#LoK meta

[zuko-always-lies]

Suyin Beifong is such a weird character narratively

In many ways, she's the weirdest character in ATLA or LoK in her place in the story, considering her actions and beliefs. Let's just walk through everything.

Suyin got herself involved in criminal activities and street gangs as a kid and helped rob stuff. Then she scarred Lin when Lin tried to arrest her for that. And the fallout from that is implied to have led to Toph retiring.

After that, Suyin was sent to live with her (extremely wealthy) grandparents. After a while, she left them and began traveling the world and trying out various things, including being part of a traveling circus, living in a sandbender commune, and joining the crew of a pirate ship. Note that pirates rob and kill people. Note also that Suyin seems to have felt just about zero remorse for any of the above, and expected and demanded that Lin forgive her for everything without getting an apology.

Eventually, Suyin had had enough of all the traveling and robbing and killing and circus performing, so she used her vast, vast family wealth and bought a plot of land to build her own city on.

Zaofu seems to be essentially a Beifong family dictatorship defined by Suyin's ideological beliefs. As far as I can tell, the guiding principles of the city are "progress," "modernity," harmony, order, and control. After all, as Suyin says "Thanks to Aiwei, there are no secrets in our city," and she evidentially likes that a lot. The degree to which Suyin values absolute control over her city can also be seen in how incredibly outraged she gets when Kuvira, Baatar Jr., and some other citizens decide to leave on their own initiative. Her anger at Aiwei's betrayal ("I want you to hunt down Aiwei and bring him back to me") also fits the same pattern. Interestingly, Kuvira always claims to have gotten 90% of her fascist ideology from Suyin and Zaofu, and I actually think she was telling the truth, that Zaofu was a city organized on proto-fascist principles and Kuvira merely applied its principles to the wider Earth Kingdom.

Now perhaps we should turn to Suyin's relationship with Kuvira, which always seems very odd to me. Suyin took Kuvira in when Kuvira was a young child and trained her and claims "Kuvira was like a daughter to me." Yet Suyin never seems to really treat Kuvira like a daughter when the two interact on screen, nor do Suyin's children seem to see Kuvira as a sister. Notably, when Suyin introduces her family to Korra, she doesn't include Kuvira, nor is Kuvira invited to the dinners with Team Avatar. It's all very weird.

Anyways, Korra first arrives at Zaofu, Suyin seems to expect her, the Avatar, to stay in Zaofu relatively permanently to personally tutor Opal in airbending. The idea that Korra has other important responsibilities which don't involve personally serving Suyin's interests doesn't seem to cross Suyin's mind. We also find that Suyin is sheltering Varrick and Zhu Li, awful, highly amoral criminals, from justice since they're useful. On the plus side, Suyin is willing to personally teach Korra and even Bolin metalbending. She even eventually offers an apology to Lin for her behavior when younger, an something which helps reconciles the siblings. Suyin even allows Opal to leave for the Northern Air Temple.

Then the Red Lotus attacks, Suyin helps drive them off, etc. Everyone realizes that the Red Lotus had inside help, Suyin uses Aiwei the lie detector to search for the traitor, it turns out Aiwei was the traitor, he flees, Suyin is suitably outraged, and so on. Then we get to something "interesting": Korra wants Team Avatar to go after Aiwei, Lin (correctly) points out that this is way too dangerous, and then Suyin lies to and deceives Lin to make her think Suyin agrees with her and go bed, before personally sending Team Avatar after Aiwei anyways, something which goes very poorly. Suyin and Lin have barely reconciled, and practically first thing Suyin does is lie to and manipulate her sister. And yeah, Lin is pretty pissed that Suyin "stabbed her in the back" next time they talk, but essentially the entire thing blows over with zero consequences for Suyin.

The next thing that Suyin really does in the narrative is lead Zaofu's security forces to help Korra, Team Avatar, Lin, and Tonraq take on the Red Lotus and rescue the airbenders. This is objectively a good thing, but it's also interesting, considering what we later learn about Suyin's isolationist beliefs. However, it's worth pointing out that Suyin had several personal motives for her actions here: Her daughter Opal is one of the airbending hostages, Lin her sister is evidentially going to be involved, and the Red Lotus had the temerity to attack Zaofu and Suyin is probably pretty pissed about that. Without these "ulterior" motives, I doubt Suyin would have been willing to get involved. Then Suyin helps everyone else defeat the Red Lotus, but doesn't really do anything too interesting as part of that. Cut to Book 4.

What Suyin mostly does through Book 4 is oppose Kuvira, but we still get some interesting material as part of that. We learn that Suyin was asked to help stabilize the Earth Kingdom between books, but she refused. Considering how the children she raised ended up handling things, it's very likely that Suyin would have ended up becoming a (bigger) fascist dictator, so Suyin's refusal is also probably a good thing, even though refusing to provide aid to a country in anarchy probably isn't the best thing.

Kuvira and Baatar Jr. disagree about this, and they leave for Ba Sing Se with "Varrick, my security force, and a few of Zaofu's wealthiest citizens." Suyin is so outraged she responds by declaring them (or at least Kuvira) exiles, forever banished from Zaofu. We also see the start of a couple tendencies which will reoccur in the season. These are Suyin blaming Kuvira for Baatar Jr.'s bad actions and Zaofu's citizens being pretty OK with Kuvira and her actions, while only the Beifong family hates her.

Next time we see Suyin, it's at Prince Wu's "coronation." Normally Suyin would absolutely despise a royal idiot like Wu, but she hates Kuvira so much that she's willing to join the other world leaders in imposing him on the Earth Kingdom (as a useful lackey?). After that doesn't work out, Suyin tries to convince Kuvira to step down, something which goes poorly.

A couple episodes later, Kuvira shows up with an army and demands Suyin surrender Zaofu, something that Suyin understandably is pissed about. Mutual recriminations result, Suyin again blames Kuvira for all the actions of her fascist dictator son, and so on. Korra tries to continue negotiations, but Suyin has already left to try to assassinate Kuvira in her sleep. That's maybe a reasonable reaction to what Kuvira is doing, but it's an odd way to treat someone who is "like a daughter" to you. There's also evidence that Suyin doesn't really get that people are legitimately loyal to Kuvira and legitimately believe in her ideology, or that Baatar Jr. agrees with Kuvira, is equally complicit in her policies, and would continue leading the Earth Empire in its conquests if she died. Anyways, Suyin's attempt fails, she ends up captured, and ultimately she's forced to watch Zaofu's citizenry bow to Kuvira and cheer her. Although there was still coercion involved, the fact that only the Beifong family refused to bow is still evidence that the "Metal Clan's" general population has a reasonably positive view of Kuvira and her ideology and the only reason the Beifongs don't is because they have a personal vendetta against her. After all, Kuvira's ideology derives from Zaofu.

After that, Suyin doesn't do too much, narratively. She escapes with her family from Kuvira and Baatar Jr.'s prison for them and she opposes Kuvira's attempt to conquer Republic City. Again, that's objectively a good thing, but Suyin opposing it also makes perfect sense given the depth of her vendetta against Kuvira. The only interesting thing is that Suyin instantly forgives her fascist dictator son and doesn't hold him the least bit accountable for his actions, while continuing to hate Kuvira after she apologizes. Again, more evidence that Suyin does not, in fact, view Kuvira as a part of the family.

Overall, Suyin is narratively very weird. Based on all that I've discussed above, it's clear that she's very much not a good person, nor is she particularly likeable. She basically runs a mini-fascist dictatorship, after all. Yet Suyin not only gets a massive amount of narrative attention (it seems like some of the writers really liked the idea of her and her family), but is always an ally of the protagonists and is never held truly accountable for her actions. Considering who she is as a person and her backstory, having her be an antagonist or villain would in many ways make more sense, but that's not the route they went.

TLoK was really into giving its antagonists half-assed redemption/quasi-redemption arcs (Tarrlok, Desna and Eska, Varrick, Zhu Li, Tahno, Zaheer, Hiroshi Sato, Baatar Jr., Kuvira), but Suyin doesn't really fit into this paradigm, since she was never an antagonist in the first place. The only characters across ATLA and TLoK who really remind me of her, in terms of being bad people who are never really called out by the narrative, are King Bumi, Varrick and Zhu Li, and Iroh.

Of these, King Bumi is a complete dick, but he's a much more minor character than Suyin and gets away with a lot due to being a "comedy" character.

Varrick is an absolutely awful person, but the narrative lets him avoid consequences for that since he's likeable and funny. Zhu Li really just tags along with his narrative.

Iroh is morally grey at best in the present and morally black in the past, but again the narrative avoids calling him out about it since he's funny and likeable and nice to the most audience sympathetic character, Zuko. The narrative even starts painting him as perfect and a saint after a certain point, something which continued in TLoK.

Suyin isn't like any of them. She's not a comedy character. She's not funny or likeable. And it's not like the narrative paints her as perfect, like it does for Iroh. She sometimes suffers the consequences of her actions, and I think she's supposed to come off as significantly flawed. On the other hand, the narrative never really calls out Suyin for any of her terrible behavior, bad actions, or general bullshit. She's never held truly accountable in any way for anything. It's all very odd.

[im--never--happy]

One of the things about LOK that makes no sense is the United Forces army. Like what the actual fuck? Is this supposed to be a UN type situation of intergovernmental peacekeeping troops?? Because that’s the only way it would make sense to have fucking prince of the fire nation, General Iroh be leading the army. Also Bumi is not from the United Republic. Also ALSO the fact that there’s a whole ass United Republic and the show only ever talks about or shows Republic City. Like what?? That makes no motherfucking sense I’m sorry

[jamesunderwater]

Avatar & Ming-Hua's Psychic Bending

I watched a yt video essay recently in which the creator pointed out that one of the rules of bending in the world of Avatar is that it is related to the movement of the body, because the bending styles are tied to the martial arts. He references this in relation to a scene in Aang's finale fight with Ozai, because in that scene, Ozai breaks that rule.

When Ozai conjures the ball of fire out of thin air and without moving his body, it shows the audience how powerful Sozin's comet has made him. I'll let you watch the video for more on how great the storytelling is in this fight scene.

The next time we see someone breaking this bending rule is in the first season of The Legend of Korra, with Yakone's ability to psychically blood-bend. Tarrlok literally describes his father's ability as just that -- psychic -- when he says that Noatak, "was a prodigy, mastering my father's psychic blood-bending technique by the time he was fourteen" (S1E11).

If I am not mistaken, this is the only time in the world of Avatar someone is described as having any sort of "psychic" ability, and it is described as such because Yakone and Noatak were able to blood-bend using their minds. This is even more impressive than Ozai's breaking of the rule in AtLA -- Ozai required the strength of the comet, where Yakone and Noatak could practice their ability without even the full moon, and Ozai still used his hand to conjure the fireball, which is not quite the same thing as using his mind.

A closer firebending equivalent to this, I think, would be combustion-bending. However, because there is much more mystery in combustion-bending, and because it is its own sub-type of bending rather than being a rare ability only some benders within a certain form of bending have, I am not going to include it in my overall point here.

So, this brings me to Ming-Hua. Anyone watching the show clearly knows that Ming-Hua is an incredible bender. She is a double upper amputee and uses her waterbending as her arms, and is also obviously a Master waterbender. But what occurred to me in re-watching LoK after having watched the youtube video above, is that Ming-Hua also breaks this rule of Avatar.

Think of all the other waterbenders that have been on either of the two shows until this point. The use of their arms is essential to every move of waterbending they make. The only waterbenders shown bending without using their arms were Yakone and Noatak, because they were using their minds -- and even then, neither of them were shown waterbending without the use of their arms. It seemed their psychic bending was limited only to blood-bending.

And then comes in Ming-Hua, a member of a group of benders (and one once-non-bender) who each have an exceptional bending ability. And I think it's easy for viewers to see Ming-Hua's bending as exceptional only because she has found a way to waterbend despite being disabled, and not think of it any further. But Ming-Hua being disabled is not what makes her exceptional. What makes her exceptional is the fact that she has the ability to psychically waterbend, which we have seen no one have before. Of course, we don't know if she purposefully developed this ability because of her disability, if she was born with the ability, if her waterbending manifested psychically because she is a double amputee -- we don't even know if she was born an amputee or if she was disabled for some reason during life, so it's really impossible to say why she is a psychic bender. But I think it is a fact to say that she is a one. Which is...SO BADASS! (Imagine I said this in an overly-excited Bolin voice.)

Consider the scene above: Kya has just blasted Ming-Hua off the side of the temple with a rush of water. Ming-Hua cannot grab onto something as she's falling, and yet she doesn't fall. Which means she managed to keep all of her focus on maintaining the structure of her water-arms as she was blasted and fell over the side, and then used her mind to slowly pull all of the water to her as she also concentrated on keeping her water-arms together in a strong enough form that they could hold her entire body up as it was hanging over a ledge, and then at the same time, she created this spider-form out of the water she'd pulled toward her, which she then used to pull herself up and back over the side of the temple.

And she did all of that. With her mind.

Yakone and Noatak blood-bend with their minds when they want to, but it's the same way that any other able-bodied bender only has to concentrate on bending when they want to. It's a luxury. Ming-Hua, on the other hand, uses her bending as, essentially, an accessibility tool, which means that she is never not psychically bending.

This woman is more powerful than anyone gives her credit for.

(As a final note, I don't think it's a coincidence that the two true instances we have of psychic bending are from waterbenders, considering water is well-known as the element tied to psychic abilities.)

I would love to hear your thoughts on psychic bending in Avatar and the badassery of Ming-Hua!

[biconickyoshi]

9 years ago today, I watched the LoK finale on my little Google Chromebook alone in my bedroom. I was 17 and had just finished my first semester of my senior year of high school.

I had known I was not straight since I was 8-9 years old, but was ashamed of it - the Bible Belt is not a friendly environment for anyone who doesn’t fit into the cishet mold. I’d resolved to never reveal that part of myself to anyone.

I wouldn’t say that I was an open, active Korrasami shipper before this point (due to internalized homophobia). However, one of my guilty pleasures was reading Korrasami fanfiction, and I had keenly noticed the change in the way they behaved around one another starting in S3 - the way they grew closer and more comfortable around each other, bonding over their failed romances with Mako, the way they looked out for one each other, Asami taking Korra’s hand and comforting her after she helps her get ready for Jinora’s ceremony, Korra only writing to Asami during the three years she was gone…

But there was no way in a million years that they would ever actually make them canon. Right?

When Korra and Asami walked into the spirit portal, I was shocked, but also immediately in denial. I told myself, “Nope, they’re just friends :)”

But deep down, I knew that their ending was romantic. Friends don’t look at each other like that! And they even played a tiny bit of “The Avatar’s Love” at the very end! I’m an AtLA superfan! I noticed that!

Then, Bryan Konietzko made a tumblr post clarifying that yes, Korrasami was canon whether we liked it or not. And once again, I was dumbfounded. A franchise that I had loved so much since childhood had just done something groundbreaking. For the first time ever, I saw people like me portrayed in media I loved. And when I read Bryan’s words about how important queer representation like this is, it clicked for me.

From that point forward, I started to acknowledge my queer identity. I went to college, became a vocal ally, and eventually started coming out to family and friends. Today, I’m not only out in my personal life, but also my professional life.

I’m so, so proud of my identity. And it’s all thanks to what Bryke and the LoK team fought to give us nearly a decade ago.

Happy 9 year anniversary, Korrasami. 💙❤️

[astrid-goes-for-a-spin]

After a decade of consideration I have finally realized what Toph’s adulthood should’ve been

She should’ve traveled the world by herself, teaching metalbending wherever she went and living off hospitality. No roots, no school, no police, just the open road and seeing her friends when she can

[the-hopefulpenguin]

The Problem of the Earth Kingdom

I’ve been doing some more thinking about Avatar geopolitics and I’ve settled upon a bit of an overarching theory - that the Earth Kingdom is the seat of every war in the last two centuries plus of the Avatar universe.

This is not to say that the Fire Nation, in particular, does not bear culpability for the Hundred Year War; they absolutely do; but rather that the geopolitical problem posed by the Earth Kingdom is one which policymakers have grappled with throughout the shows and books, to limited success. In brief, it is this: a strong Earth Kingdom is too powerful; a weak one is too unstable. As a result, policymakers in the Caldera, Republic City, the Water Tribes, and the White Lotus have struggled to find an effective balance - and repeatedly failed to do so.

To prove this, I would like to do give a history of major conflicts in Avatar and why they link back to this central problem of the Earth Kingdom.

THE PLATINUM KING Our first piece of evidence is the Platinum Affair and subsequent rule of Earth King Feishan in the late 5th and early 4th centuries BG. These inferences are drawn noting that we have relatively limited textual evidence from the period.

The inciting incident was a prolonged civil war in the Earth Kingdom, between the armies of the Earth King Feishan and a General Nong. The origins of the conflict are unclear, but we do know that it was protracted, with neither side seeking a decisive engagement. This had a negative impact on trade and potentially international stability.

As a consequence, the Water Tribes and Fire Nation began to fund General Nong in secret - the intention appearing to be to have him win and end the fighting, with a friendly regime in Ba Sing Se. In other words, foreign powers refused to tolerate instability in the Earth Kingdom, and so intervened.

Unfortunately for Agna Q’ela and the Caldera, Feishan ultimately won the civil war at the Battle of Llamapaca’s Crossing, which revealed the funding scheme and foreign culpability in it. The Earth King responded by embargoing on the Fire Nation and Earth Kingdom, with only four cities permitted to handle a limited throughput of foreign trade. Internationally mobile elites (the shang merchants) in these cities, seeking to break free of the Earth King, attempted to develop new forms of bending - risking international stability in the process. Feishan also considered invasions of the other powers due to cooled relations. This is an example of how a strong, centralised Earth Kingdom provoked resistance from its periphery and fear abroad.

THE FIFTH NATION Our next piece of evidence is centred on the late fourth and early third centuries BG - the rise and fall of the Fifth Nation, a major group of corsairs operating off the southern coast of the Earth Kingdom.

Our textual sources on their rise to prominence are somewhat patchy. We know that there was a long history of sea-banditry in the region, but by the time of Yangchen, they were powerful enough for the Avatar to personally sign a treaty with them to secure an agreement not to attack the coasts of the Earth Kingdom. It is probable that their willingness to sign a deal with Yangchen was as much to do with fear of a united Earth Kingdom under Feishan as it was terror of the Avatar. After all, Yangchen’s treaty makes no mention of at-sea piracy; only that which directly targets the Earth Kingdom.

However, the end of the Feishan dynasty - it is unclear if this is the death of Feishan himself, or an immediate successor - led to the Wars of Secrets and Daggers, a succession of assassinations and palace coups from at least 306-296 BG which killed at least seven royals. This chaos was exploited by the Yellow Neck Uprising and led to rising status among regional magnates such as Jianzhu - who ultimately crushed the Yellow Necks at the Battle of Zhulu Pass. In short, the late fourth century BG saw a complete collapse in central Earth Kingdom authority.

The Fifth Nation was quick to exploit this, defeating the Earth Kingdom fleet in open combat and establishing maritime hegemony in the Eastern Ocean. They failed to expand into the Mo Ce, largely due to the actions of the Fire Nation, who stepped up their patrols to counter the pirate threat. The Fifth Nation was ultimately destroyed by Avatar Kyoshi and an aggressive maritime counterinsurgency campaign waged by the Fire Nation. In other words, the failure of Earth Kingdom stability exported a severe maritime security challenge which required sustained Calderan intervention to resolve.

SOZIN’S FEAR, OZAI’S FOLLY I've presented my argument about the origins of the Hundred Year War previously, so I will not dwell on it - the above article is a richer explanation. In brief, however, from the crisis of the fourth century, the Earth Kingdom began to enjoy a slow revival in fortunes through the third and second centuries - largely due to the actions of Avatar Kyoshi. By the first century BG, it is plausible that Ba Sing Se’s authority was once more reaching into its maritime periphery along the Mo Ce coastline.

For a Fire Nation used to trading privileges and political influence in this part of the Earth Kingdom, this could be seen as an immediate infringement. Moreover, the example of Feishan suggests that a united Earth Kingdom could threaten the core interests - perhaps even sovereignty - of the Fire Nation. Sozin therefore invaded the Earth Kingdom not to exterminate it, but to secure Fire Nation interests in the periphery and limit the Earth Kingdom’s united power.

Unfortunately for the Fire Nation, the Earth Kingdom proved more cohesive than they had assessed, and the war ground on for decades until Ozai, a strategically inept Fire Lord, mobilised a big enough coalition against him to end in a defeat for the Fire Nation - one actively enabled by the Avatar.

SWORD OF THE CALDERA But for the Fire Nation, defeat in war led to victory in peace. Fire Lord Zuko swiftly renounced overt rule on the continent, but defended Fire Nation privileges all the same - deploying an army to the continent in 101 AG to face down a royal force under Earth King Kuei. This crisis was settled by Avatar Aang, and led to the creation of the United Republic, carved out of Earth Kingdom territory along the Mo Ce periphery.

But, as discussed elsewhere, the United Republic was only nominally independent. In practice, it was heavily tied into the cultural and economic world of the Fire Nation - to the point that the commander-in-chief of its military is a Fire Nation prince. It is unclear if Zuko personally intended this, but it is a defensible position to argue that the United Republic was created to weaken the Earth Kingdom.

And weaken it, it most likely did. By the late 2nd century AG, the Earth Kingdom is experiencing a serious domestic crisis, on the order of the crisis of the late fourth/early third century BG. Even the movement of tax revenues to Ba Sing Se is seriously in doubt due to bandit activity, while local magnates such as Suyin of Zaofu wield immense power. It is probable that the United Republic played a role in this - it deprived the Earth Kingdom of much of the lucrative Mo Ce trade, and served as a constant demonstration of Ba Sing Se’s weakness.

This was all well and good for the Fire Nation and other international actors, who had reason to fear a strong Earth Kingdom. But the situation spiralled out of control with the assassination of Queen Hou-Ting, and an enfeebled Earth Kingdom which did not pose a foreign threat collapsed into anarchy.

UNITY & DISASTER Clearly, something had to be done - instability in the Earth Kingdom threatened trading relations and fostered transnational threats such as the Red Lotus. The international community was unwilling to deploy their own troops into the Earth Kingdom to restore order, so; much like with General Nong centuries earlier; they selected a proxy to do it for them: Kuvira.

The global strategic intent seems clear. Prince Wu was a United Republic-friendly candidate for the throne. Kuvira, legally empowered and supported with money and weapons, would re-unite the Earth Kingdom. She would then step aside and let Wu take the throne, where he would reign over a stabilised but non-threatening Earth Kingdom.

Unfortunately for this plan, Kuvira refused to hand over power, instead forming the revanchist Earth Empire and setting her sights on conquering the United Republic. This was not megalomania but rather geopolitics; for the Earth Kingdom to be strong, the Fire Nation-backed intrusion on the Mo Ce periphery must be repulsed. There are certainly shades of Feishan’s embargo policy to be found in Kuvira’s approach. Kuvira was, however, subsequently defeated by the Avatar and the United Forces, ending the immediate territorial threat to the United Republic.

RUINS OF THE EMPIRE In light of this challenge, the policy approach changed - the Earth Kingdom would be abolished, and instead be broken up into a set of independent, democratic states. On the surface, this resolves the too strong/too unstable paradox which plagued foreign policy calculations for centuries. In practice, it is highly likely to lead to further violence.

There is little tradition of local democracy in the Earth Kingdom, but extensive examples of military magnates and warlords assuming control in the absence of centralised authority. The aftermath of Kuvira’s conquests, as we see in Ruins of the Empire, left substantial stockpiles of sophisticated weapons available. The division of a large, multi-ethnic empire into smaller states is a difficult process likely to lead to grievance and dissent. And all this is not to mention the threat of spirit vine weapon proliferation.

The future of the Earth Kingdom, far from looking like a democratic paradise, probably involves a chaotic mixture of shaky democracies and outright autocracies vying for position. If any one of the successor states can gain enough power, they may well attempt to follow Kuvira, and Chin, and Feishan, in consolidating imperial rule over the whole Earth Kingdom.

For foreign powers, then, far from solving anything with this new step, they have simply fired the starting pistol on the latest round of Earth Kingdom instability - which is likely, in the best case, to generate transborder threats requiring action; and in the worst case, lead to the consolidation of the Earth Kingdom behind a new, revanchist leader, and the outbreak of another major conventional war.

[sanrielle]

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but I noticed something interesting at the beginning of the first Kyoshi novel (no spoilers in this screenie):

[Text in image reads: Earth, Fire, Air, Water, and then Earth again, an order as unchanging as the seasons. A process stretching back nearly a thousand generations before Kuruk, and one that would hopefully continue for a thousand more.]

Now, I've always been under the impression that it's very possible--and even likely--that there have been more Harmonic Convergences than just during Wan and Korra's eras. Part of this stems from what Roku said in AtLA:

"I've learned the elements a thousand times in a thousand lifetimes."

However, that could easily be written off as exaggeration or Roku just making shit up for dramatic effect lol. BUT the above line in the Kyoshi novel comes directly from the internal monologue of a reliable Air Nomad leader. And it seems to heavily imply that the Avatar cycle has been recorded with enough dedication for them to have a general idea how many Avatars there have been.

I think this line can be interpreted in one of two ways:

1. 'Generations' is referring to normal people, AKA the roughly 20-30 years between a person's birth and the birth of their first child. A thousand generations would then be 20,000-30,000 years.

2. The word is used in a more figurative sense, marking each Avatar as a 'generation' in the cycle. Even with the extremely conservative estimate that Avatars live--on average--50 years, that would be 50,000 years between Wan and Korra. It could easily be double that, considering how long Kyoshi lived.

Basically, if we take this at face value, that means there has been at least one extra Harmonic Convergence between Wan and Korra, but as many as eight or nine. And I see no reason, canonically/lore-wise, that it can't be true. Vaatu remained imprisoned in the Tree of Time until Unalaq released him. In fact, it's entirely possible that most people in the AtLA world had no idea anything unusual was happening during previous HCs.

If my math is horribly wrong, someone please tell me nicely 😭😅

[novaae]

bumi isnt a himbo

may i just say i hate it when people call bumi a himbo and while i know they're doing it out of the simple characterisation of a side character, it always just irks me

apart from izumi, whose position is inherited, bumi is the guy with the most successful career out of the gaang kids, with the most important career in matters of impact on the world

(lin fans do not bring up that nepobaby here, i appreciate her career but try telling me a police chief is a more important job than being a naval commander. ignore that lok dragged her into the korra shenanigans, im talking strictly about her career)

how many international economy altering trade shipments, rebellions and diplomatic journeys do you think this retired commander has handled?

he is the smartest man in any room he walks into, like you tell me that a cop who was dumber than a guy who probably has head trauma from growing up on streets and a monk who's book smart and a hippie is smarter than him. try telling me that.

he is not a himbo, he is incredibly smart and strategical, he is important on a global scale (by his own worth mind you if literally his own dads followers didnt know about him) and he is incredibly handsome and witty and has a sense of humor that can impress an 8yo girl mind you, he is selfless for a shitty family, he is brave, he is amazing.

tldr; he is perfect and making him a himbo erases all and any nuance his character has.

[btheleaf]

wait i saw your tags and hmmm,,, do you think bumi and kya didnt know about jinora? pls tell me more

I'm on my "Tenzin, Bumi, and Kya didn't actually get along until book 2" bullshit right now. 😩

I'm just thinking about the dynamics of Bumi and Kya laughing together at the dinner at the north pole and the way Tenzin looks so pissed off. The way he feels the need to tell Kya, "I'm not scared of you... any more." These three have NEVER worked through their childhood power dynamics. They haven't really talked to each other as they've grown older.

I'm also imagining Bumi helping Lin deal with the Linzin breakup, and neither of them understand why Tenzin just up and leaves ATI for months and months. Tenzin comes back with Pema, and Bumi finds out how old she is and... the next time he has Tenzin alone, they argue big time.

They dont reconcile for a while, and Tenzin only tells Katara about Jinora. He's still so mad about his and Bumi's argument, Tenzin assumes that Kya is on Bumi's side of the issue because that's the way it always was when they were kids; Bumi and Kya together, with Tenzin singled out. Tenzin doesn't let it slip to his family until after Ikki is born that the acolytes pressured him into having kids that Lin didn't want with him.

[balanceoflightanddark]

What if the avatar spirit was the spirit of light/peace/yang and darkness/chaos/yin at the same time and it fuses with Wan?

Hmmm...well, it definitely would be a step up from the "light=good" "dark=evil" dynamics in The Legend of Korra proper. Not to mention bringing it back to the original roots of yang and yin needing each other to maintain balance from the cultures that the series is supposed to take inspiration from.

It's certainly an interesting concept to be certain and how it illustrates how the Avatar is capable of both preserving peace and committing destruction at the same time. Something that was right in the original show with the Avatar state, particularly with the Siege of the North and La's rampage being empowered by Aang.

If we're applying it to The Legend of Korra, it also shows that Korra can be just as much a force for good as she can be a destructive force. Don't get me wrong, she does want to do the right thing and fulfill the role of the Avatar. But her upbringing gave her a pretty damn skewered view of what "justice" is. I mean, when you're raised in a compound being taught to master three of the four bending arts at a very young age (something that is considered to be rather unusual in the franchise) to the point her social skills weren't exactly up to par when she arrives in Republic City, this resulted in...

...yeah.

Please note that this isn't smearing against Korra. This is just pointing out how you shouldn't raise a kid to solve everything with her fists and then throw her into situations where that's the wrong thing to do.

But getting back to the point, the Avatar Spirit being both a fusion of Raava and Vaatu would again be an extension of this dynamic between one's good and evil. And how essentially you can't have one without the other. Like, take Raava for example. Raava can be taken as an embodiment of light, peace, harmony, and order. All of which can be considered positive. But at the same time, there are times where ultimately you do need to take a stand and fight for what you believe in. Which is something Aang learned while learning Earthbending, about how you can't always run and eventually you need to stand and fight.

Vaatu is the opposite. He is the embodiment of darkness, chaos, and conflict. Yet while those concepts are considered to be destructive, sometimes you do need to throw hands when worst comes to worst. About how sometimes you need to upend the status quo in order to ensure a better future. Something that the ragtag Gaang from ATLA embodied by going up against the dominating Fire Nation. That being said, you can take things too far in that direction to the point where you start to hurt the people you're supposed to protect for the sake of the greater good, which is one of the core unifying aspects of the villains in The Legend of Korra.

Again, that's why both yin and yang need each other to maintain harmony. One without the other would lead to disaster since they would be pushed into one particular extreme. Which is what happened in Book 1 of ATLA when Tui was killed leading to the whole world being thrown into chaos. So while I can certainly see why Raava was considered the "good" half of the two (maybe even from an in-universe perception since what Raava stands for would be more in line with what the Avatar's core beliefs are supposed to be), it would make a lot more sense if Vaatu wasn't exactly demonized and treated as a rampaging monster but more treated as a necessary part of the Avatar Spirit, even if he can be intimidating at times.

As for how it would go for Wan himself, I could see him struggling with handling these two conflicting ideals. Especially since he's supposed to be the very first Avatar. Which could be the core of his arc, trying to find some kind of balance between the two extremes. Like he might at first be more intimidated by the Vaatu aspect of the Avatar Spirit, but overtime recognizes that it is an integral part of how it works. Particularly if he recognizes that by tapping into the Raava half, he's becoming more unwavering, distant, or controlling by leaning into one extreme as opposed to the other. And how for the Avatar Spirit to be truly whole, he needs to embrace both halves instead of the one.

Bringing it all back to the overarching theme of Balance which the series is all about.

[likealittleheartbeat]

A lot of the discourse around Aang’s parenting comes from taking what is said in LoK at face value because we so easily accept the facile and Freudian explanation of parenting problems for human (and character) development. When the siblings bickered and complained or defended their relationships to their father, the fandom’s reaction was to dissect the accuracy of their statements—was Aang the paragon of parenting we hoped a pacifist hero could be? Was he a more complex and flawed parent and human, the kind of imperfection his pacifism was defending? It’s easy to get wrapped up in these arguments because of how much Western society has been taught to believe parenting matters within its idolization of the nuclear family unit. Of course, Aang was raised outside of this kind of family structure, which is perhaps our first clue that the show might be approaching something outside of the syllogism of parental blame that the characters are debating.

LoK is less interested in questions of parenting techniques than in questions of expectations—yes, the ones we have for our children—but much more importantly the ones we have for ourselves. (In fact, it emphasizes the one’s we have for ourselves are what lead to what one expects and demands of younger generations). If we’re wise, we won’t wonder whose right in the debate between Bumi, Kya, and Tenzin, but why they’re debating at all. They, like Korra, have grown up in the shadow of an icon, and, independent of whatever parenting techniques they experienced have to deal with this fact in ways shaped by their unique personalities, abilities, and encounters with the rest of the world. Their arguments are reactions to the swelling pressure of the expectations they’ve taken on or keep guarding against. In some ways it’s similar to Aang’s challenge in the original series: how to represent his culture and maintain one’s own individuality at the same time. Yet, now, instead of the weight and rigidity of imperial persecution, this generation must deal with the abundance of power and freedom they’ve been given. How do they accept and move beyond that power in order to find connections to the reality of the present rather than their glorified inheritance? This isn’t a psychological problem good parenting can resolve. The world is wider than the attachments to our parents and the shadows we grow up in.

[zuko-always-lies]

Legend of Korra and the incredibly long season finales

One flaw which really strikes me about TLoK is that the season finales were all far too long. This is a point which is easier to understand if we talk about ATLA first. ATLA had two 20 and one 21 episode season finales:

Book 1: Water. The season finale was two ("The Siege of the North Part 1 and 2") or at most three (if we count "The Waterbending Master") episodes long, for 10% or at most 15% of the season's runtime. I really don't think we should we should count "The Waterbending Master," though. It builds toward the series finale, but it's mostly it's own thing with its own main plot.

Book 2: Earth. The season finale was two episodes ("The Guru" and "The Crossroads of Destiny"), for a total of 10% of the season's runtime. You could argue that "Lake Laogai" and "The Earth King" are also parts of the finale, but they're really not. The main antagonist of the finale, Azula, doesn't even show up until the end of "The Earth King."

Book 3: Fire. The season (and series) finale was "Sozin's Comet," with a total of four episodes. That amounts to 19% of the season's runtime, but this is a series finale. That being said, I do personally feel like "Sozin's Comet" is already too long and not organically connected and that some of the stuff which happens there should have happened earlier in the season.

Now, let us turn to LoK.

Book 1: Air. This is 12 episodes long, and I would argue that the season finale amounted to three episodes: "Turning the Tides," "Skeletons in the Closet," and "Endgame." That would mean the season finale was 25% of the season. Every if we cutoff "Turning the Tides" because the protagonists are more reactive than proactive in it, the finale would still amount to 17% of the season.

Book 2: Spirits: This is 14 episodes long. It's actually very hard to figure out what constitutes the finale in this. Definitely "Harmonic Convergence," "Darkness Falls," and "Light in the Dark" are included. That would make for 21% of the season. However, you could also argue for "Night of a Thousand Stars" (29%), "A New Spiritual Age," (36%), or even "The Guide" (43%), although the last one is pretty dubious. What is clear is that in the second half of this season, events take on a pace which is at once both relentless and endless.

Book 3: Change. Things are a little clearer here in this 13 episode season. The season finale amounts to three episodes: "The Ultimatum," "Enter the Void," and "The Venom of the Red Lotus." That makes for 23% of the season.

Book 4: Balance. Another 13 episode season, with a three part finale: "Kuvira's Gambit," "Day of the Colossus," and "The Last Stand," for 23% again.

ATLA was 61 episodes long. LoK was 52 episodes long. If we go with the lowest possible number, ATLA had 8 season finale episodes, which made up 13% of the series. Similarly, with the lowest possible number, LoK had 11 season finale episodes, for 21% of the series.

If we instead go with the highest reasonable number, ATLA had 9 finale episodes for 15%, while TLoK had 14, for 27%.

And if we go with the highest possible number, reasonable or not, ATLA had 11 finale episodes, for 18%, while TLoK had 15, for 29%. It's possible to argue that nearly a third of TLoK was season finale episodes!

I think one thing is clear: TLoK spent far too much time on season finales. Did we really need three straight episodes of a mecha battle between Kuvira and our protagonists? Or three straight ones of Korra fighting Unalaq and Vaatu in the spirit world?

[im--never--happy]

Whatever you do, don't think about mako watching his parents burn, helpless, unable to help, frozen in terror. Don't think about mako curling up around bolin on the streets, terrified, alone, cold, sitting up watching and waiting all night so no one tries to hurt or take them away during the night or steal their belongings.

Don't think about him terrified to bend, to wield the element that killed his parents, but too cold to have the luxury of choice. Don't think about him hating his bending, terrified of it, terrified he will lose control of it and become a monster.

Don't think about mako alone and afraid and cold and hungry. Don't think about mako and bolin shivering, huddled together in the freezing cold -- it's too cold for mako to bend and he hasn't mastered the breath of fire.

Don't think about mako curled on the street, unable to get up but knowing if he doesn't, he and bolin will starve and maybe there won'd be a next day. Don't think about him wrenching bread away from somone else, knowing it might mean that person will go hungry, but knowing at least that he and bolin won't starve that night. they'll have enough to make it through to the next sunrise. Don't think about mako taking blankets and forcing himself not to care who will go cold who will go hungry because he and bolin have that blanket and have that bread.

Don't think about him wishing and hoping that they had family that would come for them and loved for them and find them. but as the weeks turned into months turned into years, he knew that they had no family, or any family that they did have didn't want them. don't think about him convincing himself that they were either dead or he didn't want anything to do with them either.

Don't think about mako forgetting the way his parents looked, all he can remember is the burned charred lumps of their faces, the way they looked as they died.

Don't think about Mako turning to the gangsters and the triads because they are the only ones who don't care about child labor laws enough to hire a child. Don't think about what mako had to do to buy his and bolin's way out of the triads, to buy their freedom. because he knew too much, he was an insider, and there's no way they would let someone with that knowledge walk away unscathed. Don't think about his desperation to stay in the pro-bending tournament, knowing that the prize money from each match the only thing keeping him and bolin from the streets, keeping them from the triads. because how else would they pay off the cost of that freedom?

Seriously, whatever you do don't think about mako because it will fucking HURT

[dont-leafmealone]

My thoughts on the new Avatar show announcement

disclaimer; these are my personal opinions and not objective fact. Take this as more of a vent than anything else. Also, this will be VERY long and rambley, and will contain spoilers for just about every existing Avatar-verse IP.

ok so I'm generally of an optimistic mindset when it comes to new Avatar content, because like. Even the GLY comics had SOME good moments (they at least TRIED to answer questions people had after ATLA and Korra were both over)

But I'm having a HARD time being optimistic about this new Earth Avatar show. I have no idea how they're gonna pull off telling a good story that's also a NEW story when LOK had nothing resembling the seeds for a new plot?

ATLA left enough (interesting) loose ends that HAD to be tied up in a future setting (finding Zuko's mom, the fate of the Air Nomads with Aang being the last one, etc.) as well as a few interesting questions that could be explored in either past or future settings (how the avatar came to be, whether the water tribe was rebuilt and how successfully, political unrest with a new fire lord on the throne and the war suddenly ending, past avatars' lives and stories, as well as general questions about the fate of certain characters). LOK and the comics and the FC Yee novels have (with varying degrees of success) answered a lot of those.

The problem is, I have a hard time thinking of any such interesting threads in LOK that don't just point back to the past again. Whatever questions I have about the future are strictly related to the characters, because there wasn't a whole lot going on in the *world* of Legend of Korra that would have long-term effects. At least not beyond the connection to past Avatars being cut off, which is a story that for me just isn't interesting enough to center a whole series around the implications of, unless it's set during the era of Wan's immediate successor trying to learn the ropes from the ground up; or the effects of Wu abolishing the monarchy, which...creates a political drama and not much else, as far as I can see, and that's literally the last thing I want to watch a cartoon about.

As i said, the questions LOK DID leave me with were related to the characters rather than the world itself, which...is kind of a bad thing if you're setting the sequel in a time when most or all of those characters are going to be dead. I mean, we saw how that went in LOK; nobody liked Toph being a cop, or Katara being a lonely old lady (and yeah, she wanted a peaceful life, but there's nothing about her in LOK that says 'peaceful' to me. She's lonely and sad.) or Sokka being barely mentioned, or Aang being a neglectful dad (and yeah, there's nuance to that one but it isn't done very well in my opinion). Zuko gets to be in a couple episodes and have a dragon and a daughter we know nothing about from a wife we know even less about.

Setting the story as far in the future as they would need to to avoid killing Korra off at the ripe old age of like 30 (and wow, wouldn't that be such a good take, having both existing named water tribe avatars die tragically young?) would in the process do two things:

Remove nearly all ties to the original show and any relevant stories that could be told in relation through characters and plotlines that showed up there (and all ties that I would personally find interesting)

progress the world of Avatar further into an already over-westernized version of the world, presumably technologically advancing it and keeping in line with the 'real-world progression' set up by setting LOK in a 1920s-esque era.

I don't know about you but nothing excites me LESS than seeing characters I have no emotional connection to and no information on navigate a modernized, westernized version of the avatar world. LOK tried that, some people liked it, but it didn't really do it for me. If it had been a miniseries like Bryke originally planned, and actually focused on worldbuilding and saving-the-world rather than interpersonal drama, or even kept the long-form series but had a more overarching plot, I would have probably liked it a whole lot better, but...that's not what happened.

Instead they had four separate conflicts, all of which ended up rushed, and all ending with (for me) extremely unsatisfying conclusions. The non-bender protesters are shut down (even though they're still oppressed) and it's never mentioned again; Vaatu gets killed (which is still just dumb to me, Chaos isn't bad and you can't have one without the other); The Red Lotus all die painful deaths and their only impact is political (yet we don't feel the impact because of how little time is spent with the world-building over interpersonal stuff, as said before); and Kuvira's ultimately noble goal is negated by the distinctly terrible actions in the name of said goal.

So yeah. LOK didn't lay much groundwork for a future series, and unless the plot synopsis drops and it's something truly groundbreaking (lol get it? Because it's an earthbender Avatar? So it's literally - yeah nevermind) I'm not holding out a lot of hope.

But that's just my two cents!

[biconickyoshi]

as much as i love the lore of the past lives, i have to disagree with the idea of restoring the connection. i think it would be a major cop out to something that was narratively supposed to hold a lot of weight. we know that Aang intentionally severs his connection to Roku in the comics, as well as other avatars describing the state as being a bit dubious. an avatar state free of such a chaotic form of influence (thousands of voices dictating to you at once) seems more respectful to an individual avatars autonomy and ultimately fits a modern worlds themes much better.

I totally get that, anon! I've always been mixed on it. I do think the fact that it holds a lot of narrative weight and makes it more difficult for Korra as a whole makes it an interesting concept to explore, but I also feel like it cheapens the concept of the Avatar State as a whole. Now that the Avatar State is no longer "the combined power/knowledge of all past lives", it's just Raava giving Korra a power-up.

IMO, the loss of the past lives connection in general just takes away a lot of what makes the Avatar and Avatar State as concepts unique and interesting. While the idea of of thousands of Avatars controlling someone at once does reduce the current Avatar's autonomy, that's more so for before an Avatar learns to control the State (when they're stuck in glowy-eye mode). After they've learned how to control it, it seems that the current Avatar is accessing that knowledge willingly (as indicated by the brief glow instead of the constant glow) rather than being forced into it, and using that knowledge to perform a great feat of bending. Kinda like looking through a filing cabinet and picking the right folder with the document you need lol

[nyxelestia]

Besides shipping nonsense, I suspect a lot that accusation comes from people needing to extrapolate everything to extremes or dump people into absolute categories.

It's an unpopular opinion, but I actually like the hints that some of the Gaang were imperfect parents. Making mistakes doesn't negate how they clearly still loved their kids, or how much their kids loved them back or missed them. But, equally so this doesn't mean that Aang's attention skewing towards the kid with the least outside support makes him a deadbeat. The world isn't divided into perfect parents who do no wrong and awful parents who should never have kids.

Kya and Bumi are allowed to have frustrations about their dad's mistakes while still loving him and wanting to continue their family's legacy and traditions. Frustration and love, or even resentment and love, are not mutually exclusive. You can let these kids have their feelings while also letting Aang be a good dad.

This.

The aang and kataang renaissance is the funniest thing of 2024

The haters always get crazily ratioed 👀