#SPN Fandom musings

[watching-sam-and-dean-again]

Confession Time!

A lot of people say they wouldn't have a problem with destiel if it wasn’t for how terribly the hellers (not the regular, unproblematic Destiel shippers) behave. I agree on the fact that the death-threat hurling, actor harassing, fandom toxifying, gaslighting asses make me actively hate the ship, too. But, even if all of its shippers were calm and lovely, I would STILL hate the idea of destiel. This is going to about the ship itself and why I don’t like it, not about criticizing the people who ship it (reasonably).

If anyone stumbles across this and wants to claim it’s because I’m homophoic or some dumb shit, feel free to show yourself out. And grow up. If you agree or are just curious as to why, feel free to read on.

The first reason I can’t get on board with destiel is Castiel himself:

I hate the ship because, if you look at it as Castiel having feeling for Dean from early on, he comes off as an even bigger creep than he already is to me. First, how many times has he invaded Dean's personal space or stared at him while he slept, even though Dean has told him not to and indicated it made him uncomfortable? I can think of at least 4 off the top of my head, but I’m sure there are more. These moment are written as jokes, and to show Cas is a derpy weirdo, but if you want to read them as a biproduct of Castiel having feeling for Dean, it makes him a creepy stalker.

Second, Castiel only caring about other people, including Sam and Jack, because of Dean makes him a s selfish and kind of shitty character to me. I like the idea of Castiel being a defective amgel, coming off the assembly line with a "crack in his classy," meaning he was always inclined to question things too much, maybe have an natural affinity for humans, to rebel. The idea that our show's version of Sam, Dean and even Castiel were special because they always defied the story that was written for them is the ultimate demonstration of free will winning out, and it speaks to the uniqueness of "our versions" of their characters. But, when it’s framed as Castiel only rebelling because he has a boner for Dean (like the "confession" scene seems to retroactively suggest), only ever questioned anything because he had a boner for Dean, only went against his fellow angels because he was hot for Dean and not becuae Dean inspired him to do the right thing, and only cared about people he says he loves and calls family because of Dean … that makes Dean special, not Castiel. In fact, it makes Castiel a simp who can’t think for himself, and is anything but genuine in his claim of caring about anyone but Dean. It makes him bereft of his own agency.

Finally, I hate the idea of Dean and Castiel ever being in a romantic relationship because of the seriously wrong things he has done to people. Castiel essentially forced Jimmy Novak to become his vessel again by possessing his daughter and basically holding her ransom until he consented to be Castiel's vessel again, and he still thinks he did the right thing into late seasons, Even when he finds Claire to sort of, kind of try make up for taking her dad away, he makes a feeble effort at best, and then basically just wonders off and forgets about her again after his momentary attack of conscious. For Dean, a character who fights to have free will, to shack-up with someone who took over a man's body and when he died (because Castiel took his boy into battle), he just sort of took over the body for himself and called it his, like a crab … is a huge smack in the face to Dean being heroic. Hello, even Sam wouldn’t bang Ruby until she found a braindead vessel, whose soul had likely departed already (and he’s the monster fucker). Castiel also broke Sam's hell wall leading to him going insane and nearly dying of insomnia, and he did it purposely to hurt and worry Dean, and to distract him from his plan to play god. This is inexcusable, and that fact that Dean even stays his friend feels like a betrayal to Sam, as well as out of character frankly, never mind going on to have a relationship with him. Finally, Castiel has threatened and beaten Dean when he doesn’t do what he wants more than once, and despite what hellers think, I don’t find abuse sexy.

The next reason I can’t get onboard with Destiel is Dean:

Dean laterally implies, out right says, and demonstrates multiple times throughout the show that he is straight. Thus, with the version of Castiel that Dean knows being in a male vessel, Dean just isn’t going to be interested in him that way. I’ve seen shippers srgue that people sometimes fall in love with someone of the same sex despite identifying as straight, but come on, that is going to be a relatively small percentage of of people. But more than that, Dean isn’t a real person, he’s a character. If the writers were going to make his character have a change of sexuality, or make an exception for Castiel, they would have had to explicitly show it on screen, through words and actions, and not just drop "subtext hints" that never go anywhere, and are largely stupid or hinged on stereotypes. They never did, so Dean remained hero sexual to the end.

Even if his sexuality were not a barrier, Dean does not knowingly peruse monsters. Castiel despite how depowered an essentially useless he becomes over time, is not a human. Angels are essentially just another flavor of monster on Supernatural, thus Dean is not be interested in dating Castiel even if he were in a female vessel, despite what some shippers like to claim. The only times Dean has knowingly hooked up with a monster was with Anna, and that was before she got her grace back and was a true angel again. The other monster he slept with was the Amazon, or whatever she was, before she had a kid with him without his consent, and Dean didn’t know that she was a monster. He frequently criticized Sam for having been with monsters, and that criticism makes it pretty clear that he wouldn’t want to be with any himself. Finally, this is a bit of a side note, any many may not agree with me, but I don't think Dean sees any supernatural creatures as quite equal to humans, and that includes Castiel, Jack and Benny. If it weren’t enough that Dean isn’t into males, the fact that he also isn’t into monsters, pretty much makes the destiel ship dead in the water for me.

Finally, the way Dean treats Castiel is not conducive friendship at times, never mind me shipping them. Dean pretty frequently belittles Castiel, calling him essentially uselesess when he doesn’t have powers (baby in a trench coat), and he makes fun of Castiel working at the Gas 'n Sip to try sustain himself, after Dean kicked him out of the bunker powerless and penniless. If Dean loves Castiel, mocking him for working whatever job he can after he turned him away, is an interesting way to show it. He also lashes out at Castiel pretty harshly (I though often deservedly). He tells Castiel that "nobody cares that he’s broken," and he says "everything that goes wrong" seems to be because of Castiel, and he told him that if anything happened to his mother after Castiel failed to warn them about Jack' behavior, Castiel would be "dead" to him. Even when the show reminds us of Castiel's existence when he’s not in an episode by having Dean claim he’s worried about him, or having Sam reassure him they’ll find/help Castiel, when Castiel actually is back, Dean essentially goes back to ignoreimg him. Dean only seems to care about Castiel when he’s missing or when he can help them fight something. In down time, he’s usually pretty happy just to chill with Sam.

Finally, I can’t ship destiel because of Sam, or more specially, Sam & Dean:

Sam and Dean have such a twisted-up, enmeshed, and all-consuming relationship with each other, that shipping either of them with characters outside of their relationship just isn’t interesting to me. I personally don’t ship them together, either. What they have goes beyind relationship categorization (brothers, friends, adversaries, parent/child, life partners, etc.), and I honesty think if the show had defied network parameters and actually had them hook up sexually, the relationship would have lost something. Sam and Dean are so unique and compelling in that their big love is a sibling and not a romantic parnptner, or even a parent/child relationship, that even as a fan of a good romantic pairing normally, I love that them exactly as they are. And their relationship is more meaningful to me than almost any other fictional one I’ve encountered. So frankly, shipping either with anyone long-term (I wouldn’t have hated seeing both of them have one more short romantic relationship in there somewhere) just feels pointless to me, and would just pale in comparison to what Sam and Dean are with to each other.

[malevolent-muse]

⛤🧸⛤

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[dreamsandcherrypie]

1.04 Phantom Traveler

I look at him and all I see is light and shadow like he is a goddamn muse that face was made for art

[tsukiyo-7]

societal taboos are funny that way. enjoying fictional mass murder, torture, blahblah? no proooooblem. demon dean was fun, boyking Sam my beloved, cas should've murdered MORE angels actually, spn is my favorite show etc.

consensual adult siblings (also fictional) incest? IMMORAL u heathens.

I think it's just because people don't act on an actual real moral compass or rational thinking but more on the very narrow and black and white basis "this makes me uncomfortable therefore is bad".

The general audience is used to blood, gore and sex, but everything is always filtered in a specific cultural lens; if before we had more variety and wiggle room in what the media portrayed, now most of the mainstream is the offspring of the U.S.A. and these illusory "western values" that, as European, I firmly believe are made up bullshit (but that's a discussion for another time).

Anyway, in this specific lens that I'm sure you can guess what it is, if and when incest is contemplated it's always cishet, between twisted motherfuckers (allow me the scientific term lol) or used for shock value and generally described as an unfortunate affair. And people can be okay with that, it disturbs them, sure, but they can move on with their perception intact. Look at the success Game of Thrones had.

The problem with Wincest, I think, is the fact that for starters we're put in a place in which Sam and Dean are the good guys. Your perception of their actions is increasingly altered as you progress, although they murder a worrisome amount of people, you still end up rooting for them. In the second instance, a relationship between them would be queer in a way people aren't used to seeing because they're not quirky or kinky or wholesome and their entire personality and story doesn't evolve around their identity. They're just some dudes, albeit a bit weird, probably perceived as peak masculinity, if the popularity of the show among the military is anything to go by. And finally, their love is destructive yes, but infinitely tender; they care for each other to an unbelievable extent and there's no denying that even if you don't ship them romantically.

You're forced to acknowledge the fact that something can exist beyond everything you've always been taught and believed in so far and that makes people more uncomfortable than a depiction of abuse ever will.

[kara-winchest3r]

[ash-muses]

(OOC) Just a few reminders! You're not obligated to match my length or anything like that, so please don't feel pressured to do so. I also don't mind waiting on replies (I can be slow myself, so take your time). If my fonts/colors bother you at all, please let me know; I'd rather you be comfortable and I know I have a few RP partners that I try not to use the small font with because they can't read it well. Have fun with it and let me know if you need me to change anything! :D ♡ Starter for @linnylooo

It had been a long day for the Winchesters — hell, their whole life had been one long day. Sam and Dean were seated across from one another at the long table in the bunker, preparing for the next case that had been sent their way. The older Winchester shoved the last bite of a pizza slice into his mouth, closing the lid and sliding it down the smooth surface out of his way. He met Sam's gaze, crossing his arms and leaning forward on his elbows.

"You want a beer, Sammy?" he offered after a minute, gaze flickering toward the kitchen area and then back to his younger brother. Spotting the hesitance in Sam's features, Dean prodded a little further, "C'mon, take a load off, huh? You've been neck deep in lore for days now. It's not going to kill you to take one night off."

The recent hunts held Sam's focus more than usual, trying to track down anything that might help them deal with the sudden influx of people that had returned to life. They didn't have any leads yet, and neither Jody nor Donna had been able to find anything either. For the time being, there was nothing else they were able to do — and while he didn't want to admit it, Dean had a point. Pausing briefly, Sam observed him and then replied with a ghost of a smile. "Uh, yeah, all right," he began, voice low and soft, "I guess you're right. Thanks, Dean."

It wasn't long until Dean had returned with a case of beer from the fridge, twisting the tab off with ease before he tossed it aside and passed the frosty bottle to Sam. Meanwhile, the younger Winchester had closed his laptop and leaned back in his chair with a sigh, giving his brother a small nod as he took the offered drink. The familiar taste slightly eased the edge he felt, yet something in his core still didn't feel right. Minutes ticked by before something had caught Dean's attention.

His head whipped around toward the stairs that led to the exit of the bunker, his senses heightening at the subtle disruption. Some sort of banging. In a practiced motion, his hand smoothly slipped a gun out from behind his back; his vision sharpened, pulse increasing as he held the weapon pointed downward and headed toward the door to the bunker. On the other hand, Sam was right behind him, opened beer sat forgotten upon the table and a secondary pistol clutched tightly in his grip. Unlike his brother, he was much calmer, yet his concentration mirrored Dean's.

They each quietly took separate sides of the door frame and with a silent signal, Sam swiftly opened the door and Dean stepped out, gun cocked and pointed at the entrance. He felt his chest tighten at the sight, his eyes widening imperceptibly in disbelief. What the hell was she doing here? Dean's heart simultaneously soared and broke, his momentary hesitation evident.

"Jo?"

[cloudybrews]

( open to all )

A simple pop and teenage ( what seem to be ) a teen appeared out of no where dress in seem to be school clothing.

A large suitcase in hand that seem to big. He put it on the ground gave it kick before muttering .

" No No No No No" he groans. “This isn't right.. stupid suitcase" he mumbles shaking his head.

He finally notice you and raised eyebrow “ who are you, where am I and do you have coffee “ he asked in somewhat rush.

[phoenixmuses]

♡ Continued from here ♡ For @gentle-hearted

Dean's expression softened a bit when he realized he might have come across too gruffly. Running a hand through his cropped hair, he sighed in frustration and then took a few steps closer, hand finding its way to her shoulder with a gentle and reassuring squeeze. "Don't apologize, all right?" he muttered, a hint of understanding and concern setting in. "Just promise me you're not gonna do anything that reckless again."

After a minute, he moved to take a seat nearby, leaning his arms forward on his thighs and observing her closely. "We'll keep watch, make sure nothin' gets in that ain't supposed to," Dean went on, "We'll also set you up with some Dead Man's Blood and a scent-blocking mixture, just in case. It won't kill 'em, but it'll slow 'em down long enough." He glanced up at the clock, noting that it was nearly sunrise before he returned his attention back to Jane, "When the time comes, we'll go and clear out the nest nearby — Sam's already close to tracking down their location."

[biitchcakes]

ROLEPLAY HISTORY !

The rules are simple! Post characters you’d like to roleplay as, have roleplayed as, and might bring back. Then tag ten people to do the same (if you can’t think of ten, just write down however many you can and tag that number of people). Please repost, don’t reblog!

CURRENT MUSE/S :

Jessica Drew / Spider-Woman — Marvel Comics

WANT TO WRITE :

Hera Syndulla — Star Wars: Rebels

Tess Servopoulos — The Last of Us (show)

GLaDOS — Portal 2

Eleanor Shellstrop — The Good Place

HAVE WRITTEN :

Jennifer Walters / She-Hulk — Marvel Comics

Bobbi Morse / Mockingbird — Marvel Comics

Alison Blair / Dazzler — Marvel Comics

Jan Van Dyne / The Wasp — Marvel Comics

Jessica Jones — Marvel Comics

Sam Winchester — Supernatural

Chell — Portal 2

Danny Johnson / Ghost Face — Dead By Daylight

Mikaela Reid — Dead By Daylight

Amy Pond — Doctor Who

Rose Tyler — Doctor Who

Legolas — Lord of the Rings

And a few OCs between The Elder Scrolls and Dragon Age Inquisition

WOULD WRITE AGAIN :

Probs just Jen and Sammy ( although - )

stolen from: @overclocks tagging: @hexsreality @danversiism @oceansfirst @silverjetsystm @neonwebs @revenantinflames @liiched @sxrgeantbarnes @raisedcold @watsonjackpot @webxfshame @gwenbiote @writteninscarlet @cosmicrayed

[mintconditiondean]

Here's my hot take:

So many ppl in fandom put so much weight on what the actors, directors, and writers have to say about a character's sexuality. Fans trying to use this actor or that writer's quotes as evidence for or against a character being queer. And like.

Let's look at a similar phenomenon: when characters are perceived as autistic. There have been plenty of autistic characters portrayed on film that are not textually described as autistic - even some for which actors and writers have come out to say that the character is not intended to be autistic. But... the thing is... these characters frequently display traits that people have seen in real life in the "weird" or "quirky" ppl that the writers have seen. People who were almost certainly autistic. The people who created the character may not have realized that they were making an autistic character, but when you base a character on the observed traits of autistic people you see in life, that character is autistic, whether or not you know that.

And a lot of character framing, direction, etc. on film these days is inspired/based on historic techniques that were refined during the Hays Code era, when queerness had to be hinted at, had to be subtextual, was enough of a joke that you could laugh it off as not meaning anything. Those writers, directors, and actors knew that they were queer characters in a queer narrative, but there had to be plausible deniability to get it through censors. (Check out The Celluloid Closet if you want to learn more.)

Anyway... If new shows or movies use those subtextual methods for their characters and in their narrative, then those characters are queer, regardless of how many of the writers, directors, or actors know it.

And yes, this post is about Dean Winchester being queer.

[vecnasrevengerp]

What role(s) could you see fitting Bill Skarsgård?

with so few canons left to choose from, we could see bill as tommy h or troy walsh, but if you're looking to write an OC we would love to see him as a wheeler cousin or even the son of our dear beloved officer callahan!

[improudofyousammy]

Not really SPN related but I promise I will tie it in!

So I am rewatching part three of Netflix's Sabrina. And I just got to the part where Nick finally loses his shit on Sabrina about the whole going to Hell thing. And I think a lot of people turn on Nick at this point because he tells her she wasn't worth him going to Hell and going through everything he went to.

Well, yeah

No one should be worth going to Hell for.

The show takes the exact opposite approach of SPN. Nick actually suffers and has scars and wounds from being in Hell and everyone moves on like nothing happens and he should be hunky dorey. While SPN makes Dean A-okay and everyone else thinks he should be (at least from the audience. Sam seems to think Dean is okay. Which Okay Sam Okay)

I feel like Nick sums it up pretty well. "You weren't worth it." And I know Dean will never ever say that to Sam. He will never look his brother in the eyes and tell him he was not worth going to Hell for because in some messed up part of his brain, Dean will always think his brother was worth it.

But did he think it? Oh you bet your ass he did. While he was on the rack and his was going through all sorts of horrible things -- he questioned if it was worth it. But he never said it.

[schrodingers-dove]

it's like... my primary ship in spn is destiel (tho not my primary interest in the fandom by a long shot) and yes i'm a late arrival to the fandom but the schism between destiel and wincest shippers is really weird to me? maybe it's that i came in without years and years of baggage but the division just seems like a... i don't know that i want to necessarily call it a downer, but the fact that the fandom schism runs so deep i felt it necessary to set up a side blog for some of my content is just. idk. i stumbled into fandom in the age of webrings and the vibes and culture were very different then.

another thing is that in my spn fandom travels i've stumbled across the inactive and defunct blogs of multishippers who felt that they had to pick a bloody side (in the delightful words of crowley) and it's just a shame to lose that blog diversity.

i completely understand that wincest can be triggering to folks (especially survivors of incest) but the vitriol feels unwarranted if ppl are just staying in their lane. there are toxic and confrontational ppl on both sides of the fandom and tarring everyone with the same brush just feels unproductive and allows those toxic ppl to operate unchecked on "their" side of the fandom.

also like. even tho i may not actively "ship it" i do see wincest as being integral to understanding the text of spn, whether you read it as a platonic co-dependent dynamic or a more gothic romantic/sexual one. so many puzzle pieces just really click into place when you say that yeah, intentional or not, this is A Thing and a driving dynamic in the narrative.

i've tried to write all this down multiple times to post on my main blog and always found myself equivocating to a ridiculous degree so. here's to the freedom of an anonymous side blog.

[tsukiyo-7]

Why do you ship wincest?

Don't you ever stop and think maybe it's a little weird to ship two brothers?

Just curious tbh, I really don't get it

Hello there!

I'm just gonna assume this is in good faith because it's better for us both this way.

The why is more or less the same anyone else involved in shipping might give you about their otp or whatever ship they might enjoy; I'm besotted with their dynamic, their interections, the touches and lingering glances, the said AND unsaid. I genuinely don't have the time right now to launch myself in an essay about all the reasons why I think they're crazy for each other, in every sense of the word, nor I think it is exactly what you're looking for, but if you scroll down a little on my blog you will most likely find a comprehensive list of canon moments that might point you to the right direction, if you so feel inclined.

As for the second question. Honestly? No, I don't.

To me, it's literal another fictional thing I enjoy among the countless other. Like, I'm totally aware that from an outside point of view and a surface level it appears fucked up, because that's a kneejerk reaction to the things that make us uncomfortable and, I mean this in the most neutral and non-judgemental way possible, you have to develop a certain level of analisis and disposition to overcome it; just like to some it appears fucked up that I enjoy horror stories or idk, that I can quote all 4 Twilight movies by heart lol. Damn, to some it's fucked up that I even listen to metal, so really, how stressed should I be about what it looks like from the outside? ("It" being my whole scope of interests apparently, depending who you ask).

The whole issues boils down to the fact that it's all not real. I know it's not real, my homies know it's not real, the existence of the ship and me liking it doesn't actually harm anyone, so why worry? I won't suddenly turn into an abuse apologist or whatever people might think because of a ship, because I'm a whole person with critical thinking and a fully developed moral compass that in no way cross paths with whatever is the subject of my bedtime story of the day; and if that was the case then it still wouldn't be the fiction fault but mine, or maybe, at most, of the people who raised me.

If you don't like horror don't watch it, if you don't like metal don't listen to it, if you don't like wincest block me. It's that simple.

[mintconditiondean]

Reporting this to the unaware masses lmao: Thailand released the first episode of a moderately-highly-anticipated BL today, about professional racers, and revealed (with absolutely zero hint of it in any trailers and marketing) that it is set in the omegaverse. And the main relationship is Alpha/Alpha.

[ash-muses]

(OOC) Lmao, thanks for sending this in! :D Hannes seems interesting, so this should be fun~ Just a few reminders: you're not obligated to match my length (I can get pretty detailed at times) and if any of my colors or the small font bother you, please let me know and I'll adjust that so you're comfortable. 💜 ♡ For anyone curious, here's more info on Baphomet ♡ Collection of icky, bloody prompts for those who like to choose violence ♡ Starter for @himbosquad

Dean had lockpicked himself into the library late in the night, aiming to retrieve an old spellbook from the safe in the main office. There were demons on the search to get ahold of it, a spell inside that was rumored to call upon Baphomet. What he hadn't expected was that one of the librarians had accidentally dozed off in the building. When he was halfway through cracking the code on the safe, the faint creak of the door opening behind him set Dean on high alert.

Within a split second, his gun was drawn and pointed toward the figure in the doorway, wariness evident in his sharp features. Scanning over the man before him, his brows arched slightly with a mix of guardedness and determination. "Yeah, well," came his steady, gruff voice, "You should be. Start talking — what do you know about the book in that safe?"