#Ml child abuse

[chronicallylatetotheparty]

The thing about "sentimonsters are metaphorical" is that it's not metaphorical at all? The child abuse is still child abuse.

That doesn't change just because the method of said abuse is fictional.

Saying things like: "Children won't understand!"

Really feels like people are forgetting that it's a kids show. You can LITERALLY just explain it to them in Aesop form.

"Some parents are bad to their kids not because the kids did anything wrong but because they're bad parents."

"Bad parents punish kids harshly so they'll be too afraid of them to disobey."

"Kids shouldn't be afraid of their parents."

See? It's not that hard.

[familyagrestefanblog]

About recent takes of Félix’ father vs Gabriel, Félix’ guilt in “Emotion” & How the amok- child abuse of Adrien works (part 0.1 lol)

Just to make this clear right from the get-go (although is sad that such disclaimers need to be made again): No, this is not written as a Félix Defense Post, this is me writing out my analysis’ and other thoughts regarding way too much out-of-context stuff from “Emotion” and the one big confirmation of Félix’ indeed BEING an abuse victim from leaks which I will only incorrperate as vague concept since tbh I dont remember details and I’m not seeking it out for this.

Aright? Let’s go!

Where is all this stuff about Félix’ father coming from? Are those from even more leaks? From what I have seen in leaks of Félix saying something about the parenting he received I too got my confirmation that Félix’ father was abusive, but where is this coming from that Colt Fathom was alot WORSE than Gabriel?

In my opinion, that directly contradicts Félix’ attitude in “Emotion”. Who knows what exactly happened before that episode, though at the very least Félix most likely knows now that Adrien is Chat Noir and thats what made such a massive difference in him:

Also there was this out-of-nowhere second carmoflaged Black Cat-like ring Félix used as amok object that looked exactly like Adrien’s, although we see later that Adrien is still wearing his? That element of the episode was ridiculously out of context, but Félix’ knowing now that Adrien is Chat Noir makes its existence and the episode overall make alot more sense in my opinion.

Its basically the only way I can properly explain anything Félix-related that happened in “Emotion”, down to his behavior when he mentioned Chat Noir towards Ladybug:

Or the way Argos straight up refused to try and take Ladybug’s Miraculous away from her by his own force. He only asked/ threatened her to surrender her earrings to him but he never went further than that. In fact, her calmly stating that she would never give him her Miraculous was what set Félix over the edge in frustration, because he knew thats IT now. Taking it from her forcefully would mean she would speak up against him when he brings Adrien back (to get the Black Cat miraculous and because Félix WANTS him by his side on good terms), but he cant snap the girl behind the mask away either or else Adrien would see him as nothing but a villain if Félix only has her earrings but SHE is gone.

If Ladybug doesnt surrender her Miraculous and remains there to ensure with her words that Adrien too should give Félix his miraculous, where at that point Félix has the chance of explaining his plan to his cousin that noone is gone for real and he just wants to create a better world for them- which in Félix’ mind lead to a scenario in which he’s not the bad guy. Look, the boy knows he, Adrien and Kagami belong to a race of enslaved magical beings and are at the mercy of tyrannical abusers (Dude, what a sentence!). I’m not expecting rationality from Félix Fathom at this point. He was still 100% the bad guy in this, but I get it.

Also Fuck u Gloob, how dare YOU leave me without actual context for this shit?? xD)

But even without that... explanation-theory of mine, in episode 18 all I can see is Félix acting on SO MUCH god damn guilt towards Adrien and trying to free him from Gabriel. He literally states he tried to succeed in this episode for ADRIEN:

Then regarding Colt Fathom’s parenting again: when Félix confronts Gabriel about how Gabriel uses them, his family, he does not treat his uncle as a lesser monster than the one Félix (may have? Idk?) known as a father:

Félix went to the upmost extreme methods to get rid of Gabriel in this episode. He sees his uncle as nothing short of a tyrannical monster that needs to get taken out with a literal SNAP so Gabriel has no opportunity to stop him and be remade with a reality changing wish.

But most importantly, when Félix called Gabriel out he named ADRIEN first:

This was NOT Félix only doing it for himself and those are also not the actions and words of a person who views Gabriel as LESS of a dangerous tyrant bc of his own father. No matter how bad Colt Fathom was, Félix is not underestimating his uncle as the madman that he is. At least not ANYMORE!

Not in a single second of “Emotion” do I get the impression that Félix has NOT finally understood in what horrible position Adrien is caught in in Gabriel’s grasp (more on this regard for the Diamond Ball in an upcoming post I’ll link HERE). Which, yes, Félix too partly caused through the s4 finale. This is most likely why he goes to such insane lenghts to try to save Adrien.

Félix feels fucking GUILTY now in hindsight for having sold the one amok ring of his cousin he already had safe and sound in his possession back to Gabriel, along with 15 more miraculous’ to make him even MORE dangerous:

Which btw, GOOD!!! He should!

Anyway. While I dont understand where these takes about how much worse Colt Fathom was to Félix than Gabriel to Adrien come from, that claim does seems to be very accurate though to Félix’ point of view of Adrien’s abuse BEFORE season 5. Hence why he was being so god damn awful to his cousin and SOLD HIM TO HIS ABUSER!

The way I see it right now, Colt Fathom was abusive on Gabriel Agreste’s level but he did it in ways more open and “obvious”.

Gabriel is an extremely abusive father, but the worst thing about him has always been that he abuses Adrien in a way for which people cannot easily get him for it. Sure, there has always been ALOT to worry about under the circumstances after Emilie “died” but Gabriel Agreste has always made sure whatever he does to his son he remains untouchable enough from a normal legal perspective.

I’m not sure if child protection services could ever have actually helped Adrien even if they tried, because while Gabriel has been stretching all lines of possible slack problematic parents are being given - because the child cant nor SHOULD immediately be taken away from their parent if not truly necessary - Gabriel has never made.. that ONE slip-up too much and too out-of-line that could set Adrien free from him.

And in my opinion, thats what the show is going for because thats what Félix realized at some point prior to episode 18 about Gabriel’s treatment of Adrien and Adrien’s own behavior towards his father, for which Félix gave him massive shit for just last season:

Félix made a full-blown 180 regarding Adrien, thats the only way I can explain it.

Its GUILT. Guilt and the desperate attempt to save his cousin from the horrible consequences Félix had a HUGE part in unleashing and to be able to somehow manage to somewhat save the strong and basically brother-like bond he and Adrien once had as cousins.

And I dont care what anyone says, its by far the one bond Adrien has with anyone besides Plagg in which he’s literally 100% his authentic self and not any degree of Adrien Agreste™ or Chat Noir™. Seriously, if you wanna see Adrien behaving like nothing but a normal boy, watch him interact with his cousin who’s basically his BROTHER.

And it doesnt even matter how much of a damn dick Félix became, in any interaction these two had in the show you could easily SEE how close these two were/are from Adrien’s behavior. Which btw, makes Félix actions before s5 alot worse, but thats the point. This is WHY he goes as far as he does in “Emotion”. Because they once HAD such an incredibly close bond as Adrien’s “naively trusting” behavior towards him always claimed.

The bond which FÉLIX comitted to burn into the ground in s3-s4:

Guilt I can only explain in the same only way I can possibly explain Félix throwing Adrien under the bus as awfully as he did til s5, and in particular the s4 finale:

I can only explain it if Félix all his life had received the other - but in this case pretty much equal - side of the spectrum of abusive parenthood and Adrien’s abuse simply looked so different and way more ”subtle” and “acceptable by society’s standarts” from what Félix’ knew as highly abusive (when he finally gained freedom through getting his ring, probably at his father’s funeral hence why Adrien wasnt allowed to be there. It’s where Félix has told he’s a Sentihuman) that he didnt recognize it as such and therefore ended up hardcore victim-blaming his cousin because he has it “so much better” under Gabriel’s fist but “still cant take initiative like Félix does”.

Félix at the end of “Strike Back” in my opinion truly thought that even though his uncle is a delusional, tyrannical man, Adrien would be the ONLY person safe ENOUGH with him and from him (I know this sounds like a hypocritical cop-out, but Félix is literally in the ONE family position as Adrien’s close and only cousin, who’s also the only other child in their families but always also lived far away enough to not be around to wittness most of Adrien’s and Gabriel’s father-son dynamic behind closed doors [especially in the last, and most crucial year], that I simply have to say that.. this is so god. damn. realistic. This is a way too realistic variation of how the once close children in abusive families end up as bitter rivals throwing each other under the bus within their own absive family system.)

Félix thought that Adrien is as per usual the ONE exception for Gabriel in EVERYTHING, so giving Papa Agreste the control object and 15 more miraculous’ he can fry his brain away with simply... wouldnt have meant endangering Adrien’s entire life in Félix’ eyes.

Which WE know is the WRONG damn reading of the situation!

But for Félix Adrien was his uncle’s one weakness “out of fatherly love” Félix most likely never knew himself, because Gabriel put/s ALOT of effort into keeping his son in the dark (”overprotectiveness”) which lead Félix to even blantantly using Adrien against GABRIEL bc he knew that threatening to tell Adrien would be the most effective way to make his uncle instantly stop denying that he’s Shadowmoth:

(Also, notice how in the upper picture when Gabriel is denying that he’s Shadowmoth, Flairmidable is shot from the ONE - the ONE - possible angle from where his character model looks similar to Chat Noir.

With whatever tons of context we are apparently missing from prior to “Emotion” regarding this entire Agreste, Graham de Vanily/ Fathom and Tsurugi mess, this visual forshadowing in “Strike Back” is in SOME WAY apparently about to become relevant now. Most likely through Nathalie but eyyyyyy, its not like we have any kind of DAMN context! <3 :D)

I already long assumed Félix’ awful but NEW behavior towards Adrien since his father’s funeral to be the result of Félix despising Adrien bc Gabriel burdened his nephew with the knowledge of being Sentihuman in the worst way and at the worst time possible while “overprotecting” Adrien. But now with “Emotion” it seemed I read it mostly right.

The way I see it, Félix did the one thing unnervingly not even uncommon in abusive families: He couldnt recognize his cousin’s extreme abuse because he was too blinded by his own that looked different, while simultaneously comparing Gabriel’s life-long treatment of him and Adrien.

And since Gabriel has probably always treated him unfairly and “worse” than Adrien in Félix’ eyes (which was probably primarily more arrogant indifference from Gabriel’s side while treating Adrien as a golden boy) Félix then most likely thought that HE was the one truly in danger of Gabriel because he isnt Adrien, when Gabriel in actuality probably wouldnt have paid his nephew alot of mind at all and would have had included him automatically in the new reality for Adrien’s sake if - ironically - Félix’ hadnt involved himself and made himself a thorn in Gabriel’s side by now out of (UNDERSTANDABLE) fear and paranoia.

So yeah, still: Fuck Gabriel.

But back to Félix’ possible abuse from his father and how that blinded him to Adrien’s:

(No, I’m not forgetting Amelie and EMILIE, this is just getting WAY too much for this one post. The three mother figures of this family (Emilie, Amelie and Nathalie) are the crucial puzzle pieces in the Agreste’s & Graham de Vanily’s narrative. I’m gonna tackle that in posts dedicated to them specifically)

If Félix for example was more physically abused with open disdain from Colt Fathom than emotionally manipulated, used and gaslit out of “love”, then he would have a hard time at first (especially if he’s UNWILLING to see it) to understand or even just recognize to certain degree all the red flags of that what Gabriel is doing to Adrien resultes/d in emotional scars so bad that Adrien was/is pretty much suicidal at times and spend most of the show stuck in his mental and emotional escapism as Chat Noir (Still, I’m also pretty sure Félix SHOULD have been the ONE person who SHOULD have recognized the resemblance between Adrien Agreste and Chat Noir, the same way Félix was able to recognize Gabriel as Shadowmoth. But ironically, for that he was too blinded by his victim-blaming of Shadowmoths SON)

And if Félix only has ONE amok object and that means whoever wore it (his father) has 100% control over him, then he could (have) significantly underestimate(d) how BAD the emotional toll on Adrien would have been all his life when he always had TWO objects and that - I must assume - resulted in two 50/50 control holds over him:

(Disclaimer at this point: The show is very consistently exploring 3 unique ways for Adrien, Félix and Kagami in how the same peacock amok control resulted in very individual abuse situations for each of them. The amok abuse is not inconsistend or poorly explained, it was never meant to be a 1 for 3 explaination the same way you cant generalize ONE case of parental abuse for ALL existing abused kids. The show is treating this as legit child abuse the way it should. And yes, I will elaborate on all of that in ALOT more detail in future.)

Meaning only Adrien’s action and emotional compliance can be controlled but not his emotions themselves, which I see no reason to not be the default for Sentihuman who only have one object. Meaning for example, that if Colt Fathom didnt wanted Félix to care about any kind of bond with another person his age but his cousin, then Félix simply would have never felt the desire to have friends and therefore also never learnt how to handle the emotional pain of not getting to have them as Adrien was “allowed to”. Adrien didnt get to have friends either, but I suppose unless you wear BOTH his rings no order about forbidding him to have friends would have stopped him from still feeling the longing to have them anyway.

So Adrien’s sounds “better enough” on surface level - which is all Félix would have seen - but its actually massively fucked up bc the clash between Adrien’s natural emotions and the actions his body and mind are forced to obey would quickly beat a young childs mind into misery and helpless fawning on their own expense just to mentally survive that constant invasion of their mind by TWO sources they cant explain to themselves.

Adrien may have been “allowed” to still have emotions but his living conditions would have quickly turned that into emotional agony because Adrien would still be forced to burry everything deep inside that clashes with his parents orders, or whenever he thinks that his behavior or voiced desires would lead to him being shut down again. Its a malicious circle that pretty much accurately represents the normal cycle of emotional oppression within “regular” emotional child abuse.

Not that being 100% controlled physically and emotionally bc of having just ONE amok is in any way “better” (Holy shit, nah!, and I’ll get to Félix’ and Kagami’s abuse in their own posts), but I cant imagine having TWO the way Adrien does as anything short of mental and emotional oppression & exhaution at best - since Adrien ever since infanthood would always have to FEEL the pain of his orders directly going against something that would make him happy/ one of his basic needs and yet he has to submit to it anyway - or basically torment at worst.

Cause can you imagine if Gabriel’s and Nathalie’s contradicting orders in “Protection” would CLASH in the same moment?? GOSH!!!

This pretty much emotionally ripped Adrien back and forth between the two wearers of his amok rings the ENTIRE TIME ever since BIRTH, which would perfectly explain why Adrien is so emotionally repressed, resilient to impossible levels and instandly tends/tended to remain in denial and fawn or submit as copying mechanism. That would have been the only way he could have mentally survived TWO PEOPLE controlling him at once against his own emotions ever since he was a BABY.

I’d say its a reality check on THIS caliber that made Félix pull a 180 regarding his attitude towards Adrien - again, most likely through Nathalie (who I think would be the most logical person for Adrien now to choose to tell his secret Identity to if he needs help in managing to keep his secret save from his father) and SHE would get Félix involved because he’s aware of Gabriel, has the peacock miraculous and KNOWS what pain Sentihumans go through. But honestly, anything in this direction is guessing into pitch darkness lol.

I have so, SO much more to say on how the control of Sentihumans works but especially Adrien’s unique case of him having TWO objects. I’ve been analysing the Agreste houshold in this regard since around the beginning of s4, but that definitely deserves its own massive post(s) the same way Kagami’s abuse via amok ring (which she got to wear ever since AFTER her debut episode “Riposte”) deserves it own post seperated from Félix’ and this one here.

This is getting SO interesting, I’m LIVING for this scale of fucked up story telling! I just wished we would get it in the right chronological order so I can look at it with all the NEEDED context, Gloob, come ON!

[purplecatghostposts]

I think one of the many reasons of why I love the episode Emotion so much is because with added context of Félix’s backstory, he’s doing exactly what he would’ve wanted someone to do for him.

Félix learned his father was abusive and controlling very early on due to his actions and never actually hiding it from him, unlike Adrien with Gabriel or Kagami with Tomoe, who are still struggling with their parents controlling their lives in a very literal sense. Kagami and Adrien might get frustrated and/or rebel against their parents at certain points, but at this point in the story, neither have quite gotten to the point where they realize that their parents are outright abusive due to emotional manipulation, so when Félix gets rid of their parents, they’re both very distressed and angry with him.

Félix however? Félix had probably wanted his father gone for a long time. There’s a good chance he often wished someone could get rid of him for him, as his ring barred him from doing it himself, or that his father would simply disappear forever. So even if that ship has long since sailed given his father is dead now, Félix sees Adrien with his father and Kagami with her mother and immediately jumps to, “I always wished I could be free of my father, I should do the same for them, they probably want that too.”

Which. Doesn’t go over so well. Both still want to try to fix their relationship with their respective parent. Even if we see how badly that goes in Pretension, with Tomoe both literally and figuratively trying to strip Kagami of her freedom, that choice is ultimately up to them.

If the situation were reversed however? If Félix was the one still stuck with his father and someone snapped his father and 99% of the world away just so they could be together and safe and happy, there’s a good chance he’s seeing this as a dream come true, or at the very least, is extremely touched by the gesture.

(Anyways happy birthday to my favorite episode in the show)

[wehadabondingmoment]

Okay, I have thoughts about this.

First of all: What the fuck?

Second of all: I love how Gabriel didn't even give him a bed or chair or anything, just a metaphorical slap in the face. It's a TWO-PLAYER-GAME are you serious Gabe!??

Third of all: WHAT ABOUT LADYBUG?? She has no idea Chat is in London or locked away, he sure as hell didn't have time to tell her. For all she knows, he could have been in a serious accident or sth?

Also: Adrien can't even talk to Plagg because Gabriel would see his lips moving?? What in the solitary confinement-

[gryficowa]

You know what irritates me? Text about white privilege (No, it's not that I'm mad that it's said that white people get sympathy more often, because it's true, I can confirm that, yes, I'm white myself, but I've seen so much shit that I agree with that), specifically addressed in the fandom to underage characters, who are victims of their parents (Mean characters who are mean because of toxic relationships or abuse), it sounds weird, like writing off a child for being defenseless because he is white and has rich parents, WTF

I saw it often with Chloe from miracolous, but it also happened with Pacifica from GF, that their redemption or sympathy in the fandom was related to it, people are children, often victims of their parents' abuse (in Pactfika it is the father, in Chloe it is mother), saying that white privilege is disgusting by context, so what, that they come from rich families when violence occurs in them? Are we seriously going in this direction when we attack characters who are children because they do not want to burn them at the stake? (Although Chloe is an accident and the worst thing is that many people defend it, I remind you, she is fucking 14 years old)

Have we seriously gone in such a bad direction that we want children to be harmed because they are white and have rich parents? I wonder if if these nasty characters were non-white, would you feel the same way, because they are also privileged, because many non-white people are not wealthy, so if they are victims of abuse, you should ignore it, because they are too privileged…

White privilege is then, for example, the approach of the police towards whites, which is different from the way the police see black or Latino people, or the case of Ukraine, which is more publicized while Palestine, Sudan and Congo are silent, this can already be called white privilege , not a child who is a victim of violence, damn it

If redeeming a white child who was a victim of violence is a white privilege for you, then something went wrong with your thinking, Chloe and Pacifica are two spectrums, one was thrown into the wrong pile by its creator, while the other got redemption (Maybe it wasn't as good as Sasha and Amita, but it inspired the creation of these two and I love it)

It's just irrational to me to say that a white child who is a victim of parental violence or struggles with other issues cannot be redeemed, or others cannot want this character to be redeemed, because it means white privilege, which makes no sense. the child is not privileged, rich parents are not a feature of privilege, when they abuse this child, the child is not privileged on many levels, because it does not have the privilege of safety, parent-child relationship, lack of loneliness, etc.

As you will notice, many non-white characters have such privileges, which shows the bleak world of this character who you consider "Privileged", in the real world he would struggle with problems related to poor parenting and go to therapy, she would also have a lower view of his problems because "Others have it worse", so she would lead to ignorance of her mental state by constantly telling herself that things are not that bad

Many people with this type of parenting end up like this, either they have narcissistic traits (Chloe and Pacifica) or they look at themselves worse (Amity)

If you believe that responding to this type of violence is "White Privilege", then you ignore that being white does not always mean that you are "Privileged" (LGBT+ people, people with disabilities, autistic people, women, etc.), because it is doesn't work, yes you are in some but you are not in many

A child who experiences violence is not privileged, regardless of whether he is white or his parents are rich, because he is a victim, and being a victim is not a privilege, it is the opposite of "Privilege"

I had to write this because it pisses me off in the fandom, it is not an attack on non-white people, it is an attack on people who think that white = privileged (Which, as I mentioned, has nothing to do with the truth, because so what if you are white, if you are a victim of discrimination due to your orientation, gender, disability or origin? Exactly…), look at children for what they are and what they experience, not on their skin color and the wealth of their parents, because now you deny violence in the case of children who are white and their parents are rich, and all violence should be seen in the same way, because a child is weaker than an adult, no matter what wrong he or she does, you should look at him as a child and remember that his brain is not fully developed to make you 100% aware that what she is doing is wrong

Yes, the child should be punished, but he or she should also receive support, because often doing bad things is a child's cry for help (he often does not understand how he hurts others, and often does it to regulate the emotions that are inside) and yes, you can feel it with Chloe (Who, as I mentioned, was put in the wrong pile by Thomas and many people in the fandom, which shows a big problem, the creator himself and many of the fandom also deny that Chloe's mother abused her, which is sick)

It's just that when you are an adult and you see how many adults in the fandom hate a child, you shake your head, because no matter how much the character irritates you, wanting him to suffer shows that you are not yet mature enough to understand the seriousness of the situation of what you want. for this child to experience, using the argument "Because it's fictional" is weak, because it's still a child, so it doesn't deserve your hatred, but an attempt to understand

Children are irritating, children are cruel, because their brain is not fully developed, finally understand it, they have not yet developed empathy and understanding at the same level as you

So your argument about "White Privilege" in this context sounds cruel, because you are directly saying that reacting to violence when a child is white and has a rich family should not be saved because he is mean and cries for help in his behavior, that's how it is terrible train of thought that makes me wonder what went wrong in your life, being a victim should not be about wanting others to suffer, it should be about wanting others not to experience this, yes, I was a scapegoat (Before I was diagnosed with ASD, mutism and social phobia), I was always "Abnormal" and everyone was laughing at me (They were teasing me, I mean…), no one told me why, and when I asked, it ended with laughter…

Do I now want every able-bodied person to experience this? No, because no one deserves it, I can only hope that those who teased me feel remorse today, but they are ashamed to say it and suppress everything inside themselves, this is already enough punishment for everything, no more is needed

I don't want other children to experience this, I don't want children who do this to be punished for their parents' mistakes, but they get help when they have time to change and become better, this is something they should get, not a stack waiting to be burned

Children don't know what good and evil are, children follow the crowd, children can't handle emotions so they hurt others to feel better, children are children and we can only help them understand or help them with their problems

I just had to write about what irritates me in this way of thinking…

[generalluxun]

Looking at the episode listings now & Season 3 just gets more tragic, cos from Chloe's perspective its like this:

Mums back, but still hates me (Killed me) but hey I can be a super hero cos destiny, chance, choice whatever!

Oh no, I messed up being a super hero, was humiliated before everyone and... Well at least mom seems to like me now?

Followed with, well everyone hates me and I'm useless I might as well leave, oh gosh Ladybug thinks I can be good and useful & chose me!

Capped off with, I helped Ladybug and the rest of the team battle an army of Akuma, we almost defeated Hawk Moth and even had a team photo!

Like, yes I know you know all this, sorry, but like...

From her perspective at the end of season 2, she had zero reason to think she was not on the team.

Then its months of radio silence, rejections and battles at her door.

Still, she tries at times, like with Star Train, even if no one takes her seriously.

Then she's targeted by the villains & almost manages to defeat Hawk Moths second in command but is told she can't be hero anymore.

Followed very shortly afterwards by her parents declaring she only loves herself, attacking her and Ladybug choosing the only other hero with a known identity & then Hawk Moth ambushing her.

Again you know this, but it really does just emphasize the tragedy to me.

Now,

I am sure there will be someone who will go, "She's not owed a Miraculous" and sure, but frankly no one is owed super powers. Or, "Marinette is not obligated to help improve a girl who is always awful to her." Again, fair in concept, but here's the issue.

As I noted elsewhere, she already was chosen to use a Miraculous several times, as in sequentially there were no massive gaps that would give her the impression this would be a rare or one off thing.

Thing is, as only Ladybug is making these calls & chose her each time despite their history it is Ladybug's job to tell her that it was never going to last. Or at least order someone else too, or to have opted against choosing her again in the first place.

& as for Marinette, well again, she wasn't obliged to try and fix the family situation but she chose too. We can argue about whether it was in character to try, or the method she picked was out of character.

But within the context of the story, she did opt to insert herself into the this situation. It feels disingenuous to then turn around and say she can just divorce herself from it. If nothing else, she should maybe like... Tell an adult?

Like, its for sure a messy situation.

I'm not blaming Marinette for how messy it became but I do think its fair to note how this would look from Chloe's perspective without Marinette or our audience context. IE, her beloved idol who she's given adoration & obedience told her she could be a good & useful hero; then dropped her for months, & seemingly lied about why.

I also think its fair to note that regardless of whether it was the personally logical or morally right choice, Marinette did choose to involve herself of her own accord. Even suggesting involving Chloe could make her a better person! So people acting as though she's, at the very least, not involved at all is just feels disingenuous ya now?

The Season 3 finalé sets up so much for the folks who believe S4/5 was a retcon as opposed to plan. I don't think it was a retcon, but I DO believe it was a betrayal of the narrative before that point.

The S3 Finalé frames Chloé's fall *explicitly* as a tragedy. Fu uses the phrase 'Some lose hope' to describe her situation. Losing hope isn't an act of evil, it's an act of desperation and defeat. In a greater sense it is also framed as a failure of *Ladybug*.

Because no matter what people want to say about Marinette's duty to hep, *Ladybug* does have duties and responsibilities. On her watch a child was isolated and broken down over several episodes by Hawkmoth and Mayura. Season 3 starts the pattern of Ladybug failing with every Finale *Which is a very weird story to write!*

Now, the S3 Finalé would have worked as a low-point/mistake for LB to circle back to and address shortly after. Have her find out about Hawkmoth/Mayura's manipulation, about Queen Bee confronting Mayura and rejecting her. About her rejecting an akuma before anyone else. Have Marinette discover that things are not what they appeared on the surface (come on this is a classic theme for superheros!) and institute a process of mending fences. Ladybug grows from the experience, Chloé clearly will have growing to do too. In the end though the abused child is heard, and healing/help is given.

Instead they just went with 'nah ignore all the setup, Chloé is just evil, always has been, she is actually the abuser not her parents, and she deserves it.' (A statement Thomas wrote into S5E23 which was removed in production without his knowledge)

So yeah, no wonder people think it was a retcon. There's no world where the reality makes sense.

[ninadove]

Felix and Kagami understand the plot and themes of the series better than any of us could

Look at them go

[fernsnouveau]

What if we suggested that if you can't defend the Miraculous S5 ending without sounding like Mother Gothel, don't do it at all?

[iwasbored777]

All I'm saying is Gabriel didn't want to akumatize his son when he was still doing Nathalie but now that he's doing Tomoe he is so eager to akumatize the boy. His new side piece clearly gave him some advices on how to abuse children better, she has experience.

[thedepressedweasel]

Adrien Agreste really deserves better (and so does Chloe Bourgeois)

ML Writers: *deliberately fuck up the show for its fanbase by still allowing Gabriel Agreste and Audrey Bourgeois to keep controlling their respective kids after the 5th season finale* ML Fans: *complain to said writers about it and rightfully so* ML Writers: Never fucking message us again! We write what we write and we can make the show however we want and if you don't like it, FUCK OFF!!!!11!!!11one!!11!!

[familyagrestefanblog]

I think people wouldnt still be so hard in denial about Adrien, Félix and Kagami being Sentihumans and what horrible stuff that automatically involves if yall would just stop calling them "monsters".

Félix even reacts badly to that word in "Emotion" and then outright says in "Pretention" that Kagami should stop calling them that. You're basically using a highly offensive slur which of course is going to cause a reaction in you like "No, their not monsters! This can't be! Their not soulless, worthless creatures unworthy of human dignity and life!"

Yeah no shit Sherlock, then stop saying Sentimonster and just call them human - Sentihuman if you have to specify for the topic at hand - because that's exactly what they are cause that's what they were brought into this world to be: humans. And the "unworthy of human dignity and life" part should be a no brainer too. Literally no one is forcing you to treat these characters inhumanly, and if you feel like the narrative is asking you to do so and disregard their lives and personhood then maybe think about that this is exactly the kind of emotional and physical oppression and enslavement these three children are living under ever since they were born.

If it makes you feel awful and uncomfortable then congratulations, you got the point.

[little-mari-on-a-roof]

even though Felix creating a senti to display the whole representation seems very contradictory to his beliefs, I think what's important to take into account the nature of the senti. if you create sentibeings to be like children, you should treat them with all the respect humans are due. if you create senti"monsters", they are somewhat sentient beings despite not being humans or having a fully developed consciousness, and so you shouldn't throw them on the surface of the sun. but it representation what he created was just a random object. like yeah it was created the same way they were, but at the end of the day it's just a projector. it doesn't matter

[wehadabondingmoment]

Chapter 10 of my senti!Adrien Post Hawk Moth-defeat fanfic is out! This is straight up the best thing I have ever written so if you want to read any of my stuff, read this.

It was strange, seeing his father again after all this time. He was sitting there, hands neatly folded on his lap. He looked entirely out of place in prison, his calm composure being ridiculed by his tangerine clothes. They were dirty and mute in the flickering light, yet they didn't fail to assault Adrien’s eyes, burning the color that was so unlike his father deep into his mind. 

“Adrien,” Gabriel greeted him with a smile. “I see you got my invitation.”  

‘What invitation?’ Adrien wanted to ask. He hadn't received anything. 

[verfound]

MINIFIC: Oct. 23: Day 8: Under the Bed (MLB, Lukanette, DLM AU)

Content/Trigger Warning: Abusive Parent & Child Death. Nothing graphic, but you know what's going on.

For @lovebugs-and-snakecharmers October Minific Challenge 2023.

Read on Ao3

To Feel Alive Again: Ch8: Under the Bed

(Potentially Triggering content under the cut)

“Where are you, you little shit?!”

Marinette refused to let herself jump at the crash from downstairs.  Her arm tightened around the little girl beside her, who was shaking like a leaf.  She couldn’t blame her.  She was scared, too.  Absolutely terrified.

…but at least Marinette knew she would be leaving this house a…whatever she was that passed for alive these days.

“Marinette, wait,” Mendeleiev called, her eyes staying on her puzzle book as she spoke.  Luka hung back a moment, glancing between them, but Mendeleiev discreetly shooed him with two fingers lifted from the back of her book.  An annoyed look flickered across his face, but it was gone before Marinette could be certain she actually saw it.  He looked at her one more time, but she nodded.

“I’ll catch up,” she said.  His lips pressed into a thin line, but he nodded before following after Fred and Théo.  She sat back down in the booth and gave Mendeleiev a hesitant smile.  “Yes?”

She had been making an effort lately.  Had been good.  Mendeleiev hadn’t felt the need to check up on her in over a month.  What could she have possibly done to land herself back on the head reaper’s radar?

Shit list, a voice that sounded suspiciously like Luka grumped in the back of her mind.  She tried not to smile at it.

“Your reap today,” Mendeleiev said, her eyes still on her word search.  She tapped her pen against the page and circled another word.  “Don’t fuck it up.”

“…excuse me?” she asked, blinking at the older woman.  Mendeleiev finally raised her eyes from her puzzle book, her brow furrowed.

“You’re a good person, Marinette,” she said.  Marinette frowned, unsure where she was going with that.  “It can make you…impulsive.  We –” she gestured between them, indicting reapers, Marinette assumed “–can’t afford to be impulsive.”

“I’m afraid I don’t understand,” Marinette said.  Mendeleiev reached across the table and laid her hand over her own.  It was a surprisingly comforting gesture, for someone like Mendeleiev.

“Do the job,” she said, her voice uncharacteristically kind.  “Reap the soul.  Show them their lights.  And walk away.”

“…who is A. Rousseau?” she asked, looking at her post-it.  The address was a few blocks away, and she had two hours to get there.  Mendeleiev squeezed her hand and let go, turning back to her puzzle.

“Your reap,” she said, circling another word.  “Now go on, kid.  You don’t want to keep them waiting.”

Marinette held Abigail Rousseau closer, trying not to show any fear or weakness as the girl trembled.  As something glass shattered down the hall and a dog yelped.

“Muffy!” Abigail cried, and Marinette cursed as she squirmed away from her and crawled out from the bed they’d been hiding under.

“Abby, no!” Marinette called, reaching after her.  Her hand slipped along Abigail’s leg, and Marinette sucked in a breath as…she popped her soul.

Just like she was supposed to.

Do the job.

But the job was a child.

And walk away.

How could she walk away from this?

Abigail ran out of the room and down the hall, screaming for her papa to leave Muffy alone, that it wasn’t the dog’s fault, please, papa, no!

“…wait,” Marinette whispered, tears burning in the corners of her eyes.  “Please, Abby.  Wait…”

Her hand clenched into a fist at the screams that followed.  At the screams that stopped.  She felt a shifting beside her – a change in the air pressure, or maybe just a shimmer where something was that hadn’t been a moment before.  A soul manifesting after…

“…is it over?” the soul that had been Abigail Rousseau asked, her voice so quiet in the suddenly still house.  Marinette took a shaky breath, refusing to cry in front of the already scared girl.

“…yeah,” she said, turning and giving her the best smile she could manage.  From the corner of her eye, she saw the girl’s lights shimmering and heard the echo of a dog barking.  Abby’s face lit up, and then she was scrambling again, this time racing towards somewhere Marinette hoped was much better than the hell she was leaving behind.  “It’s over.”

[generalluxun]

From what I’ve noticed, the people who are defensive of Chloe’s end in Revolution also defend Derision, despite it being a clear retcon. Derision makes Adrien saying, “She’ll never change,” in Despair Bear seem much darker considering that according to Derision, Chloe caused Marinette so much trauma. Marinette even chuckled when Adrien said it, which makes Derision feel even more out of place.

Derision is trash. The retcons and the way characters who are not Chloé are absolutely massacred alongside her just to push the retcon make any arguments based on it pointless.l to engage with. Anyone who considers Derision valid is already willing to ignore actual on screen counterpoints and characterizations to support whatever narrative they are force fed.

Sabine and Tom? Bustier? Damocles? You need to accept they are all indifferent to Marinette suffering at the bare minimum and I am pretty sure that hasn't been the characterization the show was looking for.

Even *if* Derision is allowed, for the sake of argument, Revolution and Derision are separated hy a year. A year in which Chloé was going through changes. She saved Ladybug twice, even before she got the Bee. She was making (baby steps) changes. *That* Chloé did more to show her changes than Felix, Nathalie, or Gabe. *That* Chloé did not deserve to be shoved back into the clutches of her abuser in Queen Wasp. She didn't deserve to be manipulated by Gabe, Nathalie, Tomoé, and Lila, all while everyone was ignorant or willfully ignored what was happening.

So: Even if you point to Derision, no, Revolution still doesn't hold water. Two more points:

1)Chloé with her mother is what Marinette wanted in Queen Wasp was it presented as punishment? Was Marinette deliberately hurting her, and were we the audience supposed to enjoy the suffering that would come after that moment? No? Then why should the exact same thing be considered 'punishment' and 'justice' in Revolution?

2)Child abuse is never okay. Child abuse is not justice.

[causalityparadoxes]

Felix did not spend his last two episode waxing lyrical about the validity of Senti lives and the fact that controlling them is body horror and child abuse for yall to say Adrien is 'just a feather' and not a real boy.