#Mehmed IV

[beardedmrbean]

[ottomanladies]

Hello Once again😊🙏, I wanted to point out another similarity between Kösem and Turhan, I see that they have one other similarity between them, and I want your opinion on it, which is when Kösem ruled the state with the Grand Vizier the first 4 years of Ibrahim's reign the rule was stable and relatively good for the empire and the state but when Kemankes is executed, Ibrahim realizes that he is the sultan and his paranoia has begun , he leaves the consultation of his mother as if she does not exist, and indeed she becomes non-existent with her advice and wisdom for him to start the turmoil of the state and the fall of Ibrahim begins until he is deposed. The same thing with the son Mehmed IV in the presence of his mother who was helping him rule and run the state with the viziers four or five years after her death Mehmed IV was deposed He had bad decisions and somewhat worse management when her advice and wisdom disappeared.

Hi!

Yes, Ibrahim's and Mehmed IV's reigns were more stable when their mothers had influence over the government.

Kemankeş Kara Mustafa Pasha was executed on Ibrahim's orders, though, so his mental instability had already shown up. The Grand Vizier's execution symbolised the end of Ibrahim's "docility", if you will, because from this moment onwards he would completely discard his mother's advice.

Obviously Mehmed IV wasn't mentally ill but it's said that executing Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa Pasha for his failure during the Vienna siege was a grave mistake (and one that Turhan Hatice would have never allowed to happen).

[magnificentlyreused]

This silver and blue kaftan is first worn by Sultanzade Selim in the fourth episode of the second season of Magnificent Century: Kösem. It is worn again by Şehzade Mehmed (later Sultan Mehmed IV) in the twenty-ninth episode of the same season.

[chaos-of-the-abyss]

hm i wonder if the writers are trying to say something in having kosem insist that turhan will execute ibrahim's other sons, since the historical turhan is believed to have protected suleiman ii and ahmed ii from attempts on their life by her own son and his haseki emetullah rabia gülnuş sultan. guys am i giving these writers too much credit

[eloquentgifs]

Looking at the camera like they're in The Office 1.05 ~ Dżuma (The Plague)

Bonus: Simon is getting laid tonight

[historicalreusedcostumes]

This Black Costume is worn three times in Magnificent Century, First on Halit Ergenç as Sultan Süleyman in Season 1 Episode 10 (2011) and worn again on Gürbey Ileri as Sehzade Mehmed in Season 3 Episode 9 (2012) and worn again on Aras Bulut Iynemli as Sehzade Bayezid in Season 4 Episode 2 (2013) and is altered worn on Metin Akdülger as Sultan Murad 4 in Magnificent Century: Kösem Season 2 Episode 21 (2017)

[lemuseum]

[recycledmoviecostumes]

This blue and gray kaftan with gold embellishments was first worn by Umut Nalbantoğlu as Sultan Mehmed IV in the final episode of Muhteşem Yüzyıl: Kösem (Magnificent Century: Kösem) in 2017.

The kaftan appeared again in the twenty-sixth episode of the first season of Tozkoparan İskender on Yağız Kılınç as Sinan Karayaman in 2021.

It was also worn by Miraç Sözer as Şehzade Mehmed (later Sultan Mehmed II) in the second episode of the 2023 first season of Kızılelma: Bir Fetih Öyküsü (Golden Apple: The Grand Conquest).

Costume Credit: Anne81, Wardrobeoftime

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[ottomanladies]

No problem, it’s actually more comfortable to talk like this :)

What you say seems to make sense because Giustinian talks about Mustafa in past tense:

“Per ultimi sedevan nel Divano doi altri cognati del re, l’uno Chinan, l’altro Mustaffà. […] Mustaffà, fatto in Asia le medesime et peggiori estorsioni, ma convertite per la maggior parte in sé medesimo, provò con la perdita della testa il sdegno di Sua Maestà.”

He says that Mustafa was in the Divan but was sent to Anatolia, where he apparently extorted money from other people, kept it for himself, and “experienced His Majesty’s disdain with the loss of his head”.

This seems to confirm that he was a Damad until he was recently executed. Oztuna says he was executed in December 1628 but if von Hammer says there’s a dispatch dated December 1627, then… Also, Sicill-i Osmani (which is not a contemporary source, we must remember, but still…) says that Fatma married Kara Mustafa Pasha in 1625/26 and he was executed in 1626/27

I think Peirce mistook Kara Mustafa Pasha with Çanbuladzâde Mustafa Pasha, who was Fatma’s husband after Çatalcalı Hasan Pasha. Unfortunately, they were both called Mustafa lol.

About Çatalcalı Hasan Pasha, Sicill-i Osmani confirms the story that he was a servant of Haci Mustafa Ağa and that from 1615 to 1621 was kapıcıbaşı, that is the chief of palace gatekeepers. I guess that in this capacity he was able to find out that Osman II wanted to execute Mehmed.

About Kenan Pasha. Giustinian says he was sent to Greece (recently, I imagine) so maybe only the betrothal was formalised at the time (or some sort of proxy wedding)? I got the inspiration from Uluçay, who says that Ayşe binti Ahmed I was betrothed to Murtaza Pasha a month after Hafiz Ahmed Pasha’s death but he went to Istanbul for the wedding only three years later.

I think you’re right when you said Beyhan and Gevherhan were the only ones alive in 1672 because Fatma was most probably dead by then.

About Babadag, I would like to add (though it’s off-topic lol) that a daughter was born there to Mehmed IV and Gülbeyaz. Querini calls her Hatice and I called her Ayşe because I think he switched the princesses (Kuloğlu Musahip Mustafa Pasha married Hatice Sultan in 1675 and Kara Mustafa Pasha never became a Damad). I said, years ago, that Ayşe was Emetullah Rabia Gülnüş’ daughter but she clearly wasn’t because Querini clearly states that her mother is “Tulbeias” which, I realised only when I wrote my dissertation, was Gülbeyaz. So it’s true that Gülbeyaz was the mother of a princess, like Alderson said.

Unfortunately Turkish/Ottoman sources never mention an Ayşe Sultan binti Mehmed IV but Ragusian diplomats kept calling her “the Musahip’s wife” which is… strange… because (Kuloğlu) Musahip Mustafa Pasha was Hatice’s husband. Moreover, they never mention a Hatice Sultan, not even once. Did she have more names? What do you think? Is it just a simple mistake by foreigners who didn’t quite catch the difference between Ayşe and Hatice (keeping in mind a little Ayşe indeed existed and most probably died in childhood)? I would like to hear your opinion :D

Hi! Previously in Ottomanladies you answered an ask about marriages of Burnaz Atike, Gevherhan and little Atike. So, some historians confused Burnaz Atike with one of Ibrahim's daughters when they claim she married Musahib Cafer Pasha (d.1647) in 1630, as according to Giorgio Giustinian in 1627, Koca Kenan (d. 1652) was already married to Murad IV's sister (Pedani, p.596). And some historians say Gevherhan was the one who married Cafer in November 1646, like Sakaoglu.

And according to Joseph von Hammer, the youngest daughter of Ibrahim betrothed to Cafer was married to the other Kenan, Sari Kenan (d. 1659). But some historians separate the wives of these pashas as Gevherhan marrying Cafer and her sister Atike marrying Sari Kenan, with Atike going on to marry Ismail Pasha.

However, in "Dubrovacka akta i povelje", a report of 1650s refers to "Ghiusciahato sultana moglie di Chieman passa", so it seems to me she married Sari Kenan after Cafer died. And the "Mémoires du Sieur de la Croix" in 1670s, pages 368, 369, 370 and 371 says: "Les soeurs du Grand Seigneur (...) la premiere fut mariée à trois ans, & eftoit à dix avec fon second mary Affaki Mehemet Pasha, Gouverneur dAlep, il fuit étranglé fous pretexte de fauffe monnoye, & elle fe maria pour la troisiéme fois avec Ibrahim Pacha Tefterdar, du depuis Pacha du Kaire, dAlep, & enfin Capitan Pacha, aprés la mort duquel Jemblat Oglou Gouverneur du Kaire la épousée en quatriéme nopces. La seconde mariée auffi jeune que sa soeur, a eu cinq maris, dont le dernier la prit vierge, à cause dun défaut de nature (...) Je ne fcay pas le nom des deux premiers, le troisiéme fut Sinan Pacha, lequel estant Capitan Pacha, perdit la Bataille des Dardanelles (...) Le quetriéme eftoit Ismael Pacha, ce grand Seigneur l ayant choifi pour und es Lieutenans generaux de l armée dHongrie (...) Le cinquiéme sappelle Kassum Pacha, il est Chirurgien de profession"

The quote says Mehmed IV had 2 sisters in 1670s. The 1st married Haseki Cavuszade Mehmed Pasha, then Defterdar Ibrahim Pasha and then a Canpulatoglu (son of Kosems Fatma?). The other, younger than the first, was married to "Sinan" who was Kaptaniderya, so it should be Sari Kenan. After him she married Ismail Pasha and then Cerrah Kasim Pasha, and also had 2 husbands before the first.

(All in all, I believe the first sister who married Haseki Cavuszade could be Beyhan instead, as in 1653, according to "Dubrovacka akta i povelje" she is called "Behar sultana, moglie di passa di Cairo", and in 1563 this was Haseki Cavuszade Mehmed; but interestingly historians believe he was Gevherhans second husband instead...)

In "Per favore della Soltana", several lists give us marriages of Gevherhan. In 1648, she is called widow of Cafer, in 1662 she is wife of Ismail Pasha, and in 1670 she is called wife of Casciu Pascia who is probably Cerrah Kasim Pasha. And in 1676 and 1680, she is called wife of a Canpolatoglu and not another Sultana as Croix claimed.

Paul Rycaut in "The Present State of the Ottoman Empire" also says Gevherhan married Ismail Pasha (and then remarried to Gurcu Mehmed Pasha): "At this tenderness of age, Sultan Ibrahim, father of the present Grand Signior, married three of his daughters, one of which was called Gheaher Han Sultan, hath had already five husbands, and yet as is reported by the world, remains a virgin; the last husband deceased was Ishmael Pasha, who was slain in the passage of the River Raab; and is now again married to Guirgi Mehemet Pasha of Buda".

So it seems to me that Gevherhan married the following: Musahib Cafer in 1646, Sari Kenan in 1647, Ismail Pasha after him, then Gurcu Mehmed, then Cerrah Kasim Pasha, and then maybe a Canpulatoglu (unless that was the other sister like Croix claimed, maybe Beyhan?), before finally marrying Palabiyik Yusuf later in life.

But after all this, I want to ask whether its possible that this sister of Mehmed IV called Atike existed at all? Because it seems quite certain that Gevherhan married Kenan Pasha and Ismail Pasha, not one named Atike, and historians did make a confusion with Burnaz Atikes marriages. And if little Atike didnt exist, was Gevherhan the full-sister of Mehmed IV instead? I know Gevherhan is believed to be born in 1642, and with Mehmed and Fatma it gets too much for Turhan, but Hammer describes her as the youngest daughter in 1647, and if the sister who married Haseki Mehmed was Beyhan, and she was reportedly married for the first time to another at the age of 3 as Croix claims, and the sister who married Sari Kenan and the others was younger than her, then Beyhan could still be born in 1645 as she married Hezarpare in 1648, and Gevherhan was born after her...

Hi! Please be patient with me because these asks take time to unwrap and I’m only doing this in my free time.

I think you’re talking about this ask. About the confusion, it’s something that Uluçay too believes:

Alderson confused the daughters of Ahmed I, Murad IV and Sultan Ibrahim, so he made mistakes.

Alderson confused the daughters of Ibrahim with the daughters of Ahmed I and Mehmed IV, and therefore made some mistakes.

and he’s right because the rapid successions plus the practice of marrying princesses as children created so much confusion.

(it’s so funny that he says that twice lmao)

Okay, so your theory is that Atike Sultan binti Ibrahim doesn’t exist and that some historians seem to have mistaken Burnaz Atike with a daughter of Ibrahim? I hope I understood well.

Everything under the read more (it's very... heavy, sorry lol)

I read Giustiniani’s relazione and the math is not really mathing because he says Murad IV put his four brothers-in-law at the highest posts of government but then mentions five brothers-in-law:

Çatalcalı Haşan Pasha: he’s Fatma’s husband

Hafiz Ahmed Pasha: he’s Ayşe’s husband

Bayram Pasha: he’s Hanzade’s husband

(Recep Pasha: he’s Gevherhan’s husband) > Giustiniani only mentions her as Osman II's elder sister

“Chinan” who, you believe, was Koca Sofu Kenan Pasha

“Mustaffà” ?? who is he??

Sicill-i Osmani says that Kenan Pasha married Burnaz Atike in 1633-34, but Giustinian’s last dispatch from Istanbul was dated 4 July 1627 so… did he foresee the future? Were there more Kenan Pashas?

(Also, who is that Mustafa??)

Now, onto Ibrahim's daughters.

So, I made this table to semplify things because I was going insane with all the information.

I think there is some confusion between Haseki Mehmed Pasha, who was strangled in Aleppo in June 1661 (like de la Croix says), and Çavuşzade/Çavuşoğlu Mehmed Paşa, who lived until 1681. Sicill-i Osmani doesn’t call the latter “Haseki” but he’s identified as Gevherhan Sultan’s husband. Now, the princess who married Haseki Mehmed Pasha could have remarried after 1661, but the one who married Çavuşzade/Çavuşoğlu Mehmed had to wait until 1681.

Beyhan is admittedly a mistery because she was married for less then a year to Hezâr-pâre Ahmed Pasha when she was little but afterwards didn’t have a husband for 11 years? It seems strange. If the Ragusian diplomats called her “wife of the pasha of Cairo” and if Haseki Mehmed Pasha was beylerbey of Egypt in 1653 (as Oztuna confirms in Devletler ve Hanedanlar), then Haseki Mehmed Pasha was married to Beyhan binti Ibrahim. Unfortunately my only Ragusian sources come from the essay Per Favore Della Soltana, and in it there’s a gap between a letter dated 1648 and one dated 1662.

About the Canpulatoğlu Pasha, I would like to add that Canbulad-zâde Mustafa Paşa had two sons with Fatma: Sultânzâde Hüseyn Paşa, who was governor of Budin and of Egypt, and Sultânzâde Süleymân Bey. Both lived to adulthood. Moreover, he had a daughter from his previous marriage: Ayşe Hâtûn. Maybe he had other sons too. It is interesting, though, that de la Croix says Canpulatoğlu is Governor of Egypt, because Sultânzâde Hüseyn Paşa was indeed governor of Egypt at some point.

About Atike binti Ibrahim:

(Uluçay doesn't believe she existed)

As we can see, Oztuna and Sakaoğlu use the same source. Oztuna, though, says that Atike binti Ibrahim was buried in Ibrahim’s mausoleum, while Sakaoğlu says that her burial place is unknown. Curiously, Atike binti Ahmed I is buried in Ibrahim’s mausoleum too.

Since Alderson gave his sources, I went to check. This is a passage from Histoire de l’Empire Ottoman, volume 12, pp. 49-50:

L'ainée, Aïsché, fiancée dès l'age de trois ans à Ipschir-Pascha, épousa à dix Mohammed-Pascha, gouverneur de Haleb; ce dernier ayant été décapité comme faux monnoyeur, elle devint la femme du defterdar Ibrahim, gouverneur du Kaire, puis de Haleb, et alors kapitan-pascha; à sa mort, elle fut mariée à Djanbouladzadé, ancien gouverneur d’Ofen, qui depuis remplit les mêmes fonctions au Kaire. La seconde, nommée Aatika, épousa d'abord le vizir Kenaan-Pascha, puis le vizir Yousouf-Pascha, et en troisième lieu le kapitan Sinan-Pascha, qui avait perdu la bataille des Dardanelles contre les Vénitiens; elle eut pour quatrième époux Ismail-Pascha, grand-inquisiteur en Asie, qui fut tué à la bataille de Saint-Gotthardt; enfin elle contracta une cinquième union avec KasimPascha, l'un des pages de la chambre intérieure, et chirurgien de profession, qui, lors de la circoncision du sultan Mohammed , sut arrêter, au moyen d'une poudre astringente, une hémorrhagie qui avait fait tomber le prince-en défaillance, service que ce dernier récompensa plus tard en donnant à Kasim le gouvernement de Temeswar. […] le Sultan, en reconnaissance du sang qu'il lui avait conservé, refusa de répandre le sien, et, pour le sauver, lui donna la main de sa sœur, qu’un vice de conformation avait empêchée d'appartenir à ses premiers maris, et qui, après dix-neuf ans de mariage, entra vierge dans le harem de Kasim. Celui-ci la délivra de son infirmité au moyen d'ine opération qu’il pratiqua pendant le sommeil d'Aatika, assoupie par un narcotique. Ce fut ainsi qu'il acquit des titres puissans aux bonnes grâces de la princesse, comme précédemment il avait mérité la faveur particulière de Mohammed IV.

Doesn’t it kind of sound like de la Croix (below)? I think Hammer’s source is him.

"La premiere fut mariée à trois ans, & estoit à dix avec son second mary Assaki Mehemet Pasha, Gouverneur d’Alep, il fut étranglé sous pretexte de fausse monnoye, & elle se maria pour la troisiéme fois avec Ibrahim Pacha Tefterdar, du depuis Pacha du Kaire, d’Alep, & enfin Capitan Pacha, aprés la mort duquel Jemblat Oglou Gouverneur du Kaire l’a épousée en quatriéme nopces. La seconde mariée aussi jeune que sa soeur, a eu cinq maris, dont le dernier la prit vierge, à cause d’un défaut de nature (...) Je ne sçay pas le nom des deux premiers, le troisiéme fut Sinan Pacha, lequel estant Capitan Pacha, perdit la Bataille des Dardanelles (...) Le quetriéme estoit Ismael Pacha, ce grand Seigneur l’ayant choisi pour un des Lieutenans generaux de l’armée d’Hongrie (...) Le cinquiéme s’appelle Kassum Pacha, il est Chirurgien de profession”

Now, I think Hammer starts with a mistake because Ibsir Mustafa Pasha was one of Ayşe binti Ahmed I’s husbands. Also, it’s impossible to say where he found that Mehmed IV’s eldest sister was named Ayşe. After these mistakes, though, he repeats what de la Croix said: Haseki Mehmed Pasha, Defterdar Ibrahim Pasha, Canbuladzâde Pasha. The second sister is named Atike (so he says) and stayed a virgin until her last husband, Cerrah Kasim Pasha, operated on her to solve some kind of physical problem she had. This story is similar to the one reported by Rycaut, but he named her Gevherhan instead:

At this tenderness of Age, Sultan Ibrahim, Father of the present Grand Signior, married three of his Daughters; one of which called Gheaher Han Sultan, hath had already five Husbands, and yet, as is reported by the World, remains a Virgin; the last Husband deceased was Ishmael Pasha, who was slain in the passage of the River Raab; and is now again married to Gurgi Mahomet Pasha of Buda, a Man of 90 Years of Age, but rich and able to maintain the greatness of her Court, though not to comply with the youthfulness of her Bed, to which he is a stranger like the rest of her preceding Husbands. — p. 40.

It’s possible that Rycaut had already left the Ottoman Empire when this princess married Cerrah Kasim Pasha. He’s the only one talking about Gurci Mehmed Pasha, though… Interestingly, Sakaoğlu corrects Rycaut’s Gürcü into “(Çavuşzade, Haseki)” but, admittedly, his quote is quite different from Rycaut’s original. In Sakaoğlu’s it is said that the pasha is 30, while Rycaut says he’s 90. Moreover, as far as I know, Çavuşzade Mehmed Pasha was never governor of Buda.

In conclusion, I’m more confused than before lol

As for Mehmed IV’s full sister, I really have no opinion on this. Usually, it’s Beyhan who is given as Turhan Hatice’s daughter but with no hard evidence.

You (and other people) can send me asks on ottomanladies now, I have re-opened my ask box. As I have already said, please be patient with me because I don't have much free time and these things need to be analyzed properly :D

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Boza is an ancient fermented drink that is usually made from wheat, millet, barley, oats, or bulgur. The drink is believed to have originated in Turkey, more than 8000 years ago, but its varieties are found throughout Central Asia and the Balkans. Since it originally had a low alcohol content, boza was prohibited in the 17th century when Sultan Mehmed IV banned all alcoholic drinks. The modern version appeared in a non-alcoholic form sometime in the 19th century. In the past, boza was sold by street vendors, but this wintertime classic in now found in various establishments, including supermarkets. This thick, comforting drink is typically served chilled, dusted with cinnamon and topped with crunchy roasted chickpeas. src.: https://www.tasteatlas.com/boza

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Defeats Chu Hun [Peter Ho], Double World (2020) with 60.8% of the Vote

Westley [Cary Elwes], The Princess Bride (1987)

Defeats Sir Lancelot [Luc Simon], Lancelot du Lac (1974) with 78% of the Vote

[ottomanladies]

I wish to give an opinion of daughters of Ibrahim. There is a great abyys in lack of prooves to demarcate daughters of Ibrahim, Atike and Gevherhan. At times, I have an opinion that Atike existed, and at another times that she didn’t exist. For now, I favour the other theory, but i will talk one day about that topic more detailed.

Archiv für Kulturgeschichte Band 77 on page 65, that at the very end of reign of Sultan Ibrahim, Valide Sultan received 125 okka per month, daughters of Murad III named Hümaşah and Hatice received 7 okka per month, daughter of Murad III Fahri(han) received 10 okka per month, Kaya Sultan 16 okka per month, daughters of Ibrahim Gevherhan and Beyhan 30 okka per month and daughter of Ibrahim Fatma 50 okka per month.

Why would Gevherhan and Beyhan receive less stipend than Fatma, as Fatma was adopted and raised by Turhan? Btw, Fatma survived her husband, read Sakaoglu (actually, Ulucay proved it first). Also, in Acta et Diplomata Ragusina, Fatma is mentioned in 1658 document as widow of Fazli Pasha, nothing else is said unfortunately…

Anyway, I would claim that Ayşe Sultan binti Ibrahim really existed. See this quote from work The rise of the Köprülü family (p. 129):

For instance, when Prince Mustafa, the first son of Mehmed IV, was born in Edirne Palace in 1664, Ayşe Sultan, Gevherhan Sultan and Beyhan Sultan, sisters of Mehmed IV, were called to Edirne Palace from Topkapı to join in the celebration for the new prince. This summons shows that some members of the sultan’s family still resided in Topkapı Palace after 1663.

I consider her being the own sister of Mehmed IV. Kütükoğlu was only one right, he was married to Ibrahim’s Ayşe. Ahmed’s Ayşe really died in 1656, in document Vakfiler su defteri there is one document mentioning Ayşe Sultan died before 1660 (if I recall). Her last husband was Ibsir Mustafa Pasha. Sadly, Ibrahim’s Ayşe was wrongly confused also as Ibsir’s wife. Her one and only marriage was with Suleiman Pasha Malatuk (Ermeni). Alderson confused her with Murad IV’s daughter.

In work Atik şikâyet defteri (7 numaralı H.1081-1083/ M.1671-1672) transkripsiyon, Mehmed IV wrote several letters in 1671/72 to his sisters Ayşe and Gevherhan, and their husbands. He doesn’t refer them as hemşirem, but it’s them.

Anyway, in work OSMANLI DEVLETİ’NİN 1660-1661 (HİCRİ 1070-1071) TARİHLİ SEFER BÜTÇESİ  (pp. 23-24), there were provided annual payments of some Ottoman princesses in 1661. This payment list does not refer to all of the Sultanas who were knowly alive in 1661, as Ahmed’s daughter Fatma Sultan for example. Only some of them.:

Hâshâ-i hazret-i Valide Sultan 12.000.000

Hâshâ-i paşmaklık-ı Ayşe Sultan 2.595.333

 Hâshâ-i paşmaklık-ı Fatıma Sultan 2.005.000

 Hâshâ-i paşmaklık-ı Rukiyye Sultan 1.235.000

Hâshâ-i paşmaklık-ı Safiye Sultan 1.005.000

Hâshâ-i paşmaklık-ı Beyhan Sultan 1.560.000 24

Hâshâ-i paşmaklık-ı Gevherhan Sultan 1.520.000

Hâshâ-i Ayşe sultan haseki-i merhum Gazi Sultan Murad Han aleyhi’r-rahmeti ve’l-gufran 100.000

Hâshâ-i paşmaklık-ı Ümmi Sultan 295.000

Hâshâ-i paşmaklık-ı Sâime Sultan 285.000

Hâshâ-i temlik-i merhum Kaya Sultan 1.250.000

See how Mehmed’s cousins (Murad IV’s daughters) and sisters (especially) received high payments, in difference to his aunt Ümmi Sultan and his great-great-aunt Saime Sultan. But, you would notice his sisters Ayşe and Fatma received the highest salaries; Ayşe the very highest as own sister, Fatma little lesser as adopted sister.

Sorry for the long wait, I have been incredibly busy these past few months.

About Ayşe binti Ibrahim, I would refer to this post, in which @rhaenahanzades found that the one married to Ermeni/Malatyalı Süleyman Pasha was Ayşe binti Ahmed I. I’ll paste the citation again, here:

“Soliman passa, Visir della Porta. Ritrouai anche alla Corte per Visir della Porta il Sr Soliman passa, stato un tempo Visir Supremo, dal quale fui all'udienza e lo presentai secondo le comissioni, il quale nell'honorarmi e trattarmi bene non uolse mostrarsi meno cortese degl'altri, offerendosi con molta humanità per ogni occorenza de publici seruitii. Questo Sr è assai noto all'EE. VV. per rellationi di diuersi loro ambassadori, onde a me non occorre tediarle in detto proposito. Dirò solo questo, che non le uol male e che sia personaggio da potterle fauorire, essendo ben uoluto da S. Mtà, col quale è ancor congiunto col uincolo di parentella, mentre la sua zia Aisce sultana tiene per moglie.” (“Dubrovačka akta i povelje” vol. 3, pages 661 and 662)

I believe Ayşe binti Ibrahim died pretty young and therefore never entered the Ragusian ambassadors’ lists of gifts.

As for Fatma binti Ibrahim, I must have missed when it was decided that she had been adopted by Turhan because I have never heard of this.

About the list of payments you’ve found, I’m not sure those princesses are identified correctly:

I have identified them based on seniority and the amount of money, which seems to me to be what their lands yield. I don’t think these are stipends.

Anyway, if we put the princesses in order of amount of money, I think it’d be easier to understand who is who:

Ayşe and Fatma stand at the top of the hierarchy because a) they’re older and b) they must have amassed a great amount of land during their lives. After them we have the sisters of the reigning sultan (Mehmed IV), so Beyhan and Gevherhan (possibly in order of birth??); then we have Murad IV’s daughters (Kaya is mentioned as deceased because she was at the time), and lastly we have two minor princesses: Saime, a daughter of Murad III and a non-haseki concubine, and Ümmi, either a daughter of Ahmed I or of Murad III as well. I say this because I think their small amount of land means they were not daughters of Haseki Sultans: if Ümmi is Ayşe and Fatma’s sister that’s the only reason she would possess less land than them.

[magnificentlyreused]

This red and golden kaftan was first worn by Sultan Mehmed IV in the thirtieth and final episode of the second season of Magnificent Century: Kösem.

It appeared again on an unnamed Enderûn student in the seventh episode of the first season of Golden Apple: The Grand Conquest.

[zsakuva]

hi hi hello,EAD stundent here (basically a history nerd)

In Dontis' P4, he mentions a person special for him, from 13:18 to 17:00 someting? I dont knoe. So Ive got a quote from that vid and a little bit of an argument i wanted to point out.

"All she wanted from me, was company. Her  sons and Husband bled for the Turkish empire and on her mission to find life again, she heard of creatures who could control emotions; itas(?) memories." (13:08-14:??)

The part that I couldnt't really understand after watching that video was: When or in what century did Dontis meet this person?(1) My  reason for asking this, is that the expression "Turkish Empire" you use is not actually correct. Well,its not entirely wrong either, but hear me out:

Back then, the name "Turk" was used as the name of the nationality( you can check the first ever usage of it on  the website tdkbelletengov, or ttk (also gov))(or simply search Orkhon inscriptions) .And the countries founded by the Turks were not called "Turkish Empire(s)".

("Turkey"/"turkish" isnt an empire, it's a republic, and the empires owned by the Turks are empires such as the Seljuks or the Ottomans).

It isn't well understood because Dontis did not give any info about the date or his age at that time. But, personally, it may be that the person lost her husband and sons in the war, between the period of Ottomans rising and declining, in the 1600s and later. (probably after mehmed the III.)

Okay, besidesthisnerdy ass paragraph there are two other questions:

2) Was there a specific reason behind creating the identity of the person who would have such an impact on Dontis? Or did it just come to your mind?

3)Also, how do you think Dontis might have met this person? I mean why was he in (probably?) in the anatolian region?

Thbaks for bearing with me and my questions habe a good day !!

I remember researching into what certain regions of the world would've called it at the time of their meeting, also depending on the side they were fighting for, and I think I found that some did call it the Turkish Empire at the time. I can't find the source anymore, but if that wasn't the case, then my bad haha

For his character development. He's lived a long life and he's met some interesting people

No idea

[reallifesultanas]

Lets talk about Ümmügülsüm Sultan

There is a chance, that Kösem and Ahmed had another daughter together: Ümmügülsüm.

I am so glad, that with Anonymous sender and Ottomanladies, the truth came to light. Ottomanladies answered very long and very detailed about Ümmügülsüm, she shared her thoughts about the topic, now, here, you can find a conclusion from me:

What we know:

A privy purse register from 1622 gives the names of five unmarried princesses, who may be daughters of Ahmed, Osman II, and even Mehmed III: Umm-i Külsum(=Ümmügülsüm), Hanzade, Halime, Fatma, and Akile. Hanzade and Fatma were Kösem's daughters; Akile is possibly mistaken for Atike or Abide; Halime might be Mehmed III's daughter, named after her mother, Halime. But Ümmügülsüm was less clear.

The relazione of Angelo Alessandri from 1637 says that Murad IV had four FULL-sisters. We know three of them: Ayse, Fatma, and Hanzade. But who could be the fourth? Gevherhan was already dead, Atike was well-knownly not a full-sister and also not Abide. Maybe Ümmügülsüm?

There are some decisions and letters of Murad IV, where he mentions Ümmügülsüm as a sister of his. He uses the same wording that he used for Ayse, who undoubtedly was his full-sister, suggesting Ümmügülsüm was also a full-sister of his.

The 1638/39 harem registers mention one Ümmügülsüm Sultan who received the highest payments besides the three already known daughters of Kösem (Ayse, Fatma, Hanzade) and two daughters of Murad III. This means she could be either the daughter of Murad III or Ahmed I. But since Ahmed I's other daughter, Atike - who was not Kösem's - got a lesser stipend, if Ümmügülsüm is Ahmed I's daughter, she had to be Kösem's daughter too and so she is the fourth full-sister of Sultan Murad IV.

In 1648 the Raguzan envoy also mentions her (possibly her as they use the name Iumi), as the wife of Ahmed Pasha, governor of Herzegovina. They probably married ~1642 until the pasha's death in 1648. This was her second marriage, her first husband was one Halil Pasha, with whom she married before 1638.

In book ''Whisper of the cities'' one Ümmühan Sultan is mentioned as she met with the English ambassador's wife. Based on her, Ümmühan was said to be the aunt of deposed Mehmed IV and sister of Ibrahim I. This happened in 1690, so she still was alive then.

There are still questions:

Why no historian ever discovered this information as none of the evidence is new?

Why Ümmi is not mentioned among Ahmed I's children?

Where is she buried? *

When was she born? *

Why Ibrahim did not force her to serve Telli Hümasah (his wife) when he did it to all of the other daughters of Kösem?

To be honest the burial place of Ahmed I is quite a mess. For example there are two sarcofagies for 'Zeynep' daughters of Ahmed I. One of the sarcofagies stands for an adult woman. There was no daughter of Ahmed, called Zeynep who reached adulthood. So maybe the name is mistaken and that Ümmügülsüm. Maybe she was buried somewhere else as she lived a quite long life, survivin everyone around her and her grave is not idetified yet.

Considering the known children of Kösem and their birth date, the most possible for Ümmügülsüm is that she was born during the late reign of Ahmed I. In 1605 Kösem gave birth to Mehmed; in 1606 or 1607 to Ayse; then in 1607 or 1608 to Fatma; in 1609 to Hanzade. While I see that there is a gap here for one more child (if Kösem got pregnant extremely rapidly), she cannot be older than Fatma, as she was also not married off in 1622 yet, and also since we know quite precisely the sequence of these daughters, I do not think another one was born here but no one knows about her. It would be strange. Then in 1612, she gave birth to Murad, but between him and Hanzade there was time for another child - let it be Selim who was born in 1611 or Ümmügülsüm. Then Kasim followed Murad quite quickly, he was born in 1614, and then Ibrahim came in 1615, so there was no time for anyone else between Murad and Ibrahim. After 1615 there is another chance for the birth of Ümmügülsüm. So she either was born after Hanzade (~1611), or after Ibrahim (~1616). Either way - considering she was not just still alive in 1690, but was surely not suffering, dying since she was involved in the diplomacy meeting - she possibly died in the 1690s, she very probably reached 80 maybe even more in the end.