#Loki Critical

[magpie-murder]

we can all agree that the mcu loki deleted scenes are good, right? which means that, logically, the show will become good if they just delete all the scenes :)

[avelera]

So I never really commented on the "Loki" show on here very much, even though I watched it, for a few reasons.

I found the first season visually beautiful but spiritually hollow and ultimately uninteresting. My connection to Loki was through his story as an Asgardian, his relationship with Thor and Odin and the others. I was prepared for the possibility that the show would focus elsewhere, by necessity, but I was always facing a similar uphill battle to liking it as I did the Winter Soldier show: the relationships I wanted to see more of (Steve/Bucky, Thor & Loki) weren't going to be there in favor of new side characters and my heart just wasn't really in it. But I gave it a chance.

The bigger issue was this: I fucking hate magical policing agencies as a plot point. Corporate organizations tasked to control time, or magic, or stop normal people from learning about magic, blah blah blah, I hate them. I find them immensely boring. Part of it is because I tried to write one once for NaNo in college! I understand the appeal! But they are just deeply, deeply boring to me as a concept. They are overplayed and tired and dull. Loki's TVA would have to have been something truly exceptional to win me over and then it was the whole point of the show and it wasn't exceptional, just the trope played straight and I just... wilted with disinterest.

I also hate mid-20th century aesthetics. Truly despise them. I hate the orange decor and the brown suits and the atomic era gigantic room-sized computers. It's kitchys and awful and I loathe it with my entire being. It repels me. So when the TVA had that aesthetic and the TVA was core to a story about a Norse god, you can perhaps begin to see the problem.

I loved Sylvie's actress. I loved the idea of Sylvie. I loathed the Sylvie plotline. Why don't we know more about what her life was like as a Loki? Did she have a relationship to the Asgardians ever? Why aren't Loki and Sylvie being constantly teased for being narcissists at best and incestuous at worst if they show any interest in each other? I loathed that romance, I found it gross and hollow and uninteresting and cheap. I was so glad when S2 seemed to drop interest in it.

Look, at a certain point, I just accepted that I'm not the target audience. It wasn't the Loki show I was hoping for, something more akin to Journey into Mystery for example. It barely acknowledged Loki's mythological roots, his actual magical abilities which on numerous occasions would have far outclassed the threats they faced with weird TVA technology, and just... look, it wasn't for me, a mythology buff. I just didn't like it or what it was going for.

This isn't to say it was bad! Just that it was absolutely stacked against my personal tastes in its aesthetic and story choices about 3/4 of the time.

But I did watch the whole thing. And I loved the visuals of the ending sequence in S2.

I hope this means if Loki returns, the door is open for a more magical, mythologically informed Loki. I hope he returns! I hope that just being on his magical time throne doesn't mean he's stuck there but that either his variants, or his ghost, or him puppeting his own variants or whatever can continue to interact with the timeline. I think it's such a magical mystical set up that it's very likely to be possible. it's magic! They can do anything!

But for the love of all the Norse gods, if I never see that hideous cliche TVA again it will be too soon. Sorry, Mobius, you were fun and charming and I loved seeing what the Lokius shippers cooked up, but I hate your work place so much it made me want to claw my own eyes out.

[monsters-and-macaws]

Astarion is just the next Loki. That was my thought from the beginning and the impression I have of the character and, more importantly, of the fandom, only reinforced that.

See the main difference there is Astarion isn’t a massively popular depiction of a very much existing god in a still existing religion (despite being not loyal to the mythos OR to the comics origin but yk), he’s just a massively irritating twink and could probably be played by the same guy.

I have several gripes with the MCU.

[ichabodcranemills]

I’m rewatching Loki s1 and ugh it’s so infuriating how this show fucked up. Season 1 wasn’t by any means perfect. It had some goofy dialogue and questionable editing choices, but it had balls. It was doing something genuinely interesting and new. There was sci-fi shenanigans and technobabble, but it respected its own internal logic. It cared about being pretty and fresh and entertaining. And then it was all gone!

Season two was all about that stupid Loom that made no sense, it put the TVA as the ones being right. That’s so incredibly chilling when put it in contrast with season 1 and see how awful and clearly wrong they were! Renslayer was such a fascinating character and Sylvie! She was the second protagonist! She had a voice and a purpose! Season 2 blotted both of them out completely. Not to mention how they allegedly made B-15 a more prominent character, while actually removing all of the agency she demonstrated to have in season one.

And it turned into this sad, boring, gray show. Because the endgame was to save the sad, boring, gray time police agency. It was so antithetical to what season one tried to do. And I’m still so, so frustrated about it.

[sufferthesea]

hey the loki show was still good so you are wrong

I'm glad you enjoyed the show and you're obviously the target audience for it, but I still didn't like how most of the content was handled and I didn't like Sylvie. Considering my anti-Sylvie and Loki critical posts were from 2+ years ago, you're not one of my followers; and since you sent this on anon, I'm guessing you're never going to see this (unless you're waiting for my reply).

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion (including thinking that I'm wrong) and I'm entitled to my opinion (including disliking Sylvie/the Sylvie x Loki ship, and the way the first season panned out; I've yet to see season two). I loved the first half of season one, but I personally think they botched it (except for a few fun characters/scenes). I think I just had different expectations for the show and was disappointed with the direction they took it. But I haven't talked about Loki (the character and the show) for almost two years (aside from the meme post I made that I'd written when s1 came out but only posted maybe a month ago), so idk why my critical post is so far up in the Loki/Sylvie/Marvel tag for you to find it!!

Anyway, I definitely like media that other people consider "bad" (I'll forever defend Morbius as the best gay romance of modern times) and I don't like a lot of media that other people consider "good." I'm glad you liked the show, tho! I hope the next seasons are just as good for you, and I'll try out season 2 to see if I like it any better. I'll probably just watch it anyway, since I love Loki and (most of) his variants.

Besides, season 1 did give us this scene ...

[aurorawest]

Plz i need someone to tell me im overreacting abt the loki finale. I haven't been this mad since this movie i saw five years ago in November.

I mean, idk exactly how you're reacting. It's normal to be mad about a piece of fiction where you really don't like the ending or choices that were made. Like, that is a completely normal thing, anon. I was mad at LOST for years (I still kind of am, ngl). I definitely have some anger toward the MCU, though it's outweighed by the grief I feel for what I see as its truly stellar implosion. So like, if you're just feeling angry, that's normal.

If you're harassing other fans, or trying to change their minds when they've given no indication that they're up for debate about this, or going on public rants about how stupid people are for liking it (public as in, tagging it to make sure fans see it), that's an overreaction. If you're losing sleep or getting so upset about it that it's affecting your day-to-day functioning, that's overreacting. Or even like, thinking about it so constantly that you're stuck in a semi-permanent enraged state. If you're doing that stuff, you should stop! It's not healthy for YOU, first and foremost.

[seluvian]

So I just watched the Loki S2 finale. I knew it was going to piss me off, and I was right. I just. I don't understand what Loki has done to be so hated by his writers that even within the bounds of his own show, he is absolutely barred from peace. Disallowed from joy. Unlovable.

In season 1, the writers told us that the only person a Loki could love is another Loki. Because, they seemed to insist, there is something so inherently wrong with Lokis that they are unlovable by anyone else, when it comes down to it. And in the end, they can't even manage that much.

Season 2, for me, was worse. They have Loki tearfully confess how scared he is of being alone again, they have him break himself to pieces to try and save the only people he loves, who love him. He spends centuries, maybe longer by the end of it all, essentially alone, trying and trying and trying to save this one single place where he's felt like a person and been treated like one for the first time. And for his dedication, for his loyalty, for his love, he gets to sit alone at the end of all things, holding the universe together and watching his own universe, his friends and loved ones, go on without him. That's his reward. An eternity of loneliness. That's his happy ending.

I just don't understand why Disney insists on making more Loki content if they hate him so much. I guess it's true. He always loses. And so do we.

[lokiinmediasideblog]

Loki rewatch on Bflix Thoughts

My main complaint about the Loki series other than the hyping up of genderfluid rep at interviews while there's none in the series, is that it's very rushed. Probably because they were trying to fit it into 6 episodes. Apparently it has 2 more seasons now. Hope the pacing gets better and that Marvel stops being a bitch about queerness. I love the cinematography and the musical score. I think that playing fucked up things happening to Loki as comedic plays into how susceptible we are to framing and propaganda, which is why I am not mad about it. It mirrors what we find out about the TVA. They are framed as the heroes keeping villains like Loki from wreaking havoc, but then we find out they are the reason Loki and everyone else can never change. And that they seem to target Loki variants more than any other. It introduces interesting concepts, and I like that pretty much every character on it is kinda shady but not irredeemable, not the boring noble heroes found elsewhere that I roll my eyes at. I like that most of them are both victims and perpetrators stuck in a cycle of systemic abuse. I am not a fan od some "just evil" antagonist that people that lack media literacy and think everything should be a PBS lesson advocate for.

[kittyfandango]

I watched Loki season 2. It’s probably some sort of self harm at this point

Was it better than season 1? Probably, yes.

Was it good? Eh… it had its moments. I’ll need some time to process exactly what I thought.

My biggest criticism is still that that man isn’t Loki. And the morality of the TVA is somehow now worse.

[valkyrieandstrangeridingaragorn]

If the story really was about "Self love" Loki would have stood up and told Sif she was wrong and that he doesn't have to be alone. Compare to how Loki picks himself up after Verity talks to him in Agent of Asgard

Not only that but he would have insisted on helping his variants in ep5. He would have tried to save Classic's life. He would have convinced Kid Loki to leave. Part of his purpose in the series should have been helping out his variants because they're part of him, which would include helping Sylvie as well - but not as a romance! More as a way to get her out of that mindset of vengeance and violence, like he tried to do with Thor in the first movie.

If the series was about self-love, he wouldn't have let the TVA and Mobius walk all over him, because boundaries are essential for self-love. He wouldn't have engaged in negative self-talk constantly because, contrary to popular belief, pride is very necessary and quite healthy actually and there is nothing wrong with Loki being proud of himself - it's not a contradiction and he can still be made responsible for his mistakes while he respects and loves himself.

The series had nothing to do with self-love, it's a show with the only purpose of destroying him and everything he ever stood up for so they could shape him into a bland, one-dimensional character that's easier to digest.

[magpie-murder]

Hey buddy, I too used to like Loki so much, he was my comfort character. Then I saw Ragnorak, where he was the butt of the joke and started to hate everything he was on.. I'll be very if he's done for good and left alone.

What's your opinion on the finale? I just simply read the plot on wiki.

i'm not watching (and will not watch— i'm boycotting disney+ out of support of palestine anyway) season 2, but i've been told about it so i do have some thoughts.

i think, as far as the show goes, it's by far not the worst ending they could have gone with. i feel that it's a mixed bag.

on one hand, i really enjoy seeing self-destruction in loki plotlines as a means to explore this very visceral and realistic grief. i've been saying for a little while that i would rather have had loki's story end at thanos' hands, because as horrific as it was and how much it upset me at the time, i think there's kind of a beautiful tragedy to it. especially in comparison to his treatment in the series.

on the other, i feel very bitter knowing that, after two seasons of a show which downplayed his trauma, made fun of his prior characterization (that cringe "i was so angry at odin and thor" dialogue), and demonized him for things he didn't do (i will stay mad about blaming him for frigga's death. that was not his fault lmao), he recieved an ending where he had to sacrifice his own comfort to protect his loved ones, and the world.

in theory, i ADORE this idea. i think it's extremely in-line with the stories i like to see from him for a character arc— learning to forgive the world for the way he was treated, and unlearning the (justifiably) defensive behavior that he used to defend himself which has only caused himself and his loved ones harm are both things i absolutely adore in a loki story.

however, it takes place in the finale of a show where he isn't really allowed to genuinely express his grief, or his trauma, or his remorse. obviously there could be a couple respectful scenes here and there that i magically have not seen, but the large majority of what i HAVE seen has been really condescending towards his character, and i feel that if there was a more sympathetic scene someone would have shown it to me by now in our discord server.

i ADORE tragedy stories. and i think this tragedy was pretty in-line with the purpose i believe he usually serves in fiction (characters are inherently storytelling devices, at the end of the day) so i think it's very bittersweet that something that emotional, and something that i love so much in theory, was a follow-up to a show in which the contents make me very uncomfortable.

that's just my two cents tho

[monathedefiant]

i just created a discord for the anti's who've got lots of opinions and just want to share them! if you're protective of your faves, do yourself and others a favor and dni. otherwise, come on down:

[chaoticace22]

do you know that thing when you open up tumblr and feel deep confusion?

ps. it's just a meme pls don't come after me

[esthara]

Vax getting out of the orb:

[valkyrieandstrangeridingaragorn]

Strange to hear about the Loki (TV) series having such staunch defence on other platforms because the reason I even came across it (other than in vague hearing) was because of a 300k+ liked video on tiktok slandering it in the captions. People on TikTok love Loki but they don’t particularly like the Loki series. Sylvie gets absolutely no clout on that site, Mobius only does if he’s shipped with Loki, none of the other new characters are talked about other than Kang. A lot of comments on edits that fake out TVA Loki with Sacred Timeline Loki (in particular, Avengers Loki or TDW Loki) have comments with thousands of likes that range from “any Loki is better than TVA Loki” “I miss Main Loki” “THIS is Loki not TVA Loki” etc etc. Interesting how platforms differ so much.

Oh that's good to know! I suppose it has something to do with the target audience of these sites. Reddit is mostly fanboy territory and at least in the main MCU sub, any posts about Loki were received with a little anger, like they felt uncomfortable talking about him. But now they all seem to like him so much post-series, the retcon has turned him into a much more digestible character for them.

Whereas on here many of us are upset because we're old fans and we liked who he was in the past, this new retcon feels like he's someone else completely. I'll give it to them though, they retconned the whole thing so well that while we're left with subtext and gestures and certain looks, the series lovers have actual lines of Loki saying he betrayed everyone... we're at a disadvantage now.

I'm glad the fans on TikTok can see through that though. 300k views, huh? Holy crap... 😂

[kittyfandango]

I was surprised that Loki’s final line in the series was a callback to Thor 1. Like had one of the writers actually bothered to watch it?

But no, that was apparently Tom Hiddleston’s own idea.

one of marvel’s biggest issues is that writers/directors are just constantly writing ooc fanfic of each other’s work instead of using it as a foundation to continue a collaborative fictional universe off of. like. character development should matter. a character shouldn’t have a different personality in every single appearance. major plot points established by other installments shouldn’t be ignored. idk man.