#I have literally exactly what Laios has .

[rubysparx]

Was rereading the world bible for one reason or another and came across this in Mithrun’s section. I was totally mistaken in thinking the pixies were an enslaved race of demihumans! They’re actually homunculi, which explains Mithrun having a “default” look for his;

(^daydream hour 5. From left to right and top to bottom; Mithrun, Pattadol, hooded canary always seen next to the vice-captain, vice-captain Flamela, elven queen, and the three familiar mages Flamela yells at)

I think this is a really exciting find because I’ve had this image here, from chapter 8, saved for quite a while;

It would seem the monsters shown here are; a ghoul, a spirit, a sting ray (??), winged big cat, minotaur possibly with a demon’s face, and a more aggressive looking pixie! Right now I assume the homunculus pixies used by the elves are based on the anatomy of these monster-pixies. And I really hope to see Ryoko Kui talk abt these monsters in the new world bible!

I think it’d be a really fun way to use the seelie and unseelie groupings. I’d love to see if the monster-pixies are truly insectoid monsters that just have forms similar to humans (like the dryads) or if they’re actually demihumans with a language or some kind of society (like the mammalian mermaids) or even culture!!

[5-htagonist]

i am genuinely so crazyyyy about lbruuuuu.... like Genuinely Genuinely. its pretty bad guise

[bastardlybonkers]

i feel like not enough ppl are factoring in the cultural clash between laios and shuro and the many micro agressions shuro faced while being in their group. literally the name 'shuro' in itself is one

his name is toshiro 😭 lets also not forget that he has his own communication issues, in the opposite way that laios does- thats literally a factor in their argument, that his envy for laios's ability to express himself sincerely manifested as part of his distaste for him.

ig all this to say like, was their fight heart wrenching, especially when reading laios as autistic? absolutely. anybody whos ever been in laios's position knows how much it hurts to realize someone you thought was your friend doesnt actually like having you around, especially when they didnt tell you and you had no way of knowing due to not understanding their cues. but im begging yall to step back and see the nuance of this situation cause im gonna be real a lot of you are kinda just brushing over it acting like everything is toshiros fault and that hes a terrible person when in reality hes an average guy who really, really clashed with laios and it led to a very long misunderstanding due to their supremely opposite methods of communication. even laios and toshiro, after letting everything out in their fight, were able to come to an understanding and start a foundation for an actual friendship built on better communication

ok yknow what Edit: i shouldve made it even more explicit at the end of this post, i hadnt thought i would need to since i started the post with this, but i think a few too many people are missing my point so i just wanna clarify. i shouldnt have said 'really clashed' and left it at that because yeah they did, but it wasnt just their opposite methods of communication, it is also very much that toshiro was experiencing microaggressions via laios. it may have been unintentional on laios's part, but it still happened and wore him down, made it harder for him to communicate on top of both the more subtle social cues that he was raised with and his own communication difficulties. i also want to say that the fandom reaction to toshiro and the complete ignorance of this point is also racist tbh or at the very least ignorant. i understand that the anime did not cover this panel, and neither did the manga, as this was an omake, but im gonna be real with you guys. there are enough context clues within the story to clue you into this. if you didnt pick up on it thats ok, but i think this is a good lesson in picking up subtext in the stories that youre watching and/or reading. kui shouldnt have to explicitly say 'by the way laios was racist to toshiro' for this point to be understood, and at the very least, when the author portrays a character in a sympathetic light (as kui clearly does) it should make you question Why they are doing so and what makes them sympathetic, rather than youre immediate and only reaction to be 'well i hated what this guy did/said so i hate them and they suck'. idk exactly how to finish this, just. idk. question your biases and gut reactions to things you see in media and stories, and think about whether or not theres subtext that youre missing.

[fumifooms]

I don’t like minimizing the importance and gravity of Laios and Toshiro’s fight into just being a childish squabble, even if to a degree it is framed that way, because to both of them it has a lot of personal significance and emotional weight and runs very deep to their characters… The fight isn’t nothing it’s a LOT, they made up but it’s not something easy to express and to get over for either of them which makes it all the more meaningful! I’m on both sides but there very much are sides, there’s no "they’re both having a ball, Toshiro and Laios hand in hand yay" side to the fight, that comes after

The fight with Toshiro WAS very scary to Laios, almost existentially so, but it’s moreso the "I thought I’d made a friend!!" bit and my god. My god actually

Like it’s not "just" about oh his friend liking him less than he thought, THAT IS SO MUCH. It’s a bond he thought he had being a lie it’s all the time and moments spent together either being a lie from his perspective or marred now looking back. It’s not only being upset at Toshiro for lying but upset at himself that he’s so easy to fool, it’s being upset that there’s something so wrong with you that you can’t even tell if your "close buddy" even actually likes you or not, it’s like. Holding my head. He can’t trust his own vision of events that happened do you see. There’s always this film of distrust that it could be a lie that should be there when he interacts with people there’s always this sense of cloak and dagger to expect backstabs out of nowhere because you CAN’T see it coming you CAN’T you CAN’T there’s something about you which makes it impossible so you CAN’T-

He’s so scared of not being able to read people. He knows it’s a weak spot he has, he’s always known. All of these bits are centered around social expectations and betrayals, the assumption that he doesn’t belong either in society or with other humans.

And Laios’ level of awareness is actually sort of complex to analyze, but it’s there, there’s how out of him and Falin he was the one sensitive to the ~aura of hatred~ he felt from the townspeople, there’s of course his nightmares whispering to him about the mocking looks, and how yeah actually he realizes that his gold stripper coworker was taking advantage of him. There’s of course the Winged Lion speech about his trauma and how he fundamentally mistrusts/dislikes humans to some deep seated degree, this distrust that he still keeps under control always. There’s how pre-canon he often wanted to suggest eating monsters but never worked up the courage to bring it up with the others. There’s how he gets across as stoic when he isn’t being enthusiastic…… We don’t know how aware and wary he is exactly in the moment but we do know he has some anxiety around social stuff, and looking back he does notice and aughh augh, the sense you have to hide yourself to not get hurt and be on your guard and shit and.

When you don’t know what to look out for and when to look out for it, the general ‘common sense’ of not always trusting people or noticing when someone’s messing with you becomes hypervigilance in social settings

"Man they really know what you hate huh". Being socially unaware literally plagues him, he knows, he knows it so well.

It’s so quick that it’s almost hard to digest how literal and blatant Laios summoning his monster to crush all the people who’ve hurt him is. His literal go-to coping mechanism for comfort in his literal monster-induced emotionally intense nightmares, saving him by taking away the upsetting element (the humans)

"Monsters are his coping fantasy, where they can whisk him away from humanity, all the hurt it’s caused him and its arbitrary rules" with the subtlety of a brick. Monsters are his comfort safe zone "because they kill humans" yes but no it’s because he pits them as the guardians against humans who to him are in the role of the agressors. To him they represent freedom from the shackles of what it means to be part of humanity, a fundamentally social species

[ambrosiagourmet]

Did Laios have a plan

... when he made his deal with the Lion? How much of it was intentional and how much of it was out of his control?

Well. If I'm being honest I don't really want to try and provide a definitive answer to that question, because I think the ambiguity is, itself, part of the story. I've gone back and forth a few times myself, and I don't think either category - "fully intentional" or "fully coincidence" - is entirely true.

That being said, I would like to point out a few things that I've seen taken for granted as true. Things that, imo, are much more about the character's perspective, or about what the character WANTS people to think (well, that's really just the Winged Lion).

Consider this not exactly an argument for "Laios masterminded everything from the start and saved the world with his cunning," but more... "Laios considered what he was doing more than people give him credit for." Make sense?

Alright then, let's go:

So to start with, I want to show every time (that I could find, at least) that the question of 'does Laios have a plan' gets brought up. This is specifically after his Ultimate Monster Form is revealed, to be clear - the question isn't about if he has a plan in general, it is if he has/had a plan when he made this specific deal with the Lion.

Here they are:

-

-

You'll notice, in all of these instances, there never really is an answer given to the question. Either because there is no way to get one, or, with Kabru at the end there, because he explicitly doesn't let Laios answer. There's even a bit of an arc here: we start with a sort of desperate 'I've mostly given up but maybe this isn't as bad as it looks,' then get a more optimistic 'maybe we really are saved,' and finally end on 'it all worked out in the end, so we maybe don't need to know.'

But, as much as there is some genuine growth in Kabru's 'accept the outcome, rather than dissecting the truth,' I also think it says a lot more about him than about Laios. Kabru is the one trying to handle his questions and his uncertainty - as he said, he wants to confirm his judgement of character. He wants to feel like he had control over things.

And he lets that go! But he also doesn't actually get the truth, either, and his implied assumption here (that Laios, the wide-eyed monster-lover, probably just followed his desires), still relies on his judgements and assumptions about Laios.

But okay, these bits are all focused on the characters theorizing about Laios. How about we look at the character who actually tells us the facts ("facts"): the Winged Lion.

The Winged Lion has quite a bit to say about Laios and his monster form.

He says that Laios hates humanity, and would rather be a monster

I've talked about this a bit already, but the Lion makes a lot of claims and assumptions about Laios that aren't necessarily true.

First of all, let's just make sure we clearly establish that the Lion is being manipulative here. That may seem obvious, but it's important to understand that there is a difference between 'the truth' and 'a version of the truth specifically framed to prey upon your deepest shame and insecurities about what you really want.'

To point out a few quick-and-dirty contradictions here:

If Laios really hated all other humans, then the Lion wouldn't hinge so many of his other arguments on Laios' love for Falin and his friends.

the Lion claims that Laios "[doesn't] even care enough about the future of [the] world to express an opinion about it," even though Laios has literally expressed opinions on what he wants for the world, to the Lion's face.

In general, the Lion does not make a distinction between urges and choices (see, for instance: him using Marcille's subconscious fear of the canaries as a way to keep her from stopping the monsters from attacking in chapter 86).

I'm not saying there is not a piece of truth here, but also... we are not our darkest thoughts, and we especially are not those thoughts as defined by someone who wants to hurt and control us.

But let’s move on to the stuff the Lion claims about Laios once he has been turned into his monster form.

2. He says that (or rather, acts like) Laios is under his control

The Lion really enjoys grandstanding about how Monster Laios is an ultimate tool he has control over. He gloats about making Laios fight the others, and has him smash through the magical barrier.

But smashing the barrier is kinda the only thing that Monster Laios actually does for the Lion. He doesn't attack anyone. He doesn't hurt his friends, despite Chilchuck thinking that Laios has "turned completely into a monster." And he certainly doesn't simply let the Lion go through with his plan to eat everyone.

This barrier smashing is actually an interesting and odd thing for Laios to have done specifically, so remember that one. I'll come back to it later.

But, yeah, to the original point... despite the Lion's dramatics, all that Monster Laios does is pose, smash up a magic barrier, and then eat him. Not exactly under his control.

AND SPEAKING OF EATING THE DEMON...

3. He frames Laios attacking and eating him as thoughtlessly violent

This one is pretty funny to me, and the Lion keeps it up for the whole scene. I'm not sure how much of this is his genuine understanding of the situation, and how much is him intentionally framing things in the most insulting manner, but like... truly. The ego involved in this. To see someone who has, multiple times, tried to stand against you - someone who has literally wished for your non-existence, to your face - to see this person attack you, specifically, and have your first reaction be 'huh, I guess he's a reckless weirdo to the core???'

Incredible stuff.

And this part, too:

He claims that Laios can't recognize anyone, that he's out of control. And yet, the Lion is the only person that gets eaten here. He is Laios' singular target.

Hell, Laios even specifically attacks one of the bodies that is actively hurting Chilchuck. I don't know if that was entirely intentional on Laios' part, but I do think it's notable.

The Lion torments Laios' friend, and when Laios does something that interrupts that action, the Lion reframes it as unhinged violence. I don't know, there's something here about the way that cruel people only talk about the things people do to resist them as violent, and ignore the violence that causes such resistance in the first place.

In any case, the main point is that the Lion insists on treating Laios like an unthinking animal during this fight, despite the fact that Laios is clearly trying to accomplish something here.

And what exactly is Laios trying to accomplish? Well, the Lion isn't entirely wrong. Laios is trying to eat something. He tells us as much.

And truly, everything Laios does as a monster points to this. He had a goal. And he accomplished it.

Let me back up a moment. I need to explain smashing the barrier.

So, Laios first starts considering how to kill the Lion when he is confronted with the fact that his only other choice would be to kill Marcille. Immediately and entirely discarding that solution, because of course he does, he tries to wrap his head around what defeating the Lion would even look like.

He clearly continues thinking about this, as a nearly identical conversation happens a few chapters later, when Laios is once again told that killing Marcille is the only way forward.

Only, this time, he's started to come up with an idea for how to do this impossible thing.

Harkening all the way back to the Living Armor chapter, Laios draws on the same lesson - if the Lion has made itself part of the world, if it has made itself into something alive, that means he can kill it. And eat it.

But there's an important extra detail to this. If he's going to try and kill (and eat) the Lion, he needs to strike when it’s vulnerable. He needs to strike when it's eating.

This is why he smashes through the barrier. Again, nothing else he does as a monster really benefits the Lion. He doesn't attack anyone else. The only command he obeys is to smash the barrier. Because the Lion has to think he has won for Laios to be able to eat him.

Beat him. For Laios to be able to beat him.

The question of why Monster Laios wanted to eat the Lion is, I think, the most ambiguous part. Was he curious? Hungry? Did he fight for his own life, for his friends, or for all of humanity? Did he know how to win because he had planned everything from the start, or because he was driven by an unquenchable instinct to do whatever it took to survive?

I don't know that it is possible to say for sure. But I do know that the Lion underestimates Laios, through it all. He underestimates Laios as a human, and he underestimates Laios as a monster.

And in the end, after he is bested, even then I don't think the Lion ever gets Laios. I don't think he understands how much Laios means his words about the Lion being burdened by hunger...

or what Laios cares about most...

or what meaning there is in life, for him.

So I don't buy what the Lion is selling about Laios, generally speaking. I don't buy that Laios didn't ever know what he was doing, and I don't buy that he was nothing more than a hungry beast.

Well. I mean. He was a hungry beast. But he was a more than that too. He was the Devourer of All Things Horrible. And he didn't just happen into that title by chance.

[sugar-grigri]

How about an analysis of Dunmeshi's latest episode?

What I find really interesting, and episode 17 made me realize it, is the extent to which Laios and Shuro are the opposite of what they portray, even worse: the image they might portray is actually that of the other.

Let me explain :

How does Shuro see Laios ? As someone stubborn and thoughtless, disconnected from reality to the point of using black magic to resurrect his little sister.

We know that Shuro would have made the same choice, which shows that even if he tries to deny it, there is a point of connection between them.

The key to these similarities and differences is Falin.

What Shuro loves about Falin is the tenderness in her every gesture, her compassion and understanding of every creature, and her smile.

When he sees this monster kill in cold blood, he realizes the extent to which he has lost his loved one, which is why he chooses to kill her to free his soul, thinking he has lost her.

But what Shuro doesn't realize is that he's exactly what he's blaming Laios for: he's stubborn and reckless, not realizing the danger and sacrifices his teammates are making for the sake of this mission.

He's also disconnected from reality, not caring about himself, his hunger or his fatigue.

Above all, and this is very interesting, Laios had said that he hadn't perceived that Shuro couldn't stand him because he was so happy to have him as a friend, that he hadn't detected any of these signals.

Shuro shares this blindness

Shuro repeats that this monster is not Falin, yet he sees her as such, to the point of embarrassment when the monster removes her blouse.

And that's the opposite of Laios, who sees his sister as the monster she is

Like the chimera Falin has become, he sees his little sister calling him and this super-cool monster.

He's the one with his feet firmly on the ground, he's the one who really cares about his team, taking care of himself and those around him through balanced meals.

The one who understands that Falin has many vital points, rather than allowing himself to be overwhelmed by despair, is Laios.

So when Shuro hits Laios, in reality he's not hitting a man who differs from him, he's hitting his own flaws, and his own failure in the situation.

This failure he projects onto Laios, a man brimming with flaws.

Not only does Laios reason with him, but if Shuro ends up taking the wiser path, it's also because he's literally fought against himself.

But it all goes even further!

Shuro realized his feelings, or rather how unique Falin was in her tenderness and altruism, towards every being, even the smallest.

But what set this whole cycle in motion was Falin's self-sacrifice, her own death.

Laios and Marcille are responsible for what follows, but they are not responsible for everything, as Shuro tries to believe.

Shuro refuses the truth

So he doesn't see Falin

He couldn't accept that her tenderness had led to his death

Nor that her tenderness gave way to extreme coldness and indifference

He won't accept his own blindness

So he hits Laios and his extreme sincerity that irritates him so much

Shuro can't see anything in the darkness of this dungeon, he's the one who's lost his footing so he has to get back up again

Laios has accepted to see everything, even the unavowable, the forbidden, the pain.

What Shuro sees in Falin is love

In Laios, what he sees is the truth

In reality, Laios has only told part of the truth; he is the other half.

But if he goes back up, it's not to abandon Falin, Shuro has to face reality, the truth, that Laios was the only one who could save his beloved. It was by fighting that he finally put his trust in Laios. And finally became a friend

[thechekhov]

Chekhov Reads Dungeon Meshi: CH52

Everyone else: surrounded by at least family or friends.

Senshi: just me and my trusty frying pan

இ௰இ

I feel like Kui-san created the perfect explanation for the artistic whim of 'I wanna draw high fantasy.... or maybe horror.... hmm.... and now I wanna draw cookbooks. And now I wanna draw steampunk!' and just made it work for her.

Queen shit, honestly.

Wow, dwarves are way more uptight than I thought. No drinking in the trolley?!

It's YOUR turn on the backstory, Laios.

Laios going into the military and then immediately backing out with a 'thanks but no thanks' is very... Laios.

He's also suddenly emaciated. This feels like there's parts being left out.

and ALSO why is Falin here???? Oh wait it's just another person.

.......so Falin was at the academy until her brother showed up and then ALSO DESERTED????? She didn't even graduate or anything? She just noped out one day???????

Marcille heart attack in 3.... 2....... 1................

"You literally came by and STOLE my girlfriend from school!"

Senshi you..... you literally almost died of starvation in a dungeon due to lack of planning and then just did Whatever and got by. 😂

Laios, did you leave your baby sister behind because the people were dicks? Is this just Laios telling it badly, or was he just a kid dealing with it badly?

And WHERE ARE THE PARENTS, WHY IS SHE EATING ALONE.

For being a fantasy manga, this has incredibly modern social issues.

Or maybe the issues in question are just timeless.

AAAAA MARCILLE WERE YOU LISTENING

The horrified, stupid feeling of realization when you're a little bit of an asshole, but not on purpose - just out of ignorance. Oooooh godddds, this is so real. This is so REAL!

It's so dumb how human this manga is. I love it.

...th...this metaphor may be getting a bit out of hand...... is it really as simple as eggs on bacon...????

okay............where are you going with this.......?

MmmmmHMMMM. I see. Hmmm. Interesting. HmmMMM. I....okay.

no, no, he's got a point.

But actually, was IS the plan here? He says that as though it's a workable plan but.

Is the idea to just.... eat Falin's non-human parts??? That's most of her. Up to her neck. You have, what, a neck and a head? Are you working under the assumption that there's more human parts buried in dragon meat? You're working under the assumption that she hasn't become the dragon as much as it became her.

Idk, man. It all feels very....... raw.

But I'm sure it'll work out EXACTLY like this.

Get your knife and fork, Kabru. You've been formally invited to dine on the body of Laios' sister who killed you once.

[laikabu]

I think what fundamentally tips me off abt the shuro discourses is that there's this common sentiment of "marcille should get pissed and chew shuro out for "chasing" falin/being mean to laios, give shuro what he deserves" which is just hilariously transparent on how self-righteous and projecting the ppl saying these things are bc it is so clearly not actually abt what falin and laios want. Yknow, a big theme in dunmeshi! I'd forgive ppl for not knowing abt the extra, but falin outright says she needs to make decisions and take stands for HERSELF and she amicably turns shuro's proposal down, which he accepts. She's not being preyed on or being taken advantage of and so she doesn't need some defense against what is very much an imaginary offense to make shuro look bad. And laios does the same! Laios beats shuro up and they come out with their grievances on the table and all honesty there, and they are explicitly on good terms by the end! The siblings clearly like him and see value in their relationships with him despite any conflict they had. That literally should be the end of it.

(Also, not a fan abt the way white fans want to write off the micro aggressions and "forgive" laios for something they have no room saying anything abt! Acting like it's impossible for him to be racist when there's a bonus comic of him (and falin) outright talking abt "savage" people on his hometown's mountains that were "barbarians" they killed onsight! Given this manga's emphasis on cultural disconnect you'd think we'd be smarter abt this!)

exactly LOL throughout the whole manga the touden siblings treated shuro with kindness and respect even after the big fight, so i'm really confused about the hostility towards him?💀

i noticed that in the anime, kabru doesn't actually give his name out at all, and all instances of laios saying kabru's name correctly were scrubbed, so i'm curious if this has anything to do with changing the "kapru" joke somehow since they did consult kui in changing small scenes. i guess we'll find out tomorrow.

[huginsmemory]

Thinking about how deliberately colour coded the touden siblings are to the winged lion. Like they have gold eyes and blond hair, directly correlating themselves to the winged lion by colour scheme... And when they both become monstrous, they BOTH are represented with feathers around their neck and chest areas; as the red dragon has no feathers but chimera Falin DOES is interesting as it points to something specific to Falin... only to be repeated when Laios shifts and has the same feathers in the exact same area suggesting it's something unique to the Toudens. I mean whether that really has merit is obtuse really, but if we're going for the winged lion representation angle it makes sense. Interestingly, Marcille also has blonde hair but she has green eyes; not so obviously tied to the winged lion, even if she ends up becoming the dungeon master.

And I wonder if it's a representation within the touden siblings at how by the end they represent/become the lion. Laios is very clear; by consuming the winged lion, he 'becomes one' with the lion, in the most base sense of what you eat you literally are made of... and also in how incredibly horny the panel is. And then quite literally his result of eating the winged lion he's doomed to forever feel hungry and never feel sated; the same thing the winged lion represents, desire without end. He becomes in a way, the winged lion, a human representative of him, after his body also quite literally becoming the human representative of the winged lion, when the winged lion walks around in his own skin. The two of them are foils; both driven by the desire to consume, one a monster and with a desire to consume chiefly humans, while for the other a human the desire to consume monsters, and they in the end swap places; the human becoming a monster and a monster becoming a human, each granting each other their forms. They become in that way instrinsically twisted, and the tables turn on the Lion as the Lion instead of feasting on Laios becomes the one feasted on instead in the same way the Lion normally feasts; again, Laios becoming the lion. Of course, the lion represents more than just un-ending desire, chiefly the portion which talks about the issue of capitalism unchecked desire and consumption. But I think in a way, perhaps that's what is also being hinted too; the way within a community people can help check other peoples desires or help people have desires as is seen in the end with both Marcille and Mithrun. A non-destructive representation of the winged lion one might say. Also, one may say he also becomes the true 'lord of the dungeon' as the winged lion ceases to exist, Laios now ruling instead, taking the winged lions place.

In regards to Falin there's perhaps less obvious or deliberate foiling in comparison, but I think she still by the end in a way represents the winged lion. Chiefly, I think, by her in the first place, being alive; the black magic that brought her back is exactly what invited the winged lion to their world in the first place; without the winged lions existence through the tapping into outside reality, Falin would not be alive. In much the same way, her flesh was created from the red dragon, a creation of the dungeon, and so winged lion. She's only alive in the beginning because of the winged lion, so she represents in a way that no other person does in the manga the winged lion; not a prey of the winged lion, but a creation, or something saved through the winged lion. It's also interesting to see that what she retains is her feathers (even if they're white, not gold) once she's again revived.... squints suspiciously.

Anyways I think there's probably also a lot more coherent things that can be pulled from this analysis but I'm just rambling on about it tbh...I need to reread the manga...

[saccharineomens]

i've been poking at this too long to care how visually appealing it is anymore. My headcanons for the main characters' sexualities, based on canon information! (has no bearing on ships.) Canon speculation below the cut.

marcille (bi): fascinated by romance and loves romance. we only see her show explicit interest in a male (fictional character (General Halleus from the book series she loves)), but i don't think she's fully straight.

falin (aro? ace? lesbian? genderqueer?): falin's only interest in relationships in canon is 'she considered accepting shuro's proposal because she was afraid nobody else would want her, but felt it'd be unfair to him because she had no feelings for him'. i consider whether she's aroace or a lesbian or maybe bi/pan, and she also seems like she might have some genderqueer feelings, based on some of her discomfort with her body and wearing certain types of femme clothing. (Also the fact that she‘s part male dragon.) Since she ends the story going on a journey for herself, it feels like she'll finally get the chance to figure out what she wants.

laios (pan, demi): he hasn't shown explicit interest in men, but similar to marcille, i don't feel he's fully straight. He’s aesthetically attracted to monsters, at the very least, so gender probably doesn’t factor in for him. romance/sex just don’t seem to be much of a high priority to him in general, but he did think his ex-fiance was cute and didn't seem uncomfortable with the idea of marriage (just seemed unhappy with being trapped in his hometown), so i feel like demisexuality fits him well.

About his succubus: He was very noticeably not stopped in his tracks by it like Chilchuck and Marcille, but that could possibly be because it just….looked exactly like Marcille, not an obvious fantasy. He started blushing and stammering heavily when it turned into a monster, which like….this boy is definitely a furry/monsterfucker, if anything, but that doesn’t speak on his attraction to actual humans.

I think it speaks for something that the succubi are able to literally read minds and craft the perfect fantasy for their specific target. And for Laios, it wasn’t just “his friend Marcille”. It was a version of his friend Marcille that wasn’t grossed out by monsters, didn’t think he was weird for wanting to be one, and was able to turn Laios into one. It was a Marcille who understood him at his deepest level that made him become a blushing, stammering mess to rival Chilchuck. Which is why I think he’s Demi, and needs a strong emotional connection with someone before he finds them attractive.

kabru (pan): his special interest is people, and he's bold enough with his sexuality to kiss rin despite not being in a relationship with her. so being pan/bi feels appropriate.

chilchuck (bi): he has a wife, and they were childhood friends, so he's definitely allo. but his comments and behavior towards senshi makes me suspect he might be bi, and just never considered the possibility due to being in a committed relationship.

senshi (gay, ace): this is 90% off of vibes. he keeps to himself in the dungeon and doesn't seem to have any need for social company, he's a complete hermit. Being ace makes sense to me, but so would him just having a low social drive. His succubus was 'a woman he hadn't seen since he was a child', but his journal implies it wasn't a romantic/sexual attraction.

namari (bi/lesbian): she is at the very least attracted to women, given her behavior with kiki, but she does make a point to say that kaka is also attractive to her, and her friends at the bar tease her about Kaka being her “new” boyfriend (implying previous boyfriends).

shuro: the token straight (in love with falin, asked her to marry him). i love you shuro <3 (but i can also see him being into men. there's no evidence to the contrary)

izutsumi: aroace. literally no question. her succubus is her mother.

[tanoraqui]

Dungeon Meshi Liveblog: Musing on Ages, & Dragon Prep

"Desire" mention - how much does Tensu know of the details of the origin of dungeons? (More than I do, probably...but I know this is thematically important.)

"Us"? Aren't gnomes another long-lived species? Ok this is going to be continuously relevant to the geopolitics so I need to break it down. From the wiki:

Elves: lifespan: 400; adult at 80

Gnomes: lifespan: 240; adult at 40

Dwarves: lifespan: 200; adult at 40

Tallmen: lifespan: 60; adult at 16

Orcs: lifespan: 55; adult at 14

Kobolds: lifespan: 55; adult at 13

Halffoots: lifespan: 50; adult at 14

I see - so really we're dealing with 3 factions: Elves, Gnomes & Dwarves, and Everyone Else. I find it interesting that the longer-lived races reach maturity at 17-20% of their average lifespan, while the younger-lived races all do so at around 25% of their average lifespan. I feel a little like this is a cop-out on the writer's part in trying to keep the ages of maturity a little closer to one another - though of course it's a cultural thing by each race (and, I'm sure, each culture within each race - idk how monolithic the whole comic will treat them, but it would track with the thematic worldbuilding for their to be multiple distinct social groups within each race, even if they do tent to band together against the other races!)

Based on the categories of "long-lived" and "short-lived", the latter seem to view all of the former as much the same - but I'm SURE the Elves have a different view of it, and I'm sure the Dwarves and, as we see here, Gnomes, are very aware of and irritated by the Elves' view.

...and as we see here, and earlier with Chilchuck admitting to being 29 (solidly middle-aged!) and Marcille going, "Aw, so you are a kid!", people rarely make any effort to understand each others relative ages, instead just coasting on their own life-based assumptions.

With reference to above, we can see that Namari at 61 is pretty exactly equivalent to Kaka and Kiki at 20.

Also: this little scene wasn't in the show at all and I love it! Namari in mentor mode!

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ALRIGHT RED DRAGON TIME!! Hey look, literally the 2nd panel in this ghost city is 2/3 winged lions by volume. Hmmm...

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I love how it's explicitly Shuro's job to get the final killshot, presumably because he has Feats for this (ie, cool-looking moments) as a "real" anime character (Easterner). This literally bears up with what we see of him in the future.

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Chilchuck: I will NOT fight!

Chilchuck: I'll totally be dragon bait with you, though.

Chilchuck: Not that I care if you succeed or survive or anything! I'm only here because you paid up front.

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Laios using the Inspiring Leader speech feat! They're all having a Heroes' Feast before fighting the dragon, a classic pre-dragon act for bonus HP and immunity to being Frightened! I know this isn't actually D&D but that post that I think came through my queue earlier today is right: it DOES have the same bones. It's like reading the Locked Tomb and being aware that this author was deep in Homestuck, or Scholomance vis a vis Harry Potter canon and fandom. I know where this writer has been, because I have been there too.

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THE BOY IS HERE! THE MAN THE MYTH THE OVERWORKED* LEGEND!

THIS SISTER-EATING MOTHERFUCKER!!

*Crack AU where the whole dragon fight is averted because it talks and somehow the conversation leads to Chilchuck going, "And the Mage isn't even letting you sleep? Tsk. You've got to start a union." And then Laios gets all starry-eyed, "A Monster Union?!" And then the Mage is eventually defeated by all the monsters of the dungeon, and also the poor sane ghosts as well, unionizing against him, and "king" becomes just the title for the Union Rep, whose main job is to honk an airhorn at presumptuous Elves and tell them to fuck off like a Canadian goose.

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I LOVE THEM SO MUCH

[lemon-wedges]

Hello!!! I love your art and your style. I'd love to hear your inspirations behind how you draw and, in addition, hear a bit about your painting process (I love the impressionistic look your paintings have)

ahh!!! thank you so much ;u;

Ill tried my best to break down my thought process behind my drawing, so i hope this all makes sense aahaha

undercut cause it came out real long

SO Karl Gnass is an instructor that i took an anatomy class with. and who broke down anatomy in a way that really helped me grasp space. like space a figure occupies. and from that i think my characters feel a bit more...grounded? im not sure what the right word would be but tangible is something people sometimes say about my art.

And i do think when youre able to make a figure look like its really wrapping its hands around something it makes character interactions a lot more intimate.

heres a few under sketches i do when i start a drawing (i am trying REALLY hard not to use my nsfw ones tho those are pretty perfect when it comes to showing u anatomy RIP)

after i got the poses done ill turn down the opacity and rough sketch out details on top of these. and once THATS done i move onto lineart. and the most important aspect of this step is NOT TO TRACE YOUR UNDER DRAWING!!!! thats what sucks the life out of your work!!!!

instead you use your undersketch as a guide. ilI actually redraw the simple anatomy underneath very lightly, erase where they over lap and then add line weight variety + darken up the details.

examples of this are gonna look a little messy but. Left is the original pose i drew out with rough details. right is the drawing i do on top of it. you'll see theyre not one to one and theres some lines i didnt fully erase out when redoing the anatomy. i find my clean up has a lot more energy when i do this.

the thing about my style is that you'll notice i never actually do actual clean smooth lineart. and thats because i HATE DOING THAT SHIT. like i did learn how to do it and consistently forced myself to do it for over a year. and while i do think i learned a lot about line weight and drawing clearer. i realized? its just not for me. I like a textured brush and i like being able to see those small lines i didnt get to fully erase out because i think they look cool lol and thats ok!! do what you want forever man!!! its your art!!!

Also before i move onto painting ill show you this neat little trick. you know those more "loose" drawings of mine that feel more gestural? the begining process is exactly the same. the difference is i use a chunkier pen and try to see how much i can simplify details + just feel out the energy of lines

NOW PAINTING.

man. where to even start.

the thing about painting is that its an entire different set of skills that need to each be honed on their own and will slowly build up together. ill break it down like this.

VALUE, COLOR, and TECHNIQUE

I've said this on another ask before but you'll notice ill do a lot of black and white sketches. and i do that to practice choosing how to group values.

like this example. how light is laios' wolf coat compared to his skin? or kabrus skin color compard to laios coat. when do you want to really push the contrast of light and dark and when do you let values be closer to each other when you DONT want attention

the next step from this is adding a light source.

and when you're working in black and white its a lot easier to pay more attention where you want your light/how its gonna look like hitting youre characters and how far youre gonna push your shadows.

and you know if you get good at this you can play with limited color palletes

this is literally just be picking out blues and hitting the bottom with the gradient tool to light it up

NOW COLOR

is a lot harder and also very subjective. I do a ton of impressionist studies where i just color pick the fuck out of a piece to see what colors masters used + knowing the history of paint and what colors were available during that time period. +knowing what colors = what mood + knowing what colors to use when you want to be more realistic vs when you want to lean into more stylized+ what colors YOU specially incline towards + AHHHHHHHHHHHHH

its a lot and im actually still learning myself

But when i do a painting i collect a LOT of refrences of the kind of mood i want my own painting to feeling like. I've show the first example in another ask before but heres one from my latest labru too

WHen i actually start a painting tho they look like this. The top drawings are just flat colors with a simple outline of where i want the light to be hitting. like in my value studies im just trying to get the idea down, seeing what values need to be darker vs what is lighter. and how the light source covers the character.

figuring this out in the begining makes the rest of the painting so much easier because youve essentially made all the big compostion decisions NOW. from here you can start playing with colors.

my second stage, youll see with drawings at the bottom, is when i start using my texture brush to lay in extra shadows and just play with variety.

and then? i start rendering

that would be TECHNIQUE

And well....thats also something thats gonna be very subjective.

With my own style im not interested in rendering everything to perfection. Im trying to figure out how to texture hair/skin/clothes in ways that make them feel like the materials they are while also showing the energy of my brushstrokes.

I dont zoom in while i paint btw. everything i do is zoomed out so i can see the entire drawing. it helps me not tight up my strokes while also letting me build up all areas of the painting equally. the only time i zoom in is when im lining out the eyes/mouth of a character. and yeah. it drives me insane doing this because ITS SOOOOO Tempting to obsess over paint 1 area forever then zoom out and see that nothing matches lol

The other thing about my style of painting. Is that im not gonna use the exact same formula for every piece. like this isnt cell shading. you can have an idea of how to texture skin/clothes/hair and sometimes it looks great and beautiful in one painting and then it looks like shit in another. ive overhauled a lot of paintings multiple times because what i thought would work doesnt and ive had to force myself to explore and play with my brushstrokes. and you know? i wouldnt have it any other way. it means none of my paintings are gonna look alike! and i think thats pretty cool :D

ill leave you with this in the end. a painting im in the middle of doing and debating to overhaul cause im just not feeling the strokes. who knows what ill look like in the end

anyways i hope this helped a little? even if you look at all this and go. IM NEVER GONNA DRAW LIKE THIS BOZO ahahah

BUT I WISH YOU LUCK ON YOUR OWN ARTS :DDDD

[sketchstudios07]

I haven't posted art in some time, but here, have some of my D&D ocs interacting with the dungeon meshi party, because it's fun! I drew them with the ones i feel like they're the most similar to either physically or personality-wise. I doubt many people will see, but i'd love to see more people doing this. Here we go!! :}

Marcille and Anne (she/her). She's an elf cleric and also my first character ever! So there isn't much to say about her. I feel like she's just this calm presence, Marcille could have some of that comfort every now and then. They'd definetly bond over hair care and magic, despite working in different fields. In a way, I feel like Marcille would find Anne similar to Falin, or like an older and wiser version of her. Anne could also give some advice on the whole "being scared of death thing", having a short-lived partner and all.

Chilchuck and Heron (he/him), tiny dads! Heron is (obviously) a halfling, but for his class he's actually a homebrew pirate! I think they have plenty of stuff in common to talk about, both of them are often made fun of by their parties for their size, which is fun. They're also both dads, only Chilchuck has 3 girls (4 if you count Izutsumi) and Heron has 4 boys, maybe they'd argue over what's better, idk. Chilchuck is grumpier, but i feel like both have that "Oh my god what are you doing!? Are you an idiot?" attitude when the party does their shenanigans. These two would be good friends, maybe Chil is a bit envious of Heron's stable family though

Laios and Deliz (he/him). Deliz is the character i've been playing the longest, he's a kalashtar sorcerer (with some druid levels). I think it's not hard to tell that they'd bond over hyperfixations. I doubt Laios would be able to answer Deliz's questions, but there's plenty of cool monster stuff to talk about! I wonder what Laios would think about all the weird creatures that possess and infect people in this other world. These two would be great friends, no judgement about "weird" behaviors, just vibes. I also feel like Laios would be super interested in what a "kalashtar" even is, or how powerful Deliz is compared to most adventurers he knows, despite him being so young (21).

Izutsumi and Spark (she/her). The cat girls! Spark is a tabaxi sorcerer that is also a literal child, so I feel like Izustumi would be done with her shit really fast lmao. Kind of like, when a child wants to impress a teenager, but they keep annoying them? Exactly that. Doesn't help that Spark is pretty energetic too. At one point or another though, they'd grow on each other. Izutsumi would never admit it though

Senshi and Lilium (she/they). Not much in common between these two, Lilium is a tiefling druid and Senshi is like, a fighter(?) dwarf, buut they'd get along really well. I feel like senshi would be the calm and nurturing figure this anxious little lesbian needs. She's been through a lot and needs a place to rest every now and then, and maybe drinking a cup of tea with some warm food is the right choice after some adventuring, right? (Also can you tell i didn't wanna draw Senshi's helmet? ITS SO HARD TO DO SIDEWAYS AND I DIDNT FIND ANY REFERENCES)

And a little bonus:

(Azzazel (they/any) is my friends character, they'd spark a whole other convo w/ Laios tbh)

[prismatoxic]

chilchuck tierlist of babysitting fentripp, people who he absolutely knows he can count to not kill his child and people who he knows will end up doing something wrong (even if by accident)

GOOD QUESTION ANON

the original post about my chilaios fankid, fentripp, for anyone who didn't see it

anyone who isn't here hasn't offered or chilchuck hasn't considered. however i can be persuaded to add more entries with compelling arguments for them

S TIER

Kabru - follows the rules to the letter. will have fen fed, bathed, taught, played with, and asleep by all the exact right times. if anything diverges from the plan, it's because fen is a goblin, not because kabru did anything wrong. fen likes when kabru reads to him, he does funny voices.

Senshi - follows his own ideas of what's best, but shockingly good at it nonetheless. very careful, and considerate, and makes sure he knows where fen is at all times. fen likes him a lot and they always have a really good time together.

Meijack - doesn't want kids of her own, but is pretty good with them anyway, and she's extremely protective of her little brother. knows exactly what chilchuck expects, and also has a pretty good sense of what he'd approve of when instructions are unclear. strikes a perfect balance of making fen have so much fun that he doesn't realize no mischief is actually being caused.

A TIER

Laios - tends to stray off the beaten path a little, but will always defer to his husband so he's never gonna get too wild with it. he also loves fen more than life itself and won't intentionally put him in any manner of harm's way, no matter what. maybe doesn't count as a babysitter since he's literally fen's other dad, but as far as chilchuck is concerned, anyone outside of himself is a risk if he's not also there, so.

Falin - fen is obsessed with her, and the feeling is more or less mutual. she loves him so, so much. but... she's also maybe not chilchuck's ideal as far as babysitting goes, because she's extremely susceptible to the puppy eyes. can drop down to d tier for a few weeks if fen manages to lead her on some batshit adventure, but generally speaking, chilchuck trusts her.

Yaad - similar to kabru in his ability to follow chilchuck's guidelines to a T, and fen does seem to like him, but he's not always fully prepared for what caring for a young child entails. still, he's a decent enough choice, if he's available.

Dandan - weirdly good at this. chilchuck left the guild to him for a reason--dandan's got a good head on his shoulders, something that's only become more true over time--but "babysitting" wasn't a skill chilchuck anticipated him having. he might shirk responsibility from time to time, but in a "alright, you can stay up an extra hour" way, not a neglectful way.

B TIER

Marcille - fen is safe with her, and she'll do her best (and so very badly wants to be the best aunt ever), but she tends to overthink things and can get distracted easily. also, the older he gets, the angrier fen gets if she mentions magic, because he thinks elves are abusing the spirits. (she tries to default to gnome magic around him but he still side-eyes her for a while. don't worry, they bond properly when he's more self-sufficient.)

Namari - a little nervous about caring for a kid by herself, but she's actually really fond of fen. she does most things right, and chilchuck's not necessarily ideologically opposed to her teaching his son dwarfish swear words, but she's more interested in having fun than being a guardian so she's not the perfect choice.

C TIER

Flertom - perfectly decent, most of the time. loves getting to care for a child (desperately wants her own someday). can get a little sidetracked playing pretend-mom, though, and doesn't always have the best ideas for what to do, which doesn't always end well.

D TIER

Puckpatti - way too scatterbrained for this job, and also way too eager to goof off in whatever way fen indicates he thinks would be fun. she's alright with her sisters since they tend to override her poor decisions and keep her on track, but by herself, she's a last resort.

Izutsumi - basically an older sister to fen, but this is rarely a good thing. he loves her and they have great fun together, but leaving them alone is a recipe for disaster, and even kabru's had to step in and shut the idea down officially. "don't put me in a position where i have to explain how a cat and a toddler burned down an entire castle wing."

F TIER

Shuro - not good with kids. actively kind of scared of this one in particular. will agree if asked, but that's because he's bad at saying no, and chilchuck doesn't intend to ask. (and laios needs to stop thinking it'll work out for anyone.)

Mickbell (& Kuro) - only offered to be a nuisance, or at least that's what chilchuck assumes. kuro might be able to handle it on his own in a pinch, maybe, but there's no point trying to peel him and mickbell apart when there are so many better options.

Mithrun - with kabru? passable. by himself? absolutely the fuck not.

[chuckeroo777]

Dungeon Meshi Volume 14 Part 3

Eat or be eaten. There is no hierarchy. Eating is, quite simply, the exclusive privilege of the living.

Come on, it's time to eat! What shall we have today?

I think the real takeaway from Dungeon Meshi is that cannibalism is a firm "maybe".

Slurp!

I remember seeing a post a while ago about Dungeon Meshi being fatphobic, and while I kinda see where they're coming from, I don't really agree. It's not exactly controversial to advocate for healthy eating and moderate exercise. While the body types could be a bit more diverse, especially in the main cast, Kui clearly has respect for people of various body types. Have you seen some of the daydream hour stuff?

They know him so well. Chilchuck in particular I think understands best. After all, his succubus becomes what he most desires, but it isn't what he wants.

I love this grumpy old gnome who spits nothing but facts.

This whole sequence is very nice.

So, I know this isn't literal, but do you think Falin would have been able to fully expel the dragon's soul? But even if she could, she chose kindness instead. And that's really nice.

I wonder what the demon thinks about all this. Has it actually learned any sort of lesson from all this? Either way, it at least seems to be taking its defeat as graciously as one would hope.

A precious image. It's all been leading up to this.

So, all the changes I've noticed. First, she has feathers covering most of her body. Some haven't grown in yet, but the coverage seems to match her chimera form, leaving her hands, feet, head, and tummy bare. She has large canines. She might have enhanced strength, though she was known for bashing heads in before her transformation too, so it's hard to tell. She also has normal eyesight, as opposed to her previous nearsightedness.

God, she is just like me.

WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE?!?!

Everyone loves pizza.

I still say familiars are the best solution. He can both make his own monsters, and observe real monsters through the eyes of his creations.

Oh, quit your bellyaching. A quick detox spell will have you right as rain.

An adorable image, and a fitting ending for an amazing manga.

Of course, it isn't quite over yet.

Glad to see she's doing well. Cat's would totally do this if they could talk.

This is so cute. Just like when you were in school!

Was it ever established what the heck living armor eats? Most shelled mollusks rely mostly on filter feeding, but that doesn't work so well in a terrestrial environment. Then again, we know monsters can supplement their diet with mana, and the mana in this dungeon awakens Kensuke later, so maybe they're super efficient to the point that they only need mana. And iron.

I love these dumbasses.

An important image.

Have I mentioned I love the dynamic these guys have?

One final precious image to end things off. What are the odds his wife is just off-screen?

Thanks to everyone who joined me for this tasty journey. I still have some other stuff cooking, so stay tuned! The Laios Got Eaten AU might be a bit. I'm struggling to figure out how they defeat Thistle or the Demon without Laios. I also have another AU I might write involving an OC. We'll see.

Have a great day, and may all your Meshi be Dungeon.

[bornwholocker]

Yeah I’m making another character rant post sue me, but it’s actually crazy to me how many people I’ve seen just going full hater mode on toshiro?? Obviously you’re allowed to not like a character, but people are villainizing him so hard, it’s wild. Like as an autistic person who has had people pretend to be friends with them, yes that shit HURTS. And the way toshiro went about his relationship with laios(especially for so long) definitely wasn’t healthy, but also like. It’s so much deeper than that?? And I’m glad I’m starting to see more people talking about this lately because honestly, it’s right there guys.

First things first, I do want to remind people that being “polite” and not telling people you don’t like them, but subtly signaling it, is still the standard in most social situations! And it doesn’t make much sense to me and it sucks for a lot of people and causes miscommunication, but it’s not like toshiro’s some big bad evil guy for following unspoken social rules that most neurotypicals also follow. Also also, given that dungeon meshi’s setting is definitely not modern, the characters probably don’t know what autism is! They just know that Laios is weird about monsters and doesn’t do well socially. All the characters have problems, many of which are accentuated for us by how normalized a lot of things are in a modern world, and a lot of things not being acceptable/normal. Obviously these are still issues for the characters, and are addressed/resolved as such, but we need to put it in perspective just a little bit.

Toshiro lashed out because A) he had just gone through some CRAZY ASS SHIT, which I feel like no one brings up. He just learned that his party companions used illegal magic that pretty much everyone agrees is dangerous on the woman he loved (yeah the way he proposed to falin without any previous communication was weird but that’s a whole nother can of worms), and it ended horribly for her! and B) he was exhausted. He had just gone days with little to no food, very little sleep, and there’s Laios, well fed and rested and to toshiro, not at all treating the situation with the seriousness it deserved. And it just hit home with how much he and Laios had clashed, how Laios was so open and honest about every little thing, and oblivious to what toshiro thought was extremely obvious. Toshiro had been raised to be quiet, polite, respectful, etc. and as a result learned to bottled up his feelings, so when he saw Laios being able to say whatever was on his mind, he understandably envied that. Even though we know that it’s difficult to be on Laios’ end, toshiro saw it as a privilege. Not only that, but he had been trying to signal to Laios (not exactly effectively but) how he felt for YEARS. And his point never made it. Everyone talks about Laios being misunderstood, but what about toshiro? What about his years of trying to communicate in the way he knew, and not being understood? I think everyone knows exactly how frustrating it is to feel like we’re being SO obvious, only for it to still cause miscommunication. So why not extend that understanding to toshiro?

Aside from all this though, it’s still clear that he does care about Laios, even though he’s annoyed by him. He literally gives Laios a bell that, when rung, would ring a matching one and be a call for help. Another example- which albeit anime only’s probably won’t know, I only know because I saw the panel- is in the finale I think, toshiro defends Laios to the elves. He sticks up for him and places his trust in him, even after everything.

Neither side was really in the wrong, but people are bashing toshiro like crazy. Unfortunately we don’t have a lot of big scenes with him outside of that meeting in the dungeon, so most of our opinion is formed off of that one moment, but that moment tells a much bigger story than just, “toshiro bad and ableist, laios poor autistic puppy.” It’s been said countless times on this hell site and beyond, but I am BEGGING people to please have a little critical thinking as a treat. Like Ryoko Kui wrote this story and the characters so much more complex than good guy and bad guy. (Slight spoilers maybe) Not even the BBEGs are really all bad, when you get down to it. Everyone’s feelings and experiences are shown from their perspective and contextualized to the audience extremely well IMO, which is one of the reasons I love dungeon meshi so much. Anyway point is think deeper folks.