#To be clear I do NOT ship s2 Caitvi

[alea-jottun]

As a S1 Caitvi casual enjoyer and S1 Jayvik shipper, S2 reminded me of why I usually DO NOT want my ships to become canon.

Also, the extreme arcane S2 defenders are annoying. It's fine if you liked S2, great for you, but it doesn't change the fact S2 couldn't follow the most basic writing principles and gave up on everything S1 stood for. (Side note, I don't think you realize how good you have it, with the criticism being contained in one tag : back in my days, media criticism was in the same tag as the media itself, so you were forced to see it even if you just wanted to casually enjoy fandom productions.)

Also, most people here (rightfully) complain about the treatment of Cait, Vi and Jinx, but I do not see many posts about how the writing fundamentally betrayed Mel, Jayce and Viktor too. Might post about it later.

Honestly at this point, I am not sure I like Arcane anymore. Thinking about it doesn't bring me the joy it used to.

[sandsoftide]

Haven’t seen enough people talking about why timebomb and specifically ekko also suffered from arcane s2 being bad. Spoilers and crit

I’ll say more in depth later when I have gone back and revisited it with a clearer head and let me make it entirely clear I LIKE timebomb in concept. Much like caitvi. Like I see the vision I just don’t like a lot of the creative choices

Ekko in s1 was a REVOLUTIONARY he built the firelights w his own two hands and was sort of a foil to jinx and silco, he hated them but he wasn’t going to roll over to piltover either. He wanted independence but not through exploitation. He was a leader and a caretaker and mature beyond his years bc he was forced to be. And he hates Jinx bc she reminds him of that trauma and he’s betrayed by what she became like there’s SO much there look at it

In s2 he goes “hm my tree is being weird” and then gets sucked into the timey wimey thing and disappears for a whole act and the firelights aren’t even MENTIONED (and ik he wasn’t a major character in s1 either but like, he was still important and relevant to the plot throughout bc of the firelights?)

Then he gets sucked into this au portal (cool concept and cool execution) and falls in love with powder or whatever. And she ISNT JINX. SHE IS NOT THE JINX WE KNOW BC JINX IN MAIN TIMELINE IS FULLY BUILT FROM HER EXPERIENCES AND TRAUMA AND MENTAL ILLNESS. Like what Jayce said to viktor that’s part of her whether it hurts her or not. Her trauma doesn’t define her but it’s a part of her! And then all of a sudden Ekko’s sad bc he misses jinx (who iirc last time he met they had the whole I hate you and I miss you talk and they fought and both thought the other dead or whatever?) and then he’s talking her off the ledge even though he has absolutely no reason to! Because he DOESNT KNOW HER he knows literally nothing she’s done since s1 finale!!! Even the “jinx as a symbol for revolution” stuff from act 1 that went nowhere he would know NOTHING ABOUT bc he basically immediately went to Jayce? And they never did the revolutionary jinx stuff that was implied w the flag waving either so there’s no connection there either

Like a full episode was spent developing timebomb and it was interesting but also contributed nothing bc that is not jinx. She just feels like a mpdg and he doesn’t feel like ekko bc he needs to be in love w her for the plot? So they do absolutely nothing interesting they could for timebomb and still make it the entirety of ekko’s plot while tossing out the firelights and the zaun v. Piltover plotline as a whole

i mean again its hard to say bc this is right. objectively. like the stuff w timebomb was objectively well written. i just feel like it doesnt give ekko the space to be his own character outside of the ship? my point isnt that the stuff was poorly written i actually enjoyed it a lot and i think they did a good job w it i just also feel like it does ekko a disservice to have that be his only plotline and how it doesnt feel like it connects to his character in s1

i feel similarly about other plots in s2, like mel's. like yes this is good stuff! i love seeing mel in the spotlight the black rose magic stuff is interesting in a vacuum but also its totally separate from the interesting thematic roles in s1 that dealt with AGAIN THE CLASS CONFLICT AND POLITICS and dropping that for something different feels. like its a disservice to the characters, i guess?

also by having the timebomb development take place primarily in an au with powder and NOT jinx we dont really get to see jinx's thoughts at all. it feels like a repeat of s1 where someone is trying to save POWDER and not jinx, they dont see her as who she is now but rather who she was or could have been. which couldve been interesting to explore but they clearly werent interested in that ANYWAYS

[messrsrarchives]

robyn i’m begging please tell me you’ve watched arcane and that you’re a caitlyn/caitvi defender i am tired of fighting alone 💔💔

I AM I AM I AM !!! and i get the dislike okay, i get the whole cop/marginalised community thing but so many of the people that are against caitvi just WATCHED arcane and didn't understand it, yk? i know the "we need more complex female characters" crowd HATEEEE to see a complex female character coming (but of course, prefacing this by saying you can like/dislike whatever characters you want ! the same way cait/caitvi enjoyers should be able to without being called facists)

first of all, mirror of jinx. if you hate cait, hate jinx too. and i know it's different because of their classes but that's the POINT. that's the whole point, they're all just people and they both lose someone important to them and are subsequently manipulated. and look, cait's morals are dicey okay - that's what makes a good character, and i mean good in terms of interesting not as a pinnacle of moral righteousness - but she is fundamentally good.

i think the big thing with caitvi, is a lot of their conversations are non-verbal and we don't actually see them discuss any of it. would i have liked to have seen it? yes. do i get that it happens without seeing it? also yes, that's what the whole end scene is. "are you still in this fight, violet?" - we've only just begun, the war is over but we have a lot to talk about and so much untangle and i need to know if there's a chance for forgiveness because i know i've done awful things. "i'm the dirt under your nails, cupcake. nothing's gonna clean me out." - i know. i know we have a lot to talk about, i know there's awful things we have to clear up, but this is me reassuring you that i'm not going anywhere, and i'm still in this fight.

and then the prison scene?! cait is so blinded by hatred and we see that, we see a complete difference between s1 cait and s2 cait and that's the POINT!!!! i'm adding a photo below of a something that's been in my drafts for ages (unedited so not very coherent) but !!! it's the whole point 😖 that prison scene is a return to the cait we know, to actual cait who isn't being manipulated and finally understands that her grief is being monopolised (there were many signs throughout that she was against this and had been manipulated, but this is The Big Revelation scene) - AND SHE APOLOGISES HERE TOO! the slow reach out to the wound, letting vi take control, stopping to be honest about maddie? the entire interaction with jinx?? "hating you, i've hated myself" - againnnn, none of this excuses her actions but it shows she isn't the big villain everyone wants her to be.

and vi forgives her.

and we joke a lot about "one cupcake and she deflects" in the mongoose/oil slick scene (lmao) but it's so much more than that. it's so much more than just liking vi, because vi is the first person she meets that shows her she doesn't have to be like her family, that the world is bigger than being head of the house, and that people contain multitudes - of courseee that reconnection is going to cause a shift, because she never truly believed in it anyway, and the physical reminder that she has a Choice has just come back into her life

and i think the most important thing is actually explicitly said: "No amount of good deeds can undo our crimes."

she's aware. she's so aware of what she's done, she becomes aware of why she did it, and whilst that doesn't excuse any of it, she explicitly acknowledges that it doesn't !! and she opens up the door in that last scene for the conversations that need to be had.

so do i think she's perfect? no. do i think any of this excuses her actions? no. do i think she's a raging facist that contributes to poor wlw rep and anyone who likes the ship should be bashed over the head with a rock? also no.

i think she's a character that contains multitudes, is an incredible example of how the human spirit and morality is not built for war, we weren't meant for this weighing of lives, and i think her character arc is so important for class consciousness and social change - we need those at the top that are more empathetic to see our struggles, and we need them to unlearn their prejudices which are embedded into them by the very same systems that oppress us. which feels pertinent today with all the eat the rich discussions and people saying luigi isn't some hero, he's the rich we need to eat - class is so much more complicated than that.

so,,, yes ! caitvi defender and a cait defender because i understand that liking a character does not equate to liking all their actions, and that morality is never going to be as black and white as we were taught to believe in disney films. humans are messy, humans are complicated and will never be easily-categorisable into good or bad, and i think that love is not always perfect, but it persists anyway and that's rather lovely for caitvi.

i think it's incredible character design, incredible relationship design, and the show asks so many questions about morality and class divisions that aren't always easy to comprehend, and aren't always explicit. you have to dig for the details - the slightly shift in lighting, the dilating of a pupil, the slow reach out; it's all there, it just isn't obvious. and i'm rambling and looking too far into it now but we also only see vi through caitlyn's eyes a couple of times. we only get caitlyn's first-person pov a few times: shes's so closed off even to herself, it's going to be difficult to decipher her character and her morality when she isn't even allowing herself that dissection. and i think she doesn't allow that because she knows she'll dislike what she finds, she knows she is fundamentally against what she's doing, she just needed a reminder that life is bigger than her predetermined role (vi coming back - see here; one of the view cait povs we get is immediately after vi coming back, and them fooling ambessa) and she can infact make that choice.

so complex and so interesting.

ANYWAY! this has been a messrsrarchives ted talk, thank you for joining me here today and i leave you with my other rant about something i keep seeing on tiktok - unedited and messy oopsie.

[gntlets]

　　[ ON CANON DIVERGENCE AND SEASON 2. ]

i've been cooking up these thoughts for a while as i've meditated on where s2 left us, but conversations with @gettnup and @gambl4r only reinforced a few things for me regarding my portrayal of vi, so it's finally time to share with the world at large.

IN REGARDS TO THE ENFORCER OF IT ALL. at the end of the day, vi's always going to be toxically co-dependent and desperate specifically in relation to her sister; jinx ( ft. a special shoutout to my bully @j1hnxed <3 ) is her number one person, the most important thing to her, and that's never going to change regardless of ship or circumstance. she's all vi thought of and all that kept her going in as miserable and traumatizing a place as stillwater ( to the point where the guards essentially had to beat her to make her stop mentioning her ) and her main motivation throughout the entire show. their relationship is wildly important to vi, often at the cost of everyone else around her, and easily the most fascinating thing about the show for me personally, so that does reflect not only in my threads but also my portrayal.

of course caitlyn was also important to her ( pulled her free from her hell of seven years, saved her life, helped her when she had very few friends or allies to her name ) but vi wasn't just chasing tail by temporarily becoming an enforcer, she was trying to stop jinx and avenge what became of her beloved sister before she could hurt more people or tarnish powder's memory any further. it was all impulsively sought opportunity, something she should have considered more carefully before she trampled over everything she herself stands for; would have considered more carefully were it again not for being fresh out of a prison of almost a decade and experiencing trauma after trauma after trauma, the kind so brutal and expansive that it warrants its own post later on. the tl;dr is i don't believe vi is some blameless hero for anything she's done or the decisions she has made, nor do i think she's anywhere close to evil or malicious. she's a mess of complexities, she's a human being who loves her sister and who just can't seem to stop fucking up, and i eat it up.

but please dear god note that by act 2 and thereafter, vi's already permanently stripped herself of any enforcer identity; i don't fuck with any theories or canons that suggest otherwise. allying herself with her oppressors was a temporary mistake over and done with, and one that she's still working to make up for both for her loved ones and for herself. her own values, her own opinions, remain skeptical and cynical re: topsiders and everything that has to do with their politics. she isn't perfect, morally, and her defensive hard-headed temper has a rough time fully facing everything she's done as black and white wrong when it was all so driven by her sister, but she's also so simultaneously sick with guilt, with self-loathing about a few of her key choices anyway that she knows she needs to do ... something. vi is a character constantly at war with herself.

IN REGARDS TO CAITVI / VI'S FUTURE. can absolutely be ship or partner or verse dependent, but for my main and default verse, vi does not remain with caitlyn, much less in piltover, post-canon. when the dust clears and everything settles, the fact remains that vi absolutely hates it topside and certainly doesn't feel as though she belongs there. with or without jinx ( although act 3 does seem to imply that caitlyn realizes jinx is alive and thus more than likely does loop vi in on this knowledge ) vi won't and can't shake zaun. one identity crisis later and she's inevitably pulled right back home, to make amends, to work on herself, to recollect ... whether that means rebuilding what she's lost with @gettnup and the firelights, or going rogue for a while with borderline vigilante style intentions as she tries to clear the air with her people, or even finally find some common threads with @gambl4r. maybe they'll get drunk-married in the zaunite equivalent of vegas somewhere. who can say.

note that i also very much emphasize all of vi's lingering ptsd, anger issues, alcoholism, and other defining mental health issues ( further identified in the dossier in my pinned post ) for my portrayal; i loved the heaviness and intensity of her mental state in act 2, and don't agree that it could be so quickly cast aside like that peaceful moment at the end of act 3 seemed to want us to believe. vi is severely damaged, and i'll continue to write her that way.

regardless of her path, one thing is certain: she belongs to zaun, and that's always where she'll be.

[bittercandyapplez]

can i be clear

ok. i liked some aspects of s2, beautiful animation, my previous ship became canon, etc. but it felt so rushed! like they didn't know what to do after such a great first season, and so they just... rushed it. s2 was kind of... not great tbh. i still love arcane but why... was the ending so rushed, the caitvi so rushed (a kiss then an i hate you then suddenly a hi lets have sex and then a battle and afterwards theyre in love) ok???? can some of yall share ur thoughts

[crimsonxe]

Rewatching through Arcane full-series really is making my love for s2 only deepen, cause its clear how more confident & knowing the writers are about the characters. Don't get it wrong, this is by no means insulting s1 which is great; just acknowledging the subtle (or not so subtle) difference in feel to the characters. Spoilers below the cut:

Jinx isn't breaking down sobbing psychotically or floating in and out of psychotic breaks; instead in s2 she has mental issues & trauma clearly but its way more grounded and GOD do I want to give her a nice warm blanket in s2. She's more humanly fucked up. There's just something I can't put my finger on about her design in s1 vs. 2 where the latter comes across better or more human. I dunno if its the skin texture or something else, but its just a thing that's there that tickles my brain.

Vi is still a badass futch (I've seen it go back and forth between futch and butch so meh ymmv) that's clearly into Cait in s1 as well as tortured over her Jinx; but s2 adds a deeper layer of attraction & connection to Cait and because of how Jinx is handled also makes it way easier to understand her lengths of reaching out to Jinx. She's plenty locked into who she is but also has a lining of vulnerability and doubt as well that's hard to put to words. Also I love s1 Vi, but god s2's design does have an edge on uniqueness if only for that hair style that pops the fuck off.

Cait has more confidence/iron backing, more engagement with events directly, and way more open with her attraction to Vi & comfortability with relationships & sex. I love the purple & white stolen Zaunite outfit, but ponytail Cait from s2 and her tactical gear look are peak.

Caitvi/Violyn not teasing the water but full-on having moments where you see the attraction between the two not it being teased but like the air being thick with it. The fact that the writers had the confidence with it to actually have them separate, then come back together. Things like Ambessa directly stating how Vi has such an irreplaceable spot in Cait's heart, Vi's basically begging Cait not to change + stating how she's lost everyone + "I don't fucking care." to the Maddie bit (which I still stand by as one of the hottest damn parts in the love scene along with Cait's hand moving across Vi's back tattoo). Like I was never calling bait or taking issue at all cause the two did just meet in s1, but its clear to me the confidence level for s2 was higher leading to more blatant moments.

Ekko going from youthful freedom fighter to multiverse technology genius capable of creating a time looper machine.

Mel omfg my queen, I love that s2 has her shift from a more traditional femme styling that leans into manipulation, use of beauty, and elogant look to being more brazen, sliding towards badass, and gaining more of an ability to directly engage in combat with those she's against not try to manipulate them.

Hell I'm not even a huge shipper of them, but Mel and Jayce even get a better feeling dynamic in s2. I still don't particularly ship them, but I can see the appeal.

Even Sevika going from goon/henchwoman to more of an outspoken badass standing on her own name.

And I'm not even finished going through s1 yet (cause I'm in no rush). Its actually got me looking forward to future spinoffs even more cause they'll be carrying forward this confidence to them, especially if there's one following Mel an already established character that there's so much more room to expand on.

[miumiumandoodz]

somewhat related to the previous post but never once I rest my thoughts on why I can’t actually ship Jayce and Mel despite them being completely both my type and are the kind of characters I would enjoy shipping together. Like something just doesn’t snap to me. Now that I’ve seen the ending, I think it was also deliberate from the writers to not actually write them as a “shippable couple” in a sense. I bet the writers are smart enough to know their demographic.

Initially I just thought that Mel is so gorgeous, that even Jayce doesn’t deserve her. Later on, I realized that the two were just not portrayed to fall in love in a vulnerable way. Like, something crush them and they find pieces in each other kinda way. Take a look at CaitVi for example. They’re both trying to make sense the world around them and find pieces in each other — realizing that maybe they’re more similar that their differences make out to be, but when it comes to Jayce and Mel, nothing are sort of vulnerable out of the two to warrant that kind of connection and it makes it so hard for me to invest. Plot wise, this makes sense because initially we see that Mel only sees Jayce as an investment. Another trick on her sleeve. Something useful later. And he’s such an naive bottom puppy he’d say yes and played into her strings. And Jayce is… well. A naive bottom puppy. Who could blame him. A gorgeous girl is taking an interest on you, of course you’d say yes. But there’s nothing to it other than that. We see Mel gradually kinda let her guard down and catching feelings, but she’s still putting that facade and Jayce is too dumb to notice further other than “pretty girl likes me :3”

Only after Mel unlocks her black rose powers and Jayce got vomited out from the dystopian future they become kinda shippable to me because by that time, Mel is vulnerable. Jayce is vulnerable. There’s conflict. Jayce finally notices what he is to Mel initially and Mel tries to defend it was a wise choice to make. But it’s too late to even show her vulnerability to Jayce or to even prove whether or not she has feelings for him because 1.) war is at bay 2.) the story needs to wrap itself up 3.) Vik is Jayce’s endgame all along. But now I understand that apparently yeah — if they’re shippable, it’s in this kind of moment where there’s vulnerability and conflict, but by that moment, it’s way too late for me, as a viewer, to even wanna invest.

I feel like the ending is bittersweet in a way that Mel kinda sorts out her personal dilemma but loses a lot, including Jayce — not only because he sacrifices himself to undo what he has done but also, again, by the time she realizes that she might actually care about Jayce, it’s all too late. And it’s kinda sad knowing that Mel pushes that feelings down anyway because it’s clear where she thinks her duty lies. I do feel a bit sad for her. As a standalone character, I do feel like she is quite rounded up. I agree with the major opinion on some of the pacing in s2, especially her arc, but overall, I get it and I invest to her character all the way through even though I don’t invest to her early season romance with Jayce.

Anyway, this is by no means an attack to JayceMel. This is more of like a personal observation in how writers influence you as a viewer through storytelling and character relationships.

[ultfreakme]

I need to rant somewhere so might as well do it here. I don't like CaitVi after Season 2. I've tried to spin it into something I can work with because we do not get enough sapphic relationship rep but there is no way I can see the current canon version of CaitVi as anything good for each other.

Usually, I can see something in ships with people that are so opposite. But in CaitVi it feels like Vi is completely lost and consumed by Caitlyn's ideals in S2 that she isn't even her own person anymore and thematically I don't think Caitlyn offers Vi anything other than self-hatred and misery.

Sure, Vi has a roof over her head, a beautiful and luxurious place, and all the food and amenities she could want but what else? Is that it? Caitlyn destroyed her home, she wanted Jinx dead, she so easily turned to fascism and the best she could offer Vi was "I know." No "I know, I'm sorry". No "I know, I'll fix this". Nothing. And it's clear the writers don't see Vi as a person with her own motives but as some kind of prop for Caitlyn when Vi was basically the MC last season.

It makes sense for Vi to be depressed, to not care about the Plitover/Zaun conflict when she's lost everything and is only trying to survive but that shouldn't be the end of her story. This "barely hanging on" shouldn't her default state and her loving Caitlyn isn't enough to round her as a person when Caitlyn would shoot in her direction and hit her if push comes to shove.

Like even in toxic romances, both characters gain SOMETHING, twisted and awful as it is. But being with Cait has done nothing but strip Vi of anything that made her, her. She doesn't always need to be a fighter, she deserves a place to be soft and people are saying that's what Caitlyn is but their last conversation is Cait pulling her into another fight.

At least in S1, when Vi threw herself into a fight, she did it for herself. I think everyone's already seen that clip in S1 of Vi with powder, standing on a rooftop saying "They'll(Piltover) will respect us".

It's such a simple, basic wish; respect.

And then they never respect Vi for what she is. Not once. Even at the end it doesn't feel like Vi was allowed to mourn, to be herself, to just, breathe.

[kuwanxs]

Romeo and Juliet is actually very heavily critiqued for multiple reasons i don’t intend on delving into now.

But as for the second point, I believe Arcane had a very strong political premise that gave its viewers a very nuanced approach to oppression and masked subjugation. While i do believe that Vi was never an advocate for Zaun/undercity’s suffering, she was still a product of it. But their approach to Caitvi in season 1 was a lot more cautious than in s2. If you ask me why a person, who’s parents were killed by enforcers, who is a byproduct of the prolonged suffering undercity is put through, puts on an enforcers uniform, i would say the answer is pretty clear.

Vi’s character was never as radical as Jinx’s but she was still very grounded in her stance towards the undercity. Season 2 completely watered her down to becoming only a shell of this representation that she used to be. As for Caitlyn, there are clear explanations into her lack of certain morale when it comes to the undercity in the show itself. Do you think there is no symbolism between Silco being drowned in a polluted river while Caitlyn’s mother received a lavish, bejewelled casket?

Caitlyn is, in multiple ways, blinded by her own privilege that comes from being on an oppressor’s side, so for her to gas down Zaun using the very same ventilation system her mother built is the joke of the century. Don’t rebuke this by calling it a targeted strike, it does not do well for an Arcane fan to not acknowledge the political incorrectness of certain acts.

The infamous sex scene happening in the prison cell where Jinx was wrongly held, the same place where Vi was also wrongly imprisoned and kept for multiple years. Hm.

Caitvi was done in poor taste because it watered down Vi’s character. It also did a poor job at masking Cait’s evil by never shifting the perspective to show Vi’s stance on it. Again, i understand shipping them but at the end of the day, a show that had such political nuance to it, it simply does not sit well to execute such a. complex relationship is such shoddy way.

And the final scene ending with Vi calling herself “the dirt under your nails,” when Zaunites had always been the “dirt” under Piltover.

It really sits very bitter on throat when you dissect the layers of the show and how it chalked everything up to poor canonisation of such ship.

so apparently vi’s parents being killed by enforcers was just done to add complexity in caitvi relationship? and that’s why cait and her parents were chosen to be enforcers.

S1 really wokebaited everyone😭