#Jayce critical

[midnightcatharsis]

I’M NOT ANGRY AT JAYCE BECAUSE HE THOUGHT HE HAD TO DESTROY THE HEXCORE AND IN CONSEQUENCE KILL VIKTOR OR BECAUSE HE DECIDED TO DO IT. (I have no doubt that he saw something terrible that will be revealed later). I AM ANGRY AT JAYCE FOR HOW HE CHOSE TO DO IT and because it looked like it was way too easy for him.

Most arguments defending Jayce like: "he did everything right because he saw something terrible and had to stop it", "Viktor was manipulated or taken over by the hexcore and had to be stopped", "the cult was morally questionable/evil" - all operate on a fallacy that there were only 2 solutions: either to do nothing completely and let the hexcore do whatever it wants or kill Viktor in the EXACTLY SAME way and manner that Jayce did it. And I have several problems with that take.

A. First of all Jayce didn’t save anyone because it was probably a self-fulling prophecy and by killing Viktor without thinking Jayce didn't stop the tragedy but rather made it happen.

Yes, after merging with the hexcore Viktor seems a little more distant and hollower and is certainly manipulated/used by it, but Act 2 proves he was still himself. He still was desperately clinging to his humanity, he still disagreed with Singed, he still wanted only to help his people, he still wanted them to have their humanity (as proved by Vander's situation) and he still had emotions. He was happy and excited to see Jayce again and wanted to share this dream with Jayce, wanted Jayce to be proud and happy with him... And then he just feels betrayal, confusion, disappointment, and fear. Whether he was manipulated or whether the cult would have bad consequences long term is beside the point. What is important is that he was to some extent in control, had good intentions, wasn't aggressive, and was capable of talking and reasoning. Jayce couldn’t see that. By killing Viktor to avoid the tragedy Jayce took his humanity from him, and this will cause exactly what he wanted to avoid. Dying Viktor rejects humanity -he thinks that everybody he was trying to save and he himself were killed only because of his positive emotions towards Jayce and his trust in him, and he probably doesn’t want to feel that hurt, fear, and betrayal anymore…

It was still possible to talk with Viktor, only Jayce’s choice to murder him will create a villain Jayce wanted to stop.  

B. Even assuming that Jayce absolutely had to kill Viktor to stop the hexcore that is the least problematic and hurtful part. I couldn't hate Jayce or be angry at him for killing Viktor if he was convinced, he had to do it to save the future regardless of whether it turns out to be a good choice or a self-fulling prophecy. I'm not angry at him for that. I’m super angry at him for how easy it was for him to kill his partner/roommate/best friend, how he didn't struggle with it at all (for comparison we see Vi clearly struggling with the idea of killing her sister despite knowing that she is a terrorist), how emotionless he was, and how he made Viktor's last moments hell and emotional torture by giving him the most brutal, terrifying and heartless execution that was possible.

He didn't even try to find an alternative solution to save Vik. I am not saying he should have found it, but he didn't try. He returned and immediately decided to murder him. Viktor invited him and Jayce didn't even bother to talk to him, didn't try to reason with him or to convince him, didn't want even to spare 5 minutes to explain the situation to Vik, perhaps Viktor could give him some advice or insight or if not, at least Jayce could tell him why he had to kill him so that Vik doesn't feel so betrayed in his last moments. Jayce could spend 2 minutes to reassure him that Jayce doesn't want to do it. Finally, Jayce could just say "I'm sorry Vik" or "Forgive me, for what I have to do" or ANYTHING. If he did that, I would find it tragic but I couldn't possibly dislike him. My problem is that he didn't. He didn't want to spare 2 fucking seconds to say "I'm sorry" and to make it slightly less horrifying for Vik or to reassure him that Jayce truly cared. Imagine the hurt, confusion, and betrayal that Viktor had to feel upon realizing that the only person he considered a friend wants to murder him without regret and without telling why. Probably if Jayce spared those fucking 10 seconds to express to V that he doesn't want to do it, only thinks he has to, Viktor would be able to understand, wouldn't want to completely get rid of his emotion and humanity later and the villain Jayce was trying to destroy wouldn’t be created at all. Let’s be honest those 10 seconds wouldn’t have destroyed the earth or caused any horrifying cataclysm.

Viktor in episode 6 has no idea why he has to die and you know what? He doesn’t fucking deserve it. Regardless of whether he will become a villain later or not, regardless of whether he was controlled or manipulated by the hexcore he still had good intentions and didn’t deserve to die like that, to be treated like that, especially, not by Jayce who merged him with the hexcore in the first place.

I think that if I were in Viktor’s position I would like at least to know why I have to die or whether my best friend ever cared to, you know, die more peacefully. Wouldn’t you dear reader?

Even later after murdering Viktor Jayce still doesn't look as if he gives a damn about him. He doesn't say anything, or do anything that indicates that he feels sorry about that. He doesn't cradle his body, instead, he leaves the corpse in a place where he knows nobody will even give it a proper burial... He shows fewer emotions and less care than supposedly taken over by the hexcore Viktor.

I don't think Jayce deserves hate for deciding to destroy hexcore/killing Viktor even if I think he didn't save anyone but made everything worse. However, Jayce deserves every possible critique for choosing the cruelest way to do it, for how easy it was for him, and because he doesn't show any care or emotions in episode 6.

The only thing that could still make me understand this and forgive him is if it turns out that he was being manipulated or taken over by the void/hexcore or some other powerful being.

[butchxenomorph]

hmmm i found Jayce quite boring in s1 but he's kind of compelling in s2.. he's still not my favourite but i might end up liking him this season. maybe i will become a Jayce liker by the end of s2

[bonkalore]

Just some interaction bit I had finally with more between Jayce and Cyprus. This is later on in the story when some stuff came up with Lucy and them both trying to be there for her and why Cyprus was visiting in support. Both of them are wearing glamours (Cyprus the necklace and Jayce his wrist watch band), and Jayce at this point in the story is all fucked up from his Dread condition that's gotten worse and his real form is actually huge and wearing glamours is like wearing spandex that you're having to hold it all in with. He has to also use size spells to try and negate it, but it's hard to manage and keep track of it all.

He's definitely not comfortable most of the time...

[blackholesun321]

Arcane 2 Indepth First Thoughts.

Ok Arcane season two is great and amazing and I have no problems with it… aside from two small itty-bitty really fucking important things.

Vi and Viktor’s characters.

Spoilers for episode 2-3

I’m still getting my thoughts together after the episodes.

Their great really good and I did love mostly absolutely everything in them all, the rest of the characters from Jinx and her suicide mission, Jayce and his looses everything era, to Ambessa (the black rose damn) to even Caitlyn’s fascist arc just chefs kiss!

But Vi and Viktor...

Viktor mostly because he and Jayce have a five-minute conversation and then split. I would have liked, I don’t know, more talking. They literally called each other brothers? More emotions from Viktor, maybe, or at least make his lack of emotion apart of the plot. Like, why not have Viktor come back to life with Jayce not there, see himself, find Jayce’s weapon designs, get pissed, they have the convo and then he peaces out? Maybe the obvious hex-core Sky could call to him—something other than monotone, "Yeah, we were never friends. We should split. Bye." Like, what part of any of that was satisfying or a good lead-up to Jayce building hex-tech weapons and not destroying the hex-core, despite Viktor begging him to—making him promise?

I would have even taken "this isn’t Viktor, this is the hex-core puppeting his body," or just something other than "robot magic plot jesus,” he barely questions what he is, leaves his relationship of ten years with a man he sees as his brother (or something more), and then starts a cult. They dropped the ball. I’ll watch it again, but it wasn’t good, it wasn’t well-written, it was rushed, and they could have done better.

Now on to Vi. I feel like her hatred of Jinx is rushed a bit. I feel like we should have had more of her questioning whether or not she could kill Jinx, hesitating in their fight more—maybe some flashbacks, just something. Especially with that time stuff going on with the hex-tech gear. It felt too rushed, I don’t know. Also, her new relationship with that guy who says absolutely nothing—what the fuck was that about? The other Piltover police had more personality than him. What is he? Why does he exist? It’s like they needed someone to move the plot and Vi around, and it just wasn’t good writing. I don’t even know his name?

Anyways here are my issues like them don’t like them I’ve finished the episodes and will think over them some more later.

[potatoesarecheese]

I love arcane, I'm binging the episodes as they come out, and over all, I do like the story.

However.

I think season 2 could use some... rearranging. Especially with how little time we have for season 2, and all the shit that needs to blow up in response to jinx's attack on the council AND THEN be somewhat fixed at the end, you need to nix some scenes. Shorten some plot points, and BY GOD, stop introducing characters!!

I don't want to say much on what I would personally rearrange and how/why, since I'm waiting to watch all of Act III first. Gotta get a full picture of things before you criticize, y'know?

[goddessofroyalty]

Hi! I’m a big fan of your Zaun Family fic! I was curious as to what were silco and vander’s first impression upon meeting Jayce? I assume silco saw him as a threat since he made victor promise they’re just professional partners lol. Thank you for your work!

Their first assessment of him is that he's a naive slightly-egotistical idiot. But no more egotistical than anyone else in Piltover. Which honestly probably remains their assessment of him for a lot of time just it becomes he's a useful naive slight-egotistical idiot both because of how Hextech would not exist if it wasn't for Jayce (as well as Viktor) and also just generally how keen Jayce is to help out and the fact he is pretty handy.

Silco does see him as a threat but not because he thinks Jayce would intentionally consciously harm Viktor but rather because

He's can see how Jayce can be manipulated into doing things he would not have done otherwise

Generally he thinks naive idiots are dangerous because they will do things / not do things without realising the consequences of it.

But despite many comments to the contrary (he claims it's because someone needs to keep Jayce's ego from getting to his head but really Jayce is just a too-easy target for him) he is aware that Jayce is necessary for the success of Hextech. So he can stay around but also an eye should be kept on him to make sure he doesn't fuck things up.

One of the ways Silco refers to Jayce is "Viktor's Pet-Piltite" sometimes dropping the -Piltite. And that's partially based on how he's told Viktor that he's responsible for making sure Jayce doesn't do anything too stupid especially when he brings him down to the Undercity with him.

I don't think Silco ever actually made Viktor promise they were just professional partners but rather Viktor so quickly would always emphasis in conversation that they were just professional/buisness partners literally right up until it is revealed they're in a romantic relationship. So Silco's "you assured/promised your relationship was purely professional" is more about Viktor clearly lying about it for an unknown period of time.

Vander's position to Jayce is very similar to Silco's in that he agrees that Jayce's naivety could mean he could still cause problems even without ever intentionally meaning to harm. It's just, unlike Silco, he's willing to give Jayce the benefit of not assuming it is inevitable that he will create a problem. So instead treats Jayce more as how he is right now that is a bit naive, has a bit of an ego, but his heart is in the right place.

[atomicjellyb3an]

Viktor just kind of has that sad gay wizard/Caleb Widogast vibe about him rn you know?

[azural83]

Arcane is about the arcane now and it's a problem

In the first season,hextech remained vague enough so the audience wouldn't understand it fully just yet. It wasn't explored much and the narrative focused on the characters and politics instead

And then suddenly season 2 drops and it bombards us with the entire magic lore without proper pacing while all the characters suffer from rushed development at the same time

[butchxenomorph]

i see the vision with jayvik (obviously). i am a little fond of it. unfortunately jayce is annoying tho so its hard for me to enjoy anything involving him xx

love viktor tho he’s become one of my favourite characters.

[literaryspinster]

I don’t know who needs to hear this but

Sky dying was Viktor’s fault and him covering it up was bad actually.

[ahli-stuff]

I DONT WANT TO SEE VIKTORS GLORIOUS EVOLUTION . PLEASE DO NOT?? GLORIOUSLY EVOLUTE???

Ive been excited to see machine herald viktor since season 1 but . not like this!!!

See i would say this is just like the powder -> jinx transformation and his change is inevitable it’s a tragedy so I shouldn’t feel too upset but. But. There’s a difference in the character arcs which just makes me all the more uneasy

I love powder, but I think arcane’s story functions primarily with jinx in mind. we only ever got to see powder three episodes out of two entire seasons—her character is essentially baked from the beginning to be jinx. The story is more interesting with powder as jinx. Jinx is more fun to pick apart, analyze, laugh with, and watch than powder.

But viktor? He was fun to watch before he was the “machine herald.” We got the whole of season 1 of him kicking around, making noise, and being generally developed and interesting to watch even if he doesn’t shoot lasers out of a third arm.

I just really don’t want to watch an out of touch supervillain emotionless robot terrorize piltover and zaun!! I only hope he’s fun to watch instead of being a generally really sad agency-less bucket of bolts

[guiltycorp]

mmm im sort of glad they released arcane survivor jayce skin voicelines in league before act 3 drops because my expectations for it were rising a bit too much lmao... before it i almost convinced myself that yeah, viktor's character arc will lead him to manipulate jayce into transferring his soul to a new mechanical body + focus on a new strategy for 'healing' societal issues that isn't 100% evil and bad (while still having its drawbacks re: will and consent) and fighting noxians would place the zaun side in a better position to bargain with piltover for equal rights and a stop to exploitation (with an open ending sure but still), or even a straightforward revolution with zaun getting its independence through a violent protest that piltover wouldn't be able to curb due to being stretched too thin

but uhm.... all of this looks kinda... sigh

i really doubt they'll have the time in the remaining 3 episodes to develop both his and Viktor's motivations to fit those new ideas, feels like more of the same 'it all happened off-screen, trust that it makes sense' journey saying that Viktor is 'still worth saving' feels especially yucky all things considered, like pls stop trying to save that man and let him act and choose for himself for once in this season maybe? never thought i'd miss the times when Viktor was doing unsafe experiments, getting illegal drugs from evil mentors and accidentally fridging random female assistants, but mmm that sure didn't get a proper continuation for him did it... just like with Caitlyn, or even Mel or Jinx, we just can't seem to get a proper development for the obviously Questionable things the characters choose to do, it's all kind of swept under the rug or cancelled out by magic interference i guess, or they changed their mind off-screen so it's fine now now that i think about it, Jayce is the only one who was allowed to somewhat grow and change organically, and yet this arcane adventure of his might end up ruining even that... well maybe Vi too but she didn't have a concrete focus this season, just more of the same 'should i reconnect with my sister/father or kill them off for good' and lesbian angst (if she still goes back to enforcers after this i just... fml) did Ambessa's warmongering get the best of her or was she cornered by the Black Rose shenanigans with no better way out? did Isha have any purpose aside from giving us false hope that Jinx will get better and have a happy ending? will Mel have any relevance aside from the new magical one and managing her own mother? does Viktor want to 'supersede nature' and get rid of human error element now because of his own character journey or because that's just what Hexcore is leading him to do?... will Caitlyn show that she still doesn't get why Zaun is the way it is or will she also go 'yeahhh i made some mistakes, but now we fight a common enemy yay, and i'll be a bit less strict in the future without making any meaningful changes to the status quo... it was all them foreigners fault' it's just all so... aghhh

and yep now i am expecting that the piltover/zaun conflict is overrr because they have to come together to fight Ambessa and whatever is going wrong with the magic, sighhh social conflict plotlines are a little too spicy for our animated league adaptation i guess... ...this is the only voiceline implication i like and even then i can't help but imagine Viktor the damsel in distress begging Jayce to fix the mistakes they both did instead of like, participating in that himself

bonus points if that promise won't even be to Viktor fghgfhgf

[dad-dumpster]

For some reason, I feel like Viktor could really rock Lupin III’s red suit look. What do you think?

i think he looks freakin great ^_−☆

[zebrafiz]

this is too much this is too much this is too much

[iseutz]

Nobody

Nobody ever:

Jayce Taliesin

Goodnight.

[your-enby-antihero]

Here is the update on my Critical Role Pokémon: Ruby run.

I caught a whole bunch of Pokémon today, I got really lucky on the rng for an early Ralts for Imogen but I need to really train up the team for the future because I was a few levels under leveled for Roxanne. I got seedot for Vex because forest vibes and also I can’t get teddyursa in Ruby so… Chetney is pretty self explanatory and Orym was in honour of Seedling the Wayward Pilgrim. ________________

Badges: 1

City: Rustburo going to Dewford

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