#Ring Cycle

[haljathefangirlcat]

What's your ideal age range for the Volsung-Nibelung-Dietrich cycle characters? In the Scandinavian sources, Brynhild claims to have been adopted by Agnar and Aud at 12 to be their mascot valkyrie (which is what got her in hot water with Odin) and was put to sleep for any number of years, with sources differing on if her old retainer Heimir was her foster father or brother-in-law. Sigurd himself claims to be barely a man, that is, the legal adult age of 16, when Regin packs him off to slay Fafnir. Altogether it seems the two of them are rather young (16-19 physically?) and Gudrun is also in their age group. Later on Gothorm is too young to swear brotherhood with Sigurd and is thus used to kill him, making him younger than Sigurd and younger than 16 when they met.

In the Continental materials, Giselher is also called young, but there's no mention of Gernot and by extension Giselher being under 16 when they meet Siegfried. Gunther seems a fair bit older than them, being the first born and succeeding to the throne (as a sub-king, presumably, in versions where Gibich is still alive) shortly before Walther's escape from Etzel. However, he doesn't seem to have had a wife in either Continental or Scandinavian versions before his mother suggests Brynhild, which might indicate he's still fairly young. Historically he was active during 411-436, which gives him a 20+ year reign.

Hagen's age definitely has the greatest variation across sources. In the Nibelungenlied proper he's much older than the Nibelung siblings, but in the Walther stories he doesn't seem that much older than Walther, Hildegund, and Gunther, and the first two might be preteens at oldest. And of course in the Scandinavian materials, he's definitely younger than Gunther, being one of the Nibelung brothers. Classically, he's brother #2, slotting between Gunnar and Gothorm, with his father being Andvari/Alberich/Aldrian the elf. Wagner makes him presumably the youngest sibling. (Of course there's also the possibility that Grimhild/Ute just brought him along when she married Gibich, which would make him the oldest sibling. And also explain why Gibich would just pawn him off to Etzel.) Dankwart is also in the older adult range, but if Hagen was illegitimate, he could just have had a different mother, because who knows how long elves live, except it being very long. Hagen's unnamed sister (Gullrond?) would have to be much older to give Hagen two nephews, one of which is an adult during the Nibelungenlied.

Dietrich's age is also funky. He's presumably the same age as Wudga and Heime, his two closest companions until the exile. They don't seem to be too much older than Siegfried, Gunther, and Kriemhild. Dietrich gets tutored by Hildebrand when he's seven, acquires Hildigrim and Nagelring at fifteen, and has his Virginal/Wunderer adventure (the plots are so similar I suspect them to be the same story) at sixteen. He goes into exile sometime between the Rosengarten tournament and Kriemhild's marriage to Etzel. By then he's definitely a fair bit older than the young adults Alphart, Wolfhart, and Dietlieb, but Hildebrand is just ready to welcome the birth of Hadubrand. Historically, the Burgundian Nibelungs died in 436, the Visigothic Dietrich died in 451, Attila died in 454, and if Dietrich was also Theodoric the Great, he would've lived into 526. Then again, his family is known for ridiculously long lifespans, with the stories from his cycle claiming his father, grandfather, and uncle all lived into at least their 100s.

Hildebrand, Ilsan, Eckart, and Regin are all consistently portrayed as old guys. So is Sigmund in the Scandinavian material, where he actually featured prominently. Sigurd's two Volsung brothers are presumably dead during the main adventures, because Brynhild and Gudrun mention Hamund and Haki, his nephews via Hamund, usurping the Swedish throne and feuding with the pirate King Sigar. Helgi died in the prime of his life, while Hamund never appears on screen (but the movie adaptation of Hagbard and Signy mentions he was killed by Sigar a few years before, when his sons were children).

Etzel is definitely older than Walther, Hagen, and Dietrich, but strangely, there's no particular mention of him being old. Then again, there's no mention of Gibich and Ute being old in the Rosengarten story either. Nor is there any mention of how much Hjordis and Prince Alf might have aged in the Volsung Saga. In the Scandinavian stuff, Atli's sister Oddrun gets sneaky with Gunnar, but that version doesn't include Etzel's past with Walther, so who knows how old either of the Hun siblings are.

That's a great rundown of all the different traditions, and you make some great points.

As for me, I don't have really have age headcanons for anyone, going more for The Vibes and the "okay, what do I need for this concept to work?", but at the same time, age is one of those things where I tend to compartmentalize pretty heavily, for both practical reasons (I'm pretty sure I'd have a harder time than you keeping track of everything going on and gathering it all up into something coherent!) and thematic ones. (Simply put: different things work better for me, or have a stronger hold on me, in different contexts because I feel I can make more out of them on a narrative level.)

So, here's how things (generally) go in my head:

Norse sources: I tend to see Sigurd as rather young, because as you mentioned, he describes himself as such around the time he's sent off to kill Fafnir. I also tend to see his first adventures, from finding Grani to falling for Sigrdrifa/Brynhild and meeting Gjuki's children, as happening in rather quick succession, sort of a whirlwind of violence and drama and revenge and romance... so, yeah, still a teen (older teen at most) when he ends up meeting married to Gudrun. I imagine Gjuki's children to be all pretty close in age (except maybe Gothorm, a fair bit younger than the rest, and Gullrond, who reads sort of like a wise oldest sister to me, tho she doesn't feature a lot in my headcanons) and in the same age range as Sigurd, but I don't otherwise have a fixed birth order for in my head besides Gunnar being the oldest.

Brynhild is... complicated. You've got the enchanted sleep, and the question of how long it lasted and how fast or slow she aged, physically and mentally, in it. You've got all her wisdom and knowledge that, to me, makes her read a little older than Siegfried in her brief stint as his teacher, but then again, also the fact that she used to be a Valkyrie rather than just a mortal woman, so all that might be more supernatural knowledge and wisdom than anything else. And then, you have her foster father, Heimer (who's also her brother-in-law through her sister Bekkhild), and her brother Atli, and ofc Agnar. The timeline can get kind of messy, if you try to make it all fit in, because there's just so much stuff. The one thing I always stick by is Atli being considerably older than her (by a decade or more) and them not being particularly close, due to the "Atli didn't give much of a damn about getting compensation for her death, it was just a pretext to get the gold" interpretation, which is the one I tend to favor.

Nibelungenlied/Waltharius/continental sources: Here, I tend to see everyone as a bit older then their Norse counterparts. Siegfried, after all, has already conquered something like twelve kingdoms and gained his fair share of fame through distant lands by the time he comes to Worms -- and while dragon-blood-enhanced strength must certainly come in handy with all that, all in all, it must still have taken him some time. Still, I do seem him as kind of younger than you'd expect with his curriculum. A little older than yet still a good fit for Kriemhild, a maiden who's definitely able to fall in love and fall hard yet doesn't seem to have ever felt that kind of feeling for anyone before meeting him, to the point she used to see the whole thing as something foreign and that she could totally just choose to avoid.

My birth order for her and her brothers is generally Gunther > Gernot > Kriemhild > Giselher. With the eternal "youth" Giselher, who gets stuck with that title even in later parts of the poems being kind of the baby of the family. Not literally, ofc, but in the sense that, even if the poem counts him as one of the three kings of Burgundy and protectors of Kriemhild, it's his brothers who handle most of the harder work even while kind of "mentoring" him on kingship through the rather hands-on method of having him rule alongside them. Anyway, I see this whole set of siblings as pretty close in age, too, just to avoid overcomplicating my life, but with a couple of years separating Gunther & Gernot and Kriemhild & Giselher, something that also influences their dynamics as siblings.

When it comes to Hagen, I'm very influenced by the Waltharius, where he's presumably the same age as Walther and Hildegund and somewhat older than Gunther. I still don't see him as that much older than his kings, tho, as I interpret Gunther being too young to be sent away as a hostage to the Huns as him really being very young. Think Hagen being in his early teens and Gunther still being a child at the time. I tend to assume something like an at least five years difference between them, and then Gunther ascending to the throne a bit younger than he should probably be due to Gibich's very sudden and premature death, with Ute being his counselor (or trying to be, at least -- Wasgenstein wasn't exactly the most brilliant idea and I do think she opposed it but also that in the end it was still his choice) for the first few years and then him naming Gernot (and finally Giselher) as his co-kings as soon as possible due to feeling the pressure of being the only ruler as soon as he got started on the job. (Which, in my head, also contributes to him only setting his eyes on a bride rather late, despite the court muttering a bit about it at times... too much stuff on his mind already, and for a good while, too.)

Dankwart is an interesting case, as in the latter half of the poem, he claims to have also been just a youth when Siegfried was murdered. Granted, I've seen interpretations dismissing that info as a mere messed-up timeline or as Dankwart just lying through his teeth, due to his role in the court of Worms, but I personally find more interesting/funnier to take it as face value. The idea of him being about as cunning as his older brother Hagen and proving himself as an asset to the kingdom from an early age (perhaps in part to live up to Hagen himself and his deeds) yet playing the "I am/was only a regular youth" card when it suits him is higly entertaining to me. As for their sister, the mother of Patravid and/or Ortwin, I see her as the oldest of the trio, and definitely already out of the house by the time Aldrian volunteers Hagen as a substitute hostage.

(I'm not very fond of the "Hagen as Gunther's uncle/family friend so dear he might as well be a blood-related uncle" thing, tbh. Does it have some backing? Yeah. Do I see it in the way the characters interact? Not really, and that's what matters the most to me.)

Etzel/Attila was already a considerable threat for the Burgundians at the beginning of the Waltharius, and married, too. And yet, apparently still childless... unless his children with Helche, who iirc get killed by Witege at some point, have already died by then. (But that does involve Dietrich, after all, and... er, I'm talking about him in a moment, let's leave it at that for now.) So, he's a bit of a question mark to me. Tho I like to think he and his wife ended up treating Hagen, Walther, and Hildegung almost like their children, whatever void in their life they're trying to fill by doing that... but ofc, that was a whole mess in it's own way, when everyone was perfectly aware that a broken treaty could spell death for any of those three. (Hi and welcome to a new episode of: Waltharius Manu Fortis Absolutely Obliterates Halja's Feels, I suppose.) I do see his later marriage to Kriemhild as a kind of May-December romance. Or, well, "romance."

Dietrich is... Dietrich. If Brynhild's complicated and Etzel a question mark, he is a headache. I'll admit I've never even tried to build a timeline for him that could possibly make sense in my head. Stephan Grundy has a bit of a running joke about him looking like he never gets old/no one being able to figure out his age for sure, and, tbh, I totally get him. Drag him.

Bonus Wagner's Ring Cycle: I'm pretty sure Gunther mentions being the firstborn... tho I've only ever read the libretti/subtitles to the operas in Italian and English, so for all I know, he might as well be just saying that he has the right of primogeniture, as the one legitimate male son. Still, I see Gutrune as the middle child and Hagen as the youngest. This is another canon that skews very young in my head, with Siegfried, the Gibichungs, Wotan's eternally-maidenly Valkyries, as well as Siegmund and Sieglinde in Die Walkure, all being some subset of Troubled Teen Who Needs Therapy (As Well As Better Parents), Not This Shit. Based on the implied timeline in Die Walkure, I think of Hagen as just a little older (a few months to a year, no more) than Siegfired. I love to joke about the former being a cynical goth/emo teen (Hagen's Night Watch scene and its endless -- if objectively kind of justified -- bitching, my beloved) and the latter being your typical meathead teen jock. I also joke about Gutrune being the stereotypical middle child with no self-esteem and Gunther being the young adult who should probably be at least a little more mature and responsible than everyone else, given his age, but is really just a mess on every level, but alas, I do that mostly just in my head, because sometimes I get the impression it's mostly just me seeing (or being interested in seeing) them this way.

[beckmessering]

we all know suits are an ugly costume choice, but

hagen in patrice chéreau's götterdämmerung is the only character who is legally allowed to wear a suit as a costume. and here's why.

^ (hagen is on the left)

i wish i could ask chéreau if he specifically intended it to be read this way because imo nothing screams overworked dead-inside rage-harbouring office cubicle worker like a baggy ill-fitting suit and a worn collar with a floppy tie. it screams corporate rat race from which you'll never escape, forever trapped behind a desk slaving away for a promotion and a pat on the back from your boss, a moment's praise and attention, but destined to stay the worker and never enter the c-suite. office cubicle worker is, in a way, the nightmare continuation of the idea alberich was sick of: toiling away in a factory as a member of the then-working-class, except we're 100-ish years past rheingold's industrial revolution setting now. as the nibelungen will never escape the factory, their industriousness trapped behind clanging machines and never to be rewarded with true riches for their labour, so the office cubicle worker will make a dime for his boss to make a dollar.

and that's hagen, isn't it? that's his heritage as a half-nibelung son. he's inherited this fate of workingworkingworking, except he unfortunately landed in a position where he can wonderfully examine the life of riches gunther and his dinner suit crew lead. he gets a spot at the table, gets to eat their food, but he is there to counsel gunther and increase his half-brother's fame, not receive any of his own. he will never exit the rat race. and just the way alberich's treasure was stolen by a richer, stronger god who simply took what he wanted, hagen now meets siegfried, who, while not richer, is simply stronger and very adept at seizing what he wants by some sort of birthright that lets him cruise right past the rat race.

so you've got this little social climber, who doesn't seem to be aware of his birthright, which is the gift to be able to seize anything he wants simply by the right of the stronger, which he makes ample use of, while you're overworked and overtired. fritz hübner's eyes have been overshadowed and his lips almost blackened and he looks like he hasn't showered or shaved in days, and his face twitches when he's left alone. he sings fantasies of everyone serving him, finally, a nibelung son. if i were in that position and only so much as felt the shadowy threat of another person ascending to a position i actually want by some right of the stronger, some intangible BiRtHrIgHt that shouldn't even exist yet never stops separating people - yeah, i'd stab that fcker too.

so yeah, the suit is ugly. it is not a vibe. but this specific iteration of the character is so far the only person for whom it's justified because the reasoning goes beyond "it’s a modern production". the rest of you, go wear capes.

[illustratus]

Siegfried and the Rhinemaidens by Hans Zatzka

[clouds-of-wings]

Broke: Ugly modern minimalist Wagner staging

Woke: Beautiful old-fashioned Wagner staging

Bespoke: FUTURISTIC PSYCHEDELIC SPACE WAGNER

I have slowly watched the Ring Cycle in the 2008 Valencia production over the last weekends. (It's also on YT, but without subtitles.) First time I watched the whole thing! I wanted something more traditional at first, but I happened upon an excerpt of this version and it just somehow appealed to me, so I watched this instead.

(I still agree with what I said on the topic earlier - if I didn't know anything about the source material, the Nibelungen and Norse mythology, I would have found this staging very confusing.)

Anyway, here's some pictures because it just looks so damn cool. Sorry the quality is not so great. DON'T click to enlarge! Believe me, you'll regret it.

THE NORNS:

Fricka argues with Wotan:

THE VALKYRIES:

A talking bird:

This is what the inside of a dragon lair looks like:

The scheming nobles / corrupt elite are investment bankers or something. First picture: Gutrune and Gunther. Second picture: Hagen and his men.

Alberich visits his son Hagen:

Brünnhilde in her wedding dress, having the worst day of her life in front of Rhine-waves made from empty plastic bottles:

Mime in his chemistry lab (this must be REALLY confusing to anyone who doesn't know the story - why does he have an isolated chemistry lab in the forest? Originally he's a smith.):

Wotan and Mime talk about giants, which are visualized as battle mechs, I was so delighted!

Wotan, who was intensely dramatic for 16 hours straight:

The wall of fire around Brünnhilde's rock bed:

Gutrune always travels in her personal miniature death star:

Finally, Ragnarök:

And those are the 30 pictures per post that I'm allowed.

[bunelgaaa]

Reworking old oc concept stuff cuz i've missed drawing my guy Martin and cuz I can't contain Ring Cycle posting anymore

[blackswaneuroparedux]

Music, Schopenhauer wrote, is not unconscious arithmetic, as Leibniz had claimed, but unconscious philosophy, since in music the inner essence of the world, which is will, is made directly present to the mind.

- Roger Scruton, The Ring of Truth: The Wisdom of Wagner's Ring of the Nibelung    

[opera-ghosts]

„Der Ring des Nibelungen“ R. WAGNER „The End“ Some "in front of the curtains", "backstages", rehearsals and curiosities

"Walküre"Anny Konetzni and ?; Vienna Volksoper, 1926

"Aus dem Wald fort in die Welt ziehen!"Gotthelf Pistor (Siegfried) and Erich Zimmermann (Mime); Backstage Berlin, ?

"Rheingold" - Anny Konetzni (Fricka), Luise Helletsgruber (Freia) and Walter Grossmann (Wotan), Rehearsal; Vienna, 1936

"Siegfried" - Luise Willer as Erda, Backstage; Milan, 1938

"Walküre" - ? (Siegmund, Fafner, Fasolt) and ? (stage director); Rehearsal; Paris, ?

"Walküre" - ? (Siegmund, Brünnhilde, Sieglinde, Hunding) and ? (stage director) Backstage/Rehearsal; Paris, ?

[thatwhichdoesnotsuffer]

“In the first stages of the operas, Wotan is very concerned with the outcome of what is going to happen. He is frustrated, and he is always seeking to find a way to change the situation. But by this point in the opera, he has become more like Loge, more becoming involved in a scene and teasing, and then extracting himself, not taking any real direct action. And the reason is that Wotan, the Father, wants his son-his spiritual son, his Human Soul-to be strong, to develop his will, to not be weak, but to act when necessary, in the right way, and to know how to do it. This is why Wotan is around, is observing, is always watching, but never interferes. He never tells Siegfried what to do. He never tells him what to do. Meditate on that. Siegfried has to do what he thinks is right. He has to act, but on his own. Wotan does not want to develop a weak soul, a soul that is always lost, without direction, without strength. Wotan needs a warrior. Wotan needs Siegfried to have his own power.”

—Gnostic Instructor

[doyouknowthisopera]

[c0mpmath3nj0y3r]

so there's this thing called the McCollough effect. i won't post the images here, but essentially, you can break your brain's color perception for months by staring at some red and green striped lines for a few minutes. you can try it on the wikipedia article (if you dare).

anyways, a natural next question is to ask what the auditory equivalent of this is. and though i don't think this is quite the same thing, one possible candidate is listening to opera.

because after watching the entire ring cycle with my friends this weekend, my brain cannot stop interpreting every single background noise as someone belting out a libretto.

[haljathefangirlcat]

Sharing headcanons with you makes me realize...despite Gunther being the oldest Nibelung sibling (and possibly co-king even in his father's lifetime, ala Rosengarten) he's also the least specialized. Hagen/Hogni is the intense and super-strong one, Gernot/Gutthorm is the brave one, Giselher is the young one, and Gudrun/Kriemhild is the sweet one, and Gullrond if she's there might be the smart one. And then of course he gets the most awesome brother-in-law/blood brother who goes around fighting his battles for him. In real history, there's also the fact that his father in fact established their kingdom on the Rhineland, so Gibich must have had some big expectations for his eldest son. While he's no slouch, and rocks some serious musical talents in Norse sources, there's always this subtle feeling of inadequacy to Gunther. He's always pushing himself too hard but it turns out it's never enough. He must have some crippling feelings of inferiority that he's keeping behind that kingly facade.

(And now I imagine Oddrun giving him a "stop trying to be your father, live for yourself for once" speech, that results in him very impulsively doing the sneaky sneak with her.)

... okay, that last bit about Oddrun is just the sweetest thing! And very tragic, too, but I guess that comes with the territory. XD But jokes (and angst) aside, it really does sound like a very genuine and important connection and I love it.

As for Gunnar/Gunther himself, well...

I have to confess that, once, a lot of my ideas used to lowkey fall into the uncahritable "Gunnar/Gunther is kinda useless/weak" interpretation. But thanks to papers like “Mit (un)lobelichen êren”: Authority, Gender, and the Cause of Siegfried’s Death in the Nibelungenlied by Casey Alexis McCreary (about specifically Siegfried, Gunther, and Brunhild in the Nibelungenlied), as well as some influence from dear @galarix and @ivylili, I ended up re-evaluating him a lot both in the continental and Norse sources.

In the latter, I now find it really striking how he did want to leap over the flames, he did want to risk everything to go about the whole thing the right way. But he couldn't, and after that things increasingly spiralled out of his control in all the worst ways... and yet, even in the end, even with some admittedly pretty bad choices in the middle, he was no coward and went out with literally as much dignity as Hagen in the Nibelungenlied, using almost the exact same trick as him to defy his enemies and captors to the end.

In the former, I now find him not a bad king for Burgundy at all, but actually rather clever and resourceful in some moments. The paper I mentioned above actually does a very good job at arguing that he is pretty good at politics, it just that both Siegfried and Brunhild show their royal authority through heroic feats, with impressive shows of brute strength and charisma, so at first glance it's hard to recognize his qualities when they're the ones taking all the spotlight.

But actually having your own, solid good qualities and value, even when other people know about them and acknowledge them, isn't always going to be enough to make you feel satisfied with yourself...

I do still think he has an emotional, hotheaded, and impulsive side that he only learns to control slowly through the years and still gives him trouble sometimes even later on, tho. And as I previously said, I also see him as someone who was forced to take on the responsability of both his kingdom and his family too suddenly, and at too young an age, and always felt the weight of it all hanging above his head like the proverbial Sword of Damocles after that. And, taken together, that would all boil down to a lingering sense of self-doubt, I believe...

When it comes to his place in his family... or rather, families, I tend to see him as the brother who tries to be a proper head of the family, to bring honor and glory to his bloodline while also taking care of his siblings, but sometimes that all becomes too much to bear, and then he feels guilty about it because, is it even okay for him to feel that way? (It's certainly human and understandable, imo, and I think other characters would tell him that, too, but he'd rather keep that all inside until he blows up about some other, unrelated issues due to all the tension that's been building up, lol.)

The harp thing in the Norse stories is fun because it kinda looks like it comes from nowhere to give him a little bit of an Orpheus moment (soothing beasts with music, anyone?) as well as adding that tiny little bit of hope in desperate times only to rip it away right after. But I do like it a lot. I headcanon an interest and a talent for music for both Gunnar and Gunther that, unfortunately, neither of them ever really had the time or the conviction to make into more of a thing. Lately, tho, the multishipper in me who OTPs Volker/Hagen but also loves Gunther/Hagen has actually been playing with the idea of Volker and Gunther becoming closer (either as friends/friendly metamours, or as two people who, perhaps without even really realizing it, are inching their way into forming a throuple with their mutual partner) through Volker encouraging Gunther to revisit his old interest and reconnecting with what made him feel so good about it. But, well, that's another story...

And now, a bit of bonus Wagner because god, those three messed-up Gibichungs: Ring!Gunther is, like, the personification of an inferiority complex. He's literally introduced worrying that all his warring and conquering may not be enough (will maybe never be enough?) to live up to his late father's name. Hagen's mere suggestion that he's been keeping mum about some possible new conquest that could bring him honor pretty much sends him into a panic. He flatters Hagen (the same brother whose illegitimate and only half-human state he'll later callously throw in his face when all's said and done) by saying he's the lucky one who got all of their mother's cunning, but is it all flattery (especially when Alberich pretty much confirms the similarities between Hagen and Grimhild, and he doesn't really need to lie about it after doing his best as far as we know to isolate Hagen from full human beings) or is there some genuine envy there? Brunhhilde literally just needs to tell him he's shaming his family by refusing to kill Siegfried to have him wrapped around her little finger...

(Not that Ring!Hagen and Gutrune aren't also walking talking inferiority complexes in their own respective ways. I am unwell about that family.)

[beckmessering]

the all-consuming urge to scream FUCK HIM UP GIRLIE during wotan’s and brünnhilde’s final argument

[avibero]

So I read Das Rheingold this week. And yes, I have Der Walküre lined up and ready to go already. Never expected myself to be excited to read more opera, but here I am.

[shakespearenews]

I used to say (that) it's like Shakespeare, but it's not like Shakespeare in America anymore, because most people haven't even seen Hamlet. That wasn't the case when I was a kid. I think theater was more in the mainstream in the last hundred years, or more than in the last 25.

Stephen Wadsworth on The Ring Cycle 

[pushingthewave]

In this week's column, I discover new music on Apple’s Classical app, and am reminded why I dislike Solti’s Ring Cycle.

[lowbeyonder]

We have gone to Vienna and we have returned. We saw opera, we went to museums, we saw more opera, we visited Bratislava, we saw _even more_ opera, we drank beer and ate wiener schnitzel, and finally we dropped in for a bit of opera.

Instagram highlight reel, featuring parks, dogs, and fancy outfits:

A proper photo album will be up when I've curated it.