#Loki Critical

[ichabodcranemills]

I’m rewatching Loki s1 and ugh it’s so infuriating how this show fucked up. Season 1 wasn’t by any means perfect. It had some goofy dialogue and questionable editing choices, but it had balls. It was doing something genuinely interesting and new. There was sci-fi shenanigans and technobabble, but it respected its own internal logic. It cared about being pretty and fresh and entertaining. And then it was all gone!

Season two was all about that stupid Loom that made no sense, it put the TVA as the ones being right. That’s so incredibly chilling when put it in contrast with season 1 and see how awful and clearly wrong they were! Renslayer was such a fascinating character and Sylvie! She was the second protagonist! She had a voice and a purpose! Season 2 blotted both of them out completely. Not to mention how they allegedly made B-15 a more prominent character, while actually removing all of the agency she demonstrated to have in season one.

And it turned into this sad, boring, gray show. Because the endgame was to save the sad, boring, gray time police agency. It was so antithetical to what season one tried to do. And I’m still so, so frustrated about it.

[sufferthesea]

hey the loki show was still good so you are wrong

I'm glad you enjoyed the show and you're obviously the target audience for it, but I still didn't like how most of the content was handled and I didn't like Sylvie. Considering my anti-Sylvie and Loki critical posts were from 2+ years ago, you're not one of my followers; and since you sent this on anon, I'm guessing you're never going to see this (unless you're waiting for my reply).

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion (including thinking that I'm wrong) and I'm entitled to my opinion (including disliking Sylvie/the Sylvie x Loki ship, and the way the first season panned out; I've yet to see season two). I loved the first half of season one, but I personally think they botched it (except for a few fun characters/scenes). I think I just had different expectations for the show and was disappointed with the direction they took it. But I haven't talked about Loki (the character and the show) for almost two years (aside from the meme post I made that I'd written when s1 came out but only posted maybe a month ago), so idk why my critical post is so far up in the Loki/Sylvie/Marvel tag for you to find it!!

Anyway, I definitely like media that other people consider "bad" (I'll forever defend Morbius as the best gay romance of modern times) and I don't like a lot of media that other people consider "good." I'm glad you liked the show, tho! I hope the next seasons are just as good for you, and I'll try out season 2 to see if I like it any better. I'll probably just watch it anyway, since I love Loki and (most of) his variants.

Besides, season 1 did give us this scene ...

[monsters-and-macaws]

Astarion is just the next Loki. That was my thought from the beginning and the impression I have of the character and, more importantly, of the fandom, only reinforced that.

See the main difference there is Astarion isn’t a massively popular depiction of a very much existing god in a still existing religion (despite being not loyal to the mythos OR to the comics origin but yk), he’s just a massively irritating twink and could probably be played by the same guy.

I have several gripes with the MCU.

[kittyfandango]

I watched Loki season 2. It’s probably some sort of self harm at this point

Was it better than season 1? Probably, yes.

Was it good? Eh… it had its moments. I’ll need some time to process exactly what I thought.

My biggest criticism is still that that man isn’t Loki. And the morality of the TVA is somehow now worse.

[murderbirds]

Ok, it has to be said. You guys are crying over Loki, really expecting Disney to give any sort of rep when a comic book show with actual well written canonical queer characters that SHOWS their identities in screen, a diverse range mind you, just not one gay character, gets completely ignored. As long as you keep feeding these people that queerbaiting is more financially viable than showing actual queer characters, they will keep doing it.

[seluvian]

So I just watched the Loki S2 finale. I knew it was going to piss me off, and I was right. I just. I don't understand what Loki has done to be so hated by his writers that even within the bounds of his own show, he is absolutely barred from peace. Disallowed from joy. Unlovable.

In season 1, the writers told us that the only person a Loki could love is another Loki. Because, they seemed to insist, there is something so inherently wrong with Lokis that they are unlovable by anyone else, when it comes down to it. And in the end, they can't even manage that much.

Season 2, for me, was worse. They have Loki tearfully confess how scared he is of being alone again, they have him break himself to pieces to try and save the only people he loves, who love him. He spends centuries, maybe longer by the end of it all, essentially alone, trying and trying and trying to save this one single place where he's felt like a person and been treated like one for the first time. And for his dedication, for his loyalty, for his love, he gets to sit alone at the end of all things, holding the universe together and watching his own universe, his friends and loved ones, go on without him. That's his reward. An eternity of loneliness. That's his happy ending.

I just don't understand why Disney insists on making more Loki content if they hate him so much. I guess it's true. He always loses. And so do we.

[magpie-murder]

Hey buddy, I too used to like Loki so much, he was my comfort character. Then I saw Ragnorak, where he was the butt of the joke and started to hate everything he was on.. I'll be very if he's done for good and left alone.

What's your opinion on the finale? I just simply read the plot on wiki.

i'm not watching (and will not watch— i'm boycotting disney+ out of support of palestine anyway) season 2, but i've been told about it so i do have some thoughts.

i think, as far as the show goes, it's by far not the worst ending they could have gone with. i feel that it's a mixed bag.

on one hand, i really enjoy seeing self-destruction in loki plotlines as a means to explore this very visceral and realistic grief. i've been saying for a little while that i would rather have had loki's story end at thanos' hands, because as horrific as it was and how much it upset me at the time, i think there's kind of a beautiful tragedy to it. especially in comparison to his treatment in the series.

on the other, i feel very bitter knowing that, after two seasons of a show which downplayed his trauma, made fun of his prior characterization (that cringe "i was so angry at odin and thor" dialogue), and demonized him for things he didn't do (i will stay mad about blaming him for frigga's death. that was not his fault lmao), he recieved an ending where he had to sacrifice his own comfort to protect his loved ones, and the world.

in theory, i ADORE this idea. i think it's extremely in-line with the stories i like to see from him for a character arc— learning to forgive the world for the way he was treated, and unlearning the (justifiably) defensive behavior that he used to defend himself which has only caused himself and his loved ones harm are both things i absolutely adore in a loki story.

however, it takes place in the finale of a show where he isn't really allowed to genuinely express his grief, or his trauma, or his remorse. obviously there could be a couple respectful scenes here and there that i magically have not seen, but the large majority of what i HAVE seen has been really condescending towards his character, and i feel that if there was a more sympathetic scene someone would have shown it to me by now in our discord server.

i ADORE tragedy stories. and i think this tragedy was pretty in-line with the purpose i believe he usually serves in fiction (characters are inherently storytelling devices, at the end of the day) so i think it's very bittersweet that something that emotional, and something that i love so much in theory, was a follow-up to a show in which the contents make me very uncomfortable.

that's just my two cents tho

[lokiinmediasideblog]

Loki rewatch on Bflix Thoughts

My main complaint about the Loki series other than the hyping up of genderfluid rep at interviews while there's none in the series, is that it's very rushed. Probably because they were trying to fit it into 6 episodes. Apparently it has 2 more seasons now. Hope the pacing gets better and that Marvel stops being a bitch about queerness. I love the cinematography and the musical score. I think that playing fucked up things happening to Loki as comedic plays into how susceptible we are to framing and propaganda, which is why I am not mad about it. It mirrors what we find out about the TVA. They are framed as the heroes keeping villains like Loki from wreaking havoc, but then we find out they are the reason Loki and everyone else can never change. And that they seem to target Loki variants more than any other. It introduces interesting concepts, and I like that pretty much every character on it is kinda shady but not irredeemable, not the boring noble heroes found elsewhere that I roll my eyes at. I like that most of them are both victims and perpetrators stuck in a cycle of systemic abuse. I am not a fan od some "just evil" antagonist that people that lack media literacy and think everything should be a PBS lesson advocate for.

[valkyrieandstrangeridingaragorn]

"If you blame Sylvie for Kang you missed the point of Loki!!!" Well apparently the point of Loki was to blame Loki for Sylvie's actions so they're not wrong...

It's a rather funny situation when you think about it.

They say the murder of HWR is both good and bad: it frees the multiverse but it unleashes chaos and allows for Kang and his variants to strike. But since they don't want to say anything negative about Sylvie because they have convinced everyone around them that whoever criticizes her is a misogynist, they praise her for freeing the multiverse and blame Loki for the chaos.

It's the same thing they do when discussing Sylvie's identity: She's a Loki when she does something wrong but she's Sylvie when she's a "hero". It's funny. And a little ridiculous.

[kittyhazelnut]

Loki is way much worse than Wanda

I absolutely agree but a lot of die-hard Loki stans refuse to accept that he might have done bad things 💀 I just feel like you can't hold Wanda accountable if you don't hold Loki accountable 😭

[silenceinternalmonologue]

me: in 2018 i lost my dear husband loki... 

tva!loki: QUIT TELLING EVERYONE I'M DEAD! 

me: sometimes i still hear his voice :(

[fortnite-loki]

For the slander fandom 😌

[shadow-turtle-234]

So... someone made a valid point about how most fandoms have an issue in babifying white characters (Venca, S*lvie, there were many more they listed, including Loki).

However, in the case of Loki, they also completely ignored context as established in prior movies - and when I try to explain that the two real crimes Loki should be held accountable for was the destruction of his own race as well as sparking Valks PTSD and provide the context that the OP missed, they decide to block me and not consider that there is context that explains Loki's actions - not excuse them.

[diamondcitydarlin]

I saw someone call ofmd the anti-thesis of the loki series and it makes me so mad that omfd shows just how easily companies could make good queer representation in shows, they just dont/wont

lol yeah OFMD was the show I thought Loki was going to be, tbh, what with all their talk of making him bisexual and genderfluid etc, and then the Lokius dynamic- well, yall know.

But like, especially for a title like Loki, making the most profit is the main goal and I don't get the impression that much of anyone working on it (Tom excluded) cared that much about the integrity of his character or the story itself to have defended going that direction with it. Investors, suits, execs are all too worried about the money, but yes, they are also aware that it behooves them to exploit fandoms, and thus we get the queerbait. It's more than enough for fandom to extrapolate on and generate free advertisement essentially, but it's not enough to challenge the views of homophobic investors and markets which most are just too protective of to challenge for any reason. And then, of course, they gaslight and pretend we were pulling from nothing so that their hands are completely washed.

But also, there are just a lot of creators/directors/showrunners out there that are intensely homophobic/transphobic/ableist themselves and have absolutely no interest in prioritizing queer stories at any point. They usually are the type hoping to corner a white cishet male audience (like themselves) but end up with a FANDOM that SHIPS and they hate us for it and make fun of us, etc. This was supposed to be their cishet male fantasy after all starring them as main character what are all these freaks doing here ?!?!?!

Anyway, it's really encouraging to see so many people getting into and latching on to OFMD because it's hopefully what knocks down the pitiful expectations we've been given. I hope it will also encourage fans/viewers to give more support to the creators that are actually out here doing this and not the ones that just keep dangling carrots for the sake of exploitation. That's not to say we should stop shipping things in shows that probably aren't going to make it canon, but the whole thing about holding out in impossible hope that MAAAYBE something, ONE thing will happen...? I hope those days are over, because everyone here deserves better than that and OFMD has shown that to be true without hesitation or apology.

[magpie-murder]

we can all agree that the mcu loki deleted scenes are good, right? which means that, logically, the show will become good if they just delete all the scenes :)

[kittyfandango]

There’s been a lot of speculation about whether the creators of the Loki show actually watched the first two Thor movies. They said they didn’t, then said they were joking...

We might never know for certain, but the most damning evidence for me, is that the show goes out of its way to blame Loki for anything it possibly can. Everything is Loki’s fault, to the point of making things up. I think it’s reasonable to say that the worst things Loki’s actually done were in Thor 1 (context aside). Would they really shy away from accusing Loki of attempted genocide if they knew? Or trying to kill Thor? Killing Laufey? I know Michael Waldron said he thought Odin killed Laufey (pretty clever since Odin was asleep at the time).

Someone knew enough about Thor 2 to include a couple of (badly interpreted) clips. But there’s nothing else.