#I think mxtx did this for few reasons

[add1ctedt0you]

#very interesting that wei wuxian's first reaction is fear#fear (wwx) anger/denial (jiang cheng) and then just... a blank#a blank where jiang yanli can't express herself#this is a really good blank for fiction#there's just the impulse to see wwx which she can't describe or explain#so the question becomes: what does this impulse mean in the face of jzx's death and jl's birth?#what does it mean for her to try to satisfy that impulse and then not be able to articulate herself? to ask whatever she needs to ask?#she can't even identify that need. is it for information? for comfort? for safety?#what does it mean that she herself doesn't know?#jiang yanli#wei wuxian#jiang cheng#yunmeng trio#mdzs novel reference#mdzs + @least-carpet

okay, still thinking about this.

First of all, I thinks that jc's reaction can be interpretated as much as denial as much as damage control: ''jiejie, it's fine, stay calm. If you freaks out, things will degenerate".

But jyl's reaction is... wow. Because yes, what does that mean? She wants to see wwx, but she can't articulate her feelings. And honestly, it's realistic! How can you cope in few months (??) with the knowledge that your brother has killed your husband, your child's father?

Jiang Yanli's death

[starry-bi-sky]

mmmmmm read a disciple shen yuan/shizun luo binghe fanfic about two days ago where the first chapter was the Immortal Conference arc, and SQQ was the one who had to be pushed into the abyss (he was still the villain) except Luo Binghe was refusing and was like, lowkey losing his mind about SQQ being so close to the edge. SQQ ended up having to be the one to fall in himself because of the system's punishment system. The rest of the fic is leading up to that moment. But like, MMM i've been obsessively thinking about that first chapter for DAYS ever since.

now i've been in svsss for a grand total of *checks watch* a week. but god obsessed with that. I want to write/read a fic where disciple SQQ goes a little nuts down there. Like keep all of the things that make SQQ, SQQ, but just. Throw in a little bit more trauma in there. A little bit of a mental break. Let him go a little nuts as a treat. Just a tad unhinged. I wanna see him go, just a little, "god fuck it, i've tried so hard to change this shitty story's outcome and it feels like everything i've done has been for nothing. I'm going to die in this world no matter what I do, I've been doomed from the start, so might as well die the way I want to." and he just, breaks a little! Under all the stress.

He still retains the traits that makes shen yuan, shen yuan, like his overwhelming kindness. But he's just! yk. A little less patient. Paranoid. Jumpy. Colder. A little more aloof and closed off. A little more Shen Jiu. He's no asshole child abuser, but he was a Number One Hater in his past life and he's leaning into that old habit a little more now.

(On a totally coincidental not-at-all related note, there's not enough SJ-and-SY-are-the-same-people fics out there that i've found. This is totally unrelated...)

The Endless Abyss turns the mind into an over-sharpened blade, and SQQ is both fascinated and perhaps a little excited to explore a place that doesn't have a lot of info on it in the mortal realm, but still terrified out of his mind. And he's no Luo Binghe, he doesn't have the sheer brute strength and power to just bulldoze his way through, so he has to be a lot more sneaky and cunning if he wants to survive.

The fic itself role-swapped LBH and SQQ so that SQQ was the half-demon (which lowkey fucks) and LBH the human, but I'm equally-if-not-more obsessed with the idea that LBH remains the half-heavenly demon and SQQ the human. If only because I keep thinking about SQQ befriending some demons (particularly and specifically a group of succubi) and they grow very attached to this Human Cultivator so through magic plot stuff they create some kind of seal/illusion/talisman that makes SQQ appear as a demon because a human cultivator in the endless abyss may as well be the equivalent of putting a giant neon target on your back.

And iirc Shen Jiu was taught demonic cultivation by that one guy(?? i've only been here a week so im not caught up in ALL of the lore yet) so that could totally happen here.

(On the other end of the realms, poor Shizun Luo Binghe is just. losing his fucking mind over losing his most precious and beloved disciple. About .5 seconds from burning down the peaks himself. somebody sedate him.)

The Endless Abyss sucks and SQQ is having a really terrible time and can feel himself going lowkey mad, but also holy shit look at all this WORLD-BUILDING. look at all this flora and fauna, and oh if he had the equipment for it he'd be writing all of this down. ALL OF IT. He was kinda-sorta-already planning on never leaving the Abyss as some sort of fucked up self-exile and self-preservation thing, but now he might? actually just?? never leave if he can help it, like he lowkey likes it down here.

anyways the next time anyone ever sees SQQ again he's got hair so long its almost touching the ground and he's either in rags and half-feral or he's been completely dolled up by his adoptive succubi sisters and still about three seconds from biting anyone who tries to touch him. (he's also lowkey trying to book it back down to the abyss even if he has desperately missed all of his friends and shizun)

[joys-of-everyday]

Unrefined thoughts on how MXTX creates complexity in her characters:

Mirror Mirror

Bingge and Bingmei are mirror images of one another, both from the same starting points, but who go onto have vastly different walks of life. While these are complex characters in their own right, the point here is less about the complexity of each of them individually, but how they demonstrate that our environment can influence who we are. It is, in fact, pretty rare to walk into your own clone from a parallel universe (and these are the only two MXTX characters who are true mirrors in this way), but the Bing-twins existence leads naturally to the question: had circumstances been different, would the other characters have turned out differently?

The Reformed, the Fallen

People change. A brave and righteous crown prince can become a drunk vagabond who beats people for criticising their martial skills, and can change again to a humble scrap collector who helps those in need. Another crown prince who gives their all to save their people can become twisted by hatred and despair. Life takes many turns, at unexpected places. Can you judge an entirety of a person by where they are now, when it is hard to say where they have been, or where they are yet to go?

Circumstance

Something that strikes me about TGCF is how it acknowledges how arbitrary human behaviour sometimes is. The farmer who tripped over Xie Lian as he lay in the street was wet and tired, so cussed him. But once he cooled down, he came back and apologised, forever changing Xie Lian’s life. We are subject to making pretty irrational choices when we are angry for whatever reason (or just hungry), and sometimes cruel actions are not from a cruel person. Equally, sometimes a kind action is not from a kind person. Qi Rong didn’t need to save Guzi, and I suspect Jin Guangyao’s acts of kindness were not all self-motivated. Actions don’t always fit into a narrative of a good person and a bad person, because we contain both good elements and bad elements, and we act in different ways in different situations.

Perspective

People are seen by different people in different ways. Wei Wuxian is an extreme example – a hero to many, a villain to many more. I don’t think the way you are seen should at all dictate whether you are good or bad. Many of those who criticised Wei Wuxian did not have the full perspective, or were just plain wrong, and he was unfairly vilified. Actually, this isn’t really about Wei Wuxian’s complexity as a character at all – what I want to highlight here, is that when we see other people as a villain or a hero, we may not have the full picture. There are many characters who appear who we get maybe a few paragraphs of backstory, and we make judgements about them. Do we really understand their circumstances? Is the narrator even reliable? (Shen Jiu, excluding the extras, comes to mind)

[nyerus]

Overview of TGCF Versions

Due to recent(ish) events, I thought it would be good to make another post cataloguing all the different "versions" of TGCF, for newcomers and old fans alike! I'll also be going over some FAQs that I've seen or been asked so this post can serve as a decent info thread.

For simplicity's sake, first think of there being two "main" version of TGCF:

The Original -- what all the translations are based on, as well as the manhua and donghua.

The Revised -- what was released in print last year in China (only), and what was recently updated on JJWXC. The audio drama is adapting this

The original webnovel was itself not "censored." By that I mean, it contained everything MXTX originally wrote including kisses, swearing, innuendo, etc. MXTX did self-censor to avoid Real Censorship (hence the lack of NSFW scenes we may have gotten like in her previous novels), but that's a whole different thing. For all intents and purposes, consider the original version and (most of) its translations as being uncensored.

The revised version was first publicly released as a print novel in China. As such, it was actually censored. While "Hualian" is still there, and things are alluded to, it's a lot more vague. Kisses and a lot of other things were cut, including certain dialogue tidbits that perhaps were deemed a bit too obvious. (Plus a lot of Feng Xin and Qi Rong's cursing was removed lmao.)

HOWEVER, shortly after the print release, the audio drama started adapting the uncensored revised version. So we all knew there was an uncensored revised version somewhere in existence. It wasn't until the end of last month that we actually saw it! TGCF was available again on JJWXC after years of being "temporarily locked" to comply with regulations. (Though it was possible it was locked for other reasons. We will never fully know!) Not only was it finally unlocked, but it was actually updated to the uncensored revised version!

F.A.Q.s

1.) Why did MXTX make a revised version anyway? MXTX has mentioned before that she was not entirely satisfied with the original version of TGCF. Because she wrote and released each chapter in a serialized manner, with frequent (possibly daily?) updates, it doesn't surprise me that it didn't turn out exactly how she wanted. Now that she has the opportunity to sit down with it and go over everything on her own time, she's able to get it closer to what she wanted. In short: she's just really passionate about this story!

2.) Is there and English translation, or will there be? What about other languages? Officially, not yet. We don't know if there ever will be, as MXTX would have to re-negotiate the rights with publishers for translations, and at this time, we don't know if that'll happen. Unofficially, there are a few options: a. ClearNoodle has done some fan-translations you should check out here! b. By purchasing the webnovel on JJWXC now, you can MTL (machine translate) the novel. If you've seen screenshots in English floating around that aren't part of the fan-translations above, this is probably the source.

3.) What is JJWXC and how do I use it/purchase TGCF on it? JJWXC is the webnovel publishing site where TGCF was originally released. It hosts a giant array of C-novels, including most other danmei that you may have heard about. SV and MDZS were indeed also on JJWXC, but are currently (still) locked. To purchase TGCF (or any other novel) on JJWXC, cangji.net has an excellent guide and list of other helpful links to get you all set up. Please do check it out! Additionally, buying on JJWXC seems to be the most direct way to support authors. You can also throw bonus tips at them!

4.) How much has really changed in the revised version? A fair bit. Mostly, the changes are to do with plot structure, minor characters, overall flow, and so on. It's still essentially the same story, but in a way that feels fresh. Hualian in particular have exactly the same dynamic as before. MXTX added extra scenes between them, including very sweet and tender domestic stuff haha! There's also a few new lines of spicier dialogue to go along with some of the scenes that already existed in the original.

5.) So what is considered canonical? Both, in a way. MXTX has stated that she's happy if fans can enjoy both at once, and that we're free to pick-and-choose as we wish. Personally, while there are many things I prefer from the original, the revised version is something closer to MXTX's true vision for the novel. So I feel that holds a little bit of weight there, too.

6.) Will the manhua/donghua be adapting any of the newly revised content? So far that seems unlikely. The revised version facelifts a lot from the early parts of the story, which is stuff these adaptations have already covered. It would be hard to change things down the line now. At most they could add some of the extra dialogue or such, but we'll see if that's the case. For now, we simply don't know and shouldn't count on it. If you'd still like an adaptation of the revised, please absolutely check out the audio drama! It's easily become my personal fave adaptation of the story, and is made by a small but very passionate team who are close to MXTX. Thus, it's quite faithful and does the source material such justice! <3

[atqh16]

I don’t get the Lan Zhan hate some people have? I don’t get some people calling him a cunt or bastard (derogatory)? Second to maybe Wen Ning, Lan Zhan deserves being hated the least. He is a flawed character. He made tons of mistakes. But so much of his positive attributes and actions completely outweigh all of that. Like, one of the most unique things about Lan Zhan is that despite the pain of losing Wei Ying and despite the punishment he received for it he did not dwell on resentment. He had a right to but he didn’t. Instead he worked on bettering himself. He worked on bettering his sect. There was a post that talked about how Jingyis existence and bright, loud character is a far reach from what most Lans are usually expected to be. But the fact that he’s not really scolded for being who he is and instead the narrative even frames him as being in the right really shows how much the Lan sect had changed over the years and it’s pretty clear that Lan Zhan is responsible for it. Cause Qiren liked the status quo and Lan Xichen was satisfied with it and didn’t really see an issue so they wouldn’t have a reason to create any change.

And for a sect that’s famous and known for its rigidity that is a significant feat. Then you have the fact that in the 13 years Wei Ying was dead Lan Zhan had created a reputation of being someone you could rely on for help and aid without needing compensation like other sects. In a time where cultivating has become a borderline business, a status quo that is openly accepted, Lan Zhan actively rejects the notion which is again a far cry from who he was before. Someone who couldn’t find it in himself to seperate from the majority. He was always kind and empathetic but there was still that part of him that paid too much importance on what people would think. Any action he took that was a deviation from the norm like showing Mian Mian the respect she deserved for standing up to her sect was done in such a way that it could be easily missed and brushed off.

The Lan Zhan we got after the time skip is so VERY different than the Lan Zhan we saw before. The fact that he so easily openly sided with Wei Ying against the other sects, something he didn’t do before until it was too late, wasn’t just an action made out of love and a desire to avoid regret. It’s a culmination of all the character development he’s gone through throughout the story.

I guess if you dislike him because of his pre time skip version it’s understandable but it would also be missing the point. Or maybe if you’re a Jiang Cheng fan you’d dislike Lan Zhan for having beef with him but like, his anger is very justified? Saying that Jiang Cheng played a part (minor or otherwise) in Wei Yings inevitable demise isn’t a hot take. The narrative openly states it and it’s not refuted. Lan Zhan being angry at Jiang Cheng over that truth is very understandable and it’s not like he rids himself of any blame either. Even better despite having that beef Lan Zhan doesn’t act on it. A few passive aggressive jabs here and there ( he’s only human after all) but he doesn’t let himself turn into an outright asshole the way Jiang Cheng did. He doesn’t take his anger out on Lan Sizhui the way Jiang Cheng verbally shits on Jin Ling constantly. Mxtx really likes to write contrast and comparisons and the one between Jiang Cheng and Lan Zhan (in terms of how they dealt with their grief) is a pretty obvious one. Of course it’s not a 1 to 1 mirror of each other but that doesn’t make the comparison completely moot.

[fullmetalpotterhead]

I think there is a cruelty in expecting your idea of a happy ending is the one a person wants for themself and I think it’s an idea we see within tgcf AND within the fandom treatment of the characters.

(Warning below cut for novel spoilers and also the fact some of you may get defensive. Absolutely enjoy fandom the way you want I just think narratively and analytically it feels hollow).

FX and MQ struggle with who XL has become because they believe they understand who he is supposed to be. They believe they know best the happy ending he is supposed to want. Their idea of a happy ending for him does not include scrap collecting or ghost husbands. It does not include roaming around the mortal realm. And so it is hard for them to fully face who XL is and the fact he can be happy in a way that is different from this preplanned scenario for him. (One that admittedly a younger him would agree with! Their belief is well founded, it’s just misguided.)

And mostly, I see fans understand this. That XL’s happy ending is the soft epilogue of a quiet life not caring much about heaven or important events but doing what he wants to spread kindness and enjoy love. But sometimes still I see fans who talk about how perfect he’d be as the new heavenly emperor and I wonder “don’t you get it? Don’t you see that he doesn’t want that?” The responsibility of that. The burden of managing heaven like that. It’s not what XL has ever really striven for even when he was more “ambitious”. He’s the kind who likes to go down and get his hands on things, not sit back and take this mantle of ultimate authority that ties him up in buerocratic red tape. He’s never wanted to manage the gods, that’s not the kind of power he sits happiest in. He could be happy in spite of being given such a role, but when I see fans give him this they pose it like a gift. Like an honor. It is neither of those things to a man who genuinely does not even care anymore about being seen as a god by anyone but his husband.

And then I see Xuan Ji. A ghost who lingers in obsessive, crazed love-hatred. And when she fades, it is because she has finally let go of her attachment to PM. She’s at peace. She can rest. Her reason for lingering isn’t like HC’s, it was never a happy thing. She lingered in traditional ghostly fashion as a sick twist against nature and when at last she was settled she could finally move on to let her soul continue to her next life instead of being trapped within her crazed grief. So it’s important she fades. It’s important she finally gives up and rests. To linger any longer isn’t her happy ending. To let go is to move forward for her. It’s not that her happy ending was dying— she was already long dead. All that remained was unwell. It’s not the same as killing her off, she’s not human. MXTX is giving her a chance at rebirth by letting her fade.

The one I see the most is SQX. I see many fans want SQX to ascend again. Many fans write and talk as if in a few years SQX could ascend on their own merit and return to heaven with grace and that would be their glorious happy end. But such an end… it really feels against the spirit of SQX’s own wishes. SQX lives as a beggar with other beggars in repetenance for what his brother did. He finds new friends and new joy among his fellow beggars. He is resolved and ready to eventually die a mortal death. His brother, his closest family, is now gone and he himself has lived centuries of a very good life. Lived far beyond the years of the average happy mortal. (SWD, in trying to bait HX points it out: they’ve already won. They lived worshipped and comfortable for centuries as gods.)

To ascend again is, for one, not something SQX was ever capable of himself which is part of the point, but second of all… to what end would he ascend for? To what purpose would he desire immortality? His family is gone. His worldview is drastically changed by what he’s gone through. Could he happily return to a frivolous life in heaven? Should he go through the gossip that would no doubt follow him in heaven regarding the circumstances of his first ascension and fall forever? Why? What does heaven and immortality give him that he is lacking in his end now? It doesn’t offer any more family or stability than he’s already found for himself. He’s carved out his happy ending with a family of beggars and he’ll carry the weight of what his brother did and one day he’ll die a mortal death. As we all will. That’s not a bad thing. That’s not an unhappy ending.

XL’s happy ending was not found in heaven, but heaven will forever be part of his reality. Many fans seem to understand this. So I don’t understand why that logic doesn’t follow SQX. To return to heaven doesn’t feel like properly facing his character arc to me. It feels like the same thing FX is trying to do in believing XL’s happiest ending is fixed to the picture perfect ideal. Happy endings are personal things that should suit the one who earned them. And this is the one SQX has crafted. I think he’s done a rather beautiful job.

[sonik-kun]

Reminder that WWX did use a homophobic slur (cutsleeve) before he found out he was, in fact, a "cutsleeve" himself.

I'd also argue that him taking advantage of MXY's body and the rumours associated with him by acting as a "stereotypical gay" to get out of situations was a form of homophobia in itself.

He assumed this was how crazy, gay people act - like sexual deviants. He used that stereotype on top of the rumours about MXY just to get out of sticky situations and avoid being captured.

Whilst this isn't aggressive homophobia, nor would I consider him a raging homophobe myself, he still took advantage of the world view he was raised in, which, in modern terms, was problematic in itself.

Think the harmful, stereotypical, predatory gay trope in anime that a lot of anime fans have taken issue with. That's the stereotype WWX was trying to perpetuate and brush off as a silly joke which is bordering that harmful stereotype territory mentioned above. And yet I don't see the moral "holier than thou" crowd talking about that in their analysis on "fictional characters in an ancient Chinese setting."

(Note before I get jumped on: I don't think WWX was being cruel or malicious when he did this. Nor do I think he purposely intended to sully poor MXY's image further. And I ofc don't think that WWX is a terrible person for doing so either. The guy was desperate and needed to pull tricks to avoid capture. But that still doesn't make things right by modern standards. Even if said stereotype was used to goad a load of "homophobes." Would also like to add that even after coming out, WWX didn't really challenge the societal standard or think ill of anyone who thought like that. It's not like he toured the CW with LWJ, promoting gay rights. He'd be very extraordinary for doing that and brave, too. But he didn't. Instead, he just got up to sexy times with his husband daily and lazed about living the good life. Which is valid of him, tbh, giving the shit he went through. But my point still stands. The social norm persists.)

Also, bare in mind, WWX was heavily in denial about his own sexuality at first and struggled to come to terms with it in the beginning due to the societal norms back then, anyway.

Homophobia was the norm. Stop denying that when you know most of the characters found it bizarre.

By their standards being gay was, unfortunate as it is, unusual and to them, perhaps even immoral in its own right.

By modern standards, we know now that it is wrong. And the moral consensus is that being gay is normal and should not be vilified (even then, not all cultures today have reached that consensus and LGBT rights still have a long way to go).

With this in mind and the notion of what morality meant to people back then, you mustn't hold the characters to modern standards because that was simply the world view. What was "right" back then.

You cannot say with certainty that you wouldn't be homophobic back then, in a world where people called it strange and immoral. As much as I'd like to believe that I would be one of the few who find it wrong to treat gay people poorly, most of us probably would find homosexuality strange because that was the moral consensus of that time. As such, it is unfair to hold characters like JC, JL, and JGY to modern standards for that reason. That's the point we've all been trying to make here.

(Even then, JC and JL both watched as WWX left with his hubby into the sunset and didn't speak illy of their relationship again, nor consider them social outcasts like the Jins and Mos treated MXY. It's almost as if people can change their world views entirely (or to some extent) after things become normalised. Hmm. 🧐

Furthermore, MXTX herself said that JC wasn't a bad person. She wouldn't say that if he's the "aggressive homophobe, incapable of change" like you all seem to imply he is.)

You all make this point about historical context when us JC fans criticise WWX for his clear breach of bodily autonomy with the core transfer and his own war crimes. You should apply that logic to the period typical homophobia too. Because as I have said before, you cannot say for certain that the characters would be homophobic had this taken place in a society where being gay was the norm whilst homophobia was frowned upon. Let's use some logic and context when talking about characters from an ancient time period, shall we?

[asksythe]

MXTX Interview with Risa Wataya for Subaru Magazine P.1

INTERVIEW WITH AUTHOR MOXIANG TONGXIU IN JAPAN ON May 6th 2023 ABOUT INSPIRATIONS for MDZS (P1)

(Risa Wataya is a very famous novelist in Japan)

Risa Wataya: "Mo Dao Zu Shi" is very famous in Japan. When the Japanese version of the novel came out, I was so excited that I waited in line before the bookstore opened. This work is a "Chinese-based fantasy novel", so there are also some settings that I am not familiar with, but by consulting the material, I feel I gained a deeper understanding of the work. This makes me feel very happy. In addition, because Japan also uses Chinese-like characters, the image of places and names can be communicated directly, making the worldview easy to understand.

Ms. Mo Xiang, when this work also became popular abroad, how do you feel?

Mo Xiang: I never thought my work would be well received by foreign readers. I was very happy and also very surprised. I was also surprised to hear my friends say that Wataya likes it. Thank you very much.

Risa Wataya: For Japanese readers, the fantasy world of China is refreshing, with long-haired characters hovering in the air by manipulating celestial arts, sometimes displaying stunning moves or engaging in fierce power struggles. Environments like hidden lands, dignified palaces, and haunted houses all make people excited. Why did you choose such a fictitious setup?

Mo Xiang: Because I love traditional Chinese culture very much. If I have to describe it, I prefer old palace gardens, natural mountains, and river scenery to modern high-rise buildings. Compared to modern costumes, I also prefer the character in Hanfu with flowing hair.

Risa Wataya: Is there anything that’s exclusive to the fantasy genre?

Mo Xiang: This classification is very liberal. Anything can be written. For example, a beautiful woman that does not age for a hundred years, does not die in a hundred years. Or a monster that cannot die for a few hundred years. Imaginations that cannot be exercised in the real world can be used here.

 Risa Wataya: So it turns out. What is special about Chinese fantasy novels, compared to other countries' fantasy novels?

Mo Xiang: It can feel different to describe traditional emotions (*) that only Chinese people can understand. For example, other countries may have different views on blood relations between family members.

(*: can be understood as intrinsic social and cultural values and customs)

Risa Wataya: Indeed, it is rare for Japan to feel such deep house/clan ties through novels, so this work of Magic gives people a very refreshing feeling. On the contrary, what do you think is the reason why this novel is also famous abroad?

Mo Xiang: Maybe because everyone focuses on the characters and their feelings, not the setting and value system of the work.

Risa Wataya: I understand. The character concept here is great.

Mo Xiang: It could also be because my own setting is relatively simple and easy to accept. For example, when I was writing, I was obsessed with the southern and northern Wei Jin dynasties.

Therefore, I have read a lot of related literature, and the power structure mentioned in the work also mentions some Wei and Jin regimes. But when it comes to actually adding these elements to the story, I need to make it shorter and easier to understand. I didn't want the context to be too complicated, because I basically just wanted to describe the story of great Houses, so I thought of using a context like "The Hundred Cultivator Houses". For example, if you are familiar with magicians riding on flying brooms, understanding the setting of flying swords should not be difficult.

Risa Wataya: This is the first time I read the scene of exchanging jindan (golden core) and flying swords. Both are very cleverly interspersed in the story, which is a great setup indeed.

Mo Xiang: The concept of jindan can be a bit confusing for people from other countries. The jindans that appear in my works are a little different from the jindans that appear in other Chinese works. Readers consider it to be "exchange of spiritual energy in the body". In the novel there is also "The so-called jin dan is a ball of qi that forms in a cultivator's body after cultivating to a certain level. It is used to store and circulate spiritual energy." This kind of description, my friends told me: "Treating spiritual cores like an organ transplant. I have never seen such a ridiculous setting."

To Be Continued (The article is quite long) 

Translation by me: Sythe / NPD Khanh

[thistle--bug]

I ramble about the Untamed

I just finished watching the Untamed with my sister (it took roughly 3 months lol) and I just wanted to write down a barely coherent collection of thoughts I had about it

This was my first c-drama actually! I feel like I started with the finest one

When I started, I thought "how could you possibly need FIFTY episodes for this story?" and as it went on I kept thinking "how can this take ONLY fifty episodes?". Still now I think they could've used a few more episodes to flesh out some arcs better and the last arc did feel a little rushed

Although I get what happened and where it was left at worked for the story, we were ROBBED of more Husaisang content. I want to see him do necromancy and be clever!

The juniors were genuinely the BEST addition to the story. Not only did it let us see how Lan Zhan was bringing about the future of his clan and raising them with less restrictions, but they were just so cute. They helped the old stubborn cultivators accept change and trust Wei Wuxian more as well! And of course I adore Jin Ling. His relationship with Jiang Cheng may not be the typical sweet and warm uncle-nephew relationship but there is so much love and care there. Jiang Cheng may disguise his care as anger, but because Jin Ling is the same way he sees through it. He tells Wei Wuxian immediately that Jiang Cheng would never hurt him, even if he promises to break his knees every day.

Wei Wuxian and Lan Zhan have the central romantic relationship, sure, but the show writes every relationship with care and importance. Friendships like Wei Wuxian's and Wen Ning's are extremely important, as well as familial ones like Wei Wuxian and his Yunmeng siblings. With that, I think the sibling relationships are done exceedingly well. They are loving but complex and turbulent. Like I don't know any personal details but I bet you that MXTX has siblings 100%.

Honestly my favorite dynamics were Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian, the three sworn brothers (they FASCINATE ME), the whole messy ass Xueyang trio, and Wei Wuxian with the Wen siblings

Is Jin Ling leader now? I hope not, he's too young!

Obviously Jiang Cheng is my favorite. This man can't express any emotion in a healthy way to save his life and I, for one, find it endearing. I don't understand how people genuinely dislike his, especially considering how he was 18-19 when he became leader like.... do you realize how young that is and what that does to someone!!! Anyways, yeah, I don't care, I support his every action even when he's being a bitch

I wasn't expecting him to become so important tbh but I really adore Lan Xichen. He's genuinely the kindest. He is Wangxian's #1 wingman, even when they both threaten the image of his entire clan that he leads. He extends nothing but pure kindness towards Jin Guangyao even when he was at his lowest rank. Sure, his trust may have been his downfall at the end, but I admire him for it all the same

You know who else I admire a lot? JIANG YANLI!!!! Her blind 100% complete trust for Wei Wuxian even at his very worst moments is so commendable and I adore her for it. He NEEDED that

The music in this show is so damn good. Both the score and the character theme songs! My favorites have to be Wei Wuxian, Xueyang and Jiang Cheng's theme songs, because the voices are so pretty! And Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng's actors sang it themselves too :)

While it has a huge sprawling story, the actual message they tell over and over is quite simple: Kindness is essential. Like, we are given characters like Xueyang and Jin Guangyao that had a similar childhood to Wei Wuxian. Without a parent, abandoned, poor, and looked down upon because of their low status. The reason Wei Wuxian grew up to be a good person is because over and over again, he was treated kindly. Jiang Fengmian brought him into his family and he had siblings that adored him. Jin Guangyao and Xueyang weren't given that kindness and therefore weren't able to give any of it out either.

The golden core transfer reveal was so well done. I knew what had happened but I was SO curious how Jiang Cheng would finally find out. Bless Wen Ning for spilling everyone's tea lol. The way Jiang Cheng and Lan Zhan both had flashbacks to moments where Wei Wuxian was seemingly arrogant made them look cruel now. Everyone acted that scene out so WELL

I appreciate the efforts to push against censorship as much as possible. The actors added their own little flavor, small details like Wangxian bowing thrice as married couples do in front of ancestors, framing of certain scenes, and more...

The pacing and set up of this show were done really well! I think starting us out with the post-death Wei Wuxian era worked out so well because we knew some huge details of what had happened, but it left me itching and burning with the need to know how all this could possibly unfold and it really kept my attention the whole time

the distinct architecture and scenery of each clan was so beautiful!

Although I got truly hooked a little later on, I am so fond of the simple times of the Cloud Recesses. They were so young and carefree and that's the only time we really got Huaisang and Wuxian bestie time (which I really miss)

Okay I think that's all I got for now. This show unleashed the unbridled love and obsession for a piece of media I haven't felt in a while

[lansplaining]

u kno on the topic of interview answers/authors notes with mxtx, I tend to take it with a huge grain of salt. Considering how I keep hearing that she once said that wangxian were the only gay characters in mdzs, yet everyone I seem to come across agrees there was nothing heterosexual about LXC and his interactions with JGY. Like which is it.

well, right. I hold the perhaps controversial opinion that authors... can be kinda wrong about their own works. and I swear I don't mean it like that post about losing custody of your characters in court-- I actually think the wangxian/xiyao thing is a really good example of what I mean.

however you feel about xiyao as a ship or the two of them as characters, there is no denying that they are set up to parallel wangxian in a lot of really key narrative ways. just taking a few broad examples:

both are pairings of a Lan brother and someone who was born in a marginal social position but has entered a place of relative outward security and respect

this position of security and respect is rapidly dismantled due to a combination of WWX/JGY's own actions and snowballing rumors and anger based in part of social prejudice, ultimately driven by an individual (JGS and NHS) who wants to see them ruined

both Lans, in defiance of social expectation, try to trust that there is a reason their partner has made the choices they made and to understand where they are coming from (LWJ over a longer span, LXC in a very compressed period in the temple)

there is a divergence, as LWJ decides he will fight and die for WWX no matter what he's done, and LXC has a moment of doubt and stabs JGY

but then they converge again, as both are pulled into a violent final confrontation/climax and make the decision to die for/with their partner, only to be prevented

both are finally left with feelings of regret and a lack of resolution, as LWJ feels like he didn't stand by WWX early enough or fight hard enough, and LXC feels he wasn't given the opportunity to really understand who JGY was or why he acted as he did

to be completely obvious about it, narrative parallels convey meaning. it tells the reader "something about these two events/sets of characters is fundamentally the same." narrative parallels have also been a very common way historically to subvert censorship when it comes to queer content: you parallel a queer person or couple and a straight couple, and let the viewer draw the lines. i'll be perfectly honest, i don't know as much about the history of this trope in China, but you can certainly see it in CQL itself, and the ways wangxian is paralleled to Yanli and Zixuan to draw attention to the fact that they are both, in fact, romantic couples.

MXTX has said this is not what she was trying to indicate! but she did put in these parallels, and a reader cannot be blamed for interpreting them as indicating something-- or for interpreting them as indicating that the fundamental sameness that the parallel points to is that both wangxian and xiyao are and were in love. maybe it was an accident, but it's a very specific, and very specifically crafted literary device that is inescapably present in the story.

[baiwu-jinji]

Oh, tbh from the excerpts I've read that were translated and from CN mutuals that have read it, it is still pretty romantic. The censorship more falls on the kisses but some CN stans have pointed out that some of the kisses do still happen but the description is left vague/implied instead. I think for the Mainland CN version, it does seem like MXTX did her best to keep most intact. You can see some of the pages here! Including a page from the new extra! https://twitter.com/CassanderYoung/status/1659989226358964226?s=20 As for the AD being less censored, it's probably because it's based on the actual uncensored version of the revised text. One of the producers is actually friends with MXTX iirc? and she even thanked them in her newest post-script. So, there are lines in the AD that appear uncensored. This one for example! https://twitter.com/CassanderYoung/status/1694658005017739289?s=20

Glad to hear that and thank you for telling me! :) I like the excerpt from the new extra in the first link you sent so I translated it:

Xie Lian found it hard to believe, and said: “I don’t believe it, how could it be? Nobody told you that you’re cute even when you were a kid?”

After turning into a ghost, nobody would focus on the ghost’s physical appearance; and after becoming a “Supreme,” nobody would dare to comment on the ghost king’s appearance either. But a little kid was surely casually praised by a few people? Even Ban Yue, who was caked with mud and shunned by everyone as a kid, was earnestly praised by Xie Lian as “cute”.

Sure enough, after a long while, Hua Cheng laughed a little and said: “There was someone.”

Xie Lian felt reassured, smiled and said: “Told you!” He felt from the bottom of his heart that this person was incredibly kind and deserves much gratitude. Hua Cheng, however, said slowly: “That person was you, your highness.”

“Huh?!”

Hua Cheng released him, and as if hurt, he said: “Your highness, you don’t remember any of that? Back then you told me yourself that I must be really cute since my eye was so big. I knew you were lying about me.”

For some reason, even when there was nothing worth blushing about, Xie Lian felt like blushing. As if to resist something, he tried to push Hua Cheng out in a state of panic, and said: “I, I was telling the truth, I wasn’t lying. Only that…”

Only that it was too long ago. No matter how hard he tried to recall it, he could only catch some vague traces of it. He remembered the kid, but didn’t remember saying something like that to him, he might have just said that offhandedly.

But now he felt very guilty for not saying anything more like this, and not saying it in a more earnest and assured attitude.

[veliseraptor]

Soft/hard head canons for Shen Jiu 🙌

finishing off the last few of these in my inbox...this is an interesting one because like with other characters I feel like my headcanons for Shen Jiu in particular are less "hard" and "soft" than "malleable and story dependent" outside of, like, what we know textually. but let's see what I've got.

also sometimes as usual I don't know that I have headcanons one way or the other until I run into someone contradicting them, which I think has happened here but struggling to think of something specific...

hard headcanon: While the personality change from Shen Jiu!Shen Qingqiu to Shen Yuan!Shen Qingqiu is undoubtedly pretty drastic (and I really can't think about that plot point too long, it makes me feel Real Bad), I think a lot of the original goods' behavior is more self-fulfilling than inevitable or unchangeable. I mean, this feels like a definite theme in SVSSS generally (and in MXTX's works as a whole) - that people are not definitively and unchangeably Bad, that change is possible for people, even seemingly awful ones. (I mean, the entire arc of Luo Binghe's character transformation, for one.)

I actually think a lot of Shen Qingqiu's behavior was self-fulfilling prophecy - I mean, this is pretty firmly textually canon as of the Shen Jiu extras, I believe. He decides that people are going to hate him and therefore he acts in a way to justify and confirm that hatred. I love a self-sabotaging, self-isolating bitter asshole! I really do. That then calcifies, but not actually as much as I think Shen Qingqiu believes - he seems convinced that all his fellow Peak Lords will hate him forever so why bother trying, but we see in canon that they actually turn around on him fairly quickly when his behavior changes, which suggests to me a willingness to change their minds that I don't think Shen Qingqiu would believe in.

It is so firmly entrenched in Shen Qingqiu's head that he is loathsome and rotten and there's no changing that, that he can't imagine anyone seeing anything else. Given that, his expressed hostility is a way of warding people off at least from seeing any vulnerability, because it's not like he has anything to lose: in his head, he never had their affection or even respect. I think Shen Qingqiu would always be kind of bad at being a person and not terribly sociable, but I do think if he made an effort he would get more of a response than he would expect or believe would happen.

Also I think that at least one of the reasons he continues to push Yue Qingyuan away so hard despite the fact that he cares very deeply for him is because he wants to see if he'll keep coming back. Even if it's just out of guilt, and that's the last thing he wants, at least he does still come back, and that is, pathetically, better than nothing. Which just makes him angrier and makes things worse. Good times!

soft headcanon: The Ning Yingying question is one that I feel like I have a few different potential reads on - by which I mean to say, the particularities of the accusation that he was somehow inappropriate with her. The firm part of it is that I don't think he actually would make sexual advances on her (or any female students); my read on Shen Jiu is pretty firmly gay but sex-repulsed to the point that he's situationally ace. Where I do have headcanon variations is what, exactly, did happen - whether there was a misread somewhere by Yingying that got blown up as the forming picture of Shen Qingqiu as a lecher became more defined and absolute (i.e. reinterpretation of a past event that maybe felt funny in retrospect even if it seemed innocent at the time, or even something that felt a little awkward or inappropriate at the time but wasn't meant sexually, but that then becomes something bigger), or whether it was entirely false rumor, boosted by Shen Qingqiu treating his female disciples better than his male disciples and being particularly fond of Ning Yingying.

If the latter, then why doesn't she say anything? That seems like a pretty clear answer to me: in PIDW she's very much pushed into a passive role, and Luo Binghe is a strong enough personality with enough force of will that I can see her not feeling able to contradict him, and/or I can see her being convinced that it doesn't matter what she remembers, everything else is true and bad enough that one more thing is just going to ensure that Shen Qingqiu can't hurt anyone else, and/or that it's only fair if upsetting for Luo Binghe to have his revenge.

Basically: while I pretty firmly don't think Shen Qingqiu (original flavor) made any advances on Ning Yingying, I can see a few different ways that situation might have played out leading to it becoming another point against him at the trial.

I also wobble on how far I think the abuse went with Qiu Jianluo - whether it went all the way to rape or just ("just") the threat of it up to the point when Shen Jiu killed him.

[aeternallis]

It's been hanging out in the back of my mind for the past few months, but I think the reason why it's so hard for me to interact with the kpts fandom on here (with the exception of a very select few people) is because fanon has taken over to such an extent for kpts that subsequently, a lot, and I mean A LOT of the cultural context in this show has been erased because it's just easier to do so to a story with a modern setting, as opposed to a historical one, yknow?

And with that ease comes the resulting of some of the most...colorful interpretations and HCs that ngl, definitely hints at a more western mindset, than anything else.

Which is not necessarily...a surprise, based on what I've seen this site do to Asian media in general. Hahaha. After all, this is the site that said Sesshoumaru from Inuyasha is a pedo for marrying his ward, that Kaname from Vampire Knight is "ewww incestuous" for being in love with his distant ancestor. This is the same site that said JGY from MDZS did nothing wrong (ever), and thinks LWJ can't talk properly and speaks like Netflix's terrible subtitles.

And last but not least, this is the site that thinks dom/sub and top/bottom discourse is #immature and #feteshization when in reality the Asian BL subculture is literally built and maintained on this very important distinction of pairing order, which transcends who's sticking who in the ass, and has more to do with interpretation of characters as the author's explicit intent.

MXTX isn't being a whiny bitch when they say they hate it when their pairings are switched, it's because by switching up their pairings, you erase the literary importance of the gong love interest, and why MXTX positioned them that way. There's a reason why every single one of the MXTX novels is written from the POV of the shou, yo.

But, anyway.

I'm not Thai. I'm Filipino-American, who grew up in the Philippines for a good portion of her life and regularly goes back, and who is still somewhat fluent in Tagalog. And the borders of SE Asia contains within it a wonderful blend of so many different cultures that there are some scholars who, although dedicate their entire lives to studying this region, will never be able to fully grasp the cultural nuances that just aren't easily translatable to English sentences.

Having said that, there is still a set of cultural values and norms that unites this region AS Southeast Asia. I will definitely say for my own experience with kpts, one of the biggest factors as to why I fell in love with this show is because there were so many things about it that reminded me of my own upbringing, the cultural values and experiences that I grew up with, that makes this show special to me.

But Tumblr being Tumblr, it's no surprise that as always with non-western media, the cultural nuances are minimized or outright forgotten entirely.

In which case, KPTS is yet another victim to this inevitability, alas alas.

[silentstaresfanficandfanart]

As someone who has a friend who's into Enstars, but I do not play it nor know much about it, I've managed to gather some things over time and I think it's time I write what I assume Enstars is about and so, here it is, My summary of Enstars from someone who has never played enstars Enstars is a rythm game you play on your phone probably, And in it, theres pretty boys with lots of problems. The most important pretty boy is Eichi, His bestie and possible husband and or ex husband or something, and victim, Is Keito Hasumi. Eichi is a bad little man who causes problems, and his rivalfriend who's sort of helping him is a reddish plum haired vampire who's face looks like >:D all the time. He has a gun for some reason. Keito is very tired and survives on energy drinks, and he likes little animals. He's a bad guy but he's the main character and during enstars you chose a band to help sponsor. I'm pretty sure Keito and Eichi killed at least a few people. Keito is going along with this because he's very easily manipulated and Eichi is his best friend in the entire world, and Eichi is dying so Keito has to help him. Keito despite being a little nerd boy with glasses, wants to be a star. Also he likes Bl Manga, would probably read Mxtx's books if he could, and probably doesn't know he and Eichi are married divorcees but everyone else knows. I'm pretty sure they don't go to jail but Eichi at least definitely belongs there from what i've gathered. Also there's a magical boy who definitely can break reality. he's probably very important. And then there's the red haired seasick one who's just a soft little guy. And the purple stabby man. he's very fun! this, is all I have gathered so far : ) Please tell me how I did in the comments.

[joys-of-everyday]

Wei Wuxian and the Difficulties of Morality

Wow so I did not realise how much discourse there was around Wei Wuxian and moral greyness. Let me erm… poke around a little because that’s a hobby of mine.

Btw, I usually write about SVSSS. This won’t change. This is a one-off thing (for now).

Firstly, an Anecdote

Fun story, I watched cql and the mdzs donghua with my mum. There were many memorable things that came out of this, but one of the relevant points is an offhanded comment from my mum. She said (translated into English): ‘Wei Wuxian has no face to show Jiang Cheng, because he broke his promise to stay by his side’ (1). For context, my mum grew up in a fairly traditional Asian household. They take their declarations of loyalty seriously (or at least, that is my impression).

I find this interesting, because when it comes to moral judgement, I (who grew up in the west, with a lot of western values) get far more hung up on the things WWX did, rather than some promise he made in his adolescence. Breaking a promise is not ideal, but in my books, doesn’t really count as a huge moral failing.

The point here is not to say anything about the ethics of promise breaking, but to illustrate a point. Different people have different values. Or one person can have conflicting values. There are many scenarios where it’s not possible to say with certainty what is right or wrong. This is moral ambiguity.

(Funnily enough, the issue that my dad took with WWX was the fact he was fiddling around with dead bodies, which was like… the least of my concerns, but then I realised that bodies have a lot of religious significance.)

What even is moral greyness?

There are two possible and equally valid definitions of moral greyness.

1. Characters who are not 100% evil or 100% good

2. Characters who do not fall into the categories of ‘good’ or ‘bad’.

Note that definition 2 is a strictly stronger definition than definition 1. It is not that hard to argue that WWX does not fall under definition 2, in that he is somehow overall ‘good’. (I would also argue that MXTX encourages you to not think too hard about these dichotomies, particularly via SVSSS, but that’s a rabbit hole for another day.) It is also not that hard to argue WWX does fall under definition 1. Mainly because it’s quite hard not to breathe without falling under definition 1.

The Two Kinds of Uncertainty  

When it comes to ethical questions, there are two uncertainties you naturally run into. Firstly, uncertainty of the world, which comes from having imperfect information about the situation or consequences of any given action. Secondly, uncertainty around the underlying moral question. Is it okay to sacrifice few for the sake of many? Should we place more value on those close to us in comparison to a stranger?

Humanity has not figured out morality, and certainly not for a lack of trying. Standards change over time. We look at the behaviour of our ancestors just a few hundred years ago with no small amount of repugnance. Most likely, in a few hundred years’ time our descendants will do the same. This isn’t to pass judgement on anything or anybody, but to make an observation that there is nothing you can do in the world that doesn’t inherently come with moral ambiguity, because there is always uncertainty – both of the world and the morals you are applying. And wherever there is moral ambiguity, there is moral greyness (definition 1).

That being said, ‘everything is morally grey’ is not really a helpful statement. There are things that we (society today) generally agree on e.g. ‘killing someone for no reason is bad’ or ‘being nice to people is good’. So the argument I want to posit today is that WWX’s moral greyness goes beyond this in a substantial way.

The Uncertain Character of WWX

The Fundamental Principle of MXTX is that all narrators are unreliable. At the bloodbath of the Nightless City, did WWX kill 5000? 3000? Far fewer? Had WWX acted in a different way, could JYL’s death have been avoided? We’ll never know.

To add to this complexity is subtle shifts in canon depending on the adaptation. WWX tortures Wen Chao pretty brutally in the novel (and even if you hate him, it’s a bit ick). In cql, it ‘fades to black’. In the donghua it’s a nice quick stab. Then there’s all of the fiddling around they did with JGY depending on the adaptations, giving him more or less blame for the events. I’m not sure if ‘novel is the only canon’ is the correct way to go, mainly because adaptation!WWX is interesting to analyse in itself. I won’t explore this too deeply here, but something to keep in mind.

Anyway, I want to argue that WWX is morally grey, through commentary on a few elements of his character.

1. The Horrors of War

WWX does a lot of things that are somewhat eyebrow raising. You know, killing people and stuff. Now it has been pointed out plenty of times that his situation was unusual (it was war!). The moralities surrounding warfare are in itself complicated. A pacifist might argue that war is no excuse for violence, but even without going to such extremes, these days we appreciate that there are some actions that cannot be condoned, even during times of coflict – this is the notion of war crimes.

War crimes are a surprisingly modern thing (people started to care a lot after the atrocities of WWII). Medieval warfare was brutal. Anyway, these include things like ‘torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments’ and ‘wanton destruction of cities, towns or villages’. Note that while killing large numbers of enemy soldiers doesn’t fall under war crimes (although some methods of going about this do, like biological weapons), torture does, so that’s one strike against book!WWX. Now there is subtly in these things, because if you judged people by these standards for anything more than 200 years old, basically everyone is committing war crimes without thinking too hard about it. WWX did do a lot of arguably good things in the Sunshot Campaign (whatever good means in war) – he fought against the tyranny of the Wens and was one of the key things that shifted the tides towards victory. Without him, the world might have looked a lot darker. Whether these ‘goods’ weigh over the ‘bads’ is something to think about.

On a slightly softer note, weapons of mass destructions are another cause of serious discussion. Those involved in the Manhattan Project creating the first atomic bomb weren’t exactly all war criminals (moreover, many of them genuinely believed they were doing what was right and necessary) but the consequences of their actions are what they are. So while WWX made the Yin Tiger Talley as a method of deterrence and assurance, considering the consequences of its use and the potential for future misuse, here lies another moral ambiguity.

2. Intent vs Consequences

It’s fair to say that most of the time, WWX’s intentions were good. Whether it be to protect the weak, to stand up for justice, these are all things we can get behind. The consequences of his actions? Well, JYL is dead, as well as a bunch of other people, and most the Wens didn’t survive anyway. That’s a big oof.

Now most people don’t subscribe to the strongest version of consequentialism which judges whether something is right or wrong by its consequences only. As in, for one, it’s almost impossible to apply in practice because you can’t predict the consequences of your actions at the point at which you chose to do them. Case in point, most of the consequences of WWX’s actions weren’t wholly down to WWX and it’s difficult to say if there was anything at all that he could have done to lead to a better outcome. (Arguably, WWX should have tried harder to negotiate with the rest of the cultivation world instead of being a one-man army against them, but in that case, they might have just mowed down the Wens anyway.)

Then again, I think most people do subscribe to at least a weak form of consequentialism. No matter how good the intentions, no matter how righteous and commendable… if the outcome is bad, it’s hard to label those actions as ‘good’ (play pumps is an example if you want to look into how charities can do more harm than good).

I draw no conclusions here. It’s food for thought.

3. On Conflicting Values and Lose-Lose Scenarios

A lot of the above comes from applying modern ethics to a character in a world largely based on ‘Ancient China’ (the quotation marks from the fact Ancient China is several thousands years old and changes significantly over time). We do this all the time. Hell, people are still reimagining the Three Kingdoms and making commentary on the morality of Cao Cao (155-220). MDZS makes a lot of commentary on modern social issues (the ‘mob mentality’ of MDZS feels like Weibo/twitter lol), so viewing it through a modern lens makes sense.

But let’s put that aside for a second and return to my mum’s comment about WWX’s broken promise. By traditional values, family is important. In Confucianism, the Four Virtues are ‘loyalty’, ‘filial piety’, ‘continence’, and ‘righteousness’. To illustrate just how serious family was, in the conflict between Liu Bang and Xiang Yu, Xiang Yu at some point threatened to kill Liu Bang’s father. Then Liu Bang was like ‘we’re sworn brothers, so technically he’s your father too’, and Xiang Yu didn’t kill him, because it would be unfilial to do so. All this is to say, WWX turning his back on his sect and his family was a big deal. Equally, loyalty towards a superior was valued greatly, even towards eyebrow raising superiors.

But Confucianism also teaches the importance of things like ‘righteousness’ and ‘benevolence’. Throughout many dynasties, important people have cared a lot about the grievances of the masses. Bullying the weak and hoarding power unjustly is seen as one of the ultimate evils, a big reason for a leader to lose the Mandate of Heaven, thus becoming unfit to rule. Plenty of subordinates have stood up against the tyranny of their superiors. So WWX standing up to the evils of the Jin clan is highly commendable by these standards too.

Another thing is ‘paying back your benefactors’. In the west, although we do have concepts like ‘owing a life’, I don’t think it’s as strong??? This is also serious business. In the Three Kingdoms, Cao Cao spared his enemy general Guan Yu, and later Guan Yu briefly fought for Cao Cao even though he was an enemy, in order to repay this debt. Wen Ning and Wen Qing saved WWX’s life and helped him when he was in need – WWX has a moral obligation to help them in return.

Thus we see WWX between a rock and hard place. Turn away from the Jiangs and he turns away from his family, and from someone he promised his loyalty to. But turn a blind eye to the treatment of the Wens, and he is a not only allowing evil to go unchallenged, but also abandoning his benefactors. The game is rigged. There is no right move here. Morally ambiguity -> moral greyness.

(Note: A lot of the previous two points can also be viewed from a 'traditional' lens. Mohism has been arguing about pacifism and universal love since 400BC. Taoism has many things to say about intervening in world affairs. Life has always been complicated, and while our language/framework may shift, many of the underlying questions remain.)

(Second note: my knowledge of Chinese philosophy is all the stuff I learnt in Saturday school+a few books/youtube videos aka. not a lot. Please call me out if I'm sprouting nonsense.)

Let’s wrap up

Tl;dr WWX is a morally grey character.

And I haven’t even started on what went down at the Nightless City, or how interesting (read: morally sus) his methods of murder were, or his fantastic takes on risk assessment.

Maybe he’s good overall. Maybe he’s a hero. But heroes too can be morally grey. That’s just a part of life.

1. This is really hard to translate actually, and I think the way I’ve written it makes sense but comes across stronger than it was. More literally it was ‘can’t raise his head towards’. It was sort of explaining why JC was giving WWX a lot of shit later on and WWX wasn’t arguing back, more in a sympathetic way rather than a critical way.

As usual, thank you for reading! Comments and criticism appreciated, but I may be significantly slower getting back because my brain is in svsss mode rn :)

[mollymauk-teafleak]

wondering when I'm coming back

My first Hualian fic! For a twist on a modern AU that I'm calling the Lady and the Tramp AU because I think I'm funny and @minky-for-short lets me get away with far too much. Happy Christmas my lovely friend, thank you for introducing me to mxtx and so many other things I love and brightening up my days!

Please reblog and comment over on Ao3 if you enjoyed this!

---------

Xie Lian lives a privileged life. He's the top student at one of the most prestigious universities in the country, his family runs one of the most profitable businesses in the city and he lives in a house that's better called a mansion.

And all Xie Lian lives for is the nights where he's stolen away.

---------

Of all the many, many rooms in his parents’ sprawling manor, Xie Lian’s favorite was his own bedroom. Not exactly strange for a college aged young man, he supposed, but his reasons were. 

After all, where the family house was lavishly decorated, very little without an edge in gold or jade, or a swathe of silk or fine, supple leather, Xie Lian’s room was sparse. There were just a few posters of cheesy bands he’d liked as a kid but could bear to take down, some pennants of teams he’s played for in high school and was currently playing for at university, a trans pride flag he’d put up in a rush of rebelliousness though that was tucked in where it couldn’t be seen from the window. Apart from that, it was sparse and cramped compared to other rooms he could have chosen, most of the space given over to Ruoye’s vivarium. 

But that was precisely what Xie Lian loved about his room. Though it wasn’t what made it his favorite place in the Xianle house. 

That was the thick, solid door he could firmly close and put the rest of his life on the other side. 

He did just that, feeling like he could breathe a little easier the moment the lock clicked into place. Xie Lian took a moment, back pressed against the door, feeling muscles he’d been holding tense all day finally ease, feeling the buzz of stress in his brain wind down to blessed silence. Another day done. The perfect, flawless son of the Xianle Corporation could go to bed.

Now he was just Xie Lian, he dropped his bag, heavy with classwork, on his desk, and started shrugging out of his jacket. He left the equally expensive, equally uncomfortable jeans and shirt on the floor, eagerly wriggling into just an oversized jumper and leggings. The sweater came down to the scuffed knees and his old slippers were dog eared but no one could see him right now so he didn’t have to care what he looked like. He let his hair loose from it’s tie, shaking it around his shoulders and collapsing onto his bed with a sigh of relief. 

Hearing his noisy, clattering arrival, a tiny white head poked out of the log house, buried in the leaves of the vivarium. Ruoye slithered eagerly up to the glass, tongue flickering in welcome. 

Xie Lian grinned, shuffling to the very edge of the bed so he could reach across and put a gentle finger on the glass of the tank, “Hey buddy. Sorry I’m so late getting back, orchestra practice ran over.”

Fortunately, his little albino snake was very forgiving, just happy to see his master home. 

Xie Lian smiled warmly, “Look what I snuck you from the kitchen…” he reached down to rescue a tiny quail egg from the pocket of his jacket, holding it out in front of Ruoye, “Only ‘cos you’re such a good boy, of course.”

Ruoye’s tongue flickered happily as he curled around his treat, Xie Lian relaxing too. For a moment, all he wanted was to close his eyes and take a nap after another long day of classes where he had to get every answer right, of spending getting his homework and extra credit assignments done going from one lecture hall to the next because he’d have no other time, another exhausting lunch with his father meeting an endless stream of business associates who’d still look at him like he shouldn’t be here, like he should still be home sewing with his mother and wearing the wrong name. Orchestra was at least fun, he enjoyed playing even if he didn’t enjoy having to turn it into yet another competition, where he had to be the best, where he had to be the flawless Xian family heir. 

Thinking of it all like that, in a long list that seemed to have no end, one he’d have to get up and keep unraveling the next day, Xie Lian wanted to either cry or fall asleep to avoid it. But there was something he wanted even more. 

And just that moment, almost as if the universe heard him and decided he needed a break, Xie Lian got it, in the form of a soft knocking at his bedroom window. 

There was another reason why Xie Lian’s room was his favorite in the whole house and that was the enormous tree that grew just outside his window. He’d always loved listening to the birds that nested in it, watching each year’s new clutch of eggs grow and take wing. He found the light tap of its branches against the glass comforting in the middle of the night, he loved the shapes its shadow made on the wall. 

But more than all that, he loved how it was the perfect height for his boyfriend to climb up and steal him out of the house without anyone seeing, like a princess being rescued from a tower. 

Not that Xie Lian had known he’d need that. But now he did, he couldn’t be more grateful.

���San Lang!” he sat bolt upright, diving for the window and throwing it open eagerly.

The younger man perched casually on the branch only grinned easily, like they were bumping into each other on a park bench rather than three storeys up in the air. 

“You kept me waiting tonight, gege,” he hummed, though there was no reproach in his voice, just fondness as he leaned across the gap to kiss him softly. 

“I didn’t know you were coming,” Xie Lain murmured against his lips, not willing to pull away just yet though he laid a steadying hand on his chest, “Careful, don’t fall…”

“Have I ever fallen, gege?” his dark haired lover smiled, though he did sit further back on the branch, not wanting to worry him, “Sorry to show up unannounced, I didn’t know if I’d get the time. But things were slow at work, I figured the place could handle itself for a while and I just really wanted to see you…”

Xie Lian softened, his steadying hand sliding up to play with the beads in his San Lang’s crooked ponytail, “I’m glad you did. I really wanted to see you too.”

Perceptive as ever, San Lang’s one eye narrowed slightly at his tone, his own voice softening, “Bad day, Lian?”

It always mystified Xie Lian, how so many people, basically everyone apart from his closest friends, believed in the front he put up without question. Even his own parents couldn’t see the smile and the perfect grades and the eagerness to please for what it really was. A mask. And one that was getting heavier by the day. 

But from the first moment he’d met San Lang, stumbling across him being cornered in an alleyway by three other guys, holding his own as best he could but only saved from a savage beating by Xie Lian’s intervention, it had been like he’d understood. Like something had tied them together in that moment, two young men from such different backgrounds but with the same threads running through them. Being with him was like finally having his head break above water so he could pull in air. 

“Aren’t they all bad days?” he felt the smile on his lips wobbling. 

Immediately, San Lang shifted closer, the dappled moonlight and shadow playing on his face, making him look otherworldly for a moment, “Do you want to talk about it? I’m here, darling…”

Xie Lian hesitated before shaking his head softly, “No. I want to get out of here.”

His lover’s grin was lopsided but sure, an anchor Xie Lian could cling to and did so gratefully. 

“Then let me give you a hand with that, gege.”

The escape was simple and not something they hadn’t done before bit still, Xie Lian’s heart was in his throat for the whole swift climb down the tree and the race through the shadows that grew like moss along the walls of his mother’s garden, keeping them well out of sight of the house’s light. His fingers shook as he typed in the code for the back gate, his other hand firmly gripped in San Lang’s. Only when they were down the lane, safely shut inside his car, did he take a full breath. 

San Lang threw him a smile as he kicked the car into gear. It was an old thing, built up from scrap by San Lang himself, so it took a few turns of the key and the engine growled like something threatening. But once it got going, it was fast, easily slipping between the expensive estate houses and away into the night, putting the Xianle House far in the distance which was all Xie Lian cared about. 

“Where to?” San Lang asked, once they were out of the estates and heading towards the city, “Loud or quiet?”

Xie Lian pressed his forehead to the window, finding the cold glass and the rumble running through it comforting. He knew they could go to where San Lang worked, to the Ghost City casino, lose themselves in noise and crowds and flashing lights. Xie Lian liked it there, it was a completely different world to the one he knew, raucous and dizzying, even if he didn’t take part in any of it. Neither did San Lang, for that matter, not when he had his boyfriend with him. 

Though Xie Lian had heard rumors of what his San Lang got up to when he wasn’t there. When he was Hua Cheng. 

“Quiet,” Xie Lian murmured, with a grateful smile. He’d had enough of the noise. 

San Lang smiled at him, “Sounds good, gege.”

Xie Lian snorted, “Pretty rich of you to call me that. You’re only three years younger than me.”

That made him laugh, making the streetlights wink off the piercing in his lip, “That’s not why I call you gege. I call you that because you like it.”

Xie Lian blushed delicately, not feeling silly about the distinctly goofy smile on his face, “I do…”

San Lang winked and reached over, resting a hand lightly on his knee. The touch wasn’t wanting or expectant, just comforting, a grounding presence between the two of them. Just closeness for its own sake. The thought kept that smile pinned to Xie Lian’s face as they turned into the outskirts. 

They always went to the same place when they wanted quiet. The city sat in the bowl of a valley, twinkling in its grasp like a strange geode of many colours had grown up out of the rock. That left many secluded bluffs and cliffs where you could park and see the whole of the city spread out under you, all shadow pierced by blinking squares of light as night fell. 

It was beautiful, Xie Lian always thought so, when you looked at it like this. The distance helped. 

He perched on the bonnet of San Lang’s car, breathing deeply and just enjoying the presence of his boyfriend next to him, eventually just resting against him fully, head tucked into the curve of his shoulder. He felt San Lang chuckle, winding an arm around him to draw him closer in. 

Out here under the moonlight, Xie Lian could see him clearly. Long, black hair in a ponytail he never bothered to fix, tied with beads that chattered when he moved, the drawn back hair showing ears that looked more metal than flesh with all the piercings they held. The ink of tattoos peeked up from under the shoulders and sleeves of jacket, snaking down his long, clever hands adorned with rings and nail polish. Xie Lian knew them all, he could trace their paths under his clothing on memory alone. For all he held him gently and made him laugh, Xie Lian knew how his boyfriend looked to others, red and dangerous like a colourfully poisonous snake. 

In short, San Lang looked like the kind of young man who’d need to climb a tree to avoid his lover’s parents. Especially parents like Xie Lian’s. 

Xie Lian used to think that was why he liked him so much, what had drawn him to San Lang when usually the fear of his parents’ reaction would keep him far away. It was certainly the opinion of his friends, that this secret prince in the tower act was Xie Lian’s first big act of rebellion. Like never having tasted sugar and then waking up in a candy store, as Mu Quing put it, a little bluntly. 

But Xie Lian wasn’t so sure how. He thought there was something deeper between him and San Lang. 

“What are you thinking about, gege?” 

Xie Lian smiled, tilting his head and pressing a kiss to the hollow of his neck, “Honestly…I’m thinking about how there’s probably no one around for miles and you’ve got a pretty spacious back seat?”

The grin his boyfriend gave him made a shiver run fine his spine, even in the warm night. 

It felt like the most natural thing in the world when their lips met, as Xie Lian leaned back against the hood and let San Lang bracket him securely with his strong arms, his present warmth. He felt the cool of his boyfriend’s tongue piercing as their mouths fell open, the amber scent of his perfume mixing with the fresh scent of pine and night air. Anything still left tense now unwound as they kissed, a small whimper escaping Xie Lian whenever their lips parted, like he just couldn’t bear it. 

So he stole as many kisses as he could as San Lang drew him off the hood, pulling him into the back seat. Fortunately here Xie Lian could press even closer, straddling his lap, holding his face in his hands so his thumbs could trace the hard lines of his jaw. A shiver ran down Xie Lian’s spine as he felt San Lang harden against him, straining at the fabric of his trousers. Feeling a dizzying thrill, he pressed their hips together closer, grinding down, drawing a hungry growl from his love. 

“Teasing me, gege?” His fingers grasped Xie Lian’s waist tightly. 

“It’s not teasing if I’m actually going to make good on it,” Xie Lian grinned, nipping at his lip gently. 

To prove it, he wriggled his leggings down just enough, moving tightly in the cramped space. San Lang purred appreciatively, hands slipping down his curves, one thumb lightly circling his dick where it was already aching needily in that soft patch of down between his thighs.

“You’re so beautiful…” he groaned and never once did Xie Lian doubt him. 

He trembled at the touch with a high, sweet moan. All he wanted to do was lean into that pressure, chase down his release, but he wasn’t about to leave his rescuer wanting. Bracing himself on one hand, he reached down and forced his shaking fingers to undo San Lang’s buttons, the chains he wore around his waist clinking softly as he drew the fabric down and let his erection free. 

Xie Lian doubted people would be surprised to find that Hua Cheng had the cock to match his smug attitude and brash appearance. But he knew that he had nothing to fear from his San Lang, he was always gentle and careful, mindful of the inexperience and uncertainty his gege had come to him with. Even now, with the two of them panting and aching with want, he held Xie Lian’s hips, making sure he sank down on his length gradually and breathing deeply for his love to match him. 

“Oh gods…” Xie Lian felt every nerve ending in him spark, face pressed to his lover’s neck, clinging on like he’d be swept away in it all if he wasn’t careful.

Knowing they didn’t have as much time as they’d like, that they never did, San Lang started to roll his hips up into Xie Lian’s heat. It was complete bliss, each deep, powerful thrust pulling him further into himself, into a body he could love so easily and a headspace he could call home. Xie Lian felt himself growing, soaring, rather than shrinking. He cried out loud, he let his hair tumble into disarray, he felt sweat run down his spine and his cheeks flush and his voice break and he just didn’t care. It didn’t matter. It was just the two of them and he could trust San Lang with himself. 

He had to switch his bracing hand to the ceiling of the car, with how heavily San Lang was fucking into him he was in danger of hitting his head. He could feel his peak coming, far too soon for his liking but he just couldn’t hang on, his body chasing it down even as his heart wanted to stay in this moment forever. 

“I…I can’t…San Lang…” he tried to make his muscles obey so he could speak but there was a new electricity seizing him. 

But San Lang seemed to understand, moaning and wrapping him in his arms, “Come for me…my prince…”

Xie Lian wasn’t going to deny his love anything. His release hit him hard, everything disappearing in a wash of bliss, only San Lang’s arms around him and his heat in him meaning anything. They fell too soon, crashing back to the cramped interior of the car, now stifling and misted with their heavy breaths. The high was so dizzying that the tumblr down was enough to bring tears to Xie Lian’s eyelashes. 

Before he could stop himself, before he could throw his guards up, he was shaking against San Lang, the tears bleeding into the fabric of his boyfriend's shirt. 

San Lang didn’t seem surprised, only moving to hold him tighter, “It’s okay…gege, it’s okay, I’m here.”

“But you’ll have to go,” the words were heavy, miserable, Xie Lian cringing at how he sounded like a small child having their comfort blanket taken away. He should be better, he should be stronger…

But San Lang kissed the side of his head, smoothed his damp hair, “I know, gege, I wish I didn’t have to. It’s okay to be upset, it’s okay to cry. It’s only me here.”

The simple fact of that, that for once he didn’t have to be strong, he could let himself feel hurt and scared and upset, that shattered the last of his resolve. He cried into San Lang’s shoulder, barely noticing as his love gently shifted them so they slid apart, so he could hold him close in his lap and rock him. He just gave into the ache for a while, knowing San Lang was there to keep him together. 

Eventually Xie Lian felt lighter, the sobs breaking down into shuddering gasps and raspy breathing that San Lang guided him to slow and deepen. 

“Sorry,” Xie Lian mumbled, rubbing at his eyes with the sleeves of his sweater. 

“You’ve nothing to be sorry for,” San Lang said firmly, kissing his cheek.

His unfailing kindness helped Xie Lian find a smile, “Not even for ruining your shirt?”

San Lang grinned, “Not even for that. As long as I can help you, gege, that’s all I want to do when we’re together.”

He gave a damp laugh, “What did I do to deserve you, San Lang?”

“You didn’t have to do anything, Lian,” he answered so plainly, as if it was the most obvious thing in the world, “You were just yourself.”

Xie Lian let himself go through the motions of cleaning up, rearranging himself, making himself presentable again so they could drive back. The goodbye was coming and, even though it would only be for a short while, a couple of days before San Lang could come steal him away again, he knew it would hurt. 

They pulled up in the shadowy alley where San Lang always parked, out of sight of any neighbours.

“Well…” Xie Lian sounded as if he was trying to convince himself, “I should get going.”

San Lang’s dark eyes glittered in the low light, a thoughtful expression coming over what little of his face Xie Lian could make out, his brain filling in what he couldn’t. 

“Give me your hand, gege.”

Xie Lian did, feeling rather than seeing as San Lang tied something around his wrist. He brought his hand into the light and gave a soft gasp as he saw the red thread San Lang always wore on one finger tied there. 

“It might be a little obvious to wear it on your hand but like this, you can push it under your sleeve and no one will be any the wiser.”

“San Lang…” he breathed, unable to take his eyes off that simple red string, so humble but meaning so much. 

There was more he wanted to say. More he wanted to tell San Lang, Hua Cheng, whichever of them wanted to listen. Words that had been pressing against his ribs for a long time, like three birds beating their wings against the bars of a cage. But he couldn’t let them go, he just couldn’t. 

How could he ask San Lang to bear the weight of those words when he couldn’t promise they had a future?

Blissfully unaware, San Lang smiled and kissed his cheek, “You’re stronger than you know, gege. I’ll see you soon.”

“I’ll see you soon,” Xie Lian smiled for him, holding on to those words tightly. 

He clung to them the way he’d clung to San Lang’s hand on his swift return through the gate, across the lawn, up the tree and through his window. The heavy lock clicked into place behind him, putting the world where he could be with San Lang and be himself firmly on the other side. He felt his heart sink at that sound. 

Ruoye came slithering out of his house again, blinking his ink drop eyes up at Xie Lian. He opened up the vivarium and reached in, letting his snake climb up and curl protectively around his wrist, getting comfort from the pressure. 

“Thanks, buddy,” he murmured, running his finger gently down the length of him as he went and laid back down on his bed with a sigh. 

As Xie Lian stroked Ruoye that single thread of bright crimson caught his eye and, despite it all, he smiled. He thought about him being stronger than he knew. He thought about the relief that came after tears. He thought about dark eyes and their strange warmth, strong arms around him, a rough, infectious laugh. 

Xie Lian thought about how his bedroom was his favorite place in his parent’s manor. 

But there was a whole world out there he was growing to love too.