#Pippin meta

[blackcur-rants]

I just watched the 1970s version of “Pippin” on Amazon Prime (the one with William Katt and Ben Vereen, not the 2013 revival with Matthew James Thomas and Patina Miller) and that whole musical is just a full-on skewering of the whole idea of Great People and Chosen Ones and honestly, it and “She-Ra and the Princesses of Power” have basically the same thematic Cruz for their ending, I.E…

The hero (Pippin/Adora) is brought to their lowest point by everything that’s gone wrong across the course of the play/series and is convinced that the only way to achieve greatness/save the universe is to perform a dramatic act of self-sacrifice that will “set everything right”. However, their love interest with whom they’ve previously had a rocky relationship (Catherine/Catra) comes back to save them from their own self-immolation and the hero finally realises what they truly needed all of this time was love and acceptance from a kindred spirit.

@disregardcanon @dachi-chan25 @lady-asteria @theofficialkai517 @uncleasriel

i feel like there’s something VERY telling about the current culture where we seem to keep circling around the idea of the chosen one not as some actual work of destiny but as piece of manipulation by a malevolent actor who is trying to fuck people over. and that by saying “no” and breaking out of it the “chosen one” is actually saving not only themselves, but others as well

[torchwood-99]

Eowyn and the Hobbits

Eowyn is very thematically tied to the hobbits

While a trained warrior and a member of the royal family, her youth, her gender and lack of battle experience puts her in a subordinate position to many of the other lead heroes, much like the hobbits, due to their stature and lack of martial background are dependant, and therefore at times subordinate, to the rest of the Fellowship.

Eowyn is most specifically tied to Merry. Both of them are to be left behind when the muster leaves for Rohan and when she brings him along with her to battle, you can imagine her seeing her own frustration, her own despair in him, and wishing to do better for him than had been done for her.

They ride together on one horse, and take down a great foe together. They almost become one fighting body, one unit, and the bond between them is deepened by Merry declaring Theoden as like a father, and Eowyn also being Theoden's adopted child.

You see elements of her in the other hobbits as well. Pippin is the youngest hobbit and the one Elrond wishes to stay back, (Eowyn is the also the youngest in her family), so that experience of others wanting to hold them back, keep them confined, is one she shares with Pippin as well.

With Sam, we have Eowyn at the end declaring the wish to love all things that grow, and Faramir planning to grow a garden with her. Sam is perhaps one of the most virtuous (if not the most virtuous) characters in the books, and his love of gardening, of nature and growing things, is used to underline his virtue. To be garderner is, morally, the greatest thing to be in Middle Earth, and when Eowyn finds happiness, and reason for hope and joy, it is Sam's calling she likewise finds herself drawn to.

With Frodo, both of them suffer with depression. Both of them experience moments where they can no longer remember what it is to feel joy, or believe they never will again. They are also bound through the Witch King. Frodo's first really terrible blow of the war is the wound dealt him by the Witch King, and it is that wound which continues to physically torment him after the war. Eowyn, with Merry's assistance, is the one to slay the Witch King. She too suffers physical ramifications of this act, also in her arms, and like Frodo, her suffering and recovery from this physical blow is tied to her mental and physical suffering.

When Frodo and Sam complete their quest, and the Ring is destroyed, everyone in Middle Earth is saved, but we get to see this moment from Faramir and Eowyn's perspective, and we see how this moment is a turning point in Eowyn's healing narrative, especially pertinent, as a fair deal of Eowyn's depression was directly caused by Sauron's servants, Saruman and Grima, actively working to destroy her mental health. Therefore, both Eowyn and Frodo, while taking down enemies that were a threat to everyone, also destroyed an enemy that was a personal foe to the other.

The Scouring of the Shire also emphasises the ties between the hobbits and Eowyn. First, between Eowyn and the hobbits as a whole. Grima, as the king's counsellor and a student of Saruman, was in a position of power over Eowyn, and he used that to prey on her and cause her harm. After Saruman is defeated, and Grima is cast very low, and is tormented by Saruman, he then preys on the hobbits, even eating one of them.

And of course, it is the hobbits who overthrow Saruman and Grima's control, and it is at the hands of a hobbit that Grima finally dies, and Eowyn's tormenter is killed.

Eowyn and the hobbits are all examples of the unexpected, overlooked hero, whose courage and competence is underrated, only to be proved pivotal in times of crisis. And Eowyn and the hobbits all know, by the end of the narrative, that although sometimes battles have to be fought, gardening is a better thing to aspire to.

[fangirl-erdariel]

This isn't terribly important, but just out of curiosity, does anyone happen to know when Tolkien decided to limit surviving half-elves to just Elwing and Eärendil and their descendants (Elrond, Elros, Elrond's children)?

Like, the Hobbit still speaks in general about there being people who had both elves and men among their ancestors, and mentions Elrond as their leader. At least one if not multiple early drafts of the Council of Elrond chapter of LOTR name Erestor not only as half-elven but specifically a descendant of Lúthien. I don't have the relevant volume of HoME at hand to check, but iirc that draft also kinda implies that Erestor isn't the only one of those around, just the only one besides Elrond that's relevant to name just then, but i might be off about that part.

But by the time LOTR is polished to the shape it's published, Tolkien has apparently changed his mind about that, seeing as the published LOTR and appendices only discusses Elrond and Elros as half-elves, and any mention of Erestor's being half-elf (or in any other way related to Lúthien or to Elrond) is gone so that presumably he's been changed into an elf

So my knowledge of when Tolkien decides on the number of half-elves is basically "somewhere between whenever Tolkien wrote that draft for the Rivendell part of the story, and when LOTR was finished", but I'm really curious if anyone knows anything to narrow that down further?

[from-the-coffee-shop-in-edoras]

When Pippin watches all the various companies from the Gondorian outlands arrive at Minas Tirith to help contest the siege, I always get hung up on one particular group that’s described. Along with Imrahil and his knights and Forlong and his axe-bearers and other proud regiments from all corners of the realm, there are “from Lamedon, a few grim hillmen without a captain.” And I always find these hillmen incredibly poignant and moving, and I’m not entirely sure why?

I imagine it’s got something to do with the fact that they have so much less than everyone else. The implication is that they are from somewhere that can spare only a few men total. Somewhere that has no great or charismatic leader to inspire them and ride at their front. Somewhere that the people endure conditions that have already made them grim, even before the siege has begun, because their lives are hard and not particularly joyful. But they don’t use any of that as an excuse not to come and contribute to the greater effort. They have less than everyone else and their contribution is smaller, but they still show up to do their part. They are few but not absent. Grim but not bitter. Leaderless but not without purpose.

I don’t know. Now I think I’m just rambling, but I love those guys and I really hope they made it out alive.

[thefabelmans2022]

did you ever notice how merry doesn't actually volunteer for the quest? pippin is the one who assumes he and merry will go, gandalf vouches for them both, but merry doesn't say a word for the entire encounter. it's a stark difference from his insistence on going with frodo in the conspiracy chapter, and i think it's because he's totally lost his confidence. in the beginning, he's very confident and fully believes he'll be able to lead the group through the old forest to bree with no trouble, and then they all almost die twice basically immediately. notice that when they get to bree, he refuses to go to the prancing pony with the others, deciding instead to stay in their room alone? and then of course he gets attacked by nazgul, which definitely doesn't help matters. i think by the time they get to Rivendell, he no longer believes himself capable of helping frodo. he'll do it, obviously, if frodo or gandalf or elrond or pippin ask him to, but i think he's at a point where he no longer believes he'll be any good.

[nin-varisse]

I have this strong belief that Finrod did not only fuck every major race in middle-earth but that he also produced many bastards during his wild years in Beleriand (as he should). Elven children, half-humans, dwelves and yes also half-hobbits. "HOBBITS?!", you might wonder, "how did you get that idea?!". Well do you remember that bit about the Took family having fairy ancestry?

There was something not hobbit-like about the Tooks.

So I propose to you: Peregrin Took of the house of Finrod.

"But why did no one know about Hobbits then for so many years?" It's Finrod, he probably thought it was a hairless dwarf and didn't want to be rude and address that.

[wordbunch]

sometimes i randomly remember that pippin is the younger brother of a hobbit assassin girlie

[balanceoflightanddark]

"Nonetheless, ease and peace had left this people still curiously tough. They were, if it came to it, difficult to daunt or to kill; and they were, perhaps, so unwearyingly fond of good things not least because they could, when put to it, do without them, and could survive rough handling by grief, foe, or weather in a way that astonished those who did not know them well and looked no further than their bellies and their well-fed faces. Though slow to quarrel, and for sport killing nothing that lived, they were doughty at bay, and at need could still handle arms. They shot well with the bow, for they were keen-eyed and sure at the mark. Not only with bows and arrows. If any Hobbit stooped for a stone, it was well to get quickly under cover, as all trespassing beasts knew well."

-J.R.R Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring, Prologue 1. Concerning Hobbits pgs. 5-6

This paragraph fascinates me for a few reasons. Often in fiction, a long period of peace is often used for explaining why people are so slow to react to a rising threat. That prolonged prosperity dulled the senses and breeds complacency. Indeed, Frodo himself does express some exasperation and almost wishes for a dragon or some evil force to invade the Shire to shake the Hobbits out of their complacency.

Which to some level is true here. It's a known fact that Hobbits like to keep out of the affairs of the "big people". Yet at the same time, even if they want to keep themselves isolated, it doesn't mean the world won't march into the Farthings regardless of what they want. After all, there wasn't a whole lot stopping the Nazgul or Saruman from entering their borders.

Yet at the same time, the paragraph does illustrate that just because Hobbits have grown accustomed to peace, doesn't mean they're pushovers. Consider Bandobras "Bullroarer" Took and the Battle of the Green Fields. When a goblin warband led by Golfimbel descended from the Misty Mountains and broke through the Dunedain's encirclement to invade the Shire, Bullroarer charged straight at the goblin ranks. He then proceeded to knock Golfimbel's head off and shatter the morale of the warband.

The story was repeated in the Battle of Bywater when Saruman decided to set up a criminal ring in the Shire after his defeat at the hands of the Ents. Long story short, once Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin returned, the Hobbits proceeded to raise up a sizeable force and effectively kicked Saruman out of the Shire. Mind you, Saruman used to be the greatest wizard in Middle-Earth, and the Hobbits led to his final defeat. That's two accounts of invasions of the Shire going badly for the invaders.

And that's not even getting into the adventures that Bilbo, Frodo, and his friends got into during the events of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings respectively. Bilbo was able to save the asses of Thorin's Company multiple times, discovered Smaug's weakpoint and indirectly relayed that to Bard via the Thrush, and risked life and limb to forestall a battle between the Dwarves, Men, and Elves till Bolg showed up. Frodo and Sam were ultimately able to destroy the One Ring, while Merry and Pippin were able to rouse the Ents into attacking Isengard. That's not even counting Merry being partially responsible for the death of the infamous Witch King.

So even though the Hobbits were accustomed to peace, they weren't complacent enough to be pushovers when presented with a threat. Personally, I think part of the reason this is so is because the Hobbits never forgot the basic necessities of a good life: a comfortable home, friends, family, and basically everything needed to live simply. They never indulged too much in luxury to become lax like Smaug, nor constantly scheming to take more power like Sauron or Saruman. They were happy with living simple on the farm.

It turns out, that's what gave them their edge. They were down to earth, so they had a good sense of morality thanks to living humble lives. Safeguarding their farms from wild animals meant that some Hobbits could recognize a threat when they realized it. And their sense of community and friendship got them through some of their hardest trials, like when Frodo almost succumbed to the Ring and Sam never gave up on him. Their sense of community and toughing it out through the hardest times such as during the Long Winter when Gandalf began to really warm up to the Hobbits, seeing the value and courage in them.

So while they're not the flashiest or most "badass" of Middle-Earth's free peoples, the Hobbits are some of the hardiest and "purest" races. And how ironically, peace never dulled their senses but served to toughen them up for the dark times ahead.

[hobgoblinns]

i think a thing i love about merry and pippin is despite being so similar they get to have very different stories and develop in different ways. it would be so easy to always lump them in together but they’re consistently their own distinct person with his own battles, challenges, and tales but also with a very dear friend. i’m too sleepy to think any more about this but i think they’re amazing

[legitimatesatanspawn]

You know, they weren't really wrong considering that Pippin was related to the Old Took and the current Thain. Hell, he even was the Thain for like 50 years after the events of LotR.

... except rather than being explicitly royalty, the Thainship is closer to being like the Stewards. Except the line of kings they owe sovereignty to are either hella dead (or worse: undead) or got folded into Aragorn's Rangers. I forget which.

So TECHNICALLY, Pippin has a similar rank as Denethor's sons (probably closer to some xth in line cousin like Alphros though). Still very bold!

If people keep comparing Bilbo to being a prince for Dwarven Panic, we should also do the same with Frodo (his heir and cousin) and Pippin and Merry too.

Legolas pretty quickly gets in the habit of venting about his travelling companions in Elvish, so long as Gandalf & Aragorn aren’t in earshot they’ll never know right?

Then about a week into their journey like

Legolas: *in Elvish, for approximately the 20th time* ugh fucking hobbits, so annoying

Frodo: *also in Elvish, deadpan* yeah we’re the worst

Legolas:

[ghost-husbands]

In Defense of Charles Rowland

Under the cut because this is gonna be a long one, folks.

I'm going to begin this by saying that I have recently joined this fandom and to be fair, don't have as much experience with writing meta and all that. However, I love reading and given that meta is

discussion of fanworks of all kinds, fan work in relation to the source text, fanfiction characters and their motivation and psychology, fan behavior, or fandom itself.

I have always thoroughly enjoyed reading and attempting to write it. Now I have finished watching all the episodes of the season we currently have, and when I finished watching 1x04, I had some pretty strong emotions about what happened in there.

What happened exactly?

Well before we get into that, I want to say that I was inspired to write this because of the original writing of @pippin-katz on the same subject.

So as we know, in 1x04, the ghost husbands have a confrontation with the Night Nurse--an immortal (I think she's immortal, no?) being in charge of the Afterlife's Lost and Found Department. Why is she after them? Because Charles and Edwin are two unaccounted for spirits who are wandering the world and not where they belong. They're both technically special cases. Edwin was dragged to hell by pure accident, the victim of a demon summoning. It says something that even the demon itself apologizes to him for the technicality before he's taken down to the inferno | Charles died after an attack, of hypothermia and his own injuries. He discovers he's dead when he sees his own body and once it hits him that Edwin's going to leave, he doesn't want to stay behind to wait for Death. Frankly, he isn't ready for Death, so he says. So he decides to flee Death, just as Edwin has been since his escape from Hell.

Aside from staying with Edwin for their foreseeable eternity, Charles' motivation for staying is, according to him, the purpose he still serves...the face that he is a Dead Boy Detective who's dedicated himself to helping spirits who still have unfinished business. He's doing good here with Edwin. They are helping people. Ah, let's not forget, I almost missed the fact that when the Night Nurse arrives, Charles almost immediately puts himself between the Night Nurse and Edwin.

He's protecting Edwin as he always has and always will. He's almost bristling with fury and you can see the strength of his will in the way he's standing there, refusing to go quietly. He will fight for his purpose here, he will fight for Edwin, and he will fight for his newly found friends (Niko and Crystal watching from the sidelines now).

The Night Nurse has her job, and she's convinced that it shouldn't be a problem to simply apprehend the boys and pop off. Perhaps if she had only just, then truly, there wouldn't have been a problem. The show would have ended there and that would have been a pretty fucking pathetic end, I'd say. But she resorted to force, and I here want to begin to make my point. The exact kind of force she used and how she used it was cruel, a low blow and makes her, to a certain degree at fault for what befalls her.

What did the Night Nurse do?

Put simply, as pippin-katz points out, she made Charles relive some of his worst memories.

That's being beaten by his father.

That's being stoned by his friends and pushed into the lake where he caught hypothermia.

That's dying freezing and miserable in the attic until Edwin shows up.

If you want a thorough analysis of her actions, go look at what pippin-katz wrote, I'm going to focus on Charles here.

She twisted the knife (and we know that it is a very, very deep wound in Charles, the anger and abuse of his father--he's emotional enough over it to get caught in the murder loop at the Devlin House and it's one of the points of his breakdown in 1x04) when she showed him these moments and basically asks him, "What's the point of staying here, this is what happened to you. That's what people here do to you. You wanted to stay for this? You can't make things better (this was during his father's beating)..It didn't get better, you died. That's the point."

Please, let's not forget how much this affects Charles, the fact that his father beat him and so we might suppose, was always disappointed in him. With Crystal, Charles admits that he looks in on his parents every now and then because yes, he misses them (this coming from a 16 year old boy who despite suffering at his own father's hand obviously had, at least before he died, still the desire to please that man, and perhaps some degree of love for him) but also to be sure that his father will not hurt his mother the way the old man hurt him. He wants to protect his mother. So all of that, reliving that, is going to be very painful.

What did Charles do in this moment?

He's angry. We know that he's very physical, and we can see the way that he puts himself between Edwin and the NN as he refuses to 'come quietly' to the Afterlife. He's visibly shaken by the ordeal and rattled after he recovers from whatever the NN did to him when she made him relive his memories. She flicks her hand and basically does something that makes him collapse, and he's trying to pull himself to his feet after that.

He's so very angry, hurt.

"If you wanted me crushed, devastated, I am. I'm also bloody angry."

Looking around a bit, I asked around to get an idea of how exactly what he did could be taken in a shocking, jarring way. I'm not here to disprove anything or knock other's opinions, I just wanted to compare both sides of it. That being said, two points.

He hit a woman with that big metal device.

It's not like him to be so violent.

Those, in a nutshell, are a very brief, concise idea of why people might look at what Charles did and think, "Hm that was a bit too much. Maybe he shouldn't have done that, not in that way."

I answer with the fact that, as pippin-katz also pointed out, the Night Nurse looks like a small, older woman, otherwise defenseless (Granted, she didn't have anything to defend herself when Charles attacked). Apparently in Doom Patrol (I've never seen it and don't plan to) she looks a little less like a woman and a little more monstrous. So she's not entirely innocent here. I personally disapprove of what she chose to use against Charles (and Edwin, given that she threatened to bring up the same painful memories in Edwin's mind). I don't condone the idea of violence against a woman, that's not okay, and it was a little jarring to see. I guess I'm trying to say....I believe that Charles was right to defend against the attack initiated by the Night Nurse.

Was it laudable that he reacted so violently to her? Perhaps not, I don't think so.

Was he to blame for choosing to fight? I certainly think not.

To the second point, I can't say very much because I haven't read the comics nor do I know extensively his personality and what he would or wouldn't do. But I've gathered that, from seeing the series, he's never quite been the one to attack first, or to strike just for the hell of it. I've only ever seen him react, not initiate. I think it's understandable that he would react strongly to what has happened, and I hold that he isn't to blame for wanting to protect Edwin and their loved ones.

How did his friends react to all of this?

Edwin

Charles reels from what happened, and you can hear that he's shaken by it. You can hear it in his voice when he asks Edwin and the girls, "Why are you all looking at me like that?" Edwin steps forward and tells him it was extreme. That kind of tipped it for Charles, then, I think.

"Was it too extreme, Edwin? So was me dying at 16, mate! I don't wanna be dead. I hate it. Yet every day I'm fucking smiling 'cause who else is going to be the one holding it together, keeping spirits up? You? Are you gonna do that, huh? And for what? What good am I even doing? I couldn't stop Devlin from murdering his family over and over. I can't stop Crystal from hurting. I can't stop whatever it is that's going on with you. I can't stop anything. I sure as hell couldn't stop my dad from beating the shit out of me. No matter how good I was."

Honestly, this part broke my heart. Because Charles, earlier, said that he did this for them, to protect them. He's admitting here that he IS the one trying to hold everyone together but that (wake up call everyone) he's actually hurting too underneath all of it. But as someone pointed out to me, Charles never brought that up to Edwin because he might have considered that Edwin has spent 70 years in hell and would not have wanted to burden his friend with his own problems.

We see that Charles is falling apart here. He's questioning the good that he does, because in his eyes he sees only how he's failed "to stop" all those things, and you can note how his voice rises and breaks towards the end.

Niko and Crystal say nothing in this moment, but either later that episode or in the next one, Crystal snaps at Charles.

"You’re a sweet guy with a rage problem. You walk around acting like the sun always shines, and then you lost your shit while beating the Night Nurse. Edwin and I are walking on eggshells around you instead of just saying 'what the actual fuck?'”

That was definitely something that caught my attention because didn't she hear what Charles said up above? It just popped out at me because Charles explained why he's the one acting like the sun always shines (he needs to try and keep everyone's spirits up because if he breaks down, and Edwin were to break down because of all the shit he's been through, that coupled with Crystal's own problems with David and her personal struggles...there would be no one to pull everyone out of their darkness)

Anyway, I'm not here to bash anyone either. Back to Charles.

So in the end, he breaks down and we can see that the catalyst here (probably) is not only reliving those memories and dragging up the pain he's been carrying from all of that but also the reaction of his friends. In his mind, he did it for them. He immediately steps between the NN and Edwin, to defend Edwin. He's left questioning the good that he's doing here, the point of all of that.

To the final question of was it wrong for Charles to do what he did?

I believe he wasn't wrong. He was defending against an attack. He might have responded with too much violence but he's reacting to something that wounded him just as deeply.

So this ended up being more of an exposition of Charles and his emotional state, but I tried to make a defense of his actions. It's not perfect, and I'm not out to prove any sort of point, just expressing thoughts because I too had a strong reaction to that episode.

Nonetheless Charles remains my favorite.

[wordbunch]

i showed LOTR to my baby sisters for the first time and here’s how it went (in order, from FOTR to ROTK)

so we have C, 9 years old; and N, 12 years old

C is 100% an Aragorn girl, but she couldn’t remember his name so she called him Aaron

N is head over heels for Legolas (”How can someone be so BEAUTIFUL?”)

they feel quite sad for gollum and think that frodo should pet him on the head

“merry and pippin are only here to get in trouble”

which one is saruman and which one is sauron?

favorite quotes “nice crispy bacon” and “we mussssst staaaarve”

later on also “they trickssssed usss!” (they’re only learning english at school so i’m amazed that they already caught on gollum’s weird pronunciation)

they absolutely DIED of laughter at low opacity elrond (”it looks like a music video!”)

both are concerned with the lack of girl characters!

when gandalf was imprisoned at the top of saruman’s tower, C was chanting “just jump!”

N says frodo has absolute main character energy

orcs are “those ugly pigs”

end of FOTR when sam jumps into the water to go after frodo, N screamed in total anguish WHY ARE THEY ALL DYING

whenever someone is close to the ring or frodo is tempted, they yell NO

at one point they also yelled SAM STOP HIM

“sam and frodo love each other very much”

“how did they find so many real tiny people?” (bilbo’s bday party) “Or did they just find one very very tall man?” (gandalf)

legolas is obviously a better boyfriend choice because aragorn is 87 and already has 2 girlfriends

legolas is a disney princess

treebeard is like if gandalf was a tree

(battle of helms deep) C, very aggressively: i would simply CUT OFF ALL THEIR HEADS

is haldir the brother of legolas?? IS HE DYING FOR FOREVER?!

are ents real trees or they just found very huge people and dressed them up as trees

merry is a baby

“THEY’RE SO CUTE” (they = 4 hobbits)

absolutely sobbing at “i can carry you”

gradually beginning to dislike gollum and they were so done when he appeared again at mt doom

screaming crying at legolas’ oliphaunt sequence and at “I AM NO MAN”

blowing kisses to Aragorn on screen

faramir is THE BOROMIR’S BROTHER???

rolling on the floor laughing at all gimli/legolas  banter and their kill count

the new favorite character.....drumroll please..... (after aragorn and legolas)....is PIPPIN

crying when frodo  and gandalf go to undying lands

“i know frodo is suffering but...he could have stayed just a bit longer?”

they loved it overall, wasn’t too scary, can’t wait to watch again

already using some quotes on a daily basis

i’m the proudest big sis lol :’)

@starlady66 @lazyoswald @elrondscalaquendi @thesolarangel @entishramblings @oldmanwithashield @friendofthefellowship yall might enjoy this dumbassery

[astriiformes]

Okay, fun question time. One of the various multimedia elements of the LotR Road Trip AU story is that I am planning on making playlists for each member of the Fellowship, the idea being that they're supposed to be snapshots into everyone's music libraries for when they have the aux cord in the car.

My music taste is pretty all over the place, which helps with a project like this, but I can't claim it's as broad as I would like when trying to represent the music tastes of nine different people. So I would love to solicit some ideas from people--genres, artists, even specific songs. You name it.

Here's generally the vibes I've been curating so far, though I'm not entirely married to all of them:

Frodo -- Indie, acoustic, folk? Probably some instrumentals. Chill beats to carry a cursed artifact to.

Sam -- Generally pretty upbeat. For sure some really traditional folk influences but also like. Folk rock. Should be an extremely feel-good playlist.

Merry -- Nerd music, to put it simply. Folk and filk, as well as some of the found-filk folks out there like Hank Green, probably.

Pippin -- Pop music! He's here to have a good time. Would especially love some input from the Gen Z crowd here since my pop knowledge is a little dated for the youngest member of the Fellowship. What Chappell Roan song would be his favorite.

Boromir -- He is puzzling me. I am keeping in mind that he should have some like. Elder millennial vibes. Currently have Green Day, etc on there but I'm trying to decide if that works.

Aragorn -- Dad rock, plus some modern rock. Think about your dad's road trip playlist (I know mine has several) and you're getting the right picture.

Legolas -- Pop and some indie/acoustic songs. Also a little musical theater. I'll be honest I'm making his eclectic on purpose. Definitely a little cheesy, aro/ace jams encouraged.

Gimli -- Metal, industrial, classical. There is no bigger Trans-Siberian Orchestra fan. Possibly also some labor songs, though I'm thinking more like metal/rock covers.

Gandalf -- Prog rock and other wizard music. I am doing something very dumb and silly and putting classic rock songs with meta references to LotR on his (ex: Led Zeppelin's Misty Mountain Hop), but other suggestions are good too.

Please feel free to totally contradict some of these vibes though. Ideally some of these playlists with be a little more all over the place than I would usually lean towards, since the idea is to represent someone's music taste, not make a true character playlist.

So! Help me out here. What do you all think each Fellowship member would listen to?

[celestialcrowley]

Good morning! Good whatever-time-this-post-finds-you!

My phone updated. Thanks, I hate it. Anyway, I had a bio pinned, but I took it down because I wanted my 6,000 years meta to be pinned. I’m currently on the side of procrastination — I should be working on my GO fiction, someone shout at me to write — so here is a little bit more in depth bio about the ghost behind this tumblr.

🥂🪽🐝

Real Name: Sarah.

Nickname(s): There’s a list. Caps, Ghost, Khas, Khasper, Khasper the Spicy Ghost, Pippin, Haands, Crowley, Ginger and Tapeworm.

Nickname Origin(s): Buckle up. Caps is an age old nickname that was given to me because I wear hats all the time. Ghost began with a chat group I used to be in eons ago. The different variants of Khasper were given to me at my very first job, but we collectively agreed to change things up a bit, and Khasper the Spicy Ghost was born. Pippin was given to me when the Lord of the Rings trilogy was first released. Haands was given to me by former coworkers. Their reasoning behind that is I’ve got big hands. Crowley was given to me by my work bestie, and Ginger was given to me by the rest of my coworkers for my only slightly red hair. Or maybe it’s for my fiery personality. Tapeworm is something my uncle calls me presumably because I’m always hungry, but isn’t that the nature of an actual hobbit?

Preferred Name(s): Ghost, Khasper, Crowley, Ginger or Pippin.

Ao3: Beyond_Ineffable.

Social Media(s): I have Facebook and TikTok. My TikTok is actuallyahobbit89 if anyone is curious. I’m hardly on it though. I’ll pop in to post a video and then disappear like a ghost.

State: Born in raised in Floriduha. It’s a state of chaos.

Birthdate: July 25.

Pet(s): I’ve got two dogs. Mycroft is a probably Dutch shepherd Australian cattle dog mix. I’ve never had him DNA tested, but his mother is an Australian cattle dog. Patch is a portly pitbull mix.

Hobbies: Writing, reading, listening to music and true crime podcasts and stand up paddle boarding.

Personality: Here’s the best way I can describe this. I’m a permanently exhausted pigeon who functions on caffeine, anxiety and not enough sleep. I’m shy and socially awkward, but once I’m comfortable with someone and know that I can completely be myself around them, the anxiety disappears.

Favorite Holiday(s): Big spooky fan, me.

Favorite Drink(s): Coffee, Ice sparkling water + caffeine, London fog tea and cranberry juice.

Favorite Food(s): Sushi, tacos, salmon, crepes, lasagna, sweet potatoes and chicken teriyaki.

Favorite Dessert(s): Pumpkin pie.

Favorite Color(s): Turquoise, but any shade of blue, really. It’s pretty.

Favorite Quote(s): “She walks in starlight in another world.” “The world is not in your books and maps. It’s out there.” “Why do we fall, sir? So that we can learn to pick ourselves up.” “A witch ought never to be frightened in the darkest forest because she should be sure that the most terrifying thing in the forest was her.” “I know of witches who whistle at different pitches, calling things that don’t have names.”

Favorite Book(s): The Inheritance Collection and Neverwhere, which I still need to finish reading.

Favorite TV Show(s): Good Omens, Sherlock, Lucifer, The Exorcist and Hannibal.

Favorite Movie(s): Bad Samaritan, The Hobbit trilogy, The Lord of the Rings trilogy and the Legend of Sleepy Hollow.

Favorite Character(s): Crowley, Aziraphale, Furfur, Hastur, Pippin, Bilbo Baggins, Sherlock, John Watson, Father Marcus and Will Graham.

Favorite Actor(s): David Tennant, Michael Sheen, Martin Freeman, Tom Hiddleston, Anthony Hopkins, Jason Statham, Keanu Reeves and Mads Mikkelsen. It’s an accent thing and a hair thing.

Favorite Song(s): There’s too many. I’ll just drop this here. Whiplash Radio.

Favorite Music Genre(s): Mostly everything under the sun.

Favorite Podcast(s): Small Town Murder.

Have You Ever Met A Celebrity: Yes. Jimmie Johnson, a NASCAR driver, visited the very first job I had. He brought his daughter. Story time! My former coworkers were being a bit too extra around him — personal space, what personal space? — and he didn’t like it. I had not yet had a chance to speak to him, and I was told not to because he’s rude. I didn’t believe that, so later, I saw Jimmie was standing at the fence with his daughter. I walked over, said hello and asked him if his daughter would like to pet the dog. He said yes, so I moved the dog closer so she could pet him through the fence. She did, he thanked me, and that was our interaction. He was very pleasant.

Have You Ever Been To A Concert: I have not, unfortunately.

Do You Collect Anything: Yes. Coffee cups, gnomes and pocket knives. That’s a weird combination.

Do You Have Any Idols: Yes! Neil Gaiman. He’s a legend and someone I admire, especially when the writer’s block is slaying me.

Is There A Real Life Friend You Can Completely Be Yourself With: Yes! I made a tumblr post about him! We’ve known each other a long time.

What Are Your Interests: All things spooky. Ghosts. Graveyards. Stars. Galaxies. Planets. Everything about the solar system. True crime. History. Metaphysical things.

Where Would You Love To Travel To: Ireland. New Zealand. Scotland.

Is There A Random Fact About Yourself That You’d Like To Share: I like flamingos.

No pressure tags: @phoen1xr0se @ineffabildaddy @peregrintook @sad-chaos-goblin @spot-o-bodysnatchin @apocalypticginger-blog @crowleyscleaninglady @missdeliadilisblog @ritz-writes @ineffablemoist @turquoisedata @azirapalalalala @peachworthy @pretendygood @belladonna413 @jackinistafflower @aziraphalalala @scarecrowcloud @tragic-cosmic-magic @musingsofmaisie

It’s open to everyone, but here is an apology dance in case I missed anyone! 💚

[hacash]

Series asks:

• The Terror

• The Musketeers

• the last movie you watched

Marvellously the last film I watched was LOTR, which makes this beautifully easy! Also I want to sue for making me choose just one husband-candidate from the Terror character list, this is nothing but pure biphobia.

The Terror

Character I’d want as a best friend. - Depending on my mood it would either be Bridgens (sweet, gentle, loves books, will clearly be a comforting presence) or Fitzjames (gossipy, kinda bitchy, would enjoy drag brunch and hopefully sharing his fabulous wardrobe with me).

Character I’d want as a parent. – I was going to say MacDonald, as he’s just so nice and dry-witted and shaped like kindness, but honestly one of the fundamental rules of life is that you can't think your parent is hot and Charles Edwards remains an absolute dish, so it's gonna have to be Captain 'Grumpy Pants' Crozier here.

Character I’d want as a sibling. - Irving, my troubled dweeby little baby queer: I have so many queer Christian groups to share with you.

Character I’d want as a significant other. – SOL TOZER. LOOK AT MY TAGS. THIS MUCH IS APPARENT. He's loyal, he's snarky, he's genuinely protective of his men, he's the hottest one of the bunch and clearly takes orders well: which is basically my dream husband. Because I'm greedy I will also dub Fitzjames and Hartnell as very close runners-up: two absolute Good Eggs who also happen to be very pretty.

Character I’d want as a child. – Honest to God, if I could pop baby Thomas Evans into a sling like a baby kangaroo and carry him around all day, I would, with his curls and his pinchable cheeks and his heartbreaking loyalty to his buddies.

Character I’d want as a weird inlaw. – There is only one possible right answer for this, and that answer is Thomas ‘Monsterfucker’ Blanky.

BBC Musketeers

Character I’d want as a best friend. - Porthos, 100% the best musketeers of the bunch.

Character I’d want as a parent. – Obviously Captain Treville; apparently a specific blorbo-type I have is ‘gruff figure of authority who would die for anyone under their command’ and Treville was definitely a foundational blorbo here.

Character I’d want as a sibling. - Sylvie only had a single series and I'm still gutted about it; not only do I think she'd be a great sibling but we could overthrow the government together.

Character I’d want as a significant other. – I didn't spend several years spamming your feeds with reams of d'Artagnan gifsets and meta not to dub him my honorary husband now.

Character I’d want as a child. – Aramis: granted he’s an adult man but I feel like he needs a full-time parent just to tell him what not to put his dick in.

Character I’d want as a weird inlaw. – Can you imagine going to family dinners and having Louis as an in-law? Those meals would be so messy, I would absolutely love that.

LOTR

Character I’d want as a best friend. – I would argue that pretty much the entire point of the trilogy is ‘you will never get a best friend better than Samwise Gamgee’, so obviously my answer’s gotta be Sam. We both like gardening, planting, being snarky little shits and loving Frodo Baggins so we’d probably get on.

Character I’d want as a parent. – Absolutely Theoden: Bernard Hill’s delivery of ‘no parent should ever have to bury their child’ ruined me twenty-two years ago and honestly I’ve never quite recovered. (He makes such a good dad!!)

Character I’d want as a sibling. – Boromir is the archetypal big brother; I would bond with him over adorable hobbits and being aspec so so much.

Character I’d want as a significant other. – My little eleven-year-old self’s crush on both Pippin and Merry was a significantly formative period in my life, so honestly, either of them. They’re both Good Eggs, we can bond over cooking, Pippin can make me laugh lots and Merry can compensate for my utter inability to plan anything ever.

Character I’d want as a child. – Those two adorable baby hobbit kiddos played by Peter Jackson's kids.

Character I’d want as a weird inlaw. – Gandalf is the only weird inlaw.

[frodo-with-glasses]

Been thinking about a particular LOTR what-if scenario (because my D&D campaign took a turn into collaborative LOTR fanfiction), and I'm interested in your perspective on it if you have time . . .

Supposing Boromir somehow survived protecting Merry and Pippin, what effect would that have on Denethor?

Denethor's being fed despair by Sauron either way. But I have always read him as the news of Boromir's death being the thing that breaks him and makes him start to believe it. His grief is certainly a large part of what's informing his treatment of Faramir (though certainly not the only thing, as I think there's textual evidence that Denethor favored Boromir all along).

If Boromir didn't die . . . would Denethor still give into despair? Would he still send Faramir on a suicide mission — and if he did, and Faramir still suffered the same wounds, would Denethor still end up in his whole "all is lost; better to die on our own terms" spiral? Or would he have the presence of mind to see to the defense of the city?

How would he react to Aragorn, a man who has all the qualities Denethor disdains in Faramir but even more so, and who people are now saying is the rightful king (who even his own sons, even favored Boromir, are saying is Gondor's king returned)?

(He almost certainly wouldn't be a fan of Aragorn's plan to draw Sauron's eye away from Frodo. He probably would be greatly displeased that the Ring had been allowed to go across the River to Mordor at all, and even Boromir would have trouble convincing him otherwise.)

Thank you for letting me ramble in your askbox, haha. Don't feel pressured to answer if you don't want to or don't find the question as much as I do. (But if you do answer, I will be delighted.)

As much as the Gondor Dudes aren’t my personal hyperfixation in LotR, I am nonetheless a big fan of overthinking hypothetical situations, so this is right up my alley. :-D (Also, it’s really cool that you’re running an LotR-themed D&D campaign!! Sounds like a blast.)

To be honest, you hit pretty much every point I was going to touch on; Denethor’s despair and consequent insanity were certainly motivated, at least in part, by grief, so if you take the grief out of the equation then naturally the results are going to be at least slightly different. But we still have lots of other factors at play here: fighting a hopeless war, the looming specter of deposition, knowing that your allies just sent a nuke into the territory of the Enemy in the hands of a garden gnome so small you could punt him, and Prolonged Exposure to Cursed Artifact are still going to take their toll on Denethor’s mind. He will doubtless be more motivated to hold on to life while his favorite son is still alive, but even if he doesn't turn paranoid and filicidal, he’s still going to be Deeply Messed Up regardless.

So since I'm not getting any new ideas by looking at things from a Watsonian (in-universe) perspective, I'm gonna steer this in a Doylist (meta) direction and talk about implementation instead. The question I always ask myself with these sorts of "canon but a bit to the left" fanfictions is this:

What do you want out of the story? Do you want to:

A) Return to canon as quickly as possible? B) Change just one thing and see how far it butterfly-effects out? C) Find something somewhere in the middle?

Because the thing with "canon but a bit to the left" AUs that you can make pretty much anything work. It's a hypothetical situation. The question is how far away from canon you're willing to deviate. If I'm writing a "Boromir Lives" AU, I might go a couple of different directions, and the one I ultimately choose depends on personal preference and what I want out of the story.

Putting this under a read-more 'cause it's about to get long.

Option A: Canon, but like .5 degrees to the left

Ever since the battle at the Falls, Boromir has been following Aragorn and doing everything the Three Hunters (well, Four Hunters) do. When Pippin looks into the Palantir, Gandalf decides to take him to Minas Tirith right away, and Boromir, who's eager to get home and feels some responsibility for Pippin, volunteers to go with them.

(Yes I know that Shadowfax travels at ungodly fast speeds to get from Rohan to Gondor, but it's implied that lesser horses can keep up with their lord when they need to, so even if Boromir took a different horse they might still have been able to make it to Minas Tirith in a similar time.)

Denethor gives an enthusiastic welcome to Boromir and a far less enthusiastic welcome to Gandalf and Pippin. That welcome becomes less enthusiastic still in the ensuing conversation/interrogation, when he learns that they totally had the Ring but they sent it into Mordor instead of bringing it here. Boromir tries to reason with his father. Denethor is very disappointed with him. He blames Gandalf for corrupting his other son with all this foolishness, and treats Pippin with suspicion because of the whole prophecy with the Halfling, and the convo ends with hurt feelings all around.

I might need the War Nerds on this blog to correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, the attempt to take back Osgiliath wasn't a completely useless suicide mission, at least in concept. It is a major river crossing, and controlling transportation routes is like War 101. If you make it hard for your enemy to cross the River, you make it hard for your enemy to get to your stronghold, and that's good. Not a bad idea on paper. The only problem was that Minas Tirith didn't have the manpower to pull it off.

(And also there were Nazgul.)

Anyway, the point is, it's almost logical enough that you might be able to get away with Denethor ordering the Osgiliath offensive even without the grief-induced paranoia. Besides, there's still other paranoia in play: so far as Denethor is concerned, the Ring is walking into enemy hands, his son and most trusted captain has turned against him, and Gandalf is already planning a coup.

So here's what I'm thinking. Keep the Osgiliath battle, but send Boromir out there as well. Boromir and brother bravely bear the baleful battle, before their butts are badly beat and they get bit by the Black Breath. Dad feels bad, his boasts bashed as his boys' bodies burn with fever. Battle bears down on the beleaguered bourgeoisie, but their bereaved bigwig is barely bothered, too busy building bier bonfires.

…Sorry, I don't know where that came from.

Anyway, the point is, this puts us squarely back where we'd be at this point in canon: Denethor thinks he’s about to lose his family, his city, and his kingdom, and consumed by despair he decides that it's better to die on his own terms than in the hands of the Enemy. You can pretty much just follow canon from here and copy-paste Boromir with whatever is happening to Faramir.

(Except, of course, for the whole "falling in love with Eowyn" thing. But hey! Boromir was in Rohan! He and Eowyn probably know each other already! So they might have some fun conversations in the Houses of Healing.)

This is the route I would take if you want to stick as close to canon as possible and still keep Boromir alive. If adherence to the narrative is not your biggest concern, however:

Option B: Go stupid, go crazy

Boromir doesn't die. What does that change?

Well, everything, if you let it.

Let's say Boromir does return to Minas Tirith with Gandalf and Pippin like I suggested above. Let's say he's able to talk his father into begrudgingly going along with their unorthodox plan to save the world. Let's say Denethor doesn't call for the almost-but-not-quite-entirely-completely-a-suicide-mission to Osgiliath and instead puts Boromir and Faramir to work strengthening the defenses of the Minas Tirith. By time the Battle of Pelennor Fields rolls around, Denethor—now no longer occupied by the family barbecue—is available to direct defense of the city, with both sons acting as his captains.

Awesome! All this is great stuff, right?

Well, yes. So far.

The problem is that we lose so many great moments with other characters in the process. Pippin's pell mell run to find Gandalf. Beregond abandoning his post to protect Faramir. Eowyn and Merry, who slayed the Witch King together because Gandalf was too busy putting out fires (literally!) to get down there and do it himself. Aragorn, proving that "the hands of a king are the hands of a healer"! And if Faramir and Eowyn hadn't both suffered the Black Breath, they wouldn't both have been forced to stay behind as everyone else went to fight at the Black Gate, and they wouldn't have fallen in love in the same way.

This is not a statement meant to push your decision one way or another, but it's just a fact of the decision: If you dispense with Denethor's paranoia, and the insanity, and the murder arson, then you dispense with a lot of the other cool moments in this book. The question you've got to ask yourself is if that's a price you're willing to pay, and if not, how you can work around it.

Anyway, back to Pelennor Fields. I want you to imagine that Denethor is standing at the wall, watching the battle raging below him. It's not going well. The reinforcements from Rohan arrived, but they're barely hanging on. And to his dismay, he sees a fleet of black dots which could only be Corsair ships sailing up the river.

The foremost ship unfurls a banner, with the Tree of Gondor glittering on it.

And the army that pours out of them absolutely wrecks shop with Sauron's forces.

Is Denethor feeling relief? Yes. But is he feeling dread and apprehension and anger too? Also yes. He knows what this is. It's a challenge to his power waiting to happen. All his suspicions about Gandalf's ulterior motives are coming true: he has found someone to supplant him, and whether or not this kid is the true Heir of Isildur, the darn upstart's already gone all dramatic and made a war hero out of himself. Whoop-de-frickin'-do.

And then, he sees Aragorn's face.

And he's livid.

Fun fact: Appendix A tells us that Aragorn actually worked for Denethor’s dad, Ecthelion, for a long time. Aragorn went by a different name, of course, but he was so competent and so well-liked that he became Ecthelion's most trusted and honored captain, to the point that the Steward liked Aragorn more than he liked Denethor. We don't just have history here. We have beef. It's a little bit of a Tony Stark, Howard Stark, Steve Rogers situation where it’s like “Dad liked you more than he liked me and I’m his own son”.

You’d better bet your bottom dollar that when Denethor’s childhood rival rocks up to Minas Tirith, flying a banner made by an elven princess and carrying the Sword that Was Broken on his belt like he's somebody important, it doesn’t matter if Boromir and Faramir and Imrahil and everybody else in Minas Tirith likes him and happily falls in line behind him; Denethor is still gonna take one look at his face and go, “oh. it’s YOU. I freakin' HATE you.”

Whether this colors their ongoing relationship "coolly polite" or "passive-aggressive" or "outright hostile" depends on how vindictive you want to write Denethor. Because let's be honest, bro could totally order Aragorn to leave Minas Tirith and he would; Aragorn knows he's not the king yet, and he's humble enough to accept orders while the Steward is still in charge (as bass-ackwards as that is). But the thing is that Aragorn has the support of the people, and banishing him isn't gonna change that; if anything, it will probably garner sympathy for him, cause the people of Minas Tirith to distrust their leader, and maybe result in fracturing the loyalties of the populous.

So here's what you've got, okay.

You now have a David and Saul situation.

Think about it. Charismatic, upright war hero, beloved by everyone he meets, serving under the suspicious and deeply disturbed incumbent ruler who knows the newcomer is gonna boot him off the throne. You can't live with him: 'cause he's gonna boot you off the throne. But you can't live without him: 'cause you're in desperate need of his particular set of skills, and you'd be incredibly unwise to do away with him and earn the ire of the public. So you put up with him. And put on a show of liking him. And maybe chuck a spear at his head while he's playing the harp to calm down your possibly demonic fits.

But that's just Saul, so let's get back to Denethor.

The next step, in the book, is obviously the Battle of the Black Gate. And, obviously, Denethor is gonna think this military equivalent of knocking on the door of an axe murderer and threatening him with a pea shooter is a terrible idea, because it is. But the whole point—Aragorn and Gandalf and Boromir and Faramir and Imrahil and everyone else insists—is to distract Sauron long enough that the Ring-bearer can succeed in his mission. The plan isn't to win, it's to be bait.

Now you have a few options.

Denethor can, once again, begrudgingly go along with it, showing that he's slowly changing in heart. Perhaps Aragorn's humility is winning him over. Perhaps Boromir's impassioned pleas are getting through. In any case, you have a pretty good set-up for a redemption arc here, which could be interesting if you want to go down that road.

Alternatively, this could be the moment that Denethor entirely gives in to despair and basically says "fine, if you guys wanna go kill yourselves, I'll just be over here doing the exact same thing", and he tries to make Steward a la flambé. (Whether or not he succeeds is up to you, but I will say that this would be a pretty easy way to settle the succession crisis.)

Alternatively still, Denethor could publicly denounce the whole idea as stupid and order the people of Minas Tirith to stay put and defend the city, at the same time that Aragorn and the rest are urging those same people to come with them for one last stand. Now every eligible fighter in the city has to make a choice. Who will they follow? Lord Denethor, or Lord Elfstone? The people are divided. Factions are made. (This might be the moment that a certain member of the Guard sees Faramir standing with Lord Elfstone and decides, for the first time in his life, to break the rules.) In any case, the force that travels to the Black Gate is far smaller than it would have been if not for Denethor's interference.

If you go with the first option, it's a quicker road to a happy ending. Aragorn returns victorious, he and Denethor reconcile, and Aragorn honors the Steward and puts him in a place of high esteem. Everyone in Minas Tirith likes this, including Boromir and Faramir, and everyone lives happily ever after.

If you go with the second option, Denethor has either successfully or unsuccessfully attempted sudoku, which should probably disqualify him from public leadership either way. If he succeeded in barbecuing himself, it's the tragedy of a man who never got to see the upcoming victory; if he failed, it's the tragedy of a man whose mind was so utterly broken by the Enemy that he couldn't enjoy it.

If you go with the third option, congratulations; after Aragorn gets back, you still have to deal with the succession crisis. But I've waffled on for long enough and have basically no ideas how you'd handle this post-story, so I'm not gonna go down that road any further.

Option C: Pitch straight down the middle

Now what I've just presented are the two most extreme possibilities of a "Boromir Lives" AU that exist in my brain, but they're far from the only options. This thing is a spectrum. There are a potentially infinite number of possible storylines, some closer to canon, some further away.

If you like parts of one but not the other, you can mix and match. Take an exit ramp from the AU and get back on canon wherever you want, or just don't and see where it takes you. All I've done is present the furthest extremes I could think of to help shake up the ol' creative juices.

(I would have explored the possibility of Boromir arriving on the corsair ships with Aragorn instead of a few days earlier with Gandalf and Pippin, but that didn't change much except for Boromir having less opportunities to talk his dad down from bad decisions. So do with that what you will.)

Conclusion

I have no idea if this was the kind of answer you were looking for, but I guess I'm just returning rambling for rambling, LOL! In any case, I hope this helped, and if not, I hope it was a fun read.

But there is one more thing I can do for you, before I wish you good luck in your D&D endeavors, and that's turn it over to everyone else who reads this blog and see what they think!

HEY YOU GUYS! If Boromir lived, how would that effect Denethor's psyche?? Reblog with your thoughts!