#I think Eärendil

[erendur]

Whose mithril shirt are Bilbo/Frodo wearing ?

We are told in The Hobbit that it was made for an "elf-prince", of which we also know there aren't that many, so that leaves (explanations below the poll) :

Eärendil : this one is kind of my favourite option, given that we are told in The Fall of Gondolin that his parents had a mail-shirt made for him. They aren't strapped for cash so could easily have splashed on a mithril shirt, especially since Idril was full of foreboding about the fall of the city and Tuor was literally told by a Vala that the city was going to fall. So this would have been money well invested. They could have had it made in-house. How did it end up in Smaug's hoard ? I see several options there : a) in the confusion of the attack, which happened during a festival, there was no time to go back home and put the shirt on, instead Eärendil was sent straight to the escape tunnel, the shirt was later on stolen during the plunder of the city and somehow made its way to Erebor ; b) much more unlikely, the shirt was cast away and abandoned on the long march fleeing Gondolin ; c) the shirt, given its value, was exchanged once in Sirion against supplies (Eärendil had outgrown it), maybe directly with dwarves, and made its way to Erebor ; d) the shirt was kept in Sirion for Eärendil's descendants as a family heirloom but plundered and bartered after the massacre there.

2. Elrond/Elros : two options there : two shirts were ordered for them by their parents and either were never delivered because of massacre, or were delivered but did not have time to be put on in confusion of massacre, and were latter plundered (or their parents chose their favourite child and decided he would be the one with the shirt). Extremely unlikely but the shirt could have been ordered by M&M for their favourite peredhel (Elrond. They were low on cash and ordered just the one shirt for Elrond), but they were overtaken by Silmaril lust before the goods could be delivered.

3. Dior : another pair of not-strapped-for-cash parents, they could have had one made ? Maybe ? Even though when Dior was a child they were living in their own little earthly paradise and being very much left alone ? So maybe Dior had actually a series of them (for different ages) and maybe they all ended up in hoards ? Or it was later on taken to Menegroth, of which more below.

4. Elured/Elurin : Dior took the throne minus The Girdle, he was not strapped for cash, so it would have made sense to have some protective equipment made for his sons. Once again, these could have been left unworn in the confusion of the sudden attack and later on plundered /just one shirt made for the favourite child or two shirts made but one ended up lost, melted for mithrill, cut up into pieces, etc.

5. Elrohir/Elladan : highly unlikely but they are elven princes so I included them. The shirt(s) could have been ordered by Elrond but then, bam !, dragon happening and so on. Elrond is way too classy to point out to Bilbo that the shirt he is wearing was actually ordered (and paid for) by him.

6. Gil-Galad : depending on what age/parentage you imagine him to be. He is an Elven prince (maybe). He is associated with the colour silver. He had to flee to Cirdan. He could have left his shirt behind.

7. Maeglin : not technically a prince, but his father bowed to no one, had dwarven connections and a serious penchant for violence. Could have had a shirt made for his son before he considered trying to kill him, and the shirt could have been plundered from Eöl's place after his death.

8. A gift from Galadriel for a potential Finrod baby : This comes from the fact that a known hoard and source of plunder is Nargothrond. Galadriel seemed to have had a bad case of "Auntie fever" in the Silm, and badgers Finrod to marry and have kids (he says no because he has a stupid oath of his own to make instead). But she could have tried to tempt him further by having a pretty baby mithril shirt made (sex and reproduction being the same thing for Elves as per LaCE, the most potent Elf aphrodisiac is shiny baby clothes - they just can't resist it)... So the shirt ended up in Nargothrond, and was plundered later on, tada !

9. A gift from Finrod to Galadriel for a potential baby : she badgered him to marry and have children, and according to some versions of the Legendarium Galadriel remained bethroted to Celeborn for most of the First Age and only married him after the fall of Doriath, so maybe Finrod could have tried some Elf aphrodisiac of his own to try and get his little sister to finally get married and give him some nephews and nieces. He had the dwarven connections. He liked jewellery. He had the shirt made but did not have time to give her the gift before he died.

10. Legolas : Unlikely, but he's an Elf prince. His father likes fancy stuff. His grandfather much less so, hence the move to Greenwood, so the mithrill shirt would have been out of character there. They have terrible relations with the dwarves (better before the whole Smaug business though, but still as Doriath Elves they are not on super good terms). So who knows. War-traumatized Thranduil might have ordered it before Smaug's attack. Unlike Elrond, he kind of strikes me as the guy who would mention it, though.

11. Celebrimbor : he was already an adult when he moved to Middle-Earth so wouldn't have worn the shirt there, but might have been the right age when his grandad, aka the best Elven-smith ever, was taken by "making weapons fever". Fëanor could have made the beautiful shirt for a young Telpe. Either him or Curufin then brought it with them during the Exile because it was a masterpiece and a family heirloom. It could have ended up being plundered from sacked Eregion. It could have been found on Curufin's dead body at Doriath (he kept it with him in memory of his son and carried it with him to Doriath because he knew he was going to die there). If we want to go very goth and dark, it could have been stolen from Curvo's tomb if he was buried with it (I like it !)

12. It wasn't made for an Elf-prince at all : nobody really knows for whom it was made. It looked very fancy, so Thorin just assumed it had been made for "an elf Prince", without giving it further thought. He just meant a super fancy Elf, not necessarily a prince. Could well have been made for someone else (a fancy Numenorean ? A fancy Man ? A fancy hobbit ?).

Or just, Jirt wrote The Hobbit way before the Silm and did not think that he was then going to write a prequel for which he would also write extensive side-notes in which he was going to say that there were very few Elf-prince babies born after the Exile.

[riding-with-the-wild-hunt]

with my whole heart i truly think elwing/eärendil is the most sweepingly romantic ship in the legendarium. like. what if we were the only two people like us ever in the whole world yet by fate and chance and tragedy we found each other. what if we built a home and a life at the ends of the earth and against all odds it was good. what if we knew no help was coming. what if we chose to live anyway. what if i flew through the storm to find you. what if i knew you and held you even in another shape. what if you told me not to follow and i did. what if i let you make the choice for us both. what if you gave up even the touch of the world you loved so we could stay together. what if we saved that world but not for us. what if our love--for each other, for the world--was so strong that it rent the fabric of the universe. what then.

[quixoticanarchy]

I do kinda get the people of Nargothrond and Gondolin ignoring Ulmo’s warnings, even though it ended terribly for them. Like what do they think Ulmo can do for them? What can he do? Evidence has shown Eglarest and Brithombar aren’t safe, so are the people of the hidden cities supposed to go camp out at the Sirion delta or hole up on Balar and just.. wait? Exposed and defenseless? Ulmo says help will only come from the Sea, but what help? Ulmo’s just one guy. Turgon tried to send mariners; they all drown. Even Ulmo himself goes to the Valar pleading after the fall of Gondolin and Manwë is unmoved. What help is coming that’s convincing enough to throw away your secrecy? Probably it’s a matter of “it’s right to act out of faith when given instructions by a god even without corroborating evidence” but it’s hard for me to be frustrated with people for thinking, accurately, that that’s a lot to demand with no guarantee

[queerofthedagger]

there is something so interesting to me about how the eagles came to actively help fingon (and maedhros) in the very early days of them being in beleriand, and then 450ish years later they come once more to at least bring fingolfin's body to safety (and there is something, too, how they bring him to gondolin and not back to fingon), and then another 20ish years later fingon dies and gets beaten to dust and no one is coming anymore. turgon only makes it back to gondolin thanks to the men, but the eagles still help protect the city. until they don't. i don't have one great theory or conclusion to this, somehow it's both telling and completely arbitrary at the same time, but it's rotating in the back of my mind at all times like. man

[edennill]

The Bidding of the Minstrel

'Sing us yet more of Eärendel the wandering, chant us a lay of his white-oared ship, more marvellous-cunning than mortal man's pondering, foamily musical out of the deep. Sing us a tale of immortal sea-yearning the Eldar one made ere the change of the light, weaving a winelike spell, and a burning wonder of spray and the odours of night; of murmurous gloamings out on far oceans; of his tossing at anchor off islets forlorn to the unsleeping waves' never-ending sea-motions; of bellying sails when a wind was born, and the gurgling bubble of tropical water tinkled from under the ringéd stem, and thousands of miles was his ship from those wrought her a petrel, a sea-bird, a white-wingéd gem, gallantry bent on measureless faring ere she came homing in sea-laden flight, circuitous, lingering, restlessly daring, coming to haven unlooked for, at night.' 'But the music is broken, the words half-forgotten, the sunlight was faded, the moon is grown old, the Elven ships foundered or weed-swathed and rotten, the fire and the wonder of hearts is acold. Who now can tell, and what harp can accompany with melodies strange enough, rich enough tunes, pale with the magic of cavernous harmony, loud with shore-music of beaches and dunes, how slender his boat; of what glimmering timber; how ther sails were all silvern and taper her mast, and silver her throat with foam and her limber flanks as she swanlike floated past! The song I can sing is but shreds one remembers Of golden imaginings fashioned in sleep, A whispered tale told by the withering embers Of old things far off that but few hearts keep.'

---

Came upon this poem of Tolkien's again and I must say it still has the same mind-blowing effect on me as when I first discovered it at thirteen.

[that-angry-noldo]

when are we going to talk about "and wings immortal made for him" in regards to eärendil. what does it mean. is eärendil winged now or am i missing something. why is nobody talking about this

[anghraine]

Sometimes it's interesting to be a firm agnostic but also to feel a strong attraction to the concept of the sacred and/or mystical. I'm not sure attraction is even the right word—but art that leans into a sense of sanctity or mysticism is intensely appealing to me in a very fundamental way, especially when coupled with a sense of grandeur or glory. And ritual, I love a good religious ritual.

My family's religious background is Mormon, Catholic, and Greek Orthodox, so it's not really surprising. But it's like, despite the standard religious damage, and despite being deeply skeptical of anything smacking of the supernatural, I love entering the headspace of characters with a strong religious sensibility, I love visual art caught up in the sacred, I love fiction that can give you a sense of the mystical in ritual, I love when I'm expected to believe there's something sanctified in a building or relic or rock (real or not), I love visual or narrative art that can truly evoke a sense of the divine.

At the same time, I don't believe it. Nor do I wholly disbelieve it, I'm just like ... eh, idk, this is not in the realm of knowable information. But damn do I feel the appeal of religious conviction.

(This whole train of thought got started because I was thinking about how much I love playing clerics, lol. Anyway)

[elvenmoans]

The kidnap fam being sweet at times doesn't conflict with the fact that M&M don't deserve the boys or their love. And it absolutely doesn't conflict with the fact that Elwing and Earendil were unforgivably wronged and deserve their children back. And the boys loving them doesn't even conflict with hating them as well.

The fact that Maglor and Meadhros don't deserve domestic happiness is what makes it interesting to explore. I don't see the point in flattening it out. And I really don't see the point in Elwing hate.

[eldal0te]

I can’t help thinking again about the parallels between Eärendil and Cirdan.

Eärendil, who is forever doomed to sail the sky, his star providing guidance for everyone who needs it, always just watching from afar, never able to interact with the land he protects. 

Cirdan, who doesn’t get to reach the Valinor though he wants to, whose role is to provide the means for others to sail there, without doing so himself until the times of elves are over.

They are both constantly present throughout the history: Cirdan providing the ships for men who follow Eärendil to Númenor, Eärendil’s star leading elves that sail Cirdan’s ships to Valinor.

Both of them are given the task from above that they need to fulfill. It’s just that, after the narrative is over, Cirdan is the only one who is done with his.

They are completely different characters, but at the same time they have their similarities and I just can't stop thinking about them.

[erdarieldraws]

Eärendil and Elwing both survived the destruction of their home planets as children, and grew up on the space station Sirion built by the survivors. Now they are both grown adults and have children together. But then the station intercepts a cryptic signal, which seems to hold clues to the location of Valinor, the mythical lost planet said to be a paradise like no other - and the signal is bearing the callsign of Eärendil's parents who were lost in space years ago...

[crownedwithstars]

I firmly believe that Elwing bullied her (and Eärendil's) way into Mandos - looking disturbingly like Lúthien when she did - that she got to see Elros one more time before he passed beyond the circles of the world.

[runawaymun]

Elwing and Eärendil? I have Thoughts about them and now I wonder what yours are

Oh boy you got me 😔

I know this is a really uh…controversial take, but I don’t ship them. Everything about them smacks of imprisonment. Like get a divorce already.

I think they got married way too young way too fast and that actually neither of them enjoyed being married, and Eärendil didn’t enjoy being a father and Elwing didn’t enjoy being a mother. Eärendil is constantly gone (????) and wanted to make the choice of Men, but Elwing talked him into making the choice to be counted amount the Eldar (entrapment) which then leads to him having his heroic big moment against the dragon only to be essentially imprisoned for the rest of his life as a star (entrapment). Like not to discount how cool they were for sailing to Valinor & petitioning for aid, and Elwing’s sacrifice to jump into the ocean with the Silmaril — but they both read as sort of an antithesis to Beren and Lúthien for me. Beren and Lúthien chose their destinies and went to them gladly. Eärendil seems to rage against his for his entire life only to be trapped by it in the end, and Elwing is a tragic victim of her birthright as heir to Doriath, a child monarch who is crowned before she’s old enough to understand what that kind of responsibility even means who “dies” well before her time, just as Dior did. These two are drenched in tragedy.

But like, not in a fun way IMO? I think Eärendil really resented Elwing for the Choice they both made and it really feels like he never wanted to be around at all, for the amount that he’s just not present in the narrative of Sirion — in theory he ought to be father and king consort — and also ought to be a ruler in his own right over the refugees from Gondolin. He’s heir to Gondolin after all. And he has two heirs of his own to raise. Instead he’s Eärendil the mariner and it feels to me like he just shirks all that responsibility because he craves freedom. He’s the classic runaway price archetype who does the Big Hero Things…but at what cost? Tolkien makes it clear in characters like Eowyn that the Big Damn Hero Thing is not really the ideal which he lauds. Better to live a quiet life than to yearn for a vainglorious death (again…Earendil’s fight against the dragon feels almost…suicidal to me? On the one hand it’s cool. On the other hand it resulted in the drowning of beleriand. It’s like Eärendil wanted to be the subject of songs and tales, always wanted to burn out fast and bright. Etc etc. and then he’s left in stasis with the Silmaril in the sky…)

I’m rambling oh my god, in any case I dislike both of them and I especially dislike them together. They feel to me like those couples who were really cute in high school but then got married before their brains were done developing, had kids too early, and now Dad is Always Working and Mom has postpartum depression and a wine problem and you just wish they’d get a divorce already but they won’t because they’re both too unpleasant and stubborn to do so. I don’t think either of them were ready or equipped to be parents and while I am grateful that they got married & had kids so then we get Elrond and Elros, I don’t think it was good for them and they would have been way better off apart.

[armenelols]

For after the Last Battle and the overthrow of Morgoth, when the Valar gave Elros and Elrond a choice to belong either to the kin of the Eldar or to the king of Men, it was Elros who voyaged over sea to Númenor following the star of Eärendil; whereas Elrond remained among the Elves and carried on the lineage of King Elwë.

Note 19 - And also that of Turgon; though he preferred that of Elwë, who was not under the ban that was laid on the Exiles.

- Problem of Ros, HoME XII

Every once in a while I remember this passage and am sent spiralling into the orbit.

Elrond saw the disaster that were the Noldor and went 'nope, I am staying out of that drama. Sindar, here I come' and he's so valid for it. Living up to the as wise as a wizard. He looks at the elven side of his family tree, goes 'do you think I am stupid' and chooses the least problematic branch.

[carlandrea]

the silmaril does only obscure Eärendil's face in the glare tho Feanor and Morgoth both wear all three silmarils with their faces fully visible

[holytrickster]

also i finally finished the silm earlier and oh my god i understood narn i chin hurin so much better this time. like i know the whole thing isn't included but the fact the main parts are mentioned *after* i knew who the heck everyone in it was and where everything was happening made it so much more understandable now than when i first read it back when i was like 14 bc i went like hobbit -> lotr -> children of hurin with a lot of time in between where i forgot stuff

[sillylotrpolls]

Every now and then I get asked about ships, and I usually avoid the question both because I think it's obvious what will win and because "ship wars" just aren't fun. But, fine. Just this once, in honor of Valentine's Day, ~let the ship wars rage~. Hopefully no one sails too far west and triggers the sinking of Númenor.