#I have no idea what proshipping or being a proshipper is

[lildoodlenoodle]

Wanted to make smth clear, with a, somewhat, confirmed age for Hobie coming out. First things first, I always saw him in that 17-19 range, so 19/20 isn’t shocking for me by any means. HOWEVER because it was never stated in the movie like Miles(15), Gwen’s(17), or PB’s(39) age were, I STILL think it’s totally up to interpretation for the other characters. So while punkflower / hobiemiles, punkchai / chaipunk, and ghostpunk / HobieGwen aren’t for me(I still love all the art!) I’m never gonna hate on someone for shipping these because they interpret them to be around the same age.

[pawberri]

The key problem with "proship vs anti" discourse is that the most extreme versions of each side, the ones who actually bother to identify with these labels, accepted each others worst takes as arguments they had to debate. "Fiction =/= reality" is, in practice, an absurdly reductionist, anti-intellectual, thought-terminating-cliche that dictates we can learn nothing about a person via art and that their fiction reflects no political or moral messaging worthy of critique. In response to this, the "puriteens" who are too young to possibly hope to articulate their discomfort, to untangle their position from what is often real trauma experienced online, simply argue "yes, fiction influences and reflects reality in a 1 to 1 capacity." They, and people who want to use the groundwork they laid to make bad-faith callouts, make bad arguments about how the action of engaging in problematic fiction is on equal ground to real life abuse, or is a clear indicator of interest in real life abuse. Both of these arguments are terrible, but each side seems to radicalize the other further and further into their own brands of anti-intellectual reactionary belief. "Proshippers" become libertarian absolutists about free speech and view all transgression as righteous and alternative and therefore leftist. They gain a reactionary nostalgia for the past, desiring a time when people didn't seem to care about the implications of art. "Antis" become authoritarian and hypervigilant for signs of moral decay, at their worst, willing to align themselves with government bodies that offer carceral solutions to the debate. They are willing to use harassment as a tool of punishment, which then leads to false accusations and a fear of openness that puts people at risk of being triggered via obfuscation. (That said, proshippers also take part in plenty of harassment.)

I will say that I believe both of these movements are equally sensitive to co-opting by right-wing forces. We see the authoritarian tendencies of anti culture in harassment campaigns and even the way Republican law makers co-opt "grooming." The proship/fic crowd has such extreme nostalgia for the past that I often see people align themselves with the cultures of 4chan or other happily right-wing websites. They so heavily reject the idea that a drawn sexual depiction of a child could reflect any desire that they are disinterested in analyzing what the motivation behind the depiction is. i.e If we track the history of lolicon in Japan we do find that is, yes, countercultural, but that counter culture is right wing, very misogynistic, and defensive of patriarchial Japanese culture as it is and was including its culture around rape and abuse. Plenty of fictional content works as radicalization material, and radicalization material needs to be ambiguous. There is a valid reason to be hesitant to trust people who consume this content, even if I do not believe most of them will ever be dangerous towards children. The mere presence of sexuality is not enough to make a movement left wing. This kind of thing can again be seen in right-wing libertarian movements in the US. (And even leftist movements can be bigoted and even "pro-pedophilia" or otherwise disinterested in social reform around abuse.)

Is all content with elements of age-play this way? No. But to me, that is why kink media deserves to be treated as art and analyzed, critiqued, treated seriously. It doesn't have to do anything to anyone to be worthy of a moral critique. Said moral critique just doesn't warrant harassment and cruelty and reactionary exaggerations of the person consuming said content.

Anyway, what's my point in saying all this? I don't know. I'm just begging you to tag your God damn content with specific tags instead of random and nebulous shit like "dead dove" or "dark content", and also begging you to stop harassing people who do tag their content so I don't have to guess what "dead dove" and "dark content" mean. No one will erase incest kink fics or people who feel sickened by the idea of them off this earth because we aren't god, but we could at least all be responsible about tagging, flagging, and age-gating our stuff.

[fight-nights-at-freddys]

I hate these posts.

either you are AGAINST the idea of thought-crimes, or you're not. just bc someone's a paraphile does NOT make them any kind of offender. being proship, you almost HAVE to be pro-(anti contact) para, because part of being proship is recognizing that your imagination also can't hurt anyone.

ignoring all that, though, the other glaring issue is that these are the exact arguments antis make towards us. calling people predators with no proof, saying paras should "keep it private", that paras are trying to "groom" people into believing their paraphilias are good. replace "paras" with "proshippers" and you've got the same dumb arguments WE'VE BEEN HAVING FOR YEARS.

EVEN FURTHER THAN THAT, what happened to using the block button? why do y'all forget all about that as soon as it's a paraphile, or at minimum, someone you DEEM to be a paraphile. y'all are no better than the people you are against.

[chengfagshi]

I really need to vent because this shit is pissing me OFF. Okay, so I'm sure proshippers have heard about the proship server on discord or whatever. Basically, an anti joined, downloaded the selfies of these proshippers and posted it on tiktok for several thousands to see (it almost has 100K likes on tiktok). Now, disclaimer, I do not think taking selfies and posting them on discord with a bunch of strangers is a good idea. Especially considering a lot of these proshippers are minors. Like the owner of the discord server is 14, I believe. I don't think that's a good idea at all. SO an anti took those selfies and posted them for the world to see. 100% without permission and consent of these proshippers. And anytime someone on tiktok comments things like "Uhh, why are you posting kids' selfies", the comments are filled with this type of shit. Dumbfuck #1 is the one that posted the tiktok

[Image ID: "Why are we posting pictures of minors without their permission..." Dumbfuck #1: "Being a minor doesn't excuse being a bigot and a predator." End ID] Keep in mind, we're talking about...you guessed it, fictional characters. This is basically how Dumbfuck #1 sounds to me: "I have to protect the fictional minors from the very real minors by calling out and endangering said real minors". That's basically what Dumbfuck #1 is saying.

And here's Dumbfuck #2:

[Image ID: Person with a functioning brain: "Why are you posting images of minors without their consent tho?..." Dumbfuck #2: "I can tell you like kids." End ID]

I DON'T EVEN FUCKING KNOW WHERE TO BEGIN WITH THIS FUCKING SHIT. FIRST OF ALL, someone caring about the wellbeing of MINORS does not make them a pedophile, despite what you fucking idiots like to believe. And secondly, you are literally endangering MINORS by posting their selfies for the world to see, but you don't fucking give a shit, because you're more worried about them shipping fictional fucking characters together.

[olderthannetfic]

I just have to say, I don’t like the internet’s recent obsession with labeling everyone, but right now it’s the proship vs anti. I don’t know which side I fall on but I don’t know how to say that without getting someone mad at me. I don’t like to see proship content and I have filters on so that I don’t see it, but I also understand that it has the right to exist and that policing what people post on the internet is stupid and gatekeepy. And I also know that saying that publicly could lead to me getting doxxed or some shit like that.

I guess the main reason why I’m venting about this now is because an anon just asked whether I was proship or anti because apparently I had reblogged a post that says “proshippers dni”, even though I have no idea when I did that and can’t find the post because tumblr’s search bar is shit. I know that this anon, whoever it is, is a proshipper, but I also know that some of my mutuals are antis, and whichever label I put on myself will probably end up losing me at least one mutual and I just don’t know what to do. Is saying that I don’t care about the labels a valid option in this situation? I don’t know what to do.

I’m sorry for venting in your inbox, I just had to get this off my chest. You don’t have to respond if you don’t want to.

--

Oh for fuck sake.

First of all, stop spreading the nonsense that antis promote, which is that "proship" means "problematic ship" and/or is a label for dark content.

The term originates as "I'm not an anti" and refers to the overall stance that dark stuff has a right to exist whether or not you personally like it.

In other words, your stance.

Second, man up and say what you think. If people are dickheads about it, block them and tell them how inappropriate bullying is. The fact that most people go "Oooh, I don't know where I staaaand" is exactly why bullies are allowed to run rampant through our communities.

Do you think I don't get threats by leaving anon on to make my inbox safe for you? Of course I do! But I get far fewer than I would if I acted spineless.

If you have mutuals who are truly antis, it's time they learned that they'll lose nice and reasonable friends by being harassing assholes who believe fairy tales about video games causing violence or the sexy equivalent.

--

Say "I think these terms are both dumb. I believe dark fiction has a right to exist, but I don't want to see it. If you think it's okay to harass real people to "protect" fictional characters, you are a terrible person. I don't need a label to say I'm anti-censorship and anti-bullying."

If anyone wants to cry about that, they suck and you should remove them from your life.

[am-i-the-asshole-official]

WIBTA if i wrote a psa about people who broke my tos

✏️⚖️ (< for identification)

i make character adopts on toyhou.se and deviantart. i like designing characters but i rarely ever use them so i put them up for adoption so they can go to good homes. i have a tos for adopting my characters, which everyone is required to read before i go through with the adopt. the tos has rules about giving the character to someone else, which is that the current owner of the oc has to ask me first. there s a few reasons for this:

1 i dont want anyone reselling my character for more money than they bought them for unless they add value to the character by commissioning art or writing because its unfair to me who created the character if someone upsells them without adding value. having people ask first let's me make sure theyre not upcharging my work unfairly

2 i dont want certain people owning my characters. i have trauma surrounding certain people adopting my characters and using them problematically. for example someone ill call A once made my black characters skin lighter even though my tos says you cant change my characters race or body types. someone else, B, put my character into a proship relationship which is TOTALLY BANNED in my tos. i have a public list of people who are NOT allowed to own my characters and the idea of them owning them makes me super uncomfortable because i know theyll use my characters for bad things

3 it lets me make sure that the new owner has read my tos

a couple months ago someone (ill call them C) adopted a character of mine named lupin. a couple of days ago i was looking at my designs and i saw that lupin was now owned by D. i checked the ownership log which said that C traded lupin with D but i dont know what character C got in return. i sent C a message asking why they traded lupin without my permission and they said they didnt think they had to because it was a trade and not a sale. i told them that i have trauma around people giving my characters to others without permission and C said that i should talk to D instead because they (C) no longer owned the character.

i went to Ds profile and on their user page i saw a blocked comment so i unhid the comment and saw that it was B thanking D for following B. this set off alarm bells because i know that B is proship which is why i blocked them in the first place! so i decide to look into D, i find their tumblr and i find out that theyre also proship, they ship incest and they reblog irredeemable media like the coffin of andy and leyley

D wasnt on my blacklist specifically but its against my tos for proshippers to own my characters under any circumstances and its grounds for revocation. i message D to tell them that im revoking the character because theyre breaking my tos but D refused to transfer lupin back to me and blocked me.

i reuploaded lupins profile to my account and reported the original profile to th for being a violation of my tos, and i added C and D to my blacklist.

WIBTA if i wrote a psa about C and D to warn other people about them? i just dont want anyone else to go through this

What are these acronyms?

[fortheloveofpiggy]

TW this is a rant about proship and comship! Tags will have more in-depth trigger warnings

Edit: OMG PROSHIPPERS STOP MAKING THIS POST ABOUT DEFENDING IF SHIPPING CHILD X ADULT OR INCEST IS OKAY OR NOT THE POST IS ABOUT THE LABLE I DONT WANT TO ARGUE WITH YALL ABOUT THAT ANYMORE.

This is my one post where all people on all sides of the proship debate can interact. Including proshippers. If that makes you uncomfortable then don’t interact. I hate echo chambers and I want to hear all sides.

Also sorry for cross tagging just want the opinions from all sides

Actual post:

I hate the terms proship, neutral ship, and antiship. They’re all extremes and I hate them. From what I understand the meanings are

Proship: support all ships no matter what even if they’re comships

Neutral ship: doesn’t have an opinion at all

Antiship: is anti any comship which is outrageous

If y’all don’t know comship just means complex ship or they enjoy more morally grey or imperfect ships. This can include things like human X different intelligent species (like aliens, furries, monsters) which most rational people don’t think is bad. But this can also mean kid X adult, family x family, or victim X abuser

I actually don’t identify as pro, neu, or anti because I think some comships are good and healthy. I think morally grey ships are important in media when done correctly. Especially since a lot of relationships are rocky and not always healthy and it’s good to show that in media. My own ocs personally aren’t in a perfectly healthy relationship because of their own issues. But this should be done respectfully and with care. Abuse shouldn’t be romanticized but people can be romantic outside of the abuse going on just like in real life relationships

But in a pedophilic fan fiction or art or an incest fanfic or art there is no such thing as a loving part of it. The relationship in itself is abuse because a minor being with a child is abuse and family members being together is abuse. It’s not healthy for anyone involved to romanticize relationships like that and frankly can effect reality no matter how you spin it because it’s representing something as normal to kids.

Right now a lot of neutrals, antis, and probably a lot of pro shippers are agreeing but that’s where my point really starts

The term “proship” and “anti ship” are too vague. If you say you’re proship you sound like you defend media where children are harmed. I understand the meaning is being proshipping and minding your business but that’s still what you look like and frankly that’s what the term does. If you’re pro everything then that means you’re pro the harmful stuff too

And the term “antiship” suggest that you’re anti shipping in general or anti any complex ship which is also unhealthy for us all because morally grey topics need brought up. Antis also are very very commonly okay with harassment when it comes to proshippers

And neutral ship is basically just saying you don’t have a opinion at all which is harmful because you’re suggesting you’re okay with the harm done on both sides. And I understand some people who are neutral ship agree with me and don’t just not care but I feel like majority is the former not the latter (based on what I’ve seen)

Also disclaimer if you’re neutral because of mental health or because you have better things to deal with that’s valid but identifying as neutral ship does put you in it and i instead suggest staying out of it entirely

So idk maybe we should make a term for the middle. I had a few ideas maybe something like middleship or intentship (intentship meaning enjoying or allowing all ships as long as the intentions are good and are not to romanticize trauma or abuse)

Idk everyone can share their opinions but if I see another proshipper say fiction doesn’t effect reality I’m gonna scream and if I see another anti shipper call all morally grey ships bad as if they done killed their grandma I’ll go insane

[emmett6]

i am being attacked by antis.

this is emmett. emmettnet, emmettverse, emmettland, emmettundead, emmettlab. whichever blog you knew me from.

i am a whump creator. i've been in the whump community for a few years now. and now, i am unable to share my work with the community on here because people are mass reporting me for being a proshipper, and Tumblr keeps deleting my blogs as a result.

(if that isn't the reason why, i would be more than happy to get the explanation from @staff that i've been asking for.)

now, that is speculation on my part based on the timing of each termination (it's after i put my pinned post in the whump tags).

but here are the facts:

months ago, i became comfortable enough to share proshipping content. seeing as how every other artist would link their nsfw work on here, i thought it was acceptable for me to do the same so long as the preview image did not violate any rules.

an anon asked if i was a proshipper, and i said i didn't ascribe to that label*, but i agreed with the philosophy.

*i don't have any choice BUT to use it now because my posts get removed for describing what the content is

note that this anon asked multiple people in the whump community if they were proshippers. it was the same person each time, same copy-and-pasted responses.

i kept posting my proshipping content, all with links and extensive content warnings.

i started getting anon hate.

my account was terminated. after further reflection and rereading the terms of service AGAIN, i figured maybe links are not allowed and so i switched to DM only.

this time, the anon hate was consistent. every week was something new. every day felt like bracing myself to open my inbox. i kept anon on, since i have so many people who feel uncomfortable sending asks off anon and didn't want to take away their safe space.

months pass. i go on hiatus for all of July. i find out someone stole my old nsfw art and reposted their edited versions of it to rule34, a site that i never wanted my work to be on. this person waited until the exact starting day of my hiatus to do this.

i come back to more anon hate in my inbox.

suddenly, out of nowhere, my account is terminated again.

i make a new blog. more anon hate. another termination.

lather, rinse, repeat.

i stopped doing DM only stuff. i figured, if i just link my other platforms and only post safe things on Tumblr, there's nothing in the rules against that. everyone has links to their social media.

i still get terminated. and again, i keep getting terminated after i post my pinned post in the whump tags. which -- speculation again -- leads me and others to think that these antis are stalking the whump tags, waiting for me to show up so they can mass report me and get me terminated.

i have NO idea what they would report, aside from claiming i'm trying to "dodge being blocked". which, i'm not. in fact, i say every single time i come back that i WANT people to block me if they need to.

but regardless, it keeps happening.

i'm losing a place i considered home.

i'm being forced out of a community on here i love so dearly.

and you want to know something funny? for some strange reason, i'm unable to block my anons. yup. an 'error' message comes up. and i'm apparently unable to report them too -- like reporting the one who called me a 'tumblr tranny' and said i would 'always be a woman' for hate speech. oops, sorry. error message.

by now, i've been called evil. told to listen to my intrusive thoughts. told that i should be on a watch list. told that it's disgusting that someone's mutuals still interact with me. told that i have no place in the whump community.

i know that's not true.

i'm so sick and tired of being treated like this. i'm tired of being dehumanized. and i'm disgusted with this behavior.

at this point, i'm just screaming as many times as i can. i'll keep losing blogs, because i know my attackers will read this and just keep on reporting me. what do they have to lose? nothing. they don't have enough of a conscience to care. and why should they? clearly, i'm a monster. i'm a piece of shit. i don't deserve basic respect, and i apparently don't deserve to keep my 'platform'. to stay in my community and to keep my livelihood.

my discord is emmettnet. send me a DM if you don't want to lose me, because there is no point in following me repeatedly just for every blog to be terminated.

if you want to reblog this to spread the word and show your support, i would be eternally grateful. but i understand if you choose not to; i don't want anyone to be subjected to what i'm going through.

thank you for reading.

[cherrielatte]

genuine question do you even understand what a proshipper is ? like youre okay with people romanticizing pedophilia and shipping minors and adults ? you think thats okay?? GENUINE question.

Hello! Judging from the way you worded this - I'm gonna be honest: I don't think you know what proshipping is. I was very close to not answering this because it was sounding a bit in bad faith ( and this isn't the first time I've gotten belligerent asks on the same topic) But well, I decided to give it a shot and give benefit of the doubt.

 I know it's common ground to jump onto proshipping with the idea that it means you romanticize pedophilia, abuse, toxicity, etc. It's the typical high ground taken when people hear that dark fiction enjoyers exist. But that's not actually what it means. It just means that YOU, as an individual, understand that a drawing is not the same thing as human being. Written characters are not the same as human beings. Harassing REAL people over a non existent character because they put them into situations that make you uncomfortable says more about the harasser than the writer/artist. Proshipping is about taking personal responsibility for your experience online. Not long ago, the idea of a proshipper was just considered having fandom etiquette (ie: Don't like; Don't read type of tag lines. ) I'm a proshipper and there are plenty of things I don't like & make me uncomfortable. But I also understand that I can easily not engage. I can filter tags so I don't see it. I can block people that make that kind of content. I can refuse to click on something clearly labeled as the content I don't like. I can control what I see. And I can also understand that that if someone draws something I don't like it doesn't mean anything about them in real life nor what they enjoy in real life. Besides, a lot of people that consider themselves proshippers are victims of abuse or have had to endure traumatic events in their lives. Engaging in what you might consider dark fiction allows people to cope and navigate through complex emotion/trauma and express themselves in ways they are not allowed to or haven't allowed themselves to. I've seen some people say "I've been through trauma and I don't engage in proshipping." And okay, I'm happy for you. But not everyone copes the same way you do. And no one should be held to the same standard. If we were all carbon copies of each other, maybe I would understand that argument. But that's not the case. I should also mention, that it's become a bit standard for people to only excuse those that have been through trauma to make dark fiction. But only if they publicly acknowledge what kind of trauma they have endured. I am 100% against this way of thinking. I do not think it is anyone's right to demand an account of my or anyone's personal traumas just to validate the existence of certain piece of art. No one is entitled to anyone's abuse story. If a person is willing to share, because they want to, that's the personal decision of the individual. But look, much of the horror genre (movies, books, tv, etc) wouldn't exist if we put these high censorship rules onto art as a whole and unfortunately, I see this happening more and more these days like discussed in this post about someone's experience in publishing gothic horror.

Going back to an earlier point, you have to really understand that the characters are fake. 100% fake. If I ship Sora ( KH) and Ash (Pokemon) neither of them are going to be upset about it because they don't exist. If I draw them kissing, it is a drawing of anime looking characters kissing. That's all. They don't look anything like real human people. Wasting energy fighting over fictional characters is just that. Wasting time and energy. Who are you saving? Ash? Sora? They don't need help, because they aren't real. Fight for real people that actually exist. I have seen people outside of the Soriku fandom genuinely upset about people shipping Riku x Sora because they are underage! Mostly because they are both male but without fail, they always slap on the argument: "they are kids, you sicko!" But you know why they go to that? Because assuming the moral high ground wins over arguments quickly. People are eager to be superficially perceived as morally good. I have seen people ship Riku x Ansem SOD, which could fall into that age gap - problematic shipping you referred to in your ask. But you know what? I get it. I see people interpret their relationship as one of abuse, metaphorical SA, manipulation, etc. I completely understand and see that interpretation and where it stems from. And unfortunately, there are many people in fandom that have had this exact experience. Honestly, without me needing to ask anyone specifically, I KNOW there are people in fandom projecting their experiences onto Riku and Ansem as a means to replay it with a bit of actual control. And even if there are people who don't. I'm not going to ask, because it's none of my business. So again, as a proshipper I am completely in control of my online experience. I can block, mute, filter, and not engage with the things I don't like or things that trigger me. But as long as it is fiction, it remains as just that : Something I don't like between characters that dont exist. I don't have to harass, bully, nor threaten people over fiction. Of course, there are bad apples in every circle. But to me, whether someone is a bad person or not is expressed through action toward real people and the intentional harm done onto them, whether it be through inappropriate interactions, abuse of any kind, exposing personal information, harassing family/at work, or encouraging harm. Those are real actions on real people and engaging in these actions is what counts to me as markers of a bad person. Not someone drawing two fictional characters that haven't aged in the last 20 years kissing or having sex. 

[vladdyissues]

I have a friend who is Anti and the truth is that whenever I try to come back from another chat with friends who are fans of Pompous Pep, he tells me the typical "how can you like that!? It's pedophilia,What do you find so cute in an adult with a child!?" And the truth is I don't know if it's because of your cute post and your beautiful coloring But...I think I see it romantically, I don't mean it in any way with age roles or anything but

A 14 year old boy snuggled in the arms of his older boyfriend as he signs papers for a project at his company Or the typical one that they are very romantic with each other, their romance themes are... sublime and I don't know, does that make me a pedo?

No, anon, enjoying a fluffy romantic age-gap relationship between two bug-eyed, made-up cartoon characters with barely-human body proportions does not mean you suddenly developed an attraction to real-life prepubescent children. Just like biting the heads off your animal crackers doesn't make you an animal abuser, and fantasizing about being Jabba the Hutt's sex slave doesn't mean you want to be trafficked in real life.

To claim that something as ephemeral and complex as fantasy has any indication on who we are as people is an egregious overreach, and those who would weaponize it against innocent people care more about maintaining a public veneer of ''moral superiority'' than the individuals they are verbally abusing.

Your friend* needs to leave the medical diagnoses to the medical professionals and acquaint themselves with a dictionary, because they have made it painfully obvious that they have no idea what "pedophilia" actually means.

*And I use that term loosely, because anyone slinging such vile insinuations at you over a cartoon doesn't exactly sound like a friend to me.

Below are some links I think you should check out. Not only will they help you understand that the things you enjoy in fiction are no indication of who you are as a human being, they will arm you with the information needed to combat these bullshit arguments that antis like to throw around to justify being abusive assholes to people they don't know. And who knows, maybe you'll be the one who helps your friend see reason and escape the shackles of oppressive right-wing conservative rhetoric once and for all.

⭐ Masterpost of Proship Resources

⭐ How to Limit Anti Influences in Fandom Spaces

⭐ Terms related to shipping and their usage

⭐ The meaning of "proship" and the concept of "proshippers" in Western fandom

[skumhuu]

not at all the other anon (and very VERY much proship leaning) but the "proship means you're against harrassment" definition has always seemed flawed to me because... i was an anti once. And from my direct experiences there are so many antis who have horrible opinions of proshippers but are also very firmly against harrassment—they're still antis and still hate us, viscerally even, they just keep it to themselves and to their friend circles. That doesn't make it harrassment and also doesn't make them less of an anti, they still believe awful things about us and would likely be hostile if we ever interacted.

The definition i typically use for myself to determine whether or not someone is a proshipper or not is if they believe someone's taste in fiction has any bearing on their real-life moral compass or not. If you believe it does, you're an anti. if it doesn't, you're proship.

(This isn't to step over your opinion at all—just sharing mine! I really apologise if this comes off as disrespectful in any way haha.)

No no you’re fine! 💚

This kinda goes back to the unfortunately widespread idea that proship=pedo/problematic. Because like, those people just sound like they identify with being an anti because all of their friends are antis, they have the wrong info, or are too scared to speak up.

Also please remember that my aggressiveness lately isn’t due to hate, I am more than okay with former antis and people who don’t know better, but at this point I’ve dealt with so much harassment and hurt that I’ve lost my patience.

Aligning oneself with the face eating leopards to stay safe doesn’t mean they’re going out to eat faces themselves, but they are enabling that behavior. Even if they aren’t hurting people, by displaying “proship dni” they’re okay with isolating particular kinds of people out of the fandom. They’re okay with inciting harassment, or standing by while others do it for them. And like, they can say they’re against harassment all they like, but they’re still siding with the face eating leopards, hoping they don’t eat their faces next.

Adding proship to my bio wasn’t what I wanted, but I keep getting people acting betrayed when they discover that I’m proship and attacking me that I felt forced to add it. I simplify proship down to ‘proship means you are against harassment’ because I keep having to have this same song and dance where people show up in my askbox demanding I explain myself, when in reality I’m a random sanscest artist like 😂😂😂 the situation is very nuanced! But y’all I’m just trying to make the skeletons kiss

I keep linking studies, and info about the situation, and the way you explained being proship is exactly what I keep saying over and over but in different words :0 I’m too tired to be sympathetic with the people who call me an unsafe pedophile over fiction, who fill my ship tags with hate/disgust while I’m trying to vibe, and I’m not going to tolerate the people who side with that anymore. Like I don’t care if they aren’t harassing others themselves anymore.

Literally look at the tmnt fandom, they ended up turning on “neutrals” and bullied the ever loving shit out of everyone, even those who didn’t care. If we tolerate that here, eventually it might get that bad too. I refuse to let that happen. I will NOT let the face eating leopards in

[zu-is-here]

Hi! I'm a healing antishipper, as of somewhat recently. I always hated the idea of it. I found your blog a while back and thought your UTMV art was incredible. I remember you posting some Dreammare, which made me pause. I found myself thinking it was cute, and my inner self was like 'shouldn't this feel weird?' but it never really did. I went to other blogs and specifically searched up proshipping and Dreammare to see their stance on things, and to my surprise, I found more proshippers, as well as people who were more in the middle. But most people I followed were antis. I explored the topic more and have thought long and hard about it before. As of now, I'm not really a proshipper, but I do enjoy Dreammare, drawing, writing, and reading about it, but I keep them all private. I don't hate proshippers at all, and if tags or topics make me uncomfortable, I just block them. It's scary being in this grey area though, because many of my favourite artists and friends are antis, hence why I'm doing this anonymously so that my mutuals and people I follow don't think I'm gross. I just wish people would let people ship what they ship because fiction≠reality. It saddens me that people dehumanize and bully people who are proshippers and it makes me scared about enjoying Dreammare. But I just wanted to say I'm grateful for your blog, because you have no judgement in ships and I feel safe here. You're doing great work Zu, I'm so happy I found you!

Hii!╰(*´︶`*)╯

Thank you so much for waiting, and for your kindest words too (〃ω〃) I'm so happy that you've found not only a safe place for yourself, but also yourself ♡

I know how hard it is to remain “good” for others — and true to your own interests. You're already doing the right thing by respecting others' choice and taking care of your own media experience (⊃｡•́‿•̀｡)⊃

Trust me, you're not disgusting for what you love. I do hope more people will understand this simple truth, and I'm looking forward to seeing your beautiful works one day (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵) Keep it up! ☆

[the-shipper-center]

I see a lot of people talking about the idea of "coming out" as a proshipper to ppl (irl or online), and then they put it like "Oh go tell your parents you shipp incest!!!" Wich already tells the person doesn't know what proshipping is. Proshipping, in fact, has nothing to do with the acting of shipping, so it means that not every proshipper will have the exact same taste over the fiction content they consume. Proshipping is an anti harassment belief of: Fiction is fiction, we shouldn't violate a person's space, doxx them or harass them over something that is legal.

But, if we are REALLY talking about "coming out" as a proshipper, just say, "i don't think it's okay to sexually/psychologically harass someone over fictional material. It's not real, and it's weird to put a pixel over a real human being." Done! You've "come out"!

[fight-nights-at-freddys]

Hello! Random person from Ponytown here.

As far as I know, proship is a stance that advocates for anti-harassment, anti-censorship, and "ship and let ship." And that not all proshippers are comshippers/darkshippers. Here are my questions:

What makes a ship darkship and/or comship?

What makes incest, loli/shotacon, and adult x minor appealing to some com/darkshippers? I'm aware that those who are into incestuous ships don't actually want to boink their siblings in real life, since, well, they're real people. It's more of a kink thing and the taboo nature of the ship itself that's appealing--not the actual idea of siblings being together if that makes sense. I don't know if that's correct but let me know if I'm wrong. I'd love to hear more reasons so I can understand better.

An anti take I see often is that fiction can affect reality. Do you agree with this statement? If not, why?

Sorry if I worded any of these questions wrong. I ask them sincerely as I want to further educate myself on proship beliefs. /gen.

hiii :3c

okay, so!

darkship means a dark ship. stuff like incest, rape, murder, cannibalism, that kinda stuff. comship means complicated/complex ship, which is usually just stuff like mortal/immortal, human/monster, age gaps, those kinds of things.

what makes it appealing completely depends on the person. for some, it can help process trauma. for others, (like myself) it's because we enjoy the dynamics. i like incest fics bc i want to see that kind of relationship played out in a way no one gets hurt, in the same way i like horror movies with a lot of gore for the same reason, if that makes sense?

so i think most of us agree that fiction affects reality to some extent, but it's not nearly a 1:1 comparison. it can make you feel things, but unless you're deeply mentally ill, you're not gonna act on those things, ya know?

if you have any more questions, or need me to go further into specifics, just shoot another ask!! :3c

[olderthannetfic]

This is a comment I just saw in the wild, and I need to know the real factualness/lack thereof of this from those who are more familiar with internet fandom history.

the evangelical prudishness of the early internet is completely separate from pro/anti ship dynamics. the idea of an anti was popularized in voltron fandom by teenagers who were uncomfortable being attacked by adults in "ship wars" for not liking a prominent ship between an adult and child. evangelicals are still being prudish and nasty online to this day and theyre not doing it with "anti, proshippers dni" in their bios

and to be clear i dont identify as pro or anti ship because im an adult with a job and a social life but i leaned so hard into the anti label as a teen as an effort to protect myself from harassment and grooming (and yes. adults were using proship dynamics to try to groom me. i experienced this from multiple people in multiple fandoms. it was not and is not an uncommon occurrence). if you think teen antis are prudish maybe consider why a child would feel the need to close themselves off and loudly proclaim their hatred of any complicated shipping dynamic. these kids don't stay this way forever, they grow up into adults with more complex viewpoints on sex and relationships because that's what happens to everyone as they age. the fact that most self proclaimed proshippers care more about prudishness (as though every teenager isn't a little bit of a fucking prude anyways) than they do about actual pedophilia and grooming. most proshippers arent trying to use it as an outlet to groom children but a considerable amount of them are and you have no fucking clue how terrifying it is to be a young teen and have adults falling all over themselves trying to convince you that it would actually be really normal for you to have phone sex with them

--

"Ooh, I'm a secret third thing!"

You can just about always assume someone is a jackass if they start with this bilge.

Voltron fandom was a major spreader of antis, sure. The objection was to the two characters with the "I'm the hot one" anime eyes being shipped together instead of one of the hot ones and the one with the "I'm the douchey womanizer" anime eyes.

All of these characters look about the same age, just with different eye shape tropes. All are soldiers. Ages weren't confirmed for a while. When they eventually were, hot eyes and hot eyes were 18 or over and womanizer eyes was under or something. Not that it matters.

It's a bunch of crybabies with a juggernaut shitty ship bawwwwing that a better ship was fairly popular but not as juggernaut despite them sending many, many death threats.

--

Most teens, in my experience, are drawn to cheesy Darker and Edgier extreme shit and get tamer as they age. No, they aren't all prudes. That's bugfuck insane to think. This person is a dumbass.

Adults trying to have phone sex with teens isn't actually that common, from what I've seen, and is clearly creepy in any era. This has nothing to do with fandom shipping.

I'm sorry they've had a shitty time, but this is either someone with a lot of trauma projecting or yet another attempt to drag irrelevant shit into the constant whining about other people's harmless fictional hobbies.

[ailoveuu]

Hello, and welcome to a series that I would like to call "what does an anti have to say", in which I watch a bunch of anti-proship videos to see if they can turn me into an anti!

Today, we are going to be watching "An Ex Proshippers advice" by Loki ZeGaymer. I found this video through someone on here (tamarahtalkstv), so major thanks to them for even making their own post about this and inspiring this whole thing.

Will I stop being anti harassment? Will I give up on blocking content I don't like?? Am I going to stop shipping bad ships (even though I keep it to myself 9/10 and have only mentioned my comships twice on this account)??? Will this be my last post before deactivating???? Let's find out together!

An obvious disclaimer, because the fact that I have to say this fucking sucks: don't harass this person. Being proship is all about being anti harassment, and if you can't be a decent human being over fiction, you are the issue. We are all humans, treat each other as such.

One of the first things that becomes obvious right off the bat, that actually gives this video so much more credibility than most others, is that this person used to be a proshipper! This is a very common rhetorical device, known as ethos. Believe me, I hate ethos, pathos, and logos discussions, but they exist for a reason. The fact that this person used to be a proshipper is them saying that they have experience with such things and can understand what they're talking about, in a way. They say both in the video and in the caption that they used to be a proshipper, so if you'd actually want to see how antis think, this could be helpful since they've been on both sides.

Although, an odd thing that seemed to show right after is the story of how they became a proshipper. The claim that they got groomed into proshipping is a common one, and I'm not surprised. Believe it or not, fiction can be used to spread ideas and connect to vulnerable individuals. My initial issue with this is that this wording, that they were groomed into proshipping, acts like proshipping in general is what caused this. Any type of fiction, even "legal" fiction, can lead to this.

I've had people in their 20's say that if they were my age, they'd have a crush on me. We met through harmless roleplaying. I was in a toxic relationship with someone I met through roleplaying, who happened to be an anti. Off topic, but I'm starting to think that roleplaying is the issue...but you get my point. Any and all type of fiction can be used against people. I know that toxic ex of mine did use "legal" fiction against me, and that's just how it is. Fiction can be used for malicious purposes. Any and all types.

(Also, jfc their ex sounds awful. Idgaf that they were 16-17, wdym you groomed a 14 y/o while in an online cult??? Ik this is about proshipping, but I genuinely hope they've recovered from this. Again, I speak from experience, that ex deserves to go to hell and back - and I'm the least religious person on this planet.)

Now, I'm gonna paraphrase, bc I don't wanna rewatch the clips 6383 times in order to get the exact quote. At 3:03, their claim is that "I've been groomed by multiple people, all of whom were proshippers. This contradicts their claim that fiction doesn't affect reality." All I'm gonna say, is that people who think fiction DOESN'T affect reality are stupid.

I feel giddy when I read cute fanfiction, I cry over sad scenes, I use it to cope! Fiction is affecting my reality, because I have let it. Fiction is affecting my reality, but not on a 1:1 basis. I'm a huge horror fan, I've been like that since about 3rd/4th grade. By this logic though, I'm a mass murderer, abuser, cult leader, and overall the embodiment of evil. Last time I checked, I've never killed a person.

At 3:39, they begin to talk about getting doxxed. I'm starting to think this person is like, my long lost twin bc I also got doxxed a while back, but not for being a proshipper. Ironically enough, that is exactly why they got doxxed. I haven't moved on past this part, but I'm going to make a prediction: I'm hoping that they say that this was wrong, they nobody deserves this, and that this is something that antis shouldn't do no matter how wrong proshipping may be. Was I right? Well...

Uh they didn't mention it at all past that. They didn't like, say "that's wrong", but instead they mention that they got therapy, and thank goodness for that! Idc that they're an anti, getting groomed and doxxed is not something you go through and be completely fine after. They say that they got therapy specifically for the abuse and not for the comshipping, which I agree with, esp since my own therapist agrees that people do use comshipping as a way to cope.

4:12, and now we're moving onto the whole anti-harassment claim. Oh no.

I haven't moved past that as of writing this part, but I'm willing to bet that they're gonna say "you can't be anti harassment and a groomer" which I agree with. Although that's just common sense. I don't think that it'll be worded right though because that'll just continue that idea that ALL proshippers are groomers, which this video literally contracts because I have faith that this person wasn't a groomer ever, esp not as a proshipper.

"They claim to be anti harassment while invalidating my trauma and misgendering my best friend." So that's a false claim and does not represent every proshipper...many proshippers are trans and use comshipping to cope with their trauma. If they're doing this while doing what you've claimed them to be doing then they'd be hypocritical. I am very lucky to have not experienced that myself, and I've never seen a proshipper harass anybody, but I don't doubt they exist.

"Even if someone is a proshipper, you shouldn't be harassing them; especially if they're a minor" common sense we love to see it <3

"Just stop and seek some help. It's not that hard to seek therapy." but for some it IS HARD. The fact that I can go to therapy and get treated for my anxiety is a privilege that so many do not have. Do NOT act like therapy is so easily accessible. For many, it is not. They said the same thing at the end for adults as well...

We don't blame horror movie directors for people being inspired by their movies to commit murder. Why is it a proshippers fault when someone thinks pedophilia and incest is okay? I know many people who write and create that type of content will explicitly state that they're against it irl.

So, that's just a bunch of yapping... what's my actual thoughts on this?

In my opinion, while this person is very, very brave for sharing their story, and I can only hope that they've managed to recover from everything that happened, I cannot help but disagree. A singular story is not going to convince many people that they're in the wrong, especially when the video was marketed as "advice" and the only thing said was "get help".

In the beginning, they said they didn't know they were a proshipper, which explains why they're even using the term proship in the first place! Proship is "don't like don't read" and being anti harassment. What they're discussing is comshipping, and not every comship is bad. It could literally just be mortal x immortal. Yup, that's a comship!

tldr: i was not convinced. this person was respectful, and I'm very glad, however I do not agree with this opinion. this video seems like it was made for antis rather than existing proshippers, as their advice was lackluster. I rate it a 4/10, and I am still a proshipper.