timeline is the Fake Spare scene during his boss battle. 

But it’s all pretend. Unlike the previous lines from other characters that I mentioned, this dialogue plays even if the Murder Route is the first time the player touched the game. Sans isn’t remembering anything in this scene. But he makes an educated guess that the Immoral Time God probably tried using their powers for good at first, so they were likely ‘friends’ in a previous timeline. And in most cases, his guess is right on the money - tricking many players into thinking this is another case of the game actually reacting to their past actions.

And as always, Sans can only tell if his lil’ trick worked or not based on the expression of the Player Character.

Arguably, Sans even uses his lack of Determination and cross-RESET memory to his advantage in his boss battle. After all, the whole point of this fight isn’t to kill the Player - Sans understands this is impossible. This is a war of attrition, trying to get the Player so frustrated and annoyed with the unfair fight that they just ragequit or RESET the Timeline. And this war of the Player’s patience versus Sans’ stamina and will is infinitely easier for him when he doesn’t actually perceive all the Player’s previous attempts against him.

Like, for the Player this might be the billion time they go up against him, they’re aware of some of his patterns and tricks now but they’re probably also frustrated and angry and exhausted. Meanwhile, from Sans’ POV, this is still the first time this is happening. He knows it’s not from the Player’s behavior and Frisk’s expression - but he doesn’t feel it like the Player does. 

He doesn’t feel the frustration and repetition of the endless stalemate. So he’s always as fresh as a daisy no matter how rugged the Player is getting.

And that’s part of why Sans is so cool in the first place, like, in general. He’s technically the weakest person in the Underground, lacking in every standard evaluation of power in the setting - no ATK, no DEF, no HP, no DETERMINATION. But he’s darn clever enough to overcome these weaknesses and even use them in ways that make them into strengths, enough to be one of the most dangerous and most aware guys in this whole setting.

Sans can’t remember anything, and that makes him awesome.

[justali-anne]

I love it when Sans doesn't know everything. Like, he has most of the pieces, but he can't actually complete the puzzle, if that makes sense?

I remember works where Sans knows everything about resets and stuff like that. And while that's fun and angsty (and oddly nostalgic to think about), I find it more interesting when Sans doesn't know some things. He's clever, but he does come to the wrong conclusions sometimes. And that's okay! It doesn't make Sans any less smart! He's just working with the bits and pieces he DOES have. And I think that's really interesting and cool!

A prime example of this is this scene:

Here, he erroneously comes to the conclusion that someone is using an echo flower to trick Papyrus. But I think the only reason he comes to this conclusion is because he doesn't know Flowey's about.

Considering Flowey made a point to stay away from Sans, it's likely that he doesn't know about Flowey at all. After all, he doesn't remember resets. Once again, he uses the resources he has to come to a conclusion. Sometimes it's wrong, a lot of the time, it's scarily accurate.

And I like that about him. Sans is just missing a few puzzle pieces. If he somehow manages to obtain those puzzle pieces, however, I'm confident that he will actually reach the right conclusion. Like it'll all just click, and he'd be like, "ohhhh. that makes sense."

Let Sans have gaps in his knowledge. He's more, dare I say, "human" that way.

[megaderping]

After nearly a decade, it's easy to forget what's canon and fanmade, and Sans' character has been interpreted in so many different ways that sometimes the line between Toby's writing and popular fan consensus gets blurry. In this video, I aim to analyze Sans as depicted in Undertale, Deltarune, and various official media written by Toby himself, like the anniversary Q&A, the alarm clock dialogue, the casino, and newsletter materials to provide a useful reference and fun look back at why Sans is such a cool character despite all the intense hype.

[radiant-vulpine]

Decided to make a little analysis on Chara's design, due to the common consensus on their appearance.

[o-sunny-day]

Oh right. The other one.

CW: Undertale rant/analysis

Ive played Undertale- hundreds of times. and lately ive reflected on how the game is supposed to make you feel IN THE MOMENT- since ive kinda forgotten a lot of that. Because of the aforementioned ✨“hundreds of times”✨

Everything ofc still feels just as captivating, but nothings surprising because im not playing it from the perspective of someone who has absolutely no idea whats going to happen next. Sometimes I overlook and forget how the little details are supposed to make you feel/think about the characters. Like how Undyne is implied to be an abusive boss. After you get to know her, then replay, you hear how Papyrus talks about her at first, and see their interaction as you enter Waterfall, and you completely understand!

But BEFORE- youre like “oooohhh she’s threatening him-“

On this topic, I rewatched some playthroughs, and saw their first reactions to geno papyrus death, and I realized. that this room placement. IS SO COOL!!!!

Normally its like- yep! I just befriended/beat papyrus, time to continue on my way- oo hi sans! sure, ill go to Grillbys with you! Even on replays, you’re not really excepting him in any room hes in, im just like “oh yep, theres the man.”

But when you kill Papyrus for the first time, usually on a geno route. That same thing kicks in. You’re not predicting him to be there cause youre focused on the room youre in currently, but when you GET THERE youre like “oh yeah and thats where Sans is” but he’s NOT THERE and you stop for a millisecond and go “oh, no yeah, that makes sense.”

…the silence doesn’t help either.

Its worse that he’s all over the underground too, not just in the start of Waterfall. Even not seeing him in front of the mtt resort is just a slap in the face 😭

If youve gotten to the phase of killing people on purpose to see what will happen, youve also gotten to the phase of KNOWING theres gonna be consequences, so Sans not being there shoudnt hit as hard as it does BUT IT DOES (at least for me)

The typical reactions to Monster death in general that you cant avoid are Undyne and Sans’ speeches, and neutral run phonecalls. DIALOGUE. things that appear because of what you did. But with Sans its not what he does or says (up until the judgment hall) its what he doesn’t do.

He doesn’t bother to show up, to say anything to you because what is there to say??? Ignoring how personal it is for a sec- Sans knows this isnt your first time playing, but doesn’t comment on it (much). Right now he still believes the anomaly just wants to be happy, so gives the benefit of the doubt.

That is until you kill the dude that is impossible to kill on accident, or argue in self defense.

Now Sans knows the anomaly just wants to know what will happen. Doesn’t care if its bad or not, they’re just curious, so theres no point.

STILL he wants them to reset and do something ELSE so he halfway pleads with them in the judgment hall to rethink what they’ve done. The fact that he asks an answerable question feels important to me, like hes searching for something, ANY reason. But maybe hes trying to make you see that- there was no reason. Youre DUMB and you should RESET because- WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THIS????

What I also find really powerful even on replays, is the silence after he drops lines like this. Especially the judgment hall question. Sometimes I do sit there and soak in the silence like- “jesus. Yeah, why DID i do that?”

My main point of this entire thing is, I LOVE this game, I LOVE Papyrus and his impact on the game even when he isnt there, and I wish I could play it for the first time again, and fall in love with it all over again, but alas, hitting myself with a rock to screw up my memory only works 17% of the time,

so im happy enough sticking with changing my perspective, and taking a moment to remember what it felt like to accidentally kill toriel and realize your actions have consequences, to beat Undyne the Undying, to hug Asriel, to hear that Undertale was getting a “sequel”, and to hear that dreaded line, “Then why did you kill my brother.” all for the first time again.

[starisenby]

Gerson is a boss monster and here's why

As we know boss monsters age when their offspring does and if said offspring is dead they are stuck at the age they were when their offspring died

And we know Gerson is dead in Deltarune

And the surrounding graves are of characters who we know were dead in Undertale as well (which is interesting that more of the amalgamates aren't there which is either due to lack of space or it means they are alive in the Deltarune universe)

(Images from a post by @seased )

And we know that the amalgamates are dead

When monsters die they dust.

And we know Father Alvin is Gersons son

So why is Gerson dead in Deltarune where he has a son but not in Undertale where he doesn't? Because he's a boss monster that's why

[stainedglassthreads]

One thing I think I just realized is, in addition to being dissatisfied with how stories deal with Toriel’s grief compared to Asgore’s and Asriel’s, and how I don’t see many instances of Toriel and Asgore’s quarrel being addressed in a way that satisfied me... I don’t think I see that many AUs that quite get the responsibility Asgore feels... right.

Yes, I’ve seen several that portray his grief, depression, and how badly he doesn’t want to be in this position well, even if it’s disappointing how not everyone seems to be aware of what you learn about him in a Neutral run where you’ve previously killed Flowey. A lot of people can get aspects of his characterization very well, the broken man, the goofy dad, the intimidating monarch. But I think the reason I don’t see people capture the weight of his responsibility quite as well in fanfics and comics is... well. Oddly enough it’s in the way the monsters treat him.

It’s not just the fandom that has issues with idolizing or demonizing characters. It’s also the Kingdom of Monsters themselves--and they all idolize Asgore. Yes, he’s a very grounded and compassionate individual who invites his subjects to share all their problems with him, and who Papyrus insists will just let you pass through the Barrier. But he’s also a bit of the subject of a cult of personality for his subjects. When they say he’ll absorb seven souls and become a GOD, it’s not an expression of his arrogance, but rather their own adoration. While out-of-universe the Angel is generally agreed to be either Asriel or Chara(or us), in-universe I wouldn’t be surprised if Asgore was considered the Angel.

It’s not long now. King Asgore will let us go. King Asgore will give us hope. King Asgore will save us all.

Yes, individual monsters may want to collect a human soul for their own individual wants and desires. But it’s only the capture of a human soul, or using a single soul for their own benefit, that they really aspire to. (With the exception of Toriel, who wants no souls, and Flowey, who is Flowey.) Of those area bosses who earnestly try to take just one soul, Papyrus and Undyne both want to hand you over to Asgore, and Mettaton wants to protect humanity FROM Asgore. Literally everyone in the Underground seems to fully believe that Asgore will be the one taking all the Souls and fulfilling his promises, and all are content. (Again, barring Toriel, MTT, Flowey.) No one seems to ever doubt he’ll do as he says, even his ex-wife, and no one’s greedy to take the power for themselves or take the burden of being a savior for themself, except his kid who has both a God Complex and a Savior Complex.

With Chara, and with Asgore. They take a person and turn them into a representation of something More than any singular person could ever be. And then in the worst route Chara does it again, to themself. Asgore is freedom and salvation and retribution itself, and everyone including the woman who was once married to him agrees and reinforces the role. Chara is the feeling of a number going up, and the fandom agrees and reinforces the role.

And I dunno. There are fics and AUs where Asgore never lost his kids and always remained an affable, friendly guy. There are AUs where Asgore is the main antagonist and an awful villain with few redeeming qualities. There are fics and AUs where Asgore gets to recover in a post-pacifist setting. But I’m not sure any fics or AUs have ever quite captured how everyone else just talks about the guy, for me. Toriel is simply ‘intimidating’. But Asgore is a GOD.

[tigerbears]

THE PRONOUNS ESSAY IS FINALLY OUT!

(Are they non-binary? — Analyzing Undertale/Deltarune's trans representation.)

The quint essential video on Undertale and Deltarune's trans and non-binary representation. If any video is going to end nearly a decade of discourse/arguing over if these games have non-binary characters or not, it's probably this one!

(Oh what am I kidding people are still going to scream about the gender and pronouns discourse but one can hope!)

Every argument is tackled!

Someone on Reddit claiming that Legends of Localization supposedly confirms that the character's genders are up for interpretation? We analyses what the book actually says!

Someone says that they/them pronouns aren't exclusive to enbys? We'll take every other logical explanation for they/them pronouns (besides an enby gender idendity), and analyses almost every single they/them character in UT/DR, to see if their pronouns can be explained without a non-binary gender identity!! (Spoiler alert, most can't be explained without an enby gender!!!)

If someone tries to argue why Kris is non-binary, this video likely debunks their argument! It's probably one of, if not the most extensive video analyzing, and arguing for Undertale and Deltarune's Transgender/Non-Binary Representation!

This is a video I've spent many long and hard months making so I hope it makes a difference!

Below is a list of all of the sources, videos, and music used in the essay.

Sources:

First, while I don’t use any of their content in the pronouns essay, I have to thank trans-utdr on Tumblr for cataloging most of the instances when characters are they/themed. Their blog was a great help in the creation of this video essay. https ://www.tumblr.com/trans-utdr

Also forgot to mention this, but Catticus helped out with the creation of the subtitles, so giving them credit for that.

[00] 00:12 "UNDERTALE Release Trailer" — FwugRadiation:

https://youtu.be/1Hojv0m3TqA

[01] 01:49 Archive of Toby Fox's Twitter:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150102011636/https://twitter.com/FwugRadiation

[02] 02:18 "Undertale - Mad Mew Mew (Full Boss Fight) - SPOILERS for Switch version" — Todd Christiansen:

https://youtu.be/h__y5gyJZKw

[03] 02:56 “Kris and I - Queer Joy in the Undertale and Deltarune Fandom” — Shadow of Roserade:

https://youtu.be/ykIiHLVbk5E

[04] 03:20 Archived Outer Wilds Fig page: Localization

https://web.archive.org/web/20200417195939/https://www.fig.co/campaigns/outer-wilds/updates/831

[05] 04:45 "Bridget Trans Real" — Guilty Gear Official: (I don't think this is the real official one btw just a fan channel)

https://youtu.be/1mJZR9MpIL8

[06] 05:16 "In Stars and Time - OUT NOW on PC, Switch, PS4, and PS5!" — Armor Games Studios:

https://youtu.be/Glec7uzohbg

[07] 05:22 In Stars and Time Steam Page:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1677310/In_Stars_And_Time/

[08] 05:25 "Celeste Any% in 24:58.023" — secureaccount

https://youtu.be/jNE6lSSbYNM

[09] 05:28 "MaddyMakesGames Article 'Is Madeline Canonically Trans?'"

https://maddymakesgames.com/articles/is_maddy_trans/

[10] 05:32 (and 04:56 was when it was first used) "Guilty Gear -Strive- - Bridget Announcement Trailer | PS5 & PS4 Games" — PlayStation:

https://youtu.be/3GYL5FVpjG4

[11] 05:35 "Guilty Gear Strive Developer: Bridget Identifies as a Woman"

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2022-09-14/guilty-gear-strive-developer-bridget-identifies-as-a-woman/.189673

[12] 05:35 "Guilty Gear -Strive- Developers: Bridget Was Always Meant to Be Transgender"

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2022-10-31/guilty-gear-strive-developers-bridget-was-always-meant-to-be-transgender/.191273

[13] 07:34 Legends of Localization Book 3 Undertale — Clyde Mandelin

https://www.fangamer.com/products/legends-of-localization-undertale

[14] 09:21 "OneShot: World Machine Edition - Announcement Trailer - Nintendo Switch" — Nintendo of America:

https://youtu.be/8PaAA0GkSv4

[15] 09:30 "What is Niko's gender" An ask on Eliza's Tumblr:

https://elizavq.tumblr.com/post/113737817876/hello-i-really-like-this-game-but-one-question-I

[16] 09:33 "Is Niko a boy or a girl?" An ask on Nightmargin's Tumblr:

https://nightmargin.tumblr.com/post/140577597251/what-is-nikos-gender-if-they-have-one-i-heard

[17] 09:38 OneShot Fandom Wiki page for Niko:  

https://oneshot.fandom.com/wiki/Niko#Trivia

[18] 09:50 Singular they — Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

[19] 10:47 (46) "Arthur. Season 9 Episode 2: Buster the Myth Maker" — Clip from Mr. Toydarian.

https://youtu.be/iHrZRJR4igQ

[20] 11:08 "UNDERTALE 6th Anniversary So We Play DELTARUNE Chapter 1 For Some Reason - LIVE!" — Fangamer: (01:26:04)

https://www.youtube.com/live/rksOYId-cNA?t=5164

[21] 11:15 "Spy Kids 2: The Island of Lost Dreams" — Clip from No Roof Access.

https://youtu.be/0RFwyobtnKA

[22] 11:24 Retrospective on UNDERTALE’s Popularity. — Toby Fox

https://undertale.tumblr.com/post/150397346860/retrospective-on-undertales-popularity

[23] 11:27 "Undertale Dev: “Every Monster Should Feel Like an Individual”" — The Escapist

https://www.escapistmagazine.com/undertale-dev-every-monster-should-feel-like-an-individual/

[24] 11:30 "INTERVIEW: TOBY FOX OF UNDERTALE" — The Existential Gamer

https://web.archive.org/web/20151009110646/https://existentialgamer.com/interview-toby-fox-of-undertale

[25] 11:34 Archive of Toby Fox's Twitter:  

https://web.archive.org/web/20190104182550/https://Twitter.com/tobyfox/status/1081239086847967232

[26] 11:37 "What's NEXT For Theorist and GTLive... |  Goodbye Internet Meme Review 👏🖐" — GTLive (00:39:23)

https://youtu.be/ytiOWeRWTWc?t=2363

[27] 12:37 Undertale Goblin Finally Plays the Earthbound Halloween Hack: — Andrew Cunningham (03:48:53)

https://www.youtube.com/live/RkbhUqpAriw?t=13733

[28] 13:17 "Undertale, Deltarune, and Shattering The 4th Wall - Deep Dive & Analysis" — Pet Brick Productions (long video but the section used is early in the essay)

https://youtu.be/R_MPC6SF_-Q

[29] 13:43 Community post on the future of Underverse — Jael Peñaloza

https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxA_OLCv2J__KjAS12U5y2uc13rRGW8_dZ

Update — Jael Peñaloza

https://youtu.be/OC9Ob7pHUlA

[30] 13:46 TC-96: — Endertale

https://xxtc-96xx.tumblr.com/post/152843470458/the-cover-page-to-endertale-da-da-daaaaaaaaa

[31] 13:43 "ONCE MORE, WITH FEELING! | Undertale LIVE - Part 1" — Mariplier (00:03:44)

https://www.youtube.com/live/9rvY7uvZhtw?t=224

[32] 13:48 "Game Theory: Who is W.D. Gaster? (Undertale)" — The Game Theorists

https://youtu.be/8wzxbR5vfjE

[33] 14:07 "OneShot Trailer" — KOMODO

https://youtu.be/ctYNBd6t4-g

[34] 14:21 “Watsonian versus Doylist” — TV Tropes:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WatsonianVersusDoylist

[35] 16:16 SPAMTON SWEEPSTAKES — Fangamer

https://deltarune.com/sweepstakes/

[36] 16:20 Twitter's Spamton Q&A — Fangamer

https://web.archive.org/web/20220919005433/https://twitter.com/Fangamer/status/1571363913543061505

[37] 17:23 Archive of Toby's old posts on starman.net:

https://web.archive.org/web/20151215011757/https://forum.starmen.net/forum/Community/PKHack/UnderBound/page/1#post1915463

[38] 18:04 Out of Context Toby Fox: Cursed bottomless Asriel retweet.

https://twitter.com/OutOfRadiation/status/1522037914565332992

[39] 18:15 "Non-binary characters in Undertale and Deltarune" — suzyundertale on Tumblr:

https://suzyundertale.tumblr.com/post/185072983702/non-binary-characters-in-undertale-and-deltarune

[40] 18:59 Undertale 5th anniversary alarm clock app —

https://undertale.com/alarmclock/flowey/

[41] 19:08 The 9th anniversary newsletter Chara 9 letter

https://toby.fangamer.com/interviews/letter/

[42] 19:14 "Soulless Genocide Ending (3 Geno Runs in a Row)" — Lucas

https://youtu.be/SUW7ZTr36QI

[43] 19:33 "English neutral pronouns" — nonbinary wiki

https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/English_neutral_pronouns#It

[44] 20:06 "Responding to 1200 Comments on my Deltarune Video [Part 1]" — Andrew Cunningham (01:25:03)

https://www.youtube.com/live/vuP97sQGwy4?t=5103

[45] 20:25 "An Undertale Goblin's first Earthbound Playthrough [Part 5]" — Andrew Cunningham (02:59:26)

https://www.youtube.com/live/aE_ZS0HOUCE?t=10766

[46] 22:15 "Some comments on Deltarune’s official Japanese translation" — kazarinn on tumblr (Basically, these are some Japanese tweets translated into English.)

https://kazarinn.tumblr.com/post/179845924892/some-comments-on-deltarunes-official-japanese

[47] 24:22 "Star Trek: The Next Generation" S5: EP 17 —

Use a VPN to access it on Netflix if you're in a country where it's not on Netflix.

[48] 24:54 Catticus's neocities

https://catticus.neocities.org/

[49] 25:37 "Personal pronouns in Japanese." — Wa-pedia

https://www.wa-pedia.com/language/japanese_personal_pronouns.shtml

[50] 25:43 "自分 is a Japanese pronoun that means "self."" — tofugu

https://www.tofugu.com/japanese-grammar/jibun/

[51] 26:29 "Undertale - Nintendo Switch Release Trailer" — IGN:

https://youtu.be/SqjY_-beWi0

[52] 27:19 "Why Mad Mew Mew Matters | Undertale Character Analysis" — Dorked

https://youtu.be/Qld3inSZdjc

[53] 27:48 "Undertale Xbox One Dog Shrine Fuzz Dialogue" — Jacky720

https://youtu.be/0MhVfjqKbqw

[54] 31:39 Artwork of Felix (A Perseverance/Purple SOUL OC) by Venn November

https://vennnovember.tumblr.com/post/759592211087245312/my-perseverance-soul-interpretation-felix

[55] 31:39 Artwork of Clover from UTY's GameJolt Page. (Idk who made it)

https://gamejolt.com/games/UndertaleYellow/136925

[56] 33:37 "Deltarune Chapter 1 Demo Unused" Text — The Cutting Room Floor.

https://tcrf.net/Proto:Deltarune/Chapter_1_Demo_(2018)/Unused_Text#Glow_Tile_Puzzle_Hint

[57] Spamton Sweepstakes "the n3w3st g1rl g1rl" post from Noelle (the newest girl girl)

https://deltarune.com/the_n3w3st_g1rl_g1rl/

[58] 35:03 "UNDERTALE 6th Anniversary So We Play DELTARUNE Chapter 1 For Some Reason - LIVE!" — Fangamer (03:28:03)

https://www.youtube.com/live/rksOYId-cNA?t=12483

[59] 36:50 Azzypants artwork by sleepyfox on ACDS

https://discord.com/channels/919115374316908584/1105217442692735147/1202150731982049340

[60] 40:29 "UNDERTALE 6th Anniversary So We Play DELTARUNE Chapter 1 For Some Reason - LIVE!" — Fangamer (01:19:15)

https://www.youtube.com/live/rksOYId-cNA?t=4755

[61] 41:01 "The Japanese Version of Deltarune" — @guster-animations

https://guster-animations.tumblr.com/750855218738200576/the-japanese-version-of-deltarune

[62] 41:10 Rakugo NZ

https://rakugonz.com/2017/08/23/welcome/

https://rakugonz.com/2020/11/18/many-ways-to-say-i-in-japanese-explained/

[63] 41:22 "CHAPTER 2 CONCEPT ART!!!" — 9th-anniversary newsletter.

https://toby.fangamer.com/interviews/chapter2_concept/

[64] 41:34 "Artwork of Jevil from Temmie Chang" — Temmie's twitter.

https://web.archive.org/web/20181106165142/https://twitter.com/tuyoki/status/1059681874707144704

[65] 42:27 Valentine’s newsletter letters Archived by @obscuretobyfox

https://obscuretobyfox.tumblr.com/post/742265034465509376/tumblr-limits-30-images-to-a-post-so-these-three

[66] 42:34 "What are El Niño and La Niña?" — N.O.A.A

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/ninonina.html

[67] 42:38 El Niño–Southern Oscillation — Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Ni%C3%B1o%E2%80%93Southern_Oscillation#Definition_and_terminology

[68] 42:42 "el & la" — spanishdict

https://www.spanishdict.com/translate/the?langFrom=en

[69] 42:52 "UT/DR Summer 2024 Newsletter" — fangamer

https://toby.fangamer.com/newsletters/summer24/

[70] 43:00 "QUESTS TO RELEASE CHAPTER 3&4!!" — fangamer

https://toby.fangamer.com/updates/quests/

[71] 44:19 Antlers — Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antler#Female_antlers_in_reindeer

[72] 44:24 “Role of gonadal hormones in the regulation of the seasonal antler cycle in female reindeer, Rangifer tarandus” In Reproduction

https://rep.bioscientifica.com/view/journals/rep/101/1/jrf_101_1_019.xml?rskey=2YvrOn&result=1

Where to find music used:

UNDERTALE Soundtrack:

https://tobyfox.bandcamp.com/album/undertale-soundtrack

OneShot Soundtrack:

https://nightmargin.bandcamp.com/album/oneshot-soundtrack

Omori OST:

https://omori.bandcamp.com/album/omori-ost

Unused Music from the 9th-Anniversary UT/DR Newsletter

https://toby.fangamer.com/interviews/chapter2_music/

Outer Wilds - Original Soundtrack:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1286760/Outer_Wilds__Original_Soundtrack/

Mother 3's Soundtrack:

You figure it out! You can't buy the game after all!

In Stars and Time (a soundtrack)

https://thumpypuppy.bandcamp.com/album/in-stars-and-time-a-soundtrack

Celeste Original Soundtrack

https://radicaldreamland.bandcamp.com/album/celeste-original-soundtrack

Chrono Trigger OST

Idk maybe spotify https://open.spotify.com/album/2kOD9QzcUkeT57RJkNvQpH

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Original Soundtrack

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1335140/Phoenix_Wright_Ace_Attorney_Original_Soundtrack/

Homestuck: Unreleased Tracks

https://youtu.be/sCFuOmInTxQ

Minecraft: Story Mode (Original Soundtrack)

https://antimo.bandcamp.com/album/minecraft-story-mode-original-soundtrack

Undertale: Your Best Companion Soundtrack

(Basically the tracks not in the UT soundtrack/more accurate to the in-game versions)

https://sanctferum.tumblr.com/post/139856660312/undertale-your-best-companion-soundtrack

Spamton Sweepstakes Music

Find Her

https://deltarune.com/dess/

Battle Vapor https://deltarune.com/shadowmen/

Star Trek: The Next Generation Soundtrack

Also "idk maybe spotify" https://open.spotify.com/track/5uVt4uR9bdqYnhcQ0IUhVc

Undertale (Switch)

Mad Mew Mew https://youtu.be/aeM0EVs1ON8 (Though I use the "Your Best Companion" version in the video)

Brandish SNES OST

Don't think it's been released officially so idk you figure it out.

Miscellaneous

Nightmare Knight https://fwugradiation.tumblr.com/post/94770096436/every-5000-years-the-terrible-nightmare-knight

Battle Vapor (extended) by Witherskull42: https://soundcloud.com/gaster-78444506/deltarune-battle-vapor-ogg

Music Used:

00:01 Undertale: Your Best Nightmare

00:12 Undertale: Snowdin Town

01:16 OneShot: Phosphor

01:56 Omori: Where we used to play 44

2:29 9th-Anniversary UTDR newsletter’s unused tracks: Spamton battle forgotten

2:40 Outer Wilds: Timber Hearth

4:11 Mother 3: Alec’s Log House

5:16 In Stars and Time: Title Theme

5:24 Celeste: Frist Steps

6:24 Chrono Trigger: Black Dream

7:22 Ace Attorney: Objection! 2001

8:41 HOMESTUCK: [S] Jane: Blast off.

8:46 Ace Attorney: Pursuit - Corner the Culprit

9:30 OneShot: On little Cat Feel

10:11 Ace Attorney: Pursuit - Corner the Culprit (Variation)

11:24 Minecraft: Story Mode: Ivor’s theme [101]

11:51 Deltarune: NOW’S YOUR CHANCE TO BE A

12:40 Oneshot: Geothermal

14:44 Deltarune: A Town Called Hometown

16:00 Deltarune: Hip Shop

16:58 Undertale: Another Medium

17:27 Undertale: Dog Song

17:40 Undertale Bonetrousle

18:14 Undertale: Snowey (well, used a version closer to the one used in ingame)

18:49 Undertale: Star (Unused)

19:38 Undertale: The Core (Geno version)

20:09 Mother 3: Sorrowful Tazmily

20:32 Spamton Sweepstakes (and maybe Deltarune in the future: Find Her.

21:20 Undertale: Waterfall

22:12 Deltarune: Vs. Susie

22:49 Deltarune: Chill Jailbreak Alarm to Study and Relax to

23:19 Undertale: Death By Glamor

24:22 Star Trek: The Next Generation: Main Theme.

24:46 Undertale: Metal Crusher

25:58 Undertale: The Core

26:29 Undertale Switch (From the "Your Best Companion" Collection): Mad Mew Mew

28:01 Undertale: Dummy!

29:57 Undertale: Hotel

31:19 Undertale: It’s Raining Somewhere Else

33:25 Deltarune: Quiet Autumn

23:02 Ace Attorney: Pursuit - Corner the Culprit (again)

35:38 Deltarune: Pandora Palace.

37:09 Deltarune: Another Him

38:00 Undertale Amalgam

39:35 9th Anniversary UTDR Newsletter: POWER OF NEO (Complete)

40:16 Deltarune: Lantern

40:50 Brandish SNES: Quiet Shop

41:17 Deltarune: Smart Race

41:55 Deltarune: The Chase

42:10 A Cucumber Quest fansong by Toby Fox: Nightmare Knight

42:15 Deltarune: The Door

42:23 Spamton Sweepstakes: Battle Vapor

42:25 Battle Vapor (extended) Witherskull42:

43:14 Deltarune: You Can Always Come Home

43:31 Deltarune: Girl Next Door

46:03 Undertale: Last Goodbye

[yrlocalghost]

i feel like the thing that really gets to me personally about chara undertale specifically is that at the heart of the story, everything is happening because they were just so loved and nobody (except flowey/asriel) knows about why they died.

toriel visits their grave often, and has never really recovered from losing her children. she took their body and carried it all the way back to the ruins. considering monster customs, this is probably the first time she had ever actually buried someone. it’s grim, but it was out of love.

asgore essentially carries out the remainder of their plan, despite never knowing that there was a plan. he declares war on humanity in the name of both of his children. he has golden flowers everywhere, which only started growing after their death.

literally just. everything about flowey. flowey is the core driving force of the plot, and everything he does essentially comes down go being about his trauma and his grief. this should probably be an entirely separate post

AND ALSO the golden flowers are everywhere and so indicative of them and the grief surrounding that. toriel tries to move on, so you don’t really see many in her home but she visits the grave. asgore has them everywhere and when you get to the throne room, its covered. flowey just straight up IS a golden flower.

the other thing that is interesting is that nobody except flowey (and technically alphys) knows why or how they died. and honestly? it does not really matter. knowing wouldn’t change anything. they’re dead either way. asriel had to carry the burden of that knowledge alone, which is another separate post.

but Yes anyways this is getting Long but the point is that it just makes me insane that chara was just so so loved. it didn’t matter that they were troubled or came from a bad situation, it didn’t matter that maybe they “weren’t the greatest person” or anything. they had a place they belonged, they had it really good for a while and they couldn’t handle that but they were very loved and that is the heart and driving force of the story and i

[sbtorms]

I keep talking about this, and I don't care that I've kept repeating it. Okay, so... Undertale's murder route has a max kill count of 120 (with a minimum of 101).

The minimum comes from 20+16+18+40, +7 bosses. The maximum comes from the possibility of a multi enemy encounters being your last for each area, plus the fact that minibosses can be encountered even after the kill counter is exhausted.

120 kills...

This screenshot alone has more than 100 monster souls, I think. The animation has 10 souls per each circle of monster souls. There could definitely be thousands of souls within Asriel, ...and then there's the fact that the screen fades to white and stuff like that.

And then there's something in the Mettaton EX fight...

The RATINGS number can get to 12000+. 12000+ is the max number to have that'd end the fight.

"OOH, LOOK AT THESE RATINGS!!! THIS IS THE MOST VIEWERS I'VE EVER HAD!!!"

this is the VIEWER COUNT THE UNDERGROUND HAS 12000+ MONSTERS

The fact that the Underground has 12000+ monsters, yet the route where your goal is to basically kill everyone has a max kill count of 120...

It means that you've only killed less than a percent of the monster population.

[the-irreverend]

I've come to love this scene much more after reading the latest newsletter because it demonstrates how Asriel's relationship/understanding towards Chara changed for the better after the Pacifist ending.

It shows that even after saying that Chara "wasn't the greatest person", Asriel doesn't completely hate or resent Chara despite their failures and shortcomings as siblings, and he still wants to see them happy and content.

When Asriel said Chara "wasn't the greatest person," it meant that he let go of his unhealthy view/relationship with them; NOT THAT HE LET GO OF THE LOVE AND CARE HE STILL FEELS FOR THEM AS HE STILL WANTS TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM!

Another way this scene greatly demonstrates Asriel's growth as a character is that it also shows that despite everything, Asriel/Flowey still recognizes Chara's CAPACITY FOR GOOD DESPITE THEIR MANY FLAWS.

The line "nothing can hurt anyone anymore" PROVES that he isn't saying that because of wishful thinking, but that he KNOWS FOR A FACT that Chara had good intentions (even if they paved the road to hell with them).

So when Flowey tells Chara there's nothing to worry about, he's reassuring/comforting Chara by telling them that they finally got what they wanted and that the people they care about have got the freedom and prosperity that Chara wanted for them all along, even if it didn't happen the way they intended!

[inbarfink]

Any analysis of how Undertale deals with Pacifism and how it tries to guide the Player towards it has to take a deep look at Papyrus. Because Papyrus is the one character in the game who will never kill, the one actual ‘True Pacifist’ in the game’s main cast. 

I mean, the Player can be an even bigger Pacifist. Papyrus does still FIGHT, and the Player can get through an entire run without draining a single sliver of HP. But… they can also be the world’s biggest murderbastard and literally stab reality to death. 

Toriel would very much like to not kill, but she is also fully capable of doing so.

Same with Asgore, but he has a lot more actual blood on his hands. Undyne and Mettaton are both fully 100% willing to kill to accomplish their goals. Sans is non-violent in most runs because he’s too lazy and depressed to do anything, and when he is motivated into actions - it is in the form of a FIGHT to the death. Alphys… the timeline is a bit fuzzy cause both she and Mettaton love lying so much, but it seems like she did sincerely add deadly weapons to Mettaton cause killing humans would make him more 'useful' and then had second thoughts once she developed a parasocial relationship with the Human Child and THEN she and Mettaton started hatching their little play-acting plan. I think??

With Papyrus there is NONE of this ambiguity, we know for sure - no matter what timeline or what may come - The Great Papyrus will always choose MERCY.

And the interesting thing about that is on a Meta-Sense, Papyrus is a very rare example of the game giving MERCY towards the Player. 

Because the game starts out being really obtuse with the Sparing mechanic and how it works. If you want to be a Pacifist in Undertale from the get-go, you’re gonna have to work for it. You're gonna have to figure it out on your own and commit to it and believe that it's possible. It's basically a test of your own belief in non-violence and your moral integrity. Then, the RUINS end with the Toriel boss battle - in a way, that’s probably the hardest Sparing puzzle in the whole game. And it’s very very easy to accidentally kill her. (I’d almost say that’s the intention of the battle, to try to goad the Player into Resetting so they can see how the game remembers across RESETs)

And then we have Papyrus, and it’s not just that his ‘Sparing Puzzle’ is something as simple as outlasting him and letting him run out of dialogue - and it’s not just that he’s the only boss that will just give up and let you continue if you lose to him enough times. it’s also that, just as Papyrus is the only boss incapable of accidentally killing the Player - he’s also the only boss that the player is incapable of accidentally killing.

(Okay, fine, to be pedantic, there’s also Asgore)

I mean, the Player can certainly kill him if they want to - but draining Papyrus’s HP just makes him skip through his battle dialogue right to the end of it. It’s designed in such a way that, no matter what Route you're on and no matter what approach you take with Papyrus - you will always end up on this screen.

Unlike basically any other Monster in this game, including the major boss battle just before him - you can’t kill Papyrus accidently. You can't kill him without also having Sparing him as an option. The game kinda treats killing Papyrus as one of the Worst Things You Can Do because killing Papyrus will always be a deliberate, considered action done to a person who will not kill you and who has stopped wanting to FIGHT and has extended a hand of Mercy. With the game clearly communicating what you need to do to Spare him at that moment.

And that means that - even if you killed before, even if you don’t have the patience of a True Pacifist, even if you spent all this time in the game without even trying to engage with the Sparing mechanic… as long as you don’t want to be a Huge Rat Bastard, the game is basically gifting you with the very very easy option to not be. Being a Pacifist in Undertale is usually a challenge - a puzzle to be solved, a test to pass. But as long as you aren’t intentionally trying to be the Worst Person - the game is basically giving you Papyrus. 

If you accept his Mercy, you are accepting the game’s Mercy. That sort of benefit-of-the-doubt assumption that maybe all of the LOVE you might have accumulated so far was all due to honest mistakes or panic or an attempt in self-defense. That you still deserve this one chance to prove that you are not intentionally, maliciously cruel - or at least not like the Worst Person in the World. Even if you did kill before, you still deserve at least one friend.

And Sparing Papyrus leads you to his wonderful Hangout/Dating Sequence and to his Phone Calls and they all add so much wholesome charm to the Undertale experience and no matter what happens Papyrus will always think the best of the Player and he will always trust them and it also makes Sans also kinda your buddy by default. And more than just adding a little bit of wholesome charm into even the more LOVE-filled Playthroughs, I think this is meant to try and incentivize these players into trying out the Mercy mechanic a bit more.

Whatever it’s, like, for future playthroughs or Resetting the game right there to try a True Pacifist Run right there and then or just trying to be a little kinder for the rest of this current playthrough - especially since there’s an emphasis about the close friendship Papyrus has with the upcoming boss Undyne, and to a lesser extent with his idol and next-next boss battle Mettaton. It’s like “well, if you didn’t figure out how to spare before, this is how you do it? And isn’t it nice to have a friend? Isn’t it nice to not have to kill this lovable skeleton man? You should do this more often wink wink nudge nudge!”

And it’s like… all of Papyrus’ loved ones care about him so much but they also look down on his pacifism. They see his inability to kill and desire to make friends as simple naivete and that’s why all tend to hide the truth from him all the time. About what will happen to the Human he will capture, about what his new Human friend might’ve done, about the fact that they view him as so naïve. 

They admire it on some level, that’s why they want to protect it, but they also see it as a weakness which is why they want to protect it by lying to him all the time. But, you know, Undyne says that if Papyrus goes into battle he’ll be ‘ripped into little smiling shreds’ and that is certainly what happens every time a Player chooses to refuse Papyrus’ Mercy and the game’s Mercy and press that FIGHT button…

But have you thought about all the times that doesn’t happen? All the careless or violent players who were offered that skeletal hand of friendship, accepted it and then carried that offered kindness forward for the rest of the game? All the players motivated to do good for the sake of their buddy Papyrus? All the Murder Routes stopped because the player just didn’t have it in them to kill someone who believes in them so earnestly?

Like, no, it’s not a surefire thing - especially since Papyrus has so much less narrative power than the Actual Unkillable Time God that is the Player. But it happened, and it happened many many times to many players. Papyrus offered Mercy, the game offered Mercy. And much like Frisk’s Pacifism, it comes from a place of seeing the honest goodness in your ‘enemy’ and can inspire them to become a better person - this little sparkle of goodness being passed forwards. 

And I think that’s beautiful, even if it didn’t happen in every timeline. Any potential future where Papyrus’ kindness can have such an effect on the Player and thus the entire trajectory of the Underground validates his kindness and pacifism on some level - even if there are also always the potential worlds that it backfires completely. 

And there’s also one other way in which the Great Papyrus Proves Pacifism Pays. One that is a bit more practical, perhaps. And one that Papyrus himself is not even aware of. 

Papyrus’ boss battle can be a surprisingly challenging one specifically because he is the only one who doesn’t kill the Player.

Like there is a reason why Papyrus will just offer you to skip his Fight after you lose to him three times, because if he didn’t do that - there’s an honest risk that the Player can get stuck in a much stuckier way than anywhere else in the game. 

Because, like, for basically any other character in the game, being killed is the Worst Thing that could ever happen to them. For everyone except the actual Player Character because we are an Actual Unkillable Time God and dying is nothing more than a minor annoyance that sets you back to your last SAVE Point. So, leaving aside Papyrus’ admirably kind intentions - there is not much material difference from the Player’s perspective between getting Captured and getting a more traditional GAME OVER. Except…

Except getting Captured does not undo everything that happened in your inventory during the battle. In every other Undertale battle, if you use all of your items but still lose - the GAME OVER at least means you get your stuff back. But because Papyrus doesn’t kill you, any healing item you’ve used during the battle is still used. I have watched so many Undertale Let’s Players waste all of their valuable items on their first Papyrus battle and then have to face him again without them and thus do even worse in their second go… and then their third go... and thankfully then Papyrus offers them to skip the fight.

And while that technically can be circumvented by just manually closing the game and opening it back again on their pre-battle SAVE Point, a lot of players are gonna reflexively Save over it if they pop over to the Shop or the Snowed Inn before their second attempt at the battle. If Papyrus didn’t offer that chance to skip his battle, it could’ve easily become a softlock situation for a huge chunk of players - because he doesn’t kill the Player.

Most of Undertale deals with the value of non-violence from a standpoint of morality and kindness and personal connections. Since most people do die when they get killed. But when dealing with an Unkillable Time God like the Player, Papyrus proves that not-killing might actually be the most practical solution.

Of course, it doesn’t seem like Papyrus is aware of any of this. From his perspective, he is just offering genuine mercy to a being just as ephemeral as he is. But it accidentally turned into one of the most effective methods of blocking the Player’s way… at least he didn’t offer us an opt out so soon after that. 

And it’s interesting when comparing him to how his brother Sans - one of the few people actually aware of the existence of SAVEs and RESETs - deals with the Player. Because the Sans boss battle at the end of the Murder Route is entirely based on the concept that death is nothing but an annoyance to the Player. Sans is less trying to kill the Player (the way Undyne the Undying did), he is simply trying to annoy the Player into a ragequit. But he is still killing the Player.

Now imagine a Sans battle where he has all of his usual annoying tricks, but also instead of killing you - he captures you just like his brother would’ve in a happier timeline. And while it’s not a fool-proof plan to stop the Player in their tracks - he could very easily stick them in that sort of softlock situation where they have to battle him again and again without any Healing Items. Forcing them to either abandon the game or RESET the whole world back the way it was - just like Sans wants them too. 

But instead, by killing the Player, he is just allowing that perfect second-third-fourth-fifth-sixth-try where they get all of their Stuff back. And he does actually knows that. And why doesn’t he do that? (Speaking here from an in-universe character study perspective. Obviously the Doylist answer is that the game doesn’t want to Softlock you even in the most deliberately-frustrating part of the game).

Maybe, even though he intellectually knows that killing the Player will be of no help - he still does it because he wants to. Because he just wants to get back at the evil murderous monster that took his brother from him and destroyed his entire world even if he knows it’s actually ineffective. And this thirst for bloodshed is, ironically, blinding him from a new exciting way to actually practically stop that murderous bastard who is themself motivated entirely by bloodshed. 

Maybe he just can’t do something like that. Reducing an enemy to exactly one HP and then stopping is not a feat anyone else in the game is capable of pulling off - even the ones who would obviously use such a thing (like Toriel or a Player with a Pacifist intentions). Maybe it’s something that requires a lot of hard practice and discipline and carefulness, that Sans never thought to put in because he didn’t see it as a useful skill the way Papyrus did. 

Maybe that wouldn’t have worked anyways. After all, and that’s something I kinda touched on in a previous Overly Long Rambly Hot Take - Sans’ War of Attrition against the Player is greatly helped by the fact he can’t remember every single previous try and so he can’t get exhausted the way the Player can get. Obviously, without a GAME OVER induced RESET that will not apply. Which is especially notable because… Sans’ laziness is literally what brings him down at the end of that Boss Battle. 

So maybe, while Papyrus, as long as you decline his offer to skip the battle, is capable of offering just the same Battle as before over and over and over again.... It’s possible that Sans just won’t be able to pull off two or three or more battles of the same intensity and difficulty in a row without a RESET to undo his own exhaustion. 

But I think it’s at least worth considering the option, y’know? That after all this time of viewing Papyrus’ kindness as sweet-and-yet-kinda-foolish-naïveté - that exact viewpoint made Sans overlook the perfect solution to dealing with his little Murderous Time God problem. Cause he just never considered that while killing might be fully morally justifiable in this situation and very very satisfying, that does not necessarily mean it is actually the most practical solution. And that maybe, in a weirdly twisted way, Pacifism WAS the answer.  

[bogos-bint3d]

ok ok I trust you to be as insane about this as I am

in the seven eight nine dialogue, when Alphys talks about how seven loved five and was just doing what they felt they had to, Toriel interprets it as being Asgore doing what he had to for monsterkind, but I think she was actually thinking of Undyne doing what she felt like she had to by attacking Frisk, because she loves Asgore (and Alphys). being "sicced" on them as the captain of the royal guard, and playing the rule of the "misled antihero" in undertale's story.

when Toriel says that this makes seven "weak", Undyne bursts in with a distracting display of strength, trying to dismiss the topic. you could make the argument that she just wants to defuse Toriel from being mad at Asgore, but she has a seriously pissed look on her face. as if she took that personally, but also didn't know how to argue with it...

ANON. ANON YOU ARE SO FUCKING CORRECT FOR THIS HOLY SHIT. ANON. ANON WHO ARE YOU ILY

DUDE YOUR MIND UXJSJSJSJSJSJSJJSJD IM AO CTAZY ABOUT THIS MAN TY FOR SENDKNG THIS YOU ARE SO SMART OML SHSHSJSKSKSKK

^actual image of me right now thank you so so so so much anonymous. When I find you.

[megaderping]

Time and time again, people have tried to discredit Alphys' work in the Determination Experiments by crediting at least some of the True Lab entries to Gaster. A recent theory making the rounds has once again misled people into taking this as fact, and in this video, I take a critical look at the entries to prove that Alphys wrote all of them as well as debunking several of the arguments used to claim that Gaster was involved. Sources include both Undertale and Deltarune, the Undertale Gaster twitter takeovers, the Legends of Localization book, and the recent Valentines newsletter. My goal in this video is to put this argument to rest, as it relies on many cherrypicked pieces of information that really don't hold up under scrutiny and are a disservice to Alphys and Gaster both.

[nightfurynova1217]

There might already be a post about this somewhere, but I haven’t been able to get this out of my head lately.

In regards to the differences between UT Alphys and DR Alphys, a lot of people obviously point out her take on Mew Mew 2, and the thing that’s been eating my brain is like… their different life experiences??

Okay so UT Alphys hates Mew Mew 2. She thinks it’s too edgy and she prefers the light tone of Mew Mew 1, but DR is exactly the opposite, she likes Mew Mew 2 and thinks 1 is childish.

However, in UT, Alphys is quite literally (accidentally) responsible for some of the most grotesque body-horror, science-experiment-gone-wrong her world has ever seen. She’s living with the constant guilt of what she did even though the final result was completely unforeseen and unintentional, the stress of keeping it all a secret and all the extra hoops she has to jump through to make sure it stays that way, added with the pressure of having successfully lied to Asgore by “creating” Mettaton and telling him she forged an artificial soul, and now she’s gotta keep up the act, with not just the ancient king looking to her for results, but the entire underground waiting for a repeat of her “success” so they can be freed sooner.

Contrast that with DR Alphys. She’s a high school teacher. In a small, pleasant, secluded town, where everyone knows everybody. Her highest point of stress is making sure Toriel doesn’t realize how lax she is with her students and what they can get away with in her class. And of course the pressure that she does wanna make sure she does a good job, she wants to be a good teacher and make sure her students are learning. But uh, that’s about it as far as I can recall.

Both Alphys’s are indulging in a fantasy.

UT wants a happy, feel-good story with minimal stakes or conflict. Not to say there wouldn’t be any, but to have the theme and genre leaning heavily into slice-of-life fluff, because her real life has too many stresses in it already.

DR is more interested in a deeper, darker story that delves into more adult-themes with higher consequences. Where the primary heroin is grounded and hardened through combat, and not as cute all the time. She wants angst, because her real life is secure and peaceful, and she feels safe and untriggered in consuming that kind of media.