#Toby Ziegler is Jewish

[writer-at-the-table]

Listen, I don't know if Aaron Sorkin knew enough Talmud for "You accidentally slept with a prostitute...I don't understand. Did you trip over something?" to have been a deliberate reference to "If a man fell from a roof and while falling was inserted into a woman due to the force of the fall"

But *Toby Ziegler* 100% definitely knows enough Talmud to assume that from a Watsonian or in-universe perspective, it pretty much has to be.

[gnnosis]

on brothers

[ jewish literacy, rabbi joseph telushkin / the bear 2x06 + 2x10 / east of eden, john steinbeck / succession 3x09 / “brothers,” kevin atwater / the west wing 6x16 / prison break 5x04 / greywaren, maggie stiefvater / boy (2010) / “he ain’t heavy, he’s my brother,” the hollies ]

[doyouknowthisjewishcharacter]

Do you know this Jewish character?

[lesbianmelkor]

toby ziegler going to temple first thing on saturday morning <3

[racefortheironthrone]

Why has the American comics industry been so adverse to unionization? I've been reading through the Comics Broke Me hashtag on Twitter and I've realized how difficult it's been to even get meager compensation for work that provides the backbone for billion dollar smash hits.

I would highly recommend Abraham Josephine Riesman's biography of Stan Lee, True Believer, both as an excellent portrait of the man himself and how his industry changed across the decades. (Bell and Vassallo's Secret History of Marvel is also quite good on the early history of the company.)

When the comics industry emerged out of the pulp and magazine industry in the 30s, it was not the "backbone for billion dollar smash hits" that it is today - it was a low-rent, fly-by-night industry that was associated with pornography and organized crime. Notably, it was also an low-cost industry that sold a very cheap product (the original 10-cent comic was about $1.80 in today's money) to children. More on this in a bit.

Even when it suddenly experienced a sudden increase in popularity with Action Comics #1, everyone in the industry thought that it was a passing fad that would be temporary - and so there was less resistance to the work-for-hire system that bosses like Martin Goodman used to keep their costs down. Not no resistance - as Riesman notes, Jack Kirby and Joe Simon got pissed when Goodman started stiffing them on the profit-sharing from Captain America, so they started moonlighting at D.C, Stan Lee found out and snitched on them to his cousin-in-law/boss, and that led to them getting fired - but less.

However, there was another reason why it was hard to start a union in the comics industry, which is that a lot of comics creators were vaguely ashamed or embarrasse to be associated with it. Even before Wertham and the moral panic of the 1950s, comics were (as I've noted above) seen as a bit scuzzy, a form of disposable crass commercial entertainment aimed at an undiscerning audience of children, and certainly not respectable Real Art. While they were trying for their big break into the more prestigious worlds of fine art or literary fiction, writers and artists viewed their work in the comics industry as a day job that was best kept a bit under wraps - hence why Stanley Lieber only used the nom-de-plume Stan Lee for the comics, because he wanted to keep his then-real name for the career in novel-writing that he wanted to have.

Moreover, there was a particular ethnic angle to this distancing. As I've written a bit about before, there was a tendency among Jewish creators of this generation to keep Judaism subtextual and to change their names to keep their own Judaism subtextual - hence Stanley Lieber taking on a more gentile-sounding name, hence even a proud and pugnacious Jewish man like Jacob Kurtzberg choosing to go by Jack Kirby. Partly, this was done as a means of achieving economic opportunity in a society that wasn't exactly welcoming to creators with Jewish surnames. (Hence the line in the West Wing about Toby Ziegler going by Toby Ritchie when he worked as a telemarketer.) This is another reason why these Jewish creators were working in comics in the first place, because the "Mad Men" who ran the advertizing industry wouldn't hire them.

But partly it was done to avoid becoming a shanda fur die goyim - a Yiddish expression that means "a shame in front of the gentiles" - by associating the Jewish community with a (heavily Jewish) industry that was viewed as little more elevated than the schmatta trade in comparison to the prestigious world of art and literature. It's an old story - literally, it's the plot of The Jazz Singer, the first talkie about a Jewish entertainer (in blackface, unfortunately) and his conflict and eventual reconciliation with his more traditional family.

After comics went through its first big boom in WWII and then survived the crash in the 50s and saw the second big boom in the 60s, a lot of creators realized that the handshake work-for-hire deals that they had started with had screwed them out of a lot of money. This started some very high profile long-running lawsuits, as first Siegel and Shuster and later Kirby and Ditko sought to get a portion of the rights to the characters they had created. (Some of these lawsuits settled only a few days ago, and some are still ongoing.)

As Riesman explains, the Copyright Act of 1976 created an opening for comics creators by requiring that there be a written agreement between a work-for-hire creator and their employer establishing the transfer of copyright. This created an existential crisis for the Big Two comics companies, and the new Marvel Editor-in-Chief Jim Shooter immediately tried to get his creators to sign one-page contracts transferring their rights. Hotshot artist Neal Adams urged creators to not sign the contract and invited them to a meeting at his place to discuss forming a union. Shooter retaliated by threatening to black ball anyone who joined Adams' organization - and this blatant violation of U.S labor law cowed comics creators into signing the contracts and signing away their rights and the drive to unionize comics died the same way a lot of union drives die.

Things have gotten a bit better in recent decades - the 90s comics boom and the departure of the Image guys improved the situation for creators' rights somewhat due to competitive pressure, but there are still significant problems when it comes to comics creators' access to health care, pensions, and other benefits. There have been some recent union wins - the Comic Book Workers United organized Image Comics - but these tend to be unions of staff workers rather than creators. There is the Cartoonists' Co-op, which is looking to move in the direction of acting like a union but is a very nascent organization that's a long way away from that yet. And it remains galling that the most that creators see from the billions made by Disney and Warner Brothers Discovery are $5,000 checks dispensed to keep them quiet.

It's not going to get better until writers and artists unionize.

[nicejewishcharactershowdown]

and your contestants for NJCS 2024 are...

Pick your favorites and start your campaigning, because the showdown starts in two weeks!

Check below the 'read more' for a competitor list, and remember: the 'Nice' in Nice Jewish Character is about the quality of the representation, not their personality!

Disclaimer: It's really hard to find a positive, joy filled Jewish space on the internet right now. In order to preserve that peace, anyone engaging in this tournament in bad faith or with malicious intent will be blocked.

Nice Jewish Character Showdown 2024 Round One Contestants, in alphabetical order, are:

Alec Hardison

Barney Guttman

Betty Boop

Bugs Bunny

Columbo

Coraline Jones

Davey Jacobs

Dina

Ella of Frell

Fox Mulder

Grace Adler

Grover

Han Solo

James Wilson

Lambchop

Lexi Howard

Libby Stein-Torres

Natasha Vulvokov

Otacon

Paris Geller

Percy Jackson

Philip J. Fry

Professor Hershel Layton

Richie Lipschitz

Seymour Krelborn

Sharpay Evans

Sid

Sidney Prescott

The Baudelaires

Toby Ziegler

Willow Rosenberg

Yasmin

[thebreakfastgenie]

Toby Ziegler for the character ask :)

How I feel about this character

Toby is one of the most complex characters I've ever seen. Some people would call him cynical but I think that's a mistake, I think that's how he looks on the surface, but isn't true underneath. I think he's the most idealistic character on the show, but he's constantly disappointed because the world and his fellow humans don't live up to his expectations. He never stops believing they can be better, and they're never as good as he believes they can be, and it makes him depressed. He's one of the best Jewish characters I've ever seen.

All the people I ship romantically with this character

Andi

Poet Laureate Tabitha (more just a short term fling they both remember fondly)

My non-romantic OTP for this character

Toby and Josh is number one in my heart always and forever. Also Toby and Sam and Toby and CJ.

My unpopular opinion about this character

I think this is the opposite of unpopular but he would never betray Bartlet and he's OOC in season 7. He's also OOC in season 5, he would not be a deadbeat dad. Beyond that, Toby/CJ is an absolute no-go for me.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon.

Not having Josh be the one who drops everything when he finds out Toby's brother died is the worst writing decision ever but that's as much about Josh as it is about Toby so let's see... I would have liked to see Toby and Andi work out a non-traditional co-parenting plan that worked for them and was happy and angst-free. I think they should have lived in one house in different rooms personally but I'm open to anything. I think it would be a great thing to show and a way to learn a lot about Toby.

[thejewishguyscompetiton]

The Jewish Guys of All Time!

It's time to meet the competitors, as they have been selected! Polls probably won't be up till after next week as I have finals next week. Reminder that the competitors were selected based on nominations and they can be canonical, headcanon, or coded! Only 2-3 at most from a source and I decided to take some lesser known or talked about ones in the nominations! So now that thats all out of the way!!!

If you have any propaganda for this competition please tag this blog in it and/or use the tag #jewishguyscomp2023

Welcome the contestants!

Barney Guttman (Dead End Paranormal Park)

Cecil Gershwin Palmer (Welcome to Nightvale)

Peter B. Parker (Spiderverse)

Spock (Star Trek)

Moon Knight (Marvel)

Magneto (Marvel)

Benjamin Grimm (Marvel)

Billy Kaplan (Marvel)

Adam Birkholz (Omg Check Please!)

Alter Rosen (The City Beautiful)

Annie Edison (Community)

Isabella Garcia-Shapiro (Phineas and Ferb)

Grunkle Stan (Gravity Falls)

Jake Peralta (Brooklyn 99)

Kronk (The Emperor's New Groove)

Launchpad (Ducktales 2017)

Ragman (Rory Regan) (DC)

Nati (Srugim)

Nadia Vulvokov (Russian Doll)

Yanki (HaSodot)

Avram (The Frisco Kid)

Herschel (Wholly Moses)

Adam F. Goldberg (The Goldbergs)

Coyote Bergstein (Grace and Frankie)

Walter Sobchak (The Big Lebowski)

Eli Moskovitz (Cobra Kai)

Nick Ganz (Mighty Ducks Game Changers)

Worf (Star Trek)

Artie Nielsen (Warehouse 13)

Booster Gold (DC)

 Brucie Kibbutz (Grand Theft Auto IV)

 Buddy Sorrell (The Dick Van Dyke Show)

 The Baudelaires (ASOUE)

Lemony Snicket (ASOUE)

 Mabel and Dipper (Gravity Falls)

Harley Quinn (DC)

Jeremy Heere (Be More Chill)

Tegan Jovanka (Doctor Who)

Muscle Man (Regular Show)

 Schmidt (New Girl)

 Michael Moscowitz (Princess Diaries)

Spike Spiegel (Cowboy Bebop)

 Sonic the Hedgehog (The Sonic Movie)

 Toby Ziegler (The West Wing)

 TK Strand (911 Lone Star)

 Scanlan Shorthalt (Critical Role)

 Patsy (Spamalot)

 Nathaniel Kurtzberg (Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug and Chat Noir)

 Miriam Maisel (The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel)

  Mendel Weisenbachfeld (Falsettos)

 KJ (Paper Girls)

 Libby Stein-Torres (The Ghost and Molly Mcgee)

 Noah Puckerman (Glee)

 Motl (Fiddler on the Roof)

 Otacon (Metal Gear Solid)

 Mabel Rose (Diviners)

 Isidore Latham (Chicago Med)

 Fran Fine (The Nanny)

Jerry Seinfeld (Seinfeld) 

Greg Focker (Meet the Parents)

Davey Jacobs (Newsies)

 Dr. Alan Strauss (The Patient)

Tevye (Fiddler on the Roof)

Little Ash (When the Angels Left the Old Country)

ROUND ONE MASTERPOST

ROUND TWO MASTERPOST

[indigostars]

the fact that toby ziegler and josh lyman are jewish means so much to me actually

[malkaleh]

20 questions for fic writers

Tagged by @emilykaldwen - love you friend.

01. how many works do you have on ao3? 236 (though this is over a lot of years - admittedly I’ve deleted some I just didn’t like anymore but also there is a lot of short fic)

02. what's your total ao3 word count? 366, 416

03. what fandoms do you write for? Currently: Tudors, Grishaverse (book and show), Tortall, West Wing, Hunger Games. But I have written for a lot of fandoms (some main past ones include Criminal Minds and Band of Brothers).

04. top five fics by kudos? I’ll add in if they are co-written or not after the fic because the ranking changes depending on if you count co-written or not.

Undertow (co-written) - Criminal Minds

It’s Not Because Of You (It’s Because Of Me) - Ted Lasso

Five Times Out Of Many David Rossi Realised He Was Happily Doomed - Criminal Minds

To Dwell In Enchantment - Criminal Minds

If I Could Go Back (co-written) - Criminal Minds

Four Times Penelope Hotchner Knew Her Fathers Loved Her - Criminal Minds (if you don’t count the co-written one(s))

What About Now - Criminal Minds (also if you don’t count cowritten)

05. do you respond to comments? I do my absolute best - I treasure every single kind comment I just…unfortunately spoons mean I’ve missed some sometimes but I’m getting better.

06. what is the fic you wrote with the angstiest ending? It’s either the Criminal Minds one in which I basically killed Everyone or the Toby Ziegler/Jason Gideon apocalypse fic or the Spooks apocalypse fic. I actually think all three of them do have hope - though just, not for the POV characters in the second and third ones. So probably the second.

07. what's the fic you wrote with the happiest ending?

08. do you get hate on fic? I have yes.

09. do you write smut? I do. It’s complicated but like, I do.

10. craziest cross over? Listen I once crossed over Band of Brothers, Generation Kill, Doctor Who, The West Wing, Good Omens and I think like Sherlock Holmes. I have written Tudors-West Wing-Law and Order UK-Pundits multiverse. I will absolutely write a ridiculous crossover.

11. have you ever had a fic stolen? Not as far as I know.

12. have you ever had a fic translated? Also not as far as a I know (I have this memory that one of them might have been but that could well be wrong).

13. have you ever co-written a fic before? Yes several times. Delightful people and experiences.

14. all time favorite ship? Okay I don’t actually read fic for them as such but in terms of canon it’s Faramir/Eowyn and Beren/Luthien. FORMATIVE. All the Grishaverse canon ships. Jon/Thayet.

15. what's a WIP you want to finish but doubt you ever will? Into The Fire or The Tudors + Scarlet Pimpernel verse. Because I know how it goes and it goes Fucking Dark before the end and honestly not everyone is making it out and I do not want to be in the head of the character I’d have to be in to write it as it should be (for that length of time and for that amount of torture).

16. what are your writing strengths? I think world building. I don’t know, I really struggle with articulating my strengths but maybe that.

17. what are your writing weaknesses? DIALOGUE. Actual confidence.

18. thoughts on dialogue in another language? I’d want to be more fluent before I did but maybe one day I will have a fic with some Hebrew/Farsi.

19. first fandom you wrote in? The Bill (long running English police procedural) in terms of posted fic. In terms of the first fandom I could be said to have written in I think I may have written a bunch of Scarlet Pimpernel fic in my head.

20. favorite fic you've written? Okay Jewish Anne Boleyn in terms of finished work. I was so so scared to post it. That I wasn’t Jewish/Mizrahi/Biracial enough. That I hadn’t researched enough that I hadn’t written it right but I posted it. I feel a lot of that with the OT3 verse right now.

Tagging (if you want): @claudiajcregg @onekisstotakewithme @herawell @elysabeththequeene

[twwpress]

Weekly Press Briefing #60: August 13th - 19th

Welcome back to the Weekly Press Briefing, where we bring you highlights from The West Wing fandom each week, including new fics, ongoing challenges, and more! This briefing covers all things posted from August 13 - August 19, 2023! Did we miss something? Let us know; you can find our contact info at the bottom of this briefing! 

Challenges/Prompts:

The following is a roundup of open challenges/prompts. Do you have a challenge or event you’d like us to promote? Be sure to get in touch with us! Contact info is at the bottom of this briefing.

@callixton is hosting The West Wing Pride Week (@twwpride here on tumblr) September 17 - 23. More details here! 

Photos/Videos:

Here’s what was posted from August 13 - 19. 

Bradley Whitford posted a promo for Peter Pan Goes Wrong at the Ahmanson Theatre in LA, where he is joining the cast from August 9 - 27. 

Josh Malina posted a change of venue for The West Wing picket event on August 22 so it can occur along with the AFL-CIO Day of Solidarity. 

Josh Malina posted a video of himself trolling his Alexa. 

Marlee Matlin posted a video of herself outside of the building where she was diagnosed as Deaf at 18 months. 

Marlee Matlin posted a video and a silly photo of herself getting her hair done in Chicago. 

Mary McCormack posted a video in which she gently roasts her daughter Margaret for what she is packing to bring to college in Connecticut. 

Peter James Smith posted about The West Wing picket event change of venue, a reading he was in, and photos from the picket. 

Donna Moss Daily: August 13 | August 14 | August 15 | August 16 | August 17 | August 18 | August 19

Daily Josh Lyman: August 13 | August 14 | August 15 | August 16 | August 17 | August 18 | August 19

No Context BWhit: August 13 | August 15 | August 16 | August 17 | August 18 | August 19

@twwarchive: August 13 | August 14 | August 15 | August 16 | August 17 | August 18 | August 19

Edits/Artwork:

#DONNAMOSS: holds the tag in her hand, trying not to show that it’s the first piece of jewelry anyone’s ever given her by @ainsleyhcyes [VIDEO EDIT] #HELENSANTOS: “Thought you liked it when I got loud?” by @kennysroys [VIDEO EDIT] #CJTOBY: and when the seasons change by @cjcreggswifey [VIDEO EDIT]

Editors’ Choice: 

This week, we’d like to share some of our favorite fics under 5000 words! Be sure to tell us any favorites of yours, too!

like love in a drunken sky by thotsandfeelings | Rated M | Josh Lyman/Donna Moss | Complete | “I’ve never liked rainy days.”

la banlieue by fiery_one_18 | Rated T | Zoey Bartlet/Charlie Young  | Complete | When all is said and done, Zoey still wants to go to France. She knows it sounds crazy, but she does. And how lucky is she that the only person who she feels comfortable getting drunk in front of and confessing that to promises to accompany her in ten years when they’ve both hopefully paid off some of their student loans? … Or, Zoey and Charlie make a pact under the influence of red wine and Elle Woods and stick to it

their voices still by altschmerzes | Rated T | Josh Lyman & Toby Ziegler (Gen Fic) | Complete | Toby takes Josh to synagogue, and together they say the Mourner's Kaddish for Leo. "Because that's what Jewish sons do when their fathers die. Even if that father happened to be a Catholic." (ktavnukkah, day 4, "mourning")

Doctor's Orders by ETraytin | Rated T | No Pairings Listed (Gen Fic) | Complete | A week after Opposition Research, Abbey Bartlet shows up at Santos for President HQ, looking for a certain troublemaker.

Big Trouble in Little China by fictorium | Rated T | C J Cregg/Kate Harper | Complete | It's been a long few days, and CJ could use a little comfort.

Stay tuned for this week's fic list, which we'll be reblogging onto this post right away!

[babka-enjoyer]

Toby Ziegler Jewish Head Canons:

Toby’s least favorite holiday is Sukkot

[hoffmans-hoffman]

Jackson Pax

Name: Jackson Kenneth Pax

Nickname: Jacky K(Josh), Jack(A lot), Pax/Pus(Danny), Son/Kid/Boy(Jed/Abby)

Gender: Male, He/Him/His

Status: Deceased

Occupation: Josh's Boss in a technical way, The under Counselor To The President (Basically Leo's bitch lmao)

Adopted Family: Jules Ziegler(Father), unnamed mother(Deceased), Dr David Ziegler(Older Brother, Deceased), Tobias Ziegler(Older Brother), Two unnamed sisters(younger) Molly and Huck(Niece and Nephew)

First appearance: Pilot

Last appearance: 20 Hours in America: Part I

-----------------------------------------------

Jackson Pax is the adopted younger brother to Toby Ziegler and much like Josh, President Jed Bartlett sees Jackson as a son. Jackson is 6'0 and has blonde hair and brownish blue eyes. He mostly wears dress shirts and pants but he rarely wears suit jackets.

His personality is very scattered, he can be described as caring, kind, understanding but also loud, snarky and quick to throw a comeback.

-----------------------------------------------

First major injury

Like most people who work in The West Wing people share a dislike for Jackson, in an annoyed walk a few Bartlett protestors knock the snot out of Jackson and this is one of a few times Jackson confirms he's a pacifist. His nose is broken making it a bit difficult for him to breathe.

Second major injury

Jackson's pacifist-ness makes him an easy target for injuries/attacks. During a tour of the white house he comes out of his office to say hi as he normally does. He is attacked and stabbed in the right ear...losing hearing in that ear for four months and gaining tinnitus.

Religion

Jackson was brought up as Jewish but has since become atheist, learning his biological mother was Catholic and carries her rosary. There are a few events that have made him go to a church and pray but for the most part he is an atheist.

Death

With everything seeming slowly building up Jackson goes for a walk out of the White House...he tries a few times to call Josh but gets no answer. As he is walking he is stopped by someone who attempts to mug him but once the person finds out who he is...he is killed.

Post death

Jackson's pallbearers are Toby Ziegler, Jules Ziegler, Josh Lyman, Sam Seaborn, Leo McGarry and Charlie Young. Jackson is buried in Lakeside Cemetery in Michigan as that is where Jackson's biological parents are buried.

Later after Jackson's death, it is found out that he had a weak immune system causing him almost dying during season one.

Huck has Jackson's name for a middle name

[writer-at-the-table]

One of the things I plan on paying closer attention to on this watch through of The West Wing is Josh and Toby's Judaism and the different ways their relationships to it are portrayed and inform their characters.

Neither of them are the usual Only Jewish at Christmas and for Very Special Episodes character type (hi, Willow Rosenberg, looking at you!).

They're written and portrayed as having very different relationships to Judaism, and coming from very different Jewish backgrounds (within American Ashkenazi Jewry, I mean), and their Jewishness affects their characters in different ways, but it's definitely a factor for both of them, and an important one. (Though you have to be looking for it, and know what you're looking at, more with Josh to see it. It's much more obvious with Toby).

[nicejewishcharactershowdown]

REMINDER -- NICE in Nice Jewish Character Showdown is not an evaluation of personality, but in quality of representation! Who do you see yourself in more?