#Incest is NOT wincest

[thesilliestspy]

whats your opinion on sniperspy:33

Sniperspy?

What zhe hell? Whoever told you I even slightly like zhat bushman is a liar. I am not into anyone who throws piss and is a recluse to zhe world.

[Mod: I dont mind SniperSpy. I actually find it rather cute, and it is something I will ship. It isnt proshipping and doesnt come off as really toxic or harmful so I like it. Thats how I feel about most TF2 ships. Other that SpyScout. Incest is NOT wincest people. Spy is just an ass and acts like he doesnt like anyone.]

[littledancingphoenix]

Can people in the Tekken fandom fucking stop with the incest ships thaaaaanks 🙃

[jackdoesstuff]

i dug too deep into the something rotten fandom and found people ACTUALLY SHIP INCEST IN THIS FANDOM?!

[samdeancrimespree]

unfriendly reminder that this is what sam and dean looked like when sam left for stanford

[flowersintheimpala69]

yall remember when Sam & Dean were investigating psychic siblings and were at a museum of famous psychics and the museum tour guide was like “sibling psychic acts never lasted long cuz of the pressure of working together and being so close their entire lives” drawing a clear parallel between the psychic siblings and Sam & Dean esp cuz in that episode they’d just had a fight and then the tour guide went “but not the campbell (Sam and Dean’s mother’s MAIDAN name) brothers tho cuz they were actually boyfriends”

so basically the narrative draws a clear parallel between these psychic siblings and Sam&Dean and then turns around and goes “those psychic ‘siblings’ were fucking btw” like whatttt

[shadystranger]

You hang up

No you hang up first

Hehehe

Hehehe

[meowdy-all]

I know i did NOT just get a wincest shipper across my dash in the year 2024

[loving-family-poll]

Ultimate Incest Tournament - Semifinals

Propaganda under the cut:

Sam/Dean:

I'm sorry but they have it all. children of metaphorical incest just continuing the cycle in any way they can. they are brothers and mother + son and wives and each other's scorned lovers and life partners they've had multiple infidelity arcs they are sexually psychopathic together they have forsook life and morality and the earth itself for each other and just love each other so much . They are literally in a heaven of their own making together for eternity, incestuously. Come on!!! Blueprint!!!!! It's not gay if he's your brother!!!!!

dean did stuff to sam's dead body in ahbl. i just know it

Messed-up, isolated sibs with all the daddy and abandonment issues. Their lives are so claustrophobic with the brothers no more than five feet apart in the car, a motel room, or standing next to civilians (face it, they are frigging magnets). Can't leave out that they are always touching each other to check for wounds which is a huge PLUS for any shipper.

Sam and Dean ARE literally the blowjob brothers. They walk into a situation and everyone goes well well well if it isn't the blowjob brothers....... And they say. Yep. That's us. And then they fix the situation with their epic love story

THE classic, iconic, show shopping, never done before etc. etc. incest ship. It changed fandom and it changed the world

Dave/Rose:

Daverose blondetwin sweep because they were codependent without ever meeting from growing up seeing each other in their dreams

What does it mean to be an abused teenage boy growing up alone and seeing a girl in your dreams every night who is also your best friend. and when you finally meet her you go on a suicide mission together even though nobody was asking you to die with her. and then you are the only two human beings left in the recognizable universe on a cold meteor surrounded by aliens but you’re glad it’s with her. and when you finally touch the girl from your childhood dreams she looks exactly like you. because she’s your sister

I don't have words for how good these snarky assholes are together. DaveRose is brain chemistry changing. They both put up so many fronts, and engage in so much snarky wordplay, and are constantly trying to get under each other's facade. They play off each other so well, witty and sharp, I need them to be together always

We all die & we all die alone are the two cold truths of the universe but dave and rose broke both simultaneously by ascending to godhood together

Their twincest wins because it is just so confusingly tragic? profound? dave leaving rose behind in a doomed world, dave following her to the bomb. they are both so closed & cut off & curt its hard to imagine the depth of these things. but that is their love language: giving up their lives for each other over and over, in a confusing and fumbling and heartfelt love song. i can’t say i love you but i know we’ll die together anyway. because we’re made of the exact same stuff. i’ll find you again at the last moment. that’s love.

THEY DIED TOGETHER, YOUR HONOR

Confirmed canon by the author, (something happened) between them. Parallels of dying by each other's sides in EVERY timeline. They are THE womb-to-tomb. There is nothing platonic about winking at your brother while talking about crushes, that shit is incestuous. Seer/Knight archetype. They will die protecting each other.

do you realize love someone if you don’t follow them on a suicide mission into the gaping maw of a literal fucking sun after they knock you out and psychoanalyze you in your dreams? the blueprint of the “ethereal androgynous blonde boygirl twins” trope. witch/knight dynamics. they find each other to die together in every timeline no matter what (but they’re still emotionally constipated teenagers who bicker and make fun of each other in pesterchum). kids with grown-up powers. perfect little freaks of nature. what if we looked exactly like each other’s eyes

[schizosamwincester]

I don't think we talk enough about how in "Heart" (Season 2 Episode 17), as Sam is about to have sex with Madison, Dean excuses himself to go back to the motel and watch Pay Per View. It is, in fact, canon that in that episode, Sam and Dean were both getting off at the same time.

They didn't have to do that. They could have had Dean do anything else. He didn't even have to say what he was doing. But this is The Incest show, so, the writers went "look. The CW would never let Sam and Dean fuck. But we can have Dean jerk off while Sam fucks, and that's almost as good."

Also there is no way Dean was actually watching porn. He was jerking off purely to knowing that right at that very moment, Sam was panting and moaning in ecstasy.

[ahouseinkansas]

do/did people ever talk about in point of no return (s5 ep 17 or 18 i think) how Zachariah says sam and dean are EROTICALLY CODEPENDENT ON EACH OTHER . why would he say thag im gonna lose it

[frownyalfred]

Can I get clarification on your pro shipping post? The example you gave was a 20 year old with a 40 year old, and that's "problematic" (not really), but not really what I think of when I hear "pro shipping". Usually it's the shipping of minor/adult or incestuous relationships that I see getting defended. Does being against fictional works/ships that depict pedophilic or incestuous relationships as normal/romantic count as puritanism to you? Do you see the ship of Bruce Wayne/Damian Wayne as a personal preference with no moral implications?

I think there's a huge difference between being personally against something, and wanting to shame others or ban others from reading or writing something. The Puritanism comes from wanting to limit and ostracize others who don't share your beliefs. It comes from believing that your perspective is the only morally right one.

I think there will always be people who want to write or read about ships like that, yeah -- incest, pseudo-incest, everything in between. By moral implications, do you mean for the person interested in the ship? Or do you mean for others? Because I see that concern a lot on here -- this idea that somehow, by wanting to read/write about something, people are either 1) harming others by spreading this morally wrong ship or 2) harming themselves by normalizing the ship, and therefore making it more likely that they'll pursue similar relationships in their real lives.

We don't have much evidence for either of those claims. People have been clutching their pearls and wringing their hands over "morally wrong" books for ages -- and yet, Game of Thrones is still available in every bookstore. Am I a bad or woefully misguided person for having read Lolita in high school? Is a 16 year old reading a Bruce/Damian fic likely to turn around, shrug, and say "guess fucking my Dad is okay now"? Did an entire generation of fans shipping Wincest somehow have lasting, moral effects? I really don't think so. Not at the scale anti-shippers online seem to think, at least.

I think we need to separate how we moralize people from the content that they consume. And acknowledge that shaming and excluding people for wanting to read something doesn't exactly do much to prevent "moral implications." There's also a huge difference between reading a book, and endorsing the ideas/events inside of it. Same things with fics.

Anti-shipping is very appealing to people because it purports to protect people from harm. Until you look a little closer, and you realize that that protection comes at the expense of free expression, creative license, and agency to choose what we personally do and do not consume. And that that protection isn't really airtight out of your anti-shipping discord or tumblr community.

I think the best we can do is let people write and read what they want -- whatever they want, with limited warnings/etc like ao3 employs -- and ensure that those pieces of content are tagged, warned, and displayed accurately. We need to understand that the only control we have is over ourselves, and what we choose personally to consume or not consume.

I don't generally read those fics you mentioned, but I'm not saying they should be banned from ao3. Just because I might possibly think they're wrong or gross doesn't mean I think the person who wrote them is wrong or gross, either. The more we go down that moral slip and slide, like I said in my previous post, the worse off we will all become.

[incesthemes]

there is interesting johndean subtext and insinuations across kripke era, usually through an antagonist insinuating parent-child sexual violence in order to exert dominance over dean. this type of mockery exploits that ambiguous relationship between john and dean and reminds dean that he never had a normal relationship with his father, and that makes him gross and wrong. it doesn't actually matter in the end whether john was sexually abusive to dean. the core of their relationship was damning enough: dean was made to take the place of john's wife—to comfort john and raise sam—while simultaneously being his son. the codependent nature of their relationship implies the incest that underscores their dynamic. again, this is regardless of what literally occurred between dean and john because there is enough doubt toward the nature of their relationship that multiple antagonists can use it against them.

sonwife, brotherhusband—dean is stuck in a liminal space between family and lover and is unable to put his feet firmly on just one side and instead has to accept both together or abandon both together. he doesn't get to have a relationship with his family without it being simultaneously incestuous. he plays the role of wife to john and mother to sam as mary's replacement; he therefore becomes more than a son and transcends the boundaries of the familial into the incestuous. it's baked into the dynamic and he can't hope to escape the liminality in which he's stuck without abandoning his entire family altogether.

this ambiguous relationship is further acted out with sam, where people perceive them as lovers rather than brothers; where their mutual devotion trumps, neglects, and disallows any other close relationship outside each other; where their physical closeness is viewed through an unusually sexual lens despite no literal sex acts between them taking place on screen. once again dean is stuck in a liminal space, paralleling the ambiguous and uncertain relationship he had with john.

in the end, sex (and sexual violence) is just a symbol of this codependency and uncertainly incestuous dynamic. sex acts in kripke era end up being symbolic: misinterpretations of sam and dean's relationship; accusations of sexual violence; literal, on-screen sexual moments between the brothers and someone else. it's a literary device that highlights the incestuous themes of the show. dean hand-picks women for sam to fuck because it allows dean to be symbolically part of sam's sex life. henricksen accuses john of raping dean because it is a symbol of the unhealthy, codependent relationship dean had with his father. the samulet stays on during sex because sam is symbolically integral to dean's sexual gratification (seen too in the way both dean and cassie in 1.13 appear to kiss the amulet at least once in the dark room). sex is used to signify more than what's literally on the screen, and the connections between the literal sex acts and the blurred lines of dean's familial relationships allow for a reading of incest between both john and dean and sam and dean.

it never mattered whether johndean or samdean had a sexual relationship in the canon because that was never the point. the point is the liminality that permeates the narrative. sam, dean, and john all stand upon a threshold between acceptable and taboo. the point of it all is the doubt and anxiety, the are-they-aren't-they that is never answered. the absence of incest within the text invites the understanding that the incest was, in fact, always there.

[chocolate-milkuwu]

[flowersintheimpala69]

Interesting how Sam’s equivalent to Amelia losing her husband is him losing Dean,, like to relate to Amelia he could have brought up Jessica or Amy or Madison or even Ruby but instead he brought up his brother,, huh

[ihatedean]

it's so small but there's something so interesting to me about the fact that when dean makes eileen's "pro list" with sam he says "she gets it. she gets us" instead of... you know, the much more normal and sane alternative when talking about your brother's potential partner, "she gets you."

it speaks volumes I think because there are so many examples of their attempts at a committed relationship failing specifically because [she] (insert whatever name you want here) did not get them. like, as a unit. [she] understood sam or understood dean and could maybe have given them something they wanted; you think you love someone, and yeah, there's baggage, he's been through some shit he doesn't want to talk about, but sometimes that's relationships, right? but if you had to pinpoint a moment in the relationship when things got bad, it would literally be the second the brother shows up. that's when you realize this man can't even imagine being anything but a half of something else. you love a person that is incapable of seeing himself as such. you loved a coping mechanism.

i don't think dean believes sam ever needed his seal of approval to be with eileen, not consciously at least, but the highlight of these late seasons is witnessing the aftermath of these two accepting that they cannot breathe if they don't know where the other one is. even worse, how natural they make it seem. of course i killed myself to bring you back. water is wet, dude, keep up. and just like dean said, eileen just... gets that. definitely because she met them at a very different point in their lives in comparison to, say, lisa or amelia. they have a security that only comes with seeing with your own eyes as your brother literally kills death for you. eillen knows that if she wants sam, he'll always carry dean with him. she might not fully understand how deep it goes or how bad it can get because she never witnessed it, all she knows is that brother trumps over girlfriend, she's not fighting it.

compared to sam who barely opens up to his partners and i assume only scratched the surface of The Thing with his brother, dean personally had his ex calling him out on his weird relationship with sam. like, lisa borderline insults them lol and though i don't think lisa's words made him insecure about it, it's not surprising he'd be more aware of eileen's reaction to it. "i tried the family thing" essentially means "i let someone see it."

if eileen stays there she'll be dating the two of them, just... in a not-fun, very unsexy way. and no one in that bunker stops for a second to think how deeply disturbing that is.

anyways i wrote this three days ago and thought maybe my brain made up the "she gets us" part, so i looked up the clip to make sure i'm not crazy and found this in the comments. thank you sinasina4170 on youtube two years ago. you said it a lot better in a lot less words.

[sammyofold]

Kinda crazy how people who only know about supernatural through tumblr exposure tend to think it's about Cas and Dean with Sam maybe being there in the background when this whole show is about Dean and Sam being insane and obsessive about each other. and Cas is, like, there sometimes. Literally a total reversal of what the show is perceived as by outsiders