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thesoccerenthusiast · 1 month ago

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Big, Long Video Game Review: I Played Sly Cooper 4: Thieves in Time...

One of my first-ever games I got on the PlayStation when I was a kid was Sly Cooper 2: Band of Thieves.

I can't remember if it was technically my game or my brother's game, but either way, that was one of the first games I had. Along with Jak and Daxter, my love for platforming was born from these games. When I got older — and got a PlayStation Now subscription as a full-fledged adult — I finally got a chance to play the other games: Sly 1 (Thievius Raccoonus), Sly 3 (Honor Among Thieves) and, finally, Sly 4 (Thieves in Time).

I had seen a lot of YouTube videos and reviews over the years of the infamous Sly 4. Of course, it didn't take a genius to figure out that a lot was different: the art style, the graphics, the mission-types and the developer.

The reviews were mainly negative about the game, but I'm the type of person that doesn't want to judge something unless I've played it myself. So I began to forget all of the reviews I read and jumped into the game.

Let's rip the band-aid off... I loved it.

I'm sure that may come as a shock to folks in the Sly Cooper Community, because a wide majority absolutely despise this game. But, I really enjoyed it. Of course, there are some things that are head-scratch worth (hi, Penelope and Murray's writing), but overall, I enjoyed the story, I absolutely adored the ancestors and the graphics were truly something to behold.

So, if you're intrigued, take a look at my favorite things, my not-so-favorite things and my overall thoughts on the game!

Thumbs Up: The Ancestors

In Sly 3, I didn't really care for the new playable characters. Nothing thrilled me about Penelope, up until her boss-battle with LeFwee, the Panda King's movement and firework controls were just annoying, the Guru was alright but the controls were kind of janky and Dimitri's missions were groan-worthy. But, in Sly 4, I really enjoyed playing as the ancestors.

The best ancestor, in my opinion, is Tennessee "Kid" Cooper. His gun mechanic is really good and actually pretty solid from a game-play point of view. The crack shot was a fun tool and I enjoyed the puzzles you had to do with it. My second favorite was Riochi Cooper. His moves were pretty standard and the special ninja jump move wasn't anything to write home about, but his lines were so good and I really enjoyed his stealth-slam technique with the ninja stars.

I'd give the next spot to Sir Galleth Cooper. I wish you got to use the sword more, but his high jump was fun when having to overcome the obstacles in the hub world and on missions. At the end of the game, Galleth's section where he has to get Tennessee's cane back was my favorite to play. Fourth, I'd give it to Bob Cooper. The ability to climb on ice was a lot of fun in the hub world. Although his movement was a bit heavy.

Last but not least, Salim Al-Kupar. His ability to speed-climb the poles wasn't super unique, because if you put the thief costume on Sly, he can climb up the poles with the ability to slow down time. The other costumes didn't give Sly the same abilities as the ancestors, so that knocks some points off Salim. Although his lines were great. "Ugh... again with the climbing?"

Go take a nap, Salim.

The best part about the ancestors is that they all have a personality. They're not stagnant. You have a hot-headed Galleth, a wise ninja with Riochi, a cocky know-it-all with Tennessee, a grumpy ol' Salim and an excited Bob.

How can you not love Riochi's conversation with Murray when they're at the Geisha house? Or Tennessee's first meeting with Sly, when he thinks the latter is 'funnin' on his family name? Or how about Bob's cutscenes where he's playing with Bentley's technology?

Their personalities are great, and I will not stand for any ancestor slander!

Thumbs Up: The Platforming

Gosh, I miss good-old-fashioned platformers. Sly Cooper has always been a game based on platforming. Of course, this was most evident in Sly 1. But, Sly 4 really returns to a big platforming focus. There isn't a lot of mini-games — sans the training segment with Bob Cooper.

It even seems like Bentley's hacking has been toned down a bit. You really increase the hacking missions when you want to 100 percent the game, as the masks are hidden in the 'arcade' machine.

Doing the platforming in Riochi's sushi shop, Madame Geisha's house, Tennessee's mission where he gets his gun back and Galleth's missions overall, were a lot of fun. My favorite hub-world to find masks was Galleth, as the different towers had a lot of platforming variants. It was a lot of fun.

Thumbs Up: The Clue Bottles and Treasures

They're back! I gotta be honest, the fact that this game has clue bottles and treasure immediately shoots it up on my Sly Cooper rankings — those are at the end, stay tuned!

The clue bottles were always my favorite part of Sly 2, and you have to get them in Sly 1 to get much-needed power ups for upcoming missions. Having them back in Sly 4 was a great decision by Sanzaru. And, they were hard to find! I remember really struggling in the Old West for it to be literally on top of a rock. Prehistoric times also provided a bit of a challenge, along with Arabia. Really well done by the creators to put them in tough spots.

And the treasures were awesome. I remember it taking me a while — i.e. merry ol' England — to figure out that you needed the Samurai suit to blast the doors. The fact that you have to go back and use the costumes to get the treasures is great, too. Really a nice touch for those who want to 100 percent the game.

The masks were a good addition too. I really didn't like that there were some in the arcade game, but at least it gave the game a purpose (unlike the random ping-pong table). I also just hated the Bentley missions where he was a shooter, so that might be a 'me' criticism. But, the masks were a good add, and I liked that they were in mission levels, too. Well done, Sanzaru.

Thumbs Up: The Costumes Have a Purpose

In Sly 3, you got costumes to basically walk in front of guards and then talk to them. First and foremost, I'm glad that this game got rid of the thought-bubble 'challenges' where you have to pick the next piece of dialogue. That was exhausting in Sly 3.

Anyway, the costumes have a real purpose in Sly 4. In Japan, you get a Samurai suit that is flame-resistant and can launch fireball attacks back. In the Old West, you get a jailbird costume that is probably lowest on my list: you get to walk on a ball and use the ball to move cages and stuff. In the Prehistoric times, you get a sabertooth tiger suit that allows you cyclone pounce on enemies. In England, you get an archer's outfit, equipped with a bow. Finally, in Arabia, you get a thief costume with a giant sword and the ability to slow down time.

My favorite costume is probably the archer costume, as it's the most practical. Going back to other time periods and finding buckets of arrows is a treat. We'll just ignore that it took me seven tries to get the bottle of Merlin's Magic with the shooting game.

Thumbs Up: Carmelita's Inclusion

OK, obviously the bellydancing mission wasn't the best — whoever thought of that should be stoned, frankly — but other than that, I really enjoyed Carmelita in this game.

Although, quick criticism out of the way: I didn't care for Grey DeLisle voicing Carmelita in this game. I love Grey, and am a huge fan of her performances as Azula in Avatar: The Last Airbender, Kimiko in Xiaolin Showdown and so many more, but her Carmelita was... meh. I would say it's better than Sly 2's performance, but not better than Sly 1 or Sly 3.

But anyway, I loved her inclusion. The mission where she had to take down the three-headed mechanical dragon was great, and the writing between her and Galleth was so smooth. I loved how Sly got jealous. I've seen a lot of people say that Sly calling Galleth "sir goof" was out of character, since he's always respected the ancestors. While that respect is true, I don't think it's out of character. He's the jealous type, our little thieving raccoon. Carmelita was pushing his buttons and gamers already saw that Sly had an annoyance with the hot-headed Galleth.

The mission where she teamed up with Tennessee to rescue the Cooper Gang out of prison was really good too. I liked the back-and-forth between Carmelita for the shooting and Tennessee for the platforming. *Chef's kiss*

The ending of the game had a scene where you can see how much Sly and Carmelita care for each other, and then when Carmelita does her own search for Sly? Man, it's so good. Carmelita's character was really solid in Sly 4, in my opinion.

Thumbs Up: The Animated Cut Scenes & Chapter Scenes

Were the comic-book style animations in Sly 1, 2 and 3 amazing? Absolutely. Was the animated scenes in Sly 4 also really good? Yes.

I loved the art style. I can understand if it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I really enjoyed it. The cut-scenes in the game were also really smooth. I thought some were unnecessary — take Riochi's sushi shop, where there's a cutscene when he opens the last door, you take a few steps and turn on the lights and then it's another cutscene — but for the most part, I thought they were done well.

And while the cutscenes in Murray and Riochi's mission inside Madame Geisha's house were funny — Riochi had the best facial expressions, as shown above — they interrupted the game play in the sense of buttons had to be hit as soon as a cutscene ended. Other than that, I loved it.

Thumbs Up: The Hub Worlds & Design In General

Gosh, this game is gorgeous. I mean, its graphics are really something. My favorite level is definitely Feudal Japan, with Medieval England being a close second. The way the moonlight shines enough for you to see details around the level, but also keep the stealthy-nighttime setting is perfection.

Even the daytime levels look great. The clean, sleekness of the Prehistoric times level is a nice touch and the Old West looks and feels like... the old West! Arabia is beautiful, with all the vibrant colors. Also, we can't forget the Paris rooftops. I love the continuity of keeping Paris in these games.

I'll also add the music in this section. Peter McConnell is back doing the soundtrack and I think he had a lot of fun with using different time periods and cultures for the music in these levels. The Medieval England soundtrack is definitely my favorite of the bunch.

*********

Alright, now it's time for the things I didn't particularly care for.

Thumbs Down: The F'ing Loading Screens

The waits with the loading screen were loooooooong. Coming from a Sly 1, 2 and 3 that didn't have this issue, this was a rough transition. Platformers of this time didn't have loading screens like this. Granted, I've never played Ratchet and Clank (that's next), but the Jak series never had these issues. It was a total shame to see Sly have such long, drawn out loading screens.

Thumbs Down: Murray's Character "Arc"

Sly and Bentley were characters that underwent some massive development in the first three games. But, out of everyone in the Cooper Gang, Murray had the best story in the trilogy.

He went from being the 'fat guy' of the bunch who only wanted snacks in Sly 1, and was generally a nuisance in that game, to being "The Murray" in Sly 2. Opening up Sly 2 with this newfound confidence was a big positive to Murray's character. You got to see that confidence throughout the entire game — even after being an experiment to the Contessa. At the end of the game, Murray helps Bentley. And moving to the third game, you see him leaving the gang and grappling with guilt over his friend's injury.

His journey in the third game is really special. He vows to live a peaceful life with meditation and training by his guru. However, Bentley gets hurt by Don Octavio, and 'The Murray' returns. "I'm going to floss my teeth with your spine." Murray is back and better than ever. In the third game, he really grows.

And in the fourth game? He's back to the 'fat guy' who loves snacks and can punch things. The Sanzaru writers give him this weird character arc, if you want to call it that. He can't climb up an ice wall... so they bring the ice-climbing Bob Cooper in. All of a sudden, Murray feels useless and is depressed — Bentley even tells him to come back for a snack at the safe house. At the end of the level, Murray is the hero, beating The Grizz all on his own. Everyone gives him praise. Murray says he's been a screw up. Bentley goes on this monologue about how everyone makes mistakes. Yawn.

Murray has the least exciting missions, in my opinion, in Sly 4, and that's really a shame considering how useful he was in Sly 3. Who can forget the mission where he gets his beloved van back? The Geisha mission was funny, don't get me wrong, but Murray seemed like the character that Sanzaru didn't know what to do with. That's a shame.

Thumbs Down: The Boss Fights

Talk about yawn. The boss fights weren't anything to write home about. In terms of difficulty, The Grizz was probably the toughest — and I only say that because of the ice blocks and the limited time you have to hit Grizz with them.

El Jefe was a fine boss fight but, again, not very tough. Toothpick was annoying, and everyone rolled their eyes by the second, third and fourth time he yelled, "Who turned on that blasted whistle!?" Grizz was already mentioned, but the whole 'I want to be a figure skater' was ... weird. It came out of nowhere. Penelope — uh, ahem, the Black Knight — was a snoozefest. Miss Decibel provided some challenge with the thief costume, but was otherwise another easy boss.

And don't even get me started on the joke that was the Le Paradox 'boss' fight at the end. Talk about easy.

The Bosses backstories were fun enough — particularly how Decibel was making fake lineage papers for Le Paradox, or how an Eastern European thug like Toothpick loved the old West — but the fights? Pretty darn lame.

Here's how I rank the boss fights in terms of difficulty: (1) The Grizz, (2) El Jefe, (3) Miss Decibel, (4) Penelope/The Black Knight, (5) Toothpick and (6) Le Paradox.

Thumbs Down: Penelope... To an Extent.

Penelope turning against the Cooper Gang isn't that shocking — and it wasn't a bad move by Sanzaru in Sly 4.

OK, let me give you a second to catch your breath.

Listen, Penelope is prone to doing this. She is a liar when you first meet her, after all. She claims to want to bring down the Black Barron and help the Cooper Gang, and then she's revealed to be the Black Barron. She ditches that life and joins the Cooper Gang. Eventually, she falls for Bentley and the rest is history.

Then, in Sly 4, you find out that Bentley and Penelope were making a time machine and suddenly, she disappeared. I don't mind this twist. It's a nice twist in the game and it sets you up for another betrayal by the RC specialist.

Before we get to the actual revelation of the betrayal, the game kind of spoils it that Penelope is the Black Knight. First off, "Black Barron" and "Black Knight" are pretty similar monikers. But also, during one of the load screens, it's shoved in your face that "Penelope once disguised herself as a the Black Barron." I don't know about anyone else, but i felt like I got this loading screen a bunch during the Medieval England level... before the revelation.

Now, let's talk about the revelation. The scene plays out that she hops out of the Black Knight machinery to get some air. Bentley, doing some maneuvering in the ceiling rafters, sees her. She goes into this ramble:

"If only Bentley hadn't been brainwashed by Cooper's 'honorable thief' nonsense, we could have made billions in weapon design! The two most brilliant minds on the planet working together? We could have owned the world! No matter. Once Cooper's out of the way, he'll see things my way. Poor Bentley, he's kinda cute when he's being dumb."

I don't hate this! This is actually really good! I've seen on Reddit that it's about a year between Sly 3 and Sly 4. Penelope probably had an idea in her head that she and Bentley were going to make a time machine and really cash in. That didn't happen. She got frustrated and she left. Not the way I would have done it, but it's not out of character for Penelope. She literally disguised herself as a grown man to get her way and be in a flying tournament.

But here's where the issue lies. When she and Bentley are speaking during the boss fight, there is a major contradiction. Take a look below.

The big issue: Bentley calls out Penelope for leaving him and joining Le Paradox for the money. And Penelope tells him, "No, you're not listening. He's just a means to an end." Uh... yeah, that's literally exactly what Bentley said. Le Paradox being a means to an end means that he is a cash cow to Penelope.

And Bentley hit it on the spot. Le Paradox was going to dump Penelope, whether she succeeded against the Cooper Gang or not. At the end, when Le Paradox describes the new machine he uses for time travel, he says, "Look at this, my marvelous contraption: The Time Tunnel. Something else I had your little friend Penelope develop before her unfortunate failure."

Cyrille Le Paradox only sees Penelope as someone who makes stuff for him. That's it. Who knows if he was even going to pay her.

Needless to say, the one line of dialogue about being a "means to an end" could have been taken out, and I wouldn't have hated this decision by Sanzaru. But, with the addition, it creates more headache than necessary.

Thumbs Down: The Never-Ending Talking

Some of the things that the characters say is pretty funny. I think there's a line where Tennessee says that getting in the thick of a fight is more fun than square-dancing with a donkey. But the talking is never-ending, even in the run of play. This is a game about stealth. It's not about listening to the characters talk every 10 seconds.

Also, let's add this note in this section: Sly is way too cocky in this game. And his lack of seriousness can get annoying. When he comes face-to-face with Le Paradox for the first time in Arabia, his first words to him are, "And may you always stay downwind."

There's been so much that has happened up until this point... and the first thing that Sly can do is make fun of Le Paradox for being a skunk?

Even in the boss fights, the talking is just too much. "I don't know what's scarier: El Jefe, or his bad jokes." "Hey Penelope! I think I saw some rust spots!" And let's not forget the 80 million times you hear this phrase: "Here comes the Grizz!"

Final Thoughts on Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time

This game is not perfect, but I think a lot of things were done right with Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time.

I really love the look of the game, from the graphics to the cutscenes to the designs of the ancestors and the locations. The story is pretty compelling for the most part and I love the idea of Cyrille Le Paradox wanting to erase the Cooper's from history because Sly's dad cucked his dad — thief-wise, that is.

The writing could use some work. Undoubtedly. But I'm playing Sly 4 for the game play and a compelling story, and I got that. I really enjoyed this game, despite the rough ending and lame Le Paradox boss fight.

I don't blame Sanzaru for the cliffhanger as Sony really screwed over franchises during the 2010s. Evidently the creators were expected to at least have a DLC to solve the 'Sly in Egypt' issue, but the promise was broken.

I enjoyed the game. I would definitely enjoy replaying it. I hope we do, one day, get a Sly 5 to figure out how to get our thieving Raccoon out of Egypt.

I would give Sly Cooper (4): Thieves in Time... a score of 4.5/5.

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ms-scarletwings · 1 year ago

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Bare with me i have a ton of thoughts about this I need to try to get out in one big vomit blast

The worst part is how it’s NOT that hard to sell the “Penelope betrays the gang” premise. That’s a completely workable and believable follow through from the third game, where she was introduced as a twist villain off the bat. She’s cute and has been great to her friends as seen but she is not a fundamentally good person. She’s not, and that doesn’t count against her as a character, either. Dimitri is not a good person. He’s every bit the same sleazy, self absorbed lounge lizard you beat the hell out of in Paris. He helped the Cooper Gang for the same reason his once fought against them, because it aligned with his own interests. I’m sure he feels a lot more warmly towards them now, but that doesn’t mean he agrees with their moral code. The same with Panda King. His character development that suits him to joining the gang has NOTHING to do with atoning for or feeling a hint of remorse for the countless people he has killed/exploited; it’s freaking about putting aside his deserved embarrassment so he can come through for the daughter he abandoned when she needed him. Everything else for the gang was repaying a debt.

And Penelope is not that different from King or Dimitri in this realm. She was a career criminal with an enormous, merciless death count who tried to kill the gang when they were inconvenient to her ambition (to only provide her skills to “the best”) and joined them when she found the cards fell differently. She absolutely did not align with Sly’s principles of honor and integrity as the Black Baron. She rigged every tournament in her favor, cheated her ass off, and tried to literally yeet Sly off of a plane rather than accept losing at her own game. The Black Baron was not an imprisoning role she felt restricted to play… it was the Hyde to her Jekyll. The costume and her technology let her actually defy restrictions and be every bit the ruthless dogfighting blowhard she couldn’t be otherwise. Black Baron was someone who reveled in blasting his opponents out of the damn sky threatened his own staff with, and I quote “If we lose- if I lose, I’m going to take it out on all of you.”

What I’m saying is all of those qualities she showed when she was the Baron didn’t leave after she ditched the disguise. And it saved Bentley’s freaking life in Bloodbath Bay when she brought that side of herself back out again.

I really want to remind all of you that Lefwee is the only trilogy boss that was straight up MURDERED by a member of the Cooper gang.

I shit you not, Sly, Murray, Bentley, none of them have never actually killed a main antagonist directly. Clockwerk/Clockla? Carmelita was the one who laid the hate chip to a final rest. The Mask of Dark Earth? Also the cops (and it kind of just exploded on its own technically). At worst you only get the Batman treatment from Sly once you’ve made him an enemy. Penelope fed an entire man alive to hungry sharks and did a victorious emote over his final cries. It had me jaw dropped for what a suddenly dark closer it was, because we hadn’t seen something that nonchalantly brutal since Arpeggio’s death.

“Stand and take it!”

Point is, Penelope had the guts all along. Her widdle innocent Coco Bandicoot ass appearance completely belies a cheeky genius capable of utterly savage things if backed into a corner or taking a chance to chase glory.

You think Bentley’s romantic jealousy toward the crush Penelope was kindling for Sly was the only insecurity of his that had been obviously bleeding through to the surface? You think his frustrations about being paralyzed were the only things he probably found Penelope a cathartic ear to vent to when they became closer? Those chapters leading up to the heist on Kaine Island were a subtly tense period regarding Bentley’s view of himself and his role in the brotherhood. He explicitly was starting to ask himself some of the same questions that set Dr.M up for an ugly fallout with his and Conner’s relationship. Dr.M was a test for both Sly and Bentley to acknowledge some of their faults and remember what truly mattered to them, which both of them passed. Wholesome and wonderful.

But Penelope only joined on board for maybe the last few months or so of this team actually being a team. I don’t doubt that she fell in love with this mental powerhouse who could finally match up to her competitively, in fact I think the realization that it was actually Bentley and not Sly who had outsmarted her during the ACES played so so much into that. So what does that leave of her impression of Sly? All of this work, all of this sacrifice on some of their parts, to get Sly in spitting distance of his family inheritance, and then after Bentley invests every bit of faith against the doubts he probably clued her in on, this “lifelong friend” mf goes missing in action. No note, no goodbye, god forbid Bentley also told Penelope about the discovery that his BFF actually just ran off to elope with the very cop that tried to put all of them behind bars for years now.

Bentley of course knows Sly like a brother and where the man’s heart and commitments actually are. He knows that Sly earned that trust and he came out of the third game more solid than ever in his respect for the Cooper legacy and their leader.

….Did Penelope?

cause I’m not gonna lie,, I think the freak not.

Without Sly in the picture, Bentley proved capable of inventing fucking time travel and hijacking the entirety of Thiefnet. Thinking that the raccoon was only holding back dude’s potential wouldn’t even have just been in line with her in-character beliefs, it was more or less exactly what Dr.M concluded just by observing the gang from the outside. Penelope is right about Bentley. What makes her wrong in the important sense is her disregard for where Bentley actually is his own person with other priorities and ambitions besides that of the Contessa or Muggshot…. or the Black Baron. She can’t “become a villain again” because she actually never stopped being a villain, see?

And that’s why I’m so fucking mad about what thieves and time did with that raw premise. Bringing Bentley’s character development a little closer to the foreground now that we’ve pretty much finished with Sly’s coming of age? Making the part of him that’s a good friend who believes in Sly’s principles confront the part of himself that we all know had been making more devious and destructive plans over the years? Setting up this philosophic showdown between a genius thief with honor and a genius thief without honor where they still love each other but also have their own higher priorities tugging them apart and it’s agonizing for both of them?!? Jesus Christ that would actually be a story worth tolerating Bob Cooper after all!

It was a good idea and Sanzaru kind of dragged it over the drain and slaughtered it. The execution feels so hamfisted and abrupt, they obviously don’t show a lot of understanding for Penelope’s motivations, and honestly wtf is Le Paradox even here for? Paradox absolutely did not have to be here to make this work and he kind of slaughters it a little bit harder, because now you have to actually sell me the bigger bridge that Penelope, who’s risk averse, hard to impress, and arrogant as all fuck would volunteer as an underling to this joker. That actually, she needed him to be able to kill Sly who she already sees as an intellectual inferior. Yeah, real boss babe baddie you cultivated there, stooping down to be a dragon in chief instead of the main antagonist herself.. not! If Penelope weren’t here, Le Paradox would just be a shameful clockwerk wannabe beating a dead horse at best. She shouldn’t sell out for some skunk, she’s frustrated that Bentley sold out for some raccoon.

If he had to be there, the roles honestly should have been swapped regarding who’s the one atop all operations. Give her room to at least pretend she’s forced to do something she doesn’t want to. Give her that red herring to try and distract the team away from finding out who’s actually trying so hard to kill Bentley’s best friend. Give her that chance to be Mr “pugilism is my passion” again until the new mask is literally ripped off and she has nothing left but excuses. By all means, let this coward be riding a smug high about throwing an entire arsenal at Sly, but not about breaking Bentley’s heart. Don’t reveal her to actually be stupid for no other reason than to grant Bentley a soapbox to monologue about how dumb she is and how she knew nothing about him. Really the biggest problem with the whole thing was that the cooper gang was actually already apart and realizing their identity outside of the trio. Sly 3 ends with Bentley accepting Murray and Sly giving him space he uses to do exactly what Penelope wants tbh??? They were happy partners in crime with no hint/foreshadowing that they would end up fighting over the Master Thief code, and then she for… some reason??? Decided to stage a cause for the gang to come back together… so she could get rid of sly for the offense of… getting the gang back together. I don’t get it either.

It was a decent first draft, but they should have gone about it any other way than the route of a writer trying (intentionally or not) to convince you instead that the grand moral of everyone’s relationship drama (looking at what they did to my poor Carmelita too) was just “bros before hoes” and no one in the Cooper gang gets to fall in love without someone completely compromising everything they believe in and are, actually.

I’m not angry that they did it. I’m angry that they did it badly.

im bored

#Sly Cooper #sly 3 honor among thieves #Sly 3 #sly cooper analysis #Penelope sly cooper #sly cooper Penelope #The Black Baron #Fixing Theives in Time #sly 4 hate #scarlet talks about things #long post

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