#LMK analysis

[autism-autobot]

LMK'S "REDEMPTION ARCS"

I like Lego Monkie Kid's "redemption arcs", and that is a hill I'm willing to die on.

It's no secret that the 'redemption arcs' in LMK aren't your stereotypical redemption arcs, AND THAT'S OKAY!!!!!

I think that it's very nice to have evil/villainous characters have a moment of "It was at this moment that he knew... HE. FUCKED. UP." and then doing a 180 from their original plans.

The Demon Bull Family's arc is a great example of this. Heck, Princess Iron Fan and especially Red Son might not have even been antagonists if it wasn't for Demon Bull King wanting to take over the city/world. They love him so much that they were willing to follow him to the ends of the universe if that's what it took to help him fulfill his goals and dreams.

Then came their run-in with the Lady Bone Demon. That's when the Demon Bull King realized just how much his plans could cost his family if he chose to continue down this path. IT COULD COST THEM EVERYTHING

Everything that he just got back. The family who freed him from captivity, likely in spite of having been told that it would be a fruitless endeavor. His family: a beautiful wife and intelligent, innovative son who love him so much that they'd lay down their lives for him in a heartbeat. His plans could cost them their lives and almost did. While under LBD's influence, he attempted to strike his son... and Red Son didn't even try to move out of the way. He had no reaction period. DBK is absolutely strong enough to kill his son. Had his wife not stepped in, Red Son might have been killed by his own hand if the blow was hard enough. That realization alone of what LBD almost made him do could very well be the thing that made him turn back on the idea of world domination.

It makes total sense for a man who's number one priority is his family (even if he doesn't always show it) to give up on all else if his family is the price he has to pay.

It's just not worth it.

He later lectures Azure Lion on this topic of "The price is worth more than the payoff" when he says in season 4:

"This pursuit of yours has warped your mind, brother."

The exact same thing happened to him. DBK tried to warn him to turn back now.

But he didn't.

And now he's dead.

Doing a 180 saved the Demon Bull King's hide and it works so much better for the story overall than a long fleshed out redemption arc.

The villain getting a reality check is in my opinion a much better storytelling device than a redemption arc and is criminally underrated.

A metaphorical (lego) brick to the face is much more powerful in my opinion.

[itsabouttimex2]

You guys know MK will like… kill people. Right? You guys know that he’s not a blubbering little baby who insists on “being the bigger person” even in the face of everything he loves being destroyed??

And he has directly killed someone before.

Because she was threatening to destroy the world and kill his friends?

You guys know MK likes fighting. Right? MK from the very start has enjoyed fighting. Still enjoys fighting. Has always loved beating the tar out of his enemies. In the Calabash episode, one aspect of his “perfect life” was a very notable panel of the entire Demon Bull Family beaten to a pulp and sidelined- explicitly told to him that he was responsible for driving them away. Because MK liked fighting from the start.

You guys know that MK; who only starts having reservations about this behavior in season five, enjoys being violent. Right?

So much so that he threw Azure through Flower Fruit Mountain long after he had beaten him into degradation, even though he had dozens of other targets to aim at?

You guys do realize that MK was entirely in control of himself during this sequence, and was choosing all his actions?

And he chose to hurt Azure as bad as possible in revenge for being deceived?

You guys understand that he’s not like… a little blubbering baby who runs off to throw tantrums when he engages with basic violence? That MK understands that sometimes fighting is necessary and won’t fall apart the second he learns that people sometimes have to settle things physically?

You guys understand that MK has never held the use of violence against anyone, and has never blamed his friends or family or mentor for needing to engage in violence to protect themselves and their loved ones, right?

Right??

Right??

Right???

[aroacenezhaanddainsleif]

(SHAKES LMK FANDOM) LISTEN TO ME ABOUT NEZHA AND MK PARALLELS...!!!!!!!!

LMK might not give Nezha the narrative importance he could have and that SUCKS but hear me out. the demon child. the monkie "kid" who might not be the hero he's been made out to be.

the kid born too powerful. the boy made too powerful. the prince who can read and comfort everyone yet ignores his own worries. the successor who can read and comfort everyone but never himself.

the two who are seen as monsters when it was never really their choice. the two who limit their powers, tamper them down or channel them elsewhere so as to avoid mass destruction. the two who live in Wukong's shadow, despite his best intentions.

the two who, at the end of the day, carry the responsibility of protecting everyone, whether they think they can or not.

[cherllyio]

How Macaque died (Season 5 spoilers)

@rika1991tr tagged me, and asked what it tells us about Macaque's death/ him and Wukong's fight.

So- this is for you :D

and...

*cracks knunckles*

OH BOY

To get to the bottom of this, we have to understand one thing:

Wukong and Macaque never stopped caring for eachother. Beheind all that hate in the first three seasons, they still cared for eachother (none of them dares to show it though)

Just look at how Macaque reaches out for Wukong- (godamnit)

So... what was that "something" Wukong was going to do, that he was warning Macaque about?

Well... Wukong was going to do THIS to Macaque:

Because as my dear friend @lu-zijing (they talked about it here) mentioned to me, there is chains here in Macaque death scene:

And not only that, thoughs chains look A LOT like the chains Tripitaka and Wukong put on LBD:

SO IN OTHER WORDS:

MK AND WUKONGS FIGHT ARE A PARALELL TO MACAQUE AND WUKONG'S FIGHT.

AND ALSO THIS LINE?

Nine headed demon: How did you know that spell? Who did you make a deal with?

Macaque: What deal?

So clearly Macaque has a power, tha he got from someone else, that he CANT control.

And what do we see here in this scene?

The chains broken (again thanks to Lu-Zijing for mentioning that to me), but the shadowpowers OUT OF CONTROL.

In other words: I higely doubt Wukong acutally killed Macaque.

Yes, they got into a fight, but Wukong just wanted to trap Macaque in chains, so he could talk him out of this fight (instead of fighting who used to be his closest compainion).

But... something went wrong. Because right after that line we saw this:

Meaning that Wukong (acdently), destroyed Macaques eye, causing Macaque to PANIC, resulting in Macaque over-using his shadowpowers and then...

...

And one last thing, I would like to point out-

In that same scene Macaque was laughing, and an pretty evil laugh at that.

Almost like... his shadow powers had "taken over".

So lets do the math, yea?

Super unstable shadowpowers + super unstable monkey + the only friend he has ever had "leaving" him =

Ha ha- not to mention Wukong isnt even wearing a circlet here, meaning it didnt even take place in JTTW-!! but thats another can of worms, I will talk about another day-

(lol, did you know I acutally somehow foresaw this in a fanfic-)

[passions-and-pupils]

You can really tell someone’s relationship with Sun Wukong by the name they call him

Monkey King: used mostly by mortals, shows great respect or little knowledge of the guy

Sun Wukong: used more commonly by immortals or people who knew him. Moderate to low respect. Depends on tone

WUKONG: low respect. First name. Used by people who unfortunately know him well

Monkey: used by the pilgrims. Shows closeness as well as respect. Directly from JTTW.

IMBECILE: HATRED but in a way that shoes they knew each other well. Used by Demon Bull King

this is best demonstrated in the beginning of the episode “The Samadhi Fire” where Sun Wukong slips and you hear three yells. “Wukong!” -Nezha “Monkey!” -Tripitaka “Imbecile!” -DBK

[mint-is-here]

Posting this because it's not getting out of my head-

OK SO some months ago, i saw a post pointing out how Wukong seems to have a thing with bows and ribbons, since almost all of his outfits include them in some way.

So i decided to look into it.

Yeah, this guy does love bows.

The only times i could find that he DIDN'T use any ribbons or bows was when he was possessed by LBD and, weirdly enough, in The King, The Prince And The Shadow.

(There are also two flashback scenes in the s4 special where he doesnt use bows, but I'm not counting them since it was REALLY at the start of Wukong's life and he probably didn't even know what a bow was. There might be more but I don't remember them.)

Now this is all cool and stuff(i genuinely think this is cool), but I noticed something in Season 4's brotherhood flashbacks.

As you can see, the other members of The Brotherhood may use scarfs and similar piece of clothing, but no one else really uses any sort of ribbons like Wukong does.

...that is, no one...

...Except Macaque. The person who Wukong seemed to be the closest to before the Journey started.

Guess who stopped using bows after their friendship turned bitter and the ties(hah) on their relationship were cut?

[featherstorm2004]

Macaque is born from chaos

LMK SPOILERS FOR S5!!!

Ok so it's basically confirmed Macaque is going to be important for the next season considering dear Nine gave him so much attention, especially when you consider the ending shot is him noticing the chaos magic on the staff.

As for why he is important it's basically been confirmed that Mac's shadow magic is strange and in the finally we see it turn into chaos magic. Now, it's implied by Nine that Macaque would have needed to make a deal for this power, but Macaque has no clue what he's talking about which leads me to two theories.

And no I don't think it was the LBD's doing as he's had these powers long before her so no, I think either Mac was born in the chaos realm and somehow made it to this reality OR and this is my personal headcanon, Macaque was made by the "he" Nine referenced before departing in the finally. As to who this being is I have no idea but he is likely a figure of either equal or greater power to Nuwa, who then made Macaque to fulfill a purpose, similarly to how MK and Sun Wukong were.

As for what that purpose is who knows maybe it was to be his eyes and ears in this reality considering in the book Macaque had the ability to hear the past and future, or maybe it was to kill Wukong and Mk since they were Nuwa's sacrifices, we have no idea as this being is likely a creature of chaos so perhaps he had no reason and just wanted to see what would happen, but it's likely going to play a big part next season.

[jamie-is-out-of-ideas]

Get ready for me pointing out minute differences between past and present Wukongs and a slight character analysis mother fuckers (spoilers for everything)

For our first example we see a past Wukong that seemingly does not speak yet and behaves more like a wild animal (chirps[?] and walks on all fours).

He’s also fluffier looking, even his eyebrows which look sorta like Macaque’s, only exception is his knees which for some reason are both missing patches of fur, also note how he has fur on his back and sides of his torso and seems to have a smaller stomach. He also only wears a grass skirt. You’ll also notice that the fur (hair?) at the back of his head sticks out more. He seems happy simply being on the mountain with the other monkeys. This is also the only time when we can see Wukong with fur on his neck and more fur around the peach shape on his chest.

Now cut to another past Wukong, he can speak human (i wonder who taught him that ) now and only walks on his back legs.

His eyebrows and fur also have less of a fluffy look to them and he also wears the grass crown as well as grass made phoenix feathers and some leaf armour type thing around his neck and shoulders. And the fur on the back of his head still goes in an outward direction. The humans he’s talking to look very shocked about him and he seems to want them to like him based on the fact that he asked them if they like that he can speak to them

Now if we take a look at Wukong during his time training with Master Subohdi you can see that this is where his appearance changes start, his back of head fur is now smoothed down and he wears clothes made of fabric now.

In thi flashback he does a transformation in front of Subohdi’s other less accomplished students (which in jttw he gets banished by Subohdi for transforming into a perfect copy of a tree upon request of the other students [im pretty sure that’s what happened anyway]) I believe he did the transformation because he wants the others to like him, you can see when the others laugh at his antics how he looks around at all them smiling because he’s proud of himself for making them laugh.

In the season 4 special Macaque says that Wukong went to get immortality out of fear of death, Wukong says he wanted to get stronger to protect the people he loves. Wukong now has stolen the peaches of immortality and is back on FFM, he says to Macaque that he wants to get stronger so that no one will bother them and they can live life however they want to.

Wukong now wears a hat and has a Jaguar pelt tied around his waist. We can also assume that he is no longer training with Subohdi due to his lack of the white clothing we see in the previous image. i believe the only reason (in lmk canon) that Wukong agreed to help Azure over throw the Jade Emperor is because he assumed it would be the quickest way to solve his problem of people (or just Heaven) bothering him. However as we know that does not end up working out for him.

During Macaque and Wukong’s argument, Wukong says that Macaque always runs away and is angry with him for not rescuing/freeing him, which many people asume is about the mountain but I’m wondering if he’s referring to something else, before he’s trapped under the mountain, the celestiales had been trying to execute him several times and failing he’s then put in a furnace for 49 days which he survives, but I’m wondering if he spent those 49 days waiting for Macaque or the brother hood to come save him, also while trapped under the mountain he was fed copper pellets and melted copper so excuse him if he seems a little grumpy. Also we don’t know if Macaque ever came back after the argument (presumably he didn’t) and we don’t know how long it took for Macaque to find him or how much time is between the argument and Wukong becoming a pilgrim on the jttw/ Tripitaka freeing him.

Also one interesting thing to note is that Tripitaka immediately puts the fillet on Wukong and seems to create it out of nowhere, but in jttw it’s given to him by the Bodhisattva Guan Yin. Also his jttw outfit his his clothes from the brother hood era minus the hat and Jaguar pelt and yellow sleeves on his top (I think it’s called a hanfu but I’m not sure apologizes)

I also noticed that his season 3 outfit is a hoodie that his VERY similar to his jttw clothing.

Now moving on to s4 Wukong he’s not really in the season due to being in the memory scroll but the end of the special reveals something interesting to me.

He lack a lot of fur on his torso he also has a bit of bigger belly and something odd I noticed is the peach shape on his chest, it has these weird lines going toward and away from it which isn’t visible on the peach marking in the past, which leaves me wondering: what’s up with those lines and why is he missing so much fur?

anyway end of this analysis thing-a-majig. Bye

[luciusdaskel]

Macaque Episode Analysis ramble

So I was talking with a friend about the possible psychological and therapeutic take aways from each episode of Lego Monkie Kid, since I love Psychology as a whole, and came to a conclusion. Macaque's episode has a fuck ton of things to analyze. Such as - Not every role model you meet will be a good person Trust your teachers Don't push yourself too hard otherwise you'll get hurt, manipulated and possibly die (let's be real, Macaque would've killed MK if Wukong didn't step in) And, grooming They will all be covered as I explain the episode in depth. When MK first meets Macaque he thought he was Wukong but even after Macaque declines, MK still had stars in his eyes of pure admiration. He clearly looks up to Macaque since he was just as cool if not cooler than Monkey King. Within the very next second Macaque started the process of grooming, after a tiny test to see how strong MK's admiration was. "[...] I thought uh Monkey King was training you. [...] but you can never have too many teachers, I'm sure Monkey King would agree. [...]"

Then Macaque starts to train MK. This shows the duality of Wukong's more MK's current strength and capabilities training versus Macaque's more destructive and dehumanizing training. With Wukong's "Patience and focus, step into the strike", clashing with Macaque's far more brash "You don't use a weapon, you ARE the weapon." This is effective at isolating MK from Wukong and his teachings because MK feels like he is actually powerful now.

As Wukong says, MK's body isn't strong enough to handle the power. This applies to real life too. If someone tries to weight lift something too heavy for their skills, they could get seriously hurt. This is the just magical equivalent of weight lifting. But because of Macaque's influence, MK fights back and isolates himself from Wukong, his trust worthy mentor. This leads Macaque to his final part of his plan, lure MK into a trap with his full hearted trust in him.

Then Macaque finishes his plan by stealing MK's powers. Let's be honest, with how things were going and by our impression of Macaque in this episode, Macaque would have likely killed MK if it weren't for Wukong. OR left MK to die with the staff pressing him against the moutain. What can we gather from this? Well, first and foremost, MK's admiration made him an easy target for manipulation, and what resulted was MK nearly dying from the ordeal. Check for "not ever role model will be a good person", since Wukong is ALSO a role model, but a good one because he doesn't literally groom MK. (More on that in a minute.) Wukong was right and MK does what he taught him then admits his wrongs by the end and opens up on why, which Wukong responds with "Hey, your heart is in the right place, kid. We can work on the rest." MK learned to trust Wukong when he was teaching him something because ultimately that's what saved his life. I'm not saying trust EVERY authority figure, but one that is teaching you something that you trust and know will not hurt you. Get yourself a Wukong for your MK. Macaque's training has lasting impact on MK, making him feel like he needs to give himself up for others. Before this episode, MK never had the need to sacrifice himself or really seemingly blamed himself for anything. Macaque's dehumanizing training left MK with lasting damage to his mental health and also led to MK not being able to pick up the staff, granted that was after Macaque gut-punched the power out of him.

Ouch...

So, I hear you ask, "Ok, you made your point about various things, here but what about grooming? That's a bold word." Yes, it IS a bold word, especially considering the fandom space being primarily for children. However, I will clarify that grooming does not only apply to sexual circumstances.

This is from the official Canada public safety about child grooming. Notice the none sexual tactics.

"Make promises of a better life" - Promises to make MK stronger/a better fighter/hero

"Cause divsion saying "your parents are too strict" or "your parents don't understand you"." - Macaque says "Other people are going to tell you to be patient. They are slowing you down." to directly conflict with Wukong's training, further dividing MK and Wukong.

"May threaten or pressure your child to do what they ask, which could lead to sextortion." - Might not be explicit but it is implied MK had some minor doubts by the end of the training and was literally pushed into battle. Also he threw MK into the weapons rack on their first session, showing that MK was "weak" and prompted him to take up his implicit challenge, his trick. It's unclear if Macaque ever threatened MK while training, but I doubt it and he just pressured him and manipulated his drive and determination.

One that people might argue is "Approach your child online by pretending to be someone they're not - may falsely identify themselves as a person from school, or someone their age, to build a connection." but I believe it applies. - Macaque comes in creating a show with his own kaiju form, either to make himself popular or to attract MK or Wukong. Regardless, he seemed uncomfortable at first but once he prompts up "But you can never have too many teachers", that's when he starts creating a false identity, a trustworthy teacher who knows better than Wukong. That's also neglecting the fact Macaque pretended to not be that smoke demon.

If that's not "pretending to be someone they're not", then I'm not sure what is. Also for specifically adult grooming,

More signs I feel apply are;

"The person becomes withdrawn, or they may seem troubled by something but unwilling to talk about it. Alternatively their emotions might become volatile." - When Wukong points out MK has been running around other mentors, MK sounds calm and cold, like he was withdrawn. Then when Wukong presses on, MK yells at him and doesn't talk about exactly what was bothering him other than "You just don't like that there's someone who actually teaching me what I need to know."

"You notice them using or wearing something new, that you didn't buy [or teach] for them." - I added teach because Wukong points out he never taught MK how to break a wall like that, and was concerned and upset that MK learned that too quickly. Within that same scene, after MK yells at him, that's when Wukong notices the new symbol on MK's jacket and frowns. That's when he knows MK is being groomed, and by who.

"Groomers often aim to isolate their targets from their family or friends." - Well, we never see Mei, Pigsy, Tang, or Sandy in this episode, after the first meeting and they act like MK was gone for a month or more (could easily be a week lol). On top of that, Macaque was causing a divide between MK and Wukong. MK was very clearly pretty isolated already, and so Macaque just had to remove MK for MK's full reliance.

"The person might be spending more time on the phone, or online, than usual. But they won’t say what sites they’re visiting, or who they’re talking to." - This speaks for itself, but it's likely MK was training more and more with Macaque than being around his own friends, especially considering by previous point.

This video goes into great detail on how it happens, why the victim is manipulated easily, and what it does to someone. Granted this video is about a long-time grooming, but I believe the point and the awareness stands. If Macaque had been grooming MK for about a year or more, I feel MK would be closer to these signs than he is in the cannon LMK. Anyways! I hope you had fun with my analysis, and let me know if you'd like more! I love to just ramble about the psychology of certain characters or the takeaways of LMK episodes! I'd love to do Wukong, Macaque as a whole (not just the episode), MK, Xiangliu/Nine mayhaps?? Or even the Focus episode or something else- I have a minor analysis on the focus episode already in my head lol

[yurious-george]

LMK is pretty wishy-washy on whether the Monkie Kids are descendants or reincarnations of the JTTW pilgrims, often flip-flopping between the terms. The actual answer? It's a mix, but they haven't clarified. Here's a quick-and-dirty guide based on show canon:

Pigsy and Mei: Descendants. Mei's heritage as a direct descendant of Ao Lie is a central part of her character. Pigsy's link to Zhu Bajie isn't explicit, but Pigsy's family (recipes "passed down through generations") is a central part of Sweet N' Sour, and Zhu Bajie's status as a cook allows easy extrapolation. They may be reincarnations as well, accounting for their deja vu in The Samadhi Fire.

Tang: Reincarnation. Buddhist monks, famously, do not have sex. There is no mention of Tang's family but the Golden Cicada - heralding the unlocking of Tang's powers - appears in season 3, clarifying that Tang, like Sanzang, is the next reincarnation of Golden Cicada.

Sandy: Unknown. His family is never shown nor is there proof of reincarnation. He may even be the original Sha Wujing, owing to his flashback in To Catch a Leaf. It stands to reason that a river demon would live as long as the river does, but this doesn't explain the (inconsistent) difference in hair color, Wukong treating him like a stranger, or Mo.

MK: Neither. We can be reasonably confident SWK didn't hook up with anyone. Speaking of, SWK is still alive, so MK is not a reincarnation. Oddly, MK seems to be associated with the underworld (a sticker depicting him as the skull in a skull-and-crossbones in Pig Pong Panic, his eyes glowing blue in Minor Scale) and possibly born or even constructed out of a stone (The monkey statue & stone cracking in S4). Just what are you, MK...?

[bonnisbon]

⚠️ I am not chinese, so if any chinese person in the fandom wants to add something or just point out any mistake, please do ⚠️

I've seen people in the fandom call Macaque's smoke monster 'kaiju', but this is not a correct denomination.

It is better to call it "法相" (fa3 xiang4), meaning "image of (commonly Buddha)"

"佛教术语，指诸法之相状，包含体相（本质）与义相（意义）二者"

Trans.

"A Buddhist term that refers to the appearance of all dharmas, including both physical appearance (essence) and righteousness (significance)"

Following this definition, a 法相 is your true self, your essence, both physical and spiritual... meaning that Smokey (little guy) is not a 'kaiju'. It is an essence, Macaque's.

Same goes to all manifestations of characters who have a version of their 法相, it's their true essence.

Yes, you got it right! This little (not so little) guy is also a 法相.

(Don't call them 'kaiju', please).

Just to add, they can also be called 'war forms', since they appear in the original jttw.

[autism-autobot]

Probably my most favorite thing about Sun Wukong is that he loves unconditionally.

In season 1, when MK actively goes behind his back to train with Macaque, he does get upset but forgives MK almost immediately.

He goes right back to loving MK, who, in all honesty, he probably wasn't too attached to at the time. He tells MK that the mistakes he made can be fixed and that they can work on that together.

Wukong somewhat does this with the Demon Bull Family as well, though most of that's background and off-screen stuff.

The first time he's in the same room as Demon Bull King since his imprisonment is naturally a little tense. Luckily, DBK got spooked by Lady Bone Demon so much that he dropped his conquering plans.

The next time he sees Wukong? Season 4 special's finale and becomes his fishing buddy! When Wukong arrives at the party with the popsicles, DBK smiles at him!

Those are the only times so far that the two interact, and Wukong isn't being actively malicious or holding a grudge or seemingly lost all affection he once had for his sworn brother.

I have personally run out of examples, but feel free to add on (hopefully involving more characters, too).

[itsabouttimex2]

Do you think that Tang Sanzang was abusive? I see it in the fandom a lot and it’s pretty contentious

The reason people think that LMK!Sanzang is abusive is because the circlet makes no sense outside the context of Sun Wukong being a borderline supervillain, and using a heavenly restraining bolt (That’s putting it kindly, of course. There’s been comparisons to shock collars, which are unflattering but not entirely unfair. Still, let’s be fair to the intention and not simply the execution of the circlet- it was to keep Wukong from murdering people/running away from the journey.) on someone who has already been punished for his wrongdoings for five full centuries is excessive as best, viciously petty at worst.

Outside of the context of Sun Wukong being a borderline supervillain, I’ll repeat.

I’m going to level right here- I think that in the book, the circlet was entirely justified, and that calling Sanzang an abuser for that is silly. But LMK is not the book, and I think it’s also silly to try and use JTTW-specific writing when people are talking about LMK. What Book!Sun Wukong is not what Show!Sun Wukong did, because the two of them are different characters in different stories. Not only that, but the tone and genre of those stories are wildly different, and I’m so tired of people being willfully ignorant to the fact that LMK is a divergent adaptation.

To start: Sun Wukong did nothing to earn the circlet.

Not in the form of “Sun Wukong has never done anything wrong ever in his life!” but really more so in the form of “Does anything in that picture up above seem wrong to you?”

And if there is something that seems off… good job! You’ve noticed a critical change from book to show!

Among the LMK fandom there’s this misconception that Wukong got the circlet because he assaulted Heaven and tried to take it over, but… no. His punishment for that was being locked under Five Phases Mountain, and then when he was released under the premise of guiding Sanzang, that was it. Punishment over. So, what did Wukong do to “earn” his collaring?

One- Smash a non-threatening tiger’s head into pulp and skin it right in front of Sanzang, then string the fur around himself.

Two- round up six people who are currently not a threat to him and beat them all to death in front of his new master.

Three- admit to his master’s face that he honestly doesn’t even remember how many people he’s killed through his life, without a speck of shame or remorse.

Four: Throw a fit and run away to sulk. I’m not fucking with you- it takes being lectured of all ONE time before he quits and gives up on self-betterment, and has to be talked into rejoining by a draconic king.

In Journey To The West, the Monkey King, well- he’s not that great of a person. In fact, he’s pretty damn bad. And he’s quite blunt about it, too. Old Sun really likes to talk in great detail about how many people he’s killed, eaten, and in general just been an absolute menace to. JTTW!Sun Wukong saw that he needed to convince his master that the girl (actually the White Bone Spirit) he killed was a demon in disguise and decided that the best way to do it was… to level out how many times he had murdered people by transforming into enticing forms.

(Source for content and translation.)

Not a good look for you, buddy.

Under the context of Sun Wukong being able, willing, and quick to murder indiscriminately, oftentimes without explanation or even giving a second thought to alternative options, the circlet as a safeguard makes sense, and Sanzang seems rational to turn to using it because not only is there not really anything else he can do, but because we get to see the Monkey King acting like someone who needs a torture circlet to keep him in check, we give him more slack for doing it.

That’s important!

If (Char A) is going to string (Char B) up with a divine shock collar but still be someone we sympathize and agree with, then (Char A) needs to have a very good reason to do it.

JTTW!Sun Wukong has that reason.

He kills people. He kills people for fun, for food, for pissing him off, for causing him trouble.

But LMK!Sun Wukong is not a killer, he’s not a cannibal, and he’s certainly not the threat that his book counterpart ever was.

When this doesn’t earn you a collar?

When butchering and serving up mortals to a horde of hungry demons more than a mile long doesn’t get you the collar, but leading a bloodless siege on Heaven does?

And speaking of blood!

Here is only one shot of the literal mountains of death that Sha Wujing built! He murdered hundreds, maybe thousands of people! And he was still going for more!

When this doesn’t get you a collar? When murder and butchery and the eating of mortals doesn’t get you a collar? When mountains of death don’t get you a collar?

But this does?

Well. That makes Heaven seem a little less reasonable.

Now, this isn’t me saying Wukong should’ve been let off the hook for trying to take over an entire realm, nor be given an immediate pass for ransacking the heavens! He caused trouble, stole things, and made a mess of the whole place! And then he led a siege against it!

No, this is me saying that the writing has accidentally predisposed the audience to think of the Celestial Realm as sort of. Well. Biased to themselves. And that could work, if the show was willing to explore it!

Is a realm’s first duty to itself, regardless of how bad things are down below? It is just incredibly hard to maintain protection of a mortal realm when it’s so much wider and more expansive than their own? Do they question if deities should even be expected to involve themselves in the lives of mortals? Do they think it’s wrong to interfere in mortal affairs? Is there a vague non-interference clause to prevent both good and evil from tipping the scales? Do they literally just not have time to help more than by the bare minimum because their heavenly duties keep them busy?

That sort of exploration could easily lean to people sympathizing with them; and thus by extension the very monk who carries out their will by journeying with his disciples, but they don’t.

In general the Celestial Realm is entirely predisposed to their own (mostly) idyllic happenings, and every time we go there it’s populated with generic armored jobbers or copy-pasted background NPCs… when it’s not gapingly empty and bare.

When the Celestial Realm legitimately is incompetent, faceless, empty, and weak? It accidentally lends sympathy to the Azure Lion’s cause by kind of… proving him right?

So not only does the Brotherhood’s act of rebellion seem less bad by manner of nearly emptying the Celestial Realm of competent/sympathetic figures, it also seems almost justified. All we ever see these guys do is stuff their faces, lose their fights, stand around doing nothing, or fuck around in heavenly leisure while the realm below is inundated with demonic threats that they never interfere to help with!

If it hadn’t been for the “Actually Azure was delusional all along and also the Jade Emperor’s power isn’t made for him!!” twist then really, what exactly is so bad about someone saying “This realm has lounged in luxury long enough!” and then deciding to take it over to help the little guys who are getting eaten by the dozens?

(I mean, just take Azure and replace him with someone like MK, with the same justification and goal, and you can imagine a lot of the fanbase agreeing, right?)

(Even Nezha, much as I adore him, only gets involved when his realm is involved first, not out of the desire to protect innocent life!)

So, when you cut away almost all of the bad things that Sun Wukong has done, accidentally make the rebellion he was partaking in seem legitimately fair by making the target incompetent, strip away the methods by which Wukong establishes his character to Sanzang that justify his willingness to use a divine implement of torture, make two of his brothers worse in comparison without giving them equal methods of restraint?

Well. The intention might not have been for him to be abusive, and I think intentions are important to keep in mind!

This is clearly not meant to be a victim of abuse. Sun Wukong’s love for his master and brothers is played entirely straight. He’s supposed to be uplifted and bettered by his relationship with them. He adores and loves and misses them.

But it’s not wrong to feel iffy about the execution, either.

Because the writers did take out all the justification behind Wukong getting his circlet. They did have Sanzang snap the circlet onto Wukong before the monkey got a chance to make any mistakes, essentially stringing him from one punishment into the next without giving him a chance to see that the first punishment has changed or helped him grow. They did make his brothers far more violent and deadly than him and not address that.

And it’s not wrong to have a worse view of Tang Sanzang as a result of that! It’s not wrong to have a negative perspective of the monk when you look at his actions from an LMK perspective, because LMK!Sanzang is NOT the same as JTTW!Sanzang, and he simply does not have the same justifications behind his actions that the book version does.

I don’t think he was abusive, at least. But I also wouldn’t blame someone for having a negative view of him.

TLDR: Intentions good, execution somewhat iffy.

[imminent-danger-came]

One detail I've noticed is that Wukong's outfit is different before and after Tripitaka places the circlet on him (and Wukong was notably unwilling to be chained):

Which is distinctly different than every other iteration of this scene we've been shown:

Other retellings of this moment have Wukong kneeling in servitude...when the reality is he was kneeling after being subdued—continuing lmk's tradition of biased/false narratives (like what was done with the multiple explanations of the samadhi fire). I think it's interesting to see the ways in which Wukong's past was made easier to swallow as time went on (or if you were Azure and didn't want to believe that Wukong had been changed by his journey lol)

[cherllyio]

I want Pigsy's Noodles to be destroyed - a very angsty theory

(Spoilers)

I theorize this can happen, because if MK really does go apeshit, that would be the final trigger.

Because that little noodle shop, is the most comfortning place for MK.

Its the place he got a place to call home.

Its the place his dad is.

Its the place where he can seek comfort.

Therefore the best way to break MK, would be to take that away.

And then imagine if Pigsy was in the building when it got destroyed-

[passions-and-pupils]

Macaque being stuck in the future

imagine how jarring it was for Macaque to be revived and suddenly BAM! Cars, phones, skyscrapers, screens everywhere. Mans died before radio and was suddenly not only thrown into the future but into a large city.

No wonder he was so set on getting revenge, Wukong was the only thing familiar to him. I doubt he was close to many other immortals and even if he was it’s pretty hard to start the conversation of “hey I know I was dead for centuries but I’m back now because of lady bone demon, y’know her, the one who wanted to destroy the world,”

I can’t imagine what it was like for him after LBD was defeated and he was on neutral terms with Macaque because of MK. Everything he was brought back for was gone but he still couldn’t go home, not really, because his home didn’t exist anymore. He died and the world moved on without him. Even Wukong had changed as much as Macaque wanted to deny it. In the end of season 3 he probably decided his new goal was to protect MK. After all he was quite a curious individual and the reason LBD wasn’t around anymore.