#John raised Sam and Dean isolated from the rest of the world

[completelymindfucked]

“Those boys, they seem strange to you?”

[jinkieswouldyoulookatthis]

This always bothered me, yeah, yeah, I know, it bothers everyone, it's supposed to, right? But I don't just mean the fact that John laid that on Dean, which was deeply fucked up. No, what I mean was that it bothers me that John would ever, could ever, think that Dean even could kill Sam... like, ever. Because does John not actually know Dean? Has he not paid any attention to him at all over the last 22 years that they've had only each other to rely on and live with? John's single-minded, laser focused, sure, but he's not stupid. The show goes out of its way to show us how smart and observant John actually was when Ash is impressed that John identified demon signs and used them to track demon activity the way he did. John notices things and puts shit together. He is strategic. So I think it is safe to assume that he would have known that there was no fucking way that his oldest son could ever knowingly or willingly harm his younger son. So what if, what if John told Dean this, knowing Dean would never accept killing Sam, in order to light a fire under Dean and make sure that he saved Sam no matter what? I do not believe it was ever John's intention for Sam to die, that he'd kept his boys (particularly Sam) mostly isolated from the rest of the hunters, and that he'd encouraged and reinforced Dean's natural protectiveness of Sam, his attachment to Sam, to guarantee that Dean would continue to protect Sam and prevent anything bad from happening to Sam (or Sam from doing/becoming something bad himself). Because no matter how questionable John's parenting was (and it was) he definitely, 100% without a doubt, loved his boys. He loved both of them so much. He was just a man who was torn apart by grief and fear, who didn't know how else to raise his boys to make sure they survived in a world filled with monsters. So I think, in the end, he needed Dean to be afraid, to feel backed into a corner, to make certain that Dean fought like hell to save his brother. And you know what? It worked.

Dean! Dad told you to do it, you have to! Yeah, well, Dad's an ass! He never should have said anything. I mean, you don't do that, you don't, you don't lay that kind of crap on your kids!

2.01 In My Time Of Dying + 2.11 Playthings

[norahastuff]

penny for your thoughts on salmondean codependency ?

Sure. Fair warning it’s long (was longer but I stopped myself.)

I think it’s complicated in a show that’s had so many different showrunners because they’ve all handled Sam and Dean’s relationship very differently. In Kripke’s era (s1-5) there was a romanticization of the bond. Sure there was a lot of in-depth exploration of how they wound up at the place they were at, spoiler alert: it was all because of John and his obsessive crusade to find the demon that killed his wife. That’s all he cared about and as a result, Sam and Dean had to be everything to each other. But Kripke had no intention of dismantling that at any point because he was (and always had been) writing a tragedy. Gamble continued that too. There was no room for anyone else in their lives and it would always just be the two of them against the world. So Cas had to go. Bobby had to go.

(Actually, it's funny because Gamble didn't intend this at the time, her plan was to kill Cas off, but by Edlund creating the masterpiece that is The Man Who Would Be King, he not only saved Cas from being seen as a villain, but he also deepened Dean and Cas' relationship in such a profound way and inextricably linked the two of them emotionally. And since Cas was eventually brought back, that laid the foundation for a lot of what their relationship would become.)

Up until this point, there hadn’t really been any significant dismantling of perhaps the more unhealthy parts of Sam and Dean’s relationship. Enter Carver. He stripped things down and started to explore what drove these characters. What they wanted and why they couldn’t have it. It starts with Dean being mad at Sam for not looking for him in purgatory, which sets up the whole speech in the s8 finale of Sam’s guilt about letting Dean down, but the thing is, Dean was never honest with Sam about his year away either. He never told Sam he could have gotten out much sooner if he hadn’t stayed to find Cas. I mean Dean had assumed Sam was up there alone doing God knows what to try to bring him back, and yet still he stayed in Purgatory because things were clear there. He needed Cas. Anyway, I just find that interesting, but Cas isn’t a victim of Sam and Dean’s relationship in s8.

Who gets the honour of being cast aside? That would be Benny and Amelia, two characters they introduced in s8 specifically to highlight that Sam and Dean’s relationship doesn’t allow for anyone else to be a significant part of their life. I mean that’s nothing new, we’ve watched that happen many times before. Lisa even said as much to Dean. The thing is this time? It’s framed as a truly sad thing. That moment at the end of 8x10 when Dean has just ended things with Benny and Sam leaves Amelia, and they’re sitting alone drinking beer and watching tv is such a hollow empty moment. This is not what they want. But it’s the way things have to be.

I’m actually fascinated by Sam and Dean’s conversation in the church in the s8 finale. Not so much Dean’s assertion that there is no one else he would put before Sam, but more so what provokes it, which is Sam saying “who are you going to turn to instead of me. Another angel? Another vampire?” See the thing is Dean saying he would always put Sam first is not news. We know this and it’s not really an unhealthy statement in itself either. A lot of people would put their sibling above anything else, not less a sibling who you raised and is the most important person to you. But in this context? After what Sam said? It just highlights how unhealthy they are if Sam believes that Dean having other people in his life means he doesn’t love him enough. That he’s a disappointment to him. That’s so profoundly fucked up.

(Note, Dean tells Sam that he killed Benny for him but he doesn’t say anything about Cas. I think like I said before, this is because Cas and Dean’s relationship has largely existed out of the Sam and Dean stuff up to this point - Sam and Cas don’t even really have much of a relationship yet besides both of their connections to Dean.)

And then from here, things start getting steadily worse. But we also keep being shown how bad they are. Dean lying to Sam, taking away his free will by letting Gadreel possess him. Dean sending Cas away, Kevin dying. It’s all awful. The whole “there ain’t no me if there ain’t no you line” from 9x01 isn’t really said by Dean, it’s Gadreel, but that is how Dean feels. He does think that’s all he’s good for. And over the season we’re shown how much of himself and what he truly wants he’s had to give up because of his ingrained “Save Sammy” and “Sammy comes first” mentality. It’s always been this way for him. In 9x07 we see that he had found a happy home, a good father figure, and his first love, a first love might I add that he had to leave behind with no real explanation because Sam needed him, and Sam comes first.

I mean just one episode earlier we had him rushing out the door elated about seeing Cas and spending time with him, only for their time together to come to sad and melancholic end when Dean once again leaves Cas behind without any real explanation, because despite what he wants Sammy comes first. What he wants doesn’t matter.

See I think after the Gadreel stuff comes out is where the narrative starts to get a little wonky for me. You can clearly see that this was intended to be a shorter story that they ended up stretching out to a much longer one because of renewals. There’s also the fact that this is a formula show so they can’t necessarily be separated for longer than an episode or two. S10 is a rough one to get through at times, I think the themes still mostly hold up but it’s a rough one to get through.

S10 highlights all the connections that Dean has, Cas, Charlie, Crowley even, but Sam doesn’t really have those bonds in the same way.  For Sam it’s just Dean, so he goes down a reckless destructive “do anything to save Dean!” path and so many innocents pay the price, and ultimately with the release of The Darkness, the whole world.

They skirted right up to the edge of exploring just how toxic and dangerous their relationship had become in the season 10 finale.

DEAN: I let Rudy die. How was that not evil? I know what I am, Sam. But who were you when you drove that man to sell his soul... Or when you bullied Charlie into getting herself killed? And to what end? A..a good end? A just end? To remove the Mark no matter what the consequences? Sam, how is that not evil? I have this thing on my arm, and you're willing to let the Darkness into the world.

I can’t say evil is the right word, they were never evil, but they were wilfully blind to everything and everyone else when it came to saving each other. S10 tested my love for the show because after watching it, because there was certainly a feeling that the two of them had become the villains of this story. And don’t get me wrong, I didn’t have a problem with that, it’s just after 2 seasons of this I can’t say I had a lot of faith that this was going to be properly addressed or if we were going to keep going in circles around it. Keep being shown, it’s bad and then nothing much being done to fix it. Your mileage may vary on how it was handled, but I think s11 did a relatively ok job considering it wasn’t the end of the story, and the show needed to keep going.

See from Dean’s side a lot of the codependency rests on 1. His father’s orders to always save Sammy 2. His low self-esteem where he sees himself as nothing but a blunt instrument. 3. His guilt at not being able to perfectly fulfil every familial role in Sam’s life 4. His belief that no one could choose to love him but family has to love you. 5. The unhealthy example of what it should look like to love someone that he got from John. You give up everything but them.

For Sam (and honestly it’s not as clear for me as Dean’s side is so feel free to correct me/disagree on this) 1. Everytime he’s tried to leave and create his own life it’s never ended well. 2. His guilt over wanting freedom and a normal life when he was younger (I’m referring specifically to Stanford era here) 3. His guilt over everything Dean has given up for him. 4. John. 5. Jess.

Ultimately it all comes down to isolation. They both had to be everything to each other, and the deeper they got into this fight, the more people that they lost, the tighter they clung to this notion of family and brothers. I think s11 (and 11x23 in particular) was an important turning point, both for Sam and Dean’s relationship, as well as for them as individuals. Because they weren’t alone there anymore. Cas was there. Sam let Dean walk to his death. Of course, it would devastate him, but he knew it was what had to be done. And he didn’t walk out of that bar and go back to the bunker alone. He had Cas, he had someone who cared about him and wanted to help him and talk to him. Sure Dean asked Cas to take care of Sam for him (you know after Cas offered to walk to his death with him) but Sam let him. He let him be there for him. We didn’t get to see much before the BMOL showed up and blasted Cas away, but still, we saw enough.

I think that’s a significant difference to note why their relationship was different in the Dabb era. It wasn’t just them anymore. Cas was an important member of their family and given a level of importance he’d never been given before and couldn’t have been when the story they were telling was of the dangers of their codependency. Mary was back. Eventually, Jack would become a part of their unit too. Just the two of them wasn’t enough for them anymore. This is made abundantly clear with all of Dean’s desperate attempts to get Cas to stay in s12, followed by his inability to keep going when they lose Cas and Mary in s13. Similarly, Sam really struggles when they lose Jack and fail to get Mary back later in the season.

Another big moment is Dean letting Sam go alone to lead the hunters against the BMOL in 12x22 while he stays back to try and reach Mary. Like he tells Mary, he’s had to be a brother, a father and a mother to Sam and he never stopped seeing him as his kid, but in that moment he makes a choice. He lets Sam take charge and he shows that he trusts him and believes in him. He knows he can handle it.

Sometimes it’s not even a character growth thing. Sometimes having other people there stops you from making destructive choices even though that’s still your first instinct. I’m thinking specifically of 13x21 after Sam was killed. Dean would have run headlong into that nest of vampires and got himself torn apart, but Cas was there to stop him. He was able to make him see reason.

Basically, I think that for a long time, they thought the only relationship they could have was each other, which then became a self-fulfilling prophecy because their desperate attempts to keep each other around led to them losing the people around them. They eventually started to learn that that wasn’t true, they could have more, they were allowed to want more, and that it wasn’t an either-or situation. Dean didn’t have to choose between Sam and Cas. They didn’t have to choose between each other or Jack. The same goes for Mary. Different relationships can coexist without threatening each other, and not say that their relationship in s12-15 was all smooth sailing, but it was certainly so very different from everything that came before.

(There’s maybe a point to be made about how they didn’t have anyone or anything in the finale and how that relates to the story we got, but honestly I have no idea what the intention was with any of the choices made in that episode so I’ll leave it at that for now.)

[katsidhe]

Ranking Every SPN Season Finale

15) 11.23 Alpha and Omega. Dead last because not only is Chuck and Amara’s conflict defanged with a frankly silly anticlimax, but a lot of runtime is eaten up with establishing Lady Toni getting on a plane. The great weakness of an otherwise very strong season is that none of the awful compromises Sam and Dean and Cas made (especially Sam wrt Lucifer) ended up having relevance at all.

14) 9.23 Do You Believe In Miracles. Cheesy dying dialogue, Metatron hamming it up for way too long, that facepalming “the radio was on the whole! time!” twist, uncertainty as to the motivation of the whole confrontation that ends in Dean’s death. Also, this is the beginning of the end of walking back the beautiful work the rest of s9 established, with Sam saying things like “I lied.” I don’t like Dean’s death here at all, in staging, or conceptually, or thematically.

13) 12.23 All Along The Watchtower. I am basically obliged to put this in C tier because it is quite silly, but frankly, I like it more than its ranking deserves. It has the late season finale sin of cramming in an introduction to next season’s conflict in the middle of wrapping up this season’s—but it’s absolutely hilarious that they brought in multiverse portals. And for Sam and Dean, thank god the portal appeared, because otherwise they had absolutely no plan whatsoever to deal with Lucifer, and they probably would have died gruesomely. High points: Sam discovering Rowena’s death on the phone with Lucifer; the spooky introduction of Jack, the raised stakes with Mary trapped with Lucifer. Lowest point: the utter silly pointlessness of Cas’s death.

12) 10.23 Brother’s Keeper. This is the finale that I have the strongest mixed feelings about. There is a queasy lack of self-awareness in the treacly sentiment when Sam presents family photos as evidence of Dean’s goodness. The excuse of MOC!Dean as not the “real” Dean allows for the reasons behind this confrontation to be elided, even as its themes are echoed again and again. The chilling horror of Sam on his knees in front of Dean the executioner is potent and darkly enjoyable, but the instant redirection into attacking Death prevents any kind of real culmination. I can’t decide if I like this episode or loathe it, but I do think I appreciate it more now, after 14.20 and 15.17, than I did when it aired. 

11) 7.23 Survival of the Fittest. We’re on to B-tier! There’s nothing significantly wrong with 7.23. Meg crashes the Impala through a glass sign, so that’s fun. Kevin’s there. There’s action, there’s some cool stakes for next season established, Sam is left alone, which I love. The main sin here is just that most of it is fairly forgettable, because the strongest part of s7 was always the psychological drama of the Winchesters’ disintegration and isolation, not the physical conflict with Leviathans.

10) 14.20 Moriah. Lots of my points about 10.23 apply here, but Moriah is a much better episode, both because there is actual conflict of opinion, and because there is a lot more built-in uncertainty about Jack’s fate than Sam’s. Jack and Dean are onboard with Jack’s murder, just as Sam and Dean were agreed on Sam’s death in 10.23, but this time Cas is staunchly against it, and Sam is on the fence, torn as to how to intervene. So it’s much better drama. But then the crux of the issue gets defanged by Chuck’s reveal. Great s15 setup, but kicks the 14.17-14.19 build down the road. Extra points for Sam shooting God. 

9) 13.23 Let the Good Times Roll. I fucking love the 13.21-13.23 arc. The only thing preventing 13.23 from being A-tier are some wholly avoidable mistakes. The staging is silly; a face-palming amount of time was wasted on Maggie; the wires were a deeply regrettable choice. But even with all that, what we got was great, actually! The Sam-Jack-Lucifer church custody battle is still my favorite goddamn thing. Dean saying yes to Michael was both his only smart move and a devastating sacrifice. The character dynamics here are so JUICY. 13.21-14.01 is, IMO, one of the most fertile grounds for fic and speculation in the entire show.

8) 2.22 All Hell Breaks Loose, Part Two. Now we’re into finales that are fantastic without reservation. Off the devastation of Sam’s death comes Dean’s iconic deal. The actual confrontation in the graveyard is good too, though it’s second to the way we’re all reeling from part one. Azazel dies, Sam and Dean are bloodied and facing down new stakes. The only thing I dislike about this episode is John’s cameo.

7) 1.22 Devil’s Trap. This is the episode that ups the ante! Azazel in John, and Dean, and Sam, and the delicious family dynamic here; the stakes are so personal, and it’s a great examination what each of them is willing to pay for their quest: an electrifying taste of what’s to come. And the music, and the sheer fucking balls of just, crashing a goddamn truck into your main characters at the end of the first season. Nice.

6) 3.16 No Rest for the Wicked. Lilith is delightfully evil. We’re on tenterhooks for Sam to save Dean, we’re narratively primed to expect him to pull off something amazing, a last-minute miracle. But—nope! Sorry! Dean gets graphically ripped apart onscreen and now he’s being tortured in Hell! Shocking and bold, and a crucial turning point in the series. 

5) 4.22 Lucifer Rising. Fresh off 4.21 comes an excellent culmination of season 4′s devastation. The reveals from both Ruby and the angels, Sam draining the possessed nurse, Cas at last choosing to betray Heaven, and the final arrival of Lucifer: it all just works, really well. 

4) 15.20 Carry On. Part of the reason I’m ranking this so highly might be spite. But goddammit, bad wig and worse Carry On cover aside, this is a good episode, and a really, really good series finale! The deliberate anticlimax of Dean’s death, the quiet strength in Sam’s grief, the untroubled, unrushed pacing of Sam’s recovery and aging, and Dean’s drive. Supernatural said Sam Rights, and I wept like a tiny little baby. 

3) 6.22 The Man Who Knew Too Much. Adventures in Sam’s mind! Cas and Crowley and Raphael and the double cross! The taste of cosmic horror! The end of season 6 and beginning of season 7, as Sam and Dean cope simultaneously with Sam’s psychological fallout and the consequences of their most powerful ally going off the rails, is fantastic. I love the literalism and the symbolism of Sam’s reintegration: this is an unapologetically Sam episode (as are the other top four, come to think of it). 

2) 8.23 Sacrifice. Sam’s heartbreaking deterioration in the church and Crowley’s disintegration are an electrifying climax to the trials. Dean and Sam’s final exchange is a breathtaking combination of raw emotion and delirium and a fascinating guilt trip. It’s a visually and conceptually stunning episode: the angels fall burning against a night sky; Sam surrenders the trials and collapses, dying. 

1) 5.22 Swan Song. You knew this would be number one, I knew this would be number one, we all knew this would be number one. It’s iconic for a reason. Sam and Lucifer talking through a mirror; the loss of all hope and the sky-high stakes. Stull Cemetery is the defining moment of so, so much of the rest of the series. Dean’s loyalty gives Sam the strength he needs to bury himself alive forever with his worst nightmare, and it saves the world, and it’s the highest cost either of them has ever paid.  

[ladyfiresfanfiction]

Moth to a Flame - Supernatural Fan Fic - John Winchester and Castiel x OCs

The night was suppose to be a strict girls night. Willow Skye and her best friend, Dana Baker, were going to have a relaxing night in their brand new place in Kansas. It had been torn down and rebuilt two years ago, and it was the lowest priced house within ten miles of their hometown of Lawrence. 

 Willow didn't know what, but something drew her to the house. It was like a moth to a flame, she didn't understand why, but for the price of the place, she wasn't going to ask questions. Dana moved in with her after their junior year of college started. They were scraping money together to survive alone, so they decided moving in together was going to be a wonderful idea. No more struggling, and they could live together. That was one thing on each other's bucket list, and now they could proudly scratch it off. But Dana didn't like the house. She said it felt ominous. Something was wrong, but she couldn't put her finger on it. Willow, being the ever stubborn optimist, said her friend was being silly. The house was a steal and it was beautiful. But deep down, Willow had the same feelings, but she decided to bury them deep in the back of her mind and enjoy her own home. It was a dreary Friday in October, exam week had finally ended and both girls' heads were spinning. They weren't in the mood to hit up Lawrence's night life. Instead, they were going to grab a couple pizzas, two six packs of smirnoff ice apple, and watch horror movies and play video games. It was the perfect night. They got all the classics, like the nightmare on elm street series, the exorcist, and new favorites like Paranormal Activity. They ordered two large cheese pizzas, and stocked their booze in the fridge. As it hit ten o'clock, they went through their first movie. Terrified, Dana began to beat Willow with a pillow and accuse her of turning out the lights, although she was sitting no more than two feet from her on their leather couch. "Damn it, Dana, quit!" Willow yelped. "You fucking did something to the lights, Pixie!" Dana shrieked. "Oh for the love of God, one bad haircut and I'm stuck with that horrible nickname forever." Willow growled. "Ha! You changed the subject!" Dana said, taking a swig of her smirnoff. "Yeah I did, dumbass, because I'm sitting right here and haven't moved in two and a half hours. Now tell me, how did I fuck with the lights?" "I.. Well.. Oh fuck you." she said with a mouthful of pizza. There was a loud bang from the upstairs bedroom, Willow's bedroom. Willow and Dana looked at each other, growing very pale. Outside the storm was raging and lightening kept cracking every ten seconds. Thunder boomed and made the windows rattle, and rain pounded the window pane with rage. The power went out after the second bang from the upstairs. Both girls were terrified now. "W-what the fuck?" Dana stammered. "I.. I don't know." Willow whispered. "I'm fucking scared, dude." she said, wrapping her hands around her friends arm so tight Willow was losing circulation. "I'm no good dead, Dana. Let go of my arm." she said. They started for the stairs, holding a lighter and trying to keep their dinner down. Dana glanced outside and saw a beautiful Impala on the side of the road. She thought it looked familiar. She saw the car door open and four men get out. Before she could tell Willow, Willow had raced up the stairs on the third bang. The front door was kicked down and Dana screamed her head off. "Hey, hey! It's us!" A man with deep hazel eyes said. "DEAN!? I swear to fuck I will kill you if you EVER-" "No time for that sweetheart, where's your friend?" he asked. "Upstairs." she said, nervously. "I'll go with dad, you and Cas stay with, uh, what's your name?" a tall man with shaggy brown hair asked. "Dana. I only told you a dozen times when you interrogated me this afternoon." she snapped. The man, who she assumed was Cas, stared at her with big blue eyes and studied her. If this wasn't one of the scariest nights of her life, she would have gone over there and flirted with him. Instead, she just smiled and then peered upstairs. It was too quiet. Dean went into the kitchen, and Cas stood a few feet from Dana. She didn't know if she should trust these men, but she had no choice since they broke in to her house. "Cas?" she asked. "Yes. Dana?" he replied. "Yep, that's me." she smiled, stepping closer to him. "So your friend knows about the demon?" he asked. "DEMON!? WHAT!? A DEMON. A FUCKING DEMON IN MY HOUSE?" Dana shrieked. "You didn't-" "A FUCKING DEMON? Like, like those nasty pointy eared motherfuckers who like to.. to.. To fucking pounce on unsuspecting girls like Willow and I?" Dana rambled in a panic. "Good going, Cas. This is why I tell you to keep your mouth shut." Dean said, walking into the living room again. Dean took the mumbling Dana into the kitchen to explain. The house that was on the grounds before this was his family's. He didn't go into too much detail, only enough to make Dana try to flee from the house in a pair of daisy duke shorts and a system of a down tank top. Cas ran after her and brought her back inside, although she scratched his face to Hell. "Look, you're going to be alright. Dean and his brother and father are the best at getting rid of these things. Plus, well, I'm an angel. So, I'm pretty helpful at kicking Demon ass." Cas grinned at her. "Angel? Look buddy you may look like a very delicious.. heavenly.. God given gift to women but you are NOT an ANGEL." She barked. "God given gift to women? Seriously?" Dean looked at her. The next thing they heard was Willow's high pitched scream and her flying down the stairs. She too tried to escape, but Dean's father grabbed her by the waist and took her to the couch. She slapped him across the face while swearing at him, trying to fight him off and escape, not only from him, but the damned house, too. He had to pin her down with his own body and he began to whisper in her ear. She finally stopped struggling, and she looked up at him with fear eminating from her aqua-golden eyes. He helped her to her feet and brought her over to where Dana, Dean, and Cas stood. "Where's Sam?" Dean asked. "He's putting salt in all the rooms upstairs. Stay with the girls, I'm going to help him. "No! I'm coming with you." Willow piped up, grabbing his hand. He looked from her hand in his, to her eyes. He shook his head and got her to let him go before trotting upstairs. Dana still stared at Cas in awe. If he really was an angel, then she had to rethink everything. She had been raised as a catholic, but when she hit her teens, she considered herself an atheist. She never had reason to believe in God or Angels, or even the Devil and Demons. She scoffed at anyones mere thought of them existing. But now, she wasn't so sure. "I'm going to help, um, what's his name." Willow said. "His name is John, and no you're not." Dean said. "Oh, I would just love for you to try and stop me." Willow snapped. "Is that a dare, or a double dare sweet heart?" he asked, taking a step closer to her. "You come near me and you'll be missing your manhood, pal." "I'd listen to her, Dean. She's kind of.. um, well.. a bitch." "Thanks, Dana." Willow murmured. The lights came on, blindingly white. It made Willow cover her eyes and trip backwards, falling on her ass. The light went back to it's natural wattage and Dana helped her friend to her feet. Willow dragged her to the isolated edge of the livingroom, right near the couch and started to whisper fiercely. "Who are these guys? Demons? Seriously?" Willow asked. "I know, dude. They showed up after my World Religions class, ironically enough. At first they said they were with the health department, but then the blue eyed one slipped and said the house had something evil. I didn't give it a second thought. But then when all the weird shit started happening, I saw their car and well, you know the rest." she explained. "Dude, what if this is because we can see shit? I mean, plus my messing with Witchcraft when I was fourteen.." Willow replied. "Hey, Dean said whatever this thing is, was here way before us. It's always been here, so quit thinking this is your fault." Dana said, giving Willow a hug. They joined the guys at the foot of the stairs. It was quiet, and the lights were off. The shaggy haired guy, named Sam, came down and he had a cut on his cheek. Dean and Sam went to their car to load up on what they called "an arsenal of weapons against our little house guest", and Cas stood by Dana. Willow smirked as she saw her friend grow a light pink and then tried going upstairs. "No. No fucking way, Pixie." Dana gasped, and grabbed her friends arm. "Number one, call me Pixie when John is around and you don't have to worry about the demons getting you, because I will first. Number two, I'm a grown ass woman and I paid for this house, I'm going." "I didn't know you were a fairy." Cas said, rather child like. "Excuse me? I'm not a Fairy you twat!" "Willow, he's an Angel! He doesn't know any better!" Dana snapped. "Whatever, see you ladies in a bit, I'm going to find John." Willow said, and ran upstairs. Cas and Dana sat on the couch, fidgeting. Cas looked at Dana and couldn't believe how beautiful she was. It had been centuries since he had ever had feelings for a woman, or even noticed one for that matter, but Dana was different. Her eyes showed how good her soul was, her voice was so soft and promising, and her lips looked like perfectly shaped rose petals. As she shook in horror at the flickering lights, something came over him. He put his arms around her protectively, bringing her shaking frame close to his. He whispered soothingly in her ear, that no matter what happened, she would be safe. Dana sat there, looking at him. His eyes were full of emotions. Unfortunately, they were ones she couldn't quite decipher. If she wasn't so incredibly frightened, and hopelessly attracted to him, she could probably figure it out. But between the howling wind, the darkened house, and the intense fear of being killed and ending up in Hell, she had her mind on other things. But, that didn't stop her from wanting to kiss him. His lips were plump, and looked so warm and inviting. She wasn't in to one night stands, but if this was any other Friday night, and he was some random guy, she would have jumped his bones as soon as their eyes met. Dean and Sam were back inside, and going through everything they collected. Dean saw that Cas and Dana were snuggled on the couch, but saw no sign of Willow. He groaned and walked over. "I hate to intrude on your beautiful moment, guys, but where the hell is that pain in the ass best friend of yours, Dana?" "She went to find John." "Damn it! That girl better hope she found my dad, and not that demon." Sam added. "Willow's smart, she can take care of herself." Dana said. Willow was walking slowly and quietly in the hallway, looking for him. He was so gorgeous, she was surprised he had two full grown sons. He seemed so mysterious, though. She couldn't tell if that was what really attracted her to him, or the fact that his wet, black v-neck clung to his body, which showed how good of shape he was in. Or maybe it was his messy brown hair, or those piercing eyes. She tried to shake the lustful thoughts from her head, and when she did, she tripped. "Damn it, fuck that hurt." she mumbled to herself. She went into her room, but didn't find John. All she could see were these weird images on the ground, and the pristine white salt in the window sills, and in front of her closet door. She moved in, and the door slammed shut. She stifled a cry and looked around the room, there was no one. She heard sounds coming from the closet and her heart began to slam in her chest. As she began to back away, she bumped into someone and screamed. She was spun around and came face to face with John. "Didn't I tell you to stay downstairs?" he demanded. "Yeah well, I'm not obedient." she smiled. "You're gonna get yourself killed, Willow." he whispered. "Look, I'm not a damn damsel in distress, I can take care of myself." she said, growing irritated. "You have no idea how dangerous these damn things are. I've hunted them for the last twenty some years, sweetie. Trust me when I say it's safer downstairs." "If you're staying, then I am, too." she said, not budging from in front of him. "Fine, your choice. But stay close." he replied, frustrated. She stuck right beside him, and he wrapped his arm around her shoulders. He didn't know why, but he wanted her as close to him as possible. He didn't want anything to happen to her. His sole mission in life was to save people. This girl may have been getting on his last nerve, but he liked her bravery, her determination, and she was pretty on top of it. He wondered why she wanted to be up there with him, but he didn't ask. It was nice to have a woman with him, standing by his side through this. Willow felt safe with John's arm around her. She wanted to hold on to his waist and convince him to run away with her, from this place, far away, and hole up in some motel for the night. But she could tell he wouldn't go for it. She squished herself against his side as much as possible. The windows started to rattle, and Willow made her way to the bedroom door. It wouldn't open. She kept her cool, although inside she was panicing. Dean was on the other side, trying to kick it down, but nothing would work. John stood in front of Willow, trying to figure out what his next move would be. Out of nowhere, she felt herself go flying against a wall, pinned against it. She was deathly afraid, she couldn't even speak. John tried to grab her, but he was thrown against the opposite side of the wall. Dean finally managed to kick the door open, and Sam was right behind, with a large leather book. "Now's not story time, guys!" Willow shrieked. "Relax!" Sam snapped. The thing appeared, right next to John. Willow was struggling to free herself so she could get to him, which caught it's attention. It's pitch black eyes stared at her, and it's lips turned into a cold smirk. Sam's book went into flames and he went flying backwards and the door slammed shut behind him. Dean was knocked into the wall and went unconscious. John was swearing at the thing, trying to get it's attention, to bring it to him instead of Willow. But Willow didn't even shake, or shut her eyes. She stared at it with hate. She struggled to free herself, but had no such luck. "My, how you've grown." It hissed, like a snake. "Fuck off." she choked. She felt a white hot pain on her abdomen, and screamed. The thing flipped her shirt up to show blood dripping down her body. She stared at it, and fear started to sink in. It ran it's tongue over her cheek, and then whispered that she was going to Hell, with it, and there was no stopping it. She stared it down, showing that she wasn't weak, or scared. It slapped her, and then she felt more pain in her chest, and her fore arms. She was turning in to a bloody mess. "Let her go!" John demanded. "What's wrong, Johnny? A little upset that this will be the 2nd woman you've lost?" it smiled evily. "Take me. Let her go." he said. "Nah, this is too much fun watching you watch her slowly die." it said, and turned to Willow again. The door blew off the hinges, and Cas stood in the doorway, Dana was behind him. Cas raised his palm and now the demon was on the ground, on its knees, before Cas. He began to speak in a foreign tongue, and the thing started to scream. It's head moved side to side at the speed of light, and with one loud bellowing symbol, the demon's black spirit was expelled from the decaying body. John and Willow fell to the ground, and Sam ran to call an ambulance. Dana kneeled beside her friend, who was slowly going unconscious. Willow came to in a hospital, it was dark out, and she figured it was the same night. She moved slightly to the left and saw John asleep in the uncomfortable chair beside her bed. She peered down and saw his hand holding hers. Dana and Cas had just walked in and saw her eyes were open. Dana went to say something when Cas motioned for her to stay quiet, so they didn't wake John. Dana walked over and whispered in Willow's ear. "He's been here ever since you were admitted, that was two days ago. Someone's getting hospital sex later on!" She chuckled before walking out with Cas. Willow giggled but winced quickly afterward. It hurt to move at all. She had never been in this much pain before. She wondered what happened, she was out for two days. She also wondered if he was okay. She gripped his hand, and smiled. He was sleeping peacefully beside her. Cas told Sam and Dean that Willow was awake and that they could head to their motel. He was going to drop Dana off at her motel and then come back to see how Willow and John were getting along. But Dana had other plans. They got to her motel and Cas walked her in. She smiled at him as they stood awkwardly in the doorway together. He knew something was up, but he couldn't exactly tell what. She looked up into his eyes and he felt like he was going to melt. Her eyes were a beautiful blue, but they had a violet hue to them. It was like nothing he had ever seen before. He tried to remind himself that this girl was just that; a young girl. He couldn't possibly get feelings for her. In his line of work, and location, it could never work. But still, what he was feeling inside wouldn't go away. "You saved my friend, and myself. I could never thank you enough." Dana whispered. "It's no problem. I would have done it for anyone." he replied, being modest. "It's really late, isn't it? Maybe you should crash here. Besides.. It does get lonely." she hinted, taking his hand in hers and bringing him to the bed. He sat down and she straddled his lap. He looked at her, unsure of where to put his hands. She grabbed them forcefully and held them against her perky breasts. His touch sent a shiver up her spine, and he started to feel tension in his pants. It was all new to him, but he was enjoying the sensation. He laid back and brought her down on top of him. She groaned and attacked his lips. He pressed his lips hungrily back against hers. She was forcing her tongue in to his mouth, and the texture of his tongue against hers was turning her on. She could already feel her panties getting soaked, and she felt his boner poking her through their jeans. She gasped when he flipped her on to her back, climbing on top of her. His blue eyes swam with lust and what appeared to be genuine, human emotion. He slipped her tank top over her head and began to kiss her chest, up to her collarbone and neck, and each kiss was deeper and rougher than the last. She squirmed under him, whining and unable to control her animalistic sounds. She ripped off his trenchcoat, and soon was able to slide off his shirt. His skin was warm and smooth, and felt good against her chilled body. His tongue swirled on her sweet spot, and soon his teeth nibbled, causing her to arch her back. Her legs unvoluntarily opened, giving him room to place his lower body between them. Their lips met with passion, and he gripped her sides. She kept arching into him, her hips bucked against his own. A devilish smile formed on the corners of his lips, and he began to playfully bite her bottom lip. For someone who had never done this before, Dana was dying from the pounding in her cunt. She already wanted him to just shove it in, over and over, and make her scream until no body part worked. He slowly stood up, looking down at her. One of his hands gripped at the button of her jeans, and he quickly undid it. He ripped her pants off her legs as she fumbled to undo his button and zipper. She couldn't even form a coherent sentence, and her lips began to trace down his body, from his chest to his stomach and back up. His pants flew off and across the room, and she pulled him back down. The head of his cock was making an appearance in the hole of his boxer shorts, and she placed her hand inside them, giving his dick a small squeeze. He grunted in her ear, which made her pump his dick in her hand. He yanked her hand out and pinned both of her wrists above her head. He kissed her again, with force. He grinded his lower body against hers, letting her feel every solid inch against her wet pussy. She was able to break free, but she steadied her urges to rip his boxers off and ride him like a bronco. Instead, she slowly slid them off, and he looked down at her. She suddenly felt her heart swell in her chest, and it was a feeling she knew all too well: Love. He gently pulled off her soaked thong and helped her up into the middle of the bed. Slowly opening her legs, he slid inside, and the sticky, hot mess made it easy for him to slide in deep. She cried out and dug her nails into his back, panting in his ear. Her legs were in the air, her back arched as far as it could, and their eyes were locked on each other. They smiled and kissed deeply, passionately. Their tongues locked and slid deep into each others mouths as he penetrated her deeply, roughly, and continually. She was already cumming and drenched his dick with a hot load of cum. He wasn't too far, behind. He began to pound her cunt mercilessly, grunting and groaning in her ear, then he would add little butterfly kisses to her earlobe and neck before sucking hard on the sweet spot of her neck. "Dana, you make me feel so many things, that are so foreign to me. But God does it feel wonderful." he panted gruffly in her ear. "Jesus fuck, Cas. More. Oh God. More, please!" she begged. He did as he was asked, shoving it all inside, pounding her sweet spot, making it hurt. She finally was reaching her final orgasm, her muscle wrapping around his cock and squeezing as she screamed his name. His eyes clenched shut and he bit his bottle lip as he let his own cum rush out of him and drench her insides, and slide down her shaking legs. He fell on top of her, his whole body quivering. She clung to him as he wrapped his own arms around her body. They gasped for air and held each other, realizing this was more than a fling, it was the beginning of a beautiful relationship. Willow woke up around eleven o'clock the following night. The doctors had given her pain medication since she was crying in her sleep. When she woke up, she awoke to John hovering above her. Her heart pitter pattered in her chest, and she let out a small, shy smile. He traced the back of his hand against her cheek, in which she leaned in to it, and he told her she could finally go home. "But I don't have a home." she said. "You can stay with me, for a few days, you know.. If you want." he said. "Really?" she asked. "Yeah, if you want." he smiled. "I'd love to, John." she replied. He helped her sit up, and as the nurse unhooked her from the heart machine and took the needle out of her arm, Dana came in with a huge smile on her face. She gave her friend a set of clothes and helped her into the bathroom to dress. "God this all hurts." she cried. "I know, but John will take care of you. Cas is gonna help me go apartment hunting, for us." she replied. "John's letting me stay with him for a few days." Willow smiled. "Awww!" Dana cooed. "Oh shut up. Um, Dana? Isn't this kinda.. much?" she asked, looking in the mirror. Willow was wearing a long sleeved, low cut fishnet tshirt with a black lacey push up bra underneath, a frilly black g-string and skin tight dark blue jeans, with her tights and knee high boots. Dana put on black eyeliner and mascara, to make Willow's eyes really pop. She combed her messy hair and when she was finished, you would have never have known Willow was attacked. She walked out and saw John talking to his sons, who apparently had a lead on some new monster two states away. John slowly turned and laid his eyes on a new Willow, and he turned from his sons and walked over to her. She heard Dean mutter 'get some, dad!' and Sam dragged his brother off to their Impala. Dana walked off to find Cas and said she would call Willow tomorrow to see how she was doing. John wrapped his arm around her shoulders gently and they walked off to his car. The entire way to his motel was silent, but she kept looking at him once in awhile. More than once she caught him staring and smiled when he looked away. They got inside his motel and he helped her to the bed. She laid down and looked at him as he put his guns on the nightstand beside the opposite bed. He sat down on it and looked at her before lying down.

"Aren't you going to lie with me?" she asked.

"I wasn't sure you wanted me to." he laughed.

"Well, I do, so come here." she giggled.

He slowly got up, and took his shirt off, tossing it on the ground behind him. She laid on her back and watched him get in bed. His body was so perfect; a nice looking chest, perfect abs, and his arms were strong, and when they locked around her, she felt like putty. She looked up at him, and his eyes changed; they were full of lust. She was so glad she wasn't the only one who wanted to have sex at that point. She broke away long enough to slide her shirt off, and he slid his fingertips slowly up and down her arm. She shivered, and he quickly brought her right up against his body. His arms were around her tight and she could feel his heart beating against hers. She melted against him, taking in his scent and closing her eyes. He rubbed her shoulder blades gently with his hands, still keeping her safe in his arms.

"You were brave back there, you barely made a sound or.. Anything." he whispered in her ear.

"Thanks.. I don't know what came over me, I just.. I.. I wanted to make sure you were okay." she said, peeking up to see his eyes.

"Why?" he asked.

"I don't know, John. I just did. At that moment, you were more imp-"She was cut off by his lips hitting hers.

His body carefully rolled on top of hers, making her squeak. Their lips never broke the kiss, but instead, deepened. His hands gripped her hips and his tongue slid easily in to her mouth. She was already shaking and could feel an angry pulse in her pussy. Their tongues locked in a war of dominance, and he was clearly winning. She tried to push him off, but he was too strong. He pinned her wrists down by her sides and broke the kiss, then began  to bite her bottom lip, hard. He lips brushed against her jawline, down to her neck, the kisses were wet and hard, and the more she fought to free herself, the more he tortured her with his passionate kisses. She saw the muscles in John's arms flexing from holding her down, and she let out a whimper.He let her go and helped her sit up. He was on his knees, straddled over her lap so he could undo her bra, as he slowly let the straps slide off her shoulders, he looked down at her cleavage. She slid her hands down his abs and slowly back up, while putting butterfly kisses to his chest. He shut his eyes, groaning. His own hands slid down her breasts, down to her stomach and slowly back up. He cupped her tits in his hands, and as he sweetly kissed her, he began to squeeze her tits, making her gasp and groan. She began to quiver, and he had her lie down.She opened her legs, inviting him in and he placed his lower body right against hers, she gripped his shoulders, and her head was swimming. Her heart raced painfully in her chest, and he pulled away to look into her eyes. He smiled and kissed her cheek while letting his hands glide through her hair. She was quickly falling for him.

 She was nibbling on his neck while gripping his strong, broad shoulders. He began to undo her pants and she hungrily attacked his lips. The kisses were quick and sloppy, but full of emotion and passion and... Need.

"Don't leave after this." she begged.

"I won't, I promise." he whispered assuringly between kisses to her chest.

"God, I need you." she moaned.

"I need you, too, baby." he groaned.

They pulled each others pants off, and she could see his boner in his boxer briefs. He jammed it against her several times, making her lose her mind. She whipped off her g-string while he took his boxers off, and climbed on top of her. His hands were propped up on either side of her, he was now above her and looking for him to signal it was okay for him to enter her. She kissed him twice, the last kiss lasting for several long seconds, and he slowly slid inside her. He let several inches inside, then began to torturously slide the rest in, inch by inch, it was so slow. She wanted him to force it in quick, but he knew what he was doing. He wanted this to last all night, he didn't want to let her go. She was growing wetter by the second, making it easier for him to penetrate her. She arched in to him, their kisses becoming more and more frequent and full of need. His arms wrapped around her shaking body and he whispered in her ear that she was his. He didn't let go, and he was bumping his hips into hers, it hurt but felt so good at the same time. She cried out, groaning and begging for more. Their bodies were sweaty and it made them stick together. 

She bucked her hips into his, smiling as she raked her nails down his back, making him grunt. He looked a little angry, but it made him so much hotter. He kissed her hard as he shoved his cock inside her with one swift move. She screamed, and he began to shove it in, each time harder than the last. She bit her lip, suppressing a scream, and then he put kisses down her chest, to her stomach and back up. He placed one loving kiss to her lips before shooting a load of cum inside of her. It was hot and sticky, and it warmed her insides. Afterward he kept going, not stopping until she finally came, squeezing every last drop of cum out of him. He laid on his back, pulling her close to him. He kissed the top of her head and pulled the comforters over them. She laid her head on his chest, listening to his heartbeat and enjoying his rhythmic breaths. He fell asleep holding her tight, and the last thing she remembered was whispering that she loved him. 

"I love you, too, Willow." he whispered back.

She smiled and clung to him tight, and they fell asleep tangled in each others arms and sleeping comfortably for the first time in weeks.

[mittensmorgul]

Hi Everybody! Y’all probably know by now that I’ve been obsessively listening to @season14podcast since it started (hooray for the updated weekly posting schedule! I haven’t listened to the new episode that dropped this morning yet because I’m still obsessing over the previous episode, which is the point of this post, actually, so maybe I should can the parenthetical and just get on with it! RIGHTO!)

OKAY! So the previous episode was about 2.06, No Exit. And I have feelings about this episode, specifically regarding Dean’s surface-level misogyny and his repeated dismissal of Jo’s ability as a hunter. PARTICULARLY the fact that when he eventually clarified that he didn’t have trouble with women hunting, but amateurs. Because honestly I don’t think this was about Jo at all. This was about Dean (and to a lesser extent Sam), and how he was raised.

In the early seasons of the show, I think this was partly an attempt to show just how isolating from “normal society” the hunting life is. Even after Sam and Dean make a sort of home base out of Bobby’s house. Even after they discover the roadhouse and make some connections with other hunters. They’re all still (all hunters, that is) still relatively secretive and isolationist.

This is a theme that will be addressed over and over again, in their dealings with a lot of other hunters. Remember this was Gordon Walker’s line when they first met him, that he hunts alone, and Sam and Dean should get out of town. And it will come up again in 4.04 with Travis the “rougarou specialist,” who called Sam and Dean in for help hunting the thing he supposedly specialized in his whole life. And while we will see hunters contacting each other for information, or to give others the heads up about events on the spooky side of the street, they largely DO work alone-- or at best as a regular team like Sam and Dean do (and like Ellen and Jo will by s5, and like Bobby and Rufus were implied to have done for years). But Jo was raised in this strange liminal space between hunting and the real world, where even hunters like Rufus were known to show their faces on occasion. It wasn’t really being raised in the life (like we’ve been shown that Sam and Dean were), but it also wasn’t being raised “normal” either.

And the mention of Bobby and Rufus, just thinking back to Bobby’s Hunter Origin Story is yet another example of why amateurs don’t hunt. His wife had been possessed by a demon, and not having any idea how the supernatural worked and being directly threatened by that demon, Bobby killed her before Rufus arrived to help actually get rid of the demon possessing her. Think about what we know of demons-- they leave the host or are exorcised, and if the body is unharmed, the person will live. Bobby’s complete lack of experience, of knowing a simple exorcism, drove him to kill his own wife. Can you even imagine? The guilt of it all literally haunted him. See 3.10, 5.14, and 7.10 for just how much it haunted him.

The thing is, once people have been on ONE hunt, which we typically think of as Hunter Origin Stories, they already HAVE experience surviving that hunt. They might feel compelled to continue hunting, but they also know first-hand the terror, the danger, and that anything can and will go wrong.

EVERY Hunter Origin Story we’ve heard is like this.

EXCEPT Jo’s.

I know this post is all over the place, but I swear it has a point. I’m gonna skip WAY ahead in canon for a minute, because Dabb era is STILL focusing on this. 14.16 involved a conversation DIRECTLY ADDRESSING THIS.

Dean: Knowing about monsters and fighting 'em are two different things. Sheriff Romero: So you make that choice for everybody? Imagine telling them. Imagine the lives you could save. Sam: No. No. It doesn't work like that. People die. Even when they know how to fight, people still die.

Because Sheriff Romero had grown up listening to the warnings, knowing there was something dangerous and evil in the woods, and yet he still didn’t believe it himself. Even knowing the weapon he would need to kill the thing, he brought a shotgun into the woods instead. Even being trained in combat, even knowing the whole story, he still was unprepared to face the monster until he had this fact pointed out to him by Sam and Dean.

There’s other stories. Jody’s, Donna’s, Claire’s, basically pick a character and think about their first brush with the supernatural and understand what inexperience got them. So I wanted this pointed out that this is definitely a recurring theme in the show. No one’s introduction to hunting goes smoothly. You can be armed to the teeth and combat trained (think of the soldiers Abaddon recruited in 9.02, or the soldiers who unwittingly brought khan worms back from a tour of duty). Police, military, even mercenaries are just completely unprepared in the face of something they’re not ready for.

It also works the other way around. You can study the lore, talk to hunters, and understand all of hunting in theory, but until you’re face to face with a monster trying to kill you, you have no idea how you might react to it.

Even the Men of Letters was effectively founded on this exact concept, you know? from 8.12:

DEAN: Okay, enough with the decoder talk. How about you tell us what this whole “Men of Letters” business is, or you're on your own. HENRY: It's none of your concern. DEAN: Why, because we're hunters? What do you have against us? HENRY: Aside from the unthinking, unwashed, shoot-first-and-don't-bother-to-ask-questions-later part, not much, really. SAM: You know what? Wait a second. We're also John's children. HENRY: You're more than that, actually. My father and his father before him were both Men of Letters, as John and you two should have been. We're preceptors, beholders, chroniclers of all that which man does not understand. We share our findings with a few trusted hunters – the very elite. They do the rest. DEAN: So you're like Yodas to our Jedis. [HENRY looks uncomprehending.] Never mind. You'll get there.

And then reinforced when we met Magnus in 9.16:

MAGNUS: Hunters? Wow! Hunters. With the key to the kingdom! The boys must be spinning in their graves. Damn snobs. Bunch of librarians, if you ask me. Although I was always fond of Henry. I was his mentor, you know? Yeah, till the squares gave me the boot. Yeah. 'Course, he came here to visit me, in secret. Called out to me, same as you did. Oh, yes. Quite the wild hair, your grandfather was.

and:

MAGNUS: Things never change, do they? I kept telling the boys over and over again -- I would say, "we could stop all this. We could rid the world of monsters once and for all if we just put our minds to it", but, "oh, no," they said. "No, no, no. It's not our place. We're here to study. We're here to catalog""

and then he went on to express the sentiment “all hunters are morons.”

So yes, this goes both ways, and it’s ingrained in the show’s language. Remember, for all their knowledge, for all their experience and their storehouse of supernatural weapons, they were still entirely wiped out by Abaddon in one fell swoop. Even after generations of training and the accumulation of knowledge, even THEY were entirely unprepared.

So... I don’t really think this is a comment on Jo specifically, or on her character. It was discussed in the podcast whether this sort of “taking her down a peg” was really necessary for her character development, and I’d argue that yes, it was. Because for all intents and purposes, in the context of this hunt, Jo is functioning as an avatar for the viewer. For all of us who’ve been watching the show and “learning to hunt by proxy.” Because isn’t that what her entire life has been?

She may never have actually gone on a hunt (she was little when her father died, and she had her mother to stay home with and have a relatively normal life compared to Sam and Dean), but she’s been tangentially exposed to the life since she was born, too. Her experience is in a context several degrees removed from actually facing the monsters. And as such, no amount of research, no amount of theoretical training, could have prepared her for actually going on a hunt.

Listening to a bunch of hunters’ fish tales (in 12.06 Dean even mentions having heard of Asa Fox at the Roadhouse, through the legend that he’d killed five wendigos in one night, and yet didn’t believe it could be true) is not a foundation for actually being equipped and prepared to go on a hunt ALONE. Because for all his blather (and yeah, the writing could’ve been handled better on this point), I really think that this is what Dean was trying to say. Not that “you can’t hunt because you’ve never been on a hunt before,” but you can’t just jump into a hunt alone without some sort of master/apprentice situation. Because it was implied that even JOHN didn’t begin hunting alone-- he was sort-of apprenticed to a lot of people, but specifically to Daniel Elkins in 1.20.

John knew enough to find the letter Elkins addressed specifically to him after his death, despite their previous falling out:

SAM: Wait, you came all the way out here for this Elkins guy? JOHN: Yeah. He was... he was a good man. He taught me a hell of a lot about hunting. SAM: Well you never mentioned him to us. JOHN: We had a... we had kind of a falling out. I hadn't seen him in years. (gesturing to the envelope) I should look at that. (He opens it) 'If you're reading this, I'm already dead'... that son of a bitch.

Because NOBODY just picks up after the sort of events John experienced in 1983 and just... goes off hunting without HELP.

Which is what Jo was trying to do in 2.06.

Which is what Dean specifically objected to.

NOT the fact she was there with them, but that she’d taken off from what Dean thought of as a comfortable and secure life of safety, deliberately lying to Ellen about where she was going and what she was doing, where she could’ve literally died if Sam and Dean had not shown up there, too. And I mean, she had to know they would make their way out to Philly to take on the hunt, and I kinda think she wanted to show them up by having handled the hunt before they ever arrived, you know? Or at the very least wanted to prove her competence, to prove she wasn’t afraid, to prove she could do the job, too, after having literally been raised surrounded by the competent bravado that most hunters adopt when they gather together for drinking and information swapping.

I also think this was literally an episode to demonstrate to her the reality of hunting removed from the relative safe-haven of the Roadhouse. This was deliberately to show her what was at stake if she chose to go hunting on her own, and give her something concrete to balance it against in her mind. She could still choose to go off hunting, but now she knows the reality of that experience, and not the barroom fish stories version. I hate to use this term for it, but there’d always been a certain glamour about it for her, and nothing wipes the polish off like getting buried alive by a murderous ghost, you know?

But she DID learn something from this experience. Bravado has NO place in hunting. Sam and Dean wouldn’t have marched into a ghost’s lair and thrown themselves in its face. Well, maybe they would, but they would have an actual plan. Usually. Hopefully. I mean, even their plans frequently go out the window, and even they get things wrong more often than most people would be comfortable with, you know?

And I know most of this isn’t something that could be addressed in the podcast, because hooBOY this is basically one big spoiler, and we wouldn’t want to spoil Jess on what’s to come. :’D But I had to write something out about this. I mean, definitely, the writer of this episode could’ve definitely taken a bit more coaching on characterization and not implied Dean was a misogynist jerkwad, but I’m willing to overlook that mostly because of ^^ everything else the series has ever said on how most hunters begin their hunting careers. So while the attempt came off a bit ham-handed, it’s still basically conveying the same message the rest of the series does.

One last thing before I close this out. It’s also a direct comparison between Jo’s relatively comfortable and stable upbringing, even exposed to tragedy and the supernatural from a young age, and the sort of upbringing that Sam and Dean had on the road with John. Sure, we can assume Bill Harvelle may have begun training Jo in basic weapons and maybe told her the sorts of stories we learned Mary experienced in her own family as a child (bedtime stories about The Colt? yeah... hunter families are wild), but it wasn’t the isolation and immersion in hunting Dean (especially, and Sam to a lesser extent since Dean shielded him for A LOT for a VERY LONG TIME) experienced in being trained to hunt from the time he could remember. Nothing drives that point home quite like watching 12-year-old Dean’s “failure” in 1.18, you know? THAT is the comparison point for hunting as a novice. Dean HAS experienced that failure. He KNOWS what is at stake. And he has known the risk since he was old enough to hold a shotgun.

Jo only learned it in this episode. All the research, all the planning in the world, all the bravado and confidence in the world couldn’t have saved her here. But now she knows.

One last thing about all those hunter origin stories I mentioned above. For Dean, no matter how prepared anyone thinks they are, no matter how much of “a freak” (to use Jo’s word here) they may feel like, no matter how averse they are to putting it behind them and trying to live a normal life, there’s something about the experience of hunting that Dean would’ve absolutely saved Jo from having to suffer through if he could’ve. Almost every hunter we’ve met on the show is broken in a way that Jo hadn’t been before this experience, and in ways that people who haven’t survived a brush with the supernatural can’t even begin to understand. This has also been an ongoing plot point on the show. Hunters don’t retire, they either die young and tragic or else live long enough to end up like Bobby and Rufus, or worst case, like Martin Creaser. There’s no happy at the end of the road, at least not in Dean’s experience. (and hopefully Dabb era will finally write them out beyond that dark curtain)/

This was never about proving that Jo was incompetent, or that she didn’t have what it takes to be a hunter. I thought it was quite the opposite, showing her the truth of it in a way that wasn’t recklessly catastrophic for her. Hey, at least she survived to live her life, whatever she chooses to do with it going forward.

(and I’m oddly thinking about her lines in 7.04 now, after a flashback to 2.06 earlier in the episode:

DEAN: He was right, you know – that dick judge, about me. JO: No, he wasn't. DEAN: You were a kid. JO: Not true. DEAN: You and Sam. I just – you know, hunters are never kids. I never was. I didn't even stop to think about it. JO: It's not your fault. It wasn't on you. DEAN: No, but I didn't want to do it alone. Who does? No, the right thing would have been to send your ass back home to your mom. JO: Like to have seen you try.

and that’s the difference a better writing effort from someone who has a much better handle on Dean’s character can make, because this is essentially the same sentiment, only refined over the years through reflection and yeah, through personal growth, too)

(and again, not forgiving the writer here because yeeeeeesh he could’ve done all this without making Dean look like a jerk, but “jerk” is kinda Dean’s default when people’s lives are on the line-- particularly people he cares about) 

[postmodernmulticoloredcloak]

What is John and why his return?

As for how John comes back, let’s just say things get weird — don’t they always? — and there’s an altered reality at play. “Our guys are put in a position where they essentially can have a wish granted,” Dabb says. “They’re actually expecting something else, but [John’s return] comes from a place of want by Dean. The need for closure is really what brings John back into their lives.”

While we don’t know the details of the events that lead to John’s return, we can imagine that there’s something in play that is, at least theoretically, on the lines of the premise of the Djinn’s incident in 2x20: back then, Dean had wished for Mary to be alive and their lives to be free of the monsters and supernatural forces that plagued them; now, he apparently wishes - maybe not even fully realizing he’s doing so - for John to be alive, possibly to have some kind of “cathartic” confrontation with him. (13x04 is central in this.)

Of course, as 2x20 dramatically showed us and Dean, wishes are double-edged swords, and you just can’t bend reality like that (a normal Djinn just factually can’t, time travel can’t, Michael-powered Djinns might create “real” projections but the scope of that effect is still limited to “fake” copies made of ash...) and even if you could, you can’t really get what you want without paying some sort of price. In the Djinn-induced hallucination, Dean had the things he had wished for... but other things just fell apart, like his relationship with Sam, his own role in the world, and so on. This time (whatever the cause of the reality bend is) Dean will figure out that having John back means a ripple effect that includes that Cas is taken away from him, or better he was never with him in the first place.

(It’s early to be sure of what the spoilers really mean, but from what we know, there seems to be a considerable chance that the narrative will present Dean with a choice: keep John and lose Cas, or let John go and keep Cas. Basically, John or Cas. Past or future. What John represents and what Cas represents. Are you excited? Because I am...)

But let’s go back to John. Why does it matter that he returns? What could a confrontation with John mean?

I’m seeing people talking about whether Dean and Sam should be “forgiving” John, but personally I don’t think that’s exactly the point on the question. I don’t expect the narrative to be about them “forgiving” John or not, rather I expect more of a “you’re dead, you’re gone, we’re our own people now” kind of situation. Basically, John alive is a tool to bury John once and for all - a cognitive step in fully acknowledging John as dead.

Several meta writers have been referring to the theme of John’s “presence” in their lives as “the ghost of John Winchester”, and the show also has made literal ghosts as mirrors for John and his effect of his sons. I think that’s a very valid interpretative lens: John Winchester is dead but his ghost - the lasting effects of his treatment of his sons and the traumatic repercussions in their psyches - lingers on, and needs to be put to rest if Dean and Sam want to reach a place where they’re at peace with their past.

Mind: I am not talking about fixing trauma and magically making it disappear. That’s something meta writers who have dealt with this kind of topic have been accused of -- that we supposedly want Dean’s and Sam’s trauma to be magically erased through some kind of resolution process that frees them of what is essentially a component of their personality and personal history. I know that’s not how trauma works -- I am talking about arriving to a place of understanding, acceptance and healing. Healing as in a realistic process of coming to terms with your trauma and dealing with it in a way that works for you as a person, not as in wave-magic-wand-and-poof. I don’t want a part of what makes Dean or Sam what they are to be thrown out of the window, either.

This said, let’s go back to the ghost of John Winchester. I think that the point of his return isn’t strictly to let Dean or Sam have a “confrontation” with him (of course that’s going to happen otherwise there would be no point to the whole thing, but the confrontation isn’t the goal itself) but to put the ghost out. To accept that John is dead in a profound, symbolical way: in the sense that what John represents is a closed chapter of their lives, or better, that they can consider it a closed chapter of their lives, that is there - like a past chapter is still in the book - but that doesn’t have to affect how the next chapter is going to be written. That they’re writing the story.

(Eventually, we always go back to the same thematic point: Dean and Sam as authors of their own story, not John, not God. Dabb hasn’t been able to kill God in the story -- although I suspect that he might try to get that by the time the show ends -- but he can bring back and re-kill what at the end of the day God is just a mirror for, i.e. John. Chuck is no longer writing, but the fans are; Dad’s journal is just a thing that might come in handy occasionally, but largely dated.)

Dean and Sam are now adults who are writing their own story -- they’re making their own choices, shaping their own path, and ultimately John... doesn’t matter. Even Mary is building a whole new John-less life -- and Mary is a blatant mirror for Dean in this sense. Dean, symbolically the wife of John after Mary’s death (please note the symbolical part, just in case), needs to let go of the widow role and build his life again in a healthy matter that can bring him happiness. Mary and Bobby have been almost comically presented as Dean and Cas parallels, and I’m not saying anything new here.

So, basically, I think that, through meeting John as a living person (in a situation that feels ‘wrong’ because of reasons), they’re going to genuinely accept that John isn’t a living person, if it makes sense. Of course they have processed his death in these twelve years, but the person John simply represents John’s upbringing, which means the trauma it caused them.

The patients of the grief counselor faced their grief by meeting “alternate reality versions” of their lost ones (in that case it was a shapeshifter taking their appearance but it’s not really relevant how that happened, just their emotional reaction to it) and that was a step towards accepting that their lost ones were gone, and they could reach an emotional place where they were at peace with the loss.

As I mentioned before, Dean and Sam have to accept that John is dead in the sense that they have to reach an emotional place where they’re at peace with what they are, where they come from and where they’re headed.

So, if John represents the trauma of their upbringing, and the “ghost” of John is the ways the trauma still shapes who they are and how they approach themselves, each other, others, relationships, the world in general -- confronting it, seeing it in a new light (the light of now, the persons they are now, the experiences they’ve had), will help them realize the distance that can be, that they can put, between John -- between their “John selves” so to speak -- and their current selves.

John’s return happens now because now they can see him in a particular light that they didn’t really have before. They are parents now. They have embraced the role of fathers to a child. They know what it means to be a father now. They have recently stated out loud that Jack is their kid and they’re parents to him. They are emotionally ready and invested to this role, and Dean especially has completed the journey from rejection of this new parental role to full acceptance. (Of course, Dean was the one that had reasons for which rejecting to be thrust upon a child to raise was an actual healthy choice, and a healthy foundation to build a positive parent-child relationship.)

Now Dean and Sam can look at John and say, there was another way all along. Dean and Sam are also traumatized, they have also lost so much; but they haven’t used it as an excuse to abuse Jack (again, Dean’s initial negative treatment of Jack was intentionally not in the context of a parental relationship). If John acted as a drill sergeant to toughen his sons up -- Jack literally fought a war in an apocalypse landscape without a parent acting as his drill sergeant. If John isolated them because he had realized that there was something supernaturally suspicious about Sam -- Jack is literally the devil’s spawn.

Dean’s case is interesting because he, so to speak, experimented different approaches towards Jack, including a performative* John-like behavior (*see this post for my interpretation of the scenes in 13x04), and of course he also has a previous chosen parental experience with Ben, so we could say that he has a rich history of putting himself in certain roles/dynamics and reflecting over them. We could even add how Dean himself drew comparisons between Cas’ complicated experiences with Claire a few years ago and his own experiences with John.

Basically, Dean has done a lot of reflecting about parenting -- John’s parenting and his own dabbles in it. And now he’s arrived at a point where he’s fully embraced the role of father to a child that, with all due differences, isn’t really less complicated to deal with than Sam was.

You could argue that Dean isn’t raising Jack alone. It’s Dean, Sam, Cas, and then there’s Bobby, Mary, other hunters, other people who are part of their extended family. John, on the other hand, raised Dean and Sam alone, so it was inevitably more difficult. But it didn’t have to be. Remember the first seasons where Dean and Sam comment on how they keep crossing path with people who used to be close to John, but then John managed to piss off and ruin his relationship with all of them? John did have people, but he isolated himself and his sons from them. Dean and Sam, on the other hand, have built a wonderful net of genuine, positive connections (especially “adopts everyone he meets as some kind of family member” Dean). One can also argue that John didn’t even really raise Sam, not in the concrete daily dynamics of a family life, because he relegated Dean to that -- which also means he didn’t raise Dean, not in the real parental meaning of the concept. Drill sergeant instead of parent, at John’s own admission, after all...

So, like I mentioned, now Dean can look at John and say, I know now. I know it didn’t have to be like that. I know that those excuses -- excuses I gave myself for you, excuses I believed for so long -- were just excuses. I understand and empathize with you, but I see now. I am no longer a kid, I am a grown man, and I am a father, an actual father of adult age to a kid. I know now. And I choose my own way, a way that I know I can follow. I see I am able to. I don’t need to cling to the idea of you, I have no use for the idea of you anymore. I don’t have to measure up with you to model myself into a man, because I am one. I have arrived where you also were, and I am doing it my own way -- better.

This is the closure Dean needs. To face his father as an equal.

And this is why John is returning at this point of the story -- because Dean can face him as an equal.

[winchesters-favorite-girl]

You aren’t my Father-Part Two

A/N: When Sam shut the gates of hell Dean promised that he would take care of Sam’s little girl. However things didn’t go the way anybody suspected. After Dean settles into his apple pie life he drifts away from his niece, who decides to take her future into her own hands.

Word Count: 1986

Warnings: Angst

Masterpost

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It had been eight years since you walked away from Dean on your eighteenth birthday. Not a single day passed that Dean didn’t think about you. He had tried to contact you a few days after you left but you had already ditched your phone. About a year after you left he made the two day drive to the bunker, but when he got there he discovered that you had somehow changed all of the locks; he couldn’t even get in. He didn’t want to contact any of his old hunter buddies for the fear of getting dragged back in. The only person he did try to contact was Cas, but he never responded.

Eventually he gave up.

Allison and the kids still asked about you but he made up a story about you wanting to get out and see the world; it wasn’t entirely a lie. He told them that you’d come back when you were ready, like Dean was hoping you would and he would be waiting with open arms; but he knew that was never going to happen.

He learned to deal with the guilt from lying to his family.

The guilt from letting you down.

But he never got used to the guilt from breaking his promise to Sam.

That evening was just like any other; everyone was sitting at the dinner table, eating the pasta that Allison had made. Dean was fully settled in his apple pie life and was no where near ready for what knocked on his door during dinner that night.

Jake shot out of his seat when he heard someone knocking on the door “I got it!” He shouted as he ran for the front door, excited to see who was visiting. Dean followed close behind him, the instinct of not knowing what could be on the other side of the door had never left him. However Dean froze when Jake opened the door with Garth standing on the other side.

“Hey Dean.” Garth said with a sad smile.

“Jake, go back to the table, I’ll be there in a minute.” Dean said to his son as he walked out the door and closed it behind him. “Garth, what the hell are you doing here?” He asked angrily, worried that something followed him to Dean’s personal sanctuary.

“I had to come here.” Garth said defending himself, “I promised Y/N.”

“Y/N? Have-have you heard from her?” Dean questioned the man in front of him.

“Yeah, she uh, she contacted me not too long after she moved into the bunker. I came and moved in, that place is amazing. She turned it into a hunter’s sanctuary, it’s home base for a lot of hunters.” Garth said with a fond smile. “Y/N, Dean you did a great job raising her.”

Dean shook his head, unable to take the guilt that was rising, “No, she-she raised herself, everything else is just stuff she got from Sam. Is-is she okay though? I haven’t heard from her since she left.”

“That’s um, that’s why I’m here. Y/N, she-Dean I don’t know how to tell you but she’s, she’s gone.” Garth told Dean sadly. “She always told me if anything happened to her that I need to come to you in person and tell you.”

“She’s, what? No. No that’s not possible Garth. She’s only twenty five, she-she’s not.” Dean said but couldn't finish his sentence, he couldn’t even finish a thought.

“She‘s um-she’s dead Dean. It was a shifter, we got it, but Y/N-Y/N didn’t make it.” Garth said as a tear fell down his cheek.

“She can’t be dead.” Dean replied sadly, feeling his heart crumple.

He never had the chance to make things right with you.

He never got to make you part of the family like he wanted.

He never got to say he was sorry.

“I’m sorry Dean. We’re um, gonna give her a hunter’s funeral in three days back at the bunker. We wanted everyone to have a chance to make it back to base before we did it; we wanted everyone to be able to say goodbye.” Garth told Dean, who just nodded his head in understanding. “Alright, I’m gonna head back and Dean, I am sorry, Y/N, she was the best of us. I know if it wasn’t for her most of us wouldn’t still be here.”

A day later Dean found himself driving in the impala towards Kansas. Allison and the kids had tried to come but he insisted that he needed to go alone, that he would bring them out later so that they could say goodbye. Dean didn’t want them around the other hunters was the excuse he kept telling himself for not telling his family come, but in reality he wanted to do this alone.

He didn’t want his family to see him break.

Pulling into the garage of the bunker he was shocked to see so many cars. You really did turn the bunker into a place where all hunters could have a home.

Dean never felt more like an outsider then when he walked down the stairs of the bunker for the first time in twenty years. There were people spread all throughout the room who all stared at him as he proceeded down the stairway.

“Dean!” He heard his name being called from the crowd. He saw someone moving forward and soon he was being hugged by none other then Jody Mills. “Hey Dean.” She said sadly as she let him go.

“Jody, hey.” Dean replied, shocked to be seeing her there.

“Surprised I’m here?” She asked, reading his mind.

“Just a bit.” Dean responded out of breath.

“Yeah well, that’s Y/N for ya, she knew everybody. She found my name in one of Sam’s old books and gave me a call not long after she moved back to the bunker.” Jody told him, Dean simply nodded his head in response.

“Dean?” He heard his name being called by a voice he remembered, Charlie Bradbury.

“Charlie?” He replied as she engulfed him in an embrace.

“Hey there!” She said happily.

“Dean, glad you made it.” Garth added as he walked into the room.

“Damn, Y/N really did know everyone.” Dean stated sadly.

“Yeah, she was one hell of a friend to have.” Jody told Dean, giving his arm a squeeze.

“Sounds like it.” He replied.

“You would know, you did raise her.” Charlie said as if it was the most obvious thing in the world.

“Yeah, but, she’s more Sam then me, basically raised herself.” Dean stated.

“Don’t worry Dean, she forgave you.” Charlie told the little group who had wandered into the library away from the observant eyes of everyone else in the room.

Dean just gave a nervous chuckle in reply, “Follow me.” Jody said, lightly grabbing his arm. She led him down the hallway that had bedrooms, “She took Sam’s old room, let everyone else have whatever room they wanted, except for one.” She stopped walking right in front of one room that had the door closed, his old room “No one’s allowed in there and we all respected the rule. Go rest, I’ll come get you if anything interesting happens.” Jody told him, giving him a nudge towards the door.

Dean stared at his old room for a few minutes before deciding to walk around and take everything in. Nothing had changed; he had weapons still on the wall, the records were still by his bed, even the same old photographs were on his desk. He picked them up and looked at them one by one.

The photo of him, Sam, and his mother.

Sam, John, and himself.

He took a deep breath as he got to the pictures with you in them.

Sam and you the day you were born.

Sam, you, and himself when you were a toddler.

Then finally you and Dean during your final birthday that Sam was alive.

A tear landed on Dean’s hand; he didn’t even realize that he started to cry.

This was all just so messed up, this wasn’t how any of it was supposed to go. Sam was supposed to raise you in a normal life, you were supposed to be the happy girl that you had always been since you were born. Sam and you were supposed to live happily ever after.

But Dean couldn’t kill that damn hell hound whereas Sam could.

It was on Dean to shut the gates of hell.

Instead Sam died. You died. All while Dean got to have a fairy tale life.

Dean sat down on the bed while he continued to stare at the photo of you and Sam when you were first born. As he shuffled around on the bed Dean heard the sound of paper crumpling. Confused, he turned around and grabbed the envelope that was near his hand.

The front of it had his name written on it and it was your handwriting from what he could remember. He slowly opened it and pulled out the letter inside of it. As Dean read your words he couldn’t help but let a sob out as sadness overtook him.

Hey Uncle Dean,

If you’re reading this then I guess I’m gone. I have no idea what took me out but I’m hoping whatever I died for was worth it. It probably was. I’m glad that you decided to come and thank Garth for me for going and getting you.

I know that things between us got complicated and messy, I am sorry about that. I was just so blind to a lot of things and it took a lot of growing up to get it, but I think that I finally do. When my dad died you took on the responsibility of his kid, something not many people would do, so when I said thank you for it on my 18th birthday, I meant it. I know you probably made yourself feel like crap about it over the years but you really did do an amazing job taking care of me. I never needed anything and whenever I wanted something, you provided it.

You were a great uncle.

I know that I gave you a lot of crap, saying you forgot about me when you got married and had kids. I am sorry for the way I said it, I was a pissed off teenager so you gotta give me that. But, you did get yourself wrapped up in your own life and I wanted to make sure you knew that it’s okay. I don’t blame you for it anymore. You had every right to live your own life. After everything that you and dad did for the world you earned it. It was on me for isolating myself. But like I said, I was a pissed off teenager who was just mad at the world for not having her dad.

I love you Uncle De and I’m sorry that I missed out on all the time we could have had together. By the time I realized all of this I had already created this amazing hunter network and didn’t wanna bring it anywhere near you because I didn’t wanna risk dragging you back in.

I do need you to do one favor for me. Forgive yourself? I know that you’ve probably blamed yourself for years over everything and I need you to let it go. Make your peace with it like I have. I loved you and thank you for being the father I needed when mine couldn’t be there.

Don’t worry about missing me, you’ll get up to heaven eventually. Until then I’ll be catching up with dad, probably hanging out in the bunker or driving in baby. So take care of yourself Uncle Dean and I’ll see you on the flip side.

Love,

Y/N

Part Three

[mittensmorgul]

In 4x03, when Dean goes back in time, a guy says to John "say hi to your old man for me." But we know Henry wasn't around when John was grown up. I know this was probably a throw a way line, but do you have a Watsonian explanation for this comment by any chance? Or is it something you just ignore?

Hi there! Rather than just starting this out by telling you what I think about this comment, I’m gonna walk you through how I’ve always considered things, and see if it makes sense to you. :D

For a long time, since the pilot episode, we’ve been asked to consider the Winchester family’s lives. But we’ve only really been given little snippets of information about what their lives were like before that cold open scene in the pilot. For example, in 1.09 where Sam and Dean go back to Lawrence and talk with ONE PERSON (his partner at the garage where he worked) who knew John and Mary before Mary’s death, they just seemed like a normal happy family to him. Even in that episode, we didn’t really learn anything about a more extended family life-- no mention of grandparents, siblings for either John or Mary, cousins, etc. Even before the fire in 1.01, we sort of get the impression that John and Mary as parents to Sam and Dean encompassed their entire family as canon knew about it at the time, you know? If there were grandparents or other family John could’ve reached out to after Mary’s death, we didn’t hear about them. We learned John isolated himself more and more afterwards, as he began to learn about the supernatural via Missouri Moseley.

That sort of leaves canon wide open to explore their extended family in new directions in the future, should they ever choose to, from a Doylist perspective. Which is a thing I really appreciate about the show.

So my assumption going from that point forward was that either Dean was too young to recall any extended family when John cut them off and became a hunter, or that John cut all contact with them for their own safety when he became a hunter, OR that they really had been rather isolated and without any living extended family that John knew about at that point anyway... we just didn’t know, and it wasn’t specifically relevant at the time 1.09 happened.

We did learn over the intervening seasons that at least Mary had had some extended family. In 2.04, Sam and Dean visit Mary’s gravestone, which was placed above an empty grave by an unnamed cousin that they’d never met. Someone who didn’t even merit a NAME in canon, and for all intents and purposes could’ve been dead themselves by the time Sam and Dean travel to see it. As Ruby told Sam in 3.02, Mary’s friends and family had been systematically killed off in mysterious circumstances over the years. Which just begs questions for viewers at that time. We aren’t given answers about who these people were, but we begin to learn that they did exist at one point.

We don’t really know ANYTHING about Mary’s family until 4.03. Neither do we really know anything about John’s, even AFTER 4.03. We meet Mary’s parents, discover that she had been raised as a hunter, and saw the fate that befell her parents (as far as we knew at the time, she didn’t have any other extended family, which fit well with the description of Samuel Campbell as someone who didn’t work with other hunters and remained relatively secretive and isolated by choice).

But still, the ONLY thing we learned about John’s family was via that one offhand comment from a random stranger in that diner. So I’ll ask... what do we actually know-- even to this day-- about John’s MOTHER? Let me backtrack a bit. Because this is gonna involve some time travel to understand how I put this all together.

In 8.12, we learn that John had been a 4-year-old kiddo in Normal, Illinois, where Henry was a member of the Men of Letters when he’d jumped through that doorway through time to escape Abaddon. We learn that John Winchester went through the rest of his life believing that Henry had abandoned him. And still, we don’t even SEE John’s mother. Was she still alive? We have to assume so, because of what we learn in 9.17, that Henry was still happily married to her (Her name’s Millie, btw). And that had only been weeks before Abaddon had Done The Thing in 8.12. So the assumption follows that John’s MOTHER, at some point after Henry’s apparent abandonment (did she know about the Men of Letters? Was there some sort of safety net for them if anything ever happened to Henry while doing his work with them that would provide for her in the event he just... didn’t come home from work? We just don’t know.), but at some point she clearly moved with John from Illinois to Lawrence, Kansas.

So between the time John was 4 years old and the time he met Mary Campbell, is it possible that John’s mother remarried? And that John may have thought of this (never mentioned in canon) stepfather figure as his “old man” by the time he’d grown into an adult? It didn’t even register to me when I originally watched 4.03, not knowing that four years down the line we’ll learn that John had grown up mostly not knowing about his biological father. John had never even HEARD of the Men of Letters, as far as we ever knew, from everything we eventually learn in 8.12.

It wasn’t something we really considered while watching 4.03 without any foreknowledge of what the future would hold, you know? 8.12 didn’t even EXIST during my first few rewatches of the entire series. I always assumed after the events of 4.03 that John’s parents either passed away at some point between 1973 and 1983 when the action in 1.01 took place, and that it wasn’t exactly relevant to the story anyway, you know? Because the story never MADE it relevant until 8.12.

Hooray Time Travel for making everything as confusing as possible :’D

And John’s mother STILL isn’t ever really discussed in canon, even through s12 and the resurgence of the Men of Letters as a group that exists in the world. It’s possible that she even passed away at some point between Henry’s disappearance and the events of 4.03, and that’s why the man in the cafe only mentioned John’s “old man.” Maybe he’d just been taken in by friends of Millie’s after her death and treated like their own, the way Bobby did with Sam and Dean, you know? It’s almost irrelevant at this point, though, so whatever headcanon you want to apply that satisfies you the most is probably valid.

I kinda waffle through various versions of all of the above when thinking about it myself. It seems to be that Sam and Dean never really knew much about John’s early family life, anyway, aside from the fact that Henry had disappeared when he was very young and he remained resentful of that fact even into his adulthood. And that while John had had a father figure in his life around the time he met Mary, he didn’t appear to carry on a close relationship with that person once he and Mary were married, and Dean doesn’t really seem to have any memories of John’s extended family situation himself from the time he was a small child before Mary’s death. So even if John had at one time been close with the father figure in his life as a teen, things changed substantially for him after those events in 1973-- whether as a direct result of Azazel’s interference in their lives or for other reasons doesn’t really seem relevant anymore, aside from satisfying our own curiosity like this. :)

[quinneleanor]

The feels I get from this are so unreal. It's like I'm looking into something deeply personal, something that isn't meant to be seen. It hurts so right.

“Those boys, they seem strange to you?”