#Kaos Theseus

[midnight-faye]

I've just finished the tv series Kaos and I need to talk about something I loved, that no many people talked about.

SPOILERS AFTER THE CUT

One thing I really appreciated was not only a new retelling of Orpheus and Eurydice (her being tired of him and then dying without the time to break up? Genius).

But one thing was Ariadne's story. Like she doesn't need Theseus to save herself, and she can't even save him, but is still a heroine. She SAVES the minotaur and kills the dictator dad. She is a queen, ready to rule a country without the gods' help. Also, Dionysius falling for her not because she's a helpless abandoned girl, but as she fights and slaughters her own father? Yes queen.

[charms-cat]

Nitpicking Kaos

Aka "Is it so hard to have 10 seconds of Googling?"

Dislaimer: I'm not a follower of the Greek pantheon nor am I the most avid "fan" of Greek myth (putting that in quotes bcs there are still worshippers today), but oh my God. Is it so difficult to keep the most basic of information correct? I'm not gonna nitpick on how they twist certain myths (e.g. how Orpheus gets to and gets Eurydice out of the underworld) bcs it's fine, it serves the plot they're telling so it's not like they're doing it for no reason. But the names of gods? Their titles? The fact that Hera is probably the only goddess who has remained faithful to her spouse? Is it too much to ask?

EDIT: just realised just how negative this all sounds, but I did genuinely enjoy the show and its plot. It was interesting enough to captivate me for 8 whole eps, the character dynamics were intriguing, and the portrayal of the gods was cruel and I loved it since it hammers in the disconnect/lack of empathy that they feel for mortals

Anyway, here's a list of nitpicks [SPOILERS BELOW THE CUT] feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

Heracles, not Hercules

Why do people keep getting this wrong? The name of a literal Greek Goddess (Hera) is part of his name. How are you gonna make Zeus praise him, but still get his name wrong

Hestia

Why is Hestia reduced to being a fucking dog????????? Not just any dog either, she's Zeus's dog that already died, absolutely no chance of an appearance of his fifth sibling unless you wanna make it that Zeus was such a dick that he named his dog after his sister. It's not like she has a "useless" domain. She's one of the three most well-known virgin goddesses. She's the goddess of the home and hearth and of the sacrificial fire. She's the one who receives the first offering at a (domestic) sacrifice so why is she just a dog??

Hera

If I had a nickel for every time I read a retelling where she cheats on Zeus with his brother, I'd have two nickels (the first was Lore Olympus, if you're curious). Hera is supposed to represent the ideal wife, the literal goddess of lawful marriage so how the fuck can you make her be unfaithful?????????

Poseidon

Not so much a nitpick than a question, said question being "why are we acting like Poseidon doesn't have a wife, the nereid Amphitrite, queen of the seas" did they get divorced? Is that why he's lusting after Hera

Hades

He's the god of THE DEAD. Thanatos is the god of death ffs; he's the literal personification of death. Thanatos takes mortal souls, and Hades presides over said dead souls. It would've taken only a few seconds to change Hades's title card and for Persephone to call him "god of the dead" instead of the "god of death". Nothing about Hades's position even hints to him presiding over death itself. We only ever see him running the underworld (Y'know, where all the dead are?). They literally had to change nothing but his title card and what Persephone calls him

Persephone

This isn't really a nitpick on her character, but.... if she's in the underworld, shouldn't it be winter? It doesn't matter that she truly loves Hades or that she went willingly, Part of what fueled Demeter's winter is her grief over losing/being away from her daughter so why is it so damn sunny when we cut to the mortal world

Orpheus

Again, not a nitpick but a definite downplay of his musical abilities considering the fact that the song he sung to convince Hades and Persephone had literally stopped the underworld in its tracks

Prometheus

Not an egregious change, but I'll say it anyway: Wasn't he freed by Heracles during his 12 labours? It's not like he needs to be chained up, pretty sure the resentment that comes from centuries or millenia of having your liver pecked out and eaten would sustain his hatred for an equal amount of time

Minos

Their decision to make him a president instead of a king is not only unnecessary, but it makes him look like the Greek ver of Putin. I mean, they really didn't need to add in the part where Ariadne(?) says something along the lines of "you should let the people vote, they'd choose you anyway". Just... the implication that he simply declared himself president is dumb as hell. Despite Athens being the birthplace of democracy, I don't think they even had presidents in Ancient Greece. You could literally just call Minos a king and virtually nothing about the plot would even change so why bother. Is this really just their attempt at "modernising" their world/setting? It's not like we don't have kings in this day and age

Minotaur

It's true that Glaucus is a sibling of Ariadne, but the Minotaur is a whole separate sibling. The Minotaur even has his own name: Asterion/Asterius. Just another case of "why did they have to change this?" Literally just swap out the name "Glaucus" for "Asterion" and not only will (yet again) virtually nothing about the plot change, but it would be more mythologically accurate and less confusing for people who do know the myths. In fact, it could've been a fun hint for people who know the myths to clock what really happened to "Glaucus" early on, but still have them questioning "how did he become the Minotaur in this version?"

Pasiphae/Pas

Ngl I'm kinda sad that Pas seems to be just a normal mortal woman bcs, in Greek myth, she was a sorceress-goddess, the daughter of Helios. Plus, although I think it's kinda fucked up that she was forced to fuck/be fucked by the Cretan bull (bcs being "made to fall in love" is not the same as "falling in love"), I think it would've been interesting to explore not only her grief over losing a child, but the grief that comes from realising that he never was and never could be accepted by either Gods or mortals. Also, it would've made her obsession over him look slightly less selfish (and lowkey creepy) if we found out that part of the reason was that she knew her son could never live among humans as half-man, half-bull so she resorted to making wax figures that would've at least let her imagine what it would've been like if he wasn't the result of divine punishment

Theseus

Was literally just an Easter egg. Downgraded from a prince of Athens to a Cretan bodyguard. Didn't even do his most notable act (killing the Minotaur) or even get sent to the Labyrinth in the first place. Makes him feel very much like a character that the writers added just to say, "Look! Look, we know Greek myth!" Especially since Theseus disappeared into thin air after the Trojan 7 were arrested. I don't think they even showed him in the crowd with Andromache, mourning Astyanax

Non-character Nitpicks (yeah, I got more)

Bees

Not really bothered by this, but I'm pretty sure that bees aren't even one of Hera's sacred animals. They could've made it peacocks, make the birds wander the grounds and when the reveal drops, the symbol of opulence turns into an unabashed display of cruelty

Ichor

Admittedly, the colour of ichor in Ancient Greek texts has always been ambiguous. But I feel like it would've been an interesting visual for their blood to be a non-red colour; maybe the popular gold, for example. Bcs it would've A) drawn a clear line between Gods and mortals and further "validated" the Gods' hubris by serving as visual proof that there's an undeniable difference between them and the mortals; and B) would've really caused Zeus to panic when he saw that his blood was red instead of gold, make him think that he's becoming mortal, vulnerable, weak

Styx

Minor nitpick, but isn't the sentence for not being able to pay the toll only 100 years, not 200? Why the extra 100 years? Why even change this? If they really wanted to make it feel like a long sentence, then they should've gone for 500 or 1000 years. Living even just 100 years of doing the same thing with no variation or even the choice to opt out, or even being able to taste anything, would start feeling hellish sooner than you might think

Couples

This might just be the aromantic in me, but why is there so much romance???? And it's between couples that never existed in the OG myths

1. Hera/Poseidon - why??? I've already talked about how it goes against Hera's character, but if they really wanted them to have a "deep" relationship, they're literally siblings?? They could just bond over having to be the ones that keep Zeus in line or being the only ones responsible for actually ruling their realms (bcs Amphitrite is nowhere to be found). They didn't need to insult Hera's character like that

2. Theseus/Astyanax - I'd have less problem with this if it didn't seem like Theseus wanted Ari to only save Nax instead of all 7 Trojans. It makes it feel like they're fueling the idea that a person would only be desperate to save the person they love romantically. E.g., a husband saving his wife, but not someone saving their best friend

3. Prometheus/Charon - same problem as the Theseus/Nax ship, especially with the added line that Prometheus needs to rely on "someone who will do anything for you" (or sumn like that). Like,,,, you can do that for your friend too, y'know. It's not out of the realm of possibility to miss your friend or love them so deeply that you'd do anything for them. It's literally a well-known joke(?) that there are friends who'd help you hide the body. It'd just be a more intense ver of that between Charon and Prometheus. They didn't need to be romantic to showcase Charon's trust in and dedication to helping Prometheus

4. Caeneus/Eurydice - I'm so tired of people falling in love in less than a week (I don't think this relationship even reached a full three days). Iirc y'all had a grand total of 6 conversations - first at the Frame, second meeting when Riddy introduces herself as a diver, third at the party, fourth when they're sitting on the bench, fifth when they have their short escapade to the Nothing, sixth in Caeneus's bedroom.

I mean,,,,, I get that they shared meaningful conversations, but I swear none of said conversations even lasted more than 5 minutes so where on Earth is this "love" coming from?? Y'all have barely scratched the surface of what you know of each other but you think you're connected??? Get real

Ending on a positive note

I actually love the Furies and the Fates. The Furies more for their looks and their vibe and especially the Fates for their (literal) know-it-all nonchalant attitude. I hope they come back next season.

The set design and colouring is also top tier, from the underworld filtered in black and white and looking industrial and office-like to the vibrant colours and festivity of Earth to the opulence of Olympus

Some actual trans and disability rep! I've been burned before with the trans rep since the Netflix adaptation of "Alice in Borderlands" has a cis woman playing a transfem, but Misia Butler is an actual transmasc! [Nobody argue that AIB couldn't have an actual transfem bcs of Japan's transphobia bcs I can tell you what's not helping trans rights: having cis women play transfem roles, thinking it makes no difference anyway. Good rep can pave the way for acceptance]

The disability rep in actors is so fucking bad that I genuinely thought most people with disabilities just didn't become actors. I only knew that the daughter in "A Quiet Place" was actually deaf bcs I went to look it up. Anyway, hope Mat Fraser (Daedalus aka only decent father figure) comes back bcs no way he actually got eaten, right? Right????

[assignedpeanutallergyatbirth]

Need someone talented to make an edit for Kaos (specifically Riddy/Caeneus, Nax/Theseus, and/or Prometheus/Charon) to “Sailor Song” by Gigi Perez

I mean “I don’t believe in god but I believe that you’re my savior”

Please tell me someone sees the vision

[emily84]

Couples in Kaos (Netflix, 2024-?).

[randomling]

Okay one of the many things I really like about Kaos.

(Spoilers below!)

Ariadne wants to fuck Theseus. But when she finds out he's with Nax, it's no more of a big drama than if she'd found out he was with a woman. She has a clear moment of "...oh" and she's cold with him afterwards, but that's clearly as much about the betrayal and setup as it is about her thwarted libido, though that does seem to factor into why she's hurt.

People are just allowed to be gay, without comment or judgement.

And they're also allowed to be trans. There is *no* discussion of Riddy fucking Caeneus, in the context of him being trans. *None.* No hand-wringing about what it means for Riddy's sexuality. Nothing but acceptance of who he is. We are given no more reason to believe Riddy is anything other than straight after they've had sex. (There's no particular confirmation that she's straight either, but then again there usually isn't.)

That's another nice thing - the story doesn't make Caeneus's gender about his partner or her orientation. Caeneus's gender and transition are about *him*.

I'm a gay (...iiiiish) trans man and I absolutely love this.

[sarafangirlart]

I think another thing that goes against Kaos as a show isn’t the writing itself but Netflix being Hellbent on making tv shows shorter and like “really long movies” where the story isn’t episodic even tho it’s cut into episodes therefore the pacing is so confusing to the point that an entire side plot isn’t brought up for a whole episode or two.

Not to mention that it makes the character interactions bare bones and bland, if you want to write relationships that aren’t canon in mythology, fine, whatever, just give me good reason to care about this couple. Supergiant’s Hades (for all its flaws) succeeds at this.

We are supposed to be sad about Prometheus and Charon separating but we literally see them as a couple for like what? Five minutes? The show doesn’t give us enough time to gaf about their relationship other than it’s “good representation” to have two old men in a relationship.

Eurydice and Caeneus have known each other for what couldn’t be more than a couple of days then see the Nothing and have their entire world view shattered then they fall in love and have sex? Only for Orpheus to be going through hell and back trying to get his wife back so how tf are we supposed to be invested in Eurydice cheating? Again the show doesn’t give us good reason to care for this couple other than its good representation.

Bruh don’t even get me started on Theseus and Astyanax, that’s the most bare bones of them all, I didn’t even catch that they were a couple until they had sex. Theseus has more screen time and chemistry with Ariadne than his supposed lover. Also stop trying to make good guy Theseus happen, it’s not going to happen.

The only fanon relationship that makes logical sense (as in within the story but as an adaptation it’s dog shit and I hate it) is Hera and Poseidon, they actually get multiple scenes and dialogue together so even if you are like me and hate to see them as a couple, it still makes logical sense for them as characters to like each other, but only if you don’t think of them as an adaptation.

[cheekyboybeth]

Nax and Theseus were just celebrating being saved and then the people who gave them mercy just took it back and ripped Nax out of Theseus’ arms

I’m sobbing rn

I’ve never liked Posideon and this makes that dislike for him so much deeper

[cjbolan]

My only 2 nitpicks for Kaos are ...

*WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD*

1) Thesus was useless. I thought he'd play some part in killing the Minotaur. I was expecting Minos to offer Theseus his freedom from prison in return for killing the Minotaur for him. Or Theseus being a security guard helps guide Minos through the labyrinth in exchange for his freedom. I assume Theseus was in prison after his arrest in Troytown?

2) Pasiphae got off too easy. She deserves some comeuppance for hating her daughter all those years for an alleged accident. She owed Ari an apology. Otherwise if I were Ari I'd go limited/no contact with a mother who hated me all my life.

[silverbirching]

I will never forgive Kaos for making Theseus hot.

DON'T THINK YOU CAN GET AROUND ME BY BEING A HOT GAY PERSON OF COLOR, THESEUS, I KNOW YOU'RE STILL THE WORST SOMEHOW.

[libraryleopard]

I keep wondering what happened to Theseus in Kaos after episode 3 since we never seen him after the police come arrest the Trojan Seven for the second time and I’ve come to the conclusion that I think the most interesting answer would be that he’s gone to Athens and becomes an enemy of Crete as a result of Minos killing Nax.

[sapphic-terror]

I’m fighting the urge to make a poly fic between Ari/Theseus/Nax bc Theseus has two hands and also Ari needs some influence to change the world. (I’ve watched four episodes of Kaos on Netflix and I love it) ((I’ll check back later to see how disastrous this idea may be)) (((I am not afraid to diverge canon so fucking much)))

*edit literally point .2 seconds later Nax is fucking dead. I’m gonna diverge canon so badly. (Plot twist they meet five years early and shit happens)

[koresflowers]

the fact that nax&theseus were banging eachother and in the next scene the police was at their door and then they were hanged is just wild.AND THE FACT THAT ARI WANTED TO BANG THESEUS IS ALSO INSANE(she didn’t even know he was gay)

[assignedpeanutallergyatbirth]

🚨🚨SPOILERS FOR KAOS🚨🚨

I’ve been thinking about the decision to have Theseus and Nax in a relationship. Bc it’s really touching the way that the show portrays Theseus and Nax. The scenes that they show are intimate and sweet. And obviously it’s important for Ari’s story. But I think having this relationship explicitly really heightened the emotional impact of the show. For me, this depiction allowed me to become really invested in Nax’s character, and I really wanted it to work out for the two of them.

Which then made Nax’s experience in the Underworld so much more painful and poignant. Bc I was invested in the relationship between Theseus and Nax. I wanted them to have a happy ending. But they won’t. They don’t get a reunion in Asphodel. They don’t get to find each other in their next lives. They don’t get to follow any of the fairytale or soulmate tropes. Their love doesn’t get to defy death or the gods.

And Nax came so close! The Frame didn’t work. He escaped the Nothingness. And we had to see the terror on his face, terror that wasn’t there at the thought of his mortal death. We had to hear his pain.

It really drove home the tragedy of The Frame. And the depth of the lies told by the gods. By creating an interest and attachment to Nax, by showing what he has to lose, it shows what is lost for the gods to remain immortal. This is the tragedy of the show.

[emily84]

Kaos (Netflix, 2024-?)

[sugarcube-stillabookworm]

ASTYANAX

ASTYANAX ASTYANAX ASTYANAX ASTYANAX

i cannot express in words how much i fucking love this

[sarafangirlart]

I can’t believe I’m offended on Theseus’s behalf over how he doesn’t kill the Minotaur in Kaos.