#Jack Shaughnessy | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

noybusiness · 3 months ago

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I think the biggest divergence point between the timelines is John getting the letter from Dean, because it leads to him getting involved in hunting. Without Dean, he never gets Henry's letter, never goes to the Men of Letters (heh) clubhouse, and never sees Mary fighting a demon. I imagine the impact of Vietnam on John was the same in both universes.

All the irony in John calling Dean "sir". It also, again, makes me want a show where Dean serves as the adult mentor to the Scooby Gang/Monster Club without John and Mary knowing he's their adult future/alternate son. Did you see the original Scooby Gang show, i.e. Buffy?

Nice to see Samuel behaving like a human being. I have issues with how he was written in Season 6. Like no one pointing out the incredibly obvious fact that sacrificing his grandsons to bring back his daughter would have resulted in her hating him forever, and that the boys were Mary's own legacy.

Too bad we only hear about the offscreen fight between Joan and Dean and don't see it.

I was expecting Ada to keep her secret for ages, based on her not telling them last episode, so I'm very glad that wasn't the case!

"(second round of applause for this, especially since it’s so rare that we get actual contingencies set up before the really risky move is executed rather than scrambling for a patch work after the fact)"

!!!

I didn't see the episodes of Supernatural with Cuthbert Sinclair, but it's interesting Henry was involved in some way with two Men of Letters who went evil (Cuthbert Sinclair and Jack Wilcox). I almost would have liked to see Jack and Dorothea in John and Mary's bodies temporarily, except John would be speaking with that horrible Southern accent unless Drake Rodger's attempt was much better than Charles Shaughnessy's.

Do you remember Kindred: The Embraced? https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/KindredTheEmbraced

Interesting that you assume William was her lover and Supernatural Wiki assumes he was her husband. It could also have been her son.

"-Cutting off Mary before she can say anything to John as they’re saying goodbye essentially, after he more or less poured his heart out? A choice on the writers part that I wholeheartedly agree with. Love the implications here."

I, too, prefer it that way. I wrote both answers to the Headscratcher about it here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Headscratchers/TheWinchesters

I can't wait till they retcon 15*20 away.

Funnily, we barely saw Dean's journal in Supernatural, just enough to know that he had one in Season 1, despite his sarcastic reaction to the shapeshifter therapist asking him if he journaled.

Yeah, how long do we think Mary's no-hunting life is gonna last. Ten seconds or five?

Glad that Ada's problem was fixed, was concerned she would gradually go all Dark Willow next season, though it does seem a bit rushed and possibly related to the show's on-the-bubble status. They so need a beach episode! Don't like how the show tends to separate John and Mary from Carlos and Lata.

Still excited at the idea of what they'd encounter next.

Still disappointed that the simultaneous Save/Renew petitions for this show and Gotham Knights didn't help. If you haven't seen Gotham Knights yet, I recommend it; it goes well with this show, stars Misha in an important role, and Jensen was supposed to cameo as Bruce Wayne originally.

The Winchesters 1x13 Review

Let’s just dive into this, it’s been a looong time coming:

-I completely forgot that John had had no idea what to do until he got the letter. I wonder if this is something that may have happened in OG SPN? Also, adding to this, we know that when Henry leaves in SPN, the Winchesters are still in Illinois, but in TW they are already moved. I want to know if there is a thread that matches the OG universe and if so when exactly it diverges. Like, did SPN!John have this feeling of complete loss of purpose when he returned from war? We have some hints to tell us yes, but ultimately we don’t know. Did SPN!John know Murphy? Did Murphy die/was his death impactful to John in SPN as it is in TW? I wish we had a bit more details about the similarities and differences in the universes.

-The fact that TW!John called Dean “sir” hurt me as much as it hurt Dean. You can see the pain. I also want to know how Dean left so quickly. Like suspension of disbelief is fine, but considering we have pictures of him in 1970s Lawrence in his car going place to place makes me think he’s at least somewhat constrained to physicality. So did he just dash? Also how did he get upstairs so quick also? So maybe he isn’t as constrained as I was picturing?

-Speaking of, how did Dean get that letter? I may be misremembering things here cuz it’s been a while since ep 1, but I always assumed that Dean would’ve gotten it from the MOL clubhouse prior to him deciding to interfere right? Is did we ever get this answer? If so though, I want to know how long Dean’s been in TW universe because it’s much longer than I remembered it being and how long did he ponder whether to interact with one of his folks?

-I fully believe Dean lied about the “one last hunt” to Bobby. There are reasons for this and I will mention it a bit later, but for now I want to mention that he can keep this promise and claim a loophole if he so chooses. He hadn’t left Heaven to hunt, he went searching for something personal and stumbled upon the Akrida. He’s still Dean Winchester, there was no way he’d be able to walk away and not at least try to help, nevermind the Akrida showing up because he and Sam defeated Chuck and he’d likely feel even more responsibility.

-I know this ep is coming full circle on all of aur characters growth, but I need to shout out Samuel here for asking Mary and actually backing away once she clarifies her own uncertainty despite his clear shock. The Samuel we met in the beginning of this wouldn’t have stopped until this devolved into a huge fight because Mary isn’t doing what he wants from her. Same to Millie, she just subtly prompted John about Mary leaving hunting and how he’s dealing without badgering or pushing. I also deeply appreciate both Samuel and Millie here inquiring about their kids’ emotional states, great progress.

-Joan mention! I cannot wait to get into this once she shows up fully.

-And speaking of growth of characters, I also love that for all we see everyone having evolved and developed, they are still to some degree who we met: case in point Mary’s knee jerk reaction if to withhold information. She ends up not really doing this, even trying to have a proper conversation with John later, but her reflex is still to withhold. It’s just that now she’s aware enough that she’ll change her approach.

-Adore the foreshadowing for the Akrida’s defeat “anything not of this Earth”. Especially with the sheer focus on Dean from both in-universe from the Scoobies and out of universe from the fans.

-Speaking of things I love though, can we just give a full round of applause for Ada not lying and keeping the secret about the spell from everyone? How many times has stuff exactly like this led to worse outcomes exactly because people didn’t communicate? And what’s more, it’s exactly because she mentions this that Lata gets a head start into a solution (second round of applause for this, especially since it’s so rare that we get actual contingencies set up before the really risky move is executed rather than scrambling for a patch work after the fact) and they don't end up using the spell until it’s really unavoidable which leads to the third round of applause for Carlos who prevents Ada from preemptively using the spell (hello direct answer to Jack turning himself into a bomb for Chuck and the plan derailing completely cuz they jumped the shark with it).

-Something to note though: souls function differently in TW apparently. In SPN the closest similar spell we have to what Ada has is Lily Sunder’s angelic magic which also uses fragments of soul as fuel, however unlike SPN where Lily burns piece by piece but ultimately still has the remaining soul after the spells, in TW they clarify that Ada’s soul will slowly dissipate if they take a fragment of it. It's so interesting to see the difference. I wonder why? Maybe souls evolved differently here, maybe the spell, by virtue of being one of Rowena’s (be it her own making a la soul bomb to kill Amara and save the sun or Book of the Damned bomb using your own life as sacrifice to close hell) makes it act differently? I really want to know.

-The bar being filled with Akrida possessed people is such a call back to the demon filled bars of SPN days and I love it.

-I do think that Joan knowing Dean couldn't interfere too much/make waves is very interesting. Especially since the Akrida are a Chuck designed failsafe.

-Also how did they get him into the portal? I need to know.

-Joan saying “his body will be torn to shreds for centuries” is doing multiple things for me. One, it’s recalling hell - especially having it be connected to Dean in pain for an extended period. Two, it’s giving us a hint of how Dean will survive while maintaining the stakes for the Scoobies (and to some degree for us since at this point on a 1st run through since we didn’t know how the portal would interact with Dean - dead or not he had a body that could be interacted with).

-“I’m not Akrida. I was human once” is sooo much fun to consider. Joan is very much this amalgamation of so many things, her former humanity, her ties to the Akrida and all that monster essence, and she’s essentially done it to herself, created Frankenstein’s monster outta Frankenstein. No wonder it went off the rails. She and Cuthbert Sinclair are two sides of a coin for me to be honest in this regard.

-It’s also here at the bar that Joan’s main strategy for dealing with the Scoobies gets shown, trying to appeal to the versions of them she has info on. Something that to be honest would’ve worked at the beginning of the season, even maybe halfway through the season might’ve worked. She tries with Samuel first, bringing up the hunting legacy of her family, then with Mary and John. Then when she gets to the clubhouse she goes for Lata, and in the final fight she once more hits John, Samuel and now Carlos. And she clearly pushes very specific trauma triggers for each, focusing most on John’s anger and Mary’s disillusionment with hunting because I think those are the ones she most relates to. Meanwhile with Lata and Carlos she almost pushes opposite by trying to point out how their changes are detrimental. By this I mean, with Mary and John she’s trying to reignite those feelings in them because she can tell they are still there to some degree (as mentioned they’ve both grown but still have a while to go) meanwhile for Lata and Carlos their growth was more foundational since they actively tried to heal versus Mary and John’s pushback against the healing. I hope this makes sense to y’all.

-Having Joan’s motivation be keeping hunters alive initially is so much fun to dig into. Everything she says to them about why she’s doing what she’s doing is something we’ve heard people talk about before, especially in SPN, especially Dean tbh. We’ve seen Dean struggle with the endless loss, with the weight of the responsibility to keep humanity safe, the toll saving the world took on him. Having Joan act as this dark mirror was a great choice. But also Dean would have never reached this point. Even at his darkest moments, he always drew a clear line about what he’s willing to sacrifice - yes, he also never had to deal with the loss of literally everyone everyone, there was always at least one thread, one person, but still.

-Lata fighting against the Akrida possessing her? Absolute queen behavior! Love her so much. Also Joan reducing her choice to be a pacifist as a black or white thing is very in line with what I was trying to say above. I can exemplify better here though so bare with me. Lata’s pacifism is both a very personal choice that means a lot to her and gives her personal meaning, is a part of her values. But it also used to be a literal blockage for her before ep 11 where any type of violence coming from her side reminded her of her father especially and of that trauma. More specifically, Lata also felt she had to be a pacifist otherwise she would be exactly like her abusive father. Ep 11 had her confronting her trauma and coming to terms with it, something she was already trying bit by bit to do, and re-evaluate what pacifism means to her. So Joan trying to reduce Lata attacking her to say that hunting has tainted Lata, is to completely ignore the complexity of Lata’s choice to be a pacifist and to ignore the very complicated relationship that Lata has to fighting. In this instance, Lata choosing to fight is a testament of how rooted in her sense of self she has become. She can fight back and not feel the guilt she used to, not feel like it’s a failure on her side to do so because anger and fighting do have a purpose and are important sometimes - like when your life is being threatened.

-Having Joan’s lover be the final thing that got her down the path of destruction is absolutely a choice on the writer’s side that I adore - definitely tying into the SPN!John of it all. I also find it interesting from another perspective. When I 1st watched the bar scene, Joan’s like of “that’s the John I know” had settled into my brain very differently to the point that I was almost certain they were going to reveal that Joan is actually another version of Mary a la Apocalypse world Mary who lost both her family and John, but much earlier. Basically, Joan is continuously this amalgamation of multiple things at once, the worst parts of each.

-Humanity wasting their second chance speech is giving Jigsaw to me tbh. I vibe.

-I love them figuring out that they can use the journal to bring Dean back, but imagine the version of this story where unsteady they use the journal to defeat Joan. It would’ve been hilarious.

-Love that the one Akrida that has had it out for John especially is the one possessing Lata btw. It makes the vitriol feel more personal and makes me think of both the Leviathan’s who hated playing Sam and Dean and of the disdain Lucifer has for humanity, but especially the Winchester brothers. I love this being another creature who is so pissed to deal with Winchester adjacent people that it’s begun just personally having a vendetta against all of Earth.

-“How many Campbells and Winchesters have to die” goes so unbelievably hard. Especially in the finale of the show now rewatching, but even on 1st watch I remember being hit right in the heart by that line. It’s the fact that I actually completely understand that reasoning and even agree with it that makes the Akrida and Joan especially so fascinating to me. She does have a point is the thing, especially considering the very personal interest God has had in the Campbells and Winchesters bloodlines. And following this up by talking about how history and legacy are playing a heavy role in this continuous suffering is also fantastic, because it is true, but it’s not the whole picture either. It’s not the only legacy and history the Campbells and Winchesters have to tell.

-And once again Chuck had done what he does best: created another world ending being that he then locked away to ensure the world doesn’t get destroyed ahead of time. He did this with Amara, Lucifer, the Leviathans, the Shedim, angels and demons getting thrown in the Empty counts too, the monsters being thrown in Purgatory also falls under this pattern of behavior. He really is a one trick pony on every level.

-Adore that Ada didn’t even hesitate to use the spell to save Lata. And even more love for the fact that everyone is sharing info so they can make a plan together, no one going off on their own like a moron, god the satisfaction of seeing this is unmatched.

-Cutting off Mary before she can say anything to John as they’re saying goodbye essentially, after he more or less poured his heart out? A choice on the writers part that I wholeheartedly agree with. Love the implications here.

-I also adore that it’s a swordfight. This show has gone out of its way to ensure minimal gun use and I think it was a great choice. Also love that all three of them, Samuel, John and Carlos get attacked at once by at least 2 Akrida.

-BABY!!! (this was the only reaction needed here - just BABY!!!)

-I wonder if Josie existed in this universe? Like did Joan just get rid of the MOL before Henry and Josie went to the church and meet Abaddon? Does Abaddon just not exist in this timeline? Did Henry even try to do field work in this universe? I have questions!

-Dean saving Mary will never not make me emotional ok? That’s what he’s wanted since he was 4!

-I also love that we have the most roundabout way of referencing Sam here. I will go into more detail why I especially love it, but just know I do.

-I do hate though that Dean still looks surprised that he got into Heaven and the reminder that he’s dead. I hate remembering that 15x20 is a thing that happened still.

-Living for Dean instantly jail-breaking Heaven though and then basically breaking his parole to interfere when he found the Akrida. Of course he couldn’t help himself, it’s Dean, he has never been able to ignore when something is wrong and he can help.

-Jack saying it’s time for Dean to return to his own story… I don’t disagree but I do object to the “there’ll be peace” mainly cuz Dean clearly isn’t done. And now I need t go into this a second. Because Jack is treating this situation with the Akrida as though this was Dean’s goal here. But the Akrida are the side quest, the thing that derailed the actual thing Dean’s been looking for when he took off from Heaven. Dean isn’t done. This may have helped him make peace with a chapter of his story, but that’s just it. It’s a chapter, the one about this parents’ tragedy. But he’s still looking. He didn’t leave heaven cuz he was looking specifically for John and Mary, he left the second he say Baby with no clear objective but the knowledge that he had to go. He found some meaning in his restlessness by looking for a version of his folks where they’re happy, but that’s just part of it. And you can see it by how he responds to Bobby in the beginning, how he talks to Jack here at the end. He isn’t done.

-“They’re family” is one of my favorite moments in this finale tbh. Because not only does he say this explicitly, he does so after introducing them by name. Which brings us back to what I was saying about Sam. In choosing to not name Sam to the gang, but explicitly naming Jack and Bobby who are Dean’s chosen family, it narratively sends a message that goes in direct opposition to what 15x20 was pushing. And to be clear, we do get Sam mentioned by name too, because Sam isn’t important to Dean just because he’s blood related to him, Sam is just as much part of Dean’s chosen family, but Sam is mentioned to Jack and Bobby, who, like us the audience, already know this information about Sam’s importance as opposed to Jack and Bobby who (and I am aware we the audience is aware of their importance too) are representative of all the other chosen family that gets pushed aside in 15x20 in favor of the blood relations. Sam here is important because of what he as a person means too the 3 of them, not because he’s Dean’s blood relative, but it does bare repeating that Jack and Bobby, not blood relatives, occupy the same level of importance in Dean’s life. This went so far in patching up some of the bullshit 15x20 peddled imo. I love it.

-I do gotta say I still think Jack was changed by the god power and I still don’t like it. Chuck won theory or not, Jack is visibly acting different from what we’ve become used to in SPN and that is a sadness I cannot begin to explain to me. He also deserved to live his life free of all this responsibility thrust upon him since he was conceived.

-Oh, I am so emotional about Dean imparting his journal to John and the Colt to Mary. I was mentioning earlier about legacy and history and this is exactly the part that contributes to that discussion. John, the MOL legacy gets the journal - the theoretical help more or less, especially with Dean’s journal having focused, as opposed to SPN!John’s very practical entries, on the emotional and mental side of hunting and how to handle all that hunting will throw at you. And Mary, the Hunter legacy gets the gun - the practical help, but even here, having the Colt be one of the only guns in the series makes it stand out without you needing to know the full significance of it being the Colt, and moreso, Dean is giving it as a protective measure as we the audience know it’s the only thing that can kill the yellow eyes demons. More than that, he is also actively healing with these both of the trauma’s SPN!John and SPN!Mary impart to him - with John the emotional absence and with Mary the physical absence while still helping these versions of them John with his still existing anger issues and Mary, as she’s navigating this no-hunting life, having the means to ensure she survives it. And on top of this, he is reclaiming the legacy/history of SPN!John’s journal and SPN!Mary’s death this way. I love everything about this choice.

-Now the ending scene. 1. The fact that we full on get to see that Ada will eventually be fine, adore it! 2. The reference to the famous beach episode wth, unmatched joy about it. 3. Mary and John actually compromising and finding a way to meet in the middle with everything? Fantastic. 4. Millie letting John go easily? Such a departure from the acidic words she’d thrown his way at the beginning of the show. 5. Samuel actually letting Mary know he’s going and saying he’ll keep in contact? Same vibes as Millie, love to see it. 6. Mary’s iconic baby blue car? I have missed it so much!

-And now, Ramble On closes us off and what a fantastic choice that they got it. It truly is the perfect song for this story. Because it makes it clear that this isn’t an ending. It’s a moving on to something else once you’ve finished whatever/wherever you were at. Dean’s story here has come to a close but he’s moving on to something else, he’s still behind Baby’s wheel searching. John and Mary’s story has ended for now, especially this chapter that had interference after interference from on high (Chuck’s especially via the Akrida and then Dean’s trying to clean up Chuck’s mess) and they can move on both from Lawrence geographically and from this predetermination that said interference was pushing via calling back to SPN as much as it was, now they can live their own lives, like Mary said, she saw every possible version of her and chooses to make her own path instead. (I do wonder what Dean saw, he was there much longer than her). So yea, the story has ended and the story goes on. Perfect choice for song closer.

-EDIT: I forgot to add about the title... oops! Basically, it's kinda tied to what I was saying about the song choice as well aka it's not an ending so it's not a goodbye per se. Something you have echoed actually by Mary and John twice in the episode. And it works as a pushback toward 15x20.

And so I am done too and figuring out what I’m moving on to! I’m sure there are still things that I can come up with to say about this show, and probably will continue to for a long while yet, but the reviews are done now and I’ve said most everything I wanted most to say so til I get something else I feel like mentioning, see y’all in the reblogs! Hope this was fun for you and I deeply appreciate all those who have been patient and stuck around to hear my opinion on this. Bye bye!

@shallowseeker, @noybusiness,@inspnity17, @pleaseraisemefromperdition, @doctorprofessorsong

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