#Mormon beliefs about Zion

[mindfulldsliving]

Responding to Paul Gee: Understanding the New Jerusalem and Joseph Smith’s Teachings

Paul Gee’s critiques of Joseph Smith’s teachings on the New Jerusalem raise important questions for Latter-day Saints and curious readers alike. He claims that Joseph Smith’s prophecies about building the New Jerusalem are false. But does this argument hold up under scrutiny? Mormons claim that they will build the New Jerusalem. This was taught by Joseph Smith. Unfortunately, it is a false…

[inbabylontheywept]

Is your url based on the song Babylon canon?? I recently found the song through a camp that I’m doing and it’s absolutely beautiful :)

Kinda. My URL is based Psalms 137, which the Babylon Canon is quoting. When I first chose this username, I wasn't planning on that account being for writing - I was using it to access the exmormon subreddit. I eventually burned out on them because they were so, so bitter, and I just... I wasn't. I was sad. I would describe myself as very religious, but not at all spiritual. I loved my friends, I loved the ward, I loved all the insane bullshit that happened in scouts, I loved that there were grown men who had busy lives and kids of their own that worked together to give me adventures in my childhood. I talk about the disasters because they're memorable, but these were not incompetent people. For every disaster there were 10 things that just went great.

I wasn't angry. The worst thing they did was hurt people near me, and when people you love do bad things to other people you love, it's just miserable. I wish they'd treated all of my people as good as they treated me. They loved the house, but not its crows.

Anyway, I chose that Psalm for a handful of reasons.

It's a homesick song. And after leaving, I felt homesick. I sat down by the river and I hung my harp on the poplars, and I wept when I remembered Zion.

I know this is incredibly dorky - but the only piece of media I ever found as a Mormon boy that took the religion seriously was Fallout New Vegas. They weren't a punchline in that game. They wrote Mormons that had deep regrets and complicated pasts, who had lived through and did terrible things, and I loved them for it. The most well executed example of this was a character named Joshua Graham, and he spits Pslams 137 at you in a key moment, and changed my brain chemistry. Watch this if you want to get a sense of the character. Or this. Either works.

I had a really, really, crazy seminary teacher. I've got two stories (story 1, story 2) about him, but frankly, I could write like, ten. He talked about Psalms 137 a lot. He had a very strong belief in God's willingness to inflict a terrible vengeance, but he also had like, beliefs on what it took for that vengeance to be invoked. One of the most interesting people I've met in my entire life, and deeply thus deeply entwined with my relationship with Mormonism.

Good question, and well asked! I've had some people just jump into thinking I'm a Zionist. I'm not.

[creature-wizard]

Fritz Springmeier and Cisco Wheeler: Two Of The Most Dangerous Conspiracy Theorists Most People Have Never Heard Of

Fritz Springmeier is a conspiracy theorist who has written a number of absolute doorstoppers (the content of his books is poorly arranged and highly repetitive) claiming the existence of a global satanic cult that secretly controls the world - basically, your typical Protocols of Zion redux shit. Some of his books were written with Cisco Wheeler, a(n alleged) multiple system he claims to have deprogrammed from Illuminati mind control in 1994. Their work has been deeply influential on today's general belief in alter programming. Even if you've never read Wheeler and Springmeier's work directly, you may have come across their ideas. If you've seen anything about jewel programming, flower programming, alpha/beta/delta/epsilon programming, etc.? That's from them. Writers such as Unwelcome Ozian and Svali get their material from their work (in fact, Unwelcome Ozian's book Chainless Slaves literally copypastes some of their material), and people such as Ellen P. Lacter and Alison Miller of the ISSTD/RAMCOA-SIG frequently cite Svali. Furthermore, their work has had a huge impact on David Icke's reptilian alien conspiracy theories.

Here's a selection (yes, seriously, the following wall of text is only a small sample) of their claims from their trilogy series on Illuminati mind control (They Know Not What They Do - An Illustrated Guide To Monarch Mind Control, The Illuminati Formula Used To Create An Undetectable Total Mind Controlled Slave, and Deeper Insights Into The Illuminati Formula), which they wrote/published in the mid to late 1990's:

The Illuminati is a multi-generational satanic cult made up of thirteen elite bloodlines, who are working behind the scenes to enthrone the Antichrist in the year 2000. (It's been over twenty years, still no Antichrist.)

The Illuminati is behind the French Revolution and the Abolition movement. (Conspiracy theories invented by people who were pro-monarchy and pro-slavery.)

The Illuminati is pushing for gay rights as part of their plan to bring the Antichrist into power.

The Illuminati creates effeminate gay men by dosing pregnant mothers with progesterone and estrogen.

The Illuminati practices "trauma-based mind control," which in this context refers to an alleged (and very unsubstantiated) practice of inflicting brutal tortures to trigger the formation of alters, which will be programmed for various tasks, and made accessible to programmers via special codes and triggers.

TBMC practices often (though not always) take the form of satanic rituals. (Evil is always very, very theatrical in the minds of conspiracy theorists.)

The Illuminati's rituals are "based upon the most ancient mystery religions," because "one of the secrets of the Mystery Religions, especially the Egyptian Isis mystery religion was the ability to use drugs and torture to create multiple personalities." (Citation needed, Fritz.)

The European witch hunts were actually justified, because Europe was full of satanic practitioners of trauma-based mind control. (Seriously, what kind of ghoul claims the witch hunts were in any way justified?)

The Nazis' eugenics program wasn't actually about eugenics. It was actually a front for researching mind control, and that Project Monarch was based on research conducted by Dr. Josef Mengele, whom they claim was an "adept in Caballistic magic" assisted by "Askenazi hasidic black magic adepts." (This is a variation on the claim that Jews actually orchestrated the Holocaust)

Groups that are part of the Illuminati and practice Monarch mind control include (but are not limited to) The Catholic Church/Jesuits, Mormons, Assembly of God churches, the Watchtower Society, Hasidic Judaism, modern witchcraft, Druidry, Santeria, Freemasons, Golden Dawn, NASA, and professional baseball. (I think we can agree that some of these groups are very harmful, but that doesn't mean they're part of this conspiracy he's talking about.)

There are many different types of Monarch alter programming, including but not limited to gem programming, elemental programming, flower programming, color programming, Gumby programming, beehive programming, sex kitten programming, Greek letter programming, carousel programming, demon programming, alien programming, Mensa programming, Atlantis programming, paper doll programming, tumbleweed programming, waterjar shaking programming, Cinderella programming - it goes on.

"Body programs" can be installed to cause hearing problems, circulation issues, headaches, digestive problems, heart failure - basically, all those health problems that people who aren't conspiracy theorists would explain through allergies, stress, mental illness, or just common flaws of the human body.

Most slaves have "end-time programming," and will be activated to round up and kill opponents of the NWO when the time comes from the Antichrist to take power. (Again, it's been over twenty years.

Cisco Wheeler was programmed to be part of the Antichrist's elite imperial guard.

They claim, and I quote, "drugs, torture, hypnosis and MPD all work to enhance memory" and "most slaves have some photographic memory capability." They also claim that systemwide photographic memory can be created through brain stem scarring. (Conspiracy theorists literally made this up.)

The brains of Monarch slaves are more active than normal people's brains, because both sides of the Monarch slave's brain work simultaneously. (Both sides of everyone's brains are working all the time, that is literally how brains work.)

Mind control implants have been a thing since the 1960's. One woman had an implant disguised as a pubic hair. JZ Knight had an audio implant in her teeth that activated her to become a New Age leader. Microchip implants can affect DNA growth. "Fiber optic" mind control devices can be shot into the skin from a distance. (You can tell they rely on their audience to not understand anything about electronics in addition to neuroscience.)

Switching alters can literally change the color of your eyes. (It's impossible for someone's eyes to instantly switch color in the same way it's impossible for their skin to instantly change color.)

Fairy tales, fantasy media, movies, and television shows are full of deliberate programming. Some (but not all) of the media Springmeier and Wheeler implicate includes The Wizard of Oz, The Chronicles of Narnia, Alice in Wonderland, Disney films in general, A Little Princess, Star Trek, Star Wars, E.T., Tiny Toons, The Simpsons, Frankenstein, Bewitched, and Labyrinth.

Basically, any piece of entertainment that isn't morally pure from a far right Christian perspective is part of the Illuminati's plan to corrupt the youth and lead them down the patch of witchcraft and into satanism.

The story of the Golem is actually about a mind-controlled slave, and that "the main goal of the Cabala is to create a mind-controlled slave called a golem." Also, the Brothers Grimm were "Cabalistic Jews." (For a guy who insists he's not antisemitic, Fritz Springmeier sure likes to accuse people of being Jewish and demonize Jewish stuff.)

Famous Illuminati slaves include (but are not limited to) Marilyn Monroe, Elvis Presley, Roseanne Barr, Bette Midler, Madonna, and the Beatles. They claim Charles Manson was programmed with Beatles music.

(List break here because this whole thing was longer than Tumblr's allowed block length. Again, I emphasize, I am only posting a small sample of the BS they put in their books.)

The Illuminati's intelligence agencies have programmed "thousands upon thousands of slaves." The Naval Ordinance Test Station at China Lake was actually a Monarch programming facility, where thousands of babies were kept in cages. "Lots of 1000 babies was a small batch," and "many batches were 2000 or 3000 babies."

The average Monarch system is programmed with 1000 alters.

The Illuminati prefers to program blond, blue-eyed children without visible body defects or scars. (Funny how these conspiracy theorists keep claiming to hate white supremacy, then insist blond, blue-eyed children are special targets.)

The Illuminati has no trouble finding sadistic torturers because, and I quote, "essentially all human males can be taught to engage in sadistic behavior." In fact, the Illuminati's Mothers of Darkness are often necessary to make sure the male torturers don't go too far.

The Illuminati used chimpanzees to physically torture children. (The pair of them clearly do not understand how strong chimpanzees actually are.)

Babies can learn to read by six months old with the use of subliminal tapes.

Learning to write backwards makes you more likely to dissociate. (Bizarre variant on old 'Satan does things backwards to mock God' canard.)

Failed Monarch programming/TBMC causes autism. Autism is when children withdraw from the world and retreat into themselves. (If there's two things we know about autism, it's that it's not traumagenic, and it's not about withdrawing from the world to retreat into your own mind.)

If you hang someone upside down long enough, they will begin to reverse pain and pleasure. Yeah, supposedly, if you physically reverse a person's body, their mind will start reversing, too. This, apparently, is how we get kinksters who like pain.

Scars can be made more visible via hypnotic command, and this has been a thing in the occult world for centuries. (Modern version of the Devil's Mark/witch's tit myth.)

Moles are a sign of prior electroshock torture. (Another modern version of the Devil's mark/witch's tit myth.)

King Hezekiah - yes, the Biblical King Hezekiah - was a child victim of satanic ritual abuse. (Of course the Bible chapter they cite - 2 Chronicles 29 - mentions nothing of the sort.)

Direct quote, "Vice-President Al Gore is a vampire and carries a briefcase of blood with him." (Modern conspiracy theorists love to sling blood libel at Democrats.)

Hillary Clinton is an Illuminati Grand Dame and programmer. (Gotta accuse those Democrat women of being witches.)

Roma people practice cannibalism. (Pure anti-Romani racism.)

The Illuminati has the cure for AIDS.

Adrenochrome is a secret black market drug. (This is a modern form of blood libel.)

Snuff pornography is a real thing. (It's really not.)

Being on Prozac makes you susceptible to becoming homicidal or suicidal if you're exposed to certain electromagnetic frequencies. The Illuminati is deliberately exposing people to these frequencies to increase these behaviors in order to get anti-gun legislation passed.

Cellphone towers emit electromagnetic frequencies that can control people's minds.

Putting one's hands behind one's head is a secret Illuminati hand signal meaning "I'm master." Folding one's hands is a secret Illuminati symbol for "you can't break the circle." Thumb-twiddling is an Illuminati hand signal for S&M. Other normal, everyday hand positions/gestures/movements are given equally conspiratorial explanations.

The "Vulcan peace sign" is an Illuminati/occult greeting. (This claim isn't just demonizing Star Trek - it's antisemitic.)

High-ranking members of the Illuminati hold fancy cannibal dinner parties and feed children to lions and tigers.

Lots and lots of child sacrifice happens. There's even rituals where children sacrifice other children and eat their hearts.

The shape of your skull affects your personality, and the Illuminati creates permanent personality changes by changing the shapes of people's skulls. (This is literally phrenology, which is pseudoscience.)

The Illuminati implants real, actual demons into victims, which can only be removed through Christian deliverance. Also, accepting Jesus as one's Lord and Savior is the only way for victims to truly heal, no ifs, ands, buts, or maybes.

Down's Syndrome can be cured with cranial manipulation. (Craniosacral therapy is quackery.)

Many people diagnosed with schizophrenia have actually been given implants by the government.

Ronald Reagan is "our future president." (Yes, Fritz Springmeier wrote these words during the Clinton administration.)

The US government has built 140 massive underground bases for various purposes, including housing "several varieties of aliens."

The Illuminati has been creating human clones and biological robot doubles for years, and has created such doubles for politicians such as Jimmy Carter. (Allegations of clones and duplicates goes back to the witch hunts, where witch hunters would claim Satan conjured up doubles for witches so their families wouldn't miss them while they went to the witches' sabbath. Also, it's a form of dehumanization.)

Therapists treating victims of alter programming/trauma-based mind control should separate their clients from their programmer (read: isolate them from friends, family, and acquaintances) and hold multi-hour therapy sessions to help them remember their abuse and discover their hidden alters (read: make sure they're constantly exposed to this narrative so they'll start to internalize it and begin "remembering" what you want). Wheeler outright says that the "better therapists" will wear down their clients with lengthy question and answer sessions. She recommends having a team of therapists to work on a single client, with a female mother figure and male father figure.

Depression is a sin that comes from a lack of faith.

Trance-Formation of America is a good example of how mind control victims are treated. (Trance-Formation of America is also part of the Project Monarch/alter programming conspiracy theory.)

Full quote, "All Illuminati victims of mind-control have been terrorized by their abusers about how God hates them and how God will punish them for their badness." (In other words, much of what these people are chalking up to alter programming/TBMC can very easily be explained by religious trauma from being brought up in a conservative Christian environment.)

Again, these are the types of claims made by the two people from which all of this stuff about all of these specific types of alter programming, body programs, etc. originate. Whether or not people on RAMCOA sites acknowledge Springmeier and Wheeler outright, much the stuff they're claiming can very much be traced back to them.

Now, some of you reading this might still be wondering whether the alter programming could more than a conspiracy theory; like, maybe there's actually people out there who are really doing this, even if they aren't involved in some grand sinister conspiracy. And the answer is still no.

First, this conspiracy theory effectively proposes that there was an epidemic of people engaging in this very specific practice back during a time period when the most that people knew about DID (if they knew about DID at all) came from from the Sybil book or movie (and the real "Sybil" never had DID); or even before that point, if we include the people who claimed they were programmed in the 40's-60's. The idea that all of these unconnected people all independently came up with this is simply beyond absurd. If this was a real practice being done out there by any significant number of people at all, extensive technical literature describing the procedures in full detail would have to exist. This literature would at some point have been found in the homes, workplaces, etc. of programmers. Alter programming has allegedly been practiced since at least the 1940s, and not a single piece of this literature has ever been found anywhere; not on the most depraved 4Chan user's computer, not in the edgiest occultist's library, and not in the home of any child molesting priest. The only literature that describes these supposed practices comes from conspiracy theorists, and they aren't nearly detailed enough to constitute any kind of actual manual. It's very telling that when Fritz Springmeier et al name books that supposedly contain this sort of information, the books either contain nothing of the sort (for example, old grimoires), or have no evidence of ever existing in the first place.

And while it's true that extreme trauma can cause dissociation and the formation of alters, that's about the only thing this conspiracy theory gets right. Everything else is like some kind of edgy sci-fi take on it, about as accurate to real neuroscience as Jaws is to real sharks. The people who thought they saw evidence of "structured DID" back in the day made a similar error to the people who look at natural hills and mountains and think they're seeing ancient pyramids, or look at Bimini Road and actually think it's a real man-made road rather than a natural rock formation. People would look at someone having literally any trauma response or distress behavior (which may or may not have actually involved DID or OSDD), and think they were seeing the work of some diabolical mastermind. Basically, it's a form of pareidolia. The therapists would share their beliefs with their patients, who would internalize it in their own minds, and come back with stuff that seemed to confirm their therapists' suspicions.

What's going on here is a pretty straightforward case of confabulated memory cultivation. This kind of thing happens all the time in places like the New Age starseed movement, where people start learning New Age mythology and what kind of alien beings they supposedly could have been in a past life. Whether through hypnosis, vivid dreams, or even incredibly vivid flashes of mental imagery out of the blue, people begin "remembering" supposed lost memories that simply cannot be real because real historical evidence contradicts them at nearly every turn. You can see examples of this for yourself over here and over here.

Confabulated memory cultivation isn't really practiced on purpose, per se; at least, not typically. What happens is you have people who legitimately believe that they can retrieve lost memories, whether from their childhoods or from a past life. And unlike literature that tells you how to program alters, literature that describes methods to supposedly retrieve lost memories exists in abundance. People have made jobs out of allegedly helping people retrieve lost memories ever since people believed that was a thing they could do.

The alter programming conspiracy theory was part of a mental health fad where people believed that repressed memories were the root cause of many ordinary mental and physical health problems. Symptoms of anxiety, depression, chronic stress, PTSD, C-PTSD, BPD, schizophrenia, bipolar, autism, ADHD, allergies, mast cell activation syndrome, fibromyalgia, and more are all chalked up to repressed memories and alter programming. Very, very tellingly, many of the symptoms described in this type of literature are exactly what you'd expect from religious trauma in a conservative Christian environment. In fact, the alter programming conspiracy theory implicitly denies that it would be possible to develop serious trauma from the kind of abusive parenting that conservative Christian culture encourages and condones.

Also, the fact that the ISSTD/RAMCOA SIG continues propagating the claims made by Springmeier and Wheeler definitively shows us that the purpose of ISSTD/RAMCOA-SIG is repackaging Satanic Panic and far right conspiracy theories more generally, and that the very term "Ritual Abuse, Mind Control, & Organized Abuse" is in fact a Trojan horse intended to slip all of this stuff back into legitimate psychological discourse and discussions of systemic abuse, religious abuse, human trafficking, etc. The fact that people cannot question RAMCOA without being accused of denying these things shows that this is working out really well for the the ISSTD/RAMCOA SIG right now.

I'd like to emphasize that I am not trying to say that people who were led to believe they were victims of alter programming haven't been severely abused in some way, or that none of them have DID. This conspiracy theory is very much built to prey on these sorts of people. The point I am making is that it is indeed a conspiracy theory, and that it harms many people, both with and without DID.

Now, I know there's some folks out there who have been led to believe that real evidence of widespread alter programming or even widespread ritual abuse (ie, the practice of abusive occultic rituals) were found, but conservative Christians simply co-opted real events to attack the people they didn't like. And that simply isn't what happened. It was the conspiracy theorists - people like Dr. Lawrence Pazder and Mike Warnke - who positioned themselves as ritual abuse experts and instructed police and therapists on what to look out for. It was always a literal witch hunt from the very beginning.

If you are looking for any kind of mental health support, or wish to talk about real forms of abuse, I strongly recommend avoiding terms like Satanic Ritual Abuse, Ritual Abuse, Mind Control, & Organized Abuse, Organized Abuse, Organized Extreme Abuse, Ritual Abuse, Mind Control, Trauma-Based Mind Control, and so on, because these are all terms created and used by conspiracy theorists. We have other terms to talk about real abuse, including spiritual abuse, religious abuse, systemic abuse, institutional abuse, sexual abuse, sex trafficking, and so on.

Likewise, if you see someone using these terms, you know that their information is downstream from conspiracy theorists, and therefore, is highly suspect. If you're looking for any sort of mental health/trauma support whatsoever, be very wary whenever you see someone using them. Even if they mean well, what they're putting out there is still contaminated by the myths and misinformation of the Satanic Panic, which will never support actual healing.

[nerdygaymormon]

My 10 year Tumblr anniversary

June 2024 marks 10 years since I started this blog!

I originally began this blog as a way for me to follow discussions taking place on Tumblr about important topics in the LDS community, like racism or Ordain Women, which couldn't be discussed in mainstream LDS spaces. 

I soon found the LGBTQ+ LDS community which called themselves queerstake. I would message them and make comments on their posts, and they gently encouraged me to write my own blog posts to share my thoughts with others. I resisted, thinking I had nothing of value to add to the conversation and no one would be interested in what I had to say. I finally wrote my first blog post in June 2016 and it was about meeting the Sistas in Zion and sharing that I'm gay and the kindness of their reaction. That post got exactly zero likes or comments, reaffirming my belief that I didn't have anything of interest to share. I didn't write another post until August and it got a few likes and that was enough, I wrote several more posts that month and haven't stopped.

I used to go to blogging sites to find blogs by queer Latter-day Saints. Their stories resonated with me and felt important. Usually they began with someone coming home from their mission, which they hoped would be rewarded by God removing their gayness, and being disappointed or surprised this didn't happen. They expressed a commitment to staying in the church, but as the months went by they more and more wrote about the hurt they experienced, the pain of church policies aimed at them, insensitive encounters with church members and leaders, and anger at things said in General Conference. Typically there would be entries for a few months and then the blog goes silent, no more entries. 

I would think of not just how important these blogs were to me, but in some distant future they would be of interest to historians wanting to better understand what it was like to be a queer Mormon at a time of big changes in society and the LDS Church. 

Most of those blogs were written by folks in their 20's and lasted just a few months to maybe up to 2 years. I thought perhaps writing as someone in their 40's would add to these voices, and for it to matter I needed to be authentic in sharing my thoughts, feelings and experiences, showing the good, bad, and ugly. I honestly was surprised and thrilled if I had a post reach 40 or 50 likes, and was unprepared for having a post in 2017 get clicked on more than a half-million times.

Since my viral post a lot of younger queer people started following me. I still wanted to be honest and authentic and vulnerable, but I also wanted my blog to be a queer-positive space, which is why is have many posts with rainbows so visually it's clear this is a blog of a queer person. 

I started getting many messages with questions, often anonymously which meant the only way I could respond was by posting my answer to my blog. I soon felt like I was the Dear Ann Landers of Queerstake and have posted about 2000 responses since 2017, which averages to about 150 such responses per year. 

Because queer people usually don't grow up being taught about queer history and culture, I will occasionally make posts about such things, including about LDS queer history because as a queer Mormon, I can be proud of the LDS pioneer and pioqueer legacies. 

The person who started this blog 10 years ago could never have imagined I would be out to everyone in my life, and once I was out that I would still be a member of the LDS Church and get to meet General Authorities, that I would have my words published in books, be a guest on podcasts, or serve in the leadership of an organization (Affirmation) for queer people. It's been a wild ride.

[not-so-superheroine]

how did you come to join rlds/coc?

Sorry it took me so long to get to this question. I just knew it was a long answer.

I think my testimony gives a good idea, and i'll include . Because I felt the presence of God calling me to go join them is the overarching answer, but I can also give points that drew me in.

But in a few some points: 

I fell in love with the modern RLDS version of zion (and some of the old one too. nothing to do with israel.)

I saw they strived to be an inclusive place.

The Community of Christ's Enduring Principles are things I want to strive to live my life by.

The community made me feel very welcome and I saw people conduct themselves in a Christ-like manner

The community is very tight knit. society needs more of that.

Like, there is a certain behavioral affect (? cultural distinction?) that many members have that i thought was strange at first but it’s lovely. It’s kind, loving, and welcoming, and you adjust to it very quickly imo. Even to the lingo, which was a fun process. 

Continuing Revelation. Saw evidence of fulfilled prophecy in the Doctrine and Covenants and the spiritual growth in the church over the years

Continuing Revelation in general. I like that my faith is alive like that. We have prophets, God could reveal new truths for new scripture tomorrow. We are encouraged to be prophetic ourselves and discern the future together, i like that.

Also, no new scripture allowed in the mainstream? why not? does God still not talk in this way? great points in my head.

The communal aspect to everything is good. Just like how any sect of mormonism should imo The people i reached out to while seeking (investigating) were very kind to me and open to my questions. They were also there for me spiritually, and became friends. 

I could email leadership with questions and get responses. At one point, one of the church Presidents reached out to me. 

It’s academically welcoming. I was able to accept the book of Mormon as scripture when taught from a 19th century point of view. This, in turn, made me much more comfortable with the Bible. Community of Christ has an official statement on how to read scripture and there is scripture on how to think about and use scripture too.

I can even acknowledge when the history and the religious text don’t match. Because scripture doesn’t need to be historically correct to be sacred and hold an important message from the Lord.

Not really a reason but it is there: Joseph Smith III rocked and was intended to be next. It shouldn’t matter. But what does matter is that he set the church on a good path imo. Emma too. Out of all the early schisms of mormonism I would have to go RLDS belief wise, because Nauvoo era theology isn’t something I believe in. I think Smith got caught up in his own head and desires for much of it. No offense meant to post Nauvoo mormon sects.

This does not mean I haven’t picked some things up from Brighamites. For example, Trinity doesn’t work for me. And I pray to Heavenly Mother. I believe in one Divine source with many expressions. But that doesn’t mean “anything goes” and I accept it, just knowing that God speaks to people of many cultures all over, as the good book (of mormon) says.

But yes. This is why Community of Christ. Not that there are all common Community of Christ beliefs, but I thrive here spiritually and am encouraged to grow all the same.  Older testimony under cut that gives detail

I encourage y'all to watch this on video rather than just the text edited version i put here. not to be like "watch my talk on it" but please, watch my talk on the subject. I also talk about unity of the saints and what i have learned from other christians including other groups of latter day saints. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8w2M6PEKfg

I start giving my testimony and talk at 26:36

____________

I am Wednesday. Here I share a portion of myself and my testimony. At the time of this writing, I have lived 26 years. I am a Black woman of Gullah/Geechee ethnicity. I was raised in the African Methodist Episcopal church, which I am extremely grateful for. My nascent spirituality was nurtured here. I learned the meaning of community and was immersed in my culture. I was taught to love and respect my Black self, in a society that would not be inclined to show me the respect and love any human deserves. I may have converted, but I was meant to be nurtured here. I am a Lesbian, and have experienced discrimination in faith communities due attitudes towards LGBTQ+ persons. I despaired over thoughts that God didn’t love me, and wondered if I would be condemned to Hell. In part because of this and being scolded for my questioning nature regarding God and church doctrines, I fell away from faith. I grew a lot in this away time, but didn’t really deconstruct my faith until 2021. My isolation in the pandemic gave me time for introspection. I would watch content from mainly atheist ex-christians who discussed their deconstruction journey. They were usually ex-evangelical or ex-mormon, and were really helpful to me for unpacking the mess that was my faith. Then something peculiar happened that changed the path of my life. Through the ex-mormons, I encountered the Restoration. There was something intriguing about it, and I wanted to learn more, so I did. I learned history, and the doctrine of different Latter Day Saint sects. I loved how innovative and “of the people” the early church was and how alive the faith seemed to be. I listened to members and ex-members, past and present, talk about their experiences within their faith communities and how they experienced the Divine. These were some of the worst years of my life, but there was something here that gave me hope. 

I came across an interview featuring John Hamer, in which he talked about Community of Christ as a home for those in faith transition. Many of the concerns I had about Christian faith communities were addressed. I craved such a spiritual home and became a seeker.

I asked many questions of missionaries, and my inquisitiveness was welcomed. I got myself an Inspired Version of the Bible, Doctrine and Covenants, and Book of Mormon. I was very impressed by the Doctrine and Covenants and found the contents to be Inspired and even prophetic, so I started attending Beyond the Walls services online.

One Sunday, the service was centered on the Worth of all Persons, Christian acceptance of LGBTQ+ persons, and the church in Tahiti. I listened to the members talk about their acceptance, their being guided by faith in Christ in the process, and how those things were compatible and complementary. The speakers affirmed God’s love and mercy for all. Their faith was strong, and they spoke with authority. Their Christ-like compassion was palpable. I felt what I now recognize as the Holy Spirit, come over me. After the message, the choir sang “Spirit of God like a fire is Burning” and I felt that fire burning in my chest and cried and praised the Lord for hours after.

My faith in God is stronger than ever. And my passion and belief in the Restoration bloomed.

[rametarin]

I saw a comment you left comparing the Israel-Palestine situation with giving the Dakotas back to the Native people that lived there and then the Mormons or something getting upset because they'd moved in in the interim, and I think that the analogy is reeeeally close to getting to the root of the problem here. Specifically, no group of people should be made to suffer because of what their ancestors did; that's simply not justice, and to believe otherwise is a fallacy.

In Israel, there seems to be a belief that Palestinians don't deserve their country because they didn't have it first, and in Palestine there's a belief that Israel doesn't deserve the land because the modern country was founded within living memory. This has resulted in tensions and warfare between the two nations since Israel's modern founding; Palestine is perceived as squatters on deserved land, while Israel is perceived as modern colonizers that are taking land through a claim just as rooted in religion as history. (In general, religious claims are difficult to legislate; like, the Mormon religion claims they have an ancestral right to the Americas as a "New Zion" based on their religious affiliation, and while that's ridiculous it'd also be really difficult to legally differentiate stuff like that in a neutral way from other religious claims to land.)

I was born and raised in Idaho, and I have a semi-recent historical example to substitute for your analogy. Our capital, Boise, used to have a large Chinatown district; about a hundred or so years ago, after Asian immigrants came to the area to work on the railroads, many of them settled down and started a vibrant community. Horrifically, the local city government of the time ended up forcing out most of the Chinese population by the 1960s, and tore down many of their buildings afterwards over concerns for "public safety". Currently, that area of town is known as the "Basque Block"; after facing persecution back in south-east Europe, many Basque immigrants moved to Boise in search of work and ended up settling in the area that used to be our Chinatown.

I absolutely hate what Boise did to the Chinese immigrants who moved here; it was xenophobic and cruel, full stop. I think Boise should find ways to make amends and pay reparations -- however, I could not support them if that reparation was to force the Basque out to let Chinese immigrants live there instead, especially since the obvious solution would be to find a way to peacefully integrate the communities together. Obviously it's not a perfect analogy (timelines/scales/personal histories aren't 1:1, but what analogy is?), but it's still a real-world scenario and not a hypothetical.

Reparations can and should be made towards descendants of people that have historically suffered, but if those reparations cause a new group of people to suffer and be driven from their homes, isn't that just perpetuating injustice? Why should the suffering of innocents justify causing more innocents to suffer? I don't believe that ancestry justifies cruelty for anyone, and I don't think you do either. We've got to be better than this.

Israel acquired what land it did largely through peaceful, legitimate means, though. Their neighbors rebuke the entire idea a Jew living in the Holy Land can be legitimate, by virtue of not being Arab Palestinian.

And over and over again, they have tried to negotiate a 2-state solution. Over and over again, the forces in control of Palestine refuse to compromise and believe it is their right to exterminate whom they wish in the Holy Land that is not Arab Muslim. Over and over again, they get their teeth crushed and their shit pushed in for their arrogance. Over and over again, we see the repeating problem of the Islamic world declaring any land that Islam has conquered will forever and always belong to the Islamic people and religion, and no others- which is exactly why they still argue that they own large swaths of Spain, after they colonized parts of it. That no legal authority can undo what they beleive was given to them by Allah.

Arabized Muslims are not the oppressed in Palestine. The Arab Muslims in Israel enjoy better quality of life and equality than Arab Muslims in Palestine. It is Palsetine that oppresses the Arab Muslims of Palestine, and believes itself the single authority over all of it, and will not accept any notion a single Islamic state is not uniformly in charge of all.

Absolutely nothing justifies the cruelty attempted to be inflicted onto Israel by the Islamic world. And so long as they try and force their will on Israel, they will be destroyed for it. Not because of divine mandate, but because of the will of man. Palestine will not accept the legitimacy of a 2-state solution, despite it being legitimate, for it diverts on religious grounds.

They're making their own cruelty and holding Israel responsible for it. And I cannot fault Israel defending itself.

[woundedearth]

also i don’t want to start shit but ppl are too comfortable putting fallout new vegas on a pedestal and forget about the racism in that game as well, like the dehumanized chinese ghouls in old world blues and the entire dlc about mormon missionaries ~protecting the innocence~ of a “tribal” group that’s portrayed as generic Noble Indians (which you later find out are descended from like. a group of fucking pre-war american school children whose spiritual beliefs are all based on naive misconceptions planted by a random white guy who hid in the hills of zion national park)

[songofsunset]

Hey, so by Zionism you mean like- supporting Israel and the founding of Israel etc etc right? If you mean it some other way please feel free to clarify, but that's my understanding of the term, and this is relevant because I was literally taught at Mormon church growing up that Israel existing was the fulfillment of prophecy, an important step before the second coming, and that we were supposed to support them.

This is the 10th of Mormonism's 13 articles of faith, written in 1842- these are essentially the Mormon 10 commandments, and a summary of the fundamental beliefs of the church

(the state of Utah was originally going to be called Zion, for some context. They also go on about Zion being the hearts of faithful members etc etc, but ALSO when they say literal they mean literal and when I was being taught they were very clear that Israel counted.)

So like, Mormons can be super antisemitic (as part of the coming of age Patriarchal Blessing, each Mormon is assigned a house of israel- usually Ephraim, for adoption, which is..... So questionable.) But absolutely the religion is Zionist by every way I understand the term, and in ways that might not be obvious to people not familiar with it.

mormons undoubtedly in the top 5 worst things the united states has ever invented which is really saying something

[seffius]

I don't think the white perspective helps anything and for that reason I won't tag this but I can't stop thinking about this.

"Anti-zionism is anti-Semitism"

I was raised Mormon. That's a sentence that envokes a lot of preconceived notions, some of which are true. That I was raised in a cult. That I was raised to be racist. To be homophobic. To think of women as inferior. Mormons having these beliefs are common knowledge and frequently criticized.

Not the Zionism though.

I was raised to believe that Jewish people were chosen by God above gentiles, and that their prophecized return to Zion (interpreted as Israel) would mean the second coming of Christ. Due to the significance of the second coming in Christianity, the idea of Zion is integral to Mormon faith. (Side note, I acknowledge this belief is not exclusive to the LDS)

Look at a map of Utah. See how many places are named after the region of Israel as named in the Bible. They even have a national park named Zion.

I left the church and largely deprogrammed my beliefs in 2018.

It took until 2022 to realize that Zionism was a bad thing. Somehow, in my efforts to reevaluate the things I was taught, it never came up. It took lives lost in Palestine for anyone to say anything, and the moment people did, I dropped it.

What am I getting at?

If even goyim raised to be Zionists either through Mormonism, evangelicalism, or any other denomination can come to terms that it's a bullshit belief not worth the lives of thousands of Palestinians, then shouldn't people of a religion where Zionism isn't even a core belief have an easier time of reconciling with that fact?

So then how is anti-zionism anti-Semitism?

[nightingaelic]

One I've always been infuriated by: you can't take a companion to Honest Hearts because the caravan is at capacity, but you can get Ricky kicked out. So New Vegas companions follow the Courier to Zion: what hilarity ensues?

Arcade Gannon: While Arcade is absolutely not a fan of Caesar's Legion, he's reserved enough not to shoot the Burned Man as soon as he appears, and he may even test the former Malpais Legate's philosophy and convictions in some sparring of wits once he feels comfortable enough [Speech 75]. Arcade thinks that Graham has replaced Caesar in his life with God, switching out a human tyrant for a nebulous deity: Graham argues that Arcade's desire for a wishfully-thought, balanced world springs out of an unsatisfied need for internal harmony, one he might find through spirituality. The courier can only stand an hour or so of this back-and forth before giving up and leaving Angel Cave to go find some geckos to hunt. Follows-Chalk amuses Arcade, and he encourages the young scout's desire to explore pre-war ruins: After all, there's always something to be learned by studying who and what came before you. Waking Cloud earns Arcade's utmost respect with her knowledge of medicine and of the canyon's natural order, but he would likely be disappointed with Daniel's and Graham's encroaching influence on the Sorrows' faith.

Craig Boone: Fight on sight with Joshua Graham, which leaves the Burned Man's bandages a little bloodier than normal but is ultimately broken up by the courier before any real harm is done. A shouting match ensues in the middle of the Dead Horses' camp, with Boone airing all of Graham's atrocities at maximum volume and the courier admitting skepticism of the man's change of heart, but still wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe Boone wins and the Dead Horses must be convinced of Graham's crimes in the wider world [Speech 100], or the New Vegas visitors beat a hasty retreat from Zion [Speech 85/100]. Maybe the courier wins and Boone realizes that the Burned Man already lives a life wreathed in the pain he inflicted during his decades of Legion service and the eternal mark of Caesar's fury. Either way, Boone is on edge for the remainder of the time in Zion Canyon, and doesn't make too many friends. Follows-Chalk takes a shine to him though, and Boone admits that the scout makes for a decent spotter. I don't think Boone would form a strong connection with Zion until encountering the diaries of Randall Dean Clark, and realizing that the people the courier was trying to save were the chosen loved ones of a man not unlike himself.

Lily Bowen: Having Lily along on the trip to Zion might give some of the other caravan members a chance of surviving, as I don't think the White Legs are used to encountering super mutants and would probably falter anyway at a courier backed up by a giant nightkin grandmother swinging around a vertibird blade [Terrifying Presence]. The Burned Man's appearance in the canyon doesn't bother or even interest her, but she loudly laments the Dead Horses' practice of hunting bighorners rather than taming them. In contrast, Lily loves the Sorrows' treatment of Zion's wildlife, particularly their domestication of geckos. The tame geckos are terrified of her. Of all the inhabitants of Zion, Lily would best relate to Waking Cloud, finding common ground with the tribal midwife on topics like motherhood, the uprooting of a happy life and respect for nature. I think the courier would recognize this bond and even give Lily the chance to complete White Bird's rite of passage herself, defeating the Ghost of She with the courier and Waking Cloud's help. Lily would be most likely to leave Zion with more friends and family than when she entered it.

Raul Alfonso Tejada: Apart from being somewhat of a living ghost himself, I don't think Raul would have much in common with Joshua Graham. While they're both trying to atone for mistakes they've made, their respective mistakes are in completely different time zones. Plus, I don't think Graham talks to ghouls much, thanks to his history with the Legion. Maybe Raul would share a tip with the Burned Man about .45 maintenance, maybe some helpful info about caring for damaged skin if he's feeling generous, but their relationship wouldn't go far beyond that. Like Boone, the story of the Father in the Cave strikes a chord with the old ghoul, and he might seek out Clark's final resting place with the courier to give the man a proper send-off and burial. Similarly, I think he would sympathize with Daniel and his attempts to help the Sorrows, and what bond he might have built with Graham would instead grow with the Mormon missionary. On the side, though, I think he might teach some Sorrows a few phrases in Spanish to heckle the man with, just for fun [Wild Wasteland].

Rose of Sharon Cassidy: Convincing Cass to accompany the courier to Zion in the first place would probably be a feat in and of itself [Barter 62], and once the White Legs appear over the horizon and start assaulting the caravan, Cass might just admit out loud that she and any crew she travels with are cursed. From there, every new piece of the story would entertain her to no end. The most wanted man in Caesar's Legion is just hiding out in a canyon in Utah. The remnants of Vault 22's inhabitants are scattered all over the landscape, meaning Ricky would've eventually been caught in his lie if he'd actually made it to Zion. The Mormons are here, and they're arguably more enthusiastic about proselytizing the tribes than they are about helping them escape and defend themselves. I think Cass would be the most angry and vocal about that last part, and might even wind up arguing with Graham and Daniel about how the only part of their faith they should be spreading right now is the belief in making amends for their actions: Namely, leading the White Legs to Zion in the first place. She would probably be the only one of the companions to propose going to Salt-Upon-Wounds and discovering the tribe's motivations and the manipulations of Ulysses and Caesar, and maybe convincing the war chief that he is being used [Speech 100].

Veronica Santangelo: The Brotherhood Scribe finds a kindred spirit in Follows-Chalk, and the two quickly become fast friends. The young scout happily shares the history and practices of the Dead Horses with her, and in return, Veronica tells stories about the wonders of New Vegas that she has seen while traveling the Mojave with the courier. Joshua Graham creeps Veronica out though, but her own curiosity leads her to prod the courier into interrogating the Malpais Legate by proxy. Like Cass, Veronica would be annoyed with the Mormons' roles among the tribes, but unlike Cass, she lacks the knowledge and context needed to convince them to take some steps back. She is, however, good at tracking down evidence to back up her suspicions, and she and the courier might be able to find evidence of the Legion's influence on the White Legs by poking around their camps [Sneak 73]. Veronica is also in awe of Waking Cloud, particularly of her skill with the yao guai gauntlet. Once she's picked her jaw up off the floor, the Scribe asks the midwife to show her some techniques and help her affix some yao guai claws to her own power fist [Unstoppable Force].

ED-E: The little robot is a huge novelty in the Zion Canyon, and ED-E hams it up for every curious individual that approaches it in the Dead Horses camp and the Narrows. The courier can't help but smile with every quizzical beep, bounce and zoom around the members of the tribes, but they keep the robot closer in Zion to protect against White Legs storm drums and tomahawks. ED-E enjoys spotting trail markings for Follows-Chalk and tracking animals with Waking Cloud. The robot doesn't understand who Daniel is, but knows from reading his body language that he is sad. Not as sad as the man in Angel Cave, though.

Rex: As soon as Rex sets foot in the Zion Canyon, he hears danger on the wind and warns the courier. The caravan is therefore on edge before the inevitable attack, and less likely to perish in the ensuing battle. Like ED-E, Rex doesn't know who Joshua Graham is, but he knows he doesn't trust him: He smells like a wildfire, inside and out. Neither the Dead Horses nor the Sorrows keep dogs, and some members of the tribe are actively afraid of Rex, associating him with the mongrels that run ahead of White Legs raiding parties. The Sorrows are more forgiving, and Rex shows them their trust is well-placed by allowing them to pet him and inspect his mechanical parts when he lies before the campfires to rest at the courier's feet.

[themasterofstudies]

Deconstructing Mormon Hymns #2

Hymn #259

Hope of Israel, Zion's army,

Children of the Promised Day,

See, The Chieftain signals onward,

And the battle's in array!

Opening strong with some loaded language. Hope, Zion, Promised Day. All words meant to evoke a strong emotional response. That's us! That's who we are. We are Zion, which brings up feelings of paradise and righteousness and happiness. Promised Day? We are fulfilling prophecy, which is exciting! (I could write a whole essay on how telling someone about them fulfilling a prophecy reinforces the need for them to stay in the group for happy brain chemicals, but that's for another time)

Chieftain? Battle? This is a reinforced Us vs. Them song. Battling the forces of evil, a call to action. The intent is to whip us into a (controlled, purposeful) frenzy. Religious zealotry.

[Chorus]

Hope of Israel, rise in might

With the sword of truth and right;

Sound the war cry, “Watch and pray!”

Vanquish ev'ry foe today.

The chorus is the focus of the song. Anything you repeat over and over again is what gets stuck in your head and holds the weight of the message.

Hope of Israel, loaded language. That's us! Rise up! Truth and right are loaded terms too. Those words even out of religious context are heavy emotional triggers, everyone wants to be right and they understand truths and lies. Within the mormon context, those words are loaded with the weight of eternity and responsibility. Sword of truth and right? Literally weaponizing those terms.

A War cry of “watch and pray” is ominous. Sit on the edge of your seat in perpetuity. Also, watch us mow down your friends and family with our sword, and pray to whatever god you have cuz it isn't the right one and you will die for it.

The final line is chilling. Vanquish every foe today. Choose our way of doing things or die.

What counts as a foe? Anyone who isn't us, as described in the verse. And we sing this 4 times.

See the foe in countless numbers,

Marshaled in the ranks of sin.

Hope of Israel, on to battle;

Now the vict'ry we must win!

Foe, sin, countless numbers. Insurmountable odds. Makes us feel like underdogs, and everyone likes a good underdog story. Again, reinforces the Us vs Them theme. A battle we MUST win. No choice here, give it your all. Coupled with the chorus, it doubles down on the weaponizing of the religion and rhetoric.

Strike for Zion, down with error;

Flash the sword above the foe!

Ev'ry stroke disarms a foeman'

Ev'ry step we conq'ring go

This verse doesn't even need loaded language, the regular language is dangerous enough. Strike for your people, down with error. Your people are right, no wiggle room here. Error? Simple mistakes are met with the sword. Violence. Conquering and swinging swords as they march along. Bring in the chorus and it's becoming concerning. Load the language, and it's the same stuff you hear in a terrorist manifesto. Zion, foe, conquering. I personally think of Ammon literally cutting off people's arms.

I want to bring up the first line again. Down with error. Not only does this line tell your enemies the criteria for being met with a sword, but you and the congregation tells each other the message too: Going against what we believe will be met with the sword. This reinforces the fear of becoming a Them, and keeps people captive in the belief system.

Soon the battle will be over

Ev'ry foe of truth be down.

Onward, Onward, youth of Zion'

Thy reward the victor's crown

Soon is so vague and never ending. How soon? How long must we plod on? How long must we swing the sword?

Until every foe of truth is gone. That's a long line of people. Again, it's anyone not with you. Anti mormon literature? Random news stations? Anyone not willing to go along with the theocracy? All of those people will be met with the sword. So we must keep swinging our swords until we die? Pretty much.

The reward? Nothing about paradise, no specific promises. Just victory. Now, this is vague on purpose. We can imagine whatever we think victory means, and what we would want from it. The result is that we think swinging the sword is worth it.

Lets talk musicality. Steady marching song, what I'd expect from a religious battle cry. Triumphant, upbeat, and generally the chorus is sung so powerfully and loudly that it's obvious that's where the emphasis is. It becomes a driving force, by the end you feel like you have won, like you will earn the victory. It whips us into a frenzy, rabid for proving ourselves on the battlefield. It encourages giving no quarter, accepting no surrender or compromise. Keep marching and swinging your sword until either the battle is won or you die. When the music stops, it feels like a vacuum in the chapel or room. The energy of the music has vanished, and so where is that power supposed to go? Internalized. Either in the prayer given immediately afterward, or in the next talk, while you sit in the pew and feel invigorated from your renewed sense of purpose.

TL;DR: Battle song that positively portrays religious terrorism.

[nerdragenewvegas]

ok i lied ill elaborate a little bit - cn here because i discuss rape tangentially in terms of stuff the legion did

there's this kanye west song (i have an extremely complicated relationship with kanye's body of work so let me cook here, let me cook) on the pre-complete-and-utter-meltdown-and-alt-right-kanye album ye (which is one of my favorite albums ever and genuinely is like a musical if the musical was just about what it's like to experience a full bipolar disorder manic episode, i'm bipolar type 1 and i've never seen someone capture it so fucking perfectly) called Violent Crimes which is about how having a daughter of his own has caused him to question and regret the way he's seen and treated women in the past. I think it's one of Kanye's most emotionally vulnerable pieces of writing and i really think it's worth listening to because I think it's something a lot of cis-men experience when having their own children that gets skipped over a lot when discuss how misogyny relates to men and masculinity and how their fears of other men treating their daughters how they treated other people's daughter's can end up translating into over-protectiveness and that weird thing where women's sexual 'purity' becomes objectified and something they're willing to become violent over.

i spend a lot of time thinking about how Joshua Graham's whole 'redemption arc' would approach how women were treated under the Legion. That's not to say he directly participated in the abuse of women (none of us Joshua Graham girlies like thinking of him as a r-worder, even in his past, and I don't believe he would have done that either - but I also struggle to believe that even a devout mormon sticking to the vow of chastity would go 30-40 years without touching a woman when the power dynamics in the legion 100% mean there'd be women attempting to survive or improve their living situation in the Legion by offering themselves up as concubines/wives/willing partners -- and that's if he's even straight -- but that's a whole other rabbit hole about consent I can yap about until the cows come home) but even if new lore dropped tomorrow and it turned out he never actually did anything like that himself, he was still directly responsible in the creation of the system that permits the literal objectification of women as property and breeding stock. This is never really addressed in the game (I don't blame them, it's a whole can of worms that I don't think we were ready for in 2011) but I think about it often, because like, imagine this little helper that God sends to Zion to help him is a woman, right -- Joshua Graham is the most in-his-feelings man in New Vegas and there's no way it wouldn't dig up some kind of reflection about that, right? Like, he basically co-signed on a system that would have seen a female Courier stripped of everything that she uses to essentially save his tribe and himself from... himself.

So while I know the likliehood of His Holyness Joshua the Crispy I ever having children in his 'happily ever after' is pretty unlikely for a couple of reasons, what if he had a girl/girls? Like if the Courier's a reminder of how the Legion treated women, having his own daughters would be a slap in the face. I like to believe this would manifest in him being not just the world's biggest girl dad but also being a complete monster when it comes to that old Christian style 'I will protect my daughter's virginity with a gun' thing that looms over prom night. There's this saying I see a lot that a man's Karma comes back to him through his daughters and a lot of people interpret this as 'if you're an asshole, your daughter will be the nightmare you deserve,' but I interpret this more as 'if you treat women like shit, your daughters will not just make you realise the errors of your ways, but they'll make you ashamed of what you did' and holy shit this would knock Joshua on his ass, especially because you know he'd be applying his Mormon culture and beliefs which--- jesus christ, a whole other nightmare in itself.

so, I think he'd absolutely spoil his daughters but at the same time 100% put them on a pedestal and almost evangelise them. Those girls are getting whatever they want if he can reasonably provide it but god fucking help literally any man who even looks at them for more than 25 seconds because Joshua knows what men can and will do to women because he has seen the extent of it with his own eyes and knows that having to be on the other side of that is part of his own atonement. He'd sit there watching his infant daughter sleep wondering how someone could ever harm something so beautiful and innocent and perfect and he'd be absolutely overcome with guilt and shame for what he allowed and even enabled to happen, and his diving punishment for that would be having to live the rest of his life in terror that someone will do the same to his own daughter one day because he knows that men will want to and there will be men out there who, like him, will be complacent would allow it to happen -- and that would fundamentally alter him.

also yknow i bet he'd be one of those dads who takes tea parties seriously and make up lore for all the dolls.

joshua graham has girl-dad energy

i will not be elaborating further

[brainsdivided]

Shattered Hearts and Broken Dreams - Chapter 2

22 August 2293

While Ezekiel spent some time on bed-rest, Joshua made the decision to prepare the boy for a risky trip. With no medicine left for what Ezekiel needed, Joshua decided that they would need to leave Zion. First and foremost, to find Ezekiel help, and hopefully along the way recover some information on Ezekiel’s brother and father. Joshua planned for them to make their way south to Legion territory. While risky, it would take less time to find a bordering town than to navigate the Grand Staircase and the areas surrounding it to get to Dead Horse Point. It would take too long. Despite it being the current residence of Joshua’s tribes, he would rather risk running into trouble he could handle than to prolong any unnecessary illnesses.    

A large bag with supplies along with a few other necessities had been prepared. Everything they would need for their trip. 

Ezekiel appeared nervous and hesitant, his back was hunched and his head was lowered. "What if I grow too weak for the trip?" He looked up at his guardian, unsure of himself.

"Son, you will do well. The Lord will strengthen you and with His help we will prevail." The old man smiled and despite wearing bandages it was clear as day through the wrinkles around his eyes. 

The boy sighed and scooted off the bed. Joshua carried most of the supplies and together, the pair made their way out of the camp’s cave and into Zion, following the trails until they ended up travelling along route 9, moving east out of the old national park.

Later during the day, Joshua tried bringing the boy some comfort using his understanding of his religious beliefs. Though, Ezekiel didn’t take to it too kindly.

The boy scoffed and tried to wave off the topic. "I've been read those books front to back and it doesn't make much sense. God isn't going to help me, but you will, Uncle Josh." He looked up at Joshua, a playful smile upon his face. Ezekiel felt better compared to when he first arrived, but the edges of the whites of his eyes were red, his sickness had begun flaring up once again.

"Don't doubt the Lord for he will save you and your soul." Joshua spoke coldly, clearly unapproving of Ezekiel’s dismissive behavior.

Ezekiel shook his head and kicked the pebbles as they walked. "I get called a troublemaker sometimes, though I don’t see why, I just like having fun… Is having fun a sin in your book?”

"No. Even if it was, son, our good Lord offers us redemption for any sin. I have done things you couldn't imagine in your worst nightmares. We all have sinned, but our path to heaven can be guaranteed through our trust in our redemption and through the commandments we keep." One hand was on the boy's shoulder. "I will help to make sure you stay on the right path."

One of Ezekiel’s little ginger eyebrows rose up in response to Joshua’s cryptic words. "Whatever you say. Your book is strange." He gestured to Joshua's blue covered book he kept in one of his vest pockets.

"Some things are just not to be understood by our meager human minds." The man was dismissive and ignored the derogatory comments.

 Instead, he discussed with Ezekiel if the boy had received any formal education. When Ezekiel said that he only had his family to teach him but that he still has a hard time with his lessons, Joshua was quick to respond, “Then perhaps a bible study is in order. Provided you feel well enough when we come to a rest.”

Ezekiel cringed, “I can’t read and when I try, lots of words hurt my head. Lots of words from that book don’t even sound like words!” He walked in front of Joshua backwards to face him, his little legs taking multiple steps to outpace the strides his guardian was able to make.

“I will help you. Reading this book can help you expand your vocabulary, as well as understand how to find and utilize the book’s lessons in your life.” Joshua stated as he guided the boy’s shoulders to make him walk straight forward and by his side. “But, keep your rude comments to yourself. We do not dismiss the good book in the ways you do.”

"I pinky promise. Instead of being mean, I’ll be nice and ask questions." Ezekiel held up his hand, pinky extended.

Joshua extended his pinkie and reluctantly did the pinky promise. "You do know that if you don't keep your promise, the tradition says I can cut off your pinky, right?"

The boy's red-tinged eyes widened and he drew in a sharp breath. "Oh well.... You can't have my pinky! I'll keep the promise." Ezekiel pulled his hand back and clasped them in a way that hides his pinkies in his palms.

"I'm joking, son. We are Mormons, not barbarians." With Joshua’s usual tone of voice, the older man’s jokes were hard for Ezekiel to pick up on.

Ezekiel’s energy had stayed kicking throughout the day, minus some bouts of vomiting. As a typical child, though, the boy would blabber and be nosy, asking questions such as:

"Do your burns really never heal?”

“Do they really always hurt?"

“Does it hurt to sit?”

Joshua ignored the boy’s persistent questions until he was able to get the boy to quiet down enough for him to speak. He figured that it was Ezekiel’s nerves making him energetic, as he had seen before in children that were anxious to be merged into the Legion. It would be best to just answer them. "They covered me in pitch that burned itself into my skin to stop it from ever having the chance to heal properly. It was the final act of Caesar's cruelty against me. As for the pain, everything hurts. Day and night, summer and winter. The pain would be unbearable were it not for the mission the Lord gave me." He looked into the distance as they started to veer south, off the road. "This condition I found myself in is my earthly punishment for my sins. What I truly fear is how I will be judged in the end."

Ezekiel wasn’t sure what to make of Joshua’s words. "So.... helping people is kind of like a distraction from the pain? Are you immortal like a ghoul? Will you be dead when I’m your age?"

"I will be gone whenever the Lord decides it is my time. He may believe that I deserve to learn from my mistakes for another 50 years, He may believe I must leave this plane of existence very soon. None of us know His plans." 

Ezekiel went silent, and thought about what Joshua said and decided to stick closer to him. Then, he spoke up again, “Am I strong enough? What if your god decides that my time is within the trip?" He tugged at the collar of his as he had begun sweating from the desert sun.

"Then that is how it must be. God has a plan for each of us; no matter what though, I will not let your father's death go unavenged."

Shuddering, Ezekiel spoke meekly, "So if I get shot and I'm dying, you would leave me and assume that God will handle it? That doesn’t sound very nice."

Joshua rested his hand against the weakened boy’s back, providing some reassurance to Ezekiel’s nerves. "I will not and have not abandoned a brother in arms. I won't leave you." His look was to the front. "It is still by my willpower that I do everything. We all make our own choices."

Beside Joshua, the boy had grown quiet, resting upon Joshua’s words. The older man removed a folded map from one of his vest pockets. Unfolding it, he told Ezekiel that where they were beginning to tread was dangerous, and that if he wasn't careful, he could end up seriously hurt or dead.

As the pair made their way along thin paths on the edges of cliffs and old roads, Ezekiel made sure to hold onto Joshua’s vest so as to not let himself stray off or fall behind. After a while though, Ezekiel grew fatigued and nausea crept back into his throat. Letting go of Joshua’s vest, he moved aside to heave. 

In response to Ezekiel’s sudden energy decline, Joshua began making camp, setting up a fire and laying out a small sleeping bag for the sickly boy. When everything was set, and Joshua came to rest by the fire, Ezekiel sat with him, their arms brushing against each other. There wasn’t much more to say. Didn’t matter anyway, Ezekiel’s eyes fluttered from exhaustion and his body felt achy. 

Over the course of a couple hours, Joshua peacefully read his book aloud. Right there with him was Ezekiel, fighting sleep by occasionally nodding off and resting his head on Joshua’s thigh. It was peaceful for the boy. Despite the nausea in his aching stomach and the mild pain in his muscles, he was relatively comfortable. Under the darkness of the new moon, Ezekiel took comfort in both the firelight in front of him and the bandaged hand that rested upon his back. Occasionally the older man would gently run his hand through Ezekiel’s dusty red hair, taking notice to the boy’s content sighs and mumblings. When it was late enough to where the fire started to become small, Joshua ushered Ezekiel to his sleeping bag.

As he did, Ezekiel spoke of his uncertainty about the possibility of their camp getting attacked during the night. Though, he quickly reassured himself. “If something did happen, I know you'd be on it in seconds. Dad said that when he traveled with you he would barely get shots in because you'd just clear everything out within seconds like a spore carrier.”

While helping Ezekiel into the sleeping bag, Joshua responded with a softer tone of voice, “I am good at doing what must be done."

"Then I know I'm in good hands..." Trying to stifle a yawn, he pulled his arms inside his shirt to conserve his warmth. After exchanging a couple phrases of ‘sweet dreams’, exhaustion swept over the sick boy with Joshua sitting and reading close by.

“That, you are, son.” 

[provoprayerclub]

Deep Dive: episode 1

The Provo Prayer Club

Episode 1

When the Brethren have Spoken, the Thinking is Done:

What It Means to Sustain Our Leaders

Scriptures

D&C 21:5

“Thou shalt give heed (listen to, pay attention to, not blindly obey)”

“His word shall ye receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith”

“All patience and faith” does not imply they will be flawless; it implies we will have to be PATIENT with our leaders as they fumble around at times

Is capturing the infinite and putting it into words ever easy?

D&C 121: 39-42

“We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.”

Exodus 17: 8-12

Aaron and Hur stayed by Moses’ side to help him hold his arm up when it got tired so that the Israelites would win their battle

D&C 50:20-21

“Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth? Wherefore, he that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another, and both are edified and rejoice together.”

D&C 68:2-4

“And, behold, and lo, this is an ensample unto all those who were ordained unto this priesthood, whose mission is appointed unto them to go forth...And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost...And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

Quotes from Church Leaders

“Good inspiration is based on good information”

President Russell M. Nelson, April 2018

“A prophet is a prophet only when he is acting as such”

Joseph Smith — goes with D&C 68

“The very words of the revelation [in Section 68] recognize that the Brethren may speak when they are not "moved upon by the Holy Ghost," yet only when they do so speak, as so "moved upon," is what they say Scripture. No exceptions are given to this rule or principle. It is universal in its application. The question is, how shall we know when the things they have spoken were said as they were "moved upon by the Holy Ghost?" I have given some thought to this question, and the answer thereto so far as I can determine, is: We can tell when the speakers are "moved upon by the Holy Ghost" only when we, ourselves, are "moved upon by the Holy Ghost." In a way, this completely shifts the responsibility from them to us to determine when they so speak.

J. Reuben Clark

“Were your faith concentrated upon the proper object, your confidence unshaken, your lives pure and holy, every one fulfilling the duties of his or her calling according to the Priesthood and capacity bestowed upon you, you would be filled with the Holy Ghost, and it would be as impossible for any man to deceive and lead you to destruction as for a feather to remain unconsumed in the midst of intense heat”

Brigham Young, quoted by Pres Clark

“I propose that my counselors and fellow Presidents in the First Presidency shall share with me in the responsibility of every act which I shall perform in this capacity. I do not propose to take the reins in my own hands to do as I please; but I propose to do as my brethren and I agree upon and as the Spirit of the Lord manifests to us. I have always held, and do hold, and trust I always shall hold, that it is wrong for one man to exercise all the authority and power of presidency in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I dare not assume such a responsibility, and I will not, so long as I can have men like these to stand by and counsel with me in the labors we have to perform and in doing all those things that shall tend to the peace, advancement and happiness of the people of God and the building up of Zion ... If at any time my brethren of the Apostleship shall see in me a disposition to depart from this principle or a forgetfulness on my part of this covenant that I make today before this body of Priesthood, I ask them in the name of my Father, that they will come to me, as my brethren, as counselors in the Priesthood, as watchmen on the towers of Zion, and remind me of this covenant and promise which I make to the body of the Church in general conference assembled at this time...The Lord never did intend that one man should have all power, and for that reason He has placed in His Church Presidents, Apostles, High Priests, Seventies, Elders and the various offices of the Lesser Priesthood, all of which are essential in their order and place according to the authority bestowed on them”

Joseph F. Smith, quoted by Howard W. Hunter who bore testimony of that principle

“Our authorized Church works are the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. In the Church very wide latitude is given to individual belief and opinion, each man being responsible for his views and not the Church”

B.H. Roberts (member of the 70), 1887

“Air-brushing our prophets, past or present, is a wrenching of the scriptural record and a form of idolatry. God specifically said he called weak vessels so that we wouldn’t place our faith in their strength or power, but in God’s.”

Terryl Givens, “Letter to a Doubter”

“I don’t want you to think that I am very righteous, for I am not very righteous”

Joseph Smith Jr.

“When our leaders have spoken, the thinking is done.”

GEORGE ALBERT SMITH’s reply:

“Even to imply that members of the Church are not to do their own thinking is grossly to misrepresent the true ideal of the Church, which is that every individual must obtain for himself a testimony of the truth of the gospel, must, through the redemption of Jesus Christ, work out his own salvation, and is personally responsible to his maker for his individual acts.”

Literally the entire talk “FOURTEEN FUNDAMENTALS IN FOLLOWING THE PROPHET”

President Kimball was infuriated after President Benson gave that talk, censured him, demanded that he apologize to the entire rest of the Quorum of the Twelve for giving it. However (possibly due to dominant political beliefs of our culture?) the talk became all-but canonized by the most radical right-wingers of our faith, although it has a damning legacy

Examples of where unquestionably following our priesthood leaders has harmed us and others:

Baseball baptisms

Missionaries were baptizing small children without their parents’ consent in order for them to join little leagues in the 1960s; some missionaries voiced concerns about this, others didn’t because they liked appearing like the “best missionaries” and “best missions”

Great pain came from this and the image of the church in Europe and other places was tarnished by the Baseball Baptism program because parents were furious and local priesthood leaders were left to deal with the tragedies in the wake of them

Mountain Meadows Massacre

Large cadre of men were directed to dress up as Indians, attack a non-member pioneer wagon heading west. After the non-member wagon train surrendered, the men were each escorting an adult to their left. Their stake president gave them each the order to, when asked to “do their duty,” shoot the man, woman, or child to their left and kill them

Worst shooting in American history; worst case of white-on-white mass murder until the Oklahoma City Bombing, all because members refused to question the authority of their Stake President, who gave them the orders to kill.

What if one member had stood up, like Alexander Doniphan stood up to the general threatening to execute Joseph Smith?

“Baseball baptisms” happened for so long because people were afraid to express dissenting opinions about this practice

[hewholivesinhisname]

How Kabballists think

Like, why post anything?   The only thing you probably should be posting is anti-semitic conspiracy theories since, of course, they are true.  Or, you know, at least for some Jews.   Taking this androgyny stuff that is ambiguous at the beginning of the bible and ignoring the part later on when it says men cannot wear women’s clothing.   So, when you get this it’s pretty clear that they take all that “iniquity” language in the bible to refer to gender iniquity rather than economic iniquity.   then they probably have additional texts and stuff talking about how high and mighty and special they are above other humans. Maimonides doesn’t help of course since he says god does not have a body and leaves out the part about not confusing men and women’s clothing.  

I definitely know where this comes from which is that you need to come up with a way of stopping elite overpopulation and inducting a bunch of the elite into some genderless cult or other is a definite way of stopping them from having large families and letting those families just stomp all over the place, however this is clearly the wrong technique as these guys think they are “lights to the world” meaning that they are promoting it all over the place.  

So, birthrates of the world are plummetting, both due to the mass poisoning, radiation, but also just due to the changes in women’s rights and the promotion of birth control aborition, transgenderism and homosexuality.  Financially people cannot afford families and the men especially are disempowered in any number of ways.  We are living through an ongoing mass genocide perpetuated by a “super-secret” elitist branch of judaism.  

I would not be surprised if there is some level of judaism run by lesbians that has beliefs exactly like that of what is posted in the protocols of the elders of zion. they seem to be runnning off that might is right script after all and Learned Elders of Zion is abbreviated Lez, so this is the Lezzies talking.  Also in the “higher” realms of Judaism there is a lot more Shekhina worship going on, replacing god essentially with the goddess and in all those old goddess worshipping religions they said that the God was mortal but the goddess was immortal. 

So, with all this going on, you can see how I think things like the White horse prophecy of the mormons is going to come true.  That is, if anyone except a few bots collecting data on me read this. 

[autistic-dumbass]

Joshua graham is a bad person but so is Daniel. In my personal interpretation Joshua is in Zion for the sake of his redemption. Daniel is there to spread Mormonism. And of the two I think Daniel’s worst because he see no wrong in what he does.

Daniel infantilize the sorrow, thinks that they can escape the white legs and he will protect them. He lies to follow chalk about her husbands death. Uses the sorrows beliefs to convert them Mormonism.

Joshua at least recognized he’s done wrong and he isn’t making an active effort to convert the war horse. But all is does is talk about the evil he’s done he never tries to undone his deeds, he runs from his past.

Honest hearts is the worst because it tries to present a choice betweeen two colonizers.

"if you're upset over joshua graham and the racism of the writers uhhhhhhhh it's your fault actually"