#I was starting to think I wouldn't write any meta for this season

[louisinart]

rewatching ofmd s1 and I'm absolutely blown away by how much Jim comes into themselves by the end of season two. Knowing the character they become its really stunning to see how disengaged and cynical they are at the start of it all.

Their motivations are almost entirely reactive, to escape Spanish jackie and then to live out their nanas dream of justice. The while time they are in survival mode, moving quickly and efficiently and quietly. Ultimately, moving how they were trained to and nothing else. Because it works! It works so well that I didn't consider something might be missing.

But in season two they're made to be messy, loud. They are stuck on Ed's Breakdown Ship and so have to act differently than they ever have. Not just because they are yelling and screaming and covered in blood cutting a guys leg off, either. They're connecting and caring and critiquing and supporting, they're emotionally engaged in a real way that they very much weren't in season 1. Every day on Ed's ship is horrible, but at least they're present for it. Every day pushes them to be in survival mode but they refuse. They tell fang a story, they kiss Archie back. When Ed says "kill or die" they say "no."

And then, after all that, when they finally get to rest again? Yeah, it's a rough transition, but once they get through it they're absolutely fucking teeming with life. They're painting on a mustache, they're creating conspiracies, they're crossing boundaries to get olus girlfriend back. When the dust settles Jim is inhabiting themselves in a way we haven't seen in the show previously. There is a richness to their character that feels incredibly natural and earned, to the point that I didn't even notice it until I went back to season one and realized how lost they were.

Its pretty obvious that this show is about Ed and stedes collective mid life crisis, but it wasn't until now that I realized its also Jim's coming of age

[lol-jackles]

Hello,

It’s nice to see you more active on here at the moment.

I was thinking about how you tend to say that the bi-bros who lean towards Sam are more in line with the GA.

But, I watch lots of reactors watch SPN for the first time, and they often lean towards Dean (I’d say 3/5), and I’ve heard a similar ratio say that they think Jensen is a noticeably better actor than Jared.

So, my questions are, are they letting fan expectations colour their reactions (hellers and Dean girls are very fast to pounce on new reactors), are they already Destiel curious from seeing edits in tumblr (I know of at least one who fits this), or do they acquaint “they make me feel emotional therefore they are the best actor”?

For me personally, on my first watch, Dean killed me with his love for family and Sammy and I empathized more with him usually, at least until Season 4/5 where he started pissing me off regularly. But, when I rewatch, I love episodes like Mystery Spot and Born Under a Bad Sign, or Souless Sam episodes because Jared is just so good when he gets something interesting to do. I find the Dean crying stuff less compelling on rewatches because it’s not as interesting to me (with a few expectations) after the first and second viewing. And acting at mirrors scenes gets old for me in particular very quickly.

In short, I think both are good, with different strengths, but I wonder why so many new viewers that I come across see Jensen as being stronger and Dean as being better. Do the just fail to see past the narrative bias? Or they just like Sean because he’s more fun?

Anyway, I appreciate any thoughts you want to share on this. And I’m also wondering if there is stats anywhere in GA favoring Sam?

First, because Sam girls commit “geek social fallacies” by also liking Dean because they love that Dean revolves around their Sammy. But Dean/Jensen stans don’t return the favor because they hate that Dean revolves around his Sammy so they hate on Sammy even though under their breath they’ve said if Jensen had been playing Sammy all along they wouldn’t change any of the writing.  That’s why there appears to be a Dean bias in the SPN fandom because Sam fans also likes Dean.  

It’s not a coincidence that Sam girls are the fandom’s official representative (all the meta fans on the show are Sam fans).   The show is mostly Sam-centric, if the bitter Sam girls won’t believe me then believe Jensen’s interviews when he said that SPN is Sam-centric and called season 10 a "rare Dean-centric storyline". (X)

Second, Dean is supposed to be a scene stealer, that's what support-protagonist do.  Often our favorite characters are not the protagonist but these scene stealers characters, they are usually cool or very funny. But it becomes a problem when producers try to capitalize on the character’s popularity, like creating a spin-off.   Like spices, which can not take the place of the main course, scene stealers often fail as leads because their “special-ness” evaporates when they have to carry the show. It's why WB canceled Supernatural when Jared told them he was leaving, because they knew a Dean-led Supernatural wouldn't work.

So while I'm watching an episode, I am more drawn to Dean because he’s more fun or interesting to watch. However the next day I remember the episode through Sam’s actions and interactions. Some of my readers tell me that they were surprised that they seem to “forget” Dean when they recall specific storylines, I said that’s supposed to happen with the support-protagonist.  We don't remember much of what John Watson did in the classic Sherlock Holmes or what was Nick Carraway's deal in The Great Gatsby.

It's the protagonist who mobilizes the story and stands out in readers’ or audiences’ minds.  Dean needs interaction with Sam in order for the audience to even remember him because he's part of the protagonist’s story. It’s why I keep saying Supernatural is Sam’s story, it's his Hero’s Journey.   Dean is at his best when he’s focused on Sam (which is why season 10 sucked and season 5 was kind of weak).

Third, Jensen is a personality actor and people are generally more drawn to them. Jared is a character actor who is trapped in a leading man role. Jensen has been Jensen “Dean Winchester” Ackles for the majority of his TV and movie roles since 1998.  It’s why Jensen initially made a bigger splash with Dean in the early Supernatural seasons because he’s already been playing Dean for years since Days of Our Lives.  In 2005 when SPN premiered, Jensen had a 7 years head start playing Dean compared to Jared who was just starting to play Sam and had to create Sam from scratch.  By season 3, audiences began to notice Jared's versatile acting skills and he would soon be tasked with playing different characters because that's what character actors do.

[rockwgooglyeyes]

warning!! this gets really long lmao - talking about themes in Arcane season two - arcane season two spoilers, kind of obvious but need to clarify. i dont talk about shipping in this at all btw! i have ships i like but like that's not here nor there, not relevant for this imo

I was watching an Arcane analysis video and while I wouldn't really go out on a limb and say that "I know what season two was about" like the themes and stuff because the themes found in a work are, inherently, going to be subjective and up to audience interpretation, and obviously, I'm not going to say that "I know Arcane's themes better than anyone else," I don't, that's not what this is about, but I would argue that season two does have a few universal themes. Some of those are carried over from season one, being relationships and love in general, what we are willing to do for love, but there are some that are focused on more so in season two than in season one.

This might have been said before- I don't really touch the analysis/meta side of the fandom, so I am sorry if I'm retreading old ground. Additionally, while I don't think that season two was nearly as perfect as season one, I enjoyed both and I think they were both solid, enjoyable seasons. The writing in season two was not immaculate but it was not bad, either. If not held in comparison to season one, I doubt it would be judged so harshly. Nevertheless, that's a whole other can of worms, and one that I would really rather not open.

Back to the themes- my argument is that, if season one is about siblings (sisters specifically), trauma, and change, then I would say that sacrifice, love, and the consequences of death, are the main themes in season two. These are all themes that are present in season one (Vander's sacrifice for Violet & Powder, the consequences of Vander & Silco's deaths, love is relevant w/pretty much everything) but they are focused on more heavily in season two.

These in particular are seen but not limited to Jinx's sacrifice for Vi at the very end, Heimerdinger's presumed sacrifice for Ekko, (the more sacrifice oriented ones), Jayce choosing to save Viktor, Caitlyn's fixation on Jinx and her descent into tyranny, Mel being forced to kill her mother, and Singed's obsession with keeping his daughter alive (the consequences of death).

These are the themes that stuck out to me as the biggest because, while there are the more philosophical, overarching ideas of fate and evolution and the multiverse, that's not really something that is widely accessible and they are themes, yes but they are not through-lines for every character. I mean, the fate one could be argued, General Medarda fated to be taken down by family, Jinx and Vander both fated to die, Viktor fated to fail (unable to achieve Hextech dream of helping the undercity, unable to achieve glorious evolution), etc etc, and I would say that fate is probably the trickiest of these themes to really dissect because it is carried out as expected as many times as it is subverted. It's also not really what I am trying to address here lmao

I would argue that there is the consistent theme of the consequences of death, which I know is a little bit of a long theme, themes are supposed to be one word most of the time, but I can't just say that this is the theme of "grief" because it's not just grief. It is about what people do in response to the death of their loved ones. Arguably, that could be what the whole season is about, really. Jinx is reeling at the death of Silco and her starting the war with topside, she has a death wish and she wants to "repent" in a way for killing Silco and for choosing to embrace being "Jinx" which is something she doesn't see any way of coming back from. She finds a will to live in Isha, who gives her a purpose and a reason to stay alive, and that gives her the ability to eventually attempt reconciliation with Vi. Caitlyn is screwed up over her mum's death, trying to maintain the relationships she once had in the face of all of her new responsibilities as well as the war looming, and with her preexisting obsession with Jinx being twisted by her mother's death, she wages war on Zaun and attempt to locate Jinx. In this manic grief, she forces Vi to make decisions that Vi isn't able to truly make (asking Vi to become an enforcer) and she kind of ends up burning all of her bridges, irrevocably changed by her trauma. Which, y'know, fair. At the same time, Vi is dealing with the death of "Powder", finally giving into Ekko's philosophy and vowing to hunt down her sister, which she isn't really able to do without Caitlyn there as a guiding light because Vi is fragile as it is, so when that relationship implodes, she throws herself into the deep end to avoid having to actually think about anything. That's interrupted by Jinx and then both of the sisters face a twisted version of their father, Vander, and try to process that.

Viktor is one of the most difficult ones because his story is so deepy intertwined with Jayce's, they have separate arcs but they are woven so closely together that they are nearly impossible to discuss without mentioning the other. Viktor is fatally injured by Jinx's missile and Jayce breaks his promise to destroy the Hexcore and using said Hexcore to save Viktor's life. This is two different sides of the "consequences of death" because one, Jayce's actions are the consequences of Viktor's temporary death, he acted rashly and in desperation, in a successful attempt to save Viktor's life but on the other hand, it gets into the consequences of death because, why was Viktor saved instead of anyone else, such as one of the council members? Why save Viktor instead of Caitlyn's mother? The consequences of Viktor's death was Jayce once again showing how devoted he is to Viktor specifically, against all odds, and choosing to defy death for someone he loves, which against the natural order of things and directly sets off a series of events that Heimerdinger warned of, and also, that Viktor was scared of.

When he returns, Viktor is himself but he is influenced heavily by the Hexcore, at the same time. He isolates himself and creates the utopia he dreamed of making with Hextech thanks to the powers of his Hexcore. He drives Jayce away on purpose, at first, but the more people who are added to the Hexcore, the more detached he becomes and the less he is trying to distance himself from Jayce. Jayce goes through the whole multiverse shenanigans and comes back grimy and determined to stop Viktor.

The arc for Jayce and Viktor in this season kind of mirrors Vi and Jinx, a bit, with the way that Jayce keeps choosing Viktor over and over, similarly to Vi choosing Jinx over and over, and like Vi hunting down Jinx, Jayce has a period where he turns against Viktor. At the same time, it's different, because it's almost as if this is the same arc that Jinx and Vi could have had if Vi did shoot Caitlyn and play along with Jinx's rules, because Jayce is finally absorbed into the Hexcore with everyone else and resolves most of Viktor's conflict by not giving up on Viktor. By choosing Viktor over everything else. By telling Viktor that even if he can't achieve his dreams, that doesn't make him broken, that his imperfections make him beautiful.

Ekko's story around the themes, I think, is more about the way that the butterfly effect works, how little choices make a big different, and how things could have gone if only things were different, as seen in his multiverse episode. That ties into the consequences of death via showing what could have happened if Vi were the one who died instead of Vander, how that would have impacted their family and their relationships, how it changed the trajectory of the plot overall. Additionally, Ekko is one of the characters grappling with the most grief at the very end, having lost Heimerdinger, who was a mentor to him, and Jinx, who he loved.

It's fascinating how Ekko's story shows specifically his response to loss (Heimerdinger) was to take action, make a practical choice. But also, he latches onto one of the most important people in his life who is still alive, Jinx, and while he is focused on saving the world, he's devoting a lot of effort to restoring Jinx, too, which isn't exactly the most practical decision he could be making. Jinx is notorious for her volatility and Ekko has seen that first hand, yet, he pulls her out of the gutter and will not let her give up. So, while he's more tertiary when it comes to sacrifice plots (Jinx and Heimerdinger) but when it comes to love and the consequences of death, he's pretty focal, as his story ends up largely being about his love for Jinx, his love for the world, and how he deals with Jinx's death and Heimerdinger's death.

I don't want to talk about Heimerdinger I don't like him I don't care.

I could talk about Mel and her relationship with her mother as well, the way it parallels Caitlyn's relationship with her mother, but this post is long enough as it is, so if I talk about that, I'm saving that for another day.

[blackbird-brewster]

Meta: Jemily Queerbaiting

With the huge influx of posts saying 'Jemily is gonna be canon', I really appreciated seeing this post because OP was completely correct. I didn't want to write an entire dissertation as a reply, so I'm making my own post with my personal opinion on this. (All sources are noted in footnotes)

Before I began this rant, for anyone who thinks this is anti-Jemily. It is not. I have shipped Jemily for 18 friggin years and that's never going to change. This post is specifically my thoughts about queer baiting.

First off, I need to note that the showrunners (and the cast members who use social media) KNOW what a huge queer following this show has and that's why we got pansexual Tara Lewis in S16 [1]. Which, in itself, was SOOOOOOO important!!! Our first canonically queer main in SIXTEEN seasons was a middle-aged Black woman!!! That's phenomenal. (The fact it was horrible rep, because they instantly ruined her relationships once her queerness served it's plot point is a whole other post entirely)

In my opinion, the 'big Jemily moment' Paget posted about on Twitter [2] (and AJ hinted at during a recent IG live) is simply queerbaiting to get people to watch S17. I know a lot of you are newer to the fandom and I love your enthusiasm, I really do, ship and let ship, but listen, let's be real, Jemily is not going to be made canon. The showrunners aren't going to suddenly say (after 17 seasons) 'Surprise, Jemily is endgame'. This show has never cared about queer rep and now that CBS/Paramount have already ticked their queer rep box with Tara, they won't be in any rush to add any other characters to it.

Please buckle in, I've got a lot of thoughts on this matter --

What is Queerbaiting?

If you aren't aware of what queerbaiting is, here's a good definition:

Historically, queerbaiting has carried two meanings: the first is an act of aggressive heterosexuality to shut down queer subtext on screen while still teasing and catering to the queer audience in advertising, public relations, and fan engagement strategies; the second is an existing homoerotic tension between two characters played up on screen while met with derision by the professionals behind the scenes. [3]

The Medium article quoted here is from 2017, a time when parasocial relationships were really starting to take over social media. In 2024, actors are now only a mention or tag away online, they have direct conversations with fans, and this process has allowed for an even deeper form of queerbaiting.

Oftentimes online, actors are asked directly about certain ships and while some ignore these questions (usually to avoid breaking their contracts or other repercussions), others (looking at you, Paget) choose to instead tease fans about queer ships. She's done this for years upon years and if I've learned anything in the past twenty-years of existing in fandom spaces it's this -- don't hold your breath. In it's original meaning, for something to be deemed as queerbaiting there had to be malicious, or at least, purposeful intent to string queer fans along by teasing them with suggestive content about the ship in question, while knowing this ship will never come to fruition in canon.

The thing to remember is, Paget and AJ aren't the only ones who know about Jemily shippers -- the network and showrunners are well aware of this ship too. When networks/showrunners figure out they have a strong sapphic fanbase, they love to use that to their advantage to get more viewers and higher ratings. Queerbaiting is a goldmine to keep fans watching long running shows, look at Rizzoli and Isles, Supergirl, and OUAT for examples of this.

Jemily and Queerbaiting:

Ever since Emily joined the BAU in S2 (2006), there have always been fans who ship JJ/Emily (shoutout to the old LJ forums!). Way before celebs were just a tweet away from fans, back when all our fics began with disclaimers so we wouldn't get sued by networks, we went to great lengths to keep our fanworks far removed from actors/showrunners attention.

As far as Jemily goes, this reply from Paget in a 2009 interview with TVGuide.com [4] (which has now been deleted from their site unfortunately, but there are quotes on Tumblr still [4.a]) confirmed some fans' worst fear -- the actors had found our fanworks online.

TVGuide.com: Of course, a band of fans want her to hook up with Hotch.

Brewster: I know! I didn't realize that fans make these videos on YouTube? A.J. Cook sent me a hilarious one that made it look like Prentiss and J.J. were having a secret lesbian affair. You know, when Hotch was blown up in the SUV, we shot this scene where he's in the hospital and I'm standing next to him, looking at his bleeding ear. Our director came in and said, "Paget, you're looking at Hotch like you're in love with him. It looks really weird." So now, every day, Thomas [Gibson] and I flutter our eyelids at each other.

This was the first time I recall anyone acknowledging Jemily shippers publicly and at the time (Jan 2009), the show was still in Season Four (just before CBS fired both AJ and Paget [5]). Paget genuinely said it's 'hilarious' that fans shipped JJ/Emily. Even now, I'll see people say 'We know Paget and AJ have seen Jemily fanvids, so they obviously ship it too' -- but those same people rarely acknowledge the full context of the original answer. Paget not only thought JJ/Emily were 'hilarious', but then she doubled down and turned her reply back to how she and Thomas liked to play up the chemistry between Emily/Hotch.

While no one can say for sure which video it was that AJ sent Paget, just knowing they were watching JJ/Emily fanvids sent a bit of a shockwave through the femslash side of the fandom. To some it felt like an invasion of privacy, fanworks are by fans for fans -- knowing the cast were poking around in fandom spaces added an extra layer of worry around what we fans were posting online. Fifteen years ago, it used to be quite taboo for actors to outwardly discuss shipping or other fanon for whatever show they were in, and we fans were usually comfortably removed from the actors altogether.

Of course, now it's the norm for fans and actors/showrunners to co-exist online and interact with one another. This connection has opened new ways for shows to queerbait their fans. Pretty much every show has some form of social media account now and there is no doubt that the people running those accounts keep up with the most popular ships and hashtags. Not to mention that actors are constantly barraged with questions about whether they ship their character with x,y,z, or whether they think a ship should be made canon, etc. These interactions only serve to benefit the shows themselves, because whether the conversation is for or against a certain ship, it's all just free publicity (Why do you think CM now has a TikTok account?)

Every time AJ or Paget say anything about Jemily, the queer side of the fandom loses their minds. But this has been going on for YEARS now and every single time, it turns out to be nothing but social media hype and queerbaiting. Remember this AJ post? [6] Or what about the notorious reply by Paget to a fan, where she talks about how she and AJ held hands under the table 'for the shippers' [7] I've seen this cycle over and over again, so perhaps I am cynical, but I'm not getting my hopes up that Jemily will ever seriously be canon.

It's widely known now, after both Kirsten [8] and Paget [9] have talked about it, that there was an early idea where Prentiss was supposed to be queer, but that was ultimately scraped before it ever made it on screen. For context, please remember, this show has been airing for nearly twenty years. It began in 2005, during the highly conservative Bush administration. Queer people didn't have rights in the US, we couldn't get married, we were rarely protected under discrimination laws, and we could even be fired for simply being queer (in some states). Diverse queer representation on screen was extremely limited to things like 'The L Word' and 'Queer as Folk' (both aired on Showtime, so they were behind a paywall. And as far as tLw goes, that show was extremely male-gaze focused and is horrible in nearly all regards if you try to rewatch it now). As far as prime time shows went, queer rep was even more rare. Which is why Emily wasn't queer from the get-go.

Yes, things have changed since 2006 in terms of queer rep on TV. We have a myriad of queer identities represented in TV and film nowadays, which is why I think it's so easy for newer fans to say 'lf she was supposed to be gay anyway, they should just make Emily queer in canon!' I know this is what fuels most fans' demands for Emily being confirmed queer, and I get it, I DO. I would be all for it! However, I do not, in one hundred years, actually believe that is going to happen after they already canonically queer confirmed Tara in S16. The fact we even got ONE queer character is ground-breaking for this show.

It's also worth noting, that in the time between Paget's departure in 2012 and her return in 2016, she became very active on Twitter. This was when more and more fans began asking her about Jemily and after Kirsten's AfterEllen interview, fans also pushed for Paget to address the possibility of Emily being gay. 'Pushed' is actually an understatement for some of the outright harassment she would receive. (AJ received some of this harassment too, but less so because she doesn't use social media ass often) Back then, neither of them replied to these things directly. Yet, no matter what either woman posted, the replies were full of Jemily stans begging for her acknowledgement. (Did you know 'stan' is literally a term coined for stalker fans?) I remember one time AJ's friend was missing and she posted info on her IG about it, you know what the replies were? People asking her about Jemily. It was genuinely sickening.

Within this context, it was no surprise to fans when Emily came back in S12 , she and JJ's friendship was seemingly erased. The two women were rarely on screen together in the late seasons, plus the writers saw fit to even give Emily not only one (Mark in London, but two, on-screen boyfriends for the first time in the entire series. I personally do not think these changes to Emily's character were coincidence, I saw the hellscape of what people would say to AJ and Paget online and I fully believe that upon Paget's return to the show, the showrunners purposely tried to distance JJ and Emily to dissuade the more abusive side of the fanbase.

Can I prove that, no. But it is the only reason I can think of as to why Emily S12+ seemingly didn't care about JJ anymore, despite their deep and meaningful friendship. I mean, they both CROSSED THE WORLD to go rescue each other in prior canon -- but when Emily comes back, they acted like they barely knew each other. This was even more prevalent in S16, when JJ's main storylines all revolved around Will, and Emily barely looked at JJ in the entirety of ten episodes. (Remember how Prentiss didn't even hug JJ after bomb, but she did go hug Luke?)

So, do Paget and AJ earnestly ship Jemily, or are they continuing the long tradition of queerbaiting us? Who fucking knows, not me. But based on the history of this fandom, I think I can make a safe bet. (Interestingly, if you search all of Paget's twitter for the word 'Jemily' [10] she only has 3 direct tweets mentioning the ship. I don't think it's a coincidence that two are within the past few months since they started filming S17 (the other one was a RT of Kirsten (who tagged something Jemily)

This is all to say --

Just because Paget and AJ have publicly talked about Jemily,, this doesn't mean it's ever going to happen on screen. And you know what, THAT'S OKAY!! There has been this constant outcry (after Tara became queer confirmed) of 'Do Emily next' or 'Why wasn't it Emily with a girlfriend!?' and 'Jemily needs to be canon in S17!' -- as if people believe their ships aren't worth anything unless they are canon.

That couldn't be further from the truth! Fandom is built on headcanons and fan interpretations and rare pairs and all types of shippers. Your ship does NOT need to be canon for you to enjoy it. I will ship Jemily forever, no matter what. I don't think there will be some magical queer plot in S17, at best, we might actually get to see Emily/JJ on screen together again and after the train wreck that was S16 -- I'll take whatever I can get.

And hey -- if I am completely wrong, if Erica Messer pulls a Korrasami out of her hat, I will be ecstatic. I will be happy to be proved wrong, but at the same time, I'm not going to lose sleep over it and I'm DEFINITELY not going to go hound the actors about it on social media.

Sources:

[1] 2022 Digital Spy article about the importance of Tara's coming out

[2] 04/18/24 Paget Tweet

[3] 2017 Queerbaiting article from medium.com

[4] 2009 Broken TVGuide link

[4.a] Tumblr quote from the above TVGuide Interview

[5] 2010 Kirsten interview screenrant.com

[6] 2019 AJ Instagram Post

[7] 2020 Paget video on Twitter (via @karasluthqr)

[8] 2015 Kirsten interview AfterEllen.com

[9] 2016 Paget Interview CriminalMindsFans.com

[10] @PagetPaget search 'Jemily'

[coffeegnomee]

Im curious, if you had to make a required reading list or VODs to watch before anyone was added to Lifesteal, what would you put on there? My starting point would be barrier blocks and then I think I’d lose my sense of ideas

oh like for new players? hmmmm. barrier blocks for sure because it breaks down how the server works from the meta. and then some explanation of the cycles by someone, i'm partial to my post but that's pure bias.

but maybe a hot take, but i don't think new members need to watch the past, esp vods. i think it skews their perception of the server.

this is something that i thought about a lot last season looking at minutetech, bc he's been watching lifesteal for a long long time.

but it hit me one day during the joker arc just how insane it is to go from being a viewer to being a player on the server. because you can watch two players interact all day every day and see how lifesteal works,

but that's not YOU there in that conversation. You yourself are going to be different and will affect the story completely differently than anyone else.

you can watch mapicc and zam talk, but take out one of them and they're going to act differently towards you than they act towards each other. it doesn't really matter how they are between each other or any other member, you have to survive for yourself.

and it hit me in the joker arc bc minute had this perception of zam, knowing that he cares about the server and isn't this destructive, but none of that mattered because 1) zam had been changed by s4 and all of s5 up to that point and 2) minute was being a menace Specifically to zam, not dying all season, and now wanting to end the server in peace, which zam was absolutely against.

minute's actions changed how zam approached their relationship, so it didn't matter how much minute knew about the server and about its players, he was going to have to figure it out for himself what to do.

and i think a little (or a lot) of the tension this season is because kab and derap were longtime viewers before joining. they both have a perception on how zam is and acts and it affects how they interact with him, but zam doesn't have any of that same kind of backstory for them so he acts differently than they might expect. this was huge in how derap was pushing zam do things for himself so he wouldn't burnout and go evil like he always does. and kab thinking he was spineless bc all she remembers is eclipse (though her memory for the past is so terrible)

mane was also a long time viewer, but it doesn't feel like he's particularly taking the relational knowledge and putting it to use (at least not yet), but he did have a perception that lifesteal is all about the pvp and he had to learn otherwise. idk who he definitely watched, but it was for sure zam since s2 (when he also took mapicc and zam in a 2v1 and thought he would win but then got obliterated by them which made him realize the lifestealers were better at pvp than he expected) and obviously probably clownpierce and between that you would think it's only fighting. and probably write off zam being zam for why he would take loosing fights, but conclude that that was not being the point of the server.

basically your best teacher for how lifesteal works is logging on and doing things.

but i also might change my mind on this. there's a good number of youtube videos i think would be good for new members to watch, the cleansing and s3 finale, s4 TA prison (and bacon's second channel video on how he got in), leo's s3 finale and the dupe war, honestly spoke's wormhole truth video, subz's repairing s4 spawn after duper war, clown's funhouse. kind of a broad strokes on the exploits used and how, different types of video ideas, and a bit on how teaming and betrayal plays out.

but the lore just lores, you can't understand how it works until you live it.

but as an audience member i got lists and lists of required vods because i think for us it is always good to understand how people interact with each other in the past to understand why they are the way they are now. and we're not actually involved in anything.

[potterandpromises]

the LA plot for omitb has the trio in hollywood bc a movie is being made about them and based on the onset pic with their actor counterparts (they were wearing what the trio was wearing in the pilot ep), part of the movie theyre making is set during s1 which theo is an integral part of so most likely there might be a character based on him in the movie too. do you think they'd have theo in s4 in any capacity? id honestly be upset if theyd drop theo the way they dropped oscar

*Spoilers*

I am at least 95% certain Theo will be in at least one episode of season 4. Mostly because they wouldn't have brought him back in season 2, fleshed him out, then brought him back and fleshed him out again in season 3 if they didn't want him around for the long haul. They especially would not have had Mabel move in with him. In other words, the writers seem more invested in his character then they ever were in Oscar's or Lucy's.

The ≈5% is in case there was a scheduling conflict/other issue with James Caverly (which I think is unlikely, just based off of interviews and what I know of his career.) My understanding is that they wrote Oscar out at least in part because of a scheduling conflict, though I'm not actually sure. Or I could maybe see Theo skipping a season if they star-packed the cast so tightly they decided they didn't have time for him. But season 3 had a similar set up with a bunch of new faces and they still made time to have him come in, help out the with case, sweep Mabel off to his apartment and then peace out, so I'm expecting season 4 will likely be similar in that regard.

Side note: I don't think we'll get a Theo and Will story line this season, because of the aforementioned star-packing. Which is too bad! I'm predicting James Caverly and Ryan Broussard will be in another One Killer Question together where they'll talk about being brothers and I will have to silently scream about how we're deprived of seeing them together in the show. One day!

Anyway, as to whether Theo will get a doppelganger, I'm agnostic. He is an important character in season 1, but I don't know that the in-universe OMITB movie will end up getting made, and thus get to the point of the story where Theo would need to be cast/shown (wow, this is getting too meta, I don't know how to write that sentence.) The script leak I saw indicates that the counter-trio will be following our trio to New York, for research, I'd assume. In real life, many adaptations start pre-production and don't end up getting made, so we won't definitely be seeing that adaptation. It's also possible the plot will diverge significantly from the podcast, like the Brozzos reboot, and he won't even be a character. Though the clothing and method acting would suggest that's probably not the case, at least not at first. Again, I'm agnostic as to where that whole thing will end up.

I'm expecting lots of meta comments on Hollywood and writing. Like aging-up Mabel's character so there isn't such an age gap between her and the guys (because audiences "won't believe" their friendship otherwise? for romantic possibilities?) but still not casting an old women, because misogyny. If they do have a Theo in the movie, I wonder if they'll address disability erasure when it's seen as too difficult or not narratively interesting, or the issue of casting abled actors as disabled characters.

Also, and this is a side note to the side note: Selena was seen filming as Mabel in the courtyard while the wedding set was up, wearing a baby blue sweater and mini skirt similar to the one she worn in 2x07. Mabel only wears blue in (or directly before/after) episodes where she's with Theo. Climatically it's about matching his color scheme/apartment, emotionally it's about getting closer to him. Now, this could be a stretch. I've tried to think of ways it could be stretch, like it could be to match someone else's color scheme, I guess. But the pattern is real. So that might put your mind at ease a bit, too.

The too-long-didn't-read of it is that while I think we had real reasons to worry last season, the writers keep committing to keeping him around and Theo has multiple storylines set up for the future. So I wouldn't worry. As for an OMITB movie counterpart, I have no idea, but wouldn't hold my breath.

[encrucijada]

PÍA RAMBLES #8

you might have seen this post or this wip intro. i'm here to talk about this book because i think it's really cool @teddywriting and i wrote almost 40k words by simply playing dolls with our ocs.

(yes i will be using screencaps of before sunrise, 1995 for any and all subsequent updates regarding this project thank you very much)

what's weird about this book in particular is that, despite maripaz and theo taking up way too much space in my brain, it's also incredibly hard to talk about them?? i know every single detail about them down to what they might order to eat at a mcdonald's, and yet i feel no one outside from teddy and i really knows these characters. their lore is weird and a bit convoluted and explaining it feels like i'm trying to explain the plot of a television show with like 18 seasons of character development you just had to be there to witness to understand even a fraction of it.

but first some basics about the actual book

title: babylon boy (book 1 of the home habitat duology)

genre: literary fiction

category: i say adult because there will be no censoring of topics but in this first installment our protagonists are around eighteen years old. you might consider that ya but i wouldn't

a small summary: having independently run away from home for their own reasons, theo and maripaz meet while homeless on the streets and form an alliance of convenience to survive. while theo vehemently denies the drug addiction he’s nursing, maripaz tries to deal with the way both want and revulsion seem to exist in her at the same time. falling in love is probably the easiest thing they do.

teddy and i are co-authoring, as in we both write the words. they will be primarily working on theo's chapters and i will be primarily working on maripaz's chapters but we'll both be involved in fully crafting this story.

talking about your book is hard when all that happens in it is character work so even whether someone gets sick at one point feels like a spoiler you want people to be surprised by.

we created mari and theo in 2020 on a whim. i can't even remember what prompted it exactly. we wanted a new pair of characters to play with and we decided to make two assholes to bicker and be mean to each other. this iteration saw three reincarnations before we put the characters on the shelf and almost resigned ourselves to them being a miss... if not for one important detail... i really, really believed they should have kissed. this first version of them would eventually be known as the homeless au.

looking back it's Wild thinking about how different mari and theo used to be. we moved onto new aus to play around with, landing on a superhero-type beat that became their new canon for a while. we had fantasy and sci-fi and musicians and hadestown and the raven cycle (that last one did so much for us it's insane). every new thing we tried shaped them more and more until they were unrecognisable from their original versions. one day i really want to go through their threads from start to finish and look at that change in real time.

there was a new thesis to their characters and it was no longer "what if two awful guys with issues were forced together and tried to bite each other's heads off". instead we were looking at two characters that through every new incarnation became more sincere and gentle. they had meta-narrative character development.

(every new au also gave us more characters to populate the world including but not limited to theo's twin sister, maripaz's seven siblings, alex, philip, a whole lot of parental figures, a quirky cast of friends... but i'll talk about them some other time)

then i did it again. in the 2.0 version of the homeless au there was one scene i loved beyond words where an argument between our two protagonists resulted in maripaz punching theo right on the mouth. when she tried to swing a second time he stopped her hand and warned her that if she wanted to hit him he would hit back. they fought and the scene ended. i said to teddy: they should have kissed. we laughed and imagined how homeless au would go now that their characters had changed so much. we started thinking about it more and more until we were moving the pieces of their cinematic universe around to fit this new idea... and suddenly we had plot for a book that would revamp that original homeless au... and a sequel too! (but more on that second one another time)

teddy started a rp thread of what came right after the opening scene of babylon boy, where theo and maripaz would shoplift and he would steal the angel necklace she wore (<- this is important)... and we just kept going... and going. we'd already had a few keys scenes to work towards, one those being that punching scene that started it all, as well as the ending. teddy added two new scenes we began calling the halo scene and the church scene, and we moved something we called the pool scene into this book from another au. we just had to fill in the blanks... fill in the blanks we did.

these right here are the names i gave each individual thread of the roleplay-ification of babylon boy. their purpose is not so much to be chapter titles but to make specific scenes easy to find for future reference. though obviously i had to be a bit artistic about it.

i don't know if babylon boy will have chapter titles, and if they will have some sort of theme going on (usually i like just putting two words together to create some imagery). "angel face" is probably what i would title chapter 1, but i also hesitate on that decision because i think i would like to save angel for later.

these threads are less of a draft and more the skeleton of a draft, that's why i called it a draft 0. its purpose is to give teddy and i direction and reading through them i already know how i want to shift the timeline and how i'd rewrite some of the scenes to make them a lot better, but it did give us a great cause and effect look of things. the way teddy and i approach our roleplay threads is more loose than what i do with @on-the-river-lethe (with whom i'm currently roleplaying draft 1 of our book lupine trail and also a giant hunger games au). fluffy and i write responses between 1k-4k words, they are basically chapters. teddy and i instead do a quick call and response, mostly focused on dialogue, we build on top of each other and neither of us really knows where a thread will go when we start.

there are no actual non-roleplay words written for babylon boy thus far. teddy is in charge of chapter 1 as we open with theo's pov but we are both busy or focused on other things. right now we're enjoying the playing around stage of the process (which i don't see going away even once we start seriously writing, i know for a fact we'll probably do various roleplay-type passes to babylon boy).

you've probably noticed the christian imagery is rampant here. it happened kind of by accident and the already mentioned halo scene is entirely to blame for it. like i said, teddy and i have this very "yes, and," approach to storytelling together where we kinda build on top of what the other puts down. teddy gave me the description of one (1) scene where theo sees a halo of light around maripaz's head and i decided "well, this is now i thing that is here to stay". church scene really brought it all together and there is a scene in book 2 adeptly nicknamed the angel scene that is kind of the culmination of this.

the imagery is almost exclusive to theo's pov as mari is more the subject of the imagery than the one pushing it forward. teddy and i will be doing our most to fill this book with visuals: characters lined with stained glass windows, lights shaped like hearts, signs and graffiti that say meaningful stuff.

babylon boy, as the title suggests, is more theo's book. both he and maripaz have meaningful arcs but theo's is really at the core of it, mari takes centre stage in book 2 (titled gossamer girl). i think i talked about this somewhere before but the titles just kind of... happened. gossamer was relevant for that superhero au and it's just a word i really adore so i wanted to use it on the title. you can't go wrong with alliteration so gossamer girl it is. and because i love when books in a series match i had to do something with boy. like gossamer i adore babylon for some reason, and so we got babylon boy. i wasn't sure about that one because while gossamer girl made sense with the theme, what did "babylon boy" even mean, exactly? teddy came in clutch and analysed the title for me. they connected it to theo's drug addiction and now i can't think of any two titles that are more perfect for this series.

like i said, there are no actual words written for this book so sadly i cannot share any excerpts. but i will share

Festival was very much the result of teddy and i having just watched before sunrise, 1995

we watched before sunrise, 1995 because the mannerisms of the two leads reek of maripaz and theo

"until a miracle happens" became a recurring thing said in the draft and it wrecked me

Our Fears is probably my favourite thread both thematically and visually. followed closely by Church Angels, though that one is mostly visually

The Pool is the longest thread with about 90 responses and all of it is beautiful. i would probably consider it the companion to Our Fears

"mutual pining they're both just idiots"

the closing image is probably my favourite one of the book

the core themes are very much trust, love, and communal help. we've got such an array of npcs who simply... help. i love the human race.

i'll probably do another update before we start properly writing talking about maripaz and theo as characters specifically. a bit of a crash course on who they are, really.

anyway. i'm giving you a golden star if you read all of that ⭐ do ask me or teddy about this story!! we'd be happy to talk about it. or even just about the characters.

cheers, pía

[watchingspnagain]

Rewatching The Real Ghostbusters

Welcome to “In Which Dean Gets Hangry and Clenches His Butt Cheeks, Sam’s a Better Boyfriend Than God, and the Boys Go Meta: A Supernatural Rewatch Blog” with Lor and Mace!

Up today, s5e9: The Real Ghostbusters.

Whatsherbucket (who is now, apparently, sort of Chuck’s girlfriend), calls the boys with an emergency, but when they show up at the hotel, they discover it was a ruse to get them to participate in a LARPing convention based on the Supernatural books. They find themselves surrounded by people dressed up as and pretending to be Sam and Dean, plus people in monster costumes. Chuck’s there, too, of course, although he’s not having a good time (stage fright, plus girlfriend trouble - WHB is still hung up on Sammy). The boys are sort of confused, and very horrified, and pretty darn angry. And then people start dying, for realsies. A couple of the LARPers end up helping them, sort of, to find the ghosts responsible and dispose of them, and the boys come a little bit to terms with the idea of others seeing their lives as enviable. Chuck promises not to write any more books, and WHB turns out to be an unexpected source of quality info: she knows who has The Colt.

Below is a log of our real-time reactions as we watched. Remember that there may be spoilers for any part of SPN’s 15-season run here. Note also that the nature of our conversation is adult and thus it may contain adult language and themes.

 [and we begin:]

Lor:

I hate Chuck but I NEED that jacket

   Mace:

Dean’s eyeroll

   Lor:

I'm with Dean on the eyeroll

  

 Mace:

HAHAHA

   Lor:

I enjoy this ep but Becky makes me want to put a swizzlestick in my brain

   Mace:

HAHAHAHA YEP

   Lor:

OMG Sam's little startle at the scarecrow

   Mace:

omg Sam getting startled by the scarecrow

HAHAHAHA OMG

   Lor:

LOLOLOL

   Mace:

were there actual conventions going on by this time?

Lor:

I thiiiink so?

   Mace:

because HILARIOUS

   Lor:

YES

the boys' reactions. i love it

   Mace:

YESYESYES

   Lor:

omg Dean looking at Sam

   Mace:

HAHAHAHA

   Lor:

"IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE BOOKS DON'T READ EM, FRITZ"

   Mace:

YEAH, FRITZ

“SWEET LORD YES” HAHAHAHA

   Lor:

lol

 “for food and shelter?"

   Mace:

fuck you, Chuck

RIGHT?

   Lor:

I'd feel bad for him if I hadn't seen the rest of the show

   Mace:

EXACTLY

   Lor:

"leave this to the grownups" Dean, honey. come with me, we're gonna get cookies

   Mace:

SNORK

   Lor:

Dean is DONE but he also wouldn't mind the gift card to Sizzler

   Mace:

Dean’s into the sizzler card

HAHAHAHA

   Lor:

LOLOLOLOL

OMG the low voices with the dudes

   Mace:

YES

   Lor:

"how'm I supposed to vanish?"

I love the meta

Mace:

it’s pretty clever

Lor:

this is two meta eps in a row

   Mace:

they’re softening us up for the hard shit on the way

   Lor:

YEP

"but you seem different"

   Mace:

uhhuh

   Lor:

"I don't have time to play Star Wars, guys" look, Mr. Meanie

   Mace:

HA

“you have no idea"

   Lor:

"off limits to nerds" He's funny and it annoys me that he's funny because he's a jerk

   Mace:

HA

he deals with the public. I’m willing to cut him some slack

   Lor:

HA! FAIR

"if it's just me, I look stupid" and then his boyfriend's eyebrow raise

Mace:

YES

these two are adorable

   Lor:

"stay in character" and all he does is lower his voice haaaaahahahahaha

YES

   Mace:

YES

omg their gleeful giggles and smiles

   Lor:

YES

   Mace:

okay ew

   Lor:

right?

I hate scalping stuff

   Mace:

yeah

   Lor:

ew, Becky

Mace:

yup

   Lor:

Dean does NOT like it when people go after kids

   Mace:

he does not

   Lor:

"give me the map, chuckles" "you're the chuckles, chuckles" LOLOLOL

   Mace:

omg Sam really wanted to say “cool it” HAHAHA

HAHAHAHA

   Lor:

YES

they're Rufus and Bobby, omg

   Mace:

YES

Dean. Don’t yuck their yum

   Lor:

yeah

but also: FUCK 327

   Mace:

yeah

Lor:

"i don't think they care because they're FICTIONAL CHARACTERS"

   Mace:

HA

   Lor:

"you wanna win the game, right?" he's so snarky

   Mace:

he really is

   Lor:

someone needs to feed him

   Mace:

he does seem a bit hangry

   Lor:

right?

   Mace:

aw, he paid for their drinks

   Lor:

I never noticed before they repeated the pouring the shot... shot and first it was Dean and then it was the dude playing Dean

YES

   Mace:

cool

“screw you very much"

Lor:

HAHAHA

"i'd say no" OH JUST WAIT, CHUCK

   Mace:

right?!

   Lor:

gratitude and a sandwich

   Mace:

HAHAHA

“sigh” HAHAHAHA

   Lor:

OMG FRITZ read something else

   Mace:

I kind of love Fritz

   Lor:

i do too honestly

   Mace:

welp bye Fritz

   Lor:

poor Fritz

   Mace:

poor Fritz indeed

   Lor:

"how do you feel about angels?" ONE OF THEM SHOULD BE IN MORE EPISODES

   Mace:

HAHAHA YES

   Lor:

"just give her the puppydog thing, okay?"

   Mace:

YAS

aw, these guys are ADORABLE

   Lor:

YES

   Mace:

Dean, don’t call a grown woman sweetheart

   Lor:

omg he called her sweetheart

   Mace:

HAHA

   Lor:

LOLOLOL

there is one man who's allowed in my book, and it's Dean Winchester. everyone else is on notice

because he's DEAN

   Mace:

YEP  

I assume people have made much of the virginity anecdote and Chuck being god?

   Lor:

I... don't know

I know a lot has been made of him later claiming to have had both boyfriends and girlfriends

   Mace:

i don’t remember that! Ha!

   Lor:

omg Barnes and Damien believing in ghosts but not Dean

   Mace:

YES and Dean’s eye crinkle when he smiles at them

   Lor:

YAS

"who wouldn't want that?"

his reaction is so WEIRD

Mace:

“howdy partners” oh Dean. relax your butt cheeks

   Lor:

HAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

   Mace:

omg Sammy don’t make me smack you upside

   Lor:

lol

   Mace:

CROWLEY

   Lor:

omg Sam's face when she says didn't you read the book

   Mace:

CROOOOOOWWWWLLLEEEEEYYYYY

   Lor:

YAAAAAAAAAAAS

   Mace:

it’s about ding dang time

omg that Dean smile SHIT

   Lor:

YES

"it's not jumping the shark if you never come back down" haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaha

   Mace:

SNORK!!!

[raayllum]

I remember starting the show because my friend told me about Callum and Rayla and how cute they were together. But after binge watching all 5 seasons, I just feel like the writers don’t really give a damn about them, in many ways, compared to other couples. But, to be fair, I have lots of issue with the writing. But, to me, the primary idea was to make Callum and Claudia a couple (no, I don’t ship them together), because they actually have a background, development, even chemistry too. So, I don’t understand why the writers changed their minds on this (please, tell me if they ever addressed this issue). I just think that him moving on from a childhood love, like that, out of nowhere to Raylla was again a bit odd and out of nowhere. Because nothing indicated that in the first 2 seasons. Same goes to Rayla too. And, in S5 they have acted more as friends than anything else. It’s just weird. What’s your opinion about this? And again, I don’t ship Callum with Claudia, it’s just my opinion after watching all seasons.

Thank you for sharing your feelings, I definitely have been in fandoms where the Big Ship (canon or fanon, in show or in fandom) have just not been things I could click or with or understand, so you have my sympathies. The crew has gone on record saying that Callum and Rayla being a couple was not originally the plan (we don't know if there were any endgames being considered for either of them as alternatives, but I lean toward no) with Janaya and Ruthari presumably being the main couples. This changed in 2x04 with the lightning flash and moment the two share on the boat, "everyone in the room saw it" (legit quote from showrunner) and they began to write and develop it. It is unknown if they went back to add or shift anything in S1 (we know the crew works on seasons simultaneously) but it wouldn't surprise me given the vibes

I definitely can't promise to change your mind (I'm obviously a big Rayllum shipper and I have been since S1, so I'm clearly coming at it from a different perspective) but I do have some metas that do address what you've brought up, I'm gonna link them below and then do a quick summary in case you understandably don't wanna read all that!

Rayllum and Loneliness (Post S3): a meta about how it is likely (now confirmed in supplementary material) that Rayla grew up pretty friendless and a deeper dive into how Rayla is/was the first person Callum had who was unequivocally his peer and his friend (as Soren bullied and Callum's crush - as well as other things - made him and Claudia have a fair amount of distance.)

Callum and Claudia: You Already Did (Post S3): On what appeal the ship has, why it may not appeal to others, and why I don't think Callum and Claudia were actually that close pre-S1, the various factors why, and why they were doomed to fall apart since 1x02.

How/Why Callum's feelings for Claudia and Rayla Were Overlapping (Post-S3): Exactly what it says on the tin, mostly because he is obsessed with Rayla lowkey in S1 (trying to get her to laugh three times in 1x05, taking a flirty tone with her when they aren't arguing in 1x06, etc) and then outright devoted in S2, trusting her over Claudia in 2x03.

Rebuttals to Rayllum Reservations (Claudia, Pacing, Etc) Post-S3: Pacing, emotional intimacy, platonic development and romantic feelings, etc. Probably the simplest meta and the most on brand for what you're (presumably) looking for, but the other metas I think uh do contribute nicely to explaining why Rayllum is what it is and som of the reasons it appeals to people.

It's also honestly not surprising to me that in S5 they just feel like Friends (hopefully best friends) given that a decent chunk of the Rayllum fandom, myself included, are on the aromantic and/or asexual spectrums, and don't really care if they're Romantic as long as they're Life Partners. (Aspec Rayllum tag here) Callum and Ezran are two of the, if not the, most important people in Rayla's life, and Rayla and Ezran are two of the most important people in Callum's life. To me, romance / devotion / whatever you want to call it intermingling makes sense. One of the things I've loved most about S4-S5 is the fact that whatever they are, they have each other's backs, and they care for and protect each other, no romance required, which hits different since they do both also have romantic feelings for each other. It's just not a pre-requisite for them and a lack of it is never something they'd hold against one another. In other words:

Chemistry is also something that's hard to pin down sometimes - like all shipping preferences are subjective, but evaluations of chemistry tend to be in particular (for example, I don't really think Callum and Claudia have chemistry in that way, but that doesn't mean that they can't or they don't).

That said: platonic Rayllum tag here and foils Rayllum tag here, and I hope whatever parts of the show you do enjoy, well, give you joy.

[soapdispensersalesman]

I finished watching The Cleveland Show last Friday, been wanting to write a review of some sort about it but couldn't really find the words to do so yet.

It's an interesting spin-off, I remembered when it first started airing in the Netherlands around 2010-ish that I was intrigued by the idea of a "black" Family Guy spin-off, not yet realising that Cleveland was being voiced by a white guy at the time until shortly afterwards. I did remember the characters from the show, the slightly uncanny character designs compared to Family Guy, and of course Cleveland's rap! I used to keep an mp4 of that rap on my MDA Vario IV Windows Mobile PDA, playing that on the Windows Media Player app as I fantasized about becoming a musician as I was listening to very niche music from chiptune to underground rap music I came across on YouTube that mostly sounded catchy as my English listening skills weren't up to scratch yet.

I vaguely remembered episodes where the stories just felt "off"

But enough rambling, let's get to the actual review:

(Beware of spoilers)

The first episode was MUCH funnier than I remembered, I was prepared for the absolute worst and poorly aged jokes for a 15 year old show but I honestly thought it was hilarious! The meta joke of the "black show written by white people" sets an interesting tone for what I think the idea of The Cleveland Show was. I genuinely enjoyed the first season of The Cleveland Show, the cutaway gags were neat too, although one might notice that there's just a different vibe in the air, I still struggle to put it into words in a way that makes sense, but the animation style feels different from Family Guy and American Dad. I should mention that beyond looking up the writers, I have not yet looked into the team behind The Cleveland Show (or any of Seth's shows for that matter), so it wouldn't surprise if different animators worked on this.

I've mentioned this before, but The Cleveland Show's animation style resembles that of a Playstation 2 game. It might be the fast-paced "stop and go" animation where characters quickly move from pose A to B when talking ans background characters sometimes being so static that they keep staring at a subject that has since disappeared. There are so many scenes where you could add a loading screen behind and it would feel natural lol I'm on the spectrum btw

Season two was also pretty funny and enjoyable! I do start to notice that the whole "black comedy" part of the show starts to disappear, but the stories surrounding Cleveland's family still make sense to me and show interesting characters dynamics and growth.

Season three is where the show started to lose me a little. Even though this show has little to none necessary need for canon events and continuity just like Family Guy and American Dad, the stories just did not make sense to me strangely enough. What might have been a contributing factor for me is the character designs on The Cleveland Show being far more detailed than any character I've seen in Family Guy and American Dad, most camera compositions being in medium-medium close added to those details as it felt more like a "single camera sitcom" compared to those total shot multi camera sitcoms.

I feel like I was "hate watching" season four to some extent. But the episodes just did not feel interesting to watch. A large majority of season three and four felt like "filler episodes" if that make sense. Not literally but there's that feeling you experience when watching those episodes that feels similar to watching a filler episode of any show with a more canon storyline.

I can see why the show got cancelled because you could feel the decline, I do wonder what a "finale" would've looked like. In any scenario, the family would probably return to Quahog either way but it would be nice to give the characters some closure.

Here's a list of other thoughts as the formatting of this pose is already messy enough:

Love the guest stars brought on this show, Ye's character Kenny West still gotta be my favourite character. Ye's voice acting sounds a bit monotonous as of he's either reading the script out loud or having a difficult time saying his lines with the time codes. I'd kinda love for his character to make a return to Family Guy or American Dad.

Gus is another character I love and HOLY MOLY you're telling me that David Lynch voiced Gus?! That discovery made me love Gus' character even more!

The hurricane episode missed the mark for me! The family trying to navigate around Junior being an atheist has such potential to make for a powerful storyline, but sadly misses the mark so much! The family does not find common ground with Junior and then completely ruins it when Cleveland sneezes and Junior says "god bless you!"

Choni's introduction to the show feels so unfortunate. They painted her so cocky and it made it difficult for me to sympathize with her during her first episode. it's sad because her character in general is pretty lovely.

Cleveland Junior being a spy who got rid of the original Junior is so funny to me and I choose to believe that this is (still) canon in Family Guy

I disliked the international episode with a passion, but the German segment parodied a certain "Persona 2 character" that acquainted me about info surrounding the writers that suddenly made me aware why so many characters were... like the writers (Forgive me for the vague wording for I'm not informed enough but have zero issues with these characters, it was just a bit notable, especially as they kinda took the place of what I feel like initially was supposed to be black characters)

I watched multiple reviews about the show on YouTube to see if they experienced similar things I did and could put them into words, I agree with how all of them point out the bond in Cleveland's family and how everyone learns to get along, make mistakes, and learn/grow from them!

Like most other fans, I wish that Family Guy involved Cleveland's family more often! Seeing Rallo and Roberta just standing in the background despite probably being the strongest two characters back in The Cleveland Show is such a shame to seeing them reduced to a "Boondocks ripoff" punchline.

Donna's ex husband getting together with her mom makes me realize that Donna is now technically canonically also the older sister of Roberta and Rallo.

That's pretty much all, might add more thoughts later.

[chenfordswopez]

Thinking of how to write a self-destructive Leia.

I'm planning on writing a dark!Leia fic taking place in between season 1 and 2.

Background:

Leia, at her worst, tends to let other people get into her and question almost everything. And just in general, letting her insecurities get the best of her.

In Summer Storm, Leia is confident in her relationship with Jay and happy about what they have, but it's after a conversation with Nikki that she starts to spiral. She ends up putting her hands back when she kisses Jay.

In Achy Breaky Heart, Leia is happy with Jay at first and just everything, but when she finds out he has a dog, she begins to panic. Right after, she asks Jay about the dogs' names, breeds, personalities. And it only gets worse when she finds out that Jay has a sister, and she starts to wonder what is even means for her relationship.

The way a self destructive!Leia could be written:

Like Donna, Leia dyes her hair, Not blonde, but something more colorful like pink, purple, or blue.

Also like Donna, Leia would start smoking, purposely failing assignments and tests, cutting classes to get her parents' attention (like Donna did when Bob and Midge are fighting)

If she's single, Leia might start hooking up with someone. Not like several people, and she wouldn't go all the way. At best, she'd go third base.

Like Eric, Leia would start drinking more as a way to numb the pain. She might meet a buddy who seems to want to listen, but really just appeals to her vulnerabilities to get what they want.

Also like Eric, Leia would keep her guard up and pretend things are fine. At breakfast or any family gathering, she'd act like she's doing fine and that she has it all together, but soon the truth will slowly unveil.

I used @einsteinsugly's Donna meta & @randomwriter23's Eric meta to help with this!

[norsecoyote]

I do not as a rule read a lot of fanfic. This is partly because I don't get much time to read, period, and partly because I still have a bit of a cringe reaction to the whole concept, but also because I will get turned off a story quickly if the author gets something wrong either about a character (which I gather is common) or about the broader themes or point of the original story.

This is by way of saying that, now that I've thoroughly outed myself as an unironic fan of French children's animated superhero show Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug and Chat Noir, I want to do what I believe is the next required step on tumblr.com: complain about something the fandom gets wrong.

Fair warning: this is not a meta-post about fandom or fanfic generally, this is 100% me, a nominal adult, bitching about People Being Wrong About Miraculous On The Internet. You stand at the Cringe Event Horizon; read on at your own risk.

So: the central interpersonal tension that powers the show is the "love rectangle" between the leads, where Marinette loves Adrien and Chat Noir loves Ladybug but neither knows the other's secret identity. The obvious solution is absurdly simple: reveal their identities and collapse the quantum superposition of crushes.

A ton of fanfic about the show does exactly that: contrive some scenario where they accidentally discover who each other are, they kiss, they live happily ever after (plus or minus one maniacally obsessed supervillain). And I get why, I think -- the show absolutely looks like it's going to keep this will they/won't they tension going forever, since it's one of its two central narrative motors, and a whole ton of early episodes play with one of the two trying to get closer to the other, failing, and returning exactly to the status quo. Given that, it makes sense why fans would want to just write the goddamn resolution already; it isn't until S3 that the two start making any real progress towards being together.

But. The problem, on many levels, is that the show's writers are smarter than that. Like on the very basic one, the show makes clear from very early on that the old master who gave the heroes their powers explicitly forbade them from revealing their identities, because doing so would let Hawk Moth find and defeat them. And this isn't like an arbitrary concern: Hawk Moth's whole deal is corrupting random people and getting them to work for him, so if he ever happened to even accidentally akumatize someone who knows their identities, that's more or less the whole ballgame. If you're writing a story where Ladybug and Chat Noir learn who each other are but they haven't defeated Hawk Moth yet -- and there are a bunch of these -- you have missed something rather crucial about why they couldn't just do that already.

(The first half of S5 -- which to be fair only came out a year ago -- does a very clever thing where it systematically explores basically every possible workaround to this issue, considering every new power or possibility opened up by events from across the previous four seasons, and methodically rejects each one by showing how it wouldn't solve the actual central problem. I bring this up not to throw shade on any fanfic authors, most of whom were writing before S5 released, but to credit (again) the show's writers for the depth of their understanding of what makes the show tick.)

More fundamentally -- and this is an insight very much stolen from that CJ the X video -- on a character growth/emotional level, Marinette and Adrian aren't ready to be in a relationship yet. Like, sure, they will be perfect for each other, but (at least for most of the series to date) they aren't yet. Marinette starts out with an extremely adolescent crush on a literal fashion model, and Adrien at first is clearly much more in love with his unexpected new freedom as Chat Noir than anything specific about his new partner. They are, to put as blunt a point on it as the show itself repeatedly does, kids.

And, critically, the show understands that they both need to learn to accept themselves first. From an adult perspective it's just duh that you can't have a mature romantic relationship without a solid sense of self (and self-confidence), but that's not remotely obvious to kids at the age of the show's target audience and it's genuinely refreshing to see it acknowledge and reflect that obstacle. One of the few active benefits of the show's extremely episodic pacing is that the writers have time to show both protagonists' slow but genuine character growth, Marinette building up her confidence in her own abilities and decisions and Adrien forging an identity separate from his father's business asset, until when they finally start building something real together in the fifth season it feels genuinely earned.

This emotional arc, in other words, is baked into the show's structure from the very beginning. Fanfic that tries to shortcut this process has, again, fundamentally failed to understand the characters it's nominally telling a story about. Like, I get wanting to experience the emotional high of seeing your favorite characters get their happy ending, but -- the fact that they can't just get that is kind of central to their entire characterization! Are you even writing about the same characters at that point?

[lavenderrdaughter]

I've recently fallen down the Nancy/Marjan rabbit hole, which I never even considered before the amazing fics you and others have started writing and sharing, so thank you!

But as season 5 gets closer and closer I'm starting to get a little nervous. I've shipped noncanon ships before, but this is one that I'm now so invested in and so fully behind that I'm worried how I'll feel when I have to crash back to reality and they're very much not together in the show.

So I wanted to ask, if you'd be willing to share your thoughts: do you think there's any chance of Nancy and Marjan becoming canon? I really need to know if my hopes are valid or if I need to start preparing myself for disappointment!

hi anon!

thank you, im glad you like my stories as well as some of the lovely fics others have written!

i can understand the anxiety and uncertainty with a new season.

when discussing canon sapphic ships on cable tv, there's some murky water there. canon sapphic ships are certainly one of the lowest rates of representation we see. there are certainly some amazing ones out there, and I don't say this to concern you or bring anyone down. it does give me hope that on the original 911, we do have a canon lesbian relationship for the entirety of the show, so it wouldn't be unrealistic to expect a canon sapphic relationship on Lone Star.

I would absolutely love to see them together on screen, and I certainly think it is possible, and I hope the writers do give it to us. With the rumors of season 5 being the end and being a short season, that does make it seem less likely. (look to this post on ways to interact and boost numbers in hopes of a renewal)

that being said. I think a lot needs to happen before they could become canon.

first of all, im still holding out for a nancy and mateo breakup in season 5, even without a nancymarjan canon arc. I really don't like them together and he doesn't treat her well in my opinion.

then, some type of sexuality realization from marjan. right now, she shows the nonverbal signs of a closeted lesbian to me. (I head canon her as a demisexual lesbian, but don't know how lone star writers would do with an asexuality spectrum storyline). her and joe aren't really in a relationship in canon, so we don't have that to write out, but her sexuality is complex to me, especially with her faith, it could get complicated.

with all that said, I think it's very possible, and what we have in canon, writers can certainly build on that.

that being said, whether or not they go canon, we always have fanfiction, fan art, fan meta, and fandom friendship over these ships we love and that can go long past when shows go on.

you are certainly always welcome to come into my asks or dms and scream about them, or talk about it whenever you want, I adore talking about them with others who also love them. or if discord is your thing, we do have a nancymarjan discord server that is small but always welcome to new members.

if you're still here, thank you for listening to me ramble!

[genderqueerpond]

ok so heres a few thoughts

in reverse order. because I'm thinking backwards after finishing.

I REALLY THOUGHT THEY WERE ABOUT TO GET HIT BY A BUS RIGHT AT THE END THERE

the girl in the dance scene. in the yellow hat and lavender tights. Susan Foreman. To Me. this is based on absolutely nothing but vibes and my faceblind ass thinking they look alike, but I think it would be so fucking cool if she was. therefore since it harms nothing and there's no one to tell me otherwise, I have decided to incorporate this into my worldview forevermore <3

just when I said there was nothing dr who could do that I wouldn't forgive, they say something that could almost be taken as teasing a christianity-real worldbuilding, probably the one thing I couldn't forgive. had more than enough of that already. however we won't be entertaining this possibility any further. it was very vague, and they're clearly not doing that, I won't allow it.

I thought it would be ruby who'd get the chord right when the doctor failed. literally the song that's embedded in her subconscious probably **IS** that song? still think that would have been best but I guess I'll take the beatles

idk how I feel about doing a drag queen villain. i know I know and they're absolutely WONDERFUL but I just don't know. torn about this.

alright so like... we've skipped an entire season. the dynamic between ruby and the doctor is so much more familiar by episode 2, "you never run away"/"you always know what to do", and it's June or July but hard to keep track, meaning she's been traveling with the doctor while keeping in touch with her friends and family by phone for approximately six months now

ruby in the most 60's fit anyone from 2024 could possibly wear: "we're in the 60's, but what about my clothes?!"

I KNEW they were about to start playing the dw theme on piano and segue into the real thing and I still screamed when it happened. absolutely phenomenal

------

crying because you almost killed your monster baby..... good stuff. queer subtext

15 shaping up on track to be extremely Inconsistent and Hypocritical about killing monsters/villains or saving them. some may see this as bad characterization but really it's very The Doctor of him. always has been governed by whims on this

I really believe the entirety of Space Babies was manifested by Ruby's subconscious.

as in, none of that existed until she arrived, and then it did. because of her. it came out of her mind, beginning with the butterfly effect, to the orphan babies who never grew up. it all says a lot of compelling things about her as a person. she's secretly terrified of getting things wrong, the abandoned child part of her still feels much younger than she is.

oh boy this character is so new and I'm already writing meta for her this is great. also her limitless compassion is a great strength. top tier companion material, no wonder the doctor wanted her.

"the human race we survived." --- coming from the present day, this really is a time when that feels surprising huh. yeah

the way fifteen says "Gone!" to Ruby's question about Gallifrey. The tone of voice fucking killed me. "and I am so glad to be alive" --- yeah but its also like he's saying, meet me on this level, we are happy, we are doing happiness. do not challenge this. reminds me of eleven. by which I mean hoo boy

also I love him. easily on track to be my second favorite doctor in a few more episodes.

[shinygoku]

thoughts on cgi episodes of ttte? I'm curious to hear whatever praises or criticisms you have for that era of the series

Apologies for the delay, I started this but felt it was too Stream-of-Consciousness to be worth publishing. After a virtual pair of scissors it's much better but it's not one of my best metas. Still, I sure have Thoughts! So if you happen upon this month late answer, enjoy~

I think, much like the model series, it's quite the mixed bag... but even at its best None of the CGI episodes or specials reach the early pinnacle set by Seasons 1 and 2.

I'm famously[?] s3 Critical but I'm much more likely to wanna watch one'a the episodes where David Mitton was director than anything CGI (...depending on the episode lmao, some are nuclear waste as early as 3 and a lot in 6 lmaooo) -- that's in part due to my immense fondness and respect for the scale models and practical effects.

This ain't me ragging on CGI, but it is me saying that for Thomas the live action Supermarionation style works best for it. The CGI itself allows for things that wouldn't be possible [or finacially sensible], and that's good! But I feel like it became a crutch for the series to continue spinning wheels without covering new track, y'see?

Like, the Engines as models are still limited in some of the same ways irl Steam Locos are - they have to have track to run on, there's an upper limit for the rakes they pull, you can't bash them into walls without heavy damage, things like that. This also helped inform the post-Awdry stories they ran, it's the kind of limitation that makes writing more robust.

This doesn't make it immune to running out of ideas, of course, but it's a reliable guideline. The model series very much running out of plots is why I don't watch any post season 7!

With CGI there's an "all bets are off" aspect where they could use it for more complex settings, scenarios and characters. But a rot still started to creep in and hit the nadir with BWBA, where they just do whatever a weird ass mandate insists upon.

There's also the moving faces debate, I suppose. CGI letting them lip sync and giving them individual voices was another big game changer. But was it needed? The books lend themselves so well to the Narrator style (when it's someone like Ringo, even better hahaha), but the more distinct voices there are, the more room there is for something to sound ...off.

So let's sum up some CGI pros:

Increased possibility of complex designs, mechanisms and scenery

Episodes should be easier to produce and more effort could go into other areas

If lucky, the voice acting will be good

And some cons:

The majority of the CGI is still pretty daggy looking, and bad CGI ages it much more than seeing the edge of a physical set

The episodes either don't do much interesting with the freedom, or go too far and do stupid shit like an action movie bridge jump or the whole engine rocking back and forth like a kiddie ride when they talk

The voice acting isn't well suited to the stories... or it ain't good at all!

I mean it genuinely when I say not only is 2D Animation better for a less-realistic version of Thomas, but AEG actually going as balls to the wall is an improvement over the dying thrashes of BWBA. The CGI shoulda held itself to more realism, but didn't, but at least Very Cartoony Trains having extendable spider limbs is more consistant with itself.

...In summation, I am Not A Fan of CGI Thomas. Which is why I limit my input of CGI eps, honestly! I ain't saying everything about it sucks, but the collective whole of it isn't good enough to keep me watching.

[happygo-writing]

words of kindness

I've been wanting to make a post all day but haven't had the chance because I just got home from spending time with friends. I've tried to think of what to say, of what message I wanted to put out there after all that's happened this week and the past couple of months but it can be hard to find the words. So I'm still a bit at a lost of what to say, but I'm going to try and we'll see what comes out.

I truly appreciate the Lone Star fandom. When I came into it, at first I just lurked in the shadows because I was coming off a truly horrific fandom experience that I don't wish for anyone to go through and I was terrified to engage in the fandom. I stayed in my little corner, with a blog under a different name, and just watched and tried to figure out if I wanted to dip my toes in. When season 3 started I live-blogged a little bit but it was well it was a couple of episodes into season 3 before I made my url what it is today and fully stepped into the Lone Star fandom and started to write fics for it. It was truly a better experience than I've ever had in fandom. Everyone was so nice and supportive and encouraging. I still think there are a lot of nice and encouraging people in the fandom, the negative voices have just been louder lately. And I'm not talking about negative opinions or thoughts, but people who are going out of their way to attack people who create content for this fandom.

To the Lone Star fandom as a whole: Thank you everyone who blesses us each day with a new creation, whether it be gif sets, art, fan fiction, meta posts whatever it is that you make, thank you. You are the reason why fandoms thrive the way they do. Fandoms are nothing without fandom creations that keep fans engaged during the off-seasons and time between episodes. Thank you for blessing us with your talents, for being vulnerable and for sharing your creations with us. I know how hard it can be to pour yourself into something and sharing it for the internet to see. It can be so daunting and it's amazing that so many of you do it. Thank you for creating in your free time. I hope you know that people do value you and value the time that you put into the things that you posts.

And thank you to those who might not create things but leave comments and likes on the things that people create. Thank you for being cheerleaders and giving motivation to those who might struggle with it at times. I know personally that I wouldn't be able to do or post half of what I do. You're appreciated so so so much.

thank you to everyone who follows me, talks to me, and engages in my content in any way, know that I appreciate each and every one of you and I am so glad that I get to be in this fandom with all of you. I love you all, my DMs are always open and I am always more than happy to chat!