#narrative perspective

[bookofmirth]

I believe the next MC in the ACOTAR book is Azriel, but do you think it will only be his pov? Obviously, we’ll have Az’s, but I think we might get Gwyn’s as well. I read somewhere that there are only two books left in the ACOTAR series, so I believe the next book will be Gwynriel and after that it will be Elucien, but I could be wrong. What are your thoughts? And what would you like to see in Azriel’s book? I hope we get a more deeper look into his childhood, self-worth and his mental health.

This is going to be more than you asked for :D Fair warning.

So the thing with the next books is that they will continue to be third person narration, which means that it's not strictly in someone's POV so much as it follows different characters closely. Acosf wasn't technically in Nesta's POV - the narrator, who is not a character but just a mouthpiece, followed Nesta most closely. Then they followed Cassian most often, after Nesta. I actually noticed a moment where it told us Gwyn's thoughts, too. Here is what I mean:

Roslin, Ananke, and Deirdre were close on their heels, propelling Gwyn to push her group harder. She wanted to be the first. Wanted Nesta and Emerie and her to be the ones who wiped the smirks from Azriel’s and Cassian’s faces. Especially Azriel’s.

Gwyn is the one who is thinking "especially Azriel's". However, we wouldn't say that this scene is in her perspective - it's just that the narrator - who again, is a nameless entity - has decided to hone in on what Gwyn is thinking in that moment. Third person close perspective allows us that flexibility, of following whichever character's thoughts are most important at the moment. In that section, the narration actually isn't following anyone else, it's completely removed from Nesta and Cassian. So there is no explanation of it being Nesta who thinks that about Gwyn - it is 100%, without a doubt, the third person narrator telling us what Gwyn is thinking.

Here is another example:

Azriel went wholly still, as if he, too, had felt the shift. As if he, too, were aware that far larger forces peered into that training ring as Gwyn moved.

This is Azriel's "perspective" in the main body of acosf. Not in his chapter. I mean, it would be super weird if Nesta were the one making this observation. It would feel really off, we would be wondering how the hell she could have made such an astute observation and what the hell she would know about "far larger forces". But because it's actually not Nesta's perspective, but a third person narrator, we get that flexibility.

I bring this up because I've been thinking about it for a while haha and this seemed like an apt moment to mention! None of acosf is actually in Nesta's or Cassian's perspective, so much as it's being told through a third person narrator who is completely removed from the action, who has omniscient powers, and is telling us what is going on. Otherwise, we wouldn't know what other characters were thinking on occasion. Because Nesta and Cassian are not mind readers. SJM, the author, is.

Basically yes, I do think that we will get Azriel's inner thoughts. And that's no matter who his love interest is! Whether it's Elain or Gwyn, although y'all know who I think it will be, I do think that we will continue to get Azriel's thoughts beyond his chapter, because the narration has opened up to allow us that insight. I assume that we would also get his love interest's thoughts, and maybe a couple of other characters? I don't think it would go as far afield as ToG did, when we had completely separate chapters about Aelin, Manon, and Chaol/Aedion. And Elide/Lorcan. And probably others I'm forgetting. But I do think we would get some other characters' thoughts!

What I hope that we get from getting more insight into Azriel's thoughts is better understanding of not just what he thinks, but why. He seems to have a lot of self-loathing, he has all that rage, and I truly wonder how he views Mor and Elain. He had the opportunity to talk/think about both in his chapter and he clammed up on both counts. So I am really curious what he is thinking there. I definitely have my suspicions. I wasn't surprised by his chapter one bit, so I suspect that I am right, but time will tell! It would be interesting to learn more about his childhood in a way that let's him find peace. I assume that will happen, since sjm said she's excited to tell his story, his family is such a large part of who he is, and we know based on Nesta's thoughts about her parents in acosf, that sjm won't shy away from delving into the past.

[kellindandrews]

"Third-person is you, sitting opposite the author, as they tell you the wildest shit imaginable about these people they know. First-person is you, sitting opposite the author, and getting all of the Tea from their verbal shitpost about That One Weird Thing They Never Told You About."

@i-want-delfeur This clarification is gold, for one.

But also as a writer who spends So Much Goddamn Time debating which perspective a story needs to be told in and has used both first- and third-person narration in the same universe - the same book even - I want to chime in here.

I dislike first-person narration for the exact reasons I used it for a good portion of my first two books. I find it limiting in that you not only see what the narrator sees, but you are limited to what the narrator observes (until you analyse further, of course, and begin to see what that narrator cannot). And sometimes they're dumb as rocks. I also am not the biggest fan of (reading) the close-up, nitty-gritty, everything-is-all-encompassing-ness of first-person-narrated drama.

But because of these factors and more, I found first-person to be the most wildly effective way to tell the story of a bunch of teenagers stumbling their way through the most fucked-up shit of their lives. When you're fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, you don't understand how limited your worldview is. That first-person limited perspective is Everything. When you're in your teens, everything is The Worst Ever, and in your face, and too big to handle. To read, I find it a little much, and sometimes a bit cringe (even my own writing) but every single one of us ever, in our teens, was also a little much, and a bit cringe. First-person narration conveyed this experience exactly the way I needed it to.

Narrative perspective, like every other facet of writing, is a tool used to tell a story effectively. The "I" is not you, it's the narrator crashing into the room and stumbling over their words because they need to tell you all the wild shit that's happened because seriously, you're not even going to believe this.

wait do people read first person stories and think they're the ones in the story???

Saw people talking about not liking first person, which is fair, but their reasoning was like "I would not do that" and I don't understand that mindset.

First person stories are still about a character. A character making their own decisions. First person isn't about you???? At least I thought it wasn't. What am I missing? I've always seen first person as just a more in-depth look into a character's mind and stricter POV. Not as a reader stand-in.

[notbecauseofvictories]

I'm re-reading the Discworld series for reasons, and honestly the most relatable part of reading these as an adult is how many of the protagonists start out being tired, used to their little routine and vaguely disgruntled by the interruption of the Plot. Sam Vimes wants to lie drunk in a gutter and absolutely doesn't want to be arresting dragons. Rincewind is yanked into every situation he's ever encountered, though he'd much rather be lying in a gutter too. (Minus the alcohol. Plus regretting everything he's ever done said witnessed or even heard about fourth-hand in his whole life.) Granny Weatherwax is deeply suspicious of foreign parts and that includes the next town over; Nanny has leaned into the armor of "nothing ever happens to jolly grannies who terrorize their daughters-in-law and make Saucy Jokes"

Only the young people don't seem to have picked up on this---and that's fortunate, because someone has to run around making things happen, if only so Vimes and Granny and Rincewind have a reason to get up (complaining bitterly the whole time) and put it all to rights. Without Carrot, Margrat, Eric, etc. these characters don't have that reason; they're likely to stay in the metaphorical gutter and keep wondering where it all went wrong or why anything has to change.

............well, that's not quite true. You get the sense that Vetinari knows how much certain people hate the Plot. And as the person sitting behind the metaphorical lighting board of Ankh-Morpork, he takes no small pleasure in forcing the Plot-haters specifically to stand up, and say some lines.

[nerdanel01]

I know it’s not their fault, but Rook thinking they’re disrupting the ritual and instead accidentally unleashing two OP blighted gods is like. Almost Peregrin-Took-waking-the-Balrog levels of tomfoolery.

[ancientroyalblood]

Navigating Point of View: Choosing the Right Perspective for Your Story

The narrative perspective you choose for your story is like the lens through which your readers view the world you’ve created. It shapes their connection to characters, their understanding of events, and the overall experience of your narrative. In this blog post, we’ll delve into the world of narrative perspectives, exploring the different options available to writers and helping them make…

[mckitterick]

[ ID: screenshot of a tweet by @RachelSketching: "people end up unable to see depiction as anything other than endorsement when their entire cultural diet is escapist fun and reassurance. they see something make them uncomfortable and can only assume people are watching horrible shit as vicarious pleasure and are horrified" /ID ]

depiction is not the same as glorification and I need people to get that 

[makesyouevil]

the space you left behind 🎐

[consultingfujoshi]

some thoughts wrt the two established "romances" in severance so far (burt/irving and helly/mark) inspired by @figmentof who pointed out how irving had to find out mark and helly kissed from the corporate video in s2 e1 and how he must have felt seeing his co-workers' love affair like portrayed like that, and how it ties into the queer narrative at play here which uses workplace dynamics and policies as very clear analogues for real-life prejudice against queer couples. I mean, just look at this:

it's not just documented, but celebrated. used as propaganda for how the conditions on the severance floor have improved. proof that the severed workers are happy. and how even though he is unaware of the sociopolitical meaning of all this, lumon is very not-subtly telling him that what he had with burt is inherently lower and less valuable than this.

irving doesn't even know homophobia exists and yet he is still affected by it, it still seeps into every corner of the way his and burt's romance progresses. burt is positioned as an unacceptable love interest from the jump. irv is actively discouraged at every turn from pursuing it. their friendship is viewed with disgust and apprehension from their coworkers. burt working in a different department that's hated by MDR. dylan himself not being homophobic in the sense he opposes their relationship because they're both men but his attempts to keep them apart still has a parallel sort of prejudice behind it and still ultimately has the same effect as if it WERE driven by homophobia. irving is made to feel perverse for wanting contact with burt. he's told this is for his own good.

and then, just as they manage to overcome that immediate resistance from their peers and escape to a place where they can explore this blossoming romance on their own terms, burt retires. for all it matters to irv, he's dead. and then irving is given the option to live the rest of his life with grief that will never heal, or kill himself too, because there is no reality where they get to be together. that's just the way things are. of course they wouldn't get to be together. he was unreasonable and childish for ever hoping that could happen. this is just the way it goes for innies. he's told to get ahold of himself and not make a scene.

but the thing is, the standards are not the same for all. a heterosexual romance gets upheld as the shining example of success and fulfilment for the severed employees, whilst a homosexual romance is ridiculed and invalidated, and written off as something that was simply never meant to be. and even more importantly to irving, a heterosexual romance is APPROVED OF by lumon, and by extension, by kier. irv held back from allowing himself to even call his and burt's relationship a romance, because his god had told him it was wrong, he followed the handbook, thinking this was what kier wanted, and then finding out after suffering the worst heartbreak imaginable because of it, that this WASN'T EVEN TRUE. it's simply just that someone like HIM doesn't get to have something like this. his love is not the kind of love god wants. he does not approve of irv's love. cynical and manipulative though that approval may be (even within the context of the corporate video, the helly/mark romance is only being celebrated to further the narrative that lumon care for their workers, but the point still remains that it was THEIR romance specifically used to suit this end), when your entire life has been in pursuit of that approval, it must be devastating to learn it was never on the cards for you.

he and burt even used the fact kier met and fell in love with his wife in the same circumstances as them to justify this to each other - and they were RIGHT, god does approve of falling in love with your coworkers - this simply just doesn't apply to them specifically. and if irving needed any more proof that he no longer has a place at lumon, that he's better off not existing at all than existing with this pain that cannot be remedied, pain that won't even be acknowledged for what it is, a symptom of a sickness which plagues the entire severance system, pain that he is simply expected to choke down and get over - this is that proof.

and that's the POINT. they're TELLING us that this is unjust, and there's a double standard. they're using the ways the innies experience romance and the difference in lumon's reaction (lumon being the collective of all the management we've seen, lumon as a singular entity) to burt/irving vs helly/mark to comment on how queer people are not afforded the same level of respect or validation IN REAL LIFE, for their attachments, their love, their pain, their suffering. it is NOT just incidental that irving's romance is with a man. it would not WORK if his love interest was a woman. the POINT is that they are both men and how that puts them at a disadvantage, even if they aren't aware of the prejudices of the outside world, even if they don't TECHNICALLY apply on the severance floor, there are very clear analogues which still end up oppressing them in equivalent ways that they would be suffering if this were a normal workplace in the outside world.

it genuinely sickens me to my stomach that even in a world so divorced from reality and the sensibilities of regular society, a queer couple is still made to suffer and feel inferior in a way that perfectly mirrors their real-life counterparts. how they will never, EVER be allowed to exist in a world where their love could thrive freely and uninhibited - they never get to taste the joy our world has to offer people like them, but they are still somehow subjected to all the pain it has to offer them regardless. it's such horrifically devastating writing. it makes my skin crawl. I can't stop thinking about it

[crescentfool]

reunion 🌸

[rueckenfigur-i-am]

True! — nervous — very, very dreadfully nervous I had been and am; but why will you say that I am mad? The disease had sharpened my senses — not destroyed — not dulled them. Above all was the sense of hearing acute. I heard all things in the heaven and in the earth. I heard many things in hell. How, then, am I mad? Hearken! and observe how healthily — how calmly I can tell you the whole story.

(E. A. Poe, „The Tell Tale Heart“)

it never fails to surprise me how some people will simply take every single thing in a story at face value and assume that what the characters are saying or doing or thinking must always be true even when all of the context clues are screaming the opposite

[nellasbookplanet]

The thing is, I can get behind most of the desicions bells hells have taken regarding predathos, it’s more that the road to getting there didn’t really work or was sometimes skipped over entirely in favor of circular discussions.

'Keeping predathos sealed will never work in the long run now that the truth is out, and we'd rather see us as the ones controlling it/keeping it from harming people than risk ludinus/someone else using it as a weapon in the future' and 'the exandrian accord will never agree to anything that would risk predathos being freed/endanger the gods and therefore we must make this desicion without their input' and 'as long as the betrayers exist as gods there will be a risk of a second calamity and it’s wise to seek a way to minimize that power differential' and 'if the gods remain gods and predathos can't be killed they will eventually clash and mortals will suffer in the struggle' and 'the primes will never seek to kill the betrayers or assist mortals in doing so because that is their family' and 'the gods themselves have been hurting and unable to heal since leaving tengar, and perhaps the change of permanently becoming mortals not as strictly tied to their domains will allow them change previously withheld from them by their natures' are all valid arguments.

But the hells rarely if ever touch on these arguments, rather focusing in on individual slights and imagined ideas of the gods being tyrants needing to be humbled. They never slow down to discuss the practical implications of the changes they want to implement (the gods will be back on their side of the divine gate now!), or to consider the good the gods and their followers do (have we already forgotten the changebringer helping fcg find self-worth or the everlight helping resurrect Laudna?), or the nuance behind their harsher decisions and actions (aeor was going to murder them! the primordials were in the process of exterminating all mortals!!), or the sacrifices the primes have made to protect mortals (they went to war against their own family!), or the importance of faith to much of the exandrian populace. No matter how many sensible arguments there are for the end decision, if the characters won’t engage with said arguments leading up to it while dismissing anything opposing it the decision will still feel largely empty and self-centered in the end.

[onionninjasstuff]

greetings followers. i had an idea, blacked out for an entire week and woke up with my fingers and wrists obliterated into bone porridge and with this on my screen. welcome to doomed by the narrative, otherwise known as the world is ending but at least they got the drip, otherwise known as me projecting my severe existential crisis on the innocent sillies. these guys are toast lmfao, but maybe hope isn’t always about survival.

featuring my dumbass sense of humor, questionable creative choices and the following idiots

[wardensantoineandevka]

the fact that people keep interpreting the word "consequences" to be exactly and only "punishment" and knee-jerk responding to it with "why do you want my precious Bells Hells pookies punished" frankly says a lot about more about you than it does about those who feel that C3 as a narrative never followed through on consequences for anything

this is ESPECIALLY evident when it is remembered that we're all talking about a story and doing narrative analysis and media critique here, yes, all of us, even the casual commentaries, debriefs and post-mortems of the campaign is analysis. consequences. narrative follow through. the consequential story beat that carries the weight and concluded a prior set up. results, negative or positive or neutral, that are incurred as a consequence of what happened before. a continuity of narrative logic. actions that result in the expected and prior established weight and outcome. feeling like things consistently matter and affect things meaningfully on various levels, including the personal.

[the-meme-monarch]

what if i Entirely made up another relationship but with the express intent that they Don’t get together actually. this started out as a lol an lmao even but honestly i think i needed this. cathartically

based on the tags of my post here

👍if you ship scc go away

[overanalysingfandoms]

Ok, so I know without even looking at the Scarian tag that everyone will be calling their interactions this session divorce coded (and that's valid)

However, THIS IS JUST HOW THEY FLIRT

Like, Scar being obsessed with killing Grian and then Grian blowing up his reputation board once he does???? Get a room. They are staring into eachothers eyes daring the other to do something, this is not divorce, this is enrichment

Exhibit B: Immediately after the whole murder and destruction of property debacle, when Grian has promised to hunt Scar until he's out (kinky) and Scar is hiding in Joel's car with the bamboozlers and the family and the sub ones are staring at them Scar LITERALLY DESCRIBES "THEIR SOCKET EYES" like???? only one man staring at you has socket eyes Scar, are you too busy getting lost in them to notice that???? Hmmmmm

Not to mention that after Mumbo's disastrous lava murder attempt Scar immediately runs right over to Grian and stands as close to him as physically possible for NO REASON!!!! Sir, this man has promised to murder you after you spent 50% of the session being obsessed with murdering him and now you're all up in his personal space whispering in his ear???? The least divorced thing I've seen all day, these two are absolutely openly disgustingly insane about eachother IN PUBLIC for everyone to see

AND Grian once more respawned in Scar's bed

This session is just the minecraft equivalent of making out in public and nobody can change my mind

[luthanraels-bignaturals]

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone else talking about how karmic Fitzjames’ fate was.

From the perspective of the artic, it’s a revenge story. His wounds- the wounds he always bragged about, which he got from helping imperialize and plunder, wounds he got from people trying to protect their homes- literally reopening themselves???? This place wants us dead??? “Our ghosts have strong hands and long memories” type beat????