#I love Batman and Robin parallels so much

[littlefankingdom]

So happy this post came back on my dash so I can rant about an idea I have.

Anthony Zucco would be the vilain because this Batman's movie follows Dick's pov.

Batman is like Spiderman, everyone knows his story at this point, telling it again is a waste of time. And, Batman’s movies tend to concentrate on a love interest instead of his family, which is just not very Batman. So, Robin's time! Through Dick's story, we can retell Bruce's story, and shows how they connect and how well Bruce can understand and support this kid.

You follow Dick Grayson as he loses his parents and this stranger comforts him, before trying to take him in. It's strange, because this nice guy is very different from what other adults say he is. Aside from that, Dick is craving justice, so he goes out to get it, and he meets the Batman. On one side, we demonstrate Dick developing detective skills, on the other, we demonstrate him developing the fighting spirit. The combinaison of both is what is needed to be a bat. As the story progresses, he discovers that Bruce is Batman, and Bruce has to accept to have a child following him around on rooftops. They bond through their different identities, Bruce showing how much he understand Dick in a way nobody else does.

The goals here is to make a parallel between Bruce's story and Dick's story and to demonstrate why and how Bruce will become so important for Dick. When the movie ends, people must think "they are not father and son YET, but they will, they are made for each others."

I need the softer side of Batman to be shown to the adult audience SO BAD.

You get free rein and a blank check to write the next Batman movie but you can’t use any villains who have appeared in any previous live-action Batman movies. That means you can’t use Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, Riddler, Two-Face, Poison Ivy, Dr. Freeze, Scarecrow, or Bane.

Which Batman villain stars in your movie

[dizaryswrites]

Getting emotional Being so very normal about this parallel between Batman and Robin (2012) and Lazarus Planet: Alpha 1.

After everything they've been through, losing Alfred, the struggle to communicate and ensuing arguments, their fights in Batman vs Robin, do you think Damian remembered this night? Remembered how desperately he wanted his father to see him and how capable he was and just finally trust him? And now, when everything is going to hell in a hand basket, and everyone looks to Bruce to lead...he points them back to Damian. Damian who is capable and knows what's going on and taking charge because he is his father's son.

Bruce sees who Damian has become and trusts him.

[too0bsessedformyowngood]

Okay so I’ve been reading a lot of reverse robin AUs recently and I have a hot take. Duke Thomas should be the Dick Grayson parallel instead of Damian.

Hear me out. So bare bones Duke was the last to join in cannon, so he should be the first to join for reverse robins. But to get deeper into it Duke lost both of his parents at the same time setting him down a path of becoming a vigilante. He becomes Bruce’s ward instead of being adopted because he already was raised with two good parents and doesn’t want them to be replaced. He also created his own mantle that was the opposite to Batman, the light to Batman’s dark, inspiring hope against Batman’s fear. He’s friendly and works well and inspires others, but also extremely sharp and smart which people often forget.

Damian would work well as a batgirl parallel more. He would join after Duke but be a few years older, got there already trained and immediately jumping into crime fighting. Covering the areas that Bruce and Duke don’t fill. While Duke takes up his own name Damian would use a name more inspired by Batman himself.

I just think this dynamic of Bruce and Duke being the first dynamic duo would fit so well (also get to spotlight Duke who so often gets overlooked).

[necrotic-nephilim]

for the ask game, an AU where (somehow…) jason and tim (begrudgingly) team up in the search for a hero/battle for the cowl era (either when jason says tim should work with him on the gang stuff or when batman jason asks tim to be his robin) :]

for the ask game!

god, Search For A Hero my beloved. for the Search For A Hero version of their team-up, I think I'd write it something like this

I think the biggest reason Tim says no when Jason asks him is Jason asks Tim too early in the arc. as the storyline develops, Tim gets more and more desperate to best Ulysses, which is what pushes him to make the mistake that gets Ulysses' siblings killed. he's in a tight spot and he misjudges the situation. (i think the guilt he carries from that moment is one of the biggest inciting incidents for becoming Red Robin) so, i'd introduce Jason to the plot just a little later. just as Tim is on the edge of desperation. Tim isn't entirely adverse to working with villains if he thinks he can stay on top of them. so instead of sending Jason to prison, i think if Jason came to Tim at the right time, Tim would begrudging accept Jason's help

part of Tim's plan would be leveraging Jason's power with the mafia/mob scene in Gotham. they'd agree that topping the gangs would just cause a power vacuum (i'm pretty sure that's actually addressed in SFAH but i could be misremembering) so it's more about a balancing act, which is where Jason thrives. Tim is right on the cusp of being willing to do more morally questionable things, so it'd be a fun internal war for him to second-guess himself at every turn.

there would be such a delightful lack of trust in their partnerships. TIm has *zero* reason to trust Jason, and while Jason likes Tim enough, i don't think he's naive enough to put any trust in Tim. so there'd be moments where they don't fill each other in on aspects of the plan. Jason kills people behind Tim's back, Tim keys in his cop friend behind Jason's back. it builds the tension between them with a lot of hot arguments that get more and more charged.

the jealousy. there would just have to be a scene where Jason gets wildly jealous over Ulysses' complex over Tim. Ulysses tries so hard to pit himself as like, Tim's biggest adversary, his opposite. and Jason would *despise* that. sure, Jason is working with Tim, but part of the fun is that they're still enemies as they do it. i think it'd be sort of fun to have the moment where Ulysses blows Tim up be something Jason witnesses and he raises unholy hell about. because if anyone is going to kill Tim Drake, it's going to be him. and that angry possessiveness is what makes the romantic/sexual tension something neither of them can ignore anymore.

Tim deciding to put on the Red Robin suit to fight Ulysses would be where Jason just. goes full tilt possessive "he's mine i marked him that's my suit. see. mine. i said so." and Tim would push back but. what ground does he have to stand on bc he could've picked any suit with any cowl to protect his head after the blast, but he did choose Jason's. it was his own open invitation to Jason in a way. and well. they fuck nasty about it. and then Damian becomes Robin, so why not Tim keep the suit and just maybe, keep Jason in his back pocket.

and!! for the Battle for the Cowl version. man on one hand i love "Tim accepts Jason's offer to be his Robin" fics but i feel they lack a bite to them, so this is personally how i would try to pull it off, while being relatively in character.

so the biggest thing for me is, TIm agrees to be Jason's Robin not because he trusts or likes Jason, but for the same reasons he became Robin in the first place: to keep Batman stable. being Jason's Robin isn't about wanting to work with Jason, it would be Tim knowing there's no world Jason is ever going to stop and seeing Jason slowly tip over the edge of madness and well. if Tim was self-sacrificial enough to do it for Bruce and attempt to do it for Jean-Paul, he can do it for Jason.

him agreeing would i think startle Jason. like, Jason's offer was never particularly serious because he's at the point he knows Tim wants nothing to do with him. so when Tim says yes it sort of. snaps Jason out of the rage BftC puts him in. he's so startled but enticed by the thought, he willingly agrees to stipulations Tim sets, like no murder. like even if just to see where this goes, Jason jumps on the chance.

i'd really want to keep Dick and Damian as Batman and Robin, and the weird divide that would exist with Dick/Damian and Jason/Tim both running around as Batman/Robin and how off kilter that puts Gotham. like Gotham is so baffled by it, it actually makes criminals easier to handle. because they have no clue if they're getting the Batman who needs Robin to keep him in line, or the Robin who needs Batman to keep him in line. people know there's two Batmans, two Robins and no one knows quite what to do with that information. who's the "real" Batman? who's the "real" Robin? and on the personal level, the divide between Dick and Tim would be unmistakable. Dick would know what Tim's doing and try to convince him Jason is a lost cause bc well, Dick at this point *really* believes Jason is a lost fucking cause. So Dick's genuine care and concern for Tim just drives a further wedge between them.

i think there'd need to be a scene where Tim flat out asks if Jason even *wants* to be Batman. in a sort of attempt to slowly ween Jason off of being Batman, but also because i don't think Jason ever really wants to be Batman, he just wants Batman to be what his vision of justice is. and it'd be the first real heart to heart they have, discussing the legacy of the Robin and Batman mantles and how it's affected them. it'd be heated, but it'd be their first real conversation as just. Jason and Tim.

to me, i think the end goal of this AU would be Tim successfully "taming" Jason, and not in like a soft way, but in like a manipulative way, where even Jason knows that's what Tim is doing, but he just goes along with it because it's the first real human connection he's had in a while. also, i would work in Scarlet, Jason's sidekick in Batman & Robin (2009) as like. a pseudo daughter figure for them to help Jason find his humanity a bit. so it's not just Tim as Jason's rock, but also this misguided girl they'd both try to help. and well, then they ride into the sunset and all that, but still have a complicated, toxic dynamic they're both aware is unhealthy, but as balanced as it can be.

[deadsetobsessions]

Danny Fenton is so damn sick of rich fruit loops. It’s worse now, since he’s one of them.

It’s not Vlad that he’s with, thank the Ancients, but Danny isn’t sure that this is better.

Because he’s Timothy Drake, a baby, and he’s been reincarnated after the Ancient of Reincarnation accidentally drank too much wine.

He’s going to kick their ass so hard when he gets back.

Danny huffs. He rolls over, ignoring the silent manor. Sure, he’s read the comics. Sure, he laughed and imagined being adopted by Batman- come on, Danny had black hair and blue eyes even back then, he was totally adoption bait- when his parents gave him reason to lose trust in their love. But that’s it, that’s all he thought it was. A day dream, a wish for a universe that didn’t exist.

Danny hadn’t understood the reality of the whole Infinite Realms thing, a place he was now the King of. Batman? Real. Danny? Reincarnated. Hotel? Trivago.

Like, this wasn’t what he meant, dammit.

And now he’s stuck as Timothy Drake, and Ancients, he was starting to see parallels.

——

Danny tried photography. He really did. He wanted to at least stick to the source material. But that’s not who he is. Even with the shiny new brain that memorized, catalogued, and put together clues at the snap of his fingers, but Danny’s never been one to take photos. It’s a respectable art, for sure, but Danny preferred to live in the moment instead of capturing it to remember forever. It’s just-

He watched the Graysons fall. He watched Dick Grayson turn into Robin. And Danny can’t and won’t ever betray his Obsession like that, ever again. He can’t let Jason die for his “story” to begin. That’s not how Danny works.

He’s there to protect.

Danny hasn’t ever been just Tim. Danny was also Tim and the Ghost King without a haunt. But now? Gotham is his haunt. He, in lieu of an actual city spirit, is Gotham. He’s also a Drake. And Drakes were meant to hoard.

Batman and Robin? They are his.

He claimed them, as a Drake. But that claim is weak. So he claimed them as their city, and that is a claim that will never be able to be challenged.

Danny’ll be damned before he allows some lanky starved clown beat the life out of one of his Robins. So, for the first time in his nine years on this planet, Tim-Danny goes ghost and flies.

“Who- who. Are you?” Robin slurred from his place in Danny’s hold. He is broken, yes. But not dead. Danny infuses some of his vitality, his ecto, into Jason’s injuries to help them heal.

“Gotham.” Danny replied, layering his ghostly voice with those of the city.

“Goth’m?”

“Gotham. Sleep, little bird. Your city has got you.”

When Robin, Jason, settled with a sense of trust that tugs at Danny’s core, Danny carried him to Batman, whose eyes were wild and manic. He glared menacingly at the green and white ghost in front of him, who was holding his broken and beaten son-

Well, it’d be menacing if Danny hadn’t watched him eat bricks and mortar, crashing into a building while using his grappling gun.

“You-”

“I am Gotham.” Danny cut him off. Despite his wary nature and natural paranoia, Batman settled at his city’s gaze rested on him. Danny knew that Batman recognized his city. Batman’s head bowed, but his eyes stayed on Robin. “You were supposed to take care of Robin.”

“I- I know.” And that voice was all Bruce Wayne the Dad instead of Batman the Vigilante. Danny gently placed Robin in Batman’s arms, taking in the tremors as he held his son close.

“Go back, Bruce. And make sure Jason knows how much you love him.”

He laughed as Bruce whipped his head upwards. “I am your city. You are mine as much as I am yours. I’ve known of you before you were born.”

Technically? Not untrue. But Bruce will chalk it up to weird magic shit. It’s not like it’s a secret that Gotham’s kind of curse. Besides, this way, Danny will be able to help out more often. And Bruce won’t be able to connect Tim Drake to the “Spirit of Gotham.”

“Return, my knight. This is not your city. I can not protect you as well as I can in Gotham.”

“Thank you… Gotham.”

Danny sighed. He wondered when he’ll have to field questions from a John Constantine. He’s pretty sure Bruce will call in magical help, even if it was his own city he was investigating.

Batman’s lucky Danny liked him enough to allow it.

[umbrellacam]

ok sorry I just have to yell about this real quick -

Nightwing (Vol. 2) #139 - The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul, part 6 Dick: "I let you make the choice for yourself...because I knew you'd make the right one."

Dick didn't know shit, lmao!! "Because I knew you'd make the right one" my ass lol.

Let's rewind two minutes shall we:

Dick: "Tim... Listen... There are no easy answers... But you have the right to make the choice for yourself." || Dick (internal narration): "No-win. If I stop him, I don't trust him. If he goes through with it, I shouldn't have trusted him. C'mon, Tim..."

He doesn't know what choice Tim is going to make, whether his grief will overcome him and he'll take the Lazarus water or not, and has in fact been physically fighting Tim this entire issue to stop him by force. But ultimately he knows it's Tim's right to choose for himself, and decides to hope, and have faith in his brother.

And he has that faith rewarded, and reaffirms it afterward, despite the fact that he wasn't sure.

And paralleling that moment of "yes of course I knew you had it":

Red Robin (2009) #12 Dick: "How'd you know? How did you know I'd be there to save you?" || Tim: "You're my brother, Dick. You'll always be there for me."

TIM DIDN'T KNOW SHIIIIIIIIT HGKLJDKFLSD

At least not consciously! Being caught by Dick is certainly not something he planned for, as he seems to be trying to imply.

Again, rewind:

Tim (internal narration): "I did it. I saved the people he loved. I saved everything he worked so hard to build. No compromises. He won't say anything, he never does. But I know. I know that Bruce will be proud of me. Not a bad day." || Tim: (in the midst of pASSING TF OUT) || Dick: (swoops in and catches him)

Tim may not have actually known that Dick would be there. But that catch... A falling Tim being caught by Dick is a motif that occurs over and over and over across the years of their relationship. Why do I feel like there's a part of Tim, faint as he faded out, and much stronger when he woke up, that went, "Oh, it's Dick - of course if it was anyone, I knew it would be Dick"?

After their conflicts and miscommunications in this arc, after Tim sweeping back into town and explaining not a single thing as he races to thwart Ra's, despite Dick's frustrated pleas, after cutting Dick off with a simple, "Batman...trust me," and Dick's responding, "Of course"....

Tim feeling like he knew, even if he didn't know, or plan, or expect. Because that's his brother. And choosing to express that trust, after Dick chose to trust him...

Just. Dick and Tim. Verbally reaffirming their faith in each other, even after in-the-moment doubts. BROTHERS. My emotions.

[celaenaeiln]

Hiii, how are you? I’m new in the Batman fandom, but i saw a lot of people saying that Jason is actually Batman’s favorite child, and when i was reading the comics, i really though that Dick is Bruce absolute favorite, but i saw a lot of posts here on tumblr of the fandom saying is actually Jason and that the batkids all know its Jason, but i don’t know what is canon and what is fanon (quite honestly when it comes about the batfam i don’t like a lot about the fanon version 😭), so i wanted to ask you about it

And sorry if i said something wrong, english is not my first language

Hi and no worries at all!!

Yeah, canonically Dick is Bruce's favorite by a LONG shot and canonically the batkids all know this.

Infinite Crisis Issue #3

It's says right here in the comics. Really explicitly. But not only that, time and time again, there is clear evidence of Bruce's preferential treatment of Dick over the rest of the batkids.

One time the batboys and Bruce are searching for a guy that kinda is using the Gotham criminals as his subjects. So what they decide to do is split up to narrow him down.

Detective Comics (2016) Issue #1057

But they run into issues because the villains chose a 'divide and conquer strategy"

Detective Comics (2016) Issue #1057

Bruce gets swept away! Because of a carefully planned trap. But do you what he does the second he wakes up?

Detective Comics (2016) Issue #1058

JDAKFA;BFJALEC

BRUCE LITERALLY WENT: "I love Dick and all the other not-Dicks equally" !!!!!

As if that's not enough, Bruce's biggest fear is that he's not good enough for Dick.

Bruce's fear about Dick-

Batman vs Robin Issue #3

because he believes this -

vs

Bruce's fear about Jason -

Batman vs Robin Issue #3

because he believed he failed to do this -

Batman: Hush

Reminder: Joe Chill is Martha and Thomas Wayne's killer. Enough said.

If you want to be even more explicit about Bruce's preference for Dick over Jason it can't be clearer than here:

Bruce reflects on Jason's Robin tenure -

Batman (1940) Issue #428

Something a lot of people don't know/refuse to acknowledge is that Jason canonically did have anger issues. There aren't a lot of parallels between Jason and Dick but one particular thing that DC points out is that Jason and Dick both lost their beloved fathers. The difference is that Dick was able to move on and become cheerful even if he didn't get revenge. Jason wasn't able to get over the loss of his father and became angry. UTRH makes a specific point of talking about this too.

Batman (1940) Issue #645 "He knew that Jason Todd was NOT Dick Grayson."

Do you remember why Jason became Robin?

Batman (1940) Issue #416

Bruce wanted Dick. He took in Jason in replacement for Dick. But Jason was not Dick and even on the day he died, all Bruce could think of was that taking in Jason was a mistake.

The batkids are well aware of this. Damian actually calls Jason Bruce's mistake too when he's recounting the story of the robins.

Here's what he says -

Batman (1940) Issue #713

That's Damian's retelling. Tim's is even worse -

A Lonely Place of Dying

Ouch.

Truthfully Jason is like Bruce's 4th favorite. In order of how much Bruce loves his kids it goes:

Dick

Damian

Cass

Jason/Tim (tie)

Tim/Jason (tie)

Steph

I think there's so much confusion about Jason supposedly being the favorite because Bruce grieved over Jason's that but I think a lot of people are conflating grief and self-blame with love. There have been two significant deaths in the family: Jason and Damian. If you look at how Bruce reacted in each aftermath, it becomes clear that he loves Damian more than he loved Jason.

After Jason's death:

Batman (1940) Issue #429

Batman (1940) Issue #431

After Damian's death:

Batman and Robin (2011) Issue #21

Batman and Robin (2011) Issue #20

He would forcefully make Jason relive the worst day of his life so that his other son could enjoy his.

Bruce's behavior after Jason's death was self-destructive and isolative but his behavior after Damian's death was to beat bloodly every single criminal. His reasoning for beating Dick after Jason's death was "Jason was your replacement. If you hadn't left I wouldn't have had to take him in and he wouldn't have died." His reason for beating Jason after Damian's death was "Your trauma matters so little to mean that all I want is Damian to live again and I couldn't care less about how you feel."

In summary, Jason wasn't Bruce's favorite either as Robin or as an adult. But even if it's not Dick, claiming that Jason is the favorite is so far off that no one is DC would remotely believe it. You would think there would be more analysis on Damian's death in comparison to Jason's because they were two big official deaths but I guess not for some reason. I ran out of image space but yeah there's more than just this overall. This isn't to say that Bruce doesn't love Jason. NO! He very much loves him. But he just doesn't love him the most.

On a different note - coming from someone who went from TT show to YJ to fanfic AND THEN reading comics, I've had relearn a lot about each of the characters. But for people still in the process of transitioning from fanfic to comics or just in the fanfic stage, general rule of thumb when it comes to batfamily content - NEVER trust what people say if they don't provide the evidence for it. People in this fandom are so wild that they'll have you believing the earth is the center of the universe, that you'll fall off the world if you go too far left or right, and that pigs can fly.

[haveihitanerve]

thisssss!!!!!

Dick: I may not agree with everything Batman does, but I understand it. He raised me. He was like a father to me -- and to Tim. And you know how it is with fathers. You can criticize them... But no one else can.

Dick is a "Only I and my siblings can criticize Bruce/Batman, and I will fight you if you do" son confirmed. Watch what you say about Batman in front of him.

I think this is important because of the posts I see saying the Titans are Batman's biggest haters. Dick would not tolerate them criticizing or talking shit about Bruce, about his dad, so the Titans better watch the way they talk about and to Batman. Only he can whine about Bruce.

[confused-wanderer]

As much as I love Dick and Damian’s relation, no way in HELL would Dick actually be that soft on him- like excusing his actions or favouring him over the rest of his siblings.

You wanna tell me Dick’ll immediately accept him and start showing him love. PLEASE. The man would take one look at the angry child craving revenge and immediately get flashbacks to his original days as Robin. He earns newfound respect for Bruce as he realises just how much of a chaotic gremlin he was.

But he can’t use empathy. Because while Dick was mad and wanted revenge for his parents, Damian doesn’t know any better and quite frankly even kills just to be petty. You can’t tell me Dick doesn’t pull out the logic stops and parallels Bruce training him.

The way he grills Damian harder, trains him to be faster and makes him spar knowing Damian would always lose. Because sure, it may not have always worked for Dick but it was perfect for humbling Damian.

When Dick finds out Damian tried killing Tim, you can’t tell me he won’t see red. He won’t allow another brother to die or get hurt, not on his watch. He’d give Damian a final line, a line he won’t hesitate to fire back with all he’s got if Damian crosses it. Dick would try to be empathetic, but not this far.

He’d divide his time, trying to figure out Damian and how to encourage him to choose his own path, while maintaining a strict code Damian has to follow to prevent him doing down the wrong one.

If Damian commits murder that is justified, or crimes that serve a greater good, he’ll dump Damian in Jason’s care to help him understand how grey areas work, but sometimes black and white does exist.

If Damian demands logical reasoning, Dick’ll escort him to Tim so the two can have an intellectual battle (if Tim agrees that is, but the chance to put the brat in his place is always too good for Tim to pass up)

Maybe Damian sees the warmth Dick has for his brothers, how they care for him in their own way and it helps him recognise how he can change too, in his own way.

All I’m saying- They may be close, but Dick wouldn’t have blatant favouritism, nor would he try and exclude his brothers or brush them off in favour of Damian. Dick knows how to be a team player, and utilise his team to complete missions too. Damian needed balance in all areas, and Dick knows he can’t do it alone.

Dick would help Damian, pay more attention to listen to his arguments to the others as Damian doesn’t have much of a reliable data to cross reference or emotional triggers or morals that Dick knows about, so he can’t “know” the person- therefore all his advice will be taken with a grain of salt.

But it does not make him excuse Damian actions, instead he’d be strict Batman style parent who won’t hesitate to take his brothers��� side over Damian if he’s wrong, and will strike back if he crosses certain lines.

[rubydubydoo122]

I've seen a lot of discourse about who the angry Robin was, but like... why do we have to define the Robins in terms of that?

Dick's Robin embodied Light. He was the Foil to Batman's Darkness. His story is meant to parallel Bruce's and it's because of the reason he became Robin in the first place. He became Robin, not to avenge his parents- he didn't want to kill Tony Zucco. He became Robin in a very similar way that Jason became the Red Hood; To make sure it doesn't happen to anyone again.

Jason's Robin embodied Hope. He was a character who was given opportunities and he made the best of them. He was given a home, and a family, and education and he loved it all because at some point he could only hope to have those things. It gave him the outlook of 'If things could get better for me, than things can get better for other people, if I do what I can help them.' To Jason, Robin meant giving people hope, and that's why Jason was deeply affected by Gloria Stanson's death. She had lost hope.

Tim's Robin embodied Determination. No matter how many times he was rejected by Bruce, he still stood by his side. No matter how many of his family and friends died, he still kept fighting. No matter how hard he was beat, he still got up.

Stephanie's Robin didn't have a long run, and I sadly don't really know how to quantify her Robin. Maybe spite, I feel like. Because she became Spoiler to stop her dad, and be like 'haha, L' and also because she became Robin after her and Tim broke up. Idk, if any of you have a better idea pls tell me

Damian's Robin embodied redemption. You can tell from the beginning of his run, to current comics how much he has grown and changed. When he was younger, he didn't really understand how the LOA morals were wrong, but then he learned, and he's constantly trying to move away from that and lead with more compassion in his own Damian way.

Duke's Robin embodied the people. He was what they needed at the time. I don't really know much about his Robin either, so pls lmk if it's not that.

[bluegarners]

there tends to be a kind of under estimation in regards to dick’s attitude towards his parents. they’re more often used as The Reason for his path of heroism, and that’s true enough, but it’s a very focused Reason that often fails to include the actual Loving Parents. i would argue that thomas and martha wayne get more attention in regards to their loving on bruce, and in certain time traveling corners on dick as well, but it’s rare to see that kind of respect paid to john and mary grayson. the parallels we can draw between bruce and dick pretty much end after dick is taken in. we can count: loving parents; stable family structure; only child; bright future; horrific murder of parents; witness to said murder; and plot for vengeance as the core parallels between dick and bruce. where they begin to diverge is the point in which bruce becomes the guiding mentor for dick in how to channel that sense of grief and rage (though bruce had alfred, alfred played no part in diverting bruce from his self destructive path and encouraged it)

to that end, there’s a lot of talk about martha wayne’s pearls and mary grayson’s robin, but even then talk seems to only center around dick’s hero name and never what about the history the name implies. “robin stands for hope”, okay what else? martha’s pearls symbolize the catalyst for bruce’s transformation into batman, but does mary’s robin do the same? i think not, bc going back to the divergence between bruce’s and dick’s origins, though bruce remains the defining fork in the road for dick, if dick were raised in extremely similar circumstances as bruce, bruce would have more or less fulfilled the role that alfred did for bruce- which was mainly distant but caring adult figure that served to simply agree rather than direct. a reasonable conclusion, should bruce have fulfilled such a role for dick, would have been that dick should’ve become bruce #2. obviously, dick didn’t and the reason for that lies in john and mary grayson

this may ruffle some feathers, but there is a point to be made in the difference between the wayne parents and the grayson parents. let’s do some quick if thens: if alfred was left in charge of bruce, then alfred holds some responsibility in how bruce turned out. if bruce grew up to be someone emotionally closed off, then bruce is an emotionally distant, closed off adult. if bruce is an emotionally distant, closed off adult, then it stands to reason alfred reflects the same. so, if bruce and alfred are both emotionally distant, closed off adults, then when they take in dick grayson, dick will grow up to be an emotionally distant, closed off adult. right?

well, we all know that’s not how it turned out, and all reason for such a conclusion reside solely in the short time john and mary grayson raised their son. “but bruce had about the same time with his own parents. why did he and dick turn out so different?” and again i point directly at the implied differences in the wayne’s and grayson’s child rearing! the waynes represented a very nuclear family, one that is generationally upper class and in very prominent leadership positions. tracking the assumed and typical rearing patterns for that kind of family, though it may be a foundationally loving one, it’s also one that is radically different from the type the graysons represented. power and job structure rested solely with thomas and martha; bruce had very very little to worry about or any responsibilities other than making good grades and being a generally good son. comparing such a dynamic to the graysons, the power lines begin to blur a little. john and mary are employees, not leaders or heads of anything. however, they work in an extremely team oriented and cooperative environment- their earnings depend on everyone and themselves. though a prominent act in haly’s circus, they are not a completely solo one, and even then, it is a team, FAMILY act. since his birth, dick has been raised in an environment that focuses heavily on teamwork and perseverance. he took on enormous responsibility in being a part of the flying graysons, which likely wasn’t something he was being forced to do, young as he was. taking on a JOB as young as 9 years old, one that tests his physical, mental, and emotional strength sets him drastically apart from bruce when he was the same age. but let’s go back to john and mary again

no parent on earth would ever want to put their child in such a dangerous position as performing on the trapeze. and yet, john and mary did. why? dick’s initiative and his parents’ trust and strength. if john and mary believed that they lacked in some way that could put dick in harms way, i find it impossible to believe they would have ever let dick join them. dick did not learn his strength and endurance from bruce. dick already possessed those qualities before meeting him, otherwise dick would have never become robin and joined batman so quickly. the graysons set an ENORMOUS example for dick, one that set the tone for the rest of his life. taking into account the “it takes a village” familial structure that dick was raised in while with haly, dick would have learned that the strength of individuals COMBINED is what makes a person strong. even the formation of the flying graysons relies on trust in each other, that they will be caught in the next leap and that they can do these amazing stunts without fear of failure BECAUSE of the Faith they have in each others abilities. in addition to that, an environment that encourages strength and teamwork must also encourage FAILURE. one cannot learn from perfection- only through mistakes does one grow, and dick grew EXPONENTIALLY. dick grew, at the age of 9, to PRODIGY levels of talent and acrobatics. john and mary set an example so strong and so steadfast that it fostered dick’s stone-solid character for the rest of his life, even after they were gone from it

dick would have not survived his parents’ deaths were it not for the way they had raised him. it is why dick can move on and grow from it, whereas, as we’ve seen a dozen dozen times, bruce has failed to ever move on. coddled and adored as he was, bruce never had to face a challenge that his parents wouldn’t have gladly taken care of for him. the waynes did everything for their son because they loved him enormously, and what parent in the world would force their child to do difficult things- especially at 10 years old? of course bruce never had to confront things like failure or hardship before, his circumstances in life simply wouldn’t have allowed for it, and that is why bruce was so incapable of handling his parents’ deaths. thomas and martha did not prepare bruce for difficulties in any department, whereas john and mary introduced problems AND solutions to dick very early on. the SOLUTIONS bit is what set up dick for so much success- that’s the key difference between the two. dick had both parents AND guides, while bruce just had parents

dick would not have become a light in the world while with bruce were it not for john and mary grayson and their love and dedication towards their son. the credit for dick’s achievements as a hero may fall to bruce most of the time, but even bruce recognizes that he had zero part in the formation of dick’s strength of character. dick’s continued success and perseverance has EVERYTHING to do with those first 9 years he was with john and mary, and not a single one of the innumerable tragedies dick has endured has ever been able to disavow that

[batbabydamian]

The Boy Wonder #3 by Juni Ba rambling about how cool this series would be to read in a single sitting...it's all so connected!!

rambles for issue #1 and issue #2!

i don't have as much personal interpretation for this cover besides it being a solid piece of art in shapes and silhouette! ALSO. bi bg lighting lol. Damian's "X" posing of his cape and swords parallels with Tim's "X" chest straps + the Robin emblem in the center. Tim's closed Red Robin wings frames Robin's own outstretched cape wings; and on top of that, the shadows cast inside the wings nicely frames Damian's demon mask.

Joe and Merle's dynamic has been so fun, especially with the mutual enthusiasm over the storytelling 🥺 Joe also opens up about his circumstances that led him to this moment, which perfectly sets up the setting of this issue! Even his very first introduction becomes a relevant detail when a fancy rich couple drops a champagne glass, uncaring of the people literally below them, saying “some poor sap down there’ll appreciate it” when it bonks Joe’s head.

it all comes around!! and tbh this issue proves how much this series would slap to read in a single sitting (GET THE COLLECTED EDITION)

Going beyond first impressions seems to apply to the color palette in this series. From #1 in the first page of Gotham, we see the gold of upper society to the blue of the downtrodden → from issues #2 and #3, it’s the warm gold of inner Gotham to the cold blue of the rich. there’s a sense of community displayed among the poor - even part of Jason’s intro avenging Bill, a generous man mourned on panel by many. The rich gives off a sense of individualism, celebrating themselves and their excess.

With the change in scenery, this issue steps into the more civilian side of things through a spy theme - fancy suits and lil gadget intros! Going down the civilian route with Tim feels very fitting since it's what makes Tim's run as Robin so charming!

i love that Talia’s taught Damian to be conscious of the rich’s effects on society, especially in the following page of small panels zoning in on the details of wealth and overindulgence. but also LIL DAMIAN. HIS LIL ROUND EYES AND HANDS 🥺

Damian’s aware of the facts, and his disgust is clearer after having just been through lower Gotham and seeing firsthand the poverty directly caused by the wealthy (also not sure if that old lady is the same one from #1 with similar hair and clothes, but pls she can't a break…)

i mentioned Damian’s “inciting incident” for this journey to be the intro of a demon for Damian to prove his worth but i’m correcting the use of that term!! the intro of the demon is more the beginning of plot, whereas the actual inciting incident is beheading the thief!! it’s the main reason he’s in this situation where he felt the need to prove himself, and atone. Most notably is that the beheaded thief is a consistent character that quite literally haunts Damian every step of the way.

The statue of Batman’s head being popped off becomes a significant visual, because while Damian started this journey to prove something to Bruce, the only one that really seems to have (quite literal) eyes for Damian’s journey is the thief. Why does he make more of an appearance than the actual Bat? Even his statue’s head doesn’t make a figurative presence; whereas the only one looming over Damian is the thief. Guilt over killing him may be driving him just as much as his desire to be worthy. Alternatively, it could be that Damian needs to reexamine his motivations since the thief is really getting in Damian's face now.

Damian is proud to be a positive influence on Tim, but the moment is short-lived. It’s an ironic moment to me because Damian doesn't even know the impact he's had on Jason just in the previous issue!! 😭

Damian's so desperate to prove his worth, yet he's been making choices in every issue to help others!! Helping the old woman up in #1, being vulnerable with Jason in #2, and now sacrificing himself for Tim!

The Ra’s "Weakness" panel has been reoccurring since #1, but it's the first time Talia has been included. Being great figures in his life and mind, their silhouettes consume Damian's, similar to a few of Batman's appearances below. This latest disappointment was such a blow to Damian, that Talia (who he might have the most respect for) becomes an added voice in his head.

Final thoughts!!

Like Rok, does the thief actually have a connection to the al Ghuls or is this beard just in fashion at the moment.

Lex is clearly referencing one of the Underwell warehouses that Joe and Merle are presently, so wondering if whatever he and Tim discuss here will be affecting them later.

Ending with Talia’s cover for extra hype!! i’ll probably go back to this for the next ramble, but i’m already gearing myself up to wail about Talia just based on this cover. The Mary and Jesus imagery (more prominent with Damian’s lil crown as a “prince”) but most importantly Talia weathering the flames for Damian…her own shroud/shawl wrapped around Damian and burning… oh boy

[charlietheepicwriter7]

Finally reading "Under the Red Hood" for my story, Dick Grayson V Gotham and some notes about what exactly happens here:

Jason's helmet really is a whole ass red circle with eyes, isn't it.

There's constant internal monologue about how much Batman cares about his kids. From Alfred and from Batman.

There's a whole ass woman who I have never seen referenced before called Onyx? Who's apparently the "only other hero allowed in the whole of gotham... other than catwoman".

Bruce recognizing Jason just based on how he fights and plans is beautiful, even if bruce doesn't believe it yet.

Superman's over here flirting with Bruce, going "we could have gotten tickets to the theater if you'd called ahead 😘😘" while bruce is traveling all over the world to figure out if his baby boy might be back from the dead.

Lowkey sad that Jason doesn't have the skunk stripe. I know it was fanon that occasionally became canon, but I still like it.

Wow, this Robin!Jason flashback is really giving us good views of the scaly panties, >:P

So, during the flashback, Bruce brings up the idea that Jason has a "mean streak" in comparison to how Dick was. But it's not that Jason was "mean" and Dick "nice"--Dick has a massive temper, even if canon rarely allows him to acknowledge it--but with Dick... Everytime he was Robin, I think he was still in the mindset of "performer". There was a bit more disconnect between him and the criminals of Gotham, because the fights were more like acts. Jason performs too, but he's very personal about it. This is his city, he's taking all these crimes personally and even when he's "performing" it's still Jason Todd, while Dick's Robin is more so a mask. IDK, this is just the vibes I'm picking up.

I really love the panels after Jason blows up the meth lab. The way the colors are... it makes Jason almost look like he's teared up? It's beautiful.

Oh great, Slade's here. No wonder this things so damn long

You know what, Slade? I'm on Black Mask's side here. A nazi and a hyena man? You can find better hired help on Craigslist.

Just finished the fight, and I'm STILL on Black Mask's side. Slade, who the fuck are these losers!?

Yes, Jason baby, kill the nazi!

Jason got them Christmas presents! That's sweet!

Slade, why the FUCK were you here? Did you see Nightwing was in town and go "lol, this'll be funny"?

Black Mask really calling himself Daddy around Jason... wasn't a joke. Huh.

There are some very nice parallels after Jason reveals his identity to Bruce. Bruce was too late to stop Joker's bomb, he was too late to stop the bomb in the meth lab. Bruce was too late to stop his son from getting attacked by a supervillain, but Bruce was faster now, good job! And Bruce never killed his son's killer, and he won't kill Stephanie's killer either. It's like he keeps testing Bruce to see if he really has to go through with his plan with the Joker.

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if Jason's entire beef with Black Mask was because of his part in Stephanie Brown's death.

...I don't really like the idea of Jason calling himself a zombie after Joker did it.

Jason wiped the smile off his face, goddamn! (And don't think I didn't notice how similar Joker and Jason's laughs are, comic artists. Sure, maybe that's just how cackling laughter was drawn back then, but in literature, that smells like foiling).

...THIS is when Bludhaven gets destroyed!? Really???

Also, what is this depiction of Bludhaven just... being across a river? This feels unreasonably close, why hasn't Gotham just eaten Bludhaven at this point?

IT'S A NUKE???

THEY ARE LOOKING DIRECTLY AT IT, HOW ARE THEIR EYES NOT GETTING BURNT OUT OF THEIR HEADS

I'm just realizing how many explosives there are in this series. Between the bombs the Bats use, and the bombs Jason sets up, and... what happened to bludhaven. That, kids, is what we call a theme!

Bruce really is sympathetic in this. It's subtle, which is good, I don't think anyone would have appreciated the author blaring out "BATMAN IS IN THE RIGHT, HE'S THE BEST GUY, FUCK JASON."

And Jason is getting more and more unhinged as the fight progresses.

You know, it's occurring to me that this all could have been prevented if New Jersey had the death penalty. There's no way Joker could have gotten the insanity plea so many times if they could put him in the ground for good.

...I wonder if Batman votes to reinstate the death penalty?

"But why... why on God's earth--??! Is he still alive!!??" Is just... such a good reveal. Such a good line. No wonder we're all so fixated on this character, omg.

Oh. This is why Jason thinks Batman doesn't love him.

It's the lack of reciprocation. Jason sees "killing the Joker after he killed you" as an act of love. Batman cannot provide that act, so Jason sees that refusal as proof he is unloved.

The funniest Joker's ever been:

Oh, the batarang moment. Oh no.

Oh no oh no oh no

I still feel like resurrection via Superboy punching the universe hard is still a cop-out reason why Jason's alive, but the line "Until time decided to set things right." is speaking to me.

Oh god, the buried alive scene is brutal.

Okay, so Jason came back fully sane, he definitely knew what he was doing breaking out of the coffin, but his injuries that were unhealed and getting hit by a fucking car are what caused his catatonic state. He didn't just wake up not all there, that happened because no one was looking out for him.

Okay, so 6 months dead, about a... year in a coma. It says a year for his time catatonic on the streets, then a year with Talia, still catatonic... that's three and a half years, Jason really started being the Red Hood... like what, a few weeks after he got tossed in the Pits?

...I thought the pits were green. They look gold in my version of these comics, is that normal?

EW, WHY'D SHE KISS HIM

Also, there was no brainwashing this boy, Talia literally just said "you remain avenged" and it sent Jason on this whole murder spiral, she didn't do shit

Except kiss him. which, EW

Alright, good night everybody!

[shyjusticewarrior]

Just got and started reading Under The Red Hood. I know, blasphemous that I haven't read it already as a Jason fan.

Here are some thoughts so far

Love that it basically starts with "Batman and Red Hood's drama would shock even the most hardened Gothamite"

The talk about Red Hood and Robin using talk as distraction reminds me of Nightwing 2021 annual, which makes me like that comic even more

Also, the foreshadowing of Bruce saying Red Hood uses talk as distraction and Dick saying the same about being Robin

Batman's first assessment of Red Hood being that he's smart >>>

I'm familiar with the parallel of Jason and Steph's deaths but I didn't realize Steph's death was actually brought up in UTRH

People who say "Mr. Freeze isn't really a bad guy" are wrong- I already had this stance but this book further solidifies it

How much fucking kryptonite is there? How many people have had this shit? No less than four batman rogues have had it: Hush had it and gave it to Poison Ivy, Black Mask had it and it was stolen by Red Hood

[casscainmainly]

Have you read the recent chapter of boy wonder? I feel like it ties nicely with what you were talking about recently like robin, the mantles relationship with poc and batman

Adding your second ask here: "And also robin as being able to be a symbol for the collective and community. Sorry for being so scatter brained I sent the other ask without completing my thoughts😭 I was really interested in how you'll react to the recent chapter and hearing your thoughts on it. I'm not really good at analysis but reading yours are always fun"

I'm really happy you sent this ask because I've been meaning to read The Boy Wonder for ages and I never got around to it, so this was the push I needed!

You're spot on that so much of issue #5 connects to what I was discussing in my Duke Thomas and the Robin Mantle post. In fact, Damian giving the R symbol to the would-be robber directly parallels Duke giving the symbol to Daryl:

The Boy Wonder #5 / Batman (2011) #45

In both, they view Robin as a connection to their families and to the wider Gotham community, as the grounds for both individual and societal change. And honestly this makes sense, given that Damian is the predecessor, both chronologically and spiritually, to Duke's Robin.

Damian as a character of color is fraught with difficulty. The set-up of his story invites a dichotomy between the evil, Asian, brown-skinned Talia and Ra's, and the kind and caring White Wayne family. Morrison's demonisation of Talia is symptomatic of this issue. This is something The Boy Wonder mentions, too; Ra's is aggrieved not only at Damian betraying him, but at Damian siding with a rich White man, the opposite of every ideal he was raised with.

But in The Boy Wonder and in canon, the dichotomy is not so simple. Boy Wonder has Damian acknowledge both his 'demon' and Bat sides, with the social movement aspect coming from his mother, not from Bruce. It's also important to anti-racist readings of his character, as well as a general understanding of Damian, that he did not need to learn compassion. He already had it - one of his earliest moments in Morrison's run is feeling devastated at failing to save Sasha. People saying Dick taught Damian to feel things are missing the point: Damian already felt things, and what he learned from Dick was how to process and use those feelings.

(It's also important that Damian's first Batman was Dick, the first Robin, and retroactively the first Robin of Colour.)

Damian as a character moves from the restricting, White-centric legacy of the Batman into the freeing, colourful legacy of Robin. Another parallel to Duke and We Are Robin:

The Boy Wonder #5 / We Are Robin #1

Robin has always stood for youth, but this notion of the future starts with Damian (as Bruce's heir) and flourishes in Duke (as one of Gotham's many heirs). They are the future, which means the future is a place of colour.

One thing I liked more in Boy Wonder than We Are Robin is that Damian starts the movement, whereas WAR has... Alfred (this is a bad move for many reasons but this post is too long already). Damian credits the core moral principle - wanting to change the world in a communal way - to Ra's and Talia, which shows that Damian's morals do not come from the Batfam. Once again, the Robin mantle is not only a connection to the Bat, but a connection to the wearer's original/other family, as it was for Dick and Duke.

In all three cases, the other family is a family of colour. This is why I think Dick works better when his Romani heritage is acknowledged; the Dick-Damian-Duke lineage is a nuanced exploration of the ways kids of Colour navigate the White world, in which Robin functions as a celebration of difference and a rebellion against assimilation. It's a progressive journey: Dick is White-passing and has mostly lost touch with his roots, Damian (ideally, when Talia is written right) equally loves both sides of his family, and Duke is unapologetically, unequivocally Black.

Which is why, though I enjoyed Boy Wonder overall, I'm extremely puzzled why Duke wasn't in it. Like, Damian just started We Are Robin!!! Why would you do WAR and not include WAR characters? Merle could've easily been Duke, and the comic would've been richer for it. (Also why is Babs here?? She says like two lines and is not part of the Robin legacy. Steph being Batgirl or Robin would've made more sense).

I can kind of understand Duke's omission (though this comic pulls so much from We Are Robin it feels like it owes Duke a cameo), but Dick's role was strangely small. It seems like Damian didn't start as Dick's Robin here, but that point is so essential to his character that once again I'm puzzled. There is so much more to be done with Dick, especially with the last issue being a meditation on the Robin legacy.

But it was still a fun read, and Damian is so adorable throughout I can't be mad at it. I hope this post makes up for how long it took me to get to this ask!!

[byghostface]

BATMAN AND ROBIN(2023) #10 SPOILERS

Does this mean after Lazarus planet Nika doesn't necessarily need to kill ppl to gain skills now? Her power is strong enough just has to hang around the hospital and dying folks to pick up some skills? (maybe this is what she meant by she wants to relax and wander around an old folk's home in #7?)

Does this mean when ppl are seriously dying she can sense their death too?? I can't wait for more stories to develop her powers omg (I could be wrong about all this and just thinking too hard on it😞)

Damian's compassion for the animals is so strong I love it sm

Nikola's Nika is sooo prettyy🥺🫶♥️ Damian is almost the same height with Nika now

He takes her hands in his and prepares for the farewell…

The way Nika looks at Damian and caresses his face, telling him it's good for him to have a normal school life…he leans into her hand…and Nika hugs him so tightly🥹😭🤍♥️♥️

She can see how good Damian is, and given enough time people would love him. She wants Damian not to give the girls any wrong ideas😭 (jealous and pinging Nika omfggg she adored him so so much)

AND THIS PART OWEEE NIKA WOULD RATHER TAKE THE BLAM/BURDEN ONTO HERSELF THAN SEEING THE PEOPLE SHE LOVE HURTING😭☹️☹️

The way she hastily ran away and held back her tears… I can’t take this anymore😭😭💔💔

(↑Batman and Robin #8 for vulnerable/angst Nika parallel☹️)

SHE CARES FOR DAMIAN SM SHE SAYS MORE THAN ANYONE WILL EVER UNDERSTAND😭😭♥️

She doesn't want anyone to get worried for her and always keeps herself cool and collected. Facing problems alone firsthand to protect her loved ones… even if it means disregarding her own feelings to do so… Nika my daughter I can't with you😭😭😭💔 (I fear that the confidence she has in herself will crumble one day😭😞😞)

This is so sweet☹️ Bruce had made dinner(vegetarian dishes) for them to enjoy the father and son time, and under the beautiful night sky view too (how I wish for Talia to see this…)

GOLIATHHH AND MAYAAA 😭😭😭 They still keep in touch omggg

So excited for them to come back but also Damian will have to face Bane…

I'm thinking Nika properly will be back in later issues with Ra's plotline after Damian deals with Bane about Alfred's death