#I know there's already been a lot of discussion and interpretation on this topic

[someone-else-entirely]

If there's one thing I'm gonna come away from this Passover with it's a new and enduring love for the wicked son

[genericpuff]

Hi, So one of my Characters was inspired by two goddess: Meilone and Despoina (Another Daughter of Demeter) and I've been trying to get more information on Despoina, I've used a Greek mythology site that I'm familiar with I even had some help from A.I search. Any tips?

Aahh, first tip, don't use AI ! At least in its current state, there's literally nothing it can factually offer you that normal Google searches can't. I know for some folks it's tempting because it kind of "summarizes" everything and makes the process of research a lot less intimidating, but the drawback to summarizing - especially through AI - is that it picks and chooses what information it thinks is helpful to you, not information that actually is accurate or true. And a lot of that information it presents to you is skimmed from other pre-existing sources that aren't necessarily accurate or true either - it skims from Reddit, Wikipedia, and other popular discussion sources to come up with an approximation of information, but approximations can and often are still made up of weak parts. Plus, at the end of the day, the AI is still pulling from things that exist, so even if it's telling you stuff that's factually true, it isn't anything you couldn't have found on your own.

The reason you're struggling to pull up anything on Despoina is because "Despoina" doesn't really exist, at least not as some concrete deity the same way Zeus and Demeter do. "Despoina" only has a handful of sources mentioning her, and a good chunk of them refer to her not as Demeter's daughter, but as an epithet.

Understand that sometimes not finding enough information isn't a fault of our own for "not looking hard enough" - sometimes it's because that information just currently does not exist, especially when it comes to the matter of ancient cultural studies, where what's available is strictly limited to what we've discovered and what's been made publicly accessible. In those situations, you really just gotta work with what you've got, and do your best in digging up information outside of the most popular sources, because you never know what you could be missing out on simply because Google decided not to show you.

I'm gonna go on one of my classic tangents here but it's a topic that's very interesting to me! So I'm just gonna dive into it, but I'll include a jump for those who don't want this clogging up their feed :>

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When you really get into the meat of studying Greek mythology - or really any cultural mythology - it's unfortunately not as cut and dry as reading up on lore or skimming a Wikipedia page. There are thousands of years of cultural interaction, trading of oral stories, re-interpretations through cultural adoption and/or colonization, political satirizing and/or re-tooling to suit specific sociopolitical views, and religious influence at play (among MANY other influences) which make up what we now understand as "Greek mythology" in its simplest terms.

Much of what we still study today is debatable as to what is truly "Greek", because of all the cultural mixing that was happening between the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Africans, etc. that resulted not only in its adopters creating new versions of older Greek stories, but "Greek myth" in and of itself being influenced by the societies that came before it. I've mentioned this before, but even Homer is a hot topic of debate, mostly discussing whether or not he was a real person, or if - like Despoina - the name "Homer" is just an epithet to refer to one or more poets whose works were preserved as culturally relevant interpretations of the stories and beliefs that were being passed around at that time. These are what make up the Homeric Hymns, but think about this - those hymns were in and of themselves retellings. Homer - whether one tangible person or many ambiguous voices as a collective - was simply putting stories that were already being told orally to paper, from their own perspective, which we managed to uncover and preserve over the course of thousands of years, during which we would continue to re-interpret it based on new translations and discoveries that would shift our context of knowledge.

With all that in mind, now think of all the stories that were lost, either because modern scholars haven't uncovered them, or because Homer just never thought to include them, or possibly didn't know of them himself. Think of all the stories that we assume to be true which could have had entirely different meanings when told as bedtime stories over the fire, or as epics of war to inspire soldiers, or as romantic poems sung to an audience.

I know everything I just said is a lot and is, in and of itself, wholly interpretive and subjective. But think about all that, and then understand why I'm so wary about using AI to do the work of the analysis for you. Not only does it remove so much necessary context from discussion that's already missing context in many areas, it undercuts the joy of discovery.

All that said, Despoina is, as far as we currently know, theorized to be one of two things:

1.) A daughter of Demeter who may or may not have been born during The Hymn to Demeter, who was worshipped as a deity within the Eleusinian Mysteries but - due to her nature as a deity of a secretive cult - does not have much evidence to support what she could have been specifically worshipped for, as her worshippers were sworn to secrecy. "Despoina" may not have even been her real name, just a name used to refer to her among cultists or anyone who wasn't a part of the congregation to ensure her true name was protected (similarly to Kore and Persephone, she could be a deity with "two names" that serve two different purposes and interpretations).

2.) An epithet, meaning "mistress", to refer to one or several different women, usually fertility goddesses, including Demeter, Persephone, and even Aphrodite and Hecate. This doesn't necessarily mean that "Despoina" as a goddess didn't exist, just that the word "Despoina" can also be used to refer to goddesses within the cult to keep their names a secret. And if Despoina did exist as her own deity... again, we don't know her true name, just the title that was used to refer to her, whoever "she" was.

The thing is, there is tangible material that supports either or both arguments. And even if more evidence came out to support one over the other, it doesn't invalidate either of them - this is just how it is with mythologies and religion, different cultures and tribes and groups would hold different beliefs, and the beliefs that reign supreme are often determined by the highest power. This is obviously why so many Roman interpretations of the Greek gods are now the "default" interpretations, because Rome was a very powerful empire that had the ability to absorb other mythologies, create their own adaptions of them, and then enforce them as the natural order. The popularity of Catholicism as an organized religion is owed to the Roman Empire, and even it still has its divided subgroups who have separated from the main doctrines of Catholicism due to having different beliefs.

Even think of the Bible, which many people hold up as the "gold standard" despite never having even read it. They subsequently don't understand that what we know as "the Bible" is a curated library of works that were preserved over hundreds of years, first documenting the trials and tribulations of the Jews and the building of Israel, and eventually leading to Jesus Christ and his fellow fandom mutuals (the apostles) coming in and deciding "nah that Old Testament blows, let's make a new one! No more circumcisions! Bread and wine and bacon for everyone!" (<<< I am obviously paraphrasing here for the sake of efficiency and a little bit of levity lmao) This is why, to this day, we get so many people still arguing over whether or not Jesus hated gay people, because some point to specific scriptures written by apostles like Paul and Matthew, while others point to scriptures from the Old Testament which pre-existed Jesus by centuries.

As much as we may refer to a "canon" within Greek mythology, those commonly known facts are still based on previous interpretations that in and of themselves were constantly debated and fought over. People even went to literal war over this shit, because it turns out, human beings haven't really changed all that much - we're loyal to our most favorite fandoms, and crucify anyone who disagrees with our established canons. And none of that is to patronize the cultural, spiritual, and political importance of these stories - more so just to point out why it's so hard to track down clear cut information for certain myths, because how legitimate those myths even were within their own context and time is unsubstantiated and debatable.

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TL ; DR: If you're making characters inspired by an ambiguous deity who doesn't have a lot of evidence to support them, just do what you can to find the evidence that exists, and maintain your own level of understanding and transparency that you can't possibly accurately depict a character who's either directly based off a Greek myth deity or simply inspired by one when what is and isn't accurate is still often up for debate by people who are actually trained and paid to debate these things. On the one hand, it means someone will likely be bound to argue with your interpretation and it may leave you searching for ways to improve upon any misrepresentations; on the other, know that this is just passing on the torch of a tradition that has been practiced by humans ever since the first cave drawing and we are all, by and large, doing what we've always been naturals at doing - expressing our views and perspectives of the world that make sense to ourselves, and then getting yelled at when it doesn't make sense to others LMAO

Be earnest and humble in your attempts to tell a story that feels true to you, and remember that the process of discovery - the research - is half the journey, and half the fun :> Even if you get things wrong, be willing to take ownership of it and view it as an opportunity to learn even more. Therein lies the true joy of creating - the endless potential for discovery.

[mariamegale]

More clarification on Dybowski's position within Ice Pick Lodge today from IPL ex-employee Luchin, after yesterday's comments.

Sorry for posting so much in the patho tag, but unfortunately it's what's best for visibility. I have, and will be, using the "Dybowski Allegations" tag for any post on this, so please block that tag if you don't want to see it.

Since my post yesterday on Alexey Luchin's comments/allegations against Dybowski, he has given Reddit some updates and clarifications. I'll summarise the Reddit thread, but quote Luchin in full for transparency.

The thread is on the topic of Dybowski's current involvement with IPL/Pathologic 3. Commenters stated that he has sold the company, and hasn't been very involved with the games since The Void (2008). Whether this is a valid interpretation of Luchin's earlier statements was discussed, and the fact that he's been a main P2 writer and involved with a lot of promo stuff over the years was brought up. Luchin, after being pinged, showed up to clarify:

Russian companies often use a "fake owner" for various reasons, this is the case here. Motivations may be to avoid alimony, to ease money transfers between the main company part in Kazakhstan and the original main company and it's Cyprus subordinary. It is not illegal, and even not a loophole, though. I wouldn't dwell on that much. It's important what people work in the studio factually.

and,

Yep, I'd say it's up to the currently employed to shed light reliably. But in general around after the Void he was more of an broad ideas guy — and a good one, it wasn't my intent to downplay him in that regard. At the same time, game development is a multistage process, and from my personal knowledge, I can attribute a lot of the new games qualities to "fresh blood", and the other co-founders acting more professional. E.g. Alphyna has covered a decent chunk of actual writing on Pathologic 2 and had a pivotal role in maintaining the timeline of events of the game, charater motivations, etc together. Ivan Slovtsov carried the detailed game design and balancing with his team — which gave him a good position in tinyBuild after, etc. IPL is to some extent an autere game company, with the source and numerous modifications coming from Nikolay, but in my time his input was irregural, disrupting, and in my personal opinion wasn't often for the good of the game. At the same time, the fresh blood in the studio grew on the principles on which the studio was founded and successfully carries its legacy already. This is an opinion, though, still. Personally, I'll still play Pathologic 3, it's great, from what I know / have seen. And all my posts here are done with a heavy heart — it's not easy to be dissapointed in a talanted figure such as Dybowsky myself.

So, based on this (keep in mind Luchin himself has stated to have no contact with Dybowski himself since 2018, although it feels fair to assume he'd still be in contact with other former coworkers) the exact role of Dybowski in the creation of these games seems a little unclear. But I also don't think anyone's been debating whether he's been involved up until p3, as much as how deeply involved he is in p3.

Ultimately, it's up to everyone to decide for themselves where they stand in terms of opinion on p3, buying the game, sticking around in the fandom, supporting the studio, et cetera., but that's the new info.

To just give my own personal two cents: I am still in the position I was yesterday, which is that I believe IPL has to make a statement on all of this, and cut ties with Dybowski, before I'll be completely comfortable giving them money. However, I do also want to acknowledge the fact that this is not a black and white situation, and that the discourse surrounding this does warrant some level of nuance. I'm, of course, speaking in relation to the other people working at IPL.

It's incredibly easy to say both, "Dybowski is not his team; they should never be punished for his actions," and "they may have helped cover for him for twenty years; they should be held responsible." Silence is, to a degree, complicity, and if Luchin is to be believed not just in his "open secret" statement but also here, in reference to the student grooming allegations:

That's the Nema-Soda episode around the same time previous accusations surfaced. Well known in the Russian segment of the internet.

That's bad. If this truly has been this out in the open and known, that's really fucking bad, and I want this company - at least its management - to be held responsible for their potential silence and complicity in this.

But, at risk of sounding like I'm excusing any of this, I do also want to remind you that according to Luchin, as well as earlier testimonies including Renata's, this is also a person who is apparently incredibly vindictive. He is also pretty rich by Russian standards, and has held some level of influence in academia and the Russian game dev community for many years. I don't know exactly how his vindictiveness would take its form, especially not against employees, but I've been in toxic workplaces before - it can be scary, downright terrifying, to go after or even up against someone like this. No matter how shitty they are, especially if you're not in a country with good whistleblower laws (and just, in general, a system which will take the original allegations seriously, which... I'm not Russian, but I'm allowing myself some possibly problematic doubt that you'd be able to comfortably know that. I come from a significantly more progressive country, and I would absolutely not take it for certain) it can be incredibly difficult to stand up for what's right and take that risk to your livelihood, safety, and future job prospects. Especially in a job market so (relatively) niche as Russian game development. I'm also pretty damn sure there's not a union, or anything like it, to back you up if you get inofficially retaliated against.

Human being end up in abusive situations and find themselves, for one reason or another, not doing anything about it all the time. SA victims don't always report their perpetrator. Fraud victims don't always come forward. People subjected to wage theft don't always call their union reps. And others, those who witness it, don't always do it either. Sometimes because it's not their place, sometimes because they don't care, and sometimes because they're afraid. I don't think it's fair to assume everyone is in the second category, just as how I wouldn't think it's fair to assume everyone is in any of the others - it'd be absurd to assume every IPL worker doesn't want to out someone else's victimhood, which is why they haven't said anything publicly, for example. However, not reporting is an incredibly common blame to put on a victim or witness, because it's assumed that by not reporting it, they're essentially enabling the perpetrator to do it again. And I personally just don't think that's just - not without knowing what else weighed into a person's decision not to speak up.

I'm not saying this absolves all of IPL. I especially don't think it absolves the people at the top with Dybowski, who would have been more protected than the bottom-line workers. I simply am asking for some honest-to-god nuance. Personally, I'm still not happy to give IPL any money - not until I know Dybowski is not getting any of it, and measures have been taken to protect their other employees. But I'm also not interested in broad brushing an entire company of twenty years as evil, because the employees haven't made (english) publically available attempts at getting this guy out. We know, by his own accord, Luchin didn't - we know nothing of the others. A conversation with a manager that went badly is not likely to become public knowledge. People lamenting their powerlessness to stop someone to their colleagues or friends won't reach us. Someone quietly resigning because they can't do this anymore, but not being willing to put themselves on the line, is not a detail we're going to have.

I'm happy the silence has, hopefully irrevocably and undeniably, been broken. I'm hoping some people, Dybowski in particular, will face justice, or at least consequences. I hope Renata and her son, as well as Dybowski's other children, are safe and happy. I hope that IPL will do something, and move forward as a better company.

I want them to make a statement about this. That's non-negiotiable, for me, personally. I also want to see a change, and a better company with a better work culture going forward, making games and nurturing a community safely away from all this shit.

However, I accept the grim possibility that this will never happen, and am trying to decide on what that means for me personally moving forward with the fandom. I don't have any moral qualms about piracy, that's not what this is about. And that's the wider conversation I think I personally will need more, moving forward, in regards to my relationship with Pathologic.

That's my two cents.

[lovetaroandtaemin]

Kinktober 2024

Day 19: Cucking

Kim Hongjoong x Reader x Song Mingi Word Count: 2,154 THIS FIC IS NSFW, MINORS DNI!!! Warnings: Dom!Hongjoong x sub!Reader x sub!Mingi, Voyeurism and exhibitionism, masturbation, boob play, unprotected sex, implied round 2. A/N: If you would like to be added to my Kinktober taglist, you can send an ask, send a dm, or comment on any of my Kinktober-related posts with the username that you'd like tagged. Happy reading!

Taglist: @unlikelysublimekryptonite

Fic is under the cut.

You and Hongjoong sat together in the dorm’s living room, drinking wine and discussing your kinks. The rest of Ateez was out of the house, and you were grateful for the alone time with him to just hang out and talk. While you weren’t entirely sure when the topic of conversation shifted, you weren’t really upset about the change. You’d been dating Hongjoong for a while, but you still didn’t know much about what he did and didn’t like in bed. You had expected a bit more preparation before that particular conversation happened, but you’d be lying if you said that it wasn’t fun to just talk about it with no added anxiety or pressure.

“Alright, there’s one other thing I haven’t told you about,” Hongjoong said, “You have to promise you won’t judge me, though.”

“I promise, honey. What is it?”

“Cuckoldry.”

You were quiet for a minute, processing the new information. While you hadn’t tried anything like it before, you certainly were willing to give it a shot. Hongjoong interpreted your quietness as discomfort, though, quickly adding, “I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to-”

“No, no, no, it’s ok. I was just surprised. I’m down to try it as long as you’re sure you want to.”

“Really?”

“Yeah, why not?” you asked with a smile.

Before the two of you could discuss further, however, Mingi stumbled through the door. He saw you and smiled, asking you how your day went. Whether it was the alcohol in your system or the way he smiled at you, you weren’t entirely sure, but you felt butterflies in your stomach. You loved Hongjoong dearly, but you’d be lying if you said that you didn’t think that Mingi was sexy. You briefly considered asking Hongjoong if he would be willing to indulge his newly revealed kink by watching you fuck Mingi, but you were hesitant. What if it ruined their friendship? What if it ruined your relationship?

You were snapped out of your thoughts by Mingi saying, “Hello, Earth to (Y/N).”

“Sorry, what was that?”

“How was your day?”

“Oh, it was good. Thanks.”

“Are you ok, baby?” Hongjoong asked.

“I’m ok, I promise,” you said, “Just a bit tired. Can we go to your room?”

“Sure baby. Good night Mingi.”

“Good night!”

Mingi could tell from the way that you acted around him that you liked him. While he would never come between you and Hongjoong, he had to admit that he found himself thinking about you a lot. Most of the time those thoughts were innocent, sure, but there were also a lot of times that they weren’t. This was one of those times that they weren’t. He considered dealing with the growing ache between his legs before he went to sleep, but he decided against it. He was too tired. Besides, he didn’t want to risk you or Hongjoong hearing him.

Hongjoong could tell from the way that Mingi looked at you that he liked you. Maybe it was the fact that he was tipsy and not thinking clearly, but he was certain that he saw you looking at Mingi the same way. He considered asking you about it once you were in his room, but before he could, you were out like a light. So, he decided to ask you about it another time instead. If he was right about your attraction to Mingi, and Mingi’s attraction to you, he wanted to ask both of you about trying out one of his biggest fantasies.

The next day, Hongjoong had the perfect opportunity to find out if his suspicions were correct. All of Ateez had a rare day off, and most of the group already had plans outside of the dorms. Wooyoung, San, and Yeosang had made plans to go to an arcade and were getting ready to leave. Seonghwa, Jongho, and Yunho had already left to go shopping and see a movie. That left you, Hongjoong, and Mingi at the dorms.

You and Hongjoong sat in the kitchen together, eating breakfast. After he finished, he asked, “Would you and Mingi be willing to talk about something with me?”

A million thoughts and anxieties ran through your head. For a moment, you wondered if he had noticed the way you sometimes stared at Mingi. Before you could panic too much, though, you took a deep breath and said, “Yeah, of course.”

“I’m gonna go get Mingi, ok?”

“Ok. I love you.”

“I love you too.”

When Hongjoong came back to the kitchen a few minutes later, with Mingi behind him, they both looked just as nervous as you felt. Hongjoong looked like he was about to do something he would regret, and Mingi looked like he’d gotten caught doing something that he shouldn’t have. You couldn’t help but wonder what had happened, as well as what was about to happen. You didn’t have to wonder for long, though, because Hongjoong said, “Tell (Y/N) what you were doing, Mingi.” The man in question mumbled something that you couldn’t quite make out, and Hongjoong said, “Speak up.” Mingi was completely silent this time, so your boyfriend turned to you and said, “He was moaning your name while he jerked off.”

“Shock” was not a strong enough word to describe how you were feeling. You had no idea how to respond to the new information, so you stayed silent. In fact, everyone was silent until Mingi looked at Hongjoong and said, “I’m sorry. I didn’t mean for you to see or hear that. I thought that-”

“Be quiet,” Hongjoong said. “I’m not mad, I just had an idea that I wanted to talk to the two of you about. I was hesitant at first, but now I know that there might actually be some interest. What would you two say to indulging a certain fantasy of mine?”

You knew immediately what Hongjoong was referring to, but Mingi looked incredibly confused. So, you said, “He’s asking if you would be ok with him watching us fuck.”

“Oh, wow, ok. That is not what I was expecting,” Mingi said.

“If you don’t want to, we can pretend this conversation never happened,” Hongjoong said.

“No, it’s not that. It’s just, are you sure?” Mingi asked.

“I’m sure,” Hongjoong replied.

“I guess we could give it a shot,” you said.

“Yeah, I mean as long as you’re sure, I’m down,” Mingi added.

“I’m going to clean up the breakfast mess. I want both of you to go to my room now. I also want both of you naked when I get there.” Hongjoong instructed, leaving no room for either of you to argue.

You and Mingi both went to Hongjoong’s room, nervous and excited for what was to come. You took a deep breath before you removed the pajamas you’d worn to bed the night before, while Mingi removed his own. Then, you sat on Hongjoong’s bed and waited for him to come in.

It felt like hours had passed before Hongjoong finally came in, though it was probably only a few minutes. When he saw you and Mingi sitting on his bed, completely bare and waiting for his next instructions, he had to admit that it greatly boosted his ego. He looked at Mingi and said, “First, ground rules. No marking of any kind, no tongue kissing, and absolutely no cumming inside her. Understood?”

“Understood,” Mingi said.

Hongjoong turned to you and said, “Do you understand, baby?” You nodded, and he said, “Good. You two can start whenever you’re ready."

Mingi hesitantly cupped your face in his hands and kissed you. When he felt your lips on his, though, all of the nerves he was feeling went away. He pulled away to check your face for signs of discomfort, and when he found none, he smiled and went back to kissing you.

Once the initial nervousness wore off, you found yourself melting into Mingi’s touch. You were so lost in the way his lips felt, you almost didn’t notice the sounds of something scraping against the floor. When you pulled away to see what it was, you found Hongjoong moving a chair closer to the bed. Once the chair was where he wanted it, he sat down.

You wanted to say something to Hongjoong, but your focus was quickly brought back to Mingi when he pinned you to the bed and kissed your neck before making his way down to your chest. As he sucked on your sensitive nipple, a loud moan left your lips. The tent in Hongjoong’s pants only got more noticeable as he watched the two of you. He hated to admit it, but he was already struggling to control himself.

Mingi continued to kiss and touch your breasts until you felt like you were going to explode. When you found yourself unable to take it anymore, you said, “Please just fuck me already.”

Mingi lifted his head from your chest and said, “Gladly, princess.” As he aligned his tip with your entrance, he found himself hesitating. He had thought about this moment for so long, but now that it was happening, he was unsure.

Hongjoong must have noticed Mingi’s hesitation, because he said, “Go ahead.”

Mingi didn’t need to be told twice after that, slowly moving his hips forward. When you gave the ok to start thrusting in and out, however, he showed much less restraint. At first, you tried to hold back your moans. Then you heard your boyfriend say, “Don’t be shy, baby. Let Mingi hear you the way I get to,” and you couldn’t hold back anymore.

Once Mingi started fucking you, it didn’t take long for Hongjoong to discard his pants and boxers. As he watched the two of you, he started slowly stroking his cock, significantly more turned on than he originally thought he would be. He kind of wished that he was the one fucking you, but the sight of you so fucked out as Mingi thrusted in and out of you was something that he found himself really enjoying.

Mingi was amazed by how good you felt and how sexy you looked. He’d definitely fantasized about fucking you before, but none of his fantasies could compare to actually doing it. He knew then that he was going to struggle to last, especially since he’d already been so close to an orgasm before Hongjoong walked in on him.

The sight of your boyfriend jerking off while you got railed turned you on much more than you originally expected. When Hongjoong first asked you and Mingi about indulging this specific fantasy, you thought that you’d try it out but not actually go anywhere with it. When you heard the way Hongjoong moaned as he stroked his cock, however, you found yourself determined to give him a show. And that was exactly what you did.

You begged Mingi to fuck you harder, and he happily obliged. Loud moans fell from your lips as Mingi pounded into you, and he found it difficult to contain himself, to say the least. Especially when you brought your hand down to your pussy, playing with your clit in a desperate attempt to reach your high faster.

It didn’t take long at all for Mingi’s orgasm to approach. It still took longer than he thought it would, however, so he was grateful that he at least lasted for a little while. He warned you that he was close, and before you could even process his words he was pulling out, cum hitting your stomach as his climax washed over him.

Once Mingi came down from his high, he noticed you rubbing your clit faster, desperate to cum. Once he caught his breath, he replaced your hand with his own, kissing your neck as he played with your clit. Turns out, his mouth on you was all you needed, and you came with a series of moans and expletives leaving your mouth.

As you came down from your high, you felt Mingi pull away and leave the room. When he came back, you saw a wet cloth in his hand. He smiled when he saw how fucked out you were, and he started wiping the cum off of you. Once he was sure he had wiped everything away, he climbed back into bed and held you until he heard Hongjoong clear his throat. When he was sure you were ok, he stood up and got dressed, leaving you alone with Hongjoong once again.

Hongjoong smiled and got into bed with you, holding you close. You kissed him, and he groaned softly. That was when you remembered that he hadn’t finished yet. The idea of getting fucked by two different people in one day shouldn’t have turned you on, but it did. When you pulled away from the kiss, you leaned closer to his ear and whispered, “It’s your turn now, baby.”

God, you were insatiable, but Hongjoong loved it.

Thank you for reading! If you'd like to see what else I've written so far and the rest of what's planned, you can find my Kinktober masterlist here. If you'd like to read one of my non-Kinktober works, you can find my general masterlist here. If you'd like to see what I'm going to be working on once Kinktober is over, you can find my upcoming works here. If none of that interests you, or there's something specific you'd like to see, send a request via asks or dms!

Thank you again for reading, happy spooky season!

[dotthings]

Let me make this even clearer. Because Jensen and Misha both deserve better.

Given that we know they talk a lot about Destiel among themselves. They have told us, repeatedly. They've shared each other's perspectives with each other. They have an understanding.

Early misunderstandings and conflicts in pov aside (and do people want to keep circle jerking as if it's still 2014? Okay then. Have at it, but time moved on and you didn't): Jensen doesn't speak over Misha. Misha doesn't speak over Jensen.

Some things Misha has said about Dean or Destiel has resulted in Jensen stans attacking him. They always have some excuse--this past weekend it was because Misha acknowledged the idea of Dean and Cas having sex.

In the past, another example, backlash came at Misha for saying Cas saw love and acceptance in Dean's eyes.

(Which...sure does seem like the pearl-clutching about Misha's CR8 comments being too ribald is fake virtue signaling doesn't it, since even a statement from Misha wide open to platonic or romantic reading, that is 100% true about Dean, and how loving he is, how loving we know Dean is, how much we know Dean is going to accept and love Cas either way, got hatred aimed at Misha as if he had said something heinous. Tells me all I need to know about certain stans).

While Jensen's "Cas is an angel therefore his love is cosmic and unknowable impossible for humans to grasp let's not define it" and "open to interpretation" middleground to appease both sides and treading carefully for reasons, on a topic that's napalm in fandom (it shouldn't be, but that's the reality), might be construed as speaking over Misha.

But here's the thing!!! It's not!! From either of them!!

It seems very obvious by now that they decided Misha would be the loud one, with Jensen holding his cape, even if he doesn't join in , and Jensen walking a diplomatic middle line, also with Misha's understanding and support in turn.

When Misha goes off boldly about Destiel? People need to kick out that hate fantasy about Jensen being disrespected and Jensen must be wanting to punch Misha and Jensen must be so mad at Misha how dare Misha out of their heads, or get to the point where they can comprehend the difference between their own feelings vs Jensen's and quit projecting.

They didn't shut each other out. They talked about Destiel. They listened to each other. Highly likely, in fact, that they helped each develop or refine their talking points.

Neither of them has been shooting off their mouth about the other's character without having spoken to each other.

I don't have any hope for fans to stop the endless fighting and concern trolling and attacking either Jensen or Misha over it, needlessly, perpetually, but when it comes to Jensen and Misha...that's a hopeful space.

Misha's bluntness vs Jensen's carefully chosen middleground words complement each other are not in fact oppositional takes--they complement each other, there's room for both. They both know it's a mutually loving relationship.

Neither is trampling on the other's pov, and any views that don't perfectly align, they've already discussed and they respect each other.

These accusations at either of them are not true, they are not fair, and they both deserve better.

And now I'm staring right at a recent thing where Misha full on absolved Jensen of an accusation that various lanes kept throwing at him, and still weaponize, including Jensen stans who claim to be defending Jensen, because they want it to be true.

The response was manufactured drama where people called Misha a liar and doubling down.

They'd rather Jensen take the fall and they'd rather call Misha a liar than believe a soulless corporation that has been caught more than once exercising queer censorship could have committed queer censorship in a TV industry where it's common knowledge that queer censorship by broadcast TV networks happen???????

Wow gee can you feel the love in this Chili's. Great going. Excellent defense strategy. You're really such a big help. With fans like these, Jensen and Misha don't need antis.

A lot of it is agenda driven, and some anxiety driven, every lane's worried about other lanes react, because spn fandom is always a pain in the neck that way. Some people hate Destiel so much they need Jensen to be their antidestiel warrior they'll throw Jensen under a bus and stan for the corporation, or they're so anxious about how Destiel gets treated they blame Jensen and forever hold against him his past foot in mouth about the ship (which was a long time ago. Please stop punishing him endlessly when he's moved on and his perspectives are respectful, yet you're still stuck back there) rather than comprehending the actual systemic factors.

Jensen and Misha are both doing what they can to make it better.

They are trying to fix it!!!

People should show them more respect!!!!

[stormblessed95]

Hi!

Ok, so I just rewrote everything I wanted to discuss regarding the new video of Jimin working on MUSE, WHO, and SGMB as I felt it’d be easier than sending multiple asks with my questions!

I wanted to know what your thoughts were about the video and album overall, as well as with these parts where Jimin goes into detail a little more about two of the songs’ concepts.

I’m confused if the album as a whole is conceptual, or just the tracks Jimin wrote and WHO is the truth. Is this album about finding love or Jimin’s inspiration and creative process?

And what does that mean in terms for Jimn and Jikook?

I know people (antis) are going on about pronouns, but honestly I already think Jimin is queer or bisexual, so writing a love song about a woman or with female pronouns doesn’t negate that (especially since we’ve seen a version where the lyrics were gender neutral). Until Jimin outright says he has never and will never have romantic feelings towards a man, I’m under the assumption that he may be bisexual (regardless of if he wants a male or female partner).

However Jimin talking about looking for love and not experiencing that, does make me question Jikook if this album is supposed to be speaking from Jimin’s personal experiences and/or thoughts.

I included the parts of dialogue (sorry if I missed something 😅) that lead to these thoughts and/or questions, and it would be wonderful if you could help explain it more, or at least your thoughts on it. I know you’re not Jimin nor did you work with him on MUSE, so obviously you don’t know exactly what it means or conveys.

I’m not taking your word as the truth either, this isn’t the cult lol, just that there’s been many times where your posts help me with the understanding of topics: BTS, Jimin, JK, Jikook, ect!

And of course whatever Jimin says matters more to me!

Thanks Storm! 💜

While working on WHO

JM: This album has a lot of cheerful songs. But I wanted to try a different approach for just the title track. There will be a lot of fun songs.

JM: It was harder to write the lyrics this time. I had to pretend to go through experiences I haven’t had before. I’ll explain it one by one in more detail later.

JB (Jon): *interpreting Jimin’s ideas* I’d like to fall in love. I wanna, I’ll do what it takes to fall in love. I still don’t feel it, so what is my heart waiting for?

JM (Through the Translator): It’s just a bit sentimental, so it doesn’t get too intense like, “Where is she?” It doesn’t get too depressing.

JM: It’s not supposed to be sad or anything.

Translator: He’s not like, not too deep into it. He’s like “this is what I’m feeling right now”.

JM: It’s kind of embarrassing to explain emotions. It feels like someone found my diary.

Translator: Thank you for explaining everything so honestly.

JM: My ears are red. *touches ears*

JM: I’ve poured all my emotions into this, so I was very embarrassed just now. Even though they just wanted to ask about the story I wanted to tell. It’s just, everyone…. *laughs*

JM: Everyone’s just living alone, right? That’s what it is.

Working on SGMB

Producer: If the album is going to be all about expressing the process, we could just go all out conceptual.

Producer: I thought we could do a story with a specific concept, and I thought it’d be great if we chose a name for a band.

Producer: For those who aren’t able to express their love themselves, we’ll express it for them. That’s the kind of band we are. That’s the kind of concept we’ll have.

Loco: I’d never heard of a “smeraldo” before, so I looked it up. It’s a flower, I saw its meaning in the language of flowers. One of the related search terms was BTS. So there was some kind of a connection. So I thought, “Wow, I should come today to hear the explanation”. I found it really interesting, that’s why.

Loco: How do we express the true feelings of someone who couldn’t express it themselves?

Producer: Yeah that’s it.

Loco: This is how we should try to think about it.

JM: I thought of you while making this song….

Loco: It’s so good.

JM: Thank you.

Anon wrote an essay, but I want everyone to know and appreciate how well worded and kind this was. This is a request. An ask. This is a "I have these thoughts, opinions and concerns. I'm really curious about how you also feel about this, could you please let me know. Thanks" and not the rude demands, belligerent asks and the homophobia I got about this same topic from SO MANY OTHERS. So just before anything else, thank you anon, for being a kind human being in interacting with me. I hope you enjoy the random gifs throughout this post 💜

Let's take it bit by bit?

I wanted to know what your thoughts were about the video and album overall, as well as with these parts where Jimin goes into detail a little more about two of the songs’ concepts.

When I made my posts about Muse as an album in its entirety, it was technically before this video, but nothing said in that behinds video changed any of my thoughts. MMM gave us enough of an insight already that nothing else really surprised me from what he said, if that makes sense. Other than seeing the original lyrics were gender neutral. While not a surprise per say, that definitely wasn't indicated anywhere before. Idk if you saw my thoughts, opinions and theories over Muse already, but if not, please read that post here:

My thoughts over Who, which I posted just before answering this:

And then the other main posts I have where I talked about Muse, Rebirth and SMGB can be found in the last 9 posts linked here:

I’m confused if the album as a whole is conceptual, or just the tracks Jimin wrote and WHO is the truth. Is this album about finding love or Jimin’s inspiration and creative process?

Personally I believe that the album as a whole is conceptual. Jimin pretty much stated that it was in MMM. Conceptual doesn't mean falsehoods though either. I mention this in further detail in my muse post above as well. So really, please do go read that. I think that this is more about Jimin's inspiration and creative process. And it's about love. ❤️🥰 These things can coexist!

Pdogg even just recently said: "His previous album was designed to be deeply personal, but the new one is more abstract and isn’t strictly about Jimin alone. The whole thing’s also in line with what Millennials and Gen Z experience when they fall in love."

And what does that mean in terms for Jimn and Jikook?

Short answer: Nothing.

Longer answer: Still nothing. I know it's not really the answer you or probably anyone else or any of the antis who sent me asks about this topic, wanted. But it's the one I've got for you. As much as I thoroughly love and enjoy finding the Jikook coincidences and connections in everything. Istg I promise I do. I can be just as delulu as the rest of them. But it's really important that we ALL remember to see, recognize and enjoy their artistic integrity and messages without thinking it automatically has to do with each other or their relationship (whatever it may be, and yes this is still valid even if they are for sure dating each other romantically too).

Jimin talking about making an album that expresses the desire for love, feelings of crushes, wanting to be with the one, etc... doesn't actually mean that's the state of his current life. It doesn't even technically mean that's what he wants if he is single. I AM NOT SAYING THESE THINGS ARE TRUE OR EVEN WHAT I THINK. Just options, because we don't actually know anything about Jimin's life other than what he chooses to share. Personally, nothing he said in that behinds video, the MMM video or any other behinds content for Muse has made me rethink my Jikook opinions. But thats just me, and I don't blame anyone for ever changing their mind about anything. I just think years upon years of sharing things with us and behavior doesn't change based off him explaining the emotions and concept he is going for while working with other artists on his album.

I know people (antis) are going on about pronouns, but honestly I already think Jimin is queer or bisexual, so writing a love song about a woman or with female pronouns doesn’t negate that (especially since we’ve seen a version where the lyrics were gender neutral). Until Jimin outright says he has never and will never have romantic feelings towards a man, I’m under the assumption that he may be bisexual (regardless of if he wants a male or female partner).

I too, am under this impression and fully agree with you here. It's always nice when I agree with pieces of anon essays 🥰😄💜

However Jimin talking about looking for love and not experiencing that, does make me question Jikook if this album is supposed to be speaking from Jimin’s personal experiences and/or thoughts.

I included the parts of dialogue (sorry if I missed something 😅) that lead to these thoughts and/or questions, and it would be wonderful if you could help explain it more, or at least your thoughts on it. I know you’re not Jimin nor did you work with him on MUSE, so obviously you don’t know exactly what it means or conveys.

I’m not taking your word as the truth either, this isn’t the cult lol, just that there’s been many times where your posts help me with the understanding of topics: BTS, Jimin, JK, Jikook, ect!

Have you been following me for a while because that used to be something I said a lot on this blog. I appreciate you requesting a secondary opinion from someone whose opinions you generally trust (and I'm honored and touched that I am that person, thank you) while still making sure to form your own thoughts and opinions on things as well. Even if they end up different. That's really so important. 💜💜

Now I see where you (general you for the 80 asks I got about this topic) might be like but storm what about *insert all your above quotes here* I'm getting there! Also sorry, I'm not copy and posting all those quotes, this post is long enough as it is, but I super appreciate you taking the time to type them all out for me. I will preemptively add this one from the most recently weverse article though before someone else sends it to me in an ask lol:

"Then it goes into “Be Mine,” which takes the concept one step further, and is about an imaginary relationship. Our plan was to follow that song with the lead single and write it as a serenade, but Jimin was having trouble relating to it. He asked himself if he can ever really love someone, and that question led to the creation of “Who.” The album is about looking for some imaginary woman, but “Who” is about the reality of feeling lonely and melancholy, and asking yourself where the person for you is, which is why we made it the very last track."

From:

So let's just sort of break this down in general and all the quotes together if you don't mind.

1. Irregardless of a relationship with Jungkook, true or not. Jimin is an idol, he isn't going to be announcing a relationship until he is married. And maybe not even then if he keeps it under wraps until he is retired. And if he ever has to announce a relationship, it's never going to be through a love song and explaining he drew inspiration from a partner. It's always going to be "love, what's that?" "Oh we are all always single for now." "Haha oh armys are my girlfriend." And if he ever gets forced into admitting to and claiming a relationship, its going to come with an apology and an ask for understanding. Which really fucking sucks, but that's a different conversation entirely. And it's the reality that idols live with. Take it up with the industry and the fans.

2. If Jimin is queer, like you and I both suspect that he is, he is closeted. And will remain so probably until he is at least retired and/or maybe after that too. Hinting at, making vague remarks about it, etc, is not and never will be coming out. So all those points from #1 above, double it and count it worse for this one. If he is queer, Jimin will be sticking to that "what is love, I'm perpetually single" line all that much harder as a matter of safety probably. I mean and who knows, I'm not Jimin.

3. Jimin is working off a concept, a storyline and a following a major theme and plot that over arches through all his songs in order. He knows the emotions he wants to convey, he knows the general idea. Talking about that is and can be embarrassing. Like someone reading your diary. Lol

4. Taking it back to point 1 again, if Jimin is in a relationship, with regards to being an idol and am ultra world famous one at that, AND adding in the potential possibility of that being a queer relationship.... In what world do you think that the (hypothetical or otherwise) relationship would be one that went through any kind of normal courtship, confession, romance meet cute story? Lol for all we know, his experience with love and relationships look different than the story he was trying to tell, which was much more storybook idealistic. Or for all we know, he is single and just has hook ups and has never been in love. We don't know for sure, and that's okay. We aren't entitled to Jimin's private life.

5. In specific regards to "we are all living alone right" that one feels like explaining his album concept, not his life. To me at least. As was Loco talking about how to explain the feelings of someone who couldn't express it themselves, that was the literal concept of the song for SMGB.

And to conclude all my points above, in my personal OPINIONS, Jimin isn't going to share his love life in any type of way with his fans. He was preemptively apologizing for touching a female dancer to his fans. He knows his fans won't allow him the luxury of love. He knows he isn't allowed the luxury of queerness either, not from his country nor his fans for the most part either. The homophobia I get in my ask box is proof enough. I personally think everything Jimin and JK have said through the years and their actions throughout the years have shown me that there is probably something more leaning towards romantic attraction there, and I feel like it's very probably that they acted upon that. In a conventional way or not, who knows. Only jikook. But I don't think anything from these conversations has proven anything otherwise. But of course, anyone is free to disagree with that and think differently.

Sorry for the essay in response. Hope this all made sense and was clear. And that you found it helpful in some way anon. Thank you again for how you asked your questions and expressed yourself. It was great.

[anamericangirl]

Genuine question for. I'm a biologist and I saw your discourse with someone else over bible interpretations. Which, if you personally wanna use YOUR religion to dictate how YOU operate your life, totally fine. I absolutely respect that. But America is full of Diverse peoples with various religions and beliefs from the Indigenous Americans to the Settlers that consider themselves American to this day. So religion is a little wiggly with the idea of what you choose to apply of course.

Animals Self Abort ALL the time. Self Abortion has been around for millennia of course and I'm sure you already knew that. Animals are creatures of God. Sometimes animals self abort by natural processes such as Starvation or Hormonal triggers. Sometimes they intentionally consume toxic herbs that trigger the effects. It depends on species and global location of course. Genuinely: Do you apply the principle that Animals should not self abort at all while they are creatures made by God? Or how do you apply that if you apply that principle at all? Humans are also Animals. They are animalia (Your alternative option is you are either a plant, virus, fungus, or bacteria). Do Gods rules only apply to Humans despite them being Animals? Or are they the only exception upon which the Rules of the Bible should be applied?

Do you also believe that people of different religions and cultures or beliefs should subscribe to your ideas and beliefs? Or do you believe that they have their own liberties and autonomy? It would help me understand your arguments a lot better, I think.

Well first, the topic of discussion was not which religion should govern the rules on abortion, the topic was specifically what the Bible says about abortion. The op made an inaccurate claim about what the Bible and God say about abortion so we were discussing the Bible's stance on abortion. My arguments against abortion itself, however, are not religious in nature and I only discuss the religious and biblical perspectives on abortion if someone else brings them up first. If we were discussing what abortion laws should be and how we should handle it on a societal level I would not be using my religion as an argument.

Secondly, while humans are scientifically classified as animals we are also very different from the kind of animals you are referring to and I don't think anyone would argue that. Animals do a lot of things we as humans do not and consider wrong so the fact that animals do something is not an argument for humans also being permitted to do that thing. Animals also rape, kill and eat each other and that's considered normal behaviour for them but I would argue that it's unacceptable for humans to engage in such behaviour and I assume you agree with that. So just because we are scientifically classified as animals that doesn't mean we should be using the behaviour of animals as a guide for our own.

From a religious standpoint, since you asked, yes, God's rules only apply to humans because he gave them specifically to humans. God created humans in his image with a soul and we are not considered animals by God. God actually gave us dominion over the animals.

Animals don't have the ability to make moral judgments, people do. And we don't consider these things moral wrongs in the animal kingdom because we know all animals are capable of focusing on is their own survival. And if you really want me to get into the religious aspect of, all of creation was impacted by the fall. Even animal behaviour and relationships changed due to the original sin of man.

As for your last question, I do believe everyone should subscribe to my beliefs because they are correct and I want everyone to know and believe the truth and my religion is an evangelical religion but I believe that everyone has the freedom to believe whatever they want and they absolutely have their own liberties and autonomies and I don't believe in or agree with forcing anyone to adhere to particular religions.

When talking about abortion, though, I already mentioned my beliefs on how we should treat it as a society are not religious in nature. When you live in a society with other people there have to be common rules that are agreed upon and I think not killing each other is a staple rule that everyone should adhere to regardless of their religion. We already have laws against killing people, those laws just aren't applied to the unborn.

[dragomfry]

Discussion on Doumeki’s Current Treatment of Yashiro

(And what it means for the story’s mature themes + Tangent on Romance and BL as genres and how I interpret Saezuru)

This continues the conversation from @nanayashi-agenda’s reply. Thank you for replying, you’ve given me lots to think about. It seems my views on Doumeki’s treatment of Yashiro are similar to yours. Speaking to all: I’m always open to hearing the diverse opinions of others and broadening my own views, so please, keep giving your honest thoughts on the story and what it means to you. I think it’s wonderful that we can interpret this story in a multitude of ways; it’s what makes the story so compelling to me.

Disclaimer: I’m going to be very harsh on Doumeki in this post. In no way am I trying to take away from anyone’s enjoyment of the story, and if you interpret it differently than me, that’s cool! I’m just giving my opinions in this post, and we can agree or disagree. Please, if you’re sensitive to a harsh look at Doumeki’s actions or your reading of the story is more idealistic, I kindly suggest you move past this post. But if you’re open to a critical reading of Doumeki’s actions, this post has a ton of thoughts that I hope are interesting.

Just to be clear, I believe he’s a very well-written character, and I still like him. But he is very flawed, just like other characters. Even though I understand his actions, I don’t believe they are the most moral. Basically, this post analyzes and aims to understand the complicated why and how of Doumeki’s actions, and I give my opinions on them while being as understanding as possible.

TW for themes of sexual violence and abuse

Full disclosure: I am of the opinion that the first time they *made love was non-consensual and almost every sexual act Doumeki has made on Yashiro after the timeskip has been dub-con at best… and rape at worst.

I mentioned this before, but I think Yoneda-sensei is the only writer that can make me acknowledge the apparent toxicity of the relationship yet still have me actively wanting the characters to get married. Never before have I encountered a romance that is hindered by such realistic, unavoidable barriers and misunderstandings that it makes complete sense for both partners to act and feel in the controversial ways they do; therefore, the drama never feels unnecessary or gratuitous for the sake of the audience. Based on my interpretation, the slow burn and controversial drama exists because anything else to advance their relationship would be antithetical to their characters. And all while we understand the complex reasons for their actions, it seems Yoneda-sensei never attempts to romanticize the toxic behaviors, either. If there are any other stories or authors that do this, I wouldn’t mind some recommendations…

Sorry for the slightly related tangent in the next 4 paragraphs within the lines. You can just skip those if you want to jump right away into the topic of discussion. My thoughts overwhelm me a lot, too…

———————————————————————————

Ig there is quite a bit of context as to why I asked for your thoughts on this topic in the first place. This tangent is related to my general views about how I interpret Saezuru as a whole and what that means for this topic.

Let’s just say I was not all that interested in romance as a genre. I have nothing against romance (and I should probably read more of it to get a better idea on the genre as a whole), it’s just that I’ve always associated it with contemporary issues, not much conflict, and a predictable structure that typically ends happily with a stereotypically heterosexual couple getting together, which doesn’t interest me too much. Why read a romance when you already know how it ends? Rhetorical question, it’s the journey, but I like many of my journeys to have substantial bumps in it and at least some food for thought, yknow? Anyways, I didn’t think BL would interest me at all for a similar reason. Furthermore, I’ve heard many negative traits about the genre. That it romanticizes abuse, depicts gay people unrealistically, and is just gay porn with no substance. Also I heard rape was such a common backstory trope that it became banal… which is just awful to me, especially with how it mostly isn’t given the same sensitive treatment as I believe it is in Saezuru. Rape should never just be something to add to a story for worthless drama. With all this, it’s almost like BL would be anathema to me… until I found one that surprised me with its themes (which I’ll write a review for), and then found Saezuru. Saezuru is just different from the others (I sounded like Doumeki there, huh), and I believe it’s an anomaly in terms of the romance department and storytelling generally. I could quite literally talk about this series for hours and not get bored. Apologies, my blog is basically all those random thoughts… tl;dr: Saezuru seems to defy its genre conventions, critique them, or give a nuanced perspective on them, where others have failed to do so, which makes the story infinitely more interesting to me.

In terms of “ships,” I personally cannot ship anything unless there is substantial evidence in the canon to suggest the couple can exist realistically. Also, I try to look at characters as objectively as possible. I try to understand the characters for what they’re written as, not as my own interpretation or to reduce them to just a ship. This is why it’s so hard for me to read fan fiction. I can’t read or mentally accept stories of the characters when they don’t act like themselves.

So anyways, these views are why I can’t help but be critical of Doumeki’s actions and words towards Yashiro. I feel, in being able to view Doumeki as a sex offender and Yashiro as a victim, I can derive a more meaningful interpretation of Saezuru’s story and not have rose-tinted glasses when I pair the two together. I suppose we’ll have to see what Yoneda-sensei has in store for the ending to see if she really aligns with my interpretation of the story’s themes, but judging by how she’s managed to so delicately handle many of the controversial themes she presents (and how she clearly cares about her characters, how she handles rape, and how she wants to deliver a satisfying end to the story), I have reason to believe she could pull it off. I am cautiously optimistic.

Jeez I went overboard

———————————————————————————

After having binged all of Saezuru from chapters 1-58 in like a week, my thoughts were going haywire. The main thought on my mind though, was this: Why was Doumeki treating Yashiro so callously when he loves him and treated him so gently beforehand? Turns out, this is quite the loaded question, so I broke it down into 3 parts below.

I stumbled upon this old interview and was even more confused when I considered this quote from Yoneda-sensei:

When I was thinking about whom I should pair Yashiro with, this is the kind of character that turned out.

Doumeki is a character originating from Yashiro.

It's like he started functioning because Yashiro existed.

…So the two are literally made for each other, but now Doumeki is sexually abusing Yashiro? How can that be his ideal partner? Why can’t he just let the poor guy sleep??

Well, I reason that it’s because of the super complicated tangle of emotions and effects of the upbringings of Doumeki and Yashiro that this is their situation in the story. I also think Yoneda-sensei is giving some concrete commentary on rape culture.

I believe that Doumeki’s actions are based on a large mix of what you said.

Here are the questions I’m tackling:

Why does Doumeki treat Yashiro that way?

Why won’t Doumeki abide by Yashiro’s requests to not have sex?

Why hasn’t Doumeki questioned the morality of his actions?

1.) Why does Doumeki treat Yashiro that way?

The conversation with Nanahara and Doumeki’s takeaways are still very mysterious, but it’s undeniable that it influenced his views and behaviors towards Yashiro now. Sidenote: did we get to see Doumeki’s reply to Nanahara at the end of the extra yet?

I agree with your statement here:

he thinks that "kind" and gentle treatment is what made yashiro leave. doumeki's main concern now is not letting him "run away" again. […] and by that logic, cruelty and sex are the best tool

Adding on, I think there are 2 main reasons in Doumeki’s head that he uses to justify the cruelty and sex: 1.) Doumeki does not want to hurt Yashiro again by treating him gently because Yashiro perceived that as rape (which is a belief I will tackle later), and 2.) he still believes Yashiro hasn’t changed because of Yashiro’s words and his sleeping with Inami/other men. The second reason in itself, oh my, is another entire post on how the misunderstandings in Saezuru are actually realistic and compelling and not stupid for the sake of relationship drama, but I digress.

Ch. 43 (top) and ch. 46

Because “Yashiro hasn’t changed,” he still thinks Yashiro doesn’t like serious relationships. He still thinks Yashiro will only have sex with men who are rough and don’t care about him (Inami, Kido) because that’s Yashiro’s coping mechanism. So, to not hurt Yashiro with gentleness, to prevent other men from hurting him, to be as close as possible to him, to keep him from running away, and to appeal to his coping mechanism, he uses cruelty and sex.

It’s very backwards. Hurting to prevent hurt... Similarly, being hurt to prevent hurt…

Doumeki and Yashiro’s fortes. These two are the best worst match, truly.

I didn’t even mention the slut-shaming, but I believe that lies in his jealousy, possessiveness, and hurt from being tossed away mostly.

2.) Why won’t Doumeki abide by Yashiro’s requests to not have sex?

doumeki assumes with confidence what yashiro wants and needs, and then acts on those assumptions.

Agree. It doesn’t matter what Yashiro says he wants Doumeki to do or not to do, Doumeki will act the way he does so he “helps” Yashiro realize what he “actually wants and needs” because he thinks Yashiro isn’t capable of that.

To Doumeki, he thinks Yashiro wants what he says he doesn’t want. I believe this is what he realized on the rooftop with Nana.

It always puzzled me why Doumeki didn’t take into consideration that time Yashiro told him he got raped by his stepfather in his realization of��� something… after Nana told him this. In ch. 4 we are aware that Doumeki knows about how Yashiro’s stepfather raped him (“This man went through the same things as my sister”), so surely he should have considered that part of his past’s effect on his twisted perception of sex??

But now, I think my interpretation—that Doumeki is acting deliberately against what Yashiro says he doesn’t want because, on the rooftop, Doumeki concluded that that’s what Yashiro actually wants—makes sense as to why that scene isn’t considered here, when it really should have been.

Upon this false realization, he is willing to ignore Yashiro’s protests for the purpose of getting him to realize what it is he desires. He’s forcing him to admit his feelings for him, so that he can accept love. He isn’t wrong that Yashiro is in love with him and has trouble accepting Doumeki’s love and realizing his own feelings of love, but that doesn’t mean he can choose when Yashiro should accept these feelings. That is Yashiro’s choice to make.

My thoughts are the same as yours here:

there's the well-meaning read on this of course, about how doumeki simply wants to protect yashiro from "other men", make sure he doesn't seek them out by satisfying his, as always assumed, needs. and sure, i won't deny that protectiveness is part of it. i don't think it amounts to much, though. this isn't how you help someone you love. nanahara compared yashiro having sex with men to smoking, and he's right. here's the thing: forcibly taking away someone's cigarettes (or "cigarettes", you know), disregarding their personal autonomy, shaming them for their habit and making them feel like shit without addressing the underlying issues doesn't really accomplish much. yashiro starts smoking immediately after doumeki leaves in ch 57, and seeks out inami and kido "despite" his needs supposedly being satisfied for a reason after all

I also read his actions as him partly trying to protect Yashiro from other men by satisfying his sexual desires, but I don’t condone this at all. You can’t sexually abuse someone you love because you think others will. And yes it is very telling how even though Doumeki is there to take away his “cigarettes,” Yashiro still “smokes.” Even though Yashiro’s body seems to enjoy all their sexual encounters, his mind knows there’s something wrong. He knows he doesn’t want sex with Doumeki in these instances, and Doumeki should have respected that.

It’s important to point out how rape victims can still have their bodies “enjoy” the sex, but they really don’t.

We saw this theme at the very start of the story in volume 2… It’s when Yashiro gets raped by his stepfather. His body enjoyed it, but we clearly know it is NOT what he wanted. There was both blood and cum depicted in those panels for a reason… And these contradictory feelings—the crux of Yashiro’s character—cause rape victims to feel worthless and guilty when it was NEVER their fault. This is EXACTLY what Yashiro was feeling at the end of ch. 57. Doumeki needs to realize this…

What makes his actions so messy and you can argue morally gray is that there has been progress, in terms of getting Yashiro to realize things about himself. But I don’t condone his actions and argue Yashiro could definitely have realized these things without the sex. I’m sure that even if Doumeki didn’t make love with Yashiro the first time, Yashiro could still realize and eventually accept that he wanted gentle affection through non-sexual acts. In fact, he was starting to, with liking and eventually loving Doumeki when he was impotent in the first place. Yashiro is perfectly capable of realizing his true wants and needs. To think that he isn’t, is a huge flaw. To think that rape victims can’t figure out what they really want by themselves makes you infantilize them, ignore their voice, and grossly disregard their autonomy. But because Doumeki escalated to sex that first time, and now his discovery of Yashiro’s impotence with others proves to him that he did something that changed Yashiro, he keeps using this same method… believing it will cause him to change again.

This could also explain why he asks about when Yashiro became impotent in ch. 56. He wants to see if Yashiro’s impotence with other men was his doing, so he can prove that he means something to Yashiro and that his current method of using sex has caused Yashiro to change, so that his actions weren’t worthless and he can absolve his own guilt.

most of his actions after the time skip revolve not around trying to understand yashiro, but rather trying to get him to say or admit what doumeki has already assumed

Again, I agree. It’s as you said, Doumeki is self-centered and thinks he knows best, and I’ll address this flaw in my answer to the last and imo most important question.

3.) Why hasn’t Doumeki questioned the morality of his actions?

Surely his actions should remind him of his father in some fucked up way? And surely this would mean that he should realize that and stop treating Yashiro so horribly?

I believe his persistence with the way he currently treats Yashiro stems from, besides the reasons said above, this false belief that he has yet to properly confront: that it wasn’t his fault for Yashiro to consider the time they made love as rape, it was Yashiro’s fault because of his trauma. What he fails to understand is that he actually did rape Yashiro, and it was his fault.

This false belief stems from how he wants to absolve himself of guilt.

he struggles to understand other people's feelings, and sometimes doesn't seem to even consider them in the first place

Yes, it seems this character flaw has been evident ever since we first saw it with Aoi. Because he is self-centered, he can’t understand the feelings of others nor consider them, and he feels guilty when that lack of understanding results in those he loves getting hurt. He then blames himself. It’s an uncomfortably realistic flaw… It’s too hard for him to accept being the one at fault. What’s most important is how he tries to deflect this guilt from himself. With Aoi, he couldn’t understand her crush on him and ignored her, and when he found out what his father was doing, he blamed himself for ignoring her all those years and became impotent. As a result, he vowed to never be like his father to absolve his guilt. This way of absolving his guilt plays directly into how he views and treats Yashiro now.

With Yashiro, he wanted to express his love to him by having sex, but Yashiro never consented to it and was traumatized by both the non consensual aspect and the realization that he never liked cruel treatment to begin with. It broke Yashiro, and Doumeki felt horribly guilty for that. But Doumeki only considers the latter aspect and not the first. The first is too hard to accept for him. It would mean he is like his father, that all his efforts to prevent becoming like his father were for naught, that he is trash who’s barely worth living. But…

…after ch 25, after the damage is already done, but there is still hope for the answer to "am i like my father?" to be "no" (i hope i don't need to say what that question actually stands for, what doumeki actually asks in ch 32, and why it matters that yashiro takes note of it but doesn't answer one way or another).

You refer to this part of ch. 32?

I see what you mean, with not wanting to point out the question. Yes, what Doumeki implicitly asks here is the uncomfortable question, the question both of them already know the answer to. It’s the ugly truth.

“Did I rape you?”

“Yes.”

But Yashiro didn’t answer.

Both of them are willingly denying something here, and these are both of the things I believe they must accept in the end. They must accept these facts in order to truly heal and, if Yashiro wishes, develop a stable romantic relationship between them. Doumeki must come to terms with the fact that he is like his father in that way, and Yashiro must come to terms with the fact that he is a victim.

Even after these dark realizations that they can’t yet accept, this scene occurs…

They just can’t help but want the other.

God. They’re so fucked up…

———————————————————————————

In the end, I reallyyyyyy hope we see this side of Doumeki again. I really want him to wholeheartedly apologize in the end and make up for the wrong things he did. I really want him to forgive himself enough to start properly loving Yashiro. And when Doumeki accepts this, I want Yashiro to slap the shit out of him.

*When I refer to the time they made love, I mean chapter 24/25. I use this term rather than “have sex” because it was emotionally deeper than the more clinical approach Doumeki is taking now. This article explains why I chose the term “make love” and makes the distinction between making love and having sex, while also acknowledging the two terms’ changing connotations. I used the phrase “make love” to simplify the term “emotionally connected sex” and apply the positive connotation, without disregarding the non consensual aspect of the moment.

[rainbowsky]

twitter BJ_ByYourSide/status/1427940852433776640 I'm confused on why this clip isn't on everyone's favorite list. There so much here! DD not wanting to sound fake and wanting to keep stuff away from the media. Reminds me of when he seemed upset with dd for praising him until gg reassured him he was being sincere. And obviously this is crush behavior- "what did he say about mee", so cute! Do you know when this was filmed? I would imagine the earlier stages cause he seemed insecure

This is the link, to make it easier for readers.

Hi Anon,

I'm a bit confused about why you think this isn't a popular clip. This one is actually quite popular, and fans made a big deal about it when it was first released. It's maybe not as popular as the 9 minutes of bickering on a boat or the lewd moments or jealousy in 3 languages, but it's also not nearly as exciting as those clips.

To me in order for a clip to be exciting it has to be entertaining (and ones containing both of them are always the most entertaining) or it has to reveal something new about them (jealousy in 3 languages seemed to give clues about their sexual orientation, for example).

This clip, while cute and also somewhat hilarious, doesn't give anything all that new. We already knew that DD is into GG, we already knew that he's the sort of person to be invested in what GG thinks about him and in what GG says about him.

I also don't see this clip the same way a lot of fans see it. I don't see it as 'early days, guy has a crush on another guy' at all. It strikes me as fairly normal behavior that doesn't give us much timeline insight. I think anyone discussing an interview where they were a likely topic would want to know what the other person said about them, especially if they were romantically involved with them.

If anything, that clip makes me eye the Devil's Timeline even more. There are a few things that stick out.

DD is speaking pretty openly about how sweet, handsome, cute, etc. GG is. That's not something I see someone as reserved as DD saying about someone he doesn't know well, to people he doesn't know well.

When the producer says that GG said they 'have a good friendship', everyone in the room starts laughing. To me it comes across as, "That's the understatement of the year." Like the people there know that GG and DD are more than just friends.

When DD brings up the game, I think he's musing about things he could have mentioned in the interview but didn't - not that he's 'excited about having had some alone time with a guy he has a crush on', as so many turtles think. That's only reinforced by what someone said in the comments of that clip, that "I didn't want to say it" in reference to the game was actually mistranslated and would be better translated as "I forgot it", which is why the producer said, "Your reaction was slow."

Similarly, someone in the comments said that "Am I fake?" (in response to why he didn't say all these glowing things about GG in the interview) would have been better translated as, "I would have sounded fake." So some fan impressions come out of how the clip was translated.

Everyone's going to have their own interpretations/impressions of things. A lot of fans read DD as insecure here, trying to pump the producer for information about his 'crush'. That's not at all how I saw this clip.

To me, judging from DD's body language and demeanour, he comes across as relaxed and maybe a bit bored. I don't see any insecurity at all in his behavior or speech.

He's obviously quite comfortable in his surroundings and with the people around him. DD is a scrupulously polite, often very reserved guy. He simply wouldn't behave so casually around people he doesn't know well or have a good rapport with. Some of his behavior could come across as rude if he's interacting with a superior he doesn't know very well.

So this clip tells me that DD has developed a laid back relationship with the crew, which leads me to believe he's not the 'new', 'shy', 'insecure' person that fans read him to be.

I also get the impression - like I said before - that DD is already in a relationship with GG at this point.

It's hard to say when it was recorded, but likely well into filming. After all, those interviews were filmed as promo, and it's unlikely they'd start filming those things before the cast and crew had gotten well into the groove of the project.

Just my two cents. Like I said, a lot of people have a different view of this and that's their right. We'll likely never know for sure what this was really all about.

If people don't talk about clips like this much now, it's probably because the BTS is really old and people aren't talking about any of the BTS much these days. These BTS moments were all filmed nearly 6 years ago.

Edit: here's GG's interview, which is being discussed in that clip.

[booksandpaperss]

How Stranger Things (poorly) handles racism as a topic compared other heavy topics it successfully tackles

before we get started, I would to direct you all to some other accounts who have already discussed this that you should check out either before or after reading this post: @wewebaggit @googoogagaeyes @elekinetic and anyone else please feel free to tag yourself or another account that’s discussed this and I’ll happily boost it

Content Warning for in show examples of racism and discussions of racism, as well as mentions of homophobia and the AIDES epidemic

.

. While we're discussing historical accuracy in stranger things and homophobia + ignorance being present even in well meaning characters, I want to point out that if the writers of the show weren't so squeamish about addressing racism in any in depth way, than this type of historical accuracy would be for racism too.

what I mean by this: in this sense, the show is not consistent. It's clear that the writers have done their research on 80s homophobia and how openly prevalent it was, if the AIDES allegory in season 2 and the way homophobia was very clearly present in seasons 1 and 2 (it still is in seasons 3 and 4 but the first 2 seasons showed it in the scope of the entire town), but racism was just as overtly prevalent, and yet the writers have neglected to address it in the same thoughtful and coded way. if the show was just as consistent about racism as it is about homophobia, than the white characters would be at the very least shown as ignorant just like the straight characters are.

and I'm not going to say that it's completely ignored, because that's not true:

-in season 2; mike makes an ignorant comment that implies Lucas should have been Winston because he's black, and Lucas calls him on it. There's also the very racist undertones (that are practically overtones) of Billy's treatment of Lucas. -There is almost nothing in season 3 except for a jokey joke when Nancy says the whole party is her family and the receptionist, who is a black woman, gives Lucas a skeptical look.

-Season 4 is a little better, with the implications (key word: implications, I'll come back to that in a moment) of Lucas's season 4 arc being that he was trying to fit in because he didn't want to be racially targeted and bullied for being a nerd at the same time anymore, that he felt like even more of an outsider compared to the rest of his otherwise all white friend group who, as far as he knows, are all cishet and giving him shit for wanting to lessen how much he's perceived as an outsider because he's automatically seen as even more of a "freak", and his friends just weren't getting it because they were white and ignorant. So the writers aren't blind to race and racism.

However. None of the examples that I've just listed are addressed later in any in depth way; not like the homophobia is. The only one that's even remotely delved into instead of simply being glossed over is Lucas's s4 arc, and even that is still very flitted around and left up to interpretation of the audience.

The writers seem to have a very "hit and run" sort of policy with addressing racism. They clearly know they should, and they at least seem to know that having a black character in an 80s setting with a cast of mostly white characters inherently creates a lot of racial subtext-

-for example, the very loud subtext of Jason (a white boy much older than Lucas) seeing Max (a white girl) in a trance alone with Lucas (a black boy) and immediately assuming the worst + Jason's white friends tackling an 11 year old black girl to the ground: subtext that I'm still not sure if the writers and directors were even aware of bc they never addressed it and their track record isn't great-

-but they hardly do anything about it.

I'm not surprised, considering this show is headed by two white men, but what really gets me is that they all truly could have tried harder. Like I said earlier, it's clear they've done research and put thought into addressing homophobia (it still could've been handled better but that's an entirely different conversation), and it's evident from Max's s4 arc that they also did research on Depression, PTSD, and the impacts on someone of their abusive family member dying. So the lack of care and thought put into addressing racism in the same way is clearly more than ignorance (which would still be bad, when you're writing a show this big in 2023 with topics like this you're actually, shocker, responsible for making sure they're addressed properly, ignorance is a choice at that point), its just fucking lazy. they don't care. And this not caring is inherently harmful on a show this big and frankly, I'm tired of so many viewers and people in this fandom straight up ignoring this fact, just like the show runners.

And I haven't even covered the complete lack of effort put into Patrick's backstory, or the fact that Erica is very much the sassy, mature for her age black girl stereotype (she deserves so much better). Oh, And we can’t forget the copaganda.

I'm glad that season 4 started to explore the dynamic between Lucas and Erica and expand on both their characters, and from the looks of things that will continue in season 5, so the writers have a chance to do their research, actually put effort more effort into the sinclair sibling’s characters, and improve, and I'm hoping they will but as of right now I don't trust them to, and won't unless they prove me wrong.

TDLR; the main issue is that Stranger Things is clearly a show that addresses topics like depression, abuse, homophobia, and racism, but the racism part is neglected compared to the others, just like how Lucas and Erica's characters are handled poorly compared to the white characters,. it's lazy, horribly insensitive, and racist in and of itself. There's a clear bias, and even if it improves in season 5 we still should be talking about it, and more white people (yes white queer people included, we are not exempt from this discussion, if anything we should care just as much about it as when we’re talking about homophobia) in this fandom need to start listening when black and brown people do talk about it instead of just waltzing through and ignoring it for your own peace of mind.

also I should clarify that I myself am white, I made sure I did research before making this post in order to talk about this accurately and consciously, but if I made any mistakes or said something insensitive or used an incorrect term or anything else, feel free to correct me and I will readily fix it

as a final note: please check my rebligs of this for links to more posts that talk abt this issue

[spiderlandry]

HII! congrats on 100+ followers!!!

do you think you could write a jackie taylor x reader?

reader listens to jackie talk about their future together (schools, jobs, marriage and everything) just nodding along with her and admiring her in either one of their rooms

cuddles pls and messing with her fingers and forehead touches pls!

lots of fluff! (maybe some angst with the whole marriage topic, considering it was 1996? or not, whichever, tyty:))

thank you sm!!! :) <3

thanks anon! this request made me kinda blush i love the physical intimacy it’s so cute. we need more jackie fics and im happy to deliver (hopefully you like it!) no pronouns used for reader, but they do discuss the marriage topic

100 follower event

warnings: fluff! and implied discussions of being unable to get married (ambiguous reasons but can be interpreted as same-sex marriage not being recognized by the law at the time)

looking out for you — jackie taylor

A soft thud hits your back, eliciting a laugh out of you. You look up to see the culprit on the other side of her bed, Jackie, with a pillow in her hands.

“Did you just hit me with a pillow?” You grin, mirroring her smile.

She shrugs, doing it again.

“Hey!” You sit up properly to try and grab it out of her grasp, but you end up in a position you’d found yourself time and time again with her. She cages you in between her arms, getting you to lay on her while she throws the pillow across the room.

“Is this your way of asking me to cuddle?” You ask, already reciprocating her embrace.

“Mhm,” She hums.

“You’ve been quiet,” You whisper, pushing her hair out of her face. “What’s on your mind?”

“College,” she replies with a faraway look, but her stare is almost intense, as if she’s viewing the future through your eyes. (She is.) “I’m not forcing you to go to Rutgers, am I?”

The way her voice tapers off melts your heart. “You know I’ll go to the ends of the Earth for you, right?”

You know she was always the kind of person to be sure of herself—one of the reasons you fell deeply in love with the girl. But lately, as the future closes in, she’s been plagued with second thoughts ever since they lost Nationals and she had a fight with her best friend, Shauna, that almost ended their ten-year long friendship.

You pull away from the embrace, lying down completely on the bed when you signal for her to do the same. Both your eyes are on the ceiling.

“Talk to me,” You take her hand, intertwining it with your own.

“I am talking to you.”

“Okay, smartass,” you chuckle. “Tell me if everything you told me before Nationals.”

She remembers that night, ditching the party early to go home and spend the rest of the night in your arms while she tells you the ways you fit perfectly into her future life, then deeming it ‘our future,’ rather than hers alone.

“Well, she begins with a sigh. “You’re coming to Rutgers with me. We’ll do roadtrip with all our stuff packed into my mom’s minivan.”

You hum, nodding for her to continue.

“We’re both gonna work and get our own place by the second year, and it’s gonna have a cute theme, and there’s gonna be pictures of us on the wall to make people jealous.”

You laugh, “Who’s gonna come over to our place?”

“Our friends, of course. The team could visit.”

You begin playing with her hand, fiddling with the promise ring you’d given her junior year.

“We can go to college parties, and you’ll protect me from anyone who hits on me,” She giggles. “Obviously, we’re gonna study together. Hold each other accountable, right?”

“Right.” You bob your head, turning to admire her side profile.

“Then we’re gonna get a dog. Then a cat. Then we’ll make sure they’re friends.”

“Mhm.”

She can feel your stare, so she looks back. "What?" She chuckles.

"Nothing," You mutter. "You're just beautiful."

She grins wide, fully turning her body to the side so she can scoot closer to you. "You're a sap."

You look smug, "But you love it."

"I do," She puts a hand on your jaw, a soft touch that never gets old. At her own words, she is reminded of another thing. "We've never talked about getting married, have we?"

You don't miss the way her tone drops a little. "We haven't," you shake your head. "But you know I'll do anything for you. I'll marry you no matter what it takes."

Her eyes become glassy, and you press your forehead to hers.

"You wanna get married?" Her voice almost a whisper, you can feel her breath on your lips.

"I gave you the promise ring for a reason, Jackie." You say, a little more serious this time. "I'll make it happen. For both of us. And I know you're gonna look fucking amazing, and I'll cry when I see you in the dress."

"What did I do to deserve you?"

"I should be asking that question."

Becoming more comfortable, snuggling into her, you both fall asleep and dream of your future.

[crtstormie]

If Val still abuses Vox like stated in the old lore, would he and Angel be able to relate? 

Tw: discussions of abuse

If you weren’t back in the early days of the fandom, back then we barely knew anything about Vox. All we knew was a few limited and obvious things like he was an entertainment overlord and one of the three Vees. 

However, one of the things we later learned about him in a livestream is that him and Val are in some sort of relationship and that Val is obviously abusive towards him. 

This was a part of the old lore and while I’m sure Val can get violent from time to time, it seems from episode two that this new idea of Vox has a lot of control over Val’s anger and wouldn’t really allow him to crack or break his screen.

But back then we didn’t know this. Remember when we thought Val would be the leader of the Vees? 

Considering that we also still thought the Voxtagram stories a were canon and Val is shown to break Vox’s screen often, we had a very different interpretation of him.

And with the popularity of amazing fan song ‘eyes on me’ from paranoid dj that also shows their relationship as abusive at the end of the video, this was all we thought their relationship would be like. (Ok but honestly eyes on me is amazing I listen to it like every week) 

Now, how did this relate to angeldust? 

We knew a lot more about Angeldust because he is part of the main cast, and when addict released the show was making it very obvious that Val was his boss, abuser, and that hurts and affects him daily.

When the show released we get a sneak peak of how manipulative Val is in episode 2 when he convinces Angel to come to the studio, but it is the worst in the infamous episode.

This episode’s entire theme is about Val and just how horrible he treats Angel and has no regards for his feelings, body, or well being.

I could go into more detail on just how bad Val is to Angel, but that’s a sensitive topic that’s been discussed to death already.

But as we see at the end of ‘poison,’ Vox gives Angel a look that I can only describe as smug jealousy. 

Which Vox, I love you, but that is disgusting.

In this frame it’s shown to us that Vox is jealous of Angel because Val focuses a lot of his time on Angel and not him, but… Angel is literally getting raped without his consent? 

Vox may be Val’s on and off boyfriend, but he’s very aware of what Val does to his employees, especially Angel. It’s part of why he works with him.

But comparing someone who youre partly letting get abused in your workplace by you’re friend and work partner to jealously because they are getting abused and beat by that person daily to be jealous of because Angel spends more time with Val than he gets to? 

I’m sorry Vox, but that sickens me to an extreme level.

Of course I could just be reading to far into that one frame, but in the context of the show Vox is an egotistical overlord who is already shown to not care for his own employees. So why would he care about what Val does to his?… except when they are the source of his anger and time.

Now, theoretically, let’s say that in the new lore Val is still abusive to Vox at times. Ignoring how close they were in the finale song in episode 8. 

Val is poison to everyone around him, even the people he’s the closest to.

Would Vox and Angel be able to bond over this? I say no.

Angel is a sinner, which is on the lower part of the class system in hell. It’s normalized that someone like him can be treated however it applies to a contract they signed.

There’s no sympathy for him by others except when they care for him and what it makes Angel do to himself (Husk) or when they know just what goes down in that studio (Charlie) 

But I highly doubt Angel and Vox are any sense of close.

Vox mainly works on his floor, and Angel works in the studio. They obviously have met and vox still has that.. *ew* resentment to Angel, but that’s really it.

Now, vox on the other hand, is a powerful level who is on the same level, if not more powerful that Valentino because he’s the leader of the Vees. 

Even if Val abuses him sometimes, he’s probably… into that. 

Look at that waist and tell me that man isn’t a bottom, you get the point.

Val and Vox’s story hasn’t been told to us yet, but by using background information like a old picture of them from presumably the 70’s and how close they seem, I theorize they met a little after Val died and teamed up to become more powerful. They were a little attracted to one another, but it never did and still isn’t official, even if they look and act gay as hell. (Heh) 

So Vox is on the same level as Val and has been close to him for 50+ years. They’ve had plenty of good moments, even if they are both awful people.

Oh yeah, let’s talk about that.

Since Vox is also on the same level as Val, he still is a awful person as well see in episode 2,4, and 8. (His appearances) 

Even if he Dosent sexually assault his employees, he still treats them horribly, as does Velvette. I assume this is common practice for overlords to treat their souls poorly, but it’s still not a good practice. I feel bad for the fish guy who had to make angelic security on the spot, he looks as stressed as me.

He hypnotizes people into trusting him and buying his technology, which is just evil businessman behavior. Someone said he reminds them of lord business from the LEGO movie, and I see it.

He is also very petty towards Alastor in almost every way, immediately trying to brainwash his audience to not listen to him.

I’m not saying being petty is a sign of being a awful person, but for Vox it contributes.

There’s the… look in episode 4, which I’ve already discussed, but it’s important to note that Vox is in Val’s studio DURING Val shooting and mistreating his stars.

If he regularly does this is then he is more than aware of what Val does to his employees and only gives them disgusted stares back. Like all he sees in them is what Val sees, useless whores for content.

Which is obviously not good lmao

And then in episode 8 (and partly episode 6 if you look into it) 

Vox is shown to have spying technology all over the city which is how he regulates his users behavior. He uses this tech to spy on alastor and the others and make fun of them like he’s watching football. 

At the end of the episode, we see him happily dancing with Valentino and Tounge kissing him, showing us even more that they’re in love in their own sick twisted evil way.

Angel on the other hand, is shown to be better. 

He’s in a hotel for redemption and throughout the season we see him slowly kicking his old habits like self destruction, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, distancing himself, etc. 

(With the help of Husky ofc huskerdust for life) 

And by the end of the season we see Angel being a lot more genuine to the others in the hotel and I only imagine he gets better once they find out it’s possible to be redeemed.

Vox is not shown to want to be morally better in the slightest, if not worse. 

He wants to one up Alastor, he wants to take over hell with the other Vees, and he will do it however he wants because he’s a cartoon supervillain. 

I’m not going to touch on what I Think of Val and Vox as a ship in this but what I will say is that Vox is a cartoon supervillain, doing things that even though horrible in the universe are just seen as goofy to us viewers.

Val on the other hand is scarily realistic, a abuser who manipulates his victims and forces them to have sex for his own benefits. I think that’s the main thing that sets me off for them, even if they are evilly perfect for each other. (So I’m gonna steal vox from Val) 

Vox is in a much different position with Val than Angel is, equal to if not above him while Angel is very below him. We see Angel stand up to him in episode 6, but I just know he was beaten the hell out of the next day and broken even further.

Vox would belittle him, so the only way I see the two even talking genuinely is if Angel starts it.

This isn’t like Angel and Husk, where they’re both washed up losers who are going through situations similar enough to bond, there’s an extreme power imbalance that wouldn’t make it as meaningful as Angel and husk’s talk.

There’s an amazing comic, I’ll add it below, but it’s actually what got me thinking about this topic.

If Vox comes out with his screen cracked after Angel was also hurt just to yell at the other becuase he’s ruining their image, then I see this potentially working.

They could share a sweet line like Angel showing concern for Vox’s cracked screen considering that’s his face and it must feel like having you’re skull cracked open. Angel has probably been driven to that level before.

However I have this one image in my head.

If Vox and Angel are both slightly talking and then they both say, “Val can be… rough.” 

I think that perfectly shows how different the two’s situations are with him.

Vox would say it all horny with a tint of love to his voice, while Angel would say it actually despaired and quiet. They see Val’s actions differently because they are affected differently by it.

Vox isn’t scared of Val because he is on the same level as him, and I think that’s the main reason to why they wouldn’t kconnect.

Besides, both Vox and Angel are either too egotistical or have too many walls up to have a legit conversation about Val without knowing each other at all.

If anything Vox is only a contribute to why Val focuses on Angel so much, their relationship is toxic af and we see in ep 2 that Val likes to get a reaction out of Vox. It’s sick and twisted but I wouldn’t put it against him to do something like that.

So, in conclusion I don’t think Angel and Vox would be able to relate to each other because their situations and relationships with Val are so different, even if Val lets it out on Vox time to time his main target is Angel. Angel gets hurt almost every day and I’d say Vox only gets hurt every couple months on a really bad day.

We know a lot of the lore has changed since the pilot and the Voxtahram stories most of these claims come from arent even canon, so I probably just ranted about nothing.

Regardless Thank you for reading, and goodnight. If you have any genuine thoughts about this feel free to share in the comments and reblogs, I’m curious.

[pixiecaps]

i hope you're already asleep it's so late for you but on the topic of the finale ending honestly i understand why people are so upset by it, i think it royally sucks, but imo it was created entirely because they really needed some way to wrap things up and i think almost everyone would agree that it shouldn't have and wouldn't have ended that way had things been different and had the server not needed to end so abruptly.

like idk you KNOW i'm a canon compliant guy but for this thing specifically i genuinely don't consider it canon and think it should fully be ignored, and i think basically everyone involved would be fine with that. also honestly in my mind everything purgatory and after is non-canonical in that it shouldn't have happened either and the reset is definitely not canon so that makes it easier for me to ignore it completely. i think what players and admins stated about their characters is canonical within reason and otherwise i don't think any of it matters all that much because of how the server ended. like to me i know the reality is that that is how it ended and we don't have any other ending to go off of but because of the circumstances there's just no way i could consider it canon and i already spend all my time dreaming up ways to rewrite all the shit that happened before then, nevermind a garbage hastily written ending that only wrapped up one plot thread (the eggs) and didn't even do that correctly (it completely retconned so much about the eggs and i know a lot of lore got retconned and changed over time but it's particularly agregious).

idk where i'm going with this insane rant in your inbox i really don't i just wanted to give my thoughts on that ending and how i take it as a fandom creator because i often see people treating it like it was a legitimate ending even though they hated it and i'm like this is fandom!!! we can ignore it entirely!!! in fact many characters' endings explicitly defy that ending, that was just the way to wrap up the idea of the egg event in some way that made sense. i totally get people being upset by it, i was too, but i was also upset by the previous. five months? of stuff so i kind of can't be bothered to be annoyed by this particular thing.

again this is nonsensical i'm just saying i think we should all ignore it and i've been saying that since the day of bc it was just so obviously not the kind of ending that would've been written under different circumstances. let's all make up better endings forever and ever amen.

anyway hi pix if you're reading this in the morning i hope you got beautiful sleep and dreamt of snoopy and roier all night

hiii 🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶 i was in fact asleep by the time you sent this:3

that was another point i discussed with someone els where yeah it sucked because they had to wrap it up and “tie everything together” so i agree on that. everything with the qsmp ending wouldve been different under different circumstances.

you’re incredibly real for not considering canon up to a certain point where everything got messy. i think since we’re both very canon compliant people you can understand where im coming from with that frustration and being irked by how everything played out. it was going so well and then 📉📉📉. and heres the thing you know how much i love purgatory okay cause i do but god its truly one of those events where it shouldve been explicitly uncanon i feeeeel. so much of the lore it introduced and everything clashed with everything we had already established and not informing the creators of anything was such a poor choice. but anyways you already know the whole rant.

i do appreciate the reminder of its fandom who cares. i live by that i just get Even More emotional when sleep deprived and was like wow fuck everything and this stupid fucking ending so thats why i made those posts kkkkkkkk. but ye GOOD REMINDERS ITS FANDOM ENDINGS ARE OPEN TO REWRITES AND OUR OWN INTERPRETATIONS!!!!!!!

i did get beautiful sleep ty bell<3333 i hope you got beautiful sleep as well<3333

[worldismyne]

Iceberg Bing for layer 3 and 4.

My memory is really bad, so some of these might have already appeared in earlier layers.

AMVs - Either specific songs that were popular to use in the fandom, or any fanmade content from during the manga's run that was popular

Soul and Maka Split up - Apparently this interpretation of Maka and Soul's final discussion in the manga is a hot take. There was a lot going on in the final chapter, but here are the phrases from the manga that gave me that impression.

Will cross this box off for any analysis from that final chapter tho.

Thompson Twins - Can't remember if this specific reference was pointed out, but stands in for any pop culture references brought to light.

The Dress - This is a newer development, but at some point this dress got listed on Devil Inspired and advertised heavily on instagram.

A bunch of Chrona cosplayers independently saw it and adopted it. (There were at least 3 or 4 at the first con I went to after it was listed). It's so prolific I've seen it in fanart of Chrona now.

Mary Shelly Theory - Saw someone in the tag a while back theorize Marie might be an allusion to Mary Shelly. It would add a layer to the electricity power outside of the Mjolnir reference.

New Art - Any mention of the 20th anniversary drops. (It didn't fit well in the square)

Purple/Pink Gate - Another one I can't remember if it's already been covered. Despite most fan artists color picking a dusty rose for Crona's hair, lavender wigs are still more common for cosplayers. I am a pink wig truther.

Shinobi - Okay, this is a PS2 game that predates the manga by two years. The main mechanic is a katana that sucks the lifeforce/soul of the user unless it's constantly fed other souls. I am fairly sure this is the inspiration of the uncanny sword. Even the cover art gives post time skip vibes.

If not, both pieces of media have to be referencing the same thing.

Zagreus + Dionysus : Death the Kid's role in SE has similarities with the god of the rebirth. Particularly the part of the legends where he's dismembered and eaten. There is some confusion in greek mythology if these are just different names for the same god or just two gods whose roles overlap, thus why I put both names.

Ragnarok - Particularly how he stops being a character after Salvage. Will also check off for mention of the war of the gods.

Merch - There's a lot of merch out there. Apparently they made a speaker inspired by bonus art. I'm sure there's a bunch of official stuff I haven't seen before.

Official Cosplay - There's a few talking points here that come to mind. Like how Soul is the only weapon with an official cosplay prop. Any Spirit, Ragnarok or Tsubaki props you see were made by the cosplayer. Death the Kid rings get sold one at a time, even if they're advertised as a set.

Translations goofs - There's little things like Afreet and Kishen being used interchangeably in the sub. The Witch hunter evolutions have a few different names. I'm sure there's other translation stuff that I don't know about that might pop up.

Demi-god Black Star - Another umbrella square. Black Star's arc towards the end seems to be referencing something specific. Idk what it is, but Marie goes out of her way to put him and Death the Kid on the same level and snubs Maka at the end of the manga.

The Dread Queen - Comparing Chrona to Persephone is really common in the Kirona crowd. After listening to some deeper dives on the topic there's actually precedence for them to be an allusion ancient underworld goddess that predates Persephone and Hades, but not the abduction myth. They're never referred by name only by titles. Crona's name being literally Dark One in Japanese fits with this theme, as well as usually being referred to as the Demon Sword rather than by their given name. This could be more coincidence than anything else though.

Unlocalized content - The iceberg has already covered the games, but there might be audio dramas or other in-character content that didn't make it's way over when SE was popular in the US.

[rei-ismyname]

Hello again, I am the anonymous one who wants to expose Scott's autistic nature that readers insist on denying. Following the topic, since I want to learn from the criticism of previous works, and you always give very good analysis, I have a small question to ask you. If you could rewrite the X-Men from scratch, what elements would you keep? We all know what to rule out (creepy love triangles, writers' prejudices accidentally present in the narrative, machismo, sexism, lack of depth in the characters) and since we all know what not to do, I have the big question about what the successes of other writers have been. I admit that I am an impressionable person, I have to read a comic repeatedly to get the message because I tend to get distracted by the specific drawing or characters, that is why I come to you, I trust your judgment.

Hey there!

That's really kind of you to say and I appreciate it. It's certainly a tough question, if only because of the sheer volume of stories there are in the over 60 years the X-Men have been around.

Some readers are never going to come around on coding or deniable story elements, but there's plenty of people who are interested in good faith close readings. Personally, I find myself a lot happier by avoiding the former and seeking the latter - something Tumblr is especially good for. Jay and Miles X-Plain the X-Men has at least one whole episode dedicated to examination of Scott Summers through an ASD lens. I definitely recommend checking that out if you haven't already.

Part of the problem with imagining a rewrite is that a lot of the stuff I'd remove/alter simply wouldn't be allowed. Marvel has a very clear culture and identity in terms of what's allowed and what's not, and they're not looking to break any barriers (unless it's profitable.) A pretty simple thing I'd add would be a diagnosis for Scott, or a storyline where he explores that. Obviously a diagnosis doesn't make anyone's health any more valid (bc doctors kinda suck) but if you're looking to get something to stick, especially with fans, you need to be crystal clear.

Unfortunately, even that might be a little too close to permanent change for Marvel (with not enough opportunities for action) that the pitch wouldn't be accepted or I'd be editorially overwritten. Then, even if it did get published, chances are high that the next writer or the next would undo it or handle it offensively (like Legion's 'autism' for example.)

Part of me wouldn't go back and change problematic choices from the past (except for the super egregious stuff) because it does add some value. I hate the love triangle, for instance, but it has led to plenty of interesting dynamics. I'd certainly make it less creepy and have Logan grow/feel social consequences for his bs, but that brings me back to something I wouldn't be allowed to do. Stories like AvX, that baffle me with the choices made, are some of my favourites to analyse in retrospect.

Part of the importance of fan engagement and interpretation of the text is discussion of coding and developing individual relationships with the canon, IMO. There's just too much of it, often contradictory, that you have to choose what is and isn't meaningful to you. The X-Men franchise is never going to be perfect but discovering how to dictate the terms for your enjoyment can be rewarding, or even necessary.

I hope that helps, feel free to follow up if I missed anything or you'd like me to elaborate/explore further. I may have misunderstood the question.

Thanks for the ask and the kind words. Hope you're well!

[dragonworshippersblog]

Let's discuss some topic that I frequently read on tumblr about house of the dragon (if u do not agree then u can express ur opinion by comment, but always be educate. And if you want another topic to be discussed let me know and i will make a post)

“Aegon is the rightful king of the seven kingdoms by law”

GRRM in an interview said this “ Well, the short answer is that the laws of inheritance in the Seven Kingdoms are modeled on those in real medieval history… which is to say, they were vague, uncodified, subject to varying interpretations, and often contradictory” so we can say that male primogeniture is based on traditions, not law. King Jaehaerys with the great council of 101 at harrenal let the lords decide who should succeeded him, so he gave them a choice. But this is not the same about king viserys, he named rhaenyra as his heir and alway defended her, so viserys did not give them a choice. By usurping rhaenyra’s throne the green imply that the king’s word means nothing, and this is the thing that causes war and crisis. As we see in the book fire and blood most of the houses support rhaenyra’s cause, so otto’s word “the realm will not accept her” are revealed to be false. Again the war come from the fact that otto and alicent decide to crown aegon, so houses actually have a choice to decide who they wanted to support, if aegon hadn’t been present as an option the few houses that didn't agree with viserys choice will bent the knee alike.

“Alicent always defended rhaenyra before she lied to her about her purity”

In episode three the show let us see a conversation between otto and alicent where he said “aegon has been robbed of his own inheritance because he is the king’s first born son” and after he said that is alicent’s aim to guide the king in his decision, the second after she went to viserys’ chamber claim that there is something she want to discuss with him (viserys stopped her and they start talking about the stepstones). How do you know that she did not raise this matter anymore? In episode six when older alicent was question rhaenyra’s children she say she already talk about this before but the show didn't let us saw it, so its completely possible that she proposed aegon as heir even before rhaenyra’s lie when they were still friend

“Alicent always defend rhaenyra and yet rhaenyra send otto away when she had the possibility leaving alicent alone”

Let’s go deep into it. Queen Aemma, rhaenyra’s mother, died in order to gave the king a son, she was literally open without any kind of anesthesia so she felt every cut the maester were doing to her (and in the original script rhaenyra saw her body so she is aware that the death of her mother wasn’t a miscarriages like the other). After all of it viserys named rhaenyra his heir and married alicent, and at the time they had two children together, aegon and haelena. In this scenario otto was the second most powerful man in the realm, he ruled when viserys can’t, and he had great influence as he had great ambitions. So, rhaenyra had the chance to demonstrate that her mother’s death was not vain, and all of her miscarriages and pain had an aim now that her daughter is heir, but then there is otto and he will always be an obstacles in her rise to the throne; you, in her position, had the chance to get him go away, you choose to let him stay at court so your best friend is not alone or you choose to let him go so your rise will be more easy? Because if I were in rhaenyra’s position I would have not hesitate a second

“Alicent did not knew the council were plotting to crown aegon”

You all act like she had not the huge part in rhaenyra’s usurpation. First of all she tormented rhaenyra for a lot of years in king's landing, she moved to dragonstone (which is however the seat of the heir to the throne, rhae is the princess of dragonstone) because she couldn't take it anymore to be targeted by alicent and it was her aim in my opinion because rhaenyra not set the council would let Alicent have all the power to influence everyone about how her son is more worthy. Then she said to aegon “everyone in the realm know that one day you will be our king” so also if aegon was not meant to have the crown alicent let him believe that, and he was a boy at the time so he was easily manipulated. Then there is the petition about driftmark, you are really claim that alicent was willing to do so because she care so much to vaemond to have driftmark because its his blood rights and not because when the war she and otto create will follow she will have the velaryon flee support her? And when she said that viserys whisper to her about how aegon should succeed him? You can be team green or team black, but everyone can agree about how pathetic she was claiming that after viserys defend rhae for 20 years, and he suddenly change his mind where only her was here to listen him