#Lokiverse reference

[blindtaleteller]

Additions to that below but yes!

Further explaining #8 in particular: 'care' includes cleanliness, clutter or organization. That can tell a lot about the character in particular too. Are they messy, clean, or something in between (like for instance: the sort that say; will leave their clothes abandoned on the floor on the way to crashing into bed, but pick them up immediately in the morning/when ever they wake up.

Anyway, additions would be;

11. How do they sleep/what is their sleep schedule. (Is it regular, do they have insomnia at any level [insomnia does vary from case to case,] night terrors, do they sleep better during the day or night, is there a specific way or position they have to sleep, with music, or in a specific position for their comfort, if they have a prosthetic or other disability that can affect this too.)

12. Do they have a job, multiple jobs; or none at all: and how that affects their life and daily routine. (Do they work nights, mornings, mid shifts? Part time, multiple jobs? Are they content with that job or employment, settling for it, or making an attempt to get away from it; answering these can give a better view of their outlook as well as better defining where their interests and goals lie.)

13. How do they behave when introduced to new people/things. (This can be a big one, regardless of what or who they're reacting to. Context is important in this one too though, when it comes to people in particular: as how another character comes at them can and should affect the answer to some extent.)

14. What are 5-10 things the character absolutely won't or would refuse to do, and why. (This one tends to explain itself; it sets multiple character boundaries and sets down the reasoning for them pretty cleanly. Honestly I recommend this as #1 if you're writing. A lot of the rest can fall better into place once those boundaries [or lack of them] are set.)

So my problem with most ‘get to know your character’ questioneers is that they’re full of questions that just aren’t that important (what color eyes do they have) too hard to answer right away (what is their greatest fear) or are just impossible to answer (what is their favorite movie.)  Like no one has one single favorite movie. And even if they do the answer changes.

If I’m doing this exercise, I want 7-10 questions to get the character feeling real in my head. So I thought I’d share the ones that get me (and my students) good results: 

What is the character’s go-to drink order? (this one gets into how do they like to be publicly perceived, because there is always some level of theatricality to ordering drinks at a bar/resturant)

What is their grooming routine? (how do they treat themselves in private)

What was their most expensive purchase/where does their disposable income go? (Gets you thinking about socio-economic class, values, and how they spend their leisure time)

Do they have any scars or tattoos? (good way to get into literal backstory) 

What was the last time they cried, and under what circumstances? (Good way to get some *emotional* backstory in.) 

Are they an oldest, middle, youngest or only child? (This one might be a me thing, because I LOVE writing/reading about family dynamics, but knowing what kinds of things were ‘normal’ for them growing up is important.)

Describe the shoes they’re wearing. (This is a big catch all, gets into money, taste, practicality, level of wear, level of repair, literally what kind of shoes they require to live their life.)

Describe the place where they sleep. (ie what does their safe space look like. How much (or how little) care / decoration / personal touch goes into it.)

What is their favorite holiday? (How do they relate to their culture/outside world. Also fun is least favorite holiday.) 

What objects do they always carry around with them? (What do they need for their normal, day-to-day routine? What does ‘normal’ even look like for them.) 

[blindtaleteller]

thank you for previous explain. It was so long and detailed. I had now another question. About lady's life in Asgard. Sigyn x Loki for me. And Sigyn is not warrior, but typical lady. Can you write something about it?

Honestly if you're looking for an example of that in canon MCU, much of Frigga's character and especially her surroundings as expressed on screen does have quite a few examples.

In fact, we aren't even given the idea she can still fight until she absolutely has to in The Dark World.

And, it's in Dark World (and a little of both Ragnarok [geh] and Endgame if you take both the premise of the Valkyries and the time travel scenes in it seriously) that we are given those examples.

Remember, whether they are fighters themselves or not: if they're Asgardian, they're still raised as a part of that previously mentioned warmongering imperialist society: and that would be (as also told to us in their dialogue about Jane and Sif, and their King Odin's expectations) even more strictly observed by someone like a lady in that kind of royalist/imperialist hierarchy, rather than a warrior.

That is why I say 'much' of Frigga's character and surroundings.. but not all. It's not the fighting you need to look at, though that can help. It's her mannerisms, her rooms (look at TDW including the fight with Malekith), her maids, and more. Frigga is, as Queen and even without the fight or ability itself: the top and more importantly leading example of what to expect of a lady of the royal court: as she should be in that kin of society.

And that's also VERY probably why she doesn't fight in any of THor 2011 on screen: even when Laufey shows up, regardless of her being nearer to the main palace then, than she was in TDW: where she was shown being in a separate side palace at least a few miles away when Algrim/Kurse broke out of the dungeon: all the way up until her life, and Jane's, are in immediate danger after having left that portion of the palace during the attack that Kurse opened the shields to manage.

(Which side note was REEEEALLY questionable at the time with a human housing an infinity stone in tow at the time, but is neither here nor there with other things taken into account... just a very dangerous for Jane choice, given what enemies they did have even without the elves being taken into account.. but eh, it is canon and it does fit the flavors of Asgard's, Odin's, and Frigga's own arrogance and ignorance in regards to Asgard's 'impervious' mindset state, as far as the upper echelons of their society seems to be concerned as portrayed on screen.)

In a way, it's made pretty clear that while Frigga still retains much of her skills as a fighter and mage/witch (Or the daughter of three witches at least as we also now know through canon dialogue:) the things she does and doesn't do, while also comparing that to someone like Brunhilde (aka Valkyrie) and how they were clearly recieved during and well after their term as an active female-only fighting force, the canon makes it pretty clear that unless they do retain that fighter status, women (perhaps including the queen) either do not tend to hold as much sway or dignity in other pursuits outside the household.

In other words and as an canon example.. even as the other ruler on the throne and his adoptive mother; Frigga is easily able to set aside the throne and any responsibility for doing so even in that situation. Regardless of, the fact that; at that point the situation is that Jotunheim had declared war in response to Thor's treasonous invasion, and regardless of being closest to Loki (we know this through the words of every character in the family: Thor says it repeatedly, Odin goads and attempts to guilt trip him with that close relationship too, and Frigga does the same with her own wierdness during her conversation with him in TDW's dungeon cell scene) knowing full well not only what she was asking of Loki, but also what Loki was going through in having just recently discovered that he wasn't only not of the same species: but on top of that was Laufey's biological son AND Jotunheim's only known of prince. Whom, Odin admitted he had taken to 'forge a permanent peace.'

A peace that, probably wouldn't have happened anyway if he and it had been handled just as poorly as well, it was.

Think about that for a little bit; really think about it: and the fact that she did so, while playing the part and claiming she was closest to him and cared about him the most.

That canonically casts some seriously gross and awkward truths into the realm of how their their relationship actually is versus how Frigga and the rest of them tried to paint it. As well as touching her own guilt evasion there too: and is something that both in the first Thor and the second film both: Frigga absolutely side steps taking any responsibility for, as the mother, the mentor, and the lady who raised him with that lie: regardless of their supposed closeness.

And, why that's important? Is because, under that king, husband and society as it goes: she is not just allowed to do that without complaint from any of the above, their society OR the foster-brother that she raised and lied to right next to him: she's allowed to thrive and remain in her position STILL without that question or any apparent explanation of ANY of those nuances or her part in putting him in charge in taht mental and emotional state; well after the fact and into 2013 two years later.

When she refers to that massive erasure of not just who but WHAT he is? Frigga almost always shifts that blame fully onto Odin in her dialogue; and steers as hard as she can away from words reminding the viewer that, she was Odin's wife and partner: through all of that. Instead, it's always 'your father' or 'he' rather than 'we' or 'he and I.'

Which is very blatantly another portion of Loki's response in this same scene when asked 'And am I not your mother..?' because, he's right in every form of the answer.

It's -possible- that she was being honest about her relationship with Loki, at least later on? But it's -not- very -probable-, or believable at that stage.. and her lack of self awareness and ownership of her part even when alone with him in Thor 2011 (not to mention carrying that on a year later in Dark World) makes that very hard to miss as a thing in truth: especially with the given facts being that this went on for over a thousand years.. and still over all that time she didn't have enough regard, respect, or love for her supposed favorite son, to even hint at any of his origins even after she taught him to shapeshift or cast illusions herself, to change the outcome.

And again.. no one raised a question as to why. Or held her accountable. No one questioned the one person in the royal family who was capable of taking Loki's place on the throne back in 2011 either.

Given how little we see women in honored fighting positions in Asgardian culture, and are given the very blatant information between the films that it's been literal centuries since even since a female fighting force has been a thing, PLUS the literal views we've been given with Sif as the only woman in the training yard in modern eras...?

It's pretty likely that raised-in bit of social ugly is pretty well dug into their society as well.

Again and that said: figuring out how a lady rather than a fighter might run her life, or fit in at those upper tiers without picking up a weapon: has been put on some display.

Asgard has a very wonky, heavy half ren/medieval approach to their upper heirarchy on display, complete with ladies in waiting (which Tony takes a little off jab at in GROUNDED too lol,) and healers especially seeming to be a majorly female profession.

There wasn't a single dude in that scene with Jane that wasn't either royalty or a guard, if you look at it again. Every single one of the healers is a woman.)

That mentioned, another place to look for examples, are again: Frigga's personal surroundings. And Dark World gives us a good look at those.

One thing to note, is that besides the healers: pretty much every Asgardian lady has armor in some portion of their wardrobe. Whether that's a breastplate, vanbraces (wrist/forearm,) gorgets (neck guard, like Loki's) or something else to accompany their dresses.

Vanbraces (Thor 2011)

Vanbraces and Archer's breastplate (Dark World Dungeon Scene)

Vanbraces, Pauldron, and partial Chestplate (Dark World, final scene)

There are moments when we see her and them without armor pieces (or in some scenes with even fewer of them at least, like teh carefully disguised set in the top gif) but for the most part those outfits are reserved for really important parties that are the equivalent of formal-dress parties: in which case we can see that even Sif doesn't escape from the expectation of wearing a literal dress: though even then.. hers is the odd one out of the others shown/on display in the room as far as style:

Which tells us a couple of things, but first and foremost and something that makes sense in their culture: is that even if they're not mainline fighters, and having been invaded enough to need and upkeep those shields in the first place?

Other than fancy events/celebrations and or coronations? The armor pieces are definitely as much local every day cultural fashion thing, as they are functional in some cases.

It's pretty likely that even the ladies of the court at least know and are expected to upkeep at least minor skills in self defense, if not the defense of their own homes: and are probably taught to do so from a very young age. They're not going to be as good at it outside of their own personal territory, or a territory they know well like say the Valkyrie were supposed to be, as the equivalent of a special forces military task unit: but they probably are expected.

Another side note..? This above, is ultimately; also among the forgiving reasons I don't question why Frigga went to the main palace outside of her taking Jane with her when she went. As Queen and lady of the house under that form of society, it absolutely passes without Jane in tow. However.. without Jane in tow, there's also the bit she couldn't have known at the time; that the writers did of course .. the fact that any of the elves were even alive and kicking. [And gee; thanks for that again Bor, lol! like father like son, I guess? Bor, his son, and said son's wife DO seem to have a habit of -not- telling their kids about world and universe ending enemies being alive after the fact, don't they? coughcoughHELAcoughcough.. XD]

There is one other bit, besides that: that we do get about the society from all that too though. At least about the surviving upper echelons of the ruling class: and that is?

That Odin had a really tight reign on the upper royals and his fighting forces surviving the Great Wars as King.. lips and all: unless amongst the entirety of their armies, council, other generals (besides Hela, which HOO is that a whole conversation unto itself Loki and Laufey related when you look at that timeline with Hela in it omg..) and pretty much every lady in waiting, servants .. or just other lords and ladies? Just didn't notice a surprise baby that the Queen -didn't- give birth to, was randomly being presented as a new baby prince to the Asgardian Empire. Which.. is next to impossible; especially when you take into account that this wasn't another country he took this kid from, or a society unfamiliar with magic: he took Loki from an entirely differing species and PLANET elsewhere in the universe in the middle of the last battle of one of the largest and bloodiest wars in their generation: and forced passing him off as his own.

Even if, he did manage that; maybe sequestering his wife and passing Loki off as a twin or some shizz? Someone if not a whole lot of someones probably knew.. but especially the healer or healers who would have treated any wounds throughout Loki's lifetime.

We could, almost say that they could have presented him as an adopted Asgardian kid.. and maybe he and Frigga did, to some of them on the sly to help keep it under wraps.. but that doesn't fit how their relationship is depicted, shown or talked about prior to or even after the reveal of his species and bloodline at all, either.

And that still wouldn't pass the first time this kid hurt himself, or was injured in battle under the scrutiny of an uninformed healer's ability in that society, with magic and high tech and more very much at their fingertips and in their alliances and enemies too, to be recognized.

Meaning, at least a portion of the populace closest to the crown, and especially those types old enough to have taken part in the last of the Great Wars or tending Loki as he grew and fought and more as a captive prince: were either just as complacent or, shut up by either if not both portions of the crown house really damned fast and really efficiently likely through threat, exile or worse. Keep in mind, the Great Wars and especially that one was still freshly finished, and they made a great show of making sure we knew there would be problems having the future ruler of the enemy they had been killing for an un-foretold length of time next to the crown in how even mention of Jotnar was allowed to form in Asgardian society: through Loki's words, through Thor's reactions and words, through Odin and through Frigga too.

The hate was strong enough even a thousand years plus of Odin's rule with Loki as prince later, that Thor thought it was A-Okay to go ahead and invade the planet and restart that war, against the literal warnings not just from every single person around him before he did it: and not just warned but told outright by his father and the King 'don't you fuckin' dare' well before even that.

That.. is the kind of society and expectations, an Asgardian Lady would have been raised into and led by along with the rest.

All that said, this is getting long; and there are metas rather than canon they come from that I could mention regarding Vanaheim as the most prevalent colony of Asgardians/partial Asgardians too, but.. we don't get a whole lot of them or their off world society other than to know that Odin doesn't care about them NEARLY as much: or at least not enough to even provide them defensive cannons or other defenses that Asgard otherwise VERY clearly has and has had for literal ages as put on display in the Dark World.

Being a woman in that society would probably be a very, well...

Probably, brainwashed to accept a lowered expectation of self worth over all, without the ability to fight on a greater tier than just home and self defense. And those who don't fall into those already asserted social standards would definitely be outliers if not outcasts. We have Loki himself and how Frigga's skills are viewed and worded even by her own family, as example of that.

So.. that's a lot to keep in mind but.. yeah. It is there, and more that; I probably haven't touched or missed while in the process of going on and explaining that.

For Sigyn though, for me: I do have some planned for her but as she doesn't exist in the MCU and adapting her would for me have to take all of that in mind: that is being approached very back burner for late Vestibule 2 (after Mixology) and Vestibule 3 as what ultimately boils down to an OC version of her. In part because I like that character in real life lore, and Skadi's character: and when I do write for them both.. I want to try and convert them to fit into the MCU base in a way that feels right to me.

Which is going to be rough when getting into more detailed versions of stuff like the very brief mentions of Skadi's tale and others I've already done in fics like Simon Says/Bail: given the MCU is twice removed from actual Norse Mythos; being Asgard in the MCU is more loose in being based off of Marvel, which in turn is then just as loose in the comics' basing their characters from that Norse Mythos.

Also, am tired .. is eleven PM lol sorry for not continuing, and getting extra rambly. But will add more pretty pictures to make up for it a lil bit? lol

If you have more questions or want some elaboration on anything, by all means feel free to send me asks just like this one.

I generally try to answer pretty quickly when I see them lol.

[karthik82]

Leo (2023) Directed by Lokesh Kanagaraj Yesterday, at 5 PM, the title of Vijay's next movie was revealed, along with the release date and a promo video. What's very exciting about this for me is that it's his second collaboration with Lokesh Kanagaraj. I have loved every single one of Lokesh's movies, and I enjoyed "Master" greatly. So I am really looking forward to this, and it has music by Anirudh Ravichander too. These two people can do no wrong in my opinion! The teaser is very similar to the title reveal video for "Vikram", very similar shots and camera moves. Like the promo for "Vikram", I think it doesn't have any actual footage from the movie itself, it's its own thing. We see intercut footage of Vijay making chocolate, and Vijay forging a sword, and then these two elements kind of sync up with him dipping the forged sword into chocolate! He says the tagline of the movie "Bloody Sweet", and we see the title of the movie "Leo" with the release date of 19 October 2023. You hear an eagle sound, and an eagle flying in one shot of the teaser, which could be a reference to 'the eagle is coming' line from the "Once Upon a Time" song from "Vikram". As mentioned, this teaser is very similar to the "Vikram" title reveal video, which has to be intentional, so whether this movie will also be part of the Lokiverse or not, we will have to see. The "Bloody Sweet" song reminded me of the track "34 Ghosts IV" by Nine Inch Nails, it's not the same but gave similar vibes to me. It's really great. Can't wait to watch the movie! Also, I must mention @niveddo because, it's through his Instagram Stories that I got to know about this title reveal. I drew Vijay from the end of the teaser video. The drawing is done with 0.5 mm 4B mechanical pencil on a new A5 sketchbook that was recently gifted to me. You can swipe to see a scan. #karthikabhiram #dailymoviesketch #leo #thalapathy67 #vijay #lokeshkanagaraj #lcu #lokiverse #shotoniphone #716 / 4-Feb-23 (at Marredpally,sec-bad) https://www.instagram.com/p/CoP0uIwSGXT/?igshid=NGJjMDIxMWI=

[blindtaleteller]

Like I've said.. treason. Though there's a count here they don't cover: even before Loki's order.. Thor was banished by Odin. So that's two kings they and Heimdall betray here, including the sleeping one. Not just the one.

[ao3feed-thor]

Mending Bridges

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/zhI8UDG

by blindtaleteller

Universe 0.

Heading towards a rebuilding Asgard in the aftermath of their very different Infinity War; MacBeth (Stephen Strange) and Hvedrungr (Loki) have time along the gateways to make another attempt at reconciling their relationship as mentor and apprentice as a last post-humous request of the Ancient One: and Stephen manages to pin down the worst of his issues as a result.

Not all of those, or the answers he gets; are what Stephen expects: or things he's even allowed himself to see in the wake of Celt's death and especially how that happened.

Not until the God of Mischief points them out to him, unfortunately.

Words: 8111, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English

Series: Part 37 of Lokiverse Extras

Fandoms: Thor (Movies), Doctor Strange (Movies), The Avengers (Marvel Movies)

Rating: Teen And Up Audiences

Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings

Categories: M/M, Multi

Relationships: Loki & Stephen Strange, Loki & Peter Quill, Bruce Banner & Loki, Loki/Peter Quill

Additional Tags: Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Alternate Universe, Alternate Reality, Multiverse, Conjoined AUs, Canon Divergence - Post-Avengers: Infinity War Part 1 (Movie), Avengers: Endgame Didn't Happen, Fix-It of Sorts, Attempt at Humor, Angst and Feels, Coping, Grief, Reconciliation, References to Macbeth - Shakespeare, References to Hamlet, Angst and Drama, Developing Relationship, if I have to tell you what 3 words he doesn't say; I SWEAR

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/zhI8UDG

[worstloki]

the lokiverse doesn’t need furniture to be a flaming mess

based off (x) 

[blindtaleteller]

..oof! Tags, cause ..chills.

The Loki I owed you.

[blindtaleteller]

MCU Asgard Canon Observation Research [Part 1]

Firstly and before I even start in on the subject, keep in mind that this is what it says: a collection of research into actual Canon Lore from the Marvel Cinematic Universe: not the comics, or the Nordic lore twice removed from it.

Secondly and alongside that, also keep in mind that even back at the start of the MCU as a long term project, while the MCU is based on the Marvel comics universe: the creators made a point of making it a completely different universe: for many varying reasons, including the spaces lacking continuity in the comics over the years that the MCU as a project wanted to pursue from it's first conception.

This is a large part of why there are phases and why they were numbered from it's creation. (And yes also why my tags recently mentioning counting phases are what they are elsewhere, but that's a whole other post.. or set of them.)

These are important to remember because, I would like to avoid previous iterations of people wasting their time trying to insert comics-universe lore and more excessively into or onto this requested post purely for the sake of, well; being argumentative or just trolling:as much as possible. I do try to take some time to respond to comments and reblogs as much as possible, but I can and will ignore or yes, at times point out people unable to manage these things.. and respond as necessary.

I normally wouldn't bother to mention this except yes, that has happened before so: consider this your disclaimer.. I ain't dealin' with you if you're gonna be a trolly shit disrespectful enough of the time effort and willingness to share what research and observations I have, by shitting on it or me in your pursuit of whatever flimsy excuses might be given for any inhuman reactions posted passive aggressive or worse.

More frankly: be respectful on my posts or get lost. I don't tolerate harassment on my blog whether it's aimed at me or others. Passive aggressive or otherwise. I'll discuss stuff, am happy to have any valid references I might miss added to and pointed out. Just don't be an asshat about it, and you'll get the same from me. That's how basic-bitch Karma, and I; both work: you'll get what you give along those lines, while in my space.

The necessary now out of the way... Next!

More as a side note with that mentioned; while I may mention some meta/theory in the form of the most probable (as that's how my meta in particular is formed) it is again: based on the facts of the canon lore and contexts confirmed presented in it; visually, in dialogue, and out of the mouths of the very people who made all that themselves, at the time that lore was given to us on screen: and will be mentioned as the theory and supposition that is 'meta' rather than 'canon'. I have gone out of my way as a fan of world, universe, and character building as a part of the creative process in particular: to watch, rewatch, rewatch again and again, and hunt down all this stuff (often lol purely out of my own curiosity.) All in all Meta is theory, Canon is story/film-established fact; and I do try to keep a clear line between the two of them. The early world and character building in the MCU has always been interesting enough to me alone, to do all that with my free time.

And that's especially true with Asgard in particular, as a main story driving force in one form or another as far back as 2010 when both Thor and CA: tFA's scripts were being filmed and their sets/settings picked out and created.

Final few bits before we get into it..? As Asgard lore (and even a lack of it's presence at times) is directly and appropriately attached and or in relation to the lore of several races, species, and massive events in the entirety of the MCU's first three phases.. I will be touching some of those cultures and places too, where important. Probably not in this particular part, but yeah. It's gonna happen.

As with the research post into Loki and his year of absence prior to Avengers 2012: (yes that's a link to an ask that contains a good chunk of info and years of interviews on that particular subject) this might not be an entirely complete compilation: for the same reasons. As I said, i didn't just watch, I rewatched repeatedly from differing personal mental angles: not just three or four times, but and as I wrote my own fanfiction.. I would also re-watch once or twice just prior to fleshing out an outlined story of my own to refresh my memory, seek out interviews official and otherwise from the creators and actors who made that lore and put it on screen for us to enjoy as part of the stories we enjoyed (or not, depending lol) and well.. the resulting organization of the whole outside of this post is less than comprehensive for anyone else. You can see the explanation for how that happens in the foreword of that thread if you're curious.

As a result, I may or may not exclude the actual interviews if this gets too long. Much of the visual in this first part especially are pretty self explanatory, as I did find some of my dissection pics too.

All said (I think? Gods I hope so that was a lot wasn't it? XD) and as suggested/requested recently in discord?

This one is gonna be expansive.. and hellaciously so: so grab your drinks and your snacks and still be prepared for this series of posts to be going for while (not kidding, may be compiling this properly between jobs for weeks) so yeah..

Here we go again!

The major forgotten fact of Asgard's depiction in the MCU is this:

We the audience are only shown a very tiny fragment of Asgard as another separate planet in space, and: they do show us we're missing as much, from the very first film.

That gif directly from the movie I used at the top? I'm using it again, because...

..look at that.

With topography, perspective and size in mind.

That tiny golden triangle in the middle is the Palace at the center. The little golden bar along that tiny portion to either side? Is the city attached to it proper, with the Bifrost, and as far as we've seen the 'Heroes Road' (as soem are calling it) and city walls cupping the Bifrost Bay directly facing the camera.

This is a space shot (of course,) and that tiny itty bitty moving spec that is still shrinking as it gets further from our perspective and closer to Asgard at the bottom, is the Bifrost in use.

And, they do give us a few views of that as early as five to six minutes into the first movie in 2011, as seen in the first clip below. I've set it to share at the first view of Asgard itself.

Hopefully that works. If not, the timestamp you're looking for is 2:04.

I recommend shutting off the audio, as it's a bit distracting. Trust me, we will get back to the very interesting audio from a world builder's perspective, when we get to the History and Relations section of Asgard's break down.. there are several tons, of that and in that opener alone, to examine later.

IMPORTANT!! When looking at any of these images or videos, keep in mind and look at the scale. Not just in the scene on screen at that moment, but also in reference to previous shots. Distance is a thing. The size of trees and people are a thing. This place in the MCU is much more massive than where it's very cloistered story parts take place.

This is not a city-planet like and for comparison: Coruscant, from Star Wars... though I am very aware that some people will throw out Asgard's concept art to try and 'debunk' that (yes its' been done and proven pointless in other threads).. that does also bring us to another couple of facts that slip by in their context.

In fact, you know what? I'll throw it in here right now myself:

This concept art: does still apply, if slightly adjusted with the topography and likely under ground portions taken into account.. because Asgard is the name of both the planet AND the city as separate entities of the same locale.

In other words, the concept art is VERY valid as a map of the city itself: but not the outlying locations outside of Asgard as a Capital City Proper, of Asgard as a disk planet.

And again.. they do show us this, and not just in the first film: although that first shot going into the city says as much too, being that..

A. Asgard is established as a society greatly more advanced than Earth and most others, and;

B. there are whole swaths of land (and especially mountain they like to build into) without structure between the edge panned through and the City itself. (see still image below: not the best quality but it's also in the video.)

Which.. we'll touch again a little more in a bit (and probably the biggest lol) part of this breakdown set; digging at History, Culture, and Relations.. as the fact they do prefer to build INTO their environment much more than on top of it is also shown in the shot of the canyons and canals on which not only that city is built, but even what buildings are shown outside of it on that panning-in shot.

We can see in the one above though: that while they did redirect some of the water through canals in the lower shot; they also kept and built into the natural(?*) lay of the river canyons below.

This theme is kept even before we get into the city though with the first part of the shot above the water.

Want a more visual view of the breakdowns as I do them?

Here you go, here's one example from out of my crazy folders and docs, that I made in paint back in 2013 (LOL yes I know. XD) while once again re-watching that same scene.

I would highly suggest clicking on it, as tumblr does downsize images making text on them hard to read otherwise. Crappy in-motion quality screen cap but, it was made more for breaking down the visual elements on screen for what it told us about the land, and more; on it.

----[?*] As a set of side/foot notes to that last bit and the image..

A. the top left corner yes: does reference some of where I use certain observations of canon in my own fics; and how they would have grown or evolved depending on that story. In this case, and at the time: the pink text is making note to utilize those observations in outlining Hvedrungr (Loki from Uni 0) and Flykra's (Loki from Vesti1 Uni 14) universes in particular: both of which return to Asgard at VERY different times and in different situations: while the history and culture I've been able to glean and expand on in some cases is still part of their and the location's background. As I don't have the patience to remove the text from an old paint shop cut.. I thought I would at least explain it's presence left there. These things are, ultimately connected by the culture that originated on and created them on that planet after all.. and why there's an entire section dedicated to the varied aspects of Asgard's presented Cultural, Relations, and History lore. B. The '?' at the 'natural' mention in parenthesis above, also takes into account that Asgard is much older than Earth's culture and has to be: if only because as only three generations have come and gone over the passage of what to us is five thousand years! (see the next installment Thor the Dark World: Bor and Darkalfheim, or just watch the movie with info gathering in mind.) In other words, between Bor's War, and Odin's Asgardian Great Wars: we cannot be certain whether or not 1. those canyons are actually natural or the now aged result of one of many previous interplanetary wars, or 2. whether Asgard at this stage of it's showing timed at 2011 more than a millennia later, has even always been this size, given their advancement in technology and study of magic as presented OR left in question, either. For my part, as there's no conclusive dialogue from that era to state otherwise in the MCU or it's interviews that I know of, and knowing the context of Malekith and Darkalfheim's familiarity with Asgard itself during their raid to reclaim the infinity stone: I tend to veer towards a mixture of the two. While it's very likely at least some of the canyons are indeed natural; the great age of the culture and planet both, along with the nature of Bor and Odin's rules alone as we've seen them: leaves a HUGE and LONG period of time and opportunities for some of those nasty fights to come directly to them... or even their predecessors. Which would also explain why they had that shield for the palace too. You don't build and more importantly upkeep something like that without a very good set of reasons or examples experienced, to do so after all. Much of that is meta though, however based on canon fact it may be: and as many of the creators were not asked publicly during that era, and have been dismissed or moved on to other projects since.. it's hard to know if we'll ever see a *genuine* answer from the people who actually made it all starting sixteen years ago.

Anyway, let's look at a few more shots of Asgard with that breakdown going. Some of these are all old, from as far back as about ten years ago when I first started writing outlines for the varied universes in my Lokiverse Project: but they do still hold up. theer are some from TDW in this bunch too. I heavily dissected these scenes knowing I was going to do whole chapters in multiple differing universes, and wanted to have the presented layout and feel laid out in my head, before I started adding in locations on the planet not yet shown on film. And given my first Book was already going to be DREAMS.. where Asgard has been blown to bits post Endgame? I really wanted to get it right so I could deconstruct it as many times as I and the muses wanted to. Laufeyson (Universe 10 Loki) was pretty insistent too with the opening chapters on his end focusing partially on that chase with Abell through Asgard's blown apart ruin

Sorry for the ramble of an explanation, but that's how it is and how it works over here...? XD

..uhmmmm. Yeah lol! When I said I watch and re-watch from differing mental perspectives..? That's what I mean. I don't usually share those at all... only the unedited pics. Genrally I will take caps or take existing raw caps and pick out piece that catch my eye. I've been told they do help put your brain in the right mode for those who have difficulty processing them in that way, like I do when in that mode. Also yes, trees and fish ...bruh. lol!

It's there, has been for years in some cases; and I'm not messing with it now.

That basic bit out of the way (doesn't sound so basic does it.) Let's backtrack a bit, specifically to Asgard's shape and the placement of it's location and the locations on it.

As I first write this, I don't have the talks I had with a few wild meteorologists and geologists back then directly on hand (as this is a part I still don't focus on too much; but:) shaped as it is, those I did talk to theorized that between the shape and placement of planets as well as the nebula they're partially inside, that Asgard may be shaped and in rotation as it is because of its' placement in it's system: or because of late interference by Asgard's inhabitants to keep it stable.

^ That one scene in particular from Thor 2011 really made my eyes pop. Not because of what's going on in it so much as trying to answer the whys and hows and what the actual fricks man: because..

Can you imagine, the conversation: trying to pitch that spinning death ball to the King there OR anywhere else on the planet before Bor or even his great grandfather?

Or, trying to talk the royalty down from the idea of putting it anywhere NEAR the palace, or other people's homes?

How about testing that house sized death-by-velocity-alone gilded mess? (Yes I still laugh thinking about that. Some poor scholar/engineer type trying to dissuade Bor's grand-daddy from building what would definitely become a giant pinball of death in the canyons and canals, if that thing ever came off it's anchors even once in the city. Good gods! lol!) Who knows; maybe that was when people started moving to Vanaheim... XD! Just (mostly) kidding.

Cray-cray thoughts of high velocity gilded pinball hell that was probably somewhere way back in the Bifrost's likely development and evolution as tech/normie science boosted by magic, and or vice versa, aside:

You probably notice I've mentioned the nebulae and the planets in their rotation more than once. And with good reason.

Backing up a bit; Asgard is interesting well before you hit her shores.

Not only is she a top-shaped disk-planet: but with the way the sky is shown: Asgard has a very interesting rotation if she has any left at all. There's very little we know, but what we do know is she is not alone in her systematic rotation either way.

(Asgard's sky from Thor's personal Hall in Thor: the Dark World)

In fact and as seen in the screen caps above: Asgard has an incredibly close relation to at least three planets in her nebulous solar system. At least one of which is absolutely massive: massive enough that it's close proximity is theorized as being pretty likely to be the only way Asgard experiences night cycles as seen in Thor: the Dark World... mainly through eclipsing the nebulous sun by passing between it and Asgard as a planet.

Which is both cool -and- scary when you take things like degrading orbits, space debris and projectiles like comets and other space science into account.. but also very, very interesting.

It also begs the question either way: why didn't Asgard at their earlier establishment of a greater technological level, colonize or move to those planets sooner? Of course.. the first obvious answer is.. they probably couldn't, at first. And even more probably were past trying by the time the Bifrost was built, prior to Bor's time (I say prior because we have seen Bor use it in Thor the Dark World: and on a massive scale moving whole armies, the same as his son Odin. See some of the scenes from Bor's seizure of the Aether below.)

But yeah, Asgard is a pretty unique place even before you get to the water fall's edge: or questioning what kind of condensed mass it has to retain gravity at it's very small size.

Or, whether that gravity and the shape is in fact generated in some form or another after millennia upon millennia of just the Wars we do know about in their history.

(At current we know about Darkalfheim and the series of Wars including Jotunheim and Muspelheim that they call the Great Wars. While they are definitely aware of the extensive millennia of intergalactic war between the Xandarian based Nova Corps and the Kree Empire put front and center in GotG.. there hasn't been any actual confirmation as to whether Asgardians fought in that war on either side: only that they are at that stage at least loosely allied with Asgard.. if not a more separated protectorate being considered among the nine realms in the MCU.)

Why do I keep pointing out trees, and perspective; or teh size of the city in that first little gif again?

Because.. that is our repeated visual evidence of just how much of Asgard as a planet; the story did not take place in.. huge parts of the place we haven't seen. And that makes sense.

Power plants or generators, smithys, and even schools can be easily placed in the city proper, at this stage.

But what about BEFORE, they got to this stage.. because that is a thing in the MCU in regards to Asgard: and a major plot point for three movies of script running, from 2010 all the way to 2015 when Taika Waititi was hired (unfortunately, for those of us who know the root of what happened there.)

What about food, for thousands of 5000 year lifespans and their kids. And their grandkids. And.. the food for the livestock, or the wild game

Or the bilgesnipes and dragons--well we can guess what happened to the dragons of Asgard in particular actually. If they were anything like Muspelheim's; and on a planet that size..? It doesn't take much to figure out Odin, Bor and their predecessors probably couldn't excuse not hunting a predator big enough to swallow people to extinction: not for much longer than they absolutely had to anyway.

What about fibers and leather for clothes.

How about waste management, for both the city and suburban areas? Sewers? Water filtration? Factories or slaughterhouses to process it all, and the means to support those things. Everything man made, is grown, processed or made somewhere.

We know they have these things, because we know they have and make their own alcohol (fermentation of grains, fruits, and more); as well as other things to eat: displayed in both T1 and TDW.

(The top image is from Thor's table flip scene in Thor 2011; while the one below it is from the tavern scene in the beginning of Thor: the Dark World.)

Meat, vegetables, fruit, grain, herbs, and seasonings are all represented on the tables above. While some might be imported (I really do wonder about the platters of golden apples myself:) it's not very likely all of them are. And it wouldn't make sense for them to have been imported from off world throughout their species development either. After all and again: they would have had to have survived and developed enough to GET TO, that stage in the first place.

You're also looking at Varnish in the shine of that table; smithing and metal working and ceramics in their table ware. Weaving either plant or animal fibers in their clothes, as well as the likely production of tannin (or it's equivalent) and leather working in every leather piece on screen. Candles can be made from varied sources, whether that's actual wax of some form, or condensed animal fat.

Oh, and if you find the enlarged version of those images: you'll also notice things like fine engraving and metal sculpture to the goblets and platters on the Thor 2011 table in particular.

Either way, the images above show us directly that unsurprisingly, they have come to understand whole other sub-levels of production: before you even get to the high-tech and magic ends of any of that to be able to reproduce it in that modern era.

As another side note related to that: the booze alone is pretty telling as to how far off the "Loki" series is on this mark, as well. Creators of current content 'conveniently forgot' that this is supposed to be a space faring, technologically advanced society (even if they're the social equivalent of medieval imperialist thugs .. lol sorry not sorry! That's literally how they're depicted... and honestly that really weird twist IS some of Asgard's most interesting and strange development) whose friends, allies and other examples of places visited DO and HAVE included Earth, Xandar, and six other 'realms' as their etymology names them: for literal millennia. Even taking the other, long established cultural influences and visitations aside? For a society who 5000 years ago was still porting whole armies to other planets to kick peoples asses? The idea they never discovered honey; or sugar especially even on the inside of a fermentation barrel for wine; OR how to process it into something like candy? Is more than just a -little- dumb in the stretch. Sugar often naturally starts to separate and crystallize during the fermentation process. Ask a vintner, or look it up if you don't believe me. Just sayin'.. just on Earth alone, we know sweets were discovered more than 8000 years ago. Eight thousand. And the only reason we haven't been able to confirm people older than that finding things like bee's hives?? Is because well.. that kind of thing rarely survives even that length of time at all, to be found in archeology in order to tell us more. I'll touch that and how it's pretty damned near impossible that 'Loki doesn't know wtf candy is' being 1k+ years himself, and a guy raised as an Asgardian prince & spymaster to boot later into the culture section I think, but mmm.. that whole bit still reeks of stupid, to me And more so after their own DB Cooper scene. Gonna say candy wasn't a snack in that era either? Cause if so; I got big shocking news, for those who think so... XD

In closing.. for this part?

As far as the world of Asgard goes, we have only been allowed to see a very small part of it: and even then? It is still undoubtedly massively larger than even what's implied: and definitely capable of supporting it's comparatively small base population of less than 10k people.

(Odin's subterranean vault reference: exterior)

The only reason we don't see even more of it; is the fact that films have a limited time to give you everything, and the story focuses on the royal family from the get go. And they live, in the heart of Asgard's capital city... so we largely don't see as much of that as weirdo world building fans like me would absolutely love to see in the process... and frankly; they gave plenty enough to start us off with.

The films would have suffered for having too much more of that, rather than the stories they were trying to tell.

The same.. I would love to know more: and I do wish the current teams paid the previous ones more respect by using what was already there and expanding on it: instead of making mismatched new things up, as they went.

The early creative teams really knew what they were doing back then.

(Asgard's defensive cannons defending against the Darkalfheim air raid in Thor the Dark World.)

And no, this isn't all they showed us, in the show and tell they did manage to give us over the course of years of work... far from it.

Hope you enjoyed part one! Maybe you learned or saw something you missed.. or have been inspired to watch the older films again..?

I know I often am.

[ao3feed-thor]

Mending Bridges

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/zhI8UDG

by blindtaleteller

Universe 0.

Heading towards a rebuilding Asgard in the aftermath of their very different Infinity War; MacBeth (Stephen Strange) and Hvedrungr (Loki) have time along the gateways to make another attempt at reconciling their relationship as mentor and apprentice as a last post-humous request of the Ancient One: and Stephen manages to pin down the worst of his issues as a result.

Not all of those, or the answers he gets; are what Stephen expects: or things he's even allowed himself to see in the wake of Celt's death and especially how that happened.

Not until the God of Mischief points them out to him, unfortunately.

Words: 8111, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English

Series: Part 37 of Lokiverse Extras

Fandoms: Thor (Movies), Doctor Strange (Movies), The Avengers (Marvel Movies)

Rating: Teen And Up Audiences

Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings

Categories: M/M, Multi

Relationships: Loki & Stephen Strange, Loki & Peter Quill, Bruce Banner & Loki, Loki/Peter Quill

Additional Tags: Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Alternate Universe, Alternate Reality, Multiverse, Conjoined AUs, Canon Divergence - Post-Avengers: Infinity War Part 1 (Movie), Avengers: Endgame Didn't Happen, Fix-It of Sorts, Attempt at Humor, Angst and Feels, Coping, Grief, Reconciliation, References to Macbeth - Shakespeare, References to Hamlet, Angst and Drama, Developing Relationship, if I have to tell you what 3 words he doesn't say; I SWEAR

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/zhI8UDG

[blindtaleteller]

Question about medical care in Asgard… I'm talking about a case of Odinsleep/coma. How different do you think caring for a person in a coma would be on Asgard than on Midgard?

Gonna assume you're asking about the MCU as I answer this! 💚

With a Coma/Odinsleep .. Probably not too terribly different in act for the most part IF it's being treated like a regular coma; but incredibly different in aesthetic, and well.. it does get a little more iffy when you're talking about 'Odinsleep' in particular, even with what little we do know from what's shown and said about it on screen which I say by means of examples given, both canon and deleted from it.

Some things definitely do change if you take deleted scenes from Thor 2011 into account in particular though: as one of the things they removed entirely from existence in the cutting room in that movie, was something called 'healing stones.' They actually had two portions of scenes that they shot (one in the hospital after Jane ran him over, and one just prior to the final portion of the fight with the 'Destroyer' in New Mexico.) I'll slap them in here if I can find them out of my giant clips playlist of doom.

Sticking with just the canon though; and specifically with the regular coma treatment first? The first thing you have to take into account is that there are lots of different kinds of comas, and that even Earth-tech wise, some of them are going to be treated a little differently (short, long term, caused by external injury, caused by internal injury, trauma induced are a thing too.)

That said, the first thing we have on display as far as Asgard's medical goes, is something that unsurprisingly is a repeated major portion of their basic lore in the MCU: that they aren't gods; they're an elder race who have been themselves reaching into the cosmos for eons of generations even stretching back to at least near enough to the beginning of their universe well established enough then, to take note of the fact that the Infinity Stones made at the birth of that universe, were not made by either them, or by the other elder races like the Dark Elves, or the even older Tivan brothers: with single generations lasting as long as five thousand years.

Related to that is also the fact that they by the time in their universal timeline we do catch up with them: they are very clearly a warmongering/imperial colonialist society. Even before and likely during them, Odin made a generation of wars horrible enough to be called 'The Great Wars' among the lot that he and apparently Hela (who was clearly full grown --meaning she was anywhere between 20ish and 1000 years herself-- even in her mural depictions,) to spread his version of 'peace' through the removal of what other species he percieved as threats and competition (see Muspelheim, Jotunheim) going so far as to make certain they couldn't rebuild even their capitals.

Why is that important in this conversation? Because that also means including Bor and Asgard's previous generation five thousand years prior to 2013's invasion of the elves; they had been dealing with injury, illness and more among their own resulting from those battles: and yes during those thousands of years of conflict between Bor's crusade, and Odin's: they had lots and lots of extra time to improve both their tech, and any magic along those lines.

Which yes are actually two very different things, though from the looks of it are often interconnected in Asgardian society in particular, unlike on Earth; where medical technology is foremost, and sorcery/magic has been forced basically into hiding by centuries of the many different flavors (both in religion base and name) of Inquisitions on Earth over the course of over a millennia by the time the twenty tens roll around. We also know that they do posses some limited means through technology, of suppressing some magic; but whether or not Asgard in particular has evolved their understanding of sorcery in particular to do so on a magical level is questionable at best given what we've seen between the first two films alone.

Given the blatantly similar societal distaste for most non-combative magic, and even a good portion of combative magic for that matter that's pretty likely not the case: even Thor refers to his mother's skills and knowledge as "tricks." However, that doesn't seem to apply where the "Healer's Hall" inhabitants and actual healers are involved.

Most obvious example of technological vs magic, and those limitations I mentioned above that we have is a pair of scenes in TDW: the Soul Forge in the Healer's Hall vs. Loki's full-room illusions.

Soul Forge (aka Quantum Field Generator:)

This is also, one of the scenes that continues to show rather than tell, the MCU established facts of their advancement.. and their arrogance around it when dealing with what Asgardians otherwise clearly still consider 'lesser' races under their protection. Quite a contrast to Loki's interactions with Selvig and Barton delivering those two a great deal more dignity and trust in A1 too, while they're building the portal device ...but that's a whole other set of attached social observations and comparisons I'm not gonna get into here. The point of this one is: if there's magic there; they're making it very clear there isn't much of it, and doubling down on that whole 'not gods, only mistaken for them' far more interesting take, on which MCU Asgard was built since the very first movie. (again though, it also displays their arrogance in that direction, as Eir not only treats Jane's inquiry very dismissively; but gets flustered and gap-mouthed [literally] when she positively identifies the diagnostic technology being used. It also is one of the many displays of how differing etymology between cultures in the MCU [yes there are a few, including the Dr. Strange film as another major example of that in particular] is a purposely crafted thing.)

ANYWAY!

Compare that technological, with the feats of sorcery Loki manages in that same film. Not only does he not use tech to manage his magic/sorcery (or 'tricks' as Thor calls it lol).. but he does so behind the locked door of, that same level of technology, in his own prison cell.. and beyond it. While some of the deleted scenes show this too? The final cut certainly wasn't lacking either.

So, all that said..? And without dipping into the whole discarded-from-canon 'Healing Stone' facet: it's very likely with a normal (or normal-ish lol) coma, that it wouldn't really be that different: just easier to some extent and probably a lot faster to correct any issues with those caused by injury in particular.

However! And most important:

Odinsleep, is something else entirely.

From the first film, we know through dialogue that not only is 'Odinsleep' not a normal coma by any means: it's one that can, has, and with the way they talk about it: SHOULD be induced every so often in order to maintain his health.

Where do we get that and why do I say 'his' in particular?

Because..

1. It is called Odinsleep, which says outright that in the MCU either Odin is a common enough name among Asgardian elder generations to be named as such OR, that it's a practice that belongs solely to Odin in particular.

2. The conversation between Loki and Frigga tell us as much, in their conversation over Odin's bed. (PS I couldn't find the full clip immediately, so I am posting the full uncut scene [with deleted parts] instead. The part that I've marked it to (timestamp 1:06 in the video below if that doesn't work for you) is what you need to listen to most, and was part of the final cut in Thor 2011.

Though the way they cut and rearranged this scene has some of that conversation out of sequence, the information given about Odinsleep remains the same in the much shorter canon conversation.

Their conversation tells the viewer outright, that not only is that a thing he does regularly, but that it can be planned out and planned for: as they make a point of stating that it's only this time, the Odinsleep was unprepared for.. and, they have seen it enough for Loki's first words to be stating the fact he 'never gets used to seeing him like this' .. meaning? He has seen it enough times that he thinks he probably should be: but also that it's upsetting enough an experience to him, that he isn't.

You'll note that they also briefly discuss the fact that Odin had been putting the Odinsleep off. It was coming anyway and regardless .. and should have happened far sooner.

While it's not technically counted as canon on screen, there's a little more information given directly about Odinsleep in the parts cut out too, if you choose to observe and use them: as well as a more direct showing of what we already know even without that scene of how Frigga chooses to pass the throne to the only heir not currently being guilty of and banished for several counts of treason including restarting the war and disobeying the king in that bed, with Thor's invasion of Jotunheim landing him firmly on Earth with the very obviously earned traitor title.

I'll leave it up to you if you want to watch and or use any of that, and you definitely could; since it's -again- just dialogue telling the viewer what's already known simply by watching the other scenes around it in the canon cut, including and especially the throne room scene where Sif & the Warriors Three request Thor's return, regardless of not only knowing he was banished for treason.. but also having been the others to try to remind and convince him alongside Loki; to NOT commit that treason, prior to him doing it and dragging them along anyway.

All in all, through those scenes; we are given a very clear set of rules and information about Odinsleep either way. Which includes the fact that it can be a form of coma that probably should not be randomly interrupted or the subject brought out of it, where it's apparently necessary for the individual's overall health: but can also be a state in which they might spend the last of their lives.

In that, this also tells us that; there isn't a whole lot that even Asgard's greater technology, or even magic can or should do, to bring someone out of it at all.

And, from the way they do deal with their King going through it even by surprise: we know that there isn't much they can do at all beyond keeping him comfortable and as healthy as possible until the Odinsleep finishes it's course naturally... whether that results in the subject waking up, or possibly, dying.

There's no mention of anyone else going through Odinsleep.. but there's also no mention of whether or not anyone else HASN'T, either.

Either way, that scene alone does show and tell a lot more about Asgard's medical capabilities and some of their limitations too, even as a society that's been at war since before Moses (lol but true, especially counting Odin's dad before him fought the elves for what Odin himself identified as 'Eternities of bloodshed' that didn't end until almost 5k years prior,) even, when cut down to the re-arranged version put down in the film's final cut.

Ultimately, and that said?

I don't think caring for a person in Odinsleep would be different from what we see on screen.

A whole lot of trying to keep them comfortable, undisturbed, and healthy; while wondering and worrying when and especially -if- they'll even wake up.

--Post Script, and a more direct personal example: Incidentally, and if you're curious: I have written Loki as having gone through his own "Odinsleep" in twenty thirteen, in Book Two (Vestibule 1, Universe 8) of my Lokiverse project: GROUNDED. Yes, that underlined bit is both the title and a link directly to where that long fic is posted on AO3, if you're curious how I handled it there. I suggest reading the chapters leading into that segment to understand how that portion of their multiverse got there, but if you want to skip a bit, the Odinsleep sequence itself starts in Chapter Four and ends in chapter Five, and is ultimately among the last of events before a time skip all the way into Civil War's era. It's not the only time the muses use it, but it is currently the only instance I have published.

[blindtaleteller]

Time to pull out my crazy research notes again? Because THIS: though it isn't even quite that simple, either. Chester makes it blatantly obvious he was not the pick that the governments involved wanted, or expected; at all.

He makes it clear during that scene, that they were in fact only humoring Erskine in allowing Steve into the program at Erskine's request.

And, that base governmental mentality sticks all the way through to TFATWS too almost a century later, in giving the shield to John Walker (aka US Agent) as a decorated veteran soldier.

(and staying true to this in TFATWS is one of the few countering reasons I give that series a decent pass out of the shit show that has been phase 4 and 5 so far: but that's a whole other discussion.)

---Remember, it was their goal to create a loyal army/armies of men with his ability; to combat the Nazis/Hydra in them first and foremost: it was not a goal to create an independent super hero.

But and that said; on that second paragraph in the above post in particular; there's what Chester Phillips (Tommy Lee Jones in CA1) informs us of outright on screen as to the government's reasoning in that film; because while that's true, they did actually have three or four main reasons for not putting him out with the troops.

Keep in mind that he experiment wasn't just recreated: it was stolen outright by the SSR (see quote indented below) from the Nazi party in CA1 by Erskine (the doctor who recruits Steve pre-serum), whom worked on the Nazi/Hydra project in its early stages and then flipped sides to work with the Allied forces including Carter (that's why she is there as a UK native, according to her own dialogue etc: to represent the Brits in the project) and Phillips.

(as another related note for the films after: Erskine's defection among others is probably the main reason why a newly forming SHIELD probably thought recruiting other Hydra scientists like Zola was a good idea and or acceptable risk vs profit. After all, if Erskine as a former Hydra/Nazi scientist could be successful before and during his death; all they had to do was keep the 'next' Erskine alive. Add in the fact that most of them probably worked on the project pre-defection and there was also the temptation of potentially sucessfully reviving the project with at least a little less feeling around in the dark by Howard Stark, from their perspective.)

Also keep in mind, that the marvel shows at the time (including Carter's series and AoS) were quickly 'disowned' by the then parenting mainline MCU: and those series' creators quickly adapted the shows to reflect that. In other words: they were outright declared not a part of the MCU for literal years (Feige's public statements being the most noted,) despite and regardless of AoS managing to be successful enough to run for several seasons.

If you don't recall that bit about it being an allied project, here's the direct quote re-stating it openly in Chester's address to the potential super soldiers including Steve:

"The Strategic Scientific Reserve is an Allied effort made up of the best minds in the free world. Our goal is to create the best army in history. But every army starts with one man. At the end of this week, we will choose that man. He will be the first in a new breed of super soldiers. And they will personally escort Adolf Hitler to the gates of Hell." ―Chester Phillips [CAtFA 2011]

Anyway and to move on: at the time, Erskine dying during the project's physical activation, was ultimately what pulled the project to a screeching halt (pretty much everyone knows this but yeah.) This has a major impact on the reasoning for Steve being shunted into the USO, rather than shuffling him off immediately to war. In fact, after Erskine's death; they had absolutely no intentions of sending him into actual battle, because of the above AND the following below:

1. Steve is not bullet or death proof: he just heals stupid-fast and has an equally stupid-fast metabolism (see his attempt at getting drunk in CAtFA among others.)

"You're an experiment. You're going to Alamogordo."

"The serum worked."

"I asked for an army and all I got was you. You are not enough." ―Chester Phillips and Steve Rogers [CAtFA 2011]

That said: what they were left with post explosion; was a living and breathing but not grenade, mortar, or bulletproof final product that they had yet to figure out how to reproduce in order to A - make good on the project's promise, and B - make good on the investments in time, manpower, other resources and especially #2: at a time when the war with the Nazis and with Hydra was already underway..

2. Money: and a ton of it from multiple governments.

The project, of which Steve was at the time the only successful product? Cost millions, between two major represented countries (again, the British had their part and investment in the SS program too, represented by Peggy.) From securing Erskine, to developing the new serum in the late 30s-40s, to training, selection, equipment, manpower diverted from the wartime effort on the actual battle fronts and more to manage all that. Today, and with inflation included, this would equate to billions of dollars/euros.

As a soft third and fourth, and one mentioned early in? There's also the facts of what else they already know the serum does, as stated by Erskine himself, and the fact that post-serum Steve has at that point yet to prove whether it has had any ill effects, or fatal personality issues (like, for instance Walker) that could have made him into a literal ticking time bomb.

After all, an American-branded version of Schmidt, they do not want or need.

Now, fast forward just a bit, and yep!

Erskine is still dead.

They are down even that living walking money sink of a success: but, they have his samples.

Zola is alive......as not only one of those who might have (and probably did) work briefly with Erskine; but also Schmidt's (Red Skull) main scientist and player in Hydra in both making the weapons Hydra focused on after losing Erskine, but also worked on Schmidt's attempt at the continuation of Erskine's work on the side.

(this one above is why Bucky and the Commandos were there and kept where they were, and in what condition as unwilling test subjects after their capture too: this is barely brushed in the dialogue etc, but it is there and mentioned off screen as well as in the acting that made it into the final cuts. Most notable is the fire scene. It isn't just Steve having a staring contest across that fiery gap. Bucky is staring at Zola too: the scientist who experimented on them during their captivity. most remember Schmidt umasking; but not the build-up stare-down between all four of them, leading up to it.)

Lastly, they have Stark; his business, money, and own genius in war tech: also wanting to stay on board and attempt to recover the project.. for both personal and other reasons.

And don't fool yourself, there were clearly other reasons involved, as a tech developer who was on board from the start: and whose son continued his running contracts with the governments involved and more, well after his death on December 16th, 1991.

Talking about Zola though; it's very likely that the Hydra-only end of the program --aka the Winter Soldier program-- while Hydra was still re-growing under Shield and it's other cells, was mostly his: if more remote in nature as far as his involvement.

After all, and again; Zola was inserted into Shield (and later if not immediately) under Stark, to potentially survey the work if not take even a minor part in it.. and probably had part in orchestrating Howard's death as part result to boot. After all.. Stark had to take that stuff out of the labs either in Jersey where we see Zola in AI form later or another location, at some point in '91; for it to get into his trunk.

This is where things confirmed about the project get sticky and weird, as either TFATWS in particular ignores the set history that caused Howard's death, or simply rewrites it to enable the over the top racial messaging in having Bradley be a success and figure much further back.

Because remember; the entire reason Stark Sr. was targeted was the fact he finally was A--only successful in making the completed serum by the late 1980s to 1991, and B--was personally transporting the then only five full doses of it in the trunk of his car of all places.

(don't get me started.. lol plot devices, but on the flip side; I suppose his not securing that better and taking Erskine's influence and death especially into account, is reason enough on the handling it personally bit. Though, I still question why he took his wife along while having that in the trunk. Like dude, if you're gonna be that cautious/paranoid in the attempt: and are aware governments have and will kill for it? why the hell would you have your wife in the same car???? Not to be an ass, but was he looking to take that chance to avoid a messy and costly divorce or summat? this is the epitome of examples where 'I'll meet you at the airport/hotel/winter house honey, i gotta do this thing real quick' definitely would have been possible and forgivable; and saved her even being in danger of being eliminated as a witness: which, as one of the founding members of SHIELD and at the top for decades, should have come to mind if he was thinking in that direction. but.. again plot devices? lol)

Ultimately, I chalk that bit in TFATWS up to pushing the off screen politics harder than the story and it's quality: as has been part of the current MCU for years now, but was especially picking up momentum during that era.

In the end, TFATWS pulled that story off (and even this part of the story concerning the serum) only slightly better because of the other off kilter counters they implemented from the previous takes out of Chester & the other examples of both sides of the project.

I think I'll stop there for now unless asked for more: because even just copy/pasting out of my research for Lokiverse docs, it is stupid long already..? 🤣💚

PS-- Some sections are just plain copy/pasted right out of my research docs for Universes like 'Bounce (Secret)' aka V1:Uni6, and post-snap Steeped, V1:Uni17. This includes side notes especially.

I also really wish we had just a couple more formatting options on tumblr. Underline, a smaller size than regular, a more advanced control of things like numbered list that doesn't auto-indent between paragraphs, etc.

Time to remember that the troops did not like Captain America at first lmao. Understandably so, I'd even say. Steve made the Captain America that everyone grew to love. That admiration wasn't just handed to him. Steve built everything that was revered in Cap. Not the other way around.

[marumigamer]

Hey everyone! I have been considering in resurrecting this place, since I have it fully abandoned. This last few years I have been vanished, I have been working in some personal writing projects that occupy my time fully. Unfortunately for many of you, they are in my native language and Spanish. One of them is being published in both AO3 and Wattpad, each language in one place. 

The story is about Marvel Loki, the one from the show, crossing a portal to “our world”, where he meets the Loki of a novel I’m writing, and discovers new things and things about himself. It’s 12 chapters long, and I will publish a new on tonight. The title is “The Lokiverse” and I plan to make i long, very long. Also, everything happens after the events of my novel, which isn’t finished yet, so you’ll find references to it. I’ll leave you the links here.

Catalan version (AO3): https://archiveofourown.org/works/41056845

Spanish version (Wattpad): https://www.wattpad.com/story/319457474-el-lokiverso-un-mundo-extra%C3%B1o

I’m also streaming on Twitch writing this story, 20 chapters ahead, if you actually don’t care about spoilers or are interested to know more before reading. Streams are supposed to be in Catalan, but I end talking Spanish anyway. I consider my channel bilingual, even if Twitch doesn’t let me put that. You’re not obligated to follow if you don’t want to, but I leave the channel link:

https://www.twitch.tv/marumigamer

Well, that’s all I wanted to say. I don’t know what I will do exactly, but at least I will tell you when I post new chapters of this story, probably in Spanish.

[ao3feed-thor]

Mending Bridges

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/zhI8UDG

by blindtaleteller

Universe 0.

Heading towards a rebuilding Asgard in the aftermath of their very different Infinity War; MacBeth (Stephen Strange) and Hvedrungr (Loki) have time along the gateways to make another attempt at reconciling their relationship as mentor and apprentice as a last post-humous request of the Ancient One: and Stephen manages to pin down the worst of his issues as a result.

Not all of those, or the answers he gets; are what Stephen expects: or things he's even allowed himself to see in the wake of Celt's death and especially how that happened.

Not until the God of Mischief points them out to him, unfortunately.

Words: 8105, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English

Series: Part 37 of Lokiverse Extras

Fandoms: Thor (Movies), Doctor Strange (Movies), The Avengers (Marvel Movies)

Rating: Teen And Up Audiences

Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings

Categories: M/M, Multi

Relationships: Loki & Stephen Strange, Loki & Peter Quill, Bruce Banner & Loki, Loki/Peter Quill

Additional Tags: Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Alternate Universe, Alternate Reality, Multiverse, Conjoined AUs, Canon Divergence - Post-Avengers: Infinity War Part 1 (Movie), Avengers: Endgame Didn't Happen, Fix-It of Sorts, Attempt at Humor, Angst and Feels, Coping, Grief, Reconciliation, References to Macbeth - Shakespeare, References to Hamlet, Angst and Drama, Developing Relationship, if I have to tell you what 3 words he doesn't say; I SWEAR

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/zhI8UDG

[blindtaleteller]

Rather, I think that's under-stated in that yes they are people; with that potential in fanfiction and the imaginations that produce them to explore the possible potentials the writer(s) see, that canon alone either fails to put forward, represent properly, or define for varied reasons.

It isn't that characters aren't people; it's that instead, writers often limit themselves and those characters in that realm by forgetting that they are supposed to be people: and people do have potential, under the right influences rather than the wrong ones (and sometimes the other way around;) with reason, and especially with the passage of time to get them there.

That's what any story with characters is, at it's core: a sort of travel log of their lives from point A all the way through to point Z if wanted or needed.

The best fanfictions I've read, or written; have been the stories canon either never saw to even try to tell them: or left to the wayside in favor of something else.

want to be clear that if i ever talk about a headcanon and then later discuss a headcanon that is directly contradictory to the first one, that’s because headcanons exist in a quantum state where they are all simultaneously true and not true up until the point where i discuss it in detail, in which case that is the one that is true in that instance. schroedinger’s headcanons

[blindtaleteller]

...for reasons. <w<;;

[lokiverserp]

Lisan (D12) : ...it's mandatory on Lua. And, if you do not inform at least one of Goose's ..tribe, on the way out of the Throne room? They have been known to attempt (and often succeed) to maul you; head and shoulders first, on the way back in.

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