#undertale rant

[theabyssqueen]

Chara is our partner, not our victim (rant)

Warning: may sound like Chara hate to some, but Chara is actually one of my favorite characters in Undertale since childhood. I love them. Please keep this in mind while reading this.

Undertale fandom (especially on Youtube and ESPECIALLY Tiktok) try to use critical thought and realise after 8 years that Chara is just as responsible for the Genocide route and is a willing participant in it challenge (impossible)

Like how can you think that Chara is punishing you for your sins at the end of Genocide or is disgusted with you if they helped you throughout it all?

We do not corrupt them.

We do not manipulate them.

Chara is your partner on equal grounds. They make it very clear right at the end of Genocide that you were never in control.

I repeat: we are NEVER in control of Chara.

Treating them as a lost and confused baby without any freedom of choice or thought is a disservice to the character.

Proof under the cut.

The Genocide Run has strict requirements for it to be started. For red text to appear, you need to kill 20 monsters in the Ruins, fully clearing them out. Yet, if you kill the first Froggit you meet, AND 19 monsters, Genocide does not begin. Why is that? I thought Chara was corrupted by all the LV and EXP we are gaining!

It's because Chara doesn't care if the first Froggit is killed or not. Only the monsters after it count.

Additionally, the last chance that Genocide can be aborted is right before Mettaton NEO, at which point, you should be at LV 15. Thing is, this LV can be reached even during a Neutral Run, by grinding 39 Knight Knights in the CORE. Yet, red text still doesn't appear.

Sparing monsters in Genocide is possible and doesn't deter Chara from the Run (but only if it's a common encounter).

Chara berates you if Snowdrake gets away and Genocide is aborted immediately.

Chara keeps count of the monsters needed to be killed and will stop you from advancing further in some sections if there are still monsters left.

They could easily just not do all of that.

Frisk's independent actions out of the Player's control during Genocide are actually not theirs, but Chara's. Chara kills Flowey, Asgore, and Sans. And while an argument could be made for us influencing Chara into killing Sans, the same cannot be made for Asgore's and Flowey's deaths. There isn't even any FIGHT button for us to press. The only thing we are doing at this point is advancing dialogue.

And this is considering that Flowey and Asgore were/are both Chara's family, or at least akin to one.

Listen, I get it. I also hate when people put all the blame on Chara. I also dislike when people just stamp "evil" onto them and erase all possible nuance. But that doesn't mean that we should go right into the opposite direction and act as if they're innocent or righteous.

At the end of Genocide, no matter your input on the matter, Chara ends the world. Not just you, not just the monsters still left alive in the Underground, but the whole universe. That indescribably outweighs all the misdeeds we have done during the Run.

Just think about it. Is really killing EVERYONE in the world justifiable, if you do it to punish someone? Even a murderer? To make them "see the consequences of their actions"?

How does that make sense?

How does that elevate them from you in any capacity?

Is it because they talk of "perverted sentimentality", which evades even them? Chara only talks about it if you try to return to the world you had a part in destroying. Chara only talks about if on the 2nd+ Genocide Run you do not comply with erasing everything.

In fact, if you play along, they compliment you. And they don't say anything about your feelings on the matter.

Killing and erasing is encouraged. If you do so, in Chara's eyes, you are a beneficial and trustworthy partner.

And the photo. The photo that appears at the end of Soulless Pacifist if you leave Toriel. Instead of Frisk, Chara is shown, and everyone else's faces are crossed out, implying that they are dead.

Some argue that this is just Chara trying to scare you, or remind you of all the murder you've committed, keeping you responsible.

Alphys is scribbled out.

It is impossible to kill Alphys in Genocide.

It's possible she kills herself during some pretty bad Neutral Runs. Not to mention that, in general, a lot of Neutral Runs are just as, if not worse than Genocide.

Why won't Chara guilt trip you for having done them, then?

And I just can't wrap my mind around someone thinking that Chara is literally pulling a "just a prank bro" here. Especially considering that this is never shown or hinted at to be the case.

And as the icing on the cake, look at the text that appears after the end of Genocide in the Undertale Demo:

To me, at this point, thinking that Chara is innocent is just denial.

Yes, Chara offers trying out a different route next time. Yet they sure as hell won't stop encouraging it if it is started all over again. No matter if it's the 1st, 2nd, or 100th time you decide to kill everyone to wipe out the world, Chara will play along. This is considering the fact that their dialogue changes on the 2nd Genocide, and thus, proof that Chara's memory is unaffected by RESETs or ERASEs.

Yes, Chara says that YOU were the one who lead this world to ruin. But in my opinion, considering their offer for you to try out a different path, and their actions in Soulless Pacifist (which are, again, out of their own volition and unprompted), Chara's ultimate goal is to take over your/Frisk's soul. Which is why the point fingers and erase their contribution in all the murder, to try and make you feel guilty for it, seeing how you clearly do not wish to part with this world so easily.

Evidently, they've succeeded.

Chara would never get what they want at the end, if not for your help. And you wouldn't get what you want, if not for Chara's help.

The Player and Chara are partners. Let's never forget that.

Credit to the Undertale Text Project for the screenshots and to the nochocolate blog for opening my eyes all those years ago. I love you nochoco.

[inu-jiru]

TORIEL RANT INCOMING:

So, a couple years back, I wrote a disorganized rant about why I was frustrated with Toriel’s character in Undertale, and what I’ve seen in the anniversary post (as well as Deltarune) show me that my issues with Toriel still exist. And before I say anything else, I KNOW that Undertale is about a bunch of flawed characters. I KNOW that know one is meant to be perfect. I KNOW that characters have flaws. My issue is, how am I expected to care about a character who won’t acknowledge her flaws while constantly pointing out the flaws of others?

My issue with Toriel is her lack of accountability and how she’s seemingly untouchable by the rest of the cast when it comes to criticism. For a game that rewards mercy and grace, she constantly denies it from others (Asgore mostly, but he’s not the only example), and is honestly has quite a nasty personality behind those butterscotch pies. I’m not saying she’s secretly some evil witch or something, but she’s far less likeable to me because she’s coddled by the narrative and no one challenges her flawed way of thinking. I hate to do this, because I believe that Toby Fox is a more competent writer than Vivziepop, but Toriel kinda reminds me of Stolas in that regard, and I already despise Stolas as a character, the lack of self-awareness, shifting blame onto others, no one in the narrative actually calling them out and acting all chummy despite barely knowing them, and a spouse who takes the fandom’s ire. I know that Stella is (badly) written to be a one-note villain to justify Stolas’ behavior, and while I extend Stella grace because of that unfortunate fact, I can’t be as kind to Toriel because I know she could be written better.

I favor Asgore as a character because he takes accountability not only for himself, but for his people. He was angry when he announced the war; I can’t imagine any parent would be rational the second after the murder of their kid. I see Toriel’s running away in a similar light, or at least, I want to. The thing stopping me is that there doesn’t seem to be any realization on her part that she was upset or that Asgore, the father of her murdered child, might not have been in the best state of mind when he made that order. She seems to forget the man she married and is content to label him and, to a lesser extent, the rest of the Underground, as the evil ones, while ironically being quiet should Frisk murder a Froggit on front of her or show up to her house covered in dust. For the brains behind the throne, she’s a bit dense, and I can’t tell if that’s a writing issue or simply a character flaw.

It frustrates me that her black-and-white way of thinking is never challenged throughout the game and how she’s allowed to lecture Asgore and lord over others despite giving up her place as Queen. To be fair, the only member of the main cast I could realistically see calling her out for appearing out of nowhere and taking over is Undyne, given how she rebels against Toriel in one of the endings. In the pacifist ending, though, she’s weirdly chill with her possible partner being fired over a genuine mistake in an effort to find a peaceful alternative to SOUL collecting. The characterization seems off between the Pacifist and Neutral endings, and Asgore is similar, as he seems far more self-aware and thoughtful and quick to adopt Frisk in the neutral runs, while he’s a whimpering coward who can’t make decisions the second Toriel appears. Again, I don’t know if these are genuine character flaws or just issues with the writing itself.

I think I’d like Toriel better had she:

1. Done a better job of actually protecting the humans, because it seems like she either just is useless at watching them or waits for the very last second to swoop in and play the hero, like with Frisk.

2. Gone WITH Frisk to ensure their safety as the last SOUL required instead of just abandoning them for her own feelings (honestly, she seems like she only really cares when it’s convenient, otherwise it’s out of sight, out of mind), and maybe actually seeing how Asgore provided his people with hope while compromising and playing the long game.

3. Stayed in the Underground and stuck with her morals rather than moving to the surface and enjoying the benefits that OTHERS had to sacrifice their morals for.

4. Was called out by Undyne in the True Pacifist Run, or at least challenged for appearing out of nowhere because, realistically, only Sans knows who she is, and even that’s pushing it. Sure she’d probably double down on her own flawed logic, but at least the issue of her abandoning her people would actually be addressed and not ignored because “tee hee Soriel! tee hee Undyne and Alphys are gonna kiss!!!”

And just to touch on Asgore really quickly, I’m not saying how he went about things was the perfect solution, but there is no squeaky-clean way to handle the situation of the Barrier. Like it or not, 7 people are required to die if the Barrier is to be broken, since the experiments were a bust in the worst way possible. The thing is, I don’t see why it couldn’t have been a plot point that Asgore raised the humans himself. I get that they wanted to make it ambiguous as to if he was a scary monster like Toriel describes him, or a soft baby like the kingdom claims, but it could’ve worked. Have Asgore shift his decree when he’s more rational to capturing humans and having them delivered to him to “deal with”. Not everyone would follow this, realistically, because some are far more murder-happy than others (gotta put those combat encounters somewhere), but imagine Frisk going around and hearing about the humans being sent off to Asgore and never been seen again, Asgore banning entrance his house to honor his lost family, but still going out and being the friendly king he truly wants to be. All the while, he raises up the humans who choose to seek peace with him, and those who act violently are the ones who face an early end. Make it a parallel to Toriel’s shoebox of different sized shoes, and Asgore’s basement of different sized graves. I don’t know, I guess what I’m saying is neither character was really given much time to properly be explored. I still enjoy the game and it’s impact on me, but it’s definitely not perfect. I have much more I could rant about, but I’d be here all night.

Deltarune!Toriel and Asgore are hard to watch, honestly. Asgore feels like even more of a brainless idiot who’s only character traits are being divorced and poor, while Toriel comes off as one of those overbearing Christian moms who clutch their pearls at everything, which is…definitely a choice. Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I want to like Toriel, I do. Hell, even during my hardcore Asgoriel days, I would actually write Toriel finally gaining some self-awareness and gaining some more nuance to her character, while Asgore actually learns to stand up for himself and not put up with Toriel’s passive-aggressiveness despite still loving her. Maybe I should write something about it for old time’s sake.

Anyway, that’s it for now. This is just my thoughts, agree or disagree if you want.

[icekingofhope]

(WARNING MENTIONING OF DARK TOPICS)

So side rant but one of the main things I love about Undertale it’s the two characters

Asriel/flowey and chara

they were are both traumatized children who had been threw a lot

chara was implied to be depressed and suicidal due to the flashbacks of them climbing the mountain and fallen (yes due to having their foot getting caught by a root but it’s impiled it would have happen either way)

after realizing they are alive and probably badly injured (cause you can’t tell me from a fall like that they aren’t injured) they called for help then their future best friend and Prince of monsters found them and brought them home where his parents aid their wounds and adopted them as their child

everything was perfect chara had a loving family a royal life but unfortunately even if good things do happen depression doesn’t just disappear

they then poison themselves for asriel to absorb their soul and go across the barrier to get six human souls to free the underground (I do have a theory that they were losing themselves to depression but didn’t want to leave their family stuck underground so they went and did what they did)

but after they died and asriel absorb their soul asriel gets himself killed by humans

but to make things worse asriel was then brought back to life as a sentient flower with no soul no ability to express emotions

and chara who presumably a ghost has to (what I guess in their own head) their family and friends leaving them behind and in genocide they are taught that murder was ok and such

and I hate how the fandom makes them out as “MWHAHAHAHAH IM EVIL “ when they aren’t really they are just traumatized children who were killed and brought back to life into soulless beings who wish they can go back and be kids again

[aikoiya]

Thoughts on Undertale

I've never liked Undertale's messages, because when you think about it, it comes across as being told "don't defend yourself against attackers," "just stand there & take the abuse as you try & reason with them," "don't even defend yourself from deadly force, even if it means you die," & "humans are evil & monsters are good even though the monsters are trying to kill you & take your literal soul to start a fucking war with humanity."

There's also the double standard of it all. The whole, "if YOU defend yourself against monsters who are trying to literally kill you & tear out your soul, then you're a horrible person, even more so if you kill them, even accidentally, but if the monsters attack you & legitimately try to kill you to take your soul & wage war upon other humans, then it's totally fine; they're just sweet, misunderstood softies." Fuck that!

For all Undertale's talk on pacifism. It only seems to apply to humans. No one talks badly about monsters when they're violent!

Sans is the worst, even though Toriel asked him to look out for Frisk, he took that to a literal degree & just watched, over & over again as Frisk was killed repeatedly & never once assissted them. He's an ass & a lot of the other characters are also asses in their own unique ways.

Even Toriel did something bad. All those kids? Yeah, they might not have died had Toriel escorted them out or, Hell, she could've told them that you can't get out without a monster soul. But, she didn't, she just let them go with false hope in their hearts.

The only one I think did alright is, ironically, Asgore, because he has the excuse that he was the literal king & knew that his people were running out of food & space, meaning they were on a timeclock. He also at least had the decency to regret the choices he made. You can feel it, see it, that he was sorry. Regret was pouring off of him. You know that he wouldn't have done this if he believed there was another way.

No one else who hurt Frisk ever seemed to have regretted their actions! Let alone apologize!

Alphys was, by far, the worst! Yeah! Yeah! Shy introverted bisexual lizard nerd! Whatever!

This isn't even about how she put Frisk in danger to prop herself up. This is about the Amalgamates! The Amalgamates are walking tragedies for multiple reasons.

Yes, it's tragic that those monsters are living in constant pain & that is awful. But at the very least they get attention. At least they get an apology! At least they're alive & can be with what remains of their families!

What pisses me the eff off is the fact that Alphys & Sans tortured & extracted the Determination from the literal souls of human children repeatedly & no one ever acknowledges it.

Add to the fact that it is confirmed that these souls have some degree of consciousness after death (as seen in the Flowey fight) & that paints a nasty fucking picture for the monsters' characters. Alphys & Sans specifically.

Yet, despite all this, the only thing Alphys apologizes for is hurting her fellow monsters, not for torturing the souls of children.

There's also the fact that the story of the Human-Monster War just does NOT make sense when you have all the information.

They would have us believe that their imprisonment was undeserved & that the humans just suddenly attacked for no reason. That humans are so much stronger & more durable than monsters (despite them all having magic & some even being able to supplex literal boulders).

At the same time, they say that the humans attacked fearing monster's ability to absorb human souls.

The question that bares answering is: How did either species learn that such an ability is possible if no monster had ever taken a human soul before?

You don't just wake up & say to yourself "I can absorb souls" & it turns out you're correct!

How do monsters know that this is possible if it'd never been done before??

Unless it had been done before & was, in fact, being done so often that it was well-known amongst humans. Which would mean that those humans' fears were entirely rational & warranted.

Not only that, but we also know that if a monster absorbs 7, then they gain godlike power. Which is confirmed. So, this means that monsters are also fully capable of becoming serial killers.

Made of love & compassion my left asscheek.

Hell, the fact that the monster race was IMPRISONED rather that systematically killed is actually VERY telling.

If the humans in-game were as evil & merciless as the monsters portrayed them as being, then there would BE no monsters left to argue about it because humanity would've executed them all upon winning the war.

Think about it; if you were evil & merciless & just won a war with someone who had the power to take your soul & use it to become powerful, WHY would you waste time & energy creating a giant magical prison to keep them in instead of just KILLING them? Unless, you don't plan on them being in there forever?

After all, many criminals are kept in prison until they either live out their sentence or learn to be a healthy member of society.

In fact, why are humans even able to enter the Barrier at all unless there's a specific reason, a specific outcome, that the mages wanted to occur? Like, for instance, what if the humans don't NEED to be dead? What if humanity expected the monsters to befriend 7 humans who would then all ban together to break the Barrier of their own accord?

In fact, why did the monsters just assume that the humans had to die in order to break the Barrier? We never really get a reason as to why.

What if the point was to prove that humans & monsters can live together in peace?

If anything, it's the monsters who are portrayed as genocidal for immediately jumping to violence in order to open the Barrier. "Destroy all humans" anyone?

I mean, why didn't they try imprisoning the humans first?

Random Stuff Masterlist

[skullzanta]

Midnight Rant about Undertale's real Problem

It annoys me how visciously people try to, and fight against backseating in Undertale for one reason: while backseating DOES ruin quite a few suprises, the game is designed in a way to encourage Backseating. Why? The ONLY way to get the "Pacifist Ending" is to literally play perfect Start-To-Finish. ANY Mistake that remains ruins the run. Kill ONE Froggit? ONE enemy? Your entire run is pointless if you want the Arguably Best designed and True Ending of the game. You don't kill every single enemy? You are completely spared of consequences. The game is TOO Binary in a sense that you need either purity or you get neutral.

Now, I understand wanting purity for the sake of the ending, but Deltarune avoids this issue entirely by not only having a tutorial(And a thorough one as much as needed too), and forgiving your sins of Chapter 1 Twice(Susie vs C. Round and Chapter 2's Intro). That is a good thing(Albeit Idk if I agree with the Chapter 2 Intro's forgiveness being so total) But it makes clear the objective, this is a marked improvement. In Undertale Undyne calls you a serial killer for killing a froggit she could not have known about under almost any circumstances.

You see a player kill one enemy, and not reset because they don't know how binary the system is, play the entire game, and then arbitrarily have to re-play the whole game just because of a mechanic of overt purity thats never explained til you reach the end of the game. There IS value to killing toriel as some videos have pointed out as a natural lesson... But that is something that nobody knows to even think of as a relevancy.. Yes there are realistic consequences but theres also killing a froggit once in the ruins before figuring out how the game works and having a doomed run. If you just play neutral and want that, sure, fine. But the fact it has 0 forgiveness mechanics, 0 explanation or hints, 0 ways to comprehend the issue... That I believe is a HUUUGE Flaw with Undertale.

Backseating ruins things like killing toriel, plot twists, unique things to find out and more importantly there are revelations like EXP and LOVE. Albeit theres some that are so obscure you have to backseat enough to atleast hint to trying something somewhere(Arguably, that is. It is completely fair if you disagree) but also the sheer extreme excess of how pure you need to be in a run is problematic too in a way that makes people want to not have a streamer/youtuber dislike the game because of one tiny mistake that easily could ruin the entire experience by forcing them to re-play the whole game for a single ending.

[sera8273]

Muffet from Undertale is simply not talked about enough and it’s bugging me. I’m not talking about the love and praise she gets I’m talking about how fucked up she is.

Now, for context, Muffet is this Anthropomorphic Spider monster Miniboss who is apparently the leader of spiders. She loves spiders and Spider lovers but hates -Absolutely fucking hates- monsters who aren’t spiders themselves.

She also runs a bake sale for a fundraising event to get enough money to save the spiders in the Underground which is sweet in itself. But like. The bake sale, ironically enough, sells spiders baked goodies!

Im not kidding! The Advertisement for said bake sale is literary and I quote: “Come eat food made by spiders, for spiders, of spiders!”

What this means is that these spiders kill other spiders, baked them, eats them, and sell them to other monsters to raise enough money to save spiders…

Muffet is a fucking cannibal and promotes it and it’s not mentioned enough!!!

Because it’s like for the spiders and that they’re most likely willing to do this, I can -I guess- let this slide

But I’m not about to casually slide under the rug that Muffet, because of her pride, led the entirety of Hotlands in the GENOCIDE route into a fucking massacre.

If you actually give time to listen to Muffets dialogue when fighting her in the GENOCIDE run. She talks about how Alphys tried to warn her to evacuate the other monsters in Hotlands, saying that when Muffet escaped, she would block off the rest of Hotlands. But because of her pride, Muffet calls Alphys a “Stupid Nerd” and says how “A spider NEVER leaves her web~”

She doesn’t even regret being the main source of killing all the monsters in Hotlands itself! The only thing that Muffet truly regretted was how she didn’t tie up Alphys and made her into a juicy donut.

Hell- the only reason that she’s fighting you is that she thinks that you hate spiders! But when the telegram from the spider reveals how the player didn’t actually hurt spiders she lets you free and says how this was all a big misunderstanding!!

She gives no shits about those who aren’t spiders and made it clear multiple times! She would rather cook them up and serve them as a treat than be seen helping them! She doesn’t care that she’s the cause of those monsters death in Hotlands or how the player is a fucking serial killer. She only cares about her fucking spiders to the point she’s willing to let you go with no hesitation what so ever!

Muffet is one fucked up character that doesn’t get enough attention.

[islaluvsbones]

hahaha this post pissed me off (probably controversial rant under the cut)

"exactly like dont interact with it then" I CANT. BECAUSE NOBODY TAGS THEIR SHIT PROPERLY. i can't find NORMAL ANYTHING anymore on ao3 because its all flooded with sans au ensembles and shit. and nobody tags them as "alternate universe: _____" so, its actually quite IMPOSSIBLE to avoid.

yeah there are some aus i like, but notice how they aren't the ones that only focus on sans??!! i have to search through a sea of garbage sansxsans au stuff to actually find fics and comics about undertale.

"without aus the game wouldn't last 2 years" CRAZY TAKE. you guys are so blinded by all this mischaracterized single focused TRASH that you cant possibly understand how much of a timeless work undertale is. the lore and secrets are so rich, and there are sooo many great characters to focus on. i am a 7 year long fan of undertale and my love for it has grown stronger over time, without the help of aus. did i dabble in some? yes, and i still do (rarely.) but god, don't you ever get bored??? this is literally the same guy interacting with HIMSELF in DIFFERENT CLOTHES. if ur gonna make au stuff, please spice up your aus/au fics with other UT characters i beg you.

and YEAH. i do believe aus ruined the fandom to an extent. that corner of the fandom is where controversy and problems are BORN. ive lost so many of my fave fic writers/comic makers to aus because they turned into proshippers and stopped writing actually good stuff. how are you gonna swap out a ship between 2 entirely different characters with good chemistry for a sans x sans ship thats INSANE to me. and the mischaracterization from the au fandom drives me absolutely wild.

it makes me so sad to see new fans only knowing the new sans au stuff or poorly plotted undertale things instead of some of the classic masterpieces i grew up with. sometimes i watch those undertale reaction gacha videos and get SOOO sad and disappointed when they only react to aus and weird fangames/bad comics that are so inaccurate it hurts.

i wanna guide them in the right direction to some actually good stuff so they realize how great the game is completely ON IT'S OWN. can barely find good content anywhere anymore. i wish i was a little older when undertale came out so i could fully experience it in its prime days. i love undertale but being younger made me late to the party. i still saw most of the classic stuff early on tho so yesss! (got into the fandom in early 2017 and that story is hilarious)

anyway enough talk about me lol.

i could talk about this for hours but this post is getting long and my fingers are getting tired. sorry for my ritual essay long rant that most likely no one will see, but sometimes u gotta have ur hot takes and yell about them even if nobody's listening. thanks, have a very undertale day!

[princeyralsei]

Anyway

[sunnymainecoonx]

No context :]

[night-city-netrunner]

Undertale is two years short of a decade old. It's simply not a relevant game anymore.

So can SOMEONE please explain why, in the year of our lord (Ghirahim) 2023, this game still hurts me so???

[bread-that-draws]

Flowey’s so funny and has me so fucked up like he’s a talking flower. He tries to kill you upon your first interaction. He is ten years old. He is damaged beyond repair. He’s a flower named Flowey. He’s become friends with every single character. He’s killed all of them countless times. He knows everything about everyone. He doesn’t care anymore. He takes care of his mom when she can’t take care of herself. He’s killed her before. He doesn’t care if you kill her. He thinks she’s trying to replace him. He just wants to be himself again. He wants to destroy everything. He hates you. You’re the only one who understands him. He wants his best friend back. He’s terrified of them. He believes in kill or be killed because he died by giving mercy to the wrong person. He believes himself to be the wrong person. He doesn’t understand when you show him that kindness he showed others, even when you know he could kill you for it. He’s tried every route. He asks you if you have anything better to do when you try to do the same. He’s a direct reflection of the player. He’s a fucking talking flower named flowey and his only voice line is by Ronald McDonald and his officially licensed plush does a little dance for you

[fl00mie]

istg it hurts to be an ink lover/fan/enjoyer in the eyes of those outside the fandom

ink might seem like an op sans for no reason at first impression and i can understand why people think that.. he travels through universes, he's the only character in his world (the one who's known as the most overrated character in the game which makes it even more repellent, i guess), among other reasons

i haven't seen almost any direct hate towards him (referring to canon, the genuine hate i've seen so far has been based on underverse, that although it's quite likely his image has been tarnished by the series, i want to refer more to those who aren't familiar with AUs in general) but, since i returned to this community i notice how he's not referred to as a fan favorite (anymore?), at least in the popular videos i find on youtube and on twitter it's even worse, i've seen them call him overrated multiple times

it's the fact that i manage to empathize a lot with him that makes me feel.. a bit sad maybe? because he's more than just another meaningless sans, his story and personality are really good and the fact that he's a sans is just a preference of his creator, that may have aged poorly but it doesn't take away how good and complex the character still is

[lovethespoiler]

"reaper sans is a confident flirty pervert whose only personality traits are being gay and simping for geno looll"

okay cool but did you know that when he was one of the newly created death gods he hesitated to reap chara when they were murdered because of the compassion he felt for their determination to live which ended up causing the reaping to fail and cursing chara to be corrupted forever and he will never stop blaming himself for what he did ? that he no longer hesitates to reap souls or seems to have mercy when he does so even if he feels terrible about it because of the heavy amount of guilt he feels every day ? that chara is the bane of his existence because they are a visual reminder of his mistake ?

did you know he views life and living as something negative for the reason that when people are alive they have to feel pain ? and he used to despise life because he had to see how people were suffering from simply being alive when he was doing his job ?

did you know he hates his job and just wants to be himself in peace but he can't because reaping is what he was created to do ? that every single thing i listed above are just a few examples of his chronic depression and nihilism that shape how he views the world ? I CAN KEEP GOING !!

[crow-n-tell]

HEAR ME OUT HEAR ME OUT

[undertalebabbleblog]

Was there every any hope for Dream and Nightmare?

Could they have stayed in their universe, stayed together, stayed happy?

Maybe. But somehow, I can't see it, at least not after the village comes into the picture. They might have been able to stay in their own little bubble forever, but as soon as that outside force exists, the clock starts ticking.

It was Nightmare who couldn't take it anymore. But it could have easily been Dream. Either way, it was only a matter of time. I don't think there was any avoiding it, not really. Not in their situation, not with who they are.

Nightmare. The scapegoat, the dark one, the moon, the night. Tied to his brother by his very name, because even though he wasn't a nightmare, he's Dream's opposite, and that is all he was ever seen as by others. The dark to Dream's light, the negativity to Dream's positivity. Always defined by his brother, even before he was hurt for merely existing. Did he ever really get to be his own person?

And Dream, the golden one, the perfect one, the kind one, the sun. Always so helpful and positive. Always in demand, because who doesn't want to be happy? Their happiness is his responsibility. So he smiles, he helps, he conceals all the stress and sadness and anger and grief. He can't be seen with negative emotions, he can't effect others with his own feelings, he can't let his own feelings or needs or self matter when there's always other people who need him. So he keeps up that sunshine mask, keeps all the clouds and rain and storms locked in the dark where nobody can see them.

You can't maintain masks like that under enough built-up pressure. Eventually, something breaks.

Maybe they still had a chance. Broken things can heal, after all. Maybe they could have helped each other, grown, figured out a way to make things better.

Or maybe they were doomed from the start.

All I know is that if one didn't break, the other would have eventually.

[xlocalkatzx]

I’m so sorry I think I starved you guys for WAAAY too long ohmygod HEGLP!! I ran out of drawing ideas and motivation for the LOOONGEST TIMEE and only decided to draw recently…..,,, please take this as a incredibly sincere apology

do.. do I have to credit all the creators

Please don’t cancel me I CANT DO IT OHMYGOD PLEASE there’s too many of them and I’m so tired