#Mystra: You think Ao will make YOU a god?

[y-rhywbeth2]

I feel like this part of the novels is relevant to a character or two in the various Baldur's Gate games:

“You desired godhood, control over your destiny, and great power,” Ao said. “You will have only two of these - godhood and power - to exercise as you will in the Realm of the Dead. And all of the suffering in Toril will be yours as well, to cause and inflict as you wish. But you will never know contentment or happiness again.” “But the thing you have desired most, Lord Cyric, will never come to pass. I am your master now. You serve me… and your worshipers. I believe you will find that you now have less freedom than you had as a child in the alleys of Zhentil Keep.”

That and the thing where everybody's getting mad at the gods, and the mortals think they'd be better and care... No: the rules fundamentally don't allow it, because that isn't how this works or what gods are. You are a cog in the cosmic machine of the universe, or a line of computer script or whatever analogy: do your damn job.

[dekariosclan]

With you, I forget my goddess

So, I have completed Bg3 twice now, but on both runs I’ve romanced Gale (truly shocking, I know) and therefore I had never seen Gale’s non-romance discussion with Tav about the Annals of Karsus.

I recently got to see it, and what surprised me the most is how extremely angry and bitter Gale is about Mystra’s treatment of him. Rightfully and understandably so, but it’s something we do not see or experience in the romance version.

This got me thinking about the difference in Gale’s reactions in the friendship vs romance scenes, why they are different, and also how this relates to the complaints I’ve read about Gale ‘still not being over Mystra even when romancing Tav’.

(Note that I’m mainly going to focus on the portions of each dialogue that relate to Mystra in particular, and I’m not referencing the ‘alternate’ boat scene w/Gale—where he tells you beforehand that he will return the crown to her—since he doesn’t mention Mystra at all there.)

Screencaps below are from @munmomuu’s wonderful video on YouTube. The screencaps take place after Gale has read the Karsus book. If you are romancing him, before you reach this point, the conversation ends because he tells you he wants to discuss it later “in private,” during the boat scene.

But in a friendship run, he will explain what he’s read to you and then begin to make his case for using the crown:

Gale: Some gods may delude themselves into believing they care about their worshippers, but when it comes down to it - we’re all expendable. Children to be appeased, not respected.

Gale: I worshipped Mystra loyally for years, and in that time she granted me the barest sliver of the power I was ready to wield.

Gale: Even with the fate of the world at stake, she had little more to offer me than the means of blowing myself up at a more convenient time. She’s done nothing to help us.

There then comes a dialogue branch where Tav can ask this:

And Gale replies, with understandable bitterness:

Gale: She sent me to die.

Look at how angry he is during this whole exchange, and how he focuses all that anger on the past, and what Mystra has done to him (or not done, as he points out she’s offered them no help at all.)

— — —

Now let’s compare this to his Mystra dialogue in the boat scene:

Gale: I’ve already defied Mystra. Had I followed her command, there’d be nothing left of me but a smoking crater.

Gale: The tadpoles, the orb - these threats to our existence - the gods could aid us if they wished, but instead they cower behind Ao. So let us act ourselves.

Gale: I used to believe Mystra’s forgiveness was worth dying for. But I was wrong. You showed me just how much I have to live for.

Notice how there’s no fiery anger at Mystra here, just Gale’s resigned belief that the Gods have failed them.

So what’s the key component that makes Gale react so differently in each scenario?

It is, of course, Tav.

More specifically, it’s Tav’s love for him, which has clearly helped his heart heal from the trauma that he’s experienced. Yes, Tav’s friendship is extremely important as well, and yes, Gale is still insecure even with Tav’s love (‘you would really prefer me as I am?’) but the extreme bitterness, the anger, all of that is gone. Here, Gale is no longer hung up on Mystra and the past; he’s looking to the future. Because now that he has Tav, what he desires most is to take his life and his fate back from the Gods and into his own hands—with Tav at his side.

The irony is that some people complain about Gale ‘not being over Mystra’ while he’s actively romancing Tav, but just look at the difference in the dialogue! Look at how focused he is on Mystra when he is not romancing Tav, and then how she becomes a mere afterthought once Tav has claimed his heart.

I really enjoyed seeing this level of detail. I think it perfectly illustrates Gale’s frame of mind in each scenario, as well as showing the positive impact Tav’s love has on Gale.

And last but not least—it confirms that Gale was not exaggerating when he says this:

Gale: With you, I forget my goddess. I love you.

— — —

[ssvnormandysr-1]

Something I find hilarious about god Gale ending is that he becomes exactly the type of god he said he wouldn't be. On the boat, he said he's essentially sick of gods hiding behind AO, not helping mortals out despite having the ability to, but still demand prayers and devotions from them. he said his mortal heart would keep him true and he would be making gods better, instead of joining them. That doesn't happen. God Gale becomes exactly the type of gods he despised - whether he realizes it or not. He says that he's the god of ambition, not god of "consequence of ambition" when asked if he would support evil ambitions as well. Well! By that logic he absolutely would've supported the chosens of the dead three. He cares about establishing his domain and portfolio - whatever moral consequences happen from that, he can no longer care any less.

if you play as Gale origin, when talking to almost every single companion you have a dialogue option to say basically "have you considered praying to me? I might help out if you do..." thereby demanding their prayer & faith - his help does not come freely, if it comes at all.

he swore to keep his mortal heart but one of the first things he says in the epilogue was "gods, was Faerûn always so dull?" If you romanced him and tell him that he's no longer the man you fell in love with, he says "I guess I shouldn't have expected a mortal to understand." Gale, my guy, you literally became a god literally only 6 months ago. If this is how you are after 6 months idk how you'd be after years.

he says he wishes to better the gods - all he has done is avoid Mystra because he knows she would not give up her domain and also most likely destroy him, and make a dry joke about another god. Sure, perhaps without it being shown on screen he has done some things to "better the gods" but somehow I doubt it. if you play as his origin, his dialogue options to "how have you been doing" consists only of basically "oh I've been establishing my domain"

idk man . I think god Gale is fucking hilarious. He became a god 6 no ago and thinks he's the total hotshot now. He cannot once not mention the fact that he's a god and you should pray to him. He can turn Tara into a hairless cat. He wears a fucking toga when he can wear literally anything else he wants as a god. He's a cringelord supreme and it's so funny.

[shewhowas39]

some very important Mystra context

all right, i'm back on my forgotten realms lore bullshit again. this time about Mystra, because i see a lot of misunderstanding around her (and for good reason, there have been MULTIPLE Mystras.) but also because there's a narrative that Gale was groomed that i'd like to gently push back against.

so, very condensed history here, but the first goddess of magic was Mystryl. she was replaced by the first Mystra in like the -300s DR (BG3 takes place in 1492DR, this will come up later.) the new Mystra was goddess of magic until the Time of troubles (1358 DR, i believe), when Ao (big powerful god) got real pissy because the Dead Three stole the Tablets of Fate in order to try and take on more power. as a result, Ao forced all the gods to walk among mortals in their avatar forms. this was a huge event in forgotten realms history.

so Mystra was like "this is bullshit" and tried to go back to the heavens. Helm, serving Ao, ended up killing her to stop her from doing this.

meanwhile, there's a human mortal who calls herself Midnight who is essentially an adventurer. Midnight ended up killing Myrkul, and Ao was like "nice work, you're the new Mystra" and Midnight ascended to godhood.

when she ascended, Midnight also inherited the essences of the old Mystra AND Mystryl. (if this sounds confusing, that's because it is. forgotten realms lore gets wild.)

so Midnight, now also called Mystra, is the new goddess of magic. but in 1385DR, not even 30 years after ascending, Shar gets pissed becasue she wants to control the weave, so she tasks Cyric, another recently ascended god who used to be mortal, to go kill New Mystra. he does so, and this causes the spellplague, a 10 year long event in which a bunch of awful shit happened with magic and tons of wizards died.

but New Mystra wasn't entirely dead. her faint essence still existed. so in like 1479 DR (13 years before BG3 takes place) Elminster senses her presence. she's possessing a bear, it's all she's capable of at this time. she tasks Elminster with finding mages to be her Chosen, so that they can help her get stronger again. this is probably when Elminster was like "so i know this guy named Gale." at this point int ime, Gale would have been an adult most likely, because i think we can all agree he's in his 30s in BG3.

still, even with Elminster's help and her new Chosen, New Mystra didn't become a fully revived goddess until 1487 DR (5 years before BG3 takes place.)

and this is why the "Gale was groomed" narrative doesn't quite work for me. now, let me be clear, i'm not saying their relationship was healthy. there was an obvious power dynamic problem, and her telling him to blow himself up is objectively shitty. however, Gale would have been an adult when they met, even if he met her when she was still too weak toeven have a body beyond that of a bear.

i know there's a letter from Elminster to god Gale that says soemthing about fidning Gale as a child, but Mystra would have been essentially a wisp on the wind at this time. Elminster may have already been looking for talented wizards to help bring her back, but he dind't even have the ability to connect with her until he sensed her as a bear in 1479 DR, at which point - again - Gale was an adult.

but, moving away from that narrative, i also wanted to bring this up becuse it makes Gale's possible outcome of ascending VERY interesting, becuse the current Mystra, formerly Midnight, was also a human who ascended. however, in her case, this was bestowed on her by a very powerful god as a "reward" for killing Myrkul. (i say "reward" in quotes because it also put a target on her back with Shar and got her killed not too long after so you know....ascension ain't all that pretty.)

anyway, i thought this might be of interest to some of y'all, because reading up on Mystra lore can be confusing as hell since there have been multiple Mystras, but that context does really make her relationship with Gale way more complicated and (to me) way more interesting.

tl;dr - the Mystra that is Gale's ex is not the same Mystra who has been a god for thousands of years. she has her essence and the essence of Mystryl, the first goddess of magic, but was originally a human woman who ascended and then got murdered real bad and then came back only VERY recently thanks to Elminister.

[galebrainrot2024]

GalexFemYou Boat Scene 18+

Summary: FemReaderxGale NSFW 18+ on the boat in the astral plane after you and Gale discuss the crown. Tried to be a little slower and tender in this one. Done at the request of another, thank you for the idea! :) Content: Explicit and slow piv sex, Minors DNI!

Master List | Read on Ao3

“I don’t think I deserve you at times - I told you of my ambitions, the likes of which many would baulk at - and yet, you remain at my side. Permit me to show you something, please? Indulge me - a little boat voyage, that’s all.” 

Despite your hesitation, you obliged - Gale meant more than words could express and you knew you’d do whatever you needed to help him see that. 

“Astra navigabimus.” As he uttered the words, you felt your consciousness and body shift, pulling away from the material plane and cast elsewhere. It was jarring and surreal, yet you kept your eyes shut, trusting Gale implicitly. 

“Few mortals ever glimpse what you’re about to see,” Gale said in a husky, quiet voice as his warm hand engulfed yours. “Don’t be alarmed, I’m here with you. Open your eyes.” 

You inhaled, the air around you a chilled mist. Goosebumps undulated across your skin as your eyes fluttered open, absorbing the impossible swirls of purple and blue iridescence that surrounded you. As you drift on the small wooden boat, your fingers lithely traced the air, trying to capture the gossamer fog. 

You turned to Gale, his face bright and the impossible colors swirled in his dark eyes. “The outer planes… this is where gods dwell. Where they observe us from afar. Where they make play things of us.” He frowned, gesturing to the skies, “They would keep all of this from us - the power, the possibilities. They only want us to serve them, pray to them… die for them. What if we didn’t need them and welded their power instead to help ourselves in all the ways they refuse to?” Gale’s voice was thick with anticipation and delirium, “I could make that happen. I could make this illusion a reality… with you by my side.” 

You froze, gripped by the possibility of what he offered. You’d be lying if you said the thought wasn’t tantalizing… yet, as he sat here before you, pleading and desperate for approval, you knew that Gale - the man before you - was enough. He would always be enough. When was the last time he’d been told that?

Had he ever been told? 

“I don’t need the stars, Gale,” you laced your fingers with his and brought his palm to your lips, brushing them against the skin. “I have you.” 

Your romantic gesture fell on deaf ears as Gale insisted: “Then have me, but have the best, possible version of me. The tadpole, the orb, these threats to our existence, the gods could aid us if they wished and instead they cower behind Ao. With the power of the crown, any foe would be rendered impotent, any obstacle dwarfed by our might.” Gale sighed, clutching your hands like a penitent seeking redemption. “I used to believe Mystra was worth dying for. I was wrong. You showed me how much I have to live for. With you, I forget my goddess.” Your heart thrummed violently, threatening to jump from your throat and your body instinctively began to scoot forward, craving him. “I love you. Tell me you feel the same, that you want what I want… please..” Gale’s voice broke and you leaned forward, cupping his face in your hands and rested your forehead to his. 

“I love you for the man you are,” you said, brushing your lips tenderly to his and he shuddered, emitting a gentle groan. Your knees were flush to his and you moved forward, chasing the adrenaline that flowed through your veins like a raging river. 

“Think of what I offer, the vastness of eternity, the Weave at our fingertips… you’d really prefer me as I am?” Gale looked into your eyes, the dark pools beseeching earnestly for your truth. Could you mean it? 

“You’re everything I need you to be,” you murmured before allowing your fingers to twine into his hair, pulling him close as your lips captured his. His gentle moan ignited the blaze within you and you feel the heat between your thighs stir. 

Gale returned your kiss passionately, hungrily, a man starved with disbelief that mortality would be enough. “I hope you’re right. Godly power I can live without but you - you’re everything.” His hands ran up your thighs, brushing against the soft skin and teasingly trailed closer to the source of your desire. “You put the stars to shame… let’s sit here awhile, I want to drink you in.” He brushed his tongue across your lower lip before he sought entrance, your tongues gliding together in the familiar wonton dance. He tasted faintly of earl gray and something rich - perhaps a lingering flavor of the nights meal. 

Your bodies entangled with familiarity, and you felt Gale’s smirk widen against your lips. He pulled back for a moment to caress your cheek and rested his forehead to yours, “Would you be opposed to staying here a bit longer?” He murmured as his fingers traced the edge of your shirt, tickling your torso beneath. You shivered, feeling the electricity burn and you whimpered as his cool hands pulled the shirt over your head. He licked his lips as his eyes consumed you, his pupils blown wide with desire, his cheeks flushed a dark pink. You shook your head, the bitter mist shrouding you as heat swelled in your center. 

Gale leaned forward, his lips brushing against the freckles that littered your shoulder and your hands trailed under his shirt, lifting. He obliged, leaning backward as you slowly pulled his shirt off. Typically, Gale and you would ravage one another if given the opportunity. 

Tonight, though, felt different. You craved him tenderly, wanting each moment to be a standalone symphony. You traced the orb, how its tendrils licked up his neck and brought your lips to the pattern. He sighed, pulling you closer to him and the seats of the boat seemed to de-materialize as you and Gale stared at one another, admiring. 

A plush blanket appeared beneath you and you rose a brow curiously as your fingers ran over the sensual fabric. Gale wrapped his arms around your torso to pull you into his lap. Your legs circled his waist and you cupped his face in yours, allowing your lips to meet in a supple, painfully slow kiss. You moaned as his tongue sought yours, as he slipped it into your mouth greedily, your hips rolling against his for friction. You felt the girth between his thighs stir as your hips rocked and you pressed yourself tighter to him as the kiss deepened. The carnal need grew, rooted in your core as the lustful dance began. 

Gale’s lithe fingers hooked into the waist of your pants and you gasped, the iciness of his touch juxtaposing the primal heat pooling within you. He took his time unlacing your pants before pushing them unhurriedly down. His eyes flick down to your clothed sex and you heard him intake his breath sharply. Gale leaned forward, kissing you lecherously. Each move of his tongue was precise and painfully slow, and you felt your body begin to squirm impatiently. You felt him grin against your lips as he cupped your chin and pulled your face closer to his as his tongue indulged. 

Your fingers clumsily worked to remove his trousers and he chuckled, “Let me lend you a hand,” he said as his fingers grazed yours. He shook out of the pants and your eyes widened as you admired the firm tent pressed against his underwear. He guided your hand, slipping it beneath his underwear and he groaned as your fingers wrapped around his arousal. He was warm, firm and you felt a surge of dripping arousal soak your underwear. He groaned as your hand circled him and began to deftly pump, matching his agonizingly steady pace. His fingers sought entrance between the cloth of your undergarments and sex and trailed along your inner thigh, right where the seam met your skin. 

You mewled, grinding your hips against his, feeling his erection glide against your covered arousal. Your hand worked quicker before his hand covered yours, his breath hot and quiet as he murmured, “Let’s take our time tonight…” Your body was desperate, wanted to move with a vicious urgency yet Gale continued with such excruciating gentleness. A light brush would likely be enough to send you off the cliff. 

His fingers found their way beneath your underwear and you squirmed, seeking him and friction. He chuckled darkly before slipping his fingers away, “The more impatient you are, the longer I’ll wait…” he teased and you leaned forward, biting into his neck. The sinful noise that fell from his lips sent another wave of arousal through you. 

“Gale, please,” you begged, your wetness seeping from your underwear and onto his, leaving evidence of your need. Gale traced your lips with his fingers and you shivered, licking the fingers before you before pulling them into your mouth. Gale groaned, his hips bucking upwards into you as you sucked on his fingers. “Touch me,” you whimpered against his fingers and he brought his slick hand into your underwear. 

“Rather needy tonight,” Gale teased again and he moaned as his fingers slipped between your folds, “Gods, how divine… how eager you are for me…” as he slid his fingers between your thighs you rolled your hips, whimpering again. His thumb circled your clit, the movements unrushed despite your protests. Gale kissed you again as you gripped his shaft, encircling him as you toyed with him, wanting to feel him inside of you. Gale, as if reading your mind, said, “Have you been patient enough?” 

You shook your head, moving your hips, deprived of his fingers. You felt him slip a few into you then, stretching you slowly and massaging you. The sudden entrance made you shudder violently and your arms wrapped around his neck, your fingers pressing into his back as you moaned. You nestled your face in the crook of his neck, biting down to stifle your unholy sounds. 

“No need to suppress yourself,” Gale murmured, pushing your hair back as he thrusted his fingers harder into you, forcing your body to tighten around him with arousal. “I want to hear you,” he demanded, pressing deeper into you and against the deepest source of your arousal. You cried out and bit down on his neck again. 

You lifted your hips, bringing them down onto his fingers and you mumbled against his neck, “I need you, I need more…” 

“Woe be it from me to deny you…” he murmured, pushing your underwear off your body and did the same to himself. He held himself for a moment, stabilizing as you brought your hips over his erection. Your hands gripped his shoulders and you gazed into his lustful, brown pools and felt him fill you. Your mouth watered as you brought yourself down deliberately only allowing the tip of him in. 

He whimpered, thrusting his hips up and you pulled back, smirking. “Why the rush?” You retorted and he growled, surrendering to you. You rolled your hips before bringing yourself fully over him, allowing him to stretch you full and welcomed him into your slick cunt. You both moaned as he filled you and he thrusted into you aggressively, gripping your hips. Your lips brush against his neck, his jaw, until your tongues are tangled again and he drove into you. Your bodies moved of their own accord now, both of you desperate for release and pleasure, the sensations overwhelming. Every fiber of your being thrummed with sin and you moved quicker, pulling him deeper into you and clenching around his erection. He moaned as you did, gripping your waist tighter, using his other hand to pull your hair back and kiss you. Sweat began to cover you both as your movements became carnal, needy - your breathing jagged and unsteady as you felt yourself swell with bliss and ecstasy. 

“I….” Gale moaned, the kiss sloppy and wet, “I… please…” his voice was raspy and deep as he thrusted violently into you and you cried out, begging for more, needing more. Abruptly he flipped you over so you were on your stomach, he hovering over you and pulled your hair back to kiss you. You moaned as you felt him enter you again from behind, your hips rolling backward to bring him further into you. He held your hair to steady himself, the pain from the pull overstimulating as he filled you. Your mouth was full of hot saliva and you whimpered as he grew more urgent, your bodies moving together in a steady, unholy rhythm. He pushed so hard against you that you felt a sharp pain and cried out, enough that he paused for a moment to whisper into your ear, “Are you alright?” And you nod, delirious from the pleasure, and you heard him whisper, “Come for me, then.” 

You press your face into the blanket and muffle your cries as he pumps deeper, harder, and his hand wraps in front of you for his thumb to circle your clit. It’s too much. You writhed and every cell in your body seized, tensing in preperation until you heard him groan gutturally, his hot climax filling you as your own climax roiled through you. The unadulterated bliss that pulsed through you was divine, both of your bodies moving in shared harmony, in your shared symphony of pleasure. Gale collapsed onto you, his lips pressing to your ear and neck as he murmured praises, how much he loved you, how much he adored you and when your breath returned to you, you rolled onto your back, cupping his face in your hands. “Mortality has its perks..” You murmured, your eyes fluttering shut as you smirked. 

Gale laughed, pulling you tighter to his chest, kissing your forehead. You settled into a comfortable silence, allowing the boat to rock you as you both marveled at how lucky you both were to have one another. “I can’t wait to explore your body a thousand more ways… eternity wouldn’t be enough for me.” 

[genovianxprince]

OK I think I understand some of why some people in the fandom choose to make Mystra some kind of a terrible, grooming abuser to Gale. It's because every one of the companions has like a specific person you can point to and say, that is the abuser. That right there is the person who has caused the companion grievous harm. Gale and Mystra are a little more complex than that.

Shadowheart and Lae'zel technically have a whole cult/culture backing up the abuse, but you can still pretty directly point to Viconia and Shar for Shadowheart, and ultimately Vlaakith for Lae'zel as well as just... every Githyanki she ever met, except for Kith'rak Voss.

Wyll has Mizora, Karlach had Zariel and Gortash, Astarion has Cazador, all very obvious and self explanatory in the game. They were innocent, kidnapped, coerced, sold, played like a damn fiddle. But Gale?

Gale has Mystra, a goddess he loves, who also loves him, and the things they did to each other were both fucked up, and a lot of the fault totally lies with Gale! The other companions all had external forces affecting them. Gale's was mostly internal. He refused to believe he was good enough. "As inconceivable as it seems to me now, I shared a bed with a goddess and I still wasn't satisfied." A literal goddess, the one he favored, the one he was in love with, who favored and loved him back, consistently told him he was perfect as he was and he straight up did not believe her. He placed himself on a higher and higher pedestal he could never reach the top of because if he wasn't constantly climbing to some nebulous goal of perfection, then could he be good enough for Mystra?

Y'know, instead of just believing the woman he was in love with. And I get it! Insecurities suck! Especially when you've been the gifted child your entire life, perfectly talented at something that all the adults in your life go nuts over. But also, it is extremely arrogant to assume you know better than your literal goddess and be like "yo, there's a missing piece of the Weave and I can go get it" like... Mystra is the Weave, she would have known and probably sent someone on a quest if it were actually Her Weave and not Karsus' Weave.

Gale is INCREDIBLY hubristic and he keeps falling for that trap. He's overconfident. Hell, even after his year in isolation where he comes out humbled, a small group of people believing in him for a short amount of time gets him to go "omg, crown of karsus = godhood, I can totally do that and tell the gods they SUCK and overthrow Ao's rules!"

Like, babyboy, no.

Of course, Mystra is not without some fault. After Gale's initial... Folly-up, she just ignores him for a year. Damn, girl, what the hell! Well. You see. The Netherese orb is a fragment of the magic that Karsus used to try to ascend and steal her throne with. The magic that she realized was going to kill everything if she didn't sacrifice herself. For a moment, all magic ceased to exist, including Mystryl herself, and Karsus died. Then Mystra came into being. Gale tells you a short version of this story himself! So it kind of makes sense that Mystra would see this shard of magic and just... kinda have a trauma reaction! And to gods, time flows differently. It wouldn't shock me to learn she didn't realize it had been a year by the time Gale left his Tower due to mind flayer shenanigans. Naturally, she does not want to discuss the thing she's so terrified of, and just tries to have it destroyed without her having to touch it—the plan to have Gale blow himself up on the Absolute itself, and she would save his soul. And even after he disobeys her instruction, she still allows the orb to feed on the true Weave! She still lets him live without fear of blowing up randomly, even though it greatly distresses her to let this magic that killed her once feed on her own life force.

Then he reaches the city, and reads The Annals of Karsus, and realizes she's going to have to explain, despite not wanting to. And she summons him. Tells him exactly what's in his chest. Asks him to turn over the Crown and she will destroy the orb and face her own trauma, because Gale... doesn't want to die. She understands that. And she still loves him and his big beautiful brain despite how stupid he's been, and she wants to have him as her Chosen again.

Things will never be the same, of course. They both fucked up. Gave each other a bad time. But in the end, they forgive each other and move past it. Not as a couple, because things broke too much for that. But they can have a healthy relationship as Goddess and Chosen once more.

And that is what sets Gale and his trauma apart from the companions. He doesn't have a direct abuser or live in a horrific abusive society. He almost killed the goddess of all magic a second time and she had an understandably harsh reaction to that, even if it was still too harsh. I just don't believe it's only Mystra who fucked up here. Not by a long shot. Much of it lies squarely with Gale.

And, as for the grooming allegations [as far as people trying to say it is canon], literally just no. She's a True Neutral goddess. Gale literally tells you that you are not his first mortal lover, he had a few before he ever fell into Mystra's bed, and you're just the first since the breakup about a year ago. The game doesn't shy away from sex and sexual abuse in the least. Why on Earth would this be something hidden behind several layers of nonexistent subtext? It's definitely fun for AU's, but by Ahghairon's lost nose, no, it's not canon!

[mywitchcultblr]

Odd question for you:

So, the humor of Batstarion aside, do some people just elect to read their own biases into things involving Ascended Astarion. I recall being early in the fandom and assuming based on general commentary he just locked you in his basement and then molests you.

Then: when I actually ascended him and am looking forward to this whole fantasy I just get a goofy, camp vampire Lord who literally lets you live your life. Where do I get a refund? Where is my vampire daddy? lol

Am I alone in this???

No, you are not alone. I found a lot of people who have a strong negative opinion about endings for bg3 companion... How I should explain it in English? Playing the telephone game? Where they are only receiving bits of information and never really experienced the ending themselves or at least never really thought about it deeply because they already developed a bias from these fragmented information and encouragement from like-minded people who share the same bias. Thus, the truth and nuance became diluted amidst the buzz and discourse. For example, Gale endings

GALE HAS NO EVIL ENDING. YES, THE GOD ENDING IS NOT EVIL

People mistook his ambition and huge ego as evil? I think this rooted from "God Gale doesn't propose Tav/Durge unlike human gale, so God ending must have been bad"

"Gale become power hungry, so it must be the evil ending and a bad ending" and "Larian said power is bad"

Gale is a neutral guy, as a human he is neutral good and as a God he became a neutral aligned God. His ascension to Godhood doesn't turn him into Bane or Bhaal, developing an ego big enough to the point he became a god doesn't make him evil or this ending evil. You might dislike it, but objectively, this ending is not evil or bad...

Gale bad ending is him dying and never resurrected, never recruited or sacrificed to BOAAL because they led to his untimely death before he can destroy the brain, reach the crown, or determine what he wanted, how he will approach Mystra...

"But Mystra will kill God Gale because he challenged her!" That is a possibility in his origin ending, before the epilogue is even released, now we got to see new and improved epilogue Gale can take his lover to his realm where they will enjoy their life as Gods, and he has a lot of plan, and although he kinda insinuates that he wanted to challenge Mystra, maybe Tav or Durge can persuade him to not do it

"What if he has no romantic partner?" Maybe he will challenge her, or maybe he will not. I found the ending where Gale immediately going after Mystra to be frustrating, it feels like Larian insisting on the 'power bad' thing in such an on the nose and irritating manner

Gale might have a big ego but HE IS NOT AN IDIOT, he is not a barbarian with 8 intellect, even when he's drunk on power he is still a highly intellectual person/being, and surely he should know that it will take a lot of time and resource for him to be able to challenge Mystra, is it even a good idea to fight her? What would AO say?

He should just focus on his own domain and followers

Same thing with Wyll, this guy HAS NO EVIL ENDING. WYLL CANNOT BE CORRUPTED. Yet there are people out there who say that him becoming a Duke is an evil ending, HOW?!

Now, Astarion... God help us all with this guy. The moment I saw his picture for the first time, I know his fandom will be a disaster

White, sassy, morally gray, handsome, twink, vampire with a sad backstory... The perfect tumblr sexyman, I love him, but I knew the conversation about him will be a mess and headache inducing

Ascendant Astarion is NOT a bad ending, is it evil? Yes, is it bad? No.

It is bad for the city to have yet another vampire lord, an even MORE powerful vampire lord who has no vampirism weakness, but this is NOT bad for him. He enjoyed the power, he enjoyed the freedom, and he finally reclaimed everything that Cazador took from him and even more. I found the notion that ascended astarion 'is not truly free' to be baffling because Cazador is gone, no one can compel him and enslave him anymore, and he is freed from all vampirism weakness.

So long Cazador is dead, both spawn and ascended astarion will be free and have the choice to lead the life they wanted. An outsider moral interpretation of his choice is not his own opinion

"Ascended Astarion regret his choice." No, he never did. I didn't find a single conversation or scene that say he regrets his ascension

"Ascended Astarion is meaner and more evil, so this fate is bad." Your feeling about him doesn't translate to what he feels and how he sees his life and choice...

Or like you said about people claimed. "Astarion will lock Tav/Durge in his basement and molest them" Now, is ascendant romance more toxic and darker than spawn romance? Yes (although it is pretty tame by vampire/yandere standard) but how he treat his lover also depends on Tav/Durge attitude towards him, their personality, their goal and YOUR OWN ideas/ interpretation...

Baldur's Gate give you 'hard canon' and things that you can interpret on your own because it is dungeon & dragons! Hard canon or fixed canon is something like "Orin will die either way" and "If you don't spare nightsong then Last Light will be destroyed." and then there are things that you can decide and interpret on your own such as how your Tav/Durge fare after the last battle, their background, their family, and how their romance with companions play out

There are dialogues or scenes that hinted the future but at the same time there are several options and each dialogue option will lead to a different universe such as whatever you encourage Wyll to be the blade of avernus or becoming a Duke

What irritated me is that there's people who doesn't like his ascension romance, and they be like "Well I don't like this romance and i don't like him now, so I see your Tav/Durge WILL NEVER BE HAPPY WITH HIM AND IT IS A FACT!" NO, THAT IS NOT HOW IT IS WORK!

You cannot enforce your own narrative perspective into other people's. "What about the 'freedom' dialogue in patch 5?! If you clash with Astarion he will-" like I said each dialogue choice lead to a branching multiverse, just because one person have a conflict with ascended astarion doesn't mean my Tav who is very devoted to him have the same problem or will not be happy

Also, patch 5 confirmed the theory that Astarion turned his lover into a bride/groom instead of regular spawn. If you chose a dialogue option that hinted Tav/Durge feel trapped and doubted if they are truly flourishing, then Astarion will say something like (I'm paraphrasing here) "Well, I give you everything! And I will make sure that you live your best life, even if you don't appreciate it!"

A bride/groom has an emotional and mental link with their creator, if Tav/Durge is not happy then Ascended Astarion will feel unhappy as well. Mind you my Tav (Astaroth) doesn't say he feels trapped, he said that he is happy with Astarion and grateful to share everything with him and then Astarion said that he is blessed to be with Astaroth as well then he also said:

"I may have power, but it would be nothing without you. You complete me."

I don't do Karlach romance, and although I have my own thoughts that if Astaroth romanced her (tbh the guy is gay so he has to be bi/pan in alternate universe) in the end he will feel a bit disappointed with being trapped in hell, doesn't mean I have the rights to ENFORCE that Karlach/Tav romance in general will be unhappy and tragic just because of MY OWN interpretation...

People also shouldn't enforce their own choice for Astarion as

"THE TRUE AND CORRECT CHOICE FOR ASTARION AND IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ME YOU ARE DELUSIONAL AND DUMB"

[baldurs-gape]

Noise Complaint

By their very nature, gods expected things to happen as they wanted. Clashes between them were inevitable but thankfully rare. Generally, Ao had a good grasp on how to handle disputes before they spilled into other realms. Alas, it wasn't always possible to intervene or to reach a sufficiently acceptable solution which was how so many wars and the like started. Then there were times when the argument stayed within Elysium and Ao desperately wished it wouldn't. This was one such instance.

"You've got to do something!" Tyr hissed, teeth gritted.

If it had been just Mystra coming to Ao, it would have been so much easier. Jilted lovers were common among gods and Ao could write a handbook on dealing with them at this point. Unfortunately, Mystra hadn't been the first to approach about the issue. She wasn't even the second.

Even Shar was there, arms crossed over her chest.

"My domain carries the echoes, this has to cease."

Helm nodded along, "He should be kicked out. We don't need this kind of disturbance here."

Murmurs of agreement went up from the gathered gods. When even Loviatar appeared to lodge a complaint, Ao knew it was serious. Head in hand, it was difficult to think. Ao had to admit that it wasn't the gathered gods that were the main source of the issue. No, it was the moans that carried through to all corners of Elysium since the new god arrived. It was all well and good to force one's way into their ranks, but surely some decorum and manners were to be expected. But no. The God of Ambition seemed to have taken his role rather seriously, assuming his personal ambition was to piss every other god off.

"Very well. I will pay him a visit." Cries of relief and mutters of 'about time' melded into a choir of pacified gods. It seemed Ao had a trip to make.

Travel through Elysium wasn't as most imagined. Especially not for a being like Ao, who just had to think and the realms warped around the wish.

Stepping into the freshly created realm of ambition, Ao peered around. It seemed very...confused. A cross between human creature comforts and grandiose excess. Obviously the new god had issues letting go of his past. An obnoxious, breathy moan reminded Ao about the purpose of the visit. At least the realm had rooms and doors still so Ao knocked on the door where the noise came from and counted out a decade on the Material Plane before entering. Regret was imminent.

There was the newest god, kneeling on the floor, deep purple ropes criss-crossing his body in a restraint and a harness. On the bed in front of him was the abomination of the Vampire Ascendent, booted foot pressed against the god's naked crotch.

"Look, puppy. We have an audience." As he spoke, the abomination turned the god's head. Ao didn't know whether to be glad or mortified to not have learnt the new god's name yet. In a way it didn't matter because the god whimpered, hips twitching against the boot.

All words were gone in every living, dead and not yet invented language. Ao had seen it all, thought nothing could be a surprise anymore. Being wrong was both a thrill and a disappointment.

A century passed in the Material Plane. Then another. The Vampire Ascendent shrugged and turned away from Ao.

"Darling." One single word and the new god's focus was back on him. "My little treasure, you've been so good for me, haven't you? I think you deserve a reward."

No god, old or new, should whine in submission like that. Ao regretted perceiving what happened next. It seemed ambition did away with shame.

"Good boy, Gale," the Vampire Ascendent purred, eyes fixed on Ao and a dangerous smile on his lips. "You're my good pup, aren't you?"

Very slowly, the door closed as Ao backed out of the room and turned away. Not before hearing a raspy, needy "Astarion" from Gale's lips. An eternity passed as the moans turned to cries then quieted into murmurs of affection and adoration that was close to worship.

The other gods needed to be soothed, reassured. Ao hadn't done anything other than walk in, get an eyeful then leave. Kicking the new God of Ambition out with no explanation didn't bode well. As a human, he had already achieved godhood once, and given that his realm was ambition, Ao had no doubt that he'd manage to rise again a second time. There was nothing for it. Elysium was to be abandoned to ambition. Ao set about creating a new, quiet and harmonius realm. One that had no place for ambition or vampires or noise complaints.

[tavtime]

One of the things I've been thinking a lot about (as I very, very slowly write my longfic about it) is this theme in BG3 of conflict between gods or godlike authorities versus ordinary people. I think the things it has to say about how "the Great and the Good" treat people they consider their inferiors, and where real power is actually located in that dynamic, are very interesting.

Like. Ok. Literally every full companion's personal arc is concerned with that companion being used as a pawn by an actor with greater scope of influence than themselves: Karlach is on the run from Zariel; Lae'zel finds herself in direct conflict with her people's god-queen; Shadowheart's entire relationship with Shar is dependent on her compliance to being bent to Shar's purposes at the expense of all other connections; Mystra tells Gale to blow himself up to earn her forgiveness and derail a competing power. Even Astarion and Wyll, who aren't beholden to gods per se, are struggling against being manipulated by those who hold sway far beyond the scope of their own (Cazador is not just powerful as a vampire but implied to be socially powerful as well, and Wyll's conflict is not just with Mizora but also his father in his capacity more broadly representing the needs of Baldur's Gate).

And the interesting thing with each of these, what gets brought up time and again, is that these gods and betters aren't actually the ones exercising power over the situation. They're trying, via manipulation of those in service to them, but they aren't actually exerting influence directly in most cases. The implication is of indifference, impotence, or being themselves beholden to a greater power (Gale does make an offhand comment re: how willing Ao would be to overlook Mystra's interference in mortal affairs). The people who actually end up exercising power in this situation are the little people, the ones nominally being used.

Which, Thing One, I think this is a very intentional storytelling choice that yields fantastic contrast to the interactions between the controlled party and the antagonists. The Dead Three are a threat in large part because they were willing to get their handa dirty and operate on the material plane. The first real boss the player faces, Ketheric, is not just chosen of Myrkul directly wielding some of his power, but transforms physically into his avatar. Orin and, to a lesser extent, Gortash as well, can be analyzed along similar lines.

But Thing Two, which I think is really the thing I want to spend the most time turning over, is that the story takes a pretty clear position on moral and personal value in this situation. Basically, in the conflict between the ordinary people of the world and its gods and paragons, the narrative comes down very firmly on the side of the people who are considered pawns or disposable. The protagonists are the ones winning this fight, not their gods, and every time a character gets the opportunity to rise above their "station" to be on equal footing with those powers it's framed negatively. Durge embracing Bhaal, Astarion completing the Ascension, Shadowheart becoming a Dark Justiciar, Gale reforging the crown, Karlach becoming a mind flayer, any Tav or Durge choosing to dominate the brain - all of these involve the character gaining a large amount of power, and all of them are framed by the narrative as "bad endings" (though whether you as the player personally feel differently about them is left up to you, of course). The sole exception to this might be Wyll, who has the opportunity to step into his father's shoes, but even then, there is some aspect of power only being framed as "good" when it is used in service of the people.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that there is an allegory here about class conflict and the power inherent to ordinary people which I think is worthwhile to examine, and is a crucial part of any thorough analysis of BG3's themes.

[moonmaidensblessing]

I love Mystra as a character 100% she is an interesting character and I adore a morally questionable woman with my whole heart in fiction but I’m trying to get why ppl get so up in arms about her. The concept of a god having a relationship with a mortal is nothing new; I wrote a paper last semester comparing Gale to Odysseus from the Odyssey for the very reason they both had relationships with goddesses. It’s an age old situation in storytelling and it’s not going anywhere.

I want to posit the idea that Gale’s specific dynamic with Mystra is meant to say more about his character than her, though, since he’s a major character. His relationship with her is meant to tell us how powerful he is as a magic-wielder and his connection with it is beyond what the average magic user could ever dream of (looking at you, Rolan). He is written in a way where his hubris could easily lead him down a bad path as it had done several times for him already. He is messing with things beyond his scope, though, as he learns more and gains more power. A line I always feel people ignore is the one where he admits Mystra gave him a boundary, appropriately seeing what it was (Netherese magic that had almost killed her before), and tend to majorly focus on the fact that she asks him to sacrifice himself with that same dangerous magic. I mean, i can see a perspective that she sees Gale as potentially dangerous since he disregards her request ultimately for his own purposes. Keep in mind that he not only has the parasite, but the orb would not be kept docile forever. He became dangerous not only to himself but to anyone unfortunate enough to be too close should something happen. He poses an immense threat after crossing Mystra’s boundary (his exact words in the game) to Faerûn, the Weave itself, etc.

Does this make Gale evil? No. He had the potential to be misguided, though, in the story, and I think that’s the writers’ point was how easy it can be to fall from might and grace with a few bad choices.

To be frank, the dynamic between Gale and Mystra is already at a power imbalance. It isn’t like the other characters’ relationships with their respective gods because they do not have a romantic/sexual relationship with them. That is a curious distinction, which would lend to it being an unusual practice in the pantheon of the gods. However, not in the world of literature, I reiterate. Odysseus has intimate encounters with several goddesses in his journey, but the power dynamic is written a lot differently than how Mystra and Gale are written.

If it is not common practice for the gods to have intimate interactions with mortals, then it stands to reason that it is a discouraged practice among them. We hear a line in the game where Gale says Ao would not permit Mystra to interfere with their quest directly, and it makes me believe there are rules for the gods when it comes to behavior and actions. For some reason, Mystra is permitted to have romantic relationships with her worshippers, and I have to wonder why that is. Apparently it isn’t common for her to pick someone, either, as she only chooses the most powerful magic users, her chosen ones. And that’s where we start to run into the power imbalances.

In a way, Gale seeks the missing magic for Mystra to feel equal to her, a dynamic that would never change no matter what he did. Who is really to blame? The one who wasn’t content in his role, or the god who appointed him to that role in the first place? Was Mystra trying to influence Gale to stop him reaching beyond mortal limitations, fearing (for him or perhaps herself even) that he would go too far one day just like Karsus before him? Did she have valid reasons to fear for herself and the world of magic, or was it a selfish act borne out of fear of losing control of her realm and devotees? I don’t think people are thinking this deeply about it.

I think why it bugs me in a way that kids keep giving her the “bitchy mean girl” treatment is because it sort of cheapens the intent of the characters and what its supposed to mean to the story. I mean It’s funny but I cannot look at a single piece of fan art online that features her without 15 ppl all unironically claiming acts of violence against a video game character. I guess its ultimately harmless, and it’s good they are able to recognize the harm that is present there, but it feels like a simple, immature take just all on its own.

Oh and I definitely hate the take that Mystra groomed him. That makes me pretty sick, and it isn’t a one to one comparison at all. I sincerely doubt that was the writers intention at all, and as someone who was it makes me pretty mad to see. But I understand since most of those saying it are most likely children who don’t have a full grasp of it. Grooming is intentionally selecting a person with little to no agency, usually a child, and trying to influence them into inappropriate situations. I feel like comparing that dynamic to grooming demeans and lessens the importance of it in real life. Gale was not a child, he has agency in his life, and it’s cheapening even to the character to imply he had no control over what was happening to him. Unless I’m missing some crucial piece of lore here, I don’t think Mystra picked Gale as her chosen and romantic partner to make him find Karsus’ tome and unleash the magic that nearly killed her and destroyed all magic.

I get it, though, why young people jump to that conclusion. Again, I’m glad that they see the surface level issue. I’m glad they can recognize danger and harm. That’s good. I’d never discourage someone, especially children, in being vigilant with those sorts of things.

And of course all this said not so much in defense of Mystra (though I love her as a character) but more in defense of the people who wrote it. This game is so well written and it’s one of the reasons why I love it so much. The fact that I CAN write an essay for class about it makes me over the moon and goes to show just how much depth and meaning is present.

[meonlyred]

I did it so you won't have to. (Actually do it once, it was interesting to see.) After finishing act 2 for the first time, I had to know what happens if you let Gale use the orb at the Absolute's chamber. I had to see. Bless this game for the amount of times it gives your more than enough rope to hang yourself. I will push that big red button, so help me....

It is an actual ending, credits and all, not just a "game over."

Transcript: Narrator: "Beneath the smoking ashes of Moonrise Towers, the elder brain lies destroyed. But what of the tadpoles it commanded? Freed of the Absolute's control, they will complete their transformations. A plague of illithids will soon descend on the Sword Coast, enslaving all they do not infect. It is an ending, of sorts. Though not the one destiny had in store for you."

[The chamber of the Absolute and Moonrise Towers is consumed in white light while Elminster looks on in horror.]

Part of me thought that Mystra might pull an "Abraham and his sacrificial son" kind of thing. A shitty test of faith where Gale is supposed to go through with his instructions but then saved at the last minute. To right up to that edge and begin to step off only to be pulled back by a divine intervention. "You passed my test, blah blah you have faith in me etc etc." With Mystra being a true neutral god, it honestly could have gone either way.

And yeah, NOPE! No, her intentions were to have Gale, the rest of the party, the Harpers, all the prisoners at Moonrise, the army of the Absolute, the Dead Three chosen, and the Absolute die and then also that the entire Sword Coast is then either enslaved or turned into illitihids. Cool cool cool.

But hey! the gods are safe from a new challenger! 🙂👍

In my opinion, the truly messed up part is that by sending Elminster (someone Gale looks up to and trusts) and by, who knows how many years, of Mystra making Gale believe that she knows best, Gale sincerely believes that doing this is the best option.

Its sold to him as the only option when it very clearly is not. (Obviously, this is meta knowledge he doesn't have but Mystra is a god. She would damn well know what will happen.) Its also very far from even being the best option. Mystra had no intention on looking for the best option at all.

The gods in Faerûn rarely intervene, blah blah Lord Ao doesn't like it blah blah etc. So they usually put their trust in mortals, obviously giving them small tokens of power to help. I find this such an interesting depiction of a neutral god and how she influences one of her followers. Interesting and deeply fucked up. The greater threat to the gods was eliminated but it was replaced by a great threat to mortals. There is nothing benevolent about it, no greater good of a few die so others might live. Just cold calculus of the quickest and easiest way to kill the Absolute (a competitor god) and also get rid another rival's last remaining relics. I honestly wonder if it even mattered to Mystra that is was a former mortal lover who delivered this end. I really don't think she cared that it was Gale or some random other followers, just as long as the threat to her and the other gods was destroyed.

[dekariosclan]

I have returned and with new realisation that makes me love Gale more. After you talk with him in the boat scene and he says the closest thing to a deserving canvas on which to place your beauty, like this man just said Ao the place where gods dwell including Mystra, you out shine it and deserve a more fitting one like if anyone says that Gale still even likes Mystra he just said her realm is not enough to show how brilliantly you shine, just AAHHH!!!

This is a lovely observation OP and so very true! Gale does indeed essentially declare that the Outer Planes, which is the home of the Gods and a place of infinite beauty & wonder, is “mid” in comparison to Tav. In Gale’s discerning opinion, it’s nice, it’s just not *quite* worthy of Tav. But it’s the only thing in existence close enough, so it’ll have to do.

It’s another great example of how he loves Tav so much more than he ever loved Mystra. I am continually surprised when I see people post about how they feel Gale still isn’t over Mystra (??) when he says quotes like the one you shared. Or how he says “I love you more than I’ve ever loved anyone—mortal or immortal,” in the ending where he proposes. Or these:

He really, truly does love Tav more than he ever loved Mystra. And it doesn’t matter that Mystra presents herself as a bedazzled skinny female with “classical beauty.” How boring. How droll. She’s still just a sparkly icicle when it comes to being a lover, when it comes to giving Gale the companionship he deserves and the romantic bond he craves.

Tav can be scarred, wrinkled, considered ‘ugly’, have an ‘undesirable’ body type, or even be a straight-up mindflayer—so long as they have a decent, kind heart and return Gale’s affection, Gale will love them and think they are the most beautiful thing he’s ever beheld—the Gods, the stars, & the Outer Planes be damned.

[teiasviago]

i have to laugh bc i saw someone say mystra "was done so dirty in bg3" like LMFAO the last mystra literally had wizards duking it out with each other to become her chosen or whatever and then it got so bad that eventually one of the mystra's was like "alright this sucks ass now nevermind". and then there was the time mystra possessed a mortal woman and had seven daughters as her with the woman's husband and that fucking killed the woman and the husband abandoned them bc he'd had no idea and then mystra saddled elminster with the youngest three. the wizard fights was how azuth became mystra's chosen and then mystra's daughters (who aren't aasimar like aylin, just very powerful wizards/sorcerers) are also her chosen, though i think two of them are dead now. and she ALSO put elminster through a bunch of bullshit tests and started like right after his whole family was murdered or whatever so like that man can have his cheese from my camp, i'll chew him out later. and like yeah all that was from the first mystra but one of the first things this new mystra has done is wreck gale so i don't think that speaks highly to her character nor is out of line with previous incarnations. she may be "neutral good" but only as it pertains to her portfolio, in my view - she is "good" for protecting magic and the chaos of some actions cancel out with the lawfulness of her stringent rules for the use of magic. AND even if she was basically dead for most of gale's life and they only met "face to face" thirteen years before the events of the game and started dating then, when gale was already an adult, i would still consider it grooming. he was raised in a society - especially in waterdeep bc it's a center of magic - that venerates "good" aligned gods because they're literally irrefutably real. gale was obviously taught to value the weave and hold great respect for mystra, he attended one of the most prestigious academies of magic, and he was mentored by elminster himself. he was in a unique position to be used by mystra as wizards before him had been used - notably elminster himself, but also literally azuth, the patron lesser deity of wizards. (and the letters elminster sends to gale in his origin and if he becomes a god speak to the guy holding so much guilt for being party to the abuse gale faced - that he should have done more to prevent gale's downfall, especially bc he is one of mystra's survivors.) and then azuth's last line in the series of books in bg3 about the gods is literally about forever yearning for mystra. so then gale wasn't even pulling the idea of getting more power out of his ass or anything, someone else was given power/allowed to obtain it to the point of becoming a god in service to mystra. he disobeyed mystra's boundaries for using magic/gaining power, yes, but in his origin when you talk to mystra and say "i just wanted to be worthy of you" or w/e she says that gale was already worthy and just lacked patience. so again he wasn't even told a solid no it may have been more of a "no right now" no. (i say maybe bc atp mystra might just be gaslighting gale, trying to pretend that she hadn't been 100% forever and ever denying him, i wouldn't put it past her.) of course what's taken into account for deciding godly alignment is going to be a bit different than for beings without a godly portfolio. like!!!!! mystra can be dead in my eyes and still have neutral good alignment as a goddess bc for her most of all it's fucking complicated, seeing as she is like... the lifeblood of the realms or whatever. anyways. to end this... long-winded rant. part of what make's gale's story and romance so compelling is that he's completely correct when he says that the gods don't truly care about mortals, that they just cower behind ao. they can't really care bc they forget what it's like to be mortal, they depend on having mortal souls. they are just dressed up devils, dealing in souls. no good is wholly "good." they all have the power to save lives, to change lives for the better, yet squalor remains. it's an imperfect universe. compelling!

[wellthebardsdead]

Lucy: *smiling as she watches her friends celebrate their victory from the doorway of the elfsong. The crown destroyed, and Mystra with it after a cleverly placed particular orb she’d removed from a certain wizards chest, detonated, leaving just enough time for Gale to arrive safely back in the Tabernacle* …

Raphael: *standing beside her, still in his helldusk armour from the battle. One horn broken and a wing a bit worse for wear, but alive with her* Ao won’t be pleased about Mystras death.

Lucy: he’ll find another Mystra. Until then, the anchors will hold the weave. It serves Elminster right, he couldn’t even be asked to come to Gale himself with that news. He sent a simulacrum instead, and, made it eat our rations when we were running low. The bastard.

Raphael: *chuckles* and you think I’m, one, for theatrics. *sighs and shakes his head* are you, certain this is what you want? This life foisted upon you? Eternity is a terribly long time. Even longer still in the Hells. Selûne and Lathander are both vouching for you in the heavens. Along with a few other gods scattered amongst their circles… you could continue to garner their favour and ascend.

Lucy: unless Ao himself appears before me and allows you and I both to ascend, that’s not happening. Besides… the gods are all hypocrites… Mystra was a groomer, Lathander two faced, Selûne abandoned her daughter for killing someone who intended to enslave her, and old withers, he created Bane, Baal and Murkyl because he was bored. No… I think I’ll be of more use down there… and if anything else… I will enjoy punishing people who deserve it.

Raphael: *offers his hand to her and smiles* shall we take our leave then?

Lucy: *nods and smiles, taking his hand in hers and giggling as he twirls her around and into his arms as hellfire consumes them both*

*6 months later*

Lucy: *arrives to the party late tentatively carrying a glass jar* I’m here- Karlach- where’s- oh! There you are honey!! *hurries over giving her a hug*

Karlach: Hey look who finally made it! *gives her a hug* Ruling Avernus is keeping you busy I take it?

Lucy: ugh you have no idea, I found something very important for you though! In zariel- well, my, study. *opens the jar letting a beating heart float out* it’s yours… from your mum.

Karlach: m-my heart. You- my real heart!

Lucy: she kept it as a trophy, or to use as leverage over you… either way. I can put it back in, and, maybe give Mizora hers back, I hear she’s developed permanent hypothermia, the human heart I ripped from Gortash apparently doesn’t supply enough heat for a cambion.

Karlach: YES! Please yes! *rips open her shirt* hurry!

Lucy: I- you- th-that wasn’t necessary but- thank you, they look smashing as always. *snaps her fingers making her heart appear in her chest. And Mizoras one disappear* there we go-

Karlach: *placing her hands over her heart as she openly weeps* mum, mummy.

Lucy: … *opens her wings and holds up her hands, placing them on her face* I’m here.

Karlach: *sobs and pulls her into a hug* thank you.

Lucy: *smiles and rocks her slowly as her wings cuddle her close* Taters.

Karlach: t-taters.

*meanwhile*

Mizora: *pacing about somewhere in the exile, shivering, feeling like she’s lost part of herself without the engine or a devils heart to keep her warm* c-curse you Lucifer, c-curse you k-Karlach-cu- *coughs up gortash’s heart as her old one appears back in her chest* Agh! *gasps and faceplants forward onto the stone floor, hitting the ground so hard on impact she lets out a surprised fart* nghh…

[maegalkarven]

I just thought of redeemed!Durge run AU in which Elder Brain won (Emperor or Orpheus were not strong enough/Elder Brain grew too powerful under the influence of the crown), so the Great Design was set into motion, gods freaked out (bc no one needed Ao coming to whoop their asses), grouped together and pulled the time rug back.

Which made the entire team go back to the moment right before Ketheric's death (bc it's the last point of no return, after his death Brain gets freed from one part of the command and it just spirals from that).

Gods also pull the kind of dimensional skype call like in Pillars of Eternity. Basically gods summon the team.

Which leads to the most epic yet hilarious encounter.

Imagine: the entire team (with Isobel, Aylin, Jaheira, Halsin and Minthara, let's make it a good run) standing in front of Gods in some liminal space.

I'm thinking the Dead Three, Selune and Shar (imagine how fucked up things have to be for them to be at the same place and be civil-ish), Mystra and maybe Loviathar. Oh, and Jergal is also here.

And it's all pathos and importance of stopping the Netherbrain before the world gets destroyed (and before Ao looks down and starts whooping ass.)

But at the same time most of these gods are evil, they do not know how to work together and they hold grudges.

Shar and Selune are specially seated at the further sides from each other. Myrkul is seated between Bhaal and Bane because these two reached some new levels of hatred and so he is working as a god-shield.

Bhaal blames Bane for Durge's fallout, Bane retorts he would have a better use for Durge than Bhaal, and anyway Durge ruined a perfectly good tyrant, look at him, he has feelings now! (Gortash looks offended.)

Selune stares at Ketheric without blinking and so is Shar (no one sees her eyes, but Ketheric FEELS her gaze). Myrkul tries his best not to bring the twins' attention his way. When it is brought, he argues what at least he gave Ketheric what he wanted and points at Isobel. Isobel is like "DID I ASK THO?"

Mystra says everything is Jergal's fault, if only he didn't give away his power to these three dipshits-

Which brings said dipshits fury over her head.

Loviathar just happy to see Durge who took her blessing oh so nicely. Bhaal demands Bane calls off his wife who is stealing Bhaal's child.

Someone asks "Why when some bullshit happens, it's always you three?" (meaning the dead three),to that Bhaal retorts what he wasn't there when Bane and Myrkul stole the Tablets of Fate from Ao and brought the entire Time of Troubles on their heads.

Myrkul says it's because no one invited him.

Selune says the Time of Troubles was REALLY fucked up and they lost Mystra.

Mystra is like: "I am literally here," to which she gets response "I liked the previous one better".

And the entire time the mortals (and Aylin with Durge) are like: ...so we're screwed, right?

And also NONE of the chosen can be killed bc doing that will free Netherbrain.

Karlach tells Mystra to fuck off. The entire team supports it, to Gale's bewilderment.

Jaheira stares daggers at Bhaal. Like for real tries to intimidate a god with a stare.

Orin has to be restrained bc killing her is not an option, but she will not cooperate.

Shar goes to hurt and intimidate Shadowheart in some way, to which Selune, Aylin and Isobel are like: "Literally fuck off".

Bhaal straight up tells Orin she was destined to fail bc all she was - a trial for Durge. Orin DOES NOT take it well.

Durge and Bhaal ready to kill each other because this family is MESSED UP. The team trying to hold Durge down bc "Stop, you idiot! He'll just kill you again!"

Karlach not taking it well what Gortash shouldn't be killed. Same for Jaheira and Halsin, but about Ketheric. Aylin is more reasonable about it, but deep inside she's seething.

The team snitching on Mystra to the other gods like "she told Gale to detonate netherise orb!"

Shar: I also liked the previous Mystra better.

Mystra: WTF this is so uncalled for

The gods: Did Shar and Selune just agree on something????

[house-of-musez]

I'm going to be honest, I don't really like Wyll. I find his character sort of... boring? The changes that I've heard that happened from EA to release Wyll definitely don't help that; The sanitization of his character seemed to definitely hurt his individuality. Beyond that, I don't really have any specific gripes.

I just don't like him personally, and that's okay. I know he's a good character, some people love him, and I'm fine with that. It's personal preference, nothing more.

I think Gale can be really annoying and petulant at times. If you say something he disagrees with he often has lines along the line of "be careful saying that to someone with a nuke in their chest :P" which might have been intended to be jokey but just comes off as really entitled. He claims to be glad to be around peers, yet when someone tries to do something magical that he could have done he gets butthurt. When he's humming and hawing over making a moonlantern because it'd go against Mystra's will or whatever, I did it instead since I was playing as Shadowheart. The shadow-weave is her God's domain. It felt apt. He proceeded to get really upset and talked about beginners luck.

That being said, I like Gale. I think he's really sweet, and the way he speaks is always really entertaining. His little battlefield voice lines are absolutely lovely, and his ongoing theme of being basically gifted kid syndrome personified really resonates with me.

I think it's important to realize that you can have gripes with a character and still like them. They don't have to be perfect, flawless characters with no negative qualities in order for you to like them. On the inverse, characters don't have to be objectively bad for you to not like them. The problem comes when you start mistakes Objective value with Subjective value.

Everyone is free to dislike a character personally, but arguing the objective merit of a character is entirely different.

So for the love of Ao, please. Stop saying "X character is bad" when you really mean "I personally don’t vibe with X character". Stop saying "X character is perfect and any criticisms are wrong" when you really mean "I like X character and am willing to look past their flaws".

I beg of you. It is so annoying when people do these things.