#Phoenix saga
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nerds-yearbook · 4 months ago
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Jean Grey committed suicide at the end of Uncanny X-Men 137#, cover date September, 1980. Originally, she was set to be stripped of her Phoenix power and return to the X-Men. However, Editor-in-Chief Jim Shooter felt her actions as the Dark Phoenix killing an entire planet mandated she pay the ultimate sacrafice for her crimes. The issue also introduced Warstar, Manta, Hussar, and Earthquake, created by Chris Claremont and John Byrne. ("The Fate of the Phoenix", Uncanny X-Men 137#, Marvel Comic Event)
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cnwolf-brainrot · 5 months ago
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I'm curious, what do you think of X-Men: The Last Stand? Are there things you would do to improve it? Besides having Nightcrawler actually in the movie of course. xD
Sorry it took me a minute to get to this ask because I have A LOT OF THOUGHTS, this is a FANTASTIC question because I actually literally just rewatched that movie!! (yes, it was for Weapon by Name. No, it wasn't for anything plot-related, it's cause I've been having a hard time writing Hank McCoy lol)
Very short version: I like some parts of the movie, but I definitely have ideas on how to improve it!
This is going to be a long post so my improvement ideas will be under the cut! But first:
What do I think of the movie? I mean... it's not the best. There are a few enjoyable moments, but it's just genuinely not a super well-written film; it feels unbalanced in a lot of places, leaves out a lot of things I would have liked to see addressed from the first few films (*cough* yes I'm talking about Kurt *cough*) and feels like it doesn't properly give focus to the Phoenix storyline at all. I think one of my biggest problems on a re-watch was the fact that Jean literally does nothing. She has no motivations in the movie and only a handful of dialogue lines. HOWEVER, I do love the mutant cure plot line, and I feel like it makes a fantastic focus for a third X-Men movie! I also think I can blame this movie for my love of Warren Worthington! There are definitely parts of this movie that I do enjoy, there are just things that could have been better! Now, a break-down:
Things that I like/would keep the same: - The Worthington Industries/Cure plotline (I find the mutant cure to be an extremely interesting X-Men plot, and I enjoyed how it was handled here for the most part. I'd make a few small changes to balance it with the rest of the story, but this is something that I'd want to see MORE of rather than LESS of) - Most of Warren's story (again, this is a plot that I LOVED from the movie, but needed to see more of. This goes back to the unbalanced feeling I mentioned, and I'll talk more in a bit about how I'd fix it) - Hank McCoy (honestly I love Hank in this movie, I don't think I have any changes) - Mystique's ending (I actually love how this movie handled Mystique. It's short, simple, shows just how much her abilities mean to her with her casual shifting even while she's captured, and I personally feel that her turning her back on Magneto when he turned his back on her was a very in-character moment. This whole subplot was great, no changes)
Things I would completely take out: - Juggernaut (he was an unnecessary addition to an already packed story, he really didn't add anything and if he's going to be in a movie I think he deserves more screen time) - The whole plot line with Xavier having hidden Jean's true powers from her. (It just makes Xavier a bad mentor figure in my mind, and I'd prefer it if there's just a quick explanation of there being weird energy readings at Alkali Lake or something that could have brought her back.) - The weirdness that was Kitty and Bobby sort of flirting (I feel like this was shoehorned in just to add a romantic tension between Bobby and Rogue. Kitty and Bobby have little to no chemistry and any that they do have just makes Bobby seem like a jerk to Rogue. I have a proposed fix for this subplot, which I'll address in a bit, but I would completely remove romantic implications between these two) - Xavier's death as it was (I feel like there was a strange imbalance between his death and Scott's, so to increase emotional impact I would like to streamline it and get rid of that scene)
Ok, now what would I do to improve it?
HONESTLY if I were to completely rewrite this movie, I would have to go back and rewrite X2 as well because I don't feel like the foundations were set up well for the type of Phoenix Saga that I would have liked to see. HOWEVER, I'm already rewriting X2 in Weapon by Name so there's no way I'm doing that again. Instead, here are just a couple of semi-quick changes that I would make to the movie, WITHOUT changing any of the previous canon.
First of all, let's talk about Scott. Scott Summers is the backbone of the X-Men and he was done DIRTY by this movie, so let's at least make it a bit better. Going based off of what has been established for him by the canon of this set of films, we have basically three character traits for him: he's Xavier's star pupil, he's the leader of the X-Men, and he's in love with Jean Grey. SO, instead of having him sulk and shirk his teaching duties at the beginning of the movie (which goes against two of the three things established about him) we instead go the opposite route. The movie opens up with Scott leading the Danger Room session, and we see that he has basically thrown himself into his work after Jean's death. Storm and Xavier express concern about this, even Logan can tell something is off, but Scott continues to drive himself and the new X-Men (Bobby, Kitty, Rogue, and Peter) into the ground as a way to try and avoid his grief
Speaking of the newbies, let's pause the Summers angst and talk about them for a moment. In the actual movie these four get completely sidelined (I already talked briefly about how Kitty is just used as an awkward romantic device, and Rogue literally disappears for days without anyone questioning where she is/misses the whole final fight scene, and yes I'm happy that Peter and Logan have a Fastball Special, but that's literally the only time he contributes to the movie). I wish that we had gotten a little bit more of the four of them in X2, but again we're not changing anything from that movie here. What I propose as a way to improve them as characters in this movie alone is to treat them as a unit. I think that if the four of them were treated as friends and shown in the first Danger Room scene having a bit of banter/generally joking around and working as a team, it would establish to the audience that these people know each other, like each other, and have a reason for being on the team together. In addition, setting these four up as friends in the first scene with them also helps fix Rogue's whole character arc.
I was genuinely upset with how the movie handled Rogue; it boiled her entire character arc/want for the cure down to "I want to be able to touch my boyfriend". I think this is a huge disservice to her character, and I think it can be hugely improved in just this first Danger Room scene. Instead of having the moment where Kitty saves Bobby, we replace that with a moment where Kitty is in trouble and Rogue reaches out to help her. Bobby or Peter then jump in and pull her back because her gloves fell off in the exercise; if she'd tried to help her friend, she would have only hurt them both. Now Rogue's eventual desire for the cure isn't built on teenage horniness; it's built on a fear of being dangerous to those she cares about.
Now, back to Scott. With this re-written version that focuses more on him trying to drown himself in work rather than just being sad and mopey, I think that a good way to get him to Alkali Lake would be for Xavier to have a talk with him. Xavier pulls him aside and basically says "you're hurting yourself by avoiding this, Scott. Take a few days. Take a breath. Allow yourself to breathe." This is what results in him going off to Alkali Lake and Jean's revival happening.
Personally, I wouldn't kill Scott here. I would let him come back to the mansion with Jean and everyone gets a reunion... however, Scott and Logan both start to notice something is off about Jean. She seems just a bit too on-edge, will zone out occasionally, things will float around her without her even noticing that she's controlling them, and there's the whole fact of she should be very dead.
Scott is concerned for Jean and trying to find a way to help her. Logan, on the other hand, is beginning to wonder if this person even is Jean at all, or if this is just some creature that is trying to look like her.
Now, a quick aside for some thematic values of the movie. I'm sure there are some in the original movie, but I had a hard time finding them honestly. What I would like to be the main theme of my version would be the concept of monster-versus-man or the "beast inside". This theme would primarily be shown in the contrast between Logan and Jean, as they are (or at least SHOULD BE) the main two characters. However, every key character could be shown to be struggling with their "internal beast": - Rogue, who is struggling to be close to anyone because of her mutation (an example of how this "beast" can be harmful to others) - Warren, who tried to get rid of his mutation long before the cure was invented (an example of how denying that beastial nature entirely only serves to hurt himself) - Scott, who keeps his mutation carefully contained to try and please the people and ends up paying for it (we'll talk about his fate in a moment) - Ororo, who is at peace with the wild, natural nature of her mutation (an example of a good balance between the man and the "monster") - McCoy, who is the literal embodiment of the "beast" and can't even attempt to hide, but still contemplates how it would be to feel more human (another example of balance, but with more longing) Every part of the "cure" plotline would help amplify this theme, and keeping that in mind for every character's decisions throughout the film would give it a far more streamlined and dynamic feel
Speaking of streamlined and dynamic, let's talk for a second about Magneto. I'm torn on what to do with our man Erik. Half of me is tempted to completely write him out, because I think he completely overshadows Jean in the original movie and that he's half of the problem with how it doesn't feel like a Dark Phoenix film, lol. However, he's also the best X-Men antagonist and it would feel like a disservice to him to leave him out of the climax of the trilogy, especially when the cure plotline is something that he would never stand to the side and watch.
So, I think that here we still have Eric gather his forces and start making threats over the cure. However, we cut the scene with him and Jean and Xavier in Jean's old house. Instead, we have the X-Men go to confront Eric just before another attack. This is at a public support rally for the cure, and remember Scott is still alive here.
Just before this scene, we should have a scene between Scott and Jean, where they talk about the changes that Jean's been experiencing. Scott's worried about her, and Jean tries to tell him she's fine (and that maybe this new power isn't a bad thing). In this scene we have the moment where Jean uses her powers to let Scott see without his glasses -- only he flinches away the moment he opens his eyes, and basically tells her that it doesn't feel right. He also tells her that the old Jean -- his Jean -- didn't need all of this power. She was content with things they way they were. We see a big example of that "inner beast" theme here, focusing on that contrast of how Scott wants to keep his powers under control in order to fit in while Jean has almost limitless power at her control, and she doesn't see a reason not to use it to make their lives better.
Now, back to the X-Men versus Magneto. As they stare him down, Jean tells Scott she could end it. She could wipe the minds of everyone in the crowd around them, and change them all to mutant supporters. She could change everything with just a thought.
Scott, of course, tells her no. He wants to try and solve this peacefully, the way that Xavier would (it's important that Logan overhears this line).
In the middle of Scott trying to diffuse the situation, one of the anti-mutant protesters tries to take a shot at Magneto. This causes immediate chaos, and another protester takes aim at the X-Men. Magneto deflects the bullet coming towards him. Scott is hit.
Oh goodness I hit a text block limit I didn't even know Tumblr HAD text block limits ok then.
Now, with this being the way that Scott dies, Jean actually has a reason to go berserk and give into the power she feels. She tried to follow Scott and keep it contained, and the attempt at peace got him killed. She ends up killing multiple innocents here, and when Logan tries to reach out to her she turns and leaves the X-Men behind.
Professor X's funeral scene is replaced by Scott's funeral scene. In the original movie it felt unbalanced to have such a focus on Xavier's death and no focus on Scott's, so as previously mentioned I think we should take Xavier's death out entirely. Plus, because of the nature of Scott's death (being killed by an anti-mutant protester), now the whole school is buzzing with unrest about the cure.
This is where we would have the scene where Bobby comforts Kitty, but unlike the original where's it's a "romantic" beat between those two we have all four of the younger X-Men outside iceskating together. Scott was their teacher so they were all fairly close with him, and they talk about it together. They also talk about the cure, and how they don't want to take it after Scott's death... Rogue is the only one who speaks up for the fact that the cure wasn't what killed Scott, it was just the people in support of it. We also have a moment here where everyone ends up knocking into each other as they skate, and that is where Rogue's jealously comes from; simple, human interaction that she isn't able to experience.
She leaves early, and Bobby notices. They have a conversation that only serves to upset Rogue more, and this is where we have a touch of their relationship because yes, it's important to her and she does want to be able to get physical comfort from her boyfriend, but now it's built on top of the other ways it has affected her life. He mutation has hurt her relationship with her family, her friends, and her boyfriend instead of only putting the focus on her romantic life. This conversation leads to Rogue leaving to try and get the cure.
But putting them aside for a moment, let's focus on Warren. I really liked the skeleton for Warren in this movie, but he still feels very flat and stilted because we don't get much depth to his character. To fix this, I would have developed a friendship between him and Leech. Both are prisoners here in Worthington Labs in their own unique way. Both have the illusion of choice (Warren could theoretically say no to his father, and Leech is shown to be comfortable and humanely treated which means he probably had at least a bit of autonomy) but neither have true freedom. I think it would give a level of depth to Warren's character if we see a scene of him sitting with this kid, maybe even moving just close enough that his wings go away, and Leech asking him if this is what he really wants. They could talk about the cure, really give the audience an inside perspective on what would go through the mind of a mutant to make them want to take this, and also bring up another running theme of freedom and what it looks like. ALSO we could have them talk about the complicated relationship between Warren and his dad, which would make Warren saving him at the end of the movie more impactful. Also, it would add another level of depth to the look of pure longing that Leech gives Warren as he watches him fly away after the attempt at taking the cure.
Now, in the original movie I felt like it was a bit awkward for Warren to just show up at the Institute without any real reason to go there. That could be fixed by tossing in a comment about the Institute along with the aforementioned Leech scene, but instead, I think it'd be interesting if Rogue was already heading over to try and get the cure as Warren breaks out. She sees him flying away, and makes the decision to follow him instead of going to get the cure. They end up talking (this could be off screen or on screen, either way) but end up showing up to the final fight last minute together.
Before we get to the final fight through, let's talk more about Jean. Now, at this point I think we've already made her arc better by giving her the earlier scene where she talks with Scott, plus hid death causing an actual emotional impact that would turn her against humanity. I feel like one of the biggest problems with the original movie is that they don't give Jean any screen time, which to be fair they tried to cram a LOT into this movie. However, it is literally supposed to be a Dark Phoenix movie, so I think she should get at least one scene where we really see her struggle with the new beast inside of her. This would start out as a solo scene where we get to see her go somewhere away from civilization, probably into the middle of the woods or something, where she can let go for a minute and literally scream out her grief. We see objects floating around her and turning dangerous in the wake of her anger (maybe she accidentally kills a few animals, something catches on fire, etc), and I'd love for her to have some dialogue that brings into question for the audience whether this really is Jean, or if the Phoenix Force is something else entirely.
Magneto would show up halfway through her breakdown, and try to give her the same "you could be powerful, you could get revenge" speech he does in the original movie to get her on his side. But, Jean doesn't fall for it; instead she says he's going to manipulate her the same way Scott did, and that she's not going to make the same mistake twice. Her reasoning doesn't entirely make sense, but that's where the Phoenix comes in; now that she's latched onto the idea of people hurt the ones I love because I tried to hold back, the Phoenix is using that to make her completely loose control and cause the chaos that it craves.
Magneto attempts to talk her down once he realizes that she's becoming a danger to mutants as well, and this escalates into a fight between the two of them. Honestly, I think it would have been interesting to see Jean kill Erik here; as much as I enjoyed him being de-powered in the original version, I feel like having Erik out of the picture would give more focus to Jean as the climax. She kills Erik, and then turns her sights to Alcatraz to try and take out everything that she perceives as harmful to her people (though at this point, as seen with Erik's death, the Phoenix has blinded her to the point that she can't truly see who her people are)
The X-Men are still in the wake of Scott's death, but they find out Jean is going to Alcatraz and that she killed Erik (because of course Xavier would be able to sense that) and they gear up to go fight. I think we should also get a moment between Bobby and Logan here talking about the fact that Rogue isn't there with a ton of guilt from Bobby, and Logan basically accepting that she's made her choice.
Also, Xavier goes with them to Alcatraz. Everyone is a bit hesitant, but he makes the point that he knows Jean's mind better than any of them, and that at the level of power she's at they might have to take it to an astral plane battle in order to defeat her. Plus, Jean has taken both Scott and Erik from him. He can't sit on the sidelines of this fight, not when he feels responsible for her spiral (again I would like to take out the "Xavier hid her memories from her" thing and focus on the fact that he basically raised her from when she was a teenager, BUT you also could keep that plotline in here)
So now we actually have the final fight, which is just the X-Men and the army VS Jean. For Jean of course this feels like betrayal, since the entire reason she's here and fighting is because humans (like the soldiers the X-Men are standing with) killed Scott. This also gives us a chance to see just how powerful Jean is, because it's literally like 100 to 1.
Now the rest of the fight goes similarly with Kitty rescuing Leech (though she's fighting against the building collapse, not Juggernaut) and Warren coming back to save his father (with the added detail that Rogue comes with him). We also get a reunion between Rogue and Bobby and Rogue helps Kitty save Leech. I'd also like for there to be a sweet moment mirroring the opening Danger Room scene where Rogue reaches out to try and help Leech just like she'd tried to help Kitty, and she's actually able to touch him and save him. At the same time, she also uses her powers in the fight to help, and she doesn't lose her powers at the end of the film.
The fight with Phoenix comes down to Xavier trying to get into her head, and they duke it out in the astral plane. We get to see here that this isn't really Jean any more; Jean is almost completely gone, it's the Phoenix that has overtaken her. We have a bit of dialogue here about how the monster has taken over to reflect that "internal beast" theme, and haha I lies we didn't entierly take out Xavier's death, I think he should die here. It looks like all is lost, until Logan comes up behind her and finishes the job similarly to the movie.
Logan's character arc ends with accepting that he is a beast, and that he can use that to protect those around him. It means he has to make the hard choices, but unlike Jean he's able to come back from that beastial mindset and actually process the grief with the rest of the team.
So THERE WE GO!! I think that's how I would rewrite the movie!! I like a lot of parts from it, but I think it could have been improved! Sorry this ended up being a much longer ramble than I intended and there's still things I could have fleshed out more, but this took way too long to type out so I'm just leaving it here.
TL;DR: If I could make improvements on this movie, I would have given Rogue more of a character arc, Scott a more satisfying death, and Jean the spotlight she deserved. Also, I would have given the film some identifiable themes that actually relate to the character's actions.
If you read this whole thing holy cow thank you this took me several hours lol
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2stepadmiral · 4 months ago
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If mutants become the focus of the MCU in phase 7-9, then they should make Dark Phoenix the big bad of phase 7. Phase 8 should be Apocalypse, but build up to him, work in the Celestial connection, and bring back a recasted Kang to be part of his origin. Magneto, Sinister, and the Sentinels are recurring throughout. Then, phase 9 NEEDS to have Onslaught as the overall phase villain. Have the first X-men movie end with Magneto getting blasted full force by a pissed off professor X, then make it seem like Magneto is constantly spying on the heroes (not just the X men, also Spider-Man and the fantastic four) throughout the movies until it’s revealed in the phase 9 X-Men movie that it had been onslaught all along. Then, that first movie is the X-Men fighting on slot and ultimately losing, with the post credit scene teasing Avengers 7, then Avengers 7 and 8 cover Onslaughts attack on New York, his massing of power using X-Men and Franklin Richards, before the heroes finally launch one final attack on onslaught. This would also be the perfect time for Bruce to bring back the real Hulk, as a desperate maneuver to finish Onslaught, having Jean deactivate Bruce Banner, and bring back the Hulk. It would even be comic accurate. 
Basically I love Onslaught and think he is the most criminally underrated X-men villain ever, and he would be the perfect big bad for an MCU saga, particularly since his original comic appearance was an Infinity War level team up and the story would require very little tinkering. Plus, I love Apocalypse and want him to get a better film adaptation, and I love Kang and hope that they recast and bring him back later.
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xmencovered · 6 months ago
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Special Strange 19 / Published: March 1980 / Artist: Jean Frisano
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racefortheironthrone · 9 months ago
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So in the early days of the X-Men, was Jean both telekinetic and telepathic? Or just the former and the latter was locked away, I think is what I've heard. And has Xavier ever showed any telekinetic abilities, or is he just a super strong telepath?
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(credit to Kirby Without Words)
So this is an area in which there have been a LOT of retcons, some I like better than others. When Jean Grey first appears in Uncanny X-Men #1, she's a telekinetic pure and simple. During the Silver Age, at one point Jean's telepathic abilities additionally manifested as part of a complicated plot involving her being the one student aware that Professor X had faked his death once again, and she became one of the first mutants to have two powers.
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Then in 1981's Bizarre Adventures #27, there was a major retcon that Jean Grey's telepathic abilities were actually the first to awaken long before her telekinesis. Her childhood friend Annie Richardson was fatally struck by a car while playing with Jean at their suburban street in Annandale-on-Hudson nearby Bard College. This event caused Jean's telepathic powers to activate as she experienced her friend's death from the inside, which caused massive crippling depression and an inability to control her psychic powers that eventually motivated her (horrible) parents to bring in Charles Xavier to help - and he ultimately decided on a strategy of installing psychic blocks to suppress her telepathy until she became older and better able to handle it.
I have very mixed feelings about this retcon. On the one hand, the Annie Richardson event is a classic traumatic backstory and one that advances a lot of interesting themes for Jean Grey in terms of her otherworldiness and her unique perspective on mortality. On the other hand, I feel like the whole business around Professor X installing psychic blocks leads to a pattern of midreading of the Dark Phoenix Saga as one of flawed and corrupt patriarchs unable to handle the cosmic feminine - when the whole point was that Jean established the psychic blocks as a way to control the Phoenix Force while remaining human, and it was the elimination of those blocks at the hand of greedy, self-interested, gaslighting, manipulative, sexual predators that ultimately brought the Dark Phoenix into being.
Professor X has occasionally demonstrated telekinetic abilities, mostly in the Krakoan Era.
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samasmith23 · 8 months ago
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Lol! Logan, you should know better to underestimate your opponent based solely on their appearance!
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From Uncanny X-Men (1963) #108 by Chris Claremont & John Byrne.
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wanderingmind867 · 9 months ago
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Controversial opinion perhaps (but I'm already anti chris claremont's x-men, so I've probably already burned bridges), but I think the Phoenix saga makes 0 sense. And I have a proposal (I legitimately would like to see a story about this now): reverse Lorna Dane and Jean Grey for the phoenix saga.
Lorna Dane makes more sense as the one who gets godlike power. Her original saga in X-Men #49-52 (or so) had people treating her like she was all powerful for bit. Also, if Lorna and Jean swap, what changes? We can still get lilandra and the sh'iar. We can get Corsair and the starjammers because of Havok. We can even have grief if it's Alex that has to move on instead of Scott. Really, there's no reason not to explore this. And I hope you see what I'm trying to get at here.
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k1rj4 · 2 months ago
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Is it wrong that I want him to be romanceable? 💀 His route would be PEAK enemies to lovers I'm serious
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absencesrepetees · 2 years ago
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x-men: the last stand (brett ratner, 2006)
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kollectorsrus · 4 months ago
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krishu213 · 5 months ago
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andrecomics · 1 year ago
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Jean Grey Phoenix brush marker doodle
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themutantages · 2 years ago
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Reminder: THIS is the Dark Phoenix.
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xmencovered · 1 year ago
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Special Strange N. 12 / Published: June 10, 1978 / Artist: Jean Frisano
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racefortheironthrone · 11 months ago
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Do you prefer Phoenix as what was originally intended, as Jean at the peak of her powers, or as the cosmic force it became that wound up getting involved with Jean (to put it in the most basic terms)?
No, it always had to be both. If the Phoenix is just Jean Grey, another Omega-level mutant, the story ends in cosmic oblivion. Even as an Omega, Jean Grey alone can win a battle, but she lacks the cosmic transcendence of Tiphareth to remake the universe in the image of the tree of life.
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At the same time, if it is just the Phoenix inhabiting an empty vessel, the narrative collapses into hollow stage play. To borrow the language of my earlier post about Cristological controversies, if there is only a divine nature and no human nature, there is no sacrifice and no salvation. As Claremont understood and Shooter and Busiek failed to grasp, with the clone retcon, you lose the core dramatic arc of a brave woman who grapples with divinity and in the end chooses to die a human.
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hollow-keys · 7 months ago
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The Jason Wyngarde elements of the Dark Phoenix Saga are so bad.
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