#Revenge Rapist Jason Todd

[dukeofthomas]

Why Jason Todd doesn't believe in Batman's idea of ''justice'', or his way of doing things.

[misrepresentedmorallygrey]

PROPAGANDA

Jason Todd

Jason is as someone else put it succinctly "a mass-murdering terrorist and tax-evader". He does evil, the story constantly condemns him as evil and sinful and thuggish and stupid and uneducated and overemotional. He does have a lower and more selective kill count than Luke Skywalker, John Wick, Disney Mulan, etc. So you got part of the fandom writing an annoying flood of fan fiction about him being a warm soft nice guy skipping through the daisies with his fam (hey have fun, guys). Then you got another side picking out the worst ex-canon comics for him (while they ignore the worst ex-canon comics for their own fave characters i.e. "my fave only did evil because of a mind-control potion, but Jason always chooses to be evil even though the story and the writer himself said he was crazy and broken and suffering from magic insanity")... and accuse him of being a cop (he is a cop-hating cop-killing terrorist murderer criminal thuggy thug thug constantly being hunted by law enforcement in a world bursting to the brim with actual copaganda while the heroes regularly cooperate with police—so many anti-fans are misusing the term copaganda because they hate this fictional character to the point they want to train people to be blind to actual copaganda). Jason is absolutely a villain—and he returned to his hometown when it was a battlefield with hundreds killed in the latest conflict, ruled over by a child-killing torture-enthusiast. War is always wrong and evil, and Jason was raised to be a soldier in that war—and when the promises of justice and safety never came true, he decided to seize power through murder. Jason is evil. He is inarguably a lesser evil than what usually plagues the town. Innocent people are alive because he got his hands dirty. He is such an asshole. People like him should not exist. He shot a 10-year-old in the chest, and nobody not even the 10-year-old cared the next day because it really wasn't a big deal. He was kidnapped by a billionaire with a taste for young boys, and it's literally not a big deal. His crimesagainst fashion are unforgivable tho.

Batman's adopted son and second Robin that got killed by the Joker and came bag to enact a revenge plan by becoming a Gotham drug lord. He had a duffel bag of 8 decapitated heads at some point and planted a bomb on the Batmobile and then got his throat slit by Batman to save the Joker. He stole his older adoptive brother's (first Robin) identity and blew up a high school but he forbade Gotham's drug rings from selling to children and actually became an anti-hero in Gotham and killed the people Batman wouldn't (rapists, drug lords, etc.). He attacked his little adoptive brother (third Robin) and beat him to a bloody pulp. He also slept with Batman's baby mama. He raised a fucked up Superman clone with kindness. He has lead teams of Outlaws on multiple occasions that love him. He's on good terms with many (not all) of Gotham's vigilantes.

Listen. I love the guy, I love him dearly, but I feel like people these days are trying to make him like completely justified in everything he did?? And like you can see where he’s coming from, sure, but my man did absolutely beat Tim Drake, a teen, half to death for the crime of being Robin. He’s morally gray! He had decapitated heads in duffle bags! Let my guy be morally gray please stop woobifying him

Jason Todd is regularly stripped of his autonomy in fandom to make him more palatable and “redeemable”. They attribute his legitimate trauma, annger, and pain driven actions to “pit madness” a side effect of the way he was resurrected. Not only that but so many people don’t even know what he actually does when he comes back, it’s like a shitty game of telephone where each person tells the next a slightly altered version of his return and at the end everyone thinks that Jason hates the kid who took up the Robin mantle after him and wants to kill him and that he is mad at Bruce for no reason and all Bruce needs to do is tell Jason that he is loved (despite Jason having a lot of evidence to the contrary) and everything will be all better. His values and beliefs and convictions are treated as invalid and his trauma is something he needs to just get over because it’s inconvenient and harmful to everyone else and doesn’t he know that everyone else was also traumatized by his death?

vigilante who kills people • traumatized as hell • has trouble differentiating between good deeds and selfishness • shot his little brother on the spine • tried to kill his other two brothers • operates under the belief that controlling evil is the only way to help innocents • has an immesurable love for the people of Gotham and really wants them to be happy and safe!! • please for the love of god fandom stop talking about him as if the bad things hes done are forgiveable AND as if the good things he's done don't matter

Gonna be honest even canon misinterprets him. There's no winning. All you need to know about DC universe is that multiple different writers have had a go at writing him and every time he is wildly different which is maybe why people interpret him very differently?? Canon interprets him in a he did everything wrong way a lot of times and fanon interprets him in a he did nothing wrong way because he is blorbo to many, when he is very much someone who did a lot of shit wrong but also had a lot going on, while thats still not an excuse for like, a lot of maiming and murder, and (usually) later in the timeline he is less trigger happy and has evened out from villain to morally grey, his whole "redemption" to being morally grey is usually up to fan interpretation whether or not they're chill with letting him keep murdering bad people or they say no murder in general, and whether or not bats is chill with the whole he keeps murdering people thing since he has a staunch no murder stance. Also!! a lot of people in fanon write in the whole pit insanity thing as a way to excuse a lot of the things he did while in his full on villain era, and like,,, i don't think that was canon??? like i straight up think the whole pit madness thing was made up but a lot of DC canon is wibbly wobbly already so its hard to say. hope this wasn't too word salady but i hope you understand that whenever you are consuming any piece of media, canon or fanon, with this man in it you have literally no idea what you are stumbling into you, you are playing fucking spin the wheel, which flavour of Jason Todd are we reading about today. I will say though, canon does objectively treat him like dogshit and only really brings him back every now and then as a punching bag for Batsy whenever they want to have edgy emo abusive dad bruce wayne because comic writers think found family is for chumps and so is being a good parent and actively resist it with every ounce of their soul :/ so I understand why fanon strays so far away, it's just that fanon also can't seem to agree on the degree of morally grey he is?? idk someone save Jason it's the worst custody battle of the century between canon and fanon.

Miguel O'Hara

he is dj internalized homophobia. he is so so sick in the head

[bruciemilf]

look man. i love jason. you love jason. we all love jason. but the way people talk about him sometimes is genuine death penalty propaganda which is not only concerning but also infuriating. THIS ALSO GOES FOR THE 'yeah i love him but i disagree with the death penalty' PEOPLE. you say you disagree with the death penalty but the way you talk about jason? 'his way is better and more effective in cleaning up gotham' 'he deserves to kill the joker/all those rapists (whom he hasnt killed in canon)/the murderers' 'jason todd is the true saviour and saint of gotham'

While I realize what I'm about to say will take away from Jason's undoubtedly noble intentions, its gotta be said: Jason didn't appeal to murder (at first) because of a justice, he appealed to murder as a rebellion streak.

I don't actually think Jason structured a proper handle of his own methods until he was trained by Talia; initially, It was nothing but revenge on his end. A revenge he deserves, but to a singular man, not at a larger scale.

Jason operated as Robin under Bruce's ideologies and he absorbed said ideologies for a long time! It seems that people forget that for a good period of time, Jason still had the mentality of a 15 year old

The death penalty is an incredibly nuanced and self-personal issue; Jason hasn't developed a strong grip on his morals and his own ideas around justice until after working solo, and Only then he grew into his shoes as a vigilante.

I intensely dislike that ruthless streak applied to him specifically to drug addicts and lower class criminals, because realistically, those are the most vulnerable groups outside the civilians.

When Jason's capability of logical thinking and mercy is erased, you haven't achieved anything past a killing machine, which fans have stated countless times they don't want to see! And they're right to.

Ultimately, Jason's justice is self-made, and he's a protector of the people first; Vigilantism isn't a self serving method, which a lot of people seem to forget

[fancyfade]

Been reading your posts about Jason Todd, which admitedly was kind of hard, and i've found that i agree with a lot of your posts, but maybe because ive start paying attention, i kind divided between the idea that Jason was more interesting before the New 52, and also wishing him to be something else than just a batman villain, it's weird and i don't how to feel about this character, and in kind of curious about something, if you had to make a redemption, or at least a less villanous writing of the character, how would you do it?

okeydokey sorry about leaving this in my inbox for so long, I just genuinely didn't have energy then forgot about it :P

For redemption, I think it could be somewhat difficult but not impossible. I do want to point out that Countdown to Final Crisis (link) kind of had like an arc for him where it seemed like they were maybe leading to him being less supervillain/crime-lord-y, but they swerved at the end. like he was like "actually u know what? never mind." which I think makes sense for him there, b/c its coming right off "not killing this guy I thought was a threat* lead to a universe getting destroyed, so I should always go ahead and kill people if I think it's right."

I recently got another jason ask so putting that here (link) but I think another thing new earth Jason generally suffers from is black and white thinking. like lots of people equate "oh willing to kill" as "more morally gray, less black and white", but all Jason does is find a category of people he thinks it's OK to kill and then kill them, and if people who wouldn't otherwise fall in his category of 'ok to kill' happen to get hurt... that's just how it is. There's not really any nuance in his worldview.

i would have his worldview challenged by maybe having a character who is like a reflection of young him (dad or mom involved in organized crime) get involved in the plot. Jason kills their dad/mom (whoever was involved in crime) and the character wants revenge.

we should also just see jason be genuinely WRONG about being judge-jury-and-executioner. not as in "obviously it's wrong" but as in "he doesn't think a ton before he kills people, generally assumes he's right, so he kills someone he otherwise wouldn't have thought deserved it". I think that'd be an easier way to challenge his worldview than addressing the whole "no one should be extrajudicially murdering people" thing.

Like fandom makes a big deal about it, but Jason does not primarily go after rapists or human traffickers or w/e. he will kill human traffickers if he stumbles across them, as seen in red hood: lost days, but he seeks out people involved in the drug trade and drug dealers. and it's not even "he always kills people who break his 1 rule of don't deal drugs to children". he kills people regardless when it helps him intimidate other crime bosses or when he's done recruiting his organization (link) ... I realize that doesn't segue into a less-villainy-arc but i typed it out so leaving it here :P

anyway so how i'd write the arc is have jason remember his childhood and be forced to confront what he's doing via a character who acts as a parallel to young him, and him killing someone who he thinks wouldn't deserve it just due to a misjudgment at his case. I think it could be interesting if he interacted with Damian and Cass, in that both of them have killed people (cass once, damian a bunch) and then are the more anti-killing superhero guys**. I especially think Damian would be well equipped to be condescending to Jason while trying to poke holes in his logic. But IDK fandom kind of flattens Damian and Cass when Jason is involved so many not.

*as pointed out in that post tho, Jason was pro-killing him out of ignorance, tho, he didn't really know what was going on he just happened to be right.

**at least thats how i interpret the end of the first 6 issues of Robin: son of Batman I realize there are other interpretations for Damian

[ao3feed-brucewayne]

revenge of an undead assassin

by gotthatbrainrot “Oh, joy! We now have two ancient leagues of assassins to deal with plus the Light and the run of the mill baddies. Art, we should’ve retired when we had the chance. Now we’ll just look like assholes if we leave without helping.” Or A Young Justice universe where the All Caste exists. (Takes place in the year before season two begins.) Words: 452, Chapters: 1/?, Language: English Fandoms: DCU, Young Justice (Cartoon) Rating: Teen And Up Audiences Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence Categories: Gen Characters: Jason Todd, Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, Talia al Ghul, Damian Wayne, Ra's al Ghul, Vandal Savage, Klarion (DCU), Artemis Crock, Kaldur'ahm | Jackson Hyde, Kon-El | Conner Kent, M'gann M'orzz, Wally West, Roy Harper, Jade Nguyen, Members of the Team (Young Justice), Justice League (DCU), The Light Members (Young Justice) Relationships: Dick Grayson & Damian Wayne, Dick Grayson & Jason Todd, Jason Todd & Damian Wayne, Tim Drake & Dick Grayson & Jason Todd & Bruce Wayne & Damian Wayne, Talia al Ghul & Jason Todd & Damian Wayne, Tim Drake & Jason Todd Additional Tags: Alternate Universe, All Caste Jason Todd, Jason Todd and Damian Wayne Meet in the League of Assassins, Good Parent Talia al Ghul, Amnesiac Jason Todd, All-Blades (DCU), Revenge, Talia al Ghul is Jason Todd's Parent, Talia al Ghul is Not a Rapist, Dick Grayson Needs a Hug, Bruce Wayne is Bad at Communicating, Tim Drake Needs a Hug, Good Friend Wally West, Protective Artemis Crock, Good Parent Jade Nguyen, Protective M'gann M'orzz, Good Friend Kon-El | Conner Kent, BAMF Kaldur'ahm | Jackson Hyde, Protective Roy Harper, Light Angst, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, BAMF Jason Todd, Other Additional Tags to Be Added via https://ift.tt/2Eydvgo

[principledstarfish]

Catalina Flores (Tarantula): It’s Dick, he wants to meet at the park.

Later:

(Tarantula jumps out of the way of a car, flips driver off)

Driver: Fuck you too, stupid bitch!

Tarantula: (takes step)

[Batmobile slams into Tarantula, she flips all the way over the car and crumples on the pavement]

Later:

[Damian is washing the Batmobile. Jason walks up behind him]

Jason: What’d you hit?

Damian: Tarantula.

Jason: (nods) Don't forget to check for hair behind the grill. Tell Alfred about the windshield.

[benbamboozled]

We’re supposed to go “I think he was too rough on the child p*rn*graphy ring. Why is he so angry at the rapist? Why did he (maybe) kill him? It’s only a rapists :/!”

This!!! This is one of those situations where the thing that the writer is doing to set up Jason being baaaaad says SO MUCH MORE about THEM than the character!!!

Absolutely bonkers levels of “why are you booing??? He’s right!” energy, all with the intent of making Jason unlikable because geniuses thought they should give a team book to a guy who hated the very concept of one half of the team.

absolutely fascinated by jim starlins hatred of robin like… hes not real, jim. and even if he was, hes a 12 yr old boy. he cant hurt you. stop trying to kill him

[redjaybathood]

Jason killing for any bat. Jason killing anyone, for any reason because they hurt a bat. Jason being called in to help deal with a batfam because batfam killed someone and they can't handle it.

I hate it when Jason is shown tracking down Dick or any batfsm's rapist to kill them. Not because I think Jason wouldn't, but because I think he shouldn't. Either the batfam will appreciate it or they won't. If they do, they're hypocrites and if they don't, it's more proof of why Jason is a criminal and no better than the people he kills. At least to them.

As for the helping a bat who killed a person deal, there's usually no prior setting that they batfam have accepted that Jason is a person who will kill certain people. But the moment his history as a murderer has use, they want to exploit it. Not to mention, Jason has never accidentally killed anyone before (except if you count the dude with the immunity. Forgot his name. But I don't count him), which is what happens in the fics I've seen. Every person Jason has killed was meticulously planned. How he deals with that is not the same with how someone deals with an accident that results in a dead henchman.

Jason killing for any bat. Jason killing anyone, for any reason because they hurt a bat. Jason being called in to help deal with a batfam because batfam killed someone and they can't handle it.

At first I considered it a prompt, and I was like, which Bat? Because damn, so many great choices here. As you might have gathered, I love this trope.

In general, why I personally don't find anything wrong with Jason killing someone for someone else... It's based in canon. Not my favorite bit of canon, but it is what it is.

1) Gotham Knights flashback issue - Jason shoots harpoon into the raised hand of a smuggler who's on the brink of killing Barbara. Later, he explains it as "if you get one of us, you're gonna get it" or something like that - I have an exact quote here somewhere but too lazy to look up.

2) Under the Red Hood - "If it had been you he beat to a bloody pulp, if he had taken you from this world, I would've done nothing but search the planet for this pathetic pile of evil death-worshiping garbage and sent him off to Hell!"

3) Task Force Z - yeeting Bane off the roof bc of Alfred.

4) And we need to talk about what happened with Garzonas, and what might have happened with Robbie, and what actually moves Jason here.

This last one is going to be a headcanon, and contradictory to the popular fanon for Jason, and also includes Jason's "always been a killer" characterization from Urban Legends my beloathed - but I'm just illustrating why Jason killing for someone he loves is something that can work.

Old canon: Jason isn't an unreasonable guy. When it comes to personal revenge for him for the first time, it's Two-Face who placed a hit on Willis Todd after Willis went to prison. Two important factors here: Two-Face is responsible and in the eyes if the law Two-Face should bear criminal responsibility, and overall, if the US laws same as where I am, all three (or more) participants: Two-Face as the one who hires the murderer, an intermediary who organises the crime, and the hired killer, all of them should get more time than if they just killed Willis on their own or together.

But! Jason lets Harvey go - more than that, he saves Harvey's life from a tragic accident which would have been Two-Face's own fault.

Well, you will say, Jason let him go because he is better than Harvey, and he's in a good place emotionally, +/-. It just was a shock to his system, finding out that his father's death was a conspiracy and Bruce knew all along. That's why his initial reaction was so violent. But his heart wasn't in it!

Okay, valid take. Moving on.

Garzonas. Or, if you think about it, a series of shitty events.

A series of sex-motivated violent crimes. First, two serial killers: Dumpster Slashers. Then, child porn ring (or it might be after what happened with Gloria, sorry, they were too close in time). Then Garzonas kidnaps and rapes Gloria Stanson for the second time and Jason is too late - he shows up after he hears Gloria screaming. It was already happening. Then it's the aftermath where he's not yet benched! And still continues to investigate violent sexual crimes! And he's only taken off active duty after Bruce discusses it with Alfred, and Alfred shares that Jason stopped talking about his mother but Alfred saw him looking at her photo and crying.

So the prevalent fanon is that Jason is a victim of sexual abuse and sex trafficking. Which I get. There's no really another way of interpreting Bruce's posthumous message where he's like "this one secret you shouldn't have kept; I'm sorry I made you do it, it fucked you up". And then what he told Mia, also a victim of child sex trafficking, this time canonical for 100%, and it was something like, "Me and you have the same experience of doing what we have to survive". This plus Jason having 3 main triggers: children in danger, sexual violence, and drug trafficking, - it all adds up to Jason being a victim himself. And I get it!

But before Garzonas, now we got Jason on-page killing another guy, Robbie. Robbie is Catherine's drug dealer. He is shown leaving their apartment, it's hinted that Catherine traded sexual favors and maybe not consensually - in any case with drugs being involved consent is dubious here. And that's who is Jason's first victim in the current canon, insomuch that Urban Legends is canon.

So. My take on this all is, yeah, Jason is a victim. But it's not and never was about him. He's never taking revenge for himself. It's always for other people. It's not even revenge, it's protection. He, personally, doesn't need protection after he becomes Robin - he is fucking magic now, he has the training, he has Batman at his side, he has Bruce Wayne and his money and social clout - he's untouchable. So why then? Well. Robbie was him protecting Catherine. Garzonas - if Jason pushed him, and that's a big if - was protecting other girls back in Bogatago, because it's clear that Garzonas is a serial rapist and never going to stop.

Even with Barabara and the incident on a ship, Jason was protecting her. He framed it in a bad way, though.

There, so far, are three revenge killings he planned or considered or actually had done: 1) Two-Face, tried and changed his mind; 2) Bruce - a "what if", not actually done it except in DitF movie (you can count it or not); 3) Bane. Bane is the only current comic continuity revenge killing that Jason actually had done, and with Bane being in Task Force Z - already dead, and functionally undead and able to be brought back at any point of time - it's not that much of a murder.

So yeah, Jason is not killing for revenge, he's killing to protect others.

At least it's how I see it, but you of course feel free to interpret it however you like. But yeah, Jason killing to protect a member of Batfam? Basically my jam. Yes, even if they won't appreciate it.

With revenge killing, it's slightly more difficult but I see it in situations like Jason killing Black Mask after he kills Stephanie. Tarantula is more like fandom's wish-fulfilment, we ain't got any decent resolution to that person raping Dick on a roof and making him complicit in a murder. Fandom needs to find some catharsis for that, and killing rapists could be cathartic in fiction. Rape revenge flicks are a genre of its own for a reason. Not without issues, of course. But the issue isn't in the gruesome revenge murders per se. More about it in Melina Pendulum's "Rape Revenge & Promising Young Woman| Realism vs Catharsis"

But basically. If Jason finds out about what happened and Tarantula is somewhere close, somewhere still posing a danger to Dick? Even if it's just Dick's mental state? Hell yeah, she's going down. Hell yeah, it is not going to actually help Dick, and Dick won't be grateful for that to Jason. Hell yeah, I would actually read the shit out of this, if it's not written as something I already have read like a dozen times (problem with tropes is, even if it's something you hold dear to your heart, some variation is still encouraged; the execution of a trope still should feel uniquely yours when you write it. Does it make sense?)

A little aside: Oh, a kingdom for a story where Jason fucking Todd goes against Darkseid in the aftermath of Bruce's death. Oh boy. One of these days I'm going to actually read that arc, and then Darkseid is toast. I can promise you that. Sorry, this was random, but basically: it's me wanting to replace Battle for the Cowl with something less "Jason went batshit bc daddy issues" + a callback to Under Red Hood and Jason is keeping his promise + BAMF!Jason killing a god-level villain, what can I say? And if Bruce or anyone is going to be butt-hurt over Darkseid, it's not about them, you know? (And doubt that they will)

I hate it when Jason is shown tracking down Dick or any batfsm's rapist to kill them. Not because I think Jason wouldn't, but because I think he shouldn't. Either the batfam will appreciate it or they won't. If they do, they're hypocrites and if they don't, it's more proof of why Jason is a criminal and no better than the people he kills. At least to them.

Back to the ask. What was mentioned specifically was a rape-revenge killing. So it would be more understandable/IC if Batfam reacts badly to it - like, back to Dick, with Tarantula killing the, ughhh, I forgot the name, but you know the guy; part of Dick's trauma is that he feels at fault here. He feels he let it happen. He wanted it to happen and it happened and he didn't stop it, so. That's fucking him up. And it would totally fuck him up if it's happening again with Jason killing Tarantula. So yeah! He won't react great!

Look, people, especially Jason antis, love to harp that murder of fictional villains is bad, yadda yadda yadda, well. That would actually show this. Unlike their "Um murder is bad because it's murder and if you don't understand it, you're dumber than a fifth-grader" - screw those people, honestly. But the least they could do is show why it could be bad to kill rapists. For example, if that's objectively not something the victim wants or what would help them - yeah, I could buy it. I won't, like, enjoy reading this. But I will respect it.

Obligatory disclaimer: I do not support revenge murders irl.

(I also do not support an idea of putting a child into a crime-fighting situation, just to be clear where I am on fiction vs reality scale)

As for the helping a bat who killed a person deal, there's usually no prior setting that they batfam have accepted that Jason is a person who will kill certain people. But the moment his history as a murderer has use, they want to exploit it. Not to mention, Jason has never accidentally killed anyone before (except if you count the dude with the immunity. Forgot his name. But I don't count him), which is what happens in the fics I've seen. Every person Jason has killed was meticulously planned. How he deals with that is not the same with how someone deals with an accident that results in a dead henchman.

Okay, so here's where you lost me. I only know 2 fics where a Batfam member kills someone and Jason helps them. One with Dick and one with Tim. And they were great, from a literary perspective. I totally believe that in each of these stories, it's plausible that Dick and Tim went for the kill. And I totally get them calling Jason - I mean, who are you gonna call in a situation like this? A person who you trust and who will bury a body with you. Jason is this person.

But boy did Dick and Tim go off the rails in those stories. I am honestly feeling sorry for them. But again, plausible. If they were driven to murder someone, they're probably a mess. Yeah, they totally can't handle it.

And in both cases, Jason is already a known and accepted killer in Batfam. More or less.

And okay, with your description, I am a bit lost. Is Jason a known killer in those fics you read, or is it the first time he kills anyone and it's an accident? Or is it that the Batfam member who killed someone by accident? And it has to be treated differently than Jason's premeditated murder? Basically, I need to read those fics to tell you my verdict. Feel free to message me if you want to discuss it further.

[testingcheats0n]

the thing about the jason todd vs bruce wayne moral debate (???) is that i agree with fanon!jason's idea of killing rapists and child molesters , and actually trying to better Gotham from the 'inside' of the criminal world with methods that bruce wouldn't necessarily agree with... for some reason? The problem is that:

1. It's fanon and canon!Jason has been doing all kinds of bs that actually just perpetuates the cycle of violence and just being a mass murderer with no morals because he died (and other characters did too but they didn't start killing people)

2. Just because it's morally correct to kill certain problems of society it doesn't mean that it's easy, or that people should subject themselves to something like that or they're just as bad as actual abusers aka stop trying to make Batman into a murderer. It's a fine line in need of ~nuance~.

3. People turn it into a bizarrely edgy revenge fantasy, and it's so mean. Why? Especially when it's to turn bruce into something unrecognizable, like 'oh he would be so mad if Gotham actually got better' like girl?? what?

[night-fallz]

Jason Todd x Avengers Crossover

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Ao3 // Wattpad

previous II next

Unexpected (part 2)

Two days have passed since Clint was saved by Jason. And for some reason, he still can't get the vigilante out of his mind.

Natasha teased him about it but he knows that if she sees Jason in action, she would be intrigued as well.

The way he fought was mesmerizing. Every bullet that was shot was so precisely aimed that the wounds weren't deadly.

Sure it knocked them out, but they weren't gonna die.

That form of marksmanship was only earned through years of hard work. And Clint's worked with Bucky enough times to know that Jason somehow predicted the next move of the attackers, aiming at the non-lethal body parts.

He has a feeling that Bucky and Jason would make an incredible duo.

Which is why he needs them to meet.

Clint doesn't usually do this but the more he thought about the bucket-wearing vigilante, the higher his list of questions got.

He took out his phone, leaning against the couch as he searched for the man that saved him.

vigilante wearing red bucket

He scrolled through google trying to find a decent article on the guy.

After thirty whole minutes of barely finding information, Clint wanted to throw his phone across the room. So far, all he's figured out was that Jason's territory was in Gotham and that his vigilante name is 'Red Hood'.

Which was... creative in a way?

At least it wasn't 'Red Bucket' or 'Bucket Head' or anything like that. It was definitely better than 'Green Arrow'.

After another failed search, he decided to finally give up. There was nothing about Red Hood. All the articles were mainly about Batman, Nightwing, a restaurant place, and a Robin!

He groaned and put his face in his hands. He doesn't care about those overrated heroes, he wants to find out more about Red Hood.

The guy was so cool... he wonders why there were barely any pieces written about him. The few sentences that he's read about the vigilante almost always depicted him in a bad light.

Which was honestly unfair.

He stared at his phone, contemplating on whether or not he should ask Natasha.

On the positive side, he knows that the assassin would have information on Red Hood. Natasha has information on everyone.

But...

Clint didn't want Natasha to tease him even more! If she keeps up with the sarcastic comments then the other Avengers would be curious. And curious Avengers meant nosy people.

He felt himself shiver, really nosy people.

He swears that if he had a sister— older or younger, they would act exactly like how Natasha was acting right now.

He could practically imagine the smirk she was wearing on her face when she picked up.

"Hey, Clint." she casually greeted, "How are you?"

He refrained from gritting his teeth, "I'm doing good." he paused, eyes closing as he took a breath in, this hurt to admit. "I need your help."

"I know."

"What do you know about the Red Hood?"

"The Red Hood?" she hummed under her breath, "Let's see."

Clint heard her moving things around, then he could distinctly hear the noise of paper being flipped. "Do you just have documents of random vigilantes lying around your room?" he couldn't help but ask. "Is this an assassin thing?"

Does Bucky do this too?

"I'm getting you the information you need." she reminded, "How I keep track of the data I have is none of your business."

"Okay, okay." he surrendered, a smile making its way onto his face. "But why don't you just keep it on a computer? Wouldn't that make things easier for you?"

She ignored his question, "Red Hood is an excellent marksman," she stated. "He made his debut as a crime lord by showing a bunch of people a duffel bag filled with the heads of notorious criminals."

Clint let out a whistle, "That is an intense introduction. He's even better than I thought he would be."

"Yeah," Natasha agreed. "He's easily one of the most dangerous and capable vigilantes in Gotham. In a matter of months, he's managed to bring crime down Crime Alley by at least fifty percent. Something that Batman himself, couldn't do. His methods were vicious, but they worked. Extremely well. He's killed a lot of child molesters, human traffickers, and rapists."

Even though Natasha couldn't see him, he tilted his head to the side, biting the inside of his cheek. Clint could care less about what methods Jason used. If they worked, they worked. And it's not like those criminals didn't deserve it. It's just-

Killing takes a lot out of you. Especially when you're young. Clint would know.

He had no doubt in his head that Jason was an incredible fighter. Not to mention that he was also huge— in both height and muscle.

He can see why he has a majority of Gotham fooled.

But, for about a minute, after they won against the ninjas, Jason removed his helmet in order to get a breath of fresh air.

A mask might've been covering his eyes, but Clint's been in the vigilante business for years now. He remembers clear as day, just how young the vigilante looked under the sun.

When Clint first started, he was thankful that he had Natasha to talk to whenever things got hard. Whenever he felt guilty for taking someone's life. No matter how much they deserved it.

Hell, he's still thankful for Natasha now. Without her, Clint would probably be dead. His body found bleeding out in an abandoned area, a neat row of scars on his thighs and arms.

He hopes that Jason has a friend like Natasha. Someone who'd be there for him no matter what. Someone who'd remind him that he was worth it. That he was loved.

Cause if not, then there is no way that the kid is okay.

Natasha's sharp voice interrupted his thoughts, "That was a few years ago. As far as I know, he doesn't kill anymore. The farthest that Hood would go now would be to permanently cripple someone. And even then, he would only do that when the person did something unforgivable."

After a few seconds of silence, Clint opened his mouth. "Is that it?" he couldn't help but question.

"Nope," Natasha admitted. "But it's all I'm willing to tell you."

"Fine then," he smirked. "Keep your assassiny secrets. I got more than I expected anyways."

"What did you get yourself into, Clint? Why all the sudden interest in him? Why all the sudden interest in a vigilante in Gotham?"

He knows that Natasha was just looking out for him. She was worried. "Do you remember a few days ago when I was saved by this Jason guy?" he asked.

"Yeah? You've been talking about him nonstop. He saved your ass and you gave him your number." she paused before adding, "Your private one."

He nodded, "Yeah. Well, he's the Red Hood."

"You're kidding."

"Nope. I searched him up and he had the same costume and everything."

"And he actually said that his name was Jason?"

"Yep." he tried to casually say, "It's probably cause Jason's a popular name and stuff."

"Maybe." Natasha hesitantly agreed, "But anyway, since you gave him your number, I think you should know that I've always wanted to meet him so if he texts you soon..."

Her voice trailed off and Clint couldn't hold in his sigh, "Yeah, yeah. I'll arrange a meet-up or whatever."

Her voice automatically brightened, "Actually?"

The corner of his mouth lifted, "Sure. But I wanted to introduce him to Bucky first."

Natasha made a shocked sound of betrayal, "Wha- but Clint!" she whined, "I'm the one who's asking. Not him."

"I know."

It took everything in him to stop the laugh from escaping his mouth.

Complaints about how unfair Clint was being made their way onto his ears and he relished each and every one of them. It wasn't often that he had something Natasha wanted.

Revenge was sweet.

After a few minutes, he let out an incredibly fake gasp. "Sorry, Natasha. I gotta go. I have a kitchen emergency."

"What the fuck, Clint." she demanded, "You don't even know how to cook. Remember the omelet incident? What emerg-"

He hung up.

Clint's definitely going to regret ending the call later. He knows it.

But right now, he could care less.

He has something Natasha wants, so she won't murder him.

... hopefully.

He hopes that he runs into the vigilante soon. Jason was cool and pretty fun to talk to. Clint definitely won't mind fighting at Red Hood's side once more.

They worked really well together.

While they were fighting, he knew that Jason was gonna have his back. He knew that Jason wasn't gonna let him get hurt. It was weird, considering that was the first encounter he's ever had with him.

He doesn't know when Jason is gonna decide to use his number, but he hopes that it'll be soon.

He has questions. And whenever Jason was ready, Clint hopes that he can answer.

Starting with the one that's been clouding his head; why did the Red Hood stop killing?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

notes:

okay, I didn’t expect to write a chapter this soon. but reading all the comments you guys left on the previous chapter motivated me. to be honest, I didn’t expect this fanfic to get as many hits as it did.

I don’t know when I’m planning on posting this chapter but right now, my goal is to write as much as I can.

I also don’t know exactly how busy my sophomore year of high school will be, but I feel like it’s better to be safe than sorry. Especially if I make the school volleyball team.

I finished writing this chapter on August 8th, and I have tryouts on the 9th through the 11th from 4-6 pm. (wish me luck!)

like always, please, please, please, leave a comment. i love reading them and they just motivate me so much! Whenever I get author’s block, I just re-read them and they help so, so much. If you don’t wanna leave a comment, that’s fine. If you liked this fanfic, please hit that kudos button though.

and if you just wanna chat or if you want to request any ideas or prompts, just message me here.

ooh, and if there’s anything specific you want to read in this series, please tell me. It never hurts to have any extra ideas. plus, I really want to make this fic more enjoyable for everyone.

[littleeyesofpallas]

I tend to have a lot of beef with how Jason's return and redemption and acceptance back into hero status went... I don't hold it against anyone in particular, the fact the no one really knew what they were doing with him or where he'd end up as they were writing at the time wasnt their fault and didnt help. But the basic issue remains that Jason came back as a murderous villain, only barely pivoted into antihero for brief really bad stint, and then veered pretty hard to get to hero-but-guns... and ever since theyve really just ignored those first two things. And frequently I toy around with writing scenarios that smooth those nebulous areas over a little, and honestly you know what would make a great Jason Todd story?  Just a rehash of I Saw the Devil, but fixing some of the thematic problems the movie had.  To clarify:

In I Saw the Devil, a serial rapist and murderer kills the fiance of a Korean NIS detective, but after a brief investigation the detective catches up to the murderer, and in a climactic struggle beats the murderer unconscious…  Then the murderer wakes up…  After hitchhiking his way back to a city, and treating some of his wounds the murderer tries to sexually assault a nurse at which point the detective kicks in the door like the koolaid man and beats the extremely confused murderer within an inch of his life again.  Then he explains that he’s just going to keep doing this, and lets the murderer go again.

… But here’s where the movie falls apart for me.  In it the murderer stays prettymuch totally unrepentant and in fact continues to rack up marks against him as a dirt bag when he goes to get help from other serial killers, betrays them, and continues to murder random people along the way.

I’d have liked to have seen him crack under the pressure and while he’s obviously not in a position to be reformed or repent for his crimes, I was really really expecting a scene where the murderer stops trying to fight back and starts only trying to escape and eventually gets caught and just begs for his life.  Not turning him into the “good guy” or innocent, but pathetic enough that it becomes clear that the hero and villain have both entered into a gray area, where the hero and audience need to really step back and consider at what point does the license to dispense justice with extreme prejudice expire?

And really that just feels like it’d make for a great retroactive story on Jason’s turning point from his initial return as Red Hood back to a hero.  Let him be a gang lord, let him shoot a bunch of people in cold blood (or sever their heads and stuff them in a bag just to make an entrance) and yeah let him walk out the other side of things a “hero” in some sense…  but make the journey between the two make some kind of sense.  Let him double-down on his philosophy that Gotham will always be a hive of scum and villainy and that Bruce needs to learn to accept that and roll with it, so he’s down with the theft, with the drug trafficking, with the murder, but under his watch and mediation…. and then let him learn that there’s a limit to all that, even for him.  Let him find his own line that he won’t cross.  His own One Rule.  More over let him do it in a way that doesn’t use hiding behind his victim-hood as if it’s an excuse; as if his villainy is just some kind of misunderstood and repressed lashing out, and not meticulous, intelligent, and premeditated.  And let his victimization at the hands of the Joker and Gotham at large be what drives him not what redeems him.  Let him think he knows what needs to be done, and think he knows what he’s capable of, and then let him find out he’s wrong.

And most importantly, let us watch it happen in real time.

Also, go watch I Saw the Devil, it’s a good revenge thriller.

[herstarburststories]

the night hurt us.

A/N: Hey. Hope you guys like it. I had to keep Jason from calling his S/O "doll" and similarities.

Also, we hurt in the night, so the night hurt us back and we hurt the night, and so the night hurt us back are so related somehow.

Beta is @lyss-91, thanks.

Request: Helloo, I was wondering if I could request a Jason Todd (Titans) where y/n and him are working together and one of them gets hurt badly leading to confessions (and possibly mild smut)?? Love your writing!! Thank you x

Disclaimer: mild smut (I haven't write any related to smut so it may be a not so good part), the usual violence.

━─┈ ✧

"Easy like that? The big bad bat let you go chasing your childhood idol?" You asked while punched another bag of ribs, making the man grow in pain. "I'm sorry. That wasn't the kind of moan you were expecting tonight?" You questioned rhetorically, disgust almost dripping from your tongue, so different of your tone just seconds ago.

"Yeah. Kind of. I need to hand him some fills. People he used to know are dying." Jason, or Robin as he was dressed of, explained and kicked the rapist's accomplice calf muscle which leaded him to fall on the ground. His face was already painted in blood, but neither of you cared. By how you saw it, he deserved it. Even worse. What kind of monster rapes 3 women in one week? Surely a type that won't be able to speak for months. "The police couldn't do their job as usual and they crawled to us. Batman told me to go after him with the information as soon as he noticed. He knew I wanted to meet the old Robin."

Jason's man stood up again, apparently not tired of getting hurt over and over again. Well, that wasn't the worst thing that Todd would deal with. In fact, beating up a freaking scoundrel constantly was very appreciated by him.

"Combine business with pleasure. Try not to pester him for an autograph." You teased him, a delighted smile on your lips. Jason lived for reading about Robin when he was younger, suddenly he became Robin himself and now the boy was going to actually met the first person who wore his cape. As you smacked the man you were fighting's jaw from the down to the top, a kind of selfish thinking invaded your head. "How long you will be gone?"

"Two days. A week if most." He shrugged, not really paying attention to that. Another punch, Robin huffed. "You are making it way too easy, man. But could I expected from a tool who covers his friends for fucking raping woman, huh?" Jason threw him against a vehicle, your car, often beating up his face. "Are you missing me already?"

"Please. It will be the best days of my life." You resorted his innocent, usual provocation. "And be careful with my car. I don't want his blood all over my baby." Hiding your early melancholy for being apart from home, even just for a little amount of time, you finished your criminal by giving him a knee against his teeth. Your lips opening way for the imagine of your own teeth, a proud smile giving in. Unlike him, there was nothing brooke inside your mouth. "Touch a woman one more time and what just happened will feel like a fucking carnival compared to what we are going go make you go through." You used the same offensive expression he'd call the girl who had ran away at the begging of this combat.

"That's hot." Jason smirked, referring to how you would handle that situation and put that asshole in his place, right after he stopped the hitting circle, throwing the unconscious man away. You rolled your eyes, checking if the man was still awake, your back facing Robin. Time for you to call the police, if the neighborhood hadn't yet. Since there was no sound of sirens, the answer must be negative. You couldn't say it was surprisingly. After all, that was Gotham. People didn't want to mess with maskered psychos or anyone else, to be exactly. "You know, you could co—"

Jason's speech was interrupted by a grunt. You recognized this hoarse voice, retraing his pain as if it was some sort of overload weakness. You worked with him on partner patrols for long enough to know how a hurt him sounded like. Yet you'd never hear that, a grunt substituted by a rigid shout. He was in more pain than you'd ever be conscious of.

When you turned around, ready to face what made your heart throbbing, the man who Robin fought was found with such a sharpy penknife embed in Jason's back. Before he'd attack him from the back again, you jumped his direction, your injured hand from the previously disturbance grabbing a knife to situate that on his skin. Which was made only a few seconds later, you stabbed his stomach twice and then rested your white weapon against his used hand to harm your friend. His whinny screaming got you even angrier.

"Shut the hell up. At least I didn't attack you from behind like a coward."  You growled, putting your knife back inside your night uniform, kneeling down beside Jason. "Robin, are you okay? Fuck, of course you are not okay. I'll call Alfred, just help me to get you in the car." You said exasperated. You never dealt with a situation like this. Sure, you did hurt a couple of bad people so bad they needed to rush to the hospital, even a come once. Through they were horrible human beings, your sense of revenge for the ones who couldn't get it themselves always louder than that tiny guilty part. You didn't care. Otherwise, you were in front of a bleeding Jason who couldn't even stand up straight this time. It was different.

Everything with him as different.

You put his hands over your shoulders while you held his torso, walking baby steps, calm and soft, there was no need to hurt him even more, when both of you attempted to reach the car. Ultimately, you opened the car's door and put Jason in, trying to be as gentle as you possible could.

"Thought you didn't want blood all over your precious car." His weak voice tried a joke, although it came out as coughs and drops of blood.

"For once in your life, Jason. Please shut up. For your own good." You replied, the tone coming out of your throat sounded fragile, almost like the closest way you'd be from begging.

"Come on, (Y/N). You are no fun. I'll be okay to rip off more stupids soon and—" He noticed your state, but didn't think it was serious. You were worried. As much as it pleased him a lot, it wasn't uncommon for someone to be a trembling mess when their friend was bleeding on teir automobile.

"Jason, please. If not for yourself, for me." After closing the back door, you went to the driver's place, sitting there and turning on your car. Jason was dizzy, in pain and feeling what he'd assume was his heart beating trough his whole body as he pressed his hand against the wound to keep blood from slipping away, but that scene was clear as looking at the sun: you, sat down, eyelids pressed together hardly, fingernails cutting part of your steering wheel because of how strongly you were holding it. That was just a microsecond before you recovered your mind and opened your fearless (Y/E/C) orbs, — a piece of fear inside them, pictures by non poured particles of water, tears of pure worry that you didn't let cross the line between your cheeks and the exterior world. — enlaced with his image on the car's prismatic rear-view mirror and speed up to the Batcave. Fortunately, one of your strong sides from your training were reflexes, so you were able to watch Jason, the street and call Alfred at the same time, the only thing you couldn't control, yet were so desperately making an effort to, were how your head ached from keeping tears, how your sobs choked you up, how you denied any thought on how may Jason didn't make it. Because he needed to. Gotham needed him to. You needed him to.

"Don't worry, Miss (Y/N). Master Jason will be recuperated soon." Alfred announced, taking off his dirty gloves, covered be the current Robin's blood, other liquids of his organism and medical things that you couldn't pay attention to. "Master Bruce will be here as soon as he can."

"Joker causing trouble again?" You'd ask, glancing an all tied up Jason. He looked better, indeed. Healthier. Alfread was such a lifesaver as he always had been, since Bruce was just a kid, even before Bruce was even born. For now, you were just grateful for him to be here.

"I am afraid so."

"Thank you, Alfred." You thanked him with a warm smile. He just nodded, grabbing his surgical tray.

"I will bring you some tea. And then let me exanimate you." Didn't sound like a question to your ears, because it wasn't. You pouted like a kid, but it didn't matter. Alfred had enough work on Jason, and calming you down while helping him. He didn't need to be busier now.

"Alfred."

"Please, Miss (Y/N)." You sighed, aware that would be a helpless cause. After all, some band-aids sounded good at this point.

"Okay." Then, Alfred left. And you are back to glaring Jason. Blood a hundred per cent inside him, exactly where it was supposed to be. His features calm, as if he was getting the rest he'd be rooting for. You put your hand above his, caressing it.

"I'm sorry, (Y/N)." A quiet voice spoke, and you raised your head, looking into his green eyes. "For worrying you."

"Jason, you are the one in this room who just got a kind of surgery or medical preceding, I don't care." You shook your head. The image of Jason between life and dead playing in your head like a sick game. "The fact is, you were the one dying. You shouldn't apologize."

"It was a stupid mistake. I failed somehow I shouldn't have." You took a deep breath, trying to contain yourself. Here he was again, too worried about his performance to even think about his life.

"Jason, you didn't fail. Everyone makes mistakes. Batman won't be disappointed on you and neither should you. Next time, watch your back. Be sure the idiot isn't up. You already know it, don't beat yourself for this slide. Just..." He looked down, facing your hand on his, such a beautiful contrast. The look in your eyes didn't leave his memories, how horrified you were. Adding the fact that Jason wasn't able to do nothing about it, that was what hurt the most. Not that fucking stab, or the stitches Alfred would use to fix him. What mattered were you. How scared you were. You needed him by your side and he wasn't there. "Just be happy that you are here. Alive. With me."

He looked up to you, his arm moving to place his hand on your face. Some annoying pain showed up, but he didn't mind. You leaned in to help him, your own hand making its way to his neck while the other one worked as your support, holding on his sretcher.

"I swear I won't worry you like that anymore." Jason caressed your chin. For the first time, you let a solitary tear fall down your cheek, which he quickly still delicate washed away. "I hate to see you cry, especially about me. I told you I would be okay. What's a stupid bastard against the fucking Robin?"

"Holy shit, I can't believe I'm in love with such an idiot." You huffed, closing your eyes, kind afraid of what he was going to answer.

"You better believe it. Because I'm an idiot and I'm also in love with you." He pulled you closer as your eyes opened. His finger stroking your skin, both smiling lips getting closer, closer, closer...

No one knows who started it, but a kiss emerged from a long time of secret feelings. Calm at first, just two young people trying to figure out how it felt to be adored, to be loved, to feel. It was like home itself, after waiting so long in a trip, you finally got where you knew that was your soul's place. But things started to get a little too touchy.

"Come here." Jason whispered between kisses, pulling you to the medical bed he was laid on.

"I don't wanna hurt you." You intercepted, biting his neck while both tried to regain oxygen.

"That's the last thing you will do." He said, his hands going down on your back. You grinned and got in the stretcher, carefully to not hurt him more.

Jason smiled openly, grabbing your butt as you came back to his lips. Your hand coming inside his shirt to touch his well defined abdomen. How long have you been dreaming about this? Being able to touch him regardless, hearing his moans because of how good you made him feel. And by the way he possessively hold your ass, you could tell he felt just the same. Sitting on his lap, it was obvious that Jason was getting very excited with your little foreplay. His kiss got rougher, you pressed your clothed parts together only to get that dense voice to moan your name.

Until another voice said your name.

"Miss (Y/N), could you get off Master Jason? And master Jason, let go off Miss (Y/N), please." Alfred walked in and you jumped off Jason scared, falling to the ground. Needless to say your soon to be boyfriend laughed his ass off after checking up you were okay.

[societysonlooker]

That said

Op still has a point

Prime example: The Outlaws.

Yes, Jason came back from the dead completely fucking pit mad and had a LOT of issues to deal with. Since then, hes curbed his behavior a LOT, but still kills. He doesnt when he doesnt "have" to, and while he doesnt have an incredibly strong guidline to "who is ok to kill and who isnt", he doesnt go murder-happy (most the time). His idea of who "deserves" to die is who he thinks there's no chance to get them to stop hurting others. He doesn't shoot convenience store thiefs point blank and call it a day, but he does do that to would be rapists, kingpins, and hard dealers. He has, both with help and alone, taken down multiple high-profile smuggling rings and cartels for both drugs and weapons, and im pretty sure hes stopped a human trafficking ring or two as well. And, hes kinda right. Batmans victories were kind of revolving door policies on these groups, he could foil their plans, but never stop them. Jason stopped them, even though it took decimating their ranks. A born bred and raised gothamite, Jason knows exactly what this will do to the gotham underbelly, and is just happy that it means fewer kids will be left to die because of shitty circumstance like he was. These days, he mostly abides by bats no kill rule, but its mostly when hes working with other bats, and really just a "I promise not to aim for their head" kinda deal, not a "absolutely will never kill" kinda deal. He stops being pit mad psycho, batsie lets him do his thing. And really, the other bats don't care nearly as much as Bruce does. Hell, a number of them have blood on their hands as well. Jason Todd kills because he believes what hes doing is right, and a number of his family dont outright disagree with him. Hell, nightwing has outright said that he sees the work Jason does as being hero work, and he's actually pretty proud of him. Its honestly their sweetest brother moment is the entirety of DC outside of their stints on Titans together but hey who's keeping track of DC actually treating the batfam like a fam pftttttt not me what

Artemis operates similarly. She doesnt kill random low-threat criminals, but she doesn't hesitate when killing to protect others, such as her people in bana-mighdall.

And Arsenal... well, Roy broke part of reason 6, didn't he? He began to kill to get revenge for the death of his daughter. Which, yeah. Understandable. Batman take notes, hahaha except seriously, why is the joker still fucking breathing?. And while he's not opposed to killing, its not like he does it for fun. Like Jason and Artemis, he kills to protect people.

Thise are the outlaws, but you know who else kills without much concern for it? Wonder Woman too. You don't think of her as a killer, but she has and will continue to kill enemies that pose immediate threats to innocents. Even in her most recent movie she has a kill count. Wonder Woman kills because she wants to protect people, and she has no qualms about it when she does because she has a strong enough sense of self, and a strong enough belief in the goodness of her own morals to not ponder whether or not what she did was a good thing. She was raised to be a soldier and a queen, with certainty and kindness as inherent to her as breathing, and she truly embodies that. To Diana, death happens in war, it is a fact of life. Her only goal is to stop the conflict as quickly as possible, to protect as many people as possible. And thats not to say she kills willy-nilly, she doesn't. When she can avoid it, she does not kill. But sometimes its the only way left she sees, so she does it. She commits to her actions, shoulders them, and lives with them.

Whereas the many of JLA don't kill because of all the aforementioned reasons (but also primarily 1, 2, and 5 to maintain their legitimacy as heroes in the eyes of the world), some heroes don't operate like that. Some heroes don't care/don't NEED to care if they're seen as the hero or just another bad guy, so long as they can do their jobs successfully, they're ok. And some heroes don't care how others perceive them because they have such a strong sense of self and morality that they are confident in their decisions. Jason Todd, Artemis, Arsenal, Wonder Woman, they all kill, for one reason or another. And whether they do it because they accept it as part of the fight and can shoulder it, or already have a shitty sense of self worth and do it because they think no one else can or should, doesn't matter. What matters is that they show the unfortunate truth that whether or not what they're doing is the supremely moral path, they're still doing their jobs, and they're still damned good at it.

And it is a job, most heroes aren't out there cause its fun. Look at Oliver Queen, or Hal Jordan, heroes who do or have had to kill, but struggle with the violence of it every day. Queen was taught to kill, and he does it. But that doesnt mean it doesn't weigh heavy on his shoulders. Prior to being stranded on that fucking island, he couldn't have (physically) hurt a soul anywhere near the way he does as green arrow. Much of the grief between him and arsenal is about arsenals choices to kill, the two cant reach any form of understanding. Hal Jordan once took out the entirety of the green lanterns because of a freak green-ring-power crisis something-or-other (listen I dont read green lantern sue me). And wr can see the emotional toll it takes on him afterwards thriugh his actions and interactions with the JLA and other heroes. Not every hero who kills believes in their moral superiority. Hell, a lot of them DO see themselves as closer to the bad guys then they'd like, but they do it because they also believe its right. As heartbreaking as it is to see on our favorite characters, the internal struggle, the guilt, those are the things that prove their actions aren't in any capacity close to the evil of the villians theyre killing. And do not be mistaken: comic book crime tends to be a LOT less morally grey than irl crime. And when it DOES resemble irl crime (crimes of survival) our heroes are more likely to help then they are to put people in prision.

There are so, so many heroes who refuse to kill for good sound reasons. But there are nearly as many who chose to kill for reasons that are just as sound. And when not sound, effective. And these heroes are proof that that the "If we kill them we're just as bad as they are" argument is a load of fucking bullshit.

Any of the above reasons for not wanting to kill are good fine and valid. But if you honestly believe that killing a mass murderer to protect the citizens of a city from him is just as bad as being said mass murderer, then sorry, but you're fucking wrong. You're saying that the guy who choses to pull the lever in the trolly problem is just as bad as the asshole who strapped the people to the tracks in the first place. And in this scenario, the one person tied to the tracks IS the same guy who tied everyone down. He's not even tied down, just fucking laying there!

Theres a lot of good, morally sound, valid reasons to not kill as a hero. The "it makes us just as bad as they are" argument is not, in fact, fucking one of them.

In conclusion batman suck a dick abt the moral high ground you never had it to begin with. I get not wanting to kill, I do, I really do, but stop lying about the why's

Superheroes that are like “if we kill them we’re just as bad as they are uwu” ? Micro dick energy

[ao3feed-brucewayne]

revenge of an undead assassin

read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/2Eydvgo by gotthatbrainrot “Oh, joy! We now have two ancient leagues of assassins to deal with plus the Light and the run of the mill baddies. Art, we should’ve retired when we had the chance. Now we’ll just look like assholes if we leave without helping.” Or A Young Justice universe where the All Caste exists. (Takes place in the year before season two begins.) Words: 452, Chapters: 1/?, Language: English Fandoms: DCU, Young Justice (Cartoon) Rating: Teen And Up Audiences Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence Categories: Gen Characters: Jason Todd, Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, Talia al Ghul, Damian Wayne, Ra's al Ghul, Vandal Savage, Klarion (DCU), Artemis Crock, Kaldur'ahm | Jackson Hyde, Kon-El | Conner Kent, M'gann M'orzz, Wally West, Roy Harper, Jade Nguyen, Members of the Team (Young Justice), Justice League (DCU), The Light Members (Young Justice) Relationships: Dick Grayson & Damian Wayne, Dick Grayson & Jason Todd, Jason Todd & Damian Wayne, Tim Drake & Dick Grayson & Jason Todd & Bruce Wayne & Damian Wayne, Talia al Ghul & Jason Todd & Damian Wayne, Tim Drake & Jason Todd Additional Tags: Alternate Universe, All Caste Jason Todd, Jason Todd and Damian Wayne Meet in the League of Assassins, Good Parent Talia al Ghul, Amnesiac Jason Todd, All-Blades (DCU), Revenge, Talia al Ghul is Jason Todd's Parent, Talia al Ghul is Not a Rapist, Dick Grayson Needs a Hug, Bruce Wayne is Bad at Communicating, Tim Drake Needs a Hug, Good Friend Wally West, Protective Artemis Crock, Good Parent Jade Nguyen, Protective M'gann M'orzz, Good Friend Kon-El | Conner Kent, BAMF Kaldur'ahm | Jackson Hyde, Protective Roy Harper, Light Angst, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, BAMF Jason Todd, Other Additional Tags to Be Added read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/2Eydvgo

[ao3feed-brucewayne]

The Spark That Burns

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/MNTafX2

by TheDarkLadyOfTheNight

After your mother's death, you move in with your biological father, Bruce Wayne. Your brothers are assholes and your 'father' is distant, all with secrets to keep. But you have more than a few secrets to keep yourself, and a mission more important than anything. Your enemies are strong, so for now you will lay low and try to fit in as you grow your strength. Vengeance seems to run in the family.

Words: 363, Chapters: 1/?, Language: English

Series: Part 1 of A Flame Against The Night

Fandoms: Batman - All Media Types

Rating: Teen And Up Audiences

Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence

Characters: Bruce Wayne, Original Female Character(s), Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Alfred Pennyworth, Damian Wayne, Dick Grayson, Stephanie Brown, Barbara Gordon, Reader, Talia al Ghul, You

Relationships: Batfamily Members (DCU) & Reader

Additional Tags: Batfamily (DCU), Jason Todd is Red Hood, Reader Has Powers, Angst, Gotham City is Terrible, Jason Todd is good, Revenge, Self-Hatred, Emotional Manipulation, Crying, Fluff and Angst, Dick Grayson Tries to Be a Good Older Sibling, Damian Wayne is a Little Shit, but we love him, Bruce Wayne is Bad at Relationships, No beta: we die like Jason, Reader-Insert, Talia al Ghul is Not a Rapist, Meditation

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/MNTafX2

[ao3feed-brucewayne]

The Spark That Burns

by TheDarkLadyOfTheNight

After your mother's death, you move in with your biological father, Bruce Wayne. Your brothers are assholes and your 'father' is distant, all with secrets to keep. But you have more than a few secrets to keep yourself, and a mission more important than anything. Your enemies are strong, so for now you will lay low and try to fit in as you grow your strength. Vengeance seems to run in the family.

Words: 363, Chapters: 1/?, Language: English

Series: Part 1 of A Flame Against The Night

Fandoms: Batman - All Media Types

Rating: Teen And Up Audiences

Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence

Characters: Bruce Wayne, Original Female Character(s), Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Alfred Pennyworth, Damian Wayne, Dick Grayson, Stephanie Brown, Barbara Gordon, Reader, Talia al Ghul, You

Relationships: Batfamily Members (DCU) & Reader

Additional Tags: Batfamily (DCU), Jason Todd is Red Hood, Reader Has Powers, Angst, Gotham City is Terrible, Jason Todd is good, Revenge, Self-Hatred, Emotional Manipulation, Crying, Fluff and Angst, Dick Grayson Tries to Be a Good Older Sibling, Damian Wayne is a Little Shit, but we love him, Bruce Wayne is Bad at Relationships, No beta: we die like Jason, Reader-Insert, Talia al Ghul is Not a Rapist, Meditation

source https://archiveofourown.org/works/43058748