#Mike can be read as gay or bi here

[unfinishedslurs]

RIP Mike Wheeler’s heterosexuality

“Is being gay contagious?”

Steve stares at his phone groggily before putting it back against his ear. “…Mike?”

“Is it?”

“It’s three in the fuckin’ morning is what it is.” He rubs his nose, Mike’s words finally catching up to his brain. “Seriously, Mike? No it’s not fucking contagious, you’re not gonna get the gay disease or whatever from me. I promise you’ll keep liking girls.”

He’s a little hurt, even though he knows the question is innocent. They’ve been asking a lot of questions, like the inquisitive little assholes they are, but none of them had seemed like they weren’t okay with it. Until now.

“…that’s not what I meant,” Mike says. Steve realizes that his voice sounds shaky, even over the phone.

“Then what—“ he cuts himself off, realizing halfway through his bitching that there was only one reason Mike would call about this. “Oh.”

“Can you pick me up?”

“It’s three in the morning,” he repeats, even as he starts wondering where he left his keys. “Your mom…”

“Steve,” Mike pleads. “Please?”

He sighs. “I’m on my way.”

Mike is sitting on his doorstep when he pulls up, head in his hands. Steve doesn’t have to get out of the car, he stalks to the passenger door with all the vitriol of a boy with too many emotions to hold in, and wrenches the door open hard enough that Steve worries he’s going to break it.

“Watch it, noodle arms,” he says, trying to pretend this is normal. Maybe if he acts like it’s not well past midnight, Mike will relax.

It doesn’t work. Mike slumps in his seat, not bothering with the seatbelt. “Can you just drive?”

Steve drives. Doesn’t really know where they’re going, but it doesn’t matter. Just away seems to suffice.

He eventually pulls into a side road

“I’m scared to even touch another guy now! Because apparently hugging is gay when you’re older, and so is sleeping in the same bed, and telling your friends you love them, and…and I’m fucking scared all the time, ‘cause what if they’re right? How do they know? How can they tell by just fucking looking at me? It’s bullshit!”

“Shit, kid,” Steve says, heartbroken. “Shit. C’mere.”

He pulls him close, and Mike turns his face into the crook of his neck, shaking. His shirt collar starts to get damp.

“I don’t know what to do,” he cries. “I thought it was normal, I thought everyone was just…so scared all the time, and we just didn’t talk about it. But then you said that thing about being afraid and pushing it down, and I didn’t— I tried to ignore it. I tried so hard not to think about it, Steve, I swear I tried.”

“I know you did,” he says quietly. It hits him that he might be the only one who really gets it. Eddie gave up denying it long ago, deciding to evolve into something else for them to focus on. Robin’s a girl. Which doesn’t mean jack shit in most cases, because being a lesbian fucking sucks in a town like Hawkins, but girls aren’t as obsessive about it. Sometimes when they compare notes, Robin will just stare at him.

Mike shakes his head. “I don’t know what I did wrong,” he mumbles tearfully into his shoulder.

“You didn’t do anything wrong,” Steve says with a surprising amount of vehemence. He grabs Mike by his scrawny little shoulders, pulls him away so he can look directly into his bloodshot eyes. “Not a damn thing, do you hear me? There is nothing wrong with you, and anyone who tells you otherwise deserves a swift kick in the balls. Got it?”

Mike responds by bursting into loud, messy sobs.

Steve just keeps holding him, running a hand through his hair and soothing him gently, like he wishes someone had done for him or Robin or Eddie when they were young. Finally Mike pulls away, embarrassment starting to set in.

“Sorry,” he mutters.

“Can I tell you a secret?” Steve asks instead of a meaningless platitude he knows Mike wouldn’t accept.

Mike gives him a suspicious look. “I guess.”

“I’m scared too. All the time.”

“No you’re not,” Mike snorts. “You don’t need to make me feel better just because I’m a pussy.”

“I’m not joking,” he says. “Why do you think I dated girls? Why do you think I went through so many lengths to hide it? It’s fucking terrifying, man. But you know what makes it less scary?”

“Dating girls? Marrying a woman?”

“No.” He pokes Mike’s chest, right over his heart. “People. Friends who love and accept you. Friends who know what you’re going through, even.”

“Do you…” Mike chews his lip. “Do you think Nancy would be okay with it? With me?”

“Absolutely I do. She was okay with me, wasn’t she? And I was her boyfriend.”

“Yeah, but it’s different when it’s your family, right? Sometimes people don’t care if someone is… people don’t care until it affects them. Do you think Nancy is like that?”

He knows Nancy isn’t like that, but that's a talk they’re going to have to have themselves. “I really don’t,” he encourages. “I think she’d be really glad to know this part of you, actually. She loves you.”

“…I know,” he says, shifting uncomfortably. “I don’t… we made this dumb no secrets pact the first time the Upside-Down happened, I don’t know why. It’s stupid. But…I don’t want to keep secrets from her anymore.”

[ladykailitha]

The Harrington Pattern Part 9

As you guys wanted, here's me doubling up on posting days. It will (hopefully) be twelve hours apart so that each chapter can get some love.

In this chapter we have a lot of flirting between Eddie and Steve. The Party being "meh" *shrugs shoulders* at Steve being bi. And Robin being the most soulmate a guy could ask for.

Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 Part 8

MY TAG LIST FOR THIS STORY IS CLOSED!!!!

@mira-jadeamethyst @rozzieroos @itsall-taken @redfreckledwolf @emly03

****

That night they were all gathered to watch the amateur theatrical society put on Much Ado About Nothing.

Even the ones who had been reluctant to join in were doubled over in laughter at the trick the Prince pulled on Beatrice and Benedict. The way they cried when Hero was accused of cheated on Claudio. And cheered when it was resolved happily ever after.

Mike complained about it all the way to the car. “We were forced to read this play in eighth grade and I hated it. I never knew it was funny.”

Eddie put his arm around his shoulder. “That is the unfortunate side effect of the education system. They suck the joy out of all of everything.”

“Normally I’m rolling my eyes at Eddie’s rants,” Robin said, “but I’m going to have to agree with him on this one. They just want sanitized versions of everything.”

Steve nodded. “Like what’s with the jump in American history when we stop in eighth grade at the Civil War and then all the way to WWII in eleventh grade, with only a brief mention of WWI as it related to WWII. Are they really trying to tell us that nothing happened in those eighty years of note? Like the fuck?”

Mike blinked at him. “Holy shit, I never even realized.”

The kids looked around at each other in shock.

“They push math and science,” Eddie continued, “but shit on everything else, except sports.”

He winced when realized what he had said. He looked over at Steve with an apology on his lips, but Steve was nodding.

“And they have to be the right sports, too,” Steve agreed. “Wrestling, swimming, soccer...anything outside the big three baseball, football, or basketball. Trust me, I got a lot of flack on being on the swim team. It was ‘gay’.”

“What?” Will squawked. “Why?”

Eddie licked his lips. “Little, teeny, tiny uniforms.” He emphasized the point holding his fingers not that far apart.

Dustin snorted. “Can’t be any worse than the basketball shorts.”

Steve looked upwards as he chewed on the bottom of his lip.

Dustin’s eyes bulged out of his head. “How much worse are we talking about here?”

“Speedo.”

Lucas frowned. “What the fuck is a Speedo?”

Eddie was practically vibrating in his skin. “Can I tell them, Stevie? Can I please?”

Steve let out a little sigh. The sigh the Party lovingly called his mom sigh. It was the sound he made when he knew no mater what he did it was going to end badly for him, so he just...let it happen.

He waved at Eddie to go ahead.

“Instead of swim trunks, that have a leg on them,” Eddie crowed, “Speedos are swim underpants. They cover the junk, the ass, and that’s it.”

“And you deliberately wore these things?” Max asked in interest. More interest than Lucas or any of the guys were comfortable with.

“I’m good at it,” Steve said, blush creeping up his ears and down his throat from the stain on his cheeks. “The uniform wasn’t as bad Eddie’s making it out to be.”

Gareth snorted. “Nope, they really are that bad. There was a period of time where–”

Eddie slammed his hand over Gareth’s mouth. “There’s no need to tell them about that, Gare.”

Steve looked over at Brian.

“Your senior year Eddie forced all of Hellfire to watch your meets.”

“Bri!” Eddie protested.

Steve looked over at Eddie and raised an eyebrow. “You like the...what was you it called it,” he said tapping his finger on his lips, “the ‘little, teeny, tiny’ uniform, Eds?”

Eddie threw his arms in the air. “I am but a gay man in a small town, so sue me!”

“I always preferred the lifeguard uniforms at the community pool,” Steve said. “Less wedgies.”

“Babe,” Eddie scoffed, “those shorts and tank left very little to the imagination. At least with the Speedo you knew what you were getting. With the lifeguard uniform it was all fantasy.”

Steve laughed. “I bet you were the kind who faked drowning to get CPR from their favorite lifeguard.”

“I can honestly say, I’ve never done that.”

“Yeah?” Steve asked all smiles. “Can you prove that?”

Eddie got up close to him and whispered, “Yeah, darlin’. I think I would have remembered you rescuing me before the Upside Down.” He winked at him and sauntered off. The rest of the band hastily said their goodbyes and hurried after their ride home.

Steve’s face was as red as his old life guard uniform. “Right. Let’s get home, yeah?”

Dustin eye’s narrowed at him for a moment. “Steve Harrington, are you crushing on my DM?”

The remaining eight looked at Dustin in shock.

“Dude!” Will hissed. “You can’t just ask that in public! What if someone overheard you?”

Dustin looked around and waved his hand around him. “There is literally no one here. I wouldn’t do that if I didn’t think it was a safe time to ask. But I’m going home with my mom as soon as she gets here and I will not be stymied.”

Steve ducked his head. “And if I did like boys, that would be okay with everyone?”

Everyone just looked around at each other and there was this collective shrug.

“Do you still like girls?” Max asked, genuinely curious.

Steve nodded shyly.

Lucas frowned. “You can like both?”

“Like David Bowie!” El said with her serene smile. “He likes both. Freddie Mercury from Queen, too.”

Steve snapped his fingers. “Exactly like that, El!”

Her smile grew.

“It’s okay if you like Eddie that way,” Mike said softly.

All the heads snapped to look at him.

He rolled his eyes. “Yes, okay. I have a lot to work on regarding the whole Lucas thing, but I’m not a complete ass.”

“Thank you,” El said and kissed his cheek. “You just have a lot growing up to do. We all do. We just need to give each other the chances to do so safely. Or at least that’s what Joyce keeps telling me.”

Steve gave her a hug. “Thanks, Supergirl.”

He looked out at all his friends. The people who were more his family then his own parents.

“I might have a small...” he raised his finger and thumb, “crush on a certain metalhead DM who recently joined the Party in March...”

Robin scoffed. “And by little he means huge!” She spread out her arms all the way out.

Dustin’s head snapped around to Steve. “If you two get together, he better treat you right. You deserve it.”

Steve blinked. Considering how Dustin had worded his original question, he had been sure that Dustin was going to him not to break Eddie’s heart.

He gave Dustin a hug and kissed the top of his head.

He really shouldn’t have doubted this kid.

Just then, Claudia pulled up in her station wagon and Dustin, El, Will and Mike all piled in after saying their goodbyes.

“He totally has the hots for you, by the way,” Max said dryly.

Steve blinked at her for a moment. “How do you know that? Does he spend all his days learning alt rock on his guitar or something for me?”

Max just blinked at him. “Huh. You aren’t as stupid as I thought.” And then she just started walking toward the car.

Steve scratched his cheek thoughtfully. “So to make sure I got this right, Max is saying Eddie has the hots for me because he’s been learning my favorite songs for me on his guitar?”

“That’s what it sounded like to me, man,” Lucas said with a half shrug.

“I’m with Lucas on this one,” Robin agreed. “So maybe you should do what I’ve been suggesting for the last three weeks and you know ASK HIM OUT!”

Lucas giggled.

“Shush you,” Steve admonished. “Get to the car.” He pointed at Robin. “You are spending the night with me to help plan out something cool.”

Robin saluted and Lucas just rolled his eyes and they all walked to the car to end another great night at the fair.

****

“Let’s play to your strengths,” Robin said, sitting cross-legged on Steve’s bed.

“Sports, sewing, and history,” Steve said, ticking them off on his fingers. “Fat lot of good that’s going to do me. It’s not as though I can whip out something overnight as a token of my affection.”

She rolled her eyes. “It doesn’t have to be something fancy. You could do something small. Like maybe use that fancy red thread you got at the weavers yesterday.”

He blushed. “I wouldn’t know where to start. Everything I know how to make is either winter stuff or something he’d never use.”

“He uses that handkerchief all the time,” Robin pointed out. “You could do something like that.”

Steve flopped dramatically on his back. “Not if he knew it was made from that fancy thread I got. He’d want to protect it.”

Robin had to give him that one. Because that would be an Eddie thing to do. And while the sentiment was sweet it would make Steve sad that he never used it.

Suddenly Steve sat up. “Oh!”

She blinked at him. “What’s ‘oh’?”

“He was telling me just last week,” he explained, “that the bag he used to hold all his dice for their game got a hole in it and it kept spilling the dice all over the inside of his backpack!”

Robin grinned. “Let’s pick out the best material to match that pretty thread.”

Steve nodded. “I just have to make a quick phone call to find out how big the bag should be and I can have this done in no time at all.”

He called Dustin and told him his idea. Dustin was ecstatic and told him everything he needed to know.

Robin and Steve then dug into his material stores and picked out a nice black felt and a satin red lining to make doubly sure Eddie wouldn’t lose the dice down the gaping maw that was his backpack.

He then showed Robin how to make patterns and cut them. Then he got to work.

Even with how easily Robin got bored, she watched the whole time with fascination. How he embroidered his pattern into what would be the front of the bag. How quickly and evenly Steve stitched the pieces of cloth together. He explained the process every step of the way and her eyes just lit up.

He turned the bag right side out and fitted it with silver draw string. He pulled it taut and held it up to Robin to see.

She reached out and gently took it from him. “That’s so cool. You do a bunch of these at work and send them to Katie as way to gauge reactions to your work, while you make bigger pieces.”

Steve licked his lips. “You really think these would sell?”

“And I think Eddie would be pleased as punch that he got the first official Harrington Pattern design.”

Steve took it back from her and smiled. “That would make it even more special, wouldn’t it?”

Robin grinned. “Yes, yes it would.”

He threw his arms around her. “You’re the best soulmate anyone could possibly ask for.”

She blushed but held him tight. “You too, Stevie.”

When Steve finally pulled back he tapped his finger on his lips. “Now what to make you.”

Robin squealed. “But you already made something awesome. The pirate costume was amazing, you don’t have to do more just because you made Eddie something.”

Steve rolled his eyes. “Yes, but I just tailored the clothes. I didn’t make them. I want to make you something.”

She scoffed. “Like the only thing I need are gloves for marching band. Since I have to have hand-me-downs, they are either too tight or way too big.”

His eyes lit up. “I’ve never made gloves before. That would be fun and interesting to try.”

“How would you even measure something like that?” Robin asked, a small amount of hope creeping into her voice.

Steve grinned. “Do you remember those ugly ass hand turkeys they made us draw in elementary school?”

“Yeah, so?”

“Just. Like. That.”

Her eyes went wide. “Wait are you serious?”

Steve just grinned.

****

Part 10 Part 11 Part 12 Part 13

I'm not 100% sure my history experience in school is universal in the US, but in order to bridge the gap you actually had to an elective history class called Twentieth Century. Like it was straight up bullshit. And before you ask, you can bet your ass I took that class. It was taught by my favorite teacher. Of course I took that class.

Tag List: @spectrum-spectre @estrellami-1 @microbiology @gregre369 ​@a-little-unsteddie @chaosgremlinmunson @messrs-weasley @chaoticlovingdreamer @maya-custodios-dionach @danili666 @goodolefashionedloverboi @val-from-lawrence @i-must-potato @carlyv @wonderland-girl143-blog @justforthedead89 @vecnuthy @irregular-child @bookbinderbitch @bookworm0690 @anne-bennett-cosplayer @yikes-a-bee @awkwardgravity1 @littlewildflowerkitten @genderless-spoon @cinnamon-mushroomabomination @dragonmama76 @scheodingers-muppet @ellietheasexylibrarian @thedragonsaunt @useless-nb-bisexual @thespaceantwhowrites @paintgonewrong @mogami13 @beelze-the-bubkiss @croatoan-like-its-hot @retro-vagabond @sani-86 @pansexuality-activated @y4r3luv @dauntlessdiva @vampire-eddie-brain-rot @lololol-1234 @nightmareglitter

[glisten-inthedark]

It’s very side-eye to me that things started going wonky with Mike and Eleven’s relationship after she started dressing more feminine, with the exception being season 1 when she wears the wig

In s1 she has the buzzcut and looks androgynous and is believed to be a boy by multiple characters, and then when she dresses up more “girly” it’s very doll-like and almost artificial. They later give her Mike’s jacket and she loses the wig and so it’s this interesting blend of feminine and masculine. The fact that Mike develops a crush on her here (if we’re going with bi Mike vs gay Mike) when there’s such a clear interplay of gender aesthetics happening is incredibly telling imo

In s2 when Mike sees her again she’s still dressed in a very androgynous way. It’s punk, her hair is slicked back, the clothes hide her figure, the makeup is dark and edgy and doesn’t pull either feminine or masculine. The only time we see Mike see her dressed in a feminine way is at the Snow Ball and that’s a whole other thing to unpack since he had asked her to go with him literally right before she “died” so there’s a lot of baggage there and a distinct desire to “fulfill” this promise and enjoy the night.

Season 3, Eleven has started looking distinctly feminine/“like a girl” in figure and with her hair now at her shoulders and styled more relaxed. But her clothes are masculine and oversized, hiding her figure. And it’s when her clothes are like this, masculine and baggy and hiding her feminine figure, that we see her and Mike kissing. Even in the final scene where they kiss, she’s back to wearing large flannels and duller colors and “Hopper-esque” clothes/hand-me-downs etc, a more masculine style, despite having gotten new clothes and working to find her style with Max. The brighter colors would contrast with the tone, and it’s likely they gave her a flannel in this scene so she can visually connect to Hopper as she reads his letter, but they could’ve blended the two styles together instead of having her revert so solidly back. It’s when she’s wearing these more masculine clothes that she kisses Mike again.

And in season 3, when she is finding a new style, one that is more vibrant and feminine, that’s when she breaks things off with Mike. It’s almost this visual representation of “Feminine Eleven = Not A Fit For Mike,” aka “I’m having to process and accept that my girlfriend is a girl and this is complicating things when it shouldn’t if I’m straight”

In season 4, it’s incredibly interesting because when they reunite, she’s wearing a flannel that looks like a hand-me-down from Will, but also a dress, and with duller colors. With all 3 of her outfits she wears a flannel, which to me evokes both Hop and Will. Her first outfit with Mike isn’t androgynous but it’s almost this struggle between masculine and feminine rather than a blend.

I feel like the most Truly Eleven outfit in season 4 is the one where she has both a flannel, a blue shirt, and a floral undershirt. (It actually reminds me of Meg Murry’s outfit in A Wrinkle in Tims.) The richer jewel-tone colors feel more El, especially s3 El, the floral bring in such a nice feminine touch, and the flannel being in richer, blue/red colors feels like an interplay between her s1 iconic outfit and her more vibrant and expressive s3 clothes.

Anyways imma stop here bc I need to take a nap before I go to class lmao

Hello! I hope you had/have a great nap time!

And honestly I have absolutely nothing to add on the subject.

All of your points are spot on! The more feminine El becomes, the less interest Mike shows on her and I wonder why? /s

I hope you have a good class and stay safe!

[isitisitearlymichael]

I think there’s a mentality in the Stranger Things fandom, or certainly outside of Byler spaces, that Byler is just another m/m ship.

What do I mean by “just another” m/m ship?

We all know there’s a long history of shipping male characters together when the show they were in clearly had no intentional romantic subplot.

M/m shipping has existed since the days of Star Trek - and it’s existed for many different reasons. But over time, it’s developed a bad reputation because fans of those ships were reading into things way too much and had so much hope that something might happen to those characters, only for them to end up incredibly upset and frustrated by the end.

There has also been a lot of accusations of fetishisation.

Some of this is also because especially in the early 2000s/ 2010s, these shows used to play on those hopes and have a lot of fun exploring “bromances”, where the writing would be intentionally stirring the pot, but not crossing the line enough for there to be any real plan to take things further.

What’s really important here is that Byler are NOT that kind of ship.

There would never be this much animosity if Will was Mike’s female best friend from childhood.

Yes, there would be a Byler vs. Milkvan war. That would never change - but the excuses as to why Byler have no possible chance of being together would be entirely different. Because yes, their arguments can currently include that Mike’s in a long term relationship, or that the 1980s environment would make it difficult for them to be together, but that’s about as realistic as the arguments have been.

Compare the circumstances to other canonical unrequited love stories

Take away all of the analysis about why Mike might be gay or Bi or even interested in Will in the first place, and just look at the plot in its bare bones state.

Will is canonically in love with Will, and Mike is canonically unaware of this and in a relationship with El.

There are SO MANY examples of this sort of love triangle in fiction, and most importantly there are more scenarios than there aren’t of this love becoming requited. It’s so normal for an audience to see a scenario like this and wonder if this is going to be one of those stories.

What’s happening instead is a lot of heteronormativity.

And that’s either down to the environment that Stranger Things fans find themselves in (people still live very unexposed lives) or they are just generally ignorant about anything that isn’t really in their face or what they want to see.

So there’s a heck of a lot of fans who didn’t even recognise that Will is gay, or just disregarded their assumptions and played up the “slow to grow up” narrative because they were more comfortable with that kind of story, or could relate to it more.

And so from their point of view, because they didn’t see anything, it couldn’t possibly exist. Bylers were seeing things and making them up. Now, after the Duffers and Noah confirmed things, they’re finding a lot of comfort in instead taking some of this fandoms bigger reaches (don’t mean to offend here, sorry) and using them as ammunition instead, e.g. Finn glancing at Noah’s lips for a millisecond during a take.

But the main point I’m getting at is that people who are dismissing Byler are not recognising that this is a traditional love triangle premise.

Now compare the canonical story to previous m/m ships

So because there are some similar activities happening in this fandom to what has been seen in those previous famous m/m ship fandoms, many Stranger Things fans are dismissing Byler as an imagined ship.

But how many of those old ships were able to boast about actual confirmed feelings, albeit one sided, with time left to explore things further?

There is absolutely no reason why the Byler ship resembles any of those “bromances” or queer baiting storylines in previous franchises and fiction.

This isn’t me saying that Byler will 100% become a couple

What I’m saying is that if nothing happens between them in season 5, that doesn’t undo the fact that Byler are a legitimate ship. It doesn’t undo the fact that Will’s feelings for Mike are canonical and that their storyline follows the premise of a traditional love triangle story.

There are people out there who are already trying to make Bylers feel stupid or ashamed for even exploring the potential of the ship, and all they’re doing is showing us how incredibly ignorant they are.

But that’s not to say that lessons can’t be learned from those previous m/m ship disasters

The one thing you should take from them is that people did get really attached, and so being let down by the show really hurt. It’s fine to speculate about Byler, but please don’t set your heart on them and let it break.

If we start to get legit info or confirmation that the ship won’t be requited, please don’t let yourself fall down the rabbit hole of conspiracy and set yourself up for disappointment.

But we have no legitimate reason to rule out Byler right now

The set up is there, the filming looks positive and the Duffers haven’t said anything to dispute the ship’s potential. Speculation is more than allowed - it’s normal and an inevitable result of season 4. So let’s have as much fun as we can and know that we’re doing nothing “deluded” or wrong.

[wakeupthemembersofbylernation]

Based on the way the story has been written, especially following season 4, I do believe mike is likely gay atp. But “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls” still makes sense as projection if Mike is bi because lots of closeted bi teens are confused about their feelings, especially in the 80s where terms like “bisexual” wouldn’t have been as readily accessible to kids from Hawkins, Indiana.

Simply the fact that Mike likes boys/Will could make him worried that he’s gay and cause him to hyperfixate on the concept of not liking girls more often, especially if his feelings for El were waning, or if his feelings for Will were overwhelming, even if he did in fact have a crush on El at the start of the show. Nothing says being a closeted bi teen like bouncing back and forth between “I can’t be gay, I like girls” and “Oh no, I like boys, am I gay?”

I think there’s a common misconception that the bi Mike view necessitates oversimplifying the story as “Mike used to be into El, and now he’s into Will.” That isn’t necessarily the case. A bi Mike reading can still involve internalized homophobia, projection, the heteronormative pressure to conform and date girls, repression, and most of the things we talk about here.

(I didn’t really wanna get involved in this, but I feel like this is important to add).

[will80sbyers]

I’m sorry but... why do you think mike is bi? I mean, look at him! he’s so gay

Is this a serious question? "He's so gay!" was funny though lmao 🤣 if it is... this is very summarized and you can go look in my pinned post if you want more, I made a whole power point about it when I was fixated in a unhinged way during the summer 🌞

actually I'll link it here ( keep in mind it's old so for some details I might have changed my mind but in general it should explain many things of how I'm reading Mike's character when I watch )

but anyway, there are multiple things in the show and outside of the show that make me think he's bi:

the storyline makes more sense to me with him being bi because of how he talks in the show about his relationship

I don't think he's lying about much on the show and I place his actions in context with his low self esteem and fear of things changing + confusion about his feelings for Will

the way the show is filmed takes his relationship with El seriously and frames them as romantic multiple times

in the script of season 2 the writers made it clear Mike had romantic feelings for El at that point

I think there's bi color coding and jokes in the script specifically for him

there are lots of parallels in the show with romantic couples and Byler and lots of the parallels are also with Milven which means Milven is a real romantic couple to me and I can't ignore that because if I ignore those parallels for Mlv then I can't take the parallels Byler has with romantic couples as romantic coding either, it would be a double standard to say one has a romantic meaning and the other doesn't

There are parallels between S1/2 Mike liking El on screen and Mike S4 starting to like Will which indicates to me that he had feelings for El too as he does for Will

The marketing takes Mlv seriously as a couple and did this for years selling stuff about them and I think the writers just deleting the relationship is not probable also because of that

The whole st*ncy - Mlv parallel doesn't make much sense to include if the reason Mike can't love El is because he's gay and not because they aren't compatible as a couple

And I think that's all (again, very summarized) ...

but in general all the posts about Mike being gay, while they are very interesting, didn't convince me because more often than not they don't fit with the general context around it- logically there's something in the show that doesn't make it make sense- although I keep this option always open because even if I think that in the end the writers could still do it!

In general as long as Will and Mike are together in the end I don't really care about what they decide to go with but for now to me it makes more sense that Mike had puppy love feelings for El when he was little and then he's now realizing Will is who he should be with ❤️

and also, I mean, look at him! He's so bi!

[pinkeoni]

Mike Wheeler and Audience Perception

(Or, Why Does Everybody Hate Mike?)

I want to stress right off the bat that this is not meant to be read as Mike hate AT ALL— this is a pro-Mike post I promise!! It just might take a lot of explaining on my end so bare with me.

I know that the general audience perception of Mike can be incredibly frustrating. Post vol. 2, and hell even during season 3, there's been a large amount of animosity towards Mike, because he isn't acting in accordance with the Mike that everyone fell in love with in seasons 1 and 2.

But here's the thing, the audience is supposed to dislike Mike.

Maybe I should clarify first, I'm not saying that the audience is supposed to dislike Mike FOREVER, but rather the audience is supposed to dislike Mike RIGHT NOW until season 5 airs and clears up a lot of his choices. And even if people do like Mike, which a lot of the smart ones do, then they are at least supposed to dislike his actions. Even the most hardcore Mike fans will admit that he has moments where he messes up, but understand the complex reasonings behind why he makes these mistakes.

I should clarify too that what I mean by "the smart ones" are the ones who see Byler as the likely outcome. Even regardless if you see Mike as gay or bi (I personally see him as gay, but that besides the current point) the only way to explain why Mike has been acting the way that he has is through his sexuality and feelings for Will, otherwise he really is being an asshole for no reason. Mike's true character is purposefully being withheld from the audience, so that they can make the reveal and it can completely recontextualize his character arc. Those that have it figured out (Bylers) are just ahead of where a typical audience member would be.

Let me put it this way:

GA that dislike Mike and MiIeven are watching the show correctly, even if they don't necessarily see Byler as an option yet.

Bylers that love Mike are one step ahead.

MiIevens that hate Mike see all the narrative information correctly, but are denying the truth.

MiIevens that love Mike are willfully changing what the narrative is presenting.

If Mike was truly acting exactly the way he was supposed to, then his actions would be more likable.

I've noticed that a ton of miIevens tend to dislike Mike. Not all, but a good number. They hate him because they believe exactly what they see on the surface level and that he's acting exactly the way he's supposed to. When Mike is ditching his friends and disregarding his interests in season 3, that's just Mike growing into his heterosexual self! Yes it's totally rude and out of character, but Mike is meant to be with El which means that he is doing exactly what he is supposed to do, right?

Is it possible to have this arc without Mike being unlikable? I mean, it’s not impossible, but it would be extremely difficult. The whole point is that Mike has not been acting like himself for the past two seasons, so it’s important to show that when he acts like this it is not a good thing, and this is not only proven through the audience’s perception but also through the characters perception in show. Mike gets called on his bullshit in universe by Will and Dustin! You are supposed to see that what he’s doing is strange!

Let me put it this way, if all of Mike's current actions were liked and supported by not only the audience AND the characters within the story— this would make the reveal that he hasn't been acting truthfully not work.

I’ll use a pretty robust example, let’s consider a character dynamic that, while not romantic, is widely loved by most audience members: Steve and Dustin.

Let’s say that in season 5, it’s revealed that Steve actually hates Dustin and doesn’t like being his friend. Not only would the audience strongly dislike that, but it wouldn’t match any of what was being shown in show. There’s no reason to believe that Steve doesn’t like Dustin, so that reveal would just feel cruel and cheap.

Let’s also say that Mike was actually a perfect boyfriend and friend for the past two seasons. He’s always able to say “I love you” to El. He isn’t possessive of her. He doesn’t ice out his friends (especially Will) just to be with her. He doesn’t try ti be someone he’s not. His actions are loved by the audience and the characters. And THEN it’s revealed that he’s gay and loves Will. Wouldn’t that feel off?

While Bylers may be used to being faced with intense homophobia from certain MiIevens and toxic fandom members, the typical GA member actually isn’t homophobic. Most GA don’t like MiIeven, but they’re indifferent to Byler because they don’t see it as a possibility quite yet because they don’t read into it as closely as we do. It’s not because they are media illiterate, it’s just because they watch the show casually. The general consensus that I actually saw from GA on twitter is that they actually wanted more of Will and Mike and were dissapointed with their lack of attention from the season.

The unfortunate thing about Mike and audience perception is that we have to wait for the payoff. There’s not really anything that can be done about that, it’s just how the television production cookie crumbles. I also don’t think that it’s a bad thing for Mike to have pronounced flaws, if anything it makes his character more interesting and dynamic. Some of my favorite characters in media are ones that are deeply flawed but have a redemption arc. Although, I guess this would be less of a redeption arc and more of a recontextualization arc? Either way, I’m excited for the audience to finally see Mike the way that they’re supposed to.

[it-one-line-at-a-time]

hi you gave the go ahead on sending you reddie asks so uhhhhh hi im here now

the losers club is one giant love heptogon. like poly qpr with romantic subsets

because everyone loved bev romantically and vice versa (cough cough sewer sex scene cough)

and richie loved eddie but he also had a crush on mike and definitely thought ben was hot (voiced this himself) and he has self worth issues and hides his insecurities with jokes (insecure hes bi so makes im-so-straight jokes, insecure hes ugly so makes im-so-hot-and-deffinatly-pull jokes) and even if hes stupid people love him because they KNOW why hes like that so thet play into it to make him feel better BECAUSE THEY LOVE HIMMMMM

and ben has always been just this little socially awkward idiot filled with love and definitely loved everyone in the losers club and hes emotional and i personally think hes arospec and feels unreasonable amounts of intense platonic love, to the point he mixes it up with romantic love (like me!!)

and mike definitely thinks hes not enough if he doesn't help people. he thinks if he doesn't help everyone around him hes useless and unloveable but at the same time only cares about the opinion of people hes deemed important (people that can hurt him and his friends) so of COURSE he helps his friends and hes the guy who keeps them safe (assuring they have weapons, making sure everyone is present and accounted for, ect) and everyone else loves him because hes there when they need protection and thats enough<33333333

and everyone loves bill to. how could you not hes just a stuttering dumbass little baby that need protected. plus he loves his friends for being there when he needed it (when georgie died, ect)

and eddie worrys about all his friends safety because they might be dumb and disease ridden assholes but there HIS dumb disease ridden assholes. and everyone loves eddie because hes like a weird overbearing jerk and he CARES. he CARES about there safety and no one else does.

and stan. he has some form of religous guilt. so when he found people that thought of him as stan and not stan the jewish kid he was over the moon. and everyone loves stan because even though he has his issues theyd NEVER leave him

sorry im just really fucking mentally ill and think my gay children need hugs and that my old man yaoi should have been allowed to be happy (reddie fix it fics save me. reddie fix it fics. save me reddie fix it fics)

Yikes, this got longer than I'd expected. Buckle in.

I read the sewer scene for the first time at school surrounded by my friends, and I think it was the one time I've read something that genuinely horrified me so much that I couldn't bring myself to be over-the-top scared of it to be funny. I have a younger brother who's turning eleven soon and the thought of it makes me wanna take a bath, if you know what I mean!!! Hm.

Also you are SO right about the Losers all loving each other. Yeah, there's the romantic pairings - Richie + Eddie, Bev + Bill (at least as kids) - but honestly they all love each other sooooo much it's kinda crazy. I'm kind of obsessed with how they conveyed how much they care for Richie in particular to the films - when he's crying after Eddie's death and they all hug him and he's like, 'Hm? They know I'm gay, and they still love me?', and he looks down at them genuinely confused for a moment - because it's so subtle but my God it's done so sweetly.

Speaking of sweet, HELL yeah Ben loved them all! My boy literally has love rolling off him like Sisyphus' boulder off the mountain. Whether it's platonic or romantic is personal opinion, but literally nobody can dispute that after Bill and Eddie (and Richie, in the film) took him into the Losers Club, he fucking adored them, man. Of course he loves Bev, that's kind of the most given thing to ever be given, but to be honest I think both he and Mike are the most symbolic of the Losers' love, because they were outsiders who found their family within the group.

Talking of Mike, he is the personification of 'the glue that holds the group together'. Literally, yes, when he calls them back to reunite after twenty-seven years, but you're right that it's in more subtle ways, too; the way he has the bolt-gun and ammunition, the way he is willing to sacrifice himself in the movie because he knows he messed up big time. And that last bit, too, is one of the biggest pieces of evidence in my opinion about your theory, dear asker who is definitely not a raccoon in disguise, that he feels inadequate if he doesn't actively protect the group. But they love him for it! <3

Ahhh, Billiam my boy. The one that every one of the Losers was genuinely a little bit in love with. The one who would not only readily die for any one of them, but who would die for a random kid with a skateboard who's only ever been rude to him! Of course in the book it is explored how much Georgie's death really affected him, of course it was, but that scene in Chapter 1 where he finds Georgie's raincoat and the Losers all just hug him without saying anything while he sobs is so fuckin' special, man. And that's the Losers Club, them all together, unconditional love and respect and love and love.

Eddie hiding how much he adores his friends under a mask of worry and ill-tempered arguments is genuinely such a lovely character trait. It doesn't take a genius to see that "You guys know that alleys are known for dirty needles that have AIDS, right? You guys do know that?" is a masked-up version of "Guys please don't go into that alley, I don't want you cutting yourself and getting this awful and scary disease going around". It's literally just him saying, in his own little way, I fucking love you guys, don't get hurt, and taking it upon himself to keep them all safe forever. Bill's "He'd be looking out for us... the way he always was." is in NO way lost on me, man.

One thing the book did that I thought was so so good and so so interesting was looking at religious guilt, through Patty, but it's not difficult to imagine that it extends to Stan, too. I swear there are some points - usually from characters like Henry Bowers' points of view - where Stan is kind of just, 'the Jewish one' (like how Richie is the loudmouth, and Ben is the fat one), so I reckon you're definitely right that when the Losers got to know him as Stanley Uris, rather than 'the Jewish kid', it was probably like a huge weight off his shoulders. And that's one of the reasons that he loves his disjointed little group, because they were the first to accept him and his religion as one.

Anyway, yes, the Losers love each other and they would die for each other and I would die for them please and thank you.

(Also, I agree that Reddie fix-it fics were put onto earth by God Themself.)

[cleradinel]

Genuine Q: how is the boys only sign a gay proof for Mike Wheeler and a sign that he isn’t bi? Isn’t he just saying “Boys Only” because they go into a men’s space? Like they weren’t gonna go into a women’s bathroom/locker room? And Lucas goes with them, so if that’s “gay Mike proof,” wouldn’t that make Lucas gay too? Saying “boys only” is not a gay thing either in general, lots of media has moments where straight male characters break off for “bro talk” or “just the guys” and it has nothing to do with their sexuality. Are guys not allowed to socialize with their gender without it being a queercoding clue? (Is it lesbian when girls go into the bathroom together?)

see i was debating the value of presenting my arguments because i truly don't know if you're up for civil discussing or not, but i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here.

dear anon. your first mistake here is watching and thinking of the show as one dimentional : aka, you think of mike as a person with free will figuring out how to go about trapping a dangerous murderous cunt inside a sauna. in a non meta way, in their world, it is absolutely what's happening, it's just mike stating "i figured something out, will, lucas, follow me." but a tv show is two dimentional : there is a meta layer to the dialogues, to the set design, to the character blocking etc. there are a lot of thoughts put into those decisions, and writers have a lot of fun figuring out how stuff something that on surface level is innocent and devoid of importance with double meaning. i'll give you one example, when will is encouraging el when she's called to do a presentation for class, you can read the word "HENRY" above his neck. in THEIR world, this is just a random name that happens to have been written on a piece of paper and stuck to the wall after discussing whatever henry dude will and el's curiculum asked the teachers of california to talk about. in OUR world, as people watching a tv show, the set design decision to place it here, the director's decision to have the cameraman do this specific shot and to place noah in this specific way is foreshadowing. it's a hint. it's a meta detail. it SHOULD mean something to you. another example ! jason telling lucas "you first hangover feels like you're going to split in two" is not about jason knowing he was quite literally going to end up split in two, he is just recounting his experience with his first hangover to lucas. to US, in a meta way, it's significant, because it was foreshadowing, it was a hint, it was MEANINGFUL. it wasn't a random choice of words from the writers that coincidentally ended up lining up with jason's death down the line. it was INTENTIONAL. jason as a person was not saying anything more than just "man hungovers are a real bitch lol", jason as a tv show character was quite literally telling us how he was going to meet his demise. another one : max in the school's bathroom. there is a graffiti on the wall with "i see you" and a little doodle of two blue eyes. in their world, whoever wrote this was obviously not doing this in vecna's name. it's a random person who randomly decided oto have some fun and graffiti this particular thing. in a meta way, this is referencing vecna. it's not a coincidence. especially considering this is a max scene and her arc is very closely linked to vecna this season. do you see where i'm going with this ? mike in hawkins indiana 1985, saying "i have an idea, boys only." is just letting lucas and will know that he figured out how to stop billy and that this plan requires going somewhere max and el can't follow. in their world, that's it ! but in our world, in the double meaning way (which is a very real thing, if you insinuate the stranger things dialogue, or most of cinema dialogues are "not that deep" you are quite literally insulting writers everywhere, like. straight up), in the "this is a character who's words are chosen by someone else with purpose" way, this particular phrasing is meaningful. he didn't say "i have a plan, follow me to the men's locker room guys". the writers chose a specific phrasing. it's even more obvious recontextualized : mike JUST fought with will, who told him his obsession with growing up was ruining them and the party. mike, affected by those words tries to figure out what that whole argument and his own reaction to it means to and for him. he has an idea to figure it out, and it is to let himself wander into "what if... i was..." territory as we do see in the second half of S3. (i would include screencaps but i can't be bothered rn)

mike's reaction at the end of s3 aka the conclusion of his S3 arc (in 3 parts : pushing dnd and queerness away because it's not socially acceptable -> why am i even doing this ? why am i acting like this -> right. i'm actually gay and terrified to be.) goes something like this : a scene flirting with will, followed by a scene of el kissing him and not reciprocating, followed by a scene that is shot in the same way a scene in which a character realizes something shows us the conclusion that mike has come to about himself : yes, he is gay. his own theory about himself actually being into boys was the correct theory. i think that answers the second part of your ask. someone choosing for mike to lay out his plans with this choice of words at this particular moment in the story is heavy queercoding. had it been dustin (random choice, he wasn't even there), whose narrative is simply not mike's, it would have been meaningless. it wouldn't even have been worded like that. in the case of mike, because it is mike and because of the nature of his storyline, it isn't.

[aemiron-main]

Genuine question: how am I supposed to reconcile mike actually being attracted to el in the story with their constant familial parallels? Like genuinely how? I’m really asking. Some bylers think bi mike is good and that’s great, but sometimes it just feels weird. And I don’t really know how I would feel if bi/unlabeled mike was canon because of it.

You’re not. You’re not supposed to reconcile it. Because Mike is gay and was never attracted to El. Those familial parallels are intentionally written into the story to demonstrate Mike’s lack of attraction to El (and also because Mike and El are very likely blood cousins in the Edward timeline, which you can read about here and here).

I completely agree with you and I also find it weird. This is one of the major reasons why I don’t like bi Mike and why I don’t think it’s accurate/canon. Those familial parallels didn’t just pop up out of nowhere/weren’t just added for funsies. I’m sorry but I can’t take “mike was attracted to el” truthers seriously when El asked if he would be her brother right before they kissed. It’s SUPPOSED to make you feel weird and uncomfortable and frankly I think it’s more weird when people AREN’T weirded out by it.

[sillygh0st]

Not sure if you still want any asks

But what are your favorite headcanons? I have seen some of your tazercraft headcanons, but I'm curious about other characters and such

Hi anon!!!! Time to share some of my headcanons ^-^

So for me bagi and Cellbit are both trans, gay and lesbian duo too(also both are ace for me), bagi is older + taller while Cellbit is younger and shorter. They are both also wild cats hybrids too! With tail, ears and fur being hided by their baggy clothes

Fit is gay and is like human but in the same time not 😭 he is a weird lil guy that sometimes dont look that human but also mainly he is just a tall muscular white bald guy having his 52 gay panic of the day lol

Felps has two forms, his "normal" one, where he has some slight transparent pink horns, and on his saint form the horns disapear and he gains a halo! I like to think that his "horns" are more like his ""energy""/saint powers and when he gets on his saint form it just return inside of him I dont know how to explain 😭 he is also pangender and pansexual!!

Pac is a half-god! But he is also a pac-man hybrid, so he needs to eat souls to survive!! But he dont have any god powers just his dna + he being constatly kidnapped canibalozed attacked is because he as a half god have some "aura" that makes others going crazy with him, wicth can end with people flirting with him or hurting him :') he is also gay and transmasc!!

Mike is a half creeper hybrid and half slime hybrid! But is more like 49% creeper, 1% slime and 50% human :') I like to think that some creepers on qsmp universe have feathers and lay eggs (basically weird birds) and mike is one of those :3 he has feathers on chest and arms areas, he didnt like them at first but with time he started to like and accept It! She is nb and aroace/bi (strict ace qnd almost stric aro!)

Also tazercraft got their mindlink after one accident on the og chume labs before qsmp!! They can read eachother mind and even swicht bodies!! Also they share one soul

Etoiles is a pac-man hybrid (just like pac) but also a cucumber hybrid! He also needs to eat souls and thats why he loves battles and killing mobs :) he is aroace and agender king!!

I have so many headcanons but I will just post here some of them lol

[mikesbasementbeets]

I disagree that bi mike wouldn’t make sense within the show’s canon. I strongly believe it would make MORE sense within the show’s canon for many different reasons, and that 99% of the evidence gay mike truthers try to twist to say explicitly confirms gay mike can coexist and be used to support bi mike without much adjusting. I think when you carefully analyze seasons 1 through 4 it’s pretty clear that mike had genuine romantic feelings for El at the beginning of the story. And there’s a lot of subtle things that support a bi mike reading. I think a significant portion of aggressive anti-bi mike theories are rooted in either biphobia, a misunderstanding of the nuances of what it means to be bi, or a desire to avoid having to accept mike’s early canon romantic feelings for El (enshrined into the scripts) cause that would mean accepting that it’s a love triangle. I think gay mike makes sense but it is in no way the only sound theory. And I’m not talking about headcanons, I’m talking about the text of the show

ok i know i said earlier i would respond to this in full but honestly there is WAY too much i could get into and this topic has been discussed to death at this point and i’m not interested in starting discourse again, so i’m really gonna try to be brief (spoiler alert, i failed). first of all, here’s my own gay mike analysis from months ago, back when i personally hadn’t seen any actual analysis about it yet and decided to just go through and analyze the show myself. many others have written much more thorough and articulate analyses, so i encourage anyone to seek those out if you’re really interested in developing an informed opinion about it. but if you’re already convinced one way or another, i’m probably not going to change any minds here, because this has all been said before.

the one thing i’m actually going to try to address here is the claim that mike was at some point genuinely romantically attracted to el, because as far as i can tell, that is the ONLY actual argument FOR bi mike. i haven’t seen anyone ever give evidence or try to argue that mike has shown attraction to any other specific woman or to women generally. if i’m wrong about that, please point me to that analysis (don’t tell me about bi flag colors around him though bc those three colors show up together everywhere in the show and are not specific to mike in any way, i don’t think that’s relevant “evidence”). also, i’m not looking at the scripts here, because i’m really only interested in ACTUAL CANON and the literal content of the show itself overrides any partial, text drafts of it, which is what scripts are. they are written for the specific purpose of filming the show and do not provide full and complete context (and what we are TOLD in this show does not always line up with what we are SHOWN).

just to be absolutely clear, i think that (disregarding the mountains of both textual and subtextual evidence of his LACK of attraction to women) mike having shown genuine romantic attraction to even one woman would be enough for him to be legitimately canonized as bisexual, but in all my understanding and analysis of the show, he has not.

from what i understand, bi mike truthers believe that mike had genuine romantic feelings for el in the earlier seasons that either faded over time or just never evolved past the initial childhood crush stage. i’ve addressed the latter idea before (in a post i can't find rn), but to sum up, crushes on people of a different gender, especially in youth, and during times when one is unsure of or figuring out one’s sexuality are COMMON among gay people. having a childhood crush is not the same thing as having genuine romantic feelings, and therefore is not valid evidence toward any particular sexuality. the insistence that it is concrete evidence of bisexuality is rooted in homophobia and a fundamental misunderstanding of the nuance of gay identity.

the first claim though, that he did have genuine romantic feelings in the beginning, but they faded over time, is what i’m going to focus on. i touched on this in my analysis linked above, but i’m going to try to explain again here. mike’s feelings for el have always been demonstrated with extreme consistency throughout the seasons. after their initial meeting and once mike learns to trust her, each time mike has been in a position to tell el how he feels about her, from season one all the way through to season four, he has behaved in the exact same way: he has struggled to put his feelings into words, refusing to outright claim romantic feeling or intent, and ultimately failed to communicate with el in a way she understands.

similarly, when faced with expressing romantic affection toward or about her, he has behaved with confusion, discomfort, and outright rejection of others’ assumptions of his romantic feelings. (read the analysis for more specifics on this)

each of these times is also rife with familial coding and parallels that subtextually explain WHY he is struggling to either voice or demonstrate romantic attraction. for just one specific example, in the first season, right before their first kiss, mike begins to excitedly describe the relationship that the two of them are about the have with each other (in not so many words) as one of a brother and sister. when el correctly infers this implication from his words, he grows confused, because he had been told previously by lucas, dustin, and even nancy, that his feelings for el were romantic. but he relents, and agrees that that is what his description meant. immediately after their first kiss, during which el is dressed in his sister's clothes, and which mike initiates when he can't find the words to express romantic attraction to her, his first word is.... "nancy." and later, when el is weak from killing the lab people who've been chasing them, mike repeats his earlier promise: that when all this is over, his family will become hers.

this is one thing that i genuinely can’t understand when it comes to the idea that mike ever truly liked el romantically. almost (if not) ALL of their interactions, especially in season one, have some sort of parallel to a familial relationship for one or both of them, on top of many of their interactions blatantly referencing the concept of the two of them being like family to one another. the absolute volume of these instances and the unyielding consistency of this pattern, again, beginning from the very first episode of season one and continuing all the way through season four, means that it is undoubtedly intentional. with that in mind, i cannot see any reading of their relationship that leaves room for genuine romantic feelings, when ALL of the subtext, FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, overwhelmingly presents them as family.

i’m not going to get way into the subject of compulsory heterosexuality because i could go on forever and i don’t want to, but the timeline of events in el and mike’s relationship arc makes it very clear that that's what’s happening. for el, her arc of independence is (not solely, but still) intrinsically tied to her relationship with mike. for mike, his struggle with his sexuality, specifically his lack of attraction to girls concurrent with his present attraction to boys (MOST presently Will), coincides directly with his relationship arc with el. i’m just going to link a couple of my screenshot posts where i've attempted to demonstrate this, bc i can't find it in me to explain all the nuances of comphet and the complex way these three characters' narratives have been intertwined (i'm bad at tagging so i can't find many, but here, here, here)

you might want to argue against my above points with scenes like the snowball dance, where he calls her beautiful and kisses her, or the make out scene in season three. but both the familial coding/parallels and the overarching themes of forced conformity (aka compulsory heterosexuality) associated with the snowball in my view completely changes the context behind the surface narrative of a “sweet romantic moment,” especially when you consider the coinciding narrative of mike’s relationship with will and the subtext of what that dance means for both of them. similarly, that make out scene, which can also be read as further evidence of mike’s discomfort with physical affection with el, as well as the overall arc of their entire season 3 relationship, is presented to be directly relevant to (specifically, in direct contrast with) mike’s evolving relationship with will, which IS genuinely romantic.

when i say that bi mike would be bad representation, this is what i mean. his “attraction” to el is consistently directly related to and contrasted with his relationship with will, coding his feelings for girls (most specifically the one girl for whom he has ever shown potential for romantic attraction) as lesser than his feelings for boys (specifically will, but ALSO OTHER MEN). bi rep that prioritizes and values attraction for one gender AT THE EXPENSE of attraction for another feels like an extremely problematic representation of bisexuality, if that's really what they are trying to portray. and this is not even getting into the countless subtextual clues that mike specifically DOES NOT LIKE GIRLS. (our son with a girl?, it’s not my fault you don’t like girls, el? sorry not interested, disgusted face next to “women in science,” blatant lack positive of response to “phoebe cates only hotter,” women’s room GET OUT, boys only, blatant and continued confusion over lucas and dustin’s attraction to max, "trying to solve the mystery of the female species" *LOUD BELCH* etc etc these are just off the dome and these are things that DO NOT WORK as queer coding if mike IS attracted to girls but VERY MUCH DO if he is gay. and there are SO MANY of them. more than that, if he is attracted to girls, then they are examples of the show consistently belittling that attraction, which again feels like a pretty shitty way to do bi representation)

god there’s so much more to this, but i can’t get into every little thing because it would take forever. literally there is SO MUCH evidence against it that i genuinely feel that the narrative would not make sense anymore if mike were revealed to be bi in season 5.

just to address a couple other things you said: i think the reason anti bi mike theory might sometimes come off as aggressive is because when one actually analyzes the entire content of the show, the evidence for specifically gay mike is OVERWHELMING and the claim that there is just as much evidence for bi mike remains unsupported, unsubstantiated, and at a certain point comes off as just willfully ignoring canon and even, at times, homophobic. i always see claims that some gay mike analysis is biphobic, and yet i have never seen any evidence of this. the claim that mike is not attracted to women, despite having been in a relationship with one, IS NOT biphobic. the claim that he is not bisexual, despite many people believing he is and wanting that representation, is NOT biphobic. the claim that his feelings for el have always been platonic and not romantic is NOT biphobic. it is an analytical conclusion based on the content of the show itself. i don’t doubt that some gay mike truthers have been biphobic, but i have not seen any actual gay mike ANALYSIS that is specifically biphobic (if you can provide concrete evidence, i will recant this, but i know that i and others have been careful not to resort to any sort of stereotyping or attempts at “analysis” that are rooted in biphobia). conversely, the claim that mike being in a romantic relationship with a woman and behaving romantically with her is PROOF that he is bisexual IS inherently rooted in homophobia and again, a misunderstanding of the nuance of what it means to be gay. i know (or assume, i guess) that most bi mike truthers aren’t outright thinking this way, and really believe mike’s romantic feelings to have been genuine, but as i and many others have tried to explain, when you do what the show is constantly telling you to do and look deeper than the surface level narrative, all of the canonical evidence from mike’s relationship with el actually explicitly and unambiguously points to the fact that his romantic interactions with her were NOT a result of genuine attraction, but rather a result of compulsory heterosexuality and a part of the natural process of figuring out his sexuality.

you also claim gay mike theorizing could come from "a desire to avoid having to accept mike’s early canon romantic feelings for El" but the fact is that it's not a desire for mike not to have had feelings for el (that assumption playing into the idea that gay mike truthers simply don't want him to be bi, hence the claims of biphobia) but what's actually happening is analysis that leads to the conclusion that he canonically did not have romantic feelings for el. the misconception is that gay mike truthers are simply projecting their own desires onto the text instead of what they're actually doing: critically analyzing it. i'd argue that bi mike truthers are the ones who want to avoid having to accept mike's lack of attraction to women, despite all of the evidence for it.

i've read a lot of analysis on here, from a lot of different perspectives, and i can truly say that every single comprehensive, good faith analysis of mike’s character i've ever seen has come to the same conclusion. he’s gay.

[daisyishedwig]

@cryscendo wanted to hear more about my Hevans AU so here are a couple of my favorite bullet points on my extensive outline.

Below a cut because I got too excited and it's long

Rocky Horror happens but like… what if Sam plays Frank and Kurt plays Rocky? Like they try to shoehorn kurt into frank and instead he says he might want to play rocky. 

Sam asks about playing frank n furter after Mike’s parents pull him from the show. It’s after he’s read through the script and now understand what the show is about and it’s definitely not because frank gets to fool around with rocky.

Sam is the one who sees Karofsky cornering kurt by his locker. No talking to shue or sue because they’re useless

Sam overhears finn refusing to help Kurt and goes off on him for it. 

Kurt being the one to fawn over Sam when he gets hurt in the fight with karofsky

Sam maybe offers to help Kurt teach finn and burt how to dance

That’s the first time Sam hears about karofsky threatening to kill kurt

Kurt and sam dance down the isle together, putting quinn and mercedes together

Same happens during just the way you are, kurt hands burt off to carole and he looks for mercedes but Sam appears to take over

Sam and Kurt get the duet for Sectionals 

"Kurt, I want you to look me in the eye, okay? And answer this question. If we lived in a world where noone cared about you being gay or me being bi and there was no reason to see us as anything other than two people who happen to be singing a love song… would you still be uncomfortable singing this song with me? Because I genuinely do not care what anyone thinks about it, I don't care if they think I'm gay, if they make fun of me, or any of that. But if you feel uncomfortable singing a love song with me for a reason other than protecting me, then I will drop it and we can sing something else. But I would love to sing this song with you."

Kurt being very uncomfortable during the sex ed lessons from miss holiday

Sam actively asking her for resources of queer sex

Kurt panicking and thinking Sam is asking for right now and not just because he wants to be prepared for the future so he can make kurt’s first time special if they get there

“I’m not ready for that”

“Oh, babe, I know. And that’s okay. I dont’ expect you to be ready today or tomorrow or even anytime soon. I just want to make sure I know what I’m doing, so that when or if we ever do have sex… I can make it special or you”

Okay, so why would the santana and karofsky thing happen in this? Would it just be because she wants to pull the jock vote? Is it just for the beard thing? How does she not turn the entire glee club against her? Did she still make him apologize to Kurt and the rest of the Glee club? How does Sam react to Santana dating Karofksy?

Oh, fuck it, none of that matters. Karofksy will just run with someone else, it’s just simpler that way.

Rachel could still ask Sam to go to prom with her “because obviously you can’t go with Kurt since you’re not out” You know, because she’s awful.

[starsarefire824]

heyyy, I will start reading demons of change now because it's seems really good I just have a quick question about it. Is Madwheeler a romantic ship here at some point or just a friendship though the fic? It's not going to make me not read it, I just want to know to prepare myself bc I see them like brother and sister and Mike as gay so it's really awkward to see them kissing or something LOL

anyway, I love your byler fics and I am sure I will love that one too!

Hey there love! Madwheeler in Demons is as I’ve tagged lol—-which is platonic with a disregard for boundaries!

So they are intimate in some ways but it is not in a way that is truly romantic! If that makes sense. I think if you start to understand Demons’ version of Mike it will be a natural fit for Madwheeler in this fic. But I do want to stress that it’s a Platonic Soulmates vibe for them and not traditionally romantic.

Let me know if you end up enjoying that! I really do love the Madwheeler dynamic, whether that be romantic or platonic…yet I know that isn’t everyone’s cup of tea! But I just hope that people give my fics a chance despite that. 🥰

As a side note…in Demon…Mike is unlabeled and I’ve sort of leaned into a Pan Identity for him in this fic, so as it is, I have taken some liberties with him in this AU, while still trying to stay true to his character. And I hope that makes sense!

I’ve generally had a really beautifully positive response to this version of Mike, and he is near and dear to my heart…and in turn his relationship with Max in this story is a very important dynamic! While remaining rather platonic. 😊

As a side note I am generally a bi Mike truther, so I do explore his sexuality in some different ways than the general fandom in fics. But! I hope that I write Mike and Will’s love well enough where even gay Mike truthers can find some beauty in their dynamic.

Hope this helps!! And drop me a line when and if you decide to read! I am curious of your thoughts, dear Anon!

[paladibun]

personal gay/bi mike ramblings & other late night thoughts //

Been thinking about how I relate way more to gay Mike as a bi dude rather than to bi Mike. (This isn’t whos interpretation is right or anything) I’ve seen the post that was like both gay byler would portray different experiences under one label and show that no label outright owns a specific experience. A bi Mike’s arc would be more about choices in relation to others with less introspection and a gay Mike’s arc would explain internal turmoil and self depreciation in relation to a queer identity and the need to hide it, which would require more of it . And ofc gay people don’t own this flavor of experience but in Mike’s case would explain his actions if under that lense for me personally. Also noticed the later headcanon is more prevalent for those with a bigger Mike bias than Will which is interesting.

Also thinking about what a mess or I guess how much ambiguity there is in both Will & Mike’s characterization when it comes to their relation to their sexualities which ultimately causes people to develop strong opinions and get angry when people get their arcs or dynamics wrong. The thing is that the Duffers like ambiguity - it gives them freedom and they also don’t like to state things outright when it comes to identities and very important sociopolitical issues while trying to be “realistic” /half-neg ( ex: Karen & Nancy talking about feminism without mentioning women, the way Robin’s coming out was handled without mentioning any gay words while the show is comfortable using homophobic words )

Anyway almost got heated on a completely separate topic.

It is sometimes confusing as to what is meant to be presented as a “Will Arc” and a “Mike Arc” On the one hand Will struggles from overt homophobia from others and from Lonnie growing up, on the other hand he has Joyce, Jonathan, Mike, and the party who adore him and while I doubt Will understands that they would accept him no matter what, there’s definitely an earlier self acceptance in his identity as a hyper-visible gay man(you can see it with the Turing Project & the bravery with the painting). I define internalized homophobia as “a set of complex contradicting behaviors based on society’s homophobia and heteronormative pressures” and some people define it as “being sad that people are being homophobic to someone” I think both Will and Mike have degrees of both and sometimes it’s hard to see how much of either both characters have. And for Mike, it solely depends on how you read his sexuality thus explaining his actions and feelings. Again, it is vague which I think is humanizing and realistic.

I won’t touch the dynamics topic until the tag evolves beyond late stage fandom spoon/fork binarization of gay relationships but just noting that aspect of byler isn’t void of complexity.

One last thought for the night:

Just looking at the fandom and noticing unfortunate patterns. Mainly the desire to be right above all else and largely at the expense of collective fun and creativity which is like the main point of fandom. I think it comes mostly from having to fight the GA and m*levens to prove we aren’t crazy (insert Joyce Byers gif here) a year ago and that mentality sticking for way too long. Like the desire to to defend your thoughts and feel your feelings strongly about a topic is amazing and is another big fandom driver but at some point people getting angry for fanon, headcanons, people having fun making things in a way that isn’t popular loud accounts approved is honestly concerning. I see it a lot from the side I agree with too and it’s like. We can do better right? Not everything needs to be activism tinged?

Anyway anyway thanks for reading this far I’m passing the whole fandom edibles as we collectively rewatch the source material and resetting our very “seeing red at posts we disagree with” adled brains. 💕

[will80sbyers]

i was reading your bi mike analysis and i have one question (not related to if he is or not lol i don't think it's that important) you mention you believe mike still thinks he likes el romantically dueing the monologue, and my question is, seeing as the popular interpretation of the s3 ending is mike realizing he likes will the way he thought he liked el, what is YOUR interpretation of the scene ? (i'm genuinely asking ♡ i think it's very cool we all have different interpretations of different scenes)

Hello!! 💜

First of all thank you for taking the time to read my analysis, I appreciate it a lot!! 😊

Here's a video with the scenes I'm talking about for reference!

At the moment my personal interpretation of the s3 finale is that Mike is terribly scared of losing the people he loves and here he's starting to realize how heartbroken he's feeling because both El and Will are moving and leaving him behind and he's terrified of their dynamic changing and of losing them both...

I think for the kiss and the I love you he's simply shocked

by the realization that El did hear what he said in the cabin and he's experiencing a sort of freezing response to that knowledge... because he wasn't anticipating her saying something like that to him!

I also think they were super awkward with each other because they didn't know where they stood in their relationship, they probably had not talked about it because they just... Don't talk about stuff often... I mean, they are 14 so I kinda get it because they are just kids playing at relationships and it is super awkward and overwhelming approaching these conversations when you're this young!

But still, even if they are awkward 14 yo it seems to me that in that scene Mike is feeling flustered because he does like her and wants to be cool in her eyes... but we can already see their relationships problems in s4 from that scene alone because Mike is acting like he is mentally telling himself he's an idiot after this thing he says to her and this particular exchange between them

So we can already see how he feels deeply insecure in this relationship because he thinks that to look cool to El and to impress her he has to be more cool than he is, he has to change his character and become super funny and dress better etc etc, he does want to impress her because he does like her and he feels inferior to her, he puts her on a pedestal...

The reason he pretends he doesn't remember what he said was because he didn't want to tell her anymore... because of what Mike told us in s4 himself, he was feeling scared that if he was open with his feelings this would have just made it more difficult for him and more painful when she eventually would look at him and look at who he is and realize he is just a nerd and he's nothing special and she shouldn't like him... Because in his mind it doesn't make sense that El really likes him or even that she loves him... That is why he's shocked!

...

In this scene I think the narrative was focusing on Mike and Will because it was starting out the byler plot line officially and showing us that Mike does feel differently towards Will, he feels more deeply for him.. and he will miss him more than how you miss someone that is only a friend...

...

This is not a realisation that he's gay or queer to me, this is utter heartbreak... It's like he wants to cry here but he's feeling so empty and numb that he can't even do that.

He's just wishing he could go back so that he doesn't lose him from his life...

this whole scene focusing on Mike and then Will in the car and then Mike again, is showing us Mike's deepest fear of things changing and him losing the people he loves... and how losing Will in particular is breaking him down... (because deep down he loves him)

I think this was showing us that Mike is beginning to feel different towards Will and he's afraid of things changing between them and in general...

That's why in s4 he tries to hard to go back to being best friends and why he wants to fix his relationship with El even if he knows it's not how it was before that summer and he started to realize he is changing and feeling weird towards Will...

He wants to stick to the status quo with Will as his best friend and El as his girlfriend...

but the dynamic is changing he is slowly realizing him and El don't work well in s4 and he wasn't sure of wanting to tell El the I love you, he was avoiding it because of the reason he told us... and that is the truth, but that's not the WHOLE truth deep down... even if him as a character right now is confused about what he feels and believes he is in love with her

The whole truth is that he wasn't sure anymore before Will made his speech in the van and made him believe El knows him like that and loves him like he wants her to love him, like she sees him as the heart of the group too and needs him like he feels he needs her... (A LIE BECAUSE THOSE ARE WILLS'S FEELINGS)

So he wasn't sure before that, he was confused and he was thinking about it in his mind and trying to just find the courage to tell her the ily but like he said:

"I just don't believe it."

He didn't believe it was safe to tell El and be vulnerable with her... Who made him believe it was? Will using his own feelings!

Also the rule for Mike in his head is that he shouldn't lie about things this much important... So if he doesn't feel 100% secure about a thing he WILL avoid it... Until he does feel secure

He also at the same time is feeling super weird and awkward with Will in s4 because he already has feelings for him and attraction to him but he doesn't realize it yet consciously why he feels like this... He is acting jealous and feeling weird things that make him look at Will when he's not looking and then panic in the desert lmao

Hope this is clear!! It's a mix of very deep and complicated feelings Mike has for both Will and El...

with El he does like her and he did have infatuation for her but the relationship just doesn't work because of his insecurities and because they are incompatible

with Will he is slowly beginning to realize he does have feelings for him but he's pushing back because he is terrified of change and it's super hard admitting to yourself that you do see your best friend in a different way and you like him in a non straight way especially in the 80s

But all of this is a tangled mess in Mike's head for now, he's not 100% aware of why he does what he does... He's thinking about it and learning new things about himself this season and he's 14 so it's super normal that he doesn't know how he feels for sure yet

Feelings are a mess and when you're bi I think it's even more difficult because he probably thinks well I do like women so I can't like Will like that because I'm not gay...

So yeah, that's it for me!!

Babygirl is confused 😂😂😂

Thank you so much for reading all of this, as always this is my interpretation of the show if you think differently that's ok!! 💞