#Jancy should be THE ship

[jonathanbyersphd]

Watching the gifset of Jonathan driving in s1 make the rounds on the dash and trying not to lose it because he was supposed to be the male lead

[artbunkat]

So um. Been rewatching Drawtectives.

Reference from @draw-the-squad-like-this under the cut

[friendsdontlieokay]

Even though I like the idea of Steve and Nancy being together again but the only way I'm accepting it is if Jonathan and Nancy break up mutually.

[findafight]

as someone who doesn't ship stancy or jancy, i admittedly do have a preference for jancy, but for very different reasons than the ones you mentioned in your previous, i was wondering if that was something you'd be interested in hearing? i know that post was a vent, so i didn't want to assume

ohhh yeah I'd be down to hear! I am not against Jancy at all I just think canon refuses to let them be interesting even when they're being messy. to me they are a neutral ship I guess? fine either way.

It was mostly a vent about how some people are so viciously anti-stancy that the just completely ignore the exact issues in the ship they like that they bring up for stancy? and while that applies to...a lot of ships honestly, it is pretty glaring discussing jancy and specifically the discussions of the future. I'd love to hear your thoughts!

[thestobingirlie]

people who ship stoncy without stancy are weak. how can you ship the monster hunting trio without actually shipping all of them. the terrible dynamics are part of the fun.

[alltimefail]

As a diehard Byler, I personally haven't cared about the Stranger Things reddit "worst ship" poll going on (and I'm sure many of you feel the same way). I have found it silly how worked up people seem over there because people are *checks notes* um... voting. In the public poll. Many times they're even voting in line with what the comments want (so in agreement with the redditors) but somehow having a shared opinion is... unionizing? Idk lmao it's just very funny to me!!! (Especially because I honestly think the current final 4 make the most sense.)

That being said, I have to admit that I'm lowkey excited to FINALLY vote Jancy out. Praying it is their time to go. 🙌

(I promise I don't hate Nancy/Jonathan/or Steve. My jumbled thoughts are in the tags, please ignore any typos I noticed later and was too lazy to fix.)

[goodlittlerobot]

since i’m already posting a lot let me talk about byler.

i understand having ship preferences but i’ve seen some people say byler is impossible, or even that will isn’t gay and like everyone can have an opinion but that’s like very intentionally misreading the entire show.

just from a writing standpoint, not even as a shipper, it doesn’t really make sense for them to introduce will having feelings for mike if they don’t have a plan to do something with it. they decided to show us that mike and el’s relationship was rocky, will had feelings for mike and mike seemingly having at least some kind of feelings or possibly conflict over his feelings toward will. why would the writers put all of those dominos up with no intention of knocking them over?

byler being canon or even mike reciprocating will’s feelings very well could be up in the air, sure. but it’s undeniable that will has feelings for him. i just don’t see why in the second to last season they’d make that a big part of will’s story only to have nothing come from it.

idk

[weewoow-2060307]

Rating st ships because no one asked me to <3

Byler: starting off strong 100/10 childhood friends to lovers? Angst? Mutual pining? Forbidden love? Istg they injected crack into this ship. My fixation at the moment

Mileven: 6/10 has been going down over time but I want them to be happy, weather that is together or not. S1-2 Mileven is 8/10 btw Also Mike being willing to put his life on the line by attacking Billy for El <3 (also the shippers low-key scare me lol)

Jopper: soulmates fr fr 10/10. They will be the best parents ever.

Jancy: adorable, 8/10. Nothing to really say Abt them ig.

Lumax: 9/10. I don't think I need to explain myself on this one.

Rockie: 8/10 not much depth to their ship but I love them anyways <33

Elmax: 5/10 much prefer them as friends but to each their own ig.

Elumax: 5/10 again prefer them as friends, but the shippers are nice.

Byclair: don't ship them... But a small part of my does? 7/10 (Will would have gone to Lucas' game)

Henderhop: 4/10 interesting

Jargyle: 4/10 I see them platonically don't like the romanticlly. The shippers are cool tho.

Steddie:... 3/10 it's ehhh

Ronance: 2/10 Nancy hated Robin for like half the season. They don't have any chemistry imo

Stancy: 0/10 literally goes against Nancy's whole arc.

Harringrove: 0/10

Stobin: gtfo/10 I don't need to explain myself.

Billy x Karen: ... 🤮/ 10 someone once pointed out that Karen kinda looks like Billy's mother and I have not known peace since.

[huntingpeople-savingsam]

Realistically what I want for Jon and Nance individually for romance in season 5:

Jonathan Byers

I want him to have the opportunity to meet someone who he has things in common with and has a connection with outside of apocalyptic situations. While I loved him and Nancy together for a period, they’ve just outgrown each other and that happens. I want him to find somebody who appreciates his music, who he can love as much as his family, who maybe smokes weed or maybe doesn’t, who is artistic and kind like he is. I don’t think Nancy is wrong for not being a good fit for him any more I just think that she’s more fast-paced and ambitious and he’s more family centric and relaxed. I want him to meet someone who shares or at least is compatible with his values. Again I’m not fully anti jxncy I just feel like he made up his mind in s4 to a point. Even when he gets on the road back to Hawkins when everything’s going to shit, yes he still cares for her, but I think they both know they don’t want the same things anymore. And that’s okay, let him find someone other than the one girl he liked in high school.

Nancy Wheeler

I love Nancy so much too and what I really want for her is to make a decision from her own heart in s5. Relationship or no relationship I want her to follow what she thinks and feels genuinely and not what she’s told by anyone else. I want her to be able to pursue her dreams of becoming a journalist and if she wants someone she loves alongside her, I want it to be one where they both get something out of it. I want her to be with someone who stands by her and who she feels safe enough to be completely vulnerable with. Or, I want her to be able to do that on her own. I want her to be able to be emotionally vulnerable and forgive herself for Barb’s death, with or without a romantic interest.

[pinkeoni]

…would it be okay for me to point out that boy who resents his absentee father is in love with a girl who couldn’t visit him over spring break and is emotionally distanced from her own family and who also owns the revolver that belonged to said absentee father or

[strangerwheelerthings]

Somebody send me some character (can be anyone) headcanons or thoughts, and I'll discuss them! I especially don't have enough Robin, Max, or Lucas content, so please inspire me. Tis my true motivation in asking. I keep getting caught up in Nancy stuff, but the others need some love too.

Or send me an AU idea, and I will respond with my headcanons or a short one-shot.

[ice-sculptures]

i wonder how representative my jancy-ronance poll is of the byler fandom's opinions as a whole bc so far i think it's been mostly limited to my followers and hasn't spread too far outside the circle

[love-byers]

well... i've got some bad news for you then

jokes aside this is why i stopped shipping mlvn. every season i was ready for the unity, the happiness, them teaming up, getting serious. and it never happened. at the end of every season before 4 i was like "okay now it's getting real there won't be anymore stupid bullshit between them" and in s4, boom. mike can't say i love you, same shit from s3.

i lost interest. i was tired of waiting for them to be likable again. that's why i literally didn't watch s3 for 2 years. i was so pissed that they turned mlvn into comic relief. then i discovered byler and i was like "holy shit this is better than mlvn ever was AND it makes mlvn's decline make sense narratively"

you shouldn't want to see your canon ship be happy together, fighting as a team. in a show where every single season is about people fighting a supernatural threat together, you should ship them because they already do that.

for example, i and many others like jancy BECAUSE they make such a good team, clearly understand each other, and make each other happy. i never had to WANT to see them portrayed that way, because they were already doing it. that was the entire point of their relationship, for us to be like holy shit just kiss already you're literally perfect together

with mlvn you have to say holy shit stop kissing and have some substance

and that's the same reason why i and many others don't like stancy. we aren't given a good reason to want them together besides them already being together. they would need significant development in s5 to be likable, and that's exactly why i don't like them.

i can't root for a ship where i literally have to beg the writers for them to work together/have screentime, understand each other and be happy around each other.

i like byler because we don't have to see them date to know they care about each other. i want to see them date BECAUSE of how well they work together. their bond goes deep. they have all this backstory and history, they bring out the best in each other, they are canonically a team, they understand each other and know exactly how to comfort each other, plus they've done all these tropes throughout the show (will only remembering mike when he lost his memory, mike being breaking will out of trances, mike declaring that will is this best choice he's ever made, fighting in the rain, etc etc)

i didn't have to beg for any of that. it was all already there. i don't have to imagine scenarios where will and mike work together as a team or defend each other or stand by each other because they already do all of that.

that is WHY i want them to be together, because they are already so perfect for each other. i don't want them to be perfect for each other just because they're already dating.

[will80sbyers]

What makes you believe that byler is real? I ship Mileven personally, but I'm trying to understand byler shippers' logic, because a lot of the time it feels like it makes no sense.

I personally think there are some scenes in the show and there are some choices that the writers made that are telling us that the plot of the show is going towards Will getting a "pay off", in terms of writing, at the end of the show and Mike and El finding out they are better as friends instead and Mike discovering he has romantic feelings for Will!

The writers have emphasized Will's sadness in relation to Mike and El as a couple both thematically and visually, in the writing & filming of the show there are too many scenes like this especially in season 3 and 4 they have made it clear that he will never be happy if Mike and El are the endgame relationship, even during Mike's love monologue after he supposedly decided that he was ok with El having his own feelings for Mike by saying that the painting was a thoughtful gift from El when it wasn't... They put a shot of Will's sad face in the middle of the monologue, and also he was framed behind Mike when he said "I love you" which in film is a EXTREMELY weird choice unless it means something more is going on that should make us not want El and Mike's relationship to work - the writers have been sabotaging the emotional connection of the fans with mileven by doing this and I don't think that professional filmmakers don't know that, I think it's on purpose!

The writers have shown Mike and Will as having a deeper relationship than all the other relationships Mike has, putting him in the same category of El as one of his possible love interests in the plot, they have multiple scenes bonding in a tender way than Mike has with any other of his friends, they happen in private usually or in emotionally charged moments that they film to make you as a viewer feel like they are in private and show how they have this connection that's more than just friendship

The writers have wrote in the show since season 1 MANY parallels between Mike and Will and other official couples (Mileven too!!!) that are, in my opinion, hinting at them ending up together at the end of the show

You can find the parallels here

The writers have continously shown El and Mike to have some kind of problem in their relationship and made El decide to leave Mike behind multiple times even if to save his life because she loves him, the writers have been showing us how Mike is not her PLOT priority and instead they have put having a romantic relationship with Mike as Will's deepest desire since season 3

The writers are building up El's character to have a coming of age that has recurrent themes of her finding herself without the influence of others around her, her becoming completely free from any kind of influence, and Mike has been represented as having too many internal fears to overcome at the moment about their relationship, especially with the love monologue at the end of season 4, he has beliefs about himself as a person that clash with El's character arc about not having to feel influenced in any way, the end of the show for El should be her having complete freedom in all aspects of her life because of the circumstances of her upbringing... Not saying that Mike is influencing her in a bad way necessarily, I think they both love each other a lot but having a relationship with someone that is that much insecure about his role in your life because you have powers will always be a type of influence

The writers have shown Mike and El as not being a team at the same level by separating them constantly after s1, instead they have shown the other couples that work as working together in the supernatural plot (Jancy, Jopper, Lumax, Byler)

The writers have paralleled Mike and El's relationship to all the ships that are not working for some reasons/are not endgame and have more infatuation than a real "true love" kind of relationship (Steve x Nancy, Karen X Ted, Bob x Joyce)

The writers have wrote in multiple scenes of Mike acting awkward with Will (Mike!!! Not Will) or them having coded conversations about how much they care for each other that have no sense to exist unless there is a pay off at the end

The writers have presented El, Mike and Will as being in a love triangle and have been framing them in a love triangle composition in the framing of multiple scenes, with Mike at the centre

When during season 4 the writers talked about all the movies that have inspired season 4 and 5 they have put multiple movies with love triangles that are almost identical to the situation between Mike, El and Will

Will and Mike have multiple fight scenes that are scenes you give to two possible love interests usually, the way the fight happen is written as two lovers having emotional fights instead of as how you would write two friends fighting

The writers wrote in the show a precise parallel in all the scenes of Vickie and Robin... between them and Will and Mike, paralleling Mike to Vickie specifically... who is a canon bisexual character and even paralleling Steve and Jonathan in that context as observers of the couples!

The directors filmed their scenes how you would film romantic scenes in stuff like Bridgerton or a romcom lol

The whole painting scene was Will making Mike feel so loved that he felt comfortable being vulnerable with El, but this means he was still not comfortable on his own relationship with her, he didn't feel safe enough to open up on his own and needed that talk and needed to believe all of those ideas about him being the heart came from Eleven so that he made the jump and told her how he felt instead of being selfishly silent on it because he was too afraid of her possibly leaving him one day... When you are really deeply in love with someone in the context of movies the characters don't let those type of fears influence them and if what gives him courage is the feelings of another character in the love triangle it means he's the right person for the character

( idk if you saw gossip girl but the was a love triangle situation between Blair, Dan and another character where Dan made Blair believe the other character felt some type of way towards her, she understood that she loved Dan because of this act because she wanted those words to be from him and not from the other guy... The whole painting lie is that same trope)

The writers are obsessed with IT from Stephen King and there are clear parallels with it in the show, the whole plot of s4 about the painting is a reprise of the plot between the romantic relationship of Bev and Ben in IT (with the postcard and the poem) Beverly is supposed to be Mike, Ben is Will and Bill is El.... Mike and El share a kiss at the end of season 3 that is supposed to parallel a kiss between Bill and Bev (they did love each other and liked each other but are not endgame)

Both Will and Mike are queercoded multiple times during the seasons

There are WAYYYY more reasons but this post is becoming too long so I'll leave it as this lol

You should rewatch the show and imagine if Will was a girl, I think many people would be seeing what I'm talking about way more and take it as a sign that Mike is going to choose "Willow" and see how Will is the better love interest for him...

Maybe it's all just queerbaiting, who knows, but at the moment I believe this is way too much for it to be queerbait!

I personally think Mike is bisexual

Masterpost about it here

and has feelings for both of them, but his feelings for El have always been a "puppy love" type that is growing to become more platonic than romantic with time, and I think he's a best match with Will, I think Will is able to make him be the best he can be, he's capable of making Mike feel worthy in a very natural way unlike the relationship with El does at the moment!

In my fixed post in the blog you can find all these things in more detail if you're interested!!

Thank you if you read all of this, regardless of what I believe I think everybody should be free to ship what ship they like best!! 😊

[thefirstlioveyou]

"The Last Lie," as the final variation of "The First Lie," why it would be the perfect title

+ the importance of the the songs

(before anything: yes. i know. "it's literally just a song title." but obviously the song is important to the duffers if they wanted multiple versions to put in each season. this song is insight to what's not always being verbalized. the series of this song contains themes of queerness, romantic love, self-discovery, honesty and acceptance. all of it is meaningful and that includes the title pattern that's going on.)

ok so this is gonna be very much a rambling post.

but i was thinking of all the variations of "the first lie," and how the final one is most definitely gonna be for byler, or related to it in some way.

so far we've got... The First Lie (jancy) // The First I love You (mlvn s3 kiss, robin's coming out) // Being Different (Will's Monologue, 3:20-4:29)// Jopper scene S4

(yes. jopper has their own variation! you can tell by the lack of bass, extra added synths and different build up that it's a different version... i'm just not sure why it wasn't included in the soundtrack.)

i got bored and began thinking what the title would be if it were to be for byler.

i've noticed many people suggest to capitalize the 'L' in 'love' to prove that mike's love for will is something real, where as it wasn't for el.

i guess they could do that.

but... that requires them to say that phrase. and i really don't think mike and will are gonna say that to begin with, nor would i want that.

in the stranger things universe, "i love you" has only been a phrase used platonically or by failed relationships. the show really loves to depict love by actions or with other words. they enforce the theme "actions speak louder than words" with their relationships.

in real life, it's important to hear those words 'i love you.' however this is a fictional story that's crafted with precise choices to send an underlying message to the audience. so going by that this means that in this fictional world, el shouldn't need to hear mike say it. no other couple in the show had this issue other than stancy, and well.. you know how that ended up. bullshit.

mike and el had this issue because they don't love each other that way. the desire to hear it comes from none other than their codependency. they rely on each other to have some form of identity or purpose, slowly destructing who they really are in the process.

so while i understand why some may want mike to say 'i love you,' the point is he shouldn't have to say it. his actions should be enough to prove it, if we're following along the themes this narrative is trying to display.

his actions fall flat, and will continue to. although his actions ARE signs he CARES about her, their relationship has no chemistry and especially compatibility. there is no actual romantic love. just unhealthy attachment.

will feels better about himself, he feels loved as a whole, not just as mike's potential partner. mike makes him feel better for being different... but when has mike ever said anything specifically like that? he's never sat down and said, "hey, it's okay to be different." it's mike's actions that make him feel that way. mike's love for will is already being said without actually saying it, just like the other endgame ships. it's following the active theme.

and yeah it can get confusing.. because we're in the pov of will, who thinks it's unrequited... we lost mike's pov... mike's with el.. but the show is deliberately trying to make the audience (at least the heteronormative-blinded part) MISS it, so it can be a whole twist and all that and continue to enforce the theme they're going for.

and let's say the word 'love' is used, i think it'd be used in the context of a letter (ex: love, mike). i just really don't think they will make them say "i love you" if no other endgame couple has before. it disrupts the theme.

now, if not "The First I Love you," then what would be a good title?

personally, i like the idea of "The Last Lie."

why?

because mike needs to stop fucking lying to himself and denying his homosexual desire for his childhood best friend and stop pretending like that dragon poster isn't gay as fuck

no but, THINK ABOUT IT. (this is about to get severely cheesy and probably cringe inducing and i'm sorry)

imagine it. thee byler kiss scene, or whatever it ends up being (but it has to be related to them in some way). this is the moment in which mike finally confronts his truth and accepts it. he isn't bullshitting who he is anymore - being gay, his interests, his true personality.

the 'normal' boy who he tried so hard being... the 'normal' boy he risked his friendships and the love of his life just to be... the 'normal' boy that doesn't enjoy nerdy games... the 'normal' boy who he masked behind just to live a lie.

whether it's by words or a kiss, he's finally letting that lie of a boy go the moment he shares his love for will. and in those seconds of time, it's almost like a promise to himself that 'normal' boy would be the last lie he'll ever try to live again

i fucking love characters who break their own moral code. that's mike - the character that enforced telling the truth and being honest to those you care about, and still ended up being a liar all along.

and it's not even that mike's relearning "friends don't lie." no. he already gets that. we already get that. you're free to disagree here, but what i personally get from mike's overall character is that there will always be an inability to be truthful to others if you can't be truthful to yourself first. mike must live his live authentically and stay true to who he is and what defines him if he wants happiness. otherwise, the lie he digs himself into will only get bigger and bigger, and inevitably will destroy what's important to him (his relationships in this case) and himself.

all this... it already fits the themes the other song variations have been displayed in:

acceptance of a love and finally letting it in -> jancy/jopper

coming out and speaking your truth -> robin

queerness -> robin, mike, will

self-discovery -> mike

just imagine all of those themes just smashed into one title and scene. that track would carry so much meaningful weight.

Ok

maybe this post was just my secret love letter to those songs. but am i really crazy for caring about them? soundtracks in film/tv deserve more love! that little melody is clearly so important to the story, the way the titles it transitions through and what it tells us. i just think it's genuinely brilliant how they managed to do that with one instrumental. that's storytelling!!

ok i'm done now thank you kyle dixon & michael stein. ur my fave bylers