#I feel like what happened in ep 8 and 10 should be examples of that | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

sapphia · 4 years ago

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alright so i don’t write fanfiction anymore and i haven’t even really been in this fandom for years, but if i was writing supernatural, here’s how the destiel thing would have played out:

they gay plotline would happen about season 9-11, pacing wise. cas and dean are close and have a shared bond, and know each other pretty well at this point, but things haven’t started getting repetitive yet plot wise. the season big bad is irrelevant because lets be honest they’re all pretty much the same.

dean and cas have spent their time in purgatory together, and i’d move the purgatory reveal flashbacks from season 15 into season 8 alongside the normal flashbacks.

you have your usual series opener in episode one with the massive conflict semi-resolving but also setting up the season’s big bad. at this point in episode one, cas sacrifices himself for dean specifically, but also helping advance the “mission” - however, while one of them had to die to keep the other alive so the job could be finished, it could have been either of them, not necessarily cas.

this of course spawns a bit of emotional angst, with dean being hit pretty hard by cas’s death. there’s a hint that his reaction is more emotion extreme than say, bobby or jo’s death, but still a bit less than if sam had died - and also notably takes it harder than sam. this sets up the fact that cas is more than just a tag along to dean.

cas will be brought back about episode 4 (method irrelevant), and there’ll be an emotional reveal, but nothing too out of the ordinary. everyone’s just happy to see him alive again. there’ll be dialogue specific to dean and cas, of course, but just your generic “glad you’re back/what happened while i was away” catch up

episode 5 will have no destiel content, but there will be a minor male character who sort of flirts with dean. dean doesn’t reciprocate, and is flustered, but also doesn’t reject him (perhaps because he’s flustered), setting the stage for dean-is-not-straight-and-has-repressed-bi-feelings, but this is pretty minor and easily overlooked. sam witnesses this moment.

in episode 7, you’ll have a cas/dean centric ep, where they go off and investigate either by themselves or in a way that has sam occupied and away from them for a lot of the episode. they have a mini confrontation early/mid episode where dean says cas shouldn’t have sacrificed himself, that they could have found another way, that cas should have been the one to complete the mission and dean to die.

cas’s response here will hint at his thoughts in 15x18 regarding what dean’s done for him, but much briefer. he implies that he’d rather dean had lived; dean is a good man, and cas sort of “owes” him this because dean has helped him find his humanity. he doesn’t confess his love or anything, but the implication that cas feels love (of some sort) because of knowing dean is definitely there.

dean should be a little uncomfortable at the raw emotions of this scene, and pulls back, though castiel will remain earnest and completely unbothered by dean’s difficulty dealing with what he’s saying

the episode continues, and the hunt goes as normal, but towards the end, dean gets injured (head or face wound). cas heals him easily, but there is a moment that lingers a little too long, with cas’s hand on dean’s face. dean is a part of it - he feels it too - but it freaks him out and he ends the moment, pretending it didn’t happen. they carry on packing up/continuing the hunt/whatever they were doing before, but the final shot of the scene is dean looking at cas and wondering - what the hell was that?

this is going to be played out pretty slow over the series, so in between the core relationship developing episodes there’ll be normal monster of the week episodes with just your normal amount of destiel subtext. the episode following cas and dean’s moment, for example, (episode 8 and 9) will be your average sam/dean/cas hunt with nothing more than a couple of small moments between cas and dean where cas is perhaps a little too intense and dean pulls away, or there’s an awkwardness between them, especially from dean’s side. episode 10 doesn’t have cas in it at all, because dean has made an excuse to separate himself from cas - i.e. dean jumps at the opportunity to give cas a task that means he’ll be hunting separately to him and sam

episode 11 will be a sam/dean hunt, but in the middle of the episode they find a clue/information that they need cas’s help trying to decode. sam suggests praying for cas to show up, and dean says well go ahead then. sam doesn’t make a fuss about dean not doing it himself (though he may be a bit surprised) and he prays to cas - but nothing happens. dean sighs and rolls his eyes, and says “cas, you there? we need some help” and cas appears.

sam is (sort of) mock offended that cas comes when dean calls and not him, and cas says that he was busy and would have heard sam eventually if he’d tried praying again later, but dean has an easier time breaking through via prayer than sam (ala the “dean and i share a more profound bond” moment in season 5(?i think). like then, sam is mock offended, but isn’t really surprised. dean is keen to move the conversation past this and get cas’s help with the hunt, which cas provides, and cas decides to stick around to help fight the episode’s monster.

the episode facilitates a scene where cas and sam are left alone on the hunt with some downtime to talk (perhaps because dean is avoiding cas) and sam brings it up, a bit curious - does cas hear dean better because cas pulled him from hell? cas admits he isn’t sure exactly what the reason is - perhaps it also has something to do with the way dean has affected him as a person. he finds that despite himself, he cares for dean more deeply than anyone else - and his feelings remain unchanged by the fact that dean seems to be avoiding him right now. but he finishes by saying he can’t help that his thoughts are more attuned to dean at all times, and that he finds himself thinking of him far too often, which probably leads to dean’s prayers finding him easier than other people’s.

sam is pretty shocked/surprised at this - it sounds like cas is saying he’s in love with his brother. cas doesn’t confirm this explicitly, but sort of agrees, saying something along the lines of “that is a possibility”, as though he’s not quite sure.

sam’s still processing this - can angels even fall in love? cas assures him that they can (maybe gives an example of another angel this has happened to) though it doesn’t happen often and has never really ended well.

the scene ends either a bit awkwardly, with sam still being “oh my god what is going on” and castiel being earnest and sort of oblivious to sam’s shock, or with an attempt at lightheartedness from sam. the episode continues as normal, though sam now gets to hunt with dean and castiel with the new secret knowledge that one of them is in love with the other one and the other one probably doesn’t know. but he doesn’t really know what to do with that information, so he does nothing, just observes.

episode 13 has no cas in it again, and it’s a sam/dean hunt. but here’s where it gets interesting - the monster is preying on men at a gay bar.

the hunt they’re on has people going missing who have recently frequented the bar. one of the bartenders there is obviously gay, and flirts with dean a little bit during their initial questioning, even giving him his number at the end, which throws dean. sam sees the end of this interaction and notes it with amusement.

they continue investigating - clues (or another disappearance) lead back to the gay bar, so they decide they have to check it out again. when there, they spot the same bar-tender again, and sam makes a joking comment that dean will probably get more out of him than sam will, so dean better go talk to him. dean does, and manages to be a bit more casual now he’s not as taken off-guard. dean gets the information out of him that he needs, but the conversation also hits more casual/personal territory - come comments are about what it’s like doing the job dean does, etc. dean might make a cryptic comment that hints about the supernatural nature of their work, not that the bartender would pick up on it, and answers in a way that’s both true to dean’s actual life but could be mistaken as being a thing an fbi agent would say. the bartender is less flirty during this conversation, but when he does make flirty comments, dean takes it much better and continues the conversation easily, and despite himself dean finds himself warming up to this guy.

the hunt continues. in the early scenes, when sam and dean roll into town, dean will see two guys heavily making out outside the club, and looks away (in a prudish/not wanting to watch someone’s PDA sort of way). later in the episode, either right before the climax or right after, there will be a moment where dean sees another moment of PDA between two guys (possibly more of a sweeter scene, like holding hands, or canoodling), and dean watches for a moment, somewhat longingly. the episode won’t address it, but this is his moment where internally he starts wondering if maybe he wants that.

the episode heads towards the conclusion when the monster takes another victim - and lo and behold, it’s our bartender. but dean and sam are getting close to finding it, and they hunt it to it’s lair. sam deals with the monster while dean rescues the bartender. it’s a generic rescue scene, and dean is very compassionate and reassuring, and the bartender is quite freaked out, as to be expected. the wrap up scene, where they take him home/back to his car/wherever, has him asking dean about what else is out there, and dean is honest - there are lots of creatures that lurk in the dark. but hopefully the bartender won’t see any more of them. if he does, here’s dean’s card - call him and dean will come. the bartender makes a joke about using it for a booty-call/to get a date with dean, and dean jokes back in a way that rebuffs that, but in a light and friendly manner.

the series continues. there is one more dean/sam hunt and then a dean/sam/cas hunt. dean seems a little but more at ease with cas during this.

in episode 16, dean gets a call from the bartender. he picks up the phone and makes a joke about how this wasn’t supposed to be used for booty calls - before turning serious at the bartender’s answer. something is going down in that town again, and he wants dean to come check it out. dean promises he’s on his way and hangs up.

sam is ready to go with dean, but dean tells him he’s going to go on his own. sam is surprised, but lets him.

dean goes to the bartender’s town and investigates. something is going down, and this time the bar tender helps him along the way. there is an easy chemistry between the two of them, the sort of familiarity characters have when meeting dean and sam for the second or third time rather than the first. the bartender assists in the investigation, so is around dean a lot, and flirts with him on occasion. in contrast the previous episode, dean is much more at ease with it, he even flirts back a little at one point. but it could still all be in good fun - it doesn’t have to imply anything.

3/4 of the way through the episode, before they go after and kill the monster, there is a slow/waiting/resting scene where dean and the bartender have the opportunity to just chat. they talk about the monster/hunting/the lifestyle a wee bit - and dean shows him something about the monster on the laptop, or in a book, or gives him a weapon and shows him how to use it - whatever it is, they get physically close for some reason. the bartender makes another flirtatious comment, and dean isn’t too sure how to respond this time. the bartender shrugs it off - it’s just some fun, he knows dean’s straight, it’s fine.

dean’s mind is racing a hundred miles a minute, and he’s feeling an absolute cascade of emotions. maybe, he croaks out, maybe he isn’t as straight as you might think.

it’s pretty clear where this is going lol. they have a moment, they kiss, idk maybe they have sex, maybe it’s implied or left ambiguous. camera cuts away.

when we come back to them, the plot has accelerated and it’s time to go after the monster (immediately, right now, before anyone can talk about what just happened). they hunt the monster, dean does the bulk of the work but there’s a crucial moment where bartender saves dean, mirroring the way dean saved him in his first appearance and allowing dean to finish the monster off.

the wrap up/goodbye scene is a bit awkward, both not too sure where they stand, but there is a moment where dean admits that he liked what happened between them. but it’s pretty obvious it can’t continue - dean has to keep hunting, and the bartender is not here for that life - he likes all his limbs attached. they keep the door open though about seeing each other in future - maybe a comment about where dean’s based, and the bartender says he’s heading through that way in a month or so, maybe he can pop in and say hi, and dean agrees.

dean goes back to the bunker, reconnects with sam who’s wrapped up his b-plot. dean is deliberately vague about the case details, and sam gets the feeling something’s off. then dean gets a call, and he takes it - but he’s squirrelly about it.

sam’s suspicious and is worried something is really wrong. he follows dean and listens to his call - he hears dean say “hey [bartender]”, and the conversation that follows, which basically boils down to - the bartender is actually going to be in dean’s area next week instead, it turns out, maybe they could catch up, and dean says sure, but his brother is around, and dean hasn’t exactly told him about what happened or come out to him, so they have to be a bit on the downlow. he doesn’t want to seem sleazy, but maybe they could get a hotel room? cut to sam, looking pretty surprised lmao and sort of creeping away quietly, feeling bad for eavesdropping on such a personal conversation and now processing the fact that his brother is (he thinks) gay.

ep 17 is a week later and dean and sam are called to a case miles away - right when the bartender is supposed to visit. dean takes a private call where he regretfully tells the bartender he’s not going to be around - they won’t be able to catch up this time. this secretive behaviour reminds sam (and the audience) of dean’s secret.

sam sort of spends the whole episode waiting for dean to come out to him, which doesn’t happen because this is still really new to dean and he’s not sure he’s ready for it. it’d be kinda fun/funny if they were fucking around with some sort of truth goddess or something, but regardless there’ll be opportunities for sam to poke dean about general things he might not be saying. sam also drops a couple of massive hints that he thinks gay people are awesome which dean obliviously ignores (or maybe starts cluing into towards the end of the episode).

but by the time they’ve defeated whatever it is they’re hunting, dean still hasn’t said anything about being gay so while they’re in the impala diving home, sam’s like “you know, if you were gay, i’d be okay with it” and dean’s like “yeah i’m not gay” and sams like “I heard you on the phone with bartender, sounded pretty gay” and dean’s like “okay yeah we banged. but i’m not gay, i’m bi” and sams like “woah. and you never said anything?” and dean talks about how it’s sort of been coming on for a while now but he’s been trying to ignore it because he didn’t think he was that person, or maybe how there was something with a guy a long time ago but he repressed it, etc etc. and sams like “well that’s cool and you’re still my big brother, i still love you, that’s never going to change” yada yada and there’s an awesome emotional scene and they drive off into the sunset.

BUT we still have the cas/dean plotline to wrap up in the last few episodes. sam know knows cas loves dean and dean’s bi but doesn’t know if dean loves cas and also doesn’t want to say anything in case he shouldn’t. but also wonders whether he should because it seems like dean might have feelings for cas, so as we head towards the final episodes sam keeps trying to push cas and dean into situations alone together but it’s not working very well, although they’re obviously really fucking close and sam can see just how much dean loves cas and cas loves dean but neither of them can actually see it, and eventually (like, one episode from the finale) cas says something implying quite obviously that he has feelings for dean and then leaves and dean’s totally oblivious and sam is practically banging his head against a brick wall out of frustration and just caves and is like “you know cas is in love with you, right?” and deans like “no” and sam is like “well he is. he told me” and dean’s like “whaaaaat”

but there’s no time for dean to like, talk to cas about this, only a small amount of time where he processes his feelings for him (maybe like one scene together a but a third character is there the whole time, so dean can think about what sam told him, but can’t say anything to cas) and then the finale is really kicking off, and they’re fighting whatever the big bad is, and again there’s comes this point where someone has to sacrifice themselves and this time dean’s like “no cas i told you earlier, i don’t want you sacrificing yourself, this time it’s my turn” and cas is says “no let me, i want to do this” and dean’s like “yeah but i don’t want you to because i love you” and does the thing that should kill him

except at the last minute something else happens which stops that (sam like kills the big bad by taking it by surprise or something) and so dean doesn’t die (maybe he’s a bit injured though and cas has to heal him) and cas goes to him and there’s a very emotional scene where they elaborate on the love confession and kiss each other and sam’s like “i can’t believe a month ago i thought these men were straight”.

and because this is supernatural something immediately goes wrong and by killing this big bad they’ve actually triggered the rising of the next big bad so there’s your plot for the next season you’re welcome, but hey now they’re gay together you’re welcome SPN writers please pay me to reboot your series in the way dean deserved.

#supernatural #destiel #cw supernatural #fanfiction

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aros001 · 3 years ago

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First time read through light novel vol. 8. Random thoughts.

...So...does anyone else feel a little uncomfortable with that cover image between Reinhard and Felt? I mean, I know he's not going to do anything sexual to her and she's not as young as I originally thought she was (I think vol. 1 said she was 15, while ever since the anime I thought she was like 10 or something), but she still is underage, being forced into wearing and doing something she doesn't want to by a grown man, and I think just the way he's got his hand holding her bare thigh makes it feel more sexual than it should be.

Also, is Wilhelm floating? The heck is he sitting on?

Subaru was afraid of death. Dying constantly trashed his life with an unbearable sense of fear and loss. He thought it was like that for everyone; he assumed that was how it had to be. Subaru, who had experienced death more than anyone via Return by Death, didn’t want anyone else to know what it was like.

I'm definitely seeing more similarities between Subaru and Ferris here than I did in the anime. I like how they both have a more unique perspective on life and death than most people would; Subaru from his Return By Death and Ferris from being such a powerful healer (to the point he can even regenerate himself from near death, I guess). Again, for a series where death can be undone so easily, it really knows how to use that premise to show just how weighty and serious death is. While the two will and do kill, it sits with them more than it does for others because they know just how awful death can be.

Something I've really enjoyed when reading through various LN series after watching the anime first is that I end up liking certain characters that I didn't in the anime. I didn't hate Ferris but the cutesy way he talked really bugged me and I didn't focus on him much. Here though I'm definitely getting a better feel for his character, especially with how much he values life, cursing at the suicidal witch cult members for tossing theirs away so easily. He and Subaru's back and forth makes the ending feel that much more heartbreaking when Ferris has to mercy kill the possessed Subaru.

Also, just to clear up any confusion I have, is Ferris in drag or does he identify as a woman? I don't have any problem referring to him from now on as a "she" (I never had that problem with Magne in My Hero Academia) but I'd prefer to get my facts straight. Ferris also makes a joke about Subaru swinging over to his side of the fence but I'm not sure if that means he's gay or not. It's a little hard to tell how far his affection for Crusch runs, for example.

Similarly, there's Julius, a character I never disliked in the anime, but I can definitely see more of a path to him and Subaru becoming friends here. It is funny that a comment from Ferris got me thinking how something to two have in common is how easy it is for them to get others to immediately dislike them just by talking. For Subaru it's because he too often talks without thinking, shoving his foot into his mouth, and for Julius it's how unintentionally snobbish and "better-than-you" he can sound. It's also nice that the story is getting Subaru to try and work through his issues, acknowledging that he's being unfair towards Julius, whom really has done nothing wrong aside from unintentionally pricking at Subaru's inferiority complex.

Like Subaru, I thought demon beasts and monsters were just so common in the world that a barrier around a lord's domain was a very common thing. But from how the other characters in-story are talking, it sounds like Roswaal deliberately put his domain and the village in the center of (or at least nearby) a demon beast habitat. Even in the anime I always believed he knew more than he let on but here he feels like a straight-up mastermind with everything he's been pulling behind the scenes and all the things he's done that, as of yet, have no explanation or reason behind them. Just what is he up to?

One thing I'll say about this series in comparison to some others I've seen/read; the dark magic here, like with the Witch of Envy, Return By Death, the White Whale, and the Unseen Hands, really feels like DARK magic. I've seen series that have their own version of dark magic that'll make bad things happen or summon demons or sacrifice people, but this? Everything to do with the witch feels creepy and unnatural, like it's not or should not be part of the world. With how much suffering it's caused, the mystery behind the gospel, just how unhinged Petelgeuse is and his body jumping, it all feels like stuff you should really not be messing with. Even at the end with Subaru running off and Julius finding him, getting no response at first from Subaru, feels like something out of a horror movie.

Subaru keeps getting asked if he's Pride, to which I'm assuming they mean if he's the one to become the Archbishop of Pride. Personally, my theory is that because of how much the witch seems to "favor" him, Subaru is Envy, like, well, the Witch of Envy and the only one of the seven sins they never mention to have an archbishop, given Satella destroyed the other witches. If that's the case, I can only imagine how much that's going to piss off all the other archbishops, that after all their shows of devotion some schmuck came to their world out of nowhere and became Satella's favorite.

“Lending one’s strength does not mean merely swinging one’s sword. It means challenging the same foes, worrying over the same obstacles, sharing the wounds and the weight of the burdens. This we can do. This is the lesson I learned in the past.”

Obviously this is meant primarily for Subaru but I can't help but think it can apply to Rem and Emilia as well. With the exception of Puck, Emilia tends to go out of her way to avoid involving others in her problems or having them feel they owe her anything when she helps with theirs. Rem dedicated a good chunk of her life to live as her sister's replacement after Ram lost her horn and tried to kill all the demon dogs on her own after Subaru was cursed saving her. They both seem determined to bear the weight of their burdens solely on their own, like they're the only ones who need to suffer. Subaru goes back and forth on how much he involves others in his problems, but while he's more than willing to help ease the burdens on others, his problem for the longest time was that he was so fixated on "swinging his sword", as he thought fighting and strength was the only way to help (probably because strength would honestly solve a decent chunk of his own problems).

“Two days ago, the forest around the mansion became unnaturally calm... to the point that even my eyes could catch nothing. Thereupon, an armed group appeared bearing the crest of the House of Karsten, which had declared war with the blank letter... Surely you cannot blame my little bird’s heart for being on the verge of breaking?”

Ram, I had no idea how much I missed you until you came back.

Namely, that someone out there had swapped his letter of goodwill, aiming to turn Emilia and Crusch against each other.

I don't think a line or speculation like this was in the anime, which it probably should have been. Without it, it just seems like Subaru's an idiot and made a stupid mistake, but now it seems like someone is directly manipulating events behind the scenes. Personally, I'd say my money's on Roswaal if I didn't have terrible luck when it comes to gambling.

“Silence! Cease your prattle! Give that book back, right—”

“Hey, don’t shout. If you get too angry, you know—your brain’ll shake.”

...

“G...gah...! How dare you, dare you, dare youuuu! My disciple of love!!”

“Don’t gimme that, you’re the one who mixed us up! Tunnel vision! What, are you lazy?!”

HA!

Overlord was the first light novel series I read (the only other LN I'd read before was Death Note: Another Note - The Los Angeles BB Murder Cases and that was years ago), so naturally it's the series I tend to make the most comparisons to for the other series I've been reading. In this case, something I really like about both Ainz and Subaru is that, despite how they're presented sometimes, neither is actually stupid (though they too often suck at reading the room). They're both just in situations way over their head and they have no frame of reference for how to deal with these fantasy world situations. Subaru, like with tricking Sloth into getting attacked by demon beast or figuring out what was up with the flowers, has plenty of times where he shows he can come up with decent plans or quick thinking that can pull off a win. His flaws are based more in his own immaturity and need to grow more as a person.

Honestly, Ainz and Subaru are fun to compare because, of the LN MCs I've read so far, they both seem to get every break the other doesn't. Ainz is obvious. He's got actual power, tons of resources, and numerous people whose faith in him is absolute, while Subaru has almost nothing save for the curse and the clothes on his back and has to continuously struggle to make any difference. On the other hand, Ainz has no one in his life he can relate to or be his real self around, making him feel incredibly empty and lonely, while Subaru has attracted a surprisingly wide web of people around him whom, despite some hiccups, do genuinely believe in the real him.

I am 90% certain Emilia and Puck fighting Sloth wasn't in the anime. Well, no wonder anime-only fans have trouble liking her when you cut out nearly all of the character's best sh*t! [Edit: I was wrong. Another post pointed out it was at the end of ep 23. Like I said, it's been a bit since I saw the anime and I remembered none of this fight. Though I still stand by that LN Emilia is better than anime Emilia] Like I've said before, it's not like anime Emilia could just be replaced with a sexy lamp and nothing would be different, but compared to the LN version she really didn't get a lot to do in the anime outside of the first arc. She wants to be queen and sometimes heals people. Otherwise she was mostly off-screen or serving as Subaru's object of affection (and sometimes obsession). Just being able to fight isn't everything but Emilia here certainly feels like she has a lot more fire to her personality and does more when she appears. She's not just a nice, pretty girl for the MC to fight for.

Somehow, he’d died again. He’d probably lost it all once more.

He surrendered everything to the abyss. This was the familiar embrace of failure after he pathetically lost his life.

Look back at the world.

Look back at your failures.

Don’t forget. Don’t forget. Do not forget.

Ferris’s tear-filled voice. Wilhelm’s lament, shaking with regrets. Julius’s resolve and remorse, so great he probably gnashes his teeth over it—Don’t forget, ever. No matter how low you are, don’t ever let go.

Is this Satella saying this to Subaru? I'd assume so since it ends with the "I love you" line Subaru's been getting before he RBDs. But if so, why is she saying this to him? One theory is that she has her own regrets from her life and is giving Subaru a chance not to have the same. That assumes she is a good person and that the stories around her are wrong. Another theory, given the Witch of Envy title, is that she's insisting Subaru never let go of what's his. It's his (and hers, since he is hers) and no one else can have it. I mean, that applies more to greed than envy, I suppose, but stretching a bit you could say she'd be jealous of a world moving on without her.

Original Reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Re_Zero/comments/gwjfwy/novels_first_time_read_through_light_novel_vol_8/

#re:zero #random thoughts #reddit repost

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forestwater87 · 4 years ago

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Every episode of Camp Camp ranked: A very (non)objective list

It's well past the time of year when Season 5 of Camp Camp would've dropped. I fully understand and support it not coming out; the crew's health and safety are much more important than a comfort show.

However . . . man, would it be nice to have some comfort right now.

So I'm reliving the entire series! I've been known to share with the world a whole bunch of Spicy Hot Takes, but I've never really sat down and talked about my feelings about the show as a whole.

And what's the best way to do that? Well, just ask Jenny Nicholson: a numbered list! That is, here's the series ranked from worst episode to best, because I want to get the negativity out of the way early and focus on everything I love (and because people enjoy complaining, so let’s frontload all that).

The takes will be hot. The feelings will be intense. The post, I'm assuming, will be largely unread.

Let's do it!

Oh and duh, there are spoilers. I tried to keep it pretty chill, but you’ll want to have watched the whole show or just not care about spoilers before going forward.

Also slashes in the middle of “naughty words” are meant to prevent this from being kept out of the main tags. Who knows if it’ll work? I don’t.

60. Who Peed the Lake? (Season 4, epis/sode 3)

Ah, good ol' Pi/ss Lake (or as @hopefullypessimistic84 calls it because she's funnier than any of us will ever be, “Pis/s Fe/tish Dot Com”). Terrible, one of the few I’d consider nigh unwatchable. I actually kind of love this episode for being such great shorthand for "the absolute worst one."

Who signed off on an entire episode centered around Sherlock Holmes meets a bad om/o joke? Give me names and addresses: I just want to talk.

59. Reigny Day (Season 1, episode 6)

And nobody was surprised.

I'll admit I'm more willing to defend this episode than many people, but it's not . . . like, good. It seemed okay when there were only 11 other episodes to compare it to, but now that there have been so many bangers, this comes across as extremely weak.

And let’s just say the Na/zi jokes hit a lot differently in 2020 than they did in the summer of 2016.

I’m overall happy with the direction the showrunners have moved Dolph’s character in, and I can’t totally blame them for using a kind of humor that was fairly common in the pre-Trump era, but yikes, this has aged like milk. And it wasn’t even very funny at the time, so it aged like milk that was already pretty bad to begin with.

58. Squirrel Camp (Season 4, episode 10)

This is a dumb one.

Not much else to say; it’s just kinda stupid and lame.

57. Fashion Victims (Season 4, episode 13)

I love Sasha, but this is filler. Which isn’t in itself a bad thing -- I have a couple episodes near the top that could reasonably be called filler, and a valid argument could easily be made that “filler episodes” don’t actually exist in a show with no plot -- but as much as I adore the Flower Scouts and enjoy the handful of good moments we get in this episode . . . who cares? Does anyone really give a sh/it about anything that happens here? Does anyone get their life from this one?

I didn’t think so.

56. Foreign Exchange Campers (Season 3, episode 3)

I know, I know, your Russian waifu came from this episode. Why do you think it’s so low on this list?

Okay, for real: this is . . . fine. It’s fine. It’s fine? I’m not mad at it, it just feels tonally incongruous and not very memorable beyond the fact that the fandom got really weird and kinda gross about Vera. But the episode itself? There’s some cute stuff with Neil and Nikki being jealous, but for the most part it’s a big hunk of white bread with some super mild white cheese that’s kinda soggy from sitting in a bag for too long and getting all condensation-y.

That is to say: it’s fine.

ETA: Space Kid does say “fu/ck.” I can’t decide if that’s a point in the episode’s favor or against it.

This is the last of what I’d call the “bad” episodes. Everything after this ranges from mediocre to mind-blowingly amazing. But whatever our failing tier of Camp Camp episodes is, it stops right about here.

Onto the good stuff!

55. Night of the Living Ill (Season 2 Halloween episode)

I keep switching this with “Eggs Benefits,” which probably means they should be tied. But whatever, this is my list and I am in charge and I’ve finally decided, after like 5 changes, that I like this one a little bit less.

It’s a fun Romero parody with nothing I’d call bad. Really this one’s only so low on the list because I think it’s kinda icky, and looking at those green snotty faces makes me queasy. If you think this is a bad reason to put it near the bottom of the list, then make your own post.

54. Cameron Campbell Can't Handle the Truth Serum (Season 4, episode 11)

I . . . don’t remember this at all. I initially had it a bit higher because I tend to love things with Campbell in them, but then I realized that nothing about this episode stuck in my brain even a little bit.

Oh, this is the “Dolph has autism” episode that made everyone either extremely happy or really mad? Okay. I guess that’s the most remarkable thing about it. Neato.

Cam, I love you, but this was just not the best use of your sleazy charm.

53. Eggs Benefits (Season 2, episode 9)

This is one of those episodes with enough cute moments and good ideas to save it from being totally unmemorable, and I mostly enjoy rewatching. Platypus being a mom is a fabulous idea, and pairing the campers the way they did was mostly really interesting and fun.

The Preston-Nurf stuff takes it down several pretty significant notches, though. It’s what the kids would call problematic, and while I normally enjoy how the show doesn’t skew away from darker themes and jokes, it didn’t really fit either of their characters and just . . . isn’t fun to watch. It’s not especially funny, it’s not especially tragic, it’s just uncomfortable.

52. Camp Campbell Wants YOU! (Season 1, episode 0)

Honestly, this would be a lot higher if it was a full-length episode. It’s funny.

The next 5 or so episodes fall under the “cute but not very memorable” umbrella:

51. Nikki's Last Day on Earth (Season 3, episode 4)

I love the ensemble episodes, so this was always going to score higher than any of the single-character “meh” eps. I didn’t see the twist coming, though I know a lot of other fans did. Textbook example of “cute but not very memorable” -- the Platonic ideal of that concept.

50. The Candy Kingpin (Season 3, episode 9)

A clever idea that plays on Max’s worst characteristics and then calls him out for them, while also giving Dolph some much-needed character development. Unfortunately, I don’t feel like it really picks up until the last third of the episode, leaving the rest just kind of sitting there.

49. Campfire Tales (Season 4, episode 13)

Who doesn’t love campfire stories?

That’s all I got. They’re campfire stories.

ETA: OH SH/IT THIS ONE HAS THAT REALLY SCARY STORY! Where David’s all like . . . Slenderman’d. Fu/ck, I didn’t remember that until I was writing out my thoughts for #35 or so. That definitely elevates it, but I’m too tired to try and re-decide where this should go, so just tie it with “New Adventure!”

48. New Adventure! (Season 4, episode 4)

New trio! Focusing on these 3 was a definite risk, and I think it really paid off. While the “plot” itself isn’t anything special, there are a handful of really great side gags (hi, Dirty Kevin!!!!) and it’s fun to see these three interact. They all get some nice character beats. It’s a good time.

47. Something Fishy (Season 3, episode 8)

This might’ve hit me harder if I’d actually seen The Shape of Water, but the send-up works fine without having more than the seen-the-trailer level of understanding. Gwen dresses pretty, which I love; Max sucks, which I also love. What drags this one down is mostly feeling like the surreal aspects of the comedy go a bit too far into the “what the fu/ck am I looking at?” territory without really . . . making an actual joke beyond “look! Wacky!"

Why is David at the opera with a bird? Why??

46. City Survival (Season 3, episode 11)

Literally do not remember a single thing about this episode except David getting mugged and being called a “homeless twi/nk.” That should probably rank it lower on the list, but David being a fluttery mother hen saves it for me -- as does the fact that it leads directly into one of my favorite episodes, and the single best story arc of the series.

Next set of episodes is what I’m going to arbitrarily call “okay! but like the good kind of okay, not the bad kind.”

45. Bonjour Bonquisha (Season 2, episode 7)

Max and Sasha masterminding a scheme is really fun; their dynamic is great (though it won’t be fully realized until Season 4), and heartbroken David is so tragically cute it actually makes my heart explode out of my chest.

Also I can’t resist a good “3 kids in a trench coat” gag.

44. Anti-Social Network (Season 2, episode 2)

Neil is very relatable and I don’t have much else to say about this one. It’s fun to see an episode that more heavily focuses on our nerdy science boy, and Max and Neil teaming up to save Nikki was really charming and sweet and set my Makkiel ship out to sea.

43. A Camp Camp Christmas, or Whatever (Season 2 holiday episode)

Why does this episode have a musical number? It’s not good.

Okay, that was mean. This is fun and cute and Gwen wears a pretty purple sweatshirt and Space Kid gives her a present and it’s really sweet. But that musical number is an instant fast-forward for me, sorry.

42. Preston Goodplay's Good Play (Season 4, episode 7)

We get some Preston character development! Awesome!

It’s done in a really trippy and surreal way that totally fits his character and heightens the drama of the episode! Awesome!

David has an apparently-tragic history of being a French mime! Not a good call!

Next tier: Some good sh/it! (Tbh, these could all be put in just about any order; they might as well be one massive tie.)

41. Cookin' Cookies (Season 2, episode 11)

I love the Flower Scouts. I love Dirty Kevin. I love the idea of accidentally starting a dru/g empire. Another weird, borderline experimental one focusing on side characters, and I think it works better than “New Adventure!” because the scale of the melodrama is just so over-the-top.

The fact that this is in the bottom 20 but I have nothing but good things to say about it illustrates how dang good this show is. It’s only getting better from here, folks!

40. Romeo & Juliet II: Love Resurrected (Season 1, episode 7)

Preston is a terrible playwright. This makes sense, because he’s like 11, but he’s the kind of hilariously bad I wish I’d been as a preteen, because his play is absolutely bonkers. Max fucking with David is great, Tabii vs. Bonquisha is great, Bonquisha in general is a giant amazonian goddess and I want to be swept up into her giant arms. Neil is . . . a robot, for some reason?

So much fun!

39. Camp Cool Kidz (Season 1, episode 4)

I don’t love Ered’s characterization in this one, but there are a lot of wacky hijinks in this episode that I think make it really enjoyable. Max’s wide-eyed revolutionary naïveté is a fun change from his usual dour pessimism, and Nikki’s loyalty to Ered is both very gay and very charming. Plus we get to learn a bit more about how the camp operates (and fails to operate), and it’s a nice way to better establish the campsite as its own setting.

(Definitely think “Cool” should’ve been spelled with a K though. But whatever, I don’t write for the show.)

38. Scout's Dishonor (Season 1, episode 3)

The birth of Neeancy! The introduction of the Flower and Wood Scouts! Neil saying “cu/nt” -- one of the first and only truly shocking uses of profanity in the entire show! ZUKO!

I don’t know if my fondness for this one is rooted mostly in nostalgia or if it was actually really fun, but I enjoyed the he/ll out of it. Not as highly-rated as some other episodes mostly because it doesn’t really do anything, character or story-wise, but not every episode needs to be a massive game-changer that drowns us in feels. Sometimes it’s enough to have a fun romp, and this is very that.

37. Ered Gets Her Cool Back (Season 3, episode 2)

Awww, Ered. I have a soft spot for her, because I love the archetype of a spoiled bit/ch clearly still figuring out how to be a person and have friends. You really get the sense of her as a teenager trying to sort her shi/t out in this episode, which I would love to see more of. Her interactions with Nerris are top-tier, and I like that it’s a continuation of how her character’s been softening since Season 1 into this kind of big-sister figure.

Also, all the female campers in this show are lesbians. I do not make the rules.

36. Attack of the Nurfs (Season 4, episode 2)

I feel like this is a pretty underrated episode. But then again, I feel like Nurf is a pretty underrated character, so maybe that’s just my own personal bias.

I really enjoyed all the different iterations of Nurf, and I think Blaine did a killer job giving each one its own personality and life. It’s a fun episode that plays hard with cartoon physics (a 3D printer printing people! I love it!) and has a surprisingly moving ending.

At least, that’s what I think. Most other people seem to find this one pretty forgettable. Again: make your own da/mn list. I liked it.

35. Mascot (Season 1, episode 2)

This entire episode is memorable for so many things, but a few of my favorites:

David is established as kind of a di/ck.

Platypus arrives and kicks all the as/s.

Quartermaster is the best.

Nerris, Harrison, and Space Kid all get little moments to show off how cute they are.

Neil and Nikki bonding.

This:

34. Quest to Sleepy Peak Peak (Season 2, episode 3)

I love watching Nerris and Harrison bicker, and Neil and Nikki fit really well into their group. It reminds me of being a kid, and of playing Dungeons & Dragons (as an adult, because I’m so cool), and of summer . . . which is a really good thing for this show. There are a lot of funny one-liners, and it’s just a good dang time.

33. Quartermaster Appreciation Day (Season 2, episode 6)

I don’t think this one is all that well-loved, but I thought it was funny. There are literally zero important plot or character moments, but it made me laugh a lot, and that’s all I need a Camp Camp episode to do.

I love QM, and the more we learn about him, the more confused and disturbed we end up being. What a fu/cking champion.

32. Arrival of the Torso Takers (Season 3 Halloween episode)

I lowkey hated this one when it came out, because I knew the Daniel stans were going to be exhausting. And they kind of were? But looking back, it’s a great way to reintroduce this motherfu/cker. He’s a lot scarier than he was the last time around -- but also less competent, which is a great way to kick him in the proverbial ba/lls -- and while I wish it had a lot more Gwen in it, it’s a clever and creative Halloween episode.

31. Operation: Charlie Tango Foxtrot (Season 3, episode 10)

Charlie . . . Tango . . . Foxtrot . . . CTF . . . OH! Capture the Flag! I never got that before. Oh, that’s neat. I love this show.

Listen, every time the writers decide to take a risk and do something bizarre and creative, I’m going to be here for it at least a little bit. An entire episode told from the POV of the Woodscouts, explaining how hard they failed in all directions? A great gag where everyone in Petrol’s story talks in grunts? The return of Jermy Fartz?! Fantastic.

30. Panicked Room (Season 4, episode 16)

Listen. I’m a sucker for my trash grandpa; anything Campbell-centric is probably going to be pretty good (except #54), because he’s just one of the most consistently funny and engaging characters. Good times are had whenever this terrible man is on the screen, and giving him a romantic backstory? A tragic romantic backstory full of mistakes and emotional damage?? One where he waited 17 YEARS for the love of his life???

We have no choice but to stan.

29. Party Pooper (Season 4, episode 15)

I’m so predictable. If you put Gwen in something, I will be happy. If you make an entire episode about how Gwen is under-appreciated and overworked and just trying to do her best despite the circumstances, I will dedicate my firstborn child to you.

Anyway, this episode is really sweet, and I liked the unexpected direction the writers took her relationship with her dad. He seems like a nice guy, they seem like they have a nice relationship, and . . . well, an episode about how hard it is to be an adult millennial hit pretty hard. Plus this was just a really pretty episode -- and not just because Gwen was in so much of it! Seriously, that night sky was a thing of beauty.

Also if you say a fuc/king word about Max and that godda/mn dog I will choke you out with your own intestines. Few things are more hilariously, annoyingly ironic than the fact that the entire fandom ignored and failed to appreciate Gwen . . . in the episode all about how everyone ignores and fails to appreciate Gwen.

28. Culture Day (Season 3 holiday episode)

Now, would it be arrogant to point out that I had the idea for a Culture/Heritage Day back in September 2018? Yes, especially since I don’t think the writers ever read fanfiction and it has literally nothing to do with this episode. Will that stop me? He/ll no it will not! I am a creature of ego! Read my stuff!

Anyway, this is a really fun look at Neil’s background, personality, and relationships. Max looking out for him is just . . . oh my god, I cannot, I’ve written like 30 of these and my brain is starting to melt, but these two are so cute. I love arrogant Neil, and I love protective Max, and I love QM and Gwen fuc/king over the Flower Scouts to save the day. Everything about this episode is lovely.

27. Cameron Campbell the Camp Campbell Camper (Season 3, episode 7)

This should not be ranked so high (even if these are all essentially tied). This is a dumb episode based on a really, really dumb premise.

But . . . I don’t know what to tell you. “Samboy Kidwell,” Max realizing he and Campbell are disturbingly similar and not liking what his future could look like, David’s “I’m not mad, I’m disappointed” face . . . this episode happens to hit all of my favorite things. It had a really good balance of heavy-handed moralizing and goofs, it was part of the most graceful lead-up into a finale the show has ever had, and I’m just all about it.

Excellent job, Samboy. Count Olaf would be proud of your disguise.

There ends the “some good sh/it” tier. We’re starting to get into the really excellent stuff now!

26. Parents' Day (Season 2, episode 12)

I know. You want this to be higher. I hear you.

Honestly I’m kind of shocked it’s this high; it’s my least favorite of the season finales so far, and I had to push past a lot of prejudice to actually rank this where I think it deserves to be, as opposed to somewhere in the like mid-40s. Mostly because it gave fuel to the raging inferno of “Max has terrible parents and David should adopt him” headcanons, which I’ve detailed my problems with extensively in the past (in a post that, statistically speaking, none of you have read).

But, trying to be objective: is this episode actually any good?

Well . . . yeah, it really is.

So much work was put into giving each of the campers families that make sense with their characters and bounce absurdly well off of them, ranging from wholesome and adorable (Nerris’s family) to quietly tragic (Harrison’s parents), and they’re all designed so well; they’re fun to look at and fun to watch interact with the kids and each other. (The only exception is Dolph’s dad, who is both kinda lame and misattributes the cause of the weird Na/zi thing because it did not come from Germany, I assure you. But things with Dolph are always a little off, and I don’t really know how you would give him a backstory that actually works with the character, so they were caught between a rock and a hard place there.)

The drama of David having to choose between the man he considers his father and the camp he considers his home is really touching, and him and Gwen choosing to take a sad camper out to get pizza instead of covering for their boss’s a/ss is such a beautiful moment for both of them that I can’t really blame the fandom for losing their mind over it. Campbell’s arrest leading into the arcs of the next two seasons was great as well, and the finale left us all with this weird sense of foreboding because we didn’t know what was going to happen next; it was the only finale that actually ended on something close to a cliffhanger, while still being satisfying enough to keep us all from melting down.

Plus, it’s funny. Carl and Candy are really funny and the idea of Neil and Nikki’s parents boning is funny in a horrible way. The joke about Quartersister is funny. It’s a good episode.

Should this be higher? Maybe, but I can’t bring myself to put it above the rest of these episodes. Again: make your own list.

25. Mind Freakers (Season 1, episode 10)

The episode that launched a thousand ships. Assuming those ships are all Harrison/Neil, anyway.

It’s hard to talk about these Season 1 episodes because they feel so classic. Like, what is there to say? You’ve all seen it a couple dozen times; I’ve seen it a couple dozen times. Harrison is a di/ck, Neil is possibly an even bigger di/ck, and magic may or may not be real. (Though spoilers for literally every season: yes, magic is definitely real.) It’s so much fun watching these two smug as/sholes snipe at each other in an almost literal playground hair-pulling way that could very easily be read as flirtation.

And the fandom did most certainly read it that way, at least for a little while.

24. Gwen Gets a Job (Season 2, episode 8)

It’s Gwen. What, was I supposed to not put it this high?

This was the first Gwen-centric episode, and it absolutely slaps. She’s pushed to the breaking point and responds by being a cold-hearted BAMF, and it got her some pretty significant hate from fans but I don’t give a fu/ck, I loved it. We got to see her all dolled up, and then we got to see her all disheveled, and both of those looks were gorgeous. David gives her a tiny fragment of the love and validation she deserves (I don’t know if this is when gwenvid started taking off -- I think it wasn’t really until “Parents’ Day,” or even Season 3 -- but I ate that s/hit up).

Also, again: job hunting post-2008. It’s a bad time, y’all. Camp Camp gets it.

23. Follow the Leader (Season 4, episode 6)

Yeah, I was kind of surprised at how high this landed, too. I guess I’m just a sucker for unlikely companionships, and these three have a great chemistry. The combination of competitiveness, sass, and reluctant admiration make their interactions a lot of fun. Their motivation of doing petty errands for Campbell for the sake of getting at the Box of Illegal Contraband is a great framework too, with high enough stakes to justify all sorts of wacky shenanigans without causing actual anxiety.

I want to see these characters forced to spend more time together. Please, RT, make that happen.

22. Escape from Camp Campbell (Season 1, episode 1)

In terms of numbers, this feels so low, but considering everything from about #45 on is ranked as at least decent, this is actually a pretty high rating. There are 21 episodes I’d call better than this, but these decisions were all pretty painful.

This introduces us to everyone! The main trio, the counselors, Mr. Campbell; we get a snapshot of the major personalities running around the camp, the major points of conflict (Max vs. David, primarily), the major building blocks of future episodes, setting, and relationships . . .

Again, I don’t know how much of my love for this episode is nostalgia -- there’s a lot of squeeing at familiar faces and gags; this is the first time David gets hit by a bus!!! -- but it was a fun and funny introduction to a series that’s ended up being so important to me, and I’m so grateful this wonderful, quirky little show with its wonderful and quirky little premiere.

Of all the episodes, I really can’t look at this one objectively. It’s too important.

21. The Fun-Raiser (Season 3, episode 1)

David and Gwen scheming is my ki/nk. They very rarely scheme together, but every single time their teamwork makes the dream work (or, more frequently, makes the dream fail horribly and have disastrous consequences) my soul flies out of my body and takes to the stars, where I write another 500 first chapters to gwenvid fanfics I’ll probably never finish.

This is a great follow-up to “Parents’ Day,” where we immediately see the consequences of the previous season finale and what happens when the one adult in the camp disappears. Mr. Campbell was a terrible adult, true, but at least he was smart enough not to steal QM’s hook. Like . . . whose plan was this? It was so bad. These two are hilariously incompetent sometimes -- often when their bad ideas are feeding off of each other, actually, a la this and “Space Camp Was a Hoax” -- and watching them frantically try and keep all their balls in the air is so great.

The ending is satisfying, too; a bit graphic, in keeping with a show that tends to keep the violence limited to periodic spurts of bloodshed 1-2 times a season and mostly pretty mild the rest of the time, but between Max stepping up and fixing everything while still being his shi/tty self to our dear dumba/ss counselors getting their dumb as/ses handed to them (deservedly so, if we’re being honest) . . . it’s such a great note to begin a new season on.

20. Journey to Spooky Island (Season 1, episode 5)

A classic.

We get to meet our spooky boy Jasper, we get to watch the comedy trio play off each other and continue to sketch out the general contours of their friendship, and we get to see the Quartermaster with a big purple dil/do for a hand. What’s not to love?

19. The Butterfinger Effect (Season 4, episode 17)

CONTROVERSIAL HOT TAKES! GET YOUR CONTROVERSIAL HOT TAKES HERE!

I’ve already gone into some pretty intense detail about why I think this one is actually really good and carries the theme of embracing change that everything about Season 4 was centered around, but none of y’all read that so here it is in short: this episode is super funny, almost all of the campers’ transformations work really well as extensions of their characters while still being strange and surprising, and the fact that Nurf creates all of these problems by trying to solve them is deliciously fun to watch in a karmic sort of way.

Or maybe it’s just because any Nurf-centric episode is going to rank pretty highly for me. That is also possible.

18. Space Camp Was a Hoax (Season 2, episode 10)

Our camp counselors being bad people: it’s my drug of choice.

We get Space Kid tripping balls in what might be one of the funniest sequences in the show, the entire camp coming together to try and pull off the stupidest, most impossible task (and kinda maybe almost nailing it???), and once again the fun of watching Gwen and David scramble to keep from getting caught in their boss’s shit/ty lies is so great. And Lindsay’s voice acting is absolutely killer, even more so than usual.

17. Jermy Fartz (Season 2, episode 4)

I get the sense this might be a somewhat controversial one.

I’ve written before about why I think this episode is a lot of fun, but it mostly boils down to two things: watching the campers try (and fail) to be nice to the most bully-able person on the entire planet, and the essential likeableness of Jermy.

No, really.

I think a lot of people were put off by Jermy’s general grossness, because . . . my god is he disgusting, but he’s also polite and good-natured, and seems totally self aware of how difficult he is to be around, without letting it make him depressed. He’s cheerful in a weirdly downbeat way that’s impossible to understand until you see him in action. He’s so matter-of-fact about his own awfulness in a way that I found entirely endearing. I don’t think I’d want him at my camp, either, but get that kid to a good dermatologist and gastroenterologist, teach him some basic hygiene and social skills, and you’ll have quite a little gentleman there.

I do however find it hilarious that apparently David got the type of tree wrong when making fun of Jermy. Not only is that a great moment for reveling in David being an as/shole, but he didn’t even have the right wood. F/ucking idiot. I love him so much.

These last ones are my favorites! (Well, duh, that’s how this whole ranking thing works.) Maybe not perfect, but just really good and with limitless rewatch value.

16. St. Campbell's Day (Season 4 holiday episode)

They Grinch’d Camp Camp. Those brilliant bast/ards, they really pulled it off.

Ignoring the fact that David is truly frightening-looking for most of the episode, this is a great bookend to Season 4, following up on the theme established in the first episode about how David is a flawed and selfish human being despite trying his best not to be.

This is another one I was surprised to find so high on the list, but the more I thought about it the more I realizes how good it is. David being a jerk is always one of my favorite storylines, and the fact that the trouble comes from him trusting Mr. Campbell too little instead of too much is a nice twist on the usual formula. Gwen coming to help him out despite a blistering hangover gave me aggressive shipping feels, yes, obviously.

Between a lot of really funny little gags like QM’s failed satanic ritual and the genuinely touching moral about the importance of spending time with the people you love, it’s just a really lovely episode that gets just the right amount of maudlin for the holiday season.

15. Jasper Dies at the End (Season 2, episode 5)

I kept switching this and “Dial M for Jasper”; it was a really difficult decision to make, figuring out where these two belonged. I think in the end, while the John Dies at the End reference was very, very good, this one loses me a little bit by being told from David’s perspective. Now, normally the more David is in an episode the more I’ll be likely to love it (see my #1 for proof of that), but his blinders when it comes to the camp and Mr. Campbell result in a really funny story, but one without the same emotional heft as hearing about what happened from Jasper’s point of view.

That doesn’t mean it’s not perfect for what it needs to be: each Jasper episode builds on the previous ones, and having the same intensity of “Dial M for Jasper,” where we learn how he died and how his relationship with David fell apart, would be weird and heavy at this point. In Season 1 we just found out he’s a ghost (and eagle-eyed viewers realized he’d been a camper with David); in Season 2 we find out how David views their friendship and time at camp; and in Season 3 we get Jasper’s perspective. It’s an absolutely wonderful raising of the stakes (for lack of a better term), but the one that packs more of an emotional punch is going to rank a bit higher than the one that’s mostly just for laughs.

That being said: there are plenty of laughs in this one. Everyone -- Griffin, Miles, Travis, the animators -- nailed this one, and it gets funnier every time I watch it.

14. Camporee (Season 1, episode 11)

AKA the episode where Forest realized she was in love with Gwen.

What a great idea for an episode, seriously. Every coming-of-age story has a talent show or a competition or a big game -- something where the kiddos can show off their improved skills and teamwork to beat their bullies or whatever. And this show has both kinds of bullies: the popular girly girls and the violent muscleheads. What a great moment to pull everyone together and show how friendship can help us accomplish anything!

Except . . . of course that’s not what happens. Of course they’re absolute garbage, and of course teamwork isn’t the answer. Gwen is the perfect foil for David here, being the anti-teamwork, anti-Camp-Campbell adult who can perfectly and effortlessly undermine David’s relentless optimism. David wants so badly for his campers to live in the same coming-of-age summer movie he did as a child, and their staunch refusal to do that leads to a really heartbreaking closer to the episode, as well as lead into the next one. Everything about this, from the challenges to the setup to Gwen shouting “we are winning this FUC/KING trophy!” is just gold.

13. David Gets Hard (Season 1, episode 9)

We have David. We have Nurf. We have Gwen. We have Max trying to be helpful in the shi/ttiest way possible.

We have all the makings of a da/mn good episode. And they deliver. Not a very emotionally intense or moving one, but so, so funny.

12. Dial M for Jasper (Season 3, episode 5)

This isn’t the fate any of us expected for Jasper, and it’s not the fate of a lot of people wanted. But godda/mn it, it worked. The constant bait-and-switch the episode keeps playing with, where you keep waiting for something really dramatic and tragic to happen . . . and then the reality is that Jasper died because Mr. Campbell was stupid and careless, and it was all just a horribly sad accident.

It’s anticlimactic, but in a way that suits the series, both as a comedic counterpoint to all the hype throughout the episode and as a way to establish that Cameron Campbell is a bad man first and foremost through selfishness and laziness, not Daniel-esque sinister evil. Jasper’s death was totally avoidable and totally Campbell’s fault, and while that’s sad, it also adds a weird sort of lightness to the episode. David didn’t do something terrible to kill his best friend, Jasper didn’t kill himself, and without having actively chosen to murder a child (well, not this time), the door remains open for fans accepting Campbell’s later pseudo-redemption. It was just an accident, and Jasper was “haunting” David to tell him that he was sorry for how their friendship ended. That’s really sweet, actually.

I think it’s the best way this reveal could’ve gone, and I’m so impressed with how they pulled it all off.

11. Into Town (Season 1, episode 8)

This might actually be the only flawless episode in the entire show. I mean, I call a lot of them flawless, and I mean that on an emotional level -- “I love this so much I cannot see anything wrong with it” -- but this one is a masterpiece of storytelling. All the technical jumbo I’m bad at, like planting and payoff and tension and all of that, is just perfect.

I feel like this is the kind of claim that needs to be backed up with a long-as/s essay full of citations and video clips and references to, like, Joseph Campbell or something, but this is my 49th entry in the list so I am not going to be doing that. Besides, I don’t think my English degree qualifies me to critique film/animation; I don’t even entirely know half the terms I’ve used to compliment this episode. Someone else please explain why this is such a good one.

10. The Quarter-Moon Convergence (Season 4, episode 5)

I’ve mentioned in other entries that the weird, surreal humor sometimes doesn’t work; it feels too much like being odd for its own sake, and sometimes gets so distracted in being surreal that it forgets to include anything funny or meaningful.

This . . . is not one of those.

Putting Harrison and QM together is a stroke of genius; the two of them are literally the most magical beings in the entire show, and using them as the conveyance for this great Lovecraftian horror-comedy was such a good idea. I don’t know if we’ll ever see these two interact in another episode -- honestly, this felt a bit like lightning in a bottle, and I have a hard time imagining what could possibly bring them together again -- but if this is the only episode we get, it is such a fantastic one.

Harrison makes a really good everyman, despite his powers; he’s just the right amount of confident and insecure to pull off that wide-eyed apprentice to QM’s grizzled wise mentor. (The fact that QM is objectively a terrible mentor is beside the point.) I still don’t entirely know what the two of them accomplished, but it feels baffling and momentous, with the perfect amount of gravity to make things extremely tense all the way through to the end.

Also, I guess God is an octopus? That’s kinda cool. I like octopuses.

9. Camp Corp. (Season 3, episode 12)

Another unpopular opinion? Oh ho ho, I am so contrary! I am Not Like Other Fans! I am the Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way, refusing to have the same opinions of all you prepz.

I know this wasn’t the most well-loved episode, but I think it did a really great job tying together story threads woven throughout Season 3: Max’s selfishness leading to him hurting other people, his growing realization that he cares about his friends and the camp itself, the parallels between him and Mr. Campbell (and the fact that they both get this redemption moment in the finale).

This is the most Max-centric season, focusing on his flaws and character growth, and they pulled it off in a really organic way that felt faithful to his character, touching without being too maudlin. The fact that his feelings about the camp are echoed in Gwen, Neil and Nikki, the other campers, and even Mr. Campbell drives home how important the camp -- and David -- are to this strange little family.

Each season, Max reluctantly becomes a better person, without changing the fundamental core of who he is. That’s a really hard putt for the writers and Michael, and I’m blown away every finale by how they so consistently nail it.

8. Time Crapsules (Season 4, episode 18)

Gwen-centric? Check.

Max learning how to be a better person while still being the bratty kid we know and love? Check.

Looks at one of the most under-appreciated character dynamics in the entire show (i.e., Max and Gwen)? Checkity check-check-check.

I don’t really have much to say about this one, which I should: it was considered a pretty serious letdown to a lot of fans, and I’m not sure how to explain why I loved it so much.

Comparing Max from “The Order of the Sparrow” to Max from this episode is wild. It’s not like 2 different characters: they’re still very obviously the same cynical, self-absorbed 10-year-old trying to survive summer camp. But he’s become a more considerate friend and decent version of that kid, and it’s great to watch. The moment where he and Gwen go too far and immediately regret snapping at each other is still painful (on my god, the VAs in this show, they’re so talented), Nikki and Neil both get nice subplots about how they’re also growing up, and the ending is fuc/king hilarious, perfectly breaking the tension from Campbell’s speech, which is both beautifully done and important to hear, especially if you’re in a period of uncomfortable transition (like, say, in your late 20s, or living through about 5 different national and global catastrophes).

And okay, I found that speech on the wiki for this episode and it made me deeply emotional, so here:

Here's the thing: you've got to take your failures and make something out of them. Take Camp Campbell for instance: a lot of poor decisions went into making this place what it is today. Sure, somewhere along the line it maybe strayed from its path, not living up to the camp it wanted to be. At some point, the camp realized that the camp would never reach the end of its path until it was ready or until it gave up. So, if the camp wanted to keep embezzling money and dealing with foreign powers, so be it! But, at some point, it didn't anymore. I never saw this coming, but I'm starting to think this camp is the best it's ever been.

If this is the last episode of Camp Camp we ever get -- and for at least a little while, it looks like it’s going to be -- I can’t think of a sweeter, funnier, and more lovely bittersweet note for this show to go out on.

7. The Lake Lilac Summer Social (Season 3, episode 6)

And again: No one was surprised.

This is the longest non-finale episode of the show, and it uses that time perfectly. Rather than having some big emotional moments and character arcs -- which are great, don’t get me wrong -- the writers use the extended time to build a series of shenanigans as complicated as Gwen’s matchmaking web, and watching her try to set up a series of dominos (with David, for once, being the responsible, level-headed one) is almost as satisfying as the catastrophic results.

Neil and Snake steal this episode, even from someone as in love with Gwen as I am, and for an episode that’s largely about making fun of shippers, there hasn’t been one that launched nearly as many ships as this. Neil/Snake? Tabii/Erin? Max/Nikki? GWENVID?! It’s all here, and I am here for it.

It was also fun to get a traditional episode setup in a very non-traditional show. I assume this means the beach and/or hot springs episode is forthcoming. (No, Pis/s Lake doesn’t count. Obviously it doesn’t count.)

6. Keep the Change (Season 4, episode 1)

Again, this is an episode I’ve said a lot about in the past -- and I was pretty uncharitable toward Season 3, which in retrospect was very unse/xy of me -- but I stand by a lot of my opinions then: this is a fu/cking great episode.

David is an as/shole, Max is an as/shole, Campbell is an as/shole. No one escapes the as/sholery. David schemes, Max catches him in the scheme, Campbell gets drunk and kind of gay . . . I’m 54 entries into this list and I don’t have much to say anymore: it’s just really good and fun and I love it.

5. Camp Loser Says What? (Season 4, episode 9)

This is another one I kind of hated when it came out, and again for fandom-related and personal-grudge reasons.

Fu/cking Daniel. That motherfu/cker. He shows up for 12 minutes and Tumblr bursts into flames. Every single time.

However, it’s really hard not to love this one. Daniel-as-Trump is a clever but subtle -- I mean, for this show’s definition of subtle -- allegory, and it’s amazing how much this slimy freak and the Woodscouts slot into it. David is a bise/xual disaster with the absolute worst taste in men, Dirty Kevin and Daniel are onscreen together for all of 2.5 seconds and the kevdan shippers lost their minds, and Xemug looks like Megamind for some weird reason.

My only minor complaint is that the ending is a bit anticlimactic, but it plays on Daniel’s stupidity and the value of teamwork, so it’s a very small nitpick in an episode that mostly works like gangbusters.

4. Cult Camp (Season 2, episode 1)

Duh. There’s a really good song and we’re introduced to a charismatic, sinister, and totally dumba/ss villain. What’s not to like?

I don’t think I even need to say anything about this episode. Season 2 started off the summer by throwing a lit firecracker directly at the viewer’s face, and ignoring the fact that we as a fandom proceeded to eat each other, it’s impossible not to get caught up in the episode’s wild energy.

And dude, that song. Fabulous. Fu/ck Daniel, but thank god he’s around to be such a prickly little pri/ck.

Now for the top 3: Literally perfect, wouldn’t change a single solitary thing.

3. After Hours (Season 4, episode 8)

I’m not sure anyone loved this episode as much as me. But this is my list, and I will put this up at the top if I want to and you cannot stop me.

It’s much easier in a lot of ways to talk about the episodes I hated than the ones I love this much. What do I say besides “literally everything about this fills me with joy and my life is better because it exists”? I don’t know. The counselors are my favorite characters, and between Gwen and QM having the weirdest bonding experience, Gwen getting to meet up with people who care about her silly fanfiction, Mr. Campbell being the trash grandpa of my dreams, David getting in way over his head . . . it’s the episode I always wanted, and they made it work so well.

Also, I just discovered that “Gwen Isn’t Your Mother So Stop Asking Her to Rinse Your Dishes” is an actual song and I am overwhelmed with delight. Here, I’m embedding it as well as linking because it’s so good:

youtube

God. This show. What the fu/ck even is up with this amazing, weird-as/s show.

2. The Order of the Sparrow (Season 1, episode 12)

Duh.

The entire first season is a great time (except “Reigny Day”), but it’s a pretty low-stakes kind of great time. There isn’t much in terms of emotional depth until the very end of “Camporee,” despite some hints at darker themes in one-off jokes and quick asides, so this episode comes a bit out of left field, tonally speaking.

But that’s not a bug, it’s a feature; if the show had been this overtly emotional from the outset, this finale wouldn’t hit as hard, and the rest of the season wouldn’t be as funny.

This manages to serve as a capstone to the conflict of the first season, building on episodes like “Into Town” and “Escape from Camp Campbell” in a way that feels totally natural for both David and Max’s characters while revealing new sides of them. It works because it’s so unexpected, but it doesn’t come across as incongruous with their personalities. It’s the first and only time David swears in all 4 seasons, and that line -- I don’t even need to say it, you know exactly what I’m talking about -- still gives me chills.

Also, Gwen sings the camp theme song. Impossible not to cherish.

1. The Forest (Season 4, episode 12)

I’m not sure if this one is a surprise or not. It might be the obvious first place, or it might be a bit of an oddball for some people.

I had a really hard time choosing between this and “The Order of the Sparrow”; I switched their places half a dozen times, and the difference in quality between the two is razor-thin. I think part of that is because it accomplishes a lot of what “Order of the Sparrow” does: puts David in a situation where he’s pushed to his absolute emotional and physical capacity, crushes every shred of hope he has left, and sees what he’s actually made of when you strip everything away. It’s much more dramatic this time around, but it’s the same basic concept.

And just like in the Season 1 finale, what we see is a man who’s determined to do good even when he isn’t rewarded for it, even when he’s actively punished for it. Who wants to love nature, and life, and make the world a better place -- despite his faults, his selfishness and thoughtlessness and anger, David proves that he is fundamentally kind. He’s not nearly as deludedly optimistic as he seems; he just refuses to stop trying.

Because somebody fuc/king has to.

I’ll admit, some of what puts this one in first place is that I’m a sucker for whump, and David really goes through the ringer. However, I also think it’s important to acknowledge the risk Joe Nicolosi took with writing this episode: it’s all centered around a single character, it’s darker and more viscerally bloody than any other episode in the show’s history, the art is focused on these grand sweeping backgrounds that must’ve taken forever to paint, and there’s very little talking in a show that runs 99% on clever dialogue. This could have so easily backfired -- and for some fans it did -- but it was brave and beautiful and breathtaking.

I’ve actually only watched this in full once. It’s really hard to get through; it’s just so intense and even disturbing. But if there’s one episode I'll remember for the rest of my life, even when I’m 80 years old and haven’t seen the show in years, it’ll be “The Forest.”

It’s funny how such a sharp departure from the format and style of the rest of the show somehow manages to perfectly capture the heart of it. Talk about a fuc/king achievement.

So what have we learned?

I don’t entirely know what the purpose of this whole exercise was. I think it was mostly to get myself a nice Camp Camp fix that came from something other than slogging through 20 different fanfic WIPs, and to remind myself of what a strange and fun ride the last 4 summers have been.

I also wanted to take a moment to acknowledge what Camp Camp means to me. This show has been hugely important to me on a personal level: I met two of my best friends through this fandom, and I’ve never been more connected to a community or readers than I have with CC. I know I bi/tch about this fandom a lot, but it’s a big extended internet family, and I’m so happy to be a part of it. Going through all these episodes, getting the chance to ramble about the things I liked and the things I didn’t, was a great way to reconnect with a series and community that I love.

So . . . what have we learned?

1. Season 4 was all over the place.

Some of this has to be due to the sheer volume of episodes, but when I sat down and organized everything into tiers:

There isn’t a single category Season 4 doesn’t have at least one episode in. I was surprised to see how high a lot of them ended up; it really was the best and worst of the show so far.

For the fun of it, I decided to give a number to each placement -- 60 points for the #1 episode, 59 for #2, etc. -- and see how each season broke down. Because that’s that kind of thing I think is worthwhile, apparently. And . . .

2. Seasons 1 and 4 are really good, actually.

Well, I don’t think anyone’s surprised to see how well Season 1 stacked up; it was amazing. But I was surprised to see how much I ended up enjoying Seasons 3 and 4, when if you’d asked me before this little project, I would’ve said they were the most underwhelming. Maybe I messed up the numbers a bit -- I’m no mathmagician -- but not only are they all really close, but Season 4 was one of my favorites.

3. This entire show is really good, actually.

One thing that really struck me when I put it all together visually is how most of the episodes sit in the “good,” “really good,” or “amazing” categories. The amount of episodes that are memorable, fun, and/or emotionally resonant is crazy. I don’t now how many other tiny cult-hit web series can say the same, honestly, and all of the writers, animators, directors/producers/other people whose jobs I don’t really understand, and voice actors should be commended for their outstanding talent and hard work.

4. Thank you, Camp Camp.

It was a real pleasure to relive all of these episodes again and think about what they meant to me. It won’t be the last time I sit down and watch this show -- and it certainly won’t be the end of my being a shrieking fangirl over it -- but with this break, where we have to get through a blazing, extremely difficult summer without a new season to fawn over, it’s nice to stop and appreciate what a precious gem of a show this is.

I hope everyone involved with Rooster Teeth is taking a much-deserved rest and prioritizing their health and well-being. Thank you for creating something truly special, and I can’t wait to see what happens next.

#campcamp #camp camp roosterteeth #thank you RT Animation for giving me my life these past 4 years #cc david #cc max #cc gwen #i'm not tagging all the characters #campcamp masterpost #i really hope this doesn't get hidden from the tags but #guys this was a super intense labor of love please check it out #but also reading it is also a super intense labor so i get it if you don't XD

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pocketmouse18 · 3 years ago

Text

Thank you so much to @herosofmarvelanddc @cloudypaws and @mtab2260 for the tag! This was so much fun to think about :)

(fair warning, I wrote too much for many of these...)

1. How many works do you have on AO3?

Just 2 :)

2. What's your total AO3 word count?

450,577 if I did my math right!

3. How many fandoms have you written for and what are they?

Officially? Just 1 - Agents of Shield (two, I guess, if you count MCU as separate, since I use characters from both...). Off the record, many more than that! I have lots of bits and bobs from other fandoms that I tinkered with when I was younger, still getting the hang of writing, not brave enough to post things, etc. etc. Some of those include X-Men, Harry Potter, Percy Jackson, the Fosters, Star Wars, the Hunger Games, the 39 Clues, and a few others I can’t remember. None of those will likely see the light of day, mostly because they’re unfinished, not very good, and just not reflective of who I am as a writer anymore, but they were fun to play around with at the time :)

4. What are your top 5 fics by kudos?

I just have the two, but The Important Thing is to Try wins, hands down, with 1227. Shoulder to Shoulder has 95, though, which I’m also very proud of! Important Thing has a definite advantage, being as long as it is, so I don’t know if that’s really a fair comparison between them.

5. Do you respond to comments, why or why not?

Yes! Or at least, I always try to! I just can’t believe someone would be kind enough to take the time to tell me what they thought of my story, so I always want to take the time to thank them and return the favor :) Plus, as I’ve learned, it’s a fantastic way to get to know some really lovely people!

6. What's the fic you've written with the angstiest ending?

Well... I technically only have one story that has an ending, at least on Ao3, and it’s not an especially angsty one, since it ends in Phil and Melinda getting married :) I have some angsty chapter endings in Important Thing, if that counts? I’m not even sure if any of my unpublished fiddlings have angsty endings (most don’t have endings at all lol)... I don’t mind writing angst, but I don’t know if I’m capable of making something without a happy (or at least hopeful) ending.

7. Do you write crossovers? If so, what is the craziest one you've ever written?

Not really, unless you count AoS/MCU crossovers (which I guess technically count, but also I would argue it’s not a true crossover since (and I will die on this hill) AoS is a part of MCU canon). When I was younger I was a fan of playing around with crossover AUs more so than the actual characters crossing paths (so like, what if these characters from XYZ were demigods or went to Hogwarts or what have you, and not so much what would happen if the X-Men met Luke, Leia, and Han on one of their space adventures). I started writing a crossover between AoS and the Marvel Rising cartoon once (which again, not sure if that’s a true crossover, since Daisy was in Marvel Rising, but I digress), where Coulson tasks Daisy to work with Kate Bishop and Rayshaun Lucas to collect and train a team of young Inhumans, starting with Kamala Khan, but I ran out of steam pretty quickly when it got too plot heavy.

8. Have you ever received hate on a fic?

I don’t think so. I’ve had some people not understand some choices that I made, but they asked it in a way that I thought was perfectly nice, and I was happy to talk about it with them. Sometimes people get “mad” at me when I cause pain and suffering, but I know that’s all in good fun :)

9. Do you write smut? If so, what kind?

Nope, not for me. I don’t read it or write it, personally. Writing a kiss is hard enough!

10. Have you ever had a fic stolen?

Not to my knowledge! Important Thing is probably too long and unwieldy to ever steal :P

11. Have you ever had a fic translated?

Someone once asked me on FFN if they could translate Important Thing to Russian, which was basically the coolest thing I’ve ever been asked!

12. Have you ever co-written a fic before?

A fic, no. I’d love to try sometime! I had a friend in college who I co-wrote with A LOT, though, so I know I enjoy that process, given the right partner. We wrote several short plays together (ranging from ~15-50 minutes in length, including one that we wrote in a single afternoon!), selected scenes from a larger (unfinished) play inspired by historical letters we found in an archive that were sent between a man from Massachusetts serving in the American Civil War, his wife, and his 8-year-old son, and several scripts for TV sitcoms (2 pilots for 2 different shows, plus additional eps for those pilots, and a couple of later eps for a different show that a classmate of ours wrote the pilot for - we were trying to practice what it would be like to be on a staff with a showrunner haha). The sitcom scripts in particular I’m very proud of, and could talk somebody’s ear off about if asked (one’s about ghost hunters and one’s about a DnD party!), but maybe that’s better saved for another post ;)

13. What's your all-time favorite ship?

That’s a very hard question for me! Mostly because shipping stuff is usually one of the last things to register for me when I’m thinking about shows/books/movies I like haha... I’m always a sucker for Philinda, and younger me was rather taken with Percabeth, I suppose.

14. What's a WIP that you want to finish but don't think you ever will?

Hmm, several, really. The aforementioned AoS/Marvel Rising crossover I think could be really cool if I got it to work, but I don’t think that’ll ever happen. I also have a WIP that’s like an angstier version of a Hallmark Christmas movie AU where Daisy has to come home to her small town right before Christmas and figure out what she wants out of life, but I’m a little stalled out on that one, mostly because I’m waffling on who the charming love interest should be and because I don’t have enough of a plot, just lots of feelings about coming back home to a place you thought you had left behind lol.

I’d put Important Thing and it’s (as of yet) untitled sequel on here as things I want to finish, but I’m much more determined to see those through, so I don’t think they qualify for the “never will actually write” part of this question :)

15. What are your writing strengths?

I don’t know if other people agree with this, but I think I write pretty decent dialogue. My “training” (if you can call it that) is in, as you might have figured out by now, script and screenplay writing (those were the only creative writing classes I took in college). So having a sense of the rhythm a conversation needs to have and how to write dialogue that sounds mostly like how people really talk (but shined and tightened up enough so that it’s not actually like verbatim dialogue, which is far less interesting to read!) is something that I feel like comes pretty easily. I also think I do okay with similes and metaphors - my brain tends to work in that way. It’s easier for me to think of stuff (feelings, especially) in terms of comparing it to more familiar things than to just think of the thing directly, if that makes sense?

16. What are your writing weaknesses?

If I was being honest, this would be a very long section, but I know it’s not fun to read a big ol’ paragraph of someone self-criticizing, so I’ll keep it to one or two items ;) A big one for me is pacing, I think. I tend to write more than I need to and to over-explain things, so my chapters get very long and sometimes don’t really go anywhere? Until all of the sudden, they DO, because things need to HAPPEN! I’m a pretty rigorous self-editor, but I do have a really hard time cutting out sections (unless they’re really just not working), so even if it would help the pacing to leave out this conversation between character A and character B, I often can’t make myself cut it. I also think I struggle sometimes with balancing my ‘showing’ and my ‘telling,’ especially in the sense of me over-explaining certain things - like when it comes to feelings/facial expressions/etc, for example. I compensate for that in Important Thing by making it a part of a few people’s POV, but it’s not really a good habit to have in general. Also spelling! I’m really bad at spelling and run my stuff through robust spellchecks and text-to-speech before I post anything to make up for it :)

17. What are your thoughts on writing dialogue in other languages in a fic?

I do it with some regularity, although I always get nervous about doing it wrong! It’s hard to avoid in AoS, where characters are spies and should (in theory, at least) have a working knowledge of multiple languages (”We’re spies, I thought we all learned languages?!”). Even in an AU, where characters aren’t spies, I like to try and pay homage to that, plus pay homage to certain characters’ native languages or just general multilingualism. I’ve spent a fair amount of time around people who speak more than one language, so I feel like it’s a natural part of groups of people to have more than one language spoken. I have a pretty good handle on written Spanish, a patchy idea of French, plus I know some Russian phrases from my dad and some German words from my grandfather, but I do rely on internet translation a lot. I usually run stuff through google, then run it backwards to see just how far off the initial translation was, then consult some actual, like, language learning sites to see if there’s particular idioms or common phrases that use different words than what google will give me, then run those words through backwards in the place of the original words to see if I can massage the whole thing to sound reasonably competent. Languages like Russian or Mandarin (which have their own alphabets/characters) are the hardest, since I have to also try and do a transliteration. I always try to put an apology/disclaimer in the notes any time I write in a language that isn’t English, because I’m sure I make lots of mistakes.

Also, I tend not to italicize words that are in other languages, because it looks weird on the page to me to set the other language apart like that (and because I italicize mainly for internal thoughts or emphasis, and usually what’s being said in another language isn’t internal or being emphasized). I put a rough translation at the end so we don’t have to pause the story for a parenthetical translation, but because the translation’s not right there, I try to either put in enough context clues that a person can still understand what’s going on, or I make sure that what’s written in another language isn’t critical to the overall understanding of the scene.

18. What was the first fandom you wrote for?

Officially, it’s AoS, since that’s the only fandom I’ve published for. I think the first true fandom I wrote fic for was probably either Harry Potter (entirely populated with OCs lol, I just liked using the world/setting), Percy Jackson (a mix of OCs and canon characters), or X-Men (all canon characters). I was a bit of a latecomer to fanfiction, though, like, I wrote a ton as a kid, but mostly original stuff, because I didn’t know that fanfiction in its current form was even allowed until I was in high school lol.

Oh! I almost forgot one! I’m not sure if this really counts as a fandom, but it’s definitely the earliest version of fanfic I wrote haha... I was like 12 and I wrote more than one story of an OC joining Robin Hood’s band of Merry Men, and then also one of that same OC becoming a knight of the Round Table, so like... do what you will with that information haha.

19. What's you're favorite fic you've written?

I can’t choose between my two darlings :( I mean, okay, technically it’s probably Important Thing. That story’s my baby. It’s huge and I’ve been working on it for almost 2 years, and I’ve poured a lot of my heart and soul into it. I’ve fallen in love with the universe I built in it, so much so that I wrote an entire prequel and have very concrete plans for a lengthy sequel. But I can’t not crow about Shoulder to Shoulder (the aforementioned prequel!), too... I’m just really proud of that one - it has a lot of firsts for me. First completed story. First romance-focused story. First foray into expanding the Important Thing universe. But yes, if I have to choose, then Important Thing wins. That’s a story that I started writing exclusively for myself - to give myself characters I could relate to and to explore a style of AoS fic that I loved reading - and that’s a story I will always and forever be proud of.

I think most people have probably answered this tag game at this point, so I don’t want to accidentally retag anyone! If you haven’t yet, and would like to join in, please do! This is your invitation <3

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petekaos · 5 years ago

Note

What did you think about the last episode!!

hi hi! so uhhh... this is going to get long and i’ve combined like 10 other asks i want to address, so your ask may be answered here! if you want Rahul’s Take On The 2gether Finale, then brace yourself.

...I didn't really like the last episode, I feel like it could've been a lot better/more emotional

I dunno if it's because I didn't like the last 2 episodes but even though the show literally finished I'm not emotional? The last episode I felt actually really happy watching was ep 9 but now I'm just 'ok, that show finished.' I'm sad bc I thought I would have a stronger reaction to the ending and them getting back together but I'm just meh :/

Really don't want to sound like those annoying people but damn really no kiss scene

I liked the ending, it was okay I guess but gmmtv better prepare for a shitstorm bc so many people didn't lololol

Honestly the best and well written episodes were ones where they still weren't a couple, like 8 and 9 were amazing

Although the finale was good, I feel llke in the future when I want to rewatch my favorite moments from this series, I will go for the first 10 or so episodes more often than not. It kinda feels like 2gether peaked around episodes 7-10, which is perfectly fine!! It was all in all a great series that did what it wanted to do and I’ll always cherish it but, I probably won’t rewatch much of the last two episodes

They made pam even worse!! Before she had her talk with tine anyway!!

My thoughts on the finale: could've been a lot better, could've been a lot worse

2Gether really felt like a giant inflatable castle that was carefully blown up for the past 12 weeks only to let it rapidly and poorly deflate in the end

The ending was fine and was expected but for me it's underwhelming in the sense that the past episodes, especially 4, 8 and 9 were really written in comparison so the finale is kinda meh bc I knew there was gonna be a happy ending. But still the YouTube comments and what some people on tumblr are saying is ridiculous, I don't want to even think about Twitter but imo I don't think any of gmmtvs other shows can top dbks ending like that ending was perfect,

i honestly love that 2gether focused so much on the story and the emotion and became so successful without all the usual fan service. i hope the whole industry takes something away from that! but i still felt like the finale was a little emotionally stunted when it came to tine/sarawat. i just wanted a big YES, I CHOOSE YOU moment, and tine's reappearance and the bracelet scene just didn't do it for me. you know what would have, though? a kiss. or a hug, or holding hands, or something sweet

okay, my friends! here is my opinion on the 2gether finale first, and then i’m gonna address what i personally hold of the more negative response the fandom has shown. i generally thought the finale had... a solid ending. i went into it with absolutely no expectations apart from sarawat’s song and a happy ending, because i knew it would be messy and not as good as ep 4 or 9 etc, considering the sheer amount of open storylines that were left to be resolved in one episode. i knew it would polarise the fandom--but i personally thought the ending was fine! a bit cliche, a bit rushed, but it was okay and it was a good enough ending for me to put 2gether behind me, the first season at least. the bracelet scenes and shots were amazing, the song was incredible (although i wish they would have had sarawat sing a bit more), the conversation pam and tine had was solid as well! there were a lot of things i liked about the finale and bright and win killed their solo acting as always. however, there are some things i wanna get into more detail about that i feel could have been done better, not only as a finale but as a show itself.

time allocated for the storylines. or: plotlines in general. this has been my bone to pick ever since episode 10. not gonna lie, this wasn’t good, especially from ep 10 onwards. there were so many storylines and plotlines that were dragged out further than necessary, and so many plotlines that should have started earlier. best example for this is mil and phukong, the mil redemption storyline should have started in ep 10 and should have had him be sincere for once, and the mil/phukong storyline should have actually made sense from the beginning and started in ep 11 at the latest. the mantype storyline should have also started a bit earlier than that and given us an explanation as to why type was crying at the retreat. however, mantype did pull it off!

writing! this ties in with the first point. the writing felt a bit inconsistent in the last two episodes and it’s a pity, really, that this is one of the downfalls :/ all the actors in this series, from the mains (bright, win, mike, toptap, frank, drake) to the side characters (gunsmile, love, gigie, film, etc.) are such good actors and it’s unfortunate that the last three episodes were a bit :// in terms of writing and plotlines. they all did the best they could with what was written and that... yeah.

conflict. this has to do with the first two points. the finale felt rushed. that’s something that i don’t think anyone really can argue? and i expected that, so i wasn’t too disappointed by it or anything. obviously it would have felt rushed considering the fact that they had to wrap up 3 or 4 episodes’ worth of storylines in one episode, which was a blunder on the writers’ part. the conflict fell flat, then. if they had had pam come in earlier and had tine and sarawat spend more time away from each other, we would have gotten an explosive reaction. i really do think that after they got together for real, the writers struggled to find conflict to keep the story going, jumping from tine’s insecurities to mil to pam for no reason whatever. i think it would have been much better done if we had mil as an antagonist wrapped up and on the road to redemption in ep 10 and had pam come in there, with tine’s insecurities as a b plot. i feel that would have been a bit more gripping. but, hey, guess that’s just me!

order of filming. this has to do with people saying that brightwin’s chemistry was off in the finale. i don’t think it was off, per se, but it was definitely lacking when we compare it to their chemistry in ep 4 or 9 or 10, y’know? that’s because i believe the finale was filmed earlier, when bright and win were still getting to know each other and figuring out how well they could improv. and they can improv, from what we’ve seen! so there really is nothing i can say apart from the fact that it’s a bit disappointing that they decided to film such a pivotal scene at the beginning. if it had been filmed in the end, it would have definitely been better!

flashbacks. the finale needed all the time it was gonna get, and i am disappointed by the amount of flashbacks they used, honestly. i would have cut down on the number of sarawatine flashbacks and used them sparingly when they reunited, because that just... makes sense and evokes emotion in the viewer, you know? the only flashbacks that served well were type’s view of everything and phukong and mil, because they were new. it just... felt a bit inauthentic.

pam. or: the girls in general. there is nothing i can do here but SCREAM. pam should have come in way earlier and replaced mil as the centre point of conflict for ep 11 and 12 to have been as good as the rest of the show, or ep 4 and 9 at least. her character fell so flat and the conflict she brought with her fell so flat as well, honestly. the girls should have been done better--more of earn and sarawat! more of pear! they could have tied into the plot effortlessly!

mil and phukong x mil. yeah this is a... whole ass bulletpoint, unfortunately. call me a clown all you want for expecting him to have at least a half assed redemption arc in the finale but goddamn was that... not good. really bitter over the fact phukong was straight up okay with being a “replacement” for tine even though... that doesn’t even make sense. i just... yeah, this wasn’t good. i feel super bad for frank and drake because they deserve a well written show or at the very least a well written storyline for all of their chemistry and work they put in, considering the fact that they are so so young. i could go on about a good mil arc for ages but i just... yeah i’m writing a fic, so y’all will see.

the reunion. this stems from the flat conflict and the rushed-ness of it all, but yeah. it wasn’t particularly hard-hitting, but i still enjoyed it because it’s sarawat and tine. this has to do with when they filmed as well, and just... because the angst didn’t start early enough for it to hit home. and i really do wish we’d had a scene after that with the both of them, alone. a lot of their things happen with a lot of people around them... and nah.

one year later. bro. bro. bro. the music club thing was cute! but i would have just... loved to see them alone, y’know? a scene of them being alone and intimate, just sitting next to each other on the couch or at a football game or sarawat continuing bringing the cheerleaders snacks, even a year later. them going to another concert. anything where they were just... alone. i wanted to see them together! we got that with mantype and we even got that fucking... scene on the roof where mil and phukong were just fuckin around? yeah? i would have loved to see that with sarawat and tine so much. (also btw pretty sure the rooftop scenes with mil and phukong is also where drake and frank took this photo and it made me so happy dhsndh like... the shot where mil took his hand off phukong’s eyes? i called it immediately and my partner was like ???)

intimacy. chemistry. the biggest thing everyone is talking about. now comes the part that y’all all wanted to know if you’ve been reading this far lmfao, my take on the fact that was no kiss in the finale! and my take is... i expected there to be no kiss in the finale somewhere deep within, and honestly i’m fine with not having a kiss. my only problems with all of this are first of all, that we didn’t get a proper kiss in the entire series and had sarawat kissing tine one-sidedly. secondly, i would have loved verbal intimacy as well! an i love you, or y’know, some hand holding, anything! this is also due to the fact that i believe the series was filmed relatively early on. i just wish... again, that they would have been alone one year later and we could have just seen them being domestic, as we have already seen them!

so those are some of my thoughts on the finale. considering the fandom’s response... i can see why people are upset or disappointed but i don’t think it’s, like, that justified to throw the whole show away as well. yeah, the ending wasn’t perfect, but if you’ve enjoyed the show as a whole... maybe it’s okay, y’know? like, personally, i don’t think i’m ever going to rewatch the finale. but i do love the earlier episodes and i am gonna watch them back at some point, probably! it’s all well and good and valid to criticise the lack of intimacy and kissing in the finale i guess, but if you’re a straight girl then maybe... watch your words. 2gether has portrayed a wonderful love story between two men and to see straight people throw it away as “bromance” or say it’s the “straightest bl of all time” or whatever because of the lack of kisses is kind of hurtful. i am completely open to discussing this with lgbt people, mlm specifically, and you can come talk to me about your thoughts if you’re a straight woman as well. all i’m asking for is that you maybe show a little bit of empathy and respect, y’know? i also do think 2gether peaked around episode 9/10 and i’m fine with that! it gave me so much more than characters and relationships--it gave me the fandom and everyone here and words cannot express how grateful i am for all of you. maybe the last few episodes were poorly written and the finale wasn’t everything y’all hoped for... but i did and do love this show. i cannot wait to see where brightwin go next.

#tried to put this under a cut but it gave up on me lmfaooo #also yeah dbk finale was perfect nothing can compare dsmdhs #2gether the series #2gether finale #for my own tagging purposes #ref #rahul answers

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wxsuthorn · 4 years ago

Text

ranking every single asian drama/series/movie that i have ever watched

(this isn’t 100% accurate cuz I’ve decided to include shows that are still airing and they may move up or down on the list once they’ve finished airing. Shows with multiple seasons/spin-offs will be counted as one unless I decided that they’re too different to be in one rank. And lastly, I don’t dislike the shows that are low on the list—unless I explicitly say so—I’ve just watched a shitload of dramas, so don’t attack me if ur fave is at 26 or smth lmao)

I did my best to keep the explanations short and avoid spoilers

1. The Gifted

Are you surprised? Do I even need to explain?

2. HIStory 3: Trapped

Again, should be pretty self-explanatory. The plot? The acting? The tropes? Utter perfection.

3. 3 Will Be Free

Haha. 3wbf... is 3rd place. It’s just amazing and so criminally underrated.

4. Until We Meet Again

I LOVE THIS SHOW SM I WATCHED IT 7 TIMES KLJFSLKJDFS I JUST LOVE IT PLUS FLUKE’S ACTING AND DEANPHARM ARE JUST SO HEALTHY AND WHOLESOME AND CARING I LOVE THEM.

5. He’s Coming To Me

a GODLY show !!! SO UNDERRATED. Ugh that rooftop scene TT.

6. The Untamed

I know it’s shocking that this isn’t higher up IM SORRY OKAY but this show was so good i cried so much lksjlfjdsfdjlkf GOD TIER.

7. Theory of Love

G O D L Y. It has the best scenes that just punch you in the gut and make you cry while you think about them at night.

8. Great Men Academy

WHY DOES NO ONE TALK ABOUT THIS SHOW. anyways i would die for tangmo.

9. Cherry Magic

MY FAVOURITE ON AIR SHOW. It’s so fucking good and it’s sooooo relatable and cute and fun and just GOOD. Ugh it’s a whole blessing. Literally the concept is also just amazing, plus the representation is actually accurate?? LIKE ITS SO RELATABLE JLSJFKJKJKD AND REAL. AND THE CHARACTERS ARE SO KLJLKFJDLKJLSKJD.

10. I Told Sunset About You

THE SETS ARE SO PRETTY. THE VISUALS. ASTOUNDING. THE ACTING KSLJFKJLDF. It exceeded my expectations holy crap and the chinese culture incorporated into it feels so nice and genuine. literally i watched some of it today before my chinese class lmao. OMG AND THE OST.

11. Mr. Heart

ugh this show stole my heart (pun intended).

12. Dark Blue Kiss

SO. GODDAMN. UNDERRATED. THE WAY IT ACCURATELY REPS LGBTQ+ YOUTH’S RELATIONSHIPS WITH THEIR PARENTS AND COMING OUT AND EXPECTATIONS G O D L Y

13. Oxygen

SOFT. HEALTHY. CUTE. H E I G H T D I F F E R E N C E.

14. 2gether

would’ve been higher if it werent for the last two episodes of the show, but still2gether redeemed it quite a bit.

15. HIStory 2: Crossing The Line

QIU ZIXUAN LKDSJFLDJLJFDKJSLJ CUTE AS FUCK.

16. Where Your Eyes Linger

tHAT OST. AND THE LAST SCENE. I MEAN SHIT SLJFSDKJFLSDJFK.

17. HIStory 2: Right or Wrong

it’s so soft and at first i was so hesitant to watch it with the age gap but it was surprisingly like really healthy? and like the mom with the fruit knife?

18. Love By Chance

IM SORRY I PUT THIS SO LOW its just that klano and tumtar were not my cup of tea and i watched it mostly for aepete only for them to be apart at the end of season 1. I like season 2 but this time i only have tincan...

19. Gameboys

okay i was going to put this way higher because ITS SO FUCKING GOOD LITERALLY but then again i felt more impressed/attached to the ones above... BUT LITERALLY PEARL AND CAIREEL ARE JUST SDLSJDFSKDFL THE BEST.

20. Sotus

If i could put multiple shows in one rank i would but ive decided not too cuz then there would only be 6 ranks with 10 shows in each one... that’s why sotus is so low TT SORRY I LOVE IT BUT I LOVE OTHER SHOWS A LITTLE MORE.

21. 2Moons2

it was enjoyable. I didn’t like the main couple much tho.

22. Red Wine In The Dark Night

omg this movie i really liked it especially the ending it was really symbolic and i really like slight-horror type things. also FLUKE !!!! a KING of acting.

23. Transit Girls

SOFT WLW.

24. My Engineer

don’t get me wrong i love this show BUT it’s yet another engineering concept and i just don’t see it going above the other dramas...

25. Why R U

the plot was messy but the chemistry between the actors saved the entire show.

26. TharnType

I KNOW ITS LOW DONT KILL ME the plot was good but i don’t like how lhong was painted as a misunderstood little boi like HE IS A CRIMINAL DONT GIVE HIM A REDEMPTION ARC AND DONT TRY TO MAKE ME PITY HIM. also the non-con was uncomfy as hell.

27. A Round Trip To Love

THE CINEMATOGRAPHY AND SYMBOLISM ON GOD ISLJFDLJD. i don’t see this movie as like... an example of a healthy relationship... but the story itself is really interesting and the way the characters change yet stay the same is cool.

28. The Shipper

i enjoyed watching it but i dont think i could rewatch it. it was good nonetheless, i don’t regret watching it at all.

29. Together With Me

it’s good. but the side plots/side couples were not it. yihwa is a queen tho.

30. Ingredients

SOOOOO CUTE LSKJFDKJJF. but the plot is kinda nonexistent but IT DOESNT MATTER CUZ ITS CUTE AND FLUFFY AND UWU AND JEFF.

31. The Effect

this show gave me depression but damn the theme was so real.

32. Guardian

everything was going great until the jin ling dude got a girlfriend and the end happened.

33. History 3: Make Our Days Count

i was spoiled for the ending and it ruined my watching experience TT

34. YYY

i love it

35. Addicted

It was my first bl drama and i really liked it but again the non-con/kidnapping thing makes me uncomfy. also IT WAS DISCONTINUED IM SO SAD SLKDJFLSKJDFKSJD IT ENDED ON A CLIFFHANGER THEN WAS CANCELLED TT

36. Make It Right

fuse took too long to break up with his gf honestly oasflsajdfaldj bUT FRAME AND BOOK.

37. My Gear And Your Gown

CUTE but its another engineering x medical student trope and it’s still airing so i dont have too much of an opinion on it.

38. Pearl Next Door

its still airing (only 2 eps are out as of the time im writing this) and istg if pearlex isnt endgame im suing.

39. Friend Zone

first season was good but season two is gripping me by the throat.

40. Because Of You 2020

CUTE

41. The Lover

i only watched the bl cuts but they were cute

42. Lovesick

season one was great but season 2 was too long i skipped so much of it lmao.

43. Puppy Honey

ngl i only watched it for offgun lmao. season one was good and i watched the hets too but season 2 was when i only watched the offgun scenes lmao

44. En Of Love

tossara was my fave cuz they cute and healthy.

45. As If You Whisper

it was so short but so nice TT.

46. I’m Tee, Me Too

still airing... kinda pointless?

47. 2 Moons

the acting... oof

48. My Dream

it started out so promising but THE FUCKING ENDING WAS LKSDJFLKS

49. Kiss + Kiss Me Again

I only watched the petekao scenes lmao.

50. History 1: Away From Me

cutee

51. History 1: Obsession

interesting?

52. HIStory 1: My Hero

fine

53. My Day

i dropped it... tell me if i should get back into it cuz i kinda just wasn’t feeling it.

54. Lily Fever

cute wlw but it made no sense?

55. Hotel Stars

sorta dry lmao

56. The Best Twins

i dropped it but thor was epic

57. Reminders

PERTH’S ACTING KSJLFDJL but like what was the point? idk it was kinda frustrating.

58. 2Wish

i honestly don’t even remember what happened lmao

59. The Moment; I Need You

i just couldn’t when the guy faked an od. other than that it was eh. second season was better than the first (idk if it counts as a season tho cuz its so short)

60. Waterboyy (series)

DISGUSTING I HATE IT SO MUCH ITS TERRIBLE FUCK THIS SHOW I DESPISE IT

#this was so hard to do #so many good shows #the gifted graduation #2gether #bl drama #theory of love #love my chance #thai drama #tharntype #uwma #he’s coming to me #pearl next door #oxygen #the gifted #tgg #the last and first rank were the easiest to decide #fuck waterboyy honestly #all my homies hate waterboyy

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nicknellie · 4 years ago

Note

Honestly time just doesn’t exist anymore lol. Sadly I didn’t have an hour or so until now so I hope I can ‘ask’ this soon. (Same to you, good whatever time of day it is for you!)

Box stuff: (honestly that’s a bit hilarious because we have shifted so far from box stuff and I think this is where Reggie taking people‘s baby pictures came from)

1. I love how you have classic teenage boy angst starting with caps that’s funny. And very true, Alex will come over as soon as he can and tell Luke how much of an idiot he’s being but affectionately (also in the way that friends can but if parents tried to do the same you wouldn’t listen yk)

Yes, mom and son bonding time. I just love the idea of Alex telling Emily everything that’s happening while they are cleaning or making food is adorable. And Emily spreading gossip is everything (also Luke’s childhood stories because what best friend doesn’t want to lovingly tease their friend)

Wait I love that idea. Personally I don’t feel like Alex or Reggie would go to their parents just because it seems as if they left on bad terms. Although Luke did leave on bad terms with his parents as well, I just feel that checking in on them once is something that he would want to do. Also that last sentence is sad, kind of shows that when something happens to someone there will always be another person who is affected by this. That you can’t always tie up loose ends, for example in the show we see the boys say just before ‘the band is back’ that in those 25 years they don’t know what happened to their friends or their family. So it’s easy to assume that they had friends outside of the band and whomever they are possibly the boys would’ve wanted to say something to them but they never got a chance to. (Also I’ve seen theories where the boys have siblings which if this is true then maybe one of them could go back to that sibling/s)

Yea the song is sad. Also could relate to Julie and how she lost her mom that how in the show. They kind of dance around the fact that the boys are some thing that Rose sent down to her ‘you were an angel in the shape of my mom’.

(Also if you want another sad song, ‘soon you’ll get better’ by Taylor Swift because if Rose did die from cancer like some theories I’ve seen have suggested then this song which is very emotional and kind of talks about this as well could relate to Julie and her mom as well) (I promise you can throw some sad songs my way as well, I know I’m just throwing really sad ones at you lol)

Anyways, going back to the actual conversation. I believe that we did say Emily and Julie are close because they’ve met before and just in general after Julie gave her that song they became closer. But yes they hear it one day and just get so upset, maybe someday Julie plays it for Emily and Mitch 🥺

3. I love that, also adding onto this Willie is basically the same way however his experiments don’t turn out nearly as well also he’s just in love with the fact that Alex can legitimately not use a recipe book but make some thing extraordinary. But yes, Luke and Reggie are horrified especially when Alex throws the recipe book. ‘Bye bye Mr. Recipe Book’ as you said.

Board games and jam:

1. Yes, exactly. Reggie just starts laughing when Alex throws that one but quickly stops when Alex throws one at him as well

Exactly, his weapon of choice is his drumsticks, which may not seem threatening but seeing as which Alex is rather tall and weirdly has very good aim they hurt when he throws them.

That is what I was picturing, like Caleb just looks in shock for a second because how dare someone throw drumsticks at him, but at the same time someone threw a drumstick at him.

Among us

Yes, Alex is always annoyed how everyone voted for him with no prove. So he always tries to sabotage Luke, every chance he has.

Alex kind of gives up not talking to Willie after about 10 minutes, his puppy dog eyes convince Willie to never do that again. (Also because Alex has no problems killing Willie if needed)

Honestly everyone just kills Luke first and he gets upset about it but everyone is laughing. Also exactly, if he doesn’t die first then he is usually the imposter.

Accessories- I actually looked at them before I made my comments and I completely forgot about the hat as well but I saw it and I was like oh that’s such a Reggie move. Yes that is exactly why Carlos has the paper bag.

Honestly Flynn being competitive is everything and very true. Also yes, she is totally impatient like I’ve read these rules probably three times and this decision is taking forever so give money.

Alex just sneaking Willie money is very in character and I love that. Alex just being like no is similar to how he says it during the ‘girls am I right’ scene

Honestly monopoly just takes forever and sometimes people just don’t have the patience for that also as you said arguments are a very real thing that happen. (honestly part of the reason why I said Flynn is competitive because depending on the game I can be the same exact way)

Oh yes, Flynn is just like you’re trying to accuse me of cheating and you’re trying to pretend that we haven’t seen you smuggling Willie cash this entire time, Sure Alex.

Oh my goodness, and while Reggie is avoiding Luke. Alex in the background just casually says something like ‘now you know how I feel.’

Numbers:

2. Exactly, and of course Alex is just like Aw Willie is laughing so I may forgive this for now but you’re still replacing this.

Yea I’m hoping that Arthur will grow on me. Also I just haven’t had a lot of time to Address to his character aside from like the two interactions with Merlin who honestly if anything kind of starts the fright.

Exactly. Alex just being done with Luke 24/7, ‘I’ve had to save him 25 times so far, how is that possible’

6. That’s hilarious because Alex is freaking out over this cute hair flip however at the same time he is in the thought processes of ‘oh I have to act cool in front of my best friends because they will definitely tease me more later, so what should I do’

Exactly, honestly I don’t blame you and I totally support that writing decision lol. (On that note best of luck with your other requests, also with school because it seems like it’s been a tiny bit stressful and I don’t mean to over impose but I just hope you’re doing well!)

8. Oo I’m excited for the tangent. I completely agree they are the perfect recipe for a band because their strengths are each other’s weaknesses so they’re able to balance each other out so well. Also in a way where one of them won’t get a big head or anything.

Luke- exactly, and although he does have his insecurities the others are able to balance this and help him out just as much as he helps them. Especially where he is kind of like the leader of the band unofficially with being the lead singer and everything it’s easier for him to possibly get cocky or something but we don’t see that. More often then not, as you mentioned it he tries to be there for his band and make sure that they are doing well before he thinks about himself.

Reggie- precisely, honestly I feel like some people don’t recognize how important an instrument is until you don’t hear it anymore (will bring this up later with Alex). And if they didn’t have the bass line and the one set of back up vocals that Reggie provides (Alex/Bobby as well) then the songs would definitely be lacking some thing. He has such an incredible vocal range, which I feel like is shown rather well in stand tall because although he doesn’t have a lot of solos. It kind of shines very well in the solos he has in that song. (Also the actor in general just released an EP which also not only displays his musical ability with the instruments he can play but his vocal ability as well)

Also, as you mentioned his kind of role as the happy one kind of balances out Luke’s go with the flow, (honestly not sure for Bobby they haven’t shown his character a lot to know but possibly another voice of reason) and Alex who can overthink things and can be mature.

Alex- kind of like what I said earlier. When Alex says get ‘woke these are sensitive times’ due to Luke saying that they didn’t need to have a drummer for that song (later we see that Alex is drumming in that song) if they didn’t have a drummer for that song then the entire tone of the song would’ve been changed because they didn’t have percussion and it possibly could’ve been overwhelmed with string instruments.

Agreed, it’s easier for the drummer to be overlooked but he keeps the rest of the band on track and if the one that the boys fall to if something goes wrong (for example when they appear and Julie starts freaking out, Alex says that he should handle it and the boys let him immediately).

Bobby- Yes, I feel like if season two focuses on the past of Sunset Curve a bit more then it will be easier for us to see what exactly his dynamic is in the band. Exactly, they would be lost without having Bobby in their band. And as you mentioned, he is part of the glue that holds them together from our previous discussions as him being a counselor and who the band would turn to.

I love how you described it because you’re completely right. Without the other three there then it’s easier for Bobby to feel more alone because now he doesn’t have his support system that he’s relied on for who knows how many years. Also as you mentioned he doesn’t have the band reminding him to either let loose a little bit or when to stop so he’s easier to manipulate if that’s the direction that the show wants to take. Honestly I just don’t want to think about Alex or Reggie or Luke being alone that night but exactly, they would be a mess without each other.

11. Honestly Reggie just forgetting to mention that he met celebrities at their concert and stuff is such a in character move.

(Noted, we can just pretend that it happened in like 1994 lol)

17. Oh my goodness, I know we mentioned that Reggie had a Caleb scrapbook. However honestly I forgot about that and it’s hilarious to think about Nick having his own page in that scrapbook due to when Caleb. possessed him.

Oh my goodness, yes. Just like ‘I get that you are trying to take our souls however I want your baby pictures right now’ - Reggie.

Honestly I just want Caleb to be good just because not only is the fashion incredible but Cheyenne Jackson is such a phenomenal singer and it would be sad if due to the character being a villain that eventually they had to get rid of him.

Precisely, he just want to protect them all and he totally would love Julie for the reasons that you said.

I love the idea of Reggie just walking into the White House and basically everyone jumping out of their seats and helping Reggie take over the world.

19. Exactly, they seem to have a very good alliance between them however as the snow fight continues they all just switch sides and eventually it is just Willie and Carlos, Julie and Reggie, and Luke and Alex. (they are really bad at keeping alliances, in the end everyone has had an alliance with everyone) (and or just keep the teams I mentioned but they are definitely chaotic enough for every team possible to happen)

20. Same here, and it’s just so easy to tell that they are close together which makes the their chemistry on screen seem really believable. (Friends, ect)

Exactly, they do you have a few moments however it’s that way for every actor and some of those may just depend on personal preference. Also for quite a few of them as they get more experience than how they act will definitely improve and honestly just seeing how phenomenal they are now, I can’t wait for that to happen

Honestly yes, just jealous Willie I guess. Also just completely ignoring what is happening on screen and what the show is literally trying to show them.

I agree ,because although I feel like it would be interesting if somehow the theory was in the show. At the same time I just feel like it would overwhelm the show and it would be easier for Caleb to turn nice then for him to not be the one at fault. That’s an interesting theory, honestly I didn’t think of him handing over HGC over to Willie and is a new take that may be nice to explore, if the show wishes to.

Honestly, Luke and Flynn‘s friendship does deserve its own post. And legitimately if anyone messes with Julie then they would have to run because not only would Flynn and Luke have problems with them but the rest of the ghost boys alongside Caleb probably would come after them as well.(And the family)

21. Phew, I’m glad you I agree because I legitimately have no reasoning for that except for I just want to see Alex just casually say one day that he got arrested and have Willie just be so startled.

Oh yeah Reggie and Luke would start the fire but Alex would be the reason that it’s continuing to burn while Bobby is just unbothered on the side. Going with the Sunset Curve graffiti, that’s exactly what happened but if any asks they have no clue how it got there.

25. I’m just imagining Carrie accidentally being turned the wrong way for some of the conversation and then she faces Willie and although he was laughing before he all of a sudden gets really serious. (Although it’s Luke’s and Reggie‘s shovel talk that makes him the most afraid)

I love how you’re like it’s not because I want Flynn and Carrie to be together however that’s basically the entire reason. (I embellished a little bit but yeah) But I do agree, I feel like Carrie and Nick could have such a great potential to be friends. I love how you said that it’s Caleb who says yes to going back to Carrie that makes her suspicious not anything else that he does.

26. Oh my goodness, a little list to annoy Alex.

32. Honestly the fact that Alexander‘s Reggie back to the park manager with a batch of cookies is such a mom friend to do and a very in character move for Alex.

37. Legitimately Reggie is just banned from using laundry mostly because Alex and Luke were very horrified that day which they never want to experience again. Yes, and it wasn’t even a colour that made sense but one that theoretically is supposed to be impossible but Reggie managed to do the impossible.

I also love the little detail of candles being banned from the studio because Luke once out his arm in it. Also going off of that Luke and Reggie are also banned from using lighters just because they think arson is fun and would definitely try to set something on fire.

Oh my goodness, Luke being on fire and Alex just being done ‘Luke we are dead it’s not going to hurt’, and Julie is just saying something along the lines of how did this even happen. (Reggie is kind of panicking as well but he is probably the reason why Luke is on fire)

I love the fact that Julie is the first person who believed Reggie about having the Queen‘s baby pictures because that is adorable. Also just because a Reggie and Julie friendship is needed so much.

Good whatever time of day it is for you (honestly love that lmao)! 100%, time hasn’t existed since like March which is why I accidentally slept from four til nine and am now answering this at half midnight because I’m unable to sleep and also it’s brilliant, but anyway!

Box Stuff (oh yeahhh this is where the baby photos came from!)

1. Lmao I love that idea, Alex comes in and sees Luke like sat amongst utter chaos and he just goes “Luke, that was dumb” about whatever he did and Luke just grumbles “I know” obviously doing the angry puppy face. Also I love that detail, like if a parent said it then it’d be unacceptable but it’s a friend so it’s fine, I totally get that. He’s like “this is what I think you should do” and Luke grudgingly listens.

Side note: the way we’ve been talking about Alex is really really strongly reminding me of one of my irl friends and this is literally nothing to do with any of this but I’m now projecting her onto Alex so I wanna headcanon that Alex was really close with teachers. Not in a weird way, like they just got on well with him because he was a good student and he was bright and happy when he wanted to be, and he was mature and well-mannered and everyone he ever met would do anything for him. It’s not like he was a teacher’s pet, it was more like they trusted him and were friendly with him and tended to give him higher grades because he was so nice.

Anyway, idk if that made sense, but back to the actual points! Omggg yes Emily telling Alex all Luke’s stories! (Like places he got stuck as a child bc as we know Luke will get stuck anywhere 😂) Alex starts bringing them up whenever Luke is being particularly annoying - “bold words for someone who cried when they met Mickey Mouse at Disneyworld” and bonus points if Emily happens to be in the room (like they’re at Luke’s house or whatever) smirking to herself because she loves her boys

You put this so beautifully omg 🥺 I think you’re definitely right about all of this, Alex and Reggie would have not wanted to see their parents and given that opportunity to Luke instead. And like yeah exactly!! Alex says they had other friends but we never hear anything about them and it makes me wonder what they did when the band died. Also this got me thinking about tributes the school would have held for them and all the different things going on in their honour, and people being careful with Bobby (like people were with Julie after Rose died) because he’s been so down and them all carefully offering their condolences and saying they’re sorry for his loss and ouch. Oooh yes personally I really like the idea of Alex having a sister who’s quite a lot younger than him like ten years but I think that’s just me projecting, no matter what I definitely think he had a sister. It says in the show that Luke was an only child (and sidenote: that made me headcanon that Mitch and Emily really struggled to have kids, possibly going through infertility treatment and Luke was the only child they didn’t lose during pregnancy but they still ended up losing him anyway), and also I like the idea that Reggie had an older brother who he didn’t see much. I think Alex would have liked to see his sister again but Reggie wouldn’t have minded either way about seeing his brother

I haven’t heard that song but I’ll make sure to listen to it in the morning! And I’m so glad you said I could suggest songs lol because I literally only heard this for the first time about an hour ago but I’m already in love with it - Don’t Stop... by Oasis is literally such a beautiful song and I can definitely imagine it as something Rose wrote to Julie, Ray and Carlos like Wake Up before she died, or alternatively a song sort of similar but not really to Unsaid Emily, more like Luke trying to comfort Emily. It’s less sad and more sort of comforting and emotional, but it’s absolutely gorgeous!

Omggg Julie playing that for Mitch and Emily, I would cryyyy. I feel like the Patterson’s have a piano so Julie would be at their house one day and start playing the chords and humming along and Emily and Mitch would watch as she slowly starts singing and it turns into a proper performance and everyone’s crying by the end omg I love it

3. Lmao that’s great, Willie sees Alex improvise and is like “how hard can it be?” and tries it by himself and almost sets the kitchen on fire. Alex just isn’t even surprised and helps him clean up, then the next time Willie wants to do it Alex helps him - turns out Willie should just be banned from the kitchen at all costs because even with Alex there it still ends up going wrong. And I love that, how Luke and Reggie would just be horrified when Alex throws the book away. Like Luke would go and get it from the trash or wherever Alex chucked it across the room and would nervously say “you need this buddy?” but Alex just waves him away like “NO it’s stupid get it out of my sight”

Board Games and Jam

1. Pfffft this whole thing literally made me laugh out loud. Reggie thinking it’s hilarious but his face immediately falling when Alex is against him, immediately trying to backpedal.

Also I read it wrong bc I thought it said “Alex is weirdly tall” and I was like I’m pretty sure he’s not like much over six foot that’s normal??? Then I read it properly and was like oh ok that makes more sense. And also you’re right, like a drumstick may be a flimsy piece of wood but Alex has perfected his technique and good god it hurts if it hits you

Lmao that’s exactly what I was imagining too! Caleb just looking completely flabbergasted because How Dare someone throw something at him?? And while he’s still looking shocked, another drumstick hits him. He starts to look annoyed more than shocked and another drumstick hits him. Eventually, he carries on with his evil speech, now looking resigned and a little fed up because he’s still being pelted with drumsticks and can’t figure out where Alex is getting them all from

Among Us

Wait yeah I love that, I wanna build on that a little - he gave up on not talking to him because Willie was sat next to him and continuously poking him while saying “I said I’m sorry hotdog please love me” and Alex literally can’t resist, so he’s like “fine on one condition” then whips out the puppy dog eyes and asks Willie never to do it again and Willie agrees instantly. Alex kills him literally the next round.

It gets to the point where if someone finds Luke’s body and there was no one near it at the time then they’ll just ignore it and won’t even call an emergency meeting bc they can’t accuse anyone of being sus because it could literally be any one of them unless someone was running away from the body. Luke gets annoyed so quickly and won’t do his tasks as a ghost because everyone is laughing at him and being mean about his death

Exactly! Flynn has the rules memorised word for word and if someone tries to do something they can’t she will literally be out of her seat like “NO bitch play by the rules, why can none of you play this game properly?!” and everyone is like “... calm down all he did was accidentally move his piece three spaces instead of two. chill.”

YES LOL that’s exactly what the “no” is like absjdldl

I love that so much, also because I feel like they wouldn’t really talk much outside of game nights and stuff - like Willie would be good friends with Flynn so Alex would talk to her whenever they all hang out, but most of the time it’s just them as a group so their interactions are almost always them arguing about the rules of Monopoly. The only time they’re in agreement is if Luke (and only Luke) does something wrong then they will gang up on him, Flynn bc the rules are very important to her and Alex bc he thinks it’s funny

Literally same, tbh I’m usually the one who starts arguments during any board game so it’s good we can both project our competitiveness onto Flynn 😂😂

Pffffft yeah lmao Alex just has no sympathy for Reggie’s struggle

Numbers

2. Omg that’s great lmao, love how you just slightly changed the 25 years quote. I’d like to add “You know what else is rude? Not thanking me for literally saving your life. Get woke, these are sensitive times.”

6. It leads to a disastrous conversation that goes something like Willie saying something and Alex giving a panicked response then Willie replying and Alex attempting to give a chill response bc the guys are watching and the whole thing ends up awkward

Unrelated sort of, but it kinda reminds me of this scene in a show called Miranda (idk if you’ve ever watched it? Again it’s one of my all-time favourite shows. It’s getting an American remake actually called Call Me Kat which Cheyenne Jackson is in!!) where the main character Miranda is talking to the love interest Gary. Basically they’ve not seen each other in years and so Gary asks what’s going on in her life and she tells him she’s an Olympic gymnast. Later he asks if she’s seeing anyone, she says she’s married and has two kids called Orlando and Bloom. Gary says he’s single and she’s like “oh me too” so he asks about the husband and kids and she’s like “we’re divorced now. The kids are... dead” anyway yeah now I wanna write a Miranda AU lmao

8. Luke - exactly!! His selflessness can be dangerous sometimes bc he might just forget to take care of himself but the others balance it out. Also yeah it would be so easy for him to get cocky but he just doesn’t because the band means so much to him!

Reggie - yes to all of that! His solo in Stand Tall is beautiful, and I legit can’t remember if I brought this up before but my favourite Reggie lyric is that “today!!” in Now or Never because it’s just amazinggg. And yes!! Jeremys new music is literally so good, I haven’t listened to all of it but like you said it’s such a great display of his abilities and he’s so so so underrated within the fandom and in general

Alex - yes!! That’s the perfect example because even luke doesn’t realise how important Alex’s part is and like that’s Luke of all people

Wait yeah that’s a great example! Alex keeps them on track by trying to calm Julie - I mean, admittedly he doesn’t do a great job (“wHy ArE yOu In OuR sTuDiO?!”) but they know that he’ll be the best guy for the job

Bobby - exactly I just wish we had more information from the show to go on for him!!

And ok ok ok just this got me thinking - imagine if it had been Luke left alone that night. He finds that his three brothers are dead and he’s just completely lost. It suddenly feels like his dreams have been crushed because he doesn’t want to go on with music without the band. He doesn’t know where to go, but he feels himself longing for home. So he goes to the studio but it doesn’t feel like home anymore. Without the other guys there, making noise, or staying quiet, or laughing and joking or making their music, it doesn’t feel like the home Luke had considered it before - it just feels like a room, a draughty old garage with shattered memories and newfound loneliness. But he’s still aching to go home, he just doesn’t know where that is anymore. He walks, and he keeps walking, trying to find somewhere that feels accepting and welcome but nowhere fits. He doesn’t even really know where his feet are taking him. Eventually he stops walking and he looks at where he is, and he sees that he has stopped outside his house, at the end of the driveway. Through the window he can see Emily knitting and he’s reminded of Bobby, and he sees Mitch doing a crossword in the paper and he’s reminded of Reggie, and he sees a Cake cooling on the counter and he’s reminded of Alex, but also he can just see Mitch and Emily. He walked himself back to his parents. He walked himself home. And he has no idea what he’s going to do or say but he walks up to the door for the first time in months and he knocks and it’s Emily who answers and for a moment they stare at each other and without a word they both move to hug one another. They’re crying, quietly, and Emily whispers into his ear, disbelievingly, “you’re home” and he realises then that yes, he is. He comes in, tells them everything that happened, and from then on they support him and help him pursue a solo career - he dedicates all his songs to his fallen family.

17. That mini Reggie quote literally made me snort with laughter. And Caleb’s response is just like to wave him away like “fine fine you can have them next week”

Exactly!! As brilliant as Cheyenne Jackson is at decadent villain songs, I’d rather get rid of those and have him turn good than defeat him and have him leave the show :(

19. Wait yeah I love that! Eventually every alliance falls apart because they can’t resist attacking each other. It’s Willie who makes his way through everyone the fastest because if he sees a moment to get his partner he will not hesitate

20. Yeah you put that so perfectly!

Ooooh exactly! Seeing as this is a totally new fandom it’s going to be exciting thi at we get to watch it grow and watch them grow with it as they get better and better and hopefully the show gets better with them (if that’s even possible, it’s already pretty perfect). And also I can’t wait to see them in more stuff! Like most of them have already been in other things but for the most part they weren’t well-known but now they are so they should be able to grow as actors because of that too which is exciting

Yeah totally there is definitely such thing as too many villains and I don’t think anyone can top Caleb anyway. And yeah, I’d so love to see Willie take over the HGC because he would make it so fun and also probably turn half of it into a skatepark

Anyone: *messes with Julie*

Luke, Flynn, Alex, Reggie, Willie, Ray, Carlos, Caleb, Nick, Carrie, Trevor, Rose’s spirit: You’d better start running.

21. No I can totally see it happening! Like Willie almost definitely got arrested when he was alive too so one day he mentions it and Alex is just reminiscently like “I remember when I spent the night in jail” and Willie is just ???????

Yeah they’re like “oh the Sunset Curve graffiti? Idk man we’ve got some pretty crazy fans out there. It definitely wasn’t us doing it because Reggie needed cheering up and crime always does the trick.”

25. Lmfao that’s brilliant. Carrie turns around with a face like thunder and Willie is immediately like “oh god I’m already dead but I think she’s gonna kill me again”. Honestly most of her talking would just be her saying “Alex is the sweetest, nicest, funniest, cutest, kindest, most thoughtful, [list of other adjectives for Alex] and I will keep him far out of your reach if you hurt him” and yeah like you said Luke and Reggie are scarier because they’re like “we will literally kill you a second time if you ever make him even a little bit sad” Meanwhile I imagine Julie just off in the corner shaking her head because she knows Willie is a sweetheart and would never hurt Alex so doesn’t need to give him the talk

Ajdbdksk you saw right through that huh 😂😂 it’s not my fault they’re perfect for each other lmaooooo

32. Yes!! I love the idea of Reggie finally getting back to his friends with the ranger. His jacket is all covered in dirt and Alex brushes it off him while saying “never wander off again, Reginald, we were worried sick, anything could have happened to you” and all this. Then the next day Alex hands over the cookies to Reggie and is like “take these to that nice park ranger, it’s the least we can do”

37. Reggie managing to do the impossible is a theme we’re making kinda and I’m loving it! He just has a knack for doing the impossible and most of the time it’s just absolutely terrifying or confusing so that means the guys just don’t trust Reggie with complicated things because he’ll do them but in the weirdest way possible (I hope that made sense but i don’t think it did 😂)

“Because they think arson is fun” lmaooo perfect. If ever Alex or Bobby or Julie finds out they have a lighter on them for any reason they get put in the Time-Out Corner and they literally act like preschoolers about it.

Reggie being the reason Luke is on fire that’s freaking hilarious omg, it’s the one time Alex didn’t realise he had a lighter and of course it ends in disaster. He’s only panicking bc he feels bad and also he’s annoyed because now Alex knows he had a lighter and he’s gonna get put in time-out

YES omg ok I really really really want a Reggie and Julie duet. I made a post about it the other day but honestly I need one right now. It can be called “the Queen’s Baby Photos”

#it’s two am but this was more important than sleep it’s fine 😂#asks #williexmercer #emily answers

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kpopmusiclyricsalbums · 5 years ago

Text

My Thoughts on JYP Entertainment

Founder/CEO: J.Y. Park - Good but problematic

I have complicated feelings about JYP as a person. I think that as a business man he is smart and knows his business. I also think he knows how to train his trainees, but as a person and creator he has done some questionable things. Mostly he is very misogynistic towards his female trainees, along with his own music lyrically.

Two examples of this is during Sixteen he told Jihyo that she was too fat...to a 17-18 year old girl. She also wasn’t what people would even considered fat. His reasoning was not a good one, it was simply a stylistic look choice of a dancer’s body that he wanted and thus a 17-18 year old girl who was probably going through puberty wasn’t the ‘right size’ for him. He also said this to another girl who was 17 on the nizi project in 2020. Only five years later, his views unchanged.

The second example is his questionable lyrics that he gives TWICE. Not only in Cheer Up which is basically telling a guy, even when I say no, keep pestering me. And Yes or Yes, basically disregarding that No isn’t an answer. If either one of those songs was sung in context of a boy group, they would have been accused of disregarding the probablemic argument that as a society of a whole, women face daily. There are other songs for example Girls Girls Girls by Got7, and I will probably go into a deeper separate post about cheer up and Yes or Yes, even other songs he has written as well, but I wanted to give examples here. (Also not trying to put down TWICE or GOT7, counting that they didn’t write the lyrics or choose the song. I’m talking about the Song writer, a man in his 40’s.)

Company as a whole: Not the worst, but not the best. (But really is any company)

As a company, to me at least, they always wanted to be seen as a creative and forward thinking company rather then looking at it for money reasons, but how they treat their groups scheduling wise, future groups, and even trainee’s it seems to be more about money then what they want you to think. It sometimes feels like a shady company that wants a sugar coat cover to hide what they do.

JYP Entertainment is always praised for their look on mental health in their company and health in general. Which is a good quality to have, but they also are just doing the bare minimum. They are not doing it proactively, instead of only doing it after it’s a huge issue to the point were it affects business.

Such as with Mina, it’s good that they didn’t force her to be on stage when she has a panic disorder, but also they let it get to the point where she couldn’t even go on stage. With how much they promote and with no rest really given to the group until it’s absolutely necessary, meaning the girls’ are constantly working, I’m surprised only one member seems to have broken.

Their trainee system: They don’t seem to care so much about talent

For their trainee’s they seem to pick nice, wholesome people who work hard. Which isn’t bad qualities at all. They also have strict rules that they have to follow, such as the dating ban, the no going to bars ban (which makes sense to me considering the burning sun scandal and so on). They don’t seem to have a diet for trainee’s, but from the views of their Founder, I think it’s probably an unspoken rule.

Compared to other companies, talent wise, they seem to focus more on dancing skills then actual singing. When they do have singing, they seem to have a more westernized singing rather than a technical one. This is kind of made apparent on the show Unnies, when Tiffany recorded with JYP. Tiffany was trained at SM Entertainment which is known for having a more technical singing education. During their recording he showed her a more breathy way. She even stated, it was more about feeling rather then technique. Which isn’t bad. Most theatre performances want to emphasis feelings rather then technique, but if you can’t hit a note, there’s a too much of a problem. Plus this doesn’t necessarily mean a good longevity career wise, because if you are using improper technique for long periods of time, it could result in vocal issues in the future.

Moving on….

On how they treat Male Groups: They last longer then the girl groups.

Current Male Groups they have:

2PM + Soloists

Day6 - Band + Soloists

JJ Project

Got7 + Soloists

Stray Kids

Jus2 (sub Unit)

3Racha (Sub Unit)

J.Y. Park (Soloist)

Former Notable Groups they had:

2AM

G.O.D.

Rain (Soloists)

So with The boy groups, they seem to have a more usual staggered comeback release date, other then Day6 which for a year, they released a single every month. From my past experience, they seem to promote Got7 over Day6 and now that Stray Kids have entered the chat, Got7 is now getting less promotions resources wise. Which makes sense in terms of business, because they are already established while Stray Kids being the new kids on the block have less of a fan base. That is normal for most companies, given that the Kpop system relies heavily on the already established fandom that they create in the first couple of years rather than a long term comeback and promotional system.

2PM is from their 2nd generation of idols, along with their counterpart 2AM. They had a similar single release date between the two like got7 does with stray kids.

I am mostly excluding G.O.D. and Rain from this conversation because they are from the very beginning, where JYP was just starting out. G.O.D. is considered a legendary 1st generation group, and Rain is considered a legend in term so of male soloists himself.

Just mainly speaking on Got7, Day6, and Stray Kids, their most active male groups currently, here is a timeline from their debut years and how many singles they each had.

2014 - got7 Debut

Got7: 4 singles, 2 Ep’s, 1 Studio

2015 - Day6 debut

Got7: 4 Singles, 2 EP’s 1 Repackaged,

Day6: 1 Single, 1 Ep

2016

Got7: 3 Singles, 2 Ep’s, 2 Studio

Day6: 1 Single, 1 EP

2017 - Stray Kids Debut

GOt7: 3 Singles, 3 Ep’s

Day6: 12 Singles, 2 Studio

Stray Kids: 1 Single

2018

Got7: 5 Singles, 1 Ep, 1 Studio,1 Repackaged

Day6: 6 Singles, 2 Ep’s, 1 Compilation, 1 Studio

Stray Kids: 3 Singles, 4 Ep’s

2019

Got7: 3 Singles, 4 Ep’s, 1 Repackaged

Day6: 2 Singles, 1 Ep, 1 Compilation, 1 Studio

Stray Kids: 5 Singles, 2 Ep’s 1 Repackaged

To note, in 2020, Stray kids have 6 singles already planned or have happened. Out of the three, Day6 seems to have the least amount of promotions all together minus one year when they released a single a month.

On how they treat Female Groups: Milk them for they got then leave them to dry Once they hit a certain age.

Current Female Groups they have:

Itzy

Twice

Former Notable Groups they had:

Miss A + Soloists

Wonder Girls + Soloists

15& + Soloists

Jeon Somi/Trainee - complicated thing

Baek A Yeon (Soloists)

They treat their female groups differently then their male counterparts. For them, they either care or they don’t. Which is a weird thing to say, but you can tell by how they promote and how many singles they have. For most JYP Groups, they seem to be more of an afterthought with recycled concepts over and over again. With Itzy is too early to tell they path that they will go with. Will it be like MissA whose single count capped out at 8, with only one member the focus of the group? Will it be like 15&, who was never actually given the chance to shine and disbanded before they were even known as a group? Or will they overwork them like Twice? Wonder Girls started off good, but once they went to US and didn't get the results that I think JYP wanted, they were fazed out, as they grew older. JYP with their girl groups, seems to not know what to do with them once they hit a certain age. Which isn’t just a JYP problem, but a KPOP problem. The only differences is, he doesn’t wait till they are close to 30. They tend to stop earlier.

Let’s look at the numbers shall we….

15& - Deserved better!

Debuted in 2012 at 15 (Both girls were 15)

1 Studio Album

5 Singles (4 of them on one album)

Disbanded after having a four year hiatus

Active only for 3 years (2012-2015)

Disbanded by at the age of 18.

Miss A - Should have focused on the group as a whole, not just one member.

Debuted in 2010 at average age of 19.5

2 Studio Albums, 2 single Albums, 3 EP’s

8 Singles...yeah just 8.

Active for 5 years (disbanded in 7 years)

Disbanded by the average age of 24.5 (2015) 26.5 (official Disbandment)

Wonder Girls - a Legend that had so much potential with their band concept!

Debuted in 2007 at the average age of 16.2

3 Studio Albums, 4 EP’s

15 Singles (with 2007 being their most releases in a year with 4)

Active for 8 years (Disbanded in 10) (In 2017 they had one goodbye song never promoted)

Disbanded by the average age of 26.8 (2017)

TWICE - Overworked for money

Debuted in 2015 at the average age of 16.8

3 Studio Albums, 2 Compilation Albums, 4 Repackaged, 9 EP’s (Still counting they haven’t disbanded yet)

23 Singles in 5 years (not counting the 1 in 2020).

They had 5 singles alone in 2017 only in korea

In 2018 they had 9 comebacks total between South Korea and Japan

Back to just 5 in 2019.

Average is 2-3 comebacks a year for girl groups for the first two years then 1 or 2 after that...TWICE’s least active year was 2016 with 2. (Not counting their debut in 2015.)

As of 2020, their average age will be 21.8.

Also on solo artists, he has no idea what to do with them really, regardless of male or female.

Overall, I think I’m more critical of JYP as a company, because they try to hide the fact that they function like a business as opposed to YG or SM in terms of big three. They want to be seen more of an artist themselves rather then a business, which I find hypocritical. I based my opinions on facts and overall feel of the company that I get from them.

In terms of music, I tend to like vocal’s more, which also is not just a kpop thing. It’s true for most music genres, which is a personal preference.

So To end on happy notes,

Groups I Like from the company:

Miss A

Wonder GIrls

Day6

Baek A Yeon

I know it’s a lot of former….

Some Songs that I like that you should check out from this company:

ITZY - Dalla Dalla

TWICE - What is Love?, Like OOH-AHH, Dance the Night Away

MISSA - Hush, Only You, I Don’t Need a Man, Bad Girl Good Girl

Wonder Girls - Tell Me, Nobody, Be My Baby, Why So lonely, Draw Me

Day6 - Congratulations, Out of My Mind, I need Somebody Lean On Me

Got7 - Just Right, Miracle, Hard Carry

Baek a Yeon - Sad Song, Shouldn’t Have, So-So Just Because

Stray Kids - Hellevator

Things to note in general:

Some of these are not just JYP issues, but also a kpop industry as a whole. I tried to point those out, when I can.

It’s well known that Male groups are a gamble in terms of profit either they make a ton of money or the loose a ton of money, while Female groups always bring you money just with a shorter life span and don’t tend to out sell male groups (With some exceptions), which is why most small time companies debut female groups in order to gain money to debut a male group.

Also this just my opinion, so these issues might not be a problem for you, maybe you even prefer dancing groups to vocal groups. Both are valid. I’m just giving another opinion.

Masterlist

#Kpop #kpop opinon #JYP #JYP Entertainment #kpop unpopular opinions #Opinions

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