#Narrative Perspective

[bookofmirth]

I believe the next MC in the ACOTAR book is Azriel, but do you think it will only be his pov? Obviously, we’ll have Az’s, but I think we might get Gwyn’s as well. I read somewhere that there are only two books left in the ACOTAR series, so I believe the next book will be Gwynriel and after that it will be Elucien, but I could be wrong. What are your thoughts? And what would you like to see in Azriel’s book? I hope we get a more deeper look into his childhood, self-worth and his mental health.

This is going to be more than you asked for :D Fair warning.

So the thing with the next books is that they will continue to be third person narration, which means that it's not strictly in someone's POV so much as it follows different characters closely. Acosf wasn't technically in Nesta's POV - the narrator, who is not a character but just a mouthpiece, followed Nesta most closely. Then they followed Cassian most often, after Nesta. I actually noticed a moment where it told us Gwyn's thoughts, too. Here is what I mean:

Roslin, Ananke, and Deirdre were close on their heels, propelling Gwyn to push her group harder. She wanted to be the first. Wanted Nesta and Emerie and her to be the ones who wiped the smirks from Azriel’s and Cassian’s faces. Especially Azriel’s.

Gwyn is the one who is thinking "especially Azriel's". However, we wouldn't say that this scene is in her perspective - it's just that the narrator - who again, is a nameless entity - has decided to hone in on what Gwyn is thinking in that moment. Third person close perspective allows us that flexibility, of following whichever character's thoughts are most important at the moment. In that section, the narration actually isn't following anyone else, it's completely removed from Nesta and Cassian. So there is no explanation of it being Nesta who thinks that about Gwyn - it is 100%, without a doubt, the third person narrator telling us what Gwyn is thinking.

Here is another example:

Azriel went wholly still, as if he, too, had felt the shift. As if he, too, were aware that far larger forces peered into that training ring as Gwyn moved.

This is Azriel's "perspective" in the main body of acosf. Not in his chapter. I mean, it would be super weird if Nesta were the one making this observation. It would feel really off, we would be wondering how the hell she could have made such an astute observation and what the hell she would know about "far larger forces". But because it's actually not Nesta's perspective, but a third person narrator, we get that flexibility.

I bring this up because I've been thinking about it for a while haha and this seemed like an apt moment to mention! None of acosf is actually in Nesta's or Cassian's perspective, so much as it's being told through a third person narrator who is completely removed from the action, who has omniscient powers, and is telling us what is going on. Otherwise, we wouldn't know what other characters were thinking on occasion. Because Nesta and Cassian are not mind readers. SJM, the author, is.

Basically yes, I do think that we will get Azriel's inner thoughts. And that's no matter who his love interest is! Whether it's Elain or Gwyn, although y'all know who I think it will be, I do think that we will continue to get Azriel's thoughts beyond his chapter, because the narration has opened up to allow us that insight. I assume that we would also get his love interest's thoughts, and maybe a couple of other characters? I don't think it would go as far afield as ToG did, when we had completely separate chapters about Aelin, Manon, and Chaol/Aedion. And Elide/Lorcan. And probably others I'm forgetting. But I do think we would get some other characters' thoughts!

What I hope that we get from getting more insight into Azriel's thoughts is better understanding of not just what he thinks, but why. He seems to have a lot of self-loathing, he has all that rage, and I truly wonder how he views Mor and Elain. He had the opportunity to talk/think about both in his chapter and he clammed up on both counts. So I am really curious what he is thinking there. I definitely have my suspicions. I wasn't surprised by his chapter one bit, so I suspect that I am right, but time will tell! It would be interesting to learn more about his childhood in a way that let's him find peace. I assume that will happen, since sjm said she's excited to tell his story, his family is such a large part of who he is, and we know based on Nesta's thoughts about her parents in acosf, that sjm won't shy away from delving into the past.

[kellindandrews]

"Third-person is you, sitting opposite the author, as they tell you the wildest shit imaginable about these people they know. First-person is you, sitting opposite the author, and getting all of the Tea from their verbal shitpost about That One Weird Thing They Never Told You About."

@i-want-delfeur This clarification is gold, for one.

But also as a writer who spends So Much Goddamn Time debating which perspective a story needs to be told in and has used both first- and third-person narration in the same universe - the same book even - I want to chime in here.

I dislike first-person narration for the exact reasons I used it for a good portion of my first two books. I find it limiting in that you not only see what the narrator sees, but you are limited to what the narrator observes (until you analyse further, of course, and begin to see what that narrator cannot). And sometimes they're dumb as rocks. I also am not the biggest fan of (reading) the close-up, nitty-gritty, everything-is-all-encompassing-ness of first-person-narrated drama.

But because of these factors and more, I found first-person to be the most wildly effective way to tell the story of a bunch of teenagers stumbling their way through the most fucked-up shit of their lives. When you're fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, you don't understand how limited your worldview is. That first-person limited perspective is Everything. When you're in your teens, everything is The Worst Ever, and in your face, and too big to handle. To read, I find it a little much, and sometimes a bit cringe (even my own writing) but every single one of us ever, in our teens, was also a little much, and a bit cringe. First-person narration conveyed this experience exactly the way I needed it to.

Narrative perspective, like every other facet of writing, is a tool used to tell a story effectively. The "I" is not you, it's the narrator crashing into the room and stumbling over their words because they need to tell you all the wild shit that's happened because seriously, you're not even going to believe this.

wait do people read first person stories and think they're the ones in the story???

Saw people talking about not liking first person, which is fair, but their reasoning was like "I would not do that" and I don't understand that mindset.

First person stories are still about a character. A character making their own decisions. First person isn't about you???? At least I thought it wasn't. What am I missing? I've always seen first person as just a more in-depth look into a character's mind and stricter POV. Not as a reader stand-in.

[notbecauseofvictories]

I'm re-reading the Discworld series for reasons, and honestly the most relatable part of reading these as an adult is how many of the protagonists start out being tired, used to their little routine and vaguely disgruntled by the interruption of the Plot. Sam Vimes wants to lie drunk in a gutter and absolutely doesn't want to be arresting dragons. Rincewind is yanked into every situation he's ever encountered, though he'd much rather be lying in a gutter too. (Minus the alcohol. Plus regretting everything he's ever done said witnessed or even heard about fourth-hand in his whole life.) Granny Weatherwax is deeply suspicious of foreign parts and that includes the next town over; Nanny has leaned into the armor of "nothing ever happens to jolly grannies who terrorize their daughters-in-law and make Saucy Jokes"

Only the young people don't seem to have picked up on this---and that's fortunate, because someone has to run around making things happen, if only so Vimes and Granny and Rincewind have a reason to get up (complaining bitterly the whole time) and put it all to rights. Without Carrot, Margrat, Eric, etc. these characters don't have that reason; they're likely to stay in the metaphorical gutter and keep wondering where it all went wrong or why anything has to change.

............well, that's not quite true. You get the sense that Vetinari knows how much certain people hate the Plot. And as the person sitting behind the metaphorical lighting board of Ankh-Morpork, he takes no small pleasure in forcing the Plot-haters specifically to stand up, and say some lines.

[nerdanel01]

I know it’s not their fault, but Rook thinking they’re disrupting the ritual and instead accidentally unleashing two OP blighted gods is like. Almost Peregrin-Took-waking-the-Balrog levels of tomfoolery.

[ancientroyalblood]

Navigating Point of View: Choosing the Right Perspective for Your Story

The narrative perspective you choose for your story is like the lens through which your readers view the world you’ve created. It shapes their connection to characters, their understanding of events, and the overall experience of your narrative. In this blog post, we’ll delve into the world of narrative perspectives, exploring the different options available to writers and helping them make…

[mckitterick]

[ ID: screenshot of a tweet by @RachelSketching: "people end up unable to see depiction as anything other than endorsement when their entire cultural diet is escapist fun and reassurance. they see something make them uncomfortable and can only assume people are watching horrible shit as vicarious pleasure and are horrified" /ID ]

depiction is not the same as glorification and I need people to get that 

[ampleappleamble]

haven't seen this on here yet so:

in case you don't want to slog through the shitscape that is the bird/letter website, take a peek beneath the cut (shamelessly copied from the something awful forums dungeon meshi thread)

- Her first memory of video games was watching her father playing Wizardry on Famicom, also Dragon Quest, Ultima, and Fire Emblem among others.

- She was a difficult child so her parents didn't let her play. Wizardry is a boring game to watch, but the monster illustrations on the walkthrough evoked her imagination and made her keep watching.

- She only started becoming a serious gamer after the serialization of Dungeon Meshi was locked, for research purposes. Before that, she read fantasy novels such as The Neverending Story (Michael Ende) and The Lord of the Rings (JRR Tolkien).

- The international title for Dungeon Meshi: Delicious in Dungeons was decided by her editor.

- D&D popped up a lot when she researched the history of video games, so she read the rule books, replay novels, and games inspired by D&D.

- One of the first games she studied was the Legend of Grimrock (game's 80% off on Steam atm). Originally, she wanted Dungeon Master (FTL Games) which was famous for "RPG with meals" but hunting down the game and machine was too much.

- She didn't like games other than turn-based RPGs at first, but she decided to stop being picky and play anything that piqued her interest.

- She played Zelda: BotW and TotK on a borrowed Switch from her editor due to the console's scarcity at the time.

- She enjoyed Red Dead Redemption 2 and God of War for their stories. RDR2's incredible attention to detail had Kui engrossed so much that she asked her editor and other mangaka to play it so she could discuss it with them.

- Kui praised The Witcher 3 localization as something only possible with full support from the developer. Cyberpunk 2077 is one of her all-time favorites.

- Papers, Please was her first taste of indie games.

- Disco Elysium is the perfect game for her due to the lack of fighting, intriguing story, charming character interaction, and top-down perspective. She tried playing it in English at first due to an unlikely chance for JP loc, but it was out of her ability. Thus she is forever grateful to Spike Chunsoft for localizing it.

- Kui played Baldur's Gate 3 from the time it was in Early Access. Again, she's grateful for Spike Chunsoft's JP loc. She hoped BG3's success would bring the possibility of JP loc for other titles too, such as Pathfinder: wotr

- She likes games with top-down perspective because they have narration text for monologues and scenery description. Even if the graphic is lacking, the texts show the atmosphere and each character's behavior and psyche. Also, characters that react to your choices.

- She praised Unpacking and House Flipper for being able to tell what kind of person lives there only through their belongings, and that there's no right or wrong for the placements; she would make the best arrangement and then enjoy her hard work while sipping tea.

- The biggest inspiration for Dungeon Meshi was the Cosmic Forge pen from Wizardry VI. With improved graphics from its predecessor, now it could show broken farming tools in the background and many more details that made exploration so much fun.

- At the time of the interview (Dec '23) she still hadn't watched DunMeshi anime, but she attended the recording sessions. She's embarrassed that the dialog she wrote now acted passionately by professionals. Marcille's screaming was wonderful but also made her want to flee.

- Kui was anxious about the CP2077 anime adaptation, but she was relieved it was the Night City she knows and loves.

- Other than minor adjustments, she left it to TRIGGER as to how to adapt

- She's happy that Mitsuda Yasunori was chosen as the anime composer, as she used to play Chrono Cross and rewatched the opening many times.

- Her anticipated games in 2024 are Cloudpunk, Nivalis, and Avowed.

- DunMeshi would be hard to adapt into a game because in the first place, what Kui depicted in the manga are parts that are omitted in games for the sake of brevity.

- If DunMeshi game was Wizardry-like, it'd be told through Laios' perspective and eating was essential not to die

[makesyouevil]

the space you left behind 🎐

[crescentfool]

reunion 🌸

[rueckenfigur-i-am]

True! — nervous — very, very dreadfully nervous I had been and am; but why will you say that I am mad? The disease had sharpened my senses — not destroyed — not dulled them. Above all was the sense of hearing acute. I heard all things in the heaven and in the earth. I heard many things in hell. How, then, am I mad? Hearken! and observe how healthily — how calmly I can tell you the whole story.

(E. A. Poe, „The Tell Tale Heart“)

it never fails to surprise me how some people will simply take every single thing in a story at face value and assume that what the characters are saying or doing or thinking must always be true even when all of the context clues are screaming the opposite

[onionninjasstuff]

greetings followers. i had an idea, blacked out for an entire week and woke up with my fingers and wrists obliterated into bone porridge and with this on my screen. welcome to doomed by the narrative, otherwise known as the world is ending but at least they got the drip, otherwise known as me projecting my severe existential crisis on the innocent sillies. these guys are toast lmfao, but maybe hope isn’t always about survival.

featuring my dumbass sense of humor, questionable creative choices and the following idiots

[the-meme-monarch]

what if i Entirely made up another relationship but with the express intent that they Don’t get together actually. this started out as a lol an lmao even but honestly i think i needed this. cathartically

based on the tags of my post here

👍if you ship scc go away

[overanalysingfandoms]

Ok, so I know without even looking at the Scarian tag that everyone will be calling their interactions this session divorce coded (and that's valid)

However, THIS IS JUST HOW THEY FLIRT

Like, Scar being obsessed with killing Grian and then Grian blowing up his reputation board once he does???? Get a room. They are staring into eachothers eyes daring the other to do something, this is not divorce, this is enrichment

Exhibit B: Immediately after the whole murder and destruction of property debacle, when Grian has promised to hunt Scar until he's out (kinky) and Scar is hiding in Joel's car with the bamboozlers and the family and the sub ones are staring at them Scar LITERALLY DESCRIBES "THEIR SOCKET EYES" like???? only one man staring at you has socket eyes Scar, are you too busy getting lost in them to notice that???? Hmmmmm

Not to mention that after Mumbo's disastrous lava murder attempt Scar immediately runs right over to Grian and stands as close to him as physically possible for NO REASON!!!! Sir, this man has promised to murder you after you spent 50% of the session being obsessed with murdering him and now you're all up in his personal space whispering in his ear???? The least divorced thing I've seen all day, these two are absolutely openly disgustingly insane about eachother IN PUBLIC for everyone to see

AND Grian once more respawned in Scar's bed

This session is just the minecraft equivalent of making out in public and nobody can change my mind

[luthanraels-bignaturals]

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone else talking about how karmic Fitzjames’ fate was.

From the perspective of the artic, it’s a revenge story. His wounds- the wounds he always bragged about, which he got from helping imperialize and plunder, wounds he got from people trying to protect their homes- literally reopening themselves???? This place wants us dead??? “Our ghosts have strong hands and long memories” type beat????

[agentravensong]

Some examples of media I like below the cut and where they fall (in my estimation) for reference (there will be vague spoilers for the media listed). I'd love to hear other people's examples in the notes! (That's the main reason I made this post actually)

UnderTale — grief over what happened pre-loop. it's a ghost story. (1) (2) (literal academic essay about ut as a story about grief)

Outer Wilds — preemptive grief. if you know you know. any time loop story that's about a character trying to save a specific other character who dies in/during the loop also counts as this imo.

In Stars and Time — both. ("you were there all along, but still, you return home.")

Slay the Princess — both, depending on whose perspective you look at the story from. preemptive grief for the end of the world (all worlds), or grief for an existence that you can never return to.

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead — it's a stretch for me, which is funny considering it's set in/around Hamlet, arguably The play about grief. you could maybe argue for "another kind of grief" in the sense of grief for the full lives they will never be able to experience because of the inherent nature of their situation? but i find that a label like "existential dread" is more applicable.

The Prince by Abigail Thorn — preemptive post-loop grief for Hotspur, pre-loop grief for Sam. Discord mutuals understand.

The Stanley Parable (Ultra Deluxe) — fuck if i know.

[shimmershy]

Buttercups and Golden Flowers